What Women Really Want: Sexual Fantasies, Seduction, and Relationships | Sadia Khan PT 2

In today's episode of Impact Theory, host Tom Bilyeu delves deep into the intricate world of modern relationships, societal expectations, and personal growth with guest Sadia Khan. Together, they explore the complexities of attraction and success, shedding light on how physical allure and ambition shape romantic dynamics. Sadia shares her preferences for driven, accomplished men, linking laziness to missed opportunities, while Tom reflects on his transformative journey motivated by his commitment to his wife, Lisa. Khan's perspective on pay disparities and societal norms, particularly in places like Dubai versus the UK, provides a thought-provoking angle on cultural and economic biases. The conversation takes a candid turn as they discuss the motivational power of admiration, the impact of materialism on relationships, and the unrealistic expectations fueled by social media. This episode also navigates the often contentious waters of sexual dynamics, examining the role of mutual attraction, the evolving landscape of hypergamy, and the pitfalls of transactional relationships. Both speakers emphasize the importance of self-improvement, setting boundaries, and finding partners who respect and value genuine connections over superficial traits. SHOWNOTES Intimacy vs. delusion in age-gap relationships. Avoid pornography; it impacts erectile dysfunction negatively. Submit to someone who sees and supports you. Emotional safety, lifelong desire, shared investment. Men confuse desire for intimacy with sex. Money devalues, causing higher prices and inequality. Women perceive each other as threats, not men. Grateful but cautious due to potential offense. Truth isn't offended by reality; delusion is. CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS Range Rover: Explore the Range Rover Sport at https://landroverUSA.com https://landroverusa.com/ Miro: Bring your teams to Miro’s revolutionary Innovation Workspace and be faster from idea to outcome at https://miro.com https://miro.com/. Found Banking: Stop getting lost in countless finance apps and try Found for free at https://found.com/impact. Netsuite: Download the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning for free at https://netsuite.com/theory Shopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at https://shopify.com/impact Factor: Get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month while your subscription is active at https://factormeals.com/impacttheory50 with code impacttheory50. What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: If you want my help... STARTING a business: join me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show SCALING a business: see if you qualify here. https://tombilyeu.com/call  Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox: sign up here. https://tombilyeu.com/ If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast,Tom Bilyeu’s Mindset Playbook https://open.spotify.com/show/47VE90Cittmo6TGGFqg2xf —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you. Join me live on myTwitch stream https://impacttheory.co/4fitmnJ. I'm live daily from 6:30 to 8:30 am PT athttps://cms.megaphone.fm/organizations/0482bfe8-8502-11ed-af5d-3bdc320068d7/podcasts/0a41f61a-9ddf-11ed-9eb7-dbb3a40775f5/episodes/8ac68366-8a85-11ef-bb65-abca3ffdcf54/www.twitch.tv/tombilyeuwww.twitch.tv/tombilyeu https://impacttheory.co/4fitmnJ LISTEN TO IMPACT THEORY AD FREE + BONUS EPISODES on APPLE PODCASTS:apple.co/impacttheory http://apple.co/impacttheory FOLLOW TOM: Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok:https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter:https://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tom Bilyeu?

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• 0:45Tom Bilyeu?

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• 1:14Speaker 01

  The reality is, women were designed. One of the reasons why women can move on quickly from heartbreak and relationships and go from one man to another is in evolutionary times, if they lost their partner to war or to predators or whatever it is, they'd have to find another one. Even if they shared him with another bunch of women, they would have to do that. Otherwise, they die. So we have these instincts in us that we can't always explain. Now, a woman's instinct is always to be somewhat looked after. It doesn't even have to be financial, but just knowing that a man looks after, that could mean, did you get home safe? Was work okay? Did you get on your flight okay? Just checking in. Women really value that, yeah? That checking in, whether it's financial investment or emotional investment, they need it in order to feel safe.

• 1:57Speaker 01

  For a man, the nurturing is really important for him. That nurture is their way of understanding you appreciate them. When you nurture them, they take it to mean you love and appreciate me. When you don't nurture them, they take it to mean that I'm an ATM here and no one cares about me. So they get drastic with their responses. So I would say that the emotional and financial investment is what women generally like to look for, and the appreciation and nurture is what men tend to look for.

• 2:25Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so a lot of women are having a seizure over that right now. Let me ask, should a woman submit to a man's leadership?

• 2:33Speaker 01

  I think that when you meet a man who is so is such a safe bet and so secure, submission is a natural consequence. Now, if you refuse to do that because you don't see, like, it just goes against everything, the narrative you've been taught, you're depriving yourself of a really beautiful relationship. I'm not saying submit to every man, but a good man who cares about your well-being, you'd be a fool not to submit to him. You'd be a fool to argue with him. You'd be missing out on a great connection, simply because you want to maintain your independence, but independence is overrated.

• 3:06Tom Bilyeu?

  Give me details on what it means to submit.

• 3:11Tom Bilyeu?

  Can a woman be a fully actualized person, completely her own woman, driven, boss babe, and still submit to somebody's leadership? Or does that mentality break the potential relationship?

• 3:26Speaker 01

  It's a little bit harder, I would say that. It's a little bit harder because you get so used to your own authority when you are independent. What I would say is delegation. You might want to have a really great career outside and be your own boss, but at home, there's certain decisions that you allow him to lead on. And you allow him to lead on because you trust his leadership. And you don't, giving him that authority is because he's earned it through trust, love, and leadership. You know, you can trust his authority. You don't need to have a say in every single thing in life. Sometimes you should just relax. And if you are that boss babe, don't you want some areas of your life where you don't have to think and somebody else can just lead? It's good for you. It's recharging your batteries.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  So I would say that if you are really successful, find areas where you don't have to think. It might be when he plans a holiday, when he chooses where to live or something like that. Instead of fighting that, embrace that as a way of your off period. You don't have to think. You can relax and see it as in a positive rather than negative.

• 4:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so how does how does a modern woman who is very driven, very sharp? She is working, she realizes, hey, I'm really good at this decision-making thing.

• 4:40Tom Bilyeu?

  Why would she come home and submit to somebody else's leadership? Why not just maintain the leadership role?

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Because she shouldn't be with somebody unless she, if she's really astute at decision making, she would have chosen a partner that she can delegate decisions to. If you're really good at decision making as a woman and you're really successful and you really know your shit, you don't be with a man that doesn't. That suggests that there's a hole in your self-esteem if you've chosen a man that you don't truly see as effective decision maker as yourself. So if you are all of those things, then your partner selection should have been also great. So great that there are parts that you can just delegate and then allow him to lead on.

• 5:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, are you saying that women are hardwired? Because we both have the North Star of human flourishing.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:30Tom Bilyeu?

  So are you saying that women will flourish more?

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:34Tom Bilyeu?

  If they get, no matter how powerful they are, if they get with a man that is, they are the right person to lead?

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:42Tom Bilyeu?

  In the family life? I'm not sure where you draw that line.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  Well, the thing is, if you, if you really want to flourish, choose a man that you can, who can put blindfolds on you and you trust where he's going. Because essentially, there's gonna come a time, either through kids or through age, where you tire yourself out from being that boss babe because you're not designed for it. We're not always designed for it. It's beautiful, it's engaging.

• 6:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Not always designed for it or not designed for it?

• 6:07Speaker 01

  I think we're not fully, I think we're not, I think there's a time where we are designed for it, when we're young and we have the energy or when we've got potential. But at some stage in our life, we get to the point where we do, we retire earlier. And it's, again, it's evolutionary. We're not actually designed to be so driven all the time, all day, every day. We're actually designed to be looked after and kept safe. So as much as you might have all this energy now, at least choose somebody who, when you slow down and you take your foot off the pedal, he could take the steering wheel. And if you haven't chosen that, you've effectively adopted a son that you didn't choose.

• 6:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting. Okay, so let's keep going down this road. So I hear you saying that this is really just an energy question.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Is it an energy question? Or is it a hardwiring question in that a woman who, and for the conversation, we will assume the man is worthy.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:07Tom Bilyeu?

  You see him as an incredible person. So it's not like you're submitting to a bozo. So you found a guy, he's a worthy leader.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:17Tom Bilyeu?

  It's a word.

• 7:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Are you saying that? No, the only time you need to submit is when you you get tired, you know, go do your thing. And then at some point later down the road, submit just because you get tired of doing it. Or are you saying that this is really the result of evolution? And evolution has left women in a psychological position where they will actually be happier.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:41Tom Bilyeu?

  If they submit to a worthy man's leadership.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's the latter. I think you would genuinely be happier and you reserve more energy and fuel. If you submit to a man who's worthy of submission from early. Rather than, you know, one day burning out and then thinking, now I want a man to save me. Because I'm so exhausted and tired. And I meet girls when they turn thirty three onwards. They're just so tired of doing everything themselves. And they'll say to me, I am just tired of even carrying my grocery bags from the car into the house. I'm so tired of that. I know it's a mall. But I just, I'm so tired of it. Whereas when, if you pick somebody and you delegate and you submit as you're going along. What will happen is you have more energy throughout life. They give you that. That's what a man should be. He shouldn't be a burden.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  He should be somebody that you look forward to submitting to because you trust the process, you trust their vision. And if you haven't found that, then you're going to suffer.

• 8:35Tom Bilyeu?

  So why would it be that evolution would leave women in a situation where they don't want to have to lead all the time? They actually want to outsource a lot of, a lot of the decision making to a man.

• 8:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Why would that be? What is the reward? Has evolution given them a reward?

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Well, but children, children. What happens is, and that's why baby brain is a real thing. Women that will say, I've got baby brain. What they mean is, once they become a mother, their brain is absorbed by becoming a mother. They literally start seeing their life through the lens of their baby. So they'll walk into a room and be able to spot the danger and say, that's dangerous. So they stop being able to think about themselves and they stop being able to think outside of the lens of a baby. So if they don't have a man that they can rely on, they not only have to look after the baby 24/7, but then they have to worry about him and they just get overwhelmed. Whereas when you have that secure man and you've submitted, that you can submit to, when you go into baby zone, it doesn't matter, the ship is still sailing. He's got everything else covered.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  But when you don't, you then have to put your feet on both pedals and you're gonna be overwhelmed. So because we're designed to be mothers, we're designed to have somebody that we can submit to when we become preoccupied with the child.

• 9:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so in a modern context, when women can push that off, off, off, off, off, off, why not? Why submit if you never plan to have kids?

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Because you still run out of energy at some stage. At some stage in our life, we don't have this, we don't produce the same endorphins and stuff at some stage or another. And also, what joy is there from being completely independent? Isn't life more beautiful when you share it and depend on one another? We're designed to be in tribes.

• 10:21Tom Bilyeu?

  I want to stay, I want to stay close to this idea of submitting to leadership.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:25Tom Bilyeu?

  So, for a, well, so let me ask a slightly different question. Then would the optimal life strategy for a woman be to

• 10:36Tom Bilyeu?

  be boss babe mode until, call it roughly 30 to 35? And then, so be with a guy that does what you say during those years? And then, no, there's gonna be a natural break somewhere in there. And, or maybe I just had a series of relationships and now at 30 to 35, I'm gonna settle down. I'm gonna find a man that is worthy of submitting to and, and, and I'm really, submitting probably is a word I don't like. I'm translating from them. I don't like that word, but I'm gonna be able to outsource some of the decision making so I can focus on my kids.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  I think a lot of women do do that, where they be with a man that they can control and then switch it up for a man that they want to take control from. I think the worst thing you can do is be with a man that you can control.

• 11:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Even before you have a baby?

• 11:21Speaker 01

  Even before you have a baby, because it gets you into the habit of seeing men as a nuisance rather than an addition to your life. When you have a man that you can control, what happens is you end up raising him. Yeah, he activates your maternal instinct rather than your sexual instinct. So you end up having to raise him, having to check if he's there and so on and so forth. He becomes a burden to your life and therefore you start to glorify singlehood. Whereas when you are with a man that you don't control and he actually helps control you, you see the beauty in a relationship. So I think when I meet women who are with men that they control, especially in marriages, they become disrespectful to him. They speak to him badly, they become a woman they don't like.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Whereas when they're with a man that takes leadership, they actually remain respectful. They remain kind, they remain in awe of their partner for a long time. So I don't recommend ever being with a man that you can control. You become a woman that you don't like, unfortunately.

• 12:19Tom Bilyeu?

  Very interesting. Okay, so if being with a man that you can control activates your mother instincts, what activates a woman's sexual instincts?

• 12:29Speaker 01

  Being with a man that removes her fears. And what I mean by that is physical fears, like you're scared of other people, whatever, if that exists, financial fears, emotional fears. When you're with a man that removes fears and replaces it with safety and connection and, you know, mutual respect, then what happens is it activates your sexual desires. You can only, like your mom says, you can only orgasm when you trust. So when he takes away your fears, you can develop trust.

• 12:56Tom Bilyeu?

  You might wrangle this into fears, but I, I believe very strongly that there's one more piece of the equation if you really want to activate a woman sexually.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:07Tom Bilyeu?

  And that is you have to make her feel beautiful.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree. I really agree. I genuinely think that a lot of women, when they deny men sex, it's really because they haven't felt beautiful in so long. So they think. That if you don't find me beautiful, what is the point? Women, again, I know I keep using the word narcissistic when it comes to women, but our sexual experience is narcissistic. How much we enjoy it is entirely based with how you make us feel, how beautiful and loved you make us feel. And this is one of the reasons why I know I keep going back to pornography. I encourage men never to watch pornography when they're growing up, when they're young, because what happens is they develop a dysfunction, erectile dysfunction. And when a remote woman doesn't feel attractive, she can never desire you again. If a man can't keep his erection in the first couple of times, if they haven't established safety and they haven't got their loving relationship,

• 13:54Speaker 01

  but first couple of times he can't keep an erection, that woman cannot sexually desire you again, because you make her feel so ugly in that moment, even though it's got nothing to do with you. Even though it might have nothing to do, the man's inability to perform may have nothing to do with me. But women take it so personal, so personal, and they'll never desire him again, ever. Whereas another man who makes her feel like a goddess, she will desire him again and again. So it's in your best interest to not worry about what move or what angle or whatever, just make, stroke her ego in that moment, honestly.

• 14:32Tom Bilyeu?

  Man, mic drop on that. All right, that is, that's very interesting. There's no universe in which you don't get hate from women on some of this stuff.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:41Tom Bilyeu?

  What do they say? And with love in your heart? Because of course, I, what do they say? And then with love in your heart, what do you say back to them?

• 14:53Speaker 01

  I struggle to find the love in my heart a lot of the times, if I'm very honest. But what I would say is usually it goes straight to appearance. Appearance is usually the first go-to. And what

• 15:04Tom Bilyeu?

  So they don't even attack your argument?

• 15:05Speaker 01

  No, it's quicker and easier to attack my appearance. They'll call me ugly, they'll say that it's all makeup. And if they don't want to say that, they'll say it's all surgery and all this nonsense. So they're usually go to appearance. Then if they don't want to sound too bitter, because going for someone's appearance is really, it sounds a bit too obvious, then they might go for your qualifications and they might say, oh, but you know, psychology is a shit degree anyway and it's not proper. It's not this, it's not that. So they'll go for that. And then final and kind of base is they'll go for my um my chastity. So they'll say, I bet she's a slut. I bet she's an escort. So it usually goes in that order. So they either attack you physically or academically, or they attack you sexually. So in those, usually in that order.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting. So they're not, because what I was hoping, they were gonna give a counter argument.

• 15:56Speaker 01

  It's very rare that I find that. It's very rare that I'll find a woman that will actually argue against what I'm saying. They'll make it completely personalized. And this is something I wasn't prepared for when you go on social media. When you go on social media as like maybe an influencer or somebody who's promoting makeup and beauty and stuff, you're very prepared for your appearance to be judged because you went on it for that. I had zero idea that that would be the focus. So what happens usually when I say a message that they don't agree with, it goes straight to my appearance. It goes, it bypasses the message and goes straight to my appearance or my sexuality or something along those lines and to kind of lower my status as a woman.

• 16:39Tom Bilyeu?

  Let's take a short pause, but stick around. We've got more powerful insights with Sadia Khan coming right up. Luxury brands are not charging you more for better cashmere. You're paying for the storefront, the ad budget, the name on the tag, but Quince cuts all of that out. They work directly with ethical factories. They skip the middlemen and sell 100% Mongolian cashmere, starting at just 60 bucks. 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Now, I gave one of these as a gift last year. It was a big hit and gifting is really the test of a brand. You might tolerate a lot of stuff in your own closet that you would never give to somebody else. I've got their joggers and a couple of their tees as well, and I can tell you their whole line is high quality.

• 17:24Tom Bilyeu?

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• 18:05Tom Bilyeu?

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• 18:51Tom Bilyeu?

  That's Q U O dot com slash impact.

• 18:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Thanks for sticking with us and now let's get back to the conversation with Sadiya Khan. I'm gonna try to channel what I think would be

• 19:05Speaker 01

  A more effective argument.

• 19:06Tom Bilyeu?

  Somebody that's really going to address the idea instead of the

• 19:11Speaker 01

  The messenger.

• 19:11Tom Bilyeu?

  Ad hominem attack of just trying to make out like you're a bad person.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:15Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so if I were talking to my daughter, I have to step outside of my own belief system for a second. So I'm gonna say what I think, I'm gonna steel man the argument and then we can get into what I actually believe. So I want my, I want to make sure that my daughter Can fully embrace autonomy. That she learns to think for herself. That she doesn't turn to anybody, that she realizes we don't live on the savanna anymore. That, yes, there are going to be some evolutionary winds at your back. But you don't need to be a slave to your instincts. And I want you to become whoever you want to become. And you can become anybody. There are women that have become astronauts. There are women that have become rock stars.

• 20:00Tom Bilyeu?

  There are women that have become prime ministers and presidents and literal soldiers. There is nothing you can't do. And you are as smart as a man. The intelligence distribution is such that. I mean, I, I know the literal intelligence distribution is such that there are more men at the extremes. So you have more brilliant men, but there are more moronic men. So you're going to be smarter than a lot, a lot of men. And so like really push yourself. If you want to be a mathematician, be a mathematician. If you want to go into particle physics, go into particle physics. And you'll find somebody that you can love and you'll find somebody that loves you.

• 20:42Tom Bilyeu?

  And if, if they want to stay at home and take care of the kids, that is absolutely fine. And. Yeah, just the, the greatest joy in life is being who you really are.

• 20:55Speaker 01

  I, I would say that, but I just think genuinely speaking, I think. Worst case scenario, you want to be who you are, but at least pick someone that if you needed to submit to, you could. Even if you never need to, you might never need to pull on that darling. You might forever be.

• 21:10Tom Bilyeu?

  And he's going to pull you, honey, in, I'm speaking to my daughter, not calling you honey. I want to make that very clear. My, my young darling, that is, uh, he's gonna, he may steal your dream. And you'll end up supporting his dream. And it's better to find somebody that supports you.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah, no, I do agree because the thing is I wouldn't be able to do what I do if I didn't have that. And so I definitely agree that having somebody, but here's the thing, I wouldn't uh like uh uh what I mean by having someone you could submit to. I wouldn't submit to a man that's suppressing my dreams and suppressing my potential because he obviously doesn't know me and doesn't know my uniqueness or or appreciates it. So I choose somebody I would personally submit to. When people hear the word submit, they think of a tyrannical leader telling you what you can and can't do. What I mean by that is you choose somebody who you're so aligned to you and so somebody you're so respecting, you respect each other that if you needed to blind blindfold yourself, you would trust him with where to go.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  And if you don't find that, why would you submit? Of course not. But when I say submit, I don't just mean pick a man and listen to him. I mean, have a man that genuinely sees who you are, understands what's best for you, and therefore will guide you in the right direction. And if you need him to take the wheel, he will. That's usually what I mean by that.

• 22:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, okay. So now I'll see if I can um articulate my point in a way. So normally I would be inflammatory right now because I find it so fun to just be blunt.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 22:46Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, okay, remember that I'm married to a woman that I respect.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 22:51Tom Bilyeu?

  An incredible amount.

• 22:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:53Tom Bilyeu?

  But my advice to women is, I believe there is enough evolutionary pressure at your back.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 23:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, and enough evolutionary pressure at men's backs.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 23:06Tom Bilyeu?

  That for a husband and wife to be a team against the world and for you both to accomplish what you want to accomplish, the following dynamic will work best, given that fifty percent of you is unchangeable.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 23:19Tom Bilyeu?

  And that is, I think, hypergamy, which is the female tendency to date across or up.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 23:25Tom Bilyeu?

  Is is a very real thing and that women are very just evolutionarily, you have an algorithm in your mind that will make you very comfortable with a man that that is equal to you in all things or above you. But you will not be satisfied in a relationship where the man is below you.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:44Tom Bilyeu?

  And I think that

• 23:49Tom Bilyeu?

  Men will be happiest because I actually don't know what I think about women. I think, I don't yet know, and maybe as I say this out loud, I'll have an opinion come to my mind. Men, I think, will be at their best in a relationship if they feel powerful.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:05Tom Bilyeu?

  And they're not going to feel powerful if you're better than them at a lot of traditionally masculine things. Leadership being the easiest one to peg to.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  They actually produce more cortisol in relationships with women that earn more than them or take more dominance. So they literally experience more stress biologically and biochemically, which actually decreases their testosterone. So they have less sexual desire and more stress when they're around a woman who's more successful than them. Isn't that weird?

• 24:31Tom Bilyeu?

  It is not weird at all to me. It's fascinating, but that rings so true.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:35Tom Bilyeu?

  And there's a great quote, of course, said by a man, but everything is about sex. Except sex, that's about power. And the fascinating thing about when you were talking about a woman will not want to be with you if in those critical early moments you don't get an erection because she internalizes that as you're not attracted to me. And I remember hearing once that women don't like photos of a flaccid penis, but that while they, of course, do not, everybody listening, they do not want you to send them dick pics of an erection penis. But if they have to encounter a penis, they are far more interested in one that's erect. And so.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  That's so funny, yeah.

• 25:14Tom Bilyeu?

  From a sexual vantage point, because it means you find me desirable.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 25:18Tom Bilyeu?

  So flip that now, and for the guy, if he's not getting an erection, he doesn't feel powerful. Of this, I assure you. And something is going wrong where his, he's in his own head, as he would probably say.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  And is there some element of it to do with the woman?

• 25:38Tom Bilyeu?

  It could, but there could be a thousand, I've said this before on camera, I will say it again. Uh, the first times, probably not the only time, but I will admit I am blessed because I stay in shape. My wife is very attractive. There are precious few times where I have a hard time maintaining an erection. But it has happened. The first time it happened was so funny that I, it wasn't funny at the time.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:59Tom Bilyeu?

  But in the retailing is funny. So, uh, poor at the time, living in an apartment with thin walls. And the guy above us, we were having this really hot, steamy moment, like in a random part of the house and apartment. And we were going at it, going very well. And the guy upstairs sounds like he's dying of emphysema. I mean, he is just hacking up a lung and he's just coughing and it's that wet, gross. And so I'm just slowly losing, there was no music, there was not, oh God, it was so horrible. And so that had nothing to do with my wife.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  That got, makes sense.

• 26:36Tom Bilyeu?

  I didn't feel powerful. I'm in my own head. He sounds like he's dying. It's just really fucking gross. So yeah, I was just like, oh God. And so once you're in that zone, now it had nothing to do with her, but

• 26:50Tom Bilyeu?

  that is when you sort of break that spell and you're not feeling confident, you're not feeling sexy, you're not feeling powerful. Then it, you're in real trouble. Um, so that is, there, there can be a whole host of reasons why you end up in trouble with that. So anyway, getting back to the initial thing. I think that if, if for the, the men and women to work together, I don't necessarily know that the woman needs to submit, but the guy needs to lead.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:19Tom Bilyeu?

  And so, but I, I have a real strong belief in life. Never ask someone to slow down so you can lead.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:28Tom Bilyeu?

  Which means the guy has actually got to be the right person to lead.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's it.

• 27:32Tom Bilyeu?

  And so, and this is what I hold myself accountable into my marriage. My wife is fucking amazing. She's the best business partner I've ever had. She's unbelievable. She has an incredible business mind, which I think took us both by surprise. We were like, whoa, you're really good at this. And so that's been amazing. But it also made me realize, yo, I've got to step up my game.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Because I've got to outperform.

• 27:55Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 27:55Tom Bilyeu?

  And because I want to be

• 27:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:57Tom Bilyeu?

  the right person to lead. Now, hey, everybody, public service announcement. Leadership is about knowing when to follow.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:06Tom Bilyeu?

  And so there are times where my wife is just better at that kind of decision making. And so I'll be like, you're better at this than I am. So saying that you're the quote unquote leader

• 28:16Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 28:16Tom Bilyeu?

  does not mean that you're an idiot and you don't know when to listen to the other person.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 28:20Tom Bilyeu?

  And so a good leader also knows when to follow. But that that really does not mean that we lead equal percentage of the time. And I would say this in front of my wife, I would give her every opportunity to say that I'm I'm not being honest. Trust me, she agrees. And so my wife, the thing she's always said is I want to be as powerful as humanly possible.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 28:41Tom Bilyeu?

  And I want you to be so powerful that I can be small in your arms.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 28:45Tom Bilyeu?

  And I was like, homie, you get me. Like, that's that's the juice. Because if if you couldn't authentically

• 28:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:54Tom Bilyeu?

  make me feel like that. And if I didn't authentically make you feel like that, this wouldn't work. And so this is where I have empathy for the red pill community. All of this shit is complicated.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:04Tom Bilyeu?

  It is very hard.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  I think, you know, when you shoot above your range, when it comes to a woman, either you're choosing somebody physically out of your league or um, you know, intellectually out of your league, you always suffer. You as a man, and I know that they they they kind of think, no, no, it's okay to be with a woman that's ten times more beautiful than you, or it's okay to be with a woman who's more successful, whatever, you can fix it. Unfortunately, what will happen is she will use what she has above you to start losing respect for you sometimes. So it's always, if you, like you said, if you have to slow, if you have to get some people to slow down for you to lead, it's a recipe for disaster. So it's always better to just shoot within your range. So find a woman that you are naturally able to lead, rather than picking whoever you want and forcing her to follow your leadership. It won't work that way.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Just pick within your range.

• 29:52Tom Bilyeu?

  What I love about the way that you talk about this is it is hyper practical.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:56Tom Bilyeu?

  And that is very much what I want for people. So I'm not saying it's good or bad, that it is this way, but it is this way.

• 30:03Speaker 01

  It is this way. If you're gonna choose a woman that's twenty times prettier than you are handsome, unfortunately, she'll feel irreplaceable and she might just start disrespecting you. Whereas when you pick somebody on the same level as you, what will happen is you both feel irreplaceable to each other because you match each other. So I meet so many men that are being abused by women and they're staying there because she's so beautiful. But she's abusing him because she wants to know is he's not going anywhere.

• 30:27Tom Bilyeu?

  He also does not respect himself, which is why he tolerates that.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so that's why I just think shoot within your range. And the problem with today's world is people are losing sight of what their range is, whether that's financial or physical.

• 30:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting, why?

• 30:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, because of the materialistic or the kind of physical attributes of men and women are being highlighted on social media. So we think-

• 30:51Tom Bilyeu?

  How does it make them lose sight of their own range though?

• 30:52Speaker 01

  Because they think it's accessible, it's far more accessible than it is.

• 30:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Just because they see it?

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Because they see it. When we see something, we assume it's somewhat within our range. So men are seeing beautiful women all day, every day, and they're thinking it's more accessible. And when they're not getting it, they're thinking, oh, okay, I just need to make more money. But if you have to rely on something external to access that, that means it's not actually for you. It's not actually joined for you. Yeah?

• 31:17Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't know about that.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  Do you think so? I think if I had to, you know, get a few surgeries to get the right guy for me, we're not right for each other. And similarly, if a man had to make a couple of thousands, a couple of more million to access me, he himself is not right for me.

• 31:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes. So, uh, do I mean yes? Here, what you're saying is very complex in that if I needed to, if I really wanted you and you would have nothing to do with me and I go make a couple more million and I come back and now you want me?

• 31:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:49Tom Bilyeu?

  Bad news bears. Avoid, avoid, avoid. But if you go make a couple million, different women will now be in your league.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:58Tom Bilyeu?

  That's just real. And ladies, this is not me encouraging you to get plastic surgery. In fact, I've talked to my wife. My wife used to be insecure about her nose, which she has talked openly about. I love that fucking nose.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  Aww.

• 32:11Tom Bilyeu?

  So, um- I did not want her, I would never have wanted her to get surgery.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 32:17Tom Bilyeu?

  It's not like she was contemplating it or anything, but when she was a kid, she did. And when she brought that up to me, I was like, oh my God, I love your nose.

• 32:25Tom Bilyeu?

  But if she had gotten a nose job when she was a kid, more guys probably would have been attracted to her.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 32:32Tom Bilyeu?

  So it's like, that's real.

• 32:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I get it, but I also think that you're compatible, it has to be in line with your actual self-esteem, not your extrinsic value. So I do think that, yes, let's say, for example, I get a bunch of surgery and stuff like that. Sadia is still Sadia. She has a level of confidence and self-esteem that is pretty much stable. Now, I might end up, let's say I get loads of surgery and I end up being with, I don't know, Chris Brown. The reality is the real me is incompatible with him. And I won't know how to navigate that kind of man. I'll feel insecure in his presence. I'll feel like every woman is my competition because the next girl with more surgery can attract him. I won't feel like I attracted him. I felt like something external attracted him, which is easily replaceable.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Similarly, if you have to make a couple of million to get hold of that Pamela Anderson kind of woman, unfortunately, what that would mean is you become replaceable. All it takes is somebody else with that money. The real you and the real person that you attract will eventually become irreplaceable if you use internal ingredients to attract a partner. If you have let yourself go, I wouldn't say it's just men or women, if you let yourself go completely, your partner might still love you, but they do not desire you. The desire decreases if you're totally different to the person they signed up for. Yes, I know there should be unconditional love, but there's not unconditional desire. Desire is something that is more visual based, so you owe it to each other to remain somewhat in the ballpark of what you were when you met and remain somewhat attracted to each other, because there's just too many alternatives to that now.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  It's just guarding your own marriage is to place a guard. Where women get it wrong is that they just expect, he should just be, desire me and he should just love me and he should just, I know he should, but he just won't. You've got to remain somewhat in the same physical capabilities as you were when you first met for him to remain satisfied. Some might stay loyal, but they won't necessarily be satisfied.

• 34:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Hold tight, we're going to take a quick break.

• 34:24Tom Bilyeu?

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• 35:57Tom Bilyeu?

  All right, let's pick up where we left off. I think where people put their shoulds, they need to be very careful. Because he should just be into me, now you're setting yourself up for disaster.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. But do you think men should also just realize that sometimes you can't maintain that level of physicality for the rest of your life? Or is it something that they can't always adapt to?

• 36:15Tom Bilyeu?

  No, I think, dude, look, message to young men.

• 36:20Tom Bilyeu?

  For your own emotional well being.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 36:23Tom Bilyeu?

  When you get with a woman and you decide this is you're gonna make a shot at forever.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:29Tom Bilyeu?

  You want to make sure that that person feels safe.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:33Tom Bilyeu?

  And the safe isn't just physically safe, the safe is emotionally safe.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 36:38Tom Bilyeu?

  And so when Lisa was twenty two, I was like, I want you to hear me right now.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 36:44Tom Bilyeu?

  You are beautiful.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 36:47Tom Bilyeu?

  You're young, you're gorgeous, you're in great shape, you have an amazing body, beautiful face, but you won't forever.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 36:56Tom Bilyeu?

  And I'm still going to love you.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 36:58Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm still gonna desire you, and I want you to understand why I'm going to desire you at that age.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 37:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Because we're going to spend the rest of our lives investing in each other, being there for each other, um, sharing sexuality, keeping this as hot as we can, like doing all these things so that there's a playfulness, there's a bonding to it, there's a celebration of that right now we have youthful skin and we look great and you know, all that stuff, but life moves in phases.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:30Tom Bilyeu?

  And this is a temporary phase.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:32Tom Bilyeu?

  And I wanna take advantage of it while we have it, but I don't want us to ever be surprised by how we will change.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:41Tom Bilyeu?

  And so making those investments early on of both telling her you're beautiful now, I'm extremely attracted to you now, and in the future, I'm gonna be just as attracted to you.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  But what could you do that would make would could potentially make you less attracted to her? Because the problem is when men don't vocalize when they've lost attraction and then they just have a slow resentment towards their partner because they're not satisfied.

• 38:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Silence.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, so.

• 38:06Tom Bilyeu?

  So there have been times where both of us have not been in peak physical condition. And look, I used to walk around with six pack abs. I'm now more like a two-ish.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  Still, still very impressive.

• 38:19Tom Bilyeu?

  Still in reasonable shape, like I'm no big deal.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:21Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, but it's not like Lisa's like, hey, what the fuck? She knows that I'm capable of being in better shape, but there's a band in which she still finds me attractive.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  And also the band is like, you're not become a physically lazy person. I think it's more the laziness that finds it that she might find unattractive. But you're still in good shape. It's just maybe we peak and trough at different stages, but she hasn't seen you turn into a gluttonous person that she can no longer recognize. So, but is there anything she could do that would make her non-attractive to you?

• 38:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Physically or?

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Both.

• 38:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, so emotionally, yes, that that would be very easy. If she stopped appreciating me, became hostile, belligerent. If she ever used my insecurities against me in a weaponized way, all of that, that's ugly to me.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, so that would be very problematic. Obviously infidels just not sorry to ever speak to her again. That would be that. Bye.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  It wouldn't make you lose it. It's just lost the relationship then. Yeah.

• 39:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Over. I would lose respect for her and I certainly wouldn't be attracted to her.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, physically, yeah, if she got lazy and let herself go and wasn't putting energy into her appearance. Um, if she didn't try to be sexy for me, um, that would be problematic. Like I do expect her, expect her to make an effort as she should expect me to make an effort.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  And I think that's something that men just need to be more vocal about when they're speaking to their wives because it's so much better to have that difficult conversation than to have the difficult conversation that you've been texting another girl or that you've been watching X, Y, and Z. It's just an easier conversation to have. So be brave enough to have that conversation rather than tiptoeing that conversation and waiting until the car crashes and you know, she finds something terrible out. So it's just, I don't know why. Uh, why do you think some men struggle to have those open, honest conversations? Is it because the recipient is not very receptive?

• 40:10Tom Bilyeu?

  Probably not. They don't understand it themselves.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:13Tom Bilyeu?

  They don't understand it themselves. And when I say. That if there's shakiness in your relationship, your woman is not looking at you like a hero. She doesn't make you powerful. She doesn't anticipate your needs. Uh, she's not making an effort or just any one of those things, right? There's a, a thing that's off in your relationship.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:30Tom Bilyeu?

  And somebody else gives you that attention. The way it feels is so intoxicating.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:36Tom Bilyeu?

  It's like when a woman feels like, imagine your husband makes you feel blah or even downright ugly. And then somebody else is like, whoa.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:45Tom Bilyeu?

  You are stunning. What that's gonna do, it's gonna light you up in a way.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  And it doesn't matter who it's coming from, just the, the feeling in itself is enough to attach to it. So it's just creating those moats around your relationship to prevent it rather than resenting these things. Because yes, of course, I would love it if you can just get as fat as you want and not make an effort ever again. And no worries, he'll still be loyal. But it's just not realistic. Let's just be realistic with each other. As difficult as it might be, let's just be realistic so that you protect your own marriage, just to guard your own marriage. Not to make you feel low, but to elevate the, your relationship.

• 41:17Tom Bilyeu?

  Hmm. Also, what is almost certainly happening to that person to let themselves go like that?

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:21Tom Bilyeu?

  Is all bad.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, nothing's good about that.

• 41:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Nothing's good. They're in a dark place, you're spiraling and that's where you really wanna reach out for help and work with your spouse. You can't just wallow in your insecurities and self pity.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  And sometimes people, when they like really let themselves go, it makes them more susceptible to affairs because they want a shortcut to self esteem. And usually that comes in the form of new attention and stuff. So it actually, the more you let yourself go, guys are always worried about the women that maintain themselves. But you also need to worry about the person, man or woman, that's let themselves go. They might look for cheap thrills to kind of elevate their self esteem that's been dropping over the years. So it is an important thing. Just self respect is an important thing to look for in your partner.

• 42:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Agreed.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:01Tom Bilyeu?

  I wanna talk about the future.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:03Tom Bilyeu?

  So what do you think is gonna happen? Are we going to retreat from all of the promiscuity, the dating apps and all of that? Or are AI girlfriends and sex robots gonna take over?

• 42:17Speaker 01

  Uh, it's gonna go towards, uh, sex robots and AIs. It is definitely gonna go more towards that. I remember when we first heard the word chat rooms, we thought it's just where a bunch of pedophiles connect, but. Really, over time, we now got to the point where we're all talking online, all day, every day. It's just got a different name to it. So what seems so scary and so unlike, you know, the idea of putting your relationship status online and all these things are so bizarre, but then Facebook came and then Instagram came and then everything comes. So what happens is the devil is quite patient with how much disclosure and how much you do online. So it starts very small, very small, foot in the door technique. But it will get to the point where there's definitely AI and sex robots and that will definitely become. I heard someone say something, it might have been on your channel, where he was saying that even the robots will create

• 43:02Speaker 01

  like fear of infidelity and fear of like fighting and that, just to ignite the same human emotion. But again, without the man having, or the woman having to work on any of the qualities that attracts true intimacy. So it's a shortcut society that we're created. And I think for as long as men worship vagina, then it will get more. The capitalist society will get, is never gonna forget that, that men will pay endless. And one thing I've learned, and this is where my jadedness has come from, is men are deeply transactional. Their generosity is limited to the women that they're actually touching and sleeping with. And they pay for these kind of things. And when you have a capitalist society that understands that men would rather pay for webcam girls

• 43:47Speaker 01

  than pay their mom's medical bills, or they would rather pay a random prostitute's, you know, school fees than pay their own daughter's school fees. You learn that men are so like engulfed in this area of life. The quickest way to become a billionaire is to provide men sexual access. Give them something that will give them sexual access and you'll become a billionaire overnight. Because that's what men reward and invest in, sadly. And I don't know why that is, but they would literally really, really put lots of money. And I see this regularly. You'll see men that will literally, when it comes to, say, they'll say to me, oh, I don't really talk to my dad that much. Every time he calls me, he just wants a bit of money. Or my brother, he always wants a bit of money.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  And yet they've got girls that they give so much money to, they pay the rent for, they pay the car for. And she's nothing but disrespectful, but their wallet is open for that girl. But for their own family, they're like, oh, no, I'm not gonna pay him. It's the transactional nature to their generosity. And I don't know if that's a new thing or if that's always been there. But I have noticed that their generosity is very much linked to attraction and pleasure.

• 44:55Tom Bilyeu?

  I admittedly could never be into a woman that was hostile towards me. So that never resonates when you're like, oh, they're kind of bitchy towards them. That's super weird to me. However, if you look at the way that men engage with pornography versus the way that women engage with pornography. So first of all, female pornography tends to be books. So it's written word describing the internal state, how people are feeling, all of that. A lot of buildup before the act.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:25Tom Bilyeu?

  Whereas male pornography is shots of the genitalia. So when, like, if women really develop an understanding of male sexuality, they will have a much easier time predicting men's behavior.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:38Tom Bilyeu?

  So when I hear that these guys put up with

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:41Tom Bilyeu?

  the belligerence or whatever, and they put up with needing to pay for these girls. What's really going on is gonna be something like the following. I make so much money and I'm so powerful. I can just pay this chick's rent and she'll spread her legs for me.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:56Tom Bilyeu?

  And that's kind of evil and definitely gross.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:59Tom Bilyeu?

  But it's also powerful. It's like, yep, I can just, I'm so good, like, like, it's, they're gonna think of it in weird ways like this. I'm going into this meeting with this guy and I'm gonna be able to negotiate terms over him. I'm gonna win over him. And that win is gonna come to me in the form of money. And then I can use that money to get this bimbo to do whatever I want. Now, this, I'm painting a very dark picture of a certain type of guy. But it's like, that kind of chain is, he isn't the sheep that's, oh, being abused by this poor woman. No. And the reason that he doesn't want to do it for his dad or whatever is because they're not triggering any of the, he doesn't get access to anything from them that he finds interesting. Whereas if it's a woman that he is legitimately attracted to,

• 46:43Tom Bilyeu?

  and he's effectively having a relationship with her genitals.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:47Tom Bilyeu?

  It's like, they're still a thing. Look, that, that's just an evolutionary drive.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Isn't that so wild? Like, can you see why I get jaded?

• 46:53Tom Bilyeu?

  I, I, I would advise you not to get jaded.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  I would, I'm praying.

• 46:59Tom Bilyeu?

  And the reason that I would say, don't be jaded is, look, it is.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:03Tom Bilyeu?

  This is how nature has made us. If anything, there's a humor to the fact that a billionaire, like Jeff Bezos, I love you and I would love to interview you one day. And so I hate always using this reference.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:18Tom Bilyeu?

  But. He's one of the most disciplined businessmen of all time. What he built is just unbelievable. And he still got caught out sending a dick pic to his mistress. It's like, it's just.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  And you see, even with like, you know, Elon Musk and both Johnny Depp and Elon Musk were in love with Amber Heard. And so it just shows you that like, you know, this is, there's obviously, and people would be like, oh, but she's not all that and she's not this. But because when you understand the male brain, there must be something sexual that has got them attached. And it's nothing more than that because the treatment is negative. So, yeah, they do put that as a priority. So, yeah, like I was saying, the reason why I would say sex robots and all of these things. It is a dream come true for men that don't want to work on their skills. And then here's the main thing, and the reason why sex robots will definitely replace everything else. Is men have confused their desire for intimacy with desire for sex.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  When they finally meet a sex robot, they can combine the two in their mind. They get pseudo intimacy where you actually get a bit of a connection, she'll call you and stuff. And they might get to reenact the sex. But really, what most men are truly craving is intimacy. And how you know this is how quickly they can fall in love with a woman that makes them feel loved. If they're attracted to a woman and she makes them feel loved, it takes very few minutes for them to fall in love. Because their deep need is to, they don't, they don't, look, and men particularly. As a man, you're built to be in tribes, you're built for connection. If you are lonely, it is a slow death for a man. And literally in the tribal terms, if you are lonely, you are going to die, you need a group to stay alive.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  So the loneliness, they'll do anything to avoid loneliness and they'll do anything to have sex. So when you've got, when you create an AI girlfriend, you have literally, if you were going to invest in anything that would make you a quick billionaire. Invest in those companies that are creating AI girlfriends, sadly.

• 49:13Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:14Tom Bilyeu?

  So let me ask, you said earlier that you could. Now begin to understand why the Quran says that it's okay to have a second wife.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Would you ever let your husband have an AI second wife?

• 49:25Speaker 01

  No, that would be even worse. I'd be like, what?

• 49:28Tom Bilyeu?

  That's worse.

• 49:29Speaker 01

  Way worse. I'd be like, you're a creep. Because here's the thing, it's just like, I would admire somebody's ability to have two wonderful women be in love with you. That takes work and effort. A man that can get two women to be madly in love with him and loyal to him, I can admire that as a form of masculinity. But having a man in love with me and I'm competing with essentially a glorified iPad is insane to me. Like, how am I competing with something that you have to charge on a battery? Like, I would be mortified, not because of the competition element, because he's not the man I would admire.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  A man that is so desperate for affection that he will, you take it in the form of something that is electronic, is not a man I admire. And that's what brings my main issue. And same thing, some women I meet, so many women that'll say, oh, my husband, he goes to escorts. But I don't mind that as much, because at least there's no feelings and it's just quick, dabble, this, that and the other. And for me, it's like, I understand the psychology behind escorts. It's not the, they're not actually going because of the quick ease and release. They're going because they want to avoid rejection. They want to be in environments where they don't get any feedback on their sexual performance. That's really the underlying reason. They'll say, they'll kind of mask it and say it's because it's easy and you pay them to leave. I've worked with hundreds of guys that have used escorts.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Every single one of them has an insecurity in their sexual performance. Every single one. Because men who are secure in their sexual performance can get the same service from women that they don't have to pay. They can get girls in the club that they'll sleep with that night and then she disappears and he disappears. It's not the end of the world. Men who go to escorts, every single one of them has either had issues with ejaculation, premature ejaculation, they're insecure about the size. I'll always get it out of them at some point, because they'll come to me, they're like, no, no, no, it's just quick and easy to get rid of them. Be honest with me, because you're handsome, I can see that you've got lots going for you. Why would somebody like you go to an escort? Admit I used to have a problem with ejaculation or I used to have a problem. I'm not confident about the size of my penis.

• 51:33Speaker 01

  Or some girls have told me that they didn't like it. So I just don't want that negative feedback. So I I think women, if you have a man that said, oh, I go to escorts because it's quick and easy. He's actually masking his deeper insecurity. So to go to a robot, I can't imagine the level of insecurity that must be involved there.

• 51:50Tom Bilyeu?

  That's interesting. I have a totally different take on that.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Talk to me.

• 51:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, so the TikTok algorithm is one of the most brilliant algorithms in terms of understanding what you want.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:01Tom Bilyeu?

  And giving you what you want to the point where you don't understand how much time just went by.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:06Tom Bilyeu?

  And I think that the AI running the robots will be the same. So first of all, they will get so good that they feel like a real human. But they'll just be that plus more. So they'll pass the Turing test. So when you're talking to it.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:20Tom Bilyeu?

  It's not like you're like, well, this is obviously a robot.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:23Tom Bilyeu?

  You'll be like, this is a real person and it will be a real person that will sometimes pull away just enough that you feel like you have to pursue and convince and all that stuff. And but they will, they will optimize for your. Almost certainly in the beginning, anyway, they'll optimize for engagement. So hopefully that's something positive and they don't turn into these hyper toxic relationships. Let's assume that they, that you have a dial and you can be like, I want to feel good. And so it's getting feedback about how you feel and it's giving you more or less of what you need to actually be imbalanced. And so someone like me is going to have an AI that's like adding to his life and like pushing me to be better and you know, all those things.

• 53:03Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, but it's also supportive and looks at me like a hero and all that. So, um, I am beginning to hear women leak anxiety.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:11Tom Bilyeu?

  About, okay, I've always had to compete against pornography.

• 53:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:16Tom Bilyeu?

  And the body standards and the sexual enthusiasm and all of that. And that's already exhausting.

• 53:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:22Tom Bilyeu?

  And now I'm gonna have to compete with the, the perfect girlfriend. Who's literally like probably getting biometric data off of you. So they know exactly what you're feeling and how to optimize it. Oh, I see. You want my, the, my body temperature to be like half a degree warmer.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  You're lacking oxytocin. I need to do this. It could be anything that they could check. Yeah. So then, uh, do you think that's only gonna lead to women getting more lonely and lonely women tends to become more promiscuous women?

• 53:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, I think they'll end up being a female solve. So, meaning that females will get their perfect man.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  But we don't, the thing is, I highly, I would be very surprised that women would attach to AI robots. Because here's the thing with men, sex is enough to create an attachment. For women, attachment is enough, is needed to create the sex. So I, the fact that the attachment is invariably fake, won't create the sexual desire.

• 54:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, so now you're getting on to something else. I guarantee it will be just as easy to fool a woman into generating desire unless they draw a line.

• 54:29Speaker 01

  If it's online or is it like a robot?

• 54:30Tom Bilyeu?

  No, no, it'd be standing in front of you. It, it, like, literally, in fact, okay, can I finally reveal the truth?

• 54:35Speaker 01

  You're a robot.

• 54:35Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm a robot.

• 54:38Tom Bilyeu?

  The real Tom is upstairs. So, uh.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  You scared me for a second, I thought, because that's probably what it will be like.

• 54:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I mean, look, that's maybe thirty years away.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  But do you think in a way, like, I mean, I'm a very big skeptic and I, I always, the way I talk is like the world is ending every day. But do you know, do you think there's a part, there's a room for this in our world because people are so lonely? Do you think it's a good resolution?

• 54:59Tom Bilyeu?

  No, well, oh god. Okay, so here's what I think is going to happen. Technology will ultimately make things better, but we will go through a brutal period of transition. And that period of transition, I will, fingers crossed, we don't annihilate ourselves with a nuclear weapon or with a biological weapon, but assuming we get on the other side of that, yes, it will be better. But it, the long arc of history cares not for an individual generation. So it will happily obliterate millions, hundreds of millions, whether just outright death or just a terrible life where emotionally we're all super distraught because we're a transitional generation. Uh, so I don't think we get on the other side in anything approaching a graceful manner.

• 55:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, and will they create AI children as well? Like you can have children, you know?

• 55:46Tom Bilyeu?

  Now you're on to my fetish. Secretly, I hold in my head, oh god, my audience is gonna hate me for this. I brought it up once and for, and people went pretty nuts.

• 55:56Tom Bilyeu?

  I will almost certainly at some point raise an AI child.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  You think so?

• 56:00Tom Bilyeu?

  But I'll do it over like a three year span.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:03Tom Bilyeu?

  And so it'll go from. Yeah, cuz you'll be able to dial the speed. So it'll be, uh, I only wanna spend a weekend with that as a baby. Because I do wanna feel like I earned it.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  It's literally a baby, a robot?

• 56:13Tom Bilyeu?

  I mean, I'm making all of this up. But I'm just saying, when you carry out how the technology moves. So in the beginning, it'll be like a, um, a Tamagotchi. Where it'll just be a very convincing, uh, thing that you're interacting with on a computer screen. Eventually, it will be embodied as a robot. And they'll just get better and better. But yeah, you'll be able to dial it in the version that I think will be created. Where it's like, okay, the terrible twos, I only want to last for a week. And, uh, the teenagers, oh my god, like, we're, you know, only gonna deal with that for a month.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  But then, isn't that just gonna enhance depression? Because the whole, our buffer for depression psychologically is our ability to deal with tough times. And our ability to take rejection, our ability to handle loneliness. All negative emotion has, it's our ability to thrive through it. That's going to actually act as a buffer for depression. But kind of warding ourselves away from it doesn't create the skills and tools we need for strong mental health. So how do we prevent a nation of depressed people?

• 57:12Tom Bilyeu?

  The AI will be optimized to make you the strongest, most resilient, most anxiety and depression free human on the planet. Remember, we're gonna pass through a brutal period. You and I both agree, it, it will get very bad before it gets good. And so in the early days, it's gonna be kids spending nine hours a day talking to replica on their phone. And they, you know, aren't able to get a real girlfriend in the real world. They don't have any of the advantages of it passing like a true Turing test. It'll be a nightmare.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:42Tom Bilyeu?

  But on the other side of this, you will be able to have relationships that are optimized completely to you, the most loving, best version of yourself.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  What's the intention of the people that are creating this?

• 57:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, well, I mean, now we're gonna reopen the can of worms around capitalism and all that.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, because.

• 57:57Tom Bilyeu?

  You, you can't get people to work without compensation. So that means that then money's going to be involved.

• 58:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:05Tom Bilyeu?

  And that's how you're gonna motivate people. And then if you don't allow them to garner enough capital, they won't work, which is why China started floundering and they had to bring in state-sponsored capitalism, but nonetheless, a variance of capitalism. Russia had to do the same. And so, yeah, capitalism will, once again, get involved.

• 58:23Speaker 01

  So money is the intention.

• 58:25Tom Bilyeu?

  Money is the thing that-

• 58:27Speaker 01

  But whenever the intention is money, then we have to compromise human health.

• 58:31Tom Bilyeu?

  That is false. Okay, oh god, we're gonna derail again.

• 58:35Speaker 01

  Sorry for the news.

• 58:36Tom Bilyeu?

  For me, this is fun. This will be a good test to find out what my audience thinks. Okay, so money deranges people largely because it's a fiat currency that the government says, uh, this is money, and then they can manipulate it. And they not only tax you to all hell, but they do money printing. And when they money print, money printing is the same as devaluing the money that you hold. So it's, it is another hidden tax. So when you hear, oh, they're printing money and you get excited, yay, this is amazing. The reality is that they're socializing the losses. So they're buying assets, which is why people get really mad, but they don't understand why they're getting mad because they think I got a stimmy check from the government.

• 59:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, but the way that they do that is they inject that into the financial system by buying assets. So the people that are rich, that own the assets, they benefit. And then everybody, even the poorest among us, get diluted. So their buying power goes down. So they feel like, but I got a $6,000 check. This is insane. I've never had this much money in one check ever in my life. Yes, but your money is worth less now.

• 59:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:44Tom Bilyeu?

  And so now the price of bread went up. And so that $6,000 doesn't really get you much, unless you invest it, which of course you won't. Uh, so when you derange money, now you make money deranging. Now, I'm not letting capitalism off the hook for it just creates a winner-take-all scenario. There really is that, and you get this increasing divide. And so you have to have very, um, smart policies that encourage people to pay their taxes, reinvest in their business, and- It's never going to be a an equitable system where everybody ends up with the same thing. It just doesn't work that way. That can only be imposed by force. And once you impose it by force, it just goes to hell in a handbasket. So money is not inherently compromising.

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:28Tom Bilyeu?

  But if you steal, obviously problematic. But oftentimes, a lot of the theft is coming from the government in terms of the way that they money print to get this hidden tax, so on and so forth.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  So do you recommend the AI girlfriend?

• 1:00:42Tom Bilyeu?

  That we be ruled by AI?

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:44Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't know yet.

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:00:46Tom Bilyeu?

  So this is one where I'm not willing to cede control. Yet. I may see it and go, oh, yeah, we really should. But right now, I just have a knee jerk reaction to I don't want anything to be able to tell me what to do. I have a real problem of authority.

• 1:01:03Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Okay.

• 1:01:04Tom Bilyeu?

  AI or otherwise.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  And but you're an advocate technology. You do agree as it's advancing, or you do like the advancement of technology?

• 1:01:11Tom Bilyeu?

  I like the advancement of technology. I think it's a one way street. The way that the human mind is designed, you're never going to go backwards.

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:01:17Tom Bilyeu?

  However, I do think that society will bifurcate and that some people will completely reject technology and go back to something akin to the nineties.

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't see it going back, unfortunately, but I just have, I I think the measure of any kind of, um, whenever we introduce something new in society, how we measure whether or not it's good or not, is by the remnants on people's mental health, because obviously I'm coming from a psychological perspective. And if anything is decreasing our, or increasing our depression, anxiety, loneliness, it can't be a good thing, even if it's causing people to make billions. So that's why my, it sounds bizarre considering my life is all built on technology. Uh, from an objective standpoint, I don't think it's a a healthy thing for society to get more indulged in the one thing that has caused so much destruction to people's mental health over the last decade.

• 1:02:06Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  But that's just my opinion.

• 1:02:08Tom Bilyeu?

  I think it's a very wise take, and I think that. Technology is not a utopia.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:02:16Tom Bilyeu?

  It will be a very bumpy ride.

• 1:02:18Speaker 01

  But probably, will we, will we live through it? Or is it gonna be in the next generation? We'll live through it. Okay, it's gonna be that fast?

• 1:02:25Tom Bilyeu?

  You're gonna get walloped in the next ten years. The next ten years of your life will be unrecognizable to a level that will shock you.

• 1:02:31Speaker 01

  So our husbands in the nursing homes might be having affairs with robots?

• 1:02:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, husbands in nursing homes probably won't be in nursing homes because by then we will have mastered the health things that we need to keep them going. So, yeah, if I, in thirty years, I will be in my seventies. So, assuming I keep myself in good shape.

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:51Tom Bilyeu?

  In, in thirty years, it, oof. You're probably past what's known as the singularity, where things are changing so fast, it is absolutely impossible to predict.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah, it's an impossibility.

• 1:03:03Tom Bilyeu?

  It's gonna be crazy.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  Growing up in London and in the UK where I didn't see oppression towards women, if anything, I only found hostility between women rather than between men and women. And I found that the quickest and easiest way to show that you have a fight and you're involved in making the world a better place is to claim you're a feminist and claim that you are out there to stop men oppressing women. But in my personal experience, what I kept experiencing is women oppressing other women, particularly at work. So I found, um, yeah.

• 1:03:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Why particularly at work?

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  Um, maybe it was my personal experience, but what I found working with women in, in the UK and working with British women in general is there was a level of wanting to, of being very good friends with women until you feel like they might surpass you. And particularly in a work environment. And I found that they would encourage men more than they would encourage women in a teaching environment. So if they have a male colleague, they'll kind of encourage him towards a promotion, but they wouldn't encourage women. And I remember walking into interviews and if I would see a panel of women, I would automatically know I'm not getting the job. And I would, I'd walk out, I'd walk out and just think there's no point. Whereas if I would see a man, woman, a man, I'd go, okay, I stand a chance.

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  And I'd go in with, and I always found having. A female boss was torturous. I always, every job I worked in, if I had a female boss, it was a matter of time before I felt bullied out of it. I only felt it from women. And I don't know if that's a gender thing, or if that's an appearance thing, or if that is just an age thing, because I was younger then. I don't know what the confounding variable was, but it kept me a bit suspicious of the feminist movement. Because I couldn't understand why the enemy was men when it felt like the imminent enemy was within.

• 1:04:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting. Okay, let's start teasing this idea apart. Is it possible that the anecdotal thing, experiences that you've had, aren't necessarily, they don't absolve men? So we can set aside that men may still be evil and problematic, which we will address.

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:11Tom Bilyeu?

  But.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  Well, in the research, and please feel free to Google, but I felt like I think I read a study that suggested that eighty percent of women felt like they had hostility from other women at work.

• 1:05:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Can we, yeah, let's look that up. I'm su- I've never heard that.

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  Hostility at work, yeah. And I don't know, it could just be a TED Talk that I listened to and I just absorbed it because I felt like that. But I felt like there was a lot of hostility within women rather than between the genders. And I always felt like.

• 1:05:40Tom Bilyeu?

  Is it possible you think this because you're attractive?

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  Potentially without realizing. I don't know what the world looks like when you are not a threat to any woman. I don't know what the world, if I'm being honest, and it sounds very, very conceited. But women see threats in women, and not necessarily because she's beautiful, it might just simply because she wears a bit of makeup and wears a few heels and whatever it is. So I felt like I didn't know whether it was a personal thing or whether it's just women within women. I didn't know how to understand it. But what I did know is men were never the enemy and have never been the enemy. And even, and this is why I love Lisa so much, even when I do podcasts, I tend to prefer when, aside from Lisa, because she's so well established and so secure in herself. But generally, male podcast hosts tend to be more encouraging and tends to be very proud of my progress.

• 1:06:25Speaker 01

  I don't feel the same outside of that. So it could be my personal experience, so I don't want to talk for everybody. But that's why I was so skeptical about the feminist movement.

• 1:06:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Wow, that's really interesting. Alright, let's see what we have here.

• 1:06:37Speaker 01

  Research suggests that women actually play a significant role in perpetuating the gender gap due to the concept known as female hostility. I genuinely never went for a promotion when I would know that there was females on the panel. I would never go for it. Whereas if it was men on the panel, I'd be like, let me try my luck. Let me wear something tight and try my luck.

• 1:06:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so what is feminism as a movement?

• 1:06:58Speaker 01

  From my personal perspective, I can't talk objectively. From my personal perspective, it feels like the most privileged members of female history claiming to be oppressed, which I can't see why. And throughout female history, historically, we've never had it easier. We've never had it so beneficial. We've never been so benefited. So to see these women, and I still believe that we are beneficial to men in so many ways. Like personally, I know if I got stopped by the police, and somebody like my brother got stopped by the police for the same crime, I guarantee you I would leave with a smile and a thank you and I would leave safely. So I know I'm privileged, superiorly to most men in most circumstances.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  I know I can speak to a boss in a way that probably a man couldn't. I know I could speak to a police officer in a way that other men couldn't. I feel incredibly privileged as a woman, and therefore I don't understand the movement. So it confuses me. And I don't know if it's because my skin is so light, I don't know if it's because of some element of, you know...

• 1:08:02Tom Bilyeu?

  But even if it's that, then that would be racism, not...

• 1:08:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's why I don't believe, I don't believe there is a gender issue. I still believe like my dad with an accent and brown skin would have a disadvantage against a English white woman in a job environment. I don't think he has superior chances of getting a promotion just because he's a man. I think if anything, she has it. So that's why I never understood it.

• 1:08:28Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so now let's, uh, let me try to steel man the argument on the other side.

• 1:08:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Women have only been in the workforce for whatever 50, 60 years.

• 1:08:41Tom Bilyeu?

  There's so much historical legacy of sexism. I mean, you guys had to literally throw yourself in front of horses and shit just to get the right to vote.

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:49Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, it's a real story, by the way.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:51Tom Bilyeu?

  I think she even died.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, she did die.

• 1:08:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Crazy.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  Emily something.

• 1:08:55Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, so absolute bananas that the sort of default stance was, of course, you can't vote.

• 1:09:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, and even Winston Churchill, who I think is phenomenal at first was like, yeah, women should be allowed to vote, obviously.

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  Uh, so. One thing I always say to that, when people tell me that is, uh, at a time where white women couldn't vote, they could still own black slaves.

• 1:09:16Tom Bilyeu?

  That's horrifying.

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  Let's say, for example, I'm a white woman who couldn't vote. I could still own a black man as a slave. So do men have an advantage?

• 1:09:24Tom Bilyeu?

  You could also own a black woman.

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  I could also own a black man.

• 1:09:26Tom Bilyeu?

  So that feels like a black problem, not a male female problem.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  But then does it show me that women had it bad? If it, if it really was a gender thing, wouldn't it just be men above women? But what's really going on is that there was a class system issues. So the reality is if I'm a woman and I was claiming I was so oppressed in 1920, I could still get a black man arrested and lynched for whistling at me.

• 1:09:49Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so you're saying the breakdown, the problematic breakdown is not along gender lines. There's a problematic breakdown along race lines.

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  Way deeper than that, yeah. It's way, it's probably more money than it is anything else. And the reality of things, money is the real, uh, division between people. I don't think it's gender related. There's some race to it, but I still believe that as a woman of color, if I earn a certain amount, I would have same or more privileged than a white woman who earned nothing. So I would still say it's money related, but I don't think it's gender related. I really don't think it is. It makes no sense to me that a woman would complain about not being able to vote, but she would have a monopoly over men of color at the time. So it wasn't so much gender in my mind.

• 1:10:32Tom Bilyeu?

  Hmm.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  I could be wrong.

• 1:10:33Tom Bilyeu?

  If we can remove any of the confounding variables, that would certainly make it easier. So if we just talk about the things that you hear, uh, the gender pay gap, that comes up a lot.

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:10:46Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, women being expected to be at home, women having a harder time, uh, getting promoted at work.

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:10:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Do you have any stats?

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  Well, what would make me feel like a little bit, what I would try and understand there is when I see women not getting paid as much, I have to remember, from what I see is women, once they have children, choose part-time roles more than men choose to be part-time after children. So like, it makes promotion on a more logical stance less realistic. It's just less realistic that I'm gonna pay you to do a promoted role when three days out of the week you're not there. So it doesn't seem like it's gender-related, it's circumstantial. I don't think we're victims because we're women. I think our biology and our evolutionary pressures direct us in a way that make us less proficient in certain workforces, but it's not because we are of a gender, it's

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  because of our biological pressures and our personal choices. So that's what I experienced from my work. I could be wrong, but I think the stats would suggest that women probably would choose to be part-time after kids far more than men would.

• 1:11:55Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, that, I think the data will bear that out.

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  And I also just don't think why we're creating that division. I don't understand it. I think if we looked at it historically, everybody suffered at some stage or not, yeah? And it would usually be, the people who would escape suffering tend to be the ones with money, not necessarily men, or not necessarily just white people, it would be people with money. And so that's why I try not to go down the gender road and the whole idea of feminism and stuff, even though I get so many messages and I'm very grateful for women who are like, "Oh, you're inspiring." And I'm like, "Ew, but you need to be careful because I'm not a feminist, I'm gonna offend you at some point." So they're gonna hate me. So I always try and take it with a pinch of salt because I know the moment I talk about feminism, all of that strength that they love hearing me talk about when it comes to

• 1:12:41Speaker 01

  Red Pill, goes straight to anger and resentment when I talk about feminism, which is why I almost feel like, maybe I am gender neutral, maybe I am a they/them, because I tend to be quite balanced and neutral. I try to be. But is that offensive, what I'm saying? I know it might be taken as such, but I don't mean it in an offensive way.

• 1:12:59Tom Bilyeu?

  I am not, I'm not at all offended. To me, these things are empirical questions that have... Have data that backs them up. Uh, and so looking at that um seems self evident. So uh to address one part of this, which is the gender pay gap, which Thomas Sowell has spoken very eloquently to, and he said, if you compare, it's basically women that have never had kids versus everybody else.

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:25Tom Bilyeu?

  And so women that have never had kids, if I'm not mistaken, end up outperforming.

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  I would imagine.

• 1:13:31Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, men. And that really it's a mother, you can think of it as a mother tax.

• 1:13:37Speaker 01

  I imagine.

• 1:13:38Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, I would think from an evolutionary perspective that women would feel pretty good with their choice about, I want to go home and spend time with my kids.

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:48Tom Bilyeu?

  So that one doesn't seem super surprising to me.

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:51Tom Bilyeu?

  And I always come at it from, from a just pure entrepreneur standpoint. And I'm like, I could not care less if the person is a woman.

• 1:13:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:14:00Tom Bilyeu?

  So, but if you leave, which I've never had a guy leave when he had a kid.

• 1:14:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:07Tom Bilyeu?

  But I've had women.

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Many women.

• 1:14:09Speaker 01

  Many women, me too.

• 1:14:10Tom Bilyeu?

  Because they have kids.

• 1:14:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:12Tom Bilyeu?

  And God bless them, like, go do your thing.

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  I'm very happy for them.

• 1:14:14Tom Bilyeu?

  But the irony is, I'll have women, hey, I'm, you know, I've gotten pregnant, I'm gonna be taking leave. Amazing, I'm so excited for you. And they're like, but I'm definitely coming back. And I'm always like, hey, everybody says that.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  They never come back.

• 1:14:27Tom Bilyeu?

  You're gonna wanna wait until you actually hold that kid in your arms and then make your life decisions.

• 1:14:32Speaker 01

  It's a beautiful decision to make.

• 1:14:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Thank you for your service. I'm Captain, thank you for your service, guy.

• 1:14:36Speaker 01

  You know, it's a beautiful decision to make, but the, then the agony about the gender pay gaps makes no sense. Like you, I, I, I know so many women who the moment they have a child, every, all their career doesn't mean as much to them. So when they fight about feminism and gender pay gaps and stuff like that, it feels like an empty fight. It feels like a self inflicted wound that they're trying to cover up. But what is it fighting for? Like, maybe I've just got it wrong because I've always been anti feminism, but maybe I've misunderstood it. Because I've just, my personal experience, and also I'm very biased. I have a bunch of sisters I'm not close to, so I grew up with a negativity towards women. So maybe that's what made me less sympathetic to their causes. So maybe I'm missing something.

• 1:15:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, Lisa, I think, and I don't wanna get her in trouble here, speaking on her behalf. But the way that she's always seen this is um. She is a strong, independent woman, earns her own money, does her own thing. And her take is, anything that's anti-men, I am a hundred percent opposed to.

• 1:15:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:36Tom Bilyeu?

  Just as I'm opposed to anything that's anti-women. Um, we are partners. And if, like, my whole thing is,

• 1:15:45Tom Bilyeu?

  the, whoever, the, the world is made up of men and women. Come together.

• 1:15:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Celebrate what each other is good at. We are going to, we, we have been evolutionarily shaped to be different. But we overlap far more than we are different.

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:16:02Tom Bilyeu?

  And recognizing that we each bring something to the party, and wanting to celebrate that, to me, is the only thing that makes sense. I do not see women in an adversarial sense. Um, but at the same time, going back to the idea that the brain is a prediction engine, women don't make sense to me when I think of them like a man.

• 1:16:20Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:16:20Tom Bilyeu?

  But when I learn about women and I learn how their minds work and what they're biased towards, then I can predict their behaviors.

• 1:16:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:27Tom Bilyeu?

  And women, the same with men.

• 1:16:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:29Tom Bilyeu?

  And so, the, the thing I worry about is anything that makes us adversarial, which the modern feminist movement seems very anti-men.

• 1:16:38Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:16:39Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, and then anything that says there is no difference.

• 1:16:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:43Tom Bilyeu?

  And that we're all the same, and we can be whatever we want. That's when I'm like, reality is gonna bite you in the ass. Like, this is gonna get really problematic.

• 1:16:50Speaker 01

  And I have to preface that, I haven't worked in a corporate industry. So I don't know what it's like in those environments where there's corporate, you know, where men do dominate and stuff. Um, but I do just think in my, uh, the privilege I, privileges I have from being a woman outweigh any of the, um, cons of being them. And I, and I, that might be being a particular type of woman. But it just feels like having a feminine energy definitely works in your favor when it comes to judicial system, or when it just comes to getting helping behavior and stuff. I don't really feel that, um, like disadvantaged from being a woman in any way, shape, or form.

• 1:17:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, the way that I think this breaks down in reality is men and women are different. And so people are gonna be very confused, sometimes offended. Um, guys are gonna speak in a way that women don't like. Women are gonna speak in a way that men don't like. And so there, I, I've thought a lot about this when it comes to race.

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:17:40Tom Bilyeu?

  And it's really not about any given race. It's about who's the majority.

• 1:17:46Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:17:46Tom Bilyeu?

  And certainly, who's the majority in power.

• 1:17:49Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:17:50Tom Bilyeu?

  And so, if you think about that, cuz I'm obsessed with Japanese culture.

• 1:17:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:17:54Tom Bilyeu?

  But- You could make a pretty compelling argument that the Japanese are freakishly racist in Japan. In the sense that they don't even let outsiders, like the percentage of outsiders.

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  They don't try and hide it or anything like that. And they'll take pictures of you if you're a different color and stuff like that. But here's what I, and Dubai is racist. I live in Dubai and your passport determines your pay gap and, you know, and stuff like that. So it's nothing to do with your gender. You come in with a passport, a British passport, you'll get paid more if you have a Pakistan, than a Pakistani passport.

• 1:18:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Really?

• 1:18:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, and I'm Pakistani.

• 1:18:25Tom Bilyeu?

  Wait, that's like, it's actually an official thing?

• 1:18:28Speaker 01

  It's an official thing.

• 1:18:30Tom Bilyeu?

  It's written down somewhere.

• 1:18:31Speaker 01

  It's an official thing, yeah. So we could go for the, I could be a doctor and somebody from Pakistan with the Pakistani passport could be a doctor and I'll be paid more because I have a British passport and they have a Pakistani passport.

• 1:18:41Tom Bilyeu?

  What?

• 1:18:41Speaker 01

  And I don't mean this in any offense to Dubai or anything like that, because I very much love the country to work in. But there, there is very clear divisions and it's very much like, they still get paid far more than they would in Pakistan, but it's definitely far less than I would get as a British citizen.

• 1:18:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Who is Pakistani, BS?

• 1:18:57Speaker 01

  And I'm Pakistani and I have a dual passport. So I just, you know, hand in my British passport and I get paid, you know, very considerably a lot better.

• 1:19:05Tom Bilyeu?

  That is shocking.

• 1:19:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's shocking, but here's what happens in those environments. What I don't, what I like about it is it's clear as day, you can either come or you don't, it's up to you. What I found difficult in, in the UK is that it's almost hidden or it's almost structural. So I'd rather just know where I stand and then I can either choose to be a part of it or I can leave. But when it's not there and it's almost structural, I find that harder to navigate. Because I felt like there was, there is a division in terms of like, not so much ethnicity, but values. Because I don't drink and I don't go to the pub after work and I don't go out with them and, you know, how they socialize. I'm limited in how much I can access the, you know, the in-crowd when it comes to work. So I'd rather it just be on paper.

• 1:19:50Speaker 01

  Is that wild that I?

• 1:19:52Tom Bilyeu?

  That's wild. Yeah, I would rather, oh God, this is really interesting.

• 1:19:55Speaker 01

  Would you rather?

• 1:19:56Tom Bilyeu?

  I would rather it not be on paper, because there's nothing you can do when it's on paper.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  I don't like the illusions. I, I keep it real with me.

• 1:20:03Tom Bilyeu?

  But humans are like that.

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:05Tom Bilyeu?

  So first of all, they don't, like, they don't think they're doing it. And that's the thing.

• 1:20:09Speaker 01

  They don't think, I have to say that, they don't mean to do it.

• 1:20:12Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:12Speaker 01

  It's not coming from a malicious place. They don't realize they're doing it a lot of the time.

• 1:20:16Tom Bilyeu?

  A hundred percent. And when, so for instance, when I see an all-woman company. I'm excited for them.

• 1:20:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Word, do your thing.

• 1:20:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:25Tom Bilyeu?

  But then I also think that if a guy wants to, he should be able to do an all male company.

• 1:20:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:29Tom Bilyeu?

  Because then it's like, I personally.

• 1:20:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:31Tom Bilyeu?

  Here's what I, my current thesis is, hire for culture, for sure. You wanna share values with people. And then find the smartest, hardest working people you can find, male or female.

• 1:20:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:43Tom Bilyeu?

  But, an all male company would be easier to get along. Because I can talk, I know how I can talk, I know how they're going to interpret things.

• 1:20:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you know what paternity leave looks like, and you know that they are coming back, and I completely understand that. Um, so, you know, like I said, I could be totally wrong, but because I'm somebody who's so, let's keep it real with me, just keep it real with me. I'd rather be in an environment where I know what the score is, than given the illusion of hope. That you can make it, but probably you won't.

• 1:21:10Tom Bilyeu?

  No, I definitely wouldn't like that.

• 1:21:11Speaker 01

  You would really?

• 1:21:12Tom Bilyeu?

  No, I, I really, I can't have a rule that says, like, I can't do the same.

• 1:21:17Speaker 01

  Divisive.

• 1:21:17Tom Bilyeu?

  I mean, to me, that's like nineteen sixties America, where, like, we're literally just like, fuck you, you're redlined, that's what it is.

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  It is bad, isn't it?

• 1:21:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, that's really, really gnarly. And I need to believe that even if one of the things I have to get good at is fitting in.

• 1:21:32Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:21:33Tom Bilyeu?

  Cool, like, so Japan, I've thought a lot about this. At one point, I considered, like, do I convince Lisa to move to Japan? Like, I'm into Japan in that kinda way.

• 1:21:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:41Tom Bilyeu?

  And I thought, okay, I would have to deal with societal racism. I don't, I don't wanna put that word on it, but.

• 1:21:49Speaker 01

  Is it racist, or is it just the way they, cause I don't know how to describe it.

• 1:21:53Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm much more comfortable saying school of fish, because I don't think that they have.

• 1:21:56Speaker 01

  I don't think they mean it in that way, yeah.

• 1:21:58Tom Bilyeu?

  It's just their country is their country, and they are used to seeing a sea of Japanese people, and they don't love the idea. Whatever, I get it. I come from America, where we're a melting pot, and I love that, and that's a huge part of my identity, is I think that's dope. And I'm a big believer in you, you can only get to the truth by having a lot of different perspectives, I think that's really powerful. Uh, I think you wanna share values and not share insights.

• 1:22:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, so.

• 1:22:27Tom Bilyeu?

  That I'll just call school of fish.

• 1:22:29Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:22:29Tom Bilyeu?

  What you're up against is school of fish. People tend to flock with people that look like them.

• 1:22:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:34Tom Bilyeu?

  As a proxy for people that think like them.

• 1:22:36Speaker 01

  And there's an evolutionary reason for that as well.

• 1:22:37Tom Bilyeu?

  For sure. I think honestly, all humans really care about is do you share my values?

• 1:22:44Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:22:45Tom Bilyeu?

  That's the, that's the thing that everything else is a proxy for.

• 1:22:48Speaker 01

  Color is an indicator of that.

• 1:22:49Tom Bilyeu?

  Correct.

• 1:22:50Speaker 01

  So which is why I understand it. Yeah, it's a shared thing.

• 1:22:52Tom Bilyeu?

  It's a shared thing.

• 1:22:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Now it can go super fucking wrong. Humans are weird and we have an us versus them thing and that does not. It doesn't serve us well in a modern context.

• 1:23:01Speaker 01

  No, but it makes total evolutionary sense. If somebody was a different color to you and coming into your tribe, you would know they're there to invade. They're not there to say hi to you. So it makes sense to have a level of fear or skepticism of people of different colors. It doesn't necessarily have to mean that it's coming from a negative place or that's why I understand Japanese culture. I don't feel like they mean it maliciously. They literally don't understand that.

• 1:23:24Tom Bilyeu?

  They're so lovely. I consider moving there. But at the same time, I get it. White people tend to have a hard time.

• 1:23:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:31Tom Bilyeu?

  Outsiders, they have a real problem with foreigners.

• 1:23:33Speaker 01

  Right, okay. What, what do they think you're gonna do?

• 1:23:36Tom Bilyeu?

  I have no idea.

• 1:23:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:23:37Tom Bilyeu?

  That I won't speak to. I don't know enough about it. But I know some people that grew up in America that now live there. And they're like, bro, when they had a breakdown of who got the vaccine when? It was like foreigners were like in 97th place. It was like every conceivable stack of Japanese person.

• 1:23:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:56Tom Bilyeu?

  And then the like sickest, oldest foreigner. Then they could finally get it. But it was like, you know, you're perfectly healthy 19 year old Japanese kid. A hundred percent was getting the vaccine before you.

• 1:24:07Speaker 01

  You know what? I come, there's a weirdness to it. When I'm in cultures which prioritize their own culture first, I almost just sign the imaginary contract and accept that's the way you are. Whereas when you grow up in a country which expels the idea of racism and says that everybody's equal, you almost end up looking for the inequalities more.

• 1:24:27Tom Bilyeu?

  There is something to that, but I think here's where it breaks for me. If you're born in that country, it's pretty shitty to say, well, why don't you go move to a different country? Fuck that. Like, so now that's, that's rough. And as an American, like, I dig the whole melting pot thing. So it's like, I want this to be a rad place, but for people who share my values. I won't lie. Like, I care about values.

• 1:24:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:52Tom Bilyeu?

  And so that's where I can get like, I really believe in freedom of speech.

• 1:24:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:57Tom Bilyeu?

  And so when people are like, you shouldn't have freedom of speech, then I get the heebie jeebies.

• 1:25:01Speaker 01

  And then where do you draw the line between freedom of speech and freedom to offend?

• 1:25:05Tom Bilyeu?

  I think you should be allowed to offend any fucking buddy.

• 1:25:08Speaker 01

  Okay. So it's an equal.

• 1:25:10Tom Bilyeu?

  The only thing I'll say is you shouldn't be able to incite violence.

• 1:25:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree. I agree. But I think you can offend everybody with, as long as you're looking for the pursuit of truth. I think if somebody's intention is to find truth and in that process.

• 1:25:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Trying to be funny.

• 1:25:25Speaker 01

  If you're trying to be, if it's a comedian or something, I find that funny. I can take a joke.

• 1:25:30Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so if you, do you have to be a comedian to say hurtful things?

• 1:25:34Speaker 01

  Usually with a comedian, the goal is to make people laugh rather than the goal is to offend.

• 1:25:38Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, but Dave Chappelle makes a lot of people very, very, very mad.

• 1:25:43Speaker 01

  I'm a big fan of Dave Chappelle.

• 1:25:44Tom Bilyeu?

  So am I.

• 1:25:45Speaker 01

  I'm a huge fan. And what I love about his comedy is he's not, he, he's not far from the truth in, in the jokes that he's making. He makes jokes, but they are.

• 1:25:54Tom Bilyeu?

  But what if he wasn't? Because here's what I'm protecting against. I do not want anyone to be the arbiter of whether they think he's going for truth. So I think you just have to let it be.

• 1:26:04Speaker 01

  What I would honestly say is the truth is never offended by reality. And what I mean by that is if I, like, I'm Muslim, I believe it to be true. Now, if you come up with real examples, chances are it won't knock my faith. But if I believe something that's relatively delusional, I will constantly be offended by reality. And that's what I always say is if you're offended by reality, you have to reassess your truth. Because reality shouldn't offend you. Now, when Dave Chappelle makes a few jokes, he usually takes reality and throws it in the face of people that are, he thinks are warped of reality. And I just think, genuinely speaking, if you stand on truth, it won't be offended by reality. Reality will only confirm your truth.

• 1:26:45Tom Bilyeu?

  I see people offended by the truth all the time.

• 1:26:48Speaker 01

  Then they, then they're holding on to a delusional belief.

• 1:26:51Tom Bilyeu?

  I agree with that, but who gets to decide what's delusional?

• 1:26:55Speaker 01

  Uh, well, reality does, reality testing. So here's the thing, like, for example, I watched Matt Walsh's What is a Woman? And then he would ask people, what is a woman? And they're like, oh, you have to ask a woman, I'm not a woman, that doesn't do. There's no, they don't, they find biology offensive. And if you're finding reality offensive, then your truth is delusional.

• 1:27:16Tom Bilyeu?

  But they're gonna say that you're delusional. So I'll steelman their side of the argument.

• 1:27:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, you're confusing biological sex with gender. And gender is generated in the brain. And it is a spectrum. And so what you're calling a woman is really somebody that is a birthing person? I forget the verbiage they use.

• 1:27:42Speaker 01

  Well, what I would, yeah.

• 1:27:44Tom Bilyeu?

  But now what do you do with that? Because they believe that they are correct.

• 1:27:48Speaker 01

  What I would say to that is, and if you believe gender is a psychological construct, why, when you are a man that wants to be a woman, do you change your biology?

• 1:27:57Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I mean, I can give you an answer and I can steelman them till the end of time. But I think the real question to ask is, what should happen to somebody who is obviously wrong, but they're saying something?

• 1:28:08Speaker 01

  Well, it's not that anything should happen to them.

• 1:28:11Tom Bilyeu?

  So they can keep saying it?

• 1:28:12Speaker 01

  They can say it, but we shouldn't be tiptoeing around their delusion.

• 1:28:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh, I think everybody should say what they think. Everyone should say whatever the fuck they want, quite frankly, as long as it doesn't incite violence.

• 1:28:21Speaker 01

  Legally sanctioned to tiptoe and offend the person who is detached from reality, which is what's starting to happen.

• 1:28:27Tom Bilyeu?

  I take, I take a different stance on that, which is that I don't think uh, we want people determining what is true. I think, going back to my obsession, the key is that you don't want anybody who gets to be the arbiter of what is true.

• 1:28:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Because that's where we run into trouble. I actually think the truth is oftentimes very difficult to ascertain.

• 1:28:49Speaker 01

  You think the truth is subjective?

• 1:28:50Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't think the truth is subjective. I think the truth is hard to identify. So think about um, Newton. So many people say he's the smartest man to ever live. But he was wrong about physics. But he was so close that we were able to pinpoint the movement of the stars, the heavens and the earth and all that. Newtonian physics got us to the moon. But we needed Einstein's physics in order to create GPS, nuclear energy, atomic weapons, etc. So Newton was wrong, but it was still useful. Einstein is wrong. Even though he moved us forward, but he still doesn't have a, yeah, he doesn't have a unified theory.

• 1:29:32Tom Bilyeu?

  Now imagine if everybody said, hey, hey, hey, Einstein, shut up. That's wrong. It doesn't make any sense. You need to stop with that because that's what people did. When he first came up with the ideas, everybody thought he was out of his mind. And I think that is super dangerous. And yet, humans do it all the time.

• 1:29:53Speaker 01

  So do you think the gender debate, do you think the gender debate, we should ground it in reality or ground it in people's emotional responses to being offended?

• 1:30:02Tom Bilyeu?

  I, oh, you can't ever do, uh, hear me when I say. Somebody getting offended is completely irrelevant. And this should all be about, I mean, depend, like, you're gonna have to break everything up into its subcategories. I think people should be able to live their lives however they want. I think people should be treated with respect. And I think that um, you, if you're putting forward something as true, we should be able to put it through the scientific method to find out if that actually is true. And everybody should champion that. Nobody should say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That is a thing that's beyond reproach. You can't question that. You should put the question, everything. Everything.

• 1:30:44Speaker 01

  And so like, it, it, should we put it through the psychological, the biological testing of just gender genitals? Or should we just, you know, accept their reality with that?

• 1:30:54Tom Bilyeu?

  That's gonna come down to entirely, why are we testing it? What are we trying to figure out? What's the, the purpose or the point?

• 1:31:02Speaker 01

  What is the outcome?

• 1:31:04Tom Bilyeu?

  That, what is the outcome that's bringing the question to bear?

• 1:31:08Speaker 01

  I mean, I don't live in a later, I don't know how big the debate is here. Um, where I'm from and to buy this non-existent, but is it quite a big debate in America?

• 1:31:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Day to day existence, I never encounter it. On the internet, I encounter it frequently.

• 1:31:21Speaker 01

  On the internet, it seems like everybody in America doesn't know what gender means anymore.

• 1:31:26Tom Bilyeu?

  It comes up in some very surprising moments.

• 1:31:32Tom Bilyeu?

  And I have my share of worries when it comes to kids. That's where I get concerned.

• 1:31:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I always get concerned anytime that the biggest beneficiary of any law is a pharmaceutical.

• 1:31:49Tom Bilyeu?

  That is probably a very reasonable thing to be skeptical of. So the only stance I will take is everyone should be able to question everything.

• 1:31:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:31:56Tom Bilyeu?

  So people should be able to question the pharmaceutical industry.

• 1:32:01Speaker 01

  Religion, everything.

• 1:32:04Tom Bilyeu?

  Nothing should be beyond reproach. And the scientific method should be our ultimate arbiter of truth when we need to pin something down.

• 1:32:13Speaker 01

  So it's a way of testing the literacy.

• 1:32:15Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, because I'm human flourishing, human flourishing. That's where I come down.

• 1:32:19Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:32:24Tom Bilyeu?

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• 1:33:09Tom Bilyeu?

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