Ryan, Fred & Chan: The OG's Talk Twitter, UFC, Jeff Saturday, Deshaun Watson & More

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast FOLLOW HAPPY DAD: https://www.instagram.com/happydad FIND HAPPY DAD: https://www.happydad.com/find It’s Friday and we are chopping it up or as Channing says- just your uncles sitting on the back porch talking about life and what's going on in the world. Many of you have asked for a show with just us, so we figured it's a good time to do that, catch up and talk amongst us OG's. And without a guest, we don't have to be on our best behavior so anything goes in this conversation! We are coming off a heart break after watching our guy Israel Adesanya lose his belt this past Saturday and speaking of Saturday, we also are talking Indianapolis Colts and the controversial hiring of their new head coach, Jeff Saturday along with other news around the NFL including the return of Deshaun Watson and also discuss some other questionable situations going on in sports. Ryan opens the conversation by discussing Izzy's recent fight in which was Fred's first time experiencing the UFC in person and how his emotion had him feeling like he was back on the field. Channing says how he took Izzy's loss personal since the fighter was just on the show while Fred took it personally that people were saying he shouldn't be doing interviews before a fight of that magnitude almost blaming it on a lack of focus instead of the actions in the octagon. This leads into a conversation about superstition and debate between commitment vs routine. Channing, Fred, and Ryan agree that they don’t believe in superstitions but they do believe in preparation. Transitioning to a conversation about the NFL, the guys talk Tom Brady and Bill Belichick, Jeff Saturday's hiring by his friend and former boss, the Rooney rule and return of Deshaun Watson to the Browns facility in an official capacity. Ryan firmly believes that Saturday's hire isn’t a race issue but rather one of familiarity and nepotism while the guys continue the tough conversation of how Deshaun's return will be received in the locker room as well as by Cleveland's fans. Fred thinks as long as he wins, people slowly forget what you were in trouble for but losing often magnifies the trouble surrounding someone. Being connected to controversy isn’t new for professional sports teams and seems ongoing as Fred asks the guys their opinion about Mitchell Miller, the Boston Bruins NHL Hockey Player. The guys get into a deep discussion on whether Mitchell’s career should be over and ruined due to his poor choices and actions as a young boy. Regardless of the outcome, Ryan makes it clear that any situation like this whether innocent or guilty, right or wrong, that athletes or people in the public eye can't ever escape the cloud that follows them with incidents like this. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY)1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL/IN/LA/MI/NJ/PA/TN/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXT STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/KS/NH), 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), visit OPGR.org (OR), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA).21+ (18+ NH/WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/KS/LA(select parishes)/MI/NJ/NY/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. Void in ONT. Valid 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min $5 pregame moneyline bet. Bet must win. $200 issued as eight (8) $25 free bets. Sponsored by DK. Ends 11/20/2022 11:59 PM ET. Eligibility restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.draftkings.com/footballterms.#1 Rated Sportsbook App based on Eilers&Krejcik (2Q22). Product Analysis: Testing, Scoring, and Ranking U. S. Sports Betting Apps Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 0:11Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Semaglutide injection, 2.4mg a GLP-1. Call 1-8334-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 0:30Ryan Clark?

  Of all the people on this show that could lose their phone right before we film a show, you're actually the best one.

• 0:37Channing Crowder?

  Because I don't even...

• 0:38Ryan Clark?

  Because you don't even know you have one, most of the time. Unless you're talking to Asia, so it don't really matter. Like, if me and Freddie lose our phone...

• 0:44Channing Crowder?

  Curtain.

• 0:45Ryan Clark?

  It's curtain. Like, if I couldn't tweet, walking off the plane, or at least read all the people that was pissed off about something I tweeted about, like, I don't really know how I would act.

• 0:54Channing Crowder?

  Do you know the first thing I thought about when I didn't find my phone? I was like, "Bitch, I'm on level 7,000 of Candy Crush." If I lose my Candy Crush status, I'm gonna be so high.

• 1:04Fred Taylor?

  That was the first thing that came to mind?

• 1:06Channing Crowder?

  First thing I thought about. I thought about, "I can't call my wife, and now my Candy Crush status gonna be ruined."

• 1:12Ryan Clark?

  What do you get if you're very good on Candy Crush, though? Nothing. It's pride thing. It's a pride thing.

• 1:19Channing Crowder?

  It's a thing where you show other people, be like, "Yeah, I'm on level 7,000." They'd be like, "Oh, I'm on level 2,000."

• 1:23Ryan Clark?

  But isn't Candy Crush like, real 2016, though?

• 1:28Channing Crowder?

  I don't know all these. That's minutia, what you're bringing into this conversation.

• 1:32Fred Taylor?

  It's crazy. We're in the biggest city in America, and you lose your phone. Nothing else to do, no payphones, no hotels nearby, and the first thing that come to mind is Candy Crush.

• 1:45Channing Crowder?

  I lose my Candy Crush level. And, as cute as I am, I could ask anybody to use their phone, they'll let me.

• 1:52Ryan Clark?

  All right, lives are being told.

• 2:17Ryan Clark?

  Welcome to The Pivot. It's gonna be a little different today. I know you guys have kind of gotten used to the three of us and we sit down and we interview. But the reason we started this podcast is because I'm interested in what Fred Taylor has to say. I'm interested in what Channing Crowder has to say. I'm actually tired of listening to myself. But we are gonna get back to podcasting, to talking, to speaking about the events that go on in our lives or that are going on around us and how they affect us. And hopefully, you learn something from it. It's Happy Dad, our sponsors, we say thank you. The Draft Kings, we say thank you. Remember, man, continue to subscribe and hit that like button. And we still enjoy your comments. Those comments help us.

• 2:59Ryan Clark?

  And hopefully, you enjoy chatting and talking to other people who also love The Pivot the exact same way that you do and the way that we do. Channing doesn't have a phone, but it doesn't matter. For, I'm gonna give you a little inside information, right? If you ever got a chance to be at the podcast live, we often look at our phones. And we pay attention to the people that we're interviewing or our guests. But we look at our phone because that's the way we communicate. Or Fred kicks his foot up, or Channing points at himself and looks at himself like this. And so, all of these things go on within our podcast that you never get to see because we got the best friggin' producer in the world. And it makes it look like this junk is seamless and we just go through it. But we actually don't. And it also just looks like we're just sitting here, but it's like 17 million cameras and

• 3:44Ryan Clark?

  this big ASSE light in the middle. And that's what we do. And so, it's been going on a while, so we've now let you behind the scenes a little bit. But what's crazy is, is right now, we are still in New York. We filmed in New York last week with Israel Adesanya. Last weekend or the weekend that just passed, we were all locked in. Your group chat was fired up. Freddie T's texting from octagon side, sending us videos and pictures. And for four rounds, we was like, hell, yeah, our boy, right? Because at that point, he our boy. Get him! Right? At that point, our boy is winning. Fifth round starts. My dog DC say, what Israel Adesanya can't do is stand in front of Alex Pahetta.

• 4:31Ryan Clark?

  Oh, Alex is how he says it. And he does. And then he drops. And then we get that one word text from Fred. Because Fred sees it before we all see it. Damn.

• 4:40Fred Taylor?

  Damn.

• 4:41Ryan Clark?

  When it happened, Freddie T, man, you sitting there octagon side, bro. You, you around all the stars. Halle Berry like two, three rows in front of you. What you feel, other than, man, Halle Berry is really pretty?

• 4:51Fred Taylor?

  I'm hurt. Because Izzy now, you know, having him on the show, that's our boy. You know, and, um, and I'm a, I'm a UFC novice, right? First fight, going out, support Izzy. And, uh, the atmosphere, the atmosphere was amazing. UFC, like, they do it right. Like, it was amazing. And he gets up, he's fighting, he's doing his thing. I'm like, aight. We're exchanging the texts. Like, aight, we're good. He was winning every round, I think. And then fifth round, we're like, aight, just, you know, just don't take the big shot. That didn't happen. So, and it happened so fast in person. You put your head up and you look at it on the big screen. But I'm seven rows back, I'm like, I need to look at it right here.

• 5:36Fred Taylor?

  But it's so quick and those fighters are so amazing. When it happened, I'm like, nah, that ain't, that ain't the punch that did it. But when you look at the slow mo on the big screen, you're like, like, what's going on? Man, but my heart dropped. And I felt like shit, like the guy, the, the whole [bleep] arena. Everybody's like, ah. You know, they didn't want Izzy to lose. He's such an amazing person. And I felt the same way, my heart just dropped, man. It felt like I lost the Super Bowl I never played in. That's a shot at you.

• 6:08Ryan Clark?

  You can't take a shot when I actually played in one.

• 6:11Fred Taylor?

  I know, but that's, that's what I'm saying. The fact is,

• 6:15Ryan Clark?

  Thank you for saying it for me.

• 6:16Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, yeah, the point is, like, I can imagine how it feels. But that's that. But yeah, it felt bad, man. It felt real bad.

• 6:24Ryan Clark?

  But even watching it from afar, like,

• 6:28Channing Crowder?

  Why did he change the approach? Like, I always say, "Dance with your date." Like, four rounds, this man was whooping Pereira.

• 6:37Ryan Clark?

  That's what he said? Paheda. Paheda. I know you. I've been working on it. You always do a little mouthful when you do a paheda.

• 6:43Channing Crowder?

  But he's winning. Then he walks in and just wants the big man brawl. Four rounds, you didn't big man brawl. Why you big man brawled in the fifth? I was so surprised. I was watching it on TV. Freddie was there. I'm watching it and just like, "Why did you brawl? Why did he brawl? Why did he want to brawl, RC?"

• 7:01Ryan Clark?

  Okay, so, one, I don't think he brawled as much as he stopped moving.

• 7:05Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 7:05Ryan Clark?

  Like, if you watch the other rounds, he was moving around. He was trying to get in and out. Anytime Alex had any type of success, it was with Izzy's back against the cage. And so I think he just got still. And that dude's so massive. We were talking about it, right? And you're about, the size they were fighting, you're about that much bigger than me.

• 7:24Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 7:24Ryan Clark?

  Right? And so if we were in an organized fight, not like a street fight where you could just grab me, throw me over the bar, but like in an organized fight with some rules, I might be able to bink-bink you, but it would take me a ton of punches to actually knock you out. Whereas if you hit me at your size, it'd just take one to stun me. And that's what he got. But not even that, though. This is the second time that has happened in four months to two longstanding champions in the UFC. Kamaru Usman, who was actually in Wakanda Forever, which was released last Friday. He's fighting Leon Edwards. He beats him. I think it's less than a minute, he gets kicked in the head, he's out. And so now he's sitting on a side Nigerian, of Nigerian descent. He's in the locker room with Izzy before Francis Ngandu.

• 8:07Ryan Clark?

  All these people are here and they watch this happen. My thing for y'all is, though, as people who do the show, right? We are also fans. Like, we become fans. Like, when you sit with a dude and you start to know him a little bit, like you root for. As the fan in me, when he stole on him in the first round, I text Freddie T. I'm like, "They better save him, Freddie T."

• 8:28Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 8:29Ryan Clark?

  And then when he lost, I was in freaking Wazoo. I was in Pullman. I was in Spokane, where damn Juliana Pena from.

• 8:36Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:36Ryan Clark?

  I was in Spokane, Washington, and I had a full bed, because it was the last room left. So me and Yonk had to sleep in a different bed.

• 8:42Channing Crowder?

  A full bed?

• 8:43Ryan Clark?

  It was a full, it was a full size. Right? So I'm sitting on my full size on the edge and she's sleeping.

• 8:47Channing Crowder?

  Tight.

• 8:47Ryan Clark?

  I didn't scream and cuss and woke everybody up. Well, it was just me and her. I did, man, I was hot. Channing, when you're watching those things and you're rooting for people that are on our show, why are you rooting? Are you rooting because you want people to be like, "Oh, if you come on our show, you win"? Or you just get that attachment to them as people?

• 9:06Channing Crowder?

  I think it's the attachment as people. Once you, once you meet a man, and once you sit down and talk to him-

• 9:13Fred Taylor?

  Or a person.

• 9:14Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, a person, even you bring opinion.

• 9:16Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 9:16Channing Crowder?

  Julianne Pena, I am a fan for life. But once you sit down and look a person in the eye, and I think that's with this, I don't know, be the old man talking about this social media world and all this, but just now, the personal connection to people, and to sit and look them in the eye and see how they move, and see what their team is like. And you kind of, you like people. And you get an attachment to them. And so that's what it is when you meet people and see how they move and see what they are and just feel their energy. You're like, "I like that person. I like Izzy. I like, uh, Julianne Pena. I like-"

• 9:51Fred Taylor?

  Sugar Sean.

• 9:52Channing Crowder?

  Sugar Sean. I like them, um-

• 9:54Fred Taylor?

  Janet Kramer?

• 9:55Channing Crowder?

  I like Janet Kramer. I followed her. I'm gonna download all her albums, you know what I'm saying? Like, I, I like the energy of people. And that's the thing that I love meeting people and seeing people and just talking to people, looking them in their eyes. And that's the thing, I think, a lot of this generation, I'm gonna be the old man, a lot of this generation has lost, is just sitting down and having conversations like we do with people. And I think that's why we're successful, to sit down and talk to a person, look them in their eye, and just feel their energy. More than what they say is who they are. And you can feel that.

• 10:26Fred Taylor?

  That's true, Chan. But you know how it goes, man. The world is crazy. The world is very sensitive. And what drives that is social media. You know, I had a guy, you know, and I, I think we'll probably talk about it at some point, or other, I would love to talk about it at some point. They're talking about the NFL turf. Somebody say, "I'm gonna preemptively tell Fred Taylor to shut up."

• 10:51Fred Taylor?

  What did I do? Like, bro, what the [__] did I do? But that's a whole nother story, but that's social media, right? And, uh, you know, also someone attacked me and said, "You guys gotta stop doing fighters, because you're 0-2." The fact is, we're not 0-2. Who believes in superstition?

• 11:10Channing Crowder?

  Well, Deontay put somebody asleep with a phantom right.

• 11:13Fred Taylor?

  Right, sugar.

• 11:14Channing Crowder?

  Errol Spence knocking out a whole eye.

• 11:16Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 11:17Ryan Clark?

  He knocked it out.

• 11:19Channing Crowder?

  He ain't got no eye.

• 11:20Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 11:22Fred Taylor?

  Right, so, but that's the thing that I'm saying. You know, but these are the comments, and you opened up by talking about, "We, we, we like your comments." Oh, I'ma read the comments. I'ma read the comments. Straight up. I'ma read the comments.

• 11:35Ryan Clark?

  Ready on top of it.

• 11:36Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, so, uh, but we do like the comments, appreciate the feedback. Uh, but in this one particular comment, it's like, "Hey, you guys gotta stop doing fighters, you know, before they fight." Look, I guarantee you the fighters would say, "It came down to my discipline, to my preparation, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera." All of that stuff is like horoscopes. People who read our horoscopes, they're superstitious, they believe in that BS. Nothing like, what did Von Miller say? It's, it's about sacrifices. You know, it's about putting in the work, it's about preparation and being ready. And you cannot give. And, and I think in Izzy's case, in his defense, he didn't have his defense up. He got one nice shot on him,

• 12:20Fred Taylor?

  guy caught him, staggered him, but he was still there, as a true champ would be. And, uh, it took a lot. And I heard his interview, he said, "I was good. You know, I felt that I could have continued." But, uh, you know, neither here nor there, he, he took the L, but he took it like a man. In his post-game, in his post-game interview, he stood up and say, "Man, this is a beautiful life." You gotta respect that, because you're gonna win some and you're gonna lose some. But you gotta be ready to come back, and that's the way it goes.

• 12:49Channing Crowder?

  I don't know if y'all think any different way. I've felt this way my whole life. There is no such thing as jinx, there's no such thing as superstition. That is something that you put in your mind. Sock, what's that? Sock, sock, shoe, shoe, or sock, shoe, sock, shoe, and all that, the things that you do before a game to get ready, does not affect your performance. I've tell, when I coach, I tell my kids that. Superstition is bullshit.

• 13:16Channing Crowder?

  Superstition, jinx is bullshit. The jinx of this, the jinx of that. All that's bullshit. It is, it is science. Like, hey, if I'm bigger than you, you talk about me and you fighting. Why would the fight be? The fight's gonna be because you're quicker and I'm stronger.

• 13:31Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 13:31Channing Crowder?

  So you gonna hit me more and I might hit you harder. That's what all this comes down to. NFL games, the team that's prepared better is gonna win. The player, play to play to play, because it's 11 1-on-1. That's what football is. 11 1-on-1s. The player that is more prepared in that 1-on-1 is gonna win. I don't give a damn how you put your fucking shoes and socks on. If you did this, if you ate pancakes, or you ate pasta before the game. I used, it used to kill me when God like, I gotta eat, I gotta eat spaghetti and meatballs the night before the game. I gotta eat pancakes the day before. That shit doesn't mean anything if you're not ready to play. I don't believe in any of that, and I think everything, I wanna hear y'all's opinion.

• 14:14Channing Crowder?

  I think all that superstition is bullshit.

• 14:17Ryan Clark?

  So here would be the thing, I would push back on that. I believe that about superstition. I don't believe that about routine. Now, I don't believe that routine makes me a winner, right? Like, I don't believe that sticking to my routine means I'm gonna get a W. I feel like sticking to my routine is gonna put me in the best place, at least here, as far as what I feel, what I think, how I move, put me in the best place to win. Right, and so how I would look at it was, alright, on Mondays, I watch film a certain way. I did a certain thing for treatment. On Tuesdays, I watch film a certain way. I did a certain thing for treatment, and I did the same thing every week. I went, I got to the stadium at the same time. I set myself up at the same time. And it wasn't, it wasn't for me, because I felt like that meant I was gonna get a W.

• 15:02Ryan Clark?

  I felt like that meant I did everything I needed to do to prepare my way. And then, that made me feel like, if Channing Crowder beats me on this play, he beat me because he was better on that play. Not because I didn't study, not because I didn't prepare, not because I didn't take care of myself, because he was better, and I can live with that. I always wanted to walk out of the stadium and say, you know what, RC? You did everything you could possibly do. That guy was better, that team was better. You can go on and live your life. What I was always nervous about was, something, something, and this is the negative too, Chad. Like, something pops up in my life, like the kids got something, right? So the kid, Jordan might have a game or a practice at 6 that I gotta take him to. And now you take it to that practice and you push something back. And then now you push something back, so now you don't get to watch film.

• 15:45Ryan Clark?

  That was always my thing, because it was like, okay, do I stay awake to watch more film when I'm sleepy? Just to watch the film, which I may not need that day. Because I can catch up tomorrow, right? So that was kind of always my thing that would play in my mind like, damn, RC, on Monday, you was supposed to watch those four games and you didn't.

• 16:03Fred Taylor?

  I just want to jump in. Boy, I love that. Hey, listen, what's the difference? What's the difference between routine and commitment?

• 16:12Speaker 00

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now it's your time.

• 16:22Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Someaglutide injection, 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 16:41Fred Taylor?

  They look the same, right? Think about it.

• 16:44Channing Crowder?

  They are the same, ain't they?

• 16:45Fred Taylor?

  No, no, no, no. He just said, you can have a routine, the cold tub, whatever you always do. But some days you get into the [BLEEP] mode, like, this ain't the day. Commitment reinforces that. He just said here, if Jordan's practice or whatever engagement comes into play and replaces his routine, he can either decide to A, I'm gonna just do Jordan and I'm good, or B, the commitment got to take over. You understand what I'm saying? So what I've always looked at, and I had to ask myself when I played, you have a routine getting up at 5, getting to the stadium. But some days, you don't feel like it, Chan. So they look the same, but they're totally different.

• 17:29Fred Taylor?

  I just want to make that point because you kind of, it was great.

• 17:33Channing Crowder?

  To that point, bro, I just thought about, let me throw a curveball at y'all.

• 17:36Fred Taylor?

  No.

• 17:38Channing Crowder?

  It was, I think, my third year. And Zach Thomas, I've talked about Zach before. Zach's my OG. Zach's my man. Like Zach, I honestly don't think I would have played this long. I wouldn't have got my second day, I wouldn't have got paid if I didn't have Zach Thomas in my corner. Zach Thomas is that dude and I love Big Brother to death. We still talk, our kids play. So Zach used to have a stretch guy, IV person and all this stuff and then the Doing everything he needs to do. Everything you could do and Zach really locked into what he needed to do for his body. So at one point, I think it was going in my third year, I said, I'm gonna get on Zach's plan. And Zach had a meal plan. So he had a guy that delivered food to his house every two days.

• 18:22Channing Crowder?

  Six, six little black platters with this little plastic on top. And so I got Zach's stretch guy, I got Zach's IV guy. I locked into Zach Thomas's Plan. Plan. His schedule, his regiment. His, to that point, that made me think about it. I wanted to do what Zach does because Zach Thomas is a Hall of Famer. I've argued about it before and if y'all don't put Zach in the Hall of Fame, I'm gonna slap somebody. But I wanted to lock into Zach Thomas, right? I did it all off season. I lost a bunch of weight, felt good, ball, you know, saying, did my thing. Went out there, week one, had about four tackles. Week two, three tackles. I'm two weeks into the NFL season, I have seven, eight tackles, something like that.

• 19:07Channing Crowder?

  And I actually told Zach, I said, Zach, your regimen doesn't work for me. I said, I need to go to strip clubs, I need to drink Hennessy.

• 19:16Ryan Clark?

  So was that superstition or was that routine? Your commitment to the routine?

• 19:20Channing Crowder?

  I want y'all to, I want y'all to tell me what it was. And I started partying again, I started running the streets and I started making plays again. Y'all let me know.

• 19:31Ryan Clark?

  It's what

• 19:31Channing Crowder?

  Is that my, like, is that mindset?

• 19:33Ryan Clark?

  But it's what felt most natural to you. I can bet, or I would at least like to think, if you continued on what Zach had you doing, and eventually you would have fell into it and started to play better. Like, there were some weeks that I did exactly what I was supposed to do and I had two tackles because that was how the game Or I missed the tackle because it was freaking, you know, it was freaking, uh, LaDainian Thomason. Right? Like I missed that tackle, not because I wasn't prepared, because the mother F was better. Right? Like I told you about to play with, I told you about to play with Freddie. I was about to end Fred's night. I saw it. He was to the left of me, right? I come down in the flat. I was like, I know he don't see me. Sleepy Johnson. It's a rap.

• 20:17Ryan Clark?

  He hit me with the spin move. I dang it, kill pot dog.

• 20:21Ryan Clark?

  I didn't kill pot dog. In Jacksonville. In Jacksonville, you know what I'm saying? But like, that wasn't because I wasn't prepared, you know what I mean? Because later on that game, I'm at zero. They got a screen to MJD. They got three blockers in front of them. I make the tackle. They got to kick a field goal. And it's just, it's just part of it. But I do think like, we just feel more natural in certain things. But like when people are talking about like whether don't have fighters on your show, this and this, you know? Like I look at Izzy, it was, he did, you know, uh, Ario Halani's show. He did first take. Like he did all these, they did Taylor Rooks, who was a guest on our show because he was the, because he's a star. Right? Because he's the champion. And I say this to people all the time and like they, I don't think they actually get it.

• 21:03Ryan Clark?

  I can be in a stadium with 90,000 people and only see 21 of them. Right? I see the other 10 dudes playing with me. I see the dudes playing offense. I don't hear, like, it's crazy. You stop hearing. You know what I'm saying? Because you're so focused on your job, like you just do it.

• 21:24Channing Crowder?

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• 22:04Channing Crowder?

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• 22:47Channing Crowder?

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• 23:31Channing Crowder?

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• 23:54Ryan Clark?

  Another guy who to me is now like in a different world and he worked with me is Jeff Saturday. Just to take people through the story who don't know, Jeff Saturday was an ESPN NFL analyst. On Mondays and Tuesdays and Wednesdays, Jeff Saturday's doing the exact same thing that I'm doing. I think Jeff Saturday may have like almost a 500 record as a high school coach because he coached his kids. Jeff Saturday was a consultant for the Indianapolis Colts. Jeff Saturday is an All-Pro. Jeff Saturday was a Pro Bowler. Jeff Saturday is a Super Bowl champion and Jeff Saturday played with Peyton Manning. Jeff Saturday, like I said, he consults with the Indianapolis Colts. Jeff Saturday is also really good friends with Jim Irsay.

• 24:39Ryan Clark?

  Jeff Saturday is now the head coach of the Indianapolis Colts. And not only is he the head coach, he's also 1-0 as the head coach. Because he beat Josh McDaniels, who we are learning probably shouldn't be a head coach.

• 24:53Channing Crowder?

  He better stay under Daddy Belichick.

• 24:55Ryan Clark?

  Well, one-

• 24:55Channing Crowder?

  He needs his, he needs big man in front of him.

• 24:57Ryan Clark?

  So, to that, know what I've learned about that? They don't need Belichick. Everybody needs Tom Brady.

• 25:05Channing Crowder?

  Speak on that.

• 25:06Ryan Clark?

  Right? Belichick doesn't have Tom Brady. We're not talking about the New England Patriots going to win a Super Bowl. No, they're still a good football team, right? But you know what they are? Last in the AFC East. Yeah, the Jets are over them, right?

• 25:18Channing Crowder?

  Jones and Zappy?

• 25:20Ryan Clark?

  Exactly. They haven't won a playoff game since Tom Brady has left. Tampa Bay Buccaneers have won a Super Bowl. We look at Bill O'Brien. He goes to the Texans. He does have success as far as it pertains to what the Texans are. He's a guy that can't win. Romeo Cornell, Josh McDaniels, Matt Patricia, Joe Judge. Like the list goes on and on and it starts to be to me like, okay, is it that they can't win not being under Belichick? Or they can't win without Tom Brady? But I digressed.

• 25:49Channing Crowder?

  I don't think Brady has six in Jacksonville.

• 25:54Ryan Clark?

  Agreed.

• 25:55Channing Crowder?

  Without Belichick. Agreed. But I know, to your point, I know Belichick doesn't have six without Brady. Yep. So they want to put that on people. I think it's a combination. We won the AFC East when I was with the Dolphins in 08, the Wildcat year. So Matt Cassel was there, and they still were 11-5. And the Dolphins. They didn't go to the playoffs though. Beat them out. They didn't go to the playoffs. We end up winning AFC East and the wild card, and we played the Ravens. And Ed Reed ruined my life because Ed Reed is a monster. Yeah. Ed, come on on the show, bro. I just, I just want to hug you. To that point where if Brady's there, they're not 11-5. They're 12-4, they're 13-3.

• 26:37Channing Crowder?

  So everybody talks about what makes it, and Fred, you played there. What y'all thought on that conversation? Because everybody wants to have that conversation. Is it Brady or is it Belichick? I think the combination.

• 26:49Fred Taylor?

  It is the combination. I mean, Bill obviously is a Hall of Fame coach. You know what Belichick bring to the table. Tom, the same. I, I, I think that we tend to, you know, we want entertainment. You know, we love sports. We're, you know, we're just like fans, right? Even though we're former players. We like that debate, right? And at the end of the day, that's the perfect marriage. That's what sports need. And that's a once in a lifetime situation. We're seeing that, seeing that Tom is having amazing success since his departure from New England. You know, this year has been a bit of a challenge, but you know, I think. No, no, no, no, no.

• 27:27Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, Brady got old, Fred. I know you don't like the word. Brady got old.

• 27:30Fred Taylor?

  Did you see what they did in Germany versus a very good Seahawks team? Listen.

• 27:36Channing Crowder?

  I saw they threw the worst trick play of all time.

• 27:39Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, that was bad, but they got the win. And I think Tampa is going to start hitting on all cylinders and, and, and show that push. We talked about the, uh, the, the division champ. I think they are going to win that division.

• 27:51Channing Crowder?

  Yep.

• 27:52Fred Taylor?

  Right? They're going to ascend, make the playoffs as they should be. And I know, no better player in the history of the NFL playoffs than Tom Brady. So don't count him out. So. Tom is Tom, Bill is Bill. Two amazing people, two amazing at their job. But this ain't about that. This is about Jeff Saturday. We all heard about it, right? And it was a shock to the world, to the sports world. Jeff Saturday, Saturday, off the sideline, off from broadcasting, new head coach. Shout out to Jeff, did amazing job to get your first win.

• 28:25Channing Crowder?

  Hired his friend.

• 28:26Fred Taylor?

  That's, that's okay.

• 28:27Channing Crowder?

  They hired their friend.

• 28:28Fred Taylor?

  He got a win, Channing.

• 28:29Channing Crowder?

  He hired his friend.

• 28:30Fred Taylor?

  He spoke to, I, I hear you. The biggest argue, wait, no, no, no. The biggest argument in that is this. The Rooney Rule. That's the biggest question mark.

• 28:41Ryan Clark?

  It doesn't, it doesn't pertain to the interim coach.

• 28:43Fred Taylor?

  Well, maybe, I like that.

• 28:46Channing Crowder?

  Reggie Wayne, Reggie Wayne is currently on the coach staff.

• 28:50Fred Taylor?

  I agree.

• 28:51Channing Crowder?

  Why does Jeff Saturday, what'd you say, consultant? Why do you hire a consultant over coaches that are on your staff?

• 28:57Fred Taylor?

  The, the same reason why you would go have a drink with Richard Sherman and not Russell Wilson.

• 29:06Channing Crowder?

  Cause you, the people that you like, I don't think you should hire.

• 29:09Fred Taylor?

  The people you deal with.

• 29:09Channing Crowder?

  Freddie, you shouldn't hire that one. This man is on the sideline, I've watched him and he is one to know. I don't think he is a qualified head coach. Jeff Saturday?

• 29:20Fred Taylor?

  What makes you qualified?

• 29:21Channing Crowder?

  What makes you qualified?

• 29:22Fred Taylor?

  Tell me, what makes you qualified?

• 29:23Channing Crowder?

  Coming up through the ranks, working.

• 29:24Fred Taylor?

  No, no, no, no.

• 29:25Channing Crowder?

  Yes, yes, that makes you, that makes you qualified, Fred. You asked me what qualified.

• 29:29Fred Taylor?

  It's about wins and losses.

• 29:31Channing Crowder?

  Freddie, he's 0-0.

• 29:32Fred Taylor?

  How? He just won.

• 29:33Channing Crowder?

  He ain't done a goddamn thing to get that job.

• 29:36Fred Taylor?

  They are current, currently.

• 29:38Channing Crowder?

  There are people more qualified to have the head coaching job.

• 29:42Ryan Clark?

  Okay, so, so here's my question.

• 29:42Channing Crowder?

  There's only 32 of them. Jeff Saturday, Jeff Saturday is one of the best 32 people to have a head coach job.

• 29:49Ryan Clark?

  Okay, Channing.

• 29:50Channing Crowder?

  That shit is fun, that shit is comical.

• 29:52Ryan Clark?

  No, I, I, I 100% agree.

• 29:55Fred Taylor?

  No, you don't.

• 29:56Ryan Clark?

  No.

• 29:56Fred Taylor?

  Because there's a cer- a certain thing as being overqualified. Some of these coaches.

• 30:01Ryan Clark?

  There is, there is no such thing as being overqualified. That's an excuse, that's an excuse people use to not hire people they don't want to hire. That's the first thing. The other piece of it is this, I agree with you, he hired his friend.

• 30:12Channing Crowder?

  That's my buddy.

• 30:13Ryan Clark?

  Right now, right now, the, the.

• 30:15Fred Taylor?

  Don't agree with nothing else.

• 30:16Ryan Clark?

  The problem in it all is, right? The unorthodox way.

• 30:22Ryan Clark?

  That he went about hiring him because we've never seen it. Right, we've never seen somebody just say, you know what? F it, I got all these coaches on my staff. Gus Bradley is a former head coach. He's a defensive coordinator. I'm not going to hire him. I'm going to hire Jeff Saturday. Right, and so I, I do believe, I agree with you. From the standard of which we've, we've watched coaches be told they weren't hired is more important to me. Whether it's, you know, Eric Biennium or if it's Josh McDaniels being able to be a coach, a, a coach head coach and then go back to the New England Patriots as a coach. It always seems that the goalposts get moved for the people they want to move goalposts for. Right, so the first thing you hear right away, once Jeff Saturday gets the job is, uh, it's race.

• 31:05Ryan Clark?

  I told my, my producer on NFL Live, I get Twitter cannot be the barometer for my opinions. I don't let other people change my opinions. But I do listen to other people to hear what they want to hear about. Right, because I didn't speak on Jeff because I wasn't asked. Right, and I didn't tweet it, I didn't tweet about it because I was like, however many characters I get on Twitter are not going to allow me to encapsulate this the way I want to. And I don't want it to be misunderstood or misconstrued. I don't think it's about the race of coaches in this sense. Gus Bradley's on that staff. He white as this Happy Dad box. Jeff got the job over him too. Scotty Montgomery, who's a former coach at the Pittsburgh Steelers with me,

• 31:49Ryan Clark?

  was a head coach in college, was an offensive coordinator at Duke. He totally under, he's been at the, in the NFL level. He would be a great guy. If you wanted to hire a guy who knew the coach, Reggie Wayne's on the staff. Right, and so I went through all of those things to try to say, okay, why would you hire him? It's because he's your friend. It's because you trust him. It's because he's familiar, right? But familiarity and nepotism and those things have been the problem with hiring coaches, period. Because there is no representation. I would never be able to get hired by my drinking buddy because those dudes who own teams don't want to drink with me. Right, they're not going to look at me and be comfortable enough to be like, hey, I'm used to being around people like you. Come to my house for Christmas.

• 32:31Ryan Clark?

  Now, I played for a coach who was like that with me, but he looked like me. And so now you run into the problem of, okay, is it a big deal? Because he's an interim coach, right? And with him being an interim coach, does this set a precedent though, Channing? That now other coaches can move forward in this way? And how bad of a precedent would that be to set?

• 32:56Channing Crowder?

  But even setting that, like, what are you asking? That all the white owners, who would it be? Shahad Khan? Jacksonville?

• 33:06Ryan Clark?

  Buffalo and Jacksonville are the only two minority.

• 33:10Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, he's a minority.

• 33:10Ryan Clark?

  Minority owners.

• 33:11Fred Taylor?

  He's a minority.

• 33:12Channing Crowder?

  You don't say minority owners. But you just brought up drinking buddies. Like that, with Jeff Saturday being a consultant. Have you been hired as a consultant, Fred?

• 33:21Fred Taylor?

  No.

• 33:23Channing Crowder?

  Like, y'all, ain't nobody hiring me as a consultant. Because they know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna [bleep] off and I'm a bullshit. But y'all are prestigious dudes. Why aren't y'all hired as consultants? Why don't they trust people that way? Because, I'm with you. The nepotism and the comfortability. And that's why the Rooney Rule. That's why the Rooney Rule is there. Because they have to. I hate the [bleep] Rooney Rule. We've talked about it before. You have to date a black man. I'm forcing you to date a black man. Think about that. Because they don't want to do it if they don't have to. And that's the, that's the, the good old boy system. And that's what it is. I'll flat out say it. It's a good old boy system.

• 34:04Fred Taylor?

  So, being an interim head coach, is that a loophole? Within the Rooney Rule?

• 34:10Channing Crowder?

  It's giving him an opportunity that Reggie Wayne should have. That, hell, Herm doesn't have a job right now. You don't think Herbert was gonna do a better job than Jeff Saturday? You don't think somebody? Are they gonna hire Eric B. N. Me?

• 34:26Ryan Clark?

  No, but I feel like you're, I feel like you're arguing the, the wrong thing. We're not arguing if Jeff Saturday can or cannot do the job. What we're arguing is, is Jeff, has Jeff Saturday done enough? In what we've seen done throughout history to deserve this opportunity?

• 34:43Channing Crowder?

  No.

• 34:43Ryan Clark?

  To deserve, that's what we're arguing. Because I'm, and I said it on TV. I think Jeff is extremely smart. And I also, and I also think this. I don't believe you have to have done all of those things that people are asking of head coaches most of the time, except for in Jeff's situation, to run the team. Because I don't have to coach a position. I actually don't know how to have to coach DBs. You know what I gotta do? I gotta know how to delegate. I gotta walk up to Channing and say, Channing, look, when we get into the third down package, what are you thinking? What are you thinking defensively? Are we gonna bring pressure? Are we gonna go fire zone? Are we gonna sit back and allow eyes on the quarterbacks? And you tell me about that? I think about it and say, okay, now I know on fourth down, whether or not I can go for it or not on fourth down, what they're gonna do. And now I can delegate and tell people to do things.

• 35:28Ryan Clark?

  So I don't necessarily believe it's about his ability to do the job because he's as smart as anybody's ever met. And like he said, I've been in the locker rooms. I know people. I'm a leader of men. All those things, I get those. The problem is not him. The problem is the hiring process. The problem is a Jim Ursay, right? Who I wouldn't trust with your sneakers. Right? Gets to make this decision. Right? That's how I know Daniel Snyder ain't worth crap. Because Jim Ursay don't like him. If Jim Ursay say you've done something that means you shouldn't own the team, then your ASF shouldn't own a team.

• 36:02Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 36:03Ryan Clark?

  Because he shouldn't own one. Right? And so when we look at that, it's about the rest of the problems this has now created. But we're talking about a league, bro, that you don't necessarily understand. Hell, think about this. Deshaun Watson? November 14th, he was back in the building.

• 36:20Fred Taylor?

  Yep.

• 36:21Ryan Clark?

  Right? He's back in the building. And so you're dealing with all these different things.

• 36:25Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, no.

• 36:25Channing Crowder?

  First off, let me see. These are my Freddie tees. So you said my shoes.

• 36:28Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, his shoes are fire.

• 36:29Channing Crowder?

  Y'all done criticized my six rings. So now can I? Can I get a little love on my?

• 36:34Ryan Clark?

  No, those are dope. They're much better.

• 36:35Channing Crowder?

  They're nice, though.

• 36:36Ryan Clark?

  They're much better.

• 36:37Channing Crowder?

  I like that low one. That one lows. One lows. What do they call them?

• 36:42Ryan Clark?

  One lows.

• 36:43Channing Crowder?

  Low ones?

• 36:44Ryan Clark?

  Jordan ones.

• 36:44Fred Taylor?

  Get out of here, man. Before we talk about Deshaun, you know, we're talking about what's fair and unfair in the hiring process of Jeff Saturday. The Boston Bruins. You know, there was a situation where Mitchell Miller, right? Mitchell Miller, he was accused of bullying a disabled person, Isaiah Meyer. Fair, unfair that they rescinded his contract?

• 37:10Ryan Clark?

  I think it's a very, it's a very difficult thing. Right? This happened when he was in middle school. Now he's 18 years old. He has.

• 37:23Ryan Clark?

  You know, now come out and say that he's been rehabilitated.

• 37:28Ryan Clark?

  It's about revictimization as well. Now, Isaiah, who's a young man with learning disability, with developmental issues, is having to relive this publicly. And he penned an open letter which details what Mitchell and his friends used to do him. You know, he'd tell me, "Sit by him on the bus," and all his friends would punch me in the head. Or, in order to sit with him at the table and eat, I had to say I was his N-word. And, you know, you start to think about these things, and I think about my children, right? And then not even only thinking about my children,

• 38:08Ryan Clark?

  like, I can't watch movies or shows where adults do [bleep] up shit to kids.

• 38:15Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 38:16Ryan Clark?

  You know what I'm saying? Like, that's not... And I... Like, I know they're acting.

• 38:20Fred Taylor?

  But I know it means a lot to you because I've never heard you say [bleep] up shit.

• 38:25Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, but...

• 38:26Fred Taylor?

  In my life.

• 38:27Channing Crowder?

  Was he a kid doing this to kids?

• 38:29Ryan Clark?

  Yes, he was a kid, and so...

• 38:30Channing Crowder?

  That's the conversation. I'm not defending anything.

• 38:33Ryan Clark?

  No, I'm not. And so, that's my point. That even me, if you saw me when I began to answer the question, I couldn't come out right now and say, "No, I don't think he deserves a contract." Like, I think back to, like, some of the things I did as a child. But when you continue, when you continue to, to, to read what he was did, now, also, what he did, we also have to realize, this became criminal. This became a matter of the law. It was no longer he said, she said. This kid was expelled from school as well. So it is well documented that this was happening. This also becomes the outcry of fans. When the GM Sweeney is having to answer questions about it,

• 39:18Ryan Clark?

  now you realize it's so much bigger than race, though. Because what I can say is, I don't believe if this is Lil' Chan, if this is a kid with out-learning disabilities or developmental issues that just calling him the N-word and beating on him takes his contract away.

• 39:41Speaker 04

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• 39:51Speaker 00

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• 40:11Ryan Clark?

  I believe the larger issue is you're picking on someone that doesn't have the capacity to defend themselves and that's why everybody's involved because everybody can feel that. And so, I can be honest and whether this makes me a bad person or not, even after all I said about the way I feel kids should be treated, is like, I truly don't know if it's fair that he can't earn a living playing hockey.

• 40:36Channing Crowder?

  And right now, as a 39-year-old man, to what 19, 18, 14, 12, 10-year-old Channing did. I wouldn't want to be that and I wouldn't want my employer and I wouldn't want y'all, I wouldn't want y'all as my boys. I wouldn't want these people that we, you know, saying our team to hear some stories from 16-year-old Channing Crowder.

• 40:59Fred Taylor?

  But that's the thing, Chan, you know, there are some articles that Isaiah spoke to and said he doesn't believe Mitchell was, you know, sincere. You know, he said, "Hey, I'm doing this, I'm doing that." He's like, "Well, prove it to me. Prove me that you're changed, that you're different." And he doesn't believe that he's changed. So for that and along with, you know, what the Bruins believe, they don't believe that, you know, he would be the person for their organization. And that's what it comes down to. It's about representation. These professional leagues, they gotta sell tickets. They gotta make sure that they're on the same page as their fan base, right?

• 41:40Fred Taylor?

  So if this guy, if there are bullying accusations, whether from your past, remember when we played, they would always say, "This guy is a virus. This media, this is negativity." We don't want that for this organization. And let's be frank.

• 41:58Channing Crowder?

  In that region of the world right now, in Boston, it's a lot of the wrong type of media going on. The Patriots aren't winning. We saw what happened with, uh...

• 42:08Ryan Clark?

  Ime Udoka.

• 42:09Channing Crowder?

  Ime Udoka, right? It's a lot of negative media circulating around the Boston area. So I think they made the right move.

• 42:18Ryan Clark?

  No, I think they made the right move, but... So I guess, let me be clear. When I say I don't know if, when I say I don't know if he shouldn't have the right to earn a living. What I'm saying is that he should be given the right for a team to be able to look at them based off of what they feel to make the decision. I don't feel like he should be banned from having an opportunity. I don't feel like the league should step in and say that he can't play for anybody. I think that teams should be able to say the same way they can with you, Chan. A team can go talk to your mom. A team can go talk to your high school coach. A team could go visit with whoever they want to visit with and say, "Tell me about Channing Crowder." And from what they get from that, they could say,

• 43:00Ryan Clark?

  "Channing Crowder is not the type of person I want to represent our organization." And I feel like they should be able to do the same thing with Mitchell Miller. I personally would not hire Mitchell Miller. I personally don't think that I would want... I personally don't want a man that has done what he did, no matter at what point in his life, to represent me. No, the thing is this. There are people who play, whether it's football, basketball, baseball, hockey, whatever it is, that have probably done worse things than Mitchell Miller.

• 43:30Channing Crowder?

  There's dudes that choked out women. There's dudes that beat people. There's dudes that...

• 43:34Ryan Clark?

  Exactly.

• 43:34Channing Crowder?

  Killed people with DUIs. I brought up things all the time, like... That continue to be able to support themselves. And I'm not defending it. I'm just, what is devil's advocate. Like, there is worse things than what Mitchell did.

• 43:49Ryan Clark?

  There are worse things than what Mitchell...

• 43:51Channing Crowder?

  And the people continue to thrive in their sport.

• 43:54Ryan Clark?

  There are worse things than what Mitchell Miller did. I think, I do believe as well that his age at the time where he committed or had done these things is important. Like where I have the tough part, Chan, is bringing it back to when the act was committed. And how you can grow from that, how you can be different. But we can go to baseball because baseball kind of gives us a blueprint of this with a former Oregon State pitcher. Right? Luke Heimlich, when he was younger, and this dude was going to be a first round pick. Right? And we're talking about as the College World Series kicks off and it comes out that he's a sexual offender.

• 44:35Ryan Clark?

  And it was because he touched his six-year-old cousin, I believe he was 14 or 15 years old. And so now these teams are looking at his character, those teams are looking at his past, the same way they can do for all of us. And whether it's that some people have done things and not being caught, and some people have done other things. I think each team, each organization, each league gets to pick and figure out what works for them. And we don't always agree, right? Like, we were talking about people before the show that have done things that to me, if you do that, I don't, like, I don't want to be your teammate. I don't want to play with you. You have been in locker rooms with folks saying that you don't rock with for certain reasons.

• 45:20Channing Crowder?

  Yep.

• 45:20Ryan Clark?

  Right? And so now we're looking at the actions of a guy like Luke or a guy like Mitchell from when he was a kid. And we're comparing it, or we're looking at the man we see today, and basically we get to decide, is this dude worthy now?

• 45:34Channing Crowder?

  Did he grow?

• 45:35Ryan Clark?

  Did he grow?

• 45:36Channing Crowder?

  That's a hard question.

• 45:37Ryan Clark?

  Or has what you did or what you have done forever scar you and mark you that you don't deserve this privilege? Because that's the other thing you got to realize. We're not saying that he can never earn a living. Right? What we're asking is, can you earn a living? One, doing what you love to do. Two, doing what is a privilege that a million other people had to live, or a thousand other people had to live a certain way in order to do. So if you're making the decision, if you're the Boston Bruins, what decision do you make?

• 46:08Channing Crowder?

  It's tough, man. It's funny you say that. So if you're a sexual predator, you're registered?

• 46:14Ryan Clark?

  Yes.

• 46:15Channing Crowder?

  Every time you move, you have to register and let all your neighbors know you're a sexual predator? I have felony charges. But it was just whooping ass. I was, if you say something slick to me, I'm gonna punch you in your face. And that's assault.

• 46:30Fred Taylor?

  That was young Chan.

• 46:31Channing Crowder?

  But that was young Chan, but I'm saying, the difference in that, and that's what you're asking RC. I love the fact that if you're a sexual predator, and I have an 11-year-old son, 9-year-old daughter, 2-year-old son, I wanna know if you're around me, and I don't care when it happened.

• 46:50Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 46:51Channing Crowder?

  So to answer your question, there are certain things that I would wanna know about the person. They are sexual predator, I wanna know if that's you. If you're just, if you're an aggressive person and like to fight, think about that. I was a middle linebacker. You were a safety. You were a running back. I don't have a problem if y'all like to fight. Y'all have violent positions.

• 47:12Ryan Clark?

  You know, you read the Bible, right? And biblically, it says that all sins are weighed the same. Right? The Bible, unfortunately, as the Bible is supposed to dictate or be a depiction of what real life was, or an actual account of what real life was. It's not what real life is in 2022. Because what real life in 2022 says is, I've been in a fight before. Channing fighting doesn't bother me. Fred throwing hands does not bother me. Matter of fact, had somebody done to me what they did to Fred that made Fred punch him in the face, I would've punched him for Fred if I was there.

• 47:44Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 47:45Ryan Clark?

  Right? Because I can, I can understand that. Like, to me, that's okay, right? So let's talk about the truth and what really happens. When we look at a young child with developmental issues, that's not okay to us, right? When you look at a 6-year-old young girl being sexually abused by a teenager who she trusts.

• 48:12Ryan Clark?

  That's not okay to us. And because that's not okay to us, we get to make the decision, especially if I own a team, from a GM, public perception, whatever it is, we get to make the decision that, you know what? That's not the right representation of. Mitchell, Mitchell Miller would not be the right representation of me. I don't want to be around you.

• 48:30Fred Taylor?

  Get into it. You address Mitchell, you address the baseball guy. You know, I know we were going to move along to Deshaun. You're talking about being, you talk about privilege. You know, you talk about being rehabilitated. You're talking about image and representation and what the Cleveland Browns stepped out to do. Even with Deshaun, you can ask those questions. And those were accusations versus what we know is true in those other guys when they were younger. Most fans would want to know, has Deshaun done enough, you know, before his return to put Cleveland Browns in position to not have to deal with all the media scrutiny? And the scrutiny amongst themselves as individuals.

• 49:11Ryan Clark?

  It's never going away, Fred.

• 49:12Fred Taylor?

  But that's what we were talking about just a second ago, right?

• 49:15Ryan Clark?

  Fred, I cannot

• 49:19Ryan Clark?

  harshly critique a quarterback without somebody telling me that I played with Ben.

• 49:25Fred Taylor?

  That's true.

• 49:26Ryan Clark?

  Ben had two sexual assault allegations. And if I say Kirk Cousins needs to be better, "Oh, Kirk Cousins needs to be better, but you played with Ben and Ben..." If I say Lamar Jackson has to be better in the fourth quarter, yeah, you saying Lamar has to be better, you going to get on the black man, but you played with... That's every time. That's every time. As a, as a human and individually and personally, Deshaun Watson, to many people, will never not be a sexual predator. He will, he will never, he can never outrun, as talented as he is, what those allegations have done to him. That is a stain he will never wipe off. That's a stain the Cleveland Browns...

• 50:08Fred Taylor?

  Which is so unfortunate, man, because there hasn't been any proof.

• 50:11Ryan Clark?

  It's not, yes, it is.

• 50:12Fred Taylor?

  Where is the proof?

• 50:13Ryan Clark?

  Fred, when it's 24 people.

• 50:17Channing Crowder?

  Honestly Fred, I'm with you. It's the same way I feel about Cosby.

• 50:20Fred Taylor?

  We're talking about numbers, I get you.

• 50:22Channing Crowder?

  No, no, no, the same way I feel about Cosby. If it's one person now, it's he say, she say. When it's 27 she's and one he, your ass doing some weird stuff. That's what, when R.C. brought us, he got, gave us the ESPN opportunity, that's the word I kept using. It is some weird shit going on with this man.

• 50:39Fred Taylor?

  You say weird stuff, you've been saying that for awhile. But I get it, I get it.

• 50:44Channing Crowder?

  Fred, two dozen people.

• 50:46Fred Taylor?

  If you were done, if you were done wrong, right? Why, why settle?

• 50:51Channing Crowder?

  Because what's gonna come from it on the back end?

• 50:53Ryan Clark?

  When you're saying why settle, two sides settled, who are you asking about settling?

• 50:59Fred Taylor?

  If I'm a victim,

• 51:02Fred Taylor?

  why settle? But even on the other side, with Deshaun, right? But it's tougher to, to fight that in court? When you've been accused of something? You know, they like to say you're innocent until proven guilty. It's a little tougher as a black man.

• 51:16Ryan Clark?

  That was not the case, though. One of the, one of the investigators actually said, when she hears the allegation, it is now on the accused to prove that it did not happen.

• 51:31Fred Taylor?

  I remember hearing that.

• 51:32Ryan Clark?

  And so, in, in saying that, it's actually not innocent until proven guilty. At least in his case, it was not. I think, you're double dutching between the law and the league, right? Two different things, right? The law, the league, and then we're also talking about public perception.

• 51:48Fred Taylor?

  But we know what the league brings, and you just said it, public perception. So, most of the times, they say, you know, get rid of this. Make it go away. Because we've been around it. And hell, you work in the media, you know. They say you have to make this go away, make it disappear. How do you do that? Especially after signing a $250 million deal. What do you do? You pay off the victims that say, hey, look, you did me wrong. So you need to pay me a huge sum, or this is gonna happen. Cause Chan, if I feel like you did something to me, I'm gonna fight it to the end. Especially when you took away, you know, you took everything away from me.

• 52:28Fred Taylor?

  Anything that I hold clear, near and dear to me, if you take that away, I gotta come after you with everything. So, and I think that's what the, the, the ledge was, but they didn't see it through. And they took their payday and they went away. I didn't say anything-

• 52:43Channing Crowder?

  To be honest, you talking about what, why settle? And I'm talking about the Sean Watson, he just said it, man signed a quarter billion dollar deal. Why would they settle? Is that what you're asking?

• 52:52Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 52:53Channing Crowder?

  To get something out of this pain, out of whatever happened. We're gonna, we're gonna sit and prove that he did this? What's gonna come from that lawsuit, Fred?

• 53:03Fred Taylor?

  We're talking about, you're talking about integrity, you're talking about women.

• 53:06Channing Crowder?

  Yes, but what's gonna come from proving something that he did this?

• 53:10Ryan Clark?

  We gotta be, we have to be very clear. By the time, by the time it got to him making a settlement, it was now only about money. And I don't, and please understand when I say that, I'm not saying that these women were only searching for money. But at this point, the grand jury made a decision that they weren't going to try him. They were not going to bring this to court.

• 53:32Fred Taylor?

  So you believe-

• 53:32Ryan Clark?

  So all of these, so all of these cases were now civil cases. So it was going to be about how much my pain, how much what I have gone through is worth monetarily to the courts? Through the depositions, that's where we were now. And so I think when you are those women sitting in that point, now it is only about how much I'm going to get for what I am accusing Deshaun Watson for. I don't necessarily know if the argument, if the why would we settle argument gets to prove guilt or innocence. I don't believe that. Right. I believe that that's an argument that we have in the media. That's an argument that builds a certain perception.

• 54:17Ryan Clark?

  But once you've got to that point, if you're Deshaun Watson, I would have to guess the amount of money you're paying a top notch attorney to be on staff every day, monthly, is astronomical, right? And then at that point too, after you fought it for so long and you've gotten all of these, and all of these different allegations and accusations, at some point, I would have to think, and I don't want to speak for him, that you do want it to go away so you can start the rehabilitation process. And now, if you're a woman on the other end, and I want to be very clear, I'm not in any way trying to mansplain anything away. I can't imagine that pain. I can't understand that pain or any agony that a woman may feel

• 55:02Ryan Clark?

  that she feels that she's been taken advantage of. But in that sense, it's been dragged out so long and you've been reliving whatever you believe happened so often and so much, it's like, he's not, he's now, we know he's not going to jail. And so it's like, okay, what can I get out of it? And to a lot of people, like, it's like, that's wrong, right? Like, I can be honest, and I said it on TV. If that was my daughter, but one, I'm rich, right? If that was my daughter, I'd be like, mother F the money. I want something to come out of this that say, that mother F-er was wrong for what he did to my child. That's, that's the point I'm trying to make. And I'm not getting out of that. But we get to feel that way. We're talking about adult women who probably aren't, you know, dealing with their father. And I'm gonna be honest, when I got to talk about it on TV,

• 55:47Ryan Clark?

  I just talked about the facts. The facts are, a grand jury thought that there wasn't enough evidence to indict, not that there wasn't any evidence, but that there wasn't enough evidence. And the burden of proof in those type of situations is actually... Not as hard as proving guilt, right? And they thought to themselves, okay, this is not enough. And so now you get to this position. And so we could haggle about that all day. I think the thing that we need to talk about is, Deshaun Watson was able to get into the building on November 14th. He's gonna step on the field on December 4th, not just on the field, against his former team, the Houston Texans, right? How do you think he was received in that building, right? How is he gonna be received on that field when he steps out on December 4th?

• 56:32Fred Taylor?

  Well, it depends on what side you're on. If you're a Cleveland Browns fan, you're excited. But on the flip side of that, if he was on the visiting team coming into Cleveland, we know they'll crucify him. Because, as you mentioned, everything that he did is gonna always follow him. But they need hope, they need light, and because he's their player, they went out and invested 250 million, they can't wait for him to get back out there and play. So I think the reception will be, you know, open arms. But you can bet this, like anything else, we know winning changes everything, the environment, no matter what, in the locker room, out the locker room. If he's not hitting on all cylinders, don't instantly make them better, whatever he will

• 57:14Fred Taylor?

  be called as a visiting player, he's gonna be called that as a hometowner.

• 57:19Channing Crowder?

  His success and failure is gonna be a lot to what...

• 57:23Ryan Clark?

  So for you, Chan, though, because you seem to have a very strong opinion. Like, I sit on the side of, I wasn't in those rooms, I don't know what happened. I can read, and from reading, I do develop a perception, I developed an idea of what I think. But in talking to the GM, Andrew Berry, and talking to the head coach, Kevin Stefanski, hell, and talking to the PR and media people that we got to talk to, everybody absolutely swears by him. And they love him, inside that building, best teammate, the best dude, the best person. How are you every day with Deshaun Watson if you have the feelings you have right now?

• 58:03Channing Crowder?

  I'm on the team.

• 58:04Ryan Clark?

  You're on the team, you're a Cleveland Brown.

• 58:05Channing Crowder?

  I'm the Cleveland Brown middle linebacker. He is a sexually weird dude, but he's one of the top five quarterbacks in the world.

• 58:14Channing Crowder?

  You see what I'm saying? Like, it's, it's, it's a different level to say, "I know you made, you messed up." "You did some very weird stuff," and that's why I keep using the word weird.

• 58:28Ryan Clark?

  So for you, it's more where there's smoke, there's smoke.

• 58:30Channing Crowder?

  When there's smoke?

• 58:32Ryan Clark?

  There's smoke, not necessarily fire, because you don't know the extent of it.

• 58:35Channing Crowder?

  I don't know the extent of it, but there's smoke, there's smoke. Am I gonna hang with you? Am I gonna get a massage with you? No. I'm not getting in no trouble. But, you have some weird shit going on in your life that I'm not comfortable with. I digress. No, no, no, Freddie, but, but, but. But you're talking about the nudist, the nudist colony. If this is, oh, I know, listen. Why isn't your stuff weird? Why isn't your stuff weird? All the nudists are there happily. Those ladies. But we're talking about. Fred, those ladies were not happily in that situation. That's why they sued his fucking ass, Fred. Who's hanging with who? We're talking about you. I'm not hanging with the show. Why don't they call you weird? No, they, they can call me what they want to.

• 59:20Channing Crowder?

  They can call me what they want to. I'm not sneaking in in the massage parlor talking about, telling nobody to rub my asshole. That's not what I do. Aw, shit. I willingly walk around with my wife naked and we'll have sex on the beach. You asked for the asshole rub. I don't want no asshole rubs. I'm good.

• 59:40Ryan Clark?

  I think, man, I think what, I think what.

• 59:42Channing Crowder?

  I'm trying to bring some light.

• 59:43Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I think, I think what we. I think what we have, have learned, though, is, is truly that people make decisions based on their feelings. People make decisions based on their perceptions. And in the end, it's about the people that hold the power. Whether we are hiring Jeff Saturday because we're comfortable with him and his familiarity, and he's our friend. Whether we're telling. Or we're pulling Mitchell Miller's contract because of the uproar of the Boston Bruins fans for what he did as a middle schooler. Or if I have a dog mask on in the crowd, or if I have a Houston Texan jersey on on

• 1:00:28Ryan Clark?

  December 4th. However, I feel as a person will be my reaction. And I think that that's that that is life. The same way people might tell us, don't do fighters before they play, or don't do players before their game. But I'm sure the Philadelphia Eagles will let us interview anybody because Darius Slay plays Jay Jett as Justin Jefferson, who's probably the best wide receiver in the league right now, went crazy last week against Buffalo. 190? Yeah, and held them to, I think, one catch, one-on-one, and he had two picks. And so I think that when we continue to look at these things, get opportunities to talk about them and share them, I love the different personalities on the show and the way that

• 1:01:13Ryan Clark?

  that comes out. So, we appreciate y'all. DraftKings, happy that, all love. We gonna wrap it up.

• 1:01:44Speaker 04

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 1:01:54Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Someaglutide injection, 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?