Pod Insights Scamfluencers ENCORE: Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker: The God Fraud | Part 1 | 138 About this episode This month a musical featuring a Scamfluencers alum closed its doors on Broadway. Tammy Faye featured music by Elton John and told the story of a televangelist who stole America’s heart with her humor, earnestness, and impressive eye makeup. You may no longer be able to see the musical, but we’re giving you the next best thing: a return to our own coverage of Tammy Faye and her husband, Jim.
Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker get their start in Christian broadcasting in the early 1960s and quickly become television superstars. As their fame explodes, they build an empire complete with their own network, a theme park, and a super-sized luxury lifestyle for themselves. But when their spending – and their scandals – get out of control, they’ll face their own judgment day.
This episode contains descriptions of sexual assault. If you or someone you know is a survivor looking for resources, call the U. S. National Sexual Assault Hotline at 1-800-656-H-O-P-E.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Sarah Hagi? Audible subscribers can listen to all our episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app. Sarah, when you come to visit New York, do you ever go to see any Broadway musicals? You know what's crazy? I have never gone to see a Broadway musical. In all of my visits, I feel like no one will take me. I'll take you. Oh, my God, please, I want to see Cats. Well, what if it was a Broadway show about one of our Scamfluencer alums, specifically Tammy Faye Bakker, who we covered along with her husband Jim a year ago? The musical follows her rise to Christian TV stardom, the scandalous fall when Jim was discovered ripping off his congregants, and Tammy's reinvention as AIDS activist and queer icon.
0:44 Sarah Hagi? Oh, and the music is by Elton John. OK, that is absolutely crazy that Elton John did the music for this. I had no idea. Well, Sarah, it seems like we've missed our chance to see this one because Tammy Faye closed in December. But I'm going to give you the next best thing to actually seeing her story live, and that's a return to our episode on this truly over-the-top televangelist duo. A heads up to our listeners. This episode contains descriptions of sexual assault. Please listen with care.
1:21 Sarah Hagi? Haggie, as you know, neither of us is Christian. But I actually grew up watching a lot of evangelical Christians on basic cable. I used to watch a lot of sermon TV. It was just what was served to me in the suburbs on a Sunday. And I'm wondering if you did too. Sachi, this is like the most relatable thing for people who didn't grow up Christian. I also did the same thing because you're just kind of like, what's going on over there? Yeah. I remember watching 100 Huntley Street in the morning sometimes. It's like the longest ever running thing on Canadian TV and like one of the longest running shows in the world, actually. Yeah. But I remember watching it and being like, what's going on?
2:03 Sarah Hagi? You know, it's like a way to understand the dominant culture, especially when you grow up with a quote-unquote Weird religion, you know?
2:10 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, yeah. It's like anthropology work. You're like trying to make sense of another community.
2:16 Sarah Hagi? Yes.
2:16 Scaachi Koul? Well, as ever, I'm asking because today's scam is about one of the most famous Christian couples to ever preach on TV. Get your non-waterproof mascara ready, Sarah. It's time to cry some big, fat, black tears.
2:34 Scaachi Koul? It's around dinnertime on May 27, 1987. Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker are settling into their living room couch at their beautiful Palm Springs mansion. Jim's dressed in a simple plaid shirt, while Tammy's got on a hot pink dress with matching nails and lipstick. The couple is getting ready to talk to Ted Koppel on ABC's evening news show Nightline. It's their first live TV interview in the two months since they stepped down from their televised ministry, PTL, which stands for Praise the Lord. Their resignation followed a series of scandals in which it came to light that the Bakers had been funneling stolen money into their luxury lifestyle for more than a decade and that Jim had had an extramarital affair. Jim and Tammy are both nervous.
3:18 Scaachi Koul? Millions of viewers are tuning in to hear how the disgraced couple will respond to the scandal. And the stakes are high. If they can nail this interview, maybe they can get their life back, their fame, their glory, their ministry, their adoring followers. Ted Koppel is a famously tough interviewer, but Jim and Tammy Faye have spent roughly the last decade and a half hosting the PTL Club, which is also known as The Jim and Tammy Show, so they're pretty used to being in front of a camera for hours at a time in front of a live audience and millions of viewers at home. They've come prepared with Bible verses, which Jim breaks out as soon as Ted lets him talk.
3:55 Speaker 02 Meanwhile, my enemies are trying to kill me. They plot my ruin and spend all their waking hours playing treachery. But I am deaf to all their threats. I am silent for them as a man who cannot speak.
4:09 Scaachi Koul? Ted is unimpressed. He interrupts Jim.
4:11 Speaker 03 All right, but you're starting to do what I was suggesting to you early on. I wasn't going to let you do tonight. And that is you're wrapping yourself in the Bible again.
4:20 Speaker 02 But that's all I have.
4:21 Speaker 03 But I'm asking, I understand it may be the only protection you have, but it's not the only answer you've got.
4:27 Scaachi Koul? The smiles fade from Jim and Tammy's faces. Ted Koppel is demanding the answers that everyone in America wants to hear. Before the bakers can answer to God, it's clear that there will be hell to pay, right here on Earth.
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5:33 Scaachi Koul? From Wondery, I'm Sachi Cole.
5:35 Sarah Hagi? And I'm Sarah Haggie.
5:36 Scaachi Koul? And this is Scamfluencers.
5:46 Scaachi Koul? At their peak, Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker were TV stars, moral authorities, and adoring spouses. And they got filthy rich doing it. They were living proof that you could be a good Christian while owning big houses and fancy cars. Or at least, that's what they wanted their followers to believe. This is the story of a couple who appeared to be God's favorites, until they squandered it all on their super secular vices. This is the first episode of our two-part series, Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker: The God Fraud.
6:20 Scaachi Koul? In the mid 1950s, Jim Baker is a teenager in Muskegon, Michigan. He's good-looking with big dimples and thick gelled hair, just like Danny Zuko in Grease. But he's also the baby of a very strict Pentecostal family. His grandfather founded the church that they still attend. Jim isn't allowed to dance, watch movies, play pool, or listen to rock and roll music. So he finds ways that he can participate in the fun stuff. He DJs for sock hops, those are very old-fashioned team dances, and he edits the newspaper. He even directs a school variety show as a fundraiser for the paper. It's so popular that it completely sells out. Fundraising will turn out to be one of Jim's greatest skills,
7:05 Scaachi Koul? one that he'll eventually develop into a full-blown career as a televangelist. But at this point, he's not completely sold on the religion he grew up with. It seems to come with so many rules and constraints. Jim's looking for some kind of sign from God, and on a dark and snowy night, he gets it. According to Jim's version of the story, he sneaks out of church with a girl and takes her for a ride in his dad's Cadillac. They blast rock and roll music, and when they head back into the church parking lot, Jim realizes he's hit something. He's horrified when he discovers he's run over the chest of a three-year-old boy, crushing his collarbone and piercing a lung.
7:45 Sarah Hagi? This is like if a Beach Boys song was a horror movie.
7:51 Scaachi Koul? Well, Sarah, the boy survives, and Jim thinks that this is a miracle. He later tells people that this is the moment he finds God and decides to devote his life to the church. But people who knew Jim at the time later dispute some of the details of this evangelical origin story. They say he was actually in the car with his cousin and not a girl from church, which makes the outing itself a little less scandalous. They also say that the event happened when Jim was 16, not 18, suggesting it didn't directly lead to his decision to attend Bible college. Jim, by the way, declined to speak to us for this episode. But either way, what we do know is that he commits to Christianity and he heads to the big city where he's about to meet his match.
8:35 Scaachi Koul? Jim is a second-year student at North Central Bible College in Minneapolis when Tammy Fay LaValle shows up for her freshman year in the fall of 1960. She's a total country mouse in the big city, and she looks the part, too. Here's a photo of her in college.
8:50 Sarah Hagi? She's so cute. She looks tiny, and she just has such an innocent little face.
8:56 Scaachi Koul? I know. She's just a baby. Tammy Fay grew up in a small town in Minnesota on the Canadian border. She was the oldest of eight kids from a family so poor that they didn't even have indoor plumbing. Like Jim, she was raised by strict Pentecostals. And now, she's here at Bible College because she might want to be a missionary. But she has some doubts. First of all, she loves makeup, but she's been told that if she wears too much, she will go to hell. Worse than that, she has firsthand knowledge that even Christians can be cruel. Tammy later writes that after her parents' divorce, quote, "To the church, my mother was just a harlot. Tammy is torn. She wants to honor God.
9:38 Scaachi Koul? So, does that mean she'll have to give up singing, dancing, and mascara? At college, she finds an unexpected answer to that question." One night, after Tammy comes back from bowling with a few other boys, Jim gets her attention by warning her that running around with men might ruin her reputation. It's not exactly a pick-up line, but it's a pretty effective neg. And when he asks her out a few weeks later, she says yes. For the first date, they wait half a mile through Minnesota snow to get to a church service at the Minneapolis Evangelistic Auditorium. The following night, they go on a second date, followed by a third date the next night. On that third date, Jim proposes, and Tammy says yes.
10:22 Sarah Hagi? I mean, when you know, you know.
10:24 Scaachi Koul? Well, there's just one problem. At North Central Bible College, it's against the rules for students to get married. So they drop out of school and tie the knot two days later. They don't know it yet, but they're well on their way to becoming the ultimate Christian influencers.
10:42 Scaachi Koul? Jim and Tammy work odd jobs to make ends meet. But their real passion is working as youth ministers at the church auditorium where they went on their first date. While there, they meet all kinds of glamorous evangelists. One traveling preacher tells them he's gonna buy a yacht owned by the actor Errol Flynn. He says he plans to sail the Amazon River, bringing the Word of God to the native people in South America. He invites Jim and Tammy to come with, but there's a catch. They've got to pay their own way there.
11:12 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, I mean, that's quite the catch for doing a little bit of modern colonialism. You can come, but you actually have to pay for yourself.
11:21 Scaachi Koul? Well, they decide to raise some money by performing at a revival in North Carolina. Revivals are a big tradition amongst fundamentalist Christians. They're typically a series of flamboyant services meant to revive a congregation and convert new followers. At this one, which lasts for two whole weeks, Jim preaches, Tammy sings, and members of the congregation speak in tongues and roll on the floor. Jim and Tammy are a hit. They easily raise the money they need for the yacht trip. But after they hand it over to the preacher, he disappears. Turns out, Sarah, they got swindled.
11:56 Sarah Hagi? Oh. Even if they had raised the money and went to this, it still would have been a scam. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, you know?
12:05 Scaachi Koul? Wasted money, anyway. Jim and Tammy are obviously disappointed, but they decide to go all in on their traveling revival act, anyway. They buy a used car and start performing across the Bible Belt, accepting whatever kind of pay they can get, even, in one case, a live chicken, which they adopt as a pet. After living on the road for almost two years, they realize all these families come to their shows, but their shows aren't super kid-friendly. So they decide to take bubble bath bottles, caps shaped like animal heads, and use the heads as puppets. Around this time, a Southern Baptist minister named Pat Robertson has recently launched a Christian media company.
12:47 Scaachi Koul? It's called The Christian Broadcasting Network, and it's been sending scouts all over the country to find possible acts. When Pat hears about Jim and Tammy's traveling ministry, including their puppet show, he's so impressed that he decides to put them on TV. Jim and Tammy are still in their early twenties, and they're poised to become the next big thing in Christian entertainment. That is, if they can learn to share the spotlight.
13:14 Scaachi Koul? The Christian Broadcasting Network is just getting started, and it doesn't have many viewers yet. But for Jim and Tammy, simply being on TV is a huge break. They start out by hosting a children's show called Come On Over in 1965. But before long, they become so popular that Pat changes the name to The Jim and Tammy Show. They get real puppets that are fuzzy and googly-eyed, and they dance along to the show's theme song. And they even perform on a set built to look like their own little house with a cozy front yard. Kids flock to it, packing the audience at their live tapings every day.
13:50 Speaker 03 From coast to coast, it's time for the nation's biggest yard party, The Jim and Tammy Show.
13:58 Sarah Hagi? It's crazy because, of course, I know about these two and their story on a surface level. And you're like, oh, you know, they legitimately had pretty good chemistry on screen, were very entertaining to children, and, you know, they could have just ended it there. But of course, they didn't.
14:15 Scaachi Koul? They didn't. They didn't at all. But here's the other thing. CBN is a fledgling, scrappy network, and it's constantly on the verge of running out of money. The year that Jim and Tammy join, the network hosts its annual telethon. It needs to raise $120,000 to stay on the air, so the pressure is on. By the last night of the telethon, they're still 40 grand short. The Jim and Tammy Show has only been on the air for two months at this point. But Jim realizes that this is his moment to help save the network. And as the night wears on, he starts crying on live TV, begging for enough money to get CBN through the next year.
14:55 Scaachi Koul? It's the same outpouring of emotion that Jim perfected in his and Tammy's revival performances. And Sarah, it works. After his theatrics, the donations start rolling in. Jim stays on the air until 2:30 in the morning, more than three hours after the telethon was supposed to end. And during those hours, he raises the entire $40,000 that CBN needs to stay on the air.
15:21 Scaachi Koul? Jim may have single-handedly saved the network, but as time goes on, he starts having disagreements with Pat about the direction of his and Tammy's show. Jim wants to be more theatrical, but Pat wants to play it safe. Plus, there are other rifts at the network. Some of Jim and Tammy's colleagues think that they take up way too much airtime and are way too flashy with their money. Jim and Tammy can feel these tensions rising. So after seven years with the network, they decide to leave and strike out on their own. In 1972, Jim and Tammy, now in their early 30s, pack up their baby daughter, Tammy Sue, and go where all stars are born: Los Angeles. It's not exactly the holy land, but it is a place where they can grow
16:04 Scaachi Koul? their audience and their bank accounts. They team up with some fellow ministers to found a nonprofit called Trinity Broadcasting Systems. It functions as a TV network, but it's registered with the IRS as a charitable organization. And this means it doesn't have to pay federal taxes and that donations to the network are tax deductible.
16:26 Sarah Hagi? Oh, that sounds real convenient.
16:29 Scaachi Koul? We'll get more into that later. But in the meantime, things quickly sour between Jim and Tammy and the other founders of the TV network. So after less than a year of working together, the couple decides to pack up and move to Charlotte, North Carolina. Their ex-partners, meanwhile, spin off into a new station called the Trinity Broadcasting Network, which some of our listeners might still recognize. Jim and Tammy Faye have gone from restless, repressed teenagers in tiny Midwestern towns to the next big thing on Christian TV. They've had a hugely successful start to their careers, but as they open their own ministry, their ambition is about to outstrip their capabilities.
17:12 Speaker 03 Hi, I'm Kenny Parris.
17:13 Speaker 06 And I'm Malcolm Gladwell. We're back for season two of our Audible original podcast, The Unusual Suspects.
17:18 Speaker 03 We're bringing you fresh, new conversations from guests like Anderson Paak, David Zedars, Ryan Howard, Rich O, Amy Sheld, and many more.
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17:32 Sarah Hagi? I'm Gemma Whelan, and in the new season of The Spy Who, we tell the story of the original femme fatale, the spy who was Mata Hari, a famous dancer turned World War I secret agent accused of seducing Allied officers to uncover their
17:46 Scaachi Koul? But was she a temptress or a scapegoat for French failures? Follow The Spy Who now, wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also listen to the full season of The Spy Who Was Mata Hari, early and ad-free on Audible.
18:10 Scaachi Koul? In North Carolina, Jim and Tammy pick right back up where they left off. But this time, they're calling the shots. In 1974, they start broadcasting a daily talk show called The PTL Club, under their flagship network, which will become known as The PTL Network. Remember, that stands for "Praise the Lord." And the TV show takes off really quickly. Within a few years, Jim and Tammy majorly upgrade. They start performing in front of a live audience, backed by a band and a gospel choir. They walk hand in hand through the crowd and bask in the applause.
18:48 Scaachi Koul? Jim preaches and Tammy sings, but she's not just the funny, flirty wife anymore. She brings a depth of feeling to the show, crying real tears as she sings her gospel hymns, letting her thickly-applied mascara and technicolor eyeshadow drip down her cheeks. Sarah, take a look at this clip.
19:16 Sarah Hagi? Honestly, I love this. It's performance. She's really giving it her all in performing. And you know what? It's very hard to be in a crowd like that, hearing the swelling music, seeing someone you idolize weeping in this very uninhibited way, and to not be affected. Like, I do understand how this works.
19:38 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, I mean, it's powerful. Meanwhile, Jim wants to be less Mr. Rogers and more Johnny Carson. He brings on famous ministers and orators, as well as regular old celebrities like Mickey Rooney and Colonel Sanders. It's like a late-night talk show, but also like a living-room chat. It's highly public and highly intimate. Running their own show is thrilling, but it's also an unbelievable grind, and it's expensive. Luckily, Jim is a telethon champion. By the end of its first year, he helps PTL bring in 140 grand a month.
20:11 Speaker 03 1-704-554-6000. And we want to send you that new beautiful Bible. And I know you're going to really enjoy it.
20:20 Scaachi Koul? But money making isn't just a daily hustle for Jim and Tammy. It's also become a religious doctrine. Within three years of starting the PTL Club, Jim and Tammy are hosting four telethons a week. They start preaching the prosperity gospel, promising their followers that donations to the church will result in spiritual and material wealth. Their message basically boils down to, "If you want to be us, pay us."
20:47 Scaachi Koul? As the PTL network grows, the Bakers gain access to bigger and bigger celebrities. Like Eldridge Cleaver, a Black Panther who recently found God, and Little Richard, a singer who grew up Baptist. Jim can't resist bringing on famous people. Their appearances rake in more viewers, which brings in more cash. And in pursuit of these famous faces, Jim and Tammy end up, shockingly, talking about sex, drugs, rock and roll, and various other sins onstage.
21:17 Sarah Hagi? Listen, if this show existed right now, I would be watching it just for the entertainment purpose. Like, this sounds, on its surface, very entertaining, whether or not you believe it. Seeing these two freaky weirdos cry all day, her makeup coming off her face, this guy in this suit with a weird smile talking to Little Richard, somehow bringing up sex and drugs. That's TV.
21:40 Scaachi Koul? Exactly. And that is good for business. But it does draw a dividing line between the Bakers and the rest of the Christian elite. There's a big schism coming in the evangelical community. But Jim and Tammy are riding the high of their successful new show. And they have an even more ambitious project in mind.
22:01 Scaachi Koul? By the end of the 1970s, the PTL Club is more popular than ever. The show has millions of viewers all across the country, and Jim's ready to think even bigger. He wants to build a Christian theme park called Heritage USA, inspired by Disney World. And in his vision, it'll have a water park, a skating rink, a mall, and a main street, plus a hotel, a campground, an amphitheater, and, yes, of course, a church. In the even longer term, Jim is actually hoping to expand Heritage USA into Heritage University. All of the other major Christian preachers have their own schools. Pat Robertson founded Regent University, Jerry Falwell founded Liberty University, and Oral Roberts,
22:44 Scaachi Koul? the televangelist who popularized the Prosperity Bible, has Oral Roberts University. Jim is determined to one-up them all. In his grand plan, Heritage USA will be the first ever theme park slash mega church slash school.
22:59 Sarah Hagi? Okay, these things don't have to be together.
23:02 Scaachi Koul? Think about it. You go to class, you get to go to a water park. Then you find out about how your soul is going to be damned if you eat a cigarette. It's perfect, one-stop shop.
23:12 Sarah Hagi? It simply doesn't make sense effectively. You get too tired after a theme park to go to. Unless it's like you go to church, then you get to go to a theme park. Like, is the theme park the reward at the end? You know, I guess I just want to know how this is organized before I sign on.
23:28 Scaachi Koul? Sure, those are good questions. I don't really know the answers, but it is very ambitious. And that ambition is costly. Jim has a brilliant idea for getting cash upfront. He'll offer timeshares at the hotel. Basically, guests can come for three nights a year, every year, if they put down a one-time payment of $1,000. Jim starts selling tons of these timeshares. In fact, he sells way more than he has rooms to fill. And Sarah, if you're trying to figure out whether that business strategy makes any sense, it does not.
24:01 Sarah Hagi? Ah, this is so frustrating. It's just like, there are too many ways these people are trying to make money. There are just simply too many ways. This is too complicated. Why go into a timeshare business? You had it down with the donations. Just stop, stop.
24:17 Scaachi Koul? Well, Sarah, it just wasn't enough. And on Jim's 38th birthday in the beginning of 1978, he breaks ground on Heritage USA. The campus will spread out across 2,500 acres in Fort Mill, South Carolina. Jim is on the verge of claiming a kingdom for his flock, and he's ready to live like royalty.
24:38 Scaachi Koul? As the PTL network gets bigger and more visible, people start noticing how much its leaders are making and how much they're spending. In 1979, the FCC opens an investigation into Jim and Tammy. They're looking into allegations that the couple raised over 330 grand for missionary work, but ended up spending it on Heritage USA instead. The FCC works on the case for more than three years, but by the end of 1982, it passes the investigation over to the Justice Department. This handoff gets some coverage in the media, like the New York Times and the Washington Post, but PTL's followers don't really seem to care. They see it mostly as bureaucratic, not scandalous. So Jim and Tammy just keep rising.
25:22 Scaachi Koul? By 1985, their network has 13 million daily viewers and is earning $10 million a month. But Steve Nelson, a handsome and clean-cut vice president at PTL, is really concerned. He tells Jim that he's worried that they've oversold rooms at the Heritage USA hotel. Steve doesn't understand why he's the only one who seems worried about this. He even reportedly says, quote, "Someone could go to jail for this." But Jim shrugs him off with his usual serving of Christian generosity. Jim reassures him that there's always room at the inn. Except mathematically, there is not. All Jim cares about is making sure that Heritage USA is a success, and this feels like the competitive edge he's been waiting for,
26:07 Scaachi Koul? the thing that sets him apart from all those other celebrity pastors. In a promotional video about Heritage USA, he gloats about the insane traffic leading into the park.
26:17 Speaker 03 I said, "Can you imagine somebody pulling in here from Des Moines and has driven all day? And then they hit that line of traffic at about 7 o'clock at night, and they've got all across country, and it takes them four hours to get to the hotel after they got a mile from here?" Praise the Lord.
26:34 Sarah Hagi? This is insane because forget any of this has to do with any type of fraud. Imagine organizing something that people are driving several hours to attend and seeing this traffic that they're hitting that will make them wait for even more hours. Wouldn't you be like, oh, this is absurd. We have to figure out how to fix this. Instead, he's like, this is awesome. This is how much people love me.
26:58 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, Sarah, this is the original Fyre Festival. Jim's caught up in the magical thinking that's brought him to the height of wealth and fame. Meanwhile, Tammy is taking risks of her own. She's been using her platform to embrace a radical form of Christian compassion, one that's bound to invite controversy. Around the time Heritage USA opens, the US is reeling from the AIDS crisis. President Ronald Reagan doesn't bother addressing it, and neither do most televangelists, until Tammy Faye. In 1985, she welcomes Steve Peters, a young gay pastor living with HIV, as a guest on PTL. Jim is not into it. It seems like he thinks it's going to offend their base, and he doesn't want to be a part of it.
27:42 Scaachi Koul? So Tammy interviews Steve solo. Steve wears a powder blue suit, and he smiles a lot. He's articulate and kind, and he loves God. And plus, he's super patient with Tammy's, frankly, pretty clueless questions.
27:57 Speaker 07 Do you think maybe you just haven't given women a fair try?
28:01 Speaker 02 No, my orientation is towards men.
28:04 Sarah Hagi? I mean, yeah, that's kind of what I would expect someone like Tammy to say. Duh.
28:09 Scaachi Koul? It's actually not as bad as it could be, frankly.
28:11 Sarah Hagi? No, not at all.
28:13 Scaachi Koul? Well, eventually, Tammy gets to the real meat of the interview.
28:16 Speaker 07 How sad that we as Christians, who are to be the salt of the earth, we who are supposed to be able to love everyone, are afraid so badly of an AIDS patient that we will not go up and put our arm around them and tell them that we care.
28:34 Speaker 02 Yes.
28:36 Scaachi Koul? It's a radical moment targeted directly at right-wing Christians. Tammy is stirring the pot, and her critics are starting to take notice. Meanwhile, a local journalist is looking into her and Jim for other reasons: their finances. And when he starts to poke around, he'll discover a bombshell story, one that will shake the foundation of Jim and Tammy's ministry.
29:03 Sarah Hagi? Ghosts aren't real. At least, that's what journalist Tristan Redmond always believed. Sure, odd things happen in his childhood bedroom, but ultimately, he shrugged them off. Until he discovered that he wasn't alone, that everyone who lived thereafter him also had bizarre experiences they couldn't explain. And it gets even weirder. It just so happens that his wife's great-grandmother was murdered in the house next door. Is this ghost somehow connected to her murder? He decides to go where no son-in-law should, digging up a cold case and asking questions that nobody wants answered. Like, could his wife's great-grandfather have gotten away with the perfect crime? This is a podcast about family secrets, overwhelming coincidence, and the things
29:46 Sarah Hagi? that come back to haunt us. For the best bingeable series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can get all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
30:12 Scaachi Koul? In January 1986, a young journalist named Charlie Shepherd publishes what he thinks will be the story of his career. It's a piece about how PTL has been misusing its funds, and it lands on the front page of the Charlotte Observer. The article features a damning list of personal purchases made by Jim and Tammy using PTL's money. They include a 43-foot houseboat for Jim, a $2,500 min coat for Tammy, a condo in Florida worth nearly $400,000, a half a million dollar house in California, a Rolls-Royce, and a Mercedes-Benz. It's splashy stuff, but it doesn't make a big impact in the way that Charlie probably hopes. It seems like most of Jim and Tammy's followers just shrug their shoulders.
30:56 Scaachi Koul? So Charlie keeps digging. And over the next year, he and his colleagues at the Charlotte Observer published more than 600 stories about the baker's embezzlement of PTL funds.
31:08 Sarah Hagi? Okay, 600 stories about one thing. That is unimaginable and like so thorough. Like that there were 600 stories, that 600 of them were written.
31:20 Scaachi Koul? I mean, beat reporters barely write that much about anything. And this is just about these people and their business.
31:26 Sarah Hagi? This is one of the craziest things I've heard in any episode we've done.
31:30 Scaachi Koul? Okay, well, it's gonna get crazier. Because then Charlie gets a call from a woman named Jessica Hahn. Jessica drops a bombshell. She says that Jim Baker raped her. Jessica tells Charlie that in November of 1980, she flew from New York to Florida to attend Jim's telethon. She was 20 years old at the time, and she worked as a secretary at a church. She loved watching Jim and Tammy on TV. And she thought that they were, quote, "the closest thing to heaven." So when she gets to the telethon, she's eager to help them out. She even agrees to take care of their kids for an afternoon. But once she gets to the hotel room to watch the kids,
32:11 Scaachi Koul? she finds Jim there, along with his friend and fellow evangelist, John Wesley Fletcher. Then, according to Jessica, John offers her Vaseline lotion and tells her, "Jim likes back rubs." Jim allegedly takes the bedspread off the bed, pulls her over to him, and has sex with her. Jessica tries to push Jim away, protesting that she's a virgin. Jim later contests the rape allegation, saying that the sex was consensual. Charlie is horrified, but he's also intrigued. He knows that this will be a huge story. The thing that might finally make Jim and Tammy's followers care about their misdeeds. If only he can confirm it's true.
32:53 Scaachi Koul? After months of digging, he finally tracks down a paper trail showing that Jim paid Jessica $265,000. He put it on the books as construction costs for the Passion Play amphitheater. But it really looks like hush money. Charlie knows he has enough to publish the story, but his editors are waffling, worried about liability. So he does everything in his power to push the piece through. He begs each editor one by one. He even threatens to quit if they don't let him publish it. And eventually, they give in. The last step is asking Jim to comment on the allegations. Like any intrepid reporter, Charlie worries about getting scooped by someone from a different paper.
33:37 Scaachi Koul? He spent more than a year of his life working on stories about PTL, and he doesn't want it all to go to waste. But it doesn't occur to him that he might get scooped by Jim Baker himself. On March 19th, 1987, before Charlie can even publish the story he's been working so hard on, Jim abruptly resigns from PTL. To explain his resignation, Jim claims that he's exhausted from dealing with The Observer, which has, quote, "attacked us incessantly for the past 12 years." And now, he says, he knows a new attack is coming. Jim doesn't mention Jessica by name, but he does say, quote, "I categorically deny that I've ever sexually assaulted or harassed anyone.
34:20 Scaachi Koul? I sorrowfully acknowledge that seven years ago, in an isolated incident, I was wickedly manipulated by treacherous former friends and then colleagues who victimized me with the aid of a female confederate. They conspired to betray me into a sexual encounter at a time of great stress in my marital life." The next day, Charlie publishes a front-page story about Jim's resignation and details Jessica's allegations. The scandal instantly blows up. It becomes a huge national story, and it stays in the headlines for months.
34:52 Sarah Hagi? You know, no one writes a check for $200,000 to someone because they had a normal, consensual affair. Like, it's so crazy to me that he's trying to make it seem like that's what happened when it clearly isn't. Religious leaders have affairs all the time. It would have been an amazing redemption story if people found out he had an affair and was like, hey, I got caught, I'm human, we all are. Give me more money. And you know what I mean? It's just like, it's so evil.
35:23 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, it's pretty monstrous to try to make it seem like the worst part of this story is like some consensual affair. But in reality, Jim knows he's in deep shit. He even appoints a super conservative preacher, Jerry Falwell, to take his place at PTL. Jerry, you might remember, is the founder of Liberty University, and he's been building a coalition called the Moral Majority, recruiting evangelicals who are pro segregation and anti-abortion. Jerry has been Jim's competitor up to this point. They both want to be the most popular Christian media figure in the country. But Jim thinks that Jerry can shepherd PTL through this turmoil. He also thinks it's a temporary arrangement for optics.
36:08 Scaachi Koul? But what he doesn't know is that Jerry never intends to let him come back.
36:15 Scaachi Koul? After a few months of relative silence, Jim and Tammy sit for that hour-long interview with Ted Koppel on Nightline. Remember that from the beginning of our episode?
36:24 Sarah Hagi? Yes, that is the one where he just keeps reciting Bible verses instead of answering any actual question.
36:30 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, correct. Well, things only get worse for Jim and Tammy from there. A month later, PTL files for bankruptcy. It eventually gets sold to a real estate developer for half of what it's worth. By the end of the summer of 1987, a federal grand jury gets sworn in specifically to investigate Jim, Tammy, and their associates for possible mail and wire fraud. Then, about six months later, The Charlotte Observer wins a Pulitzer Prize for public service for exposing Jim and Tammy's fraud. And a month after that, the IRS strips PTL of its tax-exempt status. And with this news, what few donations were still trickling in dry up fast.
37:10 Scaachi Koul? Now, the federal government can start collecting back taxes going back 15 years. It adds up to $62 million. But worst of all, in December 1988, Jim and a former vice president of PTL are charged with 24 counts of mail fraud, wire fraud, and conspiracy. Tammy escapes any charges. She was never in control of PTL's finances, so she can't be held liable for them. But she is completely caught up in Jim's public fall from grace. In a matter of months, the bakers have lost their jobs, their reputations, and their empire. But Jim is about to go through a highly public trial, and he still has more to lose.
37:55 Scaachi Koul? It's August 30th, 1989, and Jim is on trial for fraud and conspiracy. His former employees are being called to the stand, and their testimonies against him are brutal. His former personal aide tells the court that Jim felt he, quote, "lived shabbily compared to other ministers and wanted to have 10 homes." Steve, PTL's former vice president for world outreach, is even more explicit about Jim's wrongdoing. He testifies that he told Jim he was overselling Time Share as in Heritage USA back in 1985, and that Jim just ignored him. But Steve is clearly overwhelmed by the situation. The southern heat is intense, and this scandal has dragged on for years.
38:37 Scaachi Koul? And on top of all that, he feels guilty for betraying the man who used to be his religious role model. He starts looking pale and sweaty partway through his testimony, and before he can finish, he passes out right there on the stand. Jim gets a nudge from his lawyer, because this is the perfect opportunity to show off Jim's Christian goodwill. So he rushes to Steve's side, takes his hand, and starts praying. He even manages to conjure up some of his signature tears. It's really intense, and by the end of the day, the paramedics are wheeling Steve out of the courthouse on a stretcher so they can take him to the hospital.
39:17 Sarah Hagi? This is happening in court?
39:19 Scaachi Koul? Yeah. And things only get more dramatic from there. The next morning, when Jim's psychiatrist walks into the office, he finds Jim lying on the floor with his head under a couch. He says that he's hiding from people who are out to get him, whimpering about how scared he is. In short, he is a total mess. That afternoon, his psychiatrist asks for him to be sent to a private hospital so he can get treatment for these hallucinations, and the judge is forced to suspend the trial.
39:51 Sarah Hagi? I mean, this is just so nuts. Like, they can't do anything normally.
39:56 Scaachi Koul? OK, well, there's another thing. Because a short while later, there is a full-on natural disaster. Hurricane Hugo sweeps through Charlotte, which leaves many jurors without water or power. The judge suspends the trial yet again. The problems are just nonstop, almost like God is swooping in to save Jim from his own fate. But Jim can't stop the inevitable arrival of his verdict. Next time in the finale of our two-part series, Jim will have to answer to a jury of his peers, and Tammy will go solo, undergoing a revival of biblical proportions.
40:39 Scaachi Koul? Follow Scamfluencers on the Audible app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to all episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free by joining Audible. This is Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, The God Fraud, Part One. I'm Sachi Cole.
40:52 Sarah Hagi? And I'm Sarah Haggie. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us at [email protected] . And a reminder that our Scamfluencers merch store is now live at wonderyshop.com. We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were the New York Times article, "For Jim and Tammy Baker: Excess Wiped Out a Rapid Climb to Success", by William E. Schmidt; the Washington Post article, "The Jessica Hahn Tape", by Art Harris; the book, "PTL: The Rise and Fall of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker's Evangelical Empire", by John Wigger; and of course, Charlie Shepherd's reporting for The Charlotte Observer. This episode contained descriptions of sexual assault.
41:37 Sarah Hagi? If you or someone you know is looking for resources, call the National Sexual Assault Hotline at 1-800-656-HOPE. That's 1-800-656-4673.
41:52 Scaachi Koul? This episode. Additional writing by us, Sachi Cole and Sarah Hackey. Sarah Enni is our story editor and producer, and Eric Thurm is our story editor. Fact checking by Gabrielle Drole. Sound design by James Morgan. Additional audio assistance provided by Adrian Tapia. Our music supervisor is Stoff Alaskas for Freeze on Sync. Our coordinating producer is Desi Blaylock, and our managing producer is Matt Gant. Janine Cornolo and Stephanie Jens are our development producers. Our associate producers are Charlotte Miller and Lexi Peary. Our producers are John Reed, Yasmin Ward, and Kate Young. Our senior producers are Ginny Bloom and Jen Swan. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marsha Louis, and Erin O'Flaherty. For Wondery.
42:40 Scaachi Koul? Journalist Tristan Redman goes where no son-in-law should ever go. Deep into his wife's family history, digging up the cold case of who murdered her great-grandmother. Because, I should mention, he thinks the murderer might actually be the beloved family patriarch. For the best binge-watch series, like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
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