540 | Dislike Owning

The Minimalists talk about letting go of sentimental items you rarely use, some of the things we dislike owning, sustainable products for your home, six tiny habits that prevent a messy home, and more. Discussed in this episode: How can I part with my father's prized possession that I rarely use? (4:05) Is there anything you own that you dislike owning? (14:27) Right Here, Right Now: Play the 30-Day Minimalism Game. (29:46) WWJO: Durable everyday items built to last. (32:04) Have a question for the show? Call 406-219-7839 or email a voice memo to [email protected]. Listen to the full Maximal episode on Patreon: patreon.com/theminimalists http://patreon.com/theminimalists Detailed show notes: minimalists.com/podcast http://minimalists.com/podcast

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  Every little thing you think that you need. Every little thing you think that you need. Every little thing that's just feeding your greed. Oh, I bet that you'll be fine without it.

• 0:38Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yes, the minimalists. Joshua Fields, Millburn here. TK Coleman over there. I'm wearing some glasses today. A couple of reasons. One is I'm pretty tired. We've been traveling all over the place. We just got back from Tennessee yesterday. Nick Ademus and I were out there doing a 10th anniversary screening of minimalism. And so my eyes are a bit strained, but also I'm going to be using these glasses later on during the question of the week. But first, TK, here's something to chew on. Clutter accumulates whenever unconsciousness persists. You know, it seems to me that clutter can't exist in a place of full awareness. Am I crazy for thinking this?

• 1:21Speaker 02

  No, I don't think so. To be mindful, to be intentional, is to, if I may, vibrate at a frequency that is incompatible with clutter. It makes me think about something Frederick Douglass said, where he says, he says, "Once you learn to read, you will become forever free." And "Knowledge makes a man unfit to be a slave." There's something about knowing who you are, growing into yourself, that just makes you less docile and less willing to accept a standard of living that is below you. In an analogous way, being intentional, becoming aware of what you really want, becoming aware

• 2:04Speaker 02

  of your why, thinking about your space, not just by, you know, being on autopilot, but thinking about it in terms of how does this fit into what my life, what I want my life to be about, it makes you unfit for clutter.

• 2:16Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I love that. Because what you're saying here is... Clutter is beneath you. Sometimes literally it's beneath you. If you walk around your house, you're stepping on the kids' toys, or, oh crap, I left a pillow there on the floor, a blanket, or there's a pile of mail on the counter. Clutter is literally beneath me. But also, the best or healthiest version of me, the healthiest expression of me, doesn't live with clutter, doesn't want clutter, doesn't want anything that gets in the way. Of course, clutter is perspectival. I wrote this essay recently, I don't have it here in front of me, but I published it in the Simple Newsletter. And the title of it was Necessary Jewelry. And I got to thinking, like, twisting around these words made me think, like, okay, is there a such thing as necessary jewelry?

• 3:01Speaker 02

  That's a good book title, by the way.

• 3:03Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Right? And so, you can find it at theminimalists.com now. I think it's just theminimalists.com/jewelry, probably. But Necessary Jewelry, but the first line of it was, Necessary Jewelry doesn't exist. But that doesn't make jewelry bad. It's just unnecessary. And then I go into the essay talking about, I own a lot of unnecessary things. And that's kind of what I want to talk to you about today. Coming up on this episode, we're talking about letting go of sentimental items that you rarely use. Also, some of the things we dislike owning, and sustainable products for your home, and so

• 3:43Joshua Fields Millburn?

  much more. Plus, on page three, TK, I've got six tiny habits that prevent a messy home for you. All right, let's start with our callers, 406-219-7839, if you'd like to join the program, or you can just send a voice recording right from your phone to [email protected]. Let us know if you're a Patreon subscriber, so we can prioritize your message. Our first question today is from Marie.

• 4:08Speaker 03

  Hi, this is Marie from Phoenixville, Pennsylvania. I have a question for The Minimalist. What do you do when you have your dad's prized possession, which was passed down to you, which is an antique car that is absolutely beautiful, but I only get to drive it two to three times a year? And I'm having a hard time even thinking about parting with it, because it really was my dad's pride and joy.

• 4:45Speaker 03

  So how do you move past it and maybe sell the car? When it's something that was a very, very cherished possession of your dad's? And it would be like giving away a little piece of him. One of the last pieces that you have left. What's your advice on that? Thank you.

• 5:13Joshua Fields Millburn?

  TK, do you have any observations for Maria? She's struggling to let go of her late father's prized possession. And it was something that added tremendous value to his life. But it sounds like she rarely used it. So she's probably not getting nearly as much value from it as he did.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  You know, I think about two reasons why you might want to leave something to behind for the people you love. One is because it's valuable. You believe they will find value in it. And you want your people to experience the value that you fought for or created. But the second reason is even though they may not find value in it as you did, you entrust it into their care because you know that they will honor you by seeing to it that something is done with it that would respect your priorities. I think about certain books in my collection. They're rare books.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  I spent a lot of time looking for it. And then it's like bam, I found it in a certain used bookstore in another state, you know, by chance. And it's not just something I can go on Amazon and get this rare edition. And my wife isn't into those books. She doesn't care anything about them. And if I were to die, I don't have a particular individual in mind that would value them. But I want it to be entrusted into her care because she cares enough about me to where she's not just gonna throw it in the garbage can. She'll do something with it that will make it more likely that it will get in the hands of the right person.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  I'm not so sure that your father is on the other side, looking at you, thinking, "I can't believe she doesn't value this as much as I do." Chances are, this was already known during his lifetime. Because you don't have to announce that you're not into something. If you're into it, you get the joke. You laugh without anybody asking you to laugh. You don't have to raise your hand and let anybody know. You respond to it in a way that exhibits that kind of passion. And so I would look at this not as, "He gave this to me so that I can keep, and if I let it go, I'm betraying him." But rather, "He entrusted it to my care.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  He respects me enough to make me the steward of it, so that I can deal with it respectfully."

• 7:49Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And as a steward, we recognize that you don't preserve the people you love by preserving all of their possessions. And obviously, that's not where Marie is right now. She's not trying to let go of everything or hold on to everything. There's one item in particular, and this was a prized possession for her father. And she doesn't prize it the same way. And the thing I would talk about, and it's a sort of an echo of what you just said, is almost no one will prize it as much as your father. And if we're waiting to find the person who will prize it just as much as your father, you're going to hold on to it forever. But that's not the way to honor the dead through clinging.

• 8:29Joshua Fields Millburn?

  In fact, in a way, clinging is a way to accidentally disrespect the dead if we're not careful with it. And so practically, where do you think she goes from here?

• 8:41Speaker 02

  Well, I'm not so sure that she'd fail at finding someone who is excited about it. I don't think someone's going to be in the market for that car just because they need a way to get to work.

• 8:55Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yes.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  That kind of car is a significant investment, no matter what the price is, in terms of the maintenance, the upkeep, what happens when something breaks down. That's a big investment. The type of person that's going to invest in that car. Is into that car. And there are a lot of people out there that are really into cars, that are into those types of cars. And that are a lot like your father. If your father was here, he'd probably be able to tell you exactly who those people are and where to find them. Unfortunately, he's not here, but I do believe there are people like that that are out here. And there's something about transferring something to a person who looks at it and goes, oh, my gosh, why are you giving this away? This is beautiful. That's the person you want. And I think that would feel so much better if you can get it into the hands of someone like that.

• 9:42Speaker 02

  As far as holding on to dad. I think about your oft quoted line from the documentary.

• 9:52Speaker 02

  Our memories live in ourselves, not in our things, right?

• 9:58Speaker 02

  But sometimes things can be a way to jog the memory, to to make us feel connected. What I would do is I would see if there's something from the car that I could take. That wouldn't undermine its value.

• 10:12Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  You don't have to keep the entire car in order to hold on to a part of it that symbolizes something important to you. When I used to work at an assisted living facility, there was a guy there who had a wall full of license plates. And every license plate was from a place that he visited. And that was his token that he collected to signify I went there. That was like his way of planting the flag. And he would, every time he, you know, I was in his room, he'd tell me like to point at one. And this was one of the ways we spent time together. I just randomly point to one of the license plates on the wall. And he would have to tell me a story from that experience. And it was a great way to connect. You could take the license plate.

• 10:54Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah.

• 10:55Speaker 02

  Or something else along those lines that not everything that is in or on that car has to be sold with the car.

• 11:02Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And I suspect you probably have pictures of him in the car or with the car, most likely. If not, you can still take pictures of the car like I did with many of my mom's things. Because that's when I realized, oh, yeah, the memories are not in the things. The memories are in us. And so I need to hold on to the things to preserve. The memories and also there are many memories I don't want to preserve. I'm not trying to cling to the painful or traumatic or sometimes even harmful memories from the past. And so letting go also allows us to let go of some of those more painful memories that can haunt us. The possessions can haunt us, but they haunt us because of the memories and the way that we remember them and the way that they they sort of force

• 11:44Joshua Fields Millburn?

  us to cling. And then, of course, it creates all this emotional clutter on the other side of that. And that's where where I could even hear it in Marie's voice where it's, oh, yeah, how do I, how do I part with this? And I mean, practically, I bet your father was part of some sort of car club or group. And I bet you there's someone in that group that's either interested in the car or who's willing to point you in the right direction. And if that's the case, great, I would go that route first. And if not, you can simply do an internet search for other people who are enthusiasts for this type of car. And by the way, this isn't limited only to cars. If you were grandfather, father, mother, sister,

• 12:24Joshua Fields Millburn?

  someone in your life passed something down to you that is valuable to other people, then there are whole communities that that circle around the joy that those things amplify inside them. I in that essay I mentioned earlier, the unnecessary jewelry essay, one of the things I talked about was how there are many things that get in the way for me. That's junk or clutter or whatever you want to call it. That's why I don't own a bunch of camping gear anymore. I don't own any camping gear personally. There are plenty of things I don't own anymore that I don't think are wrong. They're just wrong for me. They're wrong for my life, the way that I live my life. The camping gear doesn't work.

• 13:05Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I don't have a wristwatch. I certainly don't have any of the expensive ones that I used to have, but I don't think those are wrong either. In fact, someone else, there's some deep sea diver, if I let go of the Rolex that I don't want, that he may enjoy that or just a collector enthusiast. Same with the camping gear. There's an outdoorsman somewhere who will really enjoy the tent that I no longer use. And instead of keeping it in my attic or in a storage closet, I'm simply letting it go to add value to other people's lives. And that's ultimately what your father would want. He want want you to exhibit the spirit of generosity. And we can only do that if we're willing to let go. You know what? Speaking of emotional clutter, I'd love for you to grab a copy. It's free.

• 13:51Joshua Fields Millburn?

  It's called Emotional Clutter. TK wrote this beautiful book. It's an ebook which you can pick up for free over at theminimalists.com. Or if you want the audiobook version, you can get that as well, and I'd be happy to send that to you. And if you're interested, and it sounds like you're dealing with a lot of emotional clutter, of course, the physical clutter, or maybe there's some other type of clutter that you're dealing with, whether it's identity clutter or relationship clutter, the minimalist can help. You can sign up for a clutter counseling session over at theminimalists.com. Just click Counseling at the top, and you can book an appointment from anywhere in the world. Before we get back to our callers, TK, let's declutter the question of the week. This week it is, is there anything you own that you dislike owning?

• 14:37Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Is there anything you own that you dislike owning? Let's check in with our Patreon community chat. Whitney says, "I dislike that I have to own so much medical equipment. Non-invasive vent, wheelchair, walker, a month's stock of medical supplies for feeding, the list goes on and on. They're all medically necessary, but they all require storage and maintenance." TK, speaking of storage and maintenance, I wrote down this minimal maxim for Whitney here. "Every possession screams a silent demand." And I think it's true. When we walk into a cluttered space, or just any space, we know

• 15:20Joshua Fields Millburn?

  that our things demand something of us. Is this a paradox? There are certain things that we dislike owning, but we also dislike not owning them in a way. Like, obviously, she doesn't like the fact that she has to own all of this medical equipment, but life sounds like it'd be worse off if you didn't own it.

• 15:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, there are always two aspects. There's the result and then there's the process. When we're lucky, we get to love them both. But it's often the case that we can only love one of them. There are some results that we absolutely love, but we just don't really like the process. And there are some processes that we absolutely love, but we don't like those results. And that's the tension of life, right? Can I exercise self-control in those areas where I love the process, but I don't like the results they're producing? And can I discipline myself when I hate the process, but I love the result? It reminds me of an old saying that a champion is someone who's willing to do what he hates in order to create what he loves. We don't always have to do that,

• 16:27Speaker 02

  but sometimes we have to do that. And hopefully, we can learn to hate it a little less. Hopefully, we can learn to develop a sense of appreciation and gratitude and say, in my ideal world, I wouldn't have to deal with these painkillers. I wouldn't have to deal with this wheelchair. But this is the world that I live in now, and I choose to look at these things as an investment I am making in myself. These things are my support structure.

• 16:53Joshua Fields Millburn?

  There are many things that I own, many things I rely on that I dislike the fact that I rely on them. In fact, the pithy answer I wrote down for the question of the week is, ownership is obligation in disguise. And so when we own something, we buy something, it ends up owning us, as Chuck Polynick famously said, the things we own end up owning us. And I think that's a bit of what Whitney is experiencing here, but also recognizing that these things give me the freedom to do other things that I want to do. Like, I dislike the fact that I rely so much on having a car, a vehicle. But I live in Ojai, and it actually adds tremendous value to my life. So I've accepted the fact that I need a car

• 17:36Joshua Fields Millburn?

  to get from point A to point B. I have these reading glasses on right now. I dislike the fact that I rely on them, but they help me read the words that are on the page in front of me, right? I might dislike the fact that I have to rely on them, but the truth is, I do. And we all rely on some things. We all rely on community and people. There are things that we must rely on in order to live a meaningful life. I have an ice bath at home. I hate the fact that I need to have an ice bath at home. And I don't like getting every time I get into it, I dislike it, but I do like the results, even if I don't like the process. What I've done is I've helped form a sort of détente with the process and find ways, okay, how can I enjoy this? Nicodemus and

• 18:21Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I were just in Franklin recently, Franklin, Tennessee, and not Franklin, Ohio, which is right next to where I grew up, but Franklin, Tennessee. And there was some lady in the audience who was talking about letting go of of her daughter's things. My daughter's store is a bunch of things at our house. She's moved out now. She's an adult. And of course, don't just steal her things and throw them out or donate them. You want to give her the dignity of being able to deal with this on her own. But part of that dignity is forcing, not forcing, but giving her the option to remove these things before you do. And because ultimately, if some stranger in that crowd gave this lady a bunch of clutter for her house, she wouldn't accept it. She wouldn't hold on to it for a long period

• 19:05Joshua Fields Millburn?

  of time. The reason she's holding on to it right now is because she doesn't want to disappoint her daughter. She doesn't want to upset her daughter, or she doesn't want to create tension in the relationship. But of course, tension is going to occur in all really close relationships. So the thing that I asked the lady to talk about was, okay, instead of saying, how do I avoid the tension in my relationship? How will this conversation make the relationship better? How will this improve my relationship with my daughter by having this tense, difficult conversation? And quite often, our relationships do improve in those moments of tension, because that is the place from which we grow the

• 19:46Joshua Fields Millburn?

  most. Our next question, or actually, next comment here is from Courtney. She said, I dislike cords. Amen, Courtney. I dislike cords, too. I need everything to be wirelessly charged, but it doesn't work that way, at least not yet. She said, why is there a 5,000 to one ratio for cords and devices? I don't like how they take away from a clear aesthetic and how it takes work to keep track of what goes with what. TK, without our cords, our devices get drained. But if we have too many cords, we feel drained by the visual clutter. That's not a minimal maxim, but I thought it would work well here. I did write down a maxim for Courtney.

• 20:29Joshua Fields Millburn?

  If something repeatedly drains you, it belongs somewhere else. Sometimes that's a different location in the home. Like if the cords are just strewn all throughout your living room and you're tripping on them, that's a problem. They're clutter because of where they are and the context. Or maybe they're just clutter for your life in general, and so they belong somewhere else as in a place outside of your home.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  And it takes a lot of creativity to figure out how to hide the cords that you need, because sometimes depending on how your apartment or your home, your rooms are set up, that flat screen, whatever it may be, that record player, the best place for it to go requires that cord to be something that you look at and you're just like, oh my gosh. You seem to be a genius at hiding cords. So what are some tips you would have for that?

• 21:18Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Be willing to pay the cost of hiding them. You mentioned the flat, like I went 12 years without owning a television at home. And so I never needed to hide any TV cords. And so I didn't have to pay that. I didn't even think about a TV cord because I didn't own a TV. When we moved to Ojai, we finally bought a television and put it up on the wall. And part of that was we also had to drill the appropriate holes and run it, yeah, put the outlets in. We had an electrician come out to do that. And so it was a one-time cost that I knew would continue to pay off because I know I didn't want to see some sort of cord running up to the television. So now it's all hidden behind a wall. And when it comes to my desk, it's the same thing. I buy some little tiny clamps that I put on the bottom of my desk and I hide all of

• 22:03Joshua Fields Millburn?

  the cords, so they're completely out of sight. And they're organized in a way that even if I do see them, it doesn't feel like It feels appropriately organized. And the other thing I do is, she's right, there's 5,000 to one. At least it feels that way. Every device I have, there's 5,000 cords. Which one, which of those can I let go of? And if I, if I pull them out of a drawer, I say, I don't even know what this goes to. The same if you own a key and you don't know what it goes to is the cords. Like, oh, I have a cord for an old BlackBerry phone I haven't had in 12 years. I think I can let that go. Or I have a cord for an old iPad that I don't own anymore and I don't even have a use for this lightning cable.

• 22:43Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I can generally let that go. I'm not going to hold on to these just in case. Most of the cords we hold on to are just in case items that you can certainly let go of.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  Hey, I don't think most people know that the reason you don't own a TV is because you read that verse in the Bible that says, "If thy television cord offendeth thee, plucketh out the TV."

• 23:04Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Tweet that Savvy D. Actually, please don't.

• 23:09Joshua Fields Millburn?

  All right, one more from Lauren here. She says, "I dislike my phone. I hate how much I rely on it. I genuinely feel like I can't get through the day without it. I use it for paperwork, work, communication, emails, calculator, map, research, notes. I feel like I spend a lot of time being anxious about where it is at all times." TK, does this resonate with you?

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. You've heard me talk a lot about the light phone and the get rid of my smartphone project. You know, some people are just really great at fighting those battles and continuing to be the person that they want to be while they fight those battles. And for all those people, I say, man, that's great. That's great. There are some of us out there though, who lose ourselves, even if we win certain fights. And we have to think about how to approach life in a different way. How to stop wasting my time engaging those battles altogether, how to opt out of the fight. And that's my take on the smartphone. I'm sure there are just a number of ways to do it.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  And I've received a lot of emails like, you can do this, you can download these apps and you can, you know, minimize your smartphone, this and that. And it's like, yeah, man. That's a battle I don't even want to fight.

• 24:30Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:31Joshua Fields Millburn?

  The things we keep eventually keep us.

• 24:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:34Joshua Fields Millburn?

  In a way, they keep a grip on us. And I think there's nothing more insidious than the ultimate multipurpose tool. The Swiss Army knife of technology is your smartphone. And it's so great. Professor Sean's here today. He forgot his computer, but guess what? He has his phone, so he can do, I don't know what, 50%, 60% of what he needs to do right now with a phone. And I think that's helpful, right? And so it is a tool. But I also think about my tools. If I had to carry around my hammer all day and it was constantly giving me notifications.

• 25:07Speaker 02

  Somebody could call you on your hammer.

• 25:12Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Now, that's interesting. If someone could call you on your hammer, would you get rid of your smartphone and just keep the hammer with you?

• 25:18Speaker 02

  Imagine a future where when someone's trying to get ahold of you, they can just try any device. I think he's wearing that T-shirt today. Let me just call his shoes.

• 25:26Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Oh.

• 25:29Joshua Fields Millburn?

  That's interesting. The farther you take the multipurpose tool, the more it becomes a dystopian sort of future. And by the way, a Swiss Army knife doesn't work very well. There's a reason that almost no one carries a Swiss Army knife. It has all of these little tools, a little bottle opener on it. It has a corkscrew opener. It has a knife. It has nail clippers. It has all of these little pair of scissors. When's the last time you had a Swiss Army knife, TK?

• 25:54Speaker 02

  Hmm. When Scottie Pippen played for the Bulls.

• 26:00Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Scottie Pippen Senior you're talking about, right?

• 26:03Speaker 02

  That's right. Oh, man, I feel so old.

• 26:06Joshua Fields Millburn?

  How about you listeners? Is there anything that you own that you dislike owning? Let us know your thoughts in the comments. All right, I got my minimal maxim out of the way, TK. Let's see what you've got for us. By the way, you can find this episode's maxims in the show notes over at theminimalists.com/podcast and every minimal maxim ever at minimalmaxims.com. We'll also deliver our weekly show notes directly to your inbox every Monday if you sign up for our free email newsletter. It's called the simple newsletter. And there's a brief minimalist tip or insight that I have about something I'm struggling with in my own life or something I'm trying to work out mentally, like the necessary jewelry thing. I send you a quick essay every week. No spam, no junk, no noise, no advertisements, just a little bit more of less.

• 26:48Joshua Fields Millburn?

  You can subscribe to that email newsletter at theminimalists.com. All right, give me something pithy, TK. Is there anything you own that you dislike owning?

• 26:58Speaker 02

  No.

• 26:59Joshua Fields Millburn?

  That is pithy.

• 27:02Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And no, it's a complete sentence.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  That's pithy AF, man. Hey, here's something. If you can't discard it, deconstruct it.

• 27:11Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Ooh.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  We can put that another way and say, if you can't declutter your stuff, declutter the self-defeating beliefs and behavior patterns that you have around the stuff. Sometimes, we just can't change the outer things, at least not immediately.

• 27:28Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Right.

• 27:28Speaker 02

  Sometimes, we are stuck for some time in that apartment, in that home, in that job, and we want to be somewhere else. That doesn't mean we have to refuse to be grateful and to emphasize the positive aspects and to do the interior work of finding the healthiest perspective we can access. You know, sometimes we say, "I refuse to be happy until I get that new job or until I get that new place or move to that new city or get rid of this stuff." But you can still choose to be happy, not because of that stuff. "You want me to be happy with this job?" No, I don't want you to be happy with this job. I want you to be happy in spite of the fact that this is your job.

• 28:09Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah.

• 28:09Speaker 02

  And substitute the word happy, substitute the word healthy for happy here. No matter where you are and what you're dealing with, if you can't just get rid of the things that are weighing you down or holding you back, deconstruct it by stepping back and saying, "Well, hey, look, is there anything good holding me here? This isn't perfect, but it is a means by which I can pay my bills. It is an expression of my power to change things. And it does give me the opportunity to learn some new skills and to meet some new people. I have the permission to create something better over time. I have the permission to stay open to new possibilities. I have the permission to keep brainstorming ways that I can minimize this junk. But if I gotta keep it right now,

• 28:54Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna sacrifice my peace or my health or my access to my creativity in the name of living from a state of protest."

• 29:07Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yes, living from a state of protest is a great way to put it. I think about this with my 12-year-old daughter. She will often protest, especially when it comes to doing her nightly reading. "I don't want to read." I said, "I know you don't, but what would make it a bit more fun?"

• 29:24Joshua Fields Millburn?

  What would make you want to do it a little bit more? Not that you'd be so excited about it that you're jumping for joy, but what would make it like it a little bit more? What would make it a little more fun for you? And that's an important question to ask about anything that I'm also complaining about or protesting. Okay, I know that this is not ideal, but what would make it a little bit more fun right now? How can I enjoy this a bit more? Speaking of that, for the Right Here, Right Now segment, a new month is here, TK. And so the beginning of summer is here. And that is often the best time to play the 30-day minimalism game. We've had tens of thousands of people play the minimalism game. It's free to play. You can find all the details over at theminimalists.com/game.

• 30:07Joshua Fields Millburn?

  It's a way to take something really boring, something you might protest, like decluttering, like cleaning out your closet. You know how people protest to me, just when we see them in the hug line at the live event? Like, "I'd like to get started, but I don't even want to deal with..." Yeah, I get it. It's kind of boring, or it kind of sucks to declutter, especially when you feel overwhelmed by it. And so it's about starting somewhere. The minimalism game allows you to start anywhere in your house. I often recommend starting in the bedroom or the living room because those are the places you spend the most time, maybe even your kitchen, if you want to start in any of those places. Don't start with the really difficult stuff that's hidden in your basement or attic. You'll get there eventually. We want you to get that momentum. And so the 30-day minimalism game basically says you partner up with someone, a friend,

• 30:48Joshua Fields Millburn?

  a family member, a coworker, and at the beginning of the month, which is right around the corner, you agree to get rid of one item on the first day. Just one, any item. You have one item for sure that you're willing to let go of right now. Okay, the only rule is you have to get it out of the house by the end of the day. So it starts off really easy. Day two, you get rid of two items. Day three, three items. Day four, four items, so forth and so on. Gets you that momentum you need. By day 15, it's like, "Oh, my God, I have to get rid of 15 items a day and then 16 items tomorrow?" And so the longer you go, the more difficult it gets, but you've built up that musculature. So in a way, it's still easier than if you try to get rid of 490 things on the first day. But if you make it to the end of the month, then you win because, well...

• 31:33Joshua Fields Millburn?

  You've gotten rid of almost 500 items, and that's a really good start. So whoever goes the longest wins. You can bet whatever you want, a meal, a million dollars, whatever you want to bet with someone in your household. And it's just some friendly competition, really. And so I've seen thousands of people simplify their lives through the 30-day minimalism game. You can play for free and also download the free minimalism game calendar and follow along over at theminimalists.com/game. Before we get to page two, let's do a what would Joshua own question. This one is from Emma.

• 32:10Speaker 04

  Hi, minimalists. My name is Emma, and I am from the suburbs of Chicago and a Patreon subscriber. I had a question for the minimalists and a question for the community. For the minimalists, I was wondering if you could discuss the quality of products that are made nowadays and your opinions. It feels like people are consuming more products because they're not made to last. And it seems like you have to do a ton of research in order to find a product that isn't made cheaply, which can be a little bit frustrating. And then my question for the community is if people have any good recommendations for everyday items that will last for decade. Any insight into this topic would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

• 32:56Joshua Fields Millburn?

  All right, TK. So Emma is searching for some durable everyday items that are built to last, right? She doesn't want the cheap things she constantly has to replace. And the first thing I think about is the heuristic that I try to live by most of the time, which is when in doubt, go without. And that's really helpful for me because I often think about, oh, what should I buy for X? Like, what deodorant should I buy? Or what cologne should I buy? What fabric softener should I buy? What loofah should I buy?

• 33:31Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Well, I don't own any of those things now because I'm like, ah, maybe I don't actually need that. I can go without. You have permission to go without. If you temporarily deprive yourself and you feel like it is true deprivation, you also have permission to go back to trying the loofah or the deodorant or the cologne or whatever else. I opted out of many of those things and I just didn't go back. There are some things that I'll remove from my life for a period of time and I'll say, oh, I kind of missed that, which reminds me of this bonus talk aboutable. We usually do these talk aboutables on page three, but one of my favorite poets, his name is Trev Kaminsky, and he had this little video I want to run by you. Let me set it up for you. Happiness is found in the simplest things. Check this out.

• 34:16Speaker 05

  So this is a list of things that I wrote this morning that have recently made me happy. And I thought I'd share down here. Number one being just roasted carrots. Two, switching back from pens to pencils after all these years. For some reason, it feels like sobering up. Three, sharpening said pencils. Feels like getting drunk. Four, turning off the apps because I couldn't hear the birds. Five, hearing the birds. Six, buying a VHS tape

• 34:58Speaker 05

  that I don't really need. I can't really use, but I just missed seeing it lying around the house. Seven, lying around the house with it, being lazy and unbothered by it. The kind of lazy that just sort of hangs there and catches light like a still life. And then lastly, number eight, which is crossing things out. That's it.

• 35:35Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I often say that everything a minimalist owns serves a purpose or amplifies their joy. So to that, I say, keep the VHS tape if you enjoy lying around with it. That's totally fine, but let it go if it gets in the way. Okay, back to endless question here.

• 35:57Joshua Fields Millburn?

  She's looking for some durable everyday items and I start with go without if possible. And that's a reset for me. If I owned nothing, would I bring this into my life? There's a, there's a helpful question here. Personally, there's a company I like called Public Goods. For their minimalist soaps and cleaning products, they sell other things too, like deodorant, which I don't use or certain other things. And I think their packaging, I really enjoy their packaging. It's very aesthetically pleasing. It's aggressively minimalist, which I like. And I pulled this mission statement from their website and it says, quote, "At Public Goods, we believe in a life that is seamless, thoughtful and beautifully simple.

• 36:38Joshua Fields Millburn?

  We started with a vision to create home essentials that not only work better, but feel better in every sense of the word. Essentials that simplify your life, reflect your values and enhance your home without the noise of trends or compromises. We design with purpose, combining minimalist aesthetics, trusted quality and responsible practices to bring you better basics. Every product tells a story of thoughtful design and intentional living, empowering you to focus on what truly matters." Now, I don't know anything about this company and I didn't know this mission statement, so I pulled it out and I have no affiliation to them. I've never talked to anyone from over there, although I guess I do have an affiliation.

• 37:22Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I buy their products from time to time, so I'm a customer of theirs. But I'm also like not. I'm brand agnostic with a lot of things. If they stop adding value, then I'm not going to keep consuming it. I will say that sometimes I just avoid the cleaning products altogether and just use regular old baking soda and white vinegar to clean certain spaces. And to me, that's about as simple as it gets and I don't need to buy a product or rely on a brand. Now TK, if I'm gonna buy something from a company, here's a useful question that I often ask myself to determine whether our values are aligned. And that question is, if I had to apply for a corporate job today, is this the type

• 38:07Joshua Fields Millburn?

  of company I would want to work for? And if so, great. If not, why not? Because it's true that sometimes I'll do business with places I wouldn't want to work, right? But I think it's a great first question for me to ask myself about it's understanding whether or not the values are linked.

• 38:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. Question I ask is, why does the vinegar have to be white?

• 38:29Joshua Fields Millburn?

  All right, I'll start using black vinegar immediately. I'm sorry if I offended you TK.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  We just lost the 100 subscribers.

• 38:42Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Or gained 1,000, who knows? Who knows? All right, well, that is what I do for every day. Home goods, I know it's not the sexiest answer. Usually it's going without. I'll tell you, there's one I buy that I wouldn't want to work for, but it just works the best as I still buy Windex. And I know I've had people on the show, but you've got to try this and you've got to use the newspaper and you do that. Okay, I've tried all the things and I believe you that it works for you and I trust that it works for you. But I own one toxic product in my life and it's called Windex. And they are not a sponsor and obviously they're not. I just called it toxic, so that'd be a great sponsorship.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  Why Windex of all the toxic products?

• 39:28Joshua Fields Millburn?

  It just works better than any other glass cleaner I've ever tried and I have tried a lot. There are some industrial glass cleaners that are just as toxic that work pretty much as well, but for whatever reason. Windex. Also, I grew up in like an impoverished neighborhood and there were always like grandmoles spraying Windex on people's cuts. Like, oh, just put a little Windex on it. I don't recommend that. So I don't use Windex as Neosporin, but it was a thing in the 1980s, growing up.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  I don't think you're supposed to tell the public that.

• 40:00Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Oh, yeah. Bleep that, Savvy D.

• 40:04Joshua Fields Millburn?

  All right, for anyone else who has a, what would Joshua own question for the show? We'd love to hear from you. Also, by the way, listeners, I know Emma was asking if any of you have any of your preferred products, tell us why you like them in the comments on YouTube or Patreon. Maybe there's something you use for your home goods that we haven't considered. You can leave that in the comments, YouTube or Patreon. And for anyone else has a WWJO, what would Joshua own question for our show, just send a voicemail to [email protected] so we can feature your voice on a future episode. Up next, page two and page three. But first, let's take a quick pandiculation break. We'll be right back.

• 40:47Joshua Fields Millburn?

  All right, y'all, that is the first 33% of episode 540. We'll see you on Patreon for the full maximal edition. TK, we had a whole conversation about the what would Joshua own? And you were talking about how we've actually changed quite a bit now that we buy a lot of things online. We, human beings, buy a lot of things online and as opposed to going into the store, that has also changed how we think about the things that we buy. So we had a whole conversation about that. We also answered a bunch more questions. Questions like, Levy is frustrated that his parents use the rare usefulness of their possessions as justification for keeping an overwhelming amount of stuff. They have

• 41:28Joshua Fields Millburn?

  a lot of just in case items. Also, Andrew is struggling to find balance between a fulfilling personal life and a job that feels disconnected from who he is. And meet minimalism. Minimalism's cooler, more eclectic cousin you need in your life. We're going to talk about minimalism on page three. All that, plus a million more questions and simple living segments over on the Minimalist Private Podcast on Patreon. The link is in the description. When you subscribe, you can listen to our private podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Plus, you'll gain access to all of our archives, all the way back to our very first episode in 2015. That's a lot more of less.

• 42:11Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And that is our minimal episode for today. On behalf of Ryan Nicodemus, TK Coleman, Audio Ben, Spire Jeff and Dave, Tom Cat, Professor Sean, Savvy D, and the rest of our team, I'm Joshua Fields Millburn. If you leave here with just one message, let it be this: Love people and use things, because the opposite never works. Thanks for listening, y'all. We'll see you next time.

• 42:37Speaker 02

  Peace.