Let This Guide You In Challenging Times | Ask Daily Stoic

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Ryan Holiday?

  Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, where each day we read a passage of ancient wisdom designed to help you in your everyday life. While on Thursdays, we not only read the daily meditation, but we answer some questions from listeners and fellow Stoics who are trying to apply this philosophy just as you are. Some of these come from my talks. Some of these come from Zoom sessions that we do with Daily Stoic Life members or as part of the challenges. Some of them are from interactions I have on the street when there happened to be someone there recording. Thank you for listening, and we hope this is of use to you.

• 0:43Ryan Holiday?

  Let this guide you in challenging times. He was a young man. It was a challenging time. There was a lot going on in the world. All we know is that sometime in the early 2nd century AD, Junius Rusticus gave Marcus Aurelius a gift, "the remembrances of Epictetus", as Marcus would most gratefully refer to the book that Rusticus gave him, "which he supplied to me out of his own library." How well-worn this copy must have become, how helpful the insights of a former slave must have been to a man who was about to become yoked to incredible responsibility and a crushing burden. Rusticus had taught Marcus to never be satisfied

• 1:28Ryan Holiday?

  with just getting the gist of things he read and encouraged him to read deeply, repeatedly, and forcefully. Considering how many times Marcus quotes Epictetus from memory in meditations, it's likely that he treated this copy of Discourses like a Bible, returning to it time and time again. "We can imagine that Seneca's copies of Zeno, Clianthes, Chrysippus, and Epicurus must have been similarly well-worn. You must linger among a limited number of master thinkers and digest their works", he advised to Lucilius, "if you would derive ideas which shall win firm hold in your mind." A generation before that, someone was introducing Epictetus, then no more than

• 2:11Ryan Holiday?

  a slave to the works of Musonius Rufus. And you could go back further still and sit in a bookstore and watch Xeno washed up from a shipwreck, being introduced to philosophy by way of the works of Socrates. More recently, before the Vietnam War, James Stockdale had an almost identical experience as Marcus when he was given a copy of Epictetus by one of his professors at Stanford. Soon after, in a three-year span, Stockdale spent three seven-month missions in the waters off Vietnam. He was flying in combat near Daily, but "on my bedside table," he said, "no matter what carrier I was aboard, were my Epictetus books." So for thousands of years, that's what the Stoics have been doing, how their books

• 2:56Ryan Holiday?

  were intended to be used, to be kept at hand. And as it happens, this is the tradition that the Daily Stoic, which I was lucky enough to write with my longtime friend and collaborator, Steve Hanselman, that's what the Daily Stoic has been lucky enough to become. Back in 2016, we thought it was pretty remarkable that despite more than 2,000 years of this Stoic tradition of keeping philosophy on us, no one had ever put the best of the Stoics in one book. It's been a pretty incredible and humbling experience to see the success the Daily Stoic has had since its release. You know, it's now sold millions of copies in more than 30 languages. It's been more weeks on the bestseller list than any other book about Stoicism ever. But even better, almost every week, it's one of the most-read

• 3:41Ryan Holiday?

  books on Amazon, meaning that people are actually picking it up and reading it on a daily basis. They've been rereading it on a daily basis now for going on nine years. In celebration of that, and to encourage another year of Stoicism for you and everyone you know, the good news is that the ebook is now $2.99 in the US. It's on sale in the UK also. And that's going to be going on for the next week if you haven't picked one up. It's also why we created a leather edition of the book, because after eight years, some people's hardcovers were already falling apart. Look, Stoicism is designed to be a daily practice, part of our daily routines. It's not a philosophy you read

• 4:23Ryan Holiday?

  once and magically understand at the soul level. No, it's a lifelong pursuit that requires diligence and repetition and concentration.

• 4:31Ryan Holiday?

  Pierre Hidot called this spiritual exercising. That's one of the benefits of the page a day format that we ended up organizing the Stoics into. And it's also the benefit, I think, of the weekly themes in the Daily Stoic Journal. You might hear those episodes on this podcast. It's putting one important thing for you to review, to have at hand and to fully digest each day, not in passing, not sporadically, but every single day over the course of a year, preferably year in and year out. And if Epictetus is right, it's something you're supposed to keep within reach at all times. And that's why I think, humbly, why this collection of greatest hits has been so appealing to people. So here we are, the beginning of a year, just as challenging as any in Mark's religious time.

• 5:13Ryan Holiday?

  And we hope that you'll give the Daily Stoic a chance in print or with the ebook, the audiobook. I also hope, you know, that you'll pick up the Stoic practice of journaling this year. You can grab the Daily Stoic Journal or any other notebook. You can make your own greatest hits of the Stoics and come back to that on a daily basis. That's what a commonplace book is. That's what I do in my own practice. Because, look, if 2025 is anything like 2024, or any year since Epictetus's time, you're going to need it. You can grab the discounted ebook on Amazon or anywhere you get your ebooks. I think you can also just go to dailystoic.com/discount and it'll redirect you.

• 5:55Ryan Holiday?

  Let me see, you can grab a signed leather bound or a signed hardcover. If you want one of those, you can grab that at store.dailystoic.com. I'll link to all this stuff in today's show notes. And I hope you're kicking off 2025 right. I'll talk to y'all soon.

• 6:16Ryan Holiday?

  Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. This might sound a little different than usual. That's because I am in my car on the way to the airport. I just.

• 6:28Ryan Holiday?

  Tried to get some work done at the office and I drove and picked my son up from school, drove him to my other son's school where I met my wife who's taking them home. And I am heading to the airport in Austin. I'm flying to New York tonight and I'm gonna do Tamara Hall, which is like a daytime or a morning television show. It's wonderful. She's been a huge supporter of Daily Stoic and my work over the years. As it happens, she's actually from a small town here in Texas called Bowling. But so I'm heading from Basta to New York City. I might see my sister who just had some medical stuff going on, so I might see my sister. But I've got some edits to do on the plane. I'm editing part two of the Wisdom Book.

• 7:10Ryan Holiday?

  And then I'm gonna do this morning show and I wanted to bring you a chunk of that appearance because we were talking Stoicism, the 10-year anniversary of obstacle and more importantly, how one brings justice into the world. But mostly, although I don't like being gone, I'm only gonna be gone for one sleep, not even 24 hours. I'll land at four tomorrow. I'm taking off at five today. But it has been insanely hot here in Texas, so I'm looking forward to experiencing a few hours of fall while I'm in New York City. I'll probably get a run in at Central Park, do the thing tomorrow. And anyways, here's me talking with Tamara Hall.

• 7:58Ryan Holiday?

  That's the problem. We never say we're never gonna do it. We don't say, "I'm not gonna do it." We say, "I'm gonna do it later." Or we're gonna say, "I'm gonna do it when I have a better chance." In Meditations, Marcus really says, "You could be good today, instead you choose tomorrow." It's actually more pragmatic, I would argue, to do good today while you have the chance.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Welcome back. Today, we are talking about doing the right thing right now based on Ryan Holiday's brilliant new book by the same name. Ryan is still with us. I love that you personalize all of your books, but you talk about this moment in your own life where you looked out and there was trash everywhere. And you were upset. And go through the story of what happened there.

• 8:39Ryan Holiday?

  Well, we're from similar places in Texas. I love living out in the country.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Shout out to Bastrop.

• 8:44Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  Small Texas, rural, small Texas.

• 8:47Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, it's wonderful, except, you know, people dump their trash. There's not as much police presence, so people kind of do what they want. And, you know, I remember driving by this stuff and thinking, no one's going to take care of this. But if at some, it hit me that if I didn't do something about it, after passing it enough times, I was complicit in it being there, right? And...

• 9:13Speaker 01

  I think that's a, you know, I think that's a phenomenal point about the empowerment of complaining versus action.

• 9:20Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, what are you going to do about it?

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:22Ryan Holiday?

  I don't like it, I didn't choose it, it's not my fault. But if I allow it to continue, I am at least complicit in it continuing.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:31Ryan Holiday?

  And so I took care of it, you know, that's what I do.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  Well, you know, I think a lot about that. You know, we both have five-year-olds, and we live in New York City. And my son walks to school every day. And like so many New Yorkers and people who visit us, and around the country, you see someone who's experiencing homelessness. And I've grappled with this conversation of, am I teaching my son to accept that this is life by walking by? Or am I supposed to stop every time a five-year-old and constantly explain to him that this is not just, this is not how we rightfully should treat humans? And I'm so torn, because at the end of the day, he's a five-year-old walking to school, but I don't want him to be a five-year-old who doesn't see a human being.

• 10:14Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 10:19Ryan Holiday?

  When I walk past the beautiful place I live, and it's filled with tires and trash, I don't like it. And then I, but Stoicism is about looking for the opportunity. And the opportunity is, okay, we're, we as a family are going to clean this up. And then we're going to learn, we're going to learn, and we're going to become the people that clean things up. But one of the things Aristotle talks about, which I think is so great, is virtue isn't this thing that you have, that you're born with. It's a thing that you do. You become generous by being generous. You become helpful by being helpful. It's a thing you do.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  So, in that situation of life... You know, with a child especially, because I do think, you know, we're talking about it as adults and we can take this information with us, but a lot of it is what we're passing on and teaching. Whether you're the parent or a teacher or someone who encounters a kid doing bad behavior, you always see the jokes about back in the day, if a kid was doing something wrong, you could walk over and say, "Oh, honey, don't do that. Now, you can't do that." And I highly don't recommend you doing it.

• 11:16Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  But virtue is about what we live, but what we show and teach, because that's what you're trying to do with the book.

• 11:23Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, it's the opportunity and it's a teachable moment for me to raise kids that are not people that dump their trash by the side of the road.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  Let's talk about it in the context of fairness.

• 11:36Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Right, because that is another complicated word. Like, what is just what is fair?

• 11:41Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  It's different. Someone said it's different for everyone. And see, I don't, I try my best never to say, "That's not fair."

• 11:51Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Because it's not, nothing is. I don't think any, it's not fair. First of all, you don't get to pick the parents that bring you in this world. You don't get to pick your zip code.

• 12:00Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  You know, and that, the minute you come out the womb, that starts the race unfair.

• 12:05Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  Depending on, depending on so many things.

• 12:10Ryan Holiday?

  Well, here's the thing. Life is not fair.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  It is not.

• 12:12Ryan Holiday?

  But you can be fair, and I can be fair, and I can try to treat people fairly. So again, let's think about it as something we give.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  What is fairness?

• 12:19Ryan Holiday?

  And something, as opposed to something we get, how we treat people. Do we treat them with, do we treat them the ways that we would want to be treated? There's a reason that every philosophical and religious tradition has some formulation of the golden rule. That's basic fairness. How would I want to be treated, right?

• 12:40Ryan Holiday?

  And so I would agree, the world is unfair, the world is dark, the world is confusing. There's all this stuff happening, but we can be a bright light within that. We control how we treat people, how we pay people. We control what we do. And that's, that's what justice, that's where we should start with justice.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  And I think that's the beautiful part of it. So looking at fairness, you're not looking at how the world defines it. It really is, like you said, how do I want to be treated? How would I feel in that situation?

• 13:07Ryan Holiday?

  And what little power do I have in this situation? And how do I use that to bring that into the world? So instead of complaining about what they're doing in Washington, or in Europe, or your state government, or whatever, how are you treating? We have all these opinions about how the world should be. But then each of us controls our own sphere. Our family, our business, or how we treat someone at the grocery store. How do we bring that into the world? Let's start there, and that makes an enormous difference.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Okay, we're gonna talk about doing the right thing when it's hard after the break.

• 13:46Ryan Holiday?

  The thing you're worried about could happen. All these things could happen. Seneca's advice, he says, "My advice to you is to not be unhappy before it happens." He says, "He who suffers before it is necessary suffers more than is necessary." Be present while you can. Do what you can in anticipation of that happening. You don't need to borrow suffering, and you don't need to make yourself more unhappy than you need to be.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  Welcome back. Here at Best, it's bestselling author, modern-day philosopher, Ryan Holiday, talking about his new book, Right Thing Right Now. I love this subtitle, "Good Values, Good Character, Good Deeds." You talk about in the book, a little boy at the beach. I heard the beach behind you, and he saw starfish.

• 14:28Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  And he took action there.

• 14:30Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, there's a story about a boy who walks up to a beach, and it's covered in starfish. There's been a storm, they've all washed up on the beach. And he's horrified, and so he begins to throw them back into the ocean one by one. And a man, we were talking about how adults, we can make our kids cynical. The man says, "You know, there's millions of starfish here. You're not possibly gonna make a difference." And as the boy throws one more starfish in, he says, "But it makes a difference to this starfish."

• 14:57Ryan Holiday?

  And when we think about justice, again, we can despair if we're trying to bring about global change, or transformative change. Not that these aren't things worth hoping for, but it matters to each individual person that you help to. So picking up litter by the side of the road, giving someone a raise, being nice to a stranger, holding a door. All of these things matter. And it matters to the person that it matters to.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  It matters to. All right, I love that, I love it. So, in the book, "Right Thing Right Now," I mean, we're here, sitting on the couch, we're comfy with our tan fam. It's easy to say, "I would do the right thing." It's so easy. But I'm gonna give you a scenario.

• 15:35Ryan Holiday?

  Okay.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  You go to the grocery store today. The person who's checking you out meets you with hostility. They meet you with anger. They are mad. They're throwing your lemon down the little thing. And you're sitting there, you've had a bad day. Grocery prices are high. And you're going, "Not today." "Not today." That's a tough, and we've been there. Someone is needing you hot.

• 15:59Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  And you're tired. And now you gotta do the right thing right now.

• 16:04Ryan Holiday?

  Yes. One of the things Mark-

• 16:06Speaker 01

  That happened to me yesterday. No, that's-

• 16:09Ryan Holiday?

  One of the things Mark Sereles talks about in Meditations, he says, "The best revenges do not be like that." And if you think about why this grocery clerk is being short with you, that's not a fun job. People are coming at them hot for hours in a row. They're on their feet all day. And so we can step back and you try to imagine what it's like to be that person. They're not pulling anything over on you by being mean to you. Like, you're winning, you know? You are having a better time than them, almost certainly. And so that sympathy, that empathy, and then realizing that you can meet this hostility with kindness. And now, now this requires an immense amount of discipline, too. That's why the virtues are so related.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  Right, because it does require discipline not to snap back at- even in your personal life at home. You come home, you've had a long day. Someone's done something, and you're like, "Coming in hot."

• 17:01Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, you don't have to take the bait. And I'm not saying I never take the bait. Of course I do.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  Of course you take, everybody does.

• 17:07Ryan Holiday?

  But the idea of deciding, "Hey, I'm not gonna let this ruin my day." And most importantly, "I'm not gonna let it change the person I am." I think that's like the number one struggle we face today.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  That is. It's not, "I'm not gonna let you change me." Let me bring another situation to you, because we are very much in a- Stay out of someone else's business culture. I do a lot of work with survivors of domestic violence. It's something we talk a lot about. When is it your business? And that's when it becomes hard to do the right thing. Because you know it's not your business, but it is your business.

• 17:41Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, I mean, look, there is, especially in New York City. It's a busy place. It's kind of a keep your eyes down, look at the street.

• 17:46Speaker 01

  But I think the world is like that now. We both live in small towns. You know, that, that let's borrow a cup of sugar. That doesn't even apply in small towns anymore, you know?

• 17:55Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Some of the crime stories I do on Deadline, that was in small towns.

• 17:59Ryan Holiday?

  You can't turn a blind eye to something you know is wrong. And I think the decision to, to get involved is, is a decision we've got to make. Obviously, you got to keep yourself safe also. But the, but the decision to speak up when you see something is an act of justice.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  To advocate for others when, when you see something. And again, I don't mean just in moments of, of a violent situation. But when you see something is not right.

• 18:23Ryan Holiday?

  I, I try to be very, very skeptical of that impulse inside myself that tries to tell myself that this isn't my problem. You know, like, this isn't your, you know? I, I don't want to intervene in people's business, but I also, I want to make sure I'm not rationalizing the easy thing, which is to go the other direction.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  Because I see, you know, we, we had a rash of incidents on airplanes. And people like get the phone to record it. Or, you know, someone on the subway, and everyone gets the phone. And I, I am like, oh, I don't want you to jump into harms way. But is the solution to grab the phone and record it? Or call the police or something? I don't know. You know, it's like, our society is very, you know, we used to call it rubber necking. Now it's camera necking. I want to, you know, just record all of this.

• 19:05Ryan Holiday?

  But, but, and again, thinking if this was happening to you, what would you want someone else to do? And letting that guide your action.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  I love it. So this year, you're celebrating the 10th year anniversary. Your Wall Street Journal number one bestselling novel, The Obstacle in the Way. Sold with 2 million copies worldwide. It's been translated in 40 different languages. Why do you think, 40 different languages? Why do you think people are, that is incredible. Why do you think, what, what is the pull here?

• 19:35Ryan Holiday?

  Well, look, obstacles are a perennial part of life. We all experience, we wake up in a world that we don't control, and we're trying to overcome adversity and difficulty. But in the 10 years since writing the book, I think one of the things that I've come to understand is it's not just, hey, how do I use this to get better at business? How do I get smarter, stronger? But realizing that every obstacle is a chance for you to do the right thing. Right? That we always have the ability to do the right thing. You know, Truman famously had that little thing on his desk that said, "The buck stops here." But he had another one that just said, "Always do right. This will astonish people."

• 20:11Speaker 01

  Well, this is brilliant, as always. And thank you so much for inspiring this hour.

• 20:14Ryan Holiday?

  Thank you, sir.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Ryan's book, "Right Thing Right Now," is out now. And guess what? I'm gonna do the right thing. To MFM, you're all going home with a beautiful copy of a book that should be in everyone's home. Thank you to Ryan.

• 20:34Ryan Holiday?

  Hey, it's Ryan. Thank you for listening to the Daily Stoic Podcast. I just wanted to say, we so appreciate it. We love serving you. It's amazing to us that over 30 million people have downloaded these episodes in the couple of years we've been doing it. It's an honor. Please, spread the word. Tell people about it. And this isn't to sell anything. I just wanted to say, thank you.