Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 117: Reality's Canceled

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia! This week, K & G recap Episode 117: Reality's Canceled. Karen covered the survival story of Teka Adams and Georgia discussed the West Mesa Bone Collector. Tune in for all-new commentary, case updates and more! Whether you've listened a thousand times or you're new to the show, join the conversation as we look back on our old episodes and discuss the life lessons we’ve learned along the way. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode! Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Now with updated sources and photos: https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. The Exactly Right podcast network provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics, including true crime, comedy, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Karen Kilgariff?

  This is exactly right.

• 0:07Karen Kilgariff?

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• 0:37Karen Kilgariff?

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• 1:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia.

• 1:51Karen Kilgariff?

  This is our show where we look back on and edit together our old episodes from 2018, this time with all new insights and case updates.

• 1:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Today, we're rewinding to episode 117, which we named "Reality's Canceled." I stand by that.

• 2:07Karen Kilgariff?

  It has been. That's when the timeline jumped. This episode originally came out April 19, 2018.

• 2:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's get into it. The intro to episode 117.

• 2:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Welcome to My Favorite Murder. The podcast where we- You know exactly where you are every time. Because we introduce you in the very beginning. You're baffled when you hit play and stare at our logo, until we tell you where you are.

• 2:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Do you want to start with Corrections Corner? Do you want me to start with telling you something crazy that happened?

• 2:39Karen Kilgariff?

  I will start with saying that I did a tweet about me belching so loudly that people heard me on the street.

• 2:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 2:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And it was very embarrassing. And lots of people responded and were like, "I knew I was a Karen." And the irony of that is the way, one of the way Georgia and I became friends, one of the icebreakers from the very beginning, was we were at a Thanksgiving dinner at our friend's house. Very small party. We didn't, we knew each other from talking once at a party, I believe. And Georgia, almost the entire party was belching, and I could not stop laughing. It was my favorite fucking thing in the world. And so when that happened and people were like, "I'm such a Karen," I was like, "I wonder if Georgia's gonna get mad that I just stole her thing."

• 3:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I'm angry that you stole the most embarrassing thing about me. That's so gross, that my mom is so ashamed of. That clearly just indicates that I have some gastrointestinal issues.

• 3:38Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, join the club. I guess we all do.

• 3:40Georgia Hardstark?

  But I want you to have it. I want you to have that. I want you to be known for that instead of me.

• 3:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. Well, I have clearly moved into that because I made this burp. I put my hand up to cover my mouth. I will say that for myself.

• 3:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 3:53Karen Kilgariff?

  But I think that made it, there's an echo effect that was created because of my hand cupping. And so it was like I was yodeling a burp across Magnolia Avenue.

• 4:03Georgia Hardstark?

  They're gonna start ringing you on stage at Coachella to fucking yodel your burps.

• 4:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck the yodeling boy. Let's get me belching into a microphone.

• 4:11Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 4:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 4:12Georgia Hardstark?

  I once belched out the window in the passenger seat, on like, in like Beverly Hills, and like angled it out the window. And next to us at the stoplight, rolled down, the windows rolled down, or maybe his car top up, because he was so rich, who I angled it at was the dude from American Idol.

• 4:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Who, Ryan Seacrest?

• 4:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 4:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no.

• 4:37Georgia Hardstark?

  I belched right at him.

• 4:40Georgia Hardstark?

  And he was like, "You're going to Hollywood."

• 4:43Karen Kilgariff?

  And then Randy Jackson popped up and was like, "Little pitchy, little pitchy on that one."

• 4:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Speaking of pitchy, we just-

• 4:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 4:51Georgia Hardstark?

  We just sang Steven, "Happy Birthday." His birthday was yesterday.

• 4:55Karen Kilgariff?

  You guys, it's Steven Ray Morris's 31st birthday.

• 4:59Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 5:00Speaker 03

  I feel old. No.

• 5:00Georgia Hardstark?

  You are.

• 5:01Karen Kilgariff?

  You're so old.

• 5:02Georgia Hardstark?

  We celebrated with a, I was like, "What do we, we have to get Steven like a dinosaur cupcake or something." And then Vince went to the grocery store last night and came back with this Hello Kitty birthday cake in the most like insane box. It was just so hilariously perfect.

• 5:20Karen Kilgariff?

  And then we ate it.

• 5:21Georgia Hardstark?

  And we ate it.

• 5:22Speaker 03

  My heart is racing right now.

• 5:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Steven had two pieces. I was like, "Do you want me to throw this away?" He was like, "No, I want another piece." And he's having coffee.

• 5:30Karen Kilgariff?

  My theory is that it wasn't ice cream per se. It was just ice cream like frosting. Like it was just an entire frosting cake.

• 5:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Frozen frosting.

• 5:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Frozen frosting.

• 5:40Georgia Hardstark?

  With frosting on the outside.

• 5:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep. And confetti.

• 5:43Georgia Hardstark?

  And confetti. It was pretty great.

• 5:45Speaker 03

  It was so amazing.

• 5:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Happy birthday, Steven. Can you tell us what you've learned in the past year?

• 5:50Speaker 03

  Ooh. Hmm, pay your parking ticket.

• 5:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 5:55Speaker 03

  Which is, I think, what you told me last year.

• 5:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 5:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Really? And so that worked for you? This has worked?

• 6:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Great. We just passed wisdom like this. You're saying, "Don't delay. Do it right away."

• 6:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. Because then it just has like anxiety because you just see it sitting in your backseat. And you're just like, you already know that money's gone, but then, yeah.

• 6:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Or you know you're late anyway, so you don't pay it. And then you realize the first time you knew you were late, you weren't late and you could have not had to pay double?

• 6:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 6:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I'd given thousands and thousands of dollars to the city of Los Angeles for parking tickets.

• 6:25Karen Kilgariff?

  When I lived in San Francisco, I'd get tickets all the time and I would, I would park in the crosswalk in front of our house. Because I just couldn't find a spot ever. And then I got, and then I found out that I owed San Francisco $800 in parking tickets. I, my, I wish I had a recording of the way my dad was yelling on the phone. Because in the middle, I was all scared and upset as he's yelling at me. And then I realized, "Oh, I'm not at home anymore." This is like, I can just pull the phone away from my ear, put it down, walk around. I don't have to just listen to him yell.

• 6:57Georgia Hardstark?

  You don't have to listen to your parents anymore.

• 6:59Karen Kilgariff?

  No. Even though he was 100% right. I was just like, "All right, talk to you later. Go ahead and pay that."

• 7:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, pay it. Bye. I did a fucking rookie thing. As someone who's lived in Los Angeles for like 20 years, I paid a ton of money in the first like two years to parking tickets because that's what happens. And then I was like, "Well, now I got this. I am LA." Like this is my hometown. In one week, in the same spot, I got three tickets.

• 7:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Whoa.

• 7:24Georgia Hardstark?

  In the same fucking like-

• 7:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Did you not move your car?

• 7:27Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 7:28Karen Kilgariff?

  You just kept-

• 7:29Georgia Hardstark?

  It was like next to my cafe that I go work at. And I was just so involved in what I was working on that like, and also I don't know math, so I like forgot that an hour had gone by and not two.

• 7:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. But that means you're in the flow. That's actually very good. You're, when time collapses like that, you're in the flow of creativity.

• 7:47Georgia Hardstark?

  And all I have to do for that is pay $68.

• 7:49Karen Kilgariff?

  It's akin to going to Universal Studios. It's up there. But, you know, there's less rides at that cafe.

• 8:01Georgia Hardstark?

  But isn't it, it's a wild ride in my brain.

• 8:04Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right, and that creative energy.

• 8:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Stupid brain. I have something to tell you, Karen. Something happened that just made me laugh. When you guys left after the episode yesterday, last week, where are we?

• 8:17Karen Kilgariff?

  See, because time has collapsed, we're in the flow right now.

• 8:20Georgia Hardstark?

  You're there. All right. Something happened that's like one of your, I wouldn't call it your biggest fears, but this thing that you're anxious about.

• 8:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Did you, you didn't have pants? And the only pants that were there were too small?

• 8:29Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 8:30Karen Kilgariff?

  To put on?

• 8:30Georgia Hardstark?

  No, guess another one. Like a thing that you're, like, you're always like, "What, is this gonna happen?"

• 8:34Karen Kilgariff?

  You fell down in public.

• 8:35Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 8:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Remember when you fell down? After we had lunch together? One of the first, not like one of the first times after starting the podcast that we had hung out, we had like gone to lunch. We had just recorded Joe DeRosa and Kurt Braunler's podcast.

• 8:53Karen Kilgariff?

  At Meltdown?

• 8:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. What's it called?

• 8:55Karen Kilgariff?

  And we went across the street. Oh, emotional hangs?

• 8:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Emotional hangs. And we left and, oh, you just ate it. I felt so bad.

• 9:04Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I fell in that way where the styrofoam container that had my half of a BLT flew out of my hand and into the middle of Sunset. And it's this thing, I have these trick ankles, both of them, because I've sprained both of my ankles so many times, that every once in a while, if I stepped down wrong, especially from my ring-

• 9:21Georgia Hardstark?

  There was a little pothole, too.

• 9:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's right. I stepped into a pothole.

• 9:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, directly into the tiniest pothole. And I can't help but laugh when I see that. And I was like, we're not good enough friends yet for me to laugh at you falling.

• 9:32Karen Kilgariff?

  How could you not, though? There's no, that you have to let people laugh if you fall. If you're a grown adult that falls all the way down, you, you have to take what comes.

• 9:40Georgia Hardstark?

  But I also laughed. And then I went and got the car and brought it to you. So like, I, I'm not a dick. I'm not like, bye, I'm gonna run through traffic.

• 9:46Karen Kilgariff?

  That would have been amazing if you're like, but, well, anyway, great lunch to you later. You're on your own.

• 9:51Georgia Hardstark?

  On my way out, grabbed your styrofoam BLT and fucking took it with me.

• 9:55Karen Kilgariff?

  You're like, oh, I love, oh, you don't want this? Are you throwing it in the street?

• 9:58Georgia Hardstark?

  This is for my lunch. Okay, no. I, all right, let me set the scene.

• 10:02Karen Kilgariff?

  It's none of those fears?

• 10:03Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 10:03Karen Kilgariff?

  No moths? Box of moths?

• 10:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 10:07Karen Kilgariff?

  What? What? Are you serious?

• 10:11Georgia Hardstark?

  I fucking, I, so you guys left. Vince and I sat down, we were hanging out, watching TV. And I was like, why is Dottie, my little kitten, just staring? They had this box of toys, of all their like little toys and stuff. And she's just staring at it, which is weird. And I eventually get paranoid. And I'm like, why is she, is there like a spider in there? What's going on? So I pulled the box out and turned the light on. And there's a moth in the station in it. And there are moths crawling all throughout it.

• 10:38Karen Kilgariff?

  No, no.

• 10:39Georgia Hardstark?

  A hundred percent. I found a fucking box of moths. And so I put it out on the fucking, on the balcony. And I was like, no, can't deal with this right now. And then I went back yesterday thinking, or the other day thinking, maybe they had thrown away. And it's just like, you can see all the moth eggs in it. There's still moths in it. So now I have to get them totally new toys. And there are all these cool like murderino toys.

• 10:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's right. There's all these homemade toys.

• 11:01Georgia Hardstark?

  I can't get rid of them.

• 11:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, shit.

• 11:04Georgia Hardstark?

  It's, it's the thing I do to deal with things where I just leave it.

• 11:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Put it on the balcony and shut the shade? A hundred percent. Oh, my God, that's, now, do you think, in any realm, this supports my theory that I am a psychic?

• 11:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 11:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, I know it's been about a year and a half since I talked about originally fearing boxes of moths. But I'm, maybe I'm a long-term psychic.

• 11:27Georgia Hardstark?

  It could be. And for no reason. And it doesn't help at all. It didn't help me.

• 11:32Karen Kilgariff?

  It wasn't a warning. Just turned into a funny joke. People have given us great box of moth gifts.

• 11:37Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. Up right over here in the pod loft, we have some like joke box of moths.

• 11:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Gorgeous. People have, they've handmade moths for us. Gorgeous.

• 11:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Paper moth shay?

• 11:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Paper.

• 11:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Maybe that's, maybe you are a psychic to the puns I'm gonna make a year and a half later.

• 11:52Karen Kilgariff?

  I just need to make a recording of when Georgia is talking, and while she's talking, thinks of a pun. The joy that comes into her eyes is so delightful. It's kind of like a cartoon. Where you're like, paper moth shay, paper moth shay. Okay. Now do we talk about something fucking awful and heavy?

• 12:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 12:15Karen Kilgariff?

  My hometown Burbank.

• 12:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 12:17Karen Kilgariff?

  So I'm on the Nextdoor app in my neighborhood.

• 12:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is the Talk to Your Neighbors app?

• 12:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Talk to Your Neighbors app. We're having a yard sale. Somebody's trying to steal my recycling. My, my-

• 12:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Steal your fucking trash.

• 12:30Karen Kilgariff?

  For real. My neighborhood is filled with old, retired, may potentially rich people. Because I live basically adjacent to a nice neighborhood. So I get all these, there's, we get all the bad neighborhood stuff. We get all the fancy neighborhood stuff. Literally, there's listings like stranger on the street. Just anybody walking by there trying to report on Nextdoor. It is-

• 12:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Can you write back and be like, calm down?

• 12:54Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I actually watched a guy, there's a really hilarious writer named Guy Andor Kaiser, that's, that I follow on Twitter, that's also a TV writer that my friends are friends with. So I kind of know of him. And I saw him one time on the Nextdoor app, get into a fight with a guy. And I DM him on Twitter and just go, just so you know, I'm on your side. And that was, these people are insane. They're beyond insane. So, one of the listings was raccoon out in the day. There's shit like that. We were just like, you guys need to start going to a community center, or take a class.

• 13:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Or feed the raccoon and make friends with him.

• 13:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Or feed that raccoon and trap it. Get it inside your house. But, the other day on the Nextdoor app, God bless it, up comes an official Burbank police report about three dead bodies that have been found in a car.

• 13:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 13:44Karen Kilgariff?

  And they don't know, there's a, there's a bunch of talk that there's missing people from the Bakersfield area, that people are theorizing these might be those missing people. It doesn't, it did not say. It's just, the missing individuals from the Bakersfield area is the only way they said it.

• 14:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, so maybe they're linked somehow.

• 14:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, that's the theory. But police are like, it's unproven. That's not, we, they don't have the identities yet.

• 14:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. At the end, did they say wink, wink? Because that's how you know.

• 14:12Karen Kilgariff?

  That's how you know they know exactly who they're talking about. No, but it's like, I think about a year ago, a crime very similar, where it was in the morning, and a parking person found the burnt out car, remember?

• 14:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 14:23Karen Kilgariff?

  In Burbank, by the Burbank library? That's what this reminds me of. But it's, I don't think it's the same area. But it still was seven in the morning, and a parking person came, and it was a red Jeep that didn't park there for like several days.

• 14:36Georgia Hardstark?

  What I think is interesting, though, is that it was parked in an illegal parking place, which means they wanted the car to be found, whoever left it there.

• 14:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Maybe.

• 14:44Georgia Hardstark?

  You know what I mean?

• 14:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. The idea, though, that three dead bodies-

• 14:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Three people.

• 14:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Is just like, God, it-

• 14:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Like what hap, something happened.

• 14:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Please don't let it be a family. Yeah, what the fuck? What the fuck?

• 14:55Georgia Hardstark?

  So scary.

• 14:56Karen Kilgariff?

  That's, I don't know, something I'll definitely come back to you with if there's anything interesting. But it's like, we talk about this stuff so much, and we read about it so much. And when it's, you know, it's what we always say, when it happens like near you, you're just like, no way. This is happens other places.

• 15:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. Scary.

• 15:15Karen Kilgariff?

  So skeety.

• 15:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, let me change the tune, because I have no way to do it. And it sucks. Okay, I have two corrections from Monday's minisode. The term suck it was not said by Stone Cold Steve Austin. In fact, Vince laughed at me when I said that. So I am a terrible wrestling wife. It was said by these other people. I don't want to screw it up again, so I'm not gonna say. And then also, the thing I'm gonna be drinking in the UK is not a pint of bitters, but a pint of bitter.

• 15:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, bitter. Singular.

• 15:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes. That's it.

• 15:49Karen Kilgariff?

  That's good to know. But now, now we know, then bitters are the thing I was talking about. Bitter is the thing you were talking about, right?

• 15:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 15:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Because you can order bitters, but that's when you, when you're, when you feel like you're burping a lot, you can order bitters and make all that go away.

• 16:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Supposedly.

• 16:05Karen Kilgariff?

  I have a question.

• 16:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 16:07Karen Kilgariff?

  That we will find out when we are in London, England, I believe. They, they talk about having tea all the time.

• 16:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 16:14Karen Kilgariff?

  But I think, don't they just mean lunch?

• 16:16Georgia Hardstark?

  No. Tea is like a snack. I, oh shit, Karen, why are we just doing this right? Steven, look up high tea.

• 16:22Karen Kilgariff?

  What if we just put it out there to the universe and see who tells us? But it's just, I'm watching a British show right now where they keep talking about, what did you have for tea?

• 16:30Georgia Hardstark?

  I think when you, I think tea, from the books I've read, I think tea is you have tea and like a dessert. Like, what's for tea? It's like this dessert. It's like a sponge cake or some kind of pudding.

• 16:41Karen Kilgariff?

  But not according to this TV show. That's why-

• 16:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Which one?

• 16:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I want to talk about it at the end of the show.

• 16:46Georgia Hardstark?

  All right. Well, okay. Well, when we had high tea, I think that's different. It's like lunch. Snacks. Snack. That's why I think it's snacks.

• 16:56Karen Kilgariff?

  It's not, though. According to the show.

• 16:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, we should do it when we're there.

• 17:04Georgia Hardstark?

  And we're back. We're back. We're burping.

• 17:06Karen Kilgariff?

  More burping than ever. Why do we burp so much on this show?

• 17:10Georgia Hardstark?

  We drink a lot of beverages beforehand.

• 17:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 17:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Is there an air swallowing thing with talking?

• 17:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Absolutely. When you get all excited.

• 17:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 17:19Karen Kilgariff?

  And you kind of like-

• 17:20Georgia Hardstark?

  There's a lot of gasping in this show.

• 17:22Karen Kilgariff?

  A lot of gasping, a lot of short, like, we're, we're not doing-

• 17:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 17:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Good diaphragmatic breathing.

• 17:27Georgia Hardstark?

  No. There's a lot of slouching.

• 17:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 17:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Especially back then. Are we still in the pod loft, I think?

• 17:33Karen Kilgariff?

  2018?

• 17:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 17:34Karen Kilgariff?

  I think so.

• 17:35Georgia Hardstark?

  That means for me, it's like legs up, higher than my head.

• 17:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Didn't I sit on the floor a lot in front of the couch?

• 17:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 17:43Karen Kilgariff?

  I feel like that was my, with your old coffee. I know we've talked about this, but me and Steven would get to Georgia's apartment at like seven o'clock at night. And she would have her old coffee from the morning. And we'd be like, can we have your coffee?

• 17:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Heat it up. Who gives a shit?

• 17:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Every once in a while, we would reheat it every once in a while you'd make as a new pot. But most of the time, we were just drinking your old coffee.

• 18:02Georgia Hardstark?

  I want to make you a new pot because I'm not good at making it. And I'm lazy. Let's be honest here.

• 18:07Karen Kilgariff?

  There's a couple of things happening at once.

• 18:08Georgia Hardstark?

  I made someone coffee once that came over, because Vince makes it. He's good at it, you know? And so if he's at home, I'm not gonna make it for you. It's gonna be worse than if you just reheat the coffee that Vince made that morning.

• 18:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Sure.

• 18:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Also like give it to people black and don't offer them any cream or sugar because I drink it black. So it doesn't even cross my mind. And it's like,

• 18:24Karen Kilgariff?

  That's what Stephen and I did though. We would just go in and we'd be like,

• 18:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 18:28Karen Kilgariff?

  We need it. Reheat it. And then it would be like, almost bedtime and me and Stephen would be like, let's drink as much caffeine as we can.

• 18:36Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, you gotta do it for the love of the pod.

• 18:38Karen Kilgariff?

  It is what has fueled this show for a decade.

• 18:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, I have a question for you.

• 18:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 18:43Georgia Hardstark?

  When was the last time you got a parking ticket?

• 18:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Fucking never.

• 18:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Really?

• 18:48Karen Kilgariff?

  And you know what? I've really turned my life around, but it's too late. My dad refuses to be proud of me. But he would be if he, if he would just listen.

• 18:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 18:57Karen Kilgariff?

  He would be so proud because I don't get parking tickets. And the other day I actually did one of those things where I think I was in Studio City. And I pulled in and it was one of those things where like, there was a number and I was supposed to go find the coordinating fucking thing.

• 19:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 19:11Karen Kilgariff?

  And I was like, no, I'm rolling the dice.

• 19:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 19:14Karen Kilgariff?

  No ticket.

• 19:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Nice.

• 19:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 19:15Georgia Hardstark?

  I've definitely had a few, but since my brain has formed completely in my twenties, I haven't, it hasn't been, like, they should, they're shooting an exemption for people whose brains aren't, because they're so confusing in LA especially of like, where and how and when?

• 19:28Karen Kilgariff?

  When my niece started driving.

• 19:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, you've a.

• 19:31Karen Kilgariff?

  When she was 16 years old and her friends started driving, I was like, who picked 16? This is, we're not farmers. Like, get these kids off the streets until they're 30.

• 19:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Vote for their own rights yet. They shouldn't be able to drive themselves places.

• 19:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 19:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, let's get on our high horse.

• 19:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Anyway, this is where the box of moth's fear came from.

• 19:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, wow.

• 19:50Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the episode so long ago.

• 19:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 19:53Karen Kilgariff?

  And people used to threaten, it's kind of funny because being raised by a sister, yes, that's right. My sister raised me. She taught me a lot of good tricks, uh, growing up. One of which is, don't ever actually tell people your real thing.

• 20:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 20:08Karen Kilgariff?

  You know what I mean? So box moth's like, oh, that's my biggest fear.

• 20:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 20:11Karen Kilgariff?

  It isn't really.

• 20:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Like, I clowns. I don't like clowns.

• 20:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh huh.

• 20:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't fucking give it away.

• 20:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Not on a podcast.

• 20:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 20:16Karen Kilgariff?

  And she taught me that with, don't tell people who you actually have a crush on. And in high school, I made up, someone was, I was talking to somebody and I got the vibe of like, not safe.

• 20:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 20:26Karen Kilgariff?

  So they're like, who do you like? And then I said, and it was just like, some guy that was in the class above us.

• 20:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Was it Jesus?

• 20:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Again, I had to preach.

• 20:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 20:36Karen Kilgariff?

  And then like, a couple of weeks later, he started going out with my friend's older sister and she came and apologized to me. She's like, I know you really liked him. And I was like, this school is so small and this is, thank God she told me this. Cause I didn't, I was like, it's okay, but I.

• 20:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 20:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Was like, oh no.

• 20:52Georgia Hardstark?

  I tell everything to everyone all the time.

• 20:54Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. Just know you can lie.

• 20:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Do you want to update on the Burbank bodies in the car?

• 20:59Karen Kilgariff?

  God, that is just, it's one of those things where like, I feel like, once we started doing this podcast, the amount of actual crime around me.

• 21:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 21:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Became so much more evident. And it was like, building and building where it's like, yeah, this is everywhere all the time.

• 21:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. Well, you notice it like all the time now too, I think.

• 21:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 21:19Georgia Hardstark?

  More so.

• 21:19Karen Kilgariff?

  So this one was a really terrible story and a very sad one. The, the men in that car were three missing men from the Bakersfield area. And two of them were brothers. They were Lucas and Jan Carlos Amiama. And then the third victim was later identified as Carlos Elias Lopez. All three of those men had already been reported missing from Bakersfield. And they were found shot to death in a Jeep on April 17th, 2018. This case has never been solved. It's still open. No arrests have been made.

• 21:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 21:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 21:56Georgia Hardstark?

  That's such a long time.

• 21:58Karen Kilgariff?

  So sad.

• 21:59Georgia Hardstark?

  All right. Well, so should we get into your story?

• 22:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. This is another one of my, I survived the television show that I adore the most, saved me when I had no story. But this story, Teka Adams, the woman who went through this horrifying experience. I, she's just, it's such an incredible thing that it, it felt great. And this is, I think, where as we were doing this podcast, learning that the, the good feeling.

• 22:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 22:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Is the feeling of telling a story that could help that person or help people like that person.

• 22:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 22:35Karen Kilgariff?

  In the future. The idea that young women who are pregnant should be slightly worried about this bizarre, like a person who would set up a similar, like a wishlist online and then be like, that's how they access them.

• 22:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 22:51Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm a mother too. All that weird stuff.

• 22:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Just to keep an eye out. No, it's, this story is stuck, I think with everyone.

• 22:58Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so crazy.

• 22:58Georgia Hardstark?

  All right. So let's get into Karen's story about Teka Adams.

• 23:09Karen Kilgariff?

  All right. And with that, who went first last week? Me? I did. You did? Yeah, because I was like, I want to go first. Right? Well, and again, I still don't, like, I feel like we, we never got a confirmation on if you did Jesse Palmeri in Boston. We did. I did. Okay. Someone actually, yeah. Shut up. Somebody sent, somebody sent a tweet. Shit, I should have written her name down. I'm getting better at this, but I didn't do it this time. What? She sent a tweet that said, yeah, you did Jesse Palmeri's second show, Late Show. Glad we mean so much. It was something really funny, like a real sassy Boston response that was like, yeah, Late Show, thanks for the love from the Late Show or something. It was really funny, but it doesn't matter because it honestly, we've done so many of these that it really felt new to me.

• 23:54Georgia Hardstark?

  If you don't remember, if Stephen doesn't remember, if I don't remember, if Wikipedia doesn't mention it, it never fucking happened.

• 24:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, and that means that we can just keep on every like, two years, we'll just cycle through the same stories.

• 24:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Perfect.

• 24:07Karen Kilgariff?

  But we'll switch off.

• 24:08Georgia Hardstark?

  But well, yeah.

• 24:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, also there was people that were saying, you, you said something was in some neighborhood and it wasn't.

• 24:14Georgia Hardstark?

  I remember that part.

• 24:16Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, that's par for the course. I feel like if we didn't say stuff, do stuff like that, nobody would have any reason to interact.

• 24:22Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 24:22Karen Kilgariff?

  And then we would be, we'd all be so alone and isolated.

• 24:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Sometimes we do it on purpose, just so you guys will pay attention to us.

• 24:28Karen Kilgariff?

  We plant them. They're called Easter, Easter egg mistakes.

• 24:31Georgia Hardstark?

  They're called, they're called Passover mistakes. Passover egg mistakes.

• 24:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, for equality, for Jewish equality?

• 24:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. I hear that. They're Pesach mistakes.

• 24:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Pesach mistakes. Let me think of a pun. No, it's not there.

• 24:45Karen Kilgariff?

  It really pays off.

• 24:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Did that work?

• 24:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Karen!

• 24:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Did you even understand what I meant?

• 24:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, it pays off. It pays off.

• 24:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Come on.

• 24:54Georgia Hardstark?

  That was beautiful.

• 24:55Karen Kilgariff?

  You were slowly turning me to the pun cult. Oh, that was another, somebody else sent a message that was like, and because Karen loved puns and my head almost exploded. I was like, now we're just blending into the same person. Well, listen, if, we've, we've been doing a lot of things lately and we've been busy. And you know what that means when I've been busy and we come to do one of our episodes.

• 25:15Georgia Hardstark?

  I survived. I survived. I survived. Yay!

• 25:20Karen Kilgariff?

  All right. And this one, I have to thank, and I'm saying your full name because it's on your Twitter, uh, feed. So I'm not thinking that you have a lot of shame about it. There's nothing, there's.

• 25:31Georgia Hardstark?

  She's shameful about her name?

• 25:33Karen Kilgariff?

  No, I'm just saying, I want to say her whole name because it's what her Twitter name is.

• 25:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 25:37Karen Kilgariff?

  And Charlotte White.

• 25:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 25:39Karen Kilgariff?

  And she tweeted me the other day.

• 25:40Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a good name.

• 25:41Karen Kilgariff?

  And she tweeted me a little video. Um, and she was like, what about this fucking awesome moment from I Survived?

• 25:47Georgia Hardstark?

  I watched it?

• 25:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Did you watch it?

• 25:49Georgia Hardstark?

  And I was like, what is that episode?

• 25:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. So she reminded me and I got real mad at myself for not, because this is one of those ones, and I think maybe I hadn't done it because this is another fetus snatching story.

• 26:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, God.

• 26:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Just like Sarah Brady's.

• 26:05Georgia Hardstark?

  They just keep doing that.

• 26:06Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so crazy. But this one, I think this one might be crazier. And it's also really fucking hard to listen to. So anybody that's squeamish, I will warn you before I say bad things in this one, because, because there's been times when I haven't done that, people get a little bit upset.

• 26:22Georgia Hardstark?

  I think that's a really good idea.

• 26:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Cause these, this one's rough. And what's incredible, so this is Teka's story.

• 26:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 26:29Karen Kilgariff?

  This is me basically copying down her, I survived story word for word.

• 26:35Georgia Hardstark?

  I survived so much fucking play that they'd be like, yeah, go ahead and use the clip.

• 26:38Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, one would like to think that, but lawyers aren't like that. Those fucking copyright lawyers don't give a fuck.

• 26:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, fine, fine, fine.

• 26:47Karen Kilgariff?

  So Charlotte sends a clip.

• 26:51Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's Teka in the middle of telling the most gruesome thing, shitting on Michael Jackson. And it's so funny. And the way she does it is so funny.

• 27:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 27:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And I was like, oh my God, I love that one. And I responded to Charlotte and I was like, oh my God, I love that one. She's amazing, whatever.

• 27:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 27:07Karen Kilgariff?

  And so then I was like, gotta tell her story.

• 27:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Can we put the clip on like, uh, on socials?

• 27:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Probably, right? We, I'll just, we'll just retweet Charlotte White. And then I read her home address. Charlotte White. I'm going to say it 19 more times. She's at Call Me Charlie 16 on Twitter.

• 27:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 27:24Karen Kilgariff?

  If you want to talk to her about this. But I do, so I always remember Teka and it's the way she tells the story because as she's telling, she, her, she's always calm and, and almost like zen-like calm. And she's, and we always say this and it's a really lame thing to say, but it's just how we feel. It's not about, we're not talking about beauty per se. This woman is fucking gorgeous. Like, and the way.

• 27:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Luminous.

• 27:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, exactly. Radiant, I think was the word I used. She's radiant. And she just talked, she talks through the worst fucking thing that could happen to a person with this like, she just kind of is rolling her eyes like, and if you can believe this, this is what happened. And we're just like, holy shit. All right. So now I tell you, it's, we're in Washington DC, 2009.

• 28:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 28:16Karen Kilgariff?

  And Teka lives on the streets. Um, the way she describes herself, she says she is rebellious. She didn't want to live by anybody else's rules. And because of that, she got herself into what she calls some rough spots. So after living that way for a while, she decides she needs to get her life together. And she gets herself into a shelter. She gets off the streets. Um, so she's in this shelter and she meets a guy named PJ. They fall in love and they get married. So, um,

• 28:43Karen Kilgariff?

  So when she's seven and a half months pregnant, she starts to get phone calls from an unknown number. And she finally, when she picks up, it's a woman who says her name's Stephanie. And Stephanie says she works for a program that gets homeless pregnant women like clothing, baby supplies, car seats, you know, strollers, whatever. And she says that they have this big warehouse full of that stuff and that Teka can come down and pick out whatever she wants.

• 29:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 29:15Karen Kilgariff?

  And the smile that gets on her face when she's talking about this, where she's just like, I was thrilled. Like, it's this amazing opportunity. And this is also the part of this element of this story that's so fucked up is this is a person who is as down on her luck as she can be.

• 29:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 29:31Karen Kilgariff?

  And this is when she gets fucking victimized. It's really fucked up. So she's thrilled. Immediately, her husband PJ is like, I don't like this.

• 29:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Stop it.

• 29:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Suspicious. I don't think this is too good to be true.

• 29:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 29:45Karen Kilgariff?

  And he said, he actually, what he says is, don't rush into anything you don't know about. Where I'm like, yes, PJ. But Teka's like, I really need this stuff.

• 29:54Georgia Hardstark?

  And there are programs like that.

• 29:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Absolutely. There's plenty of like, good hearted people that want exactly that.

• 30:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 30:01Karen Kilgariff?

  You know, want to help in that exactly that way. So she's like, yeah, don't, don't be so mistrustful.

• 30:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 30:06Karen Kilgariff?

  So she ends up meeting this woman named Stephanie outside of the shelter. And she's, she says that Stephanie is really nice. She's very soft spoken. She gets into her car. She starts, Stephanie asks her how everything is. She starts telling her about her life and how she has turned it around. She's gotten off the streets and now she's married and now she's gonna have this baby and that she's really, really happy. And it, so they, as she's like, talking and driving, you know, she's just telling her about everything. They end up at Stephanie's apartment. So she goes up into Stephanie's apartment with her and Stephanie brings her into an

• 30:50Karen Kilgariff?

  unfurnished bedroom and sits her down and puts on a movie and then starts doing other stuff. And so, yeah. So here's, this is the thing that like, you don't know any of this extra stuff. So this is just my opinion. But this is the kind of thing where if you're in the position of, of being given something.

• 31:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 31:09Karen Kilgariff?

  That you really, really want and need very badly. You're not going to question a person that's changed, starts changing their story ever so slightly.

• 31:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. Cause you still are ingratiated to that person for those things.

• 31:21Karen Kilgariff?

  You, you're like, get me to that fucking warehouse. If you need to stop off at your apartment, so be it.

• 31:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 31:26Karen Kilgariff?

  That happens.

• 31:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 31:27Karen Kilgariff?

  And I'm sure that that woman gave her some storyline of why she needed to be there for a little while. So it's like, oh, I'll just put on this movie and let me just get these things done. But that's, I don't know if that's exactly how it happened.

• 31:37Georgia Hardstark?

  That makes total sense.

• 31:37Karen Kilgariff?

  That's how I'm picturing it where you start to rationalize. It's just like, yeah, this is fine.

• 31:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 31:42Karen Kilgariff?

  So she gets a call from PJ while she's sitting there. He goes, as she said, he goes, where are you at? And she's like, I'm fine. But she goes, because the truth was, I didn't know where I was. So she doesn't want him to worry.

• 31:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 31:58Karen Kilgariff?

  But his worry is making her begin to worry.

• 32:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 32:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And begin to realize what a mistake it was to kind of lose herself in the conversation. And she doesn't, she can't say where she is. She doesn't know what neighborhood she's even in.

• 32:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 32:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so. And it gets worse from here.

• 32:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, God.

• 32:17Karen Kilgariff?

  They finish watching that movie. Stephanie puts on another movie.

• 32:21Georgia Hardstark?

  A movie?

• 32:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh huh. So it's just like.

• 32:24Georgia Hardstark?

  She finishes an entire movie?

• 32:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, two hours, right? Or maybe 90 minutes if it's an action film. But yeah, she, then she puts on another one. And then they start watching that movie. And as they're watching it, a heavy blanket gets thrown over Teka's head and this woman starts beating her in the head. She hits her like 10 times in the head.

• 32:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 32:47Karen Kilgariff?

  So Teka jumps up, she puts her hands up and she says, all she can see is blood. So, and then she goes, and when you're in that situation, all you can think is, I got to go.

• 33:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 33:01Karen Kilgariff?

  And so she starts running. She gets to the fucking front door and this is like, makes me so crazy like when she was telling it, but it also reminded me of the other baby snatching story that Sarah Brady told in her episode of I Survived that I've already done. Where she runs to the front door of the woman's apartment building and it's locked. And as she tries to get it open, the woman catches up with her and grabs her and pulls her back.

• 33:26Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's same thing, an apartment.

• 33:27Karen Kilgariff?

  But it's in the apartment where she says she gets to the door, there's a chain lock, a deadbolt, and then the bottom lock. So she can't get all three of them open in time. This woman catches Stephanie, catches up to her, jumps on her, and this woman is twice her size.

• 33:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 33:44Karen Kilgariff?

  She says she was really big and it, and it looks like Teka's pretty petite.

• 33:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 33:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And they start wrestling around on the ground. She's fighting her off.

• 33:52Georgia Hardstark?

  And she's seven and a half months pregnant while she's doing this.

• 33:54Karen Kilgariff?

  And a half months pregnant. So, try to remember that throughout.

• 34:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 34:02Karen Kilgariff?

  So while they're fighting, and she has a head injury already.

• 34:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 34:08Karen Kilgariff?

  She has blood in her eyes from that head injury already.

• 34:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 34:13Karen Kilgariff?

  This woman's trying to choke her out. She's, Teka's fighting back as hard as she can, but she can't see and you know, the whole thing. This woman picks up a fireplace poker. Yep. So if you don't like, if you're squeamish or you might faint and you're driving a car or whatever, hit, hit the forward 15 seconds button about three times right now.

• 34:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no.

• 34:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Because this woman picks up a fireplace poker and hits Teka in the head about 40 times.

• 34:41Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 34:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh huh. So she, at some point during that beating passes out.

• 34:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Steven's like, I can't hit 15 forward. Poor Steven.

• 34:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Steven just fell backwards and was like, this is my worst, worst birthday ever. Sorry. Sorry.

• 34:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, Steven.

• 34:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so she comes to like, two minutes later.

• 35:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 35:02Karen Kilgariff?

  As she feels the woman pick her up by the ankles and drag her down the hallway toward the kitchen.

• 35:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 35:08Karen Kilgariff?

  So.

• 35:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Kitchen, nothing good happens in the kitchen.

• 35:10Karen Kilgariff?

  No, not in this scenario. Then she hears her rattling around in the kitchen, opening drawers and doing stuff. Then she, the lady kneels down next to her and she feels a sharp pain in her side.

• 35:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 35:22Karen Kilgariff?

  And she looks down and she sees the woman's holding a box cutter.

• 35:26Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 35:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, squeamish people, you're not gonna like when I say, she sees the woman holding a box cutter.

• 35:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, they've still been fast forwarding past this.

• 35:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, good, good. I'm not gonna worry about you anymore. Not you. The squeamish.

• 35:40Georgia Hardstark?

  We have, we have to fucking deal with it.

• 35:42Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. You guys have to take this no matter what. Steven is holding both his knees in his mouth. Okay. So blood, of course, starts pouring out her side.

• 35:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 35:54Karen Kilgariff?

  She said there were, there was blood everywhere.

• 35:57Georgia Hardstark?

  I fucking bet.

• 35:58Karen Kilgariff?

  And the woman goes back into the kitchen, this creeped me out so bad, and starts to pray. So she's saying stuff like, Lord, forgive me, Lord, I'm a sinner. I'm so sorry. Which is like, that's straight out of like, a horrible horror movie.

• 36:11Georgia Hardstark?

  This is like, the shit movie Carrie or something. Or it's like, we need to pray.

• 36:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 36:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, no, no, you're fucking psycho. That doesn't like you.

• 36:19Karen Kilgariff?

  You don't, praying won't help anything right now with you have a fucking box cutter in your prayer hands.

• 36:25Georgia Hardstark?

  God knows you're about to go back to what you were fucking doing.

• 36:28Karen Kilgariff?

  And of course she does. So Teka can't move. She can't, she's lost so much blood, she doesn't have the energy to do anything. She's just laying there. The woman starts cleaning up the blood. She's just scrubbing, scrubbing, scrubbing, cleaning. And then she kneels down and asks Teka if she can get up. And Teka says, I don't think so. So the woman picks Teka up, carries her back to the unfurnished bedroom and puts her on a mattress on the floor. And then she takes Teka's cell phone away from her and turns it off.

• 36:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no.

• 37:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. So eventually, as she's laying there on this mattress on the floor, her bleeding stops. And she thinks, maybe I can talk to her and she'll let me go. Maybe if I, the thing that most people do where it's like, humanize yourself. So she starts talking, saying, you know, like, I guess based on the information she had in the conversation on the car ride over, she's like, she talked about her kids, she talked about, she talked about Stephanie's kids, she talked about her own kids. And she basically said to Stephanie, I would never tell on you because I don't believe in breaking families up. I wouldn't want a person to lose their family. Stephanie starts pacing in circles and going, she said she could tell it was working on her. Cause she's pacing and murmuring to herself and freaking out.

• 37:46Karen Kilgariff?

  And at one point, Stephanie says, I gotta get out of this apartment. Teka's like, oh, yeah, really?

• 37:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 37:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Me too. Then Teka says, and this is another one of those moments where you're just like, fuck, man. She said, but I know she's not just gonna leave me there because I've seen her face and I know where she lives.

• 38:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Shit.

• 38:03Karen Kilgariff?

  So at this point, she has been held, she's been battered and bleeding, held in this apartment for three nights.

• 38:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Three nights?

• 38:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, this has continued over like, all of these things that she's done and taking her to the room and all that.

• 38:15Georgia Hardstark?

  I was expecting like, one afternoon.

• 38:17Karen Kilgariff?

  No, no, no. Like, it's like, the initial beating and then a night. And, and she said, the first night, she played movies all night and Teka didn't sleep all night. She just stayed up watching the woman.

• 38:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 38:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, because she was obviously like, just didn't know what was gonna happen next.

• 38:36Karen Kilgariff?

  So then the third night Stephanie walks into the bedroom and she's holding a metal bowl full of ice with a rag in it.

• 38:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no.

• 38:44Karen Kilgariff?

  A rag's on her shoulder. She's got six towels and two box cutters and a knife.

• 38:49Georgia Hardstark?

  No, no. Why do people use box cutters?

• 38:51Karen Kilgariff?

  It's, it's so awful.

• 38:55Georgia Hardstark?

  And the rag over her shoulder, like your mom did that.

• 38:58Karen Kilgariff?

  That's actually my, that's my mom at Thanksgiving.

• 39:00Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. I'm picturing your mom right now.

• 39:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Totally. My mom would be fully dressed to the nines. And then she would have the dirtiest dish towel on her shoulder. Cause she'd be like pulling stuff out of the oven.

• 39:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. We call that a schmata in Yiddish.

• 39:14Karen Kilgariff?

  A little schmata?

• 39:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Just like a gross rag that you used to clean with.

• 39:17Karen Kilgariff?

  That's funny, cause in TV that we used to always, on the Ellen show, Andy Lastman used to always say, we need a schmata to cover this. I always thought it meant like a nice tablecloth.

• 39:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no.

• 39:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Just like a piece of shit.

• 39:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Just like something. We need to throw something over this.

• 39:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Throw some rag over there. Okay. So nightmare time. Anyone coming at you with a metal bowl full of ice, run the fuck, if you can run.

• 39:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Bad intentions.

• 39:41Karen Kilgariff?

  There's nothing good at the end of that. So then, and this is very upsetting and it also is something that was featured. Did you ever, did you watch the assassination of Johnny Versace?

• 39:53Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I haven't watched that yet.

• 39:54Karen Kilgariff?

  It's good.

• 39:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 39:55Karen Kilgariff?

  It's really good. I hadn't watched it cause, cause of course there was online, we're not sure if we like it or not, which I always then go, oh, forget it.

• 40:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 40:03Karen Kilgariff?

  And then someone was like, what are, are you crazy? It's the best and you will love it. And I did. And it's brilliant, but there's one part where he has a victim and this is what happened to Teka. Stephanie wrapped her tape in her head in duct tape.

• 40:17Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 40:18Karen Kilgariff?

  So she is, her eyes are covered, her whole head is covered. She can barely breathe through her nose.

• 40:22Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't like it.

• 40:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Everything's covered. It's the worst. It's so claustrophobic. It's like.

• 40:29Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's such a psychotic move to do to someone.

• 40:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. It's insane and it's incredibly dehumanizing. It's like this person that I'm attacking isn't a person.

• 40:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 40:38Karen Kilgariff?

  It's crazy. And it's something that, that Andrew Cunanan did as well.

• 40:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 40:46Karen Kilgariff?

  So not a good sign. If you're doing what Andrew Cunanan does, I'm not on your side.

• 40:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Immediate fail.

• 40:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, okay. So now it's going to get worse squeamish people. If you, if you suddenly thought that you were somehow in a landing place, you aren't.

• 40:59Georgia Hardstark?

  I did. I'm not.

• 41:00Karen Kilgariff?

  No, go back to being on your toes. So Teka, this is how she explains it on the show. She just says, she wraps her head in duct tape and then she just starts cutting.

• 41:15Karen Kilgariff?

  So she talks, Stephanie stopped, starts at the top of Teka's pelvic area and just starts cutting upward.

• 41:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Fast forward, fast forward, fast forward.

• 41:26Karen Kilgariff?

  This is real life. Uh, but she doesn't have the correct tools. It's not like a surgical cut. She is, she's using fucking kitchen knives and box cutters.

• 41:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Who knows how deep to go? Who knows how, I mean, like, how do you?

• 41:38Karen Kilgariff?

  No, this woman knows nothing. And Teka, this, as she describes it, it's so fucking awful. And she's just like, I could feel every cut.

• 41:46Georgia Hardstark?

  I bet.

• 41:46Karen Kilgariff?

  She felt every single thing this woman did. And she said, she was having, she started to have a hard time breaking Teka's skin.

• 41:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Alright, I'm sweating. I'm sweating.

• 41:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Nose is bad. It's super bad.

• 41:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 41:57Karen Kilgariff?

  So she starts picking at it. Then when she opens the skin, then she's cutting through muscle. It's like, and, and she's just laying there feeling it. Now, this was the part that got tweeted.

• 42:09Georgia Hardstark?

  She's saying this shit on I Survived?

• 42:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. She's telling this story.

• 42:13Georgia Hardstark?

  And they're like leaving all that stuff in?

• 42:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, it's what fucking happened to her and it's what she lived through. She gets to tell it. So, but, but this is the best part. She goes, this whole time this is happening to me, she's playing the Michael Jackson movie, This Is It.

• 42:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 42:27Karen Kilgariff?

  And she's going back to the movie and rewinding it. If it gets to like the Talking Head documentary part, she'll rewind it back to the song performance part. And she said she's blasting the music and just playing the songs over and over.

• 42:41Georgia Hardstark?

  What? It's Michael Jackson.

• 42:42Karen Kilgariff?

  And she said, I'm laying there cut open. Even I'm thinking, why is she playing this over and over? And then she goes, because I hate Michael Jackson anyway. And that's, that's the clip that got sent.

• 42:55Georgia Hardstark?

  That's what I saw. I did not realize how horrifying that quote was.

• 42:58Karen Kilgariff?

  In the middle.

• 42:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Surrounded by what was happening.

• 43:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep. In the middle of that. And also that's that thing where, and it's, I've said this many times about I Survived, that's that thing about the women or men that are on that show, when they tell these stories, they've been through it already.

• 43:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 43:14Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's this proof that you can go through fucking anything and remain resilient and strong and be able to tell your own story.

• 43:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 43:21Karen Kilgariff?

  It's what makes me cry every time. And she's like laughing in the middle of it going, and, but she said, that was the moment where she saw the big picture of what was happening. She said, it blew my mind. Like how insane this, like how insane this is for her. So, so anyway, it's just so crazy. She shits on Michael Jackson. Alright. And then she says it like, anyway, like I don't want to get into that right now.

• 43:44Georgia Hardstark?

  I know everyone's gonna hate me for this.

• 43:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. I know. That's an unpopular opinion.

• 43:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 43:48Karen Kilgariff?

  We'll talk about it later.

• 43:49Georgia Hardstark?

  You can hate whoever you want.

• 43:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Forever.

• 43:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Forever.

• 43:53Karen Kilgariff?

  So when she, so of course eventually she, here she passes out, but even then what I, like the idea that she was awake for that, having those thoughts, like she's a fucking warrior. It's crazy. So when she wakes up, she's on the bed and Stephanie's laying in a fetal position on the floor in front of the doorway in the bedroom.

• 44:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my.

• 44:16Karen Kilgariff?

  So she realizes, Teka realizes, she tries to roll over, like she's like, this might be my chance to get out of here. So she tries to roll over and when she does, the metal bowl is still sitting on the mattress with her. Her wedding ring hits the bowl and makes a ringing sound.

• 44:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no.

• 44:35Karen Kilgariff?

  And she freezes, but Stephanie does not wake up.

• 44:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 44:39Karen Kilgariff?

  So she says, thinks to herself and prays to God, if, if I can just stand up, I'll get out of here. So she pushes her fucking self up and she says, she said she asked God to give her strength from somewhere to just get her in standing position and she fucking does it.

• 44:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 44:56Karen Kilgariff?

  She starts sneaking across the room. She steps over Stephanie.

• 45:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

• 45:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Blood drips onto Stephanie. She freezes, thinking Stephanie's gonna wake up and grab her, but she doesn't. So then she steps the second foot over and starts going up the hallway. Now, the squeamish people who thought things were bad before.

• 45:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no, it's not over.

• 45:21Karen Kilgariff?

  It's, it's gonna get worse for a second and it's very bad. As she's going up the hallway, she's leaning on one wall, getting herself up the hallway, halfway up the hallway. The contents of her torso.

• 45:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 45:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Fall out of her.

• 45:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Karen.

• 45:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 45:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 45:40Karen Kilgariff?

  She picks up.

• 45:42Georgia Hardstark?

  No, stop.

• 45:42Karen Kilgariff?

  She picks it up and she keeps going.

• 45:46Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 45:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. She fucking gets to that front door again, opens all three locks and gets out of the fucking apartment.

• 45:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 46:00Karen Kilgariff?

  It's the worst. It's the worst. She starts yelling for help. She starts knocking on apartment doors. Nobody comes. She makes it down the stairs and at the bottom of the staircase, she passes out. Fucking Stephanie comes out the door, sees her down at the bottom of the stairs, makes her way down, tries to scoop her arms underneath Teka's arms to pull her back up the stairs. And Teka starts fucking fighting. She said she bit her fingers. She fought. She screamed for help. Now a guy fucking finally comes down from the third floor and he's like, what's going on? And fucking Stephanie and her nice, liltie, pretty voice goes, she's delusional

• 46:44Karen Kilgariff?

  and I'm just trying to help her and she's fighting against me.

• 46:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. She's covered in blood and dying.

• 46:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Teka, and she, she says, and she keeps talking over me. But Teka looks up at the man and goes, help me. She's trying to kill me. Then she realizes the man isn't reacting to the situation because she's wearing a navy blue shirt and it's not showing the blood and the shit that's going on under her shirt. So she, as she's looking at him, she pulls her shirt up and she said, the man yelled, I'm calling the cops and ran back upstairs.

• 47:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no.

• 47:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep. And so with that, Stephanie looked at her as, and this is the way Teka says it in the show. She says, she looked at me as if she was saying, I should have killed you. And then she ran away. So now she's just bleeding out on the stairs and the, the EMTs and the firemen come. She's got, somebody comes and leans down next to her and goes, ma'am, are you hurt? Because she has this fucking shirt on that is making everything much more subtle than it is. And she says, yes, she's answering. Yes, I've been beaten and I've been cut and I need help. And then she pulls her shirt up and this, this is Washington DC. I'm sure

• 48:01Karen Kilgariff?

  it wasn't this guy's first day on the job. She said, he looked like he was going to throw up right there. She's rushed into surgery. She has emergency surgery. She wakes up from the surgery, as we know, because again, it's called I Survived. PJ is sitting there by her bedside.

• 48:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, PJ.

• 48:17Karen Kilgariff?

  PJ's there. The first thing she says is, is the baby alive? A nurse walks in to come and check on her. And when she asked the nurse, is her baby alive? The nurse says, you gave birth to an eight pound, two ounce baby girl. So apparently, the baby was balled up way at the top of the womb. So I don't know if that was like a reaction, like a chemical reaction pulled her upward, or if that's just how she was sitting in her stomach. But basically, they couldn't get to her. Oh, also, I just remembered a part that I will not say, but if you think you heard the worst part, you didn't. There was way fucking worse shit.

• 49:00Georgia Hardstark?

  I bet you'll tell me after we record.

• 49:02Karen Kilgariff?

  No, I'm mad at you because I read it. I read it and I'm not gonna

• 49:05Georgia Hardstark?

  I didn't do anything.

• 49:06Karen Kilgariff?

  No, I know. So then in the show, she says, I told them I'm gonna name her Miracle because

• 49:14Georgia Hardstark?

  I was gonna guess Miracle.

• 49:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Were you really?

• 49:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 49:17Karen Kilgariff?

  She says, I'm gonna name her Miracle because I survived and she survived. And fucking, you have to look up, I mean, we'll, we'll post a picture of Miracle. She's got a fucking pacifier in her mouth that says, I heart mommy. And she is this chubby, she, she looks like a picture of a baby.

• 49:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Eight pounds at fucking seven and a half months is a big baby.

• 49:36Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a big fucking baby. And she, she looks like a, she looks a bit like one of those babies in a Target ad. You know, those ones, they just sit them by themselves and you're like, it's just this fully formed baby that's gorgeous. That's what, that's what Miracle Sky looked like, her full name. Okay. Teka's attacker's real name is Veronica Duramas, I guess. She had, she called the cops on herself and they came and picked her up. She pled guilty to assault and she's sentenced to 25 years in jail.

• 50:07Georgia Hardstark?

  That's attempted murder.

• 50:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Well, I guess they couldn't prove attempted murder because there was all these other stories. Because Veronica tried to tell them that she, she offered Teka five grand for her baby. And she basically seeded all this doubt.

• 50:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 50:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is so fucked up because it's like, if that was the deal, first of all, you would not take five grand. And secondly, you'd be like, it's a baby. We should be in like the five digit area. But on top of that, you'd fucking have the baby at nine months in a hospital.

• 50:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 50:40Karen Kilgariff?

  You fucking, all you assholes. Okay, so, so mad. On Monday, January 4th, 2010, 29 year old Teka Adams, which

• 50:48Georgia Hardstark?

  29?

• 50:49Karen Kilgariff?

  I tell you what, and it's, she, if you told me she was 17, I would have believed you. She's, anyway, so jealous. She faces her attacker in court. She goes to the preliminary trial and fucking, when that woman is brought into the courtroom, she looks her in the eye. She bring, she brings Miracle to the preliminary trial. They're sitting there and then she fucking mad dogs her as she comes. Apparently it was very hard and she was really shaken, obviously. She made a full physical recovery though, which I cannot believe.

• 51:21Georgia Hardstark?

  It's insane.

• 51:22Karen Kilgariff?

  It's amazing.

• 51:23Georgia Hardstark?

  So amazing.

• 51:24Karen Kilgariff?

  They must have had insane, amazing doctors, like at whatever that hospital she went to. But, but of course, her emotional recovery took much longer because that's fucking insane. But she brought, oh, I just had this part of the news. So I read an article about how, about that afterwards. She brought, Miracle was dressed in a pink outfit with matching mittens, booties and a, booties and a hat. And so, Teka didn't have to testify against that woman. It was just to, they were just figuring out if there was enough evidence to bring it all to trial.

• 51:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 52:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And in the, at the time, public defender, Kim Robinson, tried to argue that the attempted first degree murder charge that they tried to bring against her wouldn't hold up because there was no evidence that Duramas intended to kill Teka.

• 52:16Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, come on.

• 52:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Two box cutters? What the fuck?

• 52:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, from the blood loss alone, she would have died.

• 52:23Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, nothing about it is saying she didn't want her dead.

• 52:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 52:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Luckily, Prince George County District Judge Thurman H. Rhodes disagreed, found sufficient probable cause for all charges. And she ended up, Veronica ended up going to jail. And her, and Teka's father, Gregory Burnett, was also there. And he told reporters, Teka's my youngest daughter, so I felt like she was trying to take my baby. Which is, I mean, let's all cry for 95 fucking different reasons.

• 52:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Can we?

• 52:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Of course, at the end of I Survived, as we all know, they make you say why you think you survived. That's like the speech everyone gives. And this is what Teka said. I survived because I was coming to a point in my life where I started to love myself and respect myself and cherish life. And I survived because of God and my support system. I know a lot of people love me and I know that God loves me. And like they say, God looks after babies and fools. And I had a baby and I was a fool.

• 53:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God.

• 53:30Karen Kilgariff?

  And then she goes, yep. And

• 53:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Is she crying when she says all this?

• 53:35Karen Kilgariff?

  I can't, she doesn't really cry that much in this. I cried the whole fucking time.

• 53:40Georgia Hardstark?

  You're crying right now.

• 53:41Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm crying now. And when she gives this speech at the end, she just has that, she's been through everything. It's like she's been through everything. And now here she is, wearing this fucking rad blue shirt, looking gorgeous. It's so crazy.

• 53:55Georgia Hardstark?

  That's fucking gnarly.

• 53:57Karen Kilgariff?

  And the last, the very last card that comes up says, Teka and her family now live in an apartment in Washington DC.

• 54:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, good.

• 54:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Come on. And that is Teka Adams' story of survival that I love.

• 54:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Karen.

• 54:14Karen Kilgariff?

  God bless. Once again, Charlotte White, you made it happen. You gave me the idea. Thank you.

• 54:19Georgia Hardstark?

  That was great. Okay, we're back. Karen, any case updates?

• 54:25Karen Kilgariff?

  There are no updates for Teka's case, but it is interesting. I have covered a different attempt at a fetal abduction case, which was the survival story of Sarah Brady from episode 23. But recently Netflix released a documentary titled Maternal Instinct that everyone's been talking about.

• 54:44Georgia Hardstark?

  I totally watched it.

• 54:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. But this fake pregnancy scheme resulted in the murder of 21 year old Reagan Simmons Hancock.

• 54:52Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a really, it's a really heartbreaking story. I was hesitant to watch the documentary because it's just such a horrifying crime. But I mean, it is a good show in that it's like, just mind boggling how someone could do these things.

• 55:05Karen Kilgariff?

  And these women who get obsessed with having a baby, taking a baby. It's such a strange, foreign thing. But according to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, there were 21 documented fetal abduction cases in the United States between 1987 and 2022. And 19 of those ended with the pregnant woman being killed. Yes.

• 55:29Georgia Hardstark?

  That seems like so much of a larger number than I would have guessed.

• 55:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. Like, the Sarah Brady case, I thought was a one off.

• 55:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 55:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Than the Teka Adams case where it's like, oh my God.

• 55:38Georgia Hardstark?

  There's two of these.

• 55:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. And now it's like, oh no, there have been more than anyone wants to even consider.

• 55:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Terrifying.

• 55:46Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just, it's just crazy. Okay. So let's get into Georgia's story from this episode. And it is the West Mesa Bone Collector.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency? We need help. They're everywhere. We think they're murder wantons. 911 Nashville returns.

• 56:11Speaker 03

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• 56:14Speaker 01

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• 56:17Speaker 03

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• 56:24Speaker 01

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• 56:34Karen Kilgariff?

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• 57:23Georgia Hardstark?

  All right.

• 57:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 57:26Georgia Hardstark?

  My turn.

• 57:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Do it.

• 57:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Here we go.

• 57:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Roll up those sleeves like a member of a gang from The Outsiders and really give me this story.

• 57:34Georgia Hardstark?

  You're just saying that because I'm wearing overall shorts for some reason. What is wrong with me?

• 57:39Karen Kilgariff?

  George is wearing overall shorts like the most precious little kindergartner I've ever seen.

• 57:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Here's the problem. I saw some Instagram fashion influencers wearing these and I was like, they look so cute. And now I got them and I'm like, oh no, I am not that.

• 57:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Are you having influencer envy?

• 57:59Georgia Hardstark?

  I think I am.

• 58:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I'd like to say, oh, I think it's going to be roughly five words to you.

• 58:04Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 58:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Compare and despair. That's three words.

• 58:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 58:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Compare and despair.

• 58:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 58:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't compare yourself to other people because then you will despair.

• 58:14Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm like, I'm already doing that.

• 58:15Karen Kilgariff?

  No, no.

• 58:16Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm on it.

• 58:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't compare or you'll despair.

• 58:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, there we go.

• 58:19Karen Kilgariff?

  I think they tried to get it down as short as possible.

• 58:20Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, I'm not comparing. I just also don't think these look good on me. You know what I mean? Like specifically me, I'm fine with it.

• 58:26Karen Kilgariff?

  I've only seen you sitting down in them. I need, I need to see you mingle around at a party.

• 58:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 58:31Karen Kilgariff?

  But I think you can pull that off.

• 58:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, this is, you've got fucking bangs back, pigtails, no makeup with my sleeves rolled up. All right, let me do this.

• 58:40Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm wearing a shirt that I have worn, I wore it in the video that we posted for the fans. I've worn it pretty much every day since that video was made. It's covered in dog hair. I don't owe anybody anything.

• 58:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen, I'm gonna, five, five words. If it's not broken, why do you need to change it? It's fine. Everything's fine. Just like give it a quick lint roll, maybe throw it in the dryer and everything's fine.

• 59:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Four, five.

• 59:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 59:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Nice. Let's make it, that's the new shirt.

• 59:07Georgia Hardstark?

  That's the new shirt that you have to wear every day. Says that on it. Yes.

• 59:13Karen Kilgariff?

  And we will print the shirt and there will be a dog hair on the print of the shirt. So you'll never be able to lint roll it off.

• 59:19Georgia Hardstark?

  It'll be printed into the ink.

• 59:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Cat and dog.

• 59:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Each one of our pets will contribute a hair.

• 59:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 59:26Georgia Hardstark?

  To the printing of the shirt.

• 59:27Karen Kilgariff?

  George can't wait to donate all of her hair and some of her fingernails.

• 59:31Georgia Hardstark?

  We're gonna shave all our pets. Let's do that. We're gonna have a video listening to join the fan cult because there's gonna be a video of us shaving our pets.

• 59:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, you're gonna love it.

• 59:39Georgia Hardstark?

  It's gonna be glorious. Anywho.

• 59:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Anyhow.

• 59:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's do this.

• 59:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 59:46Georgia Hardstark?

  All right. This murder or collection of murders.

• 59:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 59:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Has a very chilling name. You know this one. It's the West Mesa Bone Collector.

• 59:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, fuck.

• 59:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep.

• 59:59Karen Kilgariff?

  I know of it, but I'm confusing it with all those bodies in Juarez. Like I'm thinking of the Southwest and skeleton.

• 1:00:07Georgia Hardstark?

  And the Long Island serial killer too, right? Like the collection of bodies.

• 1:00:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:00:12Georgia Hardstark?

  That kind of thing. All right, well, I'm just gonna do this time the West Mesa serial killer.

• 1:00:17Karen Kilgariff?

  No, you have to do all the cases I mentioned or this is not real.

• 1:00:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Buckle up everyone, I'm doing all of them. Or this isn't real. Or this is a different plane of existence.

• 1:00:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Or reality is cancelled.

• 1:00:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Reality is cancelled. Next, next shirt.

• 1:00:32Karen Kilgariff?

  All right.

• 1:00:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Mid 2005, Karen, Detective Ida Lopez is the only missing persons detective for Albuquerque, New Mexico, which is the largest city in New Mexico with about half a million people. In Albuquerque, the rate of violent crime is more than double the national average.

• 1:00:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh shit, I didn't know that.

• 1:00:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, there's a lot of it.

• 1:00:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Isn't Albuquerque like where, like Better Call Saul takes place and stuff?

• 1:00:57Georgia Hardstark?

  And even before that, Breaking Bad.

• 1:00:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, for real?

• 1:01:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Oh yeah, Breaking Bad is like.

• 1:01:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Breaking Bad really brought Albuquerque to the fore.

• 1:01:04Georgia Hardstark?

  It really did. It's a fucking excellent, crazy show.

• 1:01:07Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so good.

• 1:01:08Georgia Hardstark?

  But it does, yeah.

• 1:01:09Karen Kilgariff?

  But there's some shit going down in Albuquerque.

• 1:01:11Georgia Hardstark?

  There's shit going down, like balanced with a kind of suburban, normal, it's like a really, it seemed like a really weird city in that it's some really horrible, dangerous, scary shit going on.

• 1:01:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Right outside the development of the housing development.

• 1:01:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly. People trying to razor, like, you know, any city but double Z's in this one.

• 1:01:31Karen Kilgariff?

  But I wonder if that's changed since 2005.

• 1:01:33Georgia Hardstark?

  I bet it has and I, I hope people tell us.

• 1:01:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Stephen will give us a birthday report about Albuquerque's current crime right after this murder.

• 1:01:42Georgia Hardstark?

  We need you to dress up like Albuquerque. This is gonna be like a show and tell for school.

• 1:01:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Can I just, sorry, but can I just tell you this really?

• 1:01:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Are you gonna tell me about how the one country that was left when you had to do your presentation in elementary school was?

• 1:01:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Was Iceland?

• 1:01:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Iceland.

• 1:01:56Karen Kilgariff?

  I've already told you that four times, so you don't need to hear that again. No, when my, when my sister and Nora were just visiting me, there was, we were at.

• 1:02:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Nora's your 10 year old niece, just so everyone knows.

• 1:02:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep. And we were at Wood Ranch Grill and the kids menu had a, had a quiz of testing you on state capitals. And my sister and I couldn't stop laughing because in sixth grade, when my sister was in sixth grade, she had to get tested on state capitals. So she, on our family's brand new stereo where she plugged in a microphone that came with the kit.

• 1:02:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god, the first podcast ever made.

• 1:02:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly. And it's a cassette tape that my sister recorded and talked into this, into this microphone where she recited every state alphabetically and its state capital and then listened to the tape. So both of us know state capitals because.

• 1:02:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Brilliant.

• 1:02:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:47Georgia Hardstark?

  That's how I learned too, is just repetition.

• 1:02:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Did you record it like that and listen to yourself?

• 1:02:51Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't think we had those capabilities in a hard, stark household.

• 1:02:54Karen Kilgariff?

  We were pretty high end.

• 1:02:55Georgia Hardstark?

  You were pretty rich, Karen, is what you're bragging about.

• 1:02:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Incredibly rich. If you, if you leave today's podcast with anything, please know that we were definitely the one percent.

• 1:03:04Georgia Hardstark?

  The kill garrets were moneyed.

• 1:03:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Not in the least, but, but we're laughing and then Nora starts testing us on state capitals and my sister knew all of them and I, I was making up cities and I was like, wait, I was just there. I, I looked at the Capitol building, like have no recall whatsoever.

• 1:03:23Georgia Hardstark?

  You seizure that away a long time ago.

• 1:03:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you.

• 1:03:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Sorry, I was gonna say drank that away, but then I was like, that's not as nice. Something she can't control like the seizures is nicer.

• 1:03:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you is like not an accusation. It's more of like, poor you, you lost all your state capitals when those seizures hit.

• 1:03:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And you know what? In solidarity, I did the same thing with you. I just lost them all.

• 1:03:41Karen Kilgariff?

  You induced some seizures in yourself?

• 1:03:43Georgia Hardstark?

  No, no, I just don't know the state capitals.

• 1:03:44Karen Kilgariff?

  That, that's friendship.

• 1:03:46Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 1:03:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you.

• 1:03:48Georgia Hardstark?

  You're welcome.

• 1:03:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, bye.

• 1:03:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Bye. Uh, bup, bup, bup. Okay, let's go back to.

• 1:03:53Karen Kilgariff?

  You just started, I'm sorry.

• 1:03:54Georgia Hardstark?

  No, it's okay. So Albuquerque, it's gonna get dark, not violent, but dark. All right, a couple of weeks, okay. So Detective Ida Lopez, this badass woman, she, a couple of weeks after being assigned to the missing persons department, the only person in missing department.

• 1:04:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is crazy.

• 1:04:09Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. After having been in vice and a patrol officer for years, she noticed that women with similar backgrounds had been vanishing from Albuquerque. All women were, all the women were in their twenties and thirties with similar looks and arrest records for sex work and drugs. And they'd all vanished without word to their families, all of them. After a couple of months of compiling a list, there were five missing women with similar, similar profiles. And they were all known to hang out in a fucking, like in Albuquerque, which has, as I said, violent crime more than double the national average, this part of Albuquerque, that's the most dangerous part called the war zone.

• 1:04:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh no.

• 1:04:52Georgia Hardstark?

  So they were all known to hang out there.

• 1:04:53Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 1:04:54Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. What hindered her research was that some had already been missing for over a year due to their transient lifestyles. So by, by the time their parents and families reported them missing, or who were really the only people who would report them missing, they had been used to not seeing them for weeks and months and so didn't know how long they had been gone for.

• 1:05:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 1:05:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Plus, since they had no regular schedules, it was hard to track down when and where they had last been seen. And they also supported their drug habit with sex work off of the street. So they would come into contact regularly with strangers that couldn't be like tracked down and questioned and, you know, that sort of thing. So when Ida, who's this wonderful woman who doesn't, you know, isn't biased by the fact that they are sex workers, she's like, ready to look into this. She hits the street to find out if there were any rumors of the women's whereabouts. And when she does this, she hears a rumor that the girls, some of the girls had been killed and were buried on the West Mesa.

• 1:05:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Hmm.

• 1:05:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Like this is a rumor going around and the West Mesa is a vast desert just on the outskirts of the city. So Detective Lopez didn't have much more to go on, but just in case, she did collect DNA and dental records from the women's families, just in case, which of course scared the shit out of the families.

• 1:06:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I bet.

• 1:06:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, let's see, da, da, da, da, but it wasn't really a huge story.

• 1:06:17Karen Kilgariff?

  As it never is.

• 1:06:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:06:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Sex workers and people that quote unquote. Have high risk lifestyles.

• 1:06:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly. And, and so nobody but Detective Lopez and the families of the missing girls were really concerned about the disappearances of by 2007, what had become more than a dozen women on her list. I think it's like 16. It's hard to find an exact number, but it's around 16 women on her list of potentially related cases of missing women in the city between 2001 and 2006. So she's the only person who had noticed a pattern, put them together and it's kind of doing whatever she can to investigate it. Okay. So that was 2007. All right. Then in early February 2009, the case breaks wide fucking open when a woman named Christine Ross,

• 1:07:08Georgia Hardstark?

  she's walking her dog named Ruka, that's her dog's name. They're near their new build house on the outskirts of Albuquerque in the area known as West Mesa. So Christine likes to take Ruka to an area that was once meant for new housing, but had been abandoned during the 2008 economy crash, which we all know about. So all these fucking, do we all know? So all these mortgages, all this fucking shit went bust. All this new construction stopped being built because everyone was like, the housing market's going to be huge. And then, no, everything is wrong. Let's not blame the banks. Let's fucking make poor, regular, normal people who couldn't afford the mortgages they shouldn't have been given in the fucking first place.

• 1:07:51Karen Kilgariff?

  All a scam.

• 1:07:51Georgia Hardstark?

  It's all a scam. Everything's a scam.

• 1:07:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Go watch Adam McKay's movie. What's it fucking called? Oh, damn it, Stephen.

• 1:08:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Look it up. Everything's a scam. Don't buy into it. The end. Okay.

• 1:08:04Karen Kilgariff?

  The Big Short. Is that what it's called? Will you double check me? It's such a good movie. It's about that exact thing where 10 years ago, we were living in the craziest world.

• 1:08:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Isn't that crazy? 10 years ago?

• 1:08:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Well, more, right? Cause if it was 2007 or eight.

• 1:08:19Georgia Hardstark?

  2008 when the bust happened.

• 1:08:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, 10 years ago. Exactly. Yeah, it's The Big Short. Yeah, watch The Big Short by Adam McKay. It's amazing.

• 1:08:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, I'm gonna watch it. All right. Everything's a fucking scam. It's all a lie. The American Dream, etc. Anyways, da, da, da, da, da. Okay. So she liked to go over to this area where the, where the housing development had never started, had been abandoned because of the crash. And she would, it's now a death, desolate swath of land. My words, obviously.

• 1:08:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Your word, not a cut and paste word?

• 1:08:51Georgia Hardstark?

  And she'd let Ruka off his leash to run around in the desert, hard desert sand, right? So that day, and it's like tumbleweedy, you know, we, we can imagine it.

• 1:09:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Cow skull.

• 1:09:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Cow skull with a skull on its head.

• 1:09:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Maybe, maybe a tiny bit of treasure sticking out of the sand.

• 1:09:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Well.

• 1:09:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no shit. Sorry. I'm gonna stop talking.

• 1:09:13Georgia Hardstark?

  No, cuz you're not wrong.

• 1:09:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no.

• 1:09:17Georgia Hardstark?

  That day Christine noticed Ruka digging. And when she approached him, she realized he was trying to uncover something out of the sand. And it looked like a bone. But she said it didn't look like an animal bone. So concerned, she took a photo of it and sent it to none other than her own sister, who was a nurse. And her nurse sister was like, yeah, dude, that's a femur. Call the fucking cops. Yeah. So the detectives arrived. They confirmed that the bone was human and they begin to process what would become the largest crime scene in Albuquerque history.

• 1:09:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh shit.

• 1:09:51Georgia Hardstark?

  This is partly because when construction had started for the housing development, the land had been upturned and disturbed. So they were preparing the land for the housing development.

• 1:10:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 1:10:00Georgia Hardstark?

  So because of this, a lot of the bones had been broken and scattered, which is one of the reasons it became a large crime scene. But also because by the time the detectives were finished processing the crime scene, two and a half months later, 206 bones of 11 female bodies and one unborn child had been found buried at the site.

• 1:10:22Karen Kilgariff?

  11?

• 1:10:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:24Karen Kilgariff?

  12 altogether?

• 1:10:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck.

• 1:10:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. So as the digging is underway, and the media is obviously fucking losing their shit over this, the bones begin to be identified. And this is the order they're identified in. The first to be identified is Victoria Chavez, who was 26. She was the first woman to be identified. Just said that. Victoria's mother had reported her missing in March 2005, after she hadn't seen her in more than a year. So this, this is the kind of, as I said, the unfortunate circumstances behind this is because they were, a lot of them, I think, drug addicts. They weren't around their families a lot. They were on the streets.

• 1:11:07Karen Kilgariff?

  A lot of them run away from their families.

• 1:11:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly. Yeah. And so, I mean, if you've seen any fucking episode of Intervention, you know what happens. You know, this could have easily been me or you. These are people who become addicted to drugs. They turn to sex work to fund those drugs. They fall into the bad crowd, bad boyfriend. These things happen, you know?

• 1:11:29Karen Kilgariff?

  They paint themselves into kind of like a bad corner, maybe. There's all, but there's, it's the thing, and I think I've said it to you a million times, where it's that when you, when you are watching a true crime show and the people, the family and the different people say, we knew there was a problem when we didn't hear from her the next day because she would never do that.

• 1:11:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:11:46Karen Kilgariff?

  And every time it gives me the chills because I'm like, I don't call my family so much that they're used to me not calling.

• 1:11:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:53Karen Kilgariff?

  And that's how they know I'm a flake and I'm that person.

• 1:11:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:11:57Karen Kilgariff?

  So like that's, there's lots of us that are like that anyway.

• 1:12:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. And it's like, you can't underestimate, you can't, we can't understate how addicting drugs and alcohol is when you have a life that you're trying to escape.

• 1:12:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Even when you're not, it's just whatever. Okay. So the second person to be identified is Michelle Valdez. She's a 22 year old mother. Her father, Dan, had reported her missing in 2005. Michelle had gotten pregnant at 13 years old. Can you fucking believe that? And later began taking drugs and was disappearing for months at a time. After her bones were found, it was discovered that she was pregnant with a four month old unborn baby, or four months pregnant. I know. Michelle's family had heard that her friend of hers from the streets, they didn't know her, 32 year old Cinnamon Elks had gone missing along with Michelle at the same time. This is before they knew what had happened to her. And they had heard the rumor that Michelle

• 1:12:56Georgia Hardstark?

  and Cinnamon were buried on the Mesa. So Cinnamon's body was the third to be ID'd. And Cinnamon's mother had reported her missing when she didn't hear from her daughter on her birthday in August 2004. So next was Julie Nieto. She was 23 when she disappeared. She had become addicted to drugs at 19. And when her mother last saw her in August 2004, she reported her missing because she stopped sending birthday and Christmas presents to her young son.

• 1:13:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no.

• 1:13:27Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. It's like the things that you realize are off and why. And that's, that's the last thing you have. And you know, it's so sad. So Monica Candelara had also, also had a son and was reported missing May 11, 2003. Sheriff's detectives had also heard a rumor that she had been killed and buried on the Mesa. So the cops knew about this rumor, but nothing came of it. Mesa was fucking huge. And her case had been given to the cold case unit. Okay. So Veronica Romero's family reported her missing on February 15, 2004. She had four children. So at this point, when Veronica's found or identified, at the news conference

• 1:14:11Georgia Hardstark?

  for her and Monica, the fifth victim ID'd, Albuquerque Police Chief Ray Schultz, so he'd been holding press conferences as the woman had been ID'd. So each time someone's ID'd, he holds a press conference. The press are fucking eating it up. He had been making it clear at every press conference that the women had all, and had been saying that they had arrest records for drug and sex works. And they had mentioned it early and often that that was the case with these women. And this press conference that he does for Veronica and Monica is the first time, and the first press conference where he refers to the women as victims.

• 1:14:52Karen Kilgariff?

  The first time.

• 1:14:54Karen Kilgariff?

  After how many?

• 1:14:55Georgia Hardstark?

  So they're the fifth and sixth to be reported. So I think a couple of them had been announced together.

• 1:15:02Karen Kilgariff?

  They were almost making it sound the first four, like these were just the bodies.

• 1:15:07Georgia Hardstark?

  We found the bodies of these sex workers, which is obviously not the word they used.

• 1:15:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 1:15:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Not the word that is used in any of the articles and fucking the shit I watched, obviously. But you know, we're new to that, too.

• 1:15:19Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a developing change, but also just that idea that it's the, what he's not saying, but what's implied is, and this is what happens when you live that way. So it's not, they're not victims and we're not, it's not a concern.

• 1:15:35Georgia Hardstark?

  But he's also saying to the community who he knows are going to be flipping the fuck out and saying to him, what are you going to do about this? How are you going to solve this? If he doesn't, if he, if he doesn't imply that it's partly their fault. So they just think that some fucking murderer is out there killing these young mothers and these young women and not telling everyone that they lived this lifestyle that's quote, high risk.

• 1:15:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 1:15:58Georgia Hardstark?

  So calm down, don't worry and don't get mad at us.

• 1:16:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 1:16:01Georgia Hardstark?

  So this is, I, it's just the first time that they are referred to as victims is so horrible.

• 1:16:07Karen Kilgariff?

  It's injustice and it's those, it's. A disservice to the first four victims.

• 1:16:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. So, Doreen Marquez, she, so this woman's interesting and it's just another one of these stories that there's so much more to all of these women's background than you can ever imagine. And they're not just drug addicts and sex workers. So, Doreen had been a cheerleader in high school. She was a devoted mother and she didn't start using drugs till later in her twenties. Her boyfriend had been put in jail. Her home life went to shit. Not long after, at around 27 years old, her family reported her missing in December 2004. So then, the eighth victim to be ID'd, Solania Edwards. She is different than the rest of the victims in a couple of ways.

• 1:16:54Georgia Hardstark?

  First, she was the only victim not known to have friends and family in Albuquerque. So she wasn't from Albuquerque. Her family wasn't there. She kind of had come in randomly from Oklahoma. So she was 15 years old where she, and she had run away from foster care. She had a clearly really sad circumstances in her life. She didn't know her dad. Her mom died when she was five and she was in foster care. She ran away. She's also the only African American victim. Everyone else is white or mostly Hispanic. And it was determined that she was traveling on the I-40 corridor, you know, the Interstate 40. As a sex worker, and I guess that's known as a circuit girl.

• 1:17:35Georgia Hardstark?

  I think it's kind of that truck stop to truck stop thing of, you know, and I think you also do it with like a lot of, a couple of other girls. It's not just you alone.

• 1:17:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:17:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is interesting.

• 1:17:45Karen Kilgariff?

  That's smart.

• 1:17:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:46Karen Kilgariff?

  To not do it for sure.

• 1:17:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. But she'd still go alone with.

• 1:17:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:17:50Georgia Hardstark?

  So, then is, and they were hoping that because she was different from the rest of the victims, that that might help lead to who's doing this, but it, nothing ever came of it. So, Virginia Ann Cloven was 23. She was reported missing in October 2004. She had run away from home when she was 17 after her brother had been shot and killed. And she had been forced to live on the street later when her live-in boyfriend had been hit by a car and was hospitalized.

• 1:18:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh my God.

• 1:18:18Georgia Hardstark?

  I know, this poor fucking baby. Her family had last heard from her in June 2004 when she called to say that she had a new boyfriend who had just gotten out of prison and that she was going to marry him. Number 10 is Evelyn Salazar, who's 23, also a mother. Her family reported her missing on April 3rd, 2004. And she had, okay, this is weird. She had been last seen about a week earlier with her 15-year-old cousin, Jamie Barella, who was the last victim to be ID'd.

• 1:18:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:18:50Georgia Hardstark?

  So, Jamie Barella was 15. She was a high school student and she, unlike the other West Mesa victims, she had no known sex crime or drug arrests and she wasn't known to be in that world. But her cousin, whose body was ID'd with her, Evelyn Salazar, was. And they were last seen together heading from a family picnic to another park. So, you know, you gotta wonder what happened. She's with her older cousin. They, someone pulls up who maybe her cousin from the sex working trade knows. He's a friendly John. Maybe they go to hang out with him. You know, like, who fucking knows what happened?

• 1:19:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, that opens it up too. And she's like just a high school girl. So it could be.

• 1:19:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:19:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Can you drive her home? Also, this, what drives me crazy too, is like, as you said, like, we were both drug addicts ourselves. I think if you polled most people, we'd find out they were addicted to something.

• 1:19:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:45Karen Kilgariff?

  So this idea that these sex workers and these, the way drug addict sounds to the ear, because we've been hearing it for 40 years with this thing of, oh, the drug addict. Oh, you know what I mean?

• 1:19:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Without knowing the nuances of what brings you to drug addiction and sex work.

• 1:20:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And how many people are secret drug addicts that are like, well, you can put on your pretty pink, you know, sweater set and go to the mall and just slightly slur and nobody cares.

• 1:20:08Georgia Hardstark?

  And be a fucking Adderall drug addict and like.

• 1:20:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, or the fucking OxyContin thing that's taking over the nation where it's just like, we have to stop making it sound like drug addicts are thrilled to be that way. And they're like, yeah, fucking party on, because that's not the case. It's not, once you start, that's the whole thing about fucking drugs is a lot of times you cannot stop.

• 1:20:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, that's addiction too. I mean, love addiction, sex addiction, all these things where you make terrible choices in your life. And, you know, because.

• 1:20:37Karen Kilgariff?

  You don't deserve to die.

• 1:20:38Georgia Hardstark?

  It's not you. It's not you anymore.

• 1:20:40Karen Kilgariff?

  And you don't deserve to be fucking killed or victimized.

• 1:20:42Georgia Hardstark?

  No. Um, I mean, yeah, all right.

• 1:20:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Now I'm talking to you in this tone of voice that does, it's not.

• 1:20:48Georgia Hardstark?

  It's not at me. You're talking to the, you're talking to everyone else listening.

• 1:20:51Karen Kilgariff?

  So frustrating. They all know.

• 1:20:52Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. All right. You're telling Stephen.

• 1:20:57Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm tired of, I'm tired of you denying that.

• 1:20:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Stephen, you're, just because you're addicted to Hello Kitty cake. No. He's eaten the whole thing. We've just watched him eat the entire thing during this episode.

• 1:21:07Karen Kilgariff?

  He's, I respect.

• 1:21:09Georgia Hardstark?

  It's impressive.

• 1:21:10Karen Kilgariff?

  I kind of respect.

• 1:21:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, with his hands.

• 1:21:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:11Georgia Hardstark?

  It's pretty great. Um, buh buh buh buh, okay. So, it took Albuquerque police nearly a year to identify all of the victims. All of the women were between ages of 15 and 32 and most were Hispanic. The women had gone missing between 2001 and 2005. $100,000 award for assistance to the arrest was assistance to arrest them, whatever was offered. And detectives would only give the cause of death as homicidal violence. I think wanting to keep all that shit under wraps.

• 1:21:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:42Georgia Hardstark?

  So, here are the suspects. Police started looking for men who lived in the area with a history of violence against sex workers. Turns out to be a really long fucking list.

• 1:21:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Of course. They also created a timeline using satellite images. So, this is fucking creepy and crazy and you can see this shit online and maybe we'll post it. In 2002, they show like the Google Earth image where they show the huge patch of, what did I call it? Desolate swath of land?

• 1:22:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it's a swath.

• 1:22:14Georgia Hardstark?

  A swath of desert land. And whatever, nothing unusual. But then the satellite imagery taken in 2003 shows tire marks leading to patches of disturbed soil in the area where the remains were recovered. So essentially you can track someone driving up, fucking digging a ditch, putting a body in and covering it back up. You see these like squares of disturbed earth. And the way that that book I love, No Stone in Turn, tells you how you could find clandestine graves based on the soil and that sort of thing.

• 1:22:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Then in 2000 and, uh, da da da da, more tire marks and bare spots showing up in 2005. So they have this image of this timeline of this person going there and coming back.

• 1:23:03Karen Kilgariff?

  And is that, can they see the person or it's just they can just tell by the topography of it?

• 1:23:07Georgia Hardstark?

  It's the topography. It's, you know, snapshots taken. Unfortunately, there was no cars when they took the photo, which sucks.

• 1:23:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Tiny, tiny man.

• 1:23:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, right. In 2005, the marks stopped changing. So they think that that's because the killer had to stop using that area because new estates had begun to be built in the area and people would have seen him coming and going. But then everyone's always like, imagine if the economy hadn't crashed, they would have just built fucking houses over these bodies. And imagine how many places that that actually happened. I mean.

• 1:23:38Karen Kilgariff?

  No, let's not imagine that.

• 1:23:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's stay up all night.

• 1:23:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:23:43Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, so the two main suspects, here they are. The first main suspect is a man named Lorenzo Montoya. He lived in a mobile home less than three miles, and it's really like two miles from the burial site up until his death in 2006. Lorenzo was a short but really powerfully built man. I saw a photo of him, dead fucking eyes, like the deadest eyes. He was in his 30s when the killings occurred and had been arrested multiple times for solicitation. In 1999, he had picked up a 23-year-old sex worker who was being watched by the vice unit. And I don't even think she knew.

• 1:24:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:24:19Georgia Hardstark?

  They were just like, let's track her.

• 1:24:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, when they followed Lorenzo's truck with the sex worker in the car, they followed them to an isolated spot and police interrupted them after Lorenzo had already sexually assaulted her and while he was fucking trying to strangle her.

• 1:24:38Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 1:24:39Georgia Hardstark?

  So he's strangling her and the cops like fucking knock on the window.

• 1:24:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Jesus Christ.

• 1:24:44Georgia Hardstark?

  She told police that Lorenzo looked like he was enjoying strangling her.

• 1:24:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh my God.

• 1:24:48Georgia Hardstark?

  And she was convinced he was going to kill her if the police hadn't intervened. Unfortunately, the case was dismissed because the victim didn't want to testify against him, which is heartbreaking. In 2006, there were reportedly tire tracks leading from his trailer to the site of the dead, of the bodies, but I only saw that in a couple of places. So I don't know if that's actually true.

• 1:25:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 1:25:11Georgia Hardstark?

  All right. December 2006, Lorenzo had solicited a 19-year-old woman named Sharika Hill via a chatroom to come to his mobile home for a private dance. Once she was in his mobile home, Lorenzo bound her hands and feet with duct tape, then strangled her to death in what police called a brutal, quote, brutal, orchestrated and very violent way.

• 1:25:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:25:35Georgia Hardstark?

  But Lorenzo didn't know that Sharika had brought her boyfriend, Frederick Williams, with her for protection. So after waiting outside for an hour in his car, Frederick gets worried, goes to knock on the door of the mobile home. And so this is kind of, I've read two different accounts of this. Either Lorenzo was dragging Sharika's body to his car or Lorenzo just burst out with a gun. And Frederick, the boyfriend, fucking shot and killed Lorenzo.

• 1:26:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Holy fuck.

• 1:26:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So, and here's another fucking great thing.

• 1:26:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Can I just say one thing?

• 1:26:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:12Karen Kilgariff?

  This is starting to sound insanely familiar.

• 1:26:14Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, I know you know this.

• 1:26:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Right, but we didn't do it, did we?

• 1:26:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't ever say that again. I don't care if it's true.

• 1:26:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Maybe it was because we were in New Mexico and so I read it.

• 1:26:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Maybe, but it also, parts of this were covered in The Long Island Serial Killer, that documentary.

• 1:26:30Karen Kilgariff?

  That's what it is.

• 1:26:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:26:31Karen Kilgariff?

  That's what it is.

• 1:26:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, which is, what's it called again? It was so great.

• 1:26:34Karen Kilgariff?

  The Killing Fields?

• 1:26:35Georgia Hardstark?

  The Killing Fields, yes. This is part of that is in there.

• 1:26:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:38Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I was thinking the same thing earlier. I was like, did she? I don't care. I don't care if she did it. So, but here's another in the article from the time I was like looking at, reading an article, the incident, it described, it's described as Lorenzo having quote choked to death a prostitute at his home, then was shot by the woman's pimp. Like that's how it's described in 2006 in the fucking article. Not that this, not their names, not that she wasn't a fucking prostitute. She was going there as a dancer, 19 years old, not that the dude she brought was her boyfriend who she was just like, come, I know this is creepy. Come hang out with me. I just want to make sure I'm safe.

• 1:27:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 1:27:16Georgia Hardstark?

  It's instead choked to death, a prostitute at his home was then, was then shot by the woman's pimp. Like that just implies that it's almost like he's the victim, doesn't it?

• 1:27:25Karen Kilgariff?

  100%. And also it, it's not specific to like, even the police were like, it was extremely violent.

• 1:27:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:27:34Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like, they don't, I don't know why choked to death sounds so much lighter than like the, if the cops are saying extreme violence, why can't the, why can't the newspaper say it?

• 1:27:43Georgia Hardstark?

  And then in this, in all these interviews with the, you know, investigators who now won't say if, you know, he's a major suspect or not, they all say like, well, we would have loved to interview him and we would have loved to have a chance to interrogate him, but we can't. It's almost like they're, they're blaming this guy.

• 1:27:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Frederick Williams, this poor fucking dude who killed him. And it's like, it just sounds accusatory that if he hadn't done that, maybe they would be able to solve it.

• 1:28:07Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean.

• 1:28:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Who pulled a gun, who also had a gun. Like it's just, who just murdered his fucking girlfriend.

• 1:28:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Like his, his girlfriend's murderer.

• 1:28:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:28:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:17Georgia Hardstark?

  So it's just, it's hard.

• 1:28:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:28:20Georgia Hardstark?

  After Lorenzo's killed, the murders stop.

• 1:28:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:28:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I feel like we've solved it.

• 1:28:25Georgia Hardstark?

  I think so too. But here's another suspect.

• 1:28:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:28:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, okay. So, police thought looked good for the murders is a dude named Joseph Blay, B L E A. Seven days after finding the first bone on the mesa, a woman calls detectives to say that they should look at her ex-husband, Joseph Blay. She said that they, uh, she'd found jewelry in the house that didn't belong to her and women's underwear.

• 1:28:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Ooh.

• 1:28:50Georgia Hardstark?

  The women's underwear, like maybe he's a perv and like collects and like saves them, whatever. The jewelry is like, no fucking one's going to be like, yeah, take my jewelry.

• 1:28:58Karen Kilgariff?

  True. I mean, and maybe he collects that too. There's always to do it, but like the combination of the two is not good.

• 1:29:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Never. Listen, oh my God, if you find jewelry in your husband's.

• 1:29:08Karen Kilgariff?

  If you find jewelry, underwear and duct tape in one duffel bag.

• 1:29:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Get the fuck out of town.

• 1:29:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 1:29:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, here, here's this.

• 1:29:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:29:16Georgia Hardstark?

  This dude is a fucking piece of shit. Okay. In the 1980s, Blay had been dubbed, quote, "The mid-school rapist."

• 1:29:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh oh.

• 1:29:24Georgia Hardstark?

  As he would often break into the homes of 13 to 15 year old girls who lived near a middle school in Albuquerque and raped them in the eighties. Between 1990 and 2009, Blay had 130 run-ins with police.

• 1:29:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Fucking A.

• 1:29:38Georgia Hardstark?

  130. He frequented areas that many of the victims were known to hang out and was once found by police in that area with rope and electrical tape in his car. So there you go.

• 1:29:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Shit, there it is. He's got everything we need.

• 1:29:52Georgia Hardstark?

  In one case, the DNA from a 1985 murder of a girl found in Albuquerque was retested, but not until 2010, after someone else had gone to prison for it and found a match Blay. So the guy who was in prison for it was exonerated.

• 1:30:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, good.

• 1:30:08Georgia Hardstark?

  In addition, okay. And this part is, I don't want to know your opinion on this. So a tree tag from a nursery was found in the area where then West Mesa's victims' bodies were buried. And it was tracked down to a nursery in California that Blay had once frequented.

• 1:30:24Georgia Hardstark?

  To me, that's like, you're in an area of, there's trash everywhere. You're, it's also, or there's a new building going on. So plants were probably ordered.

• 1:30:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep, and shipped in.

• 1:30:34Georgia Hardstark?

  And if it's being shipped in, maybe it's from California. That to me is just like a fucking long shot. Unless it's like buried in the dirt with the bodies.

• 1:30:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, but you know, I think if you look at it in the way of if you're a police person that's processing that evidence and when you look it all up and then you're like, oh, this is from, this is from the Sun Valley, um, uh, botanical, whatever.

• 1:30:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, it's from, um, what did I want to call my name? A little shop of horticulture? Or my mom, what my mom owns? My mom, a horticulturist?

• 1:31:08Karen Kilgariff?

  So once they, when they're looking into that and they're like, they call up and then they're like, have you ever heard of this guy's name? And they say yes. I mean, boom, you're like, there's no way that's a coincidence.

• 1:31:18Georgia Hardstark?

  That's very true. It's more circumstantial evidence that will keep you on track, looking into this guy.

• 1:31:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Of course. Also, the idea that anybody hangs out at a nursery, the way you phrased it is like, it's his favorite bar.

• 1:31:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Frequent, yeah.

• 1:31:30Karen Kilgariff?

  I frequent this nursery. I just like to touch jasmine plants. It's what I like.

• 1:31:35Georgia Hardstark?

  I do like to do that.

• 1:31:37Karen Kilgariff?

  They're very silky.

• 1:31:37Georgia Hardstark?

  They are. They smell so good. Okay. So he's now around 60 years old and he's serving 90 years in prison, or he has a 90 year prison sentence for four of the sexual assaults related way back into the 1980s.

• 1:31:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Dude.

• 1:31:51Georgia Hardstark?

  For the mid-school rape cases. He's claimed that he's been with several of the West Mesa victims in the past. Like had, like hired them as sex workers.

• 1:32:00Karen Kilgariff?

  He just brought that up?

• 1:32:01Georgia Hardstark?

  I guess so. Who knows? All right. Six women from Detective Lopez's list of similarly missing women in Albuquerque are still unaccounted for.

• 1:32:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Six.

• 1:32:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Six. The last to go missing was Vanessa Reed in June of 2006, just six months before Lorenzo was shot and killed. Um, in 2014, Detective Lopez retired. She was like, can't, apparently.

• 1:32:27Karen Kilgariff?

  She did plenty.

• 1:32:28Georgia Hardstark?

  She did a lot.

• 1:32:28Karen Kilgariff?

  She fucking nailed it.

• 1:32:29Georgia Hardstark?

  And so there was only one detective left on the case, but then in 2016, Detective Lopez was like, all right, fine. She comes back to work. Uh, I'm putting so many.

• 1:32:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Throws down a dish towel. Fine.

• 1:32:40Georgia Hardstark?

  She's like, there's a Dateline about this case and she's interviewed throughout it and she's just cries. She's lovely. She's just such a clearly a caring woman who, uh, it just wants nothing more than this case to be solved for the families, for the victims. She cares not, you know, about their history. She's just obviously a wonderful woman.

• 1:33:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Can I just say too?

• 1:33:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:03Karen Kilgariff?

  I think the more women that get involved in police work and all this stuff that we all talk about, that I think people are genuinely interested in, but the more they get involved and people like to argue of, oh, political correctness, oh, now we have to say sex worker. Oh, now we can't say prostitute. But if you think about it in that way, that the more people get trained to think of these victims as human fucking beings whose murders need to get solved, not only 100% for the fact that their lives mattered, but also because there is a fucking lunatic killing them, targeting them and killing them.

• 1:33:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Like just the concept has to change so that these creeps can get caught.

• 1:33:42Georgia Hardstark?

  It doesn't come with the job that you might get killed. There are murderers who take advantage of people who are, you know, one would say the most fucking vulnerable.

• 1:33:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, and.

• 1:33:52Georgia Hardstark?

  And know that nobody cares. As a society, we're trained not to give a shit because of words like prostitute and hooker and not saying sex worker.

• 1:34:01Karen Kilgariff?

  And not saying fucking victim.

• 1:34:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:34:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Oh, we know everything.

• 1:34:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Murderinos are on the fucking up and up.

• 1:34:07Karen Kilgariff?

  They really are. And things are absolutely changing quicker than we could know.

• 1:34:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Definitely. Yeah. Um, so she comes back to work, Detective Lopez comes back to work on a contract basis to investigate the murders, partly because they realize how close her relationships are with the victims' families who are so thankful that she's the, you know, cared so much and kept in touch with them and, you know.

• 1:34:30Karen Kilgariff?

  She's like Aaron Brockovich.

• 1:34:31Georgia Hardstark?

  She's Aaron fucking Brockovich.

• 1:34:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:33Georgia Hardstark?

  They, she understands them. Um, and just to end about the victims and how they are deemed less important by society due to their lifestyles, in this, uh, 2020 episode to our friend, David Mankiewicz.

• 1:34:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:47Georgia Hardstark?

  You old so-and-so. Ida Lopez says, "Their soul is no different than mine and they're not any less important to God."

• 1:34:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Hell yes, Ida.

• 1:34:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Ida. So that's, uh, the fucking West Mesa bone collector.

• 1:35:01Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm unbelievable.

• 1:35:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:03Karen Kilgariff?

  I also just thought of this too. A couple of people have tweeted us, at us about this. Also Dave Anthony of, um, uh.

• 1:35:12Georgia Hardstark?

  The Dollop.

• 1:35:12Karen Kilgariff?

  The, thank you. Oh no. Sorry, Dave. Of the Dollop also tweeted at me about this. Um, Trump recently, and this is going to go under the fucking carpet rug because of, because our democracy is imploding. And so there's lots of other things that people, that keep becoming more important. But recently Trump passed a law that is incredibly dangerous for sex workers, saying that they cannot advertise online.

• 1:35:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, right. And they back page.

• 1:35:41Karen Kilgariff?

  They can't back page it. They can't do, um, there's a name for this. Everybody should look it up, but it is, uh, we've, we've been, I was contacted or like tweeted out by a couple of people talking about how bringing this law and needing to overturn. Law is really important because basically if sex workers can't ensure their own safety by knowing that the people that they're doing business with, knowing their names, getting credit card numbers, doing all that stuff.

• 1:36:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Even a phone number, tracing their phone number.

• 1:36:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly. It forces them back onto the street.

• 1:36:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:36:14Karen Kilgariff?

  And it, it puts everybody in a fucking huge danger. And he, Trump called it, it's the Allow States and Victims to Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act, FOSTA, F-O-S-T-A. And it says it aims to fight sex trafficking by reducing legal protections for for online platforms. And it got passed by an overwhelming majority, but privacy and civil liberty advocates say it's a fatally flawed bill that hurts small online communities. And sex workers say it's going to make them less safe because they have to go offline.

• 1:36:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen to the sex workers. They'll tell you what, what is right.

• 1:36:56Karen Kilgariff?

  And also the irony of that man passing a bill like this and pretending that he gives a single shit about sex trafficking and sex workers and women in this kind of community. Just please.

• 1:37:10Georgia Hardstark?

  And we're not talking about sex, about sex trafficking. That is a whole different issue that we a hundred percent know is a big problem and needs to be addressed.

• 1:37:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Everything we talk about

• 1:37:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:20Karen Kilgariff?

  has ripples and rings of bigger issues, but I didn't want, since we're basically exactly talking about this.

• 1:37:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:37:27Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't want to talk about this, first of all, because I hate when we talk about things and I only know half about it.

• 1:37:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:32Karen Kilgariff?

  But I think it's important to mention this now where if this is a concern of yours in any way, you should absolutely look up FOSTA, the FOSTA bill, and do what you can to fight against it because it's incredibly dangerous for sex workers.

• 1:37:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Great. I'm glad you did that. Thank you.

• 1:37:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. And thanks, Dave Anthony, because he, of course, he texted it, texted to me about it at like eight in the morning where I was just like, Dave, I'm so glad you're on the front lines for us.

• 1:37:57Georgia Hardstark?

  He should go to, he did not go to bed the night before, you know it. He's just.

• 1:38:02Karen Kilgariff?

  He's up writing a new dollop about, you know.

• 1:38:06Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 1:38:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:38:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, we're back. Do you have updates for this case?

• 1:38:14Georgia Hardstark?

  I do, actually. On June 27th, 2020, a one acre park named Women's Memorial Park was opened by state officials on the site where the bodies were found as a way to honor the women and their families. There is still a hundred thousand dollar reward for anyone who has tips that could lead to an arrest and conviction for this case. I just, this, whoever, whatever monster is out there who did these things just needs to be caught.

• 1:38:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:39Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so scary.

• 1:38:40Karen Kilgariff?

  So now it's time to get into the fucking hoorays.

• 1:38:49Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:38:52Speaker 01

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder wantons. 911 Nashville returns.

• 1:38:59Speaker 02

  There's a homicide detective down here.

• 1:39:01Speaker 03

  Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:39:02Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:39:05Speaker 03

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 1:39:07Speaker 02

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 1:39:09Speaker 03

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:39:12Speaker 01

  Ryan Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:39:19Karen Kilgariff?

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• 1:40:14Georgia Hardstark?

  And that was great. That's the cue, Elvis's meow is the cue.

• 1:40:18Karen Kilgariff?

  To go into fucking hooray.

• 1:40:19Georgia Hardstark?

  To fucking hooray.

• 1:40:20Karen Kilgariff?

  That was Elvis's small hooray.

• 1:40:22Georgia Hardstark?

  That's just, it's like a doorbell now. Ding dong. Oh.

• 1:40:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Who's there?

• 1:40:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, it's time, Elvis. Elvis is like, shut up.

• 1:40:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, the hooray cats here.

• 1:40:30Georgia Hardstark?

  The hooray cats here. Um, so we, we both have a lighthearted dumb one and then I have a sweet one.

• 1:40:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:40:37Georgia Hardstark?

  That actually has to do with Elvis.

• 1:40:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:40:38Georgia Hardstark?

  So you want to go first?

• 1:40:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Sure. My hoorays for this week. One is, it's, um, I, it was a very difficult week in lots of different ways. And I was spending a lot of time in the morning between like 7:00 AM and 9:00 AM, rattled with anxiety, stress, and rage.

• 1:41:00Georgia Hardstark?

  We've got a lot of going on right now.

• 1:41:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh huh. So one of the mornings, I'd had dinner with Lizzie Cooperman, who was talking about the meditation classes that she's taking and how much she loves it.

• 1:41:14Georgia Hardstark?

  She's so spiritual.

• 1:41:15Karen Kilgariff?

  She's very spiritually, she's universally tapped in.

• 1:41:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, that's enough.

• 1:41:19Karen Kilgariff?

  And I was, so she put it in my head. I had taken classes about it and stuff, but then, so I was watching this show, Ancient Aliens.

• 1:41:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Ooh.

• 1:41:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is one of my faves. And it was talking about how meditation allows your subconscious brain to access the Akashic Record, which is everything that's ever happened in humanity ever. And when you can tap into that, you can tap into creativity. And that's how they were talking about spontaneous ideas, how like Alexander Graham Bell submitted the patent for the telephone and the same day someone else submitted the exact same patent.

• 1:41:52Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 1:41:53Karen Kilgariff?

  And there's all the, they have all the, you have to watch this episode of Ancient Aliens.

• 1:41:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Dude, what's it called? I want to watch it so bad.

• 1:41:58Karen Kilgariff?

  It's, um, it might be called Spontaneous Inventions or something like that, but it basically, the theory, their theory, ancient, ancient astronaut theorists suggest that, that when you rest your brain and let your subconscious, and they showed a guy in an MRI doing this, when your brain rests and you go blank, your unconscious becomes alive and starts actually like doing stuff.

• 1:42:25Georgia Hardstark?

  And because we're fucking AI, we have all the history already downloaded. We just don't ever tap into it. Like, it's already all there.

• 1:42:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:42:32Georgia Hardstark?

  I've got the biggest second conspiracy theory boner right now.

• 1:42:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Also, they showed people who got head injuries. And then when they came out of the hospital, like one guy became a concert pianist and he'd never taken a lesson. There was a guy who could, who could immediately draw these insane, he saw mathematical

• 1:42:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Equations.

• 1:42:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Equations everywhere and could see whatever, what like the diameter was of everything. It's so crazy. So anyway, because of all those things.

• 1:42:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:58Karen Kilgariff?

  I started meditating.

• 1:42:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Yay.

• 1:42:59Karen Kilgariff?

  And I, I've only done it for two days, but it's really great. And I've been using an app called the Insight Timer.

• 1:43:05Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm downloading it.

• 1:43:06Karen Kilgariff?

  It, you can, I've only, I've done two 10-minute meditations. I normally go super crazy about minute four and I have to get up and walk away. But there, if you start with guided meditation.

• 1:43:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I have to do guided. I'm just bananas.

• 1:43:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Then you, you're listening and that's the focus. And you don't have to sit there going, stop talking to yourself and all that shit that makes you crazy.

• 1:43:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:25Karen Kilgariff?

  And you can kind of dip into it. And they have guided meditations about everything, like a million things, guys with British accents. Anyway, so the Insight Timer is awesome.

• 1:43:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Paul Ongens does one.

• 1:43:37Karen Kilgariff?

  That's what I did this morning.

• 1:43:38Georgia Hardstark?

  That's awesome.

• 1:43:39Karen Kilgariff?

  It was really good. But the other thing that's the second piece to that in my relaxation, I found this show, and I'd already heard of it, called, it's a British series from, I think the late 90s or maybe the 2000s, called The Royal Family, R-O-Y-A-L-E.

• 1:43:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Ooh.

• 1:43:57Karen Kilgariff?

  And it is a sitcom from England of just about this plain old family. I can't remember where they live. They don't really talk about it that much. But it's like a half hour play. And it is really basic and it's very quiet and it's very real. And it's like, it's a big old high backed couch and then the dad's chair pulled up real close to the TV. So the entire thing takes place while the family watches TV together. And it is so funny. And the reason I brought up the tea lunch thing is because the mom, whoever comes into the house, sits down on the couch and starts watching TV with them. And then she'll go, did you have your tea? And then they'll go. Yeah. And then she'll go, what'd you have? And then they'll describe what they had. So like,

• 1:44:42Karen Kilgariff?

  people are having like corned beef hash and all these things.

• 1:44:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Which you think it's lunch?

• 1:44:46Karen Kilgariff?

  What's fucking tea? It must be lunch.

• 1:44:48Georgia Hardstark?

  I think it's, okay, I think it's like the brunch. I think it's brunch, but between dinner, lunch and dinner.

• 1:44:53Karen Kilgariff?

  It's second lunch?

• 1:44:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 1:44:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Maybe.

• 1:44:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's find out.

• 1:44:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, but we will find out.

• 1:44:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, we will.

• 1:44:58Karen Kilgariff?

  But if you, here's why I love the show. As opposed to murder, we know we need to take a break sometimes. Also, sometimes-

• 1:45:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, wait, I'm wrong. I'm sorry. They have tea and then they go, what'd you have for pudding?

• 1:45:09Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. Pudding's dessert.

• 1:45:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 1:45:11Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 1:45:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:45:12Karen Kilgariff?

  They talk about that on here. Cause she said, who wants pudding one time? And then she served up, um, fruit cocktail. And I was like, what is happening? But anyway, if you want to relax, if you ca- if you're like a, uh, what do you call it? A Britophile?

• 1:45:27Georgia Hardstark?

  High strung. Oh, yeah.

• 1:45:29Karen Kilgariff?

  An Anglo, an Anglophile?

• 1:45:32Karen Kilgariff?

  It, it, it's like you went and sat in a living room with this family and they're hilarious and they're super mean. The youngest son, they keep making him get up and make tea. Or like, they're like, Anthony, go get the thing. And he's always mad. He's like a teenager. It's, it's just a very realistic family dynamic and it's very quiet. Everyone talks very quietly. So it's really relaxing. It's called The Royal Family. It's on Netflix.

• 1:45:55Georgia Hardstark?

  I love it. I'm gonna do the, I'm gonna do both those things.

• 1:45:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. Um, give it a try and then we'll meet back here and talk about it.

• 1:46:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's have, let's just change this podcast. So what'd you have for tea?

• 1:46:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Corned beef, every day.

• 1:46:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, just the way she asked the question, it's that great actress. You've seen this British actress in a million things. She's so fucking good in this part. But it is that thing where it's like, that's what my family's like. They just want to know.

• 1:46:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Know. I think that they always ask you what you had for tea.

• 1:46:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, they want to know. What, what, it's like saying, what have you been doing? But being real specific and then being like, oh, I had this. That pork chop sounds good. Like, it's so funny and real.

• 1:46:31Georgia Hardstark?

  I love it. Tell us what you had for tea, everyone.

• 1:46:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Tell us what you had for tea.

• 1:46:35Georgia Hardstark?

  When you find out what it is. My boring one, my ding dong one. You know, I fucking hate movies and I'm just like the biggest critic and I hate everything.

• 1:46:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:42Georgia Hardstark?

  I had found so much joy. Vince and I watched it together and he also doesn't, not as bad as me, but isn't a movie guy.

• 1:46:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 1:46:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Jumanji was so incredible. And you told, we talked about it. And so I was like, okay, I'll watch it. Fine. What a little joy of a movie.

• 1:46:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I laughed so hard I cried.

• 1:47:00Georgia Hardstark?

  It was so fun. The Rock is just an angel baby. Lovely girl in it. It was so, I want her fucking hair. She was such a badass.

• 1:47:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Karen, her name is Karen something, and she was a star on like one of the more recent Doctor Who series.

• 1:47:14Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 1:47:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Red hair Karen.

• 1:47:15Georgia Hardstark?

  All of them. Everyone was just the best. I loved it.

• 1:47:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Fucking Jack Black playing a teenage girl.

• 1:47:20Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. Oh, I think we, you mentioned it last episode.

• 1:47:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Did I?

• 1:47:24Georgia Hardstark?

  And I was like, did you text him and tell him how great he was? And you were like, no, we're not that kind of friend, he's a wife.

• 1:47:29Karen Kilgariff?

  But you agreed.

• 1:47:31Georgia Hardstark?

  He was great.

• 1:47:32Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so good.

• 1:47:33Georgia Hardstark?

  It's really enjoyable. As someone who hates everything, it made me really happy. It makes me like it more when I don't hate it. Cause I fucking hate everything. The Shape of Water? What are you talking about? That was the most atrocious, weird, fucking bestiality movie I've ever seen.

• 1:47:49Karen Kilgariff?

  My thing was, and my friend, the most hilarious comedian, Naomi Ekpergen, she goes, she goes, so she just falls in love with him automatically? What's the backstory? Is he from a river? Like she, she started, and she wasn't trying to be funny. She was so pissed off.

• 1:48:07Georgia Hardstark?

  He also like didn't hit on her. He like moved her, her, uh, tank top sleeve, which he doesn't understand what that is.

• 1:48:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:48:14Georgia Hardstark?

  And then she fucking takes advantage of him. I thought it was a little bit, I just was really upset.

• 1:48:18Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like so many rom coms where it's like, you don't know why they like each other. So why is this the great love of all time?

• 1:48:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Why do I care? Oh, I did like Lady Bird. Actually, I should go ahead and say that too. I thought that was a really, really good movie. All right.

• 1:48:31Karen Kilgariff?

  So good.

• 1:48:31Georgia Hardstark?

  The sweet thing, I'm gonna leave y'all on a sad, happy note. Okay, there's someone in the My Favorite Murder, uh, Facebook, which is now, you can now go to the, we have, we have a fan cult on myfavoritemurder.com. You can join our fan cult. There's forums and shit you can talk about, stuff. Um, her name's Amy. I don't think she wants me to say her last name, so I don't want to.

• 1:48:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:48:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Her name's Amy and she wrote this, uh, last week. I drive my daughter three and a half to four hours twice a week to speech therapy. Most of my commute is accompanied by Georgia and Karen.

• 1:49:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no.

• 1:49:06Georgia Hardstark?

  As the minisode ended today, my three-year-old yelled from the backseat, Elvis, I love him. He's my Elvis. Elvis.

• 1:49:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, good. Cause you were looking at me. Definitely a heartfelt moment. We thought talking might never come with her disorder, but even sweeter that she loves Elvis.

• 1:49:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my.

• 1:49:26Georgia Hardstark?

  So she doesn't speak and she yelled that.

• 1:49:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, sorry. I was confused because I, I pictured that, that the speech therapy child would be older. Like for some reason I cast her as a, as a, like a not 10-year-old.

• 1:49:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Nope.

• 1:49:42Karen Kilgariff?

  So when you said the three-year-old, then I was like, so it's an unspeakable-

• 1:49:46Georgia Hardstark?

  We thought talking might never come with her disorder, but even sweeter that she loves Elvis. And then the emoji cat with hearts in its eyes.

• 1:49:53Karen Kilgariff?

  And she yelled about it. Do it.

• 1:49:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Do you know how much I love this cat? Like-

• 1:50:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, I know actually exactly how much you love that cat.

• 1:50:03Georgia Hardstark?

  So knowing that means like so much, like that it's Elvis makes me so happy.

• 1:50:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, you, now you know there's a three-year-old that loves your cat as much as you do.

• 1:50:11Georgia Hardstark?

  He loves you too, sweetie.

• 1:50:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, he is a good boy.

• 1:50:15Georgia Hardstark?

  He's such a good boy. He knows it. Let's-

• 1:50:18Karen Kilgariff?

  He's like, I am, I'm having a certain feeling. I can tell something's about to happen.

• 1:50:23Georgia Hardstark?

  He fucking knows when we've blathered on too long.

• 1:50:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. He's like, we're now at the, uh, seven hour mark.

• 1:50:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Cut it ladies.

• 1:50:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, we're back.

• 1:50:34Karen Kilgariff?

  That's quite a set of hurrahs. Just all over the map.

• 1:50:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Did we drink that black coffee that day? I bet we did. I bet I had a little sip too.

• 1:50:42Karen Kilgariff?

  You had a little sip. You said-

• 1:50:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so this episode was originally entitled, Realities Canceled. If we were naming it today, maybe we would call it-

• 1:50:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Trick ankles.

• 1:50:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Still true. I can only wear flats.

• 1:50:56Georgia Hardstark?

  I love that.

• 1:50:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, Georgia did one of her classic puns. Instead of saying papier-mache, you said paper moth-shay because it was one of the threats.

• 1:51:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's see, the pun cult, of course.

• 1:51:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Also pass over egg mistakes. That's a good one. Well, I mean, what a great episode.

• 1:51:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:15Karen Kilgariff?

  This is, that's this week's episode of Rewind. It's that easy.

• 1:51:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Thanks for listening to this, the episode of the episode.

• 1:51:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:51:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Guys.

• 1:51:22Karen Kilgariff?

  And the commentary on the episode of the episode.

• 1:51:24Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. Well, say goodbye from 2018.

• 1:51:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, thanks you guys for listening this week.

• 1:51:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you for listening. Uh, if you, you listen, you guys are the best.

• 1:51:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Look.

• 1:51:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Look and listen. Thank you.

• 1:51:38Karen Kilgariff?

  We love you.

• 1:51:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 1:51:39Karen Kilgariff?

  So stay sexy.

• 1:51:40Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered. Bye.

• 1:51:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Elvis, you want a cookie? Calling all amateur detectives and podcast obsessives.

• 1:51:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Virgin Voyages' second True Crime Voyage sets sail March 20th, 2027 for a five-night escape to Grand Turk and the Beach Club at Bimini.

• 1:51:57Karen Kilgariff?

  As part of the On Air at Sea collection, this immersive sailing brings together fan favorite podcasts, including Disgrace Land, Buried Bones, and Wise Crack for live recordings, behind the scenes access, exclusive meet and greets, and crime-themed programming that you won't find anywhere else.

• 1:52:14Georgia Hardstark?

  All aboard our award-winning kid-free ships.

• 1:52:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to virginvoyages.com/truecrime to secure your spot. Goodbye.

• 1:52:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Hey guys, this is Gia Giudice from Casual Chaos. Your skin has moods. One day it's calm and the next it's breaking out. Whether you're dealing with pimples, clogged pores, or sensitive skin, Hero has your back. Meet your dream clean team. I've got combination skin, which means breakouts one week, dry patches the next. And Hero's new cleansers let me match my routine to how my skin feels. Mighty cleanser with salicylic acid for breakouts, pore cleanser for clogged pores, and gentle cleanser with seca and aloe for the sensitive days. Find the right cleanser for whatever mood your skin is in. Shop the full lineup at hero cosmetics.com. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast.

• 1:53:05Georgia Hardstark?

  The true crime comedy podcast, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on an amazing guest. Ooh, I scammed them. What? I could talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper, like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job.

• 1:53:19Speaker 04

  And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.