RIFC, the Impossible Deal and Life After Aspiration: Kawhi-Gate, Part XII

Just when you thought the Kawhi Leonard scandal was almost over, Pablo peels off another branch of the saga, with stacks of new documents and a group of reporters in tow. Amin Elhassan and David Samson reunite to trust the process of local journalism, meet another benevolent entrepreneur... and follow the public money, straight to the top — and back to The House That Ballmer Built. • Support The Kyra Fund https://fundraise.gbmresearch.org/campaign/812889/donate • Read much more about RIFC at WPRI https://www.wpri.com/?p=3105506 Previously on PTFO: • Part I: The Silent Superstar and the Rotten Apple Tree https://pod.link/1685093486/episode/NjhiN2IxMTNkNmUyY2RhYTI2MmQzNWI1 • Part II: An Argument with Mark Cuban https://pod.link/1685093486/episode/NjhiYTg1ZTkyZDkxM2JkMzMwODFhODBi • Part III: The Mystery Investor, the No-Show Payday and the "Smoking Gun" https://pod.link/1685093486/episode/NjhjMjVlMzJhY2EzNTIxYzc2MzhiZjNi • Part IV: Steve Ballmer, the Other Cuban and the $118 Million Infusion https://pod.link/1685093486/episode/NjhjYjcxNzVkYzYyZjBlMWQ2NjdjMzYy • Part V: Steve Ballmer's "Inconceivable" Donation, the $20 Million Guarantee and a Head on a Spike https://pod.link/1685093486/episode/NjhkOWU1ZmIyNTUyYjcyYzIwZWQ1NTQ1 • Part VI: An IRL Showdown with Mark Cuban https://pod.link/1685093486/episode/NjhlZDk2ODM4ODU1MjdhNDM2ZGJjNDU2 • Part VII: The Briefcase, Ballmer's Social Network and Aspiration's House of Cards https://pod.link/1685093486/episode/Njk2MDc1MzMxMTA3M2E2MWJkOTM5Yzg1 • Part VIII: Uncle Dennis, Ballmer's $50 Million Sprint and the Side Deal That Wouldn't Die https://pod.link/1685093486/episode/Njk4YjhmZjdiYTgwY2YxZWNiMTdmZTBl • Part IX: Ballmer's Tree Money, the Whistle-Blowers and the Document You've Been Waiting For https://pod.link/1685093486/episode/NjlhYjA0ODliNDllZWNjMGI3YjU1Mzhh • Part X: Steve Ballmer's Victim Impact, the Man Who Prosecuted Aspiration and the Abacus of Incarceration https://pod.link/1685093486/episode/NjlmOTFjOWY5YjE1MDdmYmRkZTAxZjc4 • Part XI: Ballmer's Secret I. O. U., Aspiration's "Web of Lies" and the Zenith of Fraud https://pod.link/1685093486/episode/NmEyMjI5NmFiMGYyOTYyYmU0ODEwOTAx (Pablo Torre Finds Out is independently produced by Meadowlark Media and distributed by The Athletic. The views, research and reporting expressed in this episode are solely those of Pablo Torre Finds Out and WPRI-TV and do not reflect the work or editorial input of The Athletic or its journalists.) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Pablo Torre?

  Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre, and today, we're gonna find out what this sound is.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  I've met with many of the investors, but Kawhi Leonard wasn't one of them, although he was on my fantasy basketball team this year.

• 0:16Pablo Torre?

  Right after this.

• 0:19Speaker 02

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• 0:43Speaker 03

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• 1:15Pablo Torre?

  Ready to upgrade your PC? The Dell Top Tech Event is here, and you can skip the research because independent tech experts already did it. Dell has laptops, desktops, and monitors that have been tested, reviewed, and named a winner by the publishers you trust. So instead of spending hours researching, you get a short list that's already proven. Take the Dell XPS 13 Laptop. Built for those who want better. Whether you're studying, working, or just getting things done, its thin and light design makes it easy to take anywhere. It has a touchscreen you'll love using, a battery built to last through your busiest days, and impressive performance powered by Intel Core processors. That's the thing about the Dell Top Tech Event. The experts already found the winners. All that's left is finding yours.

• 1:59Pablo Torre?

  While shopping, you'll also find great perks like Dell Rewards, fast free shipping, premium support, and financing with flexible payment options. Shop the winners now at dell.com/deals. That's dell.com/deals.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  A lot of pomp and circumstance today.

• 2:26Pablo Torre?

  I know. It's just really important that you guys not know what's going on in here until you get in here.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  Oh, like, as opposed to how we usually know everything, right?

• 2:35Pablo Torre?

  Can the camera see David over the stacks of paper? Very good.

• 2:40Speaker 04

  I'm trying to do the math equation on the top page.

• 2:41Pablo Torre?

  Of course you are. Stop looking at the papers. You have folders in front of you. There are stacks on the desk. The whole thing of why I needed you guys both here in studio with me, which we have not done together, by the way, for about five months.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  No, that's not true. We were at Sloan together.

• 2:57Pablo Torre?

  Well, five months ago!

• 2:59Speaker 04

  That was five months?

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Oh my god, Jesus.

• 3:01Pablo Torre?

  Welcome to July 2026, and me and Al Hassan, former member of the Suns' front office, and David Samson, former president of the Marlins, and builder of Marlins Park.

• 3:11Speaker 04

  Yes. I didn't actually hammer one nail. I did sign a girder, though.

• 3:18Pablo Torre?

  You autographed a beam.

• 3:21Speaker 04

  It's a roof beam.

• 3:23Pablo Torre?

  I just like that David autographed the thing that keeps the roof from caving in.

• 3:30Speaker 04

  One of the things.

• 3:32Pablo Torre?

  Among many things.

• 3:32Speaker 04

  There's a lot of girders, not just one.

• 3:35Pablo Torre?

  We should talk about some of those girders, perhaps, as we proceed here. But it has been almost a year since we dropped Part 1 of our investigation into Kawhi Leonard and Steve Ballmer and the Clippers and Aspiration. And we really need to start by acknowledging something that is more important than anything else. It is a good cause, Amin, that we are proudly supporting here today as we scrutinize any number of allegedly good causes because this cause is the Kyra Fund.

• 4:02Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 4:03Pablo Torre?

  David, you started this in your daughter's memory after she passed away in late June at age 28, and we genuinely need everybody to support the Kyra Fund's mission. There's gonna be a link in the show notes of this episode, and we're gonna find a cure for glioblastoma together.

• 4:19Speaker 04

  We're gonna try, that's for sure. It's been... Thank you, guys, I should say, to your whole staff. Metalark, Amin. I know you were there at the funeral. Thank you for that, obviously, and Pablo.

• 4:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think about our first show all the time because that was right before Kira got sick. It came out on September 3rd, and she got sick on the 12th. And that show was the last show I ever got to talk to her about. The show we won a Pulitzer for together was the last show of mine that I was in that Kira ever got to see.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:55Speaker 04

  Life is strange.

• 4:56Pablo Torre?

  It's surreal. As we attempt to manage, like, what the real world is and what this studio is and the ways that they touch each other and bleed into each other. And I also need to acknowledge, Amin Al Hassan, thank you for clearing your calendar and leaving NBA Summer League and your beloved lobby bar at the Wynn Las Vegas to join us here today.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Well, luckily, Summer League ended a day earlier, so I'm clear on that front. But yes, no, I wouldn't miss this for the win.

• 5:26Speaker 04

  How long were you in Vegas?

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Not that long. Long by regular people. Like, most people would go to Vegas.

• 5:32Speaker 04

  Three nights.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's a lot longer than that.

• 5:35Speaker 04

  Three nights. You go hard, one and three, and you have to rest two.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  Okay, so it's kind of like going to jail. You only do two days, right? The first day and the last day. It's the same thing for the Summer League. You just go, and then one day, you're like, "I'm leaving today."

• 5:47Pablo Torre?

  As we gather here today, we are still waiting for the results of the ongoing NBA investigation into Kawhi Leonard and the Clippers. This is the investigation that caused the Raptors, of course, to hit pause on their blockbuster trade for Kawhi on account of possible punishments being handed down by the commissioner, Adam Silver, who himself, just recently, says that he remains concerned.

• 6:10Speaker 05

  The last thing you want is to sort of wrap up an investigation and then have other information come out.

• 6:16Pablo Torre?

  Other information?

• 6:18Speaker 01

  That's us, guys.

• 6:19Speaker 04

  He really is.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  That's how... He's literally just talking about us.

• 6:22Pablo Torre?

  Other information coming out after his ruling drops, perhaps, in a studio like this one?

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 6:27Pablo Torre?

  It brings us to another update recently from our partners over at The Athletic. Amin?

• 6:32Speaker 01

  Ooh, I'll get to read Burley today.

• 6:34Pablo Torre?

  This headline reads...

• 6:37Speaker 01

  NBA Investigating Second Kawhi Leonard Sponsorship Deal As Part Of Aspiration Probe.

• 6:44Pablo Torre?

  Now, The Athletic, David, did not identify any further details about this alleged second sponsorship deal, but it did remind me, almost immediately, of another quote that we previously had reported months ago together. This was a quote from the Clippers' exasperated general manager at the time, Michael Winger, from inside the team building.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  Quote? How many [bleep] inside deals have we made with Kawhi?

• 7:10Pablo Torre?

  I felt that quote was important at the time, even more so now. And the thing that I need you guys to know about what I've been doing here is that since September 25th, 2025, in parallel to our Aspiration reporting, I have been trying to answer the question Michael Winger posed. And I've been trying to answer it by following a couple of clues. These are clues that have gone ignored, I would say, despite sitting out there in public for the last 11 months as we wait for anybody, anywhere, to produce an even remotely rational, non-salary cap-related reason why a company like Aspiration would ever bend over backwards to wildly overpay the least marketable superstar in the NBA

• 7:53Pablo Torre?

  to do nothing and keep all of that secret as well, never even announcing that deal at all?

• 8:00Pablo Torre?

  But, David, for legal reasons at the top here, I should also have you first read from the Clippers' latest statement, which got leaked to ESPN once the Kawhi trade to the Raptors got frozen. This about the NBA's investigation by its white shoe law firm of choice.

• 8:16Speaker 04

  At the heart of this investigation are Joe Sandberg and Aspiration. We did not funnel money to Kawhi Leonard through Aspiration. Like many sophisticated investors, financial institutions, and business partners, we were victims of a fraud initiated by Sandberg, who has been convicted and sentenced to 14 years in prison.

• 8:41Pablo Torre?

  And Joe Sandberg was, as he has since admitted in court, a fraud. In Part 1, everyone may now recall, we introduced Joe Sandberg the way he introduced himself, as a benevolent entrepreneur in Los Angeles who co-founded a benevolent-sounding company that was here to help the poor and, you know, save the world. And by doing what, Amin?

• 9:01Speaker 01

  By planting trees.

• 9:03Pablo Torre?

  And so there were press releases about Aspiration's early $50 million investment from Steve Ballmer. And Aspiration agreed to pay the Clippers $300 million over 23 years to be the team's jersey patch sponsor. But then, Aspiration collapses into bankruptcy and fraud, leaving a long trail of, frankly, struggling, everyday victims well beyond the richest donor in American sports. And while Team Ballmer's money helps Aspiration afford their overdue Kawhi payments, according to our reporting, nothing could keep Aspiration's roof from caving in as the very first statement, Amin, the Clippers ever gave us in this saga back in Part 1 indicated.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  The team ended its relationship with Aspiration years ago during the 2022-23 season, when Aspiration defaulted on its obligations.

• 9:58Pablo Torre?

  So let's take that timeline at face value for a second. Because what I need you guys to do now is imagine, if you will, that we're heading into the following NBA season, 2023-2024. And you guys now are Team Kawhi. It's Kawhi Leonard, it's Uncle Dennis, and Kawhi's actual licensed agent, Mitch Frankel. A truly enterprising trio, by the way, because when Kawhi was a free agent, let's just recall, The Athletic reported that Uncle Dennis had repeatedly asked Lakers owner, Genie Boss, for not only, quote, "a guaranteed amount of off-court endorsement money", but also, David?

• 10:36Speaker 04

  Part ownership of the team.

• 10:39Pablo Torre?

  Which, by rule, is...

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Verboten.

• 10:43Pablo Torre?

  Not cool.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  It's a no-go.

• 10:45Pablo Torre?

  That's a no-no. Bringing us to what the Toronto Star reported, wherein Uncle Dennis then proceeds to ask Raptors ownership for not only a guaranteed no-show endorsement deal, Amin, but also...

• 10:57Speaker 01

  An ownership stake in the Toronto Maple Leafs because that way, he wasn't asking for a piece of the Raptors.

• 11:03Pablo Torre?

  Uh huh.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  It was politely explained to him that both teams were owned by the same company and that the request was impossible.

• 11:11Pablo Torre?

  The Lakers and the Raptors both reportedly reported Team Kawhi to the NBA League office for this stuff that same summer. And the investigation by the NBA into that found no hard evidence of wrongdoing by Team Kawhi or Team Ballmer. And so now we are in, as we were saying, the 2023-24 season. The Clippers disastrous partnership with Aspiration is now over. This is now life after Aspiration. After those payments that Aspiration owed Kawhi had stopped. And so if you were Team Kawhi, Amin, what financial questions would you have for the NBA team that introduced you to Aspiration in the first place? What do you think Kawhi might be asking?

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Where's my money?

• 11:57Pablo Torre?

  So all of this brings us to a very crucial date in that 2023-24 season. Because, Amin, there was a shocking development amid the wreckage of Aspiration. Because now, David, it is January 10th, 2024. And what does this article from Forbes say?

• 12:21Speaker 04

  Clippers forging new path for NBA big threes with Kawhi Leonard extension. By signing Leonard to this extension, the Clippers might have just created the blueprint of how to build around big threes under the NBA's new collective bargaining agreement. Leonard was seemingly mindful of that when negotiating his new extension. Leonard took a projected $8.6 million less than his maximum salary, and it might wind up being even more than that.

• 12:56Pablo Torre?

  And all of this because of that order of operations in real life. It made me wonder what else was happening ahead of January 10th, 2024, along the trail of financial documents and limited liability companies left by Kawhi Leonard and Uncle Dennis and Mitch Frankel, the very same trail that started that original first episode almost a year ago, with the conspicuously named KL2 Aspire LLC registered to Kawhi Leonard, who wears the number 2 in the state of California. And so this is where normally I would have you guys dramatically read the names of the other LLCs Kawhi had founded in the month of January 2024. But some may recall that I actually had Amin do this

• 13:38Pablo Torre?

  earlier in the series in February of 2026, pointing this out for any white shoe law firm or journalist to investigate.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  KL2 RIFC LLC, January 2nd, 2024, and KL2 RIFC Real Estate, January 2nd, 2024.

• 13:59Pablo Torre?

  Shout out to past Amin, by the way. Very helpful introduction of today's episode.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  He's doing a lot of work. We should pay him.

• 14:08Pablo Torre?

  The week before Kawhi Leonard gave the Clippers that deeply atypical hometown discount while he was still owed seven figures from their former team sponsor, Aspiration. Team Kawhi has started two new LLCs, which are still active today. KL2 RIFC LLC and KL2 RIFC Real Estate LLC. This would be the clue and the question that threw me into this rabbit hole. And it's a rabbit hole that certain owners and politicians and alleged good guys tried insanely hard to keep both investigative journalists and struggling everyday Americans from ever discovering.

• 14:51Pablo Torre?

  Because the question is, what the [bleep] is going on with RIFC?

• 15:01Speaker 01

  You want to take a guess what that stands for?

• 15:05Speaker 04

  The first thing I thought of?

• 15:07Pablo Torre?

  You should reveal after the break.

• 15:09Speaker 04

  Oh!

• 15:27Pablo Torre?

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• 16:00Speaker 02

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• 16:23Speaker 03

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• 17:01Pablo Torre?

  So this is gonna be an episode in part about process.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  Trust it.

• 17:07Pablo Torre?

  What do you think RIFC stands for? Because as of September 2025, when I started reporting this, I had no idea myself.

• 17:15Speaker 04

  The only thing I can think of is having just finished watching the World Cup as a great distraction, by the way. FC is always football club.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  Yes, it is. That's not where my mind went.

• 17:25Pablo Torre?

  Where did your mind go?

• 17:26Speaker 01

  My, my mind went to, uh, the ROI, actually, which in my mind I said return on investment.

• 17:36Speaker 04

  ROI.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  Well, they, they dropped it.

• 17:39Speaker 04

  They dropped the O?

• 17:40Speaker 01

  It's a lot cleaner.

• 17:41Speaker 04

  Generally, you can't drop the O.

• 17:43Pablo Torre?

  Luckily.

• 17:43Speaker 04

  Could be.

• 17:45Pablo Torre?

  It does not take a Pulitzer Prize winning podcast or a prestigious white shoe law firm like Wachtel Lipton to Google this. And what you find is that when you Google RIFC, while Kawhi's been living and working, of course, in Southern California, the most popular search result for RIFC happens to exist on the complete opposite side of the country. Rhode Island.

• 18:10Speaker 06

  Anchored in community, and we are united by sport. A new home team. This time, a professional soccer league is building roots in Pawtucket. Rhode Island FC was revealed as the team's name this morning.

• 18:25Speaker 04

  Well, what league is that?

• 18:26Speaker 01

  Well done, David.

• 18:27Pablo Torre?

  I dare say you guys together both kinda nailed it.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  Not really.

• 18:33Pablo Torre?

  The Rhode Island Football Club, which, David, I also didn't know existed, was announced in late 2022 as a member of the United Soccer League, a second tier pro soccer league in the United States behind MLS. And why are you laughing?

• 18:51Speaker 04

  Because where my head is, we're sitting here together. And Rhode Island Football Club, which I'd never heard of, I, I'm asking myself, and I don't want to take a break, but I'd like to know who the owners are. I don't want to jump ahead, but like, who are the owners? All right, sorry.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Let him do the thing.

• 19:10Speaker 04

  Sorry. This is gonna be a thing, Pablo. We're gonna have to keep doing more of these.

• 19:15Pablo Torre?

  If you are now wondering, first of all, if there are any search results or examples of any kind where Rhode Island Football Club and Kawhi Leonard are mentioned together in any way of [bleep] and course not. Of course there aren't. It turns out Kawhi has never posted about RIFC or the state of Rhode Island in general on social media, nor has RIFC ever posted about Kawhi or included him in any promotional materials. There's no trace of him ever attending a game.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  Okay. Now, I'm David, and I want to get ahead of myself and ask, did Kawhi actually invest in RIFC? Or is this just a happy coincidence?

• 19:58Pablo Torre?

  Amin, what Aspiration reporting has taught me is that even if there's no public record of any financial relationship or promotional relationship of any kind in public, it is still worth logging on to my favorite social media slash dating app, LinkedIn, and getting to know people who used to work at a company that has zero public history with Kawhi Leonard whatsoever. And so I found someone, David, who actually did the job that you did for the Florida Marlins, but for RIFC, as we contemplate the question that Amin had just raised.

• 20:33Speaker 04

  Brett Louie, president, Rhode Island Football Club, November 2022 to May 2024.

• 20:41Pablo Torre?

  Brett Louie was the president of RIFC when Kawhi started both KL2 RIFC LLC and KL2 RIFC Real Estate LLC in January of 2024, the same month he signed that extension. And on September 25th, okay, this is what I was doing, weeks after he dropped part one. This is before I ever even mentioned, by the way, the words RIFC in public. I called up Brett Louie, and I introduced myself. And I asked him point blank if Kawhi Leonard had any financial relationship with the Rhode Island Football Club. The same question Amin asked. And the way I would describe his answer to my question would be, uh, stammer-y.

• 21:28Pablo Torre?

  And yet, in a fascinating way, also somehow not surprised by the fact that I was asking about this in the first place. I mean, according to a transcript of my notes from the call, RIFC's former team president, when asked, was Kawhi Leonard an investor? Did he have any financial relationship with RIFC? Said this, Amin.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Not sure. Uh, if he was one, I wasn't sure. I would generally have my involvement with my direct board members, uh, in and around that. So David, you were a team president of an organization of much larger magnitude than RIFC, no disrespect intended to the USL. I would imagine the president of a team would know every, you know, source of-

• 22:21Speaker 04

  There are layers, Amin. So if there's an entity that invests in your team, and the entity is called, Pablo Torre finds out.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:29Speaker 04

  And I would know about that as the team president. I would know the principles of PTFO.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:33Speaker 04

  Is it possible there could be an investor in PTFO?

• 22:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:36Speaker 04

  Three levels below, who I don't know, maybe.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 22:40Speaker 04

  But not likely.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  But I guess my thing would be, because I guess it would be, well, I didn't know. I just saw KL2 RIFC was the-

• 22:47Speaker 04

  No, you have to dig deeper. If you, if there's an LLC that's investing into your team at that level, you have to know who the principles are of that.

• 22:54Pablo Torre?

  It's funny that you guys are thinking that way. See, what my reaction was when I was told that on this phone call was, uh, that's not a no. I'm an investigative reporter looking for clarity, and he's not telling me no.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:13Pablo Torre?

  I'm like, okay, noted. But what Brett Louie offered to do on the phone was make a call to his former boss, the owner of RIFC himself.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  Well, there you have it.

• 23:24Pablo Torre?

  This is a man by the name of Brett Johnson. And Brett Johnson happened to be the first voice, actually, that we all heard in that newscast from Channel 12, the local CBS affiliate in Rhode Island, that we played for you earlier.

• 23:35Speaker 05

  Anchored in community, and we are united by sport.

• 23:39Pablo Torre?

  And just six minutes later, Amin, Brett Louie, the former president, called me back. And he relayed what he said RIFC wanted me to know, and again, to quote from my notes here.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  Quote, "The team is not willing to make any kind of comment on their investor stack." Unquote.

• 24:01Speaker 04

  Called you back to say that? He got in trouble from his former boss.

• 24:07Pablo Torre?

  Well, what struck me about this and this investor stack is that the degree of secrecy here about who owns this second-tier soccer club, that's fairly obscure, it struck me and several other American soccer executives that we spoke to at both the league and team levels as unusual.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Especially the smaller ones, like Kevin Durant's invested in an MLS team and a pickleball team, and they're like all these different, smaller leagues that want that shine, need that shine.

• 24:38Pablo Torre?

  I think celebrity minority ownership as like a well-worn concept in sports, yeah, that's a thing. And it's typically a very public thing, a very public marketing thing, for all of the reasons that, I mean-

• 24:50Speaker 04

  You remember the Dolphins, Pablo? Steve Ross did this when he brought in Marc Anthony and Venus and Serena Williams. They'd get to the game and they'd walk on a red carpet to the owner's suite. I would like to disclose to you the amount of cash that they actually invested in the team. It's roughly the same amount that Pablo likely has in his pocket right now. And it is very much a PR situation, but we're reading more and more about celebrities and athletes who are buying pieces, but it's not substantial pieces.

• 25:18Pablo Torre?

  Well, this is when I realized that I needed to make sure I was not missing anything, like, on the ground, along the red carpet of the Rhode Island Football Club. And my friend Sam Koppelman, publisher of Hunter Brook Media, very helpfully linked me with somebody who proved essential to what was now a group project.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  My name's Eli Sherman. I'm an investigative reporter with the CBS affiliate WPRI in Rhode Island. I cover both Rhode Island and southeastern Massachusetts, and typically cover things like public corruption, public money, business, anything government-related.

• 25:56Pablo Torre?

  But when I came to you and I said to you, hey, what about Kawhi Leonard? What was your initial knee-jerk reaction to that premise?

• 26:06Speaker 02

  I was like, he wants, what is this theory that he has? I never once had the name cross my mind in the context of Rhode Island in any way. You know, of course, watched him-

• 26:20Pablo Torre?

  When the Emmy and Murrah Award-winning, Eli Sherman, by the way, says he'd never even thought of Kawhi Leonard in the context of his home state, this actually means something. And it means something because if you're not familiar with Rhode Island, it happens to be the smallest state in the Union in terms of physical size, with a population of, I think, just over a million people.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  It is also described for media junkies as a reporter's playground. You know, everyone sort of knows everybody. You're always a one to two-degree separation from knowing somebody else in the state. So information and news and just talk and chatter swings around the state so quick.

• 27:03Pablo Torre?

  When I mention sports and Rhode Island to you guys, David and Amin, what comes to mind?

• 27:12Speaker 04

  Pawtucket, AAA team. We had players who enjoyed that stop. It's sneaky fun, actually.

• 27:20Pablo Torre?

  Did you ever go to see a Paw Sox game?

• 27:22Speaker 04

  No.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  No way.

• 27:24Speaker 04

  Are you crazy?

• 27:25Pablo Torre?

  Great place. Would never go there myself. But this, by the way, the longtime AAA minor-league team for the Red Sox, Jim Rice, Nomar Garcia Parra, Wade Boggs, they were all Paw Sox. They came up through that farm system. But what happened to the Paw Sox, David? Do you recall?

• 27:45Speaker 04

  No, I do not. Are they, did they relocate?

• 27:48Pablo Torre?

  They left.

• 27:49Speaker 04

  Oh, I love that. I love that.

• 27:52Pablo Torre?

  In 2021, the Paw Sox started playing games in Worcester, Massachusetts.

• 27:57Speaker 04

  Oh, yes, thank you.

• 27:59Pablo Torre?

  The Woo Sox.

• 28:00Speaker 04

  It's all coming back to me.

• 28:03Pablo Torre?

  Having tried and failed to, you guessed it, get taxpayer money to foot the bill for a new stadium. Because one more thing to know about the state of Rhode Island is that it is dealing with a lot of everyday, struggling Americans who have on their plate this massive statewide housing crisis, which Eli's colleagues at WPRI have also extensively investigated.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  Housing can be a complicated topic, involving everything from zoning rules to interest rates to construction costs. But the current crisis is also a simple story about supply and demand. Back in 2016, a report from Rhode Island Housing found the state needed to add at least 36,000 housing units over the next decade to meet the needs of the state's population. But so far, the state has built barely 18,000 units, only about half of what was recommended. And when supply doesn't keep up with demand, the result is what any economist would predict. Prices for the houses that are available have soared.

• 29:06Pablo Torre?

  The house builder told me the state of building new homes in Rhode Island is, quote, "a disaster." Is he wrong?

• 29:15Speaker 01

  No, he's right.

• 29:16Pablo Torre?

  And so, when the Paw Sox were demanding taxpayer money for this new stadium, Brett Johnson and the Rhode Island Football Club show up. And they come in with a noticeably different sales pitch. And what I need you guys to know now about Brett Johnson is that he is an entrepreneur in Los Angeles, and he also has two very interesting jobs that I need to bring your attention to, according to LinkedIn. First, Amin, he is-

• 29:46Speaker 01

  Founder and partner of Fortuitous Partners.

• 29:51Pablo Torre?

  Fortuitous Partners, being the LA-based entity in charge of RIFC's stadium build in Pawtucket. And then, David, Brett Johnson is additionally-

• 30:02Speaker 04

  The CEO of Benevolent Capital. That's really nice.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  How fortuitous.

• 30:10Pablo Torre?

  Fortuitous and benevolent, in other words, are these good guy investment firms at the intersection of sports ownership and real estate and community development.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  Sounds so familiar.

• 30:23Pablo Torre?

  And Brett Johnson believes that the Rhode Island Football Club and their new stadium in Pawtucket are an amazing deal for everyone. We should be building-

• 30:35Speaker 02

  A combination of affordable and market rate multifamily housing right off the highway. A hotel would fit in very well, some retail, et cetera. Now, we're completely cleaning up prime, prime real estate that's been lying fallow since literally the industrial revolution. We're creating an incredible amount of jobs. But that's where, when you take that whole project together, it becomes hundreds of million dollars, if not billions of dollars of investment creates an incredible.

• 31:01Speaker 04

  Page two of the I want public money playbook is to let the public know that this is actually in their best interest. And you are just a catalyst to getting them what they want, whether it's housing. The word affordable housing, that's a very great word that we like to use because it's neither affordable nor housing. But let's not mince words. Or you talk about hotels, convention centers, you talk about retail.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  Jobs.

• 31:27Speaker 04

  Jobs.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  Jobs is the big one. Oh, and so many jobs.

• 31:31Speaker 04

  I can't tell you how misleading it is to talk about job creation when it comes to stadium building and the surrounding development, because it is a go to number that we do. And if you would see how we would measure jobs.

• 31:42Pablo Torre?

  Well, you literally built Marlins Park in Miami. You navigated the political process of the state of Florida in all of these ways. And what you're saying is that when you would come up with the sales pitch for the public, it would be.

• 31:55Speaker 04

  It's to give cover to the commissioners or council members who you need a yes vote from. And so you speak to them and understand what they need in their districts. And then you hit that bid to enable them to get yes. It doesn't matter, the affordable housing, all the other bells and whistles are only the way to give cover to a politician to get to a yes vote.

• 32:16Pablo Torre?

  But there is a real affordability crisis, of course, in the state of Rhode Island and in America.

• 32:21Speaker 04

  Everywhere.

• 32:22Pablo Torre?

  And what this is promising is a way to address it. If you help me build my new house. And by the way, we will get back to the house that Steve Ballmer built in a second. A house that Brett Johnson, incidentally, in another interview, does seem to acknowledge is quite notable.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  Ballmer kind of changed their trajectory in things when he bought the Clippers. If anyone was looking at that time, people were talking about, look, maybe they'll go for $800 million. And Ballmer just threw $2 billion down on the table and said, I'm, it's done. And about a day later, after he closed it, everyone was like, you know what? I think he got that for a steal. Is this him admiring Steve Ballmer from afar?

• 33:04Speaker 04

  Strange reference point from Rhode Island to choose Steve Ballmer to me.

• 33:08Pablo Torre?

  Well, look, Ballmer set a record price to buy the Clippers, all that stuff he's saying. This is a great deal.

• 33:13Speaker 02

  And he built into it out of pocket. He did not use any.

• 33:16Speaker 04

  That's why we would never mention him. So I, I find it all very bizarre. We had a list of stadiums that were privately financed. And to our PR people, to any spokespeople, you may not mention those ballparks like Pac Bell in San Francisco.

• 33:31Pablo Torre?

  You're like, that guy makes us look bad, actually, because he's doing this out of pocket. And we're going to the public saying, hey, taxpayers, you can't afford some stuff. Help us, help you afford stuff by giving us your money.

• 33:44Speaker 04

  That's right. And it's the only way to do it.

• 33:46Pablo Torre?

  Well, it's worth remembering here. Joe Sandberg, another Los Angeles based entrepreneur, sold the Clippers on saving the planet, planting trees with aspiration. Brett Johnson, yes, is going to benevolently and fortuitously solve your housing crisis by building you a soccer stadium.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  What an aspiration.

• 34:04Pablo Torre?

  A stadium he proposed building, unlike those greedy paw socks, exclusively using private money. David, no public funds needed for this. In fact, according to Brett Johnson in 2019, the only public money Fortuitous Partners needed was for the construction of the hundreds of affordable housing units in the surrounding Tidewater Landing area.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  But that being said, it's not for the faint of heart in terms of how much you have to invest. And you have to find a great place to play for people to show up and you have to build a stadium. And we intend on building that privately. But as such, we're going to want to build a lot of additional assets. So we want office space. We want to build multifamily housing, retail, commercial, bars, restaurants. Really make it.

• 34:46Pablo Torre?

  So to be clear, private money for stadium, public money for housing. But speaking of P words, the thing that happens next is the pandemic. And inflation surges. And I mean, what do you think happened to the costs of Brett Johnson's new stadium?

• 35:08Speaker 02

  They skyrocketed.

• 35:09Pablo Torre?

  And so Brett Johnson goes back into the lab and he returns with a new pitch for the state of Rhode Island. Because you remember all the public taxpayer money that was going to help solve the housing crisis? Well, now they need that public taxpayer money to be diverted to the building of this increasingly skyrocketingly expensive stadium. After all, which Fortuitous Partners, contrary to its name, could not afford on their own. And imagine how you're the local officials in the state of Rhode Island and you're hearing this switcheroo.

• 35:50Pablo Torre?

  You may not be surprised to learn that it was way less popular this time. Kind of felt like the whole paw socks, public money problem all over again. As our guy in Rhode Island, Eli Sherman, explained.

• 36:04Speaker 02

  It was a bit of a bloodbath, you know, like housing, the housing crisis is a real thing here. It's talked about all the time. It's a huge priority of several state leaders. So this idea of, yeah, we're going to kick the can down the road on the housing side of this and use that public money to build an entertainment complex instead. It was not an easy decision to make.

• 36:28Pablo Torre?

  And so Brett Johnson's Tidewater Landing stadium deal gets tied up. It is now frozen. Rhode Island does not sign off. But in late 2022, a very important person does.

• 36:44Speaker 03

  Well, Mike, the heavily debated and increasingly expensive project is moving ahead now. Thanks to the state approving another $27 million in taxpayer money.

• 36:55Speaker 02

  Chair votes yes.

• 36:59Pablo Torre?

  Governor Dan McKee casting the tie breaking vote after the Rhode Island Commerce Board was divided on pitching in an extra $27 million to bail out the Tidewater Landing project. The governor of Rhode Island himself, Governor Dan McKee, steps in to approve the deal. And along with the state commerce board, the members of that council, they save Brett Johnson's new stadium.

• 37:25Speaker 02

  And actually, what happened is that Governor McKee also sits on this board and he stepped in to serve as the tie breaking vote on this board that was otherwise split on this decision. So he really put his name on that decision to make the stadium work.

• 37:45Pablo Torre?

  And so now here we are finally in the spring of 2023. And while aspiration is collapsing in LA, tanking the Jersey Patch sponsorship and spiraling into bankruptcy with a federal investigation underway and a presumably dissatisfied Kawhi Leonard looking for the millions he is still owed. This ongoing mystery reminded me of what I had learned back in September of 25, when I called R I F C's former president to ask whether Kawhi Leonard, the proprietor of K L two R I F C LLC and K L two R I F C Real Estate LLC had any financial relationship with this soccer team.

• 38:24Speaker 02

  The team is not willing to make any kind of comment on their investor stack.

• 38:31Pablo Torre?

  Thankfully, however, somewhere inside this new stack of documents, there was another state in our union whose public records were worth examining. And we've been talking about this state in this episode. David, you know it well. It's the same state where both Uncle Dennis Robertson and Agent Mitch Frankel have listed addresses in the original K L two aspiration contract.

• 39:01Speaker 04

  Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. God, do I love Palm Beach Gardens. Section 4.1A, legal notices, care of Dennis Robertson, Palm Beach Gardens, Florida.

• 39:16Pablo Torre?

  And this legal notices section of the contract for K L two Aspire LLC continues on the next page.

• 39:23Speaker 04

  With a mandatory copy to Mitchell Franco, Boca Raton, Florida.

• 39:29Pablo Torre?

  And hiding in the state of Florida, I mean, very quietly, was not another K L two R I F C LLC.

• 39:38Pablo Torre?

  But this.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  Filed August 21st, 2025. The name of the limited liability company is? D R R R I F C Real Estate.

• 39:56Pablo Torre?

  If you're wondering what D R R stands for.

• 40:00Speaker 01

  The name of the registered agent is Dennis Robertson.

• 40:06Pablo Torre?

  Or, as his LinkedIn page clarifies, Dennis R. Robertson. Which felt like, you know, it felt like something. Uncle Dennis is back. Uncle Dennis is in this deal.

• 40:21Pablo Torre?

  Somehow. But at this point. Admittedly, all we really had after months of Stonewall Records and requests and phone calls about Kawhi.

• 40:33Pablo Torre?

  Were three LLCs now with R I F C in the name, all of which remain active to this day. Kawhi's two LLCs and now his uncle's one. And when our collaborators at Hundredbrook Media entered those LLCs, R I F C and R I F C Real Estate, into a giant nationwide property database. They got exactly zero hits back. Indicating that Kawhi and his uncle and his agent. Don't own any actual real estate through those entities at all. Leaving our group project, despite all this paper, in a bit of a bind.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  We wanted to be sure that Kawhi Leonard's involvement with the Rhode Island FC was beyond sort of this mysterious LLC that just happened to have um R I F C in it in a very similar way that it did with the aspiration deal. And so.

• 41:33Pablo Torre?

  And so now, um, I'm gonna tell you guys why I love local news. Because that is also what this episode is implicitly about, if you can't tell. Earlier this year, Eli Sherman of W P R I, here is that Rhode Island football club owner Brett Johnson. Will be traveling from his home in Los Angeles to the great state of Rhode Island in March to speak on some panel. And when Eli reaches out to Brett Johnson's reps, they basically just blow Eli off. They say that Brett would not be available to talk about the business and finances of his franchise. Which, again, we have been investigating now for many, many months, ever since I got blown off in September of 25. But what Eli does is what all great reporters do.

• 42:19Pablo Torre?

  He shows up.

• 42:21Speaker 02

  Hey Brett.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  Hey.

• 42:22Speaker 02

  Eli Sherman.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  Hey.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  From W P R I.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  How's it going?

• 42:25Speaker 01

  Good, good. Thank you.

• 42:26Speaker 02

  Um, I just, at some point, I would like to have a broader conversation with you, but I have some margin orders that I need to ask. And the first is about your investor stack.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:37Speaker 02

  Um, is Kawhi Leonard in any way affiliated with the team?

• 42:43Speaker 01

  Uh, Kawhi Leonard is a um friend and his uncle and his agent, uh, the three of them are invested in small investors.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  That's Dennis Robertson and Kawhi.

• 42:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  And their agent.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:57Pablo Torre?

  So there are immediately a couple of fun things there that I wanna, I wanna point out.

• 43:01Speaker 01

  But hold on, man. Why the hell we get all this runaround if he's just gonna answer the question straight up?

• 43:06Pablo Torre?

  Well. I think it's very funny that Kawhi Leonard, in fact, is an unannounced, never-before-disclosed co-owner of this random-ass pro soccer club in Rhode Island. And that also, according to team owner Brett Johnson, he's a friend.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  A dear friend. A dear friend.

• 43:27Pablo Torre?

  But I think just as interesting is the additional fact that it's not just Kawhi. Who's an investor.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  Money-making Mitch is in the soup.

• 43:39Pablo Torre?

  Brett Johnson says that his investment also includes, yes, Uncle Dennis, who would start D R R, R I F C Real Estate LLC in August of 2025. Years after he'd reportedly asked NBA owners in 2019 free agency to give Kawhi Leonard ownership stakes in pro sports teams. Um. So too, owning a stake in a pro sports team is [BLEEP] Mitch Frankel.

• 44:03Speaker 04

  The question is, what's the consideration that was given in order to get the shares of stock they got? What, at what level did they invest? What percentage? Do they have a board seat? Do they have any say at all? Were they brought in not for their names, because their names aren't being used? So what is the purpose of it?

• 44:21Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 44:21Speaker 04

  That'd be my first question.

• 44:22Pablo Torre?

  Yes, and as we examine why it is that all three members of Team Kawhi had business relationships with both aspiration, which owes Kawhi these millions of dollars in cap sur convention payments, according to our reporting. And now, R I F C. We need to say for the record, we do not have the precise data on what Team Kawhi's ownership stakes are worth. We continue to investigate it, but nobody involved will tell us what they cost to acquire, if anything, or their estimated present-day value. What we know is that R I F C Stadium alone is worth $140 million, I mean.

• 45:00Pablo Torre?

  And that Brett Johnson, his sales pitch, which we all heard before, is that any such stake is going to get so much bigger.

• 45:09Speaker 05

  When you take that whole project together, it becomes hundreds of million dollars, if not billions of dollars of investment, creates an incredible amount of jobs. And it's very rare that I see a market that doesn't have a need for more housing, and Rhode Island's certainly in that camp. So it's great to be able to start to solve a problem that they have on that side as well.

• 45:30Speaker 04

  It's a tear in my eye.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  The other thing we have, though, it's not a small thing, guys. We have, from the principal owner, confirmation that these three individuals are investors. Yes, we don't know to what degree, what level, what, what form it does, but we now know that that is confirmation. They are involved in this. We're not just, we're not just connecting dots on our own.

• 45:59Pablo Torre?

  This has now been confirmed by the owner and by multiple sources.

• 46:04Speaker 04

  When was that?

• 46:05Pablo Torre?

  March of 26, which is months after my first call to former team president Guy in September of 25. And I should say that we reached out, of course, with detailed questions about all of this, about the business and the finances and the apparent friendship. We asked representatives for Kawhi Leonard. We asked Dennis Robertson and Mitch Frankel directly. And they

• 46:29Pablo Torre?

  did not respond.

• 46:30Speaker 04

  It's an interesting situation where he had asked for ownership of a team. And you can't have Maple Leafs and Raptors, you can't have Lakers, now you can't have Lakers Dodgers. But when you talk about Clippers and R I F C. The connective tissue is not as obvious.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 46:48Speaker 04

  Unless Pablo tells us it is, but on the surface, it's not as obvious.

• 46:53Pablo Torre?

  What we're telling the story of is, in the timeline, once aspiration effectively vaporizes, what happens as Kawhi is taking his hometown discount in the background?

• 47:05Speaker 01

  What's filling the space, right? Like in basketball, when you, you run a pick and roll and the guy in the corner goes, someone else comes back and fills because.

• 47:15Speaker 04

  In soccer too.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 47:16Speaker 04

  With the triangles.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:18Speaker 04

  Fill the space.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  Fill the space.

• 47:19Pablo Torre?

  But speaking of triangles, speaking of big threes, something else Brett Johnson wanted to stress to Eli during their in-person interview, which continues, is that Brett's dealings with Team Kawhi, that big three, are not simply financial. He says that Team Kawhi, like him, they care about the larger housing crisis in Rhode Island.

• 47:43Speaker 05

  They uh, they're particularly interested in real estate, finding ways to invest in housing, particularly low-income areas.

• 47:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz I saw they had some LLCs that they set up that were like KL2, uh, Rhode Island FC. And I was like, this must be something here. So they're interested, not just with the team, but also with the real estate.

• 48:03Speaker 05

  Yeah, but in general, and again, I don't like to make a habit of talking about any of our investors, but I know it's out in the public domain, so.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 48:10Speaker 05

  But again, their, their interest, Kawhi is uh, very interested in using his capital to make a change in communities. And the housing is what's very important to him.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 48:21Speaker 04

  It's Kawhi's number one investment goal when he sits with his advisors. I want to help the housing situation in Rhode Island.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  And plant trees.

• 48:30Pablo Torre?

  He's very benevolent.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  And fortuitous.

• 48:33Pablo Torre?

  But to date, as with aspiration, we of course have found zero proof or indication of anything that Kawhi may have ever done in terms of the massive and very real problem of affordable, low-income housing in the state of Rhode Island. And again, as with aspiration, Eli and I, we've been wondering for months why R I F C has never announced that Kawhi is connected to them in any way, or vice versa. And so, he asked Brett Johnson about that too.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  And I just wonder, because, you know, I, I see with some other USL teams, they have a big name, like. Can't you sell some merch off of Kawhi?

• 49:15Speaker 05

  I don't think so. It's not, I mean, again, uh, these athletes, uh, I have the utmost respect in terms of their privacy and, you know, they wanna make a difference with their investment the other day. Like this, this, they wanna see their investment.

• 49:28Pablo Torre?

  Get a return, but they also want to see a create job. They want to see housing, everything that we're doing resonated with, you know, someone like you. Okay. And with his own, you know, they're, they're, and by extension, they're managing, so. Got it. But when it comes to these athletes and their privacy around their investments, it does seem worth mentioning, I mean, that Kawhi Leonard has announced other investments before, actually. For instance, this is from Front Office Sports in 2020.

• 49:56Speaker 01

  Los Angeles Clippers star Kawhi Leonard is joining natural performance supplement company X2 Performance as an investor and member of its board of directors. Quote, "He will be the face of the brand," X2's CEO told CNBC. Leonard will also be directly involved with, quote, "product innovation and marketing support."

• 50:22Speaker 04

  That's like when they come up with their own perfumes. We're very involved in the ingredients to make the perfume.

• 50:29Pablo Torre?

  Now, the question is like, so what does this all smell like? Because the fact is Kawhi has participated in press releases for other stuff. It's what makes the aspiration deal in the first place so insane that it was top secret as well. And now here we have another one in the world of the United Soccer League, in which, by the way, some very notable athletes who are otherwise considered pretty private are actually very public as investors. For instance, David, this is from days ago this month. This is a pretty interesting headline from Yahoo.

• 51:01Speaker 04

  Russell Westbrook explains how he helped design OKC United's soccer logo. The OKC United will be part of the USL Championship in 2028. Westbrook is one of the more notable investors. Another is Jalen Williams.

• 51:20Pablo Torre?

  Which makes sense, they're Thunder players or were. And I mean, in 2021, there was this from ESPN.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Former NFL star Marshawn Lynch joins ownership group for USL's Oakland Roots. Quote, "Growing up in the town, I knew the minute I heard about the opportunity to join Oakland Roots, it wasn't just something I wanted to do, it was something I had to do," end quote Lynch said in a statement.

• 51:51Pablo Torre?

  When we asked another majority owner in the United Soccer League if a superstar investor from another sport would ever stay anonymous, the owner said, quote, "They could help us sell merch." And when our partners on this story at WPRI asked the mayor of Pawtucket about Kawhi Leonard and his involvement specifically, which he had no idea about, he said, quote, "If I were them, I'd be shouting it because of the positivity it brings to the organization," end quote.

• 52:21Speaker 04

  Takes one visit, Pablo. When you are a celebrity investor, if you make an appearance, if you own a clothing company, a little piece, and then you wear that piece of clothing, Ryan Reynolds is very famous for doing this. He'll take positions and then he will promote and then it will increase his worth because he gets equity. Equity is how you actually make real money, salary is not. And so Kawhi Leonard taking positions in different assets, that is not shocking to me in any way.

• 52:52Pablo Torre?

  No.

• 52:52Speaker 04

  But what he should be doing is trying to increase the value of the asset, which is what you do by going to Pawtucket.

• 53:00Pablo Torre?

  By doing literally anything.

• 53:01Speaker 04

  Anything would be helpful.

• 53:03Speaker 01

  Wearing an RIFC hat.

• 53:05Pablo Torre?

  But in fairness, um, in fairness, right? Maybe Brett Johnson and the Rhode Island Football Club are not like these other teams, right? Maybe they just have a stringent policy around not disclosing their investor stack across the board, as their ex-president had relayed by phone last September to me. In fact, when we asked RIFC for official comment for this episode, a team spokesperson told us, quote, "Rhode Island FC's policy is to maintain the confidentiality of individual investor holdings. Accordingly, Rhode Island FC does not comment on specific investor stakes, valuations, or shareholdings beyond information that has already been made public," end quote.

• 53:46Pablo Torre?

  But speaking of what has already been made public, very late in the game, while digging through the true dregs of RIFC's online history, David, we discovered a post from March 2023 that not many people saw. And this tweet was sent by at Rhode Island FC itself.

• 54:11Speaker 04

  Squad keeps getting stronger and taller. We are thrilled to welcome at DTHIS10 to the RIFC Ownership Group.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  Let me see that.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  It's Daniel Theis? Wow, this is former Boston Celtic, German big man, world champion, I believe, with Germany, Daniel Theis.

• 54:37Speaker 04

  Celtics, though.

• 54:38Speaker 01

  He was a Celtic.

• 54:39Speaker 04

  He's close to Rhode Island.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:40Speaker 04

  May have gone to Rhode Island.

• 54:42Pablo Torre?

  I guess the question here immediately is, why would you tweet out NBA journeyman, Daniel Theis, who is still in the league at this point? Why would you tweet out that he's joining your ownership group, but not the NBA superstar in your investor stack?

• 54:57Speaker 01

  It's funny because when David started to read it, I was like, oh, maybe they did announce that Kawhi was part of this. And then I had to do the math in my head and I'm like, let me see that paper.

• 55:07Pablo Torre?

  A rep for Daniel Theis, after initially showing interest in scheduling an interview with Theis and WPRI, ghosted our local news friends. Didn't respond to Eli's questions about his involvement with the team. And I should say that I'm gonna cast aside, as I mean, I think it looks at basketballreference.com.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  I'm about to, it's exactly what I'm about to do.

• 55:30Pablo Torre?

  I'm gonna cast aside the pretty interesting coincidence that Daniel Theis happened to sign with what team, I mean, during the 23-24 season?

• 55:39Speaker 01

  I was gonna look it up because I was like, was he a Clipper for a little bit of time?

• 55:43Pablo Torre?

  Of course he was.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 55:45Pablo Torre?

  But we're gonna cast that aside because maybe that's a coincidence.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  Jesus.

• 55:48Pablo Torre?

  There are only so many teams in the NBA. I just keep looking for rational explanations as to why multiple insanely secretive companies along the timeline of Kawhi's team-friendly Clippers extensions wind up never announcing they're in relationships with them. Seems counterproductive financially, if nothing else.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Played one season with the Clippers and it just happened to be the same season that we're talking about here.

• 56:12Pablo Torre?

  Hey, hey, hey, settle down.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 56:14Pablo Torre?

  This is where I need to disclose, I mean, that we did reach out to Team Ballmer and the Clippers, and we asked them if the NBA's law firm walked out Lipton had inquired about RIFC in terms of Kawhi and their 11-month investigation, maybe making this story the unnamed second sponsorship that The Athletic recently mentioned. Or maybe it's just something new entirely with new information that might worry the commissioner, Adam Silver, given that the RIFC deal apparently wasn't a sponsorship at all, but this investment? We also asked the Clippers if anyone in the organization was aware that Kawhi and/or Dennis Robertson and/or Mitch Frankel

• 56:54Pablo Torre?

  had acquired ownership stakes finally in a pro sports team, the Rhode Island Football Club? Or if the team was aware that in January of 2024, Kawhi had even registered KL2 RIFC LLC and KL2 RIFC Real Estate LLC. The week before, he gave the Clippers that $8.6 million discount on his extension, which was after the Clippers and Team Ballmer had finally cut aspiration loose as corporate partner and jersey patch sponsor. And the Clippers did not respond. But once again, while we await clarity, I will simply quote the Clippers' former GM, Michael Winger.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Quote, "How many [bleep] side deals have we made with Kawhi?"

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• 1:00:33Pablo Torre?

  And so we are left with a frozen trade, an Adam Silver's unknown calendar of investigation, and still more questions, obviously, including about how coincidental it is, David, that ESPN reported this just a few weeks ago in July.

• 1:00:50Speaker 04

  Sources: Kawhi Leonard hires new agent to oversee next Raptors deal. Leonard has hired Harrison Gaines of Slash Sports as his new agent to oversee negotiations, sources told ESPN. The change is a major shift for Leonard, who previously had Mitch Frankel and his uncle and business advisor Dennis Robertson handle all of his affairs. Frankel represented Leonard on his negotiations with the L.A. Clippers, including a three-year extension signed in 2024.

• 1:01:26Pablo Torre?

  The point is, for the first time, they switch representation. And Kawhi's new agent, for the record, did not respond to a request for comment. And so we are also left with the thing that was just mentioned there, Kawhi's 2024 extension, and about how purely coincidental it is that Brett Johnson and Rhode Island Governor Dan McKee combined to save the Rhode Island Football Club more than 2,500 miles away from the Intuit Dome, just in time for Team Kawhi to get some of that sweet sports ownership equity they had previously demanded. Which now takes us to May 3, 2025. This weekend in Pawtucket, going to be big for sports fans, especially soccer fans, with the first game ever at Centerville Bank Stadium for Rhode Island FC. Skydrone 12.

• 1:02:09Pablo Torre?

  Because at long last, we get to opening day in Pawtucket, where Brett Johnson is finally opening Centerville Bank Stadium. And here it is.

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  Lovely.

• 1:02:21Pablo Torre?

  There's a sellout crowd of some 10,500 fans in attendance. That's capacity. People gazing up at the brand-new Daktronics Jumbotron. Ooh, seen here. Manufactured by the same company that made the Intuit Domes, enormous Halo board. Although, according to Bloomberg, I mean, there was a little fine print on what RIFC's stadium ultimately cost the public.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  Rhode Island City Draws Eye-Popping Yield on Municipal Debt for New Soccer Arena. Taxpayers are paying dearly to bring a pro sports team back to the faded industrial city of Pawtucket, Rhode Island. A few short years after losing the Paw Sox, the minor-league affiliate of the Boston Red Sox, to Massachusetts, Pawtucket is betting it will be able to draw fans to a more than 10,000-seat stadium to see an untested U.S. pro soccer team playing in the sports second tier. A redevelopment agency in the New England City sold $54 million in tax-exempt bonds

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  to build the minor-league soccer arena at a yield of 8.24%, equivalent to almost 14% on taxable securities.

• 1:03:35Pablo Torre?

  How does that deal sound?

• 1:03:38Speaker 04

  I'm in.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  Right? I was like, oh, okay.

• 1:03:41Speaker 04

  I mean, I don't, I have to look to see who's backing. If the state of Rhode Island is backing these bonds, then I'm in. I'd have to really look at the.

• 1:03:50Pablo Torre?

  But I guess what I'm saying is, from the perspective of the state of Rhode Island, from the city of Pawtucket.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:03:58Speaker 04

  Oh, these are high-yield.

• 1:03:59Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, that's what I was really, I love that David was like, look, as a.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  It's like money.

• 1:04:04Speaker 04

  As an investor, in.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  This is great.

• 1:04:06Speaker 04

  As a taxpayer, out.

• 1:04:08Pablo Torre?

  You could not even fathom the through line I've meticulously crafting this whole episode of what would it be like to be the everyday American who is contemplating this deal?

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm paying for this.

• 1:04:20Pablo Torre?

  Sold! Can we, can we, do you take Venmo? Can we? It's so perfect. 14% on taxable securities. The point being, several months later, on the back of that, quote, "eye-popping commitment of public money for some wicked good soccer."

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:36Pablo Torre?

  As the team motto goes.

• 1:04:38Speaker 01

  You gotta say it like them, though.

• 1:04:39Pablo Torre?

  Wicked good soccer?

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Soccer.

• 1:04:41Pablo Torre?

  Swaka.

• 1:04:41Speaker 01

  Wicked good soccer.

• 1:04:43Pablo Torre?

  My father-in-law's horrified. We, we were frustrated in the studio. I mean, look, Kawhi has still never said a recorded word about the team, though he did start following the official team account on Instagram.

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:04:58Pablo Torre?

  At some point.

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  That's big.

• 1:05:00Pablo Torre?

  After we made many, many calls and filed many, many public records requests, asking about him, of all the people you've now met in this story, which is something.

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  That's way more than he did for aspiration.

• 1:05:10Pablo Torre?

  Absolutely. Shout out to doing literally anything.

• 1:05:15Pablo Torre?

  But then we realized something. Among these towers of documents stacked before you guys, these thousands and thousands of new pages that we amassed in the hopes of pulling a needle out of these stacks, as it were, there was one particularly curious piece of paper. A piece of paper that is technically a public record, but it required a kind of decoding of its own. And this document, David, is the final document in your folder. So what does it say across the top?

• 1:05:48Speaker 04

  Schedule: Gov Calendar.

• 1:05:52Pablo Torre?

  This is the calendar for Rhode Island Governor Dan McKee, the most important public servant in this story. And this calendar, recorded by the governor's office, is from just a few months after the opening of that wicked, good, new soccer stadium.

• 1:06:07Speaker 01

  Swaka.

• 1:06:07Pablo Torre?

  Swaka Stadium in Pawtucket. And the document continues.

• 1:06:12Speaker 04

  On Friday, October 24, 2025. Time zone: Eastern Time. L.A. trip.

• 1:06:23Pablo Torre?

  I mean, you may now be wondering, what in the [bleep] was the governor of Rhode Island doing 2,500 miles away from his home state in L.A. at all?

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  Maybe it's one of those conventions, the governor conventions they do sometimes?

• 1:06:35Pablo Torre?

  Well, good question, good guess, but according to his office, Governor McKee was there on government business to do this.

• 1:06:43Speaker 01

  Visit the headquarters of businesses with important Rhode Island operations and conduct outreach to other organizations.

• 1:06:54Pablo Torre?

  And at the end of such a long day of important visits, the governor of Rhode Island's calendar lists what, David?

• 1:07:03Speaker 04

  Private, open parentheses, tentative, close parentheses, 9:45 PM to 11:45 PM.

• 1:07:14Pablo Torre?

  It is also notable that many of the entries on this calendar are quite detailed and quite specific, whereas this one is not.

• 1:07:24Speaker 04

  Because when you're dealing with the public, the county, city, state, public records requests, in order to hide yourself, so let me answer it in another interesting, funny way. When we gave our team financials to the county, which we did with the Marlins deal, we never gave it to the public officials, because then it would be subject to journalists like you seeing it. We would give it to a private banker who was hired by the county.

• 1:07:53Pablo Torre?

  Mmm.

• 1:07:54Speaker 04

  To look at the financials, and then the private consultant would say to the public officials, "I've seen the financials, they're telling the truth," or "they can't afford more," et cetera. But we would never hand over a document to the public negotiators, because then it could be found by Pablo.

• 1:08:13Pablo Torre?

  And so what I'm gathering here, David, is that you guys at the Marlins worked with public officials, often, to ensure secrecy, including on stuff like calendars.

• 1:08:24Speaker 04

  We were super careful to make it so no one would be able to find anything.

• 1:08:28Pablo Torre?

  Private, parentheses, tentative. Yet another redacted stone wall in front of our investigation. But, I mean, October 24, 2025. What, what do you think may have been happening in Los Angeles?

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  Can I hazard a guess?

• 1:08:50Pablo Torre?

  I would love nothing more.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  Is it a Clipper game?

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  Good God almighty.

• 1:08:57Pablo Torre?

  On October 24, 2025, the Los Angeles Clippers just happened to be hosting the Phoenix Suns for the Intuit Dome's season home opener that season. And when was tip-off time, by the way? I mean, they're on the box score in front of you.

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  10:30 PM Eastern Time. The local would be 7:30 PM.

• 1:09:16Pablo Torre?

  But yeah, but Eastern Time on the calendar, so right there.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  So yeah, 9:45 on your calendar is because he wants to get there early enough to high-five the guys coming out of the tunnel? I don't know.

• 1:09:25Pablo Torre?

  To make important connections.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:28Pablo Torre?

  To advance the business of Rhode Island. By the way, how did Kawhi do in that game?

• 1:09:33Speaker 01

  He had a great game. 27 points on 11 of 21 shooting.

• 1:09:37Pablo Torre?

  And so, after making even more calls about this private trip, what our group project decided to do was dispatch Eli's colleague from WPRI's Target 12 investigative unit, managing editor Tim White, to ask a few questions as part of an on-camera interview with the sitting governor of Rhode Island, Dan McKee, who happens to be seeking reelection in November. So, Governor, I want to talk about the Clippers game. How did that come about? Who invited you?

• 1:10:08Speaker 07

  I invited myself. I was, I wanted to go to the games, and I did. I paid for the ticket. You know, I paid for the, reimbursed the people for the ticket and the expense and had a good time.

• 1:10:19Pablo Torre?

  He just loves the Clippers.

• 1:10:20Speaker 01

  He's a big basketball fan.

• 1:10:21Pablo Torre?

  He's a big basketball fan.

• 1:10:22Speaker 01

  You look up on the calendar, who's playing tonight? Oh, Ossie Gudaro's starting for the Suns.

• 1:10:28Pablo Torre?

  But, but that's not all, because as we now know, you're always one or two degrees of separation from somebody else in this story. And what the governor's office finally had admittedly, quite exasperatedly conceded to Eli, is that Governor McKee was sitting at the Clippers' home opener, where he had, quote, "invited myself with none other than Brett Johnson," the owner of a second-tier soccer team that was secretly co-owned by Kawhi Leonard and the two men who have since stopped representing him in contract negotiations, his uncle Dennis Robertson and his agent Mitch Frankel. And at this point, uh, things with the governor got a little awkward. And you joined Brett Johnson right?

• 1:11:13Speaker 02

  In a booth, he was with you as well?

• 1:11:15Speaker 07

  Brett was there. Yeah, I like Brett.

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  Did you meet anyone else at the game? From the Clippers?

• 1:11:21Speaker 07

  Like players?

• 1:11:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:23Speaker 07

  I got into a room where they walked by, or they didn't get any introductions.

• 1:11:26Speaker 02

  So you didn't get to talk to Kawhi Leonard?

• 1:11:29Speaker 07

  No.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  Okay. I'm asking because Kawhi Leonard is an investor in Rhode Island Football Club. Were you aware of that?

• 1:11:37Speaker 07

  Not really, but I know that there were some players that were, you know, involved in it. But again, I went to a game, I paid for the ticket. I did it after business that we did in a really good business for the people in the state of Rhode Island, and I enjoyed the game.

• 1:11:52Pablo Torre?

  Not really.

• 1:11:54Pablo Torre?

  Is just, I gotta keep pointing this out, is not no? Which is the thing that also was quite noticeable when I first called the former president of RIFC in September of 2025. Why can no one just say no on the question of Kawhi Leonard?

• 1:12:15Speaker 02

  So just, I want to be clear, you say not really when I asked you about Kawhi Leonard. Were you aware that he was an investor in RIFC or not?

• 1:12:24Speaker 07

  Well, I would have to go back and look at that. But the most important thing here is that I went to the game, I paid for the ticket, I reimbursed it just like anybody else would, and I enjoyed the game.

• 1:12:35Speaker 02

  You know, we just find it interesting that Kawhi Leonard is an investor in a, you know, minor league soccer team here in Rhode Island. Do you have any idea how that came about and why it hasn't been shouted from the rooftops? I mean, that's kind of a big deal. He's probably one of the best players in the NBA, and he's interested in Rhode Island.

• 1:12:52Speaker 07

  Well, I'm happy that the soccer program is going well and Brett's recruiting. I've met with many of the investors, but Kawhi Leonard wasn't one of them, although he was on my fantasy basketball team this year.

• 1:13:08Speaker 01

  I actually liked that last answer better than anything before.

• 1:13:11Pablo Torre?

  100%.

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  I met a lot of investors, Kawhi Leonard wasn't the ones I met. But he was on my fantasy team.

• 1:13:17Pablo Torre?

  We'd never trade that guy, he's so good. So good at basketball.

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  I just, it is...

• 1:13:22Pablo Torre?

  I would have to go back and look at that. Is also not no?

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  That's such a weird response.

• 1:13:28Speaker 04

  Well, you're a politician, you don't want to say anything that you're gonna get caught.

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  You don't want to do what Steve Ballmer did after our first episode, which is get up there, say unequivocally, and have statements that say, this is irrefutable and all that stuff, and then we do a little bit more researching, like, ah, he kinda did.

• 1:13:43Pablo Torre?

  I dare say that all of this is the story of what happens after aspiration in the timeline of the Clippers and in the timeline of our investigation here. People are learning ostensibly lessons about what to do after that went horrifically bad. But now, we are back to Kawhi.

• 1:14:05Speaker 02

  When you were with Brett Johnson, you know, obviously, that's his soccer club there, you're watching Kawhi Leonard on the floor, he didn't mention to you, by the way, that guy right there loves Rhode Island and he has a piece of the soccer team.

• 1:14:17Speaker 07

  So I can't recall a specific... He did say that he's got investors out in California. I have met some of them, but I have never met Kawhi Leonard. Love to meet with him. I tell him that he's an unbelievable ballplayer.

• 1:14:29Speaker 04

  That one's harder for me to believe. When you're watching a game and you've got a relationship with a player, you're gonna show that off.

• 1:14:34Pablo Torre?

  Drop 27! Watching him drop 27 next to the guy who is his friend!

• 1:14:41Speaker 04

  And partner.

• 1:14:42Pablo Torre?

  And partner!

• 1:14:42Speaker 04

  And you're with the governor.

• 1:14:44Pablo Torre?

  But he can't recall.

• 1:14:44Speaker 04

  And by the way, the governor doesn't go alone to a game, can we just point that out too?

• 1:14:47Pablo Torre?

  Yes. But here, you will recall that Governor McKee had said to us that he, quote, "invited himself to the game", which is fun, because this is where we will now point out that when Eli and WPRI separately asked the governor's press secretary how the Clippers' tickets were purchased for the governor and Brett Johnson and their party,

• 1:15:12Pablo Torre?

  they were told in their newsroom that the seats were held, I mean, by...

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  380 AMK, a sports marketing agency that has no business with the state of Rhode Island.

• 1:15:28Pablo Torre?

  And while 380 AMK has no business with the state of Rhode Island, according to the governor of Rhode Island's press office, it is worth observing that 380 AMK, according to their own Instagram account, has worked with a company that has directly replaced aspiration in another very notable way. And that is the current Clippers jersey patch sponsor, I mean, the one Team Ballmer partnered with after aspiration collapsed in fraud.

• 1:16:00Speaker 01

  Visit Rwanda.

• 1:16:02Pablo Torre?

  In fact, 380 AMK, according to the LinkedIn page we found for one of their brand marketing people, is the agency that manages Visit Rwanda's partnership with Steve Ballmer's Los Angeles Clippers. Quote, "Delivering premium cultural brand experiences for C-suite executives, celebrities, and athletes."

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  Right, so 380 AMK, right, manages Visit Rwanda. They also hooked up the tickets, or sold the tickets, or provided the tickets.

• 1:16:34Pablo Torre?

  It's their seats.

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  It's their seats.

• 1:16:36Pablo Torre?

  Yes, they provided the tickets.

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  To the governor of Rhode Island, who is there with the owner of RIFC, who has an investment with Kawhi and Uncle Dennis and Mitch Frankel.

• 1:16:54Pablo Torre?

  This was all happening before we ever published a single thing, right?

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:16:58Pablo Torre?

  So I want to give them some grace that this web, which involves the governor of Rhode Island and the C-suite executive Brett Johnson, whose stadium deal the governor saved.

• 1:17:10Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, it takes us to, again, Visit Rwanda, which is itself the story of a foreign government embroiled in geopolitical controversy, using sports to clean up its image, that's its whole own thing.

• 1:17:22Speaker 01

  It's a whole episode.

• 1:17:23Pablo Torre?

  But for now, we reached out to 380 AMK for comment about whether anyone from the Clippers themselves were aware that Governor Dan McKee and Brett Johnson were visiting, and they didn't respond.

• 1:17:32Speaker 01

  So, in the governor's mind, so was Brett Johnson his guest? Did they go havesies on this? How does that work?

• 1:17:40Speaker 04

  Maybe it was just a coincidence.

• 1:17:41Speaker 01

  They just happened to send it together. "Oh Brett, what are you doing here?"

• 1:17:44Speaker 04

  What are the odds of that? Good to see you, man. Maybe everyone from Rhode Island has to sit in a certain section in the Intuit Dome.

• 1:17:49Speaker 01

  I like the idea of asking Brett, "What are you doing here?", and Brett's like, "Ah, nothing, just catching a game."

• 1:17:55Speaker 04

  What are you doing here?

• 1:17:55Speaker 01

  "I was just in town and wanted to catch a game, and I don't know anyone on the floor."

• 1:17:59Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, and look, the governor and one of his other people from Rhode Island, yeah, they had to reimburse their tickets and then pay personally for each of them.

• 1:18:06Speaker 04

  That's very normal.

• 1:18:07Pablo Torre?

  Of course.

• 1:18:07Speaker 04

  You have to do that.

• 1:18:08Pablo Torre?

  That part totally tracks. But I guess what I'm saying near the end here is this. Whether or not this all smells like an insane cap convention scheme to you, and whether or not the NBA is investigating any part of what we've just been discussing, the story of RIFC, and whether or not the league suspends or voids or does anything to Kawhi's contract or punishes Steve Ballmer's Clippers in any way at all, our mission here on this show is to journalistically pursue the very thing that Adam Silver has been saying he doesn't want to do, which is investigate where stories like this actually lead forever.

• 1:18:52Speaker 05

  Earlier, you need finality in these, and you could keep investigating forever, but you just have to...

• 1:18:56Pablo Torre?

  And the reason why we want to keep doing that, guys, is because this whole series from aspiration to RIFC should probably piss you off some, if you care at all about the concept of the public interest. Because according to Eli and WPRI, Governor Dan McKee effectively is the dude who greenlit the diversion of $27 million in public funding away from affordable housing and that development that Brett Johnson was advertising to help build Brett Johnson's stadium instead. And now, as the governor seeks reelection, Rhode Island taxpayers are gonna spend, and eye-popping, $116.6 million, that's the accounting now, over the next three decades to pay off the bond.

• 1:19:42Pablo Torre?

  While, by the way, Brett Johnson and company are also pursuing even more public subsidies for, yes, even more housing. Rhode Island FC actually says in that statement to us that it is working with new partners and has, quote, "finalized both city and state permitting for over 400 units of housing, which is now in full design. Construction will begin as soon as that design work is complete." End quote. Which brings us all the way back to why Brett Johnson and his quote-unquote friend Kawhi Leonard and Kawhi's Uncle Dennis were these benevolent investors, small b, in RIFC in the first place.

• 1:20:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, they're particularly interested in real estate, finding ways to invest in housing, particularly low-income areas. But again, their interest, Kawhi is very interested in using his capital to make a change in communities, and the housing is what's very important to him.

• 1:20:41Pablo Torre?

  Okay. And so here is my last question for you guys. If you had to guess, in this entire stadium project, which also involves many other developers seeking additional taxpayer-backed subsidies, how many of those hundreds of units of affordable housing do you think have been built as we sit here today under this roof?

• 1:21:06Speaker 01

  300 units.

• 1:21:09Speaker 04

  Can I go under that? It was only supposed to be hundreds. I'm gonna say 10% of what was promised. I would say 30 would be my number.

• 1:21:18Pablo Torre?

  I'm here to report that the correct answer is zero.

• 1:21:24Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:21:27Speaker 04

  I mean, under 10%.

• 1:21:29Pablo Torre?

  David, this remains something for them to aspire to.

• 1:21:35Speaker 01

  Benevolently.

• 1:21:45Pablo Torre?

  This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Metal Arc Media production. And additional reporting for this episode was provided by Michelle Sarah, David Cavucci, Andrew Ford, Dave Goodwin, Sam Koppelmann, Benson Lau, Matt Sullivan, and Tim White. For much, much more, incidentally, on the tale of RIFC in Rhode Island, visit wpri.com. And for breaking news updates on the NBA's investigation into Kawhi Leonard and the LA Clippers, I greatly urge you to subscribe to our YouTube channel. And I will remind you that our tip line is always open at 513-85-PABLO. But for now, I'll talk to you next time.

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