538 - 726 Demerits

On today’s episode, Karen covers Buffalo Calf Road Woman, the Cheyenne warrior who defeated Custer. For our sources, please visit https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode. Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Send your hometown stories to [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Join the Fan Cult to access ad-free episodes of My Favorite Murder. Members also receive merch store discounts, exclusive audio and video content and more! Visit www.fancult.supercast.com http://www.fancult.supercast.com/ to join. Shop for My Favorite Murder and other Exactly Right merchandise here: www.exactlyrightstore.com http://www.exactlyrightstore.com/. Rate, review and follow My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to listen. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is exactly right.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way. When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, the rubber hits the road. And what the feds uncover is a complex scheme of staged wrecks, financial fraud, and a pair of conspiring lovers behind it. This is a story about fake accidents that led to real consequences. Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

• 0:42Karen Kilgariff?

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• 0:46Georgia Hardstark?

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• 0:48Karen Kilgariff?

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• 0:54Georgia Hardstark?

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• 1:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Hatch Sleep Clock.

• 1:01Georgia Hardstark?

  The sleep tracker designed to get you to sleep. Available now on hatch.co.

• 1:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 1:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Hello and welcome.

• 1:25Georgia Hardstark?

  To my favorite murder.

• 1:27Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Georgia Hardstark.

• 1:27Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Karen Kilgariff.

• 1:29Karen Kilgariff?

  And we're about to take you on an emotional journey of the soul.

• 1:32Georgia Hardstark?

  I love that.

• 1:34Karen Kilgariff?

  It just came out.

• 1:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Of the podcast soul.

• 1:36Karen Kilgariff?

  It's located in your ears.

• 1:38Georgia Hardstark?

  In your eardrum. The long, dark tea time of the podcast soul. Okay, hi, you have something to show me?

• 1:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, hi.

• 1:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, hi. I forgot how to do this.

• 1:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, well, the thing I was gonna show you is... So in episode 533, An Exercise in Frustration, I told a story that featured many, many chin strap beards.

• 2:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 2:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And it was about Elizabeth Packard, who was the woman who was institutionalized, but her husband sent her to an insane asylum.

• 2:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 2:07Karen Kilgariff?

  And then she got out, fought for everybody's rights, but talking about her husband, it was this man, Theodopolis Packard.

• 2:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Theodopolis Theodopolis. So one of the best things I've ever said.

• 2:20Karen Kilgariff?

  You're truly the most proud of that one. It was pretty great. It was pretty great in the moment. But we were really enjoying his chin strap beards. They also came up in the Henderson-Leweling story, where the Quaker sex cult story that I recently told. They've just been around us recently.

• 2:35Georgia Hardstark?

  You've been sprinkling some neck beard into these stories here and there.

• 2:38Karen Kilgariff?

  And the listeners have responded.

• 2:40Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. Did we get chin strap hate mail?

• 2:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, yes, but no. It was essentially just people in the comments section talking about it. And so basically Jenny Scram on Instagram says, "It looks like John C. Riley is dressed up and doing a bit," which is very true.

• 2:56Georgia Hardstark?

  It does.

• 2:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Dressed up, but just in the bottom half of a beard. Erin Jalisa on Instagram says, "The chin strap beard was as bad as I imagined." Thank you. What in the hells be says, "How was this episode not called Beards Abound?" Great question. Baseball Girl 247 says, "I needed to see that chin strap beard to really get that story."

• 3:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 3:20Karen Kilgariff?

  It's terrifying.

• 3:21Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like, is that worse or a mullet worse? It's like an old timey mullet party in the front.

• 3:26Karen Kilgariff?

  I think this is worse, though, because this makes no goddamn sense. The chin is bare.

• 3:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, but they can eat soup. And I bet there was a lot of soup going around then.

• 3:35Karen Kilgariff?

  And stews.

• 3:36Georgia Hardstark?

  And stews.

• 3:36Karen Kilgariff?

  And porridges.

• 3:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is so hard to do when you have a beard. I've heard. My husband says.

• 3:42Karen Kilgariff?

  I just love that people got into that as well.

• 3:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 3:44Karen Kilgariff?

  So then it gave me this idea.

• 3:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 3:47Karen Kilgariff?

  When you gave me the assignment of watching the drama.

• 3:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Oh, no. You're gonna make me grow a neck beard?

• 3:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. And you have to do it in one week. I want to give you the assignment of you watch a movie called The Witness, which has so many neck beards in it, you wouldn't believe it.

• 4:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 4:04Karen Kilgariff?

  And then we're gonna talk about that movie.

• 4:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Which one is that?

• 4:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Harrison Ford, Kelly McGillis, Lucas Haas. Harrison Ford goes undercover in an Amish settlement.

• 4:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Sect? What are they called themselves? What year is it from?

• 4:17Karen Kilgariff?

  It's from like 89?

• 4:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, so Lucas Haas is a little boy.

• 4:20Karen Kilgariff?

  He's the best child actor ever.

• 4:22Georgia Hardstark?

  I had the biggest crush on him. He is so good.

• 4:24Karen Kilgariff?

  A legend.

• 4:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:25Karen Kilgariff?

  He's so good in this movie, like, it's so real.

• 4:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 4:29Karen Kilgariff?

  I think you're going to really...

• 4:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Should I text Vince and see if I've already seen it and just totally forget about it?

• 4:35Karen Kilgariff?

  But I feel like you'd, if I said Harrison Ford goes undercover with the Amish, you would've gone, "Oh yeah, I've seen that."

• 4:40Georgia Hardstark?

  I haven't seen it.

• 4:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, and that's very much tied to, so Witness is your assignment just in honor of the chin strap beard.

• 4:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Got it.

• 4:48Karen Kilgariff?

  But then also after that, we might do a Harrison Ford assignment of, "I must have you watch The Fugitive."

• 4:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. My assignment for you is you have to put on a fake beard and try and eat some stew with it on.

• 4:58Karen Kilgariff?

  No. I'm like, "Wait, that's not a..." Here's the thing, all you have to do is watch a movie.

• 5:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, Witness. And I wrote 1989. Why did, I don't need that.

• 5:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Was I right? No, it's 85.

• 5:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Damn it, 85. I'm changing it so I don't watch the wrong one.

• 5:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 5:14Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't watch the one from 80.

• 5:16Karen Kilgariff?

  89 Witness is so dirty.

• 5:18Georgia Hardstark?

  That is like, made for Cinemax.

• 5:21Karen Kilgariff?

  But I had a lot of fun watching the drama and then being like, "I'm going to make up an opinion about this and we're gonna discuss it on the fan call."

• 5:27Georgia Hardstark?

  I'll do it. Hell yeah.

• 5:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, great.

• 5:29Georgia Hardstark?

  It's gonna happen.

• 5:29Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a deal.

• 5:30Georgia Hardstark?

  I love assigning each other things to watch. Assign, assign each other assignments.

• 5:34Karen Kilgariff?

  I was provided some information just to convince you more. Witness has 92% on Rotten Tomatoes.

• 5:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, then I'll watch it. Cause you know how I live by the RT rating.

• 5:45Karen Kilgariff?

  You will only.

• 5:46Georgia Hardstark?

  That's all I ever talk about.

• 5:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Is this RT approved? Georgia's constantly saying?

• 5:50Georgia Hardstark?

  What did RT say about this? Cause...

• 5:52Karen Kilgariff?

  I gotta check into my RT.

• 5:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Speaking of rotten, we have a podcast network.

• 5:57Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 5:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Called Exactly Right Media. Here are some highlights. Please listen to these other podcasts for us. Thank you.

• 6:03Karen Kilgariff?

  We have roughly 16 incredible podcasts.

• 6:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Handpicked by us.

• 6:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Chosen.

• 6:10Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 6:11Karen Kilgariff?

  And then performed by some of the greats in the biz.

• 6:14Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 6:14Karen Kilgariff?

  A series of hit podcasts.

• 6:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 6:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Can't be denied. For example, our most recent hit, Disgraceland with Jake Brennan, that's here on the network. This week, Jake tells the classic true crime story behind Sonic Youth's album, Goo. It has one of the coolest album covers of all time and the shocking murders that inspired the artwork.

• 6:33Georgia Hardstark?

  That is a rad story.

• 6:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 6:35Georgia Hardstark?

  And then over on Ghosted, Roz celebrates Pride Month by featuring queer creators all June long, including this week's guest, the one and only Tammy Brown.

• 6:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Doing it.

• 6:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Epic.

• 6:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, not to be gross, but this is a reminder to join the fan cult. You get access to all episodes of this podcast, My Favorite Murder, ad-free. You get merch store discounts on our merch. You get exclusive video and audio content and so much more.

• 7:02Georgia Hardstark?

  So stop complaining and go to fancult.supercast.com. Why am I yelling at them?

• 7:06Karen Kilgariff?

  It's fun. We get to. We still get to.

• 7:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Cozy season is nearly upon us.

• 7:13Georgia Hardstark?

  That means crisp weather and soft layers.

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  Prepare accordingly with fall staples from Bombas.

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• 7:28Karen Kilgariff?

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• 7:36Georgia Hardstark?

  And for every Bombas item purchased, they donated an essential clothing item to someone facing housing insecurity, with more than 200 million items donated so far. Okay, so when fall comes around, I have a pair of the Bombas booties pretty much in every room so I can grab them when my feet inevitably become freezing, which they are constantly. And they're so comfy. You can wear them around the house. I wear them to bed and they just make everything feel a little cozier.

• 8:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to bombas.com/mfm and use code MFM for 20% off your first purchase.

• 8:08Georgia Hardstark?

  That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash MFM. Code MFM at checkout.

• 8:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 8:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yay.

• 8:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yay, you're off.

• 8:19Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm off the hook.

• 8:20Karen Kilgariff?

  You're on a three day weekend right now.

• 8:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, okay. Karen's gonna do a solo.

• 8:24Karen Kilgariff?

  It's my solo story. I saw a TikTok.

• 8:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 8:27Karen Kilgariff?

  I need a T-shirt that said, "I saw a TikTok."

• 8:29Georgia Hardstark?

  You do.

• 8:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Because it's all I say and kind of all I do. But it's great because, as we all know, we're getting into an era where experts are finally speaking and getting up on camera and getting on mic and being like, "Hey, you don't have to be, I don't know, Sidney Sweeney to get here and perform and speak publicly. It's not that big of a deal."

• 8:50Georgia Hardstark?

  I thought you were gonna talk about peptides.

• 8:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I will, because I'm the expert on peptides.

• 8:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 8:54Karen Kilgariff?

  The copper peptides are what you want these days. Just found out about that. But it's basically like, there's more and more people come forward to talk about stuff. So I find that on TikTok, I'm finding so many more people who are the source of the information.

• 9:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 9:08Karen Kilgariff?

  The researchers themselves, the authors themselves, the...

• 9:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Investigative journalists.

• 9:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly. All those people that are now the ones telling the story, which I love.

• 9:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 9:17Karen Kilgariff?

  So I don't know if this person is any of those things, but they're the reason that I learned about this story I'm about to tell you, and they inspired me to want to tell the story as well.

• 9:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Love it.

• 9:29Karen Kilgariff?

  So it's a TikTok from a woman named Mary Kate Teske.

• 9:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 9:34Karen Kilgariff?

  So that's her name on TikTok. If you want to go follow her, this is how I first found out about this story.

• 9:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 9:39Karen Kilgariff?

  So if you are listening to this, the day this episode comes out, which is June 25th, 2026, hi, your first day of listener. I want you to know today's the 150th anniversary of one of the most infamous battles in American history, the Battle of Little Big Horn, also known as Custer's Last Stand.

• 9:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 9:59Karen Kilgariff?

  On this day in 1876, Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer and his men were wiped out by Lakota, Northern Cheyenne, and Arapahoe warriors, who were under the command of legendary Native leaders like Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull. Of course, the history lesson we got about this battle presents Custer as some kind of noble martyr to our expanding nation and completely ignores the Native American experience and perspective and version. Of the story.

• 10:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 10:27Karen Kilgariff?

  But that changed around 2005 when Montana's tribal colleges began to spearhead a push to preserve the state's Native histories and storytelling. And so they gather a group of Northern Cheyenne storytellers in Billings, Montana, so that they can share their oral history of the Battle of Little Big Horn, which the Cheyenne and other Plains tribes actually called the Battle of the Greasy Grass. So for many people outside the Cheyenne community, they will be hearing for the first time that day, the truth about what happened. And what those storytellers in Billings describe ends up capturing headlines across the country because for the first time, we hear about the Cheyenne warrior responsible

• 11:11Karen Kilgariff?

  for Custer's death. So today, in honor of the 150th anniversary, I'm going to tell you the story of that warrior. Her name is Buffalo Calf Roadwoman.

• 11:23Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 11:24Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. Our sources for today's story are articles from the Independent Record and the Billings Gazette archives and the work of writers Rosemary and Joseph Agonito. And the rest of the sources are in our show notes. Okay, so everything in this is going to be very condensed and very like our version of things.

• 11:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 11:44Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the Karen, Georgia Wikipedia version of things.

• 11:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Called My Favorite Murder.

• 11:49Karen Kilgariff?

  No offense, Maren McLaughlin, my brilliant researcher, but to tell stories like this is like, I will assume people know as little as I do.

• 11:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 11:56Karen Kilgariff?

  About American history, about Native American history, about all these things that are really important that I just feel fully uneducated about.

• 12:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, right.

• 12:05Karen Kilgariff?

  So by the 1800s in America, the Cheyenne are a powerful nation spread across the Great Plains with a population in the thousands. They are a vibrant, horse-centric culture with a highly organized military system. And while Cheyenne warrior culture is largely associated with men, gender norms are not cut and dried with this tribe. Authors Rosemary and Joseph Agonito write about the Cheyenne, quote, "We have numerous accounts of women taking up weapons and risking their lives when attacked. Women were adept at using a variety of weapons, including the gun." End quote. So by the 1840s, what's going on in the United States is that we are aggressively

• 12:47Karen Kilgariff?

  expanding under the banner of manifest destiny, which is basically the belief that white Americans are ordained by God to spread across the North American continent and to take whatever they want, essentially. Right. So while the Cheyenne have long had to defend themselves against rival tribes, the defense is now needed to fight the encroachment of white settlers and the army. So as tensions ramp up, some Cheyenne leaders seek peace with the United States. At this point, the Cheyenne Nation is broadly divided into Northern and Southern Cheyenne. So Buffalo Calf Roadwoman is born into the Northern Cheyenne Tribe in what is now Montana.

• 13:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Her birth year is believed to be 1844, but unfortunately, we have almost no personal details about Buffalo Calf Roadwoman or her life because Cheyenne oral history is heavily disrupted by forced assimilation onto reservations and into places like Native American boarding schools, which that story also needs to be told. And I have been trying to work on a story about that, Maren and I have, for literally years. Yeah. To get it told correctly, concisely. Right. It's so expansive, it's so horrific. Yeah. And it's colonization. It's basically like, how do you tell the story of colonization in this country? Totally. So what we do know about the life of Buffalo Calf Roadwoman is that her childhood

• 14:12Karen Kilgariff?

  is shaped by an ever escalating tension with these white pioneers in the US military. In 1851, when she's about seven years old, the Treaty of Fort Laramie is signed in Wyoming. So it formally recognizes a large stretch of the Great Plains as belonging to seven different tribes that include the Cheyenne. But just a few years after that signing, in 1858, gold is discovered in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado, and so white miners flood the area in what's now remembered as the Pike's Peak Gold Rush. So even though this is supposed to be protected land, the United States does nothing to stop them. Then in 1861, the betrayal multiplies when the US signs a new treaty that shrinks Cheyenne

• 14:56Karen Kilgariff?

  territory down to a 13th, roughly a 13th of its previous size. Wow. So that it can open more land to white settlement and mining operations. Many Cheyenne simply refused to comply, continuing to hunt and live on land that is now suddenly declared off limits to them, even though they have lived there for literally thousands of years. Yeah. Buffalo Calf Roadwoman is around 15 years old when all of this starts taking place. She's coming of age as this violence begins to intensify across the plains. And as writer Catherine S. Gardner puts it, quote, "She never experienced the Cheyenne life of her elders. From birth until her death, her tribe and culture were continuously under threat of extermination," end quote.

• 15:40Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's kind of fascinating because she has, and it'll come up a little bit later, but she has a brother. And imagining the life of a young woman who absolutely had to know how to fight, Yeah. absolutely had to be good at it. And in their culture, which is a militaristic culture, that was a big thing for the Cheyenne. I just can't imagine that she didn't absolutely go get right into the training and the fray and everything else. She's a teenager watching her people being massacred. Right. So in stark contrast to Buffalo Calf Roadwoman's story and the fact that we barely know anything about it, we know a lot about the early life of George Armstrong Custer.

• 16:24Karen Kilgariff?

  He was born in Ohio in 1839. Just a few years before Buffalo Calf Roadwoman was born, Custer is largely raised in Michigan. He develops an early knack for getting into trouble. He does very badly in school. He graduates last in his class at West Point in 1861, last. That's kind of impressive. It's fucking nuts, though, that he's one of the most famous, like, military personalities. entities of this time. Yeah. And he was the worst student in his class in 1861. He had an unbelievable 726 demerits. Jesus. Which I guess is like, you're in trouble. Yeah. It happened that many times. But the Civil War starts the same year that he graduates, so the US Army is desperate

• 17:09Karen Kilgariff?

  to fill ranks and Custer quickly becomes an officer. Wow. But his blatant disobedience is what helps him arguably rise so quickly through the ranks. He shoots up the chain of command while in his early twenties and becomes the subject of glowing Union newspaper coverage, earning him the nickname "The Boy General." And some of that reputation is earned. Custer is known for charging straight into battle and relentlessly pushing his men while they're under fire, with he himself often riding in the front of the cavalry instead of the back. He is seemingly unfazed by the threat of death. Any of that sound familiar to a certain personality type that you've heard of over the years?

• 17:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Narcissist?

• 17:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Sociopath.

• 17:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Sociopath.

• 17:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 17:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep.

• 17:55Karen Kilgariff?

  He's just like, no rules apply to me.

• 17:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 17:58Karen Kilgariff?

  I do what I want.

• 17:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 18:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And, oh, if something horribly dangerous, let's all go over there.

• 18:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's do it.

• 18:04Karen Kilgariff?

  But he's also very smart, and he's keenly aware of the power of self-mythology. So his public image is very calculated. As Time Magazine points out, quote, "Custer ghost-wrote newspaper dispatches in which he pretended to be a correspondent and inflated his own roles in battles and military exploits."

• 18:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 18:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 18:25Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like he left comments in his own section.

• 18:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 18:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, I love this guy.

• 18:29Karen Kilgariff?

  He's so brave. What a great leader. He's also very flashy. He perfumes his flowing blonde hair with cinnamon oil, and he wears a custom blue velveteen jacket and a wide-brimmed hat and a bright red tie into battle. None of those are standard issue. That was-

• 18:46Georgia Hardstark?

  whimsical.

• 18:47Karen Kilgariff?

  -his costume. Custer clearly wants to stand out. It works. He's famous before the war is through. So meanwhile, the situation on the plains between the Cheyenne and the United States remains volatile. In November of 1864, these tensions boil over in a horrific way when an Army Colonel named John Shivington approaches a Cheyenne and Arapahoe camp at Sand Creek in eastern Colorado. There's about 700 people at this camp, and it's led by Southern Cheyenne Chief Black Kettle, who's repeatedly sought peace with the United States. So this is one of those many tribal leaders of the Native people who constantly were like, yeah, we, let's agree that, you know, let's do this. Let's divide up this land. There's plenty of it.

• 19:32Karen Kilgariff?

  We've been here a long time. And every single time, it'd be like, sure, sure. Here's some pox-filled blankets.

• 19:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Massacre, yeah.

• 19:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, to the point where at this camp, there's a white flag and an American flag flying, but Colorado's then-Governor John Evans does not seem to care. He wants the Cheyenne removed from this area. So Chivington and some 700 volunteer soldiers attack the camp, and they kill around 150 people.

• 20:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 20:01Karen Kilgariff?

  And most of them are women and children. The survivors are traumatized by memories of their loved ones being mutilated in front of them. News of the massacre spreads quickly across the Plains, provoking fury, despair, and the end of whatever hope was left that the US could be trusted by the Cheyenne and the native people. And even some white Americans are outraged at the time, and Chivington ends up resigning in disgrace. Still, neither he nor any of his men are criminally prosecuted for the massacre at Sand Creek. Now it's 1865, the Confederacy has been defeated, the Civil War comes to an end, so a now 25-year-old Custer is sent to the frontier.

• 20:43Karen Kilgariff?

  He swaps his blue velveteen for buckskins, which again are not standard issue, so he's got his new costume, his new personality, and his next assignment is to help force the Plains tribes onto US-designated reservations. These are very difficult campaigns for the United States. They are usually very much outmatched by the native warriors. Meanwhile, in 1867, Custer ditches his post to visit his wife in Kansas, which results in a court martial, his suspension from rank, and the loss of his paycheck for a year. Despite his insubordination, though, the US Army is convinced that they need someone as aggressive as Custer to fight against these resisting Plains tribes.

• 21:25Karen Kilgariff?

  So less than a year after being court-martialed, he's reinstated, and the newspapers refer to it as, quote, "Custer's luck."

• 21:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Really?

• 21:33Karen Kilgariff?

  The system is beyond rigged.

• 21:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 21:35Karen Kilgariff?

  So the next year in 1868, the now 29-year-old Custer is brought to Black Kettle's Village, now sitting on the Washeeda River in modern Oklahoma. There are plenty of things that keep you up at night. Your sleep tracker shouldn't be one of them. Hatch Sleep Clock does it differently. It tracks your sleep from your nightstand. No ring, wristband, or judgmental score waiting for you in the morning. Instead, you'll get personalized insights to understand your sleep and recommendations to build a routine you'll love night after night. Hatch Sleep Clock. The sleep tracker designed to get you to sleep. Available now on hatch.co. Goodbye. Let's be real. We don't all have time to keep up with the latest fashion trends. Some of us want to look stylish but have someone else to do the shopping. That's where Stitch Fix comes in.

• 22:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Their expert human stylists get to know your lifestyle and budget so they can pick pieces that actually work for you. Stop shopping and get styled today at stitchfix.com/murder to get $20 off your first order. That's stitchfix.com/murder. Goodbye. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Turning something you love into a career is exciting. Then come the invoices. Lucky for you, Squarespace can handle the business stuff so you can focus on your business. From consultations to events and experiences, you can showcase your skills with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business. With Squarespace's collection of cutting-edge design tools, anyone can build a beautiful, professional, online presence that perfectly fits their brand or business.

• 23:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Get paid on time with professional invoices and online payments. Plus, streamline your workflow with built-in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools. Head to squarespace.com/murder for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code MURDER to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Goodbye. Four years after the Sand Creek massacre, Black Kettle is still trying to broker peace with the United States, but the US military increasingly classifies any Native communities living outside the reservations to be, quote, "hostile adversaries." So Custer's men carry out another brutal attack. They killed dozens of Native people, including Black Kettle himself. They killed the chief. Hundreds of horses are slaughtered. And lodges are burned to the ground.

• 23:48Karen Kilgariff?

  So news of these attacks again spread rapidly across the Plains. And again, even among white settlers, the brutality and violence of this attack instantly makes Custer a controversial leader. But it also cements him as one of the United States' most well-known so-called, quote-unquote, "Indian fighters." Around the same time, in 1868, a second treaty of Fort Laramie is signed. The treaties have the same name because they're signed at Fort Laramie at both times. But this treaty establishes the Great Sioux Reservation and recognizes the Black Hills in the Dakota Territory as belonging to the Lakota. But the same situation plays out here like it did before. In 1874, gold is discovered in the Black Hills.

• 24:32Karen Kilgariff?

  White miners come flooding in. The US Army, for its part, sends Custer to investigate the reports of gold. He confirms them, and then that leads the US government to try to purchase the Black Hills back from the Lakota. Mm-hmm. Can you imagine? The Lakota say, "No," which begins to fuel tensions with the US, but then strengthens resistance among the Plains tribes. So it's the Lakota, the Arapaho, and the Cheyenne. So the US seizes the Black Hills from the Lakota in 1877. And just FYI, a century later, in 1980, the Supreme Court rules this seizure was unjust, and they awarded the Sioux Nation monetary compensation.

• 25:14Karen Kilgariff?

  But the Sioux Nation refused to take the money. Insisting they just want the land back. Wow. The fight to return this land continues to this day. It's believed that land is now worth more than a billion dollars. Jesus. By 1876, the conflict between the United States Army and a coalition of northern Cheyenne, Arapaho, and Lakota warriors has boiled over into the Great Sioux War. Buffalo Calf Roadwoman is now in her early 30s, and she's living in the Rosebud Valley of Montana, along Rosebud Creek, with Lakota and Arapaho allies. And here, in June of 1876, a US general named George Crook arrives-

• 25:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Outside of her camp with 1,300 of his men and the Native Coalition fights them in a battle that lasts several hours. According to tribal oral tradition, Buffalo Calf Roadwoman's brother, a warrior named Cumzensite, is among the thousands of Native men who charge the US soldiers. But during the fighting, Cumzensite is knocked off his horse and he gets trapped under fire. So essentially, in these battles, if you get knocked off your horse, it's basically you're dead because someone just comes by and shoots you. So he's on the ground. His death is all but insured until his sister, Buffalo Calf Roadwoman, jumps onto her horse and charges directly into battle.

• 26:39Karen Kilgariff?

  She rides so fast, no bullets can strike her. And per the oral account, she pulls her brother up onto her horse and she gets him to safety. Jesus. In the middle of a full-on war. In the end, the Native Coalition forces the US troops to retreat. Today, United States history remembers this event as the Battle of the Rosebud, but the Cheyenne remember it as the fight where the girl saved her brother. Wow. Buffalo Calf Roadwoman is believed to be the only female warrior who rides into this battle. Jesus. So this Native victory is extremely important because just eight days later, Custer arrives at another encampment belonging to the same Native Coalition.

• 27:22Karen Kilgariff?

  But this time, they're in the Little Big Horn Valley in southeastern Montana. And this time, crucially, Custer does not have the amount of troops, like reinforcements, that General Crook had. They have all retreated after the loss at the Battle of the Rosebud at the fight where the girl saved her brother. But on top of that, Custer badly underestimates the size of the Coalition that he is about to attack and probably the talent of it. Right. So on June 25th, 1876, Custer and around 600 soldiers arrive near the Little Big Horn encampment. His forces are split into several battalions intended to attack the camp from different directions. Custer himself heads north with about 200 men.

• 28:05Karen Kilgariff?

  But what they don't know is that word of this impending attack is spreading quickly among the tribes. They know it. Yeah. They have lookout, they know how to use this land and protect their camps. And so immediately, they know that it's happening and thousands of warriors rise up and ride into battle. Many of the same who had just fought the Battle of the Rosebud days earlier. Wow. The Battle of Little Big Horn is hard, fast, and totally chaotic. One US battalion attacks only to immediately retreat after realizing how incredibly outnumbered they are. Then a second battalion retreats. And so Custer looks around, all his men are leaving,

• 28:47Karen Kilgariff?

  but he makes himself and his 200 men push forward anyway. And they're completely overwhelmed. In less than an hour, every single soldier riding with Custer is killed, including Custer himself. Holy shit. And because there's no survivors who can report back to the army officially what happened, or to newspaper reporters, the historical record around Custer's last moments are very murky, which of course then sets the stage for the folk hero treatment that he ends up getting. What we do know is that Custer's body is found among dozens of his men with two bullet wounds. One is in his heart and the other's in his head. It's not until 2005 in Billings, Montana, when those Northern Cheyenne storytellers finally share

• 29:31Karen Kilgariff?

  their oral history of Little Big Horn, that we learn what really happened. They say that Colonel Custer was shot to death on the ground because he got knocked off his horse by a Warriors' club. And that day, they reveal that the same woman who saved her brother from certain death in the battle days before is the one who knocked Custer off his horse. It's Buffalo Calf Road Woman. Oh, my God. And the oral accounts describe her as being, quote, "out in the open during this intense battle." Wasn't like she was off to the side or whatever. She was in the fray. And they also confirmed that, quote, "she stayed on her horse the entire time." Wow.

• 30:14Karen Kilgariff?

  So the Battle of Little Big Horn is arguably the most famous Native victory of the Plains Wars and one of the most infamous defeats in the US Army's history. The Northern Cheyennes say that's the reason they kept the story of Buffalo Calf Roadwoman a secret for so long. They were afraid that when the Army heard that a Cheyenne woman is basically the one who got Custer killed, it would result in even harsher assaults by the Army on their tribes. Retaliation. Yeah. The US still seeks retribution for the defeat and Buffalo Calf Roadwoman, like many Cheyenne, remain under constant pressure from the military to submit to US authority or be killed. In 1877, she and her family will be forced onto an Oklahoma reservation.

• 30:58Karen Kilgariff?

  She spends about a year there enduring brutal living conditions, and it's believed there she gives birth to her second child. Not long after, in 1878, she and her family join what's known as the Northern Cheyenne Exodus, which was a desperate, defiant, and ultimately successful push led by the Northern Cheyenne chiefs Morningstar and Little Wolf to leave the reservation and return to its Montana homeland. So Buffalo Calf Roadwoman is one of the 300 women, men, and children who escaped the Oklahoma reservation. They set out on a dangerous, exhausting journey spanning hundreds of miles. Along the way, members of the group are captured by American troops, or they're killed in

• 31:40Karen Kilgariff?

  skirmishes, others die of exhaustion or of illness, and Buffalo Calf Roadwoman is among those. She dies in 1879, in her mid-30s, likely of diphtheria, we're not sure. She's believed to be buried somewhere near present-day Miles City, Montana, but her grave has never been identified. It's unclear how many members of this group ultimately made it to Montana. Sources suggest it's less than half the original number, so around 150 people. But this exodus puts enough political pressure on the US government that the Northern Cheyenne, who do make it to Montana, are not forced back to Oklahoma. This is how the Northern Cheyenne Indian Reservation in southeastern Montana is established in 1884.

• 32:25Karen Kilgariff?

  And of course... In death, General Custer and Buffalo Calf Road Woman could not have been treated more differently. Custer is the subject of countless history books, biographies, paintings, photographs, yet there isn't a single confirmed portrait of Buffalo Calf Road Woman to be found. And most of the images that you see online of her use either misidentified photos of other Native women

• 32:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 32:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Or sloppy AI where it's just

• 32:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 32:51Karen Kilgariff?

  sloppy AI. So in February of 2026, the Trump administration issues an executive order calling for a review of signs and exhibits at national parks and monuments that could be seen as critical of the US government. That includes signage at the site of the Battle of Little Big Horn. The Washington Post reported earlier this year that, quote, "At Little Big Horn Battlefield National Monument in Montana, exhibit text that described the United States being, quote, 'hungry for golden land and breaking promises to Native Americans' was ordered, changed, or removed."

• 33:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Just fucking rewrite history, why don't you?

• 33:28Karen Kilgariff?

  And erase it.

• 33:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 33:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Worked before. Another text describing how US Ronboarding Schools for Indigenous children violently erased cultural identities and language was also deemed not to comply with Trump's policy.

• 33:41Georgia Hardstark?

  If the facts don't comply with your policy, your fucking is wrong, your fucking policy. I, oh, okay.

• 33:48Karen Kilgariff?

  It's not an option.

• 33:50Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 33:51Karen Kilgariff?

  It's not a choice

• 33:51Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 33:52Karen Kilgariff?

  to say it didn't happen.

• 33:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, not for fucking people who aren't psychotic.

• 33:56Karen Kilgariff?

  So the Northern Cheyenne leadership is actively opposing this administration's efforts. Tribal leaders issued a press release this past February saying, quote, "This attempt to change or remove tribal markers and monuments dims the light of the healing and progress we have all made," end quote, which is a very generous thing to say

• 34:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 34:17Karen Kilgariff?

  in the light of Native American progress.

• 34:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 34:20Karen Kilgariff?

  And how little any government has ever given them

• 34:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 34:24Karen Kilgariff?

  or made for them.

• 34:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And you're trying to take that away as well.

• 34:28Karen Kilgariff?

  But that goes too. While there's never been a monument for Buffalo Calf Roadwoman, she has always been memorialized by her people who have carried the story of her courage, her strength, and her valor in two bloody battles for more than a century. When telling Buffalo Calf Roadwoman's story, a northern Cheyenne saying is often shared, and it says, quote, "A nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground. Then it is done, no matter how brave its warriors or how strong its weapons." Buffalo Calf Roadwoman's heart was never on the ground. She stayed on her horse the whole time. And that's what we're gonna do.

• 35:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Hell, yeah.

• 35:07Karen Kilgariff?

  And that's what we're gonna do.

• 35:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Tonight, we ride.

• 35:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Tonight, we ride. And that's the story of the Cheyenne warrior, the one who defeated Custer, Buffalo Calf Roadwoman.

• 35:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow. I wish we could have the actual, like, historical story, because I bet it's even more badass. And there's even more fucking incredible things she did that, like, and other women in, like, her tribe that we just don't know about.

• 35:32Karen Kilgariff?

  And in thinking about that, how many stories have been lost of people just like her because of the annihilation of the genocide of the Native American people in this country. It is a gigantic tragedy, the effects of which continue to this day.

• 35:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Yeah. Well, great job. I had never heard that. I'm so glad I did.

• 35:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? Me, too. I wish we could know more. Do you want to make a donation?

• 35:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Definitely.

• 35:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's donate to the Native American Rights Fund. Here's their quote about themselves. "They hold governments accountable. They fight to protect Native American rights, resources, and life ways through litigation, legal advocacy, and legal expertise."

• 36:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Hell, yeah.

• 36:12Karen Kilgariff?

  So we'll give them $10,000. If you want to donate to the Native American Rights Fund, go to narf.org and give them what you can give them.

• 36:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Amazing. Well, great job.

• 36:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you.

• 36:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Excellent solo episode.

• 36:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you, right?

• 36:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. There are plenty of things that keep you up at night. Your sleep tracker shouldn't be one of them.

• 36:32Karen Kilgariff?

  You know that feeling, laying in bed? Staring at the ceiling, counting all the times you said something weird.

• 36:37Georgia Hardstark?

  And then you wake up and check your sleep score. Now you have to start your day knowing that you failed at sleeping.

• 36:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Hatch Sleep Clock does it differently.

• 36:45Georgia Hardstark?

  It tracks your sleep from your nightstand. No ring, wristband, or judgmental score waiting for you in the morning.

• 36:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Instead, you'll get personalized insights to understand your sleep and recommendations to build a routine you'll love night after night.

• 36:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Fall asleep to the next chapter of an audiobook like The Odyssey, a nervous system reset meditation, or a calming sound bath.

• 37:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Then you can find out which gives you 20 more minutes of deep sleep each night.

• 37:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Hatch Sleep Clock.

• 37:09Karen Kilgariff?

  The sleep tracker designed to get you to sleep. Available now on hatch.co.

• 37:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 37:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's be real, we don't all have time to keep up with the latest fashion trends.

• 37:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Some of us want to look stylish but have someone else to do the shopping. That's where Stitch Fix comes in.

• 37:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Their expert human stylists get to know your lifestyle and budget so they can pick pieces that actually work for you.

• 37:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Stop shopping and get styled today at stitchfix.com/murder to get $20 off your first order.

• 37:35Karen Kilgariff?

  That's stitchfix.com/murder.

• 37:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 37:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's do another batch of hunking hoorays brought to you by Hyundai.

• 37:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Thanks Hyundai.

• 37:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Thanks Hyundai.

• 37:55Karen Kilgariff?

  This one, it's from Brittany A. and she wrote in the fan cult. It says, "My 97-year-old cowboy grandpa and longstanding conservative Mormon aunt told me they didn't vote for the current administration because of my wife and myself. We are married females of 10 years." And then in parentheses, it says, "That's a hooray all on its own." "They understand that their vote would go against my marriage, and they didn't want any part of that. Hearing this made me feel cared for and heard for the first time ever on this side of the family. Keep having the hard conversations because sometimes they'll listen." And it's Pride Month.

• 38:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God.

• 38:31Karen Kilgariff?

  But things can happen.

• 38:33Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm gonna cry.

• 38:34Karen Kilgariff?

  I know.

• 38:34Georgia Hardstark?

  So beautiful. Okay, this one is from Sierra Bonenberger. I don't know what that is.

• 38:40Karen Kilgariff?

  That's an online name, for sure.

• 38:42Georgia Hardstark?

  On Instagram. Today, I actually got off work early enough to make happy hour at our local wine bar.

• 38:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 38:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Hashtag TGIF.

• 38:50Karen Kilgariff?

  I hope she went to TGIF.

• 38:51Georgia Hardstark?

  That's our local wine bar.

• 38:53Karen Kilgariff?

  She gets the best wine at TGIF.

• 38:55Georgia Hardstark?

  They have a Josh Sellers.

• 38:57Karen Kilgariff?

  It is. It's all yellow, top to tail, yellow. I get four cubes of ice and a shot of Dr. Pepper. Well, I mean, like, happy hour.

• 39:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Happy hour is, there's nothing like it.

• 39:09Karen Kilgariff?

  What a reward.

• 39:10Georgia Hardstark?

  If you're at happy hour, your life is going well.

• 39:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, and don't forget, you don't have to drink at happy hour. You can eat their weird hors d'oeuvres.

• 39:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. Get those happy hour sliders.

• 39:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Get in there. Uh, it's very similar, but on the other end of the spectrum. This is from Eat, Shoots and Travels over on Instagram, and they say, "I paid off my mortgage."

• 39:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 39:30Karen Kilgariff?

  At 43, by myself. I'm not rich. I just saved really hard, literal tears at the bank.

• 39:36Georgia Hardstark?

  God.

• 39:37Karen Kilgariff?

  I love that. Can you imagine? You're just, like, standing in the bank, like, it doesn't matter to you.

• 39:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 39:42Karen Kilgariff?

  You don't know what this is, but I am absolutely getting myself to a brand-new place.

• 39:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, this is a life-changing experience, and I'm gonna cry in front of strangers.

• 39:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, you better cry. At 43?

• 39:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Dude, incredible. Okay, this is from Taylor on her email. "My hooray is that my friend and I signed up for water aerobics."

• 40:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 40:00Georgia Hardstark?

  As 32-year-olds.

• 40:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 40:02Georgia Hardstark?

  And we love it. "I love the water and was frustrated by the lack of swimming in adulthood."

• 40:07Karen Kilgariff?

  That's so true. Yeah, there's not enough.

• 40:09Georgia Hardstark?

  "I dive in every class, and the older ladies are always shocked and slightly offended, but they're sweet and have added me to their swim sister's email chain."

• 40:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my God, so much shit is talked on that email chain.

• 40:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Betty, you're not gonna believe it.

• 40:23Karen Kilgariff?

  You shouldn't have seen the way she looked in her three-piece suit.

• 40:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Three-piece? We talk about books. We were nervous to go, her friend and her, but it's now a big highlight of my week, and actually a decent, no-impact workout.

• 40:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, it's water.

• 40:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Hell, yeah. "Plus, I had an excuse to buy bright yellow shower sandals with carrots and bunnies on them in Chinatown."

• 40:43Karen Kilgariff?

  That is such a good pastime, kind of like, way to fill your time.

• 40:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 40:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Because it's very social. You know, shoulders and head above water almost the whole time.

• 40:51Georgia Hardstark?

  You're not gonna get fucked up.

• 40:52Karen Kilgariff?

  You can chat, chat, chat.

• 40:54Georgia Hardstark?

  I really love an alt workout routine is my favorite thing.

• 40:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 40:57Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm not gonna do it.

• 40:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 40:58Georgia Hardstark?

  I love knowing about them.

• 40:59Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm not gonna do any of it, but I love a pool.

• 41:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Love a pool.

• 41:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Love a pool. This is a fastie because it's Meghan writing in from Fan cult and saying, "This morning, I flipped the eggs without bursting the yolks. I finally found the perfect oil to heat ratio."

• 41:14Georgia Hardstark?

  And they're not gonna tell us like this?

• 41:16Karen Kilgariff?

  No, no, totally gatekeeping that. But just letting the world know that Meghan T. had her egg victory this morning. Congratulations.

• 41:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Congratulations. I've never done it. Well, thank you to Hyundai for presenting these honking arrays. And thank you guys for writing them in. Please write them in more and we'll read them.

• 41:30Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. And also stay sexy.

• 41:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't get murdered.

• 41:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 41:44Karen Kilgariff?

  This has been an Exactly Right production.

• 41:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.

• 41:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Our editor is Aristotle Lassaveto.

• 41:51Georgia Hardstark?

  This episode was mixed by Leona Scolacci.

• 41:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Our researchers are Mary McGlashan and Ally Elkin.

• 41:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Email your hometowns to [email protected].

• 41:59Karen Kilgariff?

  And follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder.

• 42:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 42:07Karen Kilgariff?

  And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix.

• 42:09Georgia Hardstark?

  And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the remind me buttons. That's the best way you can support our show.

• 42:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 42:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Vacation planning should feel like a breeze, not a deep dive into countless travel sites searching for the best deal.

• 42:25Georgia Hardstark?

  With CheapCaribbean's Budget Beach Finder, you can search every destination and every date all in one search.

• 42:30Karen Kilgariff?

  You'll save time and money with the Budget Beach Finder.

• 42:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Say goodbye to endless scrolling and tab hopping and hello to budget beach bliss at your fingertips.

• 42:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to CheapCaribbean.com to try out the Budget Beach Finder and see just how stress-free vacation planning should be. Goodbye.

• 42:46Speaker 04

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• 43:16Georgia Hardstark?

  In the summer, healthy habits are easy to keep, until you leave the house.

• 43:20Karen Kilgariff?

  You walk out the door and the next thing you know, you're barefoot and feral in a gas station candy aisle.

• 43:25Georgia Hardstark?

  That's why Kachava makes it easy to maintain your routines.

• 43:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Kachava is an all-in-one nutrition shake, and now it comes in new travel packs.

• 43:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Every packet gives you a simple shake with protein, fiber, vitamins and minerals, greens, probiotics, omegas, electrolytes, and more.

• 43:40Karen Kilgariff?

  They're easy to toss into a bag, easy to take on the road, and a simple way to stick with your normal wellness habits, even when your schedule changes.

• 43:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Man, that Kachava matcha in the individual packs is like my dream snack. It's exactly what I need and want in between the like, not great meals I'm eating for lunch, and the snacks I would have had anyways that are terrible for me. Like, this is something I feel like I'm treating myself when I take.

• 44:06Karen Kilgariff?

  You're treating yourself to vitamins, fiber, all these things that your body really wants and needs and kind of craves that, it does seem like it takes a big effort to get. So now you're getting it all in one packet and in a little drink you like.

• 44:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Take your daily ritual with you.

• 44:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to kachava.com and use code MFM for 15% off your first order.

• 44:24Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Kachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A dot com, code MFM.

• 44:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.