Pod Insights Pop Culture Happy Hour The Life of Chuck About this episode Stephen King's work has often contemplated the inevitability of death. But his latest adaptation, The Life of Chuck is a life-affirming film that challenges the cynic in everyone. It has a big cast including Tom Hiddleston, Chiwetel Ejiofor, Jacob Tremblay, Mark Hamill, and Nick Offerman. The film was directed and written for the screen by Mike Flanagan (The Haunting of Hill House and Midnight Mass).
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0:19 Linda Holmes? Stephen King's work has often contemplated the inevitability of death. But the latest King adaptation, The Life of Chuck, isn't a horror movie. It's life-affirming, and it will challenge the cynic in everyone. And it's got a big cast that includes Tom Hiddleston, Chouattel Edgiafor, Jacob Tremblay, Mark Hamill, and narrator Nick Offerman. I'm Linda Holmes, and today we're talking about The Life of Chuck on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour.
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2:27 Linda Holmes? Joining us today is B. A. Parker. She's one of the hosts of NPR's Code Switch podcast. Hello, Parker.
2:33 Speaker 03 Hi, thanks for having me.
2:34 Linda Holmes? Oh, thank you for being here. Also joining us is writer, comedian, and co-host of the Bad Romance podcast, Jordane Searls. Hello, Jordane. Welcome back. Thank you for having me back. Delightful as always. So, The Life of Chuck is based on a Stephen King novella of the same name. It's presented in three chapters. In the first, a teacher named Marty, played by Chouetel Edgfor, is living in a town where the world seems to be ending as a result of mysterious environmental catastrophes. One day, a billboard appears. A man with glasses sits at a desk, smiling, and the billboard says, "Thanks, Chuck, for 39 great years." Assuming Chuck is a guy retiring from some desk job, Marty and
3:19 Linda Holmes? his ex-wife try to make sense of everything that's happening, including new sightings of "Thanks, Chuck" imagery all over town. In the second chapter, we spend one day with middle-aged Chuck. He's played by a dancing Tom Hiddleston. In the third chapter, a young Chuck lives in a Victorian house with his grandparents, played by Mark Hamill and Mia Sarah. He learns that his grandfather believes the house is haunted. The film was directed and written for the screen by Mike Flanagan, probably best known for several well-regarded horror adaptations on Netflix, including The Haunting of Hill House and Midnight Mass. The film is in theaters now. I also want to say, this film is not terribly linear
4:02 Linda Holmes? plot-wise, and so if it feels that way as we talk about it, that's just because of the nature of the movie, and it makes sense kind of when it all comes together, but it's not that linear. It is a very mushy movie, or a schmaltzy movie in some ways. That, of course, works for me. I don't know if it will work for everybody. Parker, I want to start with you. How did this one strike you?
4:23 Speaker 03 It grew on me, I will say, because there is a while where it's like, it's leading up to something, and you're like, I don't know where this is going, so I'm gonna lean in. I think I personally, I'm leery of-
4:39 Speaker 03 Films that are leaning too hard on like being quote unquote life affirming.
4:44 Linda Holmes? Sure, yes.
4:44 Speaker 03 The cynic in me went with this with the greenest salt.
4:48 Linda Holmes? Yes, I think it is fair to say that the cynic in everybody has to be either settled down for this movie, or else will ultimately persuade you that the cynicism is justified.
5:03 Speaker 03 It made me miss like the Frank Darabont adaptations.
5:07 Linda Holmes? Yes, I get that. I get that. Jordan, how about you? Where did you come down on this one?
5:11 Speaker 04 I was kind of of two minds because there's one side of me that's just like, yes, sincerity, something nice happening in the movie theater. And then there's the other side of me that couldn't stop thinking about how audiences would react to it. And it kept on distracting me. So what I think is that it's very, it's very sweet.
5:30 Linda Holmes? It is sweet. I think that it's somewhat like anti cynical. And at the same time, it is basically a movie about the inevitability of death. It is a movie about being conscious of your mortality in a lot of ways. So it doesn't surprise me. I've heard a lot of talk about how this is somehow kind of a off brand thing for Stephen King and for Mike Flanagan because they're horror guys and this is not really a horror piece. But like, I think horror people often are consumed by thinking about death and thinking about the monsters that are out in the world. You know, the world is full of disasters and pain. And that everybody's story is going to end exactly the same way, which is you're going to die.
6:12 Linda Holmes? What do you do with that knowledge? And to me, that's kind of what this movie is about.
6:17 Speaker 03 The first like one third is very like waiting for a good dope. And I get it. Like it's the, everyone is trying to process what's happening. And instead of thinking about the mortality of it, I got caught up in like this cast of characters. Like you get like a Matthew Lillard and you get Carl Lumley, which I was like really excited to see. And everyone gets these like Mike Flanagan monologues, which I find to be like wave the film down a bit.
6:45 Linda Holmes? Well, and in fairness to Flanagan, a lot of those are Stephen King monologues. A lot of those are very similar. The whole Matthew Lillard thing where he's talking about like, you know, everything collapsing and acceptance and all that stuff.
6:57 Speaker 03 Yeah.
6:57 Linda Holmes? That's pretty much all straight out of the story. A lot of this is very, very true to the way the novella is written.
7:04 Speaker 03 Oh, Linda, that does not make me feel better about the movie.
7:08 Speaker 04 Also, I wanted to point out that like, Chuyetel Agiafor is really good in this. And between this and the new Bridget Jones, it's just been a nice year for him being in movies that I actually enjoy.
7:21 Linda Holmes? I get that.
7:21 Speaker 03 That's real. I get that, too. Yeah.
7:24 Linda Holmes? And with a little more humor in some cases, even though this is such a like sad thing, there is like some lightness and some kind of romantic charm to him in this.
7:32 Speaker 03 Yeah.
7:33 Speaker 04 Yeah, like if he was my ex-husband and the world was ending.
7:37 Speaker 03 Go to him.
7:37 Speaker 04 I would hang out with him.
7:38 Linda Holmes? 1,000%. And he's a teacher. I mean, listen.
7:42 Speaker 03 You get a Carl Sagan monologue. You get like all the things.
7:45 Linda Holmes? Yeah.
7:46 Speaker 05 The Big Bang happens in the first second, January 1st. And today, right now, we're in the final millisecond of the last minute of the last day.
7:58 Speaker 06 December 31st.
8:00 Speaker 03 It's just like Mike Flanagan, he'd be like, how you doing? It's like, well, to ask these questions, you have to look into the multitudes of the man. And I'm like, oh, let's ask how you were doing.
8:09 Linda Holmes? I think you're right. I think they're both like that. I think Flanagan and Stephen King are actually very similar writers in some ways and similar creators in some ways. They're always like, well, you know, I'm thinking a lot about the universe and the inevitable collapse of the solar system and how we're all doomed to fade into a tiny little dot and all that stuff.
8:27 Speaker 03 Just tell me how your day was.
8:28 Linda Holmes? And he has done a couple of Stephen King adaptations before. He did Gerald's Game and a couple of other things.
8:32 Speaker 03 I mean, like, I know that, like, for me personally, Flanagan, he can't beat like the melancholy and sadness of like The Haunting of Hill House. And like, I feel like everything that I watch of his, I'm still chasing that kind of like high of my introduction to him outside of Hush.
8:49 Linda Holmes? Right.
8:50 Speaker 03 Like objectively, I know what both King and Flanagan are going for, but I'm not the person who's like buying it, even though I know like it won the TIFF, like People's Choice Award and all these things.
9:02 Speaker 04 I mean, a lot of things win the TIFF People's Choice Award.
9:04 Speaker 03 Green Book.
9:06 Linda Holmes? That's true. That's true. I mean, the other thing is the winners of that People's Choice Award at the Toronto Festival often in the last 20 years or so have been Best Picture nominees.
9:16 Speaker 03 Yeah.
9:17 Linda Holmes? I would not defend everything that has won that award. Green Book, but also Three Billboards, a movie that I can't stand.
9:23 Speaker 03 That's real.
9:23 Linda Holmes? Also won that award. I get what you're saying. I do think this is an interesting addition to that list of films that has won that award. I'll just say that.
9:30 Speaker 03 It was like the same year of Enora and like all these other films at the festival. And they were like, this is the one that I'm very curious as to.
9:38 Speaker 04 Well, I liked it more than Enora, so maybe.
9:41 Speaker 03 That's fair. That's so fair.
9:43 Speaker 04 Yeah, I mean, it's very schmaltzy, but they're like, I loved the dad doing the monologue about Pornhub being down.
9:52 Linda Holmes? That was very funny. That's David Desmalchon, like doing that really good monologue lamenting how Pornhub is down as the world is ending. And that's another thing that's right from the novella. The character in the story doesn't actually say it, but Marty, the Chouetel Egia four character realizes, you know, hmm, I suspect that a lot of these parents are actually more worried about Pornhub.
10:16 Speaker 03 I mean, one thing I am was stricken most about the film was like the amount of whimsy that is in it. There are several dance sequences in the movie.
10:28 Linda Holmes? Yes, there are.
10:29 Speaker 03 And I was like, huh. I ended up re-listening to one of the songs on my way out the theater on my phone. Give Me Some Lovin'. Like, I was like, oh, this is, there was a whimsy to it that I appreciated and didn't expect from a Stephen King adaptation.
10:43 Speaker 04 I didn't expect to see Tom Hiddleston dancing like that. Like, that was really cool.
10:46 Speaker 03 He was moving.
10:47 Speaker 04 He was really, he was, he was out there. He was, he was cutting up.
10:51 Linda Holmes? I think the other thing that I would say about that sequence and the dance sequence and the Tom Hiddleston thing is they've kind of promoted this as a Tom Hiddleston movie, right? He's on the poster.
11:02 Speaker 03 Which feels inaccurate.
11:03 Linda Holmes? He's not in it that much, right? You see him do this dance sequence. You see him a few other times. He has one very nice scene with the woman who broke up with her boyfriend, who he runs into on that day. They have a chat. It's the apocalypse part, which is the first part. And it's the childhood part, which is really, you know, dominated not only by the actors who play him as a young person, but also by Mark Hamill, who is kind of the center of gravity of that last part of the movie. Yeah.
11:31 Speaker 03 I thought the casting of the younger versions of Chuck were so good that I was like, did they wait for Jacob Tremblay? I was like, how long did they film this?
11:43 Speaker 03 That was my mistake.
11:44 Linda Holmes? They do all look like they could be the same kid.
11:46 Speaker 03 Yeah. I was like, kudos to the casting director, but Mark Hamill, we underappreciate him. Like, he's Luke Skywalker, yes. But he like has this gravitas and like this sadness that I respected. And like, Flanders was able to pull out these layers of Mark Hamill that we haven't seen before.
12:05 Speaker 05 Math can do a lot of things. Math can be art, but it can't lie. So take another run at those two, because Chuck, you are good. You have art in you.
12:24 Speaker 04 The voice that Mark Hamill is doing as the grandfather and kind of like his energy of it reminds me of an animated character that he plays on Regular Show. He plays like this like immortal yeti named Skips. And honestly, his grandfather is like closest to Skips in a lot of the energy. And I really, I really liked that.
12:45 Linda Holmes? I very much enjoyed seeing him in this. Also, I'm so glad that in the trailer, they said Mia Sarah. Because otherwise, I would have sat there trying to figure out, who is that? That's real. Because I haven't seen Mia Sarah very much post Ferris Bueller. And I don't think she's been acting very much for the last 10 or 12 years. And when you see her, it's this like lovely moment of, I think there are just some really nice casting choices.
13:14 Speaker 04 She's so good. She's so beautiful. She's so alive, like every scene with her, like she's like, she's such a cool grandma.
13:22 Linda Holmes? And she really does, I think, cut through some of the potential. For it to be really schmaltzy because she really does seem like a really lively and individual and specific grandma. I think the other really nice piece of casting is I think they get away with a lot of voiceover, which again comes directly from the novella because they had it done by Nick Offerman, who always brings a kind of an
13:45 Speaker 03 Agravitas.
13:46 Linda Holmes? Agravitas and like a kind of a dryly funny.
13:50 Speaker 03 Yeah.
13:51 Speaker 04 Yeah.
13:51 Linda Holmes? And I think they get away with a little bit more of that voiceover than they otherwise would because he always has a little bit of that like arched eyebrow thing going on in everything that he does. So I think they definitely did do a really nice job of casting.
14:05 Speaker 03 Yeah, I think Flanagan has built this kind of band of actors that he can take along with him to different projects like Raoul Cooley, like Karen Gillian.
14:16 Speaker 04 Carl was also in The Fall of the House of Usher, which is like the most.
14:20 Linda Holmes? Oh, Carl Lumley was?
14:21 Speaker 03 Yeah, even like him like paying homage, like respecting like the older horror actors and bringing them into the fold.
14:28 Linda Holmes? Heather Langenkamp, right?
14:29 Speaker 04 Yeah.
14:29 Speaker 03 Heather Langenkamp, thank you. Haven't seen her and like a deck like happy to see her. That's what I was most
14:36 Linda Holmes? Yeah.
14:37 Speaker 03 excited about in seeing the film.
14:39 Linda Holmes? I definitely appreciated, you know, we talked a little bit about that it is corny in a way, but I, I sort of believe all this stuff, right? These are sentimental ideas in a way, but I, I believe that, that as you go through life, it is a series of smaller things that often stick out. You know, the dance sequence, which kind of has gotten the most attention. There's a dance sequence when he's a this middle aged like accountant. There's also a dance sequence that takes place at a school dance when he's a young person. Neither of these dance sequences are like, then they danced and all of a sudden he became a professional dancer and he was the best dancer anyone had ever seen.
15:15 Speaker 03 Yeah.
15:15 Linda Holmes? It's not that. It's just like, he had a really great time and everybody really enjoyed watching these people, this drummer and, and these two folks dancing. Like it's just a really nice thing. And I kind of do believe that that's how, that that is how meaning in life develops a lot of the time is smaller things.
15:33 Speaker 03 Yeah. This is my question, thinking about this film for, for the past like week or so. If the structure was more straightforward, would it still work?
15:42 Linda Holmes? I will say, when I read the novella, I assumed that in adapting it, they would simplify the structure of it, which is not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing. I just assumed that they would.
15:53 Speaker 03 It would Hollywood fire it.
15:54 Linda Holmes? Because Hollywood, to me, is reluctant to do this kind of tricky structural stuff. You know, both the going backward and also not really revealing that initial act and Chuck until a good ways into the movie.
16:07 Speaker 03 Yeah.
16:08 Speaker 04 I think it would feel different chronologically. Like, I don't know if I would say that it wouldn't work, but I think that, I think it wants to end on this hopeful note. And I don't know how hopeful it would feel otherwise.
16:24 Linda Holmes? Right. There's an element of mystery in it, particularly in the first part of it, where there is that mystery that comes up in a certain number of Stephen King's stories about what's going on, what's wrong. He is kind of an apocalypse guy. And so there's a little bit of mystery in that first section of the film. Why is the world ending and what does it have to do with all these billboards of Chuck? I'm curious if there's anything else that you guys want to talk about.
16:50 Speaker 04 How do we feel about you contain multitudes?
16:53 Speaker 03 Again, this is too earnest for me.
16:57 Linda Holmes? So there are a couple of different times in the movie where it comes up that Chuck is fond of this Walt Whitman poem, and specifically this passage about, "I am large, I contain multitudes," and has a conversation with the teacher about what that means.
17:11 Speaker 07 Everything you see, everything you know. The world, Chuck. Planes in the sky, manhole covers in the street. Every year that you live, that world inside your head will get bigger and brighter, and more detailed and complex.
17:28 Speaker 03 That's when it got too schmaltzy for me. It's, there's an earnestness to reaffirm the, like, the life-affirmingness of the-
17:38 Speaker 03 Peace, it like tries too hard to like hit this nail on the head that makes me step back from it.
17:46 Linda Holmes? Mm hmm.
17:47 Speaker 03 People who need it, love it for them.
17:49 Linda Holmes? Yeah, I get that. I do like the idea that sometimes a kid fastens onto a phrase from a piece of poetry or writing, because I do think that sometimes happens. And listen, if the worst thing I can say about a movie is that it makes an over effortful attempt to wrap up the ideas of mortality and death and Walt Whitman, that's, you're still in my area. You know what I mean?
18:14 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah.
18:15 Linda Holmes? Without sort of trying to like analyze what goes on in other people's heads. I always think part of that is that Hollywood has massively earned the skepticism that people have about overt sincerity and overt sentiment. There are many good reasons why, when people feel like the swelling music and the, you know, the dance sequence and stuff like that, why it creates in a lot of people that kind of like, ugh, that's because of a lot of bad movies that have been made and a lot of bad and manipulative storytelling that's been done that isn't ultimately very satisfying. So some people just don't like it because they don't like it.
18:53 Speaker 04 Yeah.
18:54 Linda Holmes? And other people, I think, have just seen too many things that are not thoughtful, that are schmaltzy.
19:01 Speaker 04 Yeah.
19:01 Linda Holmes? And so if your thing is both thoughtful and schmaltzy, which is kind of where I would put this, that can be a hard case to make, I think, you know?
19:10 Speaker 04 In my most optimistic mind, I would hope that it would maybe fill someone's heart, make it a few more sizes larger. That's never a bad thing.
19:20 Linda Holmes? Yeah, I mean, it's a very warm, fuzzy movie about the inevitability of death. I think it's definitely going to divide people. And what more can you ask from a movie about dancing? Tell us what you think about The Life of Chuck. Find us on Facebook at facebook.com slash PCHH and on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com slash NPR Pop Culture. We'll have a link in our episode description. That brings us to the end of our show. BA Parker, Jordane Searls, thank you so much for being here to talk all about the inevitability of death.
19:54 Speaker 04 A pleasure. Yeah, thanks for having us.
19:57 Linda Holmes? This episode is produced by Liz Metzger and Mike Katsoff and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Linda Holmes, and we'll see you all next time.
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