Retired SMU Operator | Pat McNamara (throwback episode)

Original airdate- 01/10/2023 Pat McNamara is a retired U. S. Army special operations veteran with decades of experience spanning Cold War Europe, Somalia, and post-9/11 operations, and is widely known for his no-nonsense approach to training and leadership. He now focuses on mentoring, fitness, and mental resilience through teaching and public engagement. Everything Pat Mac here: ⬇️ https://linktr.ee/tmacsinc?fbclid=PAAabWZ7z5lo5ydLXbE5PgpjJfoZtdtBPhxvVxFzbot-jObNuTXKMMEtlFvnc TrueWerk ⬇️ https://truewerk.com/house use code "HOUSE" for 15% off! 00:00 — Pat McNamara | Special Operations & Life After the Unit 06:12 — From Struggle to Discipline: Early Military Lessons 12:48 — Selection, Standards & Accountability in Tier-One Units 18:53 — Cold War Berlin: Tradecraft, Surveillance & USMLM Missions 25:12 — Spying on the Soviet Army in East Germany 34:17 — Berlin Wall Falls & End of Cold War Operations 36:34 — Somalia, Bosnia & Post-9/11 Reality 45:44 — Depression, Isolation & Finding Purpose After Service 1:09:57 — Connection Is the Cure: Brotherhood, Discipline & Recovery 1:23:54 — Legacy, Teaching the Next Generation & Final Thoughts Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:58Speaker 02

  The Team House with your hosts, Jack Murphy and David Park.

• 1:10Jack Murphy?

  Hey guys, I'm Jack Murphy here with David Park. This is the Team House. This is episode 180 something.

• 1:16Speaker 04

  84.

• 1:16Jack Murphy?

  84. Good call. We're here with our guest tonight, Patrick McNamara. Pat served in Special Forces and in an Army Special Mission Unit. And today he does some coaching through the Pat Mac Keep the Blades Alive program. We'll talk about that in a little bit. Pat, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us on a Tuesday evening, man.

• 1:38Speaker 04

  Thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate you allowing me to grace your company and your podcast.

• 1:45Jack Murphy?

  Absolutely, man. So, hey, we're gonna jump right into it, man. I'm gonna ask you, what's your origin story? If you're a superhero comic book guy, you know, were you bit by a radioactive spider? Was there some cosmic rays that you got hit with? I mean, what was what was your origin story like growing up and the sort of pathway that took you towards military service?

• 2:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's a funny, that's, I like that. I like the way you, you approach that. It's cool.

• 2:16Speaker 04

  Uh, I think it was kind of a slow transition because I was an oddball kid. I was a, I, I, I'm gonna say a gentle kid. You know, I did a lot of oddball hobbies. I, I'm an art, I still am an artist. Uh, uh, I'm an avid bird watcher and so was I back then, which, you know, didn't gain me a lot of popularity among the tough, among the tough kid crowd.

• 2:42Speaker 05

  The, the, the bird watchers didn't have groupies that would show up? Yeah, you didn't get mad girls bird watching?

• 2:48Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was, it's funny how that works. Apparently chicks don't really dig bird watching. It's funny how that works. But, um, yeah, I mean, just a lot of oddball stuff. Um, I had a metamorphosis, which, you know, so I guess my, my superpower, um, what'd you call it? What'd you?

• 3:11Speaker 05

  Superhero origin story.

• 3:13Speaker 04

  Origins. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was a, what was a metamorphosis of sorts. Um, uh, having, you know, just being a, a real gentle kid, getting my ass kicked by everybody, bullied by everybody. Uh, and, and one of them was the older brother. Uh, my older brother bullied the shit out of me and pretty much tormented me. Uh, and I was, uh, I, I didn't even like being in the, under the same roof as him. And my parents were, they were sort of wise to it, but they didn't know the extent because I wasn't gonna rat him out. Um, plus there was threats to me that, you know, if I ratted him out.

• 3:54Speaker 05

  Snitches, get stitches.

• 3:55Speaker 04

  Trouble. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but, um, he went to prison when I was four, for the first time he went to prison. I was about 14 years old and, um, that's when I had like a second chance. That was my first second lease on life, first one. I'll talk about my second one later. But, um, I had a second lease on life and, um, I joined a wrestling team at my high school. I sucked bad. I got beat by everybody. Uh, I started lifting weights and you know, when you're 14, 15, 16, you're growing. Had a couple of really cool mentors that would also, uh, teach me to fight and encourage me because they, they were the ones

• 4:37Speaker 04

  who said, dude, you got a year and a half, just under two years before your brother gets out of prison. What are you gonna do? What's your recourse? How are you gonna face that freaking monster? Because they all knew, everybody knew. My parents were in denial. So they helped me out a lot. Then I got good at wrestling and I started getting good grades. And I loved the, um, you know, the camaraderie, the team, the team camaraderie. Um, and, and the physical turmoil, you know, and the, um, the personal gain, you know, the, the feeling of winning. I loved it. I loved that. Uh, so I think that was

• 5:18Speaker 04

  one of, one of my driving forces is once I graduated high school, I wanted to feel that feeling again. Oh, by the way, when my brother get back from prison, I kicked his ass.

• 5:30Speaker 05

  Nice.

• 5:31Speaker 04

  In front of my parents.

• 5:32Speaker 05

  Nice.

• 5:34Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 5:34Speaker 05

  And did that set up a new relationship between you two? Just out of curiosity, like, did it set a boundary? Did you guys have a kumbaya moment after that?

• 5:42Speaker 04

  No, hell no. I, I, I hated his guts till the day he died. Yep.

• 5:46Jack Murphy?

  Well, that's, that's, that's definitely, uh, probably the best superhero origin we've heard on the show so far about like hitting the gym, wanting to wrestle and kicking your tormentor's ass. That's pretty good.

• 5:56Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Um, uh, but it really, I mean, I do owe him, right? I, so I do have to credit him to some degree for being just a total douchebag. Uh, but yep, nah, we'd never buried the hatchet. Nope. And that wasn't gonna happen. He never changed, never changed. He was one of those, um, you know, leeches on society, never were just that got handed free shit. Yeah.

• 6:22Jack Murphy?

  Wouldn't take responsibility.

• 6:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. In and out of the prison system forever. Thought he was a tough guy. Covered with jailhouse tats, just a real work of, you know, just a real piece, just a real mixed bag of loose spare parts. But, um, uh, yeah, so I knew I needed that again, you know, that, that, uh, that camaraderie, that team cohesion, that, uh, physical turmoil, um, winning, uh, winning and, and losing too, you know, all that stuff. Uh, and, uh, my dad was into it that I wanted to, uh, to join the military. He was into it big time. Uh, so he helped me. I did go

• 7:04Speaker 04

  to the recruiter, the recruiters, because I went to all of them. I did go on my own without him knowing when I was 17. And uh, the army at the time had the best answer because there was like immediate action. I could go into uh, become an airborne ranger or the SF baby program was a thing at that time here in 1983. Uh, and I came back and told my dad that then he said, did you sign anything? I said, um, not yet. I want to talk to you. We're going, we're going down with a lawyer.

• 7:36Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 7:38Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, he knows, he knows, you know, that recruiters can do some slimy shit.

• 7:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, it's, it's great. Yeah.

• 7:45Speaker 04

  And so he adjusted the paperwork, the recruiter did. He adjusted it. He made some, he made some kind of, he erased something and penciled something in. Uh, and I signed up for basically that the, the brand new 18 X-ray program, which meant I had to go to infantry basic training. So 13 weeks, what 12, 13 weeks there and then to airborne school and then to the SF course, if I made all that stuff. And then I get jacked up in airborne school. I was distinguished honor graduate in basic training. I go to airborne school and my second jump, I'm a freaking toe jumper.

• 8:22Speaker 05

  Oh my god.

• 8:23Speaker 04

  All the way across Friar drop zone. I'm the second one out, the last one to land. Thankfully it came loose. Yeah, all the way across. What's that, a minute and a half drop zone?

• 8:31Speaker 05

  Oh my god. That for, for those, for, for people who don't know what a toe jumper is, can you please tell them and describe your experience as a toed jumper?

• 8:42Speaker 04

  Uh, the experience is off the road, man. Well, so when you first learn how to jump, you're jumping static line. So a static line hooks to an inboard cable and um, or to a, to a cable that runs the length of the aircraft. Uh, and once you jump out and reach the, the end of the static line, it deploys your chute for you. Uh, well, in this particular case, that static line got wrapped under my reserve and around my arm. So I was just outside the door, thankfully, uh, C1, I guess, I think thankfully, C130 versus C141. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. Uh, but it was bad immediately because

• 9:27Speaker 04

  this was also tearing my body apart. Right. Because I felt it. I felt it around my body and I was hitting the plane. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I visibly saw people going over me, right over the top of me. Oh, my God. And I was just spinning in circles and all I could vaguely remember, you know, the jump master briefing about, you know, putting a hand on a helmet and one on the reserve vaguely remember that, but there was no freaking way that was happening. I was, I was in an altered state of mind that was irreparable at that point. Uh, thankfully it came loose. I hit a few times and it came loose. Now, uh, under canopy, that's when

• 10:09Speaker 04

  I realized I am jacked up. I am jacked. I am jacked up. I'm jacked up. There was nothing but moans and groans coming from my body, just moans and groans. Um, I was just a limp sack of shit underneath a T10 parachute, just, just a limp, limp sack of shit. I hit the, I hit the deck. I land on my same injured side. And at the time I didn't know, but, um, I had a lot of injuries, including broken ribs and concussion, uh, dislocated shoulder. And I fall on that side. So there was no PLF, you know, parachute landing fall. Right. I had two points of contact, feet and that my injured side. Um, and then to add

• 10:52Speaker 04

  insult to injury, a gust of wind comes, whoosh, and now I'm getting drug across fire drop zone and I'm all bashed up. And then I could hear one of the black hats, one of the instructors yelling at me saying, get up leg, you over there getting drug, release one of your cable loop type canopy, release assemblies now leg. And I'm like, motherfucker. Except without that level of enthusiasm, but I did hear him and I knew he was yelling at me and I popped a cable, boom, the chute collapsed and then I'm laying there and I'm going, what in, what in the fuck just happened? This jumping thing sucks.

• 11:34Speaker 04

  But I did pack up my parachute in a kit bag, went back to the assembly area. Now, I still had no idea how bad I was. When I got there, I saw the black hats, they were looking, they were looking for people. Cause apparently I didn't know this, they saw that somebody was towed.

• 11:51Speaker 05

  Right.

• 11:51Speaker 04

  So now they're all looking, they're like, where is this dude? Well, I saw a buddy of mine and he goes, dude, are you okay? You look, you, cause I know I was ashen, I was shocky still. And I had blood, you know, coming down on this side of my brain bucket. And I said, bro, I am, I am hurt, something's really bad with my arm. And he goes, holy cow. On my B D U's, I had rope burns. And he's going, what the hell? And he says, take it off. I says, I can't, I can't move this arm, I cannot, there's no signal from here to there, there's none.

• 12:22Speaker 04

  So he helped me unbuckled my, um, um, button, my blouse and pulled it down. And then when I saw that bicep and I saw that it had been pulled down.

• 12:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:31Speaker 04

  My forearm.

• 12:32Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 12:33Speaker 04

  And like the skin was almost translucent, that's when I immediately heaved.

• 12:38Speaker 05

  Right.

• 12:38Speaker 04

  I just heaved. Cause now I knew why, why it was hurting so bad. And then the ribs, everything, but then the black hat saw that came over, hey, you the guy? Yes. And they were, dude, like velvet gloves, you know, velvet gloves. They were like, bro, sit down over here. The, um, the healer just left with a guy who broke his leg. We gotta bus you to Martin Army Hospital.

• 13:07Speaker 04

  So we, so I had to bus there and it was a bumpy ride.

• 13:10Speaker 05

  Right.

• 13:11Speaker 04

  Jiggling me all over the place, broken ribs and jacked up bicep.

• 13:17Speaker 04

  And then there's more, then there's more. The, the hospital, it's 1983, the hospital's filled with Grenada vets.

• 13:24Speaker 04

  Who had real injuries from, you know, air, airfield seizures and shit.

• 13:30Speaker 04

  Ah, anyway, that's it. That was how I started.

• 13:32Speaker 05

  So did you? So I mean, I know that having the bicep detached is a common injury with with that when you get towed. Did they do that? Do a surgery to reattach it then?

• 13:42Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You could see that scar there. Yeah.

• 13:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:46Speaker 04

  Yeah. And this bicep is still a lot smaller than my other one. But yeah, um, yeah, they had to dig it out of my forearm and put it back together. And the way he explained it to me says, this is the size of your bicep right now. This is what we could salvage.

• 14:02Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 14:03Speaker 04

  The surgeon's name was Perlich. I remember his name. Perlich. Redheaded dude.

• 14:08Jack Murphy?

  So that's that's cool that I mean, at least they didn't chapter you out of the military.

• 14:14Speaker 04

  No.

• 14:15Jack Murphy?

  Or med board you out of the military.

• 14:17Speaker 04

  Nope, nope, nope, nope. I was in the hospital for a minute.

• 14:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 14:22Speaker 04

  You know, I was there and then I was I had to work at the airport. Dude, it just sucked.

• 14:28Speaker 05

  You had to work.

• 14:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, I had to work there. I was on profile. I had to work at like 45th company airborne, whatever the hell it's called, training thingy. And yeah, I had to work there for a few months. Let me see, September, October, November, December. So through Christmas break, January, I think I jumped again in February.

• 14:49Speaker 05

  So you had to continue the course? They didn't just like?

• 14:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I had to continue. Now, I already been through all the other stuff.

• 14:56Speaker 05

  Right.

• 14:56Speaker 04

  So they just put me right on a plane.

• 14:57Speaker 05

  Right.

• 14:57Speaker 04

  They gave me a ground.

• 14:58Speaker 05

  Oh, that's good.

• 15:00Speaker 04

  And dude, they were they were cool as hell. The instructors put me first in the door and I remember this one jump master, you know, telling me stand in the door, I handed him my static line and he grabbed it from me and he looked me right in the face. You know, it's like, I got this thing.

• 15:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:16Speaker 04

  This is not going to check you up. They were cool as hell. They were cool as hell. They were cool as hell. So I did two firsts in the door because I had to get three more there. So two firsts in the doors and then one in the middle of the stick. Yeah. And then from there, did you go straight? From there, right to the SF course, which was, I mean, I'm not in peak shape now. When I was in the army, I was in peak shape. Right. You know, I was a state champion wrestler and weightlifter and I was badass.

• 15:48Speaker 04

  But uh, no, I'm out of shape and I got to start the SF course. I started on my birthday in 1984. Yep. On my 19th birthday. Uh, and it wasn't like today where they have like SFAS, they had pre-phase, which was nothing more than just an absolute smoke fest for a couple of weeks and just trim the fat. Let's see who could put up with this shit. You know, they were just making it up as they went. Uh, for the, the rest of that, the rest of the SF course was similar to what is today. But that was filled with several different road bumps too. I mean, one after the other, even at a kamikaze, I couldn't get hot shot, like, uh, I think like twice or three times a

• 16:29Speaker 04

  week, they would bring in hot A's, you know, and instead of C rations, because MREs weren't out just yet. They were almost there. Um, and in order to get hot A's, you had to do 10 pull-ups with your kid on and climb the rope. And I'd had no biceps still. I was still building this thing back. But you know, it, I was young and it didn't take long before I was able to knock them out again. Um, which sucked because you know, uh, before that I was one of these like, I was a pull-up. I had the pull-up record in basic training. Right. Now I couldn't, now I couldn't do any to feed myself. But uh, nah, you know, little, there was just tons of speed bumps like that. The SF course sucked.

• 17:09Speaker 04

  I failed out of first phase. Um, uh, and it was for bullshit reason, bullshit reason. I think it was a, the, the, the cadre at the time, they weren't too keen of us 18 x-rays, you know, as SF babies. Right. Um, and um, man, and back then they still had the survival program, you know, six days out in your worry and you're issued one ration, a live chicken or a live rabbit for those six days. And then you got like 21 tasks to complete in this, in this amount of time. But I did good on survival. I did good. And one of the instructors was, he was just jealous. They would come out every night and check on you. And he wrote me up for some bullshit. And, um, you know, I already had a couple red tick marks and that was that that put me over the edge.

• 17:54Speaker 04

  So I had to do first phase all over again, the whole thing.

• 17:58Speaker 05

  So they were really gatekeeping with the beginning of that 18 x-ray program?

• 18:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yep, absolutely.

• 18:09Speaker 04

  But I but I made it through and then I went to our first group.

• 18:14Speaker 04

  And then I learned pretty quick that I'm not, I'm not so special afterwards. Because what the hell does a, you know, 19 year old private, uh, private first class know? Not, you know, freaking asset to an A team. But I did get assigned to an A team. Uh, and you know, these guys were all either 82nd Airborne or first or second range battalion. You know, they were badass infantry men, you know, they all had all this infantry experience. I had nothing, zero goose egg. But but it went well. I was fast tracking. Um, I had, by the time I was, I think I was a buck sergeant.

• 18:53Speaker 04

  No, maybe staff. But by the time I was 22 years old, I had two SF MOSs, 18 Bravo, 18 Echo. And I was a whiskey nine. So combat dive and halo.

• 19:04Speaker 05

  Right.

• 19:05Speaker 04

  By the time I was 22. So I was fast tracking, fast tracking, you know? I was high speed, low drag at a early age.

• 19:14Speaker 04

  And and first group was fun, you know, but it was all fit stuff. It's peacetime army, you know, you're not gonna do anything, really.

• 19:21Speaker 05

  It was a lot of, a lot of, a lot of Thailand, Philippines, Korea at that time.

• 19:25Speaker 04

  Thailand, Philippines. Yep. Bingo. Yep. Yep. Yep. And I loved those trips. It was great, you know? Um, I I I immersed myself in the culture.

• 19:35Speaker 04

  But, uh, out of the blue, man, a bunch of us got, uh, pulled to this recruiting meeting. You know, like, hey, you meet the requirements, go see this recruiting building number, you know, hotel 104, whatever, something like that. And I went there and here's some dude in civilian clothes and long hair. He's in a suit.

• 19:56Speaker 04

  And he was so freaking vague.

• 20:00Speaker 04

  Okay, I mean, the the amount of ambiguity was ridiculous. I I I equate it to

• 20:06Speaker 04

  Will Smith and Men in Black. When he's in that room with the with the half dome chairs. Yeah. And he's asking Rip Torn now, what are we doing here again? He goes, Because you're the best of the best of the best.

• 20:19Speaker 04

  You're not on some intergalactic kegger here. But you know, so it was like, it was like, what? What? What is this? It was very vague, vague. I don't even think he said, I think he said, work in the European theater. You know, that kind of stuff. Mm hmm. Uh, and you're gonna, you know, learn a language. It, uh, you got to grow your hair out. You're gonna have a civilian, um, clothing allowance and this kind of crap. And I'm like, well, damn, that sounds a hell of a lot better than foreign internal defense. I mean, that sounds like, you know, it's interesting. It was interesting. I I said, hell, yeah. Because that's the thing, you know, with with the military, right? It's all about leveling up, getting doing the next thing. Right. The opportunity presents itself to say, yep, I want that. I want that course. I want that course. I want that school.

• 21:05Speaker 04

  Yep, I want to level up, level up, level up. I want to go to that battalion now or that unit. You know, um, especially if you're spending a career at it, you want to level up. Right. I mean, that's the objective. And that should be, that's a good metaphor for life, too. We should want to always continue to level up. It doesn't end, you know, that cycle.

• 21:26Speaker 04

  So, um,

• 21:29Speaker 04

  yeah, they sent me to DLI, you know, Defense Language Institute, Monterey, California, which is an eye opener.

• 21:36Speaker 04

  And then learn, learn German. You think you do, you know, and you you you you test out well, you know, yeah, three, three and freaking German, blah, blah, blah. And then you get there in the ground, you realize you don't know shit. Once again, here, here we go again. You don't know shit because, you know, actually speaking to people is a whole lot different than being in the classroom environment and just checking, talking to the teacher in your nice comfort zone. But, um, yeah, I immersed myself in that, too. I mean, I would, I would talk to small, like, uh, merchants and, um, uh, I joined a, um, Uh, oh, back to that, back to the, the job. So that was P S S E.

• 22:16Speaker 04

  Um, and, um, which was, it was, it was cool in that it was, uh, it was, it was, it was cloak and dagger shit, right? So it's, it's peacetime army, but we're in the heat of Cold War.

• 22:28Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 22:29Speaker 04

  So I had no idea that these things existed. Most people didn't, and most people didn't. Um, but, but they do and, and they still do. Shit like this still exists. Uh, so we were kind of, um, you know, we, we, we were the backup plan in case the balloon went up and Soviets invaded. So now we'd have a, a stay behind force in Berlin, because that was kind of the epicenter for everything spy, right? It was right in the middle of all the shit.

• 22:59Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 22:59Speaker 04

  Plus Berlin sat in the middle of Soviet East Germany too, you know? Um, so, uh, and it was cool. It was cloak and dagger shit. You're doing a lot. You, you're walking the streets. You're pounding the pavement a lot, you know, and you're working, um, you're working routes in case you have to pick up that double agent. You're, you're working routes. You're, you're, you're, you're, uh, uh, uh, monitoring signal sites, you're loading dead drop sites. It was all that street craft, uh, tradecraft stuff. I think they changed the name tradecraft to street craft, but, uh, anyway.

• 23:32Jack Murphy?

  Pat, I, I just want to point out for viewers out there, P S S E was the unit that preceded or came after Special Forces Detachment A in Berlin.

• 23:41Speaker 04

  Right.

• 23:42Jack Murphy?

  They had to, they had to kind of change the cover because it got exposed after Desert One. And, and P S S E, it cracked me from wrong, physical sensitive security element was the name.

• 23:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. Yeah.

• 23:54Jack Murphy?

  Pat, was there, was there a reason? I mean, when you think of that, when you think of that unit, often you think of 10th Group, but they were pulling people from everywhere. I, it sounds like.

• 24:03Speaker 04

  There was no, so that I think that was another change, right? There was no affiliation with 10th Group with P S S E.

• 24:08Jack Murphy?

  Okay.

• 24:09Speaker 04

  As there was with Dead A.

• 24:10Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 24:10Speaker 04

  No affiliation. Yep. Um, but it was, it was, it was, it was, it was fun. It was a fun job. You know, it really wasn't that, um,

• 24:21Speaker 04

  I wasn't as deep into the Cold War as I thought I was until my next job there.

• 24:30Speaker 04

  But it was great, man. You really learned, you know, the streets, the subway systems, the S-bonds, the merchants, the businesses, the bars, the alleys, you know, everything, the shithole hotels. You knew it inside and out. You really got to know that place well. And it was just like one exercise after the other, you know, with picking up agents and, you know, fought agents. But out of the blue, my sergeant major at that unit,

• 25:11Speaker 04

  he pulled me up one day and says, hey, man, there's a guy here I want you to talk to. Because the writing was on the wall that PSSC was going to close. The writing was on the wall, right? So that it was going to be short-lived. He says, there's a guy here I want you to meet. So I went down. Now here's his master sergeant. He's in BDU's. I got a freaking mullet and a stupid Fu Manchu mustache and big fat stupid German brown boots and a pleather jacket.

• 25:44Speaker 04

  And he said, hey, I work in another unit here. I'm like, come on.

• 25:53Speaker 04

  And this one sounded, this one sounded way cool. So this was USMLM, United States Military Liaison Mission. And he said, basically what we do is we spy on the Soviet Army in Soviet East Germany. And I was like, you gotta be shitting me, bro. Yes, where do I sign? And so I went through the interview process and it was all in German, the interview process. And the first thing he asked me in German was, can you explain to me in detail how a 35 millimeter camera, I almost said functioner, operates?

• 26:33Speaker 04

  I was like, yeah.

• 26:36Speaker 04

  Because I yeah, I could do that. But um, that job was cool as hell. Um, so we had this uh,

• 26:44Speaker 04

  uh, it was, it was kind of like overt, you know, spy.

• 26:47Jack Murphy?

  You were in uniform, right? When you had to do this.

• 26:49Speaker 04

  Yes, in uniform, in a military vehicle. No weapons, no, no signal, no comms, man. It was so stupid. I had, I argued with him about that, about the no comms thing, you know, after I'd been there a while. But uh, yeah, we had a soft cover for action, cover for status. And that was, we were a liaison unit to the Soviet Army. And we actually did some of that. But um, that would get us into Soviet East Germany. And we were issued maps by the Soviet Army. And these maps had big, yellow blobs on them. And these blobs were called PRAs, Permanently Restricted Area. That's where all the good shit is, though.

• 27:33Speaker 04

  You know, that's where all KGB comms and nuke SS 24s and, you know, uh, uh,

• 27:44Speaker 04

  what's, I'm trying to think of the other nuke ones. So not frogs and, but you know, the nuke, the nukes were SS 24s and maybe SS 21s. Shit, I forget. It's been a minute. But I used to know every piece of Soviet kit, every single one of them. Because they sent you to a school in Kent, um, in the UK, a British Military Intelligence School. And you'd learn, oh my God, man, you, you dream about Soviet kit in that school. You dream about it. And they have so much of it. I knew everything from flatfish radar to ZIL 131, to every variant of uh, BTR, to every variant of BMP, to every variant of T-80, you know, to, to, to the aircraft, you know, for every MiG, every uh,

• 28:30Speaker 04

  uh, Hilo, Halo, HIP, uh, uh, you know, just all of the helicopters. Um, and we were issued passes and that would get us over the Glinne Kabroka into Putzdam, East Germany. Uh, and we were basically given like a, you know, some.

• 28:51Speaker 04

  The missions came from higher up, you know, satellite imagery, that kind of thing. At the time too, East Germany was splitting into three quarters and we rotated through the quarters because the Brits were doing it and the French were doing it too.

• 29:05Speaker 04

  And we tried to collaborate, you know, change, exchange information, stuff like that. But a lot of times, uh, it, it, that inter-agency shit, just like anywhere else, you know, it's like knowledge is power. I don't want to give it up, which is frigging bullshit, bro. We're frigging fighting commies. You know, give me some info here. But that was a very, very, very exciting and fulfilling job, extremely.

• 29:27Speaker 05

  Pat, I, I don't know if, I don't know if you can speak to this and if not, you know, that's fine. I totally understand, but you have your cover for status, your cover for action as these military liaisons. You have these sites that are awfully, you know, obviously off limits. You're also under observation, I assume, all the time. How, how do you manage to, to like do your job? Recon, yeah. You know?

• 29:52Speaker 04

  Yep. Well, fortunately, see, we also went to military driving schools, right? Hosted by the Bundesnachrichtsdienst. I think I got that right. I haven't said that word in like 20 years.

• 30:08Speaker 04

  But, uh, uh, most of our driving was on like tank trails and such. We, we were navigating, we were navigating, this was before GPS.

• 30:19Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 30:20Speaker 04

  We were navigating on one over 24,000 topographical maps. That's how we were navigating and trip meter around the dashboard. You know, so you're navigating down tank trails and shit like this and they, and they went forever, forever. Then you hit a hardball. When you hit a hardball, I remember this too. Anytime you hit a hardball off a dirt road, you go the opposite direction for a few hundred meters and then turn around. Because our tire tracks were very distinguishable and the Stasi was out there looking for us. You know, the, the East German secret police.

• 30:53Speaker 04

  But, um, They uh, they didn't have people actively looking for us. Okay. But the Soviets knew what we were doing. So, and we would, we would actively go to training sites. And a lot of times, we would try to uh, elicit information from lower level dudes, you know, that weren't hardline colonies. I mean, you, you tempt a freaking private with a penthouse magazine and some Marlboro cigarettes, you're getting some information. Right.

• 31:20Speaker 04

  And then you sit down with them and you, you, and you share lunch. I remember sharing lunch with these two privates one day. They were caretakers for a training uh, uh, training, training, training site, training ground, training area.

• 31:35Speaker 04

  And they were living in a foxhole when we said, uh, and we travel in pairs and one of us speaks fluent Russian. And I'm the German speaker and the guy was asking, how long you been out here? He goes, oh, this is our third week living in this foxhole. Just guarding the training area. And they would get like rations delivered. And I called it brown cabbage and cardboard flavored bread. It was so commie.

• 32:01Speaker 04

  It was so typical commie, you know? So we made a fire and I'm busting out like, you know, crackling oat bran and Denny Moore beef stew. These guys nearly shit themselves. Evil temptations of the west. Dude, yes. I come from the big 7-11 in the sky, bro. That's where I come from.

• 32:25Speaker 04

  You know, that conscript army shit, man. You know, we, we were so freaking spoiled. We're so spoiled. We're so spoiled. We have no idea. You know, we have such first world problems. I, I've seen sov's get freaking hammered, hammered on antifreeze.

• 32:39Speaker 04

  Hammered. I've seen, I, I went into a barracks once. All the troops were out to, to the field, uh, SA 11, SA 11 compound. And uh, we, we, we, we've watched them leave on buses and a lot of them were in formation. We we snuck up, we we observed for a minute, we made a little racket too, to see if anybody was you know, and nobody, so we went in to this barracks and there was bulletin boards, we were snapping the shit, you know, taking pictures of everything and and and the smell in there was putrid in this barracks. And ammonia was killing my eyes and my nose, my sinuses. It's like, what the, what is this? What is this?

• 33:21Speaker 04

  And there was a stairwell that went downstairs to a basement. Um, and there was some windows, you know? Uh, we, we walked down the stairs and realized the plumbing of this barracks shit the bed. Oh, man, I can't believe I use that term with this story. So they just, they just drained all of the shit and piss right into the basement, right into the basement. Oh, my God. Yeah. Uh, you know, so it's funny, the shit we pissed and moaned about, but um, that was, yeah, it was, it was a cool, cool uh, time in in history for me.

• 33:57Jack Murphy?

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• 37:52Jack Murphy?

  All right, Pat, back to you.

• 37:53Speaker 05

  Pat, at the time, like, you know, you're a young Joe and like enjoying the high-speed life. Do you realize how much a part of history you are at that point in time?

• 38:04Jack Murphy?

  Really, man.

• 38:05Speaker 04

  No, hell no. Does anybody, when they're, when they're, when they're there? I mean, when the, when the Berlin Wall came down, I was right there. And during reunification, I had no idea the gravity of that. No idea.

• 38:15Jack Murphy?

  Can you tell us a little bit about that? Like, you look like, man, dude, listening to like, Front 242 and Anstranzende, New Button out there, the like, industrial music. As the wall comes down, wearing your leather jacket and the mustache and the glasses.

• 38:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 38:28Jack Murphy?

  It's badass. What was, I mean, what was that like, being there when, when this historic event happened?

• 38:33Speaker 04

  It, it, it, you know, it kind of snuck up on us, right? It was like, all of a sudden, one day.

• 38:39Jack Murphy?

  Right, right.

• 38:40Speaker 04

  This reunification's gonna happen. Well, what's first step? First step is wall comes down.

• 38:44Speaker 05

  Right.

• 38:45Speaker 04

  You know, because, because wall came down in 89, reunification didn't happen until 91.

• 38:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 38:50Speaker 04

  So I, I can't even imagine the logistics there, what went on, you know, in between there.

• 38:54Speaker 05

  Right.

• 38:55Speaker 04

  But, um, it was, uh, both, I, I was, I was partying at both. Now, a wall coming down? Not much of a party, to tell you the truth.

• 39:06Speaker 05

  Really?

• 39:07Speaker 04

  Not like reunification, bro. 91, reunification is when everybody start, you know, when the gates open.

• 39:13Speaker 05

  Yeah. Families are getting together that haven't seen each other.

• 39:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't think anybody realized that they partied all the way through the night until the sun came up. Because nobody was, we weren't, nobody's in bars and stuff. People were just bringing booze from every corner and crevice and glove box and trunk. You know, so right there, uh, under the, um, uh,

• 39:38Speaker 04

  The uh, not the Gedeckness Kirche, but the uh, uh, shit, Brandenburg tour, fuck shit. Right by the Brandenburg tour, you know, so that's where the big party was and just thousands and thousands of people and fires and fireworks and bands just setting up and I think David Hasselhoff was there too. Yeah. I think he was responsible for it. Probably, probably.

• 40:04Jack Murphy?

  And, and, and with, with PSSC, I mean, were you there looking to like scoop up some documents or maybe find defectors? I mean, what, what were you guys looking at?

• 40:12Speaker 04

  Nope, not at that point. At that point, like reunification, I was looking for another job. Yeah. Because wall comes down and we're reunified. Well, huh. So, so, and that was the end of it, you know? Right. Now I have to, I have to find a J O B. Yeah. That's when I went to selection for the unit.

• 40:31Jack Murphy?

  Okay, gotcha.

• 40:33Speaker 04

  Yep. Uh, because once again, level up. What's, what do I do now after this shit? Cause this was cool as hell. Right. What is there? There was only one thing, only one thing. Right. And to me, there was so much mystique there. I knew, I knew guys there. I had some buds that went, I knew nothing about the unit or nothing at all. Um, went to selection and I failed. I was like, well, damn, bro. Yeah. Had to go back to Germany and then I volunteered to go to SWIC. You know, Special Warfare Center to be an instructor because I want, because they gave me a second chance. The unit said you could come back to selection. I had broken ankle.

• 41:15Speaker 04

  Uh, so they said, make it a full year. Make sure you're ready, that you're strong. And I was like, hell yeah, bro. Not only that, but whoo, it was a risk and a half volunteering for SWIC because it was a four-year commitment and nobody wants to be in SWIC. That's a dead, that's a, that's a, that's a nail in a coffin. You know, that's a, that's a bad place to be.

• 41:38Speaker 04

  I mean, there are good places in SWIC, but I was on like the commo committee.

• 41:43Speaker 04

  Terminating traffic.

• 41:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:48Speaker 04

  And then went again a year later and I did well. I was like, oh, hell yeah, man.

• 41:54Speaker 04

  Uh, and then planted planted my ass there for 13 years. And then it was, you know, continuously trying to level up once again, level up, level up, level up. And it not only in like team positioning or unit, even against individuals, because I had a bit of an ego, right? Uh, about me, uh, because I was a, I was a top performer. Most places where that I went top performer. I get to the unit and I realized I'm mediocre. I'm mediocre. Now, maybe at the like top tier mediocre.

• 42:30Speaker 05

  Right.

• 42:31Speaker 04

  But still mediocre. And, and I continued to be that way for years. Just mediocre. Cause it was, there's, oh, it, it was amazing. It was best, best place, uh, you could ever work at ever. Um, but it comes with a price, you know, long work hours, uh, lot of, uh, lot of stress, lot of, uh, risk, a lot of injury. Um, and the stress was because you're always on the bubble.

• 43:01Speaker 04

  They reserve the right to fire your stinking ass at any given second. And it was easy to get fired from there. So you were always on the bubble, always short string. No, I say short string. They gave you a lot of slack, you know, they pull, they tons of slack. But at the end of that slack, it's an abrupt halt.

• 43:16Speaker 05

  When you say, when you say it was easy to get fired there, like what were some of the reasons that you saw guys fired that they might not get fired in other units?

• 43:26Speaker 04

  Tons of them. Uh, I, I, I, um, I'll tell you a wake up call for me was, uh, my first squadron training exercise, right? First squadron hit. I don't know if I shared this with, with many people, this one here. Uh, first squadron hit. I see a fly standby. Oh yeah, baby. Um, so squadron hit, multiple breach points. Uh, we all, I'm on that. I'm on like the best team in the unit. These guys were just top dogs in everything, physical, shooting tactics, all that shit.

• 44:00Speaker 04

  Multiple breach points simultaneous boom teams enter multiple breach points. I go into the first room and I go click instead of bang.

• 44:14Speaker 04

  I didn't think, I mean, my immediate action was fast, right? Cause I knew what happened. So slap rack, you know, instead of transitioning, I just slap rack, slap rack and got to work. And I was like, I hope nobody saw that. I troop sergeant major sees, I mean dudes, dudes are omnipotent. You know, when you get to that level, they're omnipotent. They're gonna see every freaking thing. And my troop sergeant major saw it. He docked me my, my proficiency pay for the month.

• 44:38Speaker 05

  No shit. Wow.

• 44:39Speaker 04

  So he hit me right in the pocketbook and that was a big raise. It was like $200 or something like that. I forget. It was substantial. Right. You know, on a GIs paycheck. But that fast. And he, and he also said, he goes, hey, uh,

• 44:55Speaker 04

  it, uh, you're on a shorter, you know, shorter string now. Right. Something like this happens again, we're gonna have to let you go. So it wasn't because I was like being negligent or doing something idiotic or moral and ethical, but they're gonna fire you. And there's a difference, right? So when dudes do that shit or like NDs, they happen, they happen. Right. Especially when you're, when you're, when you're training that much. Depending on the circumstance, a lot of times they'll fire you for a year. And, uh, bring you back as a relook and allow you to come back again. Uh, but anything moral or ethical dilemma, anything like that, you're gone. Easy. You're done. So compared to other units. Yeah.

• 45:39Speaker 04

  Dude, that's easy. You're out of here fired. Anything, any kind of moral, ethical, you know, so lying, uh, DUI, cheating, um, you know, any of that stuff, you are freaking absolutely gone. Uh, also if you wane or if you're falling behind in performance.

• 46:01Speaker 04

  Now, if you're a good dude, you're falling behind in performance, they might find a job for you in a different part of the building. You're not going to be a door kicker. You're not going to be an operator. But yep, very easy to get fired. And I love that. I love the accountability portion, you know? I loved it. I loved it. I mean, it was heartbreaking sometimes having buds, like, because I knew guys who would, I knew three people, similar story. This one, though, was kind of extreme. Guy was in on the weekend because dudes went in all the time and trained.

• 46:36Speaker 04

  Went out to train, came back, went into his vault. Nobody's there. It's like, I don't know, seven or eight in the morning. I think he was doing night fire, you know, and Sunday. Comes back, he's putting his guns away and he freaking, he sends one right into the floor. Boom. A, a, and he, you know, he could have put some freaking putty on that, but he turned himself in, you know? Nobody was there. I know three dudes who have turned themselves in for NDs. Three of them, three guys turned themselves in. Nobody was there. They turned, one guy was a simunitions round. He turned himself in. Wow. Damn. Yep. But, uh, I mean, it's, it was nice

• 47:17Speaker 04

  working in that type of environment. Very nice. It was so cool. So freaking cool.

• 47:23Jack Murphy?

  Pat, what, uh, what, what, we're just sorry, um, what, what year did you get to the unit? And to the extent that you can talk about, like, what was, what was sort of the, um, atmosphere in the unit at that time as far as like what was happening in the world? You mentioned the wall had come down by now. Like, what was the mission set that you were kind of training for and looking at?

• 47:42Speaker 04

  So I got there in 92. And immediately, so a year later, I'm on this hot shit team in May of 93. I get ones on my pager because we're going to get ID'd. You know, we're going to get ID'd in Somalia. Going to snatch him up or kill. I think it was, didn't matter. Yeah.

• 48:05Speaker 04

  I didn't think he needed to be captured.

• 48:07Jack Murphy?

  Is that the capture kill?

• 48:10Speaker 04

  Right, right, right. I mean, oh, you give me an option there?

• 48:12Jack Murphy?

  Right, right.

• 48:15Speaker 04

  Capturing somebody's hard, man.

• 48:16Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. But, but capture kill briefs, fine, even if you, you know, well, he got, he killed, he resisted, but it was a capture kill op. Yeah.

• 48:27Speaker 04

  So we trained our asses off, man. We went, you know, strictly uh uh um priority for all unit assets, three weeks and then um and then it got passed to another squadron.

• 48:40Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 48:42Speaker 04

  Uh, and then it got passed to another one. And we, you know, we were just passing down, hey, this is the some of the stuff we learned and doing this and that. And we just pass on the info. Uh, and so C Squadron went. Um, so after that, a big focus, this was kind of cool. Wait, let me think about this. Let me think about this. Um, nope, I'm not going to talk directly about that. I will say the next boogeyman that we were going after was um, uh, Gaddafi.

• 49:11Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 49:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, so he was on the radar. So um, uh, cool stories associated with that, but uh, nah, not super comfortable talking about the deets on that one. Um, so Gaddafi and then um, there was, we were doing some, and I'll be kind of vague on this one. We were doing some undercover stuff, which put us into parts of the world that we didn't have complete autonomy, right? But uh, but um, the next thing that emerged was um, you know, Bosnia.

• 49:40Speaker 04

  Um, and this new thing called PIPWICS, right? Persons indicted for war crimes. So the, the, the, that war had finished 95, 96 ish, you know, I think 96, that was it. That was it. Done, done. Not even sniper fire. Uh, you know, um, I was on Hillary Clinton's detail in 96.

• 50:01Speaker 05

  No shit.

• 50:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, when she was under sniper fire.

• 50:04Speaker 05

  So you can confirm snipers?

• 50:08Speaker 04

  Dude, it was Tuzla, Eagle Bay, Tuzla. That's like one of the safest places in the world.

• 50:15Speaker 04

  Ah, shit. And on that trip to Sheryl Crow hit on me.

• 50:19Speaker 05

  Really?

• 50:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's back when she was hot, too.

• 50:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, when all she wanted to do was have some fun?

• 50:26Speaker 04

  Boom. Yep, yep, yep.

• 50:29Speaker 05

  What was that, like a USO tour or like some?

• 50:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They came over with like, I think it was Sinbad, Sheryl Crow, and then Hillary came over with Chelsea.

• 50:42Speaker 04

  But yeah, there was, I've met a bunch of like goofy Uber lib politicians in the mid 90s over there. Like Geraldine Ferraro, Madeleine Albright, she was kind of cool, even though she was a Uber lib, but she was kind of cool still. But anyway, so the, so later 90s, you know, the Piflix come to play, persons indicted for war crimes. These guys are badass, man. You know, so now we're back to, oh, we have to actually scarf these guys up and they got to go to the Hague.

• 51:21Speaker 04

  You know, we can't just send out a drone or put a sniper in a, in a, in a, in a, you know, a hide site. This shit's got to be surgical as hell. And I got a few of those guys.

• 51:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, I got the first one, his name is Kristic, General Kristic, and then a couple other big names, but real freaking neat shit. I wish I could talk explicit about that, but eh, no need to, no need to.

• 51:53Speaker 05

  This is something that was really right up your alley, just from your previous missions in Germany, right?

• 51:58Speaker 04

  Yep, yep, yep. Yeah, it was cool, you know, because it was all plain clothes, it was cloak and dagger shit.

• 52:02Speaker 05

  Right.

• 52:03Speaker 04

  Yep. But it was, it was kind of like, you know, what the unit was made to do, you know what I mean?

• 52:09Speaker 05

  Right.

• 52:10Speaker 04

  This kind of stuff. And that was, that was, man, it was just bad, it was badass, yeah.

• 52:19Speaker 04

  And that, that fizzled out.

• 52:22Speaker 04

  Because we got them, we got them all.

• 52:26Speaker 04

  And then I was in S and T selection and training for, for a couple of years. The bummer of that story is.

• 52:35Speaker 04

  While I was in S and T, nine 11, nine 11, which means everybody's deploying, but a schmucks in S and T.

• 52:45Speaker 05

  But S and T.

• 52:47Speaker 04

  We're not freaking going anywhere. Nowhere. By the time I got over there, dudes had 150 combat hits, you know, in country or more.

• 52:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 52:59Speaker 04

  And here I am, I was at, oh, and I was, I made E nine by that point. So here I am, E nine, taking orders from a staff sergeant, which I didn't mind at all, bro.

• 53:09Speaker 05

  Right.

• 53:09Speaker 04

  E nine, a private E nine? Hell, yeah. The unit was probably one of the only places where you could be a private E nine. You know, make me a door kickers, E nine. Hell, yeah.

• 53:19Speaker 05

  Pat, I mean, you're actually a great authority then on this because being an S and T, how were those guys that were going over and then coming back? How were tactics and training involving, were they getting fed directly to you guys? Were, was, were, was the training course evolving like on the spot sort of in that?

• 53:39Speaker 04

  It pretty much stayed, it was, it's, it's so perfectly designed, it pretty much stayed exactly the way it is.

• 53:45Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 53:46Speaker 04

  Pretty much exactly the way it is. Yep. Because it was, it was designed for that in mind, that kind of shit, that counterterrorism stuff. So it did not change one freaking bit. What did change was the influx and people wanting to get to the unit.

• 54:02Speaker 05

  Right.

• 54:03Speaker 04

  Because we were getting some, man.

• 54:05Speaker 05

  Right.

• 54:06Speaker 04

  I mean, people were, you know, there were, there were a lot of like special forces teams and stuff getting some and other special ops units, but we were like, it was nonstop, nonstop. So guys really want to get there because a lot of, a lot of people weren't doing shit, you know?

• 54:21Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 54:23Speaker 04

  But yeah, the OTC, the operator traders course stayed, stayed pretty much exactly the same. Yep.

• 54:29Speaker 05

  And so what, what was it like by the time you got over to Afghanistan?

• 54:33Speaker 04

  I didn't go to Afghanistan.

• 54:33Speaker 05

  Oh, I'm sorry. Iraq then?

• 54:35Speaker 04

  Yep. Twice, twice to Iraq, real short trips. It was, it was still. Target rich. Mm hmm. You know, oh, because it was oh, four and oh, five. Oh, yeah, yeah. Uh, oh, four, I didn't do shit, man, because, oh, man, this is kind, it's kind of cool, though, too. Um, the unit sent me over because I was at the, oh, man, this, this was, this was a shit detail, but, but I did it.

• 55:01Speaker 04

  It was, it was at the end of my S and T. I, I had no team. I had no squadron. I had nobody.

• 55:10Speaker 04

  Uh, and they sent me over to Iraq to, um, to check out what the support element was doing. The mechanics, the engineers, the logistics, the logistics guys, um, the, the cooks, all that. You know, to check them out, to see how their security was. And man, it was bad. It was bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. Uh, so I did a lot of OJT on the ground with them because they were doing high risk shit, man. They were getting shot at more than we were.

• 55:39Speaker 04

  Uh, and then they, uh, the unit brought me back and I built a course for the support element. I built a course. Like a mini OTC. Dude, it was two weeks, very, very intensive. Yeah. Uh, all of the basic tactics, stuff of shooting, right? So right from BRM uh, to multiple target engagements, to, to pistol work, um, and then to, um,

• 56:08Speaker 04

  the, uh, all of the, uh, crucible weapons, damn it, man. I, I don't use these terms often anymore, but so all the crucible weapons. So anything that was belt fed or shoulder carried, we trained them all in that, a lot of driving, a lot of, uh, vehicle based scenarios, a lot of first aid. So now these guys are going back over. When I went back over with my former squadron, we were taking them out with us and they were like on street corners, cooks, bro. Yeah. No, my, a man and a mag 58.

• 56:43Speaker 04

  It was cool as hell. Yeah, cool as hell. Um, but uh, I, I, I, and, and I really liked that time working with them because dude, talk about appreciation because they idolized us. You know, the support element idolized us operators and now you're chummy chummy with them and you're teaching them all this cool freaking commando shit and they're like, what the fuck? This is the best thing ever. And then they're doing shit with freaking operators on the ground. Yeah. Granted, it's manning, it's manning freaking security positions, but that's a big freaking nickel for an engineer, for a cook, for a, uh, a mechanic. Yeah. No, you're on a freaking a mod deuce 50 cal and some of these guys like gotten into firefights

• 57:25Speaker 04

  like wah, you know, ripping rounds down, down, um, alleyways.

• 57:29Jack Murphy?

  The mechanics can be so salty because we, you know, we just break all their shit and then give it back to them. Now they're getting to go out on the.

• 57:35Speaker 05

  Well, cooks are the hardest working people in the military. I mean, you know, so to get some love is like, yeah.

• 57:42Speaker 04

  Brilliant. Yeah. So good. So good. But that's what makes the, the unit so freaking just absolute badass, man, you know? I spent a lot of time training the, my, um, my support element over there. I would shoot with them every week. I would have open range day and they, where they could come out and I'll run like scenarios for them and yeah. But, uh, yeah. So I stayed, uh, till 2005. I retired in 2005, 2005. Whew. And then life started.

• 58:12Speaker 05

  Right?

• 58:15Speaker 04

  It's like, what do I do now after I've, since I've grown up? What the hell? You know, and that transition could be spooky. Now, I did have some, uh, groundwork set already. I picked a little hanging fruit and took a job even before I retired. I got offered a job, uh, corporation to do military contract stuff, uh, pay me more. And I was like, you know, in familiar territory. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good. Good. Um, and it sucked, man. Now that, you know, since I'm, I'm out on my own, even when I was on my, so I worked for that corporation for about four, four and a half years and they laid me off. Best thing that could ever happen to me. Scared. One of the scariest moments in my life too.

• 58:57Speaker 04

  Cause I have family, little kids, all this shit. Um,

• 59:03Speaker 04

  But probably one of the best things that could have happened for growth, right?

• 59:06Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 59:07Speaker 04

  We need to be very uncomfortable in order to grow.

• 59:09Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 59:10Speaker 04

  Cause we need to, we get uncomfortable, we need to, we need to shit that exoskeleton and put on another exoskeleton. That's a little bit bigger.

• 59:17Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 59:22Speaker 04

  But when I got laid off, I was like, dude, what in the, I mean, I, I, I, I confided in a bunch of buddies of mine that had their own businesses. And they all said that they could get me work, but they all said the same thing. Just do it on your own. Just do it on your own. And man, I did, and it worked out. It worked out. Now ebbs and flows, right? When you run your own.

• 59:43Jack Murphy?

  Right, right.

• 59:44Speaker 04

  I mean, deep, dark holes, highs, just one freaking thing after the other. It never stopped ebbs and flows. I mean, uh, but I was doing well, but I knew I was working a lot too.

• 59:59Jack Murphy?

  This, this was you were doing tactical marksmanship courses and things like that?

• 1:00:03Speaker 04

  Yep, yep, yep, yep. And I had a full, uh, you know, slate, man. Everybody wanted it. I was doing, I was doing something that nobody else had. I was doing what I call a performance based training. So I was training dudes, kind of like a, um, a, uh, sports psychologist would train a professional athlete. I mean, that's like, what's the difference, man? That's what I would tell you guys, you know, what's the difference? You're, you're basically a professional athlete when you're at that level. So let's, uh, let's train like professional athletes and, um, but, um, so 2010 is when I generated T max, my company. And I was working my ass off, same time going through it, just an absolute bludgeon fest of, uh, marriage.

• 1:00:46Speaker 04

  Uh, tail end, tail end. It was real bad, real bad. I, I, I married something, you know, at the beginning of this, it was 16 year relationship. At the beginning of this, cool. Uh, she disclosed to me that she had some health issue, mental issues, but she was taking meds and everything. But pretty soon, you know, bipolar, so, but pretty soon she started abusing the meds.

• 1:01:05Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:01:06Speaker 04

  And drinking on them. Now that fucks up the neuro receptors in your head real bad. You know, when you're abusing prescription meds, which are absolute poison. If you're on prescription meds, try to get off of them. There's plenty of alternatives out there. Mother nature knows how to take care of us.

• 1:01:24Speaker 04

  Oh, man, that shit drives me crazy. Um, so she became a rave, absolute raving lunatic. Uh, just delusional and paranoid. It was bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad for years. I lived in a bonus room above my garage for five years. Uh, but I finally, that one came to an end. Thanks to the police in my town. Long story. I go on for freaking two hours on that one.

• 1:01:51Speaker 04

  And that was 2013. 2013 was my worst year and my best year, all wrapped in one, all wrapped in one. See, those of you out there listening, who did any kind of government contract stuff in 2013, you remember this thing called sequestration, sequestration.

• 1:02:16Speaker 04

  Bro, my calendar was full. 2013, you know, uh, Secret Service, Border Patrol, 80 second airborne, just one after the other. Sequestration happened in January 2013. Light switch, click, no work. Wow. You got no work and I'm in, you know, and I'm at the tail end of a divorce. Right. That's January. March, I move out. And I'm assuming this debt because we already been through a few mediations and I'm, I've, I've been through tons of mediations already, right? Tons of them. I am spending so much on lawyers.

• 1:02:55Speaker 04

  Um, and trying to clear this debt. It was after, it was, it, it, it absorb it in them out. I can't, I'm not, I'm not even going to mention the number. It was ridiculous. Cause I didn't even know that you could run like a debit card as a credit card, you know, because my ex was doing this shit. I had no idea. And I had to assume all this shit. Cause I thought it was just debit card, you know, it's debit, debit card. But some of them come with, you know, $30,000 worth of credit.

• 1:03:25Speaker 04

  Surprise. There was a lot of them.

• 1:03:29Speaker 04

  But uh, uh, so 13, all that shit happened. Um, I move out, I'm close to my kids. I'm 500 yards away in a condo.

• 1:03:39Speaker 04

  Uh, sequestration, not getting paid, just, just one freaking shit storm after the other. Uh, September 2013 is when I met, when I meet my current life.

• 1:03:52Speaker 04

  Which was, which has been, it's been,

• 1:03:57Speaker 04

  it's been a, it's been a dream come true. Remember earlier I said, second chance on life? That was the first time I got a second lease on life. I will tell you about the second time later. This is the second time. Not many of us get that, you know, second lease on life. So i- in order to get a second lease on life, shit's gotta be pretty bad. Right. You know, you gotta be down and out. You gotta be a, maybe a junkie or, or go completely bankrupt or, you know, shit's gotta be bad, you know? You've, you've, you've suffered major loss. Right.

• 1:04:25Speaker 04

  So that's when I meet Rebecca too.

• 1:04:29Speaker 04

  And uh, man, I just started life all, but at the time, that was 2013. I was 48 years, I'm 48 years old. I had to start life all over again at 48 years old. But um, it's been great. And uh, you know what pains me? I've said this on podcasts before. I've said this. And this, this is, this is a scary thought. This gives me, this makes me cringe. Knowing what I have right now, knowing, you know, what I have right now? Yeah. And being as happy and content and, and satisfied and busy as I am right now, I would do all that shit over again. I would do all that. I would do, I would, I would 100% do all that bullshit. I would live in that bonus room for five years.

• 1:05:13Speaker 04

  I would be accused of, be, of, of, of cheating six, seven, eight times a day, having the cops come over, showing them how I'm a bug in the house, how the TV's bugged, how I'm operating the TV from El Paso through my cellphone. How um, you know, uh, uh, I, I, the accusations were just freaking stupid. It was so, there were so many of them.

• 1:05:35Speaker 04

  But I would, I would change it. I would, I wouldn't change any of that.

• 1:05:38Speaker 05

  How? You know, a lot of guys, especially a lot of, a lot of guys coming from those high performing units. You know, have a difficult time transitioning into the civilian world to begin with.

• 1:05:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:05:50Speaker 05

  You know, you go from, from sixty to zero, as they say.

• 1:05:54Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:05:55Speaker 05

  You know, not only did you have that going on, but you had these, you know, really challenging issues at home where probably your own reality was being challenged on a daily basis.

• 1:06:06Speaker 04

  Right?

• 1:06:07Speaker 05

  Like, you're trying to deal with this transition to begin with, and then you have somebody who's, like, trying to impose this sort of psychotic frame over, over your world. How, how did you manage all that at the same time? Were you dealing with it well?

• 1:06:22Speaker 04

  No, no, no. Uh, I, I, now, I'll tell you how you manage it. You gotta stay busy, right? Um, so you said sixty to zero? You can't go to zero. You've gotta stay around sixty. You've got to stay. I don't give a shit if that's working, um, if that's, you know, becoming an entrepreneur or plowing a field. You've got to be mission focused. There's got to be meaning in your life. Fulfillment, you've got to have it because you've had it for so long. Especially career military guys, you know, career military, they've got, they need that. They need that camaraderie, that teamwork, that fulfillment, that work with meaning.

• 1:06:58Speaker 04

  I,

• 1:07:00Speaker 04

  I didn't, I, I, I, I was dealing with it well initially. Uh, but when I, when I was going through the last five years of that marriage, it was, it was bad. It was real bad. I was, um, I found myself in a very, very deep, dark hole. Um, it was like the,

• 1:07:22Speaker 05

  The pit of despair.

• 1:07:26Speaker 04

  I like to say that I could joke about any portion of my life, any injury, um, any mishap. The one, this one, though, is hard for me to joke about, uh, but it's important to talk about. I ran into a, a, a massive three to four year long spell of depression. I had no idea what depression is. But I was almost quitting. I was quitting on me. I was quitting. I was quitting. I was quitting. I was, uh, accepting mediocrity. Did you know you were quitting? I'm sorry? Did you know you were quitting or was it? Nope. There was, I had no idea. I was so tired of hearing and, and having to, you know,

• 1:08:10Speaker 04

  you know, hearing, I'm going to take a fall down the stairs, call the cops and tell them you pushed me. You know, it was just nonstop or having the cops come and say, hey, we found your wife in the village and she's drunk and on drugs. I was so tired. I was just tired, tired, tired. It was nonstop. There was not a day break. There wasn't a day, not a day break. I doubt there, there were a couple of hours of break in there. Uh, because even when I would go on trips, I, I, I'm, I'm in like, I mentioned already, like El Paso, training the border patrol. And my phone would ring non fucking stop, nonstop. Yeah. After, after a while, your, your nerves are shot, you know? Yeah. Your, your, your neuroreceptors are shot.

• 1:08:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. There, I was, I was almost done, but then I had an epiphany moment. And I've mentioned this before in a couple of podcasts, but I think it's worth re-mentioning. Um, I had an epiphany moment. Uh, and it was mainly because I was talking to my, my, my son. He was a sweet little cute as hell boy at the time. I was shitfaced drunk out of my mind because I was drinking all day long, every day.

• 1:09:20Speaker 04

  And I realized, I, I told him, I said, James, I don't just, I don't just love you. I am in love with you. And he started crying. I don't know how old he was. I forget. I could do the math on figure out probably eight or something like that, but, um, maybe younger, six, six. Uh, and I realized, man, and I put him to bed. I realized this kid needs me, man. He needs me. I have to be around. And, um, I said, well,

• 1:09:49Speaker 04

  I don't know where this came from, but um, I put out my running shoes, uh, set an alarm clock, put out my um, I iPod, uh, got up early, it was a Saturday or Sunday, it was a weekend day. And I just started, I just started running, you know, it was like a Forrest Gump thing. What do I do? Let me just go for a run. And dude, I ran for like an hour and a half. I mean, it was a long time. I didn't run across Greenville County, but you know, I ran, I ran for a long time and then I came back. Um, and I did not want to go inside. I had to go inside to get food before I go up to my bonus room, but I didn't want to go in there.

• 1:10:32Speaker 04

  And then I, I realized, well, I'm going to work out more here in the driveway. And as I'm working out, a couple of things came to mind. One is I, I felt relief, you know, after that run, relief. I mean, good. Like I was remembering who the fuck I was. I was remembering this. And I said to myself, I will not, you will not defeat me. I will not be defeated. There is no freaking way. There was no way. And, and that's when I made up that mind, right? I, I just got, I just gave myself goosebumps.

• 1:11:00Speaker 05

  You gave me goosebumps.

• 1:11:01Speaker 04

  Yep. I will not. And then, um, and another part of me was saying, yeah, but bro, you're, you're buried. You're buried. And I said, nope. I counter argued. I said, nope. I have been planted. I'm going to grow out of this shit. I'm going to fucking grow out of it and I'm going to get better. I'm going to get stronger.

• 1:11:20Speaker 04

  So worst and best year, worst and best year. But that was one of the highlights right there. That changed that, that old school mindset, you know, just a, uh, you know, good sanity check.

• 1:11:33Speaker 05

  But it's back to your, it's back to your origin story, right? It's that, it's that. You're not gonna break me.

• 1:11:41Speaker 04

  Nope.

• 1:11:42Jack Murphy?

  It's so, it's so, like, I mean, I'm really glad that you're able to share that story. It's just so strange to think of like a depressed Pat McNamara like.

• 1:11:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

• 1:11:51Jack Murphy?

  I'm used to the high, high energy.

• 1:11:53Speaker 04

  Faking my ass off.

• 1:11:55Jack Murphy?

  The dude, the dude who's in better shape than guys half his age. I mean, that's, that's Pat McNamara.

• 1:12:00Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:12:01Speaker 05

  That is true. You know, I, I think one of the things that's hard with vets, whatever situation and, and not even people who aren't vets, you know, even, even our civilian friends is people who are really deep in it, they're often faking it, right? A lot of the people who are crying out for help.

• 1:12:19Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:12:20Speaker 05

  Like, like they're not quite there yet, but it's when a, when a dude or when a person is faking it, that, that we have no idea where they're at, but they're, they're spiraling hard a lot of times.

• 1:12:33Speaker 04

  You know, i- i- if a guy is, is suffering from that, like depression or alcoholism, they're not gonna, you're not gonna notice a call for help. You need to either really know him, know him really well, or, or assume.

• 1:12:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:12:45Speaker 04

  Cause I, I've talked to guys, I've talked to guys out, you know, who, who got out after I recovered from all this shit and got my shit together. And I just saw something, you know, they were bitter, you know what I mean? Bitter.

• 1:13:01Speaker 04

  And a couple of guys looked at me like I had a dick growing out of my forehead, but they still appreciated it. Where I pulled them aside, I say, hey, man, come out sometime, get out. I know you said you, you don't come out, come out, come out and get a pint. Here's my number. Give me a shot sometime. So I'm not, I'm not.

• 1:13:19Speaker 06

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  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:13:44Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you, you're not alone.

• 1:13:50Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

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  So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

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• 1:15:11Speaker 04

  Saying that I know, you know what I mean? I'm not putting them in a bad position. Right. But I am opening the door and so many of them have taken it and afterwards they've gone, dude, I cannot fucking tell you how much I appreciate this because the guys who are crying for help, I don't think they have a real frigging issue. I really don't. The guys who are seriously fucked up, you're not gonna know it unless you know them. Right. Or assume, or you assume, you assume, dude, you've been through a lot of shit. You know, I will assume to the point where a guy's happy and he's out. Because I just did this recently. I was chatting with a guy at my local pub. Yeah, I'm retiring. I say, hey, bro, do yourself a favor. Stay connected.

• 1:15:58Speaker 04

  Stay connected with your old buds. Just stay connected. Just do that because I didn't. And the connection is the cure.

• 1:16:04Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:04Speaker 04

  I stole that line from Josh Collins, buddy of mine. But um, that connection is definitely the cure.

• 1:16:12Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Did you find yourself isolating a lot during that period of time?

• 1:16:16Speaker 04

  Hell, yeah. Dude, I wasn't, I knew nobody, I knew, yeah. I, but anytime I was out and about, um, or, you know, on a, a training gig, I faked the hell out of it.

• 1:16:30Jack Murphy?

  Right, right.

• 1:16:32Speaker 04

  Fake the freaking hell out of it. Woo, get you some Blaze Arms, baby. You know, all the freaking Pat Mack shit. Um, just bloviating. That was all freaking theater, all of it.

• 1:16:42Jack Murphy?

  So tell, tell us about the second lease on life. What, what were, or the second, second lease on life? Uh, what, what was, what was that next lifetime, lifetime, life period that you went on to live?

• 1:16:54Speaker 04

  Dude, it's the one I'm living right now. Now, it, it, it, it, it's, um, I'll give you the Reader's Digest version. So, meeting Rebecca changed, changed, changed my life, right? So now I had meaning again, but I was working, I was busy again. So 2013, I found work, I found more, was able to regenerate. But I felt good. I had this renewed enthusiasm, you know, and, and I just felt good. I was motivated and I had the discipline to, to, to, to, uh, kind of nurture the motivation. Uh, and, um, and when, when I met Rebecca, I was, I, dude, there's so many corny lines I'm going to say. Uh, but one of them is, uh,

• 1:17:36Speaker 04

  I never, I never knew what it meant in, in my adult lifetime until I met Rebecca to, to truly fall in love with somebody. I never knew until I met her. Never knew it.

• 1:17:49Speaker 04

  Uh, and now that I have it, I like it. And it's, dude, we've been together almost 10 years. We haven't had a crossword. She's my best friend. I miss, she's at school right now. She's going to school full time, uh, for, to be a psychologist and, um, like, dude, I can't wait for you to come home so we can drink a glass of wine together and watch some TV. Um, but, um, worked, we, we, we both, we worked our asses off, man. But, uh, uh,

• 1:18:17Speaker 04

  Sweat equity, you know, with, with freedom through discipline. Yeah. With discipline comes freedom. So we both worked and worked and worked. So for 10 years, 10 years, I did four courses a month, traveling on a plane for most of them. 10 years. Brutal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. With two, with two big public in cases, shitty flight, shitty rental car, shitty hotel, shitty range. Get back on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, maintenance, Thursday, you plan your trip, Friday, you're back on a plane. 10 years, 10 years. And then what happens?

• 1:18:56Speaker 04

  The virus from China, China, China virus.

• 1:19:03Speaker 04

  So the lockdown happened. I refused to call it a pandemic. The lockdown happened. Uh, and that was, um, man, that was a gift. That was such a freaking absolute gift for me. Cause that allowed me to adjust my, my life. Right. And your business plan. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so I don't travel anymore to do work. Um, it's all local. Uh, generate a couple of new businesses. Like you mentioned at the beginning, I have a online coaching squad, the Pat Matt, keep the blaze live coaching squad on Patreon. About over 400 members on that's really that. Talk about fulfillment, you know, job satisfaction, because

• 1:19:44Speaker 04

  it's not, it's, it's not like a job. The folks, I have developed a relationship of, of, you know, with 400 some new people, several of, uh, of whom I've met in person, because we'll do biannual meetups. Um, it's a extremely eclectic group. The skillsets are all over the map. Uh, so I have that. I, um, you know, I had the fitness program and the combat strength training and I sell those resistance bands. And after, you know, coronation, everybody was doing a home gym. So I was like, dude, I could, I could just be the rubber band man.

• 1:20:25Speaker 04

  I was making a living selling rubber bands. I was like, damn. This shit, people want, because I developed these bands that are tubular instead of the flat ones.

• 1:20:33Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 1:20:35Speaker 04

  You know, so they just last long. They're so versatile.

• 1:20:39Speaker 05

  Where, where, if people wanted to buy some of those bands, where would they find them?

• 1:20:43Speaker 04

  Ah, just off, I, I don't have any in stock right now. But they're, they're off of my like link tree on my T Max Inc. Instagram or up my website, T Max Inc.

• 1:20:56Speaker 04

  But yeah, and then my buddy CJ and I have this podcast, University of Badassery. We do a bunch of mini vlogging and

• 1:21:08Speaker 04

  on my Pat Mc YouTube channel. Which is a lot of fun, you know, so I, I'm very busy because you gotta stay busy, right?

• 1:21:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:21:16Speaker 04

  You got to, I'm writing, I'm, I'm, I'm writing a kid's book. I am doing more drawings. I've opened my calendar up to doing private, one-on-one classes. I'm still doing the fitness, training, online training and programming. And and trying to stay fit as shit in the process, which, you know. Whew.

• 1:21:43Speaker 04

  It gets tougher, it gets tougher. There's no doubt of it. This shit don't get easier, you know?

• 1:21:46Speaker 05

  Now you get older, don't get easier.

• 1:21:47Speaker 04

  Is this? But you know what? You know what I have? I have this advantage. I have a, and, and I always want to tell them, my, so my fan base, my, my, my audience, right? So like half a million on Insta Shizzle and 50,000 on LinkedIn and you know, I don't know, that millions and millions of views on YouTube channel. They motivate me because they always ask, how, how do you stay motivated? It's like, bro, you motivate me.

• 1:22:17Speaker 04

  I'm doing this shit for you because I know you're looking forward to it. You're counting on me. I have to post this workout because you're counting on me.

• 1:22:25Speaker 04

  So I always have to thank my, my fanbase because I, I gotta, it's, it would be real hard to do it without them. Real hard.

• 1:22:34Speaker 05

  So, you know, that I, I think that anybody that, that came from, you know, the spec ops community would have something to teach people that, that hadn't been through that. But you really have outside of that, right? Outside of that special operations experience. You have some real life experience, some real times of overcoming adversity and what that means and continually doing it. And like being there, like we can, like you said, we all fake it at some point in time, right?

• 1:23:11Speaker 05

  We all fake it, but you've been about a, a, as deeply down as a human can be.

• 1:23:22Speaker 04

  And that close, that close to capitulation.

• 1:23:25Speaker 05

  And, and, and, and, you know, and, and you say, you know, you say two leases on life and it's, it, it feels like you've had at least three. Because the one with your son sounds like another one where.

• 1:23:36Speaker 04

  Well, that was part of it.

• 1:23:37Speaker 05

  Oh, that was part of it.

• 1:23:38Speaker 04

  That was part of the second one. Cause that was all, that was a lead in, you know?

• 1:23:42Speaker 05

  And, and it, to me, it's just such an inspiring and amazing story and somebody doesn't have to be a, you know, special operations wannabe. Uh, in order to, to find, you know, inspiration from you, because it's a very human story.

• 1:24:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. And, and you know what? You, you probably seen this about me. I don't pound my chest and talk special ops, special ops and Delta fucking uses stop blah, blah. I don't, I, I don't, I'm not one of these rest on your laurels, mamba jambas. I was a badass yesterday, but I'm a badass tomorrow. So I'm not going to talk a lot about that.

• 1:24:17Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:24:17Speaker 04

  You know, I, I mean, I mean, you know, if guys are interested, hell yeah. But that doesn't define me.

• 1:24:22Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:24:23Speaker 04

  What defines me is me right now, right here and what I'm going to do tomorrow. Which is get drunk. Can we talk about your pontilism a little bit? Oh, sure. Is it pointillism or pontillism? Yeah, pointillism, yeah. Pointillism, sorry. I have several, they're all, most, most of what I do are, um, I have a bird of prey series. So I'm bird, you know, bird guy. I don't have any right here. Ooh, I got one on the wall there. It's got a glass frame, but i- this is an example. This is one I did a few years back. So th- th- this is a military one, so not bird of prey. Uh, SF1, like before and after, you know, or then and now. But if I were able to get it close enough, you can see that this is all comprised of dots. I don't think the.

• 1:25:08Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, there it is. Yup. Yup, yup. So the whole thing is dots. You know, it's all, it's all for your dots. That's amazing. So with a, you know, with a point, uh, uh, 20, uh, point two five, uh, rapidograph drafting pen.

• 1:25:24Speaker 04

  But yeah, it's fun. Is that, is that sort of like a meditative thing, Pat, that like you're us in the zone? It is very, I have a bunch of, I am hobby heavy, hobby heavy, hobby heavy, and they're all therapeutic. Yeah. Bird watching, the gardening, the fishing, the drawing, the photography.

• 1:25:42Speaker 04

  Uh.

• 1:25:44Speaker 04

  Oh shit, it goes on.

• 1:25:47Speaker 04

  There's more. I do everything. Or and if I don't, I aspire. I want to do everything. I don't aspire to do everything. I want to do as much, as much as possible. I want to learn, you know, or learn to do things. Um, I think it's good to be interesting. You don't want your brain to become stagnant. You know, when you see something that's interesting and you say, that'd be cool to learn that. Well, go fucking learn it, man. You know, put one, just one foot, just one foot in front of the other and see what happens.

• 1:26:22Speaker 04

  You know, because a lot of times we'll say that shit, but we won't start.

• 1:26:26Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:26:26Speaker 04

  I need a start point. You don't have to commit. But if you, if you start.

• 1:26:31Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:26:32Speaker 04

  That'd be cool. That'd be cool. I would like to learn how to do that. What's the next step? Let me watch a YouTube video on this, which is as easy as that. It's as easy as, you know? And then, and then you could take it one step further.

• 1:26:46Speaker 04

  You know, if it appeals, but yeah, I like to do shit. I like to do.

• 1:26:51Speaker 04

  Things. I like to do the, I have to say this one, you know, the basic dude stuff.

• 1:26:57Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 1:27:00Speaker 05

  What, what do you, what were, where would you like to be? I mean, you're a young guy still. Where would you like to be in five or 10 years?

• 1:27:07Speaker 04

  Um, you know, I, I, I think I would like to be like, uh, retired, retired, but busy. But what I mean by busy is, um, doing something with my hands, plowing a field, building a dam. You know, doing something grandiose. I always thought it would be cool to build a castle, you know, to live by a river and use the river rock to build a castle. Um, I want to be. I want, I want to defy age. I want to be as fit as hell for as long as possible too. Because I know what it's like to not be fit. I know what it's like to hurt.

• 1:27:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:27:43Speaker 04

  And, um, and I think we take for granted.

• 1:27:48Speaker 04

  What feeling good feels like.

• 1:27:51Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:27:52Speaker 04

  Uh, how about this? I think we take for granted what not feeling like shit feels like.

• 1:27:58Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:27:59Speaker 04

  Because, uh, a lot of people. Don't know what feeling good feels like because they've never felt like shit. You know, they've through it for an extended period of time.

• 1:28:11Speaker 04

  But, um, I think, you know, um, I'm an outdoorsman. I want to spend more time. Just walking around, looking at stuff, taking photos. Um, fishing in streams that no white man has fished out of. You know, getting way up into the mountains and just ripping freaking lips with the smallest, you know, 22, size 22 fly and, and, um, uh, yeah, I, I, I just that kind of thing, but I, I still want to be busy. You know, people say, yeah, when I retire, it's going to be a sandy beach and cigar and that kind of thing. Screw that, bro. I call that a two day vacation.

• 1:28:49Speaker 05

  Right, right.

• 1:28:50Speaker 04

  And then after that, I'm, I'm like, dude, I have to do something. I gotta, I gotta stay busy. You know, I could, I, I, I, I've thrown a lot around a lot of ideas. When I retire, I might go back to work. I might go back to school. I thought it'd be cool to get a teaching degree.

• 1:29:05Speaker 05

  You'd be good at that.

• 1:29:06Speaker 04

  I don't need to teach full time.

• 1:29:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:29:07Speaker 04

  Just put me on as a substitute teacher.

• 1:29:09Speaker 05

  Put me in, coach.

• 1:29:10Speaker 04

  Yeah. That's awesome. Make some shit interesting. I can make a boring subject interesting.

• 1:29:16Speaker 05

  I look, I would take geography from you.

• 1:29:19Speaker 04

  I, I, I could see Pat Mack, US history teacher. I, I think, I think that would happen. I think that's one of the things I want to do. So I have a target demographic with a lot of, the stuff that I'm doing and it's younger people.

• 1:29:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:29:31Speaker 04

  I, I, I want to have a positive influence on younger people, you know, kids to teenagers.

• 1:29:38Speaker 04

  Because, yeah, they need it. They need it right now.

• 1:29:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:29:41Speaker 04

  They need. That's cool, man. Do, do we have any questions for Pat?

• 1:29:44Speaker 05

  We've got quite a few. So, um,

• 1:29:46Speaker 04

  Oh shit. Questions, questions from the viewers.

• 1:29:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Uh, I'm going to pour a little bit myself. Uh, so in your face, uh, uh, thank you very much. Um, when are, uh, Pat Mack, Larry Vickers, Paul Howe and Kyle Lamb going to do the most epic podcast ever together?

• 1:30:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, that'd be a hard one to coordinate, huh? All those guys are busy as shit, man. I mean, and you know what? They're all great. I know those guys and man, they're all really, really, people don't pay them enough credit, I don't think. Or here, no, let me back up. People in my industry, my community don't pay them enough credit. I mean, they have paved the way, you know, Larry and Paul and Kyle, they have paved the way for so much shit in the gun industry and the kid industry. They paved the way for me because they started before me doing this. Um, I owe them a debt of gratitude, um, not for what they've done in the military, but how they've succeeded outside of the military.

• 1:30:43Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:30:44Speaker 04

  These guys are badass, bro.

• 1:30:46Speaker 05

  Paul Harper, thank you very much. What lessons for future urban conflict should Taiwan be learning from detachment A in Berlin?

• 1:30:55Speaker 04

  Interesting question. Yeah, whoa, this is thought provoking. Say it again, because you were a little bit muffled.

• 1:31:01Speaker 05

  Sorry about that. What lessons for future urban conflict should Taiwan be learning from dead A in Berlin?

• 1:31:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, should who be learning?

• 1:31:12Speaker 05

  Taiwan.

• 1:31:14Speaker 04

  Taiwan, right, right, right. Well, the one, this, this one always gets my goat is, um, you can't rely on technology. It's gonna shit the bed. That's a big one. It's even for urban ops, all that shit. You can't rely on technology. You gotta go old school. You gotta know cardinal directions. You gotta know how to freaking read shit. You gotta know shadows. You gotta know street craft. You gotta know all that crap, you know? You gotta know old school communication. You gotta know dead drop sites, signal sites, how to do a PM. Because we suck at that now, too. Personal meat, you know? We suck at communication skills. Enter face to face communication skills. Get back to the old school shit. I'm right on this, by the way. I guarantee you, it's gonna happen.

• 1:31:59Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:32:00Speaker 05

  Anya, thanks again. Hey, Pat, I have, oh, this is something we could talk about also. I've, I've got rheumatoid arthritis and got med boarded. I'm trying to stay fit, but it's a challenge. How would you adapt if you were me? And you know, you can kind of talk-

• 1:32:16Speaker 04

  Dude, I've got something way worse than fucking rheumatoid arthritis, man. I got this stupid gay disease called polymyalgia rheumatica. So I'm almost at two years right now.

• 1:32:27Speaker 04

  Bro, I, I empathize. Who is this? What's his name?

• 1:32:31Speaker 05

  Anya Fatj, Anya Face.

• 1:32:32Speaker 04

  Anya? Anya, I, I empathize with you so, I mean,

• 1:32:39Speaker 04

  wait, what was that name? Was that a pseudonym?

• 1:32:41Speaker 05

  I think so, yeah, Anya Face.

• 1:32:43Speaker 04

  All right, right, yeah. All right. Anyway, I wish I could really address him, because it would be more personal. But I empathize.

• 1:32:51Speaker 04

  Because chronic pain sucks bad and I had to get to a point, oh man, this was bad. It was really bad where I could no longer rely on motivation because I have no enthusiasm, no motivation. So I had to rely on discipline, on discipline. I had to rely on my routine, my daily planner. I live off of white, uh, whiteboards. I got a year there in my laundry room. I have the next couple of weeks and on my refrigerator, I have what's going on tomorrow. Every night, every night, right now, when I get off of this, I'm going to go down and write my workout on that board. So that first thing in the morning that I see, because motion is lotion, mobility is survivability. So your body's telling you, don't work out. Your brain,

• 1:33:35Speaker 04

  I mean, your brain is telling your body, don't work out, don't do it. Sit on that recliner. Because that shit hurts. It hurts, man. I had no, you know, you, you, you see these commercials and shit, I'm like, whatever, bunch of pussies. Dude, that shit hurts so bad. You're constantly fiddling with hands and wrists, your shoulder, well, with the PMR, it's shoulders, hips, joints, muscles, it's jawline, it's back of the head, it's arches of the feet. It's everything. It's everything. Um, you deal with it the best you freaking can. Here's the thing though, I wish I had his name because I want to talk to him. Um, is give it a name and give it a bad place to

• 1:34:18Speaker 04

  live. Give it, let it live in a shithole. Workout, you know, when it tells you not to, eat healthy when it tells you, because you have, you probably have a lack of appetite because you might be taking like prednisone or something. Nope. Fuck that. Eat healthy. It's telling you not to. It's telling you, you know, eat stuffed crust pizza. Yeah. Tell it fuck you. Give it a name. I called mine the demon. I'm at almost two years tonight. Now I'm beating this thing. I'm beating it. Oh, and that's the other thing. I went off all prescription meds. Oh, here's another thing, dude. I wish I had his name. Once again, uh, infrared sauna.

• 1:34:57Speaker 04

  Magic for this shit. Magic infrared sauna. I bought one for my garage. Guarantee you dude, in your town somewhere, there's a salt spot with infrared sauna. Go sit in one, make it hot as shit because infrared sauna doesn't heat the air around you, heat your body. They say 130.

• 1:35:14Speaker 05

  Those are the personal ones that you sit in, like that are around you, right? Not like a big room.

• 1:35:21Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:35:21Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:35:22Speaker 04

  Yep. Yep. So that, that, that's my advice right now on that.

• 1:35:28Speaker 05

  Can you, you know, you said motivation for, you know, you're, you don't use motivation, use discipline. Can you really quickly kind of tell us what the difference is for you?

• 1:35:39Speaker 04

  I'm getting back to being motivated now because I'm beating this thing. So look out world. Because in the past year and a half, two years, once again, faking it, any posts that you've seen of me doing workouts and stuff, totally fake. Those are my best reps. If you, if you go back in my archives and you see the workouts I'm doing, you, you'll think, oh yeah, Pat makes some shape. I mean, he's not a shape, good a shape he was two years ago. That's because of this shit. And what you were, because I still had to post freaking workouts for my fan base and they were getting me motivated. Uh, but they were seeing my best freaking reps and those reps for the most part sucked. They sucked, but now you're going to see it. You're seeing a difference already past couple of weeks.

• 1:36:23Speaker 04

  The people who really have noticed, but, but, um, uh, yeah, I had to rely on, uh, discipline. So my whiteboard planning, um, uh, soul searching, just, you know, I, cause so many times I'm drawn to the recliner and so many times I say, let me just sleep for half an hour. And so many times I would say, nope, I'm not. So then I would start the process because I know I have to work out. I have to. If I want to move for the rest of the day. Yeah. And every, every ounce of my being is saying, don't do it. Don't do it. So you have to dress the part, number one. So I have to put my Batman outfit on. And for me, it was like a headband and, you know, just whatever. Put the

• 1:37:07Speaker 04

  headband on, put the watch cap on. It's your costume. You show up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you show up. You gotta show up. Um, it would take me like half an hour to an hour to warm up.

• 1:37:23Speaker 05

  And then that's it's incredible that um sport Clinton, thank you very much. A friend and former guest of ours. Pat Mack, looking forward to this one. Jack and Dave, you guys have been killing it. Keep it up. Well, thanks. Um, we were killing it because of people like that. Like if we're just Jack and I, nobody would fucking watch.

• 1:37:44Jack Murphy?

  Jack and Dave getting drunk every Friday.

• 1:37:49Speaker 05

  Jameson Price, thank you very much. Pat, let's take off the gloves and tell all. Do um unit badass dudes operate within the continental US and drive uh lead into uh and drive lead into a whole terrorists?

• 1:38:07Speaker 04

  Do they? Well, yeah, they do.

• 1:38:09Speaker 05

  No, no, no. But before you say, yeah, they do. I want to make sure you get the whole question. Do they operate within the continental US and drive lead into a whole terrorists?

• 1:38:18Speaker 04

  Oh, oh, oh, in the continental US. No, no, no.

• 1:38:23Speaker 05

  Staff Sergeant Omen, thank you very much. Where did you think? Where do you think you received the best tradecraft training while you were prepping for assignment in Berlin or during OTC or somewhere else?

• 1:38:39Speaker 04

  I would say, yeah, uh, Berlin, they were the masters at it, you know? So I learned from those guys. And I remember there was one guy, I won't say his full name, but Art. Art carried me around the city for a few days and uh he would even tell me how to walk.

• 1:38:56Speaker 04

  You know?

• 1:38:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:38:57Speaker 04

  And he brought me to secondhand stores. He says, you can't wear all that American shit, bro. You need to wear these stupid German clothes.

• 1:39:04Jack Murphy?

  Really tight pants?

• 1:39:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, just, yeah, just, you know, like 20 years behind.

• 1:39:09Jack Murphy?

  And the fanny pack.

• 1:39:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:39:11Speaker 05

  Sprockets.

• 1:39:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:39:13Speaker 05

  Now is the time on sprockets when we die.

• 1:39:14Speaker 04

  No, definitely, definitely in Berlin.

• 1:39:18Speaker 05

  Uh, Jackson, thank you very much. Uh, is there a cultural difference between squadrons?

• 1:39:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, it it's funny. Um, there, there is, but I don't think it's as, as pronounced as the guys there think it is. I always tell, yeah, because there still is. And it's still, it's, it's still the same banter. Cause I know current unit guys now and they'll talk about it. And I go, guys, that's all fake news, man. It's freaking fake. It's stupid. And I know how this materialized. I was there when it materialized. And it's fake. But yeah, there, there, there is, but I think it's more up here.

• 1:39:58Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:39:59Speaker 04

  It's not.

• 1:39:59Speaker 05

  It's, it's more like an image thing than an actual functional thing.

• 1:40:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, because I know dudes right now who are in A, B, C, D squadron. And they're all the same dude. All the same.

• 1:40:13Speaker 05

  Um, Joe's got you. Thank you very much. Uh, was free flow CQB a thing when you got to the unit? Was that something the British SAS created and the unit improved upon?

• 1:40:25Speaker 04

  Yep, that's, uh, yes, and yes. Hundred percent.

• 1:40:29Speaker 05

  Uh, Jackson, thank you very much. What was the hardest part of selection for you? And what would you have done differently if you had to do it again?

• 1:40:39Speaker 04

  Woo.

• 1:40:43Speaker 04

  Well, this is for you. This is gonna sound weird. The hardest part for me was at the end, after stress was the board.

• 1:40:52Speaker 04

  That was the hardest part for me. I, I wish it would just went away. I remember sitting in the board thinking, man, I'd rather do a 40 mile or at night right now than this. Um, that was the hardest part. What would I do differently?

• 1:41:08Speaker 04

  Um, I wouldn't dig my, I dug myself into a hole.

• 1:41:14Speaker 04

  You know, and, and it was because I was, I was telling the truth.

• 1:41:20Speaker 04

  But I was using, um, there was, there was a question guys were ans- asking me and, um, it just, it was so fucking stupid, man. Um,

• 1:41:34Speaker 04

  I was using some military cover

• 1:41:37Speaker 04

  to answer a question about a previous unit.

• 1:41:41Speaker 05

  Oh, I see.

• 1:41:41Speaker 04

  And they know the truth.

• 1:41:42Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:41:44Speaker 04

  They're not, I mean, they, they were there probably, but I was kinda naive and I thought to myself, well, maybe I shouldn't talk about it even to these dudes.

• 1:41:54Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:41:55Speaker 04

  Um, and I stuck with it. They pressed me and pressed me and put, and so now that they're pressing me, I think they just wanna see, am I gonna stick with, am I gonna stay in my circle?

• 1:42:05Speaker 05

  Right, your circle, yeah.

• 1:42:06Speaker 04

  Am I gonna stay in my circle?

• 1:42:08Speaker 05

  Right, right.

• 1:42:09Speaker 04

  Cause they pressed me and pressed me and pressed me on and I stuck in my circle. Yep.

• 1:42:15Speaker 05

  They, they-

• 1:42:15Speaker 04

  I just should've, I just should've came out and said, oh, yeah, yeah, that's what I was doing. You guys know all about that.

• 1:42:19Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:42:20Speaker 04

  And then it would've been a 20 minute board instead of an hour and 20.

• 1:42:23Speaker 05

  Right, right.

• 1:42:24Jack Murphy?

  So they, they, the, the board asked you about like PSSD and you gave them the cover story of like, oh, we're an MP unit that does training for the legs and-

• 1:42:32Speaker 04

  Bingo.

• 1:42:33Speaker 05

  And then, and then once you had that out there, then you can't, you can't let your circle go. You can't let-

• 1:42:38Speaker 04

  There was no taking backsies at that.

• 1:42:39Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You gotta stick to your guns.

• 1:42:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:42:42Jack Murphy?

  Stick to your guns.

• 1:42:43Speaker 05

  They're like, they're probably like, like rubbing their hands like, oh, really?

• 1:42:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, dude.

• 1:42:48Jack Murphy?

  Well, at least you know, at least you know Pat's not an opsec violator.

• 1:42:51Speaker 05

  They turned it into a, they turned it into a SER session.

• 1:42:55Speaker 04

  Yeah. Damn. So that, that was easy one. That was easy. Yep. Phew.

• 1:43:00Speaker 05

  Um, Jackson, thanks again. Oh, a little bit of, a little bit of salt, maybe. Uh, how did the unit view DevGru and HRT?

• 1:43:09Jack Murphy?

  Spicy, little spicy.

• 1:43:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, i- i- i- i- um, well, the unit viewed him very well. There you go. How about that? I just stayed out of that one.

• 1:43:22Jack Murphy?

  That was really positive.

• 1:43:23Speaker 04

  The unit.

• 1:43:23Jack Murphy?

  I like that positive, positive upbeat attitude.

• 1:43:27Speaker 05

  See, you're, you're good at these board questions now.

• 1:43:33Speaker 04

  Dude, I got some real, I got some real good buddies at DevGuru. And even, you know, out here, you know, out in this world, some retired guys that I, that I really love. So same cut of the cloth dudes, bro. HRT, I don't know many of them. I don't know many of them. Yep. But that was good. That was a good question and I'm sticking with my answer.

• 1:43:54Speaker 05

  That was a good answer too. Definitely learned from that board. Alejandro, thank you very much. Pat, when you were there, did you grab a chunk of the wall? My folks still have pics of my sister and I chiseling off pieces. We were living in Ramstein, Ramstein in West Germany and happened to be visiting Berlin, staying at Tempelhof Air Force Base.

• 1:44:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, I, I chiseled out tons of it and I would make people, um, these little plaques with, uh, and I would, you know, like epoxy them on to this plaque and, and clear coat them on. And within that too, I had some of the original, this is a fun German word to say, some of the original Stakelgrad, which is a barbed wire. So it was all rusty, you know, but once it's clear coated, it's cool as shit. But yes, absolutely. A hundred percent.

• 1:44:43Speaker 05

  That's very cool. And I, every time I look, see Ramstein, I think du hass.

• 1:44:48Speaker 04

  Um, yep.

• 1:44:51Speaker 05

  Once again, from, uh, Anya, uh, thanks. Uh, hey, Pat, what do we have to get, uh, to do to get a video of you working out with Rudy Reyes?

• 1:45:03Speaker 04

  Uh, I, I don't know. That, that, that ain't gonna happen. I, I, I should see Rudy here next month. I'm going to an event and he should be there. I think, I think he'll be there. But no, that ain't gonna happen. We're, we're two different styles of stuff, you know?

• 1:45:20Speaker 05

  Ahmed Akteb, uh, thank you very much. Thank you for their service, brother. Can you please comment on some contemporary issues? Recruitment problems, counterterrorism, the future, the festering domestic anti-Americanism. Keep on, keep on.

• 1:45:34Jack Murphy?

  That's a lot, that's a lot there, buddy. That's a lot. I mean, it's, it's Pat supposed to solve America and international politics.

• 1:45:40Speaker 04

  What am I running for, uh, office or some shit? I run for office here.

• 1:45:44Speaker 05

  You don't want to announce right now? You can announce right now if you've got a, if you've got political.

• 1:45:48Jack Murphy?

  If you've got a platform.

• 1:45:49Speaker 04

  I don't have the stomach for it. I hate politics and I hate politicians. I despise them on both sides. Yep. But, um, yeah, I didn't.

• 1:46:01Speaker 04

  Most of those questions I can't remember.

• 1:46:02Speaker 05

  Well, we can talk, maybe not general recruitment problems. How, how do you see like recruitment in like the special ops community right now? Your friends that are in there, is it still healthy? Is it, are they having issues? It's still healthy?

• 1:46:17Speaker 04

  Still healthy there. Yep. The military though, their numbers are down.

• 1:46:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:46:21Speaker 04

  I mean, what 75% of today's youth is unfit to be in the military?

• 1:46:29Speaker 04

  75%.

• 1:46:34Speaker 04

  There you go.

• 1:46:36Speaker 04

  Recruitment.

• 1:46:37Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:46:52Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant. So I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:47:03Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:47:08Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:47:14Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:47:34Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:48:01Speaker 02

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:48:30Speaker 05

  Kenneth Jones, thank you very much for the donation. Steve Court, right? Thank you. I found Pat at a vital crossroad in my life. I will forever be

• 1:48:39Speaker 04

  I know Steve.

• 1:48:41Speaker 05

  I will forever be grateful for his advice and what it has done to recourse my life.

• 1:48:47Speaker 04

  Right on. Yeah. Yeah, he's a good dude. I've been fishing with Steve.

• 1:48:51Speaker 05

  Well, I

• 1:48:53Speaker 04

  He's a part of that Keep the Blaze Live coaching squad.

• 1:48:56Speaker 05

  Yeah. For so for people who might be like looking for something outside like a normal like, you know, from somebody who's really been there. And I don't mean there by special last been there and and like has faked it till they made it. Can you tell us again where your code is on Patreon?

• 1:49:15Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:49:16Speaker 05

  And the name

• 1:49:18Speaker 04

  It's called the Pat Mac Keep the Blaze Alive Coaching Squad.

• 1:49:22Speaker 05

  Check that out. Alejandro, thank you. Being a fellow metalhead, what bands are you really digging right now? Are there any up and coming ones that you think people should give a listen to?

• 1:49:34Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah, let me think about this. Oh, great, dude. Thank you for that. So I just started, because they're coming out with new album Born of Osiris. I'm going to go obscure here. I'm not going to go, you know, another one that I dig is Plague Years. I hope they do. I hope they, I hope they do. So I hope they get some traction, man. I just, they're really, really dark and sludgy, you know, sludgy and dark. Yep. Because I don't like it. I don't like it super fast and just nonstop double bass. I like, you know, sludgy and dark and, you know, like cobblestone

• 1:50:13Speaker 04

  streets and rusty metal and like a dong. If I had a metal band, I'd have a big freak. I'd have an anvil in my metal. Bats on the Belfry. Yeah, right. Let me see. Plague Years. I said, uh,

• 1:50:32Speaker 04

  Uh, I hmm. Dude, you put me on the spot. I wish I could have studied that one, you know? Cause I would have had a laundry list, but nah.

• 1:50:41Speaker 05

  I'll tell you what, when you get a chance, if you want, like the, the comments below the video, you know, sometime in the next couple of days, if you want to leave that list, um, I'm sure, I'm sure we have a lot of people above that. Um, can you share? Uh, thank you, Leon Jones. Can you share your workout playlist? Basic dude stuff?

• 1:51:01Speaker 04

  That's a motherfucker. The next time somebody asks me that, I swear to God, I'm gonna jump right through this phone.

• 1:51:09Speaker 04

  I put it on every one of my posts for the past, you know what I built that playlist? 2020 during coronation. I built that because everybody wanted me to build a playlist. So you know what I do? Every post, every single post, I put it in there. You know why people don't see it? Cause they don't tap on dot, dot, dot more. So you Instagrammers, dot, dot, dot more. That's where the notes are. Dot, dot, dot more. So no, I'm not going to share it right here.

• 1:51:39Speaker 05

  You, you do know that you're gonna get about a hundred more requests for this now, like throughout.

• 1:51:44Speaker 04

  That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because now they're getting the goat. They want to poke the bear.

• 1:51:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly. People have found that.

• 1:51:50Speaker 04

  I'm gonna tell them then. I'm gonna tell them. So it's Metal Mac Attack Spotify playlist.

• 1:51:57Speaker 05

  Metal Mac Attack. Uh, and last question, I believe, uh, unless we have anything new. Oh, we do have one more. Okay. So two more. Uh, Jackson, thank you. Top five high-speed LEO guys or units you've trained with?

• 1:52:12Speaker 04

  Whoa. Uh, let me see. Let me think about this. Uh, I think I do.

• 1:52:20Speaker 04

  Wow, that damn man. Oh shit, you put me on the spot because.

• 1:52:25Speaker 04

  See, there's a lot of them. I don't even remember the county. So I, I, I work with these guys in, uh, Wisconsin and I, I believe it's Dane County, you know, Sheriff's Department. Dude, they were always freaking badass, um, really good shooters and fit dudes and just fun as hell. Um. Woo. Oh, my favorite, my favorite L E Os are fed are, um, the, um, Bortak.

• 1:52:50Speaker 04

  Bortak, uh, Border Patrol guys. Yeah. Yeah. My favorite. Yep. Um, dig the, uh, Secret Service cat team. I know that's, they're still L E Os, but it's federal. Yeah. Um, because I worked with them a bunch.

• 1:53:05Speaker 04

  Ooh, see here. Man, there's so many of them in Texas, you know, I, let's just say Texas in general. Because there's so many, whether you're going to Houston, Austin, Dallas, I mean, uh, wherever it is, there's just tons of them, tons of teams, you know?

• 1:53:23Speaker 04

  North Carolina's got a bunch. I work with them here. Not yet. I, that one there, I would need to, I would need time for that one too. Sorry, but I, but I did. Mention a couple.

• 1:53:33Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, wasn't it the Bortak guys who, who got out in Uvalde? Uh, maybe eventually.

• 1:53:42Speaker 04

  Eventually. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

• 1:53:45Speaker 05

  Yeah. The ones who actually, yeah. Uh, and then I think last question here, um, is from Jameson Price. Thank you very much. Pat, is it true that the unit, um, I'm not gonna, uh, is organized in a way where operators can be redesigned? For instance, for instance, as a contractor. G S, federal employee, military, civilian, or as mission dictates, are you able to elaborate?

• 1:54:15Speaker 05

  I, that's probably like more into the weeds of.

• 1:54:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, that, that's, that is definitely in the weeds right there. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. I appreciate the question, but yeah, that's in the weeds and man.

• 1:54:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, that, that.

• 1:54:29Speaker 04

  How about, how about this? How about this? To some degree. How about that?

• 1:54:32Speaker 05

  Fair enough. Yeah.

• 1:54:34Speaker 04

  And I apologize to dude for that, but yeah, the brevity.

• 1:54:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, um, and, and that's, that's it. Do we have any questions for Patreon?

• 1:54:44Jack Murphy?

  Uh, I don't think, I don't think we did. Did, did we have one, we have one D? Uh, can you pull it up real quick?

• 1:54:52Jack Murphy?

  So, uh, uh, I don't have it on mine either. Sorry, Pat, we're not prepared.

• 1:54:58Speaker 04

  All right, no worries.

• 1:54:59Jack Murphy?

  Um,

• 1:55:02Jack Murphy?

  so, one more time, the, uh, the website or the Patreon to find it, it's Pat Matt Keep the Blades Alive. They find your coaching service there.

• 1:55:10Speaker 04

  Yep, Coaching Squad.

• 1:55:11Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, Coaching Squad.

• 1:55:12Speaker 05

  Links will be down in the description.

• 1:55:14Jack Murphy?

  Um, I, can you get on the, on the Patreon?

• 1:55:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:55:17Jack Murphy?

  We found a question.

• 1:55:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:55:18Jack Murphy?

  I'm sorry, I don't have it up here.

• 1:55:20Speaker 04

  And it's off of my link tree on my Instagram too. Everything's on, you know, on my Instagram, my, uh, my, uh, T-Maxx.

• 1:55:26Jack Murphy?

  Okay.

• 1:55:26Speaker 04

  T-M-A-C-S-I-N-C. T-M-A-C-S-I-N-C.

• 1:55:29Jack Murphy?

  Cool, man. Um, and, uh, this Friday, we're gonna have, uh, regular episode. We'll be back. We have, uh, Ken coming on, who was a psychologist that worked for the US government, including some of the three-letter agencies, doing profiles on like foreign world leaders and stuff like that. So, he's gonna be a fun interview coming up Friday.

• 1:55:49Speaker 05

  I'm on, I don't know how to find it though, man. I don't get on that.

• 1:55:53Jack Murphy?

  We have a catastrophe going on here.

• 1:55:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, we, uh,

• 1:55:58Speaker 05

  couple of

• 1:56:01Speaker 05

  grunts.

• 1:56:01Jack Murphy?

  Uh, okay.

• 1:56:04Jack Murphy?

  I, I, I don't see any questions here.

• 1:56:07Speaker 04

  Who?

• 1:56:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:56:09Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:10Speaker 05

  Did you find a D? All right.

• 1:56:12Jack Murphy?

  Oh, wait, there, one guy's saying, okay, I think I see it. Despite, uh, the unit being, and other tier one units being flushed with money and support, mental health specifically, suicides continues to be a problem. Why? I mean, I think we kind of mentioned a lot of this, like, throughout the entire interview, but any closing thoughts on, like, perhaps why suicide is i- i- an issue even in, like, well-supported special ops units?

• 1:56:35Speaker 04

  Remember what I said? Um,

• 1:56:39Speaker 04

  That guys who are having issues.

• 1:56:41Jack Murphy?

  Hide it.

• 1:56:41Speaker 04

  If they're, if they're, if they're crying for help, they probably don't. They're hiding it and you have to assume. I think we have to assume more. You know, because I just in the past, oof. In the past two months, I've lost two.

• 1:56:56Jack Murphy?

  Oh, man, I'm sorry.

• 1:56:57Speaker 04

  Two buds, yep. Um, and, and, and, and, and it's mind blowing. It's like, no, no, no, not this guy. There's no way. There's no way. You know, there's no way. There's no way.

• 1:57:12Speaker 04

  Uh, so yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't know, but I think we have to assume and not everybody, man. You know what? It's, it's overdone. A lot of it's overdone. Man, yo, we got mental issues, PTSD. A lot of that's over freaking done. A lot of it is. Does it exist? Hell yeah. It's a real thing. But more, more so, it's not, it's not that. It's that separation. You know, it's that.

• 1:57:38Jack Murphy?

  Separated from the culture. Yeah.

• 1:57:40Speaker 04

  Yes, it's leaving something where you, that you, where you had true passion, true love. You know, you had a relationship with people that is intimate on so many different levels. And I'm not talking freaking, you know, sex. I'm talking just very intimate relationship with other human beings. And then you lose that.

• 1:58:01Speaker 04

  And then, you know, yeah, you start spiraling, spiraling.

• 1:58:05Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Pat, thank you so much for taking some time of your Tuesday evening. I mean, I think you told us, you said earlier, this was the second podcast you did today. So man, I appreciate, I appreciate you going, uh, you know, tuning in and, and doing this with us tonight. And, you know, we'd wanted to have you on for a long time. So, I mean, it's awesome to finally do it. If there's anything we can do, hit us up anytime, please. Um, and final thoughts, anything I failed to cover at all that you, that you want to throw out there?

• 1:58:33Speaker 04

  No, no, no. I want to thank you guys because I do a lot of podcasts. You guys are great hosts and, um, just you, you made me feel very welcome. And your questions were great too. So, yeah, great. Cause it takes, cause some guys don't know how to do this shit.

• 1:58:46Jack Murphy?

  Oh, and we want it to be fun too. We want you to have a good time. Yep. Thank you, everybody who tuned in to watch this. Again, thanks, Pat, and we will see all you guys.

• 1:58:54Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:59:09Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:59:20Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:59:25Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:59:31Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:59:51Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, Study Mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 2:00:18Speaker 09

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• 2:00:48Jack Murphy?

  Guys, on Friday.

• 2:00:56Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Ushkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 2:01:10Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic. In a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 2:01:21Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 2:01:27Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 2:01:32Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more. Because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 2:01:52Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down rather than giving teens the answer. Study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 2:02:20Speaker 09

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• 2:03:00Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 2:03:14Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 2:03:25Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 2:03:30Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 2:03:36Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 2:03:56Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 2:04:24Speaker 09

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• 2:05:00Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 2:05:14Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic. In a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 2:05:25Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 2:05:31Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 2:05:36Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more. Because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 2:05:56Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 2:06:24Speaker 02

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:07:00Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 2:07:15Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 2:07:26Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 2:07:31Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 2:07:37Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more. Because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 2:07:57Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 2:08:25Speaker 09

  Cash Flow Crunch on deck. Small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:09:02Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Ushkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 2:09:16Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 2:09:27Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 2:09:32Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 2:09:38Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 2:09:58Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down rather than giving teens the answer. Study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 2:10:26Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:11:05Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 2:11:20Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 2:11:30Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 2:11:36Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 2:11:42Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 2:12:01Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down rather than giving teens the answer. Study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 2:12:29Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:12:59Speaker 10

  She's been thinking about this sleepover all week, but I think about her food allergies all the time. Fortunately, her doctor prescribed Zolair, omalizumab. It's proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens.

• 2:13:12Speaker 11

  Zolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people one year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Zolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Zolair. Zolair may cause a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Zolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Zolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see zolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Zolair. This is an advertisement for Zolair,

• 2:13:56Speaker 11

  paid for by Genentech and Novartis.

• 2:13:58Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 2:14:26Speaker 02

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of 5-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.