How To Not Ruin A First Impression, Think Like A Magician & Captivate an Audience | Alex Ramon

🚀 Main Street Over Wall Street is where the real deals get done. Join top investors, founders, and operators for three days of powerful connection, sharp strategy, and big opportunities — live in Austin, Nov 2–4. https://contrarianthinking.biz/msows-bigdeal Record your first video with Riverside - https://creators.riverside.fm/Codie - and use code CODIE for 15% off an individual plan. In this episode of the Big Deal Podcast, Codie interviews magician Alex Ramon, exploring the intersection of magic, psychology, and communication. They discuss how to read body language, the importance of first impressions, and techniques for engaging an audience. Alex shares insights on projecting confidence, the art of suggestion, and the significance of listening to your audience. The convo also delves into the secrets of magic and the role of hypnotism in performance. They draw parallels between the art of magic and business practices, emphasizing that honesty does not always equate to full transparency. Alex highlights the significance of clarity in goals and the continuous journey of learning and growth in both personal and professional realms. Alex also bought a business by learning from Codie. It was a vertical integration in the entertainment industry, sharing personal experiences and insights on financial management. The discussion transitions into negotiation strategies, emphasizing the significance of reframing objections during negotiations. YOU WON'T WANT TO MISS IT. Want help scaling your business to $1M in monthly revenue? ⁠Click here⁠ to connect with my consulting team. Want to learn more about Alex? Website - www.alexramonmagic.com YT - www.youtube.com/alexramonmagic IG- @alexramon IG Business - @innovative.imprints Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Art of Seduction and Magic 01:08 The Psychology of Lying and Body Language 04:34 Reading People: The Magician's Skill 08:11 Understanding Magic: The Importance of Presentation 10:30 First Impressions: Capturing Attention 12:49 Projecting Confidence: The Role of Competence 15:33 Body Language: Engaging Effectively 19:13 Controlling Behavior: The Art of Suggestion 21:06 Being Heard: Techniques for Effective Communication 25:24 Listening to Your Audience: The Key to Success 28:29 Becoming Articulate: The Path to Better Communication 32:22 Hypnotism: The Connection to Magic 34:14 The Secrets of Magic: Why They Matter 34:44 The Illusion of Transparency 41:07 Navigating Audience Engagement 56:06 Lessons from Failure and Resilience 01:02:14 The Business of Show Business 01:10:17 Business Acquisitions and Vertical Integration 01:18:31 Negotiation Strategies and Reframing 01:29:24 Embracing Challenges and Personal Growth MORE FROM BIGDEAL: 🎥 ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ 📸 ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠ 📽️ ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠ MORE FROM CODIE SANCHEZ: 🎥 ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ 📸 ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠ 📽️ ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠ OTHER THINGS WE DO: 🫂 ⁠⁠Our community⁠⁠ 📰 ⁠⁠Free newsletter⁠⁠ 🏦 ⁠⁠Biz buying course⁠⁠ 🏠 ⁠⁠Resibrands⁠⁠ 💰 ⁠⁠CT Capital⁠⁠ 🏙️ ⁠⁠Main St Hold Co⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Codie Sanchez?

  Hi and welcome back to the Big Deal Podcast. I'm Codie Sanchez and this is for those of you who don't want to just be rich but free and are willing to do what it takes to get there. Today, we have the man who helped create one of the most viral moments ever for the one and only, the Taylor Swift. We have the man who also was a Ringling Brothers and Barnum Bailey Circus Ringmaster, also toured with Disney, one of the most toured magicians out there, actually put himself inside of a box of freezing cold water with locks and escaped it. Why am I bringing somebody like this to the podcast? Because if you have ever wondered how to become more seductive, how to get people to listen to you, how do you get respected, how do you push back

• 0:44Codie Sanchez?

  when somebody doesn't listen to your boundaries, how do you present and create magic in the way that you show up in the world, this is the man to listen to. Today, we are going to break down questions like, are you actually turning people off before you even say a word? Without further ado, let's get into this episode with Alex Ramon.

• 1:08Codie Sanchez?

  So in some ways, you lie for a living doing magic tricks. Can you also tell if somebody is lying to you?

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Well, the short answer is yes and no. You can't really determine with 100% accuracy that someone's actually lying, but there's definitely ways to kind of investigate, kind of to analyze their body language, their posture, their intonation. And as a magician, I'm doing experiments every day, right? I'm going up to people. And the interesting thing that magicians can do is I can force something on you, whether it's a free choice or a question where I already know the answer, and then determine if you're lying or telling the truth based off of your reaction. So here's a simple example. Say I know what your card

• 2:01Speaker 01

  is, and I say, is this your card? And they go, no. Well, I already know because I use different techniques. And now that's a tell. So when I, if I approach them again, I know if they're lying or not. Does that make sense?

• 2:14Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  It's that I already know the answer.

• 2:16Codie Sanchez?

  Yep.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  And then I can prompt them to respond. And based off the response, I can kind of analyze how they lie.

• 2:24Codie Sanchez?

  How can you tell typically if somebody is lying to you or not? Like, are there, are there things that you notice with their face?

• 2:32Speaker 01

  The most obvious one, and people probably have seen this and heard about it, is the eye flutters.

• 2:37Codie Sanchez?

  Hmm, like that?

• 2:39Speaker 01

  Eye flutters, a blink on a response. So if I ask you a question, and like, no matter what, you say no, okay? No matter what I ask you, you say no. Understand?

• 2:46Codie Sanchez?

  Yes. Oh, no.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. See how easy that was? Is that automatically something so simple like that? Because magic is a reflex. It's a reflex. It's not something that you're thinking about. You're in a conversation right now. This is very low key, we're just communicating. And I just prompted you to lie, but you couldn't. So it's unnatural, right? So now when I ask you another question, it's like,

• 3:14Speaker 01

  is this a cactus?

• 3:16Codie Sanchez?

  No, because you told me, but now I'm lying.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  But now you're lying. And so what happened is also what you didn't even realize, and you can play that back, you know, play it back, is that your eye fluttered when you said no. Because you're having to think about it. So because I'm saying, is this a cactus? And you just went, and you blinked, and you weren't even aware of it. And those are little micro moments that, once you get adept at reading people, cold reading people, experiencing with people with different personalities. Magicians, what we do all the time, is we go into an audience as we're performing, and we're looking at everyone there, and determining who's gonna be and have the best reaction. Who's gonna be the best volunteer to give me the greatest kind of...

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Greatest reaction as I'm performing. So I might see somebody and if they're kind of like this, one, I have to flip them. I have to try and make sure that they're enjoying the performance. But also, it clues me in on, well, I don't want to use this person because they might be just like a dud. Because part of the experience of magic is a great presentation. It's a great moment. It's a great experience for an audience. But definitely determining how someone's going to react is a skill set that magicians, a lot of magicians have and something that I have that I can just look at an audience and go, that's the guy right there.

• 4:44Codie Sanchez?

  So when you're thinking about who to pick, let's say you're onstage, you're going out. One, what are you looking for? Are you looking for somebody who is easy to manipulate? Or are you looking for somebody who? Okay, so what does it mean to look for somebody who is easy to manipulate? How can you tell?

• 5:00Speaker 01

  The biggest thing is that people making eye contact with me. Because a lot of times people think when you go into the audience, I need someone from the audience. They go in, they'll go. And if they're kind of looking away from me, but with a little smirk, then I know they're up for a good time. You know what the worst person? I'll tell you who the worst person to pick for a magic show or just any sort of presentation, doesn't it just have to be magic? Is the person who is the most eager to get up on stage. So if there's someone that's like, I want to do it, I want to do it. It's like, automatic no.

• 5:31Codie Sanchez?

  Why?

• 5:31Speaker 01

  Automatic, because they're not, they want it to be about them. They want the limelight. They want to be onstage and show and they're, they want to be the star. That's not what I need. What I need is I need someone who is going to be, they're going to allow me to have fun with them and basically be the prop for the moment. Because they don't know what's going to happen. They don't know what's going to happen in the show. And I don't need somebody who's bouncing off the walls because if they're bouncing off the walls right during the moment that I need them to be focused, we lose the whole trick. The effect means nothing because it was lost with their antics. Okay?

• 6:11Speaker 01

  But if I have somebody who I know would be easy to suggest to, like, hey, I need you to stand right here. I need you to wink right now. I need you to smile here. Because there's different routines that I have where I'm coaching them and I'm telling them what to do. It's called a cod corpse, right? What happens is I'm instructing them.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  I'm instant stooging them. They don't know this was gonna happen. So if I say to somebody, this happened in a show of mine. At the end of this show, I, at the end of this routine, I gave applause to this guy and everybody's applauding and they're like, great. And as I shook his hand, I told him, and this was a very flamboyant man, I said, I shook his hand and I said, do a pirouette. Cause I knew he knew how to. I said, I said, do a pirouette. And as I told him, he looked at me and was like,

• 7:03Speaker 01

  right? So then what I did is I turned away. He spun. It looked amazing, but I pretended that I didn't see it. And the whole audience goes, oh my gosh. And then I, out of the corner of my eye, look and I go, oh, no, no, no. Like I'm going to stop him. And that is a key moment. And it was knowing ahead of time, bringing him on stage, seeing that he was able to take instruction, you know, that I knew that I could get that out of him. Same thing with kids.

• 7:33Codie Sanchez?

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• 8:16Codie Sanchez?

  Get busy creating. Hit the link in the description, use code Cody and thank me later. That's fascinating. Is that, is that what it means to read magic? Or what does it mean to read magic?

• 8:26Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a good question. Reading magic. Um, well, first of all, I should ask you this question. What do you think is the most common question? I'm asked as a magician.

• 8:37Codie Sanchez?

  How do you do a trick?

• 8:38Speaker 01

  How do you do it? Right? But it's the most obvious question. It's like, kind of uninteresting.

• 8:44Codie Sanchez?

  It's like saying, how do you make money, Cody? You're like, that's fucking complex.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, right. Totally. It's like this is the most uninteresting question you can ask, although it's the most common. A better question is,

• 8:55Speaker 01

  Do you know how other magicians do their tricks?

• 8:57Codie Sanchez?

  Hmm.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Right? Like if I were to ask you, I might say, "So Cody, this business over here, what are they doing? How are they actually making it happen?" And you're going, "Well, actually, here's, here's the rules. Here's the deal. Here's how it's structured. This person's taking a piece here, this..." Because you know all about it. So same thing with magic. Imagine seeing sheet music. If I had sheet music right here, can you read music?

• 9:18Codie Sanchez?

  No.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, me neither. I see a bunch of black squiggly lines, right? I'm just like, "I don't know what this is. I guess it's, you, I don't know anything." But someone who can read music, right? They can look at it, they know what it is, they know what it sounds like, the beats, the tempo, they know everything. Now, I can read magic. So I can watch another magician, okay? I know why he's saying the things he's saying, why he's standing the way he's standing, why he's wearing what he's wearing, why he's choosing to use these specific words. Because I can read magic and I can see, and just by watching it, and I'm not trying to figure it out, but I know what he's gonna do and how he's gonna do it before the audience even realizes. I was watching a friend of mine in Vegas, I went to his show, and like halfway through the trick, I'm just like,

• 10:02Speaker 01

  "This is great. That's amazing." Nothing's happened yet, but I know where he's gonna go. And so that's what reading magic is. If you know enough about magic and you can read it, you can watch a magician, and so therefore, I'm more interested in the presentation than the actual method.

• 10:18Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, it's sort of interesting. It kind of reminds me of body language. Like they say that 80% of body language is non-verbal.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 10:26Codie Sanchez?

  And so I wonder, you know, do you think that we are turning people off, we're losing people before we even open our mouths sometimes?

• 10:34Speaker 01

  Oh, 100%. 100%. And that's why the first impressions is so important, right? I mean, these things seem so obvious, but before every one of my shows, the curtain's down, and I'll walk out, I'll get mic'd up, it's four minutes, three minutes till show, I'll walk across the stage and I'll listen to the audience. And I can determine, because I know how many, how many members we have that night, whether it's, you know, a couple hundred or whatever. And I can say, "They're quiet. For this size of group, they're quiet." What does that mean? That means my first impression, I have to get them there. I have to raise their energy a little bit. If they're really loud and they're chatting and they're, you know, making a lot of noise, I'm like, "They're a little rambunctious."

• 11:18Speaker 01

  And I'm gonna have to get their attention, hold it. I'm not gonna allow for them to... Basically run away in their pockets of friends and then I'm trying to catch them saying, "Hey, pay attention, pay attention." So it's constantly, you know, listening to the audience and I suppose the best way to do it is to go out there and be genuine.

• 11:41Codie Sanchez?

  Uh huh.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  Right, so even when I did Main Street of Wall Street, right? I was out there, come out from the very beginning and it's like, "Hey, everybody, let's get started." No one's paying attention. Right, there's hundreds of people in this conference room.

• 11:54Codie Sanchez?

  Right.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  And you just have to wait. Because I feel like if you bash them and you're like, "Come on, people, let's go." Like it's a high school pep rally. Adults and people are like, "Who are you, wait, what are we doing here?" But if it's like, "All right, we're gonna get going here, are you ready?" And then I also do a lot of things within that particular performance or that event. I'm engaging with a few people in the front row. That allows people to settle in.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  And then I can address the group as a whole. So it's constantly auditing and constantly keeping an eye and being aware of the entire audience, especially when you're a large audience, whether it's up front, whether it's in the back and all these.

• 12:35Codie Sanchez?

  What do you think about, you know, I've seen you do this one-on-one with a lot of people. And so, you know, let's say, men, for instance, right now, I think it's hard dating out there. There's a lot of men that are maybe, you know, I think it's called projecting, like they'll go up to a woman at a bar and they'll lean in and they'll be loud and, you know, kind of close the space between the woman and then they're sort of rude if it doesn't work out. And so this projecting is actually a sign of a lack of confidence as opposed to they think it is confidence. So instead, how do you project individual confidence?

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Well, I think the best answer can be summed up in one word, competence.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  Confidence is just competence. So when you know your stuff, I don't have to try to impress you, right? If I ask you all about business, you're not gonna go, "Well, I think that..." You're just gonna go, "This is what it is." Right? I mean, and so if someone asks me about performance, about show, I've literally done thousands of shows for millions of people live, not including media, right? Live. So I just sit there and go, "Oh, I know this audience." Why? Because I've been in front of this kind of audience a thousand times, right? Here's the best move for picking up a girl, especially... So I work in a casino, and I've been working casinos for years. And so what happens? There's nightclubs in the casino, and then I'm a resident there. So I have a show there, people know me.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  I'd walk in and they just let me in and whatever. And this was the best way, and it's so funny, is I'd wait, I would see some guy try and hit on this girl, and this girl's always just like, "Oh, gosh." Every time, every time. They're loud, they're, you know, spitting all over her because they're drunk, and I'd say, "Oh, my gosh." And then the guy would leave, and she's like, uh, turn away, roll her eyes. And I'd just go over to her, and I would just like put my hand on her shoulder and just say, "I just have to apologize for that guy."

• 14:35Speaker 01

  "I know you're having a good time. I'm so sorry you have to deal with that. Have a great night."

• 14:40Codie Sanchez?

  And then she'd start to talk with you?

• 14:41Speaker 01

  One thousand, every time. And the thing was, is that there, she'd look at me like, "Oh, my gosh, thank you." Like, I'm noticing her situation. That's being genuine, because I was genuine. And whether something happened or not, it didn't really matter. But like, it allowed the door to be opened. So now she knows that I'm not a creep, and I'm not gonna bother her.

• 14:59Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, it's almost like you're releasing the pressure valve, too. She's like, "Ah, ah," and you're like, and then you're her exhale. You get to catch the exhale, which is really interesting.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  You see it all the time in casinos and the nightclubs. It's so funny. And I'm always like, "Here it goes." But to be perfectly honest, I haven't been in the nightclub scene for a while. I've been doing other things. But when I did go...

• 15:21Codie Sanchez?

  That's what you, that was your move?

• 15:22Speaker 01

  That was the move, that was the move, yeah.

• 15:24Codie Sanchez?

  How, so I think for a lot of people, they're not even aware of their body language. They're not even aware of like what happens when they present to somebody. How can somebody change their body language and the way that they engage with people if nonverbal is so important?

• 15:40Speaker 01

  Well, there's a book that I read and it's like a fascinating book, but it was geared for magicians. It was called Magic and Showmanship, okay? It's written eighty years ago, who knows? And it literally broke down in diagrams of how to stand, how to turn, if you drop something. And I remember reading that as a teenager and it im- immediately was like, oh, I'm doing things so wrong. Like if I drop something, people usually just bend over like this. Uh huh. Like, that looks awful. You know, what you should do is just bend at your legs, kinda like what, what ladies have to do with a dress on, right?

• 16:20Speaker 01

  You're not bending over, you're kind of bending at the knees, reaching down and that way your body and your torso is straight and flat to the audience. And it's the same idea. And so, I think being comfortable with, with who you are, it goes back to that competence, I have to say, I have to keep going back to that because I believe in it so strongly. Yeah. Is that, practice in front of a mirror, something also. I mean, this sounds silly, but what I would do every, I entered magic contests and I won some magic contests as a teenager and even in adulthood. And something that I would do is I'd rehearse at night in front of a mirror. No props, no music, just, basically one light on, just in front of a mirror and I'd practice, an eyebrow raise, a smirk, a look.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  So in my room growing up also, I had like playing cards taped onto the wall in different locations. So I would have a mirror here, or if I'm just facing this wall, those were my connection points with the audience. So I would look at, oh, two of diamonds is right here, four of clubs is right here, seven of hearts is here. And so that forced me and trained me to engage with all parts of the audience. So all of this, being in front of a mirror, watching yourself, practicing how you're going to move, practicing how you'd shake your hands, practicing your smiles. You know, these are things that seem kind of silly, but if you talk to any real expert in, in body language, even whether it's Robin Williams or Jim Carrey,

• 17:47Speaker 01

  they would spend hours in the mirror just.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, and it's no different. And if you do that, what that means is you are totally aware of your body. You're able to feel comfortable in it because you know what it looks. Because a lot of times, people are just so nervous and have anxiety because of what other people may be thinking of them.

• 18:09Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, such a good point.

• 18:10Speaker 01

  And if you don't, if you're already comfortable with all that.

• 18:14Codie Sanchez?

  That was one of the first things I noticed about you is you were very particular with the smile, like when it came out. So you would have an ask of somebody. And then as soon as you had this rather big ask, it would be this huge smile, you know, full smile, right?

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:30Codie Sanchez?

  And then you would have another small ask, and then you'd have a smirk with an eyebrow raise. And I can't do it because I have Botox right now, so it's not, this is also a problem. I'll have to try it in the mirror with Botox.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:40Codie Sanchez?

  But it's a really good point. Like, if, one, if you're gonna go up to a girl in the bar.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:45Codie Sanchez?

  There's a trick of how to get her.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:47Codie Sanchez?

  And you just shared it. And then, two, you know, if you're going to engage with somebody and ask them for something, it's like, how do you soften the ask? Do you think about that? Like, if I want something, how can I use my face, my tone, my intonation, in order to make the other person want to give it to me?

• 19:03Speaker 01

  Wow, that's such a great question. I mean, I'm gonna, I'm gonna describe this in magic scenario, okay? So a magician knows all sorts of different little ways to get you to behave and do something specifically that I want you to do, whenever I want you to do it, okay? And I think, if we're going psychological here, the way to control someone's behavior mostly is to eliminate the motivation from the opposite behavior. For example, if I want to, if I want to hand you something and I want you to use your right hand, as opposed to going, "Oh, here, Cody," and it might be a little awkward, I might cut off the motivation for you to use your left hand. Does that make sense?

• 19:47Codie Sanchez?

  Yep.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  So like, here, let me see if I can, I can have a pen here. So, I'm gonna give you this pen. Actually, can you, is that in the way?

• 19:55Codie Sanchez?

  What, this?

• 19:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I want to give you this, but no, grab that too.

• 19:58Codie Sanchez?

  Oh yeah, right.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  Right, and so, I just occupied, do you get what they're saying?

• 20:02Codie Sanchez?

  It's like a hundred percent.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  I just occupied your brain with, is this in the way, moving? And this was a silly example that I just came up with right now. But, it didn't feel awkward, because if I were to give you a pen, if I were to give you a pen like this, and I said, "Here",

• 20:15Codie Sanchez?

  I think I'd take, yeah.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  You would take it with your left hand, because it's the closest hand. So I have to cut the motivation off. So, what does that mean? It means that if I want somebody to acquiesce to one of my requests, I might, instead of thinking of it like, "Oh, I really hope you do this", I might eliminate the motivations for them to give me an objection.

• 20:36Codie Sanchez?

  That's so smart. You know, I think about it almost from a respect perspective. Like, I remember in my career previously, there were many points where I would be talking, but people wouldn't be listening, or I would, you know, I would feel like they weren't hearing me, or maybe I would talk too much, because I felt like I wasn't getting the respect that I wanted.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 20:54Codie Sanchez?

  You know, and I think a lot of people feel like that.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:57Codie Sanchez?

  And, especially maybe in meetings. Like, what would you do, in more of a corporate setting, if you were trying to get somebody to actually listen and hear you?

• 21:06Speaker 01

  Wow, this is where showmanship comes into play. And this is where theater techniques come into. And, something that I love, and I've been doing it now, because in this, in this interview, right, in this, in this conversation, and I did it downstairs, right before, is that there's things that, vocal intonations, interest. So like, if I lean in, right, you're now more engaged.

• 21:31Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  If I lower my voice to more of a whisper, it's called sotto voce, right? These are like theater techniques, these are performance techniques. So if I tell you something, and then I get really big, because I'm super excited about it, it just, it keeps the interest gauge, interest gauge, right, up. And that's what you want. So if you're in a meeting, and you, you want to make sure that people are listening to you, if you're, nothing is worse, people, nothing is worse, than just, you know, slide deck, and this monotone, right? Get out from behind the podium. So, here's a great example of this. Main Sheraton Wall Street, your big event, just had it a month ago. And I was giving a presentation. And I was speaking on reframing and seller financing.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  And your team emailed me and said, hey, can you send us your slide deck?

• 22:25Speaker 01

  First of all.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  I don't even, I've never put a slide deck together in my life. I'm an entertainer, I'm an entertainer. And I'm just like, oh, my gosh. So I didn't send them anything, hoping that they'd forget and not ask me again. Like then morning up, oh, okay, you can just bring your slide deck. And I was like, and so the night before the presentation, I'm sitting in bed and like for five minutes, I'm like, should I put a slide deck together? Like, I mean, I know how to put like a PowerPoint, like, I know how to do it, but. And I just sat there and I go, in my brain, that's not what I do. That's not what I do. I'm gonna go do what I do. Right? And so I made one slide. I didn't even use it. I forgot.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  So I plugged in my computer and said the title of the presentation. And then I'm like, all right, let's go. And I started engaging with the first row. And then, you know, had the whole presentation. But the point in that was, I didn't even have to communicate in that. And then, of course, they're like, you have forty five minutes. And I went fifty minutes. I'm like, what time? I'm like, we went long. Oh, my gosh. And so the point of that is, how do you get people to listen?

• 23:38Speaker 01

  I'm going back to it. Competence, knowing what you're gonna talk about. For example, with Jordan Peterson, oh, man, I watch his videos on YouTube. They're amazing. And he said before, he's like, you, if you're gonna give an hour presentation, you need to know and be able to speak on this for like four hours.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  And you just, that's the competence. I think also rehearsal, like it seems so silly, like I know none of us wanna do it, but record yourself, look in the mirror, practice, rehearse, go over it. Like if, if you don't have a goal, if you don't have a, a, a endpoint, if you don't have a vision of where you wanna be, you're never gonna hit it, right? And so if you wanna be interesting in a boardroom, what do you do? Know your stuff, engage, watch other performers. We were talking about this before. I watched, you know who is amazing to watch? Comedians. Their timing has to be precise.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  Because if their pause is too long, the audience drops. If they respond too quickly, they don't allow for the audience to react with laughter and they say they punchline too soon, half the audience, you know, doesn't hear it. So it's constantly listening and watching the audience.

• 24:56Codie Sanchez?

  So it seems like a lot of being heard and listened to and respected is actually listening.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  One hundred percent. So there's a man named Michael Davis. He's a very famous juggler. Okay, he was on SNL back in the day, big shows, amazing. I was probably eighteen or nineteen years old doing a show in Lafayette, California, at this country clubs kind of thing. And they hired me to perform for their annual event. Eighteen, nineteen years old, you know, I was making four hundred bucks. I was like, um, this is amazing. I've made it, you know? And so I do this show and everyone leaves except one guy. And I'm like, oh, he's gonna compliment me and everything. And I realized who it was. And I go, oh, my gosh, I, I, I knew who you are, oh, my gosh.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  And he goes, good job, kid, you know? He goes, I, I just have one, one bit of advice for you. And I said, what's that? He said, listen to your audience, they will give you your entire show. Such good advice. So as I'm performing, right? The collective mind is greater than an individual, right? So as I'm performing and I'm doing my shows over the years, if there was a joke, or, or, I'm sorry, if there was like laughter coming out of this section after a certain point in my show. I didn't know what was said. Because if it's really funny, then I can use it in my show every night. And now I have a built-in joke that feels off the cuff, but actually came from the audience.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  So absolutely, your presentation should be catered to the individual audience, because no audience is the same. There's a famous debate amongst magicians is, you know, is there such thing as a bad audience? And the classic answer is no. There's no such thing as bad audience, only bad performers, right? That's not true at all. There are awful audiences. I can tell you, I've been in front of many of them. And I was doing a show in Lake Tahoe, and the audience was quiet. They were so quiet. They weren't clapping, they weren't laughing, they were nothing. It was like crickets. And at one point in the show, I exited stage for a second, and one of my assistants goes, "Oh my gosh, this audience."

• 27:16Speaker 01

  And I said, "Do you know why they're quiet?" She's like, "What do you mean, why they're quiet?" "'Cause they suck." And I'm like, "No." It's like, "Well, yeah, but no." I was like, "No." I said, "They're cold."

• 27:27Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, it's cold in the room?

• 27:29Speaker 01

  It was winter. And my theater at the time had exterior walls. And that venue, that theater, was freezing. And so they've been up on the mountain, they're tired, they're watching a show, they have the jackets on and they're sitting like this, and they don't want to move. And so, but that, I mean, so easily, I could have just been like, "Oh, these audience suck and dismissive." It's no, my job is to take an audience, whether they're bad or good, and if they are bad, I, my job is to turn them into the best audience they can be. You're not always gonna have the best audience. Not everyone's gonna be with you 1,000% all the time, right? So it's constantly catering, and my career, my shows are 1,000% that.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  That's what makes comedians great too, is that they're all crowd work, people like the crowd work. Because why? It's genuine, it's real. We want something real.

• 28:20Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  Right? So that applies in everyday life, in every situation. Be genuine, be present.

• 28:26Codie Sanchez?

  You know, you were talking about Jordan Peterson, and it reminded me of one of his lines, which is that the most dangerous person is the most articulate person.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh, completely.

• 28:36Codie Sanchez?

  Do you think that's true, and if that is true? How do we increase our ability to be articulate? Is that possible? Can somebody become better at speaking?

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  So, yes, they can become better. And something that I've

• 28:57Speaker 01

  done in the past in different lectures and presentations for magicians was the five things that make a great performer. The five things that makes a great performer. And it applies to everyone, really, in any of their fields. But number one is natural talent. Some people are just gifted. They're able to articulate easier. Maybe they're able to retain more than someone else. Natural talent, right? The second thing is that natural talent is going to give opportunities. Okay, those opportunities are going to manifest. And now you can speak here, you can communicate here, you have a job opening here, whatever that case may be. The third thing is confidence and experience. And that's where that competence comes from.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  The confidence and the competence only comes through experience, which is doing it over and over again. The fourth thing is hard work. So, what's that saying, you know? Hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard. Right? And the fifth thing is gratitude, and I think is actually one of the most important ones. But when you extrapolate that from performing lens and in general, I have listened to YouTube videos and lectures, thousands of hours. You do videos on like how many books you've read, okay? Like, it's gaining the knowledge, but something that I've been doing more so, because I feel like it was like a game, like achievements, right? Like, you've read this many books?

• 30:21Speaker 01

  And it's like, great, I just read on Audible, I listened to fifty-nine books this month. It's like, no. I think it's better, what I've been trying to be intentional about is going through books, reading the same chapter over again, and taking notes, and careful notes. And I think that, to answer the question...

• 30:42Speaker 01

  You can get better if you focus in on maybe one speech that you like, that you see a presentation. And you, and you focus and you study how someone's so articulate. Whether it's on a YouTube video, I mean YouTube is amazing because you can just break it down and watch it over and over again. So if you see someone that you're like, hey, I wish that I can communicate like them. Watch them over and over again. See what they're doing. Right? And I speak this way because I've been doing it for years, but like even there, when I'm giving that interesting information, I'm like, watch them again. My voice changes. You know, how I'm speaking, communicating, my intensity. That all changes.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  And I think that's what leads to a captivating and more articulate person.

• 31:30Codie Sanchez?

  I love that. You know, um, I was reading up on magic before this, as one does.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah? As one does.

• 31:37Codie Sanchez?

  And one thing that I didn't know is, did you know that Charles Manson was a hypnotist? Did you know that?

• 31:44Speaker 01

  You are digging deep.

• 31:46Codie Sanchez?

  Is that not true?

• 31:47Speaker 01

  No, I don't know. I don't know, but I mean.

• 31:50Codie Sanchez?

  Charles Manson supposedly was a hypnotist and also hypnotized people in prison, which I thought was fascinating. So then I went down this hypnotist rabbit hole.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  Hold on, hold on, Times. You said you were looking up magic.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  How does mass murder and hypnotism fall in that category? Now I know where you, now I know where you grouped me.

• 32:10Codie Sanchez?

  YouTube, very dark rabbit hole at the end of the day. But I wanted to, I, I know that you do hypnotism sometimes.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've, I've trained. I, I've never done it on my own, um, in my own hip show. Uh, but I've definitely trained with.

• 32:24Codie Sanchez?

  Is that what they call it? A hip?

• 32:25Speaker 01

  It's a hip show. Yeah, yeah.

• 32:27Codie Sanchez?

  How does one train in hypnotism?

• 32:30Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. The induction is the most important part. Um, and it's not unlike reading your audience. That's why whenever you see a hypnotist show, they grab like thirty audience members, right? First, and then they start eliminating them. And at the very end, there may be six people left on stage.

• 32:47Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  And these are the six that are the most controllable, the ones that are the most, um. Easily suggestible.

• 32:54Codie Sanchez?

  So is her.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  So everyone can be hypnotized, okay? And think of it this way. Have you ever been? And here's an example of it. Have you ever been driving? And all of a sudden, you're there and you're like, oh, my gosh. Like, wait, I was zoned out and I just drove wherever it is.

• 33:09Codie Sanchez?

  Yes.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  That's essentially the same as hypnotism. You're kind of present, but your mind is elsewhere. So you're kind of blocking. You cannot recall anything that just took place, even though it actually happened in the physical world. Right? So the same idea. And some people are more prone to that. Some people are more susceptible to that. Right? So if you're really focused and you have caffeine and you're not tired and you are really, you know, energized, that's not gonna happen. When does that happen? You had a long day. You kind of relax and you're just kind of over it and then you zone out. That's why hip shows start with that. It's like, relax. And you start eliminating the people who maybe are going to be counter to that. And so you don't want somebody with high energy.

• 33:54Speaker 01

  You want somebody who's a little bit relaxed. And that's why it starts that way.

• 33:57Codie Sanchez?

  Interesting. I had no idea about that.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:01Codie Sanchez?

  It made me kind of think about one of the things that you told me about before that I'm not too sure, which is, tell me about, what is an empty safe?

• 34:09Speaker 01

  So, the empty safe, and I absolutely love this. Why do magicians? And we can branch into hypnotism. But why do magicians keep their secrets?

• 34:21Codie Sanchez?

  Some other people can't copy them?

• 34:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay, business savvy. This is a business podcast. She's like, job security, first of all. Okay, eliminate the competition. And you grow your sales. No.

• 34:33Codie Sanchez?

  That's not why. What?

• 34:34Speaker 01

  That's not why.

• 34:35Codie Sanchez?

  Okay.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  The reason why magicians don't tell their secrets, okay? Is because if the audience knew the secrets, they'd immediately become disenchanted.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  Right, so magicians guard an empty safe, not just to protect these vital, important secrets. But they guard the safe so that other people don't discover that it's actually empty.

• 35:00Codie Sanchez?

  Interesting.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:02Codie Sanchez?

  So it's like Santa Claus.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  Kind of Santa Claus. I mean, it's like, if I, I have a, my nephew and my niece, my niece has one and my nephew's five. Fun age and you know, my sister's like, I think it might be time to take him to like Disneyland or something. It's like, I don't really wanna go to Disneyland, but I would go with him.

• 35:19Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  Why? Because I get to see it through his eyes. He gets to be enchanted by it all, by the magic of it all, right? And so, a magician's job is to keep and maintain that for his audience.

• 35:31Codie Sanchez?

  I love that. I actually think about that a little bit with business too, because you know, there's this idea that you should have complete trust, complete transparency with your employees, complete honesty with everything that you do. You know, completely upfront, like he's an upfront guy, she's a transparent girl. And I'm not so sure about that.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, what does that mean? That's such a buzzword right now, transparency, right? I think, I mean, first of all, you could be honest and not transparent in everything. Nothing is fully transparent. I mean, if we wanna go, you know, high level, like, does the government have secrets? Yes. Does your employer have secrets? Yes. You know, I love, I love when people like get feuds on like, you know, the social media about the government is doing this and that, and oh, well, this person does this and that. And I'm like, bro, you don't even know all the details of your life, right? People lose their jobs caught off guard, people, their spouses and infidelity, all these things happening. People are like, what? I didn't know this was happening. And yet you're so sure what's going on in government, like, you know,

• 36:35Speaker 01

  you know, economical, you know, uh, relations between different, anyways, the point is, is that I find that really funny. But you can be truthful. And also not fully transparent, there should be a little bit of that. And a magician's job, and I would say this is magician. There's a, there's a famous quote too that says a magician is the most honest person in the room. Because I tell you I'm gonna fool you, and then I do. Right? So I think that if you're honest with your employees and, and your business, and I am too. I think that it's, what I wanted to tell all my employees is like, hey, if something comes up, you tell me. And so I'm aware of it.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  And transparency would say, well, I need to tell them everything on my mind. It's like, no, I'll say, okay, I wrote that down. You're gonna have to come back to me in a month, let me think about that, or whatever have you. One of my employees, she kind of mentioned something to me and I said, not now. I said, but please bring it up next quarter. And you know what she loved? What she loved is I kept track of it, I didn't dismiss her. And as it came to that time, I said, I know we have our conversation coming up. And when we had that conversation, she goes, that made me feel so good. Because I was there, I was present with her, and I was being honest with her, as opposed to just going, mm, I'm avoiding that or, or whatnot. So you can be honest without being fully transparent.

• 37:58Codie Sanchez?

  I think it's very true. I mean, I think about our business right now, and there's, there's this period in time where everybody wanted complete, um, salary transparency, remember that? Like the big, the big tech companies were like, we're gonna tell what every single person at this company makes. And I remember when that was happening, talking to a friend who was gonna do this, ran a billion dollar company. And I was like, I, I think it's an awful idea, let me tell you why. Just feel in your gut right now for a second, how it feels if somebody knows exactly what you make right now. Like no matter what it is, it's high, it's low, it's mid, it's whatever. Like how do you feel the second that I know exactly what you make? Or exactly how much you have in your bank account? It feels a little weird, right? It feels weird. And so if you feel that way, and you're pretty evolved on money, because you got a lot of it, you've probably worked through scarcity mindset. How are your employees gonna feel when they see it?

• 38:41Codie Sanchez?

  And so I think there is this big belief that transparency is everything. But I like how Robert Greene talks about the fact that, you know, concealment is actually one of the biggest gifts that you can give in some instances.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  I, I agree. That's such a good point. I don't think that everyone knowing what everyone's making, first of all, is that, just what you said. Someone who has a lot of money is usually pretty evolved in money. There's this, you know. As everybody mentioned, they would like, people think that just because you have a lot of money, then they didn't earn it, they don't know anything, it was all trust fund, all that, it's like, that's so untrue. Most of the people with a lot of money that I know run small businesses, built something, right? What's the stat? How many are self-made millionaires in this country?

• 39:27Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, seventy-nine percent.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, almost eighty percent are all self-made. They're competent people, they know how to run it. Not everyone, okay, not every single person knows all the intricacies of money. And that's why when people say like, "Oh, we're gonna do a capital gains tax," it's like, you don't even understand what that means, right? Like, it's silly. It's like, you don't even know what that means.

• 39:48Codie Sanchez?

  Yes, that's very true.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  And people who don't, people go, "Yeah, we should," are people who don't have any capital gains. And so they don't, they don't know what it is. And it goes back to like, just being, you know, competent about those, about money and whatnot. But yeah, no, I don't think that's a good idea. Magician, entertainers, oh my gosh, entertainers are so funny. They, they

• 40:08Speaker 01

  this happens all the time. Entertainers are talking and everybody's like, "Oh, like, you know, I got the best gig," you know, and they're bragging, just like in business, right? They're like, "Oh, that's good, it's a good paying gig." It's like, "How much?" "Oh, it's good, it's really paying really good." It's like, "How much?" No one wants to say. No one wants to say. Why? Because they don't know what's good. Like, they don't know if it's good or not. They go, "Oh, it's a high-paying gig, it's a good-paying gig." It's like, maybe for you, and maybe for someone else, it's not. But that's not the point. The point is to, one, be able to live, in my opinion, right, is to live within your means, maximize your value to whoever it is, your client, your job, your work, whatever you're doing,

• 40:52Speaker 01

  right? And that's when you can get the most back. And that's learning and meeting people like you, like watching these podcasts, being educated, so that way it's gonna serve you best. I hate the scarcity mindset, and I hate this idea that like, "Oh, well, because you're this or that, then you don't have the privileges of everyone else." It's like, forget all that. Because when everybody says like, "Oh, I I'm not, I didn't grow up with this or whatever," it's like, okay, forget everybody else, let's focus on you. What are you doing right now? What are the opportunities you have? And how can we make your current situation better? It doesn't matter about anybody else, it don't matter. I had this conversation with a friend of mine one time, and she said, you know,

• 41:37Speaker 01

  She said, uh, you know, I think if Timmy has a bunch of candy, she should share, share some with Jamal. And I was like, I, I believe in charitable giving, 100%, I believe in that, yeah. And she goes, well, Timmy should share it. And I said, here's a better one. How about we teach Jamal that if he knocks on doors and says trick or treat, he can make candy that way. Forget Timmy, I don't care about Timmy, I'm focused on Jamal.

• 42:06Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  And, you know, this is a good friend of mine, and, you know, I say that with, with empowering people who may be thinking that they don't have as much as someone else. It's that comparison mindset. It's like, don't worry about them, focus on you. How do we get you to where you want to be? But before we can do that, you have to have, you have to have clarity. You have to have an ankle.

• 42:28Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, you know, one of the things that's interesting that makes me think about this is, um, you know, everybody's always got an opinion of things. And so, you know, I remember the first time I gave a speech and there was a heckler in a crowd, like, somebody who-

• 42:42Speaker 01

  Really?

• 42:43Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, yeah. Like, uh-

• 42:45Speaker 01

  Wait, what does that look like? Okay, not to cut your story off, but what, how do you mean, what do you mean heckling you?

• 42:48Codie Sanchez?

  Well, so this was, talk about like a bad crowd. So this was, it was a, um, it was late at night. It was what I could only describe as a, um, like a mafia bar mitzvah that I was contracted to speak at. It was the weirdest thing I've ever been to. It was in Detroit, Tanner was there. And, uh, and, and it's, it, we're going on at 9:30. It's packed. There's, I don't know, 500, 600 people in the room. It's like, kind of like a gala looking thing at a weird country club. And somehow, I'm speaking at this event. And I fired my agent after that, but, but we did, so I'm, so I'm in this crowd and it's loud. It's like bumpy music. They've been drinking for a while. And so they're like, they're excited for you, we're ready to get out there.

• 43:33Codie Sanchez?

  Now, Alex, you know me, I talk about buying business. Like, I have graphs in my PowerPoint. I have flow charts.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  You have a slide deck.

• 43:41Codie Sanchez?

  I have a slide deck.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  You have a slide deck.

• 43:43Codie Sanchez?

  I have a prepared slide, like a pointer. And so I'm looking at this crowd and I'm like, oh my fucking god, they don't want to hear this. And- So I remember like vividly being like, oh my God, like I'm not gonna be able to get their attention. There's a bunch of them standing in the back, drinking at the bar. They're having a whole different conversation while a couple hundred of them in front are like ready to go because the bar is in the same room. I'm like, this is a nightmare. So I watched the guy in front of me, also with a slide deck. He's just getting murdered, right? He's just like, he's showing the graphs and the returns and everybody's like, "Yeah, Tom, blah, blah." They're just talking over him. He's sweating. I'm like, this is great, I get to go up after this guy. So anyway, they get off, people are like, you know, when he leaves the stage.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  And that was you.

• 44:28Codie Sanchez?

  And that, yeah, me, it was me in the audience. So whatever, then they throw the lights, I go up. And I'm like, I don't really know what I'm gonna do to handle this. And I had that moment where I'm like, do I engage with a little bit in the front? Do I yell at them? Do I whatever? And I just did the power play. I just stood there. And I was just like...

• 44:52Codie Sanchez?

  And then that makes people uncomfortable. Silence. The music's down. Single light on. And I just kinda stood there. And I waited until like people start fidgeting in their chairs, you know? So you can tell these people are nervous, they don't know what to do. You can kinda start to see them talk to other people. And then, you know, and then finally, I don't remember how many minutes, but it felt like six years. I'm trying not to sweat and in the back, I'm like, "You got two choices. You can stay quietly, or you can step outside and be as loud as you fucking want. But we gotta pick one of the two." And so, but I was nervous because they could have been like, these are like mafia seeming guys. They could have been like, "Yeah, fuck you." And then like on back. But I think at least with that audience, what I was thinking, because I could feel them a little bit.

• 45:37Codie Sanchez?

  I was like, they're tough and they're powerful. And the only way they're gonna respect me is if I come off tough and powerful back. If I like, "Hi guys, please excuse me." Immediate loss.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  100%. No, that, I know those shows. And you have to make that choice. And I think that you made the right choice. And I know those crowds, I work in a casino. And I would say that in the 10-plus years of me having residency in a casino...

• 46:08Speaker 01

  I've had to kick out four people in ten years, thousands of shows. And the most recent one happened this summer season. And there's this guy who was, had a lot of drinks, right?

• 46:21Codie Sanchez?

  Nope.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  And afterwards, I told the cocktail waitress, "No." Like, he came in with two martinis, right? He came in, and you gave him another. I'm looking at his table, and I could see what you do- anyway. And at one point, I, you know, he was like, "We know how it's done." And like, I don't perform in a very challenging manner. It's all in good fun, and, and I would be, I'd probably be more nervous earlier in my career, but also, if I knew he knew.

• 46:52Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, right.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Right? But he didn't. He's just saying it, because that's what you say at a magic show. And so then I just said, "You know what? Uh, it's time for you to leave." And then he's like, "I'm not leaving, I'm not leaving." And so then I told Tony, who's my audio, I just said, you know, "Lou pre-show." So now, music comes up, I pop my mic off, I kinda go over to them. And the people sitting around them can hear us, but the majority of the audience can't hear this interaction. And I said, "Uh, it's time for you guys to leave."

• 47:21Speaker 01

  And then, I did the same thing that you just did. I said, they go, "No, no, no, no, no, we'll stay." And his wife was like, really embarrassed, because she's like, "He just had a lot to drink." And I said, "I understand." I said, "You have two choices." She goes, "No, we'll stay, we'll stay." I go, "It's past that, it's past that. You have two choices. Either you get up and leave,

• 47:38Speaker 01

  or security's gonna be here in like, two minutes, and they're gonna escort you off of the property."

• 47:43Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  She goes, "No, no, we'll stay." I go, "It's, those are your two options. You don't have any other options right now." I said, "So, I know it's embarrassing for you." And I'm talking to the woman now, because he's like, "Oh, I'm staying here." And so I was like, I was like, you know, "I know it's embarrassing, but those are your options." And she, they, eventually, they got up, and it took some time, and it was, it was a little uncomfortable for the audience, but, at the same time, they know that I have their back.

• 48:09Codie Sanchez?

  That's exactly right.

• 48:10Speaker 01

  I have the audience's back. And of course, what happens every single time- You know, they leave the theater and then as soon as the door closes behind them, the whole audience

• 48:18Codie Sanchez?

  Claps.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  You know, they're clapping. And something that's interesting, and in your situation, a little bit different because you're speaking at an event where people are buying tickets to my show to see it, is that, you know, it's like you guys paid money for this and I respect that. You know, how I pay my bills is by you guys buying tickets to my show.

• 48:37Codie Sanchez?

  Yep.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  So you guys are my important customers that I want to make sure that I serve properly. The funny thing is, is they, they contacted Ticketmaster and they wanted a refund. And I was like, and so box office, do you want to refund this? And I was like, uh, no. I was like, first of all, I record all of my shows, right? And I have a mic, so that way when the house mic is off, we still have it on recording, right?

• 48:58Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, that's hysterical.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  So you can hear the whole exchange.

• 49:00Codie Sanchez?

  They wanted a refund?

• 49:01Speaker 01

  They wanted a refund. And I was like, no.

• 49:03Codie Sanchez?

  That's one of the first, like, few times I'd be like, and no. Also, you need to pay me more. Now I'm, now I'm mad. Now I'm coming after you.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  The reality, they were gonna bill you again. No, I mean, and so those things happen, um, but you definitely have to make those choices. And, and, you know, the more experience, the things that aren't gonna, you know, throw me off. Earlier in my career with less experience, I would have been like, oh my gosh, what do I do? How do I handle this? And just a little nervous, you know, and now it's, no, the show's gonna continue. Here's something that I do in a lot of my shows, um, especially, especially at corporate events or smaller, not kind of my theater casino show, um, I'll come out, they'll introduce me, Alex Tremont, and I'll start clapping, and I'll just keep clapping. And I'll keep clapping, and it's kind of a funny joke, and people clap, and then they

• 49:52Speaker 01

  think, okay, it's over, and I'm like, you know, and then they, oh, okay. And there's always, it's usually a man, it's usually a man, that will go.

• 49:59Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, so you can tell.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  And now.

• 50:03Codie Sanchez?

  And he's got an eyebrow raised.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  He's got, he's like, I'm not doing this.

• 50:07Codie Sanchez?

  Yes.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  And I, and now it becomes this power play, right? It's, I cannot let him not clap.

• 50:16Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, wow.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Because if I do, he now is the alpha in the show.

• 50:20Codie Sanchez?

  Weird.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  I have to be the one in control. Because the minute that I get this person to do it, they know, look, I'm running this. And I will wait it out because I'm not going anywhere. I'm not gonna start until I'm ready. And sometimes I'm ready based off the audience being prepared. Being ready and receptive to the show. So this just happened, I was in Phoenix and I was doing this gig. Clapping and this guy's like, no. And what happens is they kind of see, I'm like, okay, you're doing okay, I got you. And then I see the one person like, there he is. And now I zone in on him, I'm just staring at the guy. And when you make eye contact with somebody, you just dead stare them the whole time. It makes most people uncomfortable because they're just like. You know what I mean? And it's like, I'm fine with it.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  Like, I will sit here and stare you down. And then the whole audience kind of sees that the guy's not doing it. So what happens? All the audience turn on him and they're like, come on dude, let's go, we want to see the show. And then. And then eventually they break. And sometimes it's been awkward to where it feels like we've been clapping for nine minutes. And really it's maybe only 30 seconds or 45 seconds is a really long time. But at the same time, it, once he does it, then it's like, okay, now we're gonna begin. And now he knows and everyone knows. I'm in control of the show. I'm competent, I know what's happening, right?

• 51:43Codie Sanchez?

  That's a great point too, because I also think it's like for your everyday life. There's a lot of ways to do these, these power plays. You're not trying to one up somebody, but you're trying to establish a certain level of respect, basically. In order to get people to engage. And you know, you can see it a lot in, in meetings in business, let's say. So you always have, you have a group of people in a meeting and you can kind of tell like, who's typing on the computer and not paying attention? Who's got like a look on their face like I'd rather not be in this meeting today? And so even in like a small group of five or six people, the way to fix that is usually you call them out. You go, oh, hey, hey, Bob, like, how's it going? You thought about that the other day, didn't you? And then they're like, fucking, put the, put the computer down, right? And so it's like, you know, I think darkness always gives to the light. So where can you put some attention on it?

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 52:28Codie Sanchez?

  And that is how you assert dominance without even realizing. It's like the dog with the paw over your hand.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  Right, I mean, you're calling attention to somebody and putting the kind of social anxieties on them.

• 52:39Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  Shapes them up real quick, right? And another thing that I've done in my shows and my performances is, uh, you know, just saying, hey, look guys. You know, I'm here to give you my best. I'm here gonna give you my best. I appreciate you giving me your best. And it's like, hey, we're here for a reason and a purpose. You know, and can I be real with you guys? I'm gonna be real, I'm gonna be genuine, I'm gonna be present. And that's the biggest thing for me and my career now. And what my audience at the meet and greets always says, because I remember people's names. And there's callbacks during the performance, and it's very highly engaging. And it's like, I want the audience to know that I did the show for them. It wasn't just all, just a play. Same line, same everything. No, no, I want it for them.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  And that keeps people who may be uninterested engaged because you can call them out. And here's another thing that I do. Which is, if you see somebody straying, not kind of paying attention. Not unlike what you just said, which was, hey, Bob, right? You have this point.

• 53:44Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  You praised him a little bit.

• 53:46Codie Sanchez?

  Hmm.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Right? And so, if there's a guy who's kind of like, hmm, watching the show or whatever, a little less interested. I might look at him and go, pretty good, right? Like, that's, and all of a sudden, I'm giving him.

• 53:58Codie Sanchez?

  Permission.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm giving him some attention.

• 54:01Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  Right?

• 54:02Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah. And is it the same with hecklers? Like, you almost, you don't want to give the big hecklers too much attention, but you also have to move them to the side. Like, how do you manage trolls live?

• 54:14Speaker 01

  Totally. Um, you, you can't give them attention at all. And most of my heckling, and I, I really, really like, as I said, I don't get a lot of hecklers in my performance, in my style. It's just, it's just not, I don't get that.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  The people I've hit out were drunk.

• 54:29Codie Sanchez?

  This is.

• 54:29Speaker 01

  But most of the disruptions that I get, and that's why I don't call them hecklers per se, are just people who are super enthusiastic, that are just being a little disruptive and annoying the people around them.

• 54:39Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 54:39Speaker 01

  So they're like, yeah, that's great!

• 54:41Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, right.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  And it's like, bro, that wasn't, nothing happened yet. You know, like, sell that.

• 54:45Codie Sanchez?

  You say that?

• 54:46Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no. It's, um, you don't give them attention. You don't feed them.

• 54:50Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  Here's what happens all the time. At the end of some routine, or end of a moment, someone will say something really loud like, "Oh, yeah, it's not up your sleeve," or something silly, and they think it's hilarious. Right? They think it's great. And it's like, oh, boy. And I hear it.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  But I don't call any attention to it. And sometimes they go, "He didn't hear me."

• 55:12Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  So they say it again.

• 55:13Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  And I just keep moving on, as if I didn't, even though I did. And I, I avoid them. I don't give them any energy. Because if I look them in the eye and smile, that gives them permission to keep going.

• 55:22Codie Sanchez?

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:23Speaker 01

  So I have to avoid them until I feel that them kind of settle back down.

• 55:26Codie Sanchez?

  Uh-huh.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  And so, you absolutely avoid them. The unfortunate part that happens when you have somebody that's really engaging or being disruptive, that wants the attention and the energy, is I have to, I have to kind of ignore that part of the audience. But there's different techniques that I could do to make sure that they're engaged. So as I'm talking and delivering a line, if I don't want to make eye contact and energy here, I could just include them just with a gesture. So like, I could be talking to somebody, and I'm like, "Jeez, this, Tanner's really going off right now." Like, he, I need to rein in on him. I'm not gonna give him permission or smile, but I'm gonna say, "All right, well, everybody's here." And I could still gesture to them, and that feels, it's kind of a line, right? That includes this section of the audience. Um, but, yeah, I don't think that giving them, really what people want is the attention. And by giving them the attention, it gives them permission to keep being disruptive.

• 56:11Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  Um.

• 56:12Codie Sanchez?

  Have you ever really bombed? On a set? Like, have you ever just had like a terrible, terrible show?

• 56:17Speaker 01

  I did. I had, I, I never should have been in there, okay? They booked me. It was just like mafia bar mess, though, okay?

• 56:24Codie Sanchez?

  Okay, okay, I've been there. I've been there.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  Um, I bombed, oh gosh. Um, oh man. It was in Miami, at the Faina.

• 56:34Codie Sanchez?

  Hmm.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  Now.

• 56:35Codie Sanchez?

  It's fancy.

• 56:36Speaker 01

  People, you've been there, right?

• 56:37Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 56:37Speaker 01

  Okay, you know Faina?

• 56:38Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh. And, the person who booked me there, they didn't describe the event well.

• 56:46Codie Sanchez?

  Hmm.

• 56:47Speaker 01

  Okay? And because of that, I just, it was like, I shouldn't have been there. Oh my gosh. So, what it was, it was like a mixer. They had a DJ, they had karaoke planned, there was drinks in a bar, you know, just people socializing and chit-chatting. And, they're like, "You're gonna be in the middle of this." And I get there, and I'm like, "You didn't tell me there was gonna be a DJ or karaoke or a live band. You just said, 'Oh, there's like a mixer for some people, can you do some magic? And then maybe we'll have it at the front of the room.'" And it was my fault for like, really not diving in. And it wasn't really a, a paid gig, it was like for a friend, an acquaintance, kind of coming in for this event. Anyways, I said, "I'll, I'll be there, I'll do it."

• 57:30Speaker 01

  Well, I get there, there's this DJ, loud music going, people shouting at each other on the dance floor, you know? And then the DJ has a mic and was like, okay, you know, we're gonna take a break, we're gonna take a break, you have like fifteen minutes to just chill, go get some drinks, do whatever, and please welcome Alex Ramon.

• 57:51Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, oh, big intro.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  And I was like, you literally dismissed everybody. You dismissed everybody and then intro'd me and I'm walking on and I'm like, oh my gosh. And so, ah, it just was bad. It was like the longest fifteen minutes ever. And I had an agent there for a cruise line that I was working with at the time. She was like the only one paying attention. It's like, because, and I'm like, jeez, she's booking me, and I'm like, I promise, this isn't how it goes on the ships. It's like, I promise, keep and pay attention. And I do the show, and I have a moment where I engage an audience member, and it was one of those things where I go, I'm never gonna get their attention, so I just am gonna go

• 58:35Speaker 01

  and do the best that I can for what I'm doing. I also, you know-

• 58:41Codie Sanchez?

  Were you sweating? Do you still remember it?

• 58:43Speaker 01

  Oh, I still remember it.

• 58:44Codie Sanchez?

  Like, it, like, the first time I bombed on a speech, I, it stuck with me in a way that I was embarrassed how much it stuck with me. I was like, this doesn't matter, nobody's dying, we're totally fine, and also, I may be terrible, everything's falling apart, this is the worst moment. Like, did it really sit with you? I get why people are scared of public speaking.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I text my, you're only as good as your last at bat, you know?

• 59:08Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  And I text my friend that night, and she's a singer, amazing singer, out of Vegas, and I text her and I just was like, I feel awful. And she was like, why? And I said, I just literally bombed at this event, and I just didn't, it was bad. And she had seen me before and she's like, really? I was like, yeah. I don't buy, like, it didn't really happen, but like, I bombed, and I go, you know, what is it like when, when, you know, this happens to you? She texts back, honey, I never bombed.

• 59:39Codie Sanchez?

  That's what everybody says. I don't buy it. I do not buy it.

• 59:43Speaker 01

  No, not at all, not at all.

• 59:44Codie Sanchez?

  Everybody's had that moment onstage.

• 59:46Speaker 01

  And the only way to, the only way- is to keep going and do the next game.

• 59:51Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, that is the only way.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  And that's what actually

• 59:53Codie Sanchez?

  Wasn't that next one hard, though? I got nervous. I never get nervous. For the next speech, I was like, fuck, you weren't?

• 59:58Speaker 01

  I wasn't nervous. I don't remember that. I just was like, get me out of here.

• 1:00:02Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:02Speaker 01

  And so now, I mean, I just was in Miami and I drove by the, for it's at the event and I drove by the fight and I'm like, there it is. Like, that will sit forever. Yeah, but you know, this actually kind of reminds me of what Tim Kennedy and Bill Perkins are all talking about at Main Show over Wall Street, right? They're all talking about this idea of suffering. They always talk about this idea of like, keep going. It's the persistence. It's the relentlessness of, of the, of the end goal of keep going. If you, if you are going to allow something, a failure, I don't even use that word. I hate when people use that word. Oh, I had this failure. I failed here. It's like, no, no, you, maybe you had an expensive lesson.

• 1:00:39Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  Maybe you had an emotional lesson. But that word failure, I, I never would use it. Like, I never use the word stress. I would never say, I'm stressed, I have anxiety. That, that doesn't, that doesn't sit in my vocabulary. I don't ever verbalize that. It's like, okay, yeah, I feel that there's some intensity here or there might be some, you know, energy. I need to, you know, focus on something. But I just don't like that language. And if someone faces an obstacle or a failure, right? And that's it? Well, how can you ever be successful? How can you ever accomplish anything? You know, like, that doesn't make sense to me.

• 1:01:17Codie Sanchez?

  Wow, I mean, and also, I mean, I think it's, it's all the scientific experiment, right? You know, like, everything in business is just how fast can I make mistakes that won't kill me? So that I can learn the next lesson?

• 1:01:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:01:28Codie Sanchez?

  And move forward in the game? You know, that's it. It's like, don't

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  Fail fast.

• 1:01:32Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, yeah. And, and, and, and I think it's not even fail. It's just like, make mistakes fast, then don't give up. And don't place that much emotional intention on them, one way or the other.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  Right, it's like, a lot of times people, if they say something, like, get a bad review or, oh, that sucked. If you take that to heart, I remember, oh, my gosh, I got the worst review once. Oh, my gosh, I, I, I got the magazine, I framed it. So I remember like this guy, I was reading the review and I'm like, this guy sucks. I'm like, I'd hate to be him, and it was me. It was in a magazine, so I toured with, I toured as the ringmaster for Ringling Brothers Bonita Circus. I was 23 years old, you know, one of the youngest guys in history to ever do it. And I'm not 6'4", middle-aged with a big booming baritone voice, right?

• 1:02:23Speaker 01

  And the producers of the show told me like, we're gonna, but this show's only gonna work with your energy. You know, you, you don't have that voice to capture everybody, it's your energy. So I'm running around the arena with energy, alright, let's go, New York City. You know, like, that kind of an idea. So I got this review in a magazine, a circus magazine, which, let's be honest, probably has a subscription level about, you know, 58, but the point is, they wrote about me like, they're like, this guy's, you know, not a ringmaster, he's, you know, awful, he has no presence, he has no nothing or anything.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  And I was 23, and I read this thing and I was like, wow, I'm awful to them. And I accepted the fact that I'm not in their taste.

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  Like, I don't like heavy metal, not because heavy metal musicians aren't good, it's just, that's not my taste.

• 1:03:22Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  Right? And so, you're not gonna be everyone's taste, and you have to be okay with that, right? You have to be okay with knowing that those people don't like me, and the reason they don't like me is because I'm not a traditional ringmaster, right? And then it wasn't till a few months later, they had like people from this club that all come in and people who wrote at the magazine and all the other things, they came and they kind of met me and us, and I talked to them and I said, you know what? And in my head, I'm thinking, I read what you wrote about me, you know? But instead, I said, you know what, it is such an honor to be a part of this tradition, and being it in a way that, that I felt welcomed, and I appreciate that. And afterwards, I could see the crowd go, I like this kid, right?

• 1:04:06Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  And so, that, that's how that works, but you, you can't let failures or even praises, you know, determine your outlook on what you want to do, what you want to accomplish, where you want to go in life, because, you know, it's just... Be good, be the best that you can, you know, maximize your potential.

• 1:04:22Codie Sanchez?

  I could actually see you as a ringmaster. I feel like, did they do a version of that now? Was that Hugh Jackman? Who was the ringmaster of Circus?

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was, he played, yeah.

• 1:04:30Codie Sanchez?

  He's like, got a similar energy. I guess he is kind of a big guy.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's a big guy.

• 1:04:34Codie Sanchez?

  But he's got the smile and the...

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:37Codie Sanchez?

  Which you have too.

• 1:04:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would say that, well, Circus changed me. It really was. I didn't go to college, right? I went to, you know, I went to the best college for the entertainment world. So at twenty years old, I started touring with Disney for three years, and I toured with Ringling Brothers for two years.

• 1:04:53Codie Sanchez?

  What'd you do when you were touring with Disney?

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  I was in a show called Disney Live: Mickey's Magic Show.

• 1:04:58Codie Sanchez?

  What'd you play?

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  I was, no, I wasn't a character.

• 1:05:00Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, no. You say this like, obviously, you know the show, here's the character set.

• 1:05:06Speaker 01

  No, I was doing magic on stage with Disney characters. So it was a magic-themed Disney show.

• 1:05:10Codie Sanchez?

  I immediately thought you were Mickey Mouse.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:05:13Codie Sanchez?

  So you were Alex.

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  The first time I was ever too tall for anything was Too Tall to Make a Man. Which Disney's gonna hate, um, that I said that. Anyways, um, oh man, that's another conversation. Anyways, the point is this. I toured for five years, um, all over the world, and I didn't go to college. I went to tour with Disney at twenty. Then by then, I'm done with Ringling Brothers, I was twenty-five, had all this experience. And performing millions and thousands of shows, millions of people, thousands of shows. And I didn't know what to do, because no one's booking me. Because most entertainers, it's either like, most entertainers are giggers. They gig work, right? They do a show here, a show here, you're booking them for this gig and that gig. And no one was calling me to book me anymore, because I'd been gone for five years touring. But the experience I had was what?

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  Was commanding an audience of thousands at a time. Being on TV shows, doing interviews, pitching a product, which was tickets.

• 1:06:06Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  And so when I got off the road, I was like, I guess I sell tickets to my show. And that's actually how I began the producing game. So I've produced my own show now for fifteen years. And so I don't, no one produces it myself. That's like, I have the contracts and the leases with the casinos, and the billboards, and the advertising, and all that. Those are my contracts, my payroll, my everything else. Most entertainers are getting a paycheck and then they go thanks and they, you know, they leave. And so, but Ringling kind of opened my eyes to that. And it changed who I was as a person, individual. It demanded so much of me to just grow. So at twenty-three, it was like, okay, I have the keys to this circus. I'm the one in charge and I took that.

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I took that responsibility very seriously. And so, you know, at twenty-three and there's a cast of over a hundred. You know, we traveled with three hundred people at a time. It was like a little town moving around. Lived on the circus train. It was amazing, amazing.

• 1:07:03Codie Sanchez?

  An actual train?

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:05Codie Sanchez?

  Wow. What's the craziest circus story you have? I didn't even know this about you.

• 1:07:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, um, craziest? Well, I wouldn't say the craziest. Let's go to the most embarrassing.

• 1:07:19Speaker 01

  We were in Texas. We were in Corpus Christi, Texas. Hurricane Alex was coming through. There was a leak in the venue. And there was this puddle in the middle of the arena floor. And I'm the guy with six Super Trooper spotlights on me. And I'm like, let's go, whatever, saying my lines, get them going and I'm running.

• 1:07:41Codie Sanchez?

  You have a cane and a hat and the whole outfit?

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  I didn't have a cane and a hat, but I had these really amazing set of tails. The jacket was incredible. It was amazing. I'll show you a photo. Anyhow, I'm running at the beginning of the show. And I jump off this platform. I land on the puddle. And I just start barrel rolling down the arena floor.

• 1:08:00Codie Sanchez?

  No.

• 1:08:00Speaker 01

  And nothing sucks the cool out of you.

• 1:08:02Codie Sanchez?

  Like a barrel.

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  Rolling on the ground and my tails were over my head. And I'm like getting up, like.

• 1:08:09Codie Sanchez?

  What do you do?

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  You get up and you keep going, like, what are you gonna do? And so that was really embarrassing, but yeah.

• 1:08:15Codie Sanchez?

  Oh my god. Do you have all the animals too? Are there like tigers and bears?

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  There's tigers and we had elephants. Ringling Brothers since had, it was an old business model. And they, they're on the train, they had animals. A lot of people, you know, got, you know, upset with the animals. I personally can only tell you, I never saw any animals mistreated. I can only say from personal experience. Whether animals should be in shows or not, that's a different debate. But as far as the treatment, I, I personally never saw any animals mistreated.

• 1:08:42Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:42Speaker 01

  Ringling Brothers just reopened and now they have, they changed the formula.

• 1:08:47Codie Sanchez?

  Okay.

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  No animals, no ringmaster, no train. It's a little bit different. It's an exciting show. I was on that.

• 1:08:52Codie Sanchez?

  Who owns that?

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:08:55Codie Sanchez?

  Is that private equity backed?

• 1:08:56Speaker 01

  No, it's a private company Feld Entertainment is about worth about three billion dollars.

• 1:09:00Codie Sanchez?

  Whoa.

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  One man and his daughters own it. They bought Ringling Brothers Circus, who knows fifty something years ago. Feld Entertainment is a parent company of Disney on Ice, Ringling Brothers, Barnum Bailey Circus, Monster Jam, Supercross, Motocross, all the big arena and stadium shows. It's Feld Entertainment. And that's actually where I really learned about business and the business part of the show business, right? And here's something that, I love this story. I love this story. And this happened with my friend. So the owner and CEO of Feld Entertainment at the time was a man named Kenneth Feld. And my friend was sitting with him at a show. I don't know if it was Circus or Disney on Ice, it was some show, and they have intermission. And there's people selling popcorn, cotton

• 1:09:45Speaker 01

  candy, and those lightups, you know, the little wand that spin around with lights and all that stuff.

• 1:09:50Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, I used to love that shit as a kid.

• 1:09:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, you love it, right?

• 1:09:52Codie Sanchez?

  Totally.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  And my friend said that Kenneth, they're sitting at intermission, they're looking around, they're seeing all these spinny lights going around, and Kenneth goes, "You see that light?" He goes, "Yeah." He goes, "Now, these are arbitrary numbers, arbitrary numbers, but the point will be made." So that, that cost us two dollars and twenty-five cents to make. We sell it for ten bucks. But I just bought the factory, and now it costs us two dollars and seventeen cents per light. It's like an extra, like, cool, two million dollars a year or something, like.

• 1:10:27Codie Sanchez?

  I love that. And when he sees the lights, he sees money.

• 1:10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right. And so that was a first, again arbitrary numbers. Nicole's probably gonna text me and be like, "Uh, why did you say that on the podcast?" So, but the point is made, is that he was such a smart businessman, and the Felds were incredible to work with and work for. I consulted on some of their productions, and they're incredible, incredible people. Anyhow, that kind of opened my eyes to business and acquisition, and how they made their money, and the merch, and everything else, because that's ended up what I did, right? With you as being the, um, the...

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  The person that really also told me to go after it, I mean, I really, I found your content on, online. You know, your YouTube videos and Instagram videos, and then I joined Contrarian Thinking. And you told me something that was like sage advice, Cody. And you just said, because I'm like, I know showbiz, I know entertainment, you know, I don't know anything about laundromats or HVACs.

• 1:11:29Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  And you said, well, look at what you're spending the most money on. And not just try and acquire something to gain the cash flow, but also acquire something that's going to reduce your costs. And I'm like, duh. And I sell merch, shirts and hats after my shows.

• 1:11:45Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:45Speaker 01

  And so I ended up acquiring a screen print embroidery company. And it was just the exact formula that Feld Entertainment does, is they own these, these businesses that only serve as verticals to what they're doing, which is their base, which for me is, is shows.

• 1:12:00Codie Sanchez?

  And now you make all of our merch.

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  And now I make all your merch. And, uh, you know, biz stuff.

• 1:12:05Codie Sanchez?

  What's the name of the company?

• 1:12:06Speaker 01

  Innovative Imprints.

• 1:12:07Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, we'll put it in the show notes. It's, it's incredible. I mean, I think that's the most beautiful way to do business.

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:12Codie Sanchez?

  Is you do a thing that you already love, and you figure out how to make more money surrounding the thing that you love. And then if you're a pro like you, you buy the company that is already doing the thing as opposed to having to start it up. So I think it's, it's really cool. I loved that story.

• 1:12:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just.

• 1:12:25Codie Sanchez?

  And I bet when you talk to magicians, they're like, what the fuck are you talking about?

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 1:12:28Codie Sanchez?

  You bought a merch company, you own all your rights, like, that's really rare. But guess what? Now you have all the middlemen out of it. You don't need the agent, you are the agent.

• 1:12:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:12:38Codie Sanchez?

  You know, you don't need the manager, you don't need a third-party merch company, it's you.

• 1:12:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, and I actually, it's funny because I did, um, one of the largest magic conventions in the world was in Las Vegas, and we did some print for, for them, some work for them. And then I had a booth just saying, hey, here's what I'm doing. A lot of people walk in by the booth. They didn't know it was my booth, number one. And they saw me, they're like, hey, what are you doing? I go, oh, this is my booth, I own the company. And they're like, oh, so you're not performing anymore? And I'm like, yeah, I am, like, you know, this is my side hustle. My side hustle happens to be, you know, some bigger figure business, but like, hey, you know, it's fun. And, but it's, it's really cool. And I have magicians who I consult, they, I don't really have a mastermind or anything like that, but there's a lot of magicians who will regularly, regularly schedule like Zoom calls with me to ask about advice and,

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  and things about growing their, their business and performing. And so I think entertainers are notoriously awful with money.

• 1:13:33Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:33Speaker 01

  They're just, that's why we hear so many actors, athletes, you know, all these celebrities, and they're broke. And you're like, how did that happen? First of all, that is just such mismanagement and just, it's sad because people, or a lot of it is living beyond your means, but also just not being smart enough to know how to handle it. And people think like, well, here's, here's an entertainer's strategy, right? Strategy on money. I'm going to get famous enough to where I make enough money that I don't have to worry about money.

• 1:14:05Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  That's like the worst strategy ever. It's not even a strategy. It's a, it's a, it's a dream. It's a fantasy.

• 1:14:12Codie Sanchez?

  Did you watch the Vince McMahon documentary?

• 1:14:14Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:14:14Codie Sanchez?

  Oh my God, you gotta watch it. First of all, fucking crazy. That guy, that, like the stories about that.

• 1:14:19Speaker 01

  I've seen like little excerpts from it, but I haven't watched the whole thing.

• 1:14:21Codie Sanchez?

  It's so good. I think I'm only like three or four episodes in. I don't know if I'll watch the rest, but the first part is fascinating because that dude, I get why he is a billionaire multiple times over with the WWE. And I get now, I wouldn't do it all the same ethically, but it would be so funny. He'd be like, he's talking in the interview, you know, and he'd be like, um, you know, well, what was happening on stage, because he was one of the very first entertainers that was also the owner while simultaneously performing.

• 1:14:47Speaker 01

  Being a character.

• 1:14:47Codie Sanchez?

  Like that, that doesn't exist.

• 1:14:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:49Codie Sanchez?

  And so he would be saying, well, at the time we bought this company, we're doing X, Y, Z. And then on stage, you know, the idea was I was having an affair, you know, with my mistress and whatever. And he's like storyline, because he was talking about that's, that's not real life. That was part of this character set. Um, but what I thought was fascinating is looking at their business model. I mean, they owned everything. They owned the rights, you know, they owned all the licensing, they have royalties on all their gears, they've bought their competitors. And despite him being a little bit of A crazy person.

• 1:15:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:15:18Codie Sanchez?

  Brilliant execution and we don't see that enough in entertainment. So I think that's so interesting.

• 1:15:22Speaker 01

  Not at all.

• 1:15:22Codie Sanchez?

  It's such a good watch. That and the Martha Stewart documentary are incredible.

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, those, those are really, really, because so people can get, so many people can get like caught up with what you're saying, kind of like the ethics of things like, oh, I don't like that guy. It's like, okay, let's remove him for a second and see what he does, see how he does it, see what the execution is, see his thought process, right? Because we're not going to agree with everybody all the time and that's no, you know, it's not defending him in any way because I haven't even seen the documentary, but, but definitely it was for me, one of these obvious acquisitions and these verticals that now that my deal box and what I only look at is something that's going to serve the foundation of what I do, which is entertainment and showbiz. So all of my acquisitions are verticals as opposed to going, well, what can I do now? What can I do now? And being split and divided, it makes sense. I'm familiar.

• 1:16:11Speaker 01

  I'm aware this is going to serve me this way. And I also love, uh, do you know the story about Jay Leno?

• 1:16:19Codie Sanchez?

  No, tell me.

• 1:16:21Speaker 01

  This, I saw Jay Leno do an interview or read an interview about this and I was mind blown and I'm like, Jay Leno is a genius and my, you know, like heroes. So Jay Leno, so he was the host of The Tonight Show for over 20 years, like 22 years, I think, something like this. He's never spent a dime of his Tonight Show money. And in 20 years, he was paid over $300 million. So he began his career as a comedian, but he also worked at like a car dealership, right? Because we know him now. He loves collecting cars and he has his Jay Leno's garage and all this stuff. He has hundreds of cars and motorcycles and whatnot. So when he was beginning his career,

• 1:17:02Speaker 01

  he would pay all his bills with comedy, right? And the dealership was the money he banked. Okay, that was his side hustle. That was his thing. Then as he got more and more famous, he realized, well, I can also afford my lifestyle with the cars and selling them, buying them, collecting them, whatever it is, and that can pay my bills. So he began to save all of his performance money. So by the time he got The Tonight Show, He was paying all his bills and he was living just off of the cars.

• 1:17:35Codie Sanchez?

  Wow.

• 1:17:36Speaker 01

  And he still did gigs though, and he still did shows. So even at The Tonight Show, he would regularly do comedy clubs, even when he had The Tonight Show. And it's this idea that, you know, we all have multiple streams of income, multiple streams, right? Have all these things. It's like, I love that. After you, I don't want streams. I want a river, right? Like, so let's get your river first. Once you have a river, then get your other streams. And I think that so often people try and just they hear this buzzword from, you know, whether it's influencers, whatever it is, we need streams. It's like, yeah, that's after a certain point. Once you can, you know, once you know how to handle money, once you know what you're gonna do with it, then, then you, you know, diversify.

• 1:18:18Codie Sanchez?

  I love that. I kinda wanna close out with two things. One is, we haven't talked a ton about negotiation, but you're very good at it. I wanna talk a little bit about reframing and maybe Taylor Swift.

• 1:18:28Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:18:31Speaker 01

  I love that Taylor Swift story. I knew that was coming. So reframing is essentially a negotiation. And the idea is this, if I present you with a deal point and you have an objection, okay, the reframe is to present you another option while addressing your objection, but still making the same request. I'm still getting the same point, right? That's a part of the negotiation. So here's what happened with Taylor. I'm working, consulting with Taylor Swift on Blank Space. And it was for her world premiere performance on the American Music Awards.

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  And so this production company in LA, they called me to consult on this performance and they wanted this magic effect. And so what I came up with was the flaming rose. The flaming rose essentially was, she had this beautiful red rose burst into flames and it was stayed beautiful and pristine. She grabbed a pedal from the rose, touched the fire. She's holding fire in one hand, the rose on fire in the other. It's amazing. You know, Buzzfeed named her the top moments of the AMAs. It was really great.

• 1:19:38Speaker 01

  At the end rehearsals not so great. So what happened? I came in and the first day I'm teaching her how to do this trick. It's not working. Like I can do it, but it's not working for her. And that's no knock at her. It's just that the prop wasn't and it it's less of it's more of a special effect than a magic trick. Okay. And it's just not working. She's moving and she's walking. There's people around her. There's a lot going on. It's just not working. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And they're coming over to me like, hey, what's going on? Right? Like they're they're paying me. I'm consulting. This is a big deal. This needs to work. Why is it not working? And immediately I have to reframe the situation. So instead of going like, hey, Alex, this isn't working. What's going on here?

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  What I as soon as they came over, I'm like, okay, I need to own it. And they say, hey, Alex, it's not working. I said, I know, I don't want it to work. They go, I go, I don't want it to work. I said, I want it to fail all during rehearsals. That's what rehearsals are for. So that way we troubleshoot all those things and it works on Saturday. I don't care if it works today. It has to work Saturday. And I'm like, we gotta fix this thing. So that night.

• 1:20:56Codie Sanchez?

  I am totally gonna use that.

• 1:20:58Speaker 01

  That night I'm like.

• 1:20:58Codie Sanchez?

  Tanner's like taking notes for every time I'm yelling about YouTube.

• 1:21:02Speaker 01

  You like that? Now you know where she got it from. And so I was like, oh, man. And that night I'm like, we gotta fix this thing. And so, okay, day two, day three, it's working. Okay. And so finally got through that first bit. Recording one of the rehearsals. Dancers are there, all the things. She now does the trick, the rose on fire, her hand, she's holding fire and she goes, ah, and drops this thing. Now it goes without saying, there's a little gimmick in her hand that allows her to hold fire.

• 1:21:28Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:29Speaker 01

  She burned her hand.

• 1:21:30Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, shit.

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  She drops this thing.

• 1:21:32Codie Sanchez?

  You burned Taylor Swift?

• 1:21:34Speaker 01

  I by indirectly.

• 1:21:38Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, my God, the internet's coming for you.

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  So what happens is she drops this gimmick on the stake, on the ground of the rehearsal studio. The floor is on fire. One of the dancers is stomping it out. The playback stops the playback. Everyone's going, oh, oh, and I'm just sitting there going.

• 1:21:55Speaker 01

  And I'm like, they're gonna fire me. They're gonna fire me. And so now there's like thirty people surrounding Taylor and I hear Alex. I'm like, oh my gosh. She's like, Alex, did you? And I kind of walk into the circle and I'm like, oh my gosh, they're gonna fire me. She goes, did you put more lighter fluid on this? Cause it was so much more hot that time, like it was really hot, not like the other time. And I'm like, they're gonna, they're gonna cut this. Cause it didn't work the other day. Now it's working, now she burned her hand. Like, they're gonna pull this.

• 1:22:30Speaker 01

  So first I said, are you okay? Number one, are you okay? Like physically, let me see your hand. Like I want, you're fine? Do you need attention? Do you need medical assistance? What do you need? She goes, no, I'm fine, I'm fine. I said, okay. And since I knew they were gonna pull, they were gonna cut it, I cut it. So I was like, first of all, you know, you're holding this incorrectly. There's a lot going on and you need to hold it this way, like I told you to. But you have a lot going on. This is, this is really too difficult for you. I said, we need to give you something easier that you can do. Cause you're having a lot of trouble with this. It's just a little too hard. And maybe something easier is better for you. So we could do something easier. We'll, we'll cut this, we'll do something else.

• 1:23:15Speaker 01

  And if you tell somebody who is that accomplished and that amazing and that talented, this is too hard for you.

• 1:23:26Speaker 01

  And she goes, no, I could do it. I go, I don't know. I think this is, we need something easier. We need something definitely easier for you, cause this is too much.

• 1:23:34Speaker 01

  Well, in supposed to them pulling it and me losing the gig, I did. Why? Well, it shifts the frame of what's going on. So then she says, no, no, I could do it. Everybody leaves. And you know, they go, let's take fifteen and they all leave. And then like, you know, choreographer and director comes in, they go, what is going on? And I said, look, she knows her song. It's a hit. She doesn't need to practice that. She knows the choreography, the dancer knows the choreography. She's just not focused on this because she has so many other things going on. And so everybody left and for probably two days, for an hour, two hours a day, it was like me, Taylor, and Chris just rehearsing this. It was just the three of us. They released everybody. I said, "You need to get everybody away. We just need to drill this."

• 1:24:20Speaker 01

  And so they did. And so what ends up happening is I said to her, I said, "You know, you need to do everything with intention. Everything with intention." And so we rehearsed it. It worked great. That night, probably, if you want to talk about nerves, the most nervous I've ever been in my career was like this, because like, I'm not doing it. I can't do anything. And so Taylor, they had her in this like table and they're flying her up like 20 feet in the air. And I have this rose and I preset it and they're like, "You need to clear the stage." I was like, "No." I said, "I'm the last person off this stage. You have a problem, talk to her." Like, you know, "I need to set this. It is so exact." And so like I'm waiting there and she's like ready to go. It's like ripe pit bulls like, "All right, welcome to the..." You know, and I'm sitting there on stage and I go,

• 1:25:02Speaker 01

  "Taylor?" And she looked at me, she goes, "With intention, with intention, with intention." And I go, "Oh, my gosh, you're amazing." I was like, "You know, it's an honor to work with you. You know, you deserve everything you have. You're gonna kill it. Amazing." And she goes, "Oh, my gosh." And so, you know, she did it. It went great. People loved it. And, um, but, but those are examples of how to take a situation and own it, right? But it does take a certain skill to be able to do that quickly. Be able to anticipate what the other person, be it a seller or somebody you're negotiating with, what they're anticipating, what they're thinking. See, because in magic, the best way to fool you is know everything that you're thinking. See, if I know what you're thinking,

• 1:25:47Speaker 01

  I know how to fool you, because I know what you're suspecting. So magicians have clever ways to create a reality, a perceived reality, for their audience to be forced to think a certain way, right? And so that way, once I take you down that path, I lead you down that rabbit hole, I know, well, I can fool you this way because I already know what you're thinking. And so it's anticipating what a seller or someone, whoever you're negotiating with is going to object to. A lot of my contract, a lot of my contract negotiations with casinos or different producers or promoters in, in, in shows.

• 1:26:25Speaker 01

  Whenever we're in the negotiation, I always anticipate all of the oppositions. So like, I want more money. Well, I'm not going to present why I want more money. I'm going to present and prepare based off of why are all the reasons they're going to say no to that. So if I know all their counter arguments, then I'm better prepared to them, you know? It's just like, um, knowing, um, oh my gosh, I just forgot the, the, the book with.

• 1:26:55Codie Sanchez?

  Chris Voss?

• 1:26:56Speaker 01

  Nah, well, Chris Voss, but, um, it's the, oh my gosh, I just blanked.

• 1:27:02Codie Sanchez?

  It's not Never Split the Difference, okay?

• 1:27:03Speaker 01

  Not Never Split the Difference, no, I love that book, that's great. But it was, um, Art of War.

• 1:27:07Codie Sanchez?

  Oh yeah, Sun Tzu.

• 1:27:08Speaker 01

  Sun Tzu, right, Art of War, right? Is that know the enemy, know the oppositions first. Before you present your case, I learned this in speech and debate when I was in high school. The best class I ever took, creative communications. And so it was me presenting all their oppositions, knocking them off. Because most people are always playing, you know, offense and they're going, well, this is why I'm right. This is why I'm right, this is why I'm right. So one of my negotiations with a promoter for a casino one time looked like this is that, I said, okay. Um, and I learned, as I came in and I said, this is, this is what I want, X amount. And they were like, no. They just said flat out, they go, no. But I was prepared, I go, well, you're thinking that you're going to pay that.

• 1:27:51Speaker 01

  No, you're not going to pay that, I don't want to take money out of your pocket. That's not what we're going to do. This is how we're going to structure. This is how we're actually going to do the ticket prices. These are going to be the levels, these are going to how it's going to be, and da, da, da, da, da. Based off of ticket sales, based off of our sales reports, based off of this many, the years that we have. And the volume of whatever the season now, like, I did all the calculations and I said, and this is without, you know, any growth. And we already saw like a 17% growth in ticket sales from year one to year two. So essentially, I'll get what I want and I just made you X amount more dollars. So I don't want you to pay for that for me. Now, what I learned is I need to lead with that. Rather than just saying what I want right away. Because I said this is what I want and they were immediately turned off. Then I addressed them.

• 1:28:36Speaker 01

  And they're already in that

• 1:28:37Codie Sanchez?

  They're dug into their position.

• 1:28:39Speaker 01

  They're entrenched. Right. And what I should have done is saying, hey, here's the idea that I think will make us both happy.

• 1:28:44Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:45Speaker 01

  If we do this, da, da, da, da, da. Essentially, I'll make this and you'll make that. That's the better way. I should have done it. But that was a learning curve and I did that when I was like 26.

• 1:28:56Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:57Speaker 01

  You know, and that was like really an early on negotiation, one of the first negotiations I had with a promoter and a residency. And so those things, um, you know.

• 1:29:06Codie Sanchez?

  You've lived such a fascinating life. What question have I not asked you that you think I should? What stories should I be asking for that I haven't asked you about?

• 1:29:15Speaker 01

  Well, I love the idea of misog and you've talked about this a lot, right? It's this Japanese, this idea, this culture idea that says you need to do something that's really difficult and challenging for you every year. Something that the probability of you failing

• 1:29:32Codie Sanchez?

  Sure.

• 1:29:33Speaker 01

  is high. Maybe 49%, you know, maybe 10, but, but it's possible that you're not going to be able to accomplish this goal. And I started doing this years ago and I didn't, without realizing it, because I never heard of that. And then someone brought it up and I go, oh my gosh, fascinating. And something that I did a couple of years ago was the most difficult and challenging stunt of my career. I did an escape called Cold Shock. A 100 pound weighted vest was chained and shackled to my body. I was then dropped into 39 degree ice water. And I had to hold my breath in the ice water and pick three locks, remove the locks, remove the vest underwater

• 1:30:16Speaker 01

  and then come back up to breathe again. And originally my idea was I'm gonna fake it. I'm gonna get some fake ice, you know, we'll give it the thermometer, whatever. Because I've done, I've done underwater escapes. We're gonna livestream it. Like, we'll just fake it, right? And then as I looked into it, as I looked into it, it's like, well, fake ice, it's acrylic, it sinks, it doesn't float. Oh, okay. So I went to Movie Production House in Burbank that was like, or Van Nuys, and they like did all of the movies that Pirates of the Caribbean, 007, any ice and snow thing, this is the company. I was like, so I want to do this set. And then he's like, well, you can get this perifin wax and set it, dress it up like this, or, oh, here's this really good

• 1:31:01Speaker 01

  stuff that looks exactly like ice, but it was like rubber. I go, but the problem with that is that it doesn't sound, because it's rubber. And then also, it kind of disintegrates.

• 1:31:11Codie Sanchez?

  Oh.

• 1:31:12Speaker 01

  I go, this is going to cost me how much money to do this thing. And I'm just thinking about this, because I had this idea, like, what if an underwater escape, what if like, the least, the easiest part of the underwater escape is holding your breath underwater, right? Because everybody's like, oh, my gosh, you're underwater for two minutes, three minutes, whatever it is. What if that's the easy part? So I thought this cold, this ice water challenge, and I spoke with some guys, and they said, I've never heard anybody doing this before. So I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna fake it. And then I realized, I think I have to do this. And I remember telling my friend Jim, and I said, I think I have to train for this. And he said, you're kidding. I was like, no, I really think I have to train for this. And I'd been doing underwater escapes, like I said, for years, but the cold exposure, I started training, and it took, I trained for

• 1:31:55Speaker 01

  about 10 months. And I used Wim Hof breathing techniques. But Wim Hof isn't good for breath holds.

• 1:32:01Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, that would be really bad.

• 1:32:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:03Codie Sanchez?

  For breath holds.

• 1:32:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:32:05Codie Sanchez?

  Die immediately.

• 1:32:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And so I actually contacted a like, a level three Wim Hof, he was near me in Lake Tahoe, and I told him what I wanted to do, and he turned me down. Because I said, I just want to train with you. He goes, what are you doing? I go, I want to do it for this. He goes, no. And refused to work with me. And I'm like, bro, like, I just need the cold exposure. I'm not, I'm gonna do freediving techniques, which is different for the breath hold, but the cold exposure, I need these. He just, nope. And I was like, Am I crazy like and what ends up happening is I do the stunt, we livestream it. It's on YouTube somewhere and um somewhere it's on my channel, it's on YouTube and um. And I was underwater.

• 1:32:42Codie Sanchez?

  We'll link it on the YouTube video too.

• 1:32:43Speaker 01

  I was underwater a little over two minutes, but the point of this was so many people asked me. Why are you doing this? Like what what's the point? And the most obvious answer is to say, well, marketing publicity, right? I'm doing a stunt to get some eyes. It's like, that's not why I was doing it. The reason why I did it is because I had this idea in my head. And I thought, I have to try this, I have to do this. And I actually secretly love when people go. You can't do that. Right? There's no way. Why would you do that? That's crazy. You're gonna be tired. You're this. Something I always said, even when I was on circus and I was working and I was performing and and three show days. Doing all these things and people go, are you tired?

• 1:33:28Speaker 01

  I say, not yet. I said, not yet. There's a time to be tired. And it doesn't mean I don't rest. But. That was the whole idea and so. I did Cold Shock because I couldn't not do it. Right? And if I had any life philosophy. Uh it would be this. Said, I wake up. Literally, I wake up every day thinking. The greatest thing that I'm gonna accomplish in my life. I haven't even done yet. And if you live that way with that excitement, that enthusiasm. You're like, I wonder what I'm gonna do now. Oh, man. I'm super stoked, right? You're launching a book and you're like, my book's about to come out right now, all the focus and you're so excited. And one day.

• 1:34:13Speaker 01

  This big book launch that you're you're about to release, Main Street Millionaire, right? Is gonna be. One of the least of your credits.

• 1:34:20Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, it's like cool.

• 1:34:22Speaker 01

  How cool is that? So I don't even, like you just said, like. Like, I didn't even know you did Ringling. I was like, I don't even credit that anymore. Because I've done, but yet it was huge.

• 1:34:31Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, it's not on the first page of the resume.

• 1:34:32Speaker 01

  It's not on the first page of the resume.

• 1:34:33Codie Sanchez?

  I love that idea. You have a resume so long that the first page is almost. It's it's only your last couple of years.

• 1:34:41Speaker 01

  Right? And. That's only comes from pushing, I think.

• 1:34:45Codie Sanchez?

  Could you have died doing that stunt?

• 1:34:48Speaker 01

  So what ended up happening, well, I wouldn't have died because I had paramedics there. Um, so we set it up, but I did speak with-

• 1:34:54Codie Sanchez?

  What do you mean you wouldn't have died? Like, couldn't you have drowned and they couldn't have gotten you out fast enough?

• 1:34:59Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, you're not going to drown that fast.

• 1:35:00Codie Sanchez?

  No.

• 1:35:01Speaker 01

  What would have happened, here was the biggest challenge was that when you're in that cold of water, you have about anywhere from two to five minutes before all of the blood leaves your extremities and covers your vital organs. So the, the most difficult part wasn't a race to see how long I could hold my breath and get out. The race and the challenge came, how long is it going to take until I start losing mobility in my extremities?

• 1:35:28Codie Sanchez?

  Ah, and fast because you gotta use your little fingers.

• 1:35:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:35:31Codie Sanchez?

  Oh my god.

• 1:35:32Speaker 01

  So, the first time I rehearsed, what we did is we had the water level about, about to my eyebrow level, and so if I ran into trouble, I could just lift my head up and breathe. And so I had a safety partner training with me all of, all through training. Uh, my brother-in-law Blake was there and he was amazing guy. He's like Chris, dude, like they would be best friends. And so Blake, uh, was there and it was so cold and immediate that I couldn't feel the keyhole to put the pick inside the keyhole. And I had this big weighted vest on and I couldn't feel it. So I'm under there and I start panicking because I'm just like, wait, I can't even, I can't even begin, I can't even start. And I lift my head up and I go, get me out of here.

• 1:36:17Speaker 01

  And like, we have video in one of the training, like he literally, you know, he's a big guy and so he literally, and he's like lifting me out of this, this tank of ice water. And I'm like, I can't feel anything. And so I had to change and adapt the, and that was something that I wasn't expecting. I was like, okay, it's going to be cold, I need to be able to, and also ice floats. And so the coldest part of the entire tank was concentrated around my head.

• 1:36:38Codie Sanchez?

  Oh god.

• 1:36:39Speaker 01

  So you'd basically put an ice pack on your head, but it's literally ice on my skin. And so, um-

• 1:36:45Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, that feels awful because that's for like 30 seconds you could barely handle, oh.

• 1:36:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, I was underwater for a little over two minutes. I think it was like two fifteen or two twenty, something like that. And so I had to adjust that take, but that was something I wasn't accounting for. And I think the stunt was cool and all, but if there's a video of the training, the training video is actually more interesting than the stunt, if I can be honest. And so anyhow, um, no, I couldn't have died really because they could have reached in because there was no lid.

• 1:37:13Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:13Speaker 01

  I wasn't locked in, I was being held down.

• 1:37:16Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:37:16Speaker 01

  And so, um, it's like a diver, right? They have weights on them. So if you release the weights, you'll go back up.

• 1:37:21Codie Sanchez?

  Okay.

• 1:37:21Speaker 01

  So it would have been more about making sure that.

• 1:37:25Codie Sanchez?

  You still had fingers.

• 1:37:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:26Codie Sanchez?

  Like a small, tiny little detail.

• 1:37:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel it.

• 1:37:28Codie Sanchez?

  Does your family think you're fucking crazy? Like when you, when they, are they like, what did, what did we do to Alex when he was a young boy?

• 1:37:34Speaker 01

  My dad thinks it's great, but he's also very cautious. He's like, okay, be safe. My mom hates it.

• 1:37:38Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:39Speaker 01

  She'll, she'll like leave. Like if I do the water tank escape.

• 1:37:42Codie Sanchez?

  I think now even just being your friend, I think I'm out.

• 1:37:45Speaker 01

  I don't like it and she'll like leave. Um, yeah, but, but it goes back to those things where I'm like, I could do this, you know, and I like when people, part of what fuels me too is someone going, you can't do that. No one does that. And it's like, I'll almost prove it to you. This might be like, you know, I'm, I'm

• 1:38:10Speaker 01

  just, uh, maybe I'm just a little bit stubborn, but it's like, I'll almost prove it to you despite you.

• 1:38:17Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:38:18Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 1:38:18Codie Sanchez?

  I wasn't gonna do it, but now I'm doing it.

• 1:38:20Speaker 01

  Now I really am.

• 1:38:21Codie Sanchez?

  I've, I've got that same sickness. People are like, why do you keep doing the thing that you do? I'm like, I just think of all the things my haters have ever said and it just makes me want to be bigger and build more.

• 1:38:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and that's truly what it is. People are like, I'm doing a tour next spring, uh, called Fifty Fifty Fifty. I'm doing fifty shows in fifty states in fifty days.

• 1:38:41Codie Sanchez?

  Okay. That's, I'll take the ice bath, honestly, for the love of all that's holy.

• 1:38:47Speaker 01

  I did, um, uh, I did a few years ago when I turned thirty-five, a tour called Thirty-Five Thirty-Five. It was the same idea, thirty-five shows, thirty-five days, thirty-five different cities. And I was like, that was cool. Like my bird, I was like, I'm gonna do this thing. And then as soon as I came up with that, five years ago almost, um, I was like, Yeah, it'd be cool. Fifty, fifty, fifty. And I was like, how? Aw, man, now I gotta do it. So if I had the idea, I gotta do it. And I've told people this, and they go, that's insane. Fifty states in fifty days. And I'm like, people could do that. And there are people who have done like marathons like that. There are people who have done like bike rides in all states and do all these things. And it's like, why not? Why, why them?

• 1:39:30Speaker 01

  Why can't I be that person? Why can't you be that person? Why can't you be that person? You have something in mind? Do it. You're right, do it. Like, because again, the greatest thing you're gonna do in life, you haven't done yet. You haven't even done. So how exciting is that?

• 1:39:48Codie Sanchez?

  Yep, reason to keep living. All right, Alex Ramon, you're the man. Should we do a little magic?

• 1:39:53Speaker 01

  Okay, you wanna, okay, you wanna do, we never do a trick.

• 1:39:56Codie Sanchez?

  We have to do one, we have to do one trick.

• 1:39:59Speaker 01

  I think we're both long-winded, so we could be here all day.

• 1:40:01Codie Sanchez?

  I'm, I'm enjoying myself, honestly. It's not for them, it's for me.

• 1:40:04Speaker 01

  Let's do something.

• 1:40:05Codie Sanchez?

  What do you think?

• 1:40:06Speaker 01

  Okay. And we talk a lot about magic. Okay, we talk a lot about influence, suggestions. Okay? I have a deck of cards here. And I want you to think of a card in a deck of cards. But don't think of just the suit. Okay, think of the value, more importantly, the value. Ace, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, jack, queen, king, just the value, okay? I'm gonna try and suggest something to you with this value. I want you to think of a card that is an important card, maybe powerful, something strong, something like this, okay? But it could be any value you want. You can choose the two if you wanted, but something that you feel is a strong card that you're connected to. Okay, you have that value?

• 1:40:46Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:46Speaker 01

  You? Okay, and what is that value?

• 1:40:49Codie Sanchez?

  King.

• 1:40:49Speaker 01

  The king. The king! Not the ace?

• 1:40:52Codie Sanchez?

  I thought about the ace, too.

• 1:40:53Speaker 01

  You thought about the ace, but not, why, why not? Why not the king, why not the ace and the king?

• 1:40:58Codie Sanchez?

  Uh, because you said powerful, so I thought maybe it should be the king.

• 1:41:01Speaker 01

  Do you play cards?

• 1:41:03Codie Sanchez?

  No.

• 1:41:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, you would be awful at poker, because

• 1:41:06Codie Sanchez?

  Because that's not the highest value.

• 1:41:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's not the highest value. So, okay. A king.

• 1:41:11Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:11Speaker 01

  Now, what, what suit would go with that king?

• 1:41:15Codie Sanchez?

  Spades?

• 1:41:16Speaker 01

  King of spades?

• 1:41:17Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:17Speaker 01

  You could have chose the ace of spades, but

• 1:41:19Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, the ace of spades.

• 1:41:20Speaker 01

  No, no, no, it's okay, it's okay. Look, look, here's the deal. I was trying to suggest to you something.

• 1:41:24Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:25Speaker 01

  And obviously, I didn't do a good job.

• 1:41:27Codie Sanchez?

  Oh.

• 1:41:27Speaker 01

  Because I said powerful cards, and I was just hoping you would have said like an ace. Okay?

• 1:41:32Codie Sanchez?

  I thought about ace.

• 1:41:33Speaker 01

  You thought about the ace? No, well, I, what I did is I put all four aces face up, so in case any suit that you said, I was ready to go.

• 1:41:40Codie Sanchez?

  Shit!

• 1:41:41Speaker 01

  Okay? But see, I was suggesting that, that's the ace of diamonds. Um, and you said the king of spades. So, you could have said any ace, at all.

• 1:41:49Codie Sanchez?

  Uh huh.

• 1:41:50Speaker 01

  The most powerful cards, and you didn't.

• 1:41:51Codie Sanchez?

  Cause I don't know how to play cards.

• 1:41:53Speaker 01

  Well, you're not easily suggestible.

• 1:41:54Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, really?

• 1:41:55Speaker 01

  Or are you?

• 1:41:56Codie Sanchez?

  Probably.

• 1:41:57Speaker 01

  Because, these four aces, I turned face up in the deck. But they came from a different pack. They came from a red deck of cards. And I wrote on them. I wrote the...

• 1:42:10Codie Sanchez?

  Get out of town!

• 1:42:14Speaker 01

  Of...

• 1:42:16Codie Sanchez?

  Get out of town! What? I was so nervous that I fucked up the magic trick! You know this is my fear!

• 1:42:24Speaker 01

  So, so, uh, are you, are, is it easy to negotiate with Codie Sanchez?

• 1:42:29Codie Sanchez?

  Apparently, yes!

• 1:42:34Codie Sanchez?

  Remind me to never do a deal with you. God, that's so cool.

• 1:42:38Speaker 01

  I always come with a gift for you.

• 1:42:40Codie Sanchez?

  Here's the best, don't do that.

• 1:42:41Speaker 01

  No, I have something, and, um, I just noticed on your stories, that right now, Choose Your Heart is like what people are really resonating with, right? And because of that, I think, uh, getting a little Choose Your Heart gym towel...

• 1:42:58Codie Sanchez?

  This is sick.

• 1:43:00Speaker 01

  Choose Your Heart gym towel...

• 1:43:01Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, this is so good!

• 1:43:04Speaker 01

  So, we got...

• 1:43:05Codie Sanchez?

  And it clips on in my gym bag?

• 1:43:06Speaker 01

  It clips on the gym bag. We got a little like, you know, contrarian thinking, Atlas Man, Choose Your Heart.

• 1:43:13Codie Sanchez?

  Dude, I'm into this. Tell us in the YouTube comments if you guys think we should make merch with Choose Your Heart. Uh, and if you guys want one.