306. Are we addicted to chaos?

Do you feel as though you’re living in a constant whirlwind of deadlines, drama, and endless tasks, yet secretly feel a thrill from the chaos? This episode unpacks the question, ‘are we addicted to chaos?’ and why our brains might actually be drawn to this tumultuous state. We dive into the neurochemical rewards that hook us, how this plays out in our relationships and careers, and the hidden costs of living in perpetual overwhelm. We look at the deeper psychological roots and learn actionable steps to cultivate intentional calm amidst life's inevitable pressures. Things we discuss: • Why dopamine and adrenaline make chaos feel rewarding • The draw of novelty, intensity, and seeking stimulation • How chaos manifests in our lives • The hidden costs of chronic chaos • Psychological roots of our addiction to chaos • Actionable strategies to reclaim calm and redefine productivity in your twenties If your life feels like a constant fire drill, or you suspect you secretly thrive on the last-minute rush, this episode is for you. Listen to my NEW PODCAST, Mantra: https://open.spotify.com/show/4Ckds0BoJDDpODInN9cWcc?si=b6ad5d555c1940e0 Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast For business: [email protected] The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Jemma Sbeg?

  This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is, lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com.

• 0:41Jemma Sbeg?

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• 1:23Jemma Sbeg?

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• 2:07Jemma Sbeg?

  And something that has kept me really motivated is my Whoop. I am such a data person, which is why I love Whoop, because I can genuinely see why my body feels differently depending on the day, why I'm running differently, why I'm maybe less focused. Whoop effortlessly tracks my sleep, it tracks my strain, my recovery, my stress, and most importantly, my overall health. And it just gives me all that data and all those patterns. So I can make better decisions, which includes knowing when to go easy and knowing when to go hard. New members can try Whoop with a 30 day free trial before committing to a membership. That's join.whoop.com/psychology for your free month of Whoop.

• 2:52Jemma Sbeg?

  Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your 20s, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology.

• 3:11Jemma Sbeg?

  Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world. It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we, of course, break down the psychology of your twenties. Have you ever looked at your life or maybe the life of other people around you and thought, is it always going to be this busy? Is it always going to be this chaotic? Do we ever get a break? Or is it just this constant drum in the back of your head of drama, of overwhelm, of things to do? You're always on the go. You're always reacting, always just a little bit on.

• 3:52Jemma Sbeg?

  Maybe, just maybe, there is also a part of you that thrives on it, that feels most alive, shall we say, when the stakes are really, really high, when the deadline is tomorrow, when the relationship is on the brink. I know I've definitely had those moments. What we're talking about today is chaos, the nature of chaos, the kind that isn't accidental, but sometimes almost invited, the kind that makes you wonder, am I addicted to this? Am I the problem? Is the reason all my friendships have failed? The jobs didn't work out? I feel behind, I feel on edge. Is that maybe my tolerance for chaos?

• 4:34Jemma Sbeg?

  And the fact that I always feel like I need to crash out or explode my life for it to be entertaining? Now, I don't mean when I say this that we are all out here actively trying to sabotage our lives and cause drama. Most of us are, I think, consciously striving for peace and stability. But if we're honest, sometimes unconsciously, we do our best in a state of urgency. That hum of drama, that staticness feels normal, even exhilarating. How do we break that habit? How do we break the curse of feeling addicted to chaos and feel comfortable in stillness and comfortable in peace?

• 5:16Jemma Sbeg?

  This is something that I have been thinking about a lot, especially after receiving a few messages from you all who basically shared the same sentiment. How can I tell if I'm the problem? How can I break out of this pattern? So today, we are diving headfirst into the question. Are we addicted to chaos? We are going to investigate why we might inadvertently be drawn to situations that are fraught with tension and that have a sense of urgency. We're going to look at how this plays out in our relationships, why we may crave excitement and anxiety over safety in our romantic relationships, our personal lives, our careers.

• 5:58Jemma Sbeg?

  And we're going to get into the often hidden, deeper reasons why we might cling to this tumultuous state or might unconsciously sabotage our efforts for peace. And crucially, what do we do about it? What are the small mental shifts that we need to take to embrace stillness? To embrace the discomfort of standing still without feeling like our lives aren't moving in the correct direction? And so much more. So without further ado, let's explore whether, deep down, we are addicted to chaos and what to do about it.

• 6:36Jemma Sbeg?

  Okay, let's cut straight to the chase. Why does chaos, or rather the resolution of chaos, sometimes feel so fricking good? What's really happening here is a bit of a neurochemical roller coaster that, in subtle ways, makes us addicted to urgency, not because of how good it feels in the moment, but because of how good we feel afterwards. When you're facing a crisis, such as a looming deadline, or a relationship argument, or an unexpected problem, your body kicks into high gear. This is your sympathetic nervous system taking over, initiating the very famous fight or flight response. As a response to that, your brain is going to release adrenaline, it's going to release cortisol,

• 7:20Jemma Sbeg?

  the primary stress hormones, your heart rate goes up, your senses sharpen, you have this burst of energy. This is obviously used as a primal survival mechanism. It's meant to be designed, well, it is designed to help us quickly react to danger. But here's the kicker. When you resolve that crisis, when you escape the danger, when you survive, when you meet the deadline, when you clear your inbox, there's a drop in those stress hormones. And often, as a response, your brain releases dopamine, it releases DMT, and that feeling of relief is what we're actually after, is what we actually crave. Your brain, being the incredibly efficient learning machine that it is,

• 8:00Jemma Sbeg?

  actually starts to associate this crisis resolution dopamine hit cycle with reward, rather than with the stress and the anxiety and the panic that came before. So the chaos itself is uncomfortable, but the payoff of getting through it is so rewarding that that's actually the thing we start to chase. If it feels counterintuitive, it really is. It's not just that we want stress, we get used to the reward. The same way that people love scary movies, love endurance sports, all those kinds of things. The reason they love them is because of the secondary emotion and the secondary reaction that comes with living through.

• 8:44Jemma Sbeg?

  This can be explained by principles of operant conditioning where a behaviour, so engaging with or creating chaos is reinforced by a positive outcome, the dopamine rush of resolution, so that we continue to engage in it to get the reward. Of course, in this situation, some of the wires have kind of been crossed. But regardless, this underlying dopaminogenic principle is why this practice and these patterns of behaviour do feel so addictive. Beyond the pure neurochemistry, there is also, of course, a psychological draw to novelty and intensity. Our brains are wired, hardwired, to pay attention to new, surprising, intense stimuli.

• 9:28Jemma Sbeg?

  In fact, one of my favourite studies ever conducted actually found that having more novel and new experiences actually creates the illusion of more time in our days and therefore our lives. So our brain is really looking for that newness. Calm, consistent, predictable routines, whilst they're healthy, they don't necessarily provide the same kind of immediate sensory and emotional stimulation or sense of expansiveness compared to this constant flux and unpredictability. And this is the deeper problem is that we start to equate chaos to the sense of being alive and truly experiencing things. It's the opposite of boredom and for many of us, especially in our twenties,

• 10:10Jemma Sbeg?

  where we are constantly seeking out new experiences, we are pushing boundaries. We don't want to miss out on anything critical and fun and exciting. Avoiding boredom, avoiding plainness can be a powerful motivator. Research on sensation seeking, which is this trait where we really seek out newness and novelty, shows that individuals with higher needs for varied, novel and complex sensations might actually unconsciously gravitate towards more chaotic and stimulating environments. So in these studies, they were the ones who ran towards the fire essentially. They were the ones who got involved in the drama. And on this point of novelty and intensity, it is also worth touching on ADHD.

• 10:52Jemma Sbeg?

  For individuals with ADHD, there is a known difference in how your brain processes and regulates dopamine and also its counterpart, norepinephrine, which you need dopamine in order to release and for your brain to understand. The brains of people with ADHD have an imbalance of dopamine, specifically notably normally lower levels of dopamine in certain brain regions. But also there is research that's beginning to support that they also have fewer dopamine receptors and more of this protein that actually cleans up dopamine on the synapse, meaning that dopamine messages will remain available in your brain for less time. So the happiness fades quicker.

• 11:34Jemma Sbeg?

  All of this basically means that they can really struggle with maintaining motivation. Because dopamine is not just the happy chemical, it is responsible for motivation. It's responsible for feeling, feeling aligned with something, wanting to do something. It also means that their threshold for the positive feelings is a lot higher. So they have to experience more to get to a point of enjoyment or exhilaration compared to someone who doesn't have this regulation. So this can lead to the drive for novelty and high stimulation as the brain seeks to achieve optimal arousal and a consistent flow of dopamine because of how the system may not be working. So if you have ADHD, for those of you with ADHD,

• 12:19Jemma Sbeg?

  constant demands, shifting priorities, the rush of last minute deadlines, that actually can feel pretty safe for you, that actually can feel quite normal. It can make you feel focused, it can make you feel engaged, even productive in a way that calmer, more predictable environments don't. And it's not that ADHD causes an addiction to chaos. It's that the underlying neurological differences can make chaotic environments feel more engaging or even feel more comfortable, feel more right for some individuals, making it harder for them to step away from this intensity.

• 13:00Jemma Sbeg?

  So it's very important to understand this distinction between our addiction to chaos as a learned habit versus as a symptom of a brain that is wired just a little bit differently. However, for those addicted to chaos as a learned habit, many perceive there to be positive side effects of chaos. And that acts as the primary hook for this pattern. People who thrive in these environments, they often are incredibly effective in a crisis. They think quickly on their feet. They can problem solve under immense pressure. They get things done when others might freeze. So it does feel like an asset. You do feel quite competent. You can go where no one else can go.

• 13:45Jemma Sbeg?

  You can do things that other people might not be able to do. And so in a period where we're forming our identity and our self-concept, the fact that we are good at doing this, at putting out fires, can feel quite validating and powerful. There's a certain thrill in being praised for this last minute performance or for constantly proving people that you can overcome a challenge. Let's also not forget a crucial element to this, which is perceived control. Humans want to be in control. We want to feel like we matter. We want to feel like we can create change. We can do things. We can manage our environment, that we have a say. Whilst chaos might seem like the opposite of control, sometimes by creating it artificially or deliberately,

• 14:30Jemma Sbeg?

  we reclaim a sense of agency because we create just enough chaos that we can feel in charge. This can be particularly appealing if you feel like you lack control in other areas of your life. So if your career progression is slow or major life decisions feel out of your hands, then the manageable chaos of a relationship or of going out all the time or of crashing out on the weekends or doing like insane stuff can almost feel productive. It can feel exhilarating. It can feel like you have something to do. The problems emerge when controlled chaos becomes uncontrolled, unmanageable and maladaptive.

• 15:09Jemma Sbeg?

  Hopefully I've made this clear that this isn't about some grand conscious plan to live in constant turmoil and we like throwing things up in the air and seeing where they land. It's actually our brains quest for reward. It's our brains quest for stimulation. It's our brains quest for competence, self-efficacy, to feel like we can manage the problems thrown at us. Okay, we're gonna take a short break, but when we return, let's talk about some of the ways this manifests in our lives, why you may end up regretting decisions made in the heat of the moment, and most importantly, how to actually crave peace, stillness, stability

• 15:52Jemma Sbeg?

  over the comfort of urgency. So stay with us.

• 16:00Jemma Sbeg?

  This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know, they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on, and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is, lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com.

• 16:37Jemma Sbeg?

  Something that really frustrates me is when wellness brands greenwash their products to make them seem more clean or better for the environment, when they are actually not. When you look into it, they are kind of just like the rest of them. Nature's Sunshine, however, doesn't just talk about the planet. They do something about it. They sustainably source ingredients, they craft their supplements with 100% solar-powered manufacturing, and their products are incredible. I don't drink coffee, and so Nature's Sunshine Brain Edge gives me that kick I sometimes need with potent ingredients, combining yerba mate with nootropics, adaptogens, botanicals to support mental clarity and focus. And you already

• 17:19Jemma Sbeg?

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• 18:02Jemma Sbeg?

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• 18:43Jemma Sbeg?

  for that. I also find that Moisture Surge is a great lightweight base. If you like something under your makeup, it makes your skin look so plump and soft, especially first thing in the morning when it's maybe not looking that way. Basically, I think it feels exactly like how you want a moisturizer to feel. Fresh, lightweight, and deeply hydrating. Try Clinique Moisture Surge one hundred hour today at Clinique dot com. Feels like Moisture Surge.

• 19:12Jemma Sbeg?

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• 19:53Jemma Sbeg?

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• 20:09Jemma Sbeg?

  Let's get real about how this plays out in the daily fabric of our lives, especially for us in our twenties. Once you start looking for it, you'll see that chaos isn't just about external events. It's a pattern of thinking and a pattern of behaviour that slowly weaves its way into everything. Specifically, the thing that's closest in orbit to us, the thing that often matters more than anything, are relationships. And it manifests in relationship drama. We've all seen it, we've all experienced it, maybe we've even unconsciously participated in it. The breaking up, getting back together, the explosive fights, ignoring someone when

• 20:49Jemma Sbeg?

  you know it's not healthy, the two, you know, to and throwing, like the back and forth. For some, a relationship feels boring or stale without a certain level of intensity. This can be fuelled by that neurochemical rollercoaster, of course, that we just discussed. But for other people, it can also be that calm relationships feel uncomfortable and feel boring.

• 21:18Jemma Sbeg?

  If you are used to unhealthy love, sometimes healthy love can be equally, if not more, challenging. Because you have to adapt to a new way of communicating, a new way of problem solving, and your love isn't constantly being proven through the resolution of conflict. So you have to create that conflict to feel the same excitement or anxiety that you're used to. Individuals with an insecure attachment style, of course, are more drawn to this, see this happening more often, and might unconsciously, unconsciously, gravitate towards drama because it mirrors familiar patterns of attention and connection from earlier life, from your childhood.

• 22:02Jemma Sbeg?

  Even if those patterns, you know they are unhealthy. There's another phenomenon attached to this, something that I actually talked about in my book quite a lot. It's called repetition compulsion. Repetition compulsion is a psychological pattern whereby we unconsciously recreate familiar emotional experiences from our past, often ones that are chaotic or painful, in an attempt to gain control or resolution, in an attempt to gain mastery, to break the internal cycle. In relationships, of course, this looks like gravitating towards partners who bring up

• 22:43Jemma Sbeg?

  drama, who bring up instability, not because we want to suffer, but because it mirrors a very comfortable emotional landscape. And we say to ourselves, if I can make it out this time, if I can fix this, if I can bring this under my control, if we can make it work, well then, that means that in all these other situations, it wasn't my fault. In all these other situations, it wasn't me. It can be this unconscious effort to get it right this time, to finally receive the love, validation, stability that we were denied before. The irony, of course, being that instead of healing, we end up stuck in cycles that actually repeat and deepen the original wound.

• 23:24Jemma Sbeg?

  So we pick fights, we go hot and cold, we even think about doing things like flirting with someone else or cheating on our partner. It's a way to feel seen, it's a way to get attention because attention feels like love, it's a way to, what we think is build intimacy through conflict, because we think that intimacy is born from volatility. This really connects to this very interesting concept called the drama triangle. It's a concept from something called transactional analysis, which is a psychological model essentially developed to describe destructive relationship patterns. And how it goes is that the triangle outlines three roles, three roles that people unconsciously

• 24:08Jemma Sbeg?

  adopt in conflict. The victim, who feels powerless and seeks rescue, the rescuer, who tries to fix others and fix their problems, and the persecutor, who criticizes or controls to feel superior. These roles are fluid and people often shift between them within the same interaction. A chaos addict, though, might constantly find themselves in one of these roles, perpetuating drama. The average person hopefully isn't in the triangle at all, but if you're addicted to chaos, you may find yourself creating situations where you need to be rescued. You may find yourself in situations where you are allowed to rescue someone else, where you get to be the problem solver. You may find yourself stirring the pot.

• 24:52Jemma Sbeg?

  It is a way of being constantly engaged, constantly relevant, even if the engagement comes from negative interactions. There is, of course, a cost to this. Conflict resolution might create a big dopamine hit. It might make you feel like you've won and you've pushed through some issue, but perpetual drama will erode trust and intimacy 100% of the time. Partners and friends, they love you, they care about you, they also hopefully care about themselves and may get tired of that emotional roller coaster. They might also feel like they're being used as, I guess, props in your personal drama. They're exhausted, they're in a constant state of crisis themselves.

• 25:33Jemma Sbeg?

  Research on relationship dynamics consistently shows that stable, secure relationships, they thrive on predictability, they thrive on emotional safety, not constant upheaval. And genuine connection really does require that we are calm and regulated and that we can co-regulate together. So if there's a constant urge to find chaos and to find drama, that's not going to necessarily compute or fit. That's the consequence for relationships. An addiction to chaos will also obviously impact things like our career. This is massive for our twenties. We are often juggling multiple roles, immense pressure, a glorified need to seem busy.

• 26:15Jemma Sbeg?

  How many of us secretly thrive in that environment where there is a last minute deadline? You procrastinate, you let the pressure build, maybe because of perfectionism. Then you pull out an all nighter and you do something brilliant. This is called an urgency addiction. If you find that you can only really get stuff done at the last minute or under a crunch. It may be because you have become reliant on this adrenaline rush. You've been become reliant on stress hormones to motivate you. It does actually lead to a false sense of productivity because you feel busy and you feel rushed and you feel exhilarated. Even though you're not actually being necessarily efficient or productive.

• 26:57Jemma Sbeg?

  You're not strategically moving forward, but you are fueled by the thrill. This is a classic example of procrastination cycles being reinforced by the relief of completion. Even if the overall process is inefficient and stressful. Research by psychologists who are studying chronic procrastination consistently shows that the short term relief can overshadow the long term costs. And let's be real, in a world that is praising hustle culture and praising the grind. It is easy to mistake exhaustion for effort and constant, very high level urgency and activity for actual progression. But what are you actually doing to your body? Busyness is such a status symbol.

• 27:39Jemma Sbeg?

  You're always over scheduling, you never have downtime, you're jumping from one project to the next. And so you may conflate being overwhelmed with being important, with being valuable, with being interesting. It's like a badge of honor. And I've done it, I've done it so many times. I was so guilty of this in university. People would wanna hang out and I'd be like, oh no, I'm so busy, I'm so busy, like I've never been busier. I've, I've constantly got all these things on my plate. And it was this weird thing where eventually I had to ask myself, what do I have to prove? What do I have to prove to these people? By allowing them to assume that I am, you know, I don't know, by allowing them to pursue,

• 28:23Jemma Sbeg?

  assume that I've constantly got things on, by letting them assume or believe that I am the busiest person in any room. What am I trying to prove? I'm trying to prove that I'm important. I'm trying to prove that I can work hard. That's really what this is. The most obvious cost of this all is of course, burnout. Constantly operating in a high stress, high adrenaline mode is unsustainable. Your body is designed for short bursts of stress, not a stress marathon. Chronic stress of this kind will elevate cortisol levels that will create sleep problems. A weakened immune system, you will get sick more easily. Digestive issues, increased anxiety, even an increased risk of depression. You feel perpetually exhausted. You feel irritable. You feel disconnected.

• 29:08Jemma Sbeg?

  Even if you think you're okay, even if you think you haven't really had enough, you don't deserve to be burnt out, your body doesn't care if you feel like you deserve to be burnt out. If you're burnt out, you're burnt out and you're going to feel terrible. There's no ignoring that. Your body will adapt for as long as possible and then it will collapse. And as soon as you feel a little bit better, you might feel the instinct to push again and then you'll collapse. And can you see what kind of toll this takes on you? You're not a machine where we can go out and buy another part. I can't go out and buy a new battery for my body. I can't go out and buy a new system of of organs that are going to sustain me if I

• 29:52Jemma Sbeg?

  keep putting them under such immense pressure that they collapse. You have to ask yourself, what is your love for chaos costing you in the long run? If you're in your twenties right now, it can feel like you could keep going forever. You can't. One day you will feel the toll and you'll look back and be like, why was I so busy? What was that all for? We also have to consider, my lovely listeners, whether it might, this whole thing, might actually be a sophisticated form of avoidance and looking away from something deeper. Let's have that conversation for a second. The avoidance of stillness and introspection is massive for people in their twenties. We are often grappling with very big questions. Who am I? What do I want?

• 30:37Jemma Sbeg?

  Am I good enough? What is the meaning of all this? What is my future going to be like? These questions really do require quiet reflection and sometimes sitting with really uncomfortable existential feelings, because that's how we figure out what we believe in. And that's how we integrate hard thoughts, hard things, hard truths into our life. If you're asking big questions like, what is the meaning of all this? And you really don't have even a single answer, and it's getting louder and louder and louder, and you don't know where to start, chaos provides a brilliant noisy distraction. Research on avoidance highlights how people often engage in these kinds of excessive,

• 31:22Jemma Sbeg?

  harmful behaviors to escape unwanted internal experiences. Even if those behaviors are, of course, ultimately unhelpful, the negative consequence of living in chaos feels less significant than the negative concept, the negative consequence of internal chaos that is probably taking over. Because once we stop spinning and rushing, you might look around and be like, oh, my God, look at this big pile of crap that I have to deal with. This anxiety, this self doubt, this loneliness, this unresolved trauma. This is so uncomfortable. What if I just run back into the fire? What if I just find another problem that takes priority? Then I won't have to think about it.

• 32:07Jemma Sbeg?

  Recognizing those deeper roots is the first step towards breaking free. Congratulations if you have done it. You're not a bad person for thriving in chaos. You're not a bad person for the things that you have done previously to avoid hard thoughts. But it is time that we shift away from this deeply ingrained pattern. Because you are meant to be present for life. You are meant to want to strive towards things. You will realise that life does feel easier at a lower frequency. With that in mind, we are going to take a short break. But when we return, I have five tips, just five tips for you to master chaos in your life. And turn your pursuit of irregularity and chaos into the pursuit of a regulated nervous system,

• 32:50Jemma Sbeg?

  internal harmony, inner peace, whatever you want to call it. Stay with us.

• 33:00Jemma Sbeg?

  This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is, lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favourite gym clothing at gymshark.com.

• 33:37Jemma Sbeg?

  Something that really frustrates me is when wellness brands greenwash their products to make them seem more clean or better for the environment when they are actually not. When you look into it, they are kind of just like the rest of them. Nature Sunshine, however, doesn't just talk about the planet. They do something about it. They sustainably source ingredients, they craft their supplements with 100% solar powered manufacturing, and their products are incredible. I don't drink coffee and so Nature Sunshine Brain Edge gives me that kick I sometimes need with potent ingredients combining yerba mate with nootropics, adaptogens, botanicals to support mental clarity and Focus and you already know how much I love their marine glow and have for years.

• 34:22Jemma Sbeg?

  It is the only collagen that combines skin supporting marine collagen with the sun and blue light protection of luton to make your skin feel and look glowy and protected. Plus, I just really like that they have nature at the core of everything that they do. Try nature's sunshine and experience the difference with supplements that are better for you and the planet. Go to nature's sunshine dot com today and use the code psych for twenty percent off your first order plus free shipping. That's code psych for twenty percent off your first order at nature sunshine dot com.

• 34:57Jemma Sbeg?

  You know that feeling when your skin just needs a tall drink of water? That's what Clinique Moisture Surge one hundred hour moisturizer is for. Moisture Surge one hundred hour moisturizer absorbs instantly and hydrates for one hundred hours for plump glowing skin. That is correct, one hundred hours. It is a lightweight, oil-free gel cream, safe for sensitive skin. It's allergy tested, it's fragrance free, it absorbs quickly. So skin feels hydrated without feeling heavy or weighed down. I use this daily and I'm very picky with what goes on my skin. I have a combination skin type, so I really don't want to feel too oily or too dry.

• 35:41Jemma Sbeg?

  And this product is perfect for that. I also find that Moisture Surge is a great lightweight base if you like something under your makeup. It makes your skin look so plump and soft, especially first thing in the morning when it's maybe not looking that way. Basically, I think it feels exactly like how you want a moisturizer to feel. Fresh, lightweight and deeply hydrating. Try Clinique Moisture Surge one hundred hour today at Clinique dot com. Feels like Moisture Surge.

• 36:12Jemma Sbeg?

  Sponsored by ADT. It's that glorious time of year again. We're back to school, we're back to work, we're back to our routines. ADT wants to help you get back to home. Enjoying the little moments with your friends and your family is a lot easier when you have one less thing on your plate. With their customizable systems that can be professionally installed, ADT has your home security covered. The ADT Plus app lets you access your whole system from your phone, so you can arm, disarm, even check live camera feeds, so you always feel safe and secure. Their technology enables first responders to locate you faster in an emergency, so you have one less thing to worry about.

• 36:52Jemma Sbeg?

  And you can spend all that time making memories with your loved ones instead, whilst ADT protects your home. Visit ADT.com or call 1-800-ADT-ASAP. When every second counts, count on ADT. Our goal here is not to become a Zen master suddenly overnight. Change never works that way. Our brains don't work that way. It takes time to build a habit, even longer to undo an impulse like our attraction to chaos that has probably been around for some time. It is a worthwhile investment. What we're going to talk about is cultivating awareness, making some really conscious small

• 37:32Jemma Sbeg?

  choices, and just gently, persistently rewiring those ingrained patterns. Here are a few actionable thoughts, things I really want you to consider and maybe even try this week, drawing on all the psychology that we've already talked about today. Firstly, I need you to figure out your personal chaos triggers and what you're actually getting out of it. You might ask yourself the following questions. When do I feel most alive? During calm moments or in a crisis? Where did that come from?

• 38:12Jemma Sbeg?

  What situations or people consistently create drama or stress in my life? Does that stress actually leave me feeling good? Do I ever feel uncomfortable when things are going smoothly? What do I do in those moments or don't do in those moments that I should be doing? What role do I usually play in conflict? Am I the fixer, the victim, the instigator? Where do I sit in the triangle? What reward do I get from chaos? Is it attention, adrenaline, control, distraction?

• 38:49Jemma Sbeg?

  What emotion do I avoid by staying busy, overwhelmed, or in a crisis mode?

• 38:57Jemma Sbeg?

  If peace felt safe and felt rewarding, what would my life actually look like? What would I be able to avoid? What do I need to change to get there? All of this is about mapping your specific chaos cycle and style. And once you do that, you will have a much clearer idea of what you're actually battling against. Next, and this is probably the toughest one, especially if you are wired for intensity, is that you have to try stillness as an alternative. I'm going to challenge you to ignore constant noise, constant stimulation. Don't just immediately put on music when you feel overwhelmed. Don't just watch TV as you make dinner.

• 39:40Jemma Sbeg?

  Don't just go on your phone immediately after you have a bad thought. Don't try and find things that are chaotic to be interested in. Just give yourself tiny moments where you are allowed to just hold heavy emotions in your hands, almost, when you're allowed to just experience them for a tiny pocket and then move on. Sit, breathe, your brain is going to scream at you for stimulation. You will feel restless, you maybe will feel anxious. This is just your nervous system, which is used to being on high alert, reacting to an unfamiliar calm. But persist, even if it's just for five minutes, because that is training your brain. It is endurance training for your mind. Five minutes might feel impossible.

• 40:26Jemma Sbeg?

  Do one minute today, two minutes tomorrow, ten minutes, twenty minutes. You'll start to build a tolerance for stillness. You might even, dare I say it, start to find that those profound insights that you have been avoiding actually are helpful. You might actually like feeling peaceful. It's basically like trying to teach your inner alarm system that not every quiet moment is a sign of impending doom. And that actually a calm, peaceful, still, easygoing, low-frequency life is incredibly fulfilling and fun. You know, going to the library and having a cup of tea and going to bed at nine P M. It's not all that bad. It's actually very, very fun.

• 41:09Jemma Sbeg?

  There's still room for you to do like the high-energy, high-frequency things. But if you're finding that you're using them as a distraction, how can you bring in the alternatives every now and again? How can you provide evidence to yourself that the alternative isn't really as bad as you're thinking that it is? If you feel addicted to chaos as well, chances are that you might not have the strongest boundaries, either with others or with yourself. Chaos thrives where boundaries are permeable. So another element to this is about drawing clear lines in the sand and honoring your no. When someone asks you to do something, before just making space or before just permitting

• 41:50Jemma Sbeg?

  them to do it or getting you involved, ask yourself, do I actually want this? Is this actually going to make my day, my week, my life better? When you go to gossip, when you go to engage in drama, when you go to start a fight, when you go to fill up your calendar, remember, you are what you consume, including the conversations, the social media content, the energy of others. You are what you choose to engage in and what is around you. Is that what you want to be? Is that a healthy energy source?

• 42:28Jemma Sbeg?

  If you constantly feel like your energy is off, if you constantly feel irritated, agitated, what are you saying yes to in life that is creating this, that is having a domino effect on your everyday mood and sense of self? What are you engaging in? What chaos are you allowing? Because you wanna stay friends with people you shouldn't, because you can't set boundaries with yourself, because you can't turn away from what is taking from you. Think of boundaries as your personal firewall against the constant influx of external chaos. They're not walls to push people away. They're basically like property lines that protect your precious energy, your time, your mental peace.

• 43:12Jemma Sbeg?

  It's a proactive step. Really getting to know what you do and don't enjoy and why you feel called to do the things you don't enjoy is incredibly important because you're sending a message to yourself that says, my peace is my priority, even if sometimes peaceful feels boring. As we've spoken about, a huge part of why chaos is so addictive is the amazing feeling we get after the chaotic or stressful period is over. So we also need to create new pathways for dopamine hits from proactive preventative wins instead of waiting for a fire to put out to try and anticipate and address potential problems and feel relief then. So we're gonna be breaking down our tasks into smaller manageable steps.

• 43:57Jemma Sbeg?

  We're gonna be celebrating each small completion. We are going to be planning our weeks. We are going to be feeling a sense of pride when we meal prep, when we do things that make our life easier, when you call yourself out, when you schedule your downtime first, then fill in the tasks. This shifts you from being a reactive, chaos-driven individual to a proactive, intentional one. It also allows us to tap into delayed gratification, which is probably the most useful concept in this episode. It's also probably something that you are missing. When we're chasing urgency, we often live in a short term gratification loop. There is an issue, resolution is delayed till the last moment, meaning we get instant gratification.

• 44:42Jemma Sbeg?

  But turning your sights to something that will take you longer, like an assignment or a project that you start early and work on slowly, or like rewiring your communication approach to foster a healthy relationship, gives you a stronger, more powerful sense of accomplishment after the fact than if you are just tapping into these short wins. It's so, so, so much more rewarding. It's like choosing the healthy option over the junk food. Instant gratification, junk food, not always that bad, but not going to make you feel great if you consume it all the time. Long term gratification is something that nourishes you. It's more rewarding because it taps into intrinsic satisfaction rather than just a dopamine hit.

• 45:24Jemma Sbeg?

  When you engage in something over time, whether it is building a healthy relationship or healing a pattern or showing up consistently for a project, the payoff isn't just the outcome, it's the identity shift that happened along the way. Because you start to see yourself as someone who is capable, intentional, grounded. That builds self-trust. You are not just good in a crisis, you are good all the time. Finally, something that really occurred to me just then, and when talking about this and even when I was writing about it, is that chaos is everywhere. Life will never be short of chaotic, stressful, pressurized moments. Your life can change at any moment. You don't need to be looking out for or creating it yourself.

• 46:07Jemma Sbeg?

  It will find you, I promise. It will find you in changing circumstances and unexpected challenges in just the unpredictable nature of being alive. The external world will always present you with a dose of inevitable turmoil. You don't need to worry about life not being exciting. Trust me, you don't need to create the exciting moments. And if that's really what's going on, if you're exploding your life because you're bored, crashing out isn't going to solve a deeper internal dissatisfaction. You need to be having more planned novel experiences, planning things that are intentionally fun, getting out of your suburb or your town, challenging yourself instead of waiting

• 46:51Jemma Sbeg?

  to blow up your life every three months when you feel unsettled. What we're really changing here is the reliance on dopamine from the resolution of an avoidable crisis to a desire for a deeper, soulful state of enjoyment, long-term reward, a calm emotional environment that's going to mean that when exciting things happen, we can appreciate them rather than feeling like they are going to destroy our sense of self and just set us in a tizzy. It's hard work, it's worth it. So as we wrap up today, I want to leave you with this thought. The chaos in your life, the rush, the constant doing, it might feel like living, but sometimes true living is found in stillness.

• 47:33Jemma Sbeg?

  It is found in intentional moments, in the quiet progress, in just a sense of peace. The more mature you get, the more you will realise how desirable that is. Your twenties are a time of immense building and immense excitement. There's always going to be some fire to put out. Don't create more fires for yourself. The pursuit of peace, if you start it now, will create such a better long-term mental state and environment for you so that you're not thirty, forty, doing the same things. I really hope that you did enjoy this episode. I hope you know that I'm coming from a place of acceptance. I was once this person, I probably still am.

• 48:16Jemma Sbeg?

  And also just an understanding that if you love chaos, if you love drama or excitement, sometimes that's just how you're wired. That doesn't always mean that it's an excuse and it doesn't always mean that you can't do anything about it. Hopefully these tips have inspired you to just take small little steps. I'm not saying you need to submit yourself to. A regular, routine life from now until you die. I'm just saying, leave space for stillness. Hopefully these tips and just this conversation has encouraged you to see what the alternative might be. Thank you so much for listening. If you have made it this far, thank you for being such a solid listener. Leave a little pastor emoji down below if you have made it this far.

• 48:56Jemma Sbeg?

  Just for whatever reason, leave one down below. So I know that you have made it to the end of the episode and thank you for sticking around. Make sure you are following me on Instagram at that psychology podcast. And that you are also following us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you are listening. Leave a five star review, share this episode with a friend, maybe even share it on Instagram. If you want it to reach other people or you think that other people in their twenties or beyond would get something out of it. Make sure as well that you listen to my new podcast mantra. It will be linked in the episode description. And until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself. Embrace peace and stillness, please. We will talk very, very soon.

• 49:41Jemma Sbeg?

  This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is. Lifting cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com.

• 50:18Jemma Sbeg?

  I've been approaching my health really differently this year. I used to be really focused on maximizing and doing more. And now I'm just realizing that if I listen to what my body needs, I perform way better. And that's why I am obsessed with my Whoop. Truly, you guys, you know, I'm such a data and information driven person. And I love opening my Whoop app and seeing how my sleep, my stress, my strain is correlating with my. With my running performance, with how I'm just feeling day to day. I'm not an elite athlete by any means, but I do really benefit. And I also just really enjoy knowing more about my body. And Whoop also gives me these actionable personalized insights that have made me more intentional

• 51:03Jemma Sbeg?

  and meant that I make smarter decisions day to day about what I need, rather than just putting my foot on the gas and just going, going, going, going. New members can try Whoop with a 30 day free trial before committing to a membership. That's join dot whoop dot com slash psychology for your free month of Whoop. Hey, question, are you an extra care member at CVS? Because there is literally no reason not to be. It's super easy to join and members instantly get extra big deals on things you buy most. I mean, this is stuff you're already buying, things like snacks, personal care products, all of it. And after you join, the savings just show up. Deals refresh every two weeks, but they don't last long.

• 51:46Jemma Sbeg?

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• 51:55Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.