#818 Bitcoin's Comeback w/ Dylan LeClair

Dylan LeClair is the Senior Market Analyst at UTXO Management, a digital asset fund investing in the analog to digital transformation of money and the emergent financial system. In this conversation, we discuss Bitcoin, on-chain metrics, market structure, and what to expect from the rest of the bitcoin bull market. Dylan joins us every Tuesday on "The Best Business Show." To see the video with the corresponding charts that Dylan references throughout the interview, go to "The Best Business Show: LIVE" YouTube Channel ======================= Bitcoin 2022 is the LARGEST Bitcoin event in the world that takes place April 6th - 9th in Miami Beach, Florida. All four days will be jammed-packed with exclusive content, exciting announcements and an incredible lineup of bitcoin speakers, artists and leaders. Day 1 is INDUSTRY DAY for enterprising bitcoiners who are looking to build a business or career within the ecosystem. Days 2 and 3 are general conference days featuring speakers like El Salvador President Nayib Bukele, CEOs like Michael Saylor, Elizabeth Stark, Jack Mallers, Adam Back and hundreds more. The conference caps off on the fourth day with the world's first and largest Bitcoin Music Festival - Sound Money Fest headlined by rapper and fellow bitcoiner Logic, featuring artists K. Flay, MØ, Royal & the Serpent, Apashe, Asadi and more. Stay tuned for the upcoming lineup announcement! Last year’s conference SOLD OUT and this year’s is on pace to be 3x larger so make sure you grab your tickets before it's too late. Visit b.tc/conference to learn more. Ticket prices increase on JAN 14th, use promo code POMP for 10% off and I will see you in Miami!ire ecosystem bringing utility to #NFTs. ======================= Brave Wallet is the first secure crypto wallet built natively in a web3 crypto browser. No extension required. Store, manage, and grow your portfolio, get NFT & multi-chain support, and more. Download the Brave privacy browser at brave.com/Pomp, and click the wallet icon to get started. =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Dylan Leclerc is the Senior Market Analyst at UTXO Management. He also writes a newsletter with Bitcoin Magazine. In this conversation, we talk about Bitcoin, on-chain metrics, we talk about Bitcoin's price, the market structure, and what to expect in the coming weeks. I really enjoyed this conversation with Dylan, and I hope you do as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. Today's episode is sponsored by the Bitcoin 2022 Conference. Bitcoin 2022 is the largest Bitcoin event in the world that takes place April 6th through the 9th in Miami Beach, Florida.

• 0:45Anthony Pompliano?

  All four days will be jam-packed with exclusive content, exciting announcements, and an incredible lineup of Bitcoin speakers, artists, and leaders. Day one is Industry Day for enterprising Bitcoiners who are looking to build a business or career within the ecosystem. Days two and three are general conference days featuring speakers like El Salvador President Nayib Bukele, CEOs like Michael Saylor, Elizabeth Stark, Jack Mahlers, Adam Back, and hundreds more. The conference caps off on the fourth day with the world's first and largest Bitcoin music festival, Sound Money Fest, headlined by rapper and fellow Bitcoiner Logic, featuring artists K-Fle, Mo, Royal, and The Serpent, Apache, Asadi, and more. Stay tuned for the upcoming lineup announcement. Last year's conference sold out, and this year's is on

• 1:27Anthony Pompliano?

  pace to be three times larger, so make sure you grab your tickets before it's too late. Visit b.tc/conference to learn more. Again, that's b.tc/conference to learn more. Ticket prices increase on January 14th. Use promo code POMP for 10% off, and I will see you in Miami. Today's episode is brought to you by Fundrise. You all know I believe that the best investors both understand and seek out extreme asymmetry. Fundrise is here to help you do just that. It's the largest direct-to-investor real estate investment platform out there, giving you the opportunity to achieve upside of an asset class previously reserved for institutions and high net worth individuals. That's right, Fundrise is making high-end, private market, real estate investing accessible to everyone via an Easy to use automated platform.

• 2:11Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:54Anthony Pompliano?

  built natively in a Web3 crypto browser. What's Web3? Web3 is freedom from big tech and Wall Street. More control and better privacy. But there's a weak point in Web3, your crypto wallet. Most wallets are browser extensions, a Web2 technology. That means the same old risks, app spoofing, phishing scams, and theft. Brave Wallet is different. Brave Wallet is the first secure wallet built natively in a Web3 crypto browser. No extension required. With Brave Wallet, you can buy, store, send, and swap assets, manage NFTs, even connect other wallets and dApps, all from the security of the best privacy browser on the market. Whether you're new to crypto or a seasoned pro, it's time to ditch those risky extensions. It's time to switch to Brave Wallet. Download Brave at brave.com/pomp and click the wallet

• 3:39Anthony Pompliano?

  icon to get started. Again, go download Brave at brave.com/pomp and click the wallet icon to get started. All right, let's get into this episode. I hope you guys enjoy this one.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 4:13Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, let's get into Bitcoin. Obviously Bitcoin went down a lot, start the year, December and January, pretty big Price drawdowns, but now Bitcoin has come back. It didn't die, didn't go to zero. All the bears are wrong. They're stunned in disbelief. Let's start with just price weighted by hourly perps funding rate. Obviously, last week and the week before, you were talking a lot about the funding rates and kind of waiting for negative funding. What are you seeing now? What's this telling us?

• 4:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I mean, we got it. You know, we talked about derivatives a lot here. And and really, we like this graphic a lot to show kind of the bearishness or bullishness in the derivative market. So when there's negative funding, essentially what that means is that derivative bets, you have longs paying shorts, or I'm sorry, shorts paying longs. When, okay, let me spit it out here. When this line is red, what you have is is longs are being paid by shorts. So when you see kind of a short squeeze in Bitcoin and Bitcoin's going vertical, oftentimes what's happening is in derivative markets, you have shorts that are being forced forced to become buyers, or they're actually being liquidated, margin called, and in the legacy system, that's what it's called.

• 5:20Speaker 02

  And so you have kind of that organic spot price, but oftentimes when you see these volatile moves at tops and at bottoms, oftentimes it's really the derivative markets that's that's driving the price action. And there's these forced unwinds that are happening. So we we kept talking about, Will talks about it a lot. When we're going to get a regime of like negative funding. What that means is that you're getting times where your shorts are paying longs to enter a position. They're paying longs to sit in a derivative long position. And so we saw that, we saw that at the bottom, and we saw as prices going up, funding was staying negative. So so what that means was that that perpetual swap price was under the the spot market price. So

• 5:58Speaker 02

  whether it's on Binance or FTX perpetual swap or Bitmex, it was under, say, the price of Bitcoin on Coinbase. It was under a spot Bitcoin market price. And so that you can think of like, I like this analogy a lot. When funding is negative, when when you see that positioning under the spot price, it's like a beach ball underwater. And so it wasn't as significant as, say, March of 2020, or even the summer, but this kind of recent squeeze we've got, this, you know, we've almost kind of kind of vertical to 44,000 or around there. It's because of, you know, the derivative bets that have started to really unwind. And so, you know, that's what happens when when bears get too bearish at the bottom.

• 6:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And so if we look at the supply held by whales, that seems to be significantly changing, and they just seem to be gobbling up Bitcoin right Now holding as much of it as they possibly can.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we have here, we have basically a 30 day percentage change of whales and retail. And so with the blue pattern is the blue color is when both of these cohorts are accumulating. And so you can kind of see like, you can think of whales as like the smart money and maybe they're not so smart just as much as they, they really can, you know, change the market structure just with how much capital they have. So when you see both retail and whales accumulating, it's usually, you know, somewhat of a bottom or like it's a, it's a pretty good time to buy. And so recently we seen, we saw retail was continued to buy the entire drawdown. Whales were actually distributing and recently that flipped. So both whales and retail are big buyers here and we've seen that over the last month or so.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  And so I think that's a trend that's, that's pretty good to see and then we'll see if it continues into the future.

• 7:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And so then if we move and we look at actual retail entities and the whales, when you start to compare these over like the 30 day percent change, to me, what is a little bit hard to understand, maybe you can kind of help clarify this, is it doesn't seem like there's been that big of a kind of delta or movement since maybe December or so? How do you look at this? And then if you look over kind of the last few years, what are you seeing here?

• 8:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I think maybe I think our slides were mixed. I changed it. So right, right now I'm looking at the supply held by only whale entities. So, so we're seeing that that accumulation happen. And, and we saw that distribution at the, at the basically the top of the bull market and into the downturn. And we saw that distribution kind of flip from November as a, as, as that CPI print came in really hot and Powell said, you know, hey, we were wrong, inflation's not transitory. And you saw somewhat of the smart money, like the, you know, the big whales start to distribute a little bit. So that's flipped in accumulation mode again, and really like, you know, these, these 30 day trends. It's interesting to monitor, but, but the reality is for the most part Bitcoin's always in an accumulation mode

• 8:47Speaker 02

  for, for most or a lot of market participants and new market participants. It's really just kind of incumbents, how much do they control and what are they doing? And so we're seeing that accumulation happen again, and rightfully so with Bitcoin kind of down 50% from the all time highs. Maybe not now. I think we're actually like 40%, 30% off the bottom. So quite a good bounce, but it's good to see that those whales, that traditional smart money crowd step in big. At a thirty, low thirty K range.

• 9:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, and now this next chart, I think, is one of the most important ones in all of Bitcoin, which is the correlation between the NASDAQ and Bitcoin. And obviously, given all the Fed's interest rate comments and kind of the anticipation of them raising interest rates, Bitcoin's been treated up until the beginning of February as a risk asset. There's been a heavy, heavy correlation between Bitcoin and the NASDAQ, but it seems to decouple now. What does this mean and what are you seeing here?

• 9:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that rolling four-week correlation at six hundred, six hundred seventy-two hour here, this is NASDAQ futures and Bitcoin. It got as high as like point nine four. Right now, it's at point eight nine, but if you're just looking at the chart, Bitcoin has, you know, quite a big pop. You know, one of the days it was up, I think, ten percent when, when that short squeeze happened and the NASDAQ was flattered, I think, a little bit down in the day. So quite a, quite a decent decoupling. I don't think, I think we're not, you know, out of the woods yet in terms of the heavy correlation between Bitcoin and NASDAQ or Bitcoin and risk on assets. I mean, really, the reality is everything's kind of a function of, of the liquidity, you know, liquidity tide, whether that's like pulling in or pulling out. And so I think really what you're seeing here is Bitcoin often decouples or bottoms first,

• 10:24Speaker 02

  or even like forms a top first, right? If you're thinking about what happened in November because of kind of the, the free market nature of Bitcoin and also the derivative market. It's the wild, wild west. That's the beauty of it. So Bitcoin bottoms, Bitcoin decouples because there's these derivative dislocations that, you know, resolve in, in big volatility moves to the upside or downside. And so recently, everyone got overbearish. Macro sellers, I think, basically it looked like they sold all of their coins or for the most part, they just, they didn't have any more coins to sell. And those crypto natives, those Bitcoin natives stepped in and happily accumulated and, and a short squeeze ensued. And so that's why we saw that recent decoupling. And so, you know, we're going to monitor this relationship over the coming weeks, over the coming months, quarters, years.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  But I think it's, it's a pretty positive sign to see that, that pop and kind of decoupling from the NASDAQ. And I can tell you one thing is that every risk manager worth their salt is looking at that relationship between those two.

• 11:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, completely agree. And I think that it's a very good. Positive development and one to keep paying attention to. We've got a chart of the treasury yields and everything seems to be ticking up a little bit. What are you seeing here?

• 11:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this is bond yields across the US treasury curve. You know, we've been talking about bond market a lot and really, you know, inflation coming in at 7%. The entire curve is still, in real terms, deeply negative. But interestingly enough, you see the short end of that curve really bending upwards. And this is before the Fed has hiked whatsoever. So Powell said, all right, we're going to hike, but really, the market is telling him he's got to hike. Or he's, you know, they're almost like, you know, moving his hand without him actually doing anything. The curve is telling the Fed what it's going to do. And I think this has a couple of different implications. There's one, yields and the principal value of bonds are really debt securities is an inverse relationship. So as yields go up, the principal value of these debt securities go down.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  And so especially on the on the long duration part of the curve, these 10-year, 20-year, 30-year bonds, as the yields are ticking up, they're getting killed in principal value. And I have a TLT chart. It's a long-dated treasury bond ETF later in the slide deck. But really, the chart looks really, really ugly, not only in the treasury market, but across all debt and credit markets. And so this, basically, we can kind of see that there's some pain being felt in these in these asset markets. And, you know, everyone likes to look at equity markets, myself included, but really, credit markets tell a big picture. And what it's saying is that inflation, as well as I think the thing that's not very understood, is kind of that solvency risk.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  It's starting to pick up a little bit, and I think we're seeing somewhat of a downturn in the credit cycle. And so it's going to be really interesting to see how it all plays out going forward.

• 13:06Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, next, we've got the US oil price, and it's going up, baby. I remember at one point, we got like, what was it? The futures in oil went negative in 2020, which is a pretty wild situation that I wrote quite a bit about at the time. But this is the actual oil price, almost like the spot oil price, if you will, and it continues to tick up. Why is this important?

• 13:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, I mean, I'm no expert in In oil futures or these markets, but what I can say is that kind of paradoxically, as oil takes higher, despite it, you know, thinking maybe it's inflationary, it's actually rather deflationary over a kind of a medium term because a higher oil price really impacts corporate margins as well as consumer spending. Oil, not only oil, gasoline, but really everything that's a byproduct of oil, which is like almost everything we touch and use in day-to-day life. As this takes up, really, it's felt across the board for consumers, for retail, for corporate margins. And so if we see hundred-dollar oil, hundred-fifty-dollar oil, I've seen some pretty crazy price targets, it's going to get kind of crazy. And I think

• 14:13Speaker 02

  it's not good for a lot of things in the broader economy. You know, a low oil price is better for the economy, that's for sure. And so, you know, there's going to be a lot of pain points here if oil continues to rip. And I think it's something that everyone should, you know, have on their trading view or on their dashboard.

• 14:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I think that's a great way to look at it. And then now we've got high-yield bond ETF, J N K. What's going on here?

• 14:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, so talking a lot about credit markets, you know, it's not everyone's favorite topic here, but it's something, it's something to really watch. You know, it's under the surface, right? Everybody likes to look at equity indices, Bitcoin. And I think over the long term, Bitcoin is kind of not isolated from all of these things, but it has its own monetization process. But over the short term, when you see things like junk bonds, the high-yield credit markets, corporate bond markets really rolling over, it's a sign that something in the broader economy isn't too healthy. And so this is really telling a picture here. That's the creditworthiness of a lot of these borrowers and really what creditors are demanding in terms of yields, because as these prices fall in these bond

• 15:16Speaker 02

  markets, yields are going up. And the reality is creditors don't want to lend to junk borrowers at four, five, six percent, right? Because inflation is seven percent. So before any default risk, you are negative real yields. And so, so it's basically guaranteed to lose money. And I think what people are starting to realize is inflation's not transitory. Why would I ever lend money at five percent when inflation's seven or inflation is? Whatever the reading is this next Thursday. And so it's a really interesting dynamic that's occurring here. And I think if we see junk bonds, if we see these corporate bonds really start to sell off in a big way, there's going to be liquidity and solvency problems across the broader economy. And I think that's something that despite the recent bounce in equities,

• 16:00Speaker 02

  despite the VIX coming down from a tie of like 38 over about two weeks ago, I don't think we're out of the woods yet. And I think it's going to be one of the bigger stories of 2022.

• 16:09Anthony Pompliano?

  And then lastly, let's talk on the 20-year Treasury ETF. What do you see here with TLT?

• 16:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this is just that when we were looking at the government bond yields, this is just the principal value. This is actually like the real value of those notes. So if you're just looking how far it's down from the 2020 high, even from the 2021 high, there's a lot of pain being felt here. There's a lot, there's tens of trillions of dollars. Well, there's $30 trillion in government debt. Not all of that's 20-year long dated. But basically, the value of every asset in the world is based on the value of these debt markets. And so when there's pain being felt here, you know, there's knockoff effects in equities. And even Bitcoin, to an extent, is basically, you know, a function of what these markets are saying, what that cost of capital is based off of in these markets.

• 16:59Speaker 02

  And so if inflation continues to be persistently 7, 8, even 10%, if we start to get, you know, kind of crazy with these inflation prints, there's going to be a lot of pain felt in these debt markets. Equities are going to have a very hard time doing well. And I think over the short term, if there are any kind of, you know, macro allocators, I know there are people in the crypto Bitcoin kind of world that don't even care about any of this and are just stacking regardless. But there are kind of broader effects on balance sheets and the broader macroeconomic landscape when debt markets are saying these things. And so all these things are rolling over. And I think, you know, it might be, you know, an opportunity for Buying opportunity coming up.

• 17:39Speaker 03

  Completely agree. Joe, John, what questions you got?

• 17:41Speaker 04

  Dylan, I just want to know what the vibe is like down there in Austin. What are people saying at the conference? What are you guys talking about?

• 17:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, a lot of big mining companies here, Riot, I mean, just across the board, a lot of publicly traded miners. So having really cool conversations, I can't lie, a lot of it goes over my head. I feel, I mean, I'm learning a ton, but I mean, it's exciting. There's a bunch of different kind of like innovative things I didn't even know were happening. Immersion mining, all this stuff. I mean, it feels like we're really on the cutting edge here. And I guess the vibe is that despite it, you know, everybody feeling like, you know, we're 12, 13 years into this. It's still really, really early and a lot of oil and gas guys are here and they're kind of, they're kind of blown away with, with what they're seeing from the mining side of things. So it gives me a lot of hope that, you know, despite it feel like, you know, we're, we're really deep into this. It's still really, really early for, for most people in the world. And that's, you know, that's obviously there's opportunity there.

• 18:33Speaker 04

  It's a good sign.

• 18:34Speaker 03

  Dylan, how do you, excuse me, Dylan, how do you view kind of the macro sense of things? We were comparing crypto adoption to the internet adoption earlier in the show. What are your thoughts around like that chart that's gone viral?

• 18:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, I mean, it's a pretty good comparison. I think it's, you know, in terms of like users, every user in Bitcoin or crypto isn't, you know, isn't comparable to say, you know, the internet or, you know, maybe like a telephone, telephone adoption, cellphone adoption. Because, you know, one user's capital isn't equal to another. But in terms of just broader adoption, Bitcoin is not even a trillion dollar asset. Obviously passed that threshold earlier, but there's, you know, a few hundred trillion dollars of, of monetary energy, as some people like to say out there. And so Bitcoin is continuing to monetize, it's continuing to just serve as a black hole for, for, for capital. And I think that we're still probably in the second or third inning, maybe, maybe even not even that far.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  So very exciting and obviously got a long way to go, but we're just starting to see things. I've heard some rumors actually of some, some, some pensions and some, some other big allocators over the past couple of weeks here, starting to dip their toes. So we've been talking about it, but I think it's coming to fruition now and that's obviously very exciting.

• 19:46Speaker 03

  Glad to have a guy like you.

• 19:47Anthony Pompliano?

  On the road for Bitcoin.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  Appreciate it.

• 19:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Dylan, last question for you is, how much of the conversation there at the mining conference is about price versus hash rate or some of the underlying fundamentals and lead times of hardware, etc.

• 20:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, obviously, prices, it matters, but the reality is, I think, anybody that has a decent source of power, and a lot of these are contract negotiated, they're really, really deep in the money. The margins for a lot of these publicly traded miners are like, are actually extremely wide. And so, you know, price, even when it goes to 30K, like, it's nothing but a thing for these miners. I think the real thing that's kind of shocking is that a lot of these lead times for stuff like generators, for ASICs, for rack space, it's crazy, you know, backed up for almost, you know, a year, maybe two out. I heard that a couple publicly traded miners have like, you know, three, four, five, six X a hash worth of miners.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  So like, 2% to 3% of the entire network's hash rate currently, just on pallets. So that mean, you know, they have the ASICs, they've already bought them, but they just don't have a place to plug them in. And so, you know, everybody's scrambling to build out infrastructure to plug these things in, and it takes time. And so, you know, obviously, there's, there's a, you know, that's going to come and that's going to be built out. But, you know, there's, there's a lot of people working really hard on this, and especially in North America. So it's exciting for 2022 and beyond to see what, you know, what comes of that.

• 21:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, that, that, it's very interesting to kind of see that miners, you know, to some degree, they're so in the money that a price move is, you know, it's not that they don't matter, but they're just so much less susceptible to them, whether it's 35,000, 43,000, 60,000, you know, it's just all Bitcoin to them at that point. And if they can hold it, obviously, that's, that's pretty beneficial, and it feels like that's where. A lot of them have have ended up now, right?

• 21:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. Did you see what happened with the with the Texas grid like last week?

• 21:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  Riot has negotiated.

• 21:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Explain real quick what happened with with the miners in Texas?

• 21:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. So Riot negotiated with the Texas grid ERCOT to basically, you know, buy power at a at a fixed price. But when there's kind of these, you know, times of of excess demand from the grid, Riot agreed to sell that power back to the grid at a at a actually a pretty high price because because that demand is so high. And so Riot makes a lot of money mining Bitcoin, but when that Texas grid is really, really stressed, they happily shut off their machines and they sell that power back to the grid at actually a higher price than what they would get mining Bitcoin. So they win, the Texas energy grid wins, the people that actually need the power wins, because their mining Bitcoin creates excess, you know, demand for Bitcoin or for energy when when no one else is using it.

• 22:33Speaker 02

  So overall, you see like people like the Texas governor championing Bitcoin mining as as something that builds out a more robust grid. So this is something that's, you know, still very like not well understood in mainstream circles, but it's increasingly become, you know, more of the mainstream conversation. And it's really, really encouraging to see that that happened because just a couple of years ago, it would have been, you know, unbelievable. And now it's just nothing but a thing.

• 22:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's a completely contrary to the public narrative of like mining is bad. All of a sudden, people in those geographies, they're very happy that miners are there, right? Like they're they're they're thankful to some degree. And that doesn't mean that there's not more work to do, not more improvements to make, but definitely not the public narrative, I think, that that.

• 23:19Speaker 02

  Elizabeth Warren is in disbelief.

• 23:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. She she along with many people, which is which is pretty comical to me. But hey, they'll all figure it out eventually, my friend, as you already know. All right, let's do a quick follower check. How are we looking on on followers for you? Where are we at? Woo, crossed 120. 500K by the end of the year. You think you think he's got it? Laughing. I don't think it's I don't think it's too far out of range. Can I give you a can I give you a suggestion on on the Twitter game? I think that you should get rid of your current profile picture and we should just like screenshot you just like this. And then you put that as your as your Twitter profile.

• 23:59Speaker 02

  Screen grab it.

• 24:00Anthony Pompliano?

  You are the only you are the only person that has successfully conducted an interview on this on this show with their sunglasses on the entire time, which I respect. Gotta be a first.

• 24:11Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, man. Listen, thank you for taking the time to do this while you're at the conference. Anyone who does not follow you on Twitter, you're missing out. Anyone who's not subscribed to the newsletter, go, don't click "let me read it first," just type your email in, hit subscribe. That's the best way to do it. And you get all the good information. That's true. Got to ape into it. Yeah, just go. Like, what are you, what are you doing? And then we'll, we'll talk to you next Tuesday. Be safe, travel back. Cheers, guys. Thanks. Later. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you guys enjoyed this one. Make sure you subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to try to transition to get a new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to pompscryptocourse.com. We've developed a curriculum with the top teams across the industry.

• 24:55Anthony Pompliano?

  It's a three-week intensive training program with over 50 events packed into that three-week time period. Go to pompscryptocourse.com to learn more, and I'll meet you guys for the next episode.