Giants, Pyramids, the CIA’s Psychic Spies and The Ancient Civilizations More Advanced Than Ours

The people who run countries believe in the supernatural. It’s the main thing they believe in. Why do they try so hard to convince the rest of us it’s not real? AJ Gentile on giants, the pyramids and remote viewing. (00:00) Why Does the Science Community Refuse to Admit When They’re Wrong? (04:10) What Do We Know About the Pyramids and Giants? (11:29) Why Would the U. S. Government Suppress the Truth About Giants? (28:27) Is There Physical Evidence of a Great Flood? (32:12) Ancient Civilizations and Their Advanced Technology Paid partnerships with: Hallow prayer app: Get 3 months free at https://Hallow.com/Tucker Black Rifle Coffee: Promo code "Tucker" for 30% off at https://www.blackriflecoffee.com Cowboy Colostrum: Get 25% off your entire order with code TUCKER at https://cowboycolostrum.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This podcast is supported by Anthropic, the public benefit corporation behind Claude. Everyone's got a hard question about AI. Anthropic was built to surface those questions and share what it finds along the way, because there's hope in hard questions. Ask yours at claude.ai/spotify and keep thinking. That's claude.ai/spotify.

• 0:31Tucker Carlson?

  Ajay, thank you for doing this.

• 0:32Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me.

• 0:34Tucker Carlson?

  You've become huge for a good reason. You want to hear my macro explanation for your success?

• 0:38Speaker 02

  Oh, I can.

• 0:39Tucker Carlson?

  Honesty is always the first, you know, that's always honesty, good BS filter. But you expose the deepest truth of all, I think, which is there's a lot of stuff we don't know and we pretend to know. We like things are not, especially the past, is not settled like at all. There's just a lot that we don't understand and I don't understand why we won't admit we don't understand it. Whole parts of science, archaeology especially, but many others, medicine, just won't admit that we don't know. What is that?

• 1:11Speaker 02

  I think people don't like to admit when they're wrong, would be my guess. I certainly don't. I try to because I'm wrong a lot.

• 1:19Tucker Carlson?

  I am too.

• 1:21Speaker 02

  But we admit it. And I, there's something about the scientific community, the so-called mainstream, that just doesn't want to be wrong.

• 1:28Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:29Speaker 02

  Maybe there's a financial aspect to it, grants and so forth. Maybe there's ego involved. But I think it's nothing more than that. It's just, it's just a human frailty.

• 1:41Tucker Carlson?

  It turns you into a liar, though.

• 1:43Speaker 02

  It does.

• 1:44Tucker Carlson?

  You have to like make the decision, is my pride more important or the truth more important? And you have to choose truth.

• 1:50Speaker 02

  And I don't think that's common. And if you're, if you need a grant from the government.

• 1:56Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  You need to put in that grant application, what's going to get you paid? What's going to keep your research going? Even if it's not exactly what you believe or even what the evidence shows.

• 2:06Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 2:07Speaker 02

  What I don't understand is the extreme hostility against alternate archaeology.

• 2:13Tucker Carlson?

  I do. Yeah, of course, I agree and I'm, I'm hostile to the hostility. But I, but I, like you, I don't actually understand what is that? Why would that be? Why is it the default position of the media that anyone who asks questions about obvious mysteries is maligned? Like, what is that?

• 2:33Speaker 02

  I don't know. I think we should, as a species, be interested in, in pursuing things we don't know.

• 2:40Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  And be open to any theory, any theory.

• 2:43Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  Um, I mean, Isaac Newton was wrong about so many things, but he was right for a good, a good amount of while.

• 2:51Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  He was wrong about the philosopher's stone, but he got some stuff right. But when someone like Graham Hancock, whose work I admire, I don't agree with all of it, but I admire his tenacity.

• 3:01Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:02Speaker 02

  And persistence, to call him a racist was like.

• 3:05Tucker Carlson?

  You're calling him a racist now?

• 3:07Speaker 02

  That was when Ancient Apocalypse, season one came out. He became, I forget, it was in a UK paper. It was the most dangerous show on television because he was promoting white supremacy. Cause these ancient civilizations had to be white, which he never says. He's married to a woman of color. He never says any of that, but that became the narrative that he's a racist. And then they tried to get that show pulled.

• 3:35Tucker Carlson?

  What?

• 3:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:37Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, gosh, I didn't, I interviewed him once. I, I thought it was the most interesting thing I've ever heard. And huh, that's amazing. But why would, why would you do that? Why would you make up a slur like that to destroy someone who's studying the, you know, some events that happened presumably thousands of years ago, the past, who's an archaeologist? What, why is he a threat to you?

• 4:01Speaker 02

  I'm not really sure.

• 4:03Tucker Carlson?

  That's sinister, though, if you think about it.

• 4:05Speaker 02

  It is. Someone like Zahi Was is certainly infamous in Egyptology. And there was, there was one, there was one time, I don't remember when it happened, where Graham was going to debate Zahi about, about their theories. Zahi refused. He walked out and said, I don't even want to hear what you have to say.

• 4:25Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so for people who, and I don't want to confuse anyone watching. So let's just start the beginning. We're talking about Egyptology in the specific case, the pyramids, the tombs. What do we know about the pyramids? What do we actually know, rather than what we've been told? But like, what can we be certain of?

• 4:43Speaker 02

  Be certain of? I don't think we can be certain of anything. Like, we can't be certain of when they were built. Some of them we can, but the pyramids are strange because it seems like the ones that were built earlier are more perfect than the later pyramids.

• 5:01Tucker Carlson?

  Huh.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  Which suggests that maybe, you know, certainly I subscribe to the theory that the Egyptians did not build like the, the period, like, like Khufu. They, I think they found that.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  I think they, I think they, they found that and then tried to replicate it later on and couldn't quite get it right.

• 5:19Tucker Carlson?

  Why don't we know when they were built?

• 5:21Speaker 02

  You can't really, can't carbon date it.

• 5:24Tucker Carlson?

  But what about the mummies we found inside all the pyramids?

• 5:26Speaker 02

  Never found a mummy in a pyramid.

• 5:28Tucker Carlson?

  What?

• 5:29Speaker 02

  No, there's, we've never found a mummy in a pyramid.

• 5:31Tucker Carlson?

  I thought the mummies were from the pyramids.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  No, they're, they're not. Um, no mummy's been found in a pyramid. Maybe they were placed in certain structures later on, like Valley of the Kings and so forth. But like the Great Pyramid of Giza, that's, no mummy's been found there. There's a, there's a giant box in the king's chamber that's said to be a sarcophagus, but it's not the right shape or size for a mummy.

• 5:55Tucker Carlson?

  Huh. So there are no organic objects found in the Great Pyramid, for example, that would suggest when it was built?

• 6:01Speaker 02

  No organics, no.

• 6:04Tucker Carlson?

  Huh.

• 6:05Speaker 02

  But there are strange things about the pyramid, like chemical residue at certain, at certain openings, shafts, that suggest maybe the pyramid had other uses that, that are really not acceptable to mainstream.

• 6:19Tucker Carlson?

  Of the objects that have been found in the pyramids and the tombs, are there any that we can't explain?

• 6:25Speaker 02

  Any that we can't explain? I don't think so.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  There's a lot of objects that we are not allowed to see.

• 6:34Tucker Carlson?

  Still?

• 6:35Speaker 02

  Still, sure. I mean,

• 6:38Speaker 02

  look at the Smithsonian, I think, has a billion artifacts. We're not allowed to see hardly any of those. They kind of just swoop in and just, just take those. So I don't think there's any unexplainable objects.

• 6:50Tucker Carlson?

  Can you petition the Smithsonian to

• 6:53Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 6:53Tucker Carlson?

  see artifacts?

• 6:54Speaker 02

  Sure, you can.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  And, but you're not going to be able to do that. Smithsonian is a weird organization.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Throughout, throughout the history of the organization, we have records of them receiving bones of giants and, and artifacts that, that are kind of hard to explain. We have records of them receiving it, but then they lose them, or they deny ever having them. And the Smithsonian, which is a government institution,

• 7:23Speaker 02

  is exempt from a lot of law. Like, not too long ago, law was passed that if any museums are in possession of

• 7:34Speaker 02

  tribal, like Native American artifacts, specifically funeral artifacts, they're to be returned to the tribes.

• 7:40Tucker Carlson?

  Bones, yeah.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  Bone, anything, anything, except the Smithsonian. They don't have to do that.

• 7:46Tucker Carlson?

  May I ask, okay, so a couple of things, but I just, I don't want this to slip by. So you're referring to the claim that the Nephilim, as described in Genesis 6, this race of giant people who are hybrid between the spirit world and the human world, and they're the reason that God sent the flood, this is all described in Genesis. They were giants. They were great men of old, I think is the phrase.

• 8:09Tucker Carlson?

  The claim from some people is that was, that's actually real, and the fossil record proves it's real because giant bones, human bones, have been found through the years, and that some or a lot of them wound up in the Smithsonian where their existence was suppressed.

• 8:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:25Tucker Carlson?

  And you're saying there's actually documentary evidence that, that may be true?

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Yes, there's document, documentary evidence that the Smithsonian has received bones and large coffins.

• 8:39Speaker 02

  From not that long ago, we're talking maybe the 50s or 60s. And as recently as the 80s, people have been trying to get access to this information, but it's they're stonewalled, or they just don't have it. And there was one case where the Smithsonian said, we, yes, we did receive the bones, but we don't know where they are.

• 8:55Tucker Carlson?

  And well, if you received human bones that were larger than any human bones ever described in literature ever, other than Genesis 6, kind of a big story, right?

• 9:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And you see that story repeated over and over again, especially in America for hundreds of years. Even native tribes have stories about giants, have having wars with giants, driving giants across the country to, um, the famous one is the Lovelock Cave, which is in California. These are the redheaded giants and red hair has been found in that cave and giant sandals and clothing that is enormous.

• 9:33Tucker Carlson?

  Actually?

• 9:33Speaker 02

  Yes, um, on display. But it's always an explanation. Oh, it's, you know, it's, uh, it's symbolic, it's allegory or whatever it is. But that's not what the native people say. They say that this was a cannibalistic tribe that they cornered in a cave and sealed it and set it, set them on fire essentially. And if you go to that cave, there is residue of the fire. Um, there was one tribal leader who wore strands of red hair in her clothing for years. That, good look her up. She's pretty famous.

• 10:06Tucker Carlson?

  So what, and this is pre Columbus's landing.

• 10:11Speaker 02

  That, um, that incident? Maybe, maybe not. It would be hard to, hard to say.

• 10:19Tucker Carlson?

  It's just hard to see why redheaded people would be on the North American continent.

• 10:24Speaker 02

  I mean, talking about like Neanderthal DNA.

• 10:26Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. I mean, why would they be redheaded? Like, none of the people we believe lived on this continent before the Europeans arrived were redheaded. They were all dark haired.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  True, but if it's giants, then this is DNA that's a little different than ours. So maybe that's what they were.

• 10:39Tucker Carlson?

  Has this ever been tested by anybody?

• 10:40Speaker 02

  No.

• 10:41Tucker Carlson?

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• 13:46Tucker Carlson?

  So I guess this is the macro question, just to circle back to the first exchange. Why would the US government have an interest, clearly they do, in suppressing this and waving people off?

• 13:59Speaker 02

  Well, I hate to say I don't know so many times, but I really don't.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  You know, there's a famous story about, connected to giants, about GE Kincaid, who explored the Grand Canyon. This is the early 1900s, I think, like 1908, 1909. And his story ended up in the Arizona Gazette, where he was kind of rowing down the Colorado River. And he finds these steps that go into a hole in the side of the canyon. And he goes and he explores it and he's kind of mapping it. And inside he finds, basically, the remains of an ancient city, artifacts, a giant statue that kind of looks like Buddha, but not quite, hieroglyphics that kind of look Egyptian, but not quite.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  And he comes out and he's putting together an expedition. And when it's time to go back and explore, he never shows up. And that story was in the papers. What bothers me about that one, it's one of the mysteries that I really wish I knew, is that you can find, you can find that opening in the Grand Canyon and it's covered with an iron gate. And above that area of the canyon is a no-go zone. You cannot go there, you can't walk there.

• 15:16Speaker 02

  But some people have, some people have. And you can see, embedded into the top of the cliff there, iron hooks and equipment that would be used maybe to rappel down the side of the cliff. But when you do go there, suddenly, white planes will appear. And you can't fly over the Grand Canyon, but these white unmarked planes do.

• 15:37Tucker Carlson?

  Can't fly over the Grand Canyon?

• 15:38Speaker 02

  No. And black helicopters will appear. And you can't do that over the Grand Canyon. You can, you can see this episode on my channel where I linked to the full video of these people going up there and there are the helicopters and there's the plane. And eventually they're park rangers or whatever, throw them off the property. That bothers me.

• 16:01Tucker Carlson?

  You think?

• 16:03Speaker 02

  And nobody will tell us why.

• 16:05Tucker Carlson?

  So, no, I've never heard any of that before, but as a general matter, there's very clearly a coordinated longstanding effort by the US government, specifically US government, to bat away speculation about the past.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:23Tucker Carlson?

  And to shut down any thinking about whether or not the things we're looking at could be supernatural in any way. They're all natural phenomenon. That's, that's what we know. But anything that suggests like supernatural is just ruthlessly put down.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  I wouldn't see giants as supernatural. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's an animal. That's a creature. That's a mammal.

• 16:45Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  So I don't know why that is so dangerous.

• 16:49Tucker Carlson?

  I don't, I don't either. I mean, but that's kind of the question. Like you see the truth in the reaction, I guess is what I'm saying. Like why, why would you, why do you care?

• 16:57Speaker 02

  Right. For how long, you know, how long were the Clovis people were the first people in America? And that was, if you said that anyone was here before them, you were ridiculed. But we keep finding artifacts that are older and older and thousands of years older. And of course, nobody from the Pacific could have made it to the Americas that long ago. But that's been proven that tribes in East Ecuador on the Atlantic side have DNA from Polynesian people that goes back thousands of years. So there has been contact of civilizations going back as far as we can remember.

• 17:32Tucker Carlson?

  Clearly. And we know that from sacred art, ancient art on, you know, five different continents. We see the same images, the bird man, the purse.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:42Tucker Carlson?

  So I mean, I think you've done work on this and it's like, what is the explanation for that? How could people living on separate continents before transatlantic communication come up with precisely the same images? Clearly they're responding to something that they're all seeing.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:58Tucker Carlson?

  Or they must be communicating. So what, what is that?

• 18:01Tucker Carlson?

  The Birdman, for example, this image, which is throughout Latin and North America, also Europe, also Africa, also the Near East, also the Far East, it's a sacred image carved on walls, on pottery of a bird-faced man with wings. What is that? How they all think of it? Easter Island?

• 18:21Speaker 02

  Easter Island is, yeah, is also very, very strange. The Birdman, I think, boy, I can get really woo-woo with this. It could be a metaphor for a sky god. It could be-

• 18:33Tucker Carlson?

  Or an angel.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  Or, or an angel.

• 18:35Tucker Carlson?

  Looks a lot like the angels described in the Old Testament, just saying.

• 18:38Speaker 02

  It, it does. And there are plenty of passages in both Old and New Testament, and even in, in apocryphal works like Book of Enoch, where describing angels, but describing them in a way that sound kind of like the Birdman, or sound almost like an alien entity. I think it was maybe the Book of Daniel describes a man who's, who's glowing with topaz. And Elijah was taken up to heaven. No one's allowed to mortally go to heaven, but he was taken and shown. And Ezekiel talks all about visions of this futuristic city that he thought was

• 19:20Speaker 02

  going to be a new temple of Solomon, but it sounds like a city. And in-

• 19:25Tucker Carlson?

  That's after he describes UFOs as wheels in the sky and all that.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  Those are the wheel, but that shows up over and over again. And Enoch is also taken up by Uriel and shown how the winds are made. And he describes the heavens in, in ways that we're not supposed to know at that time. So there's some, there's something to it. All religions have these. If the Vedic texts have very similar stories to these, where Darjuna goes up and sees the heavens and sees these flying vehicles that were called Vamana, that Vamana are described in such detail that they describe the technology of how they worked with rotating mercury and, and, and engineering specifications in texts that are the thousand B.C. Same with Buddhist Hindu. It's, it's all, all very similar stories.

• 20:16Tucker Carlson?

  Coming back to the pyramids.

• 20:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 20:18Tucker Carlson?

  So, we don't know when they were built. We, because how could we know? But the Egyptian government and the archaeological community is totally vested in telling us they know exactly when these were built. But in point of fact, we don't know and can't know. No mummies have been found in the pyramids. I didn't know that till you told me. But critically, from my perspective, it was like, how were they built? Do we know?

• 20:40Speaker 02

  We don't really know. The conventional story is ramps and pulleys.

• 20:45Tucker Carlson?

  Right?

• 20:47Speaker 02

  But I, you know, I think it's been mathematically shown that the amount of ramps and pulleys and equipment that you would need to build the pyramids would exceed the weight of the pyramids themselves. I mean, how long does the ramp have to be to go up? I mean, it just doesn't make any sense. No one can really explain it. And the precision of how these stones were cut, we can only barely match it now. And this is, this is supposed to be Bronze Age.

• 21:18Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  Done with bronze.

• 21:19Tucker Carlson?

  Soft metal.

• 21:20Speaker 02

  Soft metal, cutting the hardest granite in the world. It defies explanation, but that's the explanation. And why, why is the pyramid made of all these different materials? Why not just make it out of the, whatever sandstone you have lying around? Why, why bring in toura limestone? Why use rose granite in certain places?

• 21:41Tucker Carlson?

  I didn't know that.

• 21:43Speaker 02

  Well, rose granite is, is very special because it's highly piezoelectric, meaning if you apply pressure to it, it creates voltage. So that's one of the theories about the pyramid is the Grand Gallery leading up to the King's Chamber is lined with rose granite. You don't see it anywhere else in the pyramid. So that's highly conductive. The exterior of the pyramid was covered in toura limestone, which is an insulator. So you have this structure that's almost designed like an electricity generator. And then you have the Queen's Chamber and some other shafts where there's chemical residue that when combined create an enormous amount of hydrogen gas that then flows up through

• 22:26Speaker 02

  the Grand Gallery, expands, creates electricity with this rose granite, which ionizes the air. And then at the time, there were these slats, 24 slats of wood that would create sound and which would amplify. And what's strange is, leading from the Grand Gallery into the King's Chamber is a, is a small hole. I forget what it was. Maybe it's six, three by six. It just happens to be the right size to be a waveguide for hydrogen atoms. So those flow then into the King's Chamber, and this resonates at a frequency. I think it's 440 hertz. It's like an F sharp. And then, and then above the King's Chamber is

• 23:09Speaker 02

  a stone called a relieving stone. And this is said to help relieve the pressure coming from the top of the pyramid. The thing is, it doesn't connect to anything. It's perfectly flat on the bottom, but it's chipped on the top, almost as if someone was tuning, chipping away, almost like a tuning fork, to get the right frequency. Now, I'm not saying that's what it is. I'm saying there's a lot of science there that makes you wonder, why did, why go through all this trouble for a tomb? And there's no writing in there.

• 23:39Tucker Carlson?

  There's no writing in the Great Pyramid?

• 23:41Speaker 02

  No, there's no, there's no, there's no writing in there. There was some writing found in expedition, I think it was in the eighties, where a robot was sent in. They found a door with copper handles, which are not supposed to be there. The other side of the door were, it looked like hieroglyphics, but they were not. And that eventually was suppressed. And the explanation was, well, that was like the signature of the masons who built it, or something like that. Well, let's have a look at that footage. Well, you can't really get a hold of that.

• 24:12Tucker Carlson?

  What?

• 24:13Speaker 02

  So I, there's all these strange things about the pyramid that, that we just can't go, we can't dig. I don't know if you saw my episode on the, on the labyrinth at Hawara, but it's, that one really bothers me because that, that's an ancient legend that goes back to Herodotus and even before, talked about this, this labyrinth in Hawara. It's about 50 miles from Cairo. That this labyrinth was enormous, 3,000 rooms. And the priest said this was built by the ancients, the ancient kings. "Oh, you mean the pharaohs?" And they said, "No, no, the ones before, from Zeptepe, which was the first time." Well, the labyrinth was talked about by Herodotus, by Pliny, by Strabo, by all these famous historians.

• 24:58Speaker 02

  It's there, it's there, it's there, it's bustling. And eventually it just sort of disappears from history and becomes a legend. Well, it gets rediscovered in the early, like, late 19th century.

• 25:11Tucker Carlson?

  During the colonial period?

• 25:13Speaker 02

  Yes. But we're not allowed to dig or go down there. But recent technology like ground penetrating radar, lidar from space, shows that there's stuff down there. The explorer who found it thought he found the foundation of the labyrinth, was very excited about it. It turned out what he found was the roof. So the lidar is showing these giant spaces underneath the ground that are feet thick of heavy granite with all these spaces in between. And in the center of this giant atrium is a 150-foot metallic ring that nobody can explain.

• 25:56Speaker 02

  And, boy, I'd like permission to dig or see what's down there. And the tragedy is the water table is eroding all of that away. And geologists are saying, "Look, we have to preserve this because this is going to be gone in 100 years, 200 years. We can't stop..." The answer is no. Can't dig, we're not going to prevent the water from eroding it, leave it be.

• 26:19Tucker Carlson?

  The incuriosity about the monuments, ancient monuments in Egypt, is pretty shocking. I mean, it was only when the French showed up briefly that we got the Rosetta Stone and figured out what hieroglyphics were. And it was only under the British that any of this was excavated, Howard Carter was British, who found King Tut's tomb. It's like, and then the Brits leave after the Second World War, and it's like, not really a huge effort to find out anything else. Like, what is that?

• 26:44Speaker 02

  Is it Egyptian national pride? I don't know. These things are more important than any nation.

• 26:51Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 26:52Speaker 02

  So I don't know.

• 26:54Tucker Carlson?

  But do you think the Egyptian government, which is the second largest recipient of USAID, maybe that's related in some way, has actively covered up information about its monuments?

• 27:04Speaker 02

  Yes. I mean, we have evidence of it.

• 27:07Tucker Carlson?

  Tell me.

• 27:08Speaker 02

  There's, I think it was called the tomb of the birds was discovered not too long ago. I forgot the scientist. I wish I remembered his name. I recently did an episode on him. I just discovered this ancient tomb, these caverns in Egypt. They're, I mean, it's sprawling and it's clearly manmade and there's artifacts and there's writings, all these kinds of things. And he does the right thing and reports it to the authorities. Well, he's banned from the country and...

• 27:35Tucker Carlson?

  What?

• 27:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, thrown out. He's banned from the country, can no longer do any research. And Zayouas says, oh, we always knew that was there. And...

• 27:45Tucker Carlson?

  Who did you sort of choose? Zayouas?

• 27:47Speaker 02

  Zayouas, once again. He was, his title was something like the supreme leader of the council of Egyptian antiquities, some crazy title. And he's still running interference. He's supposedly retired, but he still runs interference. And there's video of him rappelling down into the caves, kind of exploring them, saying, "Look at what I have discovered."

• 28:10Tucker Carlson?

  So what do you think the motive is there?

• 28:12Speaker 02

  Some of that is ego. I don't know the deeper political motives. I really don't know of whether it's Egypt or our government. I don't know, but it bothers me.

• 28:24Tucker Carlson?

  So what do you think, since we don't know anything, like the basic questions, if this were, we were writing a police report, we'd have to leave every line blank because we just don't know. When was it built? Who built it? How did they build it? Unknown, unknown, unknown. So since you know a great deal about this topic, hypothesize for a minute, what do you think this is?

• 28:45Speaker 02

  I think the clearest evidence comes from maybe Robert Schock's work, John Anthony West, and certainly Randall Carlson, at the erosion patterns at the base of the Sphinx. You've heard about this?

• 28:56Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, yes.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  Which clearly shows-

• 28:58Tucker Carlson?

  Water.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  Water, and a lot of it, a lot of water moving at high speed for a long time, which would indicate a great flood. And I think all of these stories kind of go back to the one "the" story, which is the story of the great flood, that probably connects to the end of the Younger Dryas, whether that's the Greenland impact theory, or a solar event, or whatever it is. Something happened that caused worldwide floods and eroded that Sphinx, which means it was there 13,500 years ago, or older.

• 29:36Tucker Carlson?

  These would be the floods that the Old Testament says were sent to eliminate the Nephilim.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  Correct. Or there's another story of Napistim, I don't know if you know him, he's from Gilgamesh. And his story goes like this. One of the gods, Enki, who is, you may know as an Anunnaki god, Enki tells Napistim, "A flood is coming to reset mankind. I want you to build a boat. Here are the specifications. Take your family on the boat, take the animals on the boat. The floods come, he's saved, he releases a dove and a raven, he finds land, he lands on a mountain, he offers a sacrifice, and he's granted immortality with God." And that story sounds awfully familiar.

• 30:20Tucker Carlson?

  It does, indeed. And, tell me again, where is this story?

• 30:26Speaker 02

  That's in Gilgamesh.

• 30:27Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, that's in Gilgamesh? How did I miss that?

• 30:30Speaker 02

  It's because it's a small part of it. Gilgamesh is a heroic epic.

• 30:34Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  This is a side story, but it's interesting that it's telling the story of Noah, right down to the dove and the raven.

• 30:41Tucker Carlson?

  That's wild.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  The only thing different is I think they're reversed, and I think the dove comes back with the olive branch, or something, and Noah is-

• 30:48Tucker Carlson?

  Is there physical evidence around the world of a great flood?

• 30:51Speaker 02

  Yes, all over the place.

• 30:55Speaker 02

  Carlson's work is fascinating about the erosion patterns all across Africa that show the, if you look at it from high in the sky, it looks like these kind of just waves across the landscape, but these waves are 30 feet high. So these are, this is three-story buildings indicating an immense amount of water, millions and millions of gallons of water per second just rushing across the landscape. And we see that across, across Africa, a desert.

• 31:28Tucker Carlson?

  What about in the continental United States?

• 31:32Speaker 02

  Not as much. I, you know, I could be wrong about that because, because the ice sheets would have come from the North American continent. So how they get to Africa, I'm not exactly sure. But we certainly have evidence of, of the glaciers moving and, and retreating very quickly in the United States. I mean, that's how Long Island was made, other parts.

• 31:52Tucker Carlson?

  Of course. I mean, the whole country was, was sculpted by them not that long ago.

• 31:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:57Tucker Carlson?

  Maine was covered in 11,000 years ago.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  Right.

• 31:59Tucker Carlson?

  It's like yesterday.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 32:00Tucker Carlson?

  The pyramids were there.

• 32:02Speaker 02

  They were there.

• 32:02Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 32:03Speaker 02

  I mean, Gobekli Tepe is another thing that we can't explicitly, Gobekli Tepe is pre-flood. This is a pre-Diluvian structure, not supposed to have-

• 32:11Tucker Carlson?

  Where is it?

• 32:12Speaker 02

  In Turkey. That's, that's where all the good stuff is, in Turkey.

• 32:18Tucker Carlson?

  Tell us what that is.

• 32:19Speaker 02

  Gobekli Tepe is an ancient site. It's about 13,000 years old. Could be wrong on the date, but I'm pretty close. And it's, it's pillars arranged in, that align with astrological formations, that align with the seasons. They're carved with intricate designs, animals, writing, all kinds of stuff. And we're not supposed to have, we're supposed to be hunter-gatherers with, you know, with spears and buffalo at this point, not building these immense structures. And what's really strange about Gobekli Tepe-

• 32:50Tucker Carlson?

  That's not hunter-gatherer behavior.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  No, it is not. That's very sophisticated behavior.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  It appears that it was buried intentionally. I can't explain why, but maybe it was someone knew something was coming and we need to protect this site, but that's very strange. That's not even the oldest structure we've found. Karantepi is even older than Quebec Lee. So how?

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• 34:32Speaker 00

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• 35:27Tucker Carlson?

  Well, the first thing I think you just have to admit to yourself is the descriptions of the societies that created these are just completely false. Like, this is not hunter-gatherer, primitive agrarian, whatever they're telling you people had for civilizations 13,000 years ago is just not true. Because if you're, if you're cutting stone with that level of precision, barely achievable now. We don't understand your technology very well, right?

• 35:55Speaker 02

  Certainly not. Because, look, at Stonehenge, which came thousands of years later, it's an amazing place, but it's stones in a circle. Yeah, now, they're aligned perfectly and all of that. It's, it's certainly a wonder of the world. But if you look at Stonehenge compared to Gobekli Tepe, it's, Stonehenge looks, it's almost like, kids made this with clay. Gobekli Tepe is a work of art. It's unbelievable.

• 36:20Tucker Carlson?

  Petra in Jordan.

• 36:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 36:22Tucker Carlson?

  You know, it's miles down a wadi, down a box canyon, and totally inhospitable. You get to the end of the box canyon, and there's this, like, most evolved, intricate series of buildings carved into the cliff sides. Like, there's no, there's not a stonemason on planet Earth right now who could do that.

• 36:40Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 36:40Tucker Carlson?

  Period. It's like, what's that? Who did that? And they're like, oh, wow, you know, our ancestors did it. How'd they do that? Oh, with sandpaper or something? Slaves? No? That's not true.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  No. That's not, that's not how it happened.

• 36:57Tucker Carlson?

  As you push forward a little bit on this stuff, you get to the question of technology. Like, what was the technology that built all this stuff? It wasn't bronze hands tool, hand tools.

• 37:07Speaker 02

  No. They will say that it was, they poured water or sand over the stone and used some type of mechanism to grind it away.

• 37:19Tucker Carlson?

  They did it with abrasives.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  With abrasives. But there's no evidence of that. These, these stones are polished. They're immaculate. Some of the stones inside the structures are polished so well that they're like mirrors. So abrasives can't do that.

• 37:36Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, I've seen them. And I, I, it just, I, but I was lulled to sleep by the lies that like, you know, it's just incredible. It's like, how many man hours would that take?

• 37:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 37:46Tucker Carlson?

  About a billion.

• 37:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 37:48Tucker Carlson?

  Like, this didn't happen that way? So do we, is there any hint as to what the technology was that these civilizations possessed?

• 37:56Speaker 02

  Only, only legends? There are legends of acoustic levitation that are found in a lot of different cultures.

• 38:03Tucker Carlson?

  What's acoustic levitation?

• 38:04Speaker 02

  Specifically Buddhist. There's, there's even a British scientist who has allegedly filmed this, where Buddhists would sing and play instruments at a certain frequency that would cause objects to levitate. And that's part of the legend of how these megaliths were built, was some type of sound waves allowed them to lift these objects and place them perfectly into place.

• 38:30Tucker Carlson?

  What's a megalith?

• 38:31Speaker 02

  A giant stone.

• 38:32Tucker Carlson?

  Giant stone. So there are giant stones around the world that are so large. Again, there's no modern stone cutting that produces stones that big.

• 38:43Speaker 02

  There is not.

• 38:44Tucker Carlson?

  There's nothing even, go to the New York Public Library or whatever granite building you think is impressive, and it's nothing compared to these stones.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  Right, and you can, you can pick at the mortar between those bricks, and they're kind of, it's kind of slipshod compared to the things that were, you know, made thousands of years ago.

• 39:00Tucker Carlson?

  So I'm just saying the same thing over and over, but like, how could you not look at that and ask questions?

• 39:04Speaker 02

  I, you know, why is Atlantis such a taboo subject with science? It's because I think it goes back to the same thing we're talking about.

• 39:12Tucker Carlson?

  So what, what is Atlantis? What do we know about Atlantis? Like a byword for conspiracy theory, but like, what actually is it?

• 39:18Speaker 02

  Um, we first learned about Atlantis from Plato, who talked about it in his dialogues.

• 39:24Tucker Carlson?

  Was he a conspiracy theorist, do you think?

• 39:26Speaker 02

  Yes, I think so. I think so. People call him a whack job. Um, and Plato described it in the dialogues for Plato, dialogues, just he plays characters. So in, I think it's Cretes, he talks about hearing the story from Solon, who was like his great, great uncle, who heard a story from an Egyptian priest about this ancient land beyond the arms of Hercules, which people think is probably the Iraq or Gibraltar. And it's a large continent, larger than India, and it's populated by advanced people. And there's a cataclysm and it goes underwater.

• 40:06Speaker 02

  And he describes concentric rings and waterways and all this technology, if you want to call it that. And what's interesting about Atlantis, and a lot of people don't talk about this, is in, um, in Cretes 2, which is, which is, which is Plato's telling of it, he's writing about Atlantis and he stops mid-sentence. And that's the end of it. There's no more, there's no more writing about Atlantis. So that's, that's the earliest story we have of it. And there are strange structures around the world that could indicate maybe Atlantis. The Eye of the Sahara is a very interesting structure. I don't think that's it. Um, it's also called the Reshot Structure. I don't know if you've seen this.

• 40:48Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  It's in Western Africa. If you look at it, it's concentric rings.

• 40:52Tucker Carlson?

  Is it underwater?

• 40:53Speaker 02

  No. And it's concentric rings and it looks like it fits the description. Now, someone like Randall Carlson, who's a paleo hydrologist, which I learned was a thing, uh, says it's not. And I tend to believe him because it's, it's built more like a dome and, uh, it's been above water for millions of years. So it's probably not it, but it's worth looking at.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  But there are places like Bimini Road, which are very hard to explain. That's in the Bahamas. That's long. These are right angles that are submerged underwater. There's something that looks like a city buried under Cuba. That's definitely been there for 20,000 years.

• 41:35Tucker Carlson?

  In the water?

• 41:36Speaker 02

  Underwater. And the Yanaguni Monument off of Japan. We've got these giant.

• 41:41Tucker Carlson?

  Amazing thing.

• 41:42Speaker 02

  These are all right angles.

• 41:43Tucker Carlson?

  In shallow water?

• 41:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 41:45Tucker Carlson?

  It's like an underwater temple off Japan and like 12 feet of water or something.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  You can dive it, yeah. But no, but it's if you start talking about these things, you're you're a kook.

• 41:56Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's on video and you can watch it. And and the official position, correct me, please, if I'm wrong, but the official position of the Japanese government is rock formations.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  Yes, rock, that's it. It rock formations, natural.

• 42:08Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  No.

• 42:09Tucker Carlson?

  Like it's this elaborate, non-natural, non-random building.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  I'll give you one right angle. I'll let you have one right angle. I won't let you have two. I can't.

• 42:21Tucker Carlson?

  Well, there are a lot.

• 42:22Speaker 02

  But there's a lot.

• 42:24Tucker Carlson?

  And this was discovered pretty recently by like fishermen or something.

• 42:26Speaker 02

  This was.

• 42:28Tucker Carlson?

  Wow, it's just absolutely amazing. Um, okay. So here's what we've established. We've established that the our view of the of prehistory is completely just wrong because the physical remains of these civilizations prove our theories wrong. This couldn't happen. We know that world governments, not simply ours, but others, Japanese in this case, seem to be very committed to stopping questions about this, halting curiosity, shaming people, maybe worse. Um, so is it fair to say that there were civilizations as in some ways as advanced as ours 10s of thousands of years ago?

• 43:11Speaker 02

  I can't make that leap. I'd like to, but I can't make that leap because I feel like there would be evidence of that. And I think this is where Graham Hancock gets criticized unfairly because he's never said that there's been, you know, Atlanteans with flying ships or anything like that. All he said is we may have been more advanced than we've been led to believe, and it deserves some more explanation.

• 43:32Tucker Carlson?

  That's obviously true. I mean, like, it's not a linear progression. So like the history that I learned, always interested in history, is that you had this kind of flowering civilization in the West. China's different, but in the West, centered at Athens and then Rome.

• 43:46Tucker Carlson?

  And then Rome fell in the fifth century and you had this thing called the Dark Ages, where we stopped building aqueducts and steam baths. And then it reemerged during the Renaissance. But basically, it was like a linear progression from the caves to the moonshot. You know, just like technology building on itself, human civilization becoming ever more complex. And but it was in a straight line. That's just clearly not true.

• 44:12Speaker 02

  No, and certainly not in Egypt, where we have basically nothing. And then suddenly we have hieroglyphics and astronomy and all and mathematics. Everybody knows the Pythagorean theorem. Everybody knows that. Pythagoras learned that in Egypt. That's he's he's credited with that. But that's Egyptian mathematics. That's correct. Yes.

• 44:31Tucker Carlson?

  So, um.

• 44:32Speaker 02

  Which leads us back to Aristotle, which is back to Plato.

• 44:37Tucker Carlson?

  Just to be clear, the current occupants of Egypt, the Egyptians are not, I don't think, related to the ancient Egyptians. Is that fair to say?

• 44:45Speaker 02

  I think I think they are.

• 44:47Tucker Carlson?

  They are?

• 44:48Speaker 02

  I think genetically, certainly.

• 44:50Tucker Carlson?

  They are. Okay. I don't know why I thought that. Maybe I'm thinking of Greece. Um, okay.

• 44:56Tucker Carlson?

  But civilization can certainly go backward, like much farther backward than medieval Europe went from Rome.

• 45:03Speaker 02

  Certainly.

• 45:04Tucker Carlson?

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• 46:16Speaker 00

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• 47:10Tucker Carlson?

  First, the pyramids have been not that explored, as noted, but ground penetrating radar has been applied recently to the Great Pyramid.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 47:21Tucker Carlson?

  I think from an airplane, but maybe that's wrong.

• 47:23Speaker 02

  And satellite.

• 47:24Tucker Carlson?

  Satellite, okay. And the headline for like one day was, holy smokes, massive chambers discovered under Great Pyramid of Giza.

• 47:35Tucker Carlson?

  Is, what is that? Is that real?

• 47:37Speaker 02

  I'm skeptical of it. I'm hopeful, but I'm skeptical. That Italian group has not been peer reviewed as of yet. I think they're seeking it. So I don't, you know, it's kind of one of those clickbait stories where they, when you actually see the images, it's really just colored stripes. But then when it lands in the news, it's these pillars with spirals and all this magical stuff. That's, that's not what I see in the data, but you know, maybe it is there. We know that the Great Pyramid has strange properties. We know there's, there is space down there, and there's space all underneath the plateau.

• 48:19Tucker Carlson?

  We know that.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  We know that for sure.

• 48:21Tucker Carlson?

  Are these natural caverns?

• 48:23Speaker 02

  I, no, I don't think so.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  You know, there's been, there's been legends about the, the, the chambers under the Sphinx that go back a long time. And, you know, if you want to get very woo woo about it, there's been psychics who've explored that. Someone like Edgar Cayce, who's a famous psychic, who said, "That's where the Hall of Records is stored," which is interesting because that connects back to the labyrinth as well, which is, which some people think could be the actual Hall of Records. But I mean, I'll tell you a very strange story about Dorothy Edie, if you have a moment.

• 49:01Tucker Carlson?

  I do have a moment, and I love strange stories.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  Dorothy Edie was, um, she was born early 1900s in, in England. She's, she's a troubled child. She's unhappy all the time. She's taken to the British Museum when she's three or four years old, and she, they go to the Egyptian section, and she suddenly lights up. And she, um, she runs over to the, the mummy of, I think it's Ramses, and she says, "I know him." And they think she's a wacky kid. She's still, she's still kind of despondent. She gets a, a book from her dad about ancient Egypt, and she's going through it. And she says she recognizes all these places, Temple of Seti and Abydos, all these things. And

• 49:46Speaker 02

  she starts studying at the British Museum, and for some reason, she takes the hieroglyphics very, very quickly, and ancient languages very, very quickly. She claims that she's a reincarnated Egyptian priestess that worked in, that worked and lived in Abydos, you know, thousands of years during the fourth dynasty, something like that. She eventually goes over to Egypt, and she shows up, and she's, she says, "I'm reincarnated Egyptian priestess." Of course you are. Um, she's, "I can prove it." They take her to these tombs or underground chambers, and they say, "All right, show us around." And she says, "Let's go." And she says, "This is where the gardens were. This is where the fountain was. This is where this was."

• 50:29Speaker 02

  She's so good at this that the Egyptian authorities take her on staff with antiquities. And she's able to describe in detail all of these ancient places that nobody knows anything about. This is a reincarnation story. Yet she is embedded in the scientific community. She is invaluable to Egyptian research, so much so that at that time you were forced to retire at age 65. And this is a woman, by the way, working in the 50s and 60s in Egypt. She's allowed to stay on until she wants to retire because she's invaluable to the research. She says that underneath the Sphinx is where we're going to find all sorts of tombs and artifacts of Nefertiti and all these famous people.

• 51:14Speaker 02

  She says they're down there. I don't know, but her story is very compelling to me.

• 51:19Tucker Carlson?

  All right. Well, so I mean, this is like one of these speculations you could probably prove if you tried.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 51:25Tucker Carlson?

  But we lack the technology to dig now?

• 51:29Speaker 02

  Can't dig.

• 51:31Tucker Carlson?

  But we certainly have ground penetrating radar.

• 51:34Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 51:35Tucker Carlson?

  Presumably if that was employed by the Egyptian authorities, you know, over time, you could get a pretty detailed picture of what's underneath, no?

• 51:42Speaker 02

  Well, like with Hawara, their labyrinth, they didn't see permission to scan it. They just did. The permission has to come, but you still have to get your hands in the dirt. So we can scan all we want, but unless permission's granted to dig, we're just not going to know.

• 51:57Tucker Carlson?

  And what would be the rationale for not allowing people to pursue their curiosity in science and all that?

• 52:03Speaker 02

  Again, I don't know. With the Hawara labyrinth, the excuse is if we disrupt the site, then there's a canal there. It will disrupt the local agriculture, which is very important to that region. So we can't disrupt the farm, the farmers.

• 52:19Tucker Carlson?

  Okay.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  That's the reason.

• 52:22Tucker Carlson?

  And the Great Pyramids?

• 52:24Speaker 02

  Why we can't dig, I don't know. But we shouldn't, we should also acknowledge that there is exploration happening. I mean, I think Pharaoh Tutankhamun II was just discovered with a few weeks ago in the Valley of the Kings. So people are looking. I just, I don't think they're looking exactly in the right places.

• 52:43Tucker Carlson?

  There was a disk found in a tomb in Egypt, maybe 100 years ago. That looks to be, it's made out of basalt, it's made out of stone. But it looks, it's the most modern thing you've ever seen. And I would encourage people to look it up if you're on your phone right now. Well, just look up Egyptian tomb disk. And it looks like an impeller, maybe, and a motor, an electric motor. But clearly, that was not created by a primitive civilization.

• 53:11Speaker 02

  No.

• 53:11Tucker Carlson?

  It's the most precisely, first of all, how do you machine basalt? Okay, it's not hand carved, obviously, look at it.

• 53:19Tucker Carlson?

  What's the explanation for that?

• 53:20Speaker 02

  I, I don't think there is one. I don't think there is one. I would like to know how they carved that. Basalt would be lava rock, igneous rock?

• 53:27Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  The hardest rock on earth? I don't.

• 53:29Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, is it the hardest?

• 53:31Speaker 02

  Well, it's not like diamond, but copper's not gonna get through that.

• 53:35Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. And it's so precise.

• 53:37Speaker 02

  It's perfect.

• 53:38Tucker Carlson?

  It's, it's perfect.

• 53:40Speaker 02

  Perfect.

• 53:41Tucker Carlson?

  And it, you look at it for about 15 seconds, you're like, no, no, no. Ancient culture did not make that, at least the ancient cultures that have been described to me.

• 53:48Speaker 02

  Not just the machining, but the, the mathematics. I mean, it's perfect.

• 53:51Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's a good point. The design. Huh. Okay.

• 53:58Tucker Carlson?

  So do we have any hint of the energy? So clearly, the missing piece here is energy. The, these, the megaliths, including the ones in the United States, the massive structures in the American Midwest and in Florida. Earth and earthworks. These are not, it was just the math doesn't work on the number of man hours required to build any of this stuff. A lot of the temples in Latin America, Anchor Watt, like. Clearly, it's not just somebody with a bronze knife making this stuff.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  It's not. Namada is another one with these, that's, that's Polynesia also, that these.

• 54:35Speaker 02

  Tons, these, they almost look like Lincoln Logs, but they're 10, 20 tons, they're, they're huge. No one knows how they could have been put into place. And.

• 54:44Tucker Carlson?

  They still stand.

• 54:45Speaker 02

  They still stand. We don't know when they were built or how long ago. But if you look at it from the air, you can see they had a sewer system. They devised a way to get fresh water through this whole society, but nobody knows who built this.

• 54:57Tucker Carlson?

  Or why.

• 54:57Speaker 02

  Or, or why. The why could just be, we live here.

• 55:02Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  What's interesting is sewer system, fresh water. And so this is a long time before Roman aqueducts.

• 55:09Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  But there they are.

• 55:12Tucker Carlson?

  So what, what the explanation lacks is a, is an energy source. It's not just biceps. And does, has anyone put forward a, like a reasonable hypothesis on that?

• 55:24Speaker 02

  I mean, it depends how you define reasonable.

• 55:27Tucker Carlson?

  Of course it does plausible, I guess is what I would say.

• 55:30Speaker 02

  Plausible, not, nothing that satisfies me. Copper doesn't work. The abrasives don't work for me. Acoustic levitation I like, but it's, it's really hard to prove. And I'm, acoustic levitation is, is a thing. You can levitate things with sound. That's, that is proven. Giant stones, we, we can't do that. But just because we can't, doesn't mean someone else could.

• 55:52Tucker Carlson?

  Are you sure we can't?

• 55:56Tucker Carlson?

  I guess it's another way of, another way of putting it would be, are you convinced that the US government is totally transparent about energy?

• 56:04Speaker 02

  No, no, I think they're totally opaque about energy.

• 56:08Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 56:08Speaker 02

  Oh, yes. Um, I think the US government probably has unlocked zero point or close to zero point energy, which would be pulling energy out of the vacuum. We have inventors that have done that over and over and over.

• 56:27Tucker Carlson?

  And they're making energy of apparently nothing.

• 56:30Speaker 02

  Well, we can start with, there was someone, there's a man named Charles Pogue, who in the 30s tinkered with his carburetor and was able to get 200 miles a gallon. It was proven. It was engineers investigated, scientists, it's totally proven. It worked. He was going to be a zillionaire or whatever. He's going to transform society. And the problem was, once the news of his engine got out, the oil stocks crashed. They just crashed. So the oil industry. Lobby the US government, we have to do something about this. And in 1951, the Invention Secrecy Act is passed. So now, if you patent any device that is more than 20% efficient, that's instantly classified.

• 57:15Speaker 02

  That is now a state secret. What? It's vital to national security. You can't talk about it. You can't build it. And you can't sell it unless you sell it to the US military. You cannot do it.

• 57:30Speaker 02

  That went on for a while. And then there was a man named Tom Ogil. And Tom is, this is the 70s now. He accidentally rewires his lawnmower engine to take the exhaust and pump it back into the carburetor. And this thing runs on a gallon of gas for 78 hours or something like that. So he reconfigures his car. It's like a 1976 Ford Galaxy, you know, like a boat. And he's getting 200 miles to the gallon on the thing. He's offered a billion dollars from an oil-producing country. Shell Oil offers him $25 million for the patent that he considers, but they're going to shelve it. So he says, no.

• 58:14Speaker 02

  It's considered, you know, maybe one of the biggest inventions of the century. Suddenly, Tom, without a history of drug use, stumbles out of a bar. He's drunk and he's killed. And that's the end of Tom Ogil's story. And that all disappears. All that research goes away. And this repeats over and over and over again till we get to Stanley Meyer. And you might remember Stanley Meyer and the water car. Because this is in 1990s now. So now we have a vehicle that doesn't even, we're not even talking about fossil fuels and protecting a multi-trillion-dollar industry. We've got a car that runs on water using electrolysis, which has been around since the 1700s. But electrolysis requires a lot of energy

• 58:58Speaker 02

  and perfect water without impurities. But Stanley's figured out how to take tap water, put it into his car, and run his car on water. And what it does is splits the water into hydrogen, oxygen, runs in hydrogen. Hydrogen is a fuel. It works. And it works. And he drives it all over the place. It's all over the news. Engineers look at it. They say, this is the invention of the century. This changes everything. He's offered a billion dollars and millions of dollars. And everyone wants his engine. And...

• 59:27Speaker 02

  He's sitting at, I think he was sitting at a Cracker Barrel with his brother and some investors and they raise a glass to toast the new investment going to the future and they take their toast and Stanley suddenly doesn't feel well. He runs outside, he starts vomiting. His brother chases after him and says, "What's going on?" And Stanley says, "They poisoned me" and he dies. And in the medical examiner's report, it says he died of an aneurysm. But if you read the report, you can tell the medical examiner didn't really like that because he wrote some other stuff like, "He said he was poisoned, but toxicology doesn't really show it," but he says he died of an aneurysm. And that technology's now gone. The patent's useless because Stanley faked the numbers because he didn't trust

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  the government because he had another invention that most people don't know about before his water car, which was this toroid ring. A toroid is a donut. This donut-shaped ring that he invented that created energy out of nothing and levitated. But he patented it and got hit with the secrecy act and they made his life miserable. But people started to learn about that. And that brings us, there are other inventors in between. T. Tom and, T. Tom's and Townsend Brown invents this anti-gravity technology. He runs into all kinds of bad luck. All these men have their research stolen, they're broken into,

• 1:00:53Speaker 02

  they're carrying guns, they're threatened, they're disappearing. It happens over and over and over again. I have an episode on this, it's very sad. And we get to Floyd Sweet, Floyd Sparky Sweet, who's, he's my favorite because his inventions, he videotaped all of his stuff. And you see him in his workshop, and Sparky, he's an engineer, this is, this is, he's a garage tinkerer, but he's, he's an engineer. And this was supervised by a military physicist, maybe it was a mistake. And you see him running a fan at high RPMs and then he's got light bulbs, all of this energy, and it's all running

• 1:01:32Speaker 02

  off this little box the size of a deck of cards. And he puts in 0.03 milliwatts and he gets out all the watts you want. It's a device that no matter what you attach to it, it just, whatever the need is, it will give you the energy. This is Sparky Sweet. This actually connects to UFO technology. I don't know if we'll go there, but it, but it does connect. So Sparky's got this invention. He gets some help from military physicist. Gets a visit late one night, two men in suits come talk to him, say goodnight. He has a heart attack. Ambulance comes, they, they grab Sparky. The wife is not allowed in the

• 1:02:14Speaker 02

  ambulance. He dies. Uh, soon after, a couple of black vans pull up. They take all his stuff, all his notes, every piece of equipment, and it just disappears. And that's the last we hear of it.

• 1:02:26Tucker Carlson?

  About when was this?

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  I would say this is late 90s. I mean, Stanley Meyer was 1998.

• 1:02:33Tucker Carlson?

  This is recently?

• 1:02:35Speaker 02

  Recently, yeah. Sparky may even be more recent than that.

• 1:02:38Tucker Carlson?

  Is there evidence the US government is using any of this technology? Hyper-efficient, you know, anti-gravity levitation, any of this stuff in like military technology?

• 1:02:48Speaker 02

  I mean, you can argue that the go-fast video, the tic-tac, some of these could be that. I tend to think they are.

• 1:02:55Tucker Carlson?

  So there was a kind of tantalizing, um, almost kind of shocking admission the other day from the US government that during the Maduro snatch operation in Caracas on January 3rd, that the US military used, apparently used directed energy weapons? I don't know that anyone's ever said out loud. I don't know if they said it out loud, but it was, I mean, it was obvious that's what it was.

• 1:03:20Speaker 02

  That they have been very interested in those since Tesla's research.

• 1:03:23Tucker Carlson?

  So tell us what they are.

• 1:03:25Speaker 02

  Directed energy weapons. And with, with Tesla, he had a few different versions about ionizing air and, and projecting electricity through the air. He had a few different ways of doing it. And I don't have the science background to explain specifically what it is, but directed energy is just that. You take energy, like a laser is, would be a directed energy, but using it as a weapon. And Tesla was working on that technology, but what, what he wanted to do was create free energy for the world, which turned out to be a problem for him. And that's another story. But when he died, um, so he died, I think it was January 7th, 1943, the FBI was there. They were, they were like on top of

• 1:04:05Speaker 02

  it. Um, they came way too fast. And all his research, 60, 80 boxes were confiscated.

• 1:04:15Speaker 02

  By the Office of Alien Property, which has nothing to do with extraterrestrials. It's about Office of Alien Property because he's not a US-born, so they come and take his research, although he was a citizen since, I don't know, the 1800s. He'd been a citizen 50 years. So they seize his property and they send it to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base for a scientist named John Trump to investigate Tesla's research specifically looking-

• 1:04:42Tucker Carlson?

  Later an MIT professor?

• 1:04:44Speaker 02

  Yes, and later an uncle of a president. And they're specifically looking for DEWs. That's the technology they want. They finally return Tesla's boxes to-

• 1:04:53Tucker Carlson?

  Are you sure it was John Trump who received Tesla's effects?

• 1:04:57Speaker 02

  Yes. That's documented.

• 1:05:02Tucker Carlson?

  Actually?

• 1:05:03Speaker 02

  Yes, but what's-

• 1:05:05Tucker Carlson?

  You know, for a country of hundreds of millions of people, we have these weird coincidences a lot.

• 1:05:08Speaker 02

  Isn't it strange? And the same families show up over and over?

• 1:05:13Speaker 02

  It's probably not the episode to get into the Bush family, but boy, I'd love to one day. I want to do an episode on them. I don't talk about the Bushes or the Clintons on my show, or Mossad.

• 1:05:23Tucker Carlson?

  I think you're a wise man.

• 1:05:25Speaker 02

  So the boxes-

• 1:05:26Tucker Carlson?

  That is wild. I've talked to Trump about his uncle like 20 times. He's very proud of his uncle.

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  The last point on that?

• 1:05:32Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  20 boxes are missing, and we don't know where they are. That's the last point on that. We don't know where the boxes are.

• 1:05:39Tucker Carlson?

  But you're sure it was the same John Trump that the president talks about? He's a long-tenured MIT professor. I mean, he talks about him all the time.

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  Brags about him.

• 1:05:48Tucker Carlson?

  All the time?

• 1:05:49Speaker 02

  Yes. And he was connected to military intelligence.

• 1:05:54Tucker Carlson?

  Huh.

• 1:05:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, the home of Project Blue Book UFO research.

• 1:06:00Tucker Carlson?

  So those 20 boxes of Nikola Tesla's research have never surfaced?

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  They have not.

• 1:06:07Tucker Carlson?

  So can you give us, I know many books have been written on this, and you know, famous company was named after Tesla, of course, and all that, but can you just give us the Cliff's Notes version of his life? You said it didn't end well for him. What did you mean?

• 1:06:21Speaker 02

  He was very focused on free energy for the world. He wanted to usher in sort of a new age for humanity, which free energy certainly would do.

• 1:06:31Speaker 02

  He was supported by JP Morgan was his financier. Tesla was not a good businessman. His rival Edison was. He wasn't as talented. But he was good at playing the business game. Tesla was not. So Tesla wanted to create free energy. It was supported by JP Morgan and said, I'm close. Tesla demonstrated free energy by he plugged light bulbs into the ground and had them had them working. So he demonstrated it. And he said to JP Morgan, I just need a little bit more money and we can we can put energy for everyone. Could you just tap into it? And JP Morgan said, well, if energy comes out of the air, where do we put the meter?

• 1:07:15Speaker 02

  You mean free energy, new age of mankind? JP Morgan pulls the funding and funds Edison and Marconi instead. And Tesla's this is Warden Cliff Tower on Long Island where he's doing this research. He goes into fault on the mortgage. They tear it down. He dies in poverty in the New Yorker Hotel in 1943. One of the most brilliant.

• 1:07:35Tucker Carlson?

  Across from Penn Station.

• 1:07:36Speaker 02

  Yes, it is.

• 1:07:38Tucker Carlson?

  One of the grim now migrant hotel.

• 1:07:39Speaker 02

  Yes, it is.

• 1:07:40Tucker Carlson?

  That's where he died.

• 1:07:41Speaker 02

  That's where that's room 3327.

• 1:07:44Tucker Carlson?

  That's a crummy place to die.

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  It is, but there's a good White Castle downstairs.

• 1:07:49Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, I don't think anymore.

• 1:07:50Speaker 02

  Probably not.

• 1:07:52Tucker Carlson?

  Wow. Do we have any sense of what concepts he was working on when he died? Or what might have been in those 20 missing boxes?

• 1:08:02Speaker 02

  It was the directed energy weapons that I that they really wanted. There's a there's a good deal of documentation that the military was interested in that. But specifics, no, we don't have that. We just we just don't know specifically what were in those boxes. His nephew says it was everything to do with energy.

• 1:08:22Tucker Carlson?

  And just for interest sake, John Trump, the uncle of the current president, longtime MIT professor, is there any evidence that he worked on the OAP question?

• 1:08:33Speaker 02

  None that I could find, but if you're at Wright Patterson in the 40s and 50s, that's Project Blue Book. So that's, that's, that's the home base of UFO research.

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  So, you know, whether he's working on it, I can't prove that, but he's certainly passing those guys in the hall. I mean, Blue Book started when 52, so he's involved. He's, you know, he's there.

• 1:08:56Tucker Carlson?

  So I keep hearing this phrase, "remote viewing," which I picture in my head what it is. I don't really know what it is. I don't know if it's real or not. The government's involved. What do you know about remote viewing?

• 1:09:07Speaker 02

  First, tell me what you think it is.

• 1:09:09Tucker Carlson?

  I think remote viewing is, I'm like, actually being a little bit false. I have some sense of what it is.

• 1:09:14Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:09:15Tucker Carlson?

  It's this, it's the ability to see things that are very far from your physical proximity. So like, close your eyes and you can all of a sudden look into a room 1,000 miles away. I know that, I think it's true, that CIA worked to evoke this ability in people. But I kind of want to know the state of play. Is that actually real? Do we know that it's real?

• 1:09:40Speaker 02

  We know that it's real. Remote viewing started, it probably started, you know, at the beginning of the human race. But remote viewing that we're talking about started in 1972, Stanford Research Institute. Russell Targ and Hal Putoff, physicists, scientists, were just studying psychic phenomenon. Just, you know, where, here's a shape on a card, you know, that scene at the beginning of Ghostbusters, this is a star, this is a circle. They're doing that sort of thing. And a man walks in, his name is Ingo Swan, he's become a very famous psychic. And at this point, Targ and Putoff are essentially advertising

• 1:10:24Speaker 02

  on campus, "Psychics Wanted." So he walks in and says, "I'm the best psychic in the world." So they give him a card to read and he says, "Give me something hard to do." And they're like, "Well, like what?" "Send somebody out in the San Francisco Bay area and I'll tell you what, where they are and what they see." It's like, "Okay, we'll do that." So they send somebody out.

• 1:10:48Speaker 02

  And he just starts to kind of focus and concentrate and he starts to draw. You know, I see, I see, I see a water fountain, but it's, but there's no water in it. I see these circles on the ground. I see a building and turns out they got it all right. They described the, the pattern of the walkway. There was a fountain there that was not on that particular day. The building was exactly where they said it was. Then they realized, okay, we have something, something different here than a shape on a card. They said, well, Ingo, where can you go? And he said, I can go anywhere, like anywhere, like anywhere in space and time.

• 1:11:28Speaker 02

  I have a whole episode of Ingo remote viewing the moon, but let's stick with this for now. So they test Ingo Swan a few times. Yuri Geller was, was another one they tested who was able to see things inside safes. And there are a few other psychics. Pat Price is my personal favorite. Joe McMonigal is a very famous one. But what got CIA's attention was in SR, in, in, at Stanford, buried deep underground was a magnetometer. And this was used to measure perturbations in the earth's crust to detect nuclear explosions. So this is an important device.

• 1:12:10Speaker 02

  It's buried underground, shielded by cement, superconducting shielding, like you can't, you can't get to it. Ingo is able to draw what it looks like. And he says, I could even move that needle. I said, go for it. So he moves the needle. Now they're excited, the experiment works, but that needle moving means a nuclear explosion has been off somewhere. So CIA government gets involved. They want to, what's going on? It's not a nuclear explosion. Oh, we are doing this program. And they say, you're doing what? And they're not really, they don't really care that he can move a needle.

• 1:12:51Speaker 02

  They're worried about he can see inside behind cement and that means there's no more secrets. So the CIA starts funding this project through various front companies. And all intelligence agencies want to get involved with this.

• 1:13:10Speaker 02

  It comes, kinda comes to a peak. This is before Pat gets involved, but it's an interesting story. It's called the, it's called the Sugar Grove break-in. There's this CIA analyst, there's a bunch of CIA people there. CIA analyst says, "Here are coordinates." They gives Ingo Swam. "Nobody knows what the coordinates are." The analyst won't tell, nobody, the handlers won't tell, nobody knows. "Here are the coordinates." And Ingo does his thing and he says, "I see a guardhouse. There's a radar, giant radar dish. And there's, it looks like a military. There's accordion roll-up doors, there's jeeps. It's military, it's some type of military installation." He draws it, "The mountains are here, the road's here, there's the river.

• 1:13:54Speaker 02

  Detailed map, says, "That's what I saw." And they gives the analyst, say, "Here, is this it?" And guy's like, "It's not even close. I gave you the coordinates of my vacation house in West Virginia." And they were like, "Ah, shit, okay." So that didn't work. But Pat Price comes along, and Pat Price may be the most talented psychic ever. Here remote views the same location, sees the same things, without knowing anything what Ingo saw. You look at the maps, they're almost identical. Radar dish, guard tower, roll-up doors. But Pat is very talented. He says, "I see a building. I'm going into the building." Let me back up for a second.

• 1:14:36Speaker 02

  Pat Price, retired police officer from Burbank, always had an intuition to solve crimes. "Where's the body?" Price knows. "Where's the suspect hiding?" Price knows. He just thought he had a hunch, but he retired and started to develop this skill. And heard about this program and got involved. So that's Pat Price. So he sees the same things. So now that's clearly not a coincidence. So this is not a log cabin vacation home. What's going on there? So SRI sends someone to the coordinates. They, they find the vacation, they found the log cabin, and they're like, "But there's a dirt road here, about 200 feet." Well, follow the road. And they follow the road down just over the ridge in West Virginia, in Sugar Grove, and there's the guardhouse.

• 1:15:19Speaker 02

  It's a military installation, and they can't, they can't enter, but they could see there's a radar dish.

• 1:15:25Speaker 02

  The problem was Pat Price went into the building. He said, I see green filing cabinets. All right, Pat, what else? It says Operation Pool? Okay. He said, I'm going through the folders. Q Ball, Q Stick, Rack Up, Eight Ball. Very specific. It turns out that caused every law enforcement agency in the country to show up at SRI. And they wanted to know why this weird CIA pet project was spying on the most secret NSA facility in the world. Not just secret, but so top secret that even the names of the projects, which were Q

• 1:16:09Speaker 02

  Ball, Rack Up, all this, were top, top secret. This is a facility to spy on Russian satellites. Nobody knew it was there. The CIA analyst didn't know it was there. So Ingo and Pat, just their consciousness, they just assumed, well, they don't care about the log cabin. We're, this is the CIA. They obviously want us to look at this. So from then on, every intelligence agency had psychics working, all of them. None of them admitted to it, but they all had psychics working for them.

• 1:16:41Tucker Carlson?

  I know that the Iran rescue operation in 1980 had one.

• 1:16:45Speaker 02

  Correct. That was Joe McMonigal who found them. This operation, I think, was leaked by Jimmy Carter in 96, who was giving a talk at a college. And some kid asked him, like, what's the weirdest thing that ever happened when you were president? And he said, you know, in his farmer, you know, farmer voice, you know, we had this Russian bomber go down in Africa, and we needed to get there before the Soviets. We didn't know how to do that. But we knew we had this group of, like, psychics that could see stuff, and they were helping solve, because they were involved with the Patty Hearst kidnapping. They helped, they helped find that. But that, that's not why they reported, but it, but it happened. So they had a remote viewer, who was really just like a receptionist, that they trained to do this.

• 1:17:30Speaker 02

  Because this, so this is an ability that we can all do. She found where that bomber went down. And the American military was able to get there before the Russians and retrieve this bomber. This is all documented. And Carter just kind of let that slip. And that was sort of the end of the public knowing about.

• 1:17:49Tucker Carlson?

  That was a whole reveal?

• 1:17:51Speaker 02

  It kind of was. It was called Project Stargate at this time, but it was originally Project Scan Eight, and Grill Flame, and Center Lane, and some other names like that. Project Stargate is the one that everybody knows. So they test Pat Price again. And they say, you know, rather than spying ourselves, let's see what he can see on the Soviet side. And Pat draws this, he says, I see a science fiction crane. And he draws it out. It's a big gantry crane, which is like, I don't know, 100 foot tall crane that sits on railroad tracks. It's a huge thing. And he draws it, and shows it to CIA, and they can't believe it, but it matches aerial photography. So he sees it. So now they want to know, what

• 1:18:35Speaker 02

  is this thing? He says, I don't know what it is, but underground are these 60 foot metal spheres, but they don't work. Nobody knows what they are. It later comes out that they weren't 60 foot spheres, they were 58 feet. And they were containment for nuclear material. But they didn't work. So he saw that. That was Pat Price. CIA is so impressed with his work, that they say, you just come and work for us. So they pulled him out of SRI. And he's exclusively working for CIA at that point. He's doing some of his own remote viewing, kind of on the side, some, not espionage, he's looking around. And his

• 1:19:20Speaker 02

  most famous one is he remote viewed Mount Hayes. Mount Hayes in Alaska. And he sends his consciousness into the mountain. And he sees inside the mountain, tall, thin, alien beings, working alongside American military. He sees it inside the mountain. Now, people have gone up there, there's no way in, there's no way out. I can't prove any of it, but this is what he saw. So he takes that information, he gives it to Hal Putoff. Hal's no longer with Stargate at this point. I think it's run by Skip Atwater. Could be wrong, but I think it was Skip. Gives it to Skip and.

• 1:19:53Speaker 02

  Skip passes it along. Just a couple of days later, Pat is in Las Vegas. And he's in the hotel lobby, front of the elevators, headed up to his room. Someone bumps into him and he feels like a pinch, a pinch on his leg.

• 1:20:10Speaker 02

  Goes upstairs, calls his wife to say goodnight. She says, "You don't sound good." He says, "I don't feel well."

• 1:20:17Speaker 02

  He says, "Say goodnight," and he's found dead the next morning. Yeah. 58 years old. That's, they called it a heart attack, but no autopsy is done. Someone comes in with credentials. They say, "Well, we'll take it from here." Pat's body's cremated, and then they call his wife and say what happened. And Pat's now buried in an unmarked grave in North Hollywood, which you can find if you want to pay your respects, if that's where Pat is. Pat probably is probably the most talented that there was. Joe McMonigal is famous. He's still around, by the way. Still remote viewing. He's the one who found, he found a large building, like 100 yards from water in the Soviet Union.

• 1:20:59Speaker 02

  And didn't know what they were building in there. He starts sketching a submarine. Like, "All right, they're building a sub." And he says, "No, this is different." It's got like, it's like two subs together. It's like a twin sub. They're like, "What are you talking about?" It's a twin hull sub. He said, "It's giant." He said, "I've never seen anything this big." And they're going to launch it in 120 days. That's kind of specific. And 118 days later, the Russian Typhoon-class sub is launched, and it's the largest submarine ever made, and it's a twin hull sub. And Joe saw that. Now, he claims his success rate is like 90, 95%. CIA says it's lower than that, but he saw that.

• 1:21:41Speaker 02

  And Joe McMonigal, he's, he's received the Order of Merit, which I think is the second highest award you can get as a, I think it's the second highest as a civilian from the military.

• 1:21:57Speaker 02

  And in his, in his citations, "For 200 successful missions, 150 of which provided vital intelligence to American operations." But it doesn't say anything more than that. But that's in his official citation. Now, all this kind of comes out, and I think Gates was...

• 1:22:16Speaker 02

  I think Gates was DCI at this point. He goes on TV and says, there's nothing to this Stargate thing. No real intelligence has come from it and we're shutting it down. And that was kind of the last that happened with Stargate.

• 1:22:31Tucker Carlson?

  Publicly.

• 1:22:32Speaker 02

  Publicly. I think it continues because the Soviets were trying to do the same thing at the time. And, uh, and they allegedly got it to work. Now, interestingly enough, Soviet and American remote viewers, they get together and they teach each other and actually practice. What I find fascinating is they could see not just through space, but through time. So there was one time where Joe McMonigal was given, he was given coordinates and he remote viewed it and he said, I think I'm on Mars. I said, okay, what do you see? He says, I see these tall, slender beings walking around. Something's going on. There's a problem. There's, there's species is dying. And he said, I feel, I feel like it's a long time ago.

• 1:23:17Speaker 02

  And he comes out of his trance, whatever. So the coordinates were Mars and it said Mars, 1 million B.C. So he saw beings on Mars. At the time, the, the Mars was supposed to be this barren planet, but Mars had, was full of, was very earth-like.

• 1:23:36Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:23:37Speaker 02

  Oceans, but at the time, no one said that. But Joe saw it, just like Ingo on the moon, saw alien bases on the moon, saw psychic beings on the moon. He said, they're aware of us. And, um, I think, I think those are the things that, that make the government nervous.

• 1:23:55Tucker Carlson?

  Did the crew of, uh, any of the Apollo missions, when they landed on the moon, did they see anything?

• 1:24:01Speaker 02

  Officially, no. Officially, no. The story goes that there's a, there's a radio blackout when Neil and Buzz are up there, when they first get there, and there is a radio blackout. And the story is, well, you know, how the orbit works, sometimes the radio signal drops, whatever. The story is they switch over to the medical channel and said, they're here, they're on the crater and they can see us. That's, that's what the story is. And Ingo Swan said he saw things on the moon. He saw structures, he saw beings that are there.

• 1:24:38Speaker 02

  If you go through secondary sources, every astronaut has seen strange things in space. Edgar Mitchell is on record as saying UFOs are real, they're extraterrestrial, Roswell is real, that happened, we have craft, the government is lying, this is the sixth man to walk on the moon, this is not a kook, this is an American hero. So, something's clearly going on up there. But anyway, that's, that's the nutshell.

• 1:25:03Tucker Carlson?

  What do we know about the moon exactly?

• 1:25:04Speaker 02

  Not, not very much. Not very much at all. We, um, let me ask you, do you think we went to the moon, do you think we landed on the moon?

• 1:25:15Tucker Carlson?

  I have a lot of thoughts on it, uh, that I never get into. I mean, I-

• 1:25:19Speaker 02

  You squirm the way I do and asked.

• 1:25:21Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, I, I went down this once, um, cause it's my job, right? And I, I found it really distressing. So I just kinda give up. But I did, you know, I talk, you know, you never know who's telling you the truth about anything, right? But, uh, I talk to people, you know, I sort of do trust. Like, no. But then I thought, yeah, whatever. I don't, I don't. There are a lot, I spent my life looking in, into things and trying to figure out what's real and what's not. And, and I do think in midlife, you realize having done this for so many years that like some things you're just, you're not gonna know.

• 1:25:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:25:57Tucker Carlson?

  And, and I think you can go crazy, cause I've pushed to the edge of it myself, trying to figure out what's right, what's true, what actually happened, what reality is. But I think it's unattainable on certain stories, this may be one of them. I will say, we accidentally taped over the original footage, cause we ran out of Betamax.

• 1:26:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:17Tucker Carlson?

  And the, you know, the schematic drawings of the, of the spacecraft are like missing and all, so it's like-

• 1:26:23Speaker 02

  Telemetry data is gone.

• 1:26:24Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, telemetry data is gone. It's like, stop.

• 1:26:26Speaker 02

  They can't replicate the technology.

• 1:26:28Tucker Carlson?

  Right, yeah. So that would, um-

• 1:26:32Tucker Carlson?

  I'll say this, if it, if it was faked, of course, can't prove that. Then it's just one more instance of the US government having to backfill, you know, a 57 year old lie. And it's done that a lot. It certainly did it with the murder of John F. Kennedy. And it's just, you know, you tell a lie and it just kind of doesn't go away. Because you have to continually make up new lies in order to cover, you know, the ur lie, the original lie. So you'd hate to think that's, that's real.

• 1:27:03Speaker 02

  That's the struggle with the moon landing question, I think, because it wasn't a gotcha question. Because when I'm asked that all the time, and I do the same thing, I kind of go, ah, A, I wish you didn't ask me that. B, I'm not sure. I think we did. I think something was found up there. Which is why we didn't go back. And for me, it all hinges on Edgar Mitchell, because I trust, I trust and believe him. And if he says he walked on the moon, then I believe him. But I think something was found up there that, that maybe the government didn't want us to find.

• 1:27:34Tucker Carlson?

  There's clearly lying around it. I mean, that's what we know. That's, I just know that from having a lot of children. If there's like evasion and certain parts of the story don't make sense, then there's lying there. Now, what does that add up to? Sometimes it's just very minor, you know, and sometimes it's not. But lying is the tell. It's a sign of, you know, what it is, which is deception, trying to hide the truth from other people. Clearly, clearly, they are lying.

• 1:28:03Speaker 02

  And that's what makes this so difficult is because we know they lie about all these things. We run around in circles, and the muddy, the waters are muddied. And I think that's kind of the whole point of it.

• 1:28:12Tucker Carlson?

  It may be, because simply because I know you're lying does not mean I know what the truth is. And that is true for so many different things, some of which I have like very close proximity to where like, I know for a fact you're lying. Like, you basically told me you're lying, but I can only guess as to why.

• 1:28:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:28:30Tucker Carlson?

  Right?

• 1:28:31Speaker 02

  That's 100% true.

• 1:28:32Tucker Carlson?

  Last question. Do you ever feel driven to like craziness by your job? I mean, talk about in the middle of it.

• 1:28:37Speaker 02

  Yes. Um, maybe not.

• 1:28:41Speaker 02

  Insanity, but I have become maybe certainly more jaded, disappointed in my government.

• 1:28:47Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:47Speaker 02

  Cause I didn't grow up that way.

• 1:28:48Tucker Carlson?

  I did not.

• 1:28:49Speaker 02

  A very patriotic home.

• 1:28:50Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 1:28:51Speaker 02

  So everybody's a cop or in the military or both draped in draped in old glory. And then, and I was like that really my whole life. Iraq wars, I'm behind you, you know?

• 1:29:04Tucker Carlson?

  Me too.

• 1:29:04Speaker 02

  America, everything, all of it. And in my research, I've learned that I think just about every war we've fought since the Second World War is based on a lie. I can't find any that are based on truth. And there's an argument that even World War II was kind of, America was deceived into getting involved in that. But every other war was based on a lie, which, and that's, that's, that's certainly proven. The Gulf War was started by a PR company. You remember when Nurea gave her, her testimony in front of Congress that they were throwing the babies on the ground in the hospital? Oh, it was very heartbreaking when she was the daughter of the ambassador of Kuwait. Um, and lying, she had never been to that hospital, but.

• 1:29:45Tucker Carlson?

  I remember that.

• 1:29:45Speaker 02

  We had boots on the ground.

• 1:29:47Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. Killed a lot of people.

• 1:29:49Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:29:49Tucker Carlson?

  You know, not many Americans died, thank heaven, but, um, yeah, I, I drove on the highway of death. Boy, I'm not, I'm not defending the Iraqis. I guess we're, you know, it doesn't matter how many we kill. That's our official view, but.

• 1:30:00Speaker 02

  It was only 30,000.

• 1:30:02Tucker Carlson?

  It was pretty brutal. I mean, I saw the aftermath of it is pretty, pretty brutal.

• 1:30:06Speaker 02

  But 500 Americans, that's enough for me to get.

• 1:30:08Tucker Carlson?

  There were 500 killed in the first Gulf War?

• 1:30:09Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:30:10Tucker Carlson?

  I'm so embarrassed I didn't remember that.

• 1:30:12Speaker 02

  So jaded, disappointed, angry, um, but not bitter, not bitter. Uh, you know, I, I end my episodes, I really never with despair, never really with hope. It's more about, um,

• 1:30:29Speaker 02

  try to, when, when you're told things, just think closely. I try to help people to, not what to think, but, but how to think. Don't trust everything that you, that you, that comes out of the media. Whether they're on the right or the left, that really, that's all kind of a puppet show. It's really about people versus power and anything that powerful tell you, don't trust it.

• 1:30:49Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly. Exactly. Boy, I couldn't have put that better. AJ, thank you very much.

• 1:30:55Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:30:56Tucker Carlson?

  Wreck my sleep.