Ocho Talks Antonio Brown

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast FOLLOW HAPPY DAD: https://www.instagram.com/happydad FIND HAPPY DAD: https://www.happydad.com/find In a special edition of The Pivot Podcast, Chad Johnson joins Ryan, Fred and Channing to talk everything AB and provide a player, friend and teammate perspective to the situation. Chad makes it clear that he loves AB while the guys don’t disagree with his playing ability but wonder if this time Antonio Brown has taken it too far and played his last down in the NFL. Chad, a new father, of baby girl Serenity, enjoys his first moments out of the house chopping it up with the fellas and gives a lot of laughs! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior like beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  What's up? I'm Ocho. I don't have COVID. I'm not vaccinated, but I'm circumcised, so it all balances out.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  What was happening, man? We back in it, you know what I'm saying? We got Freaky Freddy. We got Yum, Yum, Yum.

• 1:09Ryan Clark?

  Don't give it to him!

• 1:09Speaker 01

  Shannon, and look who showed up. Special guest, Ocho. I'm glad y'all put me at the house. I appreciate it. Daddy! Big daddy!

• 1:18Fred Taylor?

  You need a break?

• 1:19Speaker 01

  Nah, ain't no break. You know, it's the early stages. You know, early stages, eat, sleep, sh**.

• 1:24Ryan Clark?

  On rotation?

• 1:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I'm good. I'm good. It's only, it's day, it's day two.

• 1:29Fred Taylor?

  Grass, big dog.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  Day two being home.

• 1:31Ryan Clark?

  How was, how was everything, man? It's a crazy time, bro. It's, it's COVID, it's...

• 1:36Speaker 01

  They wouldn't let me in the hospital. They let me in the hospital strictly for the delivery. Strictly for the delivery, so they didn't allow me in until she was dilated nine and a half centimeters, which was cool. Went in, had my robe, I had my gloves on, had my bonnet on.

• 1:51Channing Crowder?

  Why'd you have a bonnet on?

• 1:52Speaker 01

  The hair, you don't want no hair, you want no hair.

• 1:54Channing Crowder?

  You have no hair. What's gonna fall in the bonnet?

• 1:57Speaker 01

  I'm just following hospital protocols. Everybody else got on the bonnet, I put on the bonnet.

• 2:01Ryan Clark?

  It's like the bald head cafeteria lady. She had to wear a bonnet too.

• 2:04Speaker 01

  But she got a bonnet on.

• 2:05Ryan Clark?

  She had to wear a bonnet too.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  I had my gloves, but this the kicker. On my phone, I don't wanna be rude and show y'all the delivery, but I got the whole delivery right. But I had the music, they had the salsa music playing in the background. The lady delivering the baby was Spanish. I think her last name might have been Garcia. We jammed out the whole delivery. I told Rell, listen to the beat of the music, breathe, and push. It's going.

• 2:30Ryan Clark?

  Okay, Coach.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  And then, yeah, yeah, yeah. From the time you were allowed in, how long did it take before baby Serenity was here? She had an epidural, which I want to talk about epidurals and push gifts and all that. And do you really get a push gift if you have epidural? You didn't really get the full...

• 2:46Ryan Clark?

  The full pain of the... So you only get... You get the present for the pain?

• 2:49Speaker 01

  Bingo. Bingo.

• 2:51Ryan Clark?

  I understand that.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  That's another, that's another topic. But, everything happened, maybe we heard about five songs.

• 2:59Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  By the time we got to the fifth salsa song, Say Your Cruise was playing Matter of Fact.

• 3:03Ryan Clark?

  Okay. Because see, what I thought was, I thought the, I thought the labor was as quick as the conception, as making the baby. So it wasn't. Because you said it was quick. So, I was figuring you was in and out the same way.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Matter of fact... Is it quick? I was asleep. You were asleep when the baby was made? When conception had, yeah, happened.

• 3:20Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Because this, this wasn't me. I was working. I happened to be in Jacksonville working an MMA fight or beat report. I'll never forget.

• 3:27Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  She's in Tampa. I'm in Jacksonville at the time. Someone took it upon themselves after work to drive three hours. I'm asleep nine o'clock every night.

• 3:38Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  Routinely, up at 5:00 a.m., regardless, no matter what day it is. Who you think downstairs calling, "Oh, I'm in town." What you mean you in town? No invite, you just pop up? And then, all of a sudden, I find myself being, taken advantage of.

• 3:53Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  At a time when I'm not even up. I'm not even, I don't even have my senses.

• 3:58Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  And so she pop up? Yeah, you pop up. And you was just laying there? Huh? You was just laying there? And your body, and your body responded? It, it did. The lower extremities were working, but the upper wasn't. I was still asleep.

• 4:12Ryan Clark?

  This is, you're a veteran at this, though.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:13Ryan Clark?

  You've been making babies a long time.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  Right, since, since, uh, 87.

• 4:18Ryan Clark?

  Since 87?

• 4:18Speaker 01

  87. You don't have no math.

• 4:21Ryan Clark?

  There's, there's no way.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  We don't, we don't, we don't...

• 4:23Ryan Clark?

  We was eight.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  People do the math.

• 4:25Channing Crowder?

  Fellas, I wanna, I wanna pass a cigar out.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 4:29Channing Crowder?

  To everybody. We, we, we gotta smoke.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:32Channing Crowder?

  We gotta smoke for young Serenity Hurricane Paula Johnson, right?

• 4:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:38Ryan Clark?

  That's hard.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  That is hard. Somebody, somebody spent some money too. Y'all ain't cheap.

• 4:43Ryan Clark?

  So, so Chad, so now, now, is, is it different now though? Right? Cause I mean, I mean, what, what number you on now?

• 4:48Speaker 01

  Eight.

• 4:49Ryan Clark?

  So you're on eight now. And obviously you have him at different points in your life. This is the most mature Ocho Seco has ever been as a father, right? You and Real, you guys are together. You guys are about to be married.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:01Ryan Clark?

  Is, is this a different process than it was with a lot of the other babies? Or is it pretty similar?

• 5:07Speaker 01

  Well, it's, it's kind of a different process. Obviously, me being a lot more mature. Me sitting my black ass down for a change. And then there was orchestrated the way I went about conceiving kids before. It wasn't about having a, a woman that's fine and you look a certain way. You gotta be a certain color, a certain complexion, hair and all this stuff. That just didn't matter. I needed athletes. I wanted athletes. So therefore those that I chose to deal with.

• 5:34Ryan Clark?

  So you were more a breeder?

• 5:35Speaker 01

  That's all, that's all, that's all I cared about. That's all I cared about.

• 5:37Ryan Clark?

  You were a stud.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  Bingo.

• 5:39Ryan Clark?

  Stud.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  So you, you look at the kids, you look at the pedigree that I had created, you know? It was all orchestrated and I told those that I dealt with during that time of, listen, did you play run track in high school? Did you cheer? Did you do volleyball? Let me, let me check your ankles. I, I always wanted to check women's ankles because their ankles.

• 5:57Ryan Clark?

  Ray Charles checked wrists. You were ankle guy.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  I'm an ankle guy because you have to understand if I want athletes, the number one foundation for an elite athlete in any sport is your footwork. And if she had bad ankles, there's no way I could procreate with you.

• 6:10Channing Crowder?

  Ocho, did anybody, did anybody never make the cut? Well, you said no, those ankles ain't right.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  No, because everyone I, I chose to deal with are people that I knew before, before NFL. Before that, and I knew their background, obviously cheerleaders, dancers, track runners.

• 6:28Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  And that is exactly.

• 6:30Ryan Clark?

  So for you, purely about footwork?

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Yep, footwork.

• 6:33Ryan Clark?

  So this, this is, this is more love?

• 6:36Speaker 01

  No, this is, no, she could run.

• 6:38Fred Taylor?

  All I needed to know was her jumping out of airplanes, helicopters. That's all that matters.

• 6:44Ryan Clark?

  Well, that means she's just braver than all of us.

• 6:46Fred Taylor?

  She has to be more competitive than anybody, any woman on the planet.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  I gotta think our first date, she had no idea she was going through my own personal combine. We went to Dave and Buster's.

• 6:56Ryan Clark?

  Did you all who?

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, she had no idea, why are we doing this? Why are you playing these games? Why are you taking me to the gym with you? Why are we playing one on one in basketball? This ain't no love in basketball. I'm trying to understand and make sure that if it happens to come to that point, that I am procreating with someone.

• 7:12Ryan Clark?

  Okay, so she's a go getter. Does that mean now when she wakes up with the baby, you sleep at nine, you said?

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, always, always.

• 7:19Ryan Clark?

  Is she doing that by herself? Because like when I got to this point, and I finally got to have a baby where, you know what I'm saying, I was stable and I was mature and I was, I would wake up every night. If we were warming bottles, I would warm the bottle. I would try to stay up, I would try to like rub her back. I'd usually fall asleep before everybody else fall asleep. But that was one of those effort things, right? It was about effort. Is that where you are now? You know what I'm saying?

• 7:41Speaker 01

  No, no. For I do everything, for one. For one, now at this point in my life, I don't know if all of you know that I have manifested being a stay at home dad. And Sherri has put me in a position where I can do just that. With her being the go getter that she is, I've worked, I got about thirty seven, eleven jobs, you know? But I am still considered a stay at home dad where she is the one bringing the bacon.

• 8:03Channing Crowder?

  Bro, you ain't got no, you have no breasts. You don't produce milk.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:07Ryan Clark?

  So did you get up?

• 8:08Channing Crowder?

  I got up, I got up and I got up because Asia would pump. Y'all, I know all y'all know about the pump, the little thing they put on with the big breasts.

• 8:17Ryan Clark?

  So when you asked me, when you asked me earlier on text message, what I wanted to drink, mimosas or breast milk?

• 8:23Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, that's what dudes like you drink.

• 8:27Fred Taylor?

  But did she put in work? Did she pump or did she have an automatic?

• 8:30Channing Crowder?

  She had the hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm, that little, that little box.

• 8:34Ryan Clark?

  So you would get up then?

• 8:35Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 8:36Channing Crowder?

  I would get up and do it. That's why I was going, I was going to ask y'all because we all got kids. We got a fleet, between us, between us, bro, it's about twenty kids right here.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  You got it, y'all got it, well, you done, I know you done. You done.

• 8:47Channing Crowder?

  I'm done.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  For me, what I've done when all my kids were born, I established dominance. And getting the child on your routine. You have to get your kid, for people at home, you watch this, and you just had a child, you have to get the child on your routine. When you up, they're up. When you sleep, they sleep. And at some point, they will become accustomed to when to sleep. And when to be up.

• 9:08Channing Crowder?

  But Ocho, it ain't that easy, bro.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  It's that easy.

• 9:10Channing Crowder?

  It's that easy.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  I'm on number eight. There's a reason I'm good at this shit. I got this down to a T, down to a science.

• 9:16Ryan Clark?

  You got making them down to a T for sure.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Bottle, yeah, bottles, everything is already pre-made.

• 9:21Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Everything's already preheated, wipes, the whole nine yards. So it's like everything is working like an engine over there. Where real didn't even have to do much anyway.

• 9:28Fred Taylor?

  Two questions, two questions. Is a vasectomy in the near future?

• 9:32Speaker 01

  No, why would I do that?

• 9:33Fred Taylor?

  What's your swaddle game like? Can you burrito wrap the baby? Can you?

• 9:37Speaker 01

  I do everything, the nine whole nine yards.

• 9:40Fred Taylor?

  So it's really Ocho versus everything?

• 9:42Speaker 01

  Basically.

• 9:43Channing Crowder?

  Ocho, you can swaddle?

• 9:44Speaker 01

  Basically.

• 9:45Channing Crowder?

  You can swaddle?

• 9:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, who can't swaddle?

• 9:47Channing Crowder?

  You tuck that lid, you tuck that arm, and then you wrap that other one over?

• 9:50Speaker 01

  You start from the, you go right to left.

• 9:52Ryan Clark?

  That's harder than wrapping a present.

• 9:53Channing Crowder?

  And then you gotta bring that one through the middle?

• 9:55Speaker 01

  Bingo, yeah.

• 9:56Channing Crowder?

  And you got all of it down?

• 9:58Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I like it.

• 9:58Fred Taylor?

  Okay, chest, back, or side? Right now. Baby Serenity, how's she sleeping?

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Who are you, Mrs. Delfi? On the right. I wanna know.

• 10:06Channing Crowder?

  We got to talk about.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  Left to right.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  Left to right.

• 10:13Fred Taylor?

  Damn, Freddie? No, well, C is still exists, right?

• 10:17Channing Crowder?

  C is.

• 10:20Fred Taylor?

  But I'm just saying.

• 10:21Ryan Clark?

  Yes, it still exists.

• 10:22Fred Taylor?

  I just wanna check, check where you at now. We just squishy.

• 10:24Ryan Clark?

  The man said he got eight of them, Coach. He got us all, he is a Hall of Famer.

• 10:29Fred Taylor?

  It's been a minute, though.

• 10:30Ryan Clark?

  Baby maker.

• 10:31Fred Taylor?

  It's been a minute. He got a little slow. The repetition is slowed down. It's been a minute.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  It's like riding a bike.

• 10:37Ryan Clark?

  So I have a question, though. So now, that you are mature, someone on this show has classically and historically called you a distraction.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 10:47Fred Taylor?

  Hmm.

• 10:48Ryan Clark?

  Right?

• 10:48Speaker 01

  To what?

• 10:49Ryan Clark?

  To everything, to everything in your life.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Life in general is a distraction.

• 10:53Ryan Clark?

  So now, are you the stability in the household?

• 10:56Speaker 01

  I've always been a stability, period.

• 10:58Ryan Clark?

  Well, you wanted stability on your team, ever?

• 11:00Speaker 01

  I was a heartbeat, yeah, I was.

• 11:02Ryan Clark?

  Heartbeat and stability are two different things.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  You can't... Heartbeat and stability are two different things?

• 11:07Ryan Clark?

  Two different things.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  If you don't have a heartbeat, what you got?

• 11:09Ryan Clark?

  You're dead.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Bingo.

• 11:10Ryan Clark?

  If you're a car, you need an engine, right? The engine is the heartbeat.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  The quarterback drives the team.

• 11:14Ryan Clark?

  Right, the engine is the heartbeat, but somebody gotta control it. You were never in control of the team because people had to control you.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  No, nobody had to control me. Control me, do what?

• 11:22Ryan Clark?

  Well, the problem was they couldn't control...

• 11:24Speaker 01

  Has anyone ever been able to control me?

• 11:25Channing Crowder?

  No, they can't, and that's the problem. And, Chad, you're a distraction to organizations.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Me?

• 11:31Channing Crowder?

  Yes.

• 11:32Ryan Clark?

  You're just, you're just a sweetheart, though.

• 11:34Speaker 01

  Wait, no, no, no.

• 11:34Ryan Clark?

  You're just a good dude.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  You guys consider distractions anyone that doesn't abide by the rules that they put in place.

• 11:40Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yeah. Breaking the rules is a distraction.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  What rules did I break when I was playing?

• 11:44Channing Crowder?

  You broke the rules. You put on a Hall of...

• 11:46Speaker 01

  Name one rule I broke.

• 11:47Channing Crowder?

  You put on a Hall of Fame jacket after you scored a touchdown. Oh, yeah.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  And?

• 11:51Channing Crowder?

  That was a violation.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  And?

• 11:52Channing Crowder?

  That's a violation.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  To who? To everybody.

• 11:54Channing Crowder?

  To the world? Ocho, to, to the football world?

• 11:58Speaker 01

  What do they do now? Don't they have a celebration camera?

• 12:01Ryan Clark?

  Yes.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:02Ryan Clark?

  And nobody's putting on Hall of Fame jackets, Ocho?

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Because ain't nobody creative like I am. Let me, one question. All the stuff I was vilified for?

• 12:10Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  Celebrating, creating shoes, wearing gold shoes, wearing shoes with tiger stripes. What does everybody have now?

• 12:15Ryan Clark?

  Thing is, you, you weren't vilified for that. Like, I thought that was dope. I don't feel like you were vilified for that.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  I was vilified for everything.

• 12:20Ryan Clark?

  No, it, it made you, Chad, it made you famous, and people love you. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I, I played against you, and as much as you talked...

• 12:27Speaker 01

  I ran you the over, too, just FYI, just throwing it out there. You can pull, you can pull the tape up. Go ahead, anyway.

• 12:32Channing Crowder?

  I was gonna say, I was about to say, neither of y'all are no big dudes, so I don't know who gonna win, but... He said you were signing, signing peace treaties.

• 12:37Ryan Clark?

  I am so much tougher than you are. Chad would come out the game, "I love you, man, let's have a great day, let's be nice," and then he'd do seven damn moves on a post rock. I'm, I'm, he, he know we in man under over here, and I gotta be over the top. He then gave me 18 dang moves, and then if I hit him, he gonna be like, "Come on, RC, what you doing?" We had this conversation. Channing saying that you're a distraction. Me agreeing in the fact that you did some things outside of the, the rules sometimes that made people pay attention to, to Ocho outside of football. But I don't ever think you were, like, it was negative in any way. That's not how I felt. Like, I never felt negatively about you.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  Nothing I did was malicious.

• 13:12Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I, I felt like that, too. But recently, recently, someone who I feel like you've been unfairly compared to is Antonio Brown sometimes.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  It's my guy!

• 13:20Ryan Clark?

  Exactly.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  We love A.B.

• 13:22Channing Crowder?

  We love A.B.'s ability, but what about what he just did with New York? What about what he just did running off the field, half naked, down by 14?

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:31Channing Crowder?

  With his team, what about A.B.? That's, I would love for you to speak on that.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  From a wide receiver standpoint, for sure.

• 13:38Channing Crowder?

  Try to defend, try to defend A.B. about this.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  I don't have to defend, I love A.B. I love A.B.

• 13:42Channing Crowder?

  You need to defend that.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  I can't, I, that's something that I wouldn't have done. I don't have those kind of balls, those are big balls, you know, to be able to do it. I don't know what happened or what co-inspired for him to take his stuff off and actually have to leave the game. I'm not sure what conspired between him, the trainers, what was going on with his ankle, what Bruce Arians might have said to him that would have triggered him to do such. We don't know. I don't know, would I have done something like that? No. Do I condone what he did? No, I do not, but I do love A.B.

• 14:11Ryan Clark?

  I obviously have the job of having to speak on it.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  You gotta do it.

• 14:15Ryan Clark?

  Right, so, you know, and so I have that job, and it's a difficult job to do. When all of this first started, when everybody was still in love with A.B., I came out.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Everybody still love A.B.

• 14:25Ryan Clark?

  That's not true. When everybody was still in love with him, when everybody believed, at least at that time to me, that he was something that he wasn't, that I already knew. So, he doesn't show up to the Cleveland game, but he gets there late, he doesn't go to practice, he wears the mink. I said, nah, this is who he's always been. I said, as a human, this is who I know him to be. I know him to be irresponsible, I know him to not care about other people, I know him to be a me guy. And I said that, and at the time, everybody crushed me. Obviously, black people crush you because they like, RC, you a black man, why you tearing down a black man? Right? Not knowing that our relationship was different, right? That little A.B. stayed at my house, that, that my wife planned A.B.'s second, little A.B.'s second party, and I paid for it, never asked for a dime. And so, all these things are happening, and when I'm leaving, he comes at me like, alright,

• 15:09Ryan Clark?

  the Steelers don't want him no more, he's saying he got teammates that smoke weed. I was like, yeah, I say I got teammates that smoke weed because I want the boys to be able to smoke weed. I don't, I ain't never had no problem with no weed head. That goes on and instead of me calling him and instead of me saying, you know what, AB? Like, I'm trying to understand why you would say that after we had the relationship we had. But then I realized it was my fault because as he grew, as he got more famous, I pulled away from it. As he became somebody who I felt like I don't necessarily rock with, instead of going back on that relationship and being like, AB, what's happening, man? People are talking, the perception of you is changing, you know what I'm saying? Maybe there are some things you should look at and do differently. But he was, even at the time, as good as I was, he was a more famous person than me.

• 15:53Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 15:54Ryan Clark?

  He was on his way to being a better player than me. And a lot of times, those aren't conversations people are always willing to have.

• 16:00Fred Taylor?

  You can't question the talent. You can't ever question the talent.

• 16:03Ryan Clark?

  I never had a problem with AB the football player because whatever it was that drove him, whether it was fame, whether it was never wanting to be poor again, whatever it was, whether it was women, I'd never seen a player work that hard. I'd never seen an offensive player work that hard and I never saw somebody show up on game day like that. And so then when I said that and then we got into it again and he tweeted me, he was like, whenever I see you, it's on sight. And y'all have been around me, even though Channing think I'm soft, right? You know, like, I tweeted, I tweeted him right away. You know where I live, I know you got a private jet, I see you when I see you, I can't wait. Right? I go on First Take the next day and they like, we want you to talk about this. And I told Max and I told Stephen A., I said, I'm not finna come on here and shine.

• 16:46Ryan Clark?

  I said, this isn't like y'all two getting into it with a football player that y'all know y'all ain't gonna fight, right? I said, because I know I'll fight him. I said, and I know he'll fight me too. I said, so, but I would have rather we just walk in somewhere, we catch the fade and we move on. But now, looking back on it. Being an OG, being older, I didn't handle that right. Whether I condoned what he did, or whatever it is, whether we want to cuss each other out, whether we want to throw hands, I should have called him, I should have found him. Right, but it was my ego that was like, nah, you come at me after I didn't done these things for you, like I'm done with you. Right, and so now, if you watch me on TV, when everybody else crushes him, I lay back.

• 17:26Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 17:27Ryan Clark?

  Because it's different now, I'm not gonna pile on, but I was wrong.

• 17:30Channing Crowder?

  But it's something that I thought about AB too, and my group of my dudes that I talk to, my homeboys, my, you know what I'm saying, my crew. As I said, this dude, does he have real friends? When he gave up that 30 million dollars in with the Raiders, when he burned the bottom of his feet and he went to cuss people out, bro, if he would have made it to the first snap of that season, he had 30 million dollars guaranteed. Like, you ain't got nobody around you to say, bro, tighten up, run a couple routes, get to that first damn, you know, that first damn game, and get your money.

• 18:03Ryan Clark?

  But the gravy train stopped then though, Chan.

• 18:05Channing Crowder?

  But no, it wasn't stopped, he just, he was, he lined up for 30 million, RC.

• 18:11Ryan Clark?

  But maybe if he hears the no's from somebody, or maybe those people have been around when they have seen somebody give him a no, and he's seen them do away with them, or they've seen him do away with those people, so they lay back more. It's like, okay, he understands what he wants, he understands what he wants to do, and they let him go.

• 18:27Channing Crowder?

  You need to listen to people that was there before the money, that was there before the fame, that was there before all that. You need to listen to people, bro.

• 18:34Fred Taylor?

  A lot of the times, though, coming from our environment, if you're the breadwinner, people are gonna let you make all the calls. And guys are afraid, not necessarily afraid, but because they feel you'll cut the check or cut them off, they ain't gonna say shit. That's just how it goes.

• 18:49Channing Crowder?

  And that's a flaw.

• 18:50Fred Taylor?

  That is a flaw. I think it's a flaw.

• 18:52Ryan Clark?

  How many dudes do y'all have around you that don't think like you? Like, I don't know how close him and Chad is. Oh, way, way back. That's what I'm saying. High school.

• 19:01Channing Crowder?

  Okay, so you say you love him. RC, can you call, can you reach out to him?

• 19:07Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 19:07Channing Crowder?

  Could you tell him to up that 30 million that the Raiders was about to give him? Because you're talking about his bottom of his feet is burned? Go out there and get that bread, bro.

• 19:14Ryan Clark?

  We've had those talks before. Long, long, long, long time ago, because I had situations I was in.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  And we were training together, you know, we started, we started out training way back when he first.

• 19:27Fred Taylor?

  I remember he was at Paul Marido's, he was.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  And we had those conversations before, but there's only so much information I can give.

• 19:36Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 19:37Speaker 01

  There's only so much information. I don't know who else is as close as he and I are. Uh, he's, I'm sure he's talked to T O before, but then there's only so much I could do.

• 19:46Fred Taylor?

  Mm hmm.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  You know, and you, you, you live and you learn and the, one of the best, you know, teachers in life is experience.

• 19:53Fred Taylor?

  Correct.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  And sometimes you gotta go through those ups and downs. Sometimes you get it after the first time, sometimes you don't.

• 20:01Fred Taylor?

  My problem with everything is the people who prematurely blame it on mental issues. Or he's sick, you know, he got something going on in his head. We honestly, we see the patterns. Everybody can clearly see the patterns, but we can't professionally diagnose what's going in A B's head.

• 20:20Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com slash superior access to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 20:49Fred Taylor?

  What I see, I haven't spoken to him in person in a while, but I remember the young A B humble. Worked harder than anybody in the gym. I was like, oh, this young kid, he will look up to you. Yeah. As an older player, he like, he want to show you, I'm next, especially coming from the college he came from. So he outworked everybody, but then it's, it's, what I'm hearing is he got, when he got the money from Pittsburgh, that's when he felt entitled. And that's when everything changed.

• 21:22Channing Crowder?

  But Freddie, I'll ask y'all this.

• 21:23Fred Taylor?

  And I've seen it happen.

• 21:24Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, and I'll ask y'all this.

• 21:25Ryan Clark?

  I was there.

• 21:26Channing Crowder?

  No, no talk about seeing it happen, you was there. I don't even wanna hear about AB, I wanna hear about y'all's change. When y'all, when, when y'all got three, four, five, 10, 15 million dollars.

• 21:36Ryan Clark?

  I think, I think, I think Ocho, I think Ocho though, I think Ocho is probably more fit to be able to discuss that. Because I think, I think our, our money changed, right? Like, like my situations changed. My level of fame never really changed, right? Like, people wasn't looking at me for reality shows. People weren't, people weren't following me by the millions. Like, he's, Ocho is kinda the only person that sat here that was able to go from being Chad Johnson to a, a freaking Spanish number.

• 22:08Channing Crowder?

  Well, O, O, let, RC, let's be honest now. What happened when money came around? What, how did money change you?

• 22:14Speaker 01

  It didn't. My, my game was the same even after.

• 22:16Channing Crowder?

  You changed your last lane though.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  No, that was marketing, that was marketing. Which is why I'm Ocho still to this day. I ain't played, I'm just as popular as 99% of the NFL. I ain't played a snap in 11 years.

• 22:25Fred Taylor?

  But I saw you roll.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  I still make just as much money as an NFL veteran. I ain't tucked, I ain't caught a touchdown in years.

• 22:32Channing Crowder?

  And you knew that when you, you knew that when you did.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Understanding, being able to market, because the NFL will control who and who, who and what they wanna market. Which is why I chose never to ever change, because I was trying to set myself up for that back end. For that back end, long when the game is going.

• 22:47Ryan Clark?

  Do you feel any of that hurt you career-wise football?

• 22:51Speaker 01

  Hmm, maybe a little bit, a little bit.

• 22:53Ryan Clark?

  Like, were, were off-seasons busy or were they not?

• 22:56Speaker 01

  No, off-seasons never changed.

• 22:56Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Always working. Every off-season, who you think I was with? Me and who? AB. Every off-season. That's what, that, that, that working was I was doing what AB was doing, but the social media was around then. But we were doing it when there was no social media.

• 23:11Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  When he was still at Western Michigan, and I was already in the league. That's the way we always worked.

• 23:16Fred Taylor?

  Do you ever feel like you was 10 years too soon?

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Nah. Nah, I think it was perfect. I played when I was supposed to play. The game is too, no disrespect. No disrespect, the game's a little too watered down now. Can't hit nobody, can't touch nobody.

• 23:31Channing Crowder?

  That's true.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  You know, DBs can't be DBs.

• 23:33Channing Crowder?

  That's true.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  There's no reason for me to keep my head on a swivel in today's game.

• 23:36Ryan Clark?

  Do you know how many taunting penalties you would get?

• 23:38Speaker 01

  Probably none. I did nothing malicious, though.

• 23:40Ryan Clark?

  But it doesn't have to be malicious. If you, if you run out of bounds and you look at a dude and say something, you know, you, you usually be laughing.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  My, my, my saying would be what? I love you, just to piss you off. There's never, never no [BLEEP] talking. Anything to get you out of your game in a nice way, I can get you the whole conversation. Okay, I got you.

• 24:00Channing Crowder?

  But when we played, it was the not fun league, but now it is the now fun league.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  Then I don't think I would have been, my creativity would have had to take over in today's game. Now that stuff is allowed.

• 24:11Ryan Clark?

  I think life is about pioneers. You are a pioneer in, in the things that you did. The NFL is gonna capitalize on money. The NFL, while fining you and making you try to do stuff off on the side, couldn't capitalize on who Ocho Cinco was, right? You could only do it.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:26Ryan Clark?

  And people like you, is why they said, no, let them celebrate. The folks seem to like it.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:31Ryan Clark?

  Right? And now they can make money off of it, and now the gritties on games and, and different things like that. Do you think it's, it's now gotten to a point, though, to where dudes can get, like, you can get popular now and actually not be good at football?

• 24:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, you can. Because of social media, obviously, for one.

• 24:48Ryan Clark?

  And you know, and so, and so now we're getting to this point to where football players, like I said this about Odell, and I love Odell. You know what I'm saying? Like, how you, how you love AB, that's how I love Odell. You know, I would have arguments with older dudes. I thought he was the most famous football player in the world. I thought he was the most recognizable.

• 25:03Channing Crowder?

  Cause that one little catch?

• 25:05Ryan Clark?

  But he, but you can look at the stats, like the first four years, he was unbelievable. The catch, the New York, the, the look, the smile.

• 25:11Channing Crowder?

  Did you get caught up with him proposing to the, to the kicking net? Or did you get caught up in his game?

• 25:17Ryan Clark?

  His game.

• 25:18Channing Crowder?

  So his game made him?

• 25:19Ryan Clark?

  Dude is ultra talented.

• 25:20Channing Crowder?

  He's very talented.

• 25:21Ryan Clark?

  Yes.

• 25:22Channing Crowder?

  Before he got hurt, let's be honest.

• 25:24Ryan Clark?

  But what I'm saying is, though, right now, we've gotten to the point to where I feel like sometimes fame supersedes the game. If what happened with AB happens with me, one, it probably meant like I got in a fistfight. So I'm in trouble anyway, right? If I'm gonna go to that point. But the type of hiding I would do, I'd be so embarrassed that I wouldn't be at a Brooklyn Nets game. You see what I'm saying? Like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't show my face because the perception from the outside is that this just happened. And like, like Freddie said, everybody who's coming at me about it is coming at me about the mental issues. And so now, somebody who grew up in the era, well, my parents straight up told me, like, listen, Barry, like,

• 26:07Ryan Clark?

  mental issues, depressions are things that you can't afford to have. Like, literally, you don't, you're not rich enough, you're not blessed enough to be able to afford those things. You gotta find a way to provide. And so now I'm looking at this and I'm starting to wonder, when do we get to the point to where we are enabling bad decision-making? Right? And if we are going to continue to be aware about mental health, we also have to educate ourselves on the science and the people who are dealing with these things have to be willing to get help. Because after a while, you're culpable in some way.

• 26:42Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 26:43Ryan Clark?

  Right? And so now, when we sit from the outside looking in, how do you help an A B if there are so many people that are gonna give him excuses?

• 26:51Channing Crowder?

  Do y'all think it was mental health? I know CTE pops up a lot. Right. And that's, that was, and I'm with you kinda, RC, where the CTE, that, that, when did y'all hear about that?

• 27:04Ryan Clark?

  Fred, like, when, when did you start, when did you start hearing? Cause you started, you played before all of us.

• 27:08Fred Taylor?

  I don't remember, I forgot. Probably around, um, I don't know, I think they really got heavy about six years ago? Something like that.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  You know what, when it, when it probably really got heavy, what era sued the NFL in one?

• 27:22Ryan Clark?

  That was us.

• 27:23Fred Taylor?

  It had to be around.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  Our era?

• 27:24Ryan Clark?

  The, the era was before us, but it was while we were playing.

• 27:27Fred Taylor?

  It had to be around 2015, right?

• 27:28Ryan Clark?

  During all the, during all the concussion talks.

• 27:30Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 27:30Ryan Clark?

  That's when it became, it became really big around the time of the new C B.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  They won the settlement, right?

• 27:34Ryan Clark?

  Yup.

• 27:35Speaker 01

  And then, all of a sudden, what happens after they win the settlement? The rules change.

• 27:39Fred Taylor?

  The rules change.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  And the NFL does what to protect what? Themselves, right?

• 27:43Ryan Clark?

  Yup.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  So it can't happen again.

• 27:44Channing Crowder?

  C Y A. To protect their money.

• 27:46Fred Taylor?

  But you don't ever.

• 27:47Channing Crowder?

  To protect their money.

• 27:48Fred Taylor?

  But protecting the money, but also increasing the margins. You don't find it strange that? When all of that came to fruition, the, the, a few rule changes had occurred over the years. You can't jam the man at the line.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 28:04Fred Taylor?

  The Tom Brady rule. You can't hit the quarterback low. Then you can't hit the receivers high because of the concussions.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 28:11Fred Taylor?

  You can't hit the quarterbacks high, right? All of the rules changed and then the concussion battle came. Then from there, you saw the NFL scores go from 25 to 17 or whatever. Those were considered blowouts. Then the teams, now we're scoring 40, 50 points a game because of the rule change. With the rule changes, the stadium changes. The TV deals got richer.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  So you think more about this?

• 28:35Channing Crowder?

  The NFL nets $9 billion a year.

• 28:39Fred Taylor?

  It's a business. We, we gotta be fair.

• 28:41Channing Crowder?

  Each, each, each team gets a quarter billion dollar check at the end of the season. $250 million plus at the end of the season. This is a business. For us as players and talking to these young players, that's what we have to let them know. This is a business. All four of us are not running, catching, tackling.

• 29:02Fred Taylor?

  Keep it coming.

• 29:03Channing Crowder?

  Anybody else.

• 29:04Fred Taylor?

  Keep it coming.

• 29:05Channing Crowder?

  And they're still making Freddie $9 billion a year.

• 29:10Fred Taylor?

  But that's the nature of the beast.

• 29:12Channing Crowder?

  It's about money, bro.

• 29:13Fred Taylor?

  That's the nature of the beast.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  I think everybody should, everybody should understand it by, at this point. At this point in life, we should understand regardless of any rules set in place. We try to any memos they put out, any of that politically correct shit. At the end of the day, the bottom line is about making money always. Especially in that business.

• 29:30Ryan Clark?

  Right. So for you, Freddie, when you was talking about the rules, the rules are more about protecting the people that make money, right? Because if Chad's healthy, if Chad's healthy, or Ocho Cinco's healthy, whatever team he plays on scores more points, period. Right? If I don't hit him in his head, across the middle, whatever it is. No, I'm just saying, whatever it is, that team's better. If Tom Brady's knee is not shot, then the Patriots who were 11 and 5 that year with Matt Cassel are 13 and 3, they probably win it. Right? So do you think, do you think they truly want to protect those people? Or that was just about, look, we gotta make sure these dudes part of the game?

• 30:03Fred Taylor?

  Any fans that go through a game, they're, they're only spending a, a minimal amount of time watching the game here on field level. Majority of the time is on the jumbotron, right? That's the, that's the business of football.

• 30:18Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 30:19Fred Taylor?

  It's all about entertainment now. If we can score more points, if we can entertain the core fans when they're in the stadium, we already got the TV deal on lock.

• 30:29Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 30:29Fred Taylor?

  But if we can entertain these people in the stadium, sell a $65 hot dog.

• 30:34Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 30:35Channing Crowder?

  How much a hot dog?

• 30:36Ryan Clark?

  Sixty-five dollars.

• 30:37Channing Crowder?

  Sixty-five dollars?

• 30:38Ryan Clark?

  That better be a foot long. Man, godly.

• 30:40Channing Crowder?

  Three feet hot dog?

• 30:41Fred Taylor?

  Yes.

• 30:41Ryan Clark?

  So.

• 30:42Fred Taylor?

  Eighty, eighty dollar beer.

• 30:43Ryan Clark?

  Okay, so.

• 30:44Fred Taylor?

  Touchdowns, more touchdowns, more fans, more excitement. Let's go. The rule changes translated to that. More money, more revenues. It's capitalism. That's where we are. It's the business of doing business. It's all good. I ain't tripping.

• 30:58Ryan Clark?

  We're talking about the gaming money. When the thing happened with Gruden, and I was saying that I thought that he should be fired, or I thought that there should be some ramifications to what he did. Everybody's like, well, football players, they, you know, you know how it is? They beat women, they drink and drive, woo, all these things. And I was talking about it today. Like, if you're good, they overlook those things. Is that also about money? But in that being about money, are you hurting the player's growth as humans?

• 31:25Channing Crowder?

  Are you asking NFL this?

• 31:26Ryan Clark?

  I'm asking you.

• 31:27Channing Crowder?

  They don't care about our growth as humans. They don't care about our money management skills. They don't care about our.

• 31:32Fred Taylor?

  I disagree.

• 31:33Channing Crowder?

  Our abil- no, bro. They do not care about our ability to be husbands and fathers.

• 31:37Fred Taylor?

  They provide the resources, you have to take advantage of those.

• 31:39Channing Crowder?

  No, no, no, no, Freddie.

• 31:40Fred Taylor?

  Look, they put everything in place.

• 31:41Channing Crowder?

  I give you, Freddie.

• 31:42Fred Taylor?

  I gotta be fair when I, in my mind.

• 31:44Channing Crowder?

  I give you, I give you, I give you fifty million dollars, that makes you a better man?

• 31:47Fred Taylor?

  It doesn't make me a better man.

• 31:49Channing Crowder?

  And what, nobody else, there's no other things. They do a [BLEEP] ass rookie symposium.

• 31:55Ryan Clark?

  Yeah. They don't do that no more. You gotta do it with the team.

• 31:58Channing Crowder?

  They don't even do the rookie symposium.

• 31:58Fred Taylor?

  Money does not make you happy, period.

• 32:00Channing Crowder?

  Money does not change you. Money makes you more of what you are before. So if you were hitting women. If you were hitting women, if you were drinking, if you were smoking, if you were snorting coke, if you was hitting the crack pipe, you're gonna get the best crack now.

• 32:11Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 32:11Fred Taylor?

  Name another space.

• 32:12Channing Crowder?

  They don't care about you as a human.

• 32:14Fred Taylor?

  That's our business. Because that's where we come from, right?

• 32:17Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 32:17Fred Taylor?

  So because I put a check for fifty million in your pocket, that doesn't mean you're gonna change.

• 32:22Channing Crowder?

  No.

• 32:23Fred Taylor?

  I.e. A.B.

• 32:25Ryan Clark?

  Yeah. You heard Tom Brady, he was totally empathetic.

• 32:27Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 32:28Ryan Clark?

  Right? And I, and I, and I'll be honest with y'all, I'll be straight up. I reached out to him, first thing I said was, "I'm sorry. For anything that we had in the past that is an issue, I'm sorry."

• 32:38Fred Taylor?

  Stand up.

• 32:38Ryan Clark?

  I said, I said, I said, "I would love to help you clear this up." Right, like, but I'm not his friend, and I know that. I was, or we were, we had something, but not anymore. You know, like, Ocho, you started saying you love him. Like, did you reach out to him?

• 32:56Speaker 01

  Too much going on.

• 32:58Ryan Clark?

  Too much for you going on?

• 32:59Speaker 01

  Too much going on in general. It's too much, too much, too much, you know, I got everybody, everybody and their mama reaching out. This person wanna do this, everybody wanna do it, he pulling, too many people pulling.

• 33:09Fred Taylor?

  I side, I side with Ocho on that.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  Too many people pulling, it's, oh, it just happened? Oh, he come in, no, I, I'm not that guy. I think I've reached out enough to where if you need somebody to talk to, there's one mother, you know you can call.

• 33:24Fred Taylor?

  And he knows that.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  There's one person you know you can call. We been doing this damn near 20 years, so I don't, when something happens, I don't have to reach out every damn time.

• 33:32Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  You know I'm there.

• 33:33Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  You know I'm there. If he wanted, he wanted my advice on anything, he would reach out. But I don't wanna be, jump on the bandwagon with everybody else reaching out and, no.

• 33:42Channing Crowder?

  You, you feel as if, AB, if he really wanted help, he'll reach out. He knows the OG that ain't trying to get nothing out of him.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I think so.

• 33:50Channing Crowder?

  You think, you think, you think most players have that guy in their life?

• 33:52Speaker 01

  We keep saying there's something wrong with him. I think there are situations that happen, and there's a reason that they happen, and that's the way he reacted to those situations.

• 34:01Fred Taylor?

  I don't think anything's wrong with him.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't think nothing wrong with him.

• 34:04Fred Taylor?

  And I see, I see.

• 34:05Channing Crowder?

  Bro, he got naked on the sideline, bro. Listen, Freddie.

• 34:09Fred Taylor?

  That was an antique.

• 34:10Channing Crowder?

  Whatever y'all are talking about, this motherfucker got naked on the sideline and ran across the field amping the other team's crowd up. Now, let's be honest about this situation.

• 34:20Ryan Clark?

  You can't make bad decisions and not be sick.

• 34:22Fred Taylor?

  Correct, because we can't diagnose CTE while we're here.

• 34:26Ryan Clark?

  I'm gonna say this, or what other people perceive as bad decisions, because you make a decision for you.

• 34:30Channing Crowder?

  No, RC, a bad decision is to leave your sideline, get half naked, and run across the end zone during a football game.

• 34:37Ryan Clark?

  For me, it is.

• 34:38Channing Crowder?

  That's a bad decision at any sport, at any level, at any human in the world.

• 34:43Ryan Clark?

  So here's the, I think the, the bigger problem is misinformation, right? So, so you.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  You still don't know what happened.

• 34:48Ryan Clark?

  Right, you still, you still don't know what happened.

• 34:49Fred Taylor?

  Correct.

• 34:49Ryan Clark?

  You know, obviously, I know people in the locker room, it wasn't about incentives. They went to him early on in the week and asked, "What do you need to get?" You go to the week before, you get 15 targets, right? 10 catches, because Tom is his guy and Tom's trying to get him to that point. So it wasn't about that. There was other things that went on throughout the week that I feel, or that I've heard, carried over into the game. If you already got something on your heart, you don't have to be mental for that to click out in the heat of those three hours. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so I think we've gotten to a place in society, though, that you have to paraphrase or you have to caveat every damn thing. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm talking, I'm on TV, it's Monday morning, I'm on TV,

• 35:33Ryan Clark?

  and in the middle of talking, I go, "I can't condemn him, I can't judge him, I can't criticize him," which is true, right? And I say, "Because I don't know what trauma has brought this on." When in my heart of hearts, I don't necessarily believe that. You see what I'm saying? But that's where we are. And when you're doing that job, that's where you gotta be. And so we have now become as a society that that junk's okay, but it's actually not okay from the standpoint of what it means for his career and his job, and also for what it looks like for everybody else. Because as much as we gotta protect him, right? As much as people don't want us to talk stuff about him, he gotta protect himself.

• 36:12Fred Taylor?

  But we all should be concerned. But my main concern is the enablers. You know, the people who give him the passes. The people say, "Yeah, you should have done that."

• 36:23Ryan Clark?

  Football ain't gonna change that.

• 36:24Fred Taylor?

  Football won't change that. But what you hear from A.B. is, what he says is, "Football is what I do, not who I am." And people gotta respect, you know, his upbringing, what, his environment. He's a product of that.

• 36:40Ryan Clark?

  100%.

• 36:41Fred Taylor?

  You know, so it's been in him somewhere.

• 36:43Ryan Clark?

  I agree with that.

• 36:43Fred Taylor?

  Long before he started getting the check. Now, maybe the check enabled some of his actions and made him a bit entitled, but at the very end of the day, I believe, this is just me, I believe that A.B. knows exactly what A.B. is doing.

• 37:00Ryan Clark?

  Very smart.

• 37:00Fred Taylor?

  What he wants to do, where he wants to go. And he understands that football isn't gonna dictate my actions or who I am. And I think more people should be that way. I'm not saying go quit, cuz that's what he did at the end of the day. I don't rock with that.

• 37:16Ryan Clark?

  This dude loves football, and I believe that even with the other stuff.

• 37:20Fred Taylor?

  Let me back up, cuz I don't wanna say.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  What he just said really, it really described me a little bit too. I wouldn't allow football, how'd you say it?

• 37:29Fred Taylor?

  To dictate you, who you are?

• 37:30Speaker 01

  I wouldn't allow them to actually, NFL, when you think about it in itself, it's about control.

• 37:35Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 37:36Speaker 01

  It's about control.

• 37:36Fred Taylor?

  Nah, I don't think it's so much.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Listen, it's about control.

• 37:39Fred Taylor?

  It's a business.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  I have a question.

• 37:40Fred Taylor?

  We're workers. Every business has bylaws and rules.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  I have a question. I have a question. When we mess up, you wear your socks too high, or when I wear an orange chin strap, or a black chin strap, or I celebrate and they don't like it, what's the first thing they take from me, RC?

• 37:55Fred Taylor?

  Money.

• 37:56Speaker 01

  You know why they take our money first? Cuz they think that's what me, me, or all of us, that's what they think we value most.

• 38:02Fred Taylor?

  But take this back.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Wait a minute.

• 38:03Fred Taylor?

  Okay.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  So you take somebody that actually loves this [BLEEP], and I wanna play it just like I'm at Liberty City Optimus, I just happen to be on mother [BLEEP] TV, I just happen to be making millions of dollars, and I choose not to abide by your rules based on the way I think the game of football should be played, you can't control that.

• 38:20Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  You can't, and when you can't control somebody that believes in themselves like that, and it don't, it had nothing to do with money, how do you defeat that?

• 38:30Fred Taylor?

  So.

• 38:31Speaker 01

  How do you, how do you control that?

• 38:32Fred Taylor?

  You as a parent, right? Baby serenity. You want the best for your daughter. You send her to a private school or a charter school.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  She ain't going to private school if you want the best for your daughter, but go ahead.

• 38:43Fred Taylor?

  No, I'm with you on that. But most parents think that. I just, I just tossed it out like that. I'm going to private school.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  Not shelter, my mother.

• 38:50Fred Taylor?

  Shelter? The best teachers? No, that's, that's overrated, Chan. Bro, we in a private school.

• 38:58Ryan Clark?

  It's not overrated.

• 38:59Fred Taylor?

  I'm in a private school.

• 39:00Ryan Clark?

  It's not overrated.

• 39:00Fred Taylor?

  And everybody in the private school. I disagree. All the teachers got PhDs.

• 39:05Ryan Clark?

  I disagree with that.

• 39:05Fred Taylor?

  I believe it's on the kid.

• 39:08Channing Crowder?

  It's not on the kid. You want me to, you want me, y'all want me to teach our child? No. Y'all want me to teach our child? Send him this way. Send him this way, tighten up.

• 39:19Ryan Clark?

  Are you gonna be at HBCU?

• 39:20Channing Crowder?

  No, we ain't gonna be at HBCU.

• 39:22Ryan Clark?

  We ain't gotta worry about you then.

• 39:23Fred Taylor?

  Back your ass up. It's on the child.

• 39:25Channing Crowder?

  Bro, it's not on the child.

• 39:27Fred Taylor?

  With my son going into high school, there was a high school over here, had 8,000 enrollment. High school over here, private, $20,000 a year. 3,000 enrollment. We wanna put him over there. Smaller classes, better attention from the instructor, all of that bullshit. My [bleep] get over there and nut up, he out of there after the first [bleep] semester. It's on the [bleep] child.

• 39:50Channing Crowder?

  Y'all might as well have spanked his little ass more.

• 39:52Fred Taylor?

  He got spanked. But, that's overrated, bro. How many successful people we've seen come from the [bleep] hood, they're going to be astronomers, [bleep] scientists, all this other [bleep]. Private schools is over [bleep] rated.

• 40:08Ryan Clark?

  Fred, the thing you're doing is you're arguing two different points.

• 40:10Channing Crowder?

  No, I'm not.

• 40:11Ryan Clark?

  Because you are correct that it is on the individual to be able to learn, right? To be able to be attentive, to be able to put the effort in. That's like anything, if you put somebody at a training facility, and they can be training with dang more wells, if they don't never go run the 40, they still gonna run 5'8", right? It's on the individual. But it also is, there are some establishments that have the money, right? That have the resources, that have the people to provide better. That's it.

• 40:34Fred Taylor?

  If you weighed it out, private school versus charter and public schools, right? I think it's more of a peace of mind for the parent, for the adult, more so than the [bleep] child.

• 40:44Ryan Clark?

  I'll be honest, I'm a private school kid, and it helped me. That's all I'm gonna say, right? Period. And, that's, that's that.

• 40:51Fred Taylor?

  I just think you can thrive in any environment with support.

• 40:55Ryan Clark?

  I 100% agree with that. Nobody's arguing it.

• 40:57Channing Crowder?

  A rose, a rose can grow out the cement, but it's not as easy as growing in a damn, a damn fertile soil.

• 41:04Fred Taylor?

  Say it gotta be easy.

• 41:06Channing Crowder?

  Oh, you try to give your kids easy? You grind and make the money to spend that 30 racks a year.

• 41:12Fred Taylor?

  You want to set them up, right?

• 41:15Channing Crowder?

  Yes.

• 41:15Fred Taylor?

  But you don't wanna coddle them. You wanna, you don't wanna make it easy for them.

• 41:20Channing Crowder?

  For their teachers to have a PhD as a [bleep].

• 41:22Fred Taylor?

  That's when they grow up cursing you to [bleep] out. No, the point, what I tried to make with Ocho was this. We talking about uniform policies, right? If you send your kid to charter school or private school, if that uniform is out of place, because you talked about our socks and everything in the league. If that uniform is out of place, they get discipline. They gonna call you first, "Don't send that little motherf-" to the school like this tomorrow." And then after that, they come to school with their belt out or the shirt not tucked in, guess what? Them motherfuckers got detention. And if they do it again, they got Saturday school.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  Is that the control thing you're talking about?

• 41:58Fred Taylor?

  Then they hit your pocket. It's discipline. It's just that in the NFL, the rules are, we fine you. It's a business. You gotta respect that. Black and white. You step in the middle, you fucked up. We told you on this side, you fuck it off, you get fined. On this side, you straight. It's that simple as that. Why it gotta be so hard?

• 42:19Speaker 01

  You know, it's, you know, it's, you know, it's hard to, uh,

• 42:20Fred Taylor?

  Why it gotta be so hard?

• 42:21Speaker 01

  It's, it's hard for me to even, to even argue the fact, because I have kids in public school and have a child in private school. Now, is the education that much different from one to the other? I don't know, because all them motherfuckers are smart as hell. So, I don't know, maybe I got the luck of the draw. But for me, personally, I prefer public school.

• 42:42Fred Taylor?

  Okay.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  Personally, for me.

• 42:43Fred Taylor?

  Is it the diversity?

• 42:44Speaker 01

  Because of those I have kids from, and obviously, mothers being teachers.

• 42:49Fred Taylor?

  Okay.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  Which makes it even easier for me on my end. So, I, I got, I got the, I got the luck of the draw.

• 42:54Fred Taylor?

  I would say if you, if you, if you want your kids to go the private school route, elementary, trying to establish a foundation, that's cool. When they get into middle school,

• 43:06Fred Taylor?

  let them go. Let them get around society and what the realness is.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  When I think about private school, and I apologize, and I know y'all saw this shit at home, because we all old enough. Remember Cruel Intentions?

• 43:18Fred Taylor?

  Love that movie.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  Sebastian, I want to name my kid Sebastian. Hey.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  When I think of private school, that's the only thing I can think about. Everybody pretending to be all sedidian, perfect, but behind closed motherfuckers doors. Devils. Yeah.

• 43:31Fred Taylor?

  This is the truth.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  I don't know why, I don't know why that just resonates with me. That's, it's just, I don't, something about it.

• 43:36Fred Taylor?

  You can't, you can't protect them from what you consider private school.

• 43:43Channing Crowder?

  Advisory, your parental push, guidance is what gets them through anything they're a part of.

• 43:50Fred Taylor?

  A hundred percent. You have to reinforce whatever they're going. But private school, really, like I said to RC, it's more of a peace of mind. It's a mind state for the adults. To start off, you wanna, you know, you wanna nourish your kids, no matter where they go. You gotta abide by the rules, man, period, point blank.

• 44:08Ryan Clark?

  The rules. This whole conversation really revolves around this. You guys all played for three public schools. Jacksonville Jaguars, public school. Dolphins, public school. Cincinnati, sure is a hell of a public school.

• 44:24Speaker 01

  Private.

• 44:24Ryan Clark?

  Pittsburgh, we were the private school.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  Y'all was a private school.

• 44:28Ryan Clark?

  Oh, yeah, because we had, we had the best owners. You know what I mean? We got the best fans. We got the most trophies. Yes, we do. We got the most trophies. But I remember, I love Pittsburgh, right? And in Pittsburgh, when I was in Pittsburgh, right, Cincinnati, because it was a public school. We didn't really worry about Miami. Jacksonville, we just worried about Freddie T. You stopped Freddie T., you won the game, right? That just was. Sometimes you couldn't, sometimes you could. You stopped and you won. When I was there, right, I had, I had Carson and Ocho, right? And then I had Andy and AJ, right? Carson and Ocho, without a doubt, best duo Cincinnati's ever had till now. How does it feel to know that you will no longer be the greatest wide receiver in Cincinnati Bengal history?

• 45:09Speaker 01

  Wait, why? What happened?

• 45:11Ryan Clark?

  They drafted Jamar Chase?

• 45:12Channing Crowder?

  Jamar Chase showing out, Ocho.

• 45:14Ryan Clark?

  Okay. Oh, just one year, one year, that's all it takes?

• 45:17Fred Taylor?

  He's a bad boy.

• 45:18Ryan Clark?

  He's only playing one year though, Ocho?

• 45:20Speaker 01

  I'm just asking.

• 45:21Channing Crowder?

  Dog, Ocho, dog.

• 45:23Ryan Clark?

  A dog. How you gonna tell me? He McDonald's. I know where they are.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  I played 11 years, right?

• 45:27Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Well, we got a long way to go, right?

• 45:30Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, we do.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 45:31Fred Taylor?

  He don't think, I don't think he's.

• 45:32Ryan Clark?

  Y'all better simmer. Come on, though. Joe Burrow, so you gotta take Joe Burrow over Carson right now. He's tougher.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Tougher?

• 45:39Ryan Clark?

  Did I?

• 45:40Fred Taylor?

  Carson was a dog.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Man, yo, why you sitting here talking about my quarterback, man?

• 45:44Channing Crowder?

  How many, how many, how many, how many playoff games did Carson win? I'll let Ocho say it, but I think you're right, RC.

• 45:51Ryan Clark?

  He got hurt. We almost had one.

• 45:53Fred Taylor?

  That's true.

• 45:53Ryan Clark?

  They were finna beat they ass that game too.

• 45:55Channing Crowder?

  No, y'all wasn't gonna beat they ass.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, with chemo. I beat chemo ass. I seen it in person too.

• 46:01Ryan Clark?

  Chris Henry, God rest his soul, how he play early in the game?

• 46:04Speaker 01

  First play.

• 46:05Ryan Clark?

  First play.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  What, 40, 50 yards?

• 46:06Fred Taylor?

  Slim did it.

• 46:07Ryan Clark?

  The league's different, like, do you feel some pride in the fact that those two?

• 46:12Speaker 01

  I love it. And the fact that he came, you know what I really like about when he got drafted? He said, "Man, I'm finna come in there and I'm finna break every record they got." I said, "Yeah, I like it."

• 46:23Fred Taylor?

  He did say that.

• 46:24Speaker 01

  I like it. Then Priestley came along, everybody jumping on his back. "Oh, he dropping this, he dropping that," and you know me, I'm right on Twitter. "Man, y'all shut up. The man ain't played in the whole season. Give him a little time to get in the rhythm and get his feet back underneath him."

• 46:37Ryan Clark?

  When you look at them now, though, because like, I get pride, obviously, because they both LSU boys. So I love it. But they got T. Higgins too, you know what I mean?

• 46:44Speaker 01

  T. Ball.

• 46:44Ryan Clark?

  So you think of duos, right?

• 46:46Fred Taylor?

  No, don't say duo. Don't forget Tyler Boyd.

• 46:49Ryan Clark?

  What I'm about to say, no, I got it. But, yeah, I think too, though, you had TJ.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  TJ.

• 46:53Ryan Clark?

  And you had Chris. Like, this team, Tyler, T., Jamar, Joe Mixon.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  And we had Rudy back then.

• 47:00Ryan Clark?

  You know what I mean?

• 47:01Speaker 01

  A little different, though, right?

• 47:02Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, a little different. But when you look at this team, though, like, do you think they changed the fortune of the Bengals?

• 47:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, they definitely did. They're going to. They're going to. And I think the thing about it is, they're gonna do what we did. Remember that excitement, it was hard for you to tell you guys, but that excitement we had, or the fans had, that 2005 season, and we were running the table, week in and week out, and it didn't matter.

• 47:24Ryan Clark?

  That wasn't the champion, huh?

• 47:25Speaker 01

  Huh?

• 47:26Ryan Clark?

  That wasn't the champion.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  That was the Carson year.

• 47:27Ryan Clark?

  No, I'm saying, that wasn't the year you lose with Champ Cus, no?

• 47:31Speaker 01

  No, I don't think so.

• 47:32Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  I don't think so. But that excitement and that feeling of hope, finally we got a team that can actually compete. You know, winning the division, me going on a limb. I said way back in August, remember that clip with Molly? They laughed at me. I said, "Man, in August, I was on with Molly and I forgot the other guys. I told them, "Man, listen, we finna win the AFC North this year, just before the season even started." Based on what Zach Taylor had done to that point, and to understanding what Chase was finna do, being with Burrow, and what they did in college, and being able to transition from college to NFL and do it again, it ain't gonna be that hard.

• 48:10Ryan Clark?

  Right, so they took over the Ocho cigar smoke. Are you gonna be able to leave Baby Serenity long enough to go smoke one with him if they get him a couple of dubs?

• 48:20Speaker 01

  I don't think she gonna do it.

• 48:22Fred Taylor?

  What's your AFC prediction?

• 48:24Speaker 01

  Who do you think we gonna match up with? Indy.

• 48:26Fred Taylor?

  Indy.

• 48:26Ryan Clark?

  That's a tough, that's a tough game.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  Ain't no tough game. We winning that. We winning that.

• 48:31Ryan Clark?

  Ain't no tough game. Jonathan, Jonathan Taylor?

• 48:34Speaker 01

  Eight in the box.

• 48:36Ryan Clark?

  Okay. Eli Apple on the outside.

• 48:38Fred Taylor?

  He's seen that all year.

• 48:39Ryan Clark?

  Awuzie.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Awuzie is ballin'.

• 48:42Ryan Clark?

  Ballin', he's killin'.

• 48:43Speaker 01

  Ballin', so we good. Who we gotta stop?

• 48:45Ryan Clark?

  Pittman.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  Pittman, Pittman, Pittman, Pittman, son, remember Pittman?

• 48:48Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  He had arms, arms like lions.

• 48:50Ryan Clark?

  Tampa, Tampa running back.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:52Fred Taylor?

  You know I like that 28 though, he got the same last name, anybody with the same number? With eight in the box. He seen eight in the box, I seen eight in the box in Pittsburgh. Gave him a buck fifty in the snow.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  Well, it's different.

• 49:03Ryan Clark?

  And you remember I was sick?

• 49:04Fred Taylor?

  Don't matter.

• 49:05Ryan Clark?

  Like, why you, I was sick? Stop, don't point over me.

• 49:07Fred Taylor?

  Nah, I ain't mean to point at you.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  Golly.

• 49:09Fred Taylor?

  I'm just saying Pittsburgh.

• 49:11Ryan Clark?

  Why were you sick? What was wrong? Do we have to go through that again? Cause your, your body is weak. I was, I lost my organs, Channing, we talk about this every week. That's not a mistake.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  What you got, your appendix removed?

• 49:23Ryan Clark?

  No, he got his whole, all his insides are gone. My spleen, my gallbladder, a piece of my liver. Everything's gone in him, Ocho. I don't know if you know, he has nothing in his stomach. Had a sickle cell crisis in Denver.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, okay, okay.

• 49:33Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, the sickle cell took everything out of him. He got a heart. That's not nothing you make fun of, Channing. And a booty hole.

• 49:44Fred Taylor?

  You know, I gotta tell you. Help yourself, man.

• 49:46Ryan Clark?

  No, no.

• 49:47Fred Taylor?

  Every week.

• 49:47Ryan Clark?

  I wanna, so I wanna start and finish with you though. How are you enjoying parenting?

• 49:52Speaker 01

  Enjoying parenting, it never stopped. It never stopped. I've been parenting since 87. Do the math at home, I've been parenting since 87. And it just, I think I like it now, being able to start over. So I think I get to experience now what it's like to be a full-time father.

• 50:10Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  No football in the way.

• 50:12Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  No practice, no leaving. I get to pick up, drop off, parent teacher conference. He got in trouble, okay, I'm on the way now. I get to go to open house. This was called open house, right?

• 50:24Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  I get to do parent teacher conferences at some point.

• 50:28Fred Taylor?

  So who taught you the Obamony?

• 50:29Speaker 01

  Huh?

• 50:30Fred Taylor?

  Because my thigh is too big, I can't do it.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  When Ryan asked me that question, I just felt I need to cross my, I need to cross my knee just to answer the right way.

• 50:36Fred Taylor?

  So it's the Obamony?

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Nah, I was doing this before Obama.

• 50:40Channing Crowder?

  You taught Obama that?

• 50:41Speaker 01

  Nah, this is something I, I got this from my granddaddy back in the day. I actually can't do that either.

• 50:45Fred Taylor?

  Me either.

• 50:46Speaker 01

  You can't cross your leg?

• 50:47Ryan Clark?

  Nah.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  Your pants too tight. It's not my pants, bro, my hips too tight.

• 50:50Channing Crowder?

  No, he's sick, man, he's sick.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  Your hips too tight? Yeah, my hips too tight.

• 50:52Fred Taylor?

  I know he can do it, because he got his mama.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  You got what?

• 50:56Channing Crowder?

  Huh? I got my mom, I got my mama Peter Wee.

• 50:59Speaker 01

  What that mean?

• 51:00Channing Crowder?

  That mean my daddy had a big Peter Wee and I don't, so my mom swiper is what I got through genetics. So that's why I can, yeah, my mom. My mama's side of the family gave me my swipe side.

• 51:12Fred Taylor?

  Why did I do that, bro? My bad.

• 51:13Channing Crowder?

  You see how I can cross, I can cross it over there on the other side of the room by knee, but I can cross that thing way over here.

• 51:19Fred Taylor?

  Your hip's bad too.

• 51:19Channing Crowder?

  It's nothing, it's nothing stopping it.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  You see, every time, when, when my leg go, it go, so it fall with me.

• 51:26Channing Crowder?

  It hits the chair?

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's. Be in the toilet, when you sit down, it don't hit, hit the water?

• 51:31Channing Crowder?

  Man, I had to pour, I had to pour three buggers of water in the toilet for it to hit the water.

• 51:36Fred Taylor?

  Same shit, different show.

• 52:04Speaker 05

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 52:09Speaker 06

  We go E.

• 52:12Speaker 05

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