Master Your Relationships & Attract Lasting Love w/ Jay Shetty EP 1417

https://lewishowes.com/mindset - Order a copy of my new book The Greatness Mindset today! Jay Shetty is a #1 New York Times bestselling author, award-winning podcast host of On Purpose, and the Chief Purpose Officer of Calm. Since launching his video channel in 2016, Jay’s viral wisdom videos have garnered over 7 billion views and gained over 35 million followers globally. He is one of the more viewed people on the internet internationally. Be sure to check out Jay’s newest book, 8 Rules of Love. In this episode you will learn, The difference between toxic and conscious love. The greatest skill everyone should learn in order to master love. Why so many of us don’t feel worthy of love, and how to change that limiting mindset. For more, go to lewishowes.com/1417Check out Jay’s prior episodes here!https://link.chtbl.com/1386-pod5 Mistakes You Must Avoid To Find Deeper Connection: https://link.chtbl.com/1322-podCan You Make Money & Also Be Spiritual? https://link.chtbl.com/1298-podTrain Your Mind For Peace And Purpose Everyday: https://link.chtbl.com/953-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Lewis Howes?

  I firmly believe that taking charge of your mindset allows you to be in the driver's seat of your life and unlock your potential. And that's why I'm thrilled to share that my new book is out right now. It's called The Greatness Mindset. In it, you'll learn how to build a plan for greatness through powerful exercises and toolkits designed to propel your life forward. This is the book that I wish I had 20 years ago. It's everything I've learned in the last decade with the research and the science to help you unlock your mind. Make sure to go to lewishouse.com/2023mindset to pick up your copy of my book, The Greatness Mindset, today.

• 0:40Jay Shetty?

  Toxic love is when your trauma is the oxygen for your relationship. Right? If you think about the word, like the idea that your trauma is what you're breathing into the relationship.

• 0:55Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 1:19Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious, what is the difference between toxic love and conscious love?

• 1:26Lewis Howes?

  Because I feel like a lot of people get into relationships based on a wound and it causes, you know, toxic chemicals that might feel like love. But then they unwind after six months, a year, two years, and it feels like then it's not conscious love. That they got into it from a chemical romance, wounded, as opposed to conscious healing, integrating that into a relationship. What is the difference between toxic love and conscious love?

• 1:59Jay Shetty?

  Toxic love is where both people are working independently to use the relationship to serve their own needs. That's toxic love. And conscious love is where both people independently take care of themselves so they can bring their best self to each other. And where this often goes wrong is that toxic love turns into a competition. Toxic love now is who's doing more for each other? Who gives more love to each other? Who does more work around the house? You turn the whole thing into a competition, which is not teamwork. And conscious love is not saying you're the selfless one.

• 2:44Jay Shetty?

  It's you're making agreements. I think that's the mistake that love was constantly, conscious love was always like, be selfless, love more than the other person, give more. That's not healthy either. What's healthy is we're actually going to create boundaries. We're actually going to create agreements. We're actually going to create principles. We're going to create rules. The reason why I called the book Eight Rules of Love is my hope that it will inspire other couples to create their own list of rules in their own relationship. A conscious relationship is one that is built on a foundation of healthy agreements. Yes. Toxic love is, it's interesting when you look at the word toxic as well. Tell me.

• 3:26Jay Shetty?

  So toxic love is when your trauma is the oxygen for your relationship. Right? If you think about the word, like the idea that your trauma is what you're breathing into the relationship. That is so true. Right? You're just breathing your trauma into the relationship. So you bring all your baggage, all your insecurities, and you're somehow expecting the other person to inhale it all and then figure out how to respond and react. Right. Whereas a conscious relationship is saying that I have these things. I'm trying to heal them. I'm going to make my partner aware of what I'm healing because I'm not fully healed. Yes. And now that they're aware and I'm working on it, we can also work on it together. So I think we've also had this unhealthy idea of conscious love being,

• 4:11Jay Shetty?

  you're fully healed and then you come. It's like, that's not true. It's a journey. And so, but the thing about the journey is, are you working on yourself? Have you communicated to your partner what you're working on so that they can be aware? And thirdly, have you found a way to get support? I had a friend whose uh partner was addicted to porn. And they came up to me and they were saying that their partner feels shameful and guilty and wants to work on it. And I said, you have two choices. You can either leave them because you don't believe them and this affects you negatively, which it was. Or you can stay with them and support them through their journey because they want to change. It's not that you're forcing them to change.

• 4:52Lewis Howes?

  And they're honest about it, they're coming to you about it, they're vulnerable.

• 4:55Jay Shetty?

  Exactly, they're vulnerable, they're open about it, they're honest about it. And what I found in that scenario was that that person was able to support their partner. Now they have a really healthy relationship. But the thing is that we can't also, we, a toxic relationship is also when you use someone's trauma against them. So someone's been vulnerable with you about what they're struggling with. And now you use it as ammunition in an argument to shoot them down.

• 5:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 5:23Jay Shetty?

  And so when people are vulnerable with you and they're honest with you and they're transparent with you, don't use that against them because basically you're saying to them, don't be honest with me. And I think that's this really interesting thing. We all say, I want someone who's honest. But then when someone says something honest that's uncomfortable, we say, no, no, no, I don't want your honesty. Or I don't like that. And I think you push the other person away.

• 5:44Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 5:45Jay Shetty?

  And so, yes, if it's really, if they share something that's really not aligned with your values, of course, you can leave and move on. But chances are if they're opening up about a journey they're on, it's worth giving it an opportunity to support them if they're serious about it.

• 6:00Lewis Howes?

  I love your definition of toxic love versus conscious love. And when I was hearing you say this, I was thinking that conscious love is also wanting to take emotional responsibility and accountability for emotions, as opposed to saying, you made me feel this way. You said this, you didn't do this, and it made me explode on you. It's having the emotional responsibility to to manage it. And if you aren't good at managing it, saying, I take full accountability. And I'm working on that healing journey. And I think that responsibility and accountability adds to the potential growth for conscious love.

• 6:39Jay Shetty?

  I love that. That's such a great point. It's such a great question, too, because you also realize that we have so many flawed views of conscious love, too.

• 6:47Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 6:48Jay Shetty?

  And so people always think like, oh, toxic love, that's the worst. You could actually be doing pseudo-conscious love, and that's even worse sometimes.

• 6:54Lewis Howes?

  What does that mean, like a spiritual bypass to conscious love?

• 6:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, or like you're practicing it in a really superficial way. Like, it's conscious in the language and the way you talk about it, but you're doing unhealthy things.

• 7:07Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 7:08Jay Shetty?

  Like, for example, you could think you're in conscious love, but you can't deal with someone's honesty. You think you're in conscious love, but you don't feel comfortable having uncomfortable conversations. You think, oh, yeah, we just talk about good stuff and everything's positive.

• 7:23Lewis Howes?

  Perfect all the time.

• 7:24Jay Shetty?

  Everything's perfect all the time, and we never.

• 7:25Lewis Howes?

  We never argue.

• 7:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, we never argue. And it's like, well, no, it's important to have uncomfortable conversations. And so I find that a lot of couples struggle with having these uncomfortable conversations. We didn't get into fight styles, but we'll get there whenever you want, because that question was so good. That question was so good. And don't feel.

• 7:40Lewis Howes?

  Fight styles.

• 7:41Jay Shetty?

  I'm saying this as a friend now, like off camera, in the sense of like, this is so good, bro. Like, this is an interview that I haven't done with anyone, because it's not about the book and we're getting into it. So it's like, don't feel any pressure to go into the, like.

• 7:52Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 7:52Jay Shetty?

  The stuff we're talking about is amazing.

• 7:53Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 7:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, I just reiterating as a friend. Yeah, yeah, it's so good.

• 7:57Lewis Howes?

  So what were you gonna say, though? You were gonna say something.

• 7:59Jay Shetty?

  I was I was just saying that this superficial idea of conscious love becomes really practiced as a deeper love. So so, yeah, like, we don't argue. But we avoid having uncomfortable conversations. Everything's always good, but I often go to sleep at night wondering what they're thinking. Right? Like, that's not conscious, because it looks good. It's conscious because you're constantly working on it. I think we're so scared of accepting that something may need fixing, because that means it's broken. But it's not broken. There's just parts to relook at.

• 8:36Lewis Howes?

  Yes. What are the things that most people don't think are harmful to hurting?

• 8:45Lewis Howes?

  Loving relationships that are actually the most harm. Not like he cheated, or she's lied to me, or he's watching porn, or whatever that is.

• 8:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 8:57Lewis Howes?

  But what are actually the things that most people think, that's not really that big a deal.

• 9:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 9:02Lewis Howes?

  That actually you do it year after year after year is a big deal breaker in ruining relationships.

• 9:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 9:08Lewis Howes?

  Maybe it's a little things, maybe it's the, you know, whatever it might be.

• 9:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, there's a few things I can think of.

• 9:17Jay Shetty?

  I'd say there's four coming to mind right now.

• 9:20Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 9:21Jay Shetty?

  The first one I'd say is the idea of control. I think we're trying to control the other person, but it doesn't look like control. It looks like care. And that's the interesting thing.

• 9:33Lewis Howes?

  It's like manipulative.

• 9:35Jay Shetty?

  Correct.

• 9:36Lewis Howes?

  Care.

• 9:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly. So, control in a relationship can often look like care. But, deep down, you're doing it because you want to control the other person.

• 9:46Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 9:46Jay Shetty?

  So, you wanna tell them what to wear. You wanna tell them how to spend their money and how to invest it. You wanna tell them how to live their life, and which friends are good for them, and which friends are bad for them. Now, it's different when that's a conversation from them to you and asking for your advice. But the best thing you can do as a coach, a partner, a guide, a friend, is to help someone understand what their goals are. We talk about this all the time. Like, we don't project what I think is a worthy life, or a worthy podcast, or a worthy home, onto what someone else wants, because we all have different values. And so, I think we do, controlling means, I don't want to understand your values and what you believe in.

• 10:29Jay Shetty?

  I'm going to project mine onto you, because I think they're superior anyway.

• 10:33Lewis Howes?

  And I feel more comfortable if that's the case.

• 10:34Jay Shetty?

  And it's very subtle, like, this is something you have to really monitor, like, you know, I'll give an example of like, I've always been driven, or at least I've been driven for a lot of my adult life. And, one thing I had to be really careful for when I met Radhi was to not project my ambition and drive onto how she lives.

• 10:54Lewis Howes?

  And hoping she does the same thing.

• 10:55Jay Shetty?

  Correct, because Radhi's this beautiful, abundant, like, sun energy.

• 11:01Lewis Howes?

  Joyful, feminine, flowing.

• 11:02Jay Shetty?

  Flowing, and she's in flow. And that's what makes her beautiful, that's what makes her attractive, it's what makes her special to me and to everyone else who knows her. And, if I try and contain that. And try and direct it towards what I think it should be. I could potentially make her lose all of that.

• 11:20Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 11:20Jay Shetty?

  And so I've seen my role with Rudi is being more protecting and helping her protect that than exploiting it.

• 11:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 11:27Jay Shetty?

  And I think it's so easy for us to think, well, I'm driven and I'm ambitious and look what I've done. And so my partner should do that too. And it's like, well, maybe they shouldn't. I remember I was speaking to a client, actually, no, this was a friend, they weren't a client. I was speaking to a friend and she was saying, oh, you know, my partner, he's lazy. He doesn't work hard. He doesn't have any ambition. And I said, well, if you want someone who has ambition, is driven and works hard, then he's not your guy. That's basically all it's saying.

• 11:54Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 11:55Jay Shetty?

  And she was saying, no, no, no, but he's really kind and loving and thoughtful. And I was like, okay, well, which one do you want? And, and if you want both, go out there and look for it, but chances are that's tough too.

• 12:05Lewis Howes?

  Or he may not, if he's driven, he may not have as much time for you.

• 12:07Jay Shetty?

  That's what it was. And that's what she, that's exactly what she discovered. That she was like, I want someone who's driven and present. And I was like, they can be present in the moment, but they're not going to have as much time available.

• 12:16Lewis Howes?

  Or at least not during their season of being driven.

• 12:18Jay Shetty?

  Correct.

• 12:19Lewis Howes?

  Maybe in twenty, thirty years, it'll change, but you can't expect it to change.

• 12:23Jay Shetty?

  Exactly.

• 12:23Lewis Howes?

  Okay. So that's number one, the idea of control.

• 12:25Jay Shetty?

  Yes. The second one, which again is subtle, and that's why I love your quality of your question. Because it's like, what do we miss or what do we not see is comparison.

• 12:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 12:35Jay Shetty?

  I think we do it without even knowing. I've heard couples literally say, oh, did you see like where they went for their anniversary trip? And there's some passive messaging in there.

• 12:46Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 12:47Jay Shetty?

  And you're passing it off like you're really happy for this person, but really there's this part of you that's saying, we didn't do that. Or I wish we did that. Or why don't you think of stuff like that? And I think passive aggression in comparison, comparison will make your partner feel un. Comparison is the number one thing you can do to make your partner feel devalued and unlovable. There is nothing like comparing your partner to another person. Now, some people will say, I'm not comparing them. I'm just saying what someone else is doing.

• 13:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, but you're pointing out something that we're not doing, which makes me feel like I'm not enough.

• 13:23Jay Shetty?

  Exactly. That is, that is the bottom line.

• 13:25Lewis Howes?

  That's it. And you do that week after week, year after year, you're like, I'm never enough for this person. What do I need to do so they start celebrating what we're doing, not what everyone else is doing?

• 13:34Jay Shetty?

  Exactly, exactly. And I think that that comparing is, is so unhealthy.

• 13:38Lewis Howes?

  Yep, okay.

• 13:39Jay Shetty?

  Uh, two more.

• 13:42Jay Shetty?

  I think complaining about your partner to your family and other people, it creates a loop. So if you complain about your partner to your family, then your family is gonna check in with you. And then you complain again, and then they check in with you. Now, I'm not saying you don't talk to your family about your partner, but there's a difference in saying, hey, we're going through this, and we're going to therapy, and we're figuring this out. Versus, he's so this, she's so that, they're so that. And I find that that complaining that we do, it also seeps into what we spot in our partner. We're now looking for them to confirm our complaint. So if we just complained about our partner and said, oh, they never do this.

• 14:24Jay Shetty?

  When we go home and they haven't washed the dishes, we're like, oh yeah, see, I was right. And now we're double triggered.

• 14:30Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 14:30Jay Shetty?

  Rather than talking to them and communicating and saying, hey, when I come home from work and I see this, I'm triggered by X, Y, Z. Let's talk about this, the complaining.

• 14:38Lewis Howes?

  Yep, and that goes back into your, your third agreement of, of love.

• 14:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 14:42Lewis Howes?

  I love that.

• 14:43Jay Shetty?

  And the fourth and final one that comes to mind right now is, uh, this, this one's really tough because I, I had a friend who was going through this a lot. Whenever he was making progress in something, like, let's say he got a promotion. His partner would say to him, I don't know how they promote you, I never see you work.

• 15:02Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 15:03Jay Shetty?

  It was criticism.

• 15:04Lewis Howes?

  Diminishing them.

• 15:05Jay Shetty?

  Diminishing them, so it's criticism. Yeah, it's like diminishing them about something that they've achieved or missed out on. Or someone saying, oh, I didn't get that promotion. And you say, well, yeah, I didn't really see you work for it. Right? So there's criticism either way. And I think we do this because we wanna be honest with our partners, or we want to tell them the truth, we don't wanna lie to them. Or most of the time, it's because we're hard on ourselves.

• 15:30Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 15:31Jay Shetty?

  We're criticizing ourselves for not achieving what we wanted. And now we project that criticism onto our partner for what they wanted. And criticism ends up making someone feel so far away from you. Like, criticism increases distance.

• 15:47Jay Shetty?

  In a relationship, it pushes someone so far away because you've made them feel unworthy, unwanted, and not enough.

• 15:55Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 15:55Jay Shetty?

  And again, I'm not saying the opposite is praise your partner, tell them really nice things about themselves, but there's a way to communicate about and challenges they're going through. It's not in the moment saying, hey, I didn't get the job. Oh, yeah, well, better luck next time, or, oh, it didn't quite work out. And you might say, well, people don't do this. I promise you, what I'd love for everyone to do with this, I'm gonna set a little challenge. If you're in a relationship, I want you to do an audit or a count of how many of these you do every week about your partner.

• 16:25Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 16:25Jay Shetty?

  So just do it honestly. Honestly, for the next seven days, if you're in a relationship, think about how often you complain, compare, criticize, or try to control, and just keep a count. Now, you may get through the week and you only do one, that's amazing, I'm really, really happy. But if you're really self-aware and you're really questioning yourself, I'd find that even I do a few of these things constantly.

• 16:48Lewis Howes?

  And it's even, I think this is a beautiful audit, and probably a lot of people don't even, aren't even aware they're doing it.

• 16:55Jay Shetty?

  That's what it is.

• 16:56Lewis Howes?

  Such a pattern and an unconscious reaction to seeing something.

• 17:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 17:01Lewis Howes?

  And even if you don't do it verbally, I would ask yourself to audit it internally.

• 17:05Jay Shetty?

  That's what I'm saying, yeah.

• 17:06Lewis Howes?

  Am I criticizing, am I comparing, without even saying it? Maybe I, I keep the peace and I don't say what I really think, but are you thinking it?

• 17:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you're scolding on social media.

• 17:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, am I comparing, am I complaining in my mind, I wish she would do this, I wish she would do this, but without saying it, that's still like creating this rumination inside of you. I love that audit. We are, we are here talking about eight rules of love, how to find it, how to keep it, and how to let it go. If you guys haven't got a copy yet, make sure to get ten copies right now. Uh, this question is about the greatest skill you think that everyone should learn in order to master love. What is that skill that will allow them to find it, keep it, and let it go, but really to master it?

• 17:51Jay Shetty?

  I'd say the number one skill to master love and relationships is to remember that in every relationship, there are three relationships. The one you have with yourself, the one your partner has with themselves, and then the one you have with each other.

• 18:08Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, that's good.

• 18:09Jay Shetty?

  And I think so often, we only think about the one we have with each other. We don't realize that so many of the challenges in our relationship are because of our relationship with ourselves and our partner's relationship with themselves. We think, I'm doing everything, but they don't feel better. But that's because they're going through something internally. We think, I'm giving them everything, I'm doing everything they need, I'm here supporting them. But if they've got something going on internally, they can't even receive any of that. And so often, we look at it through the lens of it's just me and them. That's just not true. And so you have to remember that there was a you before, there was a you during, and there's a you after every relationship.

• 18:50Jay Shetty?

  And there's a them before, a them during, and a them after every relationship. And when you accept and understand that, you can actually solve problems easier because now you have three things to look at, rather than just one. So you can start to understand, okay, well, is that their internal thing? Is it my thing? Let's check with them, let's communicate, let's figure that out.

• 19:12Lewis Howes?

  You just gotta really become a master of human dynamics. It's like understanding human dynamics and all that stuff. It's interesting, when I was playing sports, I remember a coach asked us at one point, he said, there's always three teams on the field. Your team, the team you're playing against, and then the refs.

• 19:31Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 19:32Lewis Howes?

  There's always like, you know, you're never just playing against the team. You've got to be aware of how the refs are calling the game, how to influence the game in certain ways, you know, how to show up differently. But there's, it's never just you versus someone else, or you with someone else. It's always like, your interpretation to yourself, their interpretation, outsiders. There's always so much else going on. But I think, yeah, that skill of understanding there's three relationships in one, and navigating those. I really think of that as like just learning how to master emotions. You know, it's like learning how to be the master of your emotions, understand someone else's emotions, and the emotion that you're creating together. Speaking of creating together, you mentioned this a little bit before. About conscious love.

• 20:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 20:13Lewis Howes?

  Having agreements, principles, boundaries and rules, which I think is a great thing. Most people don't have that. They just have assumptions and expectations.

• 20:20Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 20:21Lewis Howes?

  That goes more into toxic love.

• 20:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 20:23Lewis Howes?

  A friend of mine, Ryan Holmes, told me this years ago. When he got married, I was like, what has made this like a healthy relationship for you? He was like, you know, we created a, what did he call it, like a family vision?

• 20:35Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 20:35Lewis Howes?

  We created, we actually sat down and we created like a family crest.

• 20:39Jay Shetty?

  Mm hmm.

• 20:40Lewis Howes?

  Like a sign, a symbol of what we wanted to mold together to build our family. Something like they used to do in England like five hundred years ago.

• 20:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 20:49Lewis Howes?

  And he said, doing that allowed us to get clear on our principles, what we wanted to really step into, how we wanted to serve each other and our communities, our families and the world. And I thought that's cool. Is there anything that you have around building kind of like a relationship motto? Uh, you know, crest, uh, vision? Is there anything you talk about around that?

• 21:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I, I talk a lot about how there's, there's three things you've got. Liking someone's personality.

• 21:16Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 21:17Jay Shetty?

  You've got respecting their values. And then you've got a commitment towards helping them get to their goals.

• 21:25Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 21:26Jay Shetty?

  Right? So that's my definition of love. My definition of love is when you like someone's personality, when you respect their values and you're committed to helping them towards their goals. Which means you have to know what your values are and theirs. And you have to know what your goals are and theirs.

• 21:42Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 21:43Jay Shetty?

  And someone asked me the other day, they're about to get married and they said, Jay, what's your advice? And I said, do you know your partner's top three values?

• 21:53Lewis Howes?

  Ooh.

• 21:54Jay Shetty?

  And they struggled.

• 21:56Lewis Howes?

  They're like, oh, I think so.

• 21:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and they were saying.

• 21:58Lewis Howes?

  Friends and family.

• 21:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly. Like very, very broad things.

• 22:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 22:02Jay Shetty?

  And I was like, well, what, what does that mean? Like, what's the hierarchy? Like, what's the order? And then I said, well, do you know your partner's goals for the next 12 months? And they struggled again. They were like, oh, I don't know. Like, they're just settling into a new job. And I was thinking, if you don't know who your partner is and where they're going. Then how are you meant to be their partner? And so to me, check-ins about these three things.

• 22:26Lewis Howes?

  That's good.

• 22:26Jay Shetty?

  Regularly and consistently, give you a full vision of who your partner is and where they're headed.

• 22:32Lewis Howes?

  And that's so good. Liking their personality is what you said first, right? If you don't like someone's personality, you're gonna spend 10,000 meals with them, you better enjoy their personality.

• 22:40Jay Shetty?

  Exactly. And that's the study that shows that to make some, and me and you are great friends because of this, by this definition too. And I've really thought about this. So to make someone a casual friend, you should have spent 40 hours with them. Forty hours for a casual friend. If you consider someone a good friend, you have to spend 100 hours with them. And if you consider someone a great friend, you should have spent 200 hours with them. We've definitely spent more than 200 hours together. But that's the question I would ask. When you say like their personality, can you spend 200 present hours together? Not just 200 hours watching TV or the movies, present hours.

• 23:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, with no distractions.

• 23:18Jay Shetty?

  With no distractions.

• 23:18Lewis Howes?

  You and the other person, you know, I heard this, I think it was a year ago about like, you're gonna spend 10,000 meals with someone.

• 23:24Jay Shetty?

  That's nice.

• 23:25Lewis Howes?

  Forever, you know? Can you sit across the table and have 10,000 meals and enjoy the meals, you know, for the most part?

• 23:31Jay Shetty?

  Yep.

• 23:32Lewis Howes?

  So I love this liking personality, respecting values. I think, you know, with Martha, I got so clear on my values and communicating it effectively. And she asked me early on, I've told you this before. She asked me early on, the, what are your priorities, Lewis? Question. I don't know, maybe a month into dating, like, what are your real priorities in life, right? That like every man fears answering. And I said, ooh, do I step into courage here or do I shy back to keep it comfortable and not stir the boat? And I remember saying, well, I wanna be very honest and authentic with you, but I don't know if you're gonna like it. And I don't know if you're gonna wanna hang out in this way anymore.

• 24:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 24:15Lewis Howes?

  She was thinking that I'm gonna say something like horrible. And I was like, do you want me to be fully honest? And she looked at me and she said, yes. I said, are you sure? Because I've been honest in the past and people don't like it.

• 24:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 24:26Lewis Howes?

  Are you sure? And she said, yes.

• 24:30Lewis Howes?

  Take a deep breath. I'm like, okay, I gotta have this courage. Cause I just know that I, I, I thought that she wouldn't like what I was about to say.

• 24:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 24:37Lewis Howes?

  And I said, okay, here are my three main values in order in life. Number one is I value my health and that needs to be like my top priority. Because if I'm sick, I can't do really anything. So I need to take care of health first and you need to support me in making sure that I use my energy to do that on a consistent basis. You can't pull me away from my health or healthy activities. Or make me feel bad for going to the gym or whatever it is. Number one. Number two, uh, priority number two is my purpose, my mission. Like in the season of life, the mission that I have right now, and that's being all in, focused on that and not feeling bad about it.

• 25:19Lewis Howes?

  Not taking time away from it. Um, you know, not being resentful of it, any of those things. That's priority number two. And I was like, no woman wants to hear from their man or potential man that they're not their number one or number two priority. And I said, then number three would be my relationship. You know, if we're gonna end up dating together, it would be us.

• 25:39Jay Shetty?

  Yep.

• 25:40Lewis Howes?

  And, and I said, that doesn't mean you wouldn't be like, I would never have time for you.

• 25:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I'm not gonna choose the gym over you.

• 25:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I need to make sure those first two priorities are set in stone so that I can actually give to you more. So that I can be more present with you, so I can give you fully abundantly and we can do all the things you wanna do. You're gonna feel like number one, but you need to know that number one and two, I have to do these first.

• 26:08Jay Shetty?

  So good.

• 26:08Lewis Howes?

  And you will feel like the most important person in the world.

• 26:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 26:12Lewis Howes?

  But if I don't feel healthy, if I'm being pulled away from my purpose and my mission, I'm not gonna be good for you.

• 26:18Jay Shetty?

  Hmm, so good.

• 26:19Lewis Howes?

  And she looked at me, she goes, this is amazing. And she goes.

• 26:23Jay Shetty?

  I can imagine what to say there.

• 26:25Lewis Howes?

  She said, this is amazing. I love this. And I go, really? Cause I'm thinking like, I've, I've experienced and I've heard other people experience that if you're not making your woman your number one priority.

• 26:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 26:36Lewis Howes?

  If you don't put me first over everything, then it's like a stressful experience.

• 26:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 26:40Lewis Howes?

  And for me, that goes back into toxic love. And it's not about you aren't my top priority. It's prioritizing health and purpose and service.

• 26:53Lewis Howes?

  Whether you want to call it the same level or just above it.

• 26:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 26:56Lewis Howes?

  So that you have the energy to be present to your relationship. At least that's for me, what I feel like a man needs to be in their relationship. They're on, they gotta be on purpose, right? And she told me, I love it because I've never been with a man who had a purpose. They always made me their purpose. And after a while, it doesn't feel good. You're like, go out and do the thing you want to do in life. Like, I don't care if you want to, you know, serve two people a day, but go do something that you're excited about, not just make it about me.

• 27:25Jay Shetty?

  Yep.

• 27:25Lewis Howes?

  And so, give me your thoughts on this, you know,

• 27:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 27:29Lewis Howes?

  this, this idea, this philosophy. If you think that's in alignment with your eight rules of love, or if you think that's, I'm crazy and I just got a lucky one who just accepts me for that.

• 27:40Jay Shetty?

  I love it. So it's really interesting you say you did that because inside my book, Eight Rules of Love, I actually talk about how I gave a client that same exercise. So I asked them to rank their top three priorities in order, and I was coaching the couple. So, the man wrote, you, the kids, me. And she wrote, me, the kids, you.

• 28:08Lewis Howes?

  This is so funny, man.

• 28:09Jay Shetty?

  He was so upset, like he was.

• 28:11Lewis Howes?

  Go ahead.

• 28:12Jay Shetty?

  No, go ahead.

• 28:12Lewis Howes?

  This is funny because, I want to unpack this because I went to Caesar Milan, the dogless park, and I took my team to do like a full day leadership training, which you gotta take your team one day.

• 28:23Jay Shetty?

  So cool.

• 28:24Lewis Howes?

  And he walks.

• 28:24Jay Shetty?

  I'm always scared Caesar's gonna give me a dog, that's why I don't go. I know, right? I'm so scared.

• 28:28Lewis Howes?

  And he, and he talks about the dynamics, at least in America, of married couples, where if you, if he asked most women, what's the priorities in the relationship? It's, it's like, mom, kids, dog, then the husband.

• 28:48Lewis Howes?

  This is what he says a lot of women say. It's like the husband is last because they get this unconditional love from the dog. But that's after the kids.

• 28:55Jay Shetty?

  Oh my gosh.

• 28:55Lewis Howes?

  And then husband. And he's like, we've got it all backwards.

• 28:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 29:00Lewis Howes?

  We need to be, the parents need to be leading the pack.

• 29:02Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 29:03Lewis Howes?

  Together, side by side.

• 29:04Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 29:05Lewis Howes?

  Right? So anyways, I don't wanna.

• 29:06Jay Shetty?

  No, no, no, I love that. That's a beautiful point.

• 29:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, so, so you said, he had one thing which was her, the kids and then himself, and she had herself, the kids, and then the man.

• 29:16Jay Shetty?

  Exactly, exactly.

• 29:17Lewis Howes?

  And so what happened from that dynamic? And what happens when you enter or in a relationship like that?

• 29:23Jay Shetty?

  Well, he was distraught and he was really upset because he was just like, how can I be third on your list? And even more than that, he was actually upset that she put herself first. That's what he was more upset about. He actually wasn't that upset about being third. He was more upset about, how are you first for yourself? How is it not the kids?

• 29:43Lewis Howes?

  Or the kids.

• 29:43Jay Shetty?

  How is it not the kids? And her response was similar to yours, that I want to be present, energized, and my best for you and the kids. I don't wanna give my leftovers to you and the kids. And I often say this to people, like if someone is emotionally and energetically dead, how can they keep you alive? It doesn't make any sense, like. And so what we have to understand is someone's not being selfish by focusing on themselves if they're doing it with a selfless spirit. That's the key.

• 30:18Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 30:18Jay Shetty?

  So you may meet a man who's not like Lewis and says, yeah, I'm first for me, I'm first. And they're only doing that because they think they're first. There's no, I'm gonna take care of myself so I can be better for you.

• 30:33Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 30:33Jay Shetty?

  That's the spirit you're looking for. So you're looking for someone who's selfish with a selfless spirit.

• 30:40Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 30:40Jay Shetty?

  Not just someone who's selfish. And there's a difference.

• 30:43Lewis Howes?

  True.

• 30:44Jay Shetty?

  And it could sound like the same thing. It could even look like the same thing. You could meet someone who says, I'm dedicated to my purpose, I'm dedicated to who I am. But it's not anything to do with you. And I think that's the difference. People who prioritize self-care in order to serve, that's the self-care we want in our lives. And so that's what I'm encouraging people that you should always take care of yourself so you can take care of your partner, so you can take care of your kids. You're not just taking self-care of yourself just. Like, it has to go somewhere.

• 31:14Lewis Howes?

  And being lazy about everything else.

• 31:16Jay Shetty?

  Exactly.

• 31:17Lewis Howes?

  Speaking of priorities,

• 31:20Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious your thoughts on what is more triggering and harder to talk about in intimacy, which will lead to marriage? Is it around money or how to raise kids? Or are they kind of equal in their triggering?

• 31:36Jay Shetty?

  No, I'd actually say that, this is such a great question. I'd actually say that more of our trauma, because this is what's interesting, right? The honest answer is it depends on what your trauma is, but most people's trauma comes out more strongly in how to raise kids. Because now it goes back to how they were raised.

• 31:57Lewis Howes?

  And what they got, what they didn't get, how you're treated.

• 32:00Jay Shetty?

  Exactly. So I'd say that raising kids becomes a really tension-filled point for couples because both either think the way they were raised was great or both had bad experiences and now they're repeating them with the kids. Or a mix of both. And so I find that kids are also triggering because now you're getting to see who they love and who they respond to, who they listen to, who they like, who they connect with. Now, of course, kids don't have favorites, especially when they're young, they don't even know. But there definitely is that feeling from an insecure parent that, oh, I do this all for them and they just want to hang out with you

• 32:45Jay Shetty?

  or you get the fun side of the kids and I have to deal with the stress. And I'm not saying none of that's true. I'm just saying that I think raising kids triggers the most amount of trauma. So, and I've seen that. It's, and it's, and it's natural because you're now looking at that kid with the lens of what did I not get at that age and I want to give it to these kids? And even though that's a beautiful intention, It may not be ideal because you may overcompensate, you may struggle. And what I've realized generally is that with any of this, we're all gonna make mistakes. We're all gonna get things wrong. But I think with our kids, we wanna be perfect. And we wanna get it perfect because we love them and we don't wanna mess something up.

• 33:27Jay Shetty?

  And often it's that recognizing that loving them is more important than perfecting everything around them. And I feel that way with my parents, like I feel my mom loved me so deeply and truly that despite all the imperfection of my upbringing, her love is what lives inside of me. And that is something that no one's ever gonna forget. Whereas sometimes you can set up the perfect environment around the kids. But if you don't fuel it with love, if you don't fill it with the oxygen of love, they're not gonna grow up with that or remember that.

• 34:02Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting, I heard, I heard, I'm pretty sure it was Wendy Suzuki on the podcast. She said that, you know, her parents never really said she loved, they loved her, right? And it was very hard to have that conversation. She said she wanted to tell her dad and she wanna have that conversation and start talking about it more. And just say, hey, I know we don't do this as family, but I wanna say I love you.

• 34:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 34:28Lewis Howes?

  And if, and if I get it back, it'd be great. But, you know, you could set your, your kids up with like giving them the best coaches and teachers and training and schooling to want them to be successful. But I think what I took from her was like she just wanted to hear that she was loved.

• 34:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 34:47Lewis Howes?

  Not, yes, set up the perfect environment for me to flourish, that's great. But as kids, like you said, we wanna be heard, seen and accepted. Which essentially allows us to feel loved. And I think when we can learn to do that, which is hard if we never got that ourselves. So it's hard to unlearn it and do the uncomfortable.

• 35:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 35:08Lewis Howes?

  But if we can do that in our intimacy, in our relationships and with our, in our family, it will help us feel a deeper sense of peace and love, which is what we're always looking for.

• 35:18Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, man, well said, well said, that's beautiful. That sounds like a great interview, too.

• 35:23Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious about.

• 35:26Lewis Howes?

  I'm always a guinea pig on this show. I'm always like, you know, revealing stuff and opening up about stuff and sharing this is how I made a mistake and this is what I'm learning.

• 35:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 35:36Lewis Howes?

  As your friend, I'm curious, and you can be as honest as you want to be. What feedback would you give on love for me that, and you don't have to like, you know, build me up or anything, but what feedback, real feedback, honest feedback that you've seen, and I know you talk to me all this time about this, that you see as possible for me to step into that maybe I'm doing but need to do more of, or that I'm struggling with that you see from a perspective you haven't told me yet? What is that feedback you would give me so that I can be vulnerable and work on it in this process?

• 36:08Jay Shetty?

  So I'm gonna build you up because it's true. And I have to.

• 36:11Lewis Howes?

  Totally have to.

• 36:12Jay Shetty?

  I have to because it's, it's true. Like, I don't think I've seen many people do the amount of self-work you've done over the last few years, the amount of energy, time, money you've invested in working on yourself. It's unbelievable. And you're seeing the results because of it, right? Like, that's the most beautiful part, that you've always worked on yourself, so that's not new. But I know that love has been like a real investment and healing for you. And I just don't ever want anyone to think that, oh, because you have a good podcast and because you write amazing books, shout out to The Greatness Mindset, like, you know, like, just, just because you're doing that stuff, that's not why you have love. Like, you don't have a good relationship because you're Lewis Howes. Does that make sense?

• 36:54Jay Shetty?

  Like, I think often externally it could look like, yeah, Lewis is good-looking and he played sport and he's an athlete and he did this and he did that. And that's why, it's like, well, that's not what's made you a good partner or that's not what's made you a healthy partner. It's the work you're doing behind the scenes that you obviously share on the show, but the work that I get to see you do as a friend. So I do wanna say that because I, I think it's important to, to notice and acknowledge that.

• 37:18Lewis Howes?

  Thank you.

• 37:19Jay Shetty?

  But if I had to give any feedback or thoughts, let me think where I wanna go with it.

• 37:22Lewis Howes?

  And also like, you know, knowing, you're taking the relationship to the next steps and what you know being married and what that looks like and what I'm gonna be preparing for in the future and how to make sure what to look out for for myself, that it could be a trouble for me or something.

• 37:37Jay Shetty?

  I do think I start the book with this beautiful conversation between...

• 37:44Jay Shetty?

  A student and the Buddha. And the student asks, what's the difference between I like you and I love you? And the Buddha replies, when you like a flower, you simply pluck it. But when you love a flower, you water it daily. And so my honest advice, and this isn't just for you, it's it's truly advice for all of us, including me, sitting right in front of you, giving all of this advice, is, are you watering your relationship daily? Are you checking the soil? Are you giving it sunlight? Are you aware? I think so many of us get a beautiful tree, a beautiful plant in our lives, and then you think it's just gonna survive.

• 38:25Jay Shetty?

  And so all the work that you've done now, even though it's tiring, exhausting, and transformative, that never stops. And I see that in my life today. I've been with Radhi for ten years. And I would say that we still have to water the relationship, check the soil, check the sunlight. And I don't think that it ever changes. The stuff you're checking changes, but the checking process doesn't change.

• 38:51Lewis Howes?

  So you can't just set it and forget it?

• 38:53Jay Shetty?

  You can't. That's exactly it.

• 38:54Lewis Howes?

  You can't do a lot of work in the first couple of years and then say, I can ride this for twenty.

• 38:58Jay Shetty?

  That's exactly the problem. I think we we think that two years of work results in twenty years of fruit. And it doesn't. It doesn't. Like, if you look at the harvest, if you look at the seasons, it's a yearly thing. It's an annual thing that happens. And so I just, I really, really feel that. And I would often also say that, you know, look out, look, using the garden analogy, like, look out for the weeds and make sure you're constantly planting new, good seeds. I think we also think, we've thought about all the good seeds. We don't need anymore. We don't need to think about anything new. And we keep trying to recreate our first date, or we live in the same way, or...

• 39:38Jay Shetty?

  The way we had it was amazing and we keep celebrating how it is rather than recreating what it needs to be. And so I think that's really important, but that's not just about you. It's it's more of a warning to myself, to you, to to everyone, because I think amazing relationships can go stale really quickly.

• 39:58Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 39:58Jay Shetty?

  Because we become complacent.

• 39:59Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 40:00Jay Shetty?

  And complacency, it's always like, we always hear that phrase, curiosity killed the cat. And I'm like, complacency did. If you're curious with your partner.

• 40:08Lewis Howes?

  You'll keep growing.

• 40:09Jay Shetty?

  You'll keep it growing. And so use curiosity.

• 40:12Lewis Howes?

  I love that. Okay, I've got, I think I have two final questions.

• 40:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 40:16Lewis Howes?

  Before I get to them, I want people to get the book, Eight Rules of Love, how to find it, how to keep it, how to let it go. Make sure you get a copy, get a copy for your friend, your partner, your your family who's struggling in relationships, or people that want to just keep them growing by being more curious. We'll have it all linked up in the show notes on YouTube, on audio. So again, make sure you guys get this, follow Jay's podcast and subscribe there. We do a lot of fun stuff together over there, so make sure to check that out as well. Your first book as well is is amazing, so make sure you guys get Think Like a Monk. His book has sold, I think, what, two million copies now?

• 40:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, two and a half now.

• 40:55Lewis Howes?

  Two and a half million copies. Make sure to get that again, On Purpose, one of the top podcasts in the world. And if you want a great speaker at your event, make sure to hire Jay. He's one of the best speakers out there. So again, get the book, subscribe, do all those things. Two final questions. I've asked you questions about your three truths before, so I'm not going to ask that. I've asked you about your definition of greatness, and people can go back and listen to those episodes if they want to. This is a question, because you have a prompt in here about writing a love letter to yourself. So if you had to give a love letter or a love audio note to your younger self, the part of yourself, the time when you felt the most shame, you don't have to say what was happening,

• 41:40Lewis Howes?

  but the time you felt the most shame, what would that audio note be to younger Jay of that season of life? A love letter to him?

• 41:52Jay Shetty?

  Don't try to fall in love like they do in the movies. Don't try and fall in love like they do in the songs.

• 42:01Jay Shetty?

  Don't try to

• 42:04Jay Shetty?

  fall in love in some big romantic Hollywood idyllic way.

• 42:14Jay Shetty?

  Ask yourself,

• 42:17Jay Shetty?

  do you know who you are? Do you know who they are?

• 42:22Jay Shetty?

  Every time you ask yourself, do they like me? Ask yourself, do I really like them? Every time you ask yourself, do they think I'm attractive? Ask yourself, am I working on myself? Uh, every time you think,

• 42:43Jay Shetty?

  do they want me? Will they take care of me? Ask yourself, how can I better take care of myself? And so, everything you want from someone else, give it to yourself first. That's what I'd say.

• 42:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's a good love letter. It's a good love note.

• 43:00Lewis Howes?

  Okay, final question.

• 43:03Lewis Howes?

  So imagine, this goes back to our Matthew McConaughey scenario.

• 43:08Jay Shetty?

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:08Lewis Howes?

  Imagine your ninety year old self.

• 43:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:13Lewis Howes?

  Giving a love letter or a love note to your current self. What would your ninety year old self say to current Jay to support you for the next season of love? After ten years of being in a relationship and I think seven years of marriage? What would you say for the next ten, twenty, thirty years?

• 43:34Jay Shetty?

  After it's all said and done, the love you have for humanity

• 43:42Jay Shetty?

  and the love you have to serve and to use your purpose in helping other people, that's the only thing that will stand the test of time. And that your life will be measured not by awards or trophies or numbers, but by

• 44:08Jay Shetty?

  How deeply you helped people love themselves. And I think that's a really interesting nuance. That we're often focused on how much we love people. But if you really love someone, you can make them fall in love with themselves. And so I would measure myself not by how much I loved, but by how much I was able to help people love themselves. Because that would be proof that I really love them.

• 44:41Lewis Howes?

  Eight Rules of Love, Jay Shetty. Love you, brother. Appreciate it, man.

• 44:45Jay Shetty?

  Best interview of all.

• 44:47Lewis Howes?

  I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcasts and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels, at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness newsletter

• 45:30Lewis Howes?

  and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com/newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.