187: Am I Falling For The Idea Of Them? W/ Damona Hoffman

In this episode, Sabrina sits down with dating expert Damona Hoffman to unpack how fairy tales, rom-coms, and modern dating apps fuel obsession, fantasy, and anxious attachment. They break down why texting chemistry, dopamine loops, and “potential” keep people stuck in confusing dating dynamics—and how to shift from chasing sparks to choosing emotional safety, clarity, and real connection. If you’re tired of mixed signals, hot-and-cold behavior, situationships, or questioning someone’s attachment style, this conversation reframes dating through grounded psychology and nervous system awareness. You’ll learn how to stop romanticizing unavailable partners, identify emotional unavailability early, and date with intention instead of fantasy—so you can build a healthy, secure relationship rooted in reality, not wishful thinking. Want to have your submission appear on a future show? Send in your stories, questions, or dating profiles to [email protected] Get 'F the Fairy Tale' by Damona! If you’re ready to slow down, trust your instincts, and break your old dating patterns, the Healthy Relationship Foundations Course walks you through it step-by-step HERE! If you’re serious about changing your dating patterns instead of repeating them, the Art of Going Slow course helps you unlearn urgency, regulate your nervous system, and build real connection without rushing, chasing, or abandoning yourself HERE! Get Ad free HERE! Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Get merch for The Sabrina Zohar Show HERE! Don't forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on Instagram and Sabrina on TikTok! Video now available on YOUTUBE! ============================= Chapters 00:00 – Dating Myths & Fairy Tale Fantasy 04:18 – Obsessing Over Potential vs Reality 08:12 – Texting, Dopamine & False Intimacy 13:05 – Good Morning Texts & Anxiety Loops 18:02 – Why Sparks Don’t Equal Compatibility 23:11 – Emotional Unavailability Explained 28:07 – Mixed Signals & Hot-Cold Behavior 33:02 – Attachment Styles vs Real Behavior 38:06 – Emotional Intimacy & Secure Love 42:10 – Dating With Clarity, Not Fantasy Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formerly known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A. Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  Cashmere, outerwear and boots are up to 60% off at Nordstrom Rack. Save on brands like Ugg, Vince and Kohan. Join the naughty club for free to unlock exclusive discounts. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 0:48Sabrina Zohar?

  Disney lied to us. They told us that there's going to be somebody, this prince charming, that comes and swoops you up and is everything you've ever wanted. And they're going to be one true love's kiss. And then you've got the rom coms and you've got all of this social pressure that we have to be into this fucking fantasy in order to get love. And then that's why as adults, we've become so obsessed with the idea of people and really their potential. But at the end of the day, are you looking at what is or what if? Hello, hello, hello. And welcome to another episode of the Sabrina Zohar Show. My name is Sabrina Zohar and I am your host. Hi friends, we're in the trenches. Today I have my friend, Damona Hoffman. She is amazing. She is a dating and relationship coach and she is just an all around amazing woman. And we are talking about the myths and the fairy tale

• 1:31Sabrina Zohar?

  and really how you can be present and grounded when you're dating and not be obsessed with the idea of people and their potential. Guys, as always, if you need anything, please don't forget to rate and review the show. Please leave a comment, share it with your friend. It means the world. If you want ad free or if you want to slow down the speed of the show, you can manually do that on your player or everything is in the show notes. Join a course, work one on one, or just be here. It means the world. All right, babes, without further ado, let's get right on into it, shall we? Hello, Ms. Damona. Welcome to the Sabrina Zohar Show.

• 2:01Speaker 03

  I'm so happy to be here with you.

• 2:03Sabrina Zohar?

  Me too, in person.

• 2:04Speaker 03

  In person!

• 2:05Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay, before we get started, could you please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about you, the book, what you do, and how amazing you are?

• 2:12Speaker 03

  Well, I'm Damona Hoffman, certified dating coach, a relationship strategist, and I have been working with people on how to find love online and off for over 15 years. Started out as a profile writer because I was working, get this, I was working as a casting director in television, and I was online dating at the time. And I found that what I would tell actors about having headshots that would stand out, how to tell their story when they went into a room, I was like, this is basically online dating. So I met my husband online back in the middle ages of online dating,

• 2:51Speaker 03

  and realized that I really had, in my professional experience, I had a knack for teaching people how to present themselves to get what they wanted online. And so that's where I began, but since that time, I started the Dates and Mates podcast, I'm the official love expert of The Drew Barrymore Show and Access Daily, and I wrote, "F the fairy tale, rewrite the dating myths, and live your own love story."

• 3:17Sabrina Zohar?

  I love it. What made you get into all of this? Like, where was the transition for you?

• 3:21Speaker 03

  It was really gradual. I was the profile whisperer for a very long time, for like, everyone in the television industry. I even had a moniker. Like, I didn't cross the two paths until much later, but I realized, we have this incorrect notion that we're supposed to just know how to date. And especially as dating apps became more popular, I realized that there's a real skill set to being able to present yourself online, and then to move through all of the other phases of dating, which like, if you can't text, well, you're not going to get to the date. And then, what are you going to do on the date? And then, what are you going to do after the date to make sure that that person wants to see you again and doesn't ghost you?

• 4:05Speaker 03

  So I realized that there was a real need to support people in this process, because when you think about it, dating is a relatively new invention, right? I know you've talked about this before, but... Online dating is really very new. And we need to have some sort of a framework or best practices around how to navigate through it. It's maddening.

• 4:28Sabrina Zohar?

  Who's fucked out of this, right? Except our parents and you're like, well, it's not always a positive. It's so funny, a couple of years ago, I had an article and they came to the house to take photos and do the whole thing. And the main guy that did it was like, you know, I had to push to get this. And I was like, what do you mean? And then like the camera guy was like, because I don't understand. He's like, I've been married for 15 years. What is a dating coach? What do you mean, you don't know what you're doing? And the guy that was writing it was like, I think this is beneficial. And he was like, but apparently my editor didn't seem to agree. And like, they published the article and then they took it down like a few months later. Because they just didn't understand the importance of a dating and relationship coach. And that was a couple of years ago. And I remember just sitting there being like, I'm not going to let you discredit my entire career because I know that I help people.

• 5:12Sabrina Zohar?

  But if you don't understand that, your therapist doesn't just intrinsically know. Therapists don't know necessarily about dating relationships. They don't give you advice on that. They're helping you to unpack what's coming up for you. There is a time and a place. Please go to therapy, please don't stop. But I also think that there are people like us that have been in the trenches that understand the different mindset. And like, I'm sure if you've heard this before, I've had clients come to me and say, yeah, my therapist told me to text the guy that ghosted me. And I'm like, why did they do that? And she's, well, because I text him four times, he didn't answer and they told me communication's really important. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. You're right, communication's important, but there's a time and a place. And so that's why I'm grateful that we get to help in a different way, whether it be from personal experience or clients or da, da, da.

• 5:54Sabrina Zohar?

  Which leads me into asking you kind of what I wanted to go into before we get into questions. What have you been seeing that's changed over the years?

• 6:01Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh, so much.

• 6:02Sabrina Zohar?

  Besides the obvious of the dating, but like, I even look at human behavior. What have you noticed, whether it be gendered or not?

• 6:10Speaker 03

  Two main things. I think the way that we communicate today is so different. And just as you were saying with the etiquette of like, do you text somebody who ghosted you? The speed of communication because of texting, because of DMs, because people are so accessible online right now in a way that they weren't probably when that therapist was last single. It's really changed the way that we interact. And then because of the anonymity of the screen or the emotional buffer of the screen, people will say things in text that they would never say to you face to face.

• 6:53Speaker 03

  And it's generated a lot of bad behavior in dating. And it's also pushed us into a speed of dating that I think is not really healthy. Where you're having multiple conversations with multiple people and you feel this bond, this sense of closeness. And then even as you are moving offline into the real world, you're like, this isn't what I thought it was. Because it can never be the same thing that it is over text. And people are very different in person than they are behind a screen. So that's one thing, the communication piece. And the other is, actually, I think for the better, this self-awareness piece that I know you talk about a lot as well.

• 7:34Speaker 03

  We are just in a different paradigm of understanding ourselves, advocating for our own emotional and mental health. And there are things that we used to accept, and there are things that I know I accepted when I was single, that are just not okay any longer. And I actually appreciate that people are willing to identify their boundaries more clearly and speak them in dating.

• 8:03Sabrina Zohar?

  It is interesting to see. We are in a generation where there is such an inundation of information, but yet I feel like people don't know anything anymore than they ever did. Right, like, and I don't mean that to be rude, but, you know, how many times you can go on the internet? And that's, I think, the problem is like, okay, if I want to learn about avoidance. Right, if I hear that fucking term one more time. If I want to talk about avoidance and I want to understand why they're doing this, I could find everything to either challenge my thoughts or coddle my thoughts. I can go onto ChatGPT and ChatGPT can tell me I've done nothing wrong and to do all of these things like, and I don't think that people realize that we have all this information, but we're still very much in our own bubble because we get to surround ourselves with the information that feels safe to us instead of necessarily challenging us. So it's like, which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

• 8:44Sabrina Zohar?

  I'm like, it's a great thing we have all this information, but then I start to see people are so disconnected from each other and I'm curious, like, are you noticing that as well with the way that people are connecting? Because I'm seeing it either like the dopamine addiction loops, I, why haven't they text me? Everything is this urgency and immediacy as opposed to how are they in person?

• 9:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, and this is why, from the beginning, when I started out as a dating coach, when nobody knew what a dating coach even was, they were like, you're like the female hitch or something? And I'm like, kind of.

• 9:16Speaker 03

  But I have, I have seen that people are really having trouble with, with the in-person connection being different than as social media has grown, as texting has grown, that it's the dissonance that's created between those two mediums that I find very difficult for a lot of folks to navigate. So from the beginning, I have said, online dating is just dating. It's just a, it, matching with somebody on an app is just a road to meeting in person. And where we get in trouble is when we start to have these fantasy ideas, whether it's through the good morning texts, which we talked about on Dates and Mates,

• 9:56Speaker 03

  or whether it's through just creating an idea of someone in your head from just looking at their profile and feeling like you know them. All of that gets in your way when you actually are with that person face to face, because then they're competing against the idea of who you thought they were.

• 10:18Sabrina Zohar?

  Good morning texts just create a dopamine addiction loop. And when you have the dopamine addiction loop, you can't be surprised that when you're in person with this person, the feeling isn't the same. Because when I have a high because of a message that comes in versus I have tonality, I have intonation, I am interpreting that message how I would respond. How would I handle things? And we end up projecting onto other people. And I find for me, good morning texts, good night texts, and all that shit in between, if you're not in an actual relationship with this person, for them to be checking in on you, you're wasting your goddamn fucking time. Because I don't need somebody that's just checking up on me. But where are they making plans? Where are they calling me? Where are they intentionality? Where are they showing up for me? Besides on my phone? Because that's what I become obsessed with, the idea of them and not the actual of who they are.

• 11:01Speaker 03

  Totally. And the synchronous communication like we are having right now, you are saying a thing, you are reading my body language, you're reading my intonation, I'm reading yours. And there's also an energetic exchange. That is not the same when you are behind a screen. You know, they're on the toilet or whatever.

• 11:21Sabrina Zohar?

  They're doing shit.

• 11:23Speaker 03

  And they can take all the time in the world to find the perfect words. They can use ChatGPT to find the perfect words. They can be uninhibited. They can be uninhibited with what they're saying. But then in person, we're awkward. We can't find the words right away. We can't make eye contact. We're uncomfortable in our bodies. And that really prevents that feeling of connection that you may be fantasized about when you were getting the good morning texts, but doesn't exist in real life. And it can, it can. But this is why I'm like, don't get caught up in the fantasy.

• 12:07Speaker 03

  I have a one-to-one rule. You have to meet between one day and one week. I say, one day and one week from the time you match. Because You don't want a same day date unless unless unless you're you're it's

• 12:23Sabrina Zohar?

  That's your thing, cool, right?

• 12:24Speaker 03

  That's fine. But most of the people who come to me are coming to me for the fairy tale. They want the long term relationship. They want what I have built. They want someone that's going to be a partner. And it's like, you can get a booty call same day and that's fine. But some some intentionality one day to one week after that, you're starting to create a vision of a person that may or may not actually exist in real life.

• 12:51Sabrina Zohar?

  I'll never forget reminding me of a story. I haven't shared this yet. Yes. Uh, because you as you go further into the relationship, the dating stories start to get less and less for me. I'm like, I don't have as many. But I matched with this guy and he was so cute. And I remember, God, talk about making an entire fantasy. And we were texting the minute we matched, we started texting each other. Then, of course, we start, I'm like, he's like, what are you doing right now? I said, I'm reading attached. Of course, we start having the conversation. And we're texting like all the time. And he had a kid, he was visiting the kid, kid didn't live with him. And so he was like, you know, I'm gonna be on and off my phone, but like, I'll be back. He was like, a few days later, he's like, I'll be back after the holidays. It was like the day before New Year's Eve. He's like, let's meet, you know, on like the the first or the second. Fine. And we're texting all the time. And I remember anytime I didn't hear from him, like having full on panic attacks, hyperventilating, and then I'd get the texts, it was like oxygen.

• 13:36Sabrina Zohar?

  And I'm so excited. I'm like, this is it. Like, this is gonna be my person. He's exactly what I want, everything. I show up on the date and I remember just like beaming and being excited and he was flat, just like no expression, very shy, very cute, but like not what I thought, you know, like just a totally different dynamic. And I remember trying to like force the connection on the date and be like sitting next to him and trying to like grab his hand. But like clearly seeing neither of us were really jiving with each other. Like, I think he liked the idea of me. And I was so not into him. We ended up like hanging out another couple of times. And I always was trying to make it something it just wasn't because there was the cognitive dissonance of, but who this person was when we were texting all the time?

• 14:17Sabrina Zohar?

  And I got to create this fantasy. Sure enough, we went on, I think, like four dates. And I get a text from him, you know, I think you're amazing, but like, I'm just not feeling what I want to feel at this time and I don't We should continue it. We ended up connecting recently because he was like, hey, by the way, your content's really helped me. And I was like, you know, could you share a little bit more as to why? And it turns out he's like wild anxiety and has been dating the most avoidant women since. And he was like, you were just really healthy and I didn't know what to do with it. And I wasn't feeling that spark because I'm normally with women that make me earn it and I have to chase them. And he's like, now that I'm in therapy, I'm starting to realize that. And he's like, and I totally fucked up. I was like, no, you did. Right, right. It's too late now, right? We're three, almost four years later. And it's like, good luck, Godspeed. But that was

• 14:59Sabrina Zohar?

  that moment where I realized like, holy shit, this means nothing. Like, all of this that I've built up didn't actually translate into real life. And instead of me being okay and grieving that, I tried to hold on to it. And then I was gutted and devastated for days and weeks after because he rejected me. When I was like, no, baby, he rejected himself. You were just in the way. Because it was, that was that moment where I had to stop and go, this is wasting your fucking time.

• 15:24Speaker 03

  I'm curious if you would have felt differently if you had cut it off sooner. Like, you knew from that first date, it probably wasn't a match. But would you have had that same reaction of like, I'm so disappointed this didn't work, if you had acknowledged that it wasn't the fantasy?

• 15:43Sabrina Zohar?

  Hundred percent. I think had I been in reality, like had I said boundaries early on of like, hey, I don't want to tax, like, let's just meet in person, see if we jive. And if not, that's cool, right? I think if I had handled it completely differently, probably. In that time, he was one of the first people that I, I've talked on the show about this other guy, they were at the same time, where like, I really started to change the way I dated after that. Because when I, even though I was upset, I was really trying to be like, okay, but like, don't contact him. You don't need to reach out. Like, you're allowed to be sad. That's when I started to realize that. Now, of course, I'd be like, yeah, whatever, you know, didn't work out, next. But I think then I was so sold on the fairy tale, the idea that this man was going to enter my life and it was just going to be, that's it. Like, this is it. You've met your person and you're going to run off into the sunset. The fairy tale is a guy that farts a lot and a dog

• 16:27Sabrina Zohar?

  that's super cute. But like, that's the fairy tale, right? Like, I love my partner and I love, but it's not what we seem to think it's going to be because we're holding on to feelings versus actually being present in the moment to what is actually happening.

• 16:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. But what I love about what you just shared is that you took that experience and you

• 16:48Speaker 03

  You learn from it and you metabolized it into something that was really constructive and that was actually going to help you on your dating path, which is really a lot of the work that I do. It's like, things are going to happen in dating that piss you off, that make you feel like crap, that disappoint you. And what do we do with that? How do we turn that into the fairy tale? And a lot of times, people, when they hear the title, F the fairy tale, they think that I'm anti-love, that I'm pessimistic, and that couldn't be further from the truth. I'm very optimistic about love. Drew Barrymore calls it, "Hope with a roadmap," is what she said about that book, which is really, it crystallizes my philosophy.

• 17:31Speaker 03

  But it's the subtitle, it's F the fairy tale, rewrite the dating myths and live your own story. It's don't believe the stories that were handed down to you, the fairy tales, the rom-coms, and everything that we are on a constant, constant stream of receiving from the outside, and realize that you have the power to write your own fairy tale. You have the power to write your own story. And yes, it may end up with your Prince Charming farting a lot.

• 17:59Sabrina Zohar?

  And being a little bit more Shrek-y, but it's okay.

• 18:01Speaker 03

  That's okay.

• 18:02Sabrina Zohar?

  For me, I'm like, okay, yeah, the fairy tales, like, whatever happened to like Prince Eric? Like, was he an alcoholic? Right? Like, nobody talked about what happened after Cinderella left the ball. It's like, we don't, we just left, and they lived happily ever after. And you're like, what does that mean? It gives too much for up, and you know why, truthfully? When I first met Ryan, he loves rom-coms. I can't watch them. And I had to sit with it, and he was like, why do you hate them so much? And I said, because they're not real and they gave me a false hope. And I really struggled, like, how to lose a guy in 10 days, right? I was her, right? The hot fucking mess. And it's like, no, I didn't get Matthew McConaughey at the end. I got ghosted, right? Or like, guy, I got a UTI instead. Like, did not get that this man loves me and went through traffic to stop me from leaving. And it's okay. Like, of course, I want everybody, enjoy the fucking movies you like. But for me, because I understand

• 18:47Sabrina Zohar?

  what you mean, when I'm more realistic, I struggle with these fantasies and this idea that something's going to be not, because I don't want other people to feel disappointed when you get there. And Disneyland is like a little Burger King.

• 18:58Speaker 03

  I do love Disneyland. I am a Disney file. However, however, my husband does not like Disneyland.

• 19:04Sabrina Zohar?

  There you go.

• 19:05Speaker 03

  But that's why I had children. So now I can say.

• 19:07Sabrina Zohar?

  You can go to Disneyland.

• 19:07Speaker 03

  Right. But it is the attachment to the story going a particular way. And this is why I hear all the time from my dates and mates listeners, like, how do you know? Like, I've been dating someone. They are great on paper, but I don't know. And the rom coms give us this idea that there is a moment where he's chasing you through traffic, or, you know, where the fairy godmother anoints us and we're like, oh, we know. And there's no, there's no sparkles. There's no, there's no confetti. But when you have done all of the work that you talk about all the time on the

• 19:47Speaker 03

  show, when you do the work and when you are really clear on who you are, what you have to offer in a relationship, because it is a two way street, it is reciprocal, and then what you want, it's so much easier to tell than just like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a profile, I'm gonna go online, just see what's up. I'm just gonna slide into this person's DM and like, I don't know, throw a caution to the wind. When you don't date with intention and you're just like, I'll see what's out there.

• 20:17Sabrina Zohar?

  Go with the flow.

• 20:18Speaker 03

  Go with the flow. Or you say, hey, do you know anybody to set me up with? You're gonna get anybody?

• 20:24Sabrina Zohar?

  Well, that's, I wish we had a profile this week to read. Sometimes me and Ryan will do them. And we're like, first of all, people are terrible at self identification. Like, I want all of these things. And they list it out of like, I want someone emotionally intelligent, securely attached. When I see that, I instantly look and go, they don't know what these words mean. You are using the buzzwords of like, I want someone who's emotionally intelligent and aware. And it's like, okay, do you think the average person, you think someone's gonna go, oh, yeah, that's not me. No, no, no, I'm an idiot. I don't know. Most people are like, I, that's me. I'm all of these things. I'm secure. And it's more just of like, that's not actually what we're looking for. What we're looking for is someone that's like growth minded. What we're looking for is that somebody that can have tough conversations and regulate their emotional and their nervous system. And so for me, I actually, that was a missed opportunity, but next time we'll have you on, we'll do a profile audit. Because sometimes we get someone and I'm like, okay, it's not a surprise that you're not getting

• 21:09Sabrina Zohar?

  the results you want because I know nothing about you. I learned nothing about you. It's 17 photos with your head to the side, or glasses, or with friends. And I'm like, I don't get to know who you are? And why would I make a choice to spend my time with you if I have nothing about you?

• 21:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I say, pick a side of the street. Because they'll say, I'm just as comfortable in a pair of sweats as I am in a pair of high heels. Okay, like, I get it. We all contain multitudes. Just for the purposes of your profile, you are marketing yourself. Pick a side of the street. Make a choice. And we're so afraid of the rejection. We're afraid, well, if I say this wrong thing, then it's going to turn somebody off. And we actually want to turn off the wrong people. We don't want to get in a text exchange. We don't want to get five dates in and realize that it's not a match. We want to be more efficient. That's really what I teach people to do. Is how to be more efficient in dating. And that all starts with clarity.

• 22:08Speaker 03

  But, you know, so many times, people will either tell me, I'll say, what are you looking for? And they'll tell me, I don't, I'll know it when I see it. And I'm like, girl, have you seen it yet? Because I don't know. Or they'll have a list, like you said, a mile long. And it's like, everything here cancels, cancels each other out. So it's really worth doing a deep, deep dive. And figuring out at the core, how you want to feel.

• 22:33Sabrina Zohar?

  Thank you.

• 22:33Speaker 03

  In the relationship, right?

• 22:35Sabrina Zohar?

  Our brains must be on the same. I was thinking.

• 22:36Speaker 03

  Always.

• 22:37Sabrina Zohar?

  Always.

• 22:37Speaker 03

  Well, I said when you were on Dates and Mates, I was like, so many times, I'll be listening to you. And I'll almost mouth the words along. And I'm like, are we, we're mind melded.

• 22:45Sabrina Zohar?

  We're the same.

• 22:46Speaker 03

  But, you know, we've seen a lot of these stories and.

• 22:48Sabrina Zohar?

  It's not my first rodeo, it's not yours.

• 22:49Speaker 03

  It's not yours either.

• 22:51Sabrina Zohar?

  All right, shall we answer some questions?

• 22:52Speaker 03

  Oh, please, yes.

• 22:53Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay, all right. Girl, you don't know how, Ryan has titled them. He chooses all the questions. I don't, so it's a lot more fun. Girl, you don't need to know the attachment style of the fuck boy, is the title of this email. Hello, lovely Sabrina and Damona.

• 23:07Sabrina Zohar?

  I recently came across your page and I really love how clearly you explain emotional patterns in dating. I'm reaching out because I truly need some perspective and guidance about a situation that left me confused and emotionally drained. So here's what happened. A few months ago, I met this guy named, I'm gonna change the names in case this is his real name, Xavier. I don't know where that came from, but Xavier.

• 23:23Speaker 00

  Ooh, that's very exotic. Exotic Xavier.

• 23:25Sabrina Zohar?

  He's half-German, so that's not Xavier. He's half-German, half-Austrian, and works as a bartender in a place I used to go with my friends. We know each other by sight, but we officially met later on an app. From the very first message, he said he'd really love to get to know me better. I was genuinely excited. He seemed charming, intelligent, and emotionally grounded. I have questions. This is my, my ADHD brain always is like, "Wait a minute, I have questions." Like, what made you think that?

• 23:48Speaker 00

  Based on what?

• 23:48Sabrina Zohar?

  Thank you. Okay, we went on a date and everything went incredibly well. The chemistry, the conversation, the way we connected, things got a bit intimate that night, and although I don't, didn't plan for that to happen, it did. Yeah, it's okay, girl, you have needs. The next day, he ghosted me. I felt confused and hurt, but after a few days, I deleted the app and found him on Instagram. I followed him, he followed me back, and we started texting again. "I have questions." At some point, he told me he's not looking for anything serious at that moment, and that he would love to see me again. That's where the confusion started. That's where her confusion started. I say this with love, my baby, but ours started a little bit earlier. Since then, he's been inconsistent, sometimes flirty, sometimes distant, often vague about meeting up. For example, he mentioned meeting on Sunday, but didn't specify what or where. When I asked for clarity, he replied with emojis or jokes, not a clear answer. Yeah, deflection. "I've tried to stay cool and not chase,

• 24:32Sabrina Zohar?

  but his behavior leaves me completely unsure. Does he actually like me, but is emotionally avoidant? Or is he just playing games and using me as an option? Part of me feels like he lost respect for me after we slept together too soon, basically on our first date." Mm-mm. I'm tired of that narrative. I fucked Ryan on the first date and he's in the other room. "I can't tell whether this hot and cold dynamic means disinterest or fear of intimacy. I'm aware that I may have developed a stronger emotional bond than I intended. What hurts the most is not rejection itself, but the feeling I wasn't chosen, that I wasn't seen or valued the way I'd hoped I'd be. I'd really appreciate your insight. How can I emotionally detach from someone who gives mixed signals? How do I rebuild my sense of worth and stop replaying the what-ifs? And from your professional perspective, what type of attachment or behavior pattern might he be showing? Thank you for reading the long message. I truly appreciate your time. Would be grateful for your reflection. Warmly, M." I'm not gonna give names because I wanna respect everyone's privacy. Alright, what do you think? Go.

• 25:17Speaker 03

  I have so much compassion for M because I, she, she really nailed it. It's about that feeling of rejection.

• 25:25Sabrina Zohar?

  Hundred percent.

• 25:25Speaker 03

  It is not about him. It is not, none of this is about him. This is all about how you want to feel and you didn't get that feeling met because you were chasing, what? The fairy tale. You know, I just said this on dates and mates recently. People will tell you who they are early on, like Maya Angelou said. People will tell you who they are the fir-, believe them the first time. Don't make them prove it to you again and again. She's making him prove it to her again and again. He said, I'm not looking for anything serious. And then he has been inconsistent with texting and then he's been texting just emojis like, he is a grown ass man playing around. He's literally flashing red lights at you saying, this is who I am. This is what I want.

• 26:09Speaker 03

  And you're like, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, I cannot hear that.

• 26:12Sabrina Zohar?

  If I understand their attachment style, I can understand them better.

• 26:15Speaker 03

  No, his attachment style is he's not interested in a relationship. You are, thank you, next, gotta move on.

• 26:22Sabrina Zohar?

  The confusion started for me immediately because this is the fantasy. She says it off the beginning, I was excited, he seemed charming, intelligent, emotionally grounded. Like, how do you know that from messages on Bumble? Right? How do you know that from messages? Besides, like, we talked about that you could chat GPT it, you could have friends write it for you. I've had friends ask me, I had a client once who asked me to help him with his profile. I didn't know he had copied and pasted everything. Then he would show me and go, I don't understand. Why am I not getting the dates? And you'd show me the messages and I was like, that's why, because you took my words? And then your messages, hey, you look good. How, and I was like, this is why, because there's a complete incongruence. One girl had even called him out and she was like, the profile you wrote isn't the way you're talking to me. So this is the first thing. Then it's like, we went on a date and everything went incredible.

• 27:06Sabrina Zohar?

  Like, okay, so already it's like, oh, it's so perfect, it's so perfect. We, we hooked up. Then it's the next day, he ghosted me. It's like, how did you know the next day already that he ghosted you? It's like, you just texted him, he just didn't answer, right? Like, how did we have that determination so quickly? So then you go on Instagram, you follow him. This person just showed you that they don't respect your time after fucking you. So you follow them on Instagram and then you just go back into texting as if nothing ever happened? Self abandonment. It's just self abandoning. I want to be chosen, please, please pick me. Look, if I just don't bring anything up, you'll choose me. This is why, duh, no shit at the end, it didn't work out. That's why, I'll be honest, all the questions I ask, how can I emotionally detach from someone who gave mixed signals? What do you think?

• 27:44Speaker 03

  It's all internal. You've got to realize what it looks like in, not the fairy tale, but in your, your real relationship goals. How do you want to feel? Do you want to feel like this? Do you want to feel abandoned? Do you want to feel, uh, like you're chasing? Cause I mean, going on Instagram and finding him, you said you don't want to chase, you're literally chasing. And you just have to remind yourself that, that you can find that and you deserve that. Because I, I, I think sometimes when, in the absence of the fairy tale, we start to tell ourselves the nightmare. We start to tell ourselves the horror story. I'm always going to be alone. No one is ever going to love me. This is just how it is.

• 28:27Speaker 03

  This is just how dating is and everybody out there is like that. Do not tell yourself that story. It is absolutely not true. You are living proof of that. I am living proof of that. I have thousands of clients who are in successful, happy relationships, but we can't, if, if you, if you let the dark come in and you start telling yourself, this is just how it's supposed to be, or how it's going to be for you, then it becomes crushing.

• 28:53Sabrina Zohar?

  You gotta look at what is, right? You're so, she's focused on what if, how do I rebuild my sense of self and stop replaying the what ifs? Well, first we have to understand, like, where did you learn that this is love? Right? Like, we have to get really curious, again, not villainizing our parents, this isn't about, my parents are pieces of shit and I fucking hate them. It's like, I mean, you might. But what this is about is saying, yeah, growing up, this is how I've learned what love is. Growing up, I used to chase, I used to do this, or this is what I experienced, this is what I saw, this is what I was taught. Then we can start to go, okay, I'm focused on what if, but I'm not actually looking at what is. Because if I were looking at what is, that's why when I hear confused, it's like, no, no, no, you're not confused. You're just refusing to bridge the gap between the cognitive dissonance, between what you think that they're going to be and who they actually are. You're not confused, you're just not willing to admit reality. And that was the hardest thing for me, because you know why?

• 29:37Sabrina Zohar?

  If I admitted that the person was limited, then admitting that they were limited means that I have to admit that I was allowing it. By me admitting I am allowing it, then I have to access, what are my choices? And then that meant I had to make one. And that was terrifying, because if I'm the victim and I have none, it's so much easier to make my woe is me story around me. Because when I finally saw it, I had to make a determination of what I was gonna do with it, because then that's a conscious choice at that point.

• 29:59Speaker 03

  It's not that he's rejecting her.

• 30:01Sabrina Zohar?

  No.

• 30:01Speaker 03

  It's rejecting what she has to offer, it's rejecting what she wants. So if she can also create a little bit more distance between her and what he's actually pushing away. Because it's not personal, in most cases.

• 30:16Sabrina Zohar?

  And the attachment style, that doesn't matter. Like, we have got to stop fucking diagnosing people and their attachment styles, because that's self-abandonment. If I can focus on them, I can avoid the pain. If I don't have to deal with the pain and I can just intellectualize why they did it, then I don't have to grieve the ending of it. But you still have to. The behavior he's showing, this feels like an emotionally unavailable fuckboy. This feels like a guy who doesn't take accountability, who, but here's the reality, what behavior are you showing? Right? How are we showing up? Are we allowing it? Are we self-abandoning? Are we people-pleasing? That's okay, you're human, but it's less about him and more about what is this bringing up within me that I have control over? Because you know what you don't have control over? Any of this nonsense.

• 30:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, and she will be empowered by making a different choice the next time, as we were talking earlier. Taking that experience and using it for, for self-study and letting it inform your next choice is the key to unlocking, to not feeling that way and to unlocking a different relationship destiny for you.

• 31:15Sabrina Zohar?

  And like you said, really beautifully, he's not rejecting you, he's rejecting a relationship in the way that you might want one. And what, like, we have to also remember, I get written in every day, but I don't get it. Like, what, so what? They don't want a relationship, like, but I'm here, why wouldn't they want one with me? It's like, because a relationship isn't just that you sit on the couch and watch movies all the time together. A relationship isn't that you're just texting each other memes. A relationship is really hard conversations, it's vulnerability, it's transparency, it's saying things you might hurt your feelings, but I have to say it. It's showing up, it's doing the work, it's being triggered, like, there's a lot of emotional bandwidth that comes with a healthy and secure relationship that I think people underestimate, which is why you're not in one. Because if you were really ready for that, you will show up as that and you'll stop accepting the people that are showing up like this, because they're wasting your fucking time.

• 31:59Speaker 03

  It won't even be a decision. It will just, no.

• 32:02Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah.

• 32:02Speaker 03

  Thank you, next.

• 32:03Sabrina Zohar?

  Thank you, next. Okay, shall we? The titles are making me laugh. Two peeps with no fully-developed frontal lobe is the next.

• 32:11Speaker 03

  Oh geez, Ryan.

• 32:13Sabrina Zohar?

  Love you, Ryan. He's probably sitting there being like, "She wasn't supposed to read those." All right, and I'm gonna change everyone's names because I'm not meaning to be rude. And we actually had somebody write in saying, "Don't make money off my story." And I was like, "Oh, you're the person they wrote in about." And I was like, "Aww, you salty bitch, don't act like shit and then wonder why you get called out." And I was like, "Yeah, too late." Okay, "Hi Sabrina, I've been a listener for a year now and I appreciate the guidance and clarity you bring to our lives. I'm writing to you about my current situation. I'm 20 and the man I'm dating is 26. We've been exclusive for three months after connecting on social media and we both established on the first date that we're looking for a serious relationship. Everything was going really wonderfully and we typically see each other once or twice a week. However, about a month ago, we had a conversation about our feelings. He mentioned that he really enjoys the company and that things are progressing well, but he is still unsure if I'm the one.

• 32:57Sabrina Zohar?

  When I asked him to clarify, he explained that he definitely wants to continue dating me and getting to know me. His hesitation comes from not yet feeling the overwhelmingly, totally obsessed feeling that he associates with the one." I know. And honestly, too, side note, this like, "I want someone obsessed with me" thing. I'm like, "Do you know how unhealthy that is? Like, I don't want anyone obsessed with me. I want someone to really love me and not be able to live without me in their life because I'm amazing. I don't want you to be obsessed with me."

• 33:21Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 33:22Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay, just glad we took a side note. Okay, "I acknowledge his feelings, but I also made my position clear. I'm willing to continue seeing him for a bit longer, but my ultimate goal is a committed relationship. I'm not prepared to keep investing my time and energy into this connection if he's not ready to officially label our relationship soon." All right, Ryan, I have to say, I think you're a little hard on him. I see a developed lobe here, but let me finish the rest of the email. "Currently, nothing as much has changed. He still hasn't taken a step forward or discussed getting into a really relationship, although he still makes future plans, like planning a Christmas trip with me. However, what really concerns me is the lack of emotional intimacy. He's open about his daily life, but he shares very little of his personal world, like his family, past, or friends. I don't think he's hiding anything, but I want to feel like he's comfortable sharing the more intimate part of his life with me. I know I need to have the conversation again, but I'm afraid I might just be overthinking a connection that needs time to grow. Thank you for reading this." Another M.

• 34:05Speaker 03

  I think M knows the conversation that he needs to have. But again, it's the attachment to the fairy tale. And by the way, I think there's an idea that the fairy tale is only for women, that only women can be attached to it. No. The fairy tale knows no gender because we've all been steeped in these same stories and even just from our parents' relationships, our grandparents' relationships.

• 34:29Speaker 03

  There's a mold that we are actively in the process of needing to break. And he knows the questions. The question is not about the future of the relationship. The question is about the emotional intimacy and the need that's not getting met in the relationship. So all that stuff that he shared with us, he needs to actually share with his partner. And don't worry about the long-term outcome. No one can predict the future. I mean, some people can predict the future. The Simpsons. True, right. I dabble in the psychic unknown. But you don't know where you're at right now in the timeline and you're playing forward to the ending.

• 35:10Speaker 03

  But your need for emotional intimacy needs to be addressed. And I'm not so sure that he's not, that his partner is not hiding something. Because if there's like a whole area of your life that you don't want to talk about or just doesn't come up, there may be something really tender in that. And even the trust in sharing that. Like I talk enough, the fairy tale about the pillars of long-term compatibility. And the last one to be built is trust and mutual respect. And that one takes time. But when he does open up to you, Em, and when that is unlocked,

• 35:51Speaker 03

  that is so much deeper than any declaration of like, I feel, I'm obsessed with you. I'm madly in love with you. We're going to be together forever. That's just words.

• 36:03Sabrina Zohar?

  What I really got was, exactly what you're saying. The emotional unavailability is palpable here because he's unsure I'm the one. He wants to be totally obsessed and all that. It's like, so to me, that person's not rooted in reality. I find him to have the fantasy, to have the, almost like he's not really rooted in the where we are now because he's expecting this to be a feeling. And what happens? Feelings fade. And then you're left with a human. Because when all that's done, you got a person across from you that shits, eats, breathes, does everything like you do, but maybe in a different way. So that was the first thing I got. The second thing I got was what you picked up on. That he has the lack of emotional intimacy. It's like, so then let me ask you, what makes you want this person so bad? If you don't really know anything about them, they're not really letting you into their life.

• 36:44Sabrina Zohar?

  And for me, like when I met Ryan, he asked me to be his girlfriend like two times and I said no. But I didn't just leave it there. I wasn't just like, nope. I was very clear. I said, my answer is no, but can I explain why? I don't feel like you're as vulnerable with me. I was like, I share a lot of things with you. I really need to see more of that depth. I really need to see that consistency. I need to be able to build trust with you. Like I gave very clear rubrics of what I needed so that he could go, got it. And he was able to then. He was like, so I need to show more vulnerability. You're right. I need to work on that. He started to open up more. Because then what I saw was, okay, now I feel more comfortable. I'm able to tell him something. He listens to me. We talk about it. Now we're doing it. We move on from it. And I think that's the missing point here. It's not that, if this guy had said,

• 37:25Sabrina Zohar?

  "Hey, I think you're really great. We've only been together three months. I'm not sure that this is like, I'm in for the long run because none of us really know after three months if you are." But what I do know is I really like you and I really want to keep getting to know you. So why don't we at least just give this, like the old college try? My issue is the, he, the lack of emotional intimacy because then I go, okay, well then what makes you think that this is going to be a healthy and secure relationship if you don't know anything about his life?

• 37:48Speaker 03

  Right. It goes back to what the prior Em was saying of wanting to be chosen. Like, and, and actually I can relate. When I met my husband, he, he said something similar to me. And it took us 10 months to say, "I love you."

• 38:02Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah.

• 38:02Speaker 03

  And it was, and I was the one that, I kinda said it first. I sort of tricked him.

• 38:06Sabrina Zohar?

  I said it first.

• 38:07Speaker 03

  I put it, I put it in a note. I put it in a letter, in a card. And then he was like, "I love you too." And I was like, so you did say it first, kind of.

• 38:17Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah, technically.

• 38:18Speaker 03

  Technically. But he said to me, like, "I don't feel the same thing I felt in prior relationships." It wasn't like whiz bang and I'm like obsessed with you. And that stuck with me for a long time, that it was a much slower build than either of us had been used to. But like, I'm sitting here, 18 years of marriage later.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  And I am still deeply curious about my husband. There are still things that I learn and discover. And every day, I feel more connected to him. And that is the kind of thing, if you're really looking for happily ever after in a long-term relationship, don't go for the spark, don't go for the whiz-bang right out of the gate. Look for that curiosity. And look for that curiosity to be reciprocated.

• 39:12Sabrina Zohar?

  The spark got me into therapy. The spark kept me into therapy. Because it was, that's the cognitive dissonance again of like, no, no, but I'm following these feelings. And it's like, hmm, what, feelings don't always lead me to where I need to go. Because they have an idea of somebody and then I'm not really seeing them for who they are. Because I'm so caught up in what I'm feeling that I, no, no, no, none of that exists. And so I think for this, like, that would be my thing to M is for him to get curious about like, what makes you want to be in a relationship with somebody that you don't really feel like you know? And that you're constantly waiting to see if they open up? Because then that does feel like we're getting into a prove mentality of like, see, I am safe. And you can open up to me and like, please, share. Which of course, like, everybody runs differently. But that would be the conversation. And 100%, he does need to have it.

• 39:56Sabrina Zohar?

  But I would say, I'm afraid I might just be overthinking connection that needs time to grow. No, I think you're just making excuses at this point. Because I think your gut knows this isn't how you want it to be. And like you said, this isn't necessarily the relationship you want. You can take space, like, it's okay that, and you're 20, you got plenty of time.

• 40:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, I forgot that part also.

• 40:14Sabrina Zohar?

  Lots of time.

• 40:15Speaker 03

  But I do feel like sometimes there's like a time served, time invested mentality. Where it's like, well, we're already three months in. I don't want to start back at the starting line with somebody else.

• 40:27Sabrina Zohar?

  Sunk cost bias.

• 40:28Speaker 03

  Right, sunk cost, exactly. So I feel like there's, there's also this fear from M that if, if I really say what I need, if I really go deep with this person, then there may be a rejection on the other side. But unless you are willing to walk through that, you're always going to be in this state of guessing. What does this mean? They're saying this thing, but then they're continuing to invest in the relationship? And people progress on different timelines. So maybe he, maybe he needs six more months to feel.

• 41:03Speaker 03

  Feel like this, like you're his person. Or maybe you have that conversation about emotional intimacy. And he's like, can't go there with you.

• 41:12Sabrina Zohar?

  Yep, toodles.

• 41:12Speaker 03

  Bye. And then you have clarity. And clarity is worth so much more than happily ever after.

• 41:19Sabrina Zohar?

  I see it as if you've spent three months and you're saying, oh, I don't want to, like, I've already spent this long. It's like, but do you want to waste another three to six months? Do you want to waste another three to six years? Do you want to continue to spend your time? I'd rather learn and move on than look back and go, man, I wish I had listened. Or I wish I'd actually been there with myself instead of overlooking, I'm just scared. It's like, ah, but we do hard things all the time.

• 41:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, and getting clarity is so much more empowering. Like, I, I had, before I met my husband, I had this on-again, off-again, three-year limbo relationship. And I, I was working with a coach at the time, and she gave me the confidence to really ask for what I needed. And I sat down with him and I was like, here, this is where we've been. This is what I need this to be, to keep in this dynamic. And he just flat out was like, can't do it. Sorry, like, that's just not where I'm at and I can't do it. And I thought I would feel devastated. I thought that I would feel raw. And instead, I just felt like, you know what? I'm a badass. I did a really hard thing. I said the thing. And you know what?

• 42:25Speaker 03

  This doesn't feel like a rejection to me. This feels like I now have clarity. I now have the power to be able to chart my path forward. And I ended up meeting my husband like three months after that.

• 42:35Sabrina Zohar?

  Same with Ryan. I broke it off with the guy that was not there for me. And I was like, not next. And I met him like three days later. And it was just, you know, of course, it's not everybody's trajectory. But when you stop trying so hard to open a door that's not opening, you then finally look at see all the windows and doors that are opening around you. Because to me, this would be a waste of your time as opposed to you've already wasted your time. I think that you waste your time if you don't learn from it. If you don't implement something from it. If you don't at least try to say, well, can I, how can I progress moving forward? And if we're just going to keep repeating the same stuff, it's like, that's trauma. Don't get me wrong. But now we have to say, well, what are my choices? Can't change them, but we can change what you did. What was the difference between if you had gone to pieces and you being able to move on? Was how you perceived the situation? Because you didn't internalize it.

• 43:19Sabrina Zohar?

  You didn't say, oh, there's something wrong with me. Am I not good enough? He didn't want me. That person rejected a relationship in the way that you wanted it. They did not reject you, and we have got to be OK with that.

• 43:29Speaker 03

  Ah, Demona, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me.

• 43:32Sabrina Zohar?

  Where can people find you? We'll link the book, of course, in the show notes, but tell us where people could find you.

• 43:36Speaker 03

  I'm on the socials, at Demona Hoffman. And yeah, you can get F the Fairy Tale wherever you get your books and listen to Dates and Nights, wherever you're listening to the Sabrina Zohar Show right now.

• 43:47Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah, and you can hear me on your show, and you'll now get to meet Demona on ours. Guys, thank you so much. Don't forget, rate and review the show, leave a comment, let us know what you thought. And I'm so excited, and I'll see you guys next week.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 44:35Speaker 04

  Coca-Cola. For the big. For the small. The short. And the tall. Peacemakers. Risk-takers. For the optimists. Pessimists. For long-distance love. For introverts. And extroverts. The thinkers. And the doers. For old friends. And new. Coca-Cola. For everyone. Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you.