Ivan Toney: I’m Finally Ready To Speak! The Truth About His Football Ban And His Future Team!

He has previously said that he would “speak soon with no filter”, for Ivan Toney that time is now. In this new episode Steven sits down with footballer Ivan Toney. Ivan started his football career in 2012 playing for Northampton Town at 16 years old, and 3 years later moved into the Premier League with Newcastle United. After 4 appearances with Newcastle United, he spent the next few years on loan to various clubs. However, in 2018 Ivan began to build his reputation as a top striker when he joined Peterborough United, scoring 49 goals in 94 appearances. In 2020, Ivan signed with Brentford, helping them win promotion to the Premier League in his first season. In November 2022, the FA charged Ivan with 232 counts of breaching betting rules between 2017 and 2021, he was fined £50,000 and banned from playing professional football until 17 January 2024. In this conversation Ivan and Steven discuss topics, such as: Finding football at a young age The brutal playing style of the lower leagues His father’s belief that he would be a top footballer The advice Ivan would give to his younger self When he began gambling The impact that rejection by teams had on him His journey in football being a constant climb How moving to the Premier League changed his mindset Mixing with the wrong crowd when in the Premier League Not feeling as if he was given the chance to prove himself early in his career Taking chances and becoming a top goal scorer Becoming a father at a young age and its impact on him Advice that he would give to his children if they wanted to become footballers Why Brentford is so special and it’s superpower as a team The mentality that management instils at Brentford The importance of having self belief His gambling addiction How he believes that FA made an example out of him Why he was not match fixing His lowest point during his playing ban Being denied entry to a restaurant because of the allegations against him Seeing this chapter of his life as a learning moment How young footballers not being given advice on how to spend their money wisely The racist abuse he has received Why he stopped taking the knee before matches How he plans to be scoring goals in January 2024 Follow Ivan: Instagram: https://bit.ly/47wdaMe Twitter: https://bit.ly/3QM9a4p Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Steven Bartlett?

  In May 26th, you did a famous tweet, "I'll speak soon with no filter." You ready to speak?

• 0:07Speaker 01

  100%.

• 0:10Speaker 02

  Ivan Toney handed an eight-month ban-

• 0:12Steven Bartlett?

  Seismic news for the Premier League.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Football is brutal. Like 15, being rejected at Leicester. 18, I got to Wolves. Got a squad number, took the pictures. Out of nowhere, the club said, "We're not looking to sign you no more." You have scoliosis in your back.

• 0:27Steven Bartlett?

  It hasn't affected your game?

• 0:30Speaker 01

  I don't feel like it has. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. I'm built different.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  Ivan Toney has won his first England call-up.

• 0:37Steven Bartlett?

  You missed out on the final World Cup squad. Do you know why?

• 0:40Speaker 01

  Allegations. Somebody's out to get me, to stop me from playing for England.

• 0:45Speaker 02

  Ivan Toney has been suspended for eight months with breaching betting rules.

• 0:49Steven Bartlett?

  I read the whole FA report. You acknowledged that you lied in that meeting with the FA.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  I didn't lie, I just couldn't really remember.

• 0:54Steven Bartlett?

  You admit to 232 breaches.

• 0:55Speaker 01

  I did do, but I took responsibility so the whole process could get cleared up.

• 0:59Steven Bartlett?

  But the bit that I just struggle with is that using someone else to do the bets. You'd said to your mate, "I can't have that one in my name." Bets for your team to lose.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  It's a bigger story.

• 1:09Steven Bartlett?

  What impact was it having on your life?

• 1:11Speaker 01

  With me, I never show nothing, I never throw emotions. There's been times I've just, I'm in a room on my own, just looking into thin air and just...

• 1:19Speaker 01

  It hurts. When I'm back, I do the talking on my feet.

• 1:22Steven Bartlett?

  You're going to get back to football. Clubs are going to come knocking.

• 1:24Speaker 01

  The next club I'll go to, if I was to move, it would be...

• 1:38Steven Bartlett?

  I always believe that to understand a person, you have to understand their earliest years. I kind of see our earliest years as the, like, oven that we're formed in. So if you take me back to your earliest years, what do I need to know about you to understand the man you are today? What were the characteristics of that environment that shaped you?

• 1:57Speaker 01

  Just out the front of where I live, it's like, on the front is a park. And like, the older guys would just be out the front, playing. And there's me at like 7, 8, trying to get involved. And these guys are like 15, 16. And they were playing rough. No matter if you're- Eight, nine, ten, trying to play with us, play with them, they're gonna be rough. So that kind of helped me into today's game, how I am now, progress a lot quicker. And like even when I was like sixteen, breaking through at Northampton, I kind of had that bashing around at a young age by the older guys. So being sixteen, getting bashed around by men, let's say, I was kind of like used to it.

• 2:39Steven Bartlett?

  What about hard work? What was your, were you a hardworking man at that age?

• 2:43Speaker 01

  In terms of running, I, I never liked running. I was, I was always the lazy one at the back of the, at the back of the group. Cause I knew when it's time to get on the pitch, I would score goals.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  But like, we all know, hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. So it's kind of like, if you, if you've got the talent and you can work on the hard work and put them both together, then you give yourself the best chance of becoming a top athlete.

• 3:10Steven Bartlett?

  And you, and you put the work in to improve that part of your game and attitude?

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I had to, because I was, but when I was training, like when I was at Leicester, I got told I wasn't getting a scholarship there. So then I went to, I didn't really wanna play football as much, because being rejected at Leicester, it's kind of like, oh. Okay, let me just chill for now. But then like my parents were just like, go to, go to Northampton. Cause there was a game that we played Northampton when I was at Leicester. And then I think Northampton said, if anybody gets released from them, let us know. I think Leicester must have put me in touch with Northampton and I was kind of like, I'm in an hour and about going. But then I ended up going and it was kind of like, everybody's playing for a scholarship.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  And then it was like on the last day, everybody already knows they're getting a scholarship. And I was the only one that wasn't told. So everybody's in the dressing room talking, ah, we've got scholarship, scholarship. And I'm there, still on trial, thinking, when am I getting told? And it wasn't until the next morning, on the meeting, like the first meeting of all the scholarship players, joined up, I got a phone call and said, he's got a scholarship, we'd like him to come down. And I think that point was kind of like, okay, I've got a scholarship, this is my chance now.

• 4:33Steven Bartlett?

  But there was a moment there where you were, because of the rejection from Leicester, you were considering. Doing something else with your life.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel like nobody likes rejection, like being rejected is not the best feeling. And it being like, basically, you're not good enough to be playing football. I how I saw it, you're not good enough to be playing football. Even though it was just, I'm not good enough for Leicester. I might be good enough somewhere else, somebody else might value what my qualities a lot more than Leicester did.

• 5:01Steven Bartlett?

  Hard to see that in the moment though, isn't it?

• 5:03Speaker 01

  It's a lot. Yeah, it's very hard. It's very hard and.

• 5:05Steven Bartlett?

  At what, how old, sixteen?

• 5:07Speaker 01

  It was like fifteen.

• 5:08Steven Bartlett?

  Fifteen?

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's kind of like.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  You don't want it, you don't really want that rejection again. It's like a kind of fear of getting that again. Then when I did, like I said, when I got the scholarship, I just knew it wasn't happening again.

• 5:25Steven Bartlett?

  Because your journey through football just generally has been a real climb. You know, it's been a real, real climb like, and also I reflect on the fact that most, so many kids at that age, sixteen years old. They get, they get a rejection and they don't bounce back from it. And if they don't make it to the very top, they'll often take that badly and pursue a different career path. But you rejected at sixteen, you persevered, you got into the team at Northampton, you made a good, um, good impression there. And then eventually you end up at Newcastle at what, nineteen?

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Eighteen.

• 5:57Steven Bartlett?

  Eighteen years old. How was that experience?

• 6:01Speaker 01

  It was crazy. First time away from home at such a young age, eighteen is like.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  And as well, you thought you was a man, like from League Two, there was talks of you going to a Premier League team. And like, I would never in the Northampton changing feel like I was a man. Like there was talks going on, but nothing's done until it's done. So it's kind of like, actually before I was going to Newcastle, I was supposed to go to Wolves.

• 6:30Steven Bartlett?

  Right.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  But I've got there, I got to Wolves. Um, I've met everybody, went in the changing rooms, got my number on, met, uh, took the pictures. They come to the, the contract side.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  And then I think there was a bit of talk with my agent and the club on certain things. And then it related back to us. My was all just confused, me and my family, didn't know what was going on. And then out of nowhere, the club come out and said, um, we're not looking to sign you no more. Due to you having scoliosis in your back.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  So we was just think, we was so confused from getting the squad number, meeting all the players, meeting all the staff and then for them to come out and say,

• 7:19Speaker 01

  "You're scoliosis in your, in your back, we wasn't, we're not looking to sign you." It's kind of like,

• 7:24Speaker 01

  is that really the reason? Is there more behind it?

• 7:28Speaker 01

  But then,

• 7:31Speaker 01

  be, from going, having to go back to Northampton, like I've said my goodbyes at Northampton and I'm supposed to be going to sign with the Wolves. Then the next day I'm back in Northampton and training with the boys. Everybody's like, "What's happening?" And the manager sat me down and said, "Listen, don't dwell on that. I'm sure other things will come in, come into place." And I think a few weeks later, Newcastle were interested and I went there.

• 7:54Steven Bartlett?

  Scoliosis in your back? What is scoliosis and were they aware that you had scoliosis?

• 7:59Speaker 01

  I feel like they was aware because before we set up to see a specialist, because they, they, they, I feel like they wanted to know what was going on, how bad it was, because I think certain scoliosis, it stops you from walking at a certain age and just gets worse and worse, but I feel like, I hope we did see a specialist who said you'd be lucky to be walking at 28 still.

• 8:23Steven Bartlett?

  Really?

• 8:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  And then I was just, like, it doesn't really register. Like, you think at the time at 18, I'm thinking, well, I'm fine now, I'm, I'm enjoying football now. So it's, that really registered, but being 27, closer to 28, you kind of think, well,

• 8:42Speaker 01

  I'm strong, fit and healthy, touch wood continuously, so.

• 8:47Steven Bartlett?

  What is scoliosis?

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Well, your back's not straight.

• 8:50Steven Bartlett?

  Oh.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  It's like, got a slight.

• 8:52Steven Bartlett?

  Bend in your back?

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, bend.

• 8:55Steven Bartlett?

  It hasn't affected your game?

• 8:56Speaker 01

  I don't feel like it has. And yeah, going back to moving to Newcastle, it's like.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Going from League Two to Premier League is

• 9:09Speaker 01

  is crazy. Like, soon as I went there, I had no fancy, you get recognised, but it's not crazy. I then go into there, Newcastle, I'm in the hotel, everybody's recognising me straight away. It's like a crowd outside the hotel waiting to see me and it's kind of like at eighteen, this is all happening, so fast.

• 9:31Steven Bartlett?

  You're away from home as well.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Away from home.

• 9:32Steven Bartlett?

  Damn.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  A long way as well.

• 9:35Steven Bartlett?

  What are you, what are you feeling when Newcastle make that phone call and they, they say they're interested in you and then you move there? What does it feel like as an eighteen year old? Because I can only imagine. I was, I was always playing football when I was younger, I was always hoping a little bit to be a footballer, I knew I wasn't good enough, but you know. I'm going with that whole got injured at sixteen.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is crazy, it is crazy. This is so exciting, like, you want to tell everybody, you want to say, oh, I'm going here tomorrow, yeah, I'm going here, I'm going here. But with me, how I am, nothing's done till it's done, especially after the Wolves stuff.

• 10:09Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  Like, that was on the back of my mind, so I'm thinking, right, just wait until it's all sorted, then you can tell everyone. When I'm so excited, I just want to tell this person, that person, this is something. So it's, yeah, it was, it was crazy, my head was all over the place and thinking, I'm actually going to the Premier League, like. I've made it, I'm here. But little did I know, I far from made it.

• 10:35Steven Bartlett?

  What happened?

• 10:38Speaker 01

  I feel like when you take that step, you get, you get noticed more, you get more money.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  And you just do silly things, like, you get mixed in the wrong crowd, going out here and there, buying things you wouldn't normally buy.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  Just a bit naive. And as well, being away from my family. Although they kept on telling me, don't do nothing silly. Look after your money, this and that. You kind of think, okay, but they're not here to control what I've got hold of right now. I can spend it on this, I can spend it on that. Like, you just do things, like I said, things you'd never normally do. Like, we're getting personal shoppers to come to the house. And who'd have thought, go to the shop and buy yourself stuff if you want to do that? So it's like these kind of things. But, yeah, I think it didn't come at me fast. I wouldn't say that, I'd say just like a surprise kind of thing, like.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  Like I said, I thought I'd made it. So whatever happens, I'm fine, I'm in the Premier League.

• 11:51Steven Bartlett?

  What was the advice that you needed at that point that you didn't get? Like, if you could go back now and have a chat with Ivan and say, listen, bro, you arrive at Newcastle that day and you get a chance just to say a couple of things to him, what'd you say?

• 12:01Speaker 01

  I'd sit down, have a long chat with him.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  It would be a long chat. No, I think I'd just say, like, this is where the hard work starts. It's not finished, you're not, you can't pull it on cruise control. You've got to go to extra gear. Like, yeah, I'm at a Premier League club, but I haven't played yet.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  I've not got continuous games under my belt to be saying, okay, I'm a Premier League player now.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  So it's like.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  I'd say to, yeah, a younger Ivan or anybody that's in that situation going, doing such a big jump. To say that's when the hard work starts.

• 12:37Steven Bartlett?

  Were you in cruise control, do you think?

• 12:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:40Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  If, if, if I even was moving, I'd probably put a handbrake on.

• 12:44Steven Bartlett?

  Really?

• 12:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just thought, I'm Premier League now.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  And as well, you're seeing all the big boys, like, literally training there. It's like, yeah, I'm here now.

• 12:58Steven Bartlett?

  And you played two games before they loaned you out.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I come off the bench twice against United and Chelsea.

• 13:05Steven Bartlett?

  And then you went on quite a long loan spell. Barnsley, Shrewsbury, Wiggins, Gunthorpe. When you find out you're getting loaned out, how do you receive that as a player? I've always wondered this. When you're a young player in the club, big, you're in the Premier League. Because I think there's a lot about Manchester United as being a fan. We always loan out our like younger lads. And I wonder how how that's positioned to you as a player and how you receive it.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  It's not the best feeling.

• 13:29Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Because at the time, it's kind of like, well, do you not want me here? Like, I'm here, now you want to send me away like.

• 13:37Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, and you've got the personal shopper coming over.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah, yeah, so I need to I need to sort some things out to be.

• 13:43Steven Bartlett?

  You can't be in Shrewsbury.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't think you'll travel that far. But now, yeah, I feel like like it's at that age, you don't really think what you're going to learn for. I mean, first team experience is is probably the best at that age as well. And like knowing like, because I feel like, no disrespect to youth team football is cool. Like, take a tackle, pretty football, then go into League One, like I said, on loan. You're going to get bashed around, so you need to be ready for that physical battle.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  And I feel like going on loan definitely helped me looking back now. It helped me a lot, but at the time I was thinking, I don't need to go on loan. I'm ready to be playing in the Premier League. I feel like from young, I've always had that, that my dad always told me, no matter where you are. If you have that mentality that you're a Premier League player, but at the moment you're just on League One, that's fine. But if you don't have that mentality that I'm a Premier League player, so I don't need to try here, then it's not going to work out. So it doesn't matter where you are, if you have the mentality, I should be playing in the Prem. But right now, I'm playing here, that's fine. And I feel like you you go you go a long way to where I am now. I'm a Premier League player.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  That bit of advice that my dad gave me was very key.

• 15:08Steven Bartlett?

  When you went off on loan and they say, okay, you're leaving Newcastle now, does that take you out of cruise control and into like, right, I've got something to prove again?

• 15:15Speaker 01

  It should, it should have.

• 15:17Steven Bartlett?

  But it didn't.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  It didn't really because I always believed that no matter what happened where I went, I'm going back to Newcastle. So no matter if I played, didn't play at all or played rubbish, I'm going back to Newcastle, back to the Premier League, but not knowing the effects that could have or it did have in the end. Even though I think all the clubs I went to, bar one, I left top goalscorer.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  But it was like, I could have, looking back, I feel like I could have went that extra step further.

• 15:53Steven Bartlett?

  You had a good spell as well at Scunthorpe United, six goals in 15 appearances. Showed a huge promise while you're on your loan spells as a prolific goalscorer. And then at 22 years old, you're transferred to Peterborough United. After failing to secure a regular place at Newcastle. Now, that, that must have been an interesting moment because that's kind of like another knockback in it. Goes back to like Leicester, the Leicester rejection and stuff. That's like another step down. You've made it to the prem and now you've got, got to take a step down.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a mass, no, actually not, I wouldn't say a massive knock, knockback. It was a knockback, but it was kind of like, maybe a knockback I needed at the time. Because like I remember sitting down with my dad and my agent at the time and saying, listen. Like me and my dad are brutal, whoever we work with, we want the, we want the honest, honest truth. No matter if they say, we don't want him, he's not good enough for us. I'd rather my agent tell me that. But how the relationship was with my agent at the time, he kind of sugarcoat things.

• 17:01Steven Bartlett?

  Right.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  So me and my dad kind of had to get out of him. What did the club say? Like, just tell us, be honest. And his words were, the club don't think you're good enough already at this moment in time. So it was kind of like in my head, it was like, okay, fine, no problem. It's time for me to go elsewhere, then regroup and restart. It wasn't like I was too old. It was just, it was just a knockback and setback that, like I said at the time, probably needed to kickstart my journey again.

• 17:31Steven Bartlett?

  Do you think Newcastle were right in saying that?

• 17:34Speaker 01

  Um, possibly. Like, don't get me wrong, Newcastle are a great club. They had some, they've had some great players and doing very well at the moment. But I feel like I didn't really have a chance in the first team to prove if I was good, good enough.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  I feel personally, anyway. And to be fair, at the time was when Newcastle were fighting to stay, stay up in the Premier League when Rafa Benitez first come in.

• 18:02Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, yeah.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  So it was kind of understandable. He wanted these players to try and keep them up.

• 18:10Steven Bartlett?

  We wanted experience and stuff more than like to be giving youth, younger players a chance and stuff, is that what you're saying?

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel like, I mean, you can't really put so much responsibility on youth players or young players to keep you up in the Premier League. It's such a big ask, but I feel like maybe the following season, it was kind of like, could he get a sniff? And I think he kind of brought his, his, his own players in and done his own, own thing, which is, that's, that's football.

• 18:39Steven Bartlett?

  So off you go to Peterborough. Um, you're closer to your family at this point?

• 18:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:43Steven Bartlett?

  Which helps.

• 18:43Speaker 01

  Closer, yeah. I'm a mummy's boy at heart, so I leave my mum around, close.

• 18:50Steven Bartlett?

  And did it change your attitude moving to Peterborough on like this whole cruise control thing?

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it did. And especially when I went, first went to Peterborough, I wasn't playing. At the first, I'd say 10 games, the strikers out in front of me was scoring every game, assisting, playing well. But the manager at the time, Steve Evans, was just saying, don't worry, your chance will come. And when your chance comes, it's up to you to take it.

• 19:20Steven Bartlett?

  And your chance came.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:22Steven Bartlett?

  And you took it.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Ah, yeah, hundred percent took it.

• 19:25Steven Bartlett?

  You scored twenty four goals in thirty two League One games at Peterborough, which is insane.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel like, yeah, like, well, the, like, the, the competitions all over the field, but especially as, as a striker, you need to, your job to score goals, and especially when the other two are scoring goals. If you get that one sniff and you don't score, you're back out again, and it gives him another opportunity.

• 19:49Steven Bartlett?

  The director of, um, football at Peterborough said you were an incredibly hard worker. He also said you were their best defender because you headed away nine out of ten corners.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  I feel like, yeah, them games, I kind of had a magnet on my head that was just of bringing the ball towards me, but yeah, no, I think the hard work as well, like, when, when I'm loved by a manager, I feel like, and a club, I feel like it's in me to want to give back. I want to do a lot of things for, like, run for a brick wall for the manager that's wanting me in his position.

• 20:24Steven Bartlett?

  Did they become like proxy father figures to you in that regard? Because you're clearly a man that's close to your father.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 20:30Steven Bartlett?

  Do they kind of, you know, you see what I'm saying? Is that, is it a similar relationship, like a, where you want to do them proud?

• 20:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, a hundred percent. And especially when I signed, like, with, with, when I first signed at Peterborough with Steve Evans, like, the first time he spoke to me, he was just, it was like a friend, like a normal chat, even though you got the respect as a manager, but he was saying, listen, I want you to come in, score goals and go, go, go, go higher. Like, the goals you score for us benefits you and us because we're going to go higher and you're going to go higher. So it's a win-win. And I think him putting an arm around me at that time, knowing I've come from a Premier League club and saying it's not really a knockback. This is where you kick, kick, kickstart your journey again. Having that, I think definitely helped me.

• 21:20Steven Bartlett?

  And didn't you have, I read somewhere that you had an agreement with them, like a verbal agreement, that if a bigger club came knocking, they wouldn't stand in your way, Peter, bruh?

• 21:28Speaker 01

  That probably was a verbal agreement, but if anybody knows the Peter, Peter staff and the owners, then they probably have different ideas. But, I mean, yeah, I guess when I did go, that was the right timing. Every, every player thinks when there's a move on a car is you want to try and rush it through and if things aren't right, then they're not right for a reason. Like you can't rush good things, good things aren't rushed. I think at the time, there was a chance I could have went to somewhere, I tried to rush it through and it was like, don't worry.

• 21:59Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, really? So there was offers from other clubs?

• 22:00Speaker 01

  There was offers from other clubs, yeah, but.

• 22:02Steven Bartlett?

  Big clubs?

• 22:03Speaker 01

  Um, bigish at the time.

• 22:05Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, like championship clubs?

• 22:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, championship clubs and they were saying, just, just be patient, you're gonna get a better, better club. And I'm just there like, not kicking my, not throwing my toys out of the pram, just be like, wow, this is a chance to move now. Who's to know what can happen, blah, blah, and then I ended up staying and, and I went to Brentford, which was probably the best choice in the end.

• 22:30Steven Bartlett?

  And you're around this time, I mean, just before then, twenty one years old, you become a father for the first time.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's, that's as well what helped me kickstart my journey as well, because I feel like I've got people to provide for. Um, I have expensive tastes as well, so it's either choosing my expensive tastes or my family. So if I could school goals and help both, then it's perfect. So I think that's what helped me pick things up and I had to provide for people.

• 23:03Steven Bartlett?

  Does that focus you? Because I'm not a dad yet, but it's around the corner for me, I'm sure. Um, does that focus you, your priorities in a sense, like, does it make? Because I speak to my, my mates who have had kids and they almost describe that moment when their baby first comes. They kind of see the world differently and their like responsibilities differently and stuff.

• 23:21Speaker 01

  One hundred percent, one hundred percent, like you can't do the things you normally do. You have to think baby first, in all aspects.

• 23:29Steven Bartlett?

  Did it make your game better?

• 23:31Speaker 01

  One hundred, yeah.

• 23:32Steven Bartlett?

  Really?

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, one hundred percent, definitely.

• 23:33Steven Bartlett?

  How?

• 23:35Speaker 01

  It's like, I wanna make him proud. So when he's older, that's my dad. He done this, he's doing this, this is this. So it's kind of like a pride thing as well as wanting to do well for my family and have a better, better lifestyle for everybody, not just me and my people I provide for.

• 23:54Steven Bartlett?

  When, when did you find out that Brentford are interested?

• 23:57Speaker 01

  It was actually training at St George's Park.

• 24:00Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  Uh, with Peterborough. And there was talks of going here, there. I was kind of like, I'm gonna know him, just like, yeah, when it's, when it's something concrete, then let me know. Uh, right now, I just wanna focus on training hard. Cause it's easy to be led astray when this club's interested in you, this club's interested, you hear loads of things. But then, nothing's concrete, like, it's just all well and good. These are looking at you, these are looking at you. But these times, I'm not a kid no more.

• 24:33Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  When they want me and put a bid in, then we can start talking. Whereas hearing they're interested, what does that mean? That doesn't mean nothing. Like, everybody can be interested, but nobody wants you.

• 24:45Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  So when Brentford come along and I was, I was interested and actually put a bid in, I was like, it's like, okay. I spoke to the manager, he kind of was straightforward and said, you wanna come in and be the main man. We want you to be starting every game and score goals and do your job then. Either take us up or go to a, go to, go to a higher club.

• 25:12Steven Bartlett?

  So you get that call from Brentford, they put a bid in, you speak to the manager, Thomas Frank?

• 25:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:17Steven Bartlett?

  And Thomas says, listen, you're gonna be our number one.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  I think it was a no brainer. I think, I did speak to other clubs, um.

• 25:26Steven Bartlett?

  What other clubs?

• 25:27Speaker 01

  I went, actually I went up to Rangers.

• 25:28Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, nice.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Spoke with the manager there, which was Steven Gerrard at the time.

• 25:33Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  And.

• 25:35Steven Bartlett?

  Manchester United, did you speak to?

• 25:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, they said I wasn't good enough.

• 25:38Steven Bartlett?

  I was gonna say, I was gonna fucking call them.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I'm playing. Nah, yeah, I went to, I went to, um, I went to Rangers, we spoke a bit, but then they said, I was like. Two, I think there was two strikers at the time.

• 25:52Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  And then I was looking to get another one in. So it would have been like four strikers, I think. And I think the formation they played, majority of the time, one striker at top.

• 26:00Steven Bartlett?

  So you would have been like third choice or something?

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, something like this. But, and then we went to Celtic, we spoke to Celtic, and I think it was like the same there. I'm one of three strikers or something like this. And I think at the time of when it was I was moving, I wanted to be like the main guy.

• 26:20Steven Bartlett?

  Mm hmm.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Like, I think the crucial thing for me is playing games, even though I back myself on competing with other strikers, but I wanna be know that when I go in, walk first, first foot through the door. On the main man up front and it's up to me to keep my position.

• 26:36Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  I feel like when I went to, when I spoke to the manager at Brentford, he pretty much said, you're the main guy. And I don't see nobody taking your spot. So you make sure you produce, produce the goods and it's yours really.

• 26:53Steven Bartlett?

  You, you've worked a lot of clubs. Um, you've played at a lot of different clubs. Brentford are special. They're really, really special because they are, based on their resources, they are objectively overachieving in a really, really significant way. Um. What is it about Brentford from your experience that is make, what is that magic that they have?

• 27:16Speaker 01

  Hard work, plain and simple, hard work. Like, we're not the best technically gifted team. We have some magicians in the team, but other than that, it's just hard work. I mean, and we fear nobody. We respect them, but we don't fear them. So when we go to, let's say, Anfield away. Or Chelsea away or these kind of games, we know they're probably on paper better than us, got some big names and this and that, but. If at the end of the day, the main thing that wins games is hard work and a little bit of quality, I guess, putting the ball in the back of the net. And I feel like throughout the, throughout the club, everybody knows what the manager wants.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  You have to, you have to, you have to be willing to run for your teammate, plus your left, plus your right, and the fans and everybody. And everybody knows the responsibility they have on their shoulders when they step onto the pitch. So I think that's, that's probably what's brought us to where and how well we're doing at the moment. And even like at the moment, the team playing without me, I, I hear and people say, oh, reckon Brentford are going to be like this now you're not playing this and that. And I'm thinking, no, they're not going to struggle because they, they work hard. And when you work hard, you give yourself the best chance of winning a game. And I, I, I know deep down Brentford will be fine with or without me.

• 28:44Steven Bartlett?

  Well, you've played at a lot of clubs, right? So you can kind of compare and contrast. Is there anything else other than just that work ethic that you've noticed is just different at Brentford? So you've got super hard work. Is there anything else, their approach to things or the strategy or the way that they?

• 28:58Speaker 01

  I feel like the togetherness as well, how everybody's like, everybody talks to everyone. I've been at clubs where it's like a certain group sit there, certain groups sit there like everybody divided is like, but it's not that at Brentford. Everybody mixes with everybody. You've got people of Spanish, Danish, which is the majority of the club at the moment. Um, English and everything and everybody just mixes together. So it's not like, ah, let me, where my friends, where should I sit down at lunch? You just get your lunch, sit down here and you talk with whoever.

• 29:35Steven Bartlett?

  And the manager?

• 29:37Speaker 01

  That comes from him. I feel like he makes sure the togetherness and the humbleness. Like there's no, nobody at the club thinks they're better than nobody. Like even last season, I scored twenty goals. I wa- I wasn't better than nobody. I was the same. A person that doesn't really play too much. They're not less of a person than me. We're all the same. We're all in it together. So I feel like that comes from the manager and his philosophy at the club and how he wants things to be run.

• 30:07Steven Bartlett?

  What are the things that you, I often think with managers and CEOs and stuff like this, they have their like core principles, which you just get bored of hearing. Cause they say it over and over and over and over again. What are those things that he just repeats over and over and over again?

• 30:19Speaker 01

  Togetherness.

• 30:20Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  Humble.

• 30:22Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  And attitude.

• 30:25Steven Bartlett?

  And I guess he polices that pretty.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, all the time. It's all over the club. It's all in the meetings. Which is probably why, like I said, we do, we're doing so well as a club and as, as, as a whole, whole unit.

• 30:44Steven Bartlett?

  What's the, what's the dressing room, the training ground dressing room culture like? Again, I ask this because I've spoken to so many players at United in particular, and especially in the Fergie era, they always talk about the like, the self policing culture in the dressing room. You know, like what's that like versus other clubs?

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, like, like I said, it's, yeah, it's good. Like, there's other clubs I've been at, it's, it's been good as well, but not how it is in Brentford. I feel like Brentford is probably one of the best dressings I've been in, in terms of. Everybody knows their drill. E- e- everyone, everyone knows their position. Everybody's helping others. Like everybody's just like they respect if something's on the floor, tidy, pick up, put it in there. Like them kind of things is key if you wanna be achieving something big. And I feel like with that, in the changing room as well as in the gym or in the, in the, in the dinner hall. It is key and everybody's up for everybody. It was, it's like one big family unit.

• 31:47Steven Bartlett?

  Twenty six years old, you're named Brentford's Player of the Season.

• 31:52Steven Bartlett?

  You scored 12 goals in the first Premier League season and then you scored 20 goals in your second Premier League season, finishing third in the Golden Beat rankings behind Haaland and Harry Kane.

• 32:03Steven Bartlett?

  That's big.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. It is big, it is big, but sometimes I don't really realise how big it is. Because sometimes at home I'm thinking, yeah, well, I'm not first. In my head, if you're not first, you're last. Then, like my family say, look who you're behind and look at the calibre of players that are playing in the Premier League and you've scored more than these guys. I'm always thinking, yeah, but I could have scored more and...

• 32:30Steven Bartlett?

  You think you could score more than Haaland?

• 32:34Speaker 01

  What, you got something, it's like 30 something?

• 32:35Steven Bartlett?

  Thirty six.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  I mean, not...

• 32:41Speaker 01

  I mean, not more, but I look back on chances that should have been a goal and I feel like there probably is like 15, 16 chances that I probably could have scored or should have scored. So if I was as clinical as Haaland was, not to say I'll beat him, but I could be a lot higher than, a lot higher than 20.

• 33:03Steven Bartlett?

  England.

• 33:05Steven Bartlett?

  England's football team. I saw, I think I saw a post on your Instagram a couple of weeks ago about that being a huge dream for you, to play for England.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think everybody wants to play for England.

• 33:18Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, I was a kid, just kicking the ball at the shed.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  I remember just screaming like Gerrard's name and Lampard's name, like when they're on the field, just kicking and like you said, when that opportunity was around and I was in talks of it.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  It just didn't, it didn't feel real from being Ivan from the Hampton, just playing out the front, getting bashed around by the older lot to actually having the chance to play for England was something I would never have jumped to.

• 33:49Steven Bartlett?

  You missed out on the final World Cup squad.

• 33:54Steven Bartlett?

  Lots of circulating rumours about why. Would you know why?

• 34:02Speaker 01

  I guess, I guess it comes down to allegations on the betting scandal. But I feel like, personally, I felt like it was a bit of a questionable time when they decided to bring it all out. And then when they actually dealt with the situation come the end of the season, it's kind of like, why did you bring it out then? To, and then punish me at the end of the season?

• 34:32Steven Bartlett?

  So they brought it, so you, I guess you're saying that you suspect they brought it out at that time to prevent you going to play for England?

• 34:38Speaker 01

  I assume so, and to make it a bigger story.

• 34:40Steven Bartlett?

  Ah, okay.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Personally, anyway, I don't know if it's true, like, I'm not to know what's behind the scenes, but I feel like if you have somebody go into the World Cup, that's supposed to be betting, then it's kind of like a bigger story.

• 34:58Steven Bartlett?

  What's the, I'm not very clued up on this whole FA thing. So the FA, the England team play under the FA?

• 35:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:08Steven Bartlett?

  And the FA are also the sort of body that brought the charges against you?

• 35:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 35:12Steven Bartlett?

  So they, so one might assume that they released the charges at that point because if they didn't, then there might be some ramifications on the England team or the perceptions of the England team or something.

• 35:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I assume so. Like, I'm not too aware of all this stuff, but I feel like it was a bit of a coincidence when they decided to bring it all out and then

• 35:35Speaker 01

  having to be dealt with the punishment at the end of the season so far after, it's kind of like,

• 35:44Speaker 01

  I mean, you'd know, well, I feel like, yes, I'm banned now, but the biggest punishment for me was missing out on playing at the World Cup, personally. I felt more hurt and, what's the word, it's kind of like.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just, I just felt, I felt down around the time. Felt like. Somebody is out to get me at that time to stop me from playing for England. In my head, like, that's just how I seen it at the time. It's like. They want to punish me for this, missing out on England. The World Cup, like, that's everybody's dream to be playing at the World Cup. And then further down the line, ban me as well. It's kind of like.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  A double hit, I feel.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  In a sense, whereas, like I said. If he was gonna do, if he's gonna stop me from going to World Cup, do it there and then and deal with it, deal with the whole situation. Rather than doing that, missing out on the World Cup, and then let me play the rest of the season, and then banning me after the season.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  It's, it doesn't add up in my head, to be fair, anyway.

• 37:01Steven Bartlett?

  When you say I felt down about it, what does that mean in real terms? If I was a fly on the wall in your life when, when that information came in?

• 37:08Speaker 01

  That was probably my.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  Excuse me, that was probably the lowest point. I was like, with me, I never show nothing, I never show emotion too tough. But I think that was probably the lowest point I felt. Like, you'd ask me about it, I was like, yeah, it's what it is. But that is what it is, it's kind of like.

• 37:31Steven Bartlett?

  I don't want to talk about it.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, damn. It hurt. It did hurt.

• 37:37Steven Bartlett?

  Do you cry?

• 37:40Speaker 01

  No, I don't feel like crying solves anything. Personally, that's my personal views. Everybody says to me, you need to show emotion, you can cry, it's okay, but like. I feel like I've only cried once when I see.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  My nan cry from losing my pap. I'm seeing her hurt as much as she was.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Killed me inside. And it was kind of like, I didn't cry a cry, but it was like tears in my eyes coming down and it was kind of like, it was painful.

• 38:16Steven Bartlett?

  Do you express your, how you're feeling to anyone in your life at that point, to your partner, to your family, your mum, your dad? When you, when you find out that you're not going to play for England and they've, you know, the rumours are out about this gambling situation. Do you tell anyone how you're actually feeling?

• 38:31Speaker 01

  Um, no, but people that know me know. My actions and how that leads to how I'm feeling. Like, I'd be a lot more like snappy about things. Or I'd just be like, like I can just be like, uh, and someone be talking to me and it's not like really registering. But my, my head's not really in the room kind of thing. And that people that know me know, like, something's up, something's wrong.

• 39:01Steven Bartlett?

  What was the reality of the situation? What was going on inside your head? And how was it, when you say down and you say that was the lowest point, how, what, what does that mean in real terms?

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Um, I wouldn't say depressed as such. But it was kind of like, not far off that.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  If anything, towards that direction, but not completely.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  Cause like, that's still how I stay in my head. It's like, next opportunity, next, next day, another day is another day to put things right and try and be as positive as I can.

• 39:40Steven Bartlett?

  Have you ever had anxiety?

• 39:43Speaker 01

  Probably, but

• 39:46Speaker 01

  how I am, I don't let it get to me as much. Like, I'd say the loan spells, when, when I'm on loan, I'm in a room on my own. There's been times I've just literally sat there without the TV on, just, just sat there. And just like, chilling and just looking into thin air and just thinking about things.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  But I'd never, like I said, I'd never like let nobody know how I'm feeling. Because how I am as a person.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  I feel like it eats away at me, but I'm just always a smiley one. Always like, I ask people at Brentford now, I'm the joke, I'm making sure everyone's fine. These kind of things. I think that's my kind of way of beating my emotions. If I see this person happy, from me doing that.

• 40:44Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  Then it kind of brings me up to make me happy, kind of thing.

• 40:49Steven Bartlett?

  Did you, did you not speak to anyone, like a professional, about, about this stuff? Because I always think when we bottle up our emotions, it's not like they go away. It's like, almost like they, they eat us up from inside and they, they come out in other ways. Like you were saying, snappiness or whatever, or, you know. Surely there's someone around you that said you need to see someone?

• 41:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, yeah, there was, but as well with me being stubborn, it's kind of like, nah, I'm fine. It's fine. Like, I'll be right tomorrow. I'll be right later. I'll be right next week.

• 41:20Speaker 01

  I feel like I can speak to anybody in my family, but like, my stubbornness just don't allow me to.

• 41:28Steven Bartlett?

  I think a lot of men can relate to that, you know?

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, hundred percent. I, I feel like I do need to get better at that.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  Personally.

• 41:40Steven Bartlett?

  In May twenty, twenty sixth, you did a famous tweet. Do you know the tweet I'm talking about?

• 41:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:47Steven Bartlett?

  I'll speak soon with no filter.

• 41:50Steven Bartlett?

  You ready to speak?

• 41:51Speaker 01

  Um.

• 41:54Steven Bartlett?

  And what, what did that tweet mean?

• 41:56Speaker 01

  That was just speak on everything, really.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  But obviously when I done that, it went crazy and then my family just said, listen, you don't need to talk. Just when you get on a pitch, let your feet do the talking.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  What's it, damage is done. You can't talk and it's not going to help no situation. If anything could not damage my reputation or my career, but just make people think. Not that I care what people think, it's just could put in a word stat, who do you think he is? That kind of thing, but it doesn't benefit no parties.

• 42:33Steven Bartlett?

  What headspace were you in when you tweeted that?

• 42:35Speaker 01

  Probably a reckless one.

• 42:36Steven Bartlett?

  Really?

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:38Steven Bartlett?

  How are you feeling?

• 42:40Speaker 01

  Thinking.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  I don't care attitude, I'd say.

• 42:48Steven Bartlett?

  Kind of a defence mechanism against.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  Pretty much, yeah, against everybody. Like even like little things like.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  For the whole situation, not not like my friends, my friends, my friends, the one I stick with, better people I I chill with all the time. But it's even like when I goes. I don't know if it's just me thinking certain things, but it's like when I go certain places like. Maybe some people don't want to be associated with me in certain way of. Obviously ju- because of media kind of thing and it's kind of like. Not killing their image, but it's kind of like, you're doing this guy, he's a match fixer. He's he's match fixing football, the the.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  And like even like, I remember at the time, when there was allegations. I wanted to go to a restaurant and I was like, no, you can't, uh, we're we're not taking you.

• 43:41Steven Bartlett?

  The restaurant?

• 43:41Speaker 01

  A restaurant. I was like, what do you mean? As I, because the allegations, we're not allowing you in or something like this.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  I was actually so confused. I was thinking for starters, it's allegations. And secondly, your restaurant, how can you not let somebody in due to bad press? That's what they called it, bad press. I was just baffled and even to like.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  My my car insurance, they wouldn't insure me due to.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  The the whole scandal. I was just like, a car insurance, they don't want me on their books because.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  Which was baffling.

• 44:25Steven Bartlett?

  I read through the the whole um FA report, many, many pages, I think it was like twenty five, twenty five odd pages, I have it here. Just to understand the case better, just so I ma- ma- made sure I didn't make any errors in my observations, but there's no. I think there's actually a line in there where the commission say they um didn't believe you were doing any match fixing.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  As far from match fixing.

• 44:47Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, I I wrote that down in my in my notes that um.

• 44:52Steven Bartlett?

  They concluded that you hadn't been match fixing or anything like that in their report. Um so that that allegation from whoever said that, the restaurant or whatever, um doesn't seem to have a basis in the report at all.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  And I'm sure there was certain. Articles on saying match fixing as well, which is, that's probably the media for you, making it a big talking point.

• 45:14Steven Bartlett?

  When the FA first contact you and, and they ask, they make a request for information, don't they? So they wanna know more information.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:21Steven Bartlett?

  This is dating back to two thousand and twenty two, I believe. When you get that first contact, how does that feel? Like your dad or your agent must have told you that the FA have been in touch.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  Well, they wanted information from as far back as two thousand and fifteen. So it was kinda like, well, I haven't got no, as long as I haven't got that phone, that I had back then to give you information. But I wanted to cooperate how I can to let you investigate what you wanna investigate. And when I was, when I, the club actually pulled me into a room and they spoke to me and said, the FA have been in touch with you, match fixing, this and that. They wanna speak to you. And I said, okay.

• 46:06Steven Bartlett?

  This is Brentford.

• 46:07Speaker 01

  This is Brentford, yeah. I said, okay, no problem, like. Then he was like, have you done any bets?

• 46:14Speaker 01

  Whilst, whilst you've been at Brentford and have you been betting on football?

• 46:19Speaker 01

  And I was like, no, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't done no bets that are fixing, fixing foot, match fixing football, like. He's like, okay, well, the FA wanna speak to you. Don't delete nothing on your phone because there's a system that, they said they can get back old messages or whatever they said. So I said, no problem. I'm not, I'm not deleting nothing. If they can go through what they wanna go through.

• 46:44Steven Bartlett?

  And then they called you in for an interview in May twenty twenty two.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:48Steven Bartlett?

  And they asked you all these questions again about what, what you've been involved in with betting, et cetera.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. And they asked me certain things that happened like I said, seven, eight years ago, under the top of my head.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  So much information in front of me at one time. It's kind of like, I actually can't remember. I can't remember and there's, I think I was in there for like, what, five hours.

• 47:13Steven Bartlett?

  Five hours?

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:15Steven Bartlett?

  But at that time, you you maintained to them that you you're not betting on football.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I was, I wasn't aware what what that was, what I was trying to get at.

• 47:24Steven Bartlett?

  You acknowledged later on that you you you basically lied in that meeting with the F A.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  I didn't lie, I just couldn't really remember what they what they was asking for at the time, I couldn't remember. Until they brought some things in front of me and it was kind of like, okay, he's talking about my memory and we. Like I said, I cooperated with everything they wanted to do and we kind of spoke on it and then I told them the truth about everything.

• 47:45Steven Bartlett?

  One of the things people people might find surprising is they they asked for your, they asked for your mobile phones and stuff. And then they like image your mobile phones to check like all the messages you've sent to people. Going back a long time on the on these phones to find out everything you've been said and also. As you said, they they ask you not to delete any messages, which you didn't from from what the commission said.

• 48:07Steven Bartlett?

  But how does that feel when the F A asks for your mobile phone and they, you know they're going to scan it for everything?

• 48:13Speaker 01

  It doesn't feel, yeah, it's just kind of like. It's your privacy and they're they're like invading it. It's kind of like. I've got certain pictures on there I won't want them to see, like these kind of things, so it's. Pretty much like you have to go with what they're saying, otherwise I feel like, I think the you you get a longer ban for not. Cooperating or something like this, so what what can I do? You want to take my phone, take my phone.

• 48:40Steven Bartlett?

  And all your bank statements as well. They asked for your bank statements, which you handed over as well.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:47Steven Bartlett?

  You handed over, I believe, multiple phones.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  No, just the one phone.

• 48:50Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, just the one phone. Yeah, I thought there was a, there was some.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  They they said there was another phone, but there wasn't.

• 48:56Steven Bartlett?

  The commission did move that as well. And then eventually you admit to two hundred and thirty two breaches of their rules and the F A rule. E eight.

• 49:05Steven Bartlett?

  Which is betting over five seasons from tw- tw- twenty fifth of February two thousand seventeen to betting up until January twenty one.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  Yes, I believe so. And like I said, there was people saying I was match fixing, but none of it was match fixing. It was just, like I said before, I was betting on myself to score first. From, I think this was a while back.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  And it's kind of like, that's not, like, I'm not trying to do, not trying, I'm still trying to do the right thing. It's not like I'm smashing someone and getting a yellow card here, there and everywhere.

• 49:43Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, and the report actually does say that. It says that you weren't, you weren't, the commission said that you weren't match fixing, which is a completely different, completely different thing. They're making bets on like games that you're, either you're playing and betting on yourself to score, or betting on the team when you're not in the team. Which is what, from what I read, which is what, what happened. Gambling in, generally, when did that start in your life? When did you start first gambling?

• 50:07Speaker 01

  Um, I think it's just kind of like, as you're young, it's like a little flutter, they call it, like, you're in like the fair R K kind of thing, just trying to win a little change or something, or these kind of things. So I'd say like, around fifteen.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, fifteen as such.

• 50:28Steven Bartlett?

  And it, and it got progressively worse? Or more intense?

• 50:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'd say the more money you get, the more, the higher the stakes go. It's kind of like,

• 50:39Speaker 01

  oh, if I lose this, it's fine. This is coming next month.

• 50:43Steven Bartlett?

  Was, did you not realise, you know, throughout those sort of five years when you were betting a lot, two hundred and thirty two breaches, that your relationship with betting was unhealthy?

• 50:52Speaker 01

  I think on the, on the two hundred and, was it thirty two breaches, like, there was, there was some bets in there that, like, I don't recall making, but, but I was willing to take responsibility just to get the process all over and done with, because having that hovering over me and trying to concentrate on my career is not, is not the best feeling, far from the best feeling. And I don't, I don't well to finish on twenty goals with that hanging over me. But in terms of thinking, do you have a problem, it's kind of like, you don't think of, if I lose this, this is gonna happen.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  So it's like, ah, once I won this, this, this, this, this can happen. You never think of the negatives, you'd always think of the positives.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  And being on the money I was on, which I was a lot of the time, and it's kind of like, it's fine, I'll get there in the back end of the month.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  Ah, that's coming back this and this month. Oh, he owes me this, it's fine.

• 51:52Steven Bartlett?

  What impact was it having on your life betting?

• 51:55Speaker 01

  Um.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  I feel like.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  It was just the impact it would have, it was just waiting for payday.

• 52:07Steven Bartlett?

  Right.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  Like the amount happens through the month, you wait for payday.

• 52:11Steven Bartlett?

  Well, you could spend your wage and then wait for payday, spend your wage, wait for payday.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I'd, I'd pay and sort everything I need to pay for first. And then it's like, I got this player, do that, it's fine. Payday will come soon. So it wasn't, it wasn't like, spend this money I should be giving here or paying on this.

• 52:31Steven Bartlett?

  You took care of your.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  I took care of what needed to be cared of and in my head, it's kind of like, my money is my money, but I couldn't spend it how I wanna and.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, pretty much, pretty much like that. I've made my own money. It's up to me how I want to spend it.

• 52:50Steven Bartlett?

  And one of the, one of the things that was quite surprising is bets against, bets for your team to lose when you weren't playing in the team.

• 52:57Steven Bartlett?

  The, you, you, you must, you knew betting was wrong, right? Like you knew that as a footballer, you weren't allowed to bet.

• 53:02Speaker 01

  My knowledge of,

• 53:05Speaker 01

  not, my, my knowledge of betting on football, that I don't think, I recall once, somebody coming in just giving a talk on their experience betting, not, you can't bet on football. So it wasn't like, I shouldn't be betting on this, shouldn't be betting on that. And I feel like, I think the bets that were on my team to lose when I'm not playing. I think a few of the, a majority of those were within the bets that I know about personally, I think I didn't, didn't do, but I still took responsibility of them, for them. So the whole process could get cleared up.

• 53:42Steven Bartlett?

  And you, um, you don't know about some of these bets you're saying because you did them through somebody else.

• 53:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:47Steven Bartlett?

  Because, and you did them through somebody else because you, you knew you weren't allowed to, right?

• 53:51Speaker 01

  It wasn't through that I knew I wasn't allowed to, it was that I didn't see what, I didn't want my parents seeing what I'm doing with my money.

• 53:59Steven Bartlett?

  This was a point of contention in the documents. The FA said, you know, he's betting through somebody because he didn't want, he didn't want the FA to find out. You're saying you bet through somebody else because your parents, the mail was going to their house and you didn't want them opening up the post and seeing it.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right.

• 54:14Steven Bartlett?

  Essentially. That was a point. I mean, the commission go their own way on that. And then, okay, so moving on from that, there's, there's all these aggravating factors in the, in the document. Was he aware of the rules? I think you eventually admitted that you were aware of the rules in terms of not being able to bet on football. Going back to the days, I think in Northampton, I think, was it Northampton? One of your previous, I think your previous chairman at the football club was thrown out because of a betting scandal. And then you have a relative in your life that was also issued with a breach of the FA rules for betting in 2007 as well. So the commission concluded that you were aware of the rules and that you couldn't bet. But you sort of counteracted by saying you didn't

• 54:59Steven Bartlett?

  have.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  I think it was, it was kind of a grey area.

• 55:02Steven Bartlett?

  Right.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  But I think that was a time where, like I said, the, the clubs I've been at, they would at the beginning of every season, I feel like they'd have somebody come in, but not actually tell you what you can and what you can't bet on.

• 55:15Steven Bartlett?

  What would that person say? Just like broad?

• 55:16Speaker 01

  Just his experiences on betting. He'd come in and say, this is me betting, this is, and then I've lost this much. I've come through this. So when, if you think about betting, don't do it. So it wasn't like you can't be betting on football or you can't be betting on, yeah, you can't be betting on football. It was just his experiences of going through a gambling stage.

• 55:41Steven Bartlett?

  Because, so, so you didn't know you could, you couldn't bet as a player?

• 55:44Speaker 01

  No. I think it was a grey area. Some, like you'd hear, you can, you hit it, you can't. And then there's certain things you say you can't bet on, like with me personally, I feel like it was a grey area.

• 55:57Steven Bartlett?

  And you admitted in the, the second aggravating factor was about knowing, knowing whether you, basically admitting to whether you were betting or not. And in the interview with the, the commission, during the process, you said that you had lied earlier on by saying, I don't bet on football in an earlier interview. But, you know, that was one of the first interviews you had and you, you'd responded, I don't bet on football.

• 56:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:19Steven Bartlett?

  And that, that wasn't accurate.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was when obviously they threw everything at me. I thought if I was just denying it, then it's all fine. They wouldn't find nothing, but then.

• 56:28Steven Bartlett?

  Obviously they'd take your phones and everything.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, then everything went through and then, yeah, I admitted to, I admitted to what I'd done.

• 56:36Steven Bartlett?

  In the F A, the fourth aggravating factor was whether the player sought to conceal his identity when he set up his own betting account in two thousand and seventeen. The commission didn't accept the F A's submission there. They didn't, they didn't believe that you'd concealed it in that regard. Whether the player deleted messages, issue number five, commission concluded that there wasn't evidence that you'd deleted any messages.

• 56:57Speaker 01

  They, I, I was accused of deleting messages. Yeah, that's right.

• 57:00Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, by the F A, but the commission said that they, they didn't have substantial evidence for that.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:06Steven Bartlett?

  Kind of the same.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  I was told not to.

• 57:08Steven Bartlett?

  And you didn't.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  Delete nothing from the club.

• 57:11Steven Bartlett?

  The commission couldn't find any evidence that you had deleted anything, so.

• 57:15Steven Bartlett?

  And then the, the phone issue we've talked about already, the last issue was around whether you had a gambling addiction and they brought out a psychologist called Dr Philip Hopley, who looked, you did interviews with you. He's a highly qualified and experienced psychiatric expert, according to the commission. And he interviewed you on two occasions and he formed a clear opinion that you had a gambling addiction. And accordingly, the commission accepted the findings of the doctor on this issue. And that's part of the reason that you were given a more lenient sentence, because Dr Hopley said that you had an impulsive, compulsive disorder.

• 57:54Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah. Was that the first time you'd heard of gambling addiction?

• 57:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:59Steven Bartlett?

  Through this process, this tribunal?

• 58:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I feel like it wouldn't be in me to bring myself forward to speak to one of these people to see if I did have one.

• 58:14Speaker 01

  So it's kind of like, like I said, my stubbornness comes into play on this one. It's kind of like, no, I'm fine. I can stop when I want to stop.

• 58:23Steven Bartlett?

  What, what, did he, did someone explain to you what a gambling addiction is since then?

• 58:29Speaker 01

  A little bit, yeah. We did speak, we did also hopefully on, on, on the round, one addiction is, but it's kind of like, you don't allow yourself to believe it. Like, I feel like if you want to stop doing something, I feel like people think in their head, I can stop if I want to, but not knowing deep down, you probably can't.

• 58:53Steven Bartlett?

  Could you have stopped?

• 58:57Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's, I feel like it's fifty fifty. You could have stopped, but I feel like the thrill on it is kind of like, what keeps you going?

• 59:12Steven Bartlett?

  Because the FA, their sort of counterpoint to that was that there was periods where you, you didn't, you didn't gamble. So they were, they were saying that to the commission that, you know, it's not gambling addiction because there's parts of his journey where he's not gambling or he's betting on other things, for example.

• 59:27Steven Bartlett?

  Do you still gamble now?

• 59:29Speaker 01

  No.

• 59:30Steven Bartlett?

  Anything?

• 59:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 59:31Steven Bartlett?

  Any betting at all across any?

• 59:33Speaker 01

  No.

• 59:35Steven Bartlett?

  Has that required therapy or any sort of professional support?

• 59:38Speaker 01

  I think it's kind of being in the public eye. If I was to be like going into these places and these kind of things, I think it's more the embarrassment that I still continue this kind of thing.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  So I wouldn't allow myself and like you look back, you, I feel like you sit, take a backseat and look at all the money you've lost and what you could have went on and what, and especially now having people to provide for, it's kind of like, you can't be spending that money on this. It can go to here or like, just manage your money better, how I look at things and how I look at me. I foresee that as being naive.

• 1:00:29Steven Bartlett?

  We don't really get much information, do we, uh, growing up about gambling? Or really how to like, how to spend our money or tax, especially, I think about you guys as like young, you know, twenty year olds that are just, you know, playing football and then you become millionaires because you're good at it. It's kind of different for like my pursuit because I'm building a business. You have CFOs, you have finance people around you, you have controls, budgets, forecasts, P and Ls, all this stuff. So, you know, you're surrounded by like money minds and brains around you when you're building a business. But being a young twenty year old millionaire who, I'm presuming nobody gave you financial education.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  No, it's kind of like, like you said, yeah, being, having that much money at a tender age, it's kind of like,

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  what do I do with it? And I'm not a family that comes from money. So it's not like my parents could help me a lot with that. But they, they would have their say on some things, but it's like, you kind of have to try and just manage it yourself. And just assume doing this is the right thing.

• 1:01:35Steven Bartlett?

  You don't know what you don't know.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  Pretty much.

• 1:01:39Steven Bartlett?

  The bit of this case that I, that I was, that I was, I found difficult is the using someone else to do the bets. Because for me, that's, that points to like, in that he did know, I think that's what people would think. They'd look at that and go.

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  Of course, hundred percent.

• 1:01:52Steven Bartlett?

  Conceal it. Because I'm thinking your mum, your mum and dad ain't open your post at twenty seven years old. Like, my mum ain't gonna open my post.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  No, this was, this is when I was away.

• 1:01:59Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, you were younger, you were like twenty, you were young, in your twenties.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  So I know my post did go to my parents and I feel like, of course, your parents want to be knowing what's going on. If you're getting this letter through, that's, you're not paying this or like, like I said, seeing what you're spending your money on. And I feel like, because we're a tight family, my mum would worry about that. And there was actually times where she's opened it and she's kind of said some things about it.

• 1:02:27Steven Bartlett?

  And the FA had highlighted the text message you'd sent where you'd said to your mate, I can't have that one in my name.

• 1:02:33Steven Bartlett?

  What was the app I gambled on on your phone this time from text messages that they'd found? That's the bit that I struggled with was I was like, I wasn't sure there, but this chapter of your life has clearly been a big learning moment.

• 1:02:46Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. Like, looking back on what I've done, well, I changed some bits probably, but

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  it is what it is. And the manner I'm now continuing forward is kind of, it is different to what I was before.

• 1:03:01Steven Bartlett?

  Do you take, like, when we think about responsibility for our actions? What's, what, what responsibility do you take for all of this? Where you say, listen, this is, this is what I take responsibility for here. And this is also like, going back to a question I asked earlier about like, what do you wish someone had, had said to you? When you first did that, I don't know, those, those bets five, five, six, seven years ago. What's the responsibility you take? And what's the, what's the lesson you've taken from this process?

• 1:03:31Speaker 01

  I think the responsibility I'd take was, yeah, I was betting on myself to score first, which now you, I know you shouldn't be doing, which I take responsibility and I'll take

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  full responsibility for the punishment I'm getting now. So it would be kind of like, and what I tell my younger self around them kind of times, it's like, manage your money better. Don't get mixed in the wrong crowd, I say, and just, just don't follow fashion. Have your own, have your own mindset, uh, mind frame on

• 1:04:05Speaker 01

  what you should and shouldn't be doing. Or if you don't know, look more into it. And if that's what you really want to do, look more into it and what you can and can and can't do.

• 1:04:14Steven Bartlett?

  It's interesting because when they were deliberating your, your punishment, one of the things that came to mind is perception. And what it would, what the perception it would send to the rest of the, the game.

• 1:04:28Steven Bartlett?

  Do you think they, they made an example of you?

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  I feel so, yeah.

• 1:04:33Steven Bartlett?

  Do you think that's right?

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  I don't think it's right now, but.

• 1:04:38Steven Bartlett?

  Because you're a high profile Premier League player. Obviously, if you get away with doing something like this, this could, other players, low levels could also emulate it. So they've got an opportunity here to send a message.

• 1:04:48Speaker 01

  100%, 100%. And I feel like a lot of people think that in terms of,

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  if, no disrespect to lower leagues, but if I was, well, actually, we actually did look at some cases that was somewhat similar, somewhat worse, and their punishment wasn't like how mine is. I think the fact that they see opportunity, the fact that I'm playing in the Premier League doing well, sniff around England, it's kind of like, right, this is our chance to punish him. Then people know this is kind of the punishment you're looking at if you want to do what I done.

• 1:05:25Steven Bartlett?

  It's funny because I was actually surprised to read that in the, the analysis section of this document where it says, the perception of the impact of football betting on the integrity of the game is a key consideration when deciding on your sanction. Which does kind of suggest that they're quite intentional in making sure that they make an example of you. There are thereabouts in their words. And obviously you have a huge position of influence. So that's, that's key.

• 1:05:53Steven Bartlett?

  And then they submit, the FA suggested that you get 12 months ban as a suspension, I believe. And that was their final sanction. The commission didn't accept that.

• 1:06:05Steven Bartlett?

  Ordinarily, the commission would have imposed 15 months suspension had you not pled guilty to the charges, which lowered your sanction. And then also you've got another reduction in the sanction because of the findings from the doctor who found that you had a gambling addiction, which brought your sentence down to eight months. And you're fined £50,000.

• 1:06:27Steven Bartlett?

  It's interesting because, you know, I'm a huge football fan, so I want to see you play. And you're on such a roll. Brentford are on such a roll. So like, as a football fan, although you smashed United last year, like, it's so, it's so good to see like a young, black, English striker tearing up the game at its peak. It's gutting to see you out of the game. It is.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  And I feel like, like how I am and how people know how I stay, this is, this is nothing. I know for a fact I'll come back stronger than this. I'm better than I was before. Like, this is, gives me the hunger again to recharge and come back. On another, another level, like, like I said before earlier, no time to dwell on things, no time to dwell on things. And it's like, just when that first game comes and I can play, then it's not a ball game. It's on.

• 1:07:23Steven Bartlett?

  When you found out you, you, you were suspended for eight, eight months.

• 1:07:29Steven Bartlett?

  How did that feel? What's that like? Because you know you're in the peak of your powers right now, right?

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. It's, it's painful, but I feel like the hard part isn't kind of now. Because right now I'll be playing football matches and I can't be around the players on the football ground and things like this. And it's kind of like, okay, that's what you want to do. Punish me from there. But I feel like keeping me away from the ground, if I wasn't as strong as I was in my head, that would break some people. And I'll be talking about mental health and all these kind of things. And what's that kind of doing to a player that's not allowed in the environment, even though you can't play games, but keeping away from the training ground, knowing football's

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  their life and that's all they've done from such a young age. How is that going to help them at all?

• 1:08:24Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, this, this is, I completely agree with you. I think, I think the sanction itself is important because it does send a message and I agree with that. But the bit that I just struggle with is that can't train at the club. And we know as you, you point out there, like, mental health, keeping active is such an important thing, especially if you've been playing football since you were a kid and it's your purpose. It's what you know. So psychologically and physically, there's a, a real strong case to keep your, keep you active. And I've seen a lot of people have their say on this. A lot of people think, you know, you could have trained at the ground and then used that time to educate young players on, on gambling. That would have been useful. But to keep you out of the club, not allow you to train and to kind of push you out on your

• 1:09:06Steven Bartlett?

  own, it seems, doesn't feel like it's smart.

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  It doesn't, it doesn't add up with what, like the things they push forward, like.

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  Like we say, the whole football community is on, big on mental health than the FA go and do this and like, push me away from like my, the, the whole football environment. Like, by all means, it's not a, a place where I want people to feel sorry for me. Like, that's the last thing. That's the last thing I want and me as a person, people that know me would know that's not one, one thing I'm trying to achieve. But so that's what if somebody that's not as strong as me in their head, happens to be going through this kind of situation and their punishment is they're not allowed at the training ground. Like, that would break them. Like, right now, being, not being around the tra- uh, training ground.

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  It does hurt me, but I just know when I'm at the training ground, train harder, be ready for the, the game when I can play. But it's, yeah, it's, like I said, it's not a nice feeling and the whole purpose of not being allowed at the training ground is, it's baffling to me, but.

• 1:10:15Steven Bartlett?

  Do you have hard days, still?

• 1:10:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like everybody has hard days.

• 1:10:21Steven Bartlett?

  I mean, like with, through this process, has there been days where you, like your ups and your downs and difficult days where you start, you have low moments because you are away from football, the press is on top of you?

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel like I have a ha- hard hours, hard two hours kind of things, like in the mornings. I'd wake up, ah, can't be arsed today. But get in the shower, get active. When you're there working, it's kind of like out your head, as much you don't want to do it. You've seen the long one, that, that time I didn't want to get up, didn't want to, didn't want to put the work in. It's paying off now. Whereas if I'm saying ah tomorrow, and then tomorrow comes, I'll do it next day.

• 1:11:06Steven Bartlett?

  So you're still training?

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm ju- yeah, still keeping fit, so, still doing my own thing.

• 1:11:10Steven Bartlett?

  Working with a personal trainer?

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, a personal trainer, which is, which is good. And it's not like a lenient one, this one, one that pushes me, so. I feel like I, I've not got it good, but I've got the best people around me to keep me fit and keep me going. And like I said, my family is key. My family's the one that's, well, they're, they're the people that's helping me going as well and especially my children.

• 1:11:37Steven Bartlett?

  You're a mummy's boy.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:11:40Steven Bartlett?

  Sometimes in these moments, it's difficult for us, but it's harder to watch the impact has on our family, right?

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, a hundred percent. I feel like, like even when the whole thing was, it was like, there was allegations and the people like going into my mum's work and just saying certain things and

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  I'd be at a petrol station, they scream certain things and I'd be with my family and my children and people would just be like shouting dumb things out.

• 1:12:10Steven Bartlett?

  Well.

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  Just like, oh, you're putting, like shouting things like, oh, you're putting a ten on today's game or these kind of things or just silly immature things and how I am, I'm kind of hot headed. But especially when family are involved and my children are around, it's kind of like,

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  it's hard for me not to want to say something or do something or these kind of things. It's like going through that period.

• 1:12:42Speaker 01

  It's hard and people that you wouldn't normally speak to or my parents or family wouldn't normally speak to, they'd pop up and just be like, ah, what's happening with Ivan? So it's when the bad things come along, now you want to talk and find out what's going on. Whereas when I'm scoring goals or getting picked for England, you don't really want to say too much. But that's life and that's how people are and we don't miss them. We see them, we see the evil eyes, so it's.

• 1:13:14Steven Bartlett?

  Has this process been, has it illuminated things for you in certain areas of your life, certain people and some people that are there for you instead, you know, because even thinking about the gaffer, Thomas Frank, he's come to your defence multiple times, talking about how he disagrees with the way that it's been handled, the sanctions, and he thinks that you should be able to train with the team and be out there educating young kids, et cetera, et cetera. He disagrees with the decision that the commission made.

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  Not just him, Gareth Southgate as well.

• 1:13:44Steven Bartlett?

  Gareth Southgate, yeah. Talk sport, wouldn't he?

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I know. I spoke to him as well, but.

• 1:13:50Steven Bartlett?

  How does that feel then? What does that mean to you?

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  It feels good knowing I've got them behind me, obviously the England manager and my club manager backing me a hundred percent. It feels good and it gives me a bit of extra strength to make sure when I'm back, I'm firing and it gives me that bit of hunger. Not that I'm lacking it, but I feel like the extra boost to feel like, okay, it's on when I'm back kind of thing.

• 1:14:21Steven Bartlett?

  And the club standing by you in such a way, has that kind of cemented your loyalty a little bit to Brentford?

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel like, like I said earlier, I want a manager and a club to like really want me and put their arm around me. And I feel like throughout the whole situation, Brentford have done that, like even, even the players as well. I spoke to loads of them, they don't agree with it, but it is what it is and.

• 1:14:47Steven Bartlett?

  And your mum?

• 1:14:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's like, when I was like, we're going back to the tweet, when I said, when I pulled that tweet out, she was the first person that rang me and messaged me and said, listen, you don't need to do nothing. Just don't do no more, please. I've been saying how she's been sick for, she feels sick in her stomach for an hour long. Throughout the whole situation and putting it out there, she's just thinking it's gonna damage me, damage her and damage the family and things like this. So I just thought, okay, let me just do the talk on my feet and when I'm back and get, get the family. Well, they're not smiling, but happy, happy again. And I'm sure they can't wait, well, they can't wait till I see their son back on the pitch scoring goals.

• 1:15:36Steven Bartlett?

  Does she, does it mean the most to you to make her happy and to make her feel good?

• 1:15:40Speaker 01

  All my family, yeah. I feel like, like she always just texts me randomly and she's like, she always, I don't want to bother you. Sometimes I just check on what, I'm sitting on WhatsApp to wait for you to come online to know you're okay and alive and well. And that's just, that's how my mum is, like, it'll be sometimes, like my mum, she knows. And she does, she calls me random times, it'd be 12 at night or it'd be early doors. Just checking in, how's it going? Love you so much, this and that. But yeah, that's her favourite one, checking to see if I'm online on WhatsApp rather than pestering me in her eyes, but. So I think making them happy and making them smile as well.

• 1:16:26Speaker 01

  Is what gives me the thrill to do well.

• 1:16:29Steven Bartlett?

  Brentford fanbase?

• 1:16:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, strong, massive.

• 1:16:33Steven Bartlett?

  Showing you a lot of love as well.

• 1:16:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, everywhere I go, I get, I get love from the Brentford fans, so. That's good and that's key.

• 1:16:42Steven Bartlett?

  What's your, you're gonna get back to football and I can feel you've got a certain fire inside you.

• 1:16:49Speaker 01

  Yep. I think.

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  I just, not that I need to prove anybody wrong, but there's, there's a lot of haters and doubters out there thinking. He ain't gonna be the same man when he comes back. Actually, they're right, I'm gonna be a different man, I'll be even better than that, that guy that scored them goals before, so.

• 1:17:11Steven Bartlett?

  How do you know?

• 1:17:12Speaker 01

  Because I'm built different. My mentality is different. I'm not one of these, ah, he could have been a great player, hadn't he done this? I'm, I'm, I'm gonna go beyond that.

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  And it's, like I said, not a point to prove, but a point to prove to myself.

• 1:17:33Steven Bartlett?

  How do you ensure that happens? Like, what is it that, because I think about controllables, what is it that you can control to make sure? That you come back an even better player? Is it just training harder? Is it, what is it that you're?

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  It's training harder, but in my head, every time I step on a pitch, I'm, I'm thinking in my head, I'm gonna score today. I'm gonna score, I know I'm gonna score. When the chance comes, I'm gonna score. Because in the game, you, your bounce get a chance that you should be scoring. So in my head now, I'm thinking, right, when I do play and I do get that chance that I should be scoring, it has to be a goal, so it's gonna be a goal.

• 1:18:05Steven Bartlett?

  What if it's not?

• 1:18:06Speaker 01

  The next one will be a goal.

• 1:18:08Steven Bartlett?

  What if it's not?

• 1:18:09Speaker 01

  It will be.

• 1:18:12Speaker 01

  That'll be two goals.

• 1:18:14Steven Bartlett?

  Brentford is a fantastic team. I think of all the teams in the Premier League, if we talk about admiration, I really admire Brett Brighton at the moment, but Brentford, I absolutely think are brilliant, brilliant team. Really ton of admiration for them. There's a lot of people that are obviously linking you to other clubs and saying, oh, is he gonna join this Manchester United? All of that. How do you receive all of that? You know, all these links to, because everyone's looking for a striker. Strikers are like the hardest to find. Goal scorers in the Premier League, you've got Haaland, you've got Kane, he's gone. Now, now you're technically the second best striker that's currently in the league on paper. So, you know, these big clubs are going to come knocking. They're going to say, you know, Chelsea's got fucking unlimited money over here. United, we need a striker. How do you receive all of that?

• 1:18:58Speaker 01

  I mean, like from young, like I said, I don't let this all affect me. Obviously, you hear it all going on in the background, but my job is to keep training well when I get the chance in the games to keep scoring and doing well. But I think everybody wants to play at the top of the tree and not that Brentford aren't there. But I feel like playing for a big club, fighting for trophies and these kind of things, everybody wants to do. And if the chance was to come along, I think I'd be silly not to, not to look more into it, but

• 1:19:33Speaker 01

  I feel like, yeah, and the manager knows that I want to be playing at the highest possible, level, level possible. And whenever that time comes, then so be it. But I can't think my, my time at Brentford's been,

• 1:19:51Speaker 01

  been, been, been good. It's probably one of the best times in my career.

• 1:19:55Steven Bartlett?

  And that's a special club. Like they've just got something, they've got a culture there which is super special. So, you know, that culture you described will get the best out of you as a player for sure. So it's like you're great talent, great culture equals great results. It's like one plus one equals three.

• 1:20:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, no. Yeah, I like the next club I'll go to. If I was to move, it would be like the right club.

• 1:20:18Steven Bartlett?

  When you say the right club, you're not talking about Liverpool, are you? I heard you're a Liverpool fan.

• 1:20:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, Liverpool fan, a Liverpool fan. I feel.

• 1:20:24Steven Bartlett?

  You've been a Liverpool fan your whole life?

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've been Liverpool fan my whole life, but from young, I've liked, I've liked Arsenal, like watching Arsenal from how they play and the kind of how passionate fans are.

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  But yeah, Liverpool fan, Liverpool boy at heart.

• 1:20:43Steven Bartlett?

  So Liverpool at heart, love how Arsenal play, love their style.

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:48Steven Bartlett?

  Anything about Manchester United?

• 1:20:49Speaker 01

  I liked, I liked Bobertoff when he was there.

• 1:20:52Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  I liked watching United a lot when Bobertoff was there, so.

• 1:20:56Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, but we do actually need a striker, so I've actually got a contract here that Eric and Richard Arnold would have given me, so. Imagine, imagine. Now, listen, I hope you, I just wanna see you back playing again, because I think it's a gift to the Premier League, your talent. And also, when I look at your story, you didn't have a straight line that a lot of people have in football. You went up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down, and you persevered because the talent is, you can't argue with it. You can't argue with the talent. And so this whole gambling section of your life, it's a bit of a blip in there. It's a hurdle you've overcome and you've taken, taken your punishment.

• 1:21:37Steven Bartlett?

  You move on from that, you admit responsibility.

• 1:21:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:41Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah. And so now it becomes back again about the football.

• 1:21:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, like you said, the journey's been, it's been wild, it's been crazy. And if I was to read a book on myself, I'd say this guy's done a lot and been through a lot. And he's still fighting and he's still climbing to the top of the tree. How's he managing all that with everything that's going on?

• 1:22:05Steven Bartlett?

  What's the goal?

• 1:22:08Steven Bartlett?

  You know, if we, if we have this conversation again at the end of your career and we sit down here and we go, man, and you go down, that was a successful career, Steve. What happened?

• 1:22:18Speaker 01

  I wanna be playing for England and scoring goals. I don't wanna just be, oh, he played for England a couple of times. I wanna be the main man wherever I go and, and for England. I know they've got Harry Kane, that is probably one of the best strikers in the world, if not the best. So, and that's what I'm up against. So I need to get to that level.

• 1:22:46Speaker 01

  So it just takes working hard and keep keep fighting.

• 1:22:52Steven Bartlett?

  You have the Euros around the corner as well.

• 1:22:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's another that's another place I want to get to, which I do believe that in my head, I'm ready to get to, so.

• 1:23:02Steven Bartlett?

  And at club level, what are your ambitions there in football?

• 1:23:06Speaker 01

  Um, win, win, win trophies, win some silverware. I feel like.

• 1:23:13Speaker 01

  I feel like I want to play for.

• 1:23:17Speaker 01

  The highest, highest level possible, play for with.

• 1:23:22Speaker 01

  Play for a club that's, I'm loved that, not just one of.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  But I feel like, like with all my moves, I've not just gone to a club for whatever or money or whatever. I've gone, it's been the right step for me and I've achieved something every year, every year I've just got better and better.

• 1:23:45Steven Bartlett?

  You want to win the Premier League one day?

• 1:23:47Speaker 01

  That's, that's the aim, that's the aim. I want to win the World Cup also, I want to win trophies that's like, wow.

• 1:23:56Speaker 01

  And being from where I'm from, Northampton, not many people can achieve them things or be like, yeah.

• 1:24:06Speaker 01

  He's been at the World Cup, he's won the World Cup. And even then, like, my mum still lives in the same house.

• 1:24:12Steven Bartlett?

  Really?

• 1:24:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, she doesn't want to move. She likes being there and. People go one day, be like, yeah, Ivan's mum lives there. I'd do that now, but it'd be more of achievement. And I've won something like that and like, yeah, Ivan's mum's there. Ivan comes there all the time. I think that's kind of.

• 1:24:32Speaker 01

  Kind of how we are, how I am. And you can see like, my mum, she doesn't want to move into some big house. She feels safe and comfy. At the house where she's at and that shows that I have no, no choice but to be grounded.

• 1:24:47Steven Bartlett?

  And you've got three kids as well.

• 1:24:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, three little boys.

• 1:24:49Steven Bartlett?

  Do you think about them? Do you think about what, the legacy you want to leave that they're going to grow up and learn about? Does that cross your mind a lot?

• 1:24:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, it, yeah, it does.

• 1:25:00Speaker 01

  I want to leave a legacy that they don't have no pressure on their shoulders to walk into.

• 1:25:06Speaker 01

  I just wanted to, whether there is a football or whatever industry they look to go into, which obviously I would wanna say is football.

• 1:25:14Speaker 01

  But whatever they, whatever they do, I want them to be successful and be like, be strong like my children. I feel like I'd want them, I do want them to have the same upbringing I had. Like, I wouldn't put them to that private school and all these things because I don't wanna just give them everything. I want them to have to work for certain things.

• 1:25:35Steven Bartlett?

  What advice would you give them about how to, how to navigate? Say they, they do go into football, all three of them. And they say, they come to you one day, they say, Dad, listen, just got a call from the biggest club in the world, Manchester United.

• 1:25:48Steven Bartlett?

  And I'm gonna, I'm gonna accept it and go, go to Manchester United playing to Eric. I need some advice, Dad. I'm, you know, I'm on my way tomorrow. What advice can you give me, Dad?

• 1:25:58Speaker 01

  Have the mentality as you're the best player on the pitch. You might not be, but having that mentality will help you play better.

• 1:26:09Speaker 01

  And just have the hunger. If you haven't got the hunger or the drive, you'll step behind already. I'd say like, also, attitude is key.

• 1:26:22Speaker 01

  Because I'll get you a long way. Not just in football, it'll work in life.

• 1:26:29Steven Bartlett?

  You know, when you did this, this tweet, famous tweet, I'll speak soon with no thought. I understand that came from a place of anger, like a bit defensive, whatever. Mood settles, your mum texts you, you're like, okay, maybe this is not gonna help the situation. There was a lot you wanted to say, right? You wanted to talk specifically about the allegations. You've decided now, from what you're saying, that it's not worth it for you to like, go in and dispute things and say this, that and the other's not true. But was there anything that you do wanna say to like the football community or just to the world generally? As a message, when you tweeted that, like, outside of like the, the stuff where we're like a bit bitter and hurt because of everything that's going on? And people are attacking you, whatever. Is there anything else you wanted to say? Because I just wanna give you a chance just to.

• 1:27:11Speaker 01

  Not really. Like you said, most of it come from anger and it's kind of like everybody's against me kind of thing. But with that, it's kind of like, I was more worried on people like thinking how I am. How I am as a person, like what they read and what they hear, rather than how I actually am. But the, the people around me, friends, family, these are the people I should be worried about. They know how I am. Why do I need to explain to Bob down the road how I actually am? I'm probably never gonna see him again. So it doesn't matter that. Why am I explaining that? And why am I going out there to give it like a back and forth?

• 1:27:53Speaker 01

  Like, I don't need to do that. And it doesn't benefit me. It just benefits him in trying to get more reaction from me. So, like you said, it definitely was out of anger, anger kind of moment. It's kind of like, all right, let me say this and let me say that, not knowing the knock-on effect it could, it could have.

• 1:28:17Speaker 01

  So it's, it's not, I don't need to try and prove nobody wrong or prove nobody right. It's just.

• 1:28:25Speaker 01

  Focus on myself, family and do what I do best, which is playing well and scoring goals.

• 1:28:33Steven Bartlett?

  Speaking with your feet.

• 1:28:34Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:28:36Steven Bartlett?

  I did want to talk to you about one last thing. You did a tweet as well about a DM someone sent you.

• 1:28:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:41Steven Bartlett?

  Someone had DM'd you calling you a black C-word.

• 1:28:47Steven Bartlett?

  And you posted the tweet. Subsequently, you stopped taking the knee during, at the start of Premier League games and such. Racism in football. Do you, do you still receive racial abuse still today?

• 1:29:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:01Steven Bartlett?

  You do?

• 1:29:01Speaker 01

  If I was to post everything I've received that's been racist, I'd have easily.

• 1:29:10Speaker 01

  Around hundred messages, easy just reel off there, there, there.

• 1:29:16Steven Bartlett?

  Has that increased since the sanctions were made against you from the commission?

• 1:29:22Speaker 01

  No, because I feel like most of it's just betting rubbish that I get, like people are saying, but I feel like most of it's from playing a game and someone bet on you or you haven't scored and then they come on come for you for like these kind of things or the fantasy league, yeah, football league. Like you don't get enough points and now come at you like this or you'll score to lose that, but also just things like this.

• 1:29:49Steven Bartlett?

  Why did you stop taking the knee?

• 1:29:51Speaker 01

  Because I feel like it's, it's a token gesture. It's not really, it's lost its purpose.

• 1:29:57Speaker 01

  And like, you can see like before games, some people like run off with the, oh, the knee, forgot about it. Like the purpose isn't there no more. I don't think that's doing nothing in the game to help stop these kind of things from happening.

• 1:30:13Steven Bartlett?

  More needs to be done for sure, for sure.

• 1:30:15Speaker 01

  One hundred percent.

• 1:30:16Steven Bartlett?

  All over the world, not just in the UK, but we obviously saw what happened to Vinicius Junior as well in the, in the La Liga. Um, and it does, does feel like if there was harsher action taken, then a lot of this stuff wouldn't be happening, even from the platforms and, and also from the police, um.

• 1:30:34Speaker 01

  You know, I think, yeah, most, most, well, some of them are from abroad and it's kind of like, if it's not in the UK, they can't do nothing about it.

• 1:30:41Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 1:30:43Speaker 01

  And I'm like, okay, so what? You just keep sending from wherever.

• 1:30:48Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 1:30:49Speaker 01

  But yeah, it's, we can't really do nothing. It's not, it's not, it's, okay, so it's fine then. Basically you're saying it's, it's fine.

• 1:30:56Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:57Speaker 01

  So what, what did you do?

• 1:31:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel like he's lost his purpose, personally anyway. And I feel like it's kind of like puppets. The people at the top were kind of like, let's try this. Well, let's do this. Keep people quiet for a bit. Just do that and be trying.

• 1:31:19Speaker 01

  It's not trying.

• 1:31:20Steven Bartlett?

  You're counting down the days now?

• 1:31:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I literally, I'm just like.

• 1:31:24Steven Bartlett?

  Really?

• 1:31:24Speaker 01

  At Christmas, yeah. I'll count the days, counting down the days or two. I can train if you're around the boys, because like being in football prison at the moment. When I'm around the boys, I think it won't get easier. Well, it'll get a little bit easier, but not the same as like you train a whole week hard. At the end of the week, it's no like end goal or the reward. You're not playing a match.

• 1:31:51Steven Bartlett?

  And then, is it January you can play?

• 1:31:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, January the seventeenth.

• 1:31:53Steven Bartlett?

  You can train again?

• 1:31:54Speaker 01

  I can play with matches.

• 1:31:55Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, you can play matches?

• 1:31:56Speaker 01

  Yes, seventeenth of September, I can, I can train, so.

• 1:32:01Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, September you can train and then?

• 1:32:03Speaker 01

  September I can train, yeah.

• 1:32:04Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, and then December?

• 1:32:04Speaker 01

  Being in a club around the boys.

• 1:32:05Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, so not long?

• 1:32:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, not long, not long.

• 1:32:08Steven Bartlett?

  Less than a month?

• 1:32:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, it feels like ages though.

• 1:32:11Steven Bartlett?

  And then you can play in January. That's going to be a very big game. A lot of people are going to be watching that.

• 1:32:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:15Steven Bartlett?

  Do you, do you feel pressure?

• 1:32:17Speaker 01

  No, I don't feel, I, I, I thrive off pressure. When it's like, surely you can't do that. He's not going to be able to do it. And that's what, like, the, the pressure was, like we spoke about after the playoff final. And we got a penalty. After the game, everyone was like, you must have been scared. Like, if you miss, you probably could have, like, you could have, probably could have lost. It was massive. I was thinking, no, I can't wait. Like, I knew for a fact I was scoring that penalty, one hundred percent. Because it was the pressure and like the reward after it gives you a bigger chance to jump in the Premier League. And more money for the family, so.

• 1:33:02Steven Bartlett?

  Are you trying to prove people right or trying to prove people wrong? What matters more to you?

• 1:33:09Speaker 01

  Proving people wrong, so I can have a little dig on. Yeah, I like that. I like when I see certain tweets and when I do something, I come back to it and just like, have a little comment and dig at the person and there's just lots of words that's like, you're right, you win.

• 1:33:26Steven Bartlett?

  You been taking names throughout this process, just like, you know, this pundit said this, this person.

• 1:33:30Speaker 01

  Oh, I mean, there's loads of pundits that say loads of things. It's all opinions, but when I come back to school and I'm sure they'll go back into the bush and backpedal on what they say.

• 1:33:43Steven Bartlett?

  We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're going to leave it for. So they wrote a question for you here in this diary. The question been left for you is,

• 1:33:55Steven Bartlett?

  when have you most had to face your fears?

• 1:34:03Speaker 01

  Probably the ban.

• 1:34:07Speaker 01

  Because I think loads of things go through your head. It's like, like I said, from having football at such a young age,

• 1:34:16Speaker 01

  not knowing if, there's loads of things that go through your head.

• 1:34:19Steven Bartlett?

  Like what?

• 1:34:21Speaker 01

  How you're going to cope with things. At the time, I was kind of like, not wary, I feel like I'm a confident person, but going out in certain places, the topic is going to be about the whole scandal that's going on. People are going to talk about it, but with me, it's like, do they want to talk about it? They're thinking, do I want to talk about it? I'm not scared in a way, but it's kind of like, it's an awkward kind of meeting kind of thing.

• 1:34:49Steven Bartlett?

  It's that elephant in the room.

• 1:34:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it comes to the point where it's like, they'll say something like, ah, I bet you can't do that. And it's kind of like, oh, that kind of thing. But I'm like, yeah, what's done is done. Like you could talk about it, don't feel like, then they talk about it, then it's cleared. So I feel like not knowing what people are thinking about you, not knowing what people want to kind of talk to you.

• 1:35:13Speaker 01

  Not knowing if you're going to be fit when you come back or not knowing what you're going to do whilst you're off. Loads of things go into your head and it's like.

• 1:35:23Steven Bartlett?

  It hasn't crossed your mind you might like lose your form or something?

• 1:35:26Speaker 01

  That actually did. Yeah, it did at the time, but like, I know I can get myself in goal scoring positions. So I don't feel like.

• 1:35:36Speaker 01

  That that would be such a big issue, but it does cross your mind like, what if I don't score within the first five games, six games? You're gonna think the world's ending kind of thing, but yeah, I think that was the fear of these kind of things, not knowing what's next kind of thing.

• 1:35:53Steven Bartlett?

  And as the days have passed, it's got easier, right?

• 1:35:56Speaker 01

  It's got easier in ways, but it's got harder in like.

• 1:35:59Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, okay, good.

• 1:36:01Speaker 01

  Easier than like, sooner we round the boys and that's kind of like, my head's fine now, I'm at the club. Doing what I do best and enjoy, but then it's kind of like, at the end of the week, I can't play games whilst the game was kind of like.

• 1:36:16Steven Bartlett?

  It's like torture watching it.

• 1:36:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's torture, like, I hate watching games when I should be on the pitch.

• 1:36:24Steven Bartlett?

  Do you think you deserve the punishment you got?

• 1:36:28Speaker 01

  Um, I mean. If that's what the rules are, then so be it, that's the punishment I should have got, but looking on the other cases. And the fact that they were lower leagues. It's kind of like, why did he get that and I got this? Because he's there and I'm here?

• 1:36:52Speaker 01

  But now I feel like, if this is a punishment for doing what I done, to make that, make sure the next person gets that. Make sure the next person gets that, like, make it all.

• 1:37:02Steven Bartlett?

  Fair.

• 1:37:02Speaker 01

  Fair and correct.

• 1:37:05Speaker 01

  But, but I don't think it was fair, but it is what it is. I can't see, I can't change nothing now, I can't. There's no point me focusing on.

• 1:37:21Speaker 01

  If it's fair or not, because that doesn't help no situation.

• 1:37:25Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, I think it's possible to take responsibility for your actions and say, I did that. But also to think that it was unfair because they, I think, maybe rightly so, they are, they are making, making an example of you. Because those lower league players, it would never send a message, would it?

• 1:37:39Speaker 01

  They're correct.

• 1:37:40Steven Bartlett?

  So with the big wages and the big status and the popularity and all the upsides comes this other thing, which is like. Bigger sanctions, bigger publicity, bigger.

• 1:37:50Speaker 01

  It's more of a talking point and more of a story, but.

• 1:37:53Steven Bartlett?

  And I'll tell you what, you go out there and you start bagging goals.

• 1:37:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:58Steven Bartlett?

  Ain't nobody gonna be talking about anything else.

• 1:38:00Speaker 01

  That's, that's another reason I want to be scoring goals, so. To put things right and let people talk about my goal scoring rather than rubbish past.

• 1:38:12Steven Bartlett?

  I think you, I think you're gonna, I think you're gonna go back to Brentford and I think you're gonna fucking tear it up. Um, because I sense a real deep drive in you that I've not seen in many people. Um, a real sense of like self-belief and conviction, even what you said about the penalties there, like I played at Soccer Aid and they came over to me and asked me if I wanted a penalty and I went to the back of the, I went to the back of the group. I swerved that so hard. This year, I played this year, I got injured before the game at Old Trafford, but I'm playing in training and we had to do a penalty shootout. Poch was the manager and um, I just said to myself, Steve, step forward and take one. And this was to decide who got which dressing room. I took one, I scored it and then the next day I pulled my, pulled my hamstring, got a grade three tear. But I was proud of myself for stepping up and doing it.

• 1:38:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's amazing. I think if you have in your head, I'm gonna do this.

• 1:38:57Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 1:38:58Speaker 01

  You have a better chance of, of thinking, what if this, there's no point thinking that. Like even with, yeah, back yourself a hundred percent, like even with strikers I've played with, like especially strikers I play with now. Like, cause he's, I'll say, I'll say his name, Brian, cause he knows, he's like my little brother. I said to him like, when he misses a chance, he's, he gets so angry with himself. Saying, bro, it's fine. You, you're not a robot. You can miss chances. When the next chance comes, you'll score. And he, he's, he's got a lot better at that and he's been scoring, so.

• 1:39:35Speaker 01

  I think just, well, on things.

• 1:39:38Steven Bartlett?

  But you've got a big chance coming up, January.

• 1:39:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:39:40Steven Bartlett?

  And I hope you score.

• 1:39:42Speaker 01

  I will, I know, I, I know, I know, I know I do well. And like you said, this is just another hurdle in my bumpy road, but it's all good. It could be worse.

• 1:39:54Steven Bartlett?

  Ivan, thank you. Thank you for, um, thank you for the time. Thank you for the inspiration you've given me. Um, I feel like I understand you. Feel like I understand you and listen, we all make mistakes in life. I think it's really important. We all, we've all made mistakes. I make so many mistakes. I think it's, yours are obviously more publicly broadcast because of who you are and you're at the top of the game. You're the peak of your powers, but um. I think it's important, as you said, that you you take responsibility for it, you move on and you let the football do the talking. And I think that's exactly, exactly what you have done. And that's what I'm really excited to see from you going forward. As I said, because you're special. You've got a very special talent. You've got a very special mentality and a very special talent to match it. And we can't let that go to waste. So we need to.

• 1:40:39Speaker 01

  It won't go to waste for sure. Some of the people around me, they won't allow it to go to waste, so.

• 1:40:45Steven Bartlett?

  Good. Thank you so much for your time, bro. It means a lot to me that you came here and spoke to me and I'm a I'm a big fan and I really do hope you end up at Manchester United one day.

• 1:40:55Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me. Thanks. Thanks. It's been good. It's been good to talk through things and

• 1:41:00Speaker 01

  maybe this can help the next person if they was to think twice on doing certain things or maybe to open up about certain things. So, yes, probably it's probably easy. It's good. Thanks for having me, like I said.