Jocko Underground: Should Coaches Be Able To Date Students? | In a Funk? Here's What To Do

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 141, sitting here with Echo Charles, who is about to ask me some questions from everyone.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:09Jocko Willink?

  Well, everyone that's a member of the Jocko Underground. If you remember, you can send questions, we will answer them.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 0:17Jocko Willink?

  So, let's get into it, man. Who we got?

• 0:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, first course. All right, hey Jocko Echo, thanks for providing insight and value to my life. It goes a long way. My question for you both is, how can I restore trust in someone for whom I have shown little to no respect for their time, for context? For context, I just purchased my first firearm with my brother's help and made plans with him to go shooting on that same evening. Long story short, even though he recommended I go earlier than I planned to be on time to our arranged meeting, I finished a different task first, thinking that surely it would not take long for my background check to clear and to get everything I need from the gunshot. He waited, he waited for me at a predetermined spot for over an hour before he finally left.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  So, this whole thing took longer than he thought, basically.

• 1:09Speaker 01

  Nothing went as I hoped, once I got there, and he didn't pick up when I called him. I went to see him later that night, and he said he wished I would value his time and that he saw it coming from a mile away, which tells me it's certainly not the first time I've done this with him. I take full responsibility for this, and no, I'm the one in the wrong. I want to fix it, but I'm unsure how I can rebuild that trust. Thanks in advance.

• 1:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. I mean, out of the gate, obviously, own it, apologize for it. I hope you already did that. Explain that you know it was wrong. Explain that you know you wasted his time. Explain that you know it is disrespectful. Not on a small level, but in a big level. Taking an hour away from some human being's life. You know it's a habit. Explain that you know it's a habit that you have. Explain that you will change it.

• 2:07Jocko Willink?

  Uh, repay him, which means you tell him that you are standing by to support him. Meaning you will mow, you'll give, you're gonna give him that hour of time back at least, probably 3X. Give him three hours of your time. Mow the lawn for him. Dude, I'm coming to mow your lawn. Takes an hour? Cool, I got it. Uh, rebuild, re- repair the fence by the driveway that got hit. You'll be over there. You're gonna go to Home Depot yourself. You're gonna come over there. You're with your own tools. You're not gonna go freaking jack up his tools, right? Cause we don't want you people touching our tools. Uh, you're gonna go replace it, whatever, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna go there.

• 2:49Jocko Willink?

  And repay him that time. Give it back to him. Cause you stole it from him. A thief. Time thief. Now you gotta repay.

• 2:58Jocko Willink?

  Then, the, the other thing that's really offensive about this.

• 3:03Jocko Willink?

  And what probably bothers him as much as the wasted time.

• 3:08Jocko Willink?

  Is that you didn't freaking listen to what he said. He knew it was gonna take longer. He told you it was gonna take you longer. He knows how purchasing a firearm works. He's been through the background check nine times for the, for his other nine firearms.

• 3:24Jocko Willink?

  And you just thought to yourself, I already know better. Like if Echo tells me, hey dude, oh, you're gonna edit a video. And it's this video, it's good, it's gonna be a 20 second video and you're gonna edit it with these various assets. It's gonna take you two hours and I go, no, it won't. Like, that is just not listening.

• 3:41Jocko Willink?

  That is your ego. So your ego flared up in this whole scenario too.

• 3:48Jocko Willink?

  And like I said, that ego activity is at least as big a part of the problem as being late.

• 3:57Jocko Willink?

  It's a manifestation of the two. It's probably the bigger problem. So do some, you, you gotta, you gotta put your ego in check. You gotta listen to what he has to say. You gotta put trust in him. You gotta treat him with respect. You gotta allow him to influence you and you gotta care about his time and his life.

• 4:17Jocko Willink?

  And in order to do those things, you want to rebuild that relationship, you got to give those things, listen, trust, influence, respect and care. And if you rebuild these things over time, you can get them back. He owes you nothing right now, by the way, he doesn't owe you trust. He doesn't, when you say, when you move your mouth and words come out,

• 4:37Jocko Willink?

  no one has to listen to you. Words don't mean anything, not when you've, not when you've disappointed on multiple occasions in the past. So just change your, change your way of being. By the way, your brother is close enough to you to actually tell you this. Most people that you've done this to, they don't even tell you, they're just like, oh, I don't want to hang out with the freaking Fred anymore. Cause he shows up late and I'm just don't, I'm done. So that's what we're doing, man. Pay him back the time. Mow that lawn, fix that fence, replace the water heater, don't touch his tools, bring your own.

• 5:14Jocko Willink?

  And you'll be all good, man. It'll take about probably three to six months because he's your brother, he's a little bit more forgiving. What, because I, how long would it take for your brother to forgive you? Echo Charles for this behavior?

• 5:25Speaker 01

  I don't think he'd care. Well, they didn't know if I was a offend, a repeat offender kind of scenario and he's and he's legitimately pissed and bro, that I'll tell you right now, that little tactic right there, let me get, pay him back his time by doing him like some kind of big favor. If it's just out of the blue being done for you is a, that's a legit black belt move right there. I never would have thought of that, but that was a good, that's a good one. Um, there's some nuance to that one as well, because let's say if it was just your other friend. Some people, they're like, bro, don't want you mowing my lawn. You gotta think of something a little bit more creative or whatever. But yeah, that seems perfect.

• 6:00Jocko Willink?

  Somebody wants to come over and mow my lawn, I don't care. Come and get it.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:04Jocko Willink?

  Come and get it. You know what I'm saying? You want to pull some weeds?

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:08Jocko Willink?

  Let's go. I don't care if you're, you know what I mean? Be like all day.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I dig it. Yeah, that's the move. But how long would he take to forgive me? Um, one lawnmower.

• 6:18Jocko Willink?

  Easy.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  No doubt. Okay.

• 6:19Jocko Willink?

  Forgiven. Yeah.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  And then it's.

• 6:20Jocko Willink?

  What if he was a habitual scenario?

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then put it this way, if if put it this way, if I always did that, then I did it again. And then I said, oh, mow your lawn again. You know, kind of like that's our new routine. And then he'd be like, Brad, no, no, not obviously no. But if it was like, if I showed anything, any reliable um, evidence that, hey, I'm kind of turning over a legitimate new leaf. Um, yeah, he'd forgive immediately.

• 6:43Jocko Willink?

  For sure. I'm gonna say three months.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 6:46Jocko Willink?

  If this is a developed pattern.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:48Jocko Willink?

  It's gonna take three months, you know, because if this was a non, if it was a non relative, six months. Takes a while to regain regain trust is a hard thing, especially make somebody wait an hour, Rampest.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, that may, and that makes sense too, because, oh, yeah, actually, you might be right, because, you know, some people, they have a reputation for something that you really don't like when they do this to you, essentially, you know? And, you know, in their mind, they're like, I'm not doing anything to anyone. Maybe how I am, if they think about it at all, you know? But once you build that reputation, it's always on your mind. You're kind of preceding it like precedes you that reputation, you know? So like, let's say, I don't know, somebody's like super selfish, right? Like, let's say they're just a selfish person, otherwise a great person to you, and you have a good relationship, but they're a selfish person. And you've they've already established that as a relationship or as a reputation. Now, everything they do is selfish in your mind. See what I'm saying?

• 7:42Speaker 01

  So for them to be like, hey, I was being selfish, like, let me do this for you. I promise I won't be selfish anymore. You're right. I'm not gonna be like immediate. Okay, you know, I would be like, hmm, we'll see about that, you know, and maybe three months. You might be right, maybe more. I don't know. But it depends on the relationship for sure.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Good tactic, though. I like that. I might use that.

• 8:01Jocko Willink?

  Payback time.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it's almost like, it's like a little fun thing, too, you know, because like if like, you know, you have a brother and he's like, hey, I'll mow your lawn for me. That's my bad. I'm gonna give you your time back. I'll mow your lawn. You'd be like, it's kind of like you're my little servant for a second.

• 8:15Jocko Willink?

  You might even get out there and be like, hey, you missed a spot.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, you can have some fun with it. Yeah, exactly. Right, man. So that might be a good technique. Just don't overuse it. I would I would think. Like I said, if that's a new routine, I don't know.

• 8:25Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  Next question. Dear Jocko. I wanted to know your thoughts on athletes slash students. It's a jujitsu scenario, uh, dating their coaches. I'm 28 year old, I'm a 28 year old female who has been training at, at an adult martial arts gym for a few years. And noticed that one of my male coaches, who is almost 10 years older than me, began to express romantic interest toward me.

• 8:49Jocko Willink?

  You said this is jujitsu. How do you know this is jujitsu?

• 8:52Speaker 01

  Oh, I just, yeah, I'm just assuming.

• 8:54Jocko Willink?

  I'm just saying, I don't think it's jujitsu, cause I think we would have heard jujitsu, but we heard martial arts gym.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Okay. Yeah.

• 9:01Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're actually, actually you're right. This could be kinda any scenario where there was, where there's.

• 9:06Jocko Willink?

  I think it's just a martial arts academy of some kind. I think it was jujitsu, given our connection with jujitsu, it would have said jujitsu.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're right.

• 9:15Jocko Willink?

  Right?

• 9:16Speaker 01

  You're correct.

• 9:16Jocko Willink?

  So I don't think it's a jujitsu school.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 9:18Jocko Willink?

  These things happen across the board, but I just wanted to clarify that.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would imagine the dynamics are similar across the board anyway.

• 9:26Jocko Willink?

  That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Same dynamics, similar dynamics.

• 9:29Speaker 01

  Okay. So athletes, students, we'll say. Okay. So this teacher began to express romantic interest towards me. He's 10 years older. At first his actions were more subtle, such as in quote unquote innocent flirting and quote unquote subtle touching. But when he became more direct in expressing his interests. Oh, or sorry, but then he became more, uh, direct in expressing his interests. He's a, he is a fantastic coach and great in his field, but I politely declined because the idea of everything felt a bit uncomfortable. While we are both adults, I can't help shake the feeling that dating your coach is a bad idea. I wonder whether it could lead to.

• 10:05Jocko Willink?

  So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jacood underground.com and subscribe and we're doing this. We're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast, which will remain as is free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you.

• 10:46Jocko Willink?

  More control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So, thank you. It's jockounderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.