Single at Heart: What if You Don't Need Someone Else to “Complete” You | Bella DePaulo, PhD

Bizarre fact, if you tell people you’re genuinely happy being single, they don’t believe you. You, in fact, may be among the doubters when it comes to your single-at-heart friends. Bella DePaulo has spent more than three decades studying what happens when someone is genuinely, unapologetically happy being single, and one thing keeps showing up in her data. People don't believe them. In studies where participants read identical biographies, differing only in one line, single or married, the single people who said they were happy were assumed to be exaggerating. The married people were taken at their word. Bella is a social psychologist (Ph. D., Harvard) and the author of Single at Heart: The Power, Freedom, and Heart-Filling Joy of Single Life https://amzn.to/4pWgUQC. Her TEDx talk on what no one tells you about single people has been watched more than 1.8 million times, and The Atlantic has called her America's foremost thinker and writer on the single experience. She's been writing the Living Single blog at Psychology Today since 2008, and she founded the Foundation for the Empowerment of Single People. In this conversation, Jonathan and Bella dig into what her research, drawn from more than 20,000 people across over 100 countries, actually shows about who thrives alone, who doesn't, and why the cultural story about both gets it backwards. In this one, you'll hear about the single sentence Bella clipped from a newspaper column in 1992 that started her whole body of work. You'll hear why she believes solitude and loneliness are separated by exactly one thing, not personality, not introversion, but choice. You'll hear the surprising story of what actually happened to single-at-heart people during pandemic lockdown, when isolation should have driven them straight into relationships. You'll hear why married people tend to become more insular over time, and what that quietly costs them later in life. And you'll hear the real story behind a bike accident, a hospital, and forty-nine people who showed up. If you've ever loved your own company more than you're supposed to admit, or if you've ever wondered whether your relationships would survive without one person at the center of them, this conversation will change how you think about both. You can find Bella at: Website https://belladepaulo.com/ | Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bellasingleatheart | Episode Transcript https://www.goodlifeproject.com/podcast/solitude-singlehood-connection-bella-depaulo Next week, we're sitting down with bestselling novelist Jodi Picoult to talk about how she steps inside the minds of people whose lives look nothing like her own, and why that kind of empathy might be one of the most undervalued skills we have. Midlife Design Lab: I'm opening up an intimate retreat with me and a small, curated group in Boulder, CO (Oct 24-25, 2026), followed by 3 months of virtual group coaching. A few weeks back, I shared something I'd been building for myself, and the response blew me away, so spots are limited and I expect them to fill fast. If this calls to you, apply here https://jonathanfields.substack.com/p/midlife-design-lab-update-and-invitation?open=false#%C2%A7midlife-design-lab-immersion. Check out our sponsors and resources: Visit Our Sponsor Page https://www.goodlifeproject.com/sponsors/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jonathan Fields?

  So bizarre fact, if you tell people you're genuinely happy being single, many won't believe you. In fact, they'll often call you a liar. And if not to your face, then behind your back. And if you fight them on it, they'll tell you you're lying to yourself. And by the way, if you are a coupled person, you may in fact, be among the doubters when it comes to your single at heart friends. Can you really be genuinely deeply satisfied with your life without a partner? That's what we're digging into today with Harvard trained researcher Bella DePaulo, author of Single at Heart: The Power of Freedom and Heart Filling Joy of Single Life.

• 0:40Jonathan Fields?

  Bella has spent more than three decades studying what happens when someone is genuinely, unapologetically happy being single. And here's a little bit of a sneak peek, one thing that just keeps showing up in the data. People just don't believe them. This data is wild. She'll dive into it. In this conversation, you'll also discover why when people are shown identical descriptions of a single person or a married person, they assume the single one is exaggerating their happiness. We'll talk about how one single sentence clipped from a newspaper in 1992, set off three decades of research. We'll explore what actually separates a nourishing solitude from a harmful loneliness, and it isn't a personality thing.

• 1:24Jonathan Fields?

  We'll explore why married people tend to actually grow more isolated over time, and what that quietly costs them years later. And how people who focus more on finding the ones, not the one, often end up living more connected, enjoyable lives. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. And we'll jump right in after this short break.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One Bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com/bank. Capital One, N.A., Member FDIC.

• 2:25Speaker 02

  State Fair food is getting smaller and pricier.

• 2:28Speaker 03

  We'll have room for fried cookies.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  Okay, you never overspend on food. What's your deal?

• 2:33Speaker 04

  What's his deal? He went to Metro and got $450 in value on the new Samsung Galaxy 837 5G for free, and no activation fees.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  Free phone? Oh, sign me up.

• 2:44Speaker 04

  Get that more for your money feeling, only on Metro by T-Mobile.

• 2:47Speaker 05

  Bring your number and activate $40 period plan. $450 based on device discount, waived activation fee. Not available if with Metro T-Mobile in the past 180 days.

• 2:58Jonathan Fields?

  This episode is brought to you by Choiceology, an original podcast from Charles Schwab, hosted by Katie Milkman, an award-winning behavioral scientist, and author of the bestselling book, How to Change. Choiceology is a show about the psychology and economics behind our decisions. Hear true stories from Nobel laureates, authors, athletes, and everyday people about why we do the things we do. Listen to Choiceology at schwab.com/podcast, or wherever you listen. So let's take a step back in time. December 17, 1992, you clipped one sentence out of a newspaper. The line was, and tell me if I'm getting this right,

• 3:42Jonathan Fields?

  remember that one is a whole number. And that started for you, kind of a secret folder. What was set in motion at this moment?

• 3:51Speaker 06

  Yes, so that was from an advice column that was published in my local newspaper. And the person who wrote into the advice columnist said that she was recently widowed, and Christmas was coming up, and she was just so distraught that she didn't understand how she could ever enjoy Christmas again. And the advice columnist wrote a long answer to her, and the sentence I underlined was, remember that one is a whole number. Now, that was not because I didn't think I was a whole person, because I was single.

• 4:35Speaker 06

  But it was interesting to me that somebody would need to be reassured that if they're single, they're a whole person. And that started me off into thinking about all the different ways in which single people are just assumed to be sad and lonely, and how that didn't fit my own life story.

• 5:04Jonathan Fields?

  So I want to dive into this beautiful and deep exploration of what you describe as a single at heart.

• 5:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 5:14Jonathan Fields?

  And how that's also different than a lot of other terms that sometimes we wrap around the word single.

• 5:19Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 5:20Jonathan Fields?

  Widen the lens, tell me a little bit about you, and really your personal journey.

• 5:25Speaker 06

  Yeah, so I'm 72. I've been single my whole life, by which I mean, I've never been married. I don't have kids. I live alone, all very happily. And I did have some romantic relationships when I was very young, because I thought that's what I was supposed to do. And I have no horror stories from my dating life. You know, when I think back to those men, I still kind of smile. I kind of like them, but that wasn't my life. And in fact, even though I liked these guys and had a nice time with them,

• 6:04Speaker 06

  when those relationships ended, I felt relief and almost joy that I got to go back to my one true life, my single life. And that's what felt authentic to me. That's who I felt that I really was. And for a long time, I thought that maybe that would change. Because, you know, as I grew older, other people around me are looking for a partner, or they're settling in with someone. And I thought, well, maybe I'm just slow in getting there.

• 6:46Speaker 06

  And I thought, well, maybe like wanting to get married was like getting bitten by a bug, and I hadn't gotten bitten yet. And after a while, I realized, no self. This is who you are. You are never going to want that life. And once I realized that, it was transformational, because there was no holding back. There was no thinking like, oh, well, maybe I should wait a few years to buy a house, or, you know, maybe I should wait about this or that and just see what happens. No, this is who I am.

• 7:25Speaker 06

  And then, once I understood that, then I could totally invest in my single life and become my true to myself.

• 7:40Jonathan Fields?

  You coined this phrase, "single at heart."

• 7:44Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 7:45Jonathan Fields?

  What's the difference between somebody who's single, or, and you can probably append a dozen different, like, words before "single" or after "single," and someone who's "single at heart"? What are you trying to tease out here?

• 8:00Speaker 06

  Yeah, so people who are single at heart, for us, obviously, I'm one of them, single life is our best life. It's our most meaningful, fulfilling, and psychologically rich life. Most importantly, it's our most authentic life. Single is who we really are. And we are happy and flourishing, not despite being single, but because of it. So the threat to us, the risk, is not what we would lose if we did not put a romantic partner at the center of our lives,

• 8:44Speaker 06

  but what we would lose if we did. So, "single at heart" is a very affirming way of being single. It means embracing your single life for what it has to offer. So it's not a default, you know, it's not something we're just stuck with. It's not a phase. We're not single because we're fleeing from romantic life, because we're afraid of bad, or we're worried about bad relationship experiences we had. And we may or may not have had bad relationship experiences. But at the core, at the heart of "single at heart"

• 9:24Speaker 06

  is being powerfully drawn to single life, and all that single life has to offer. One of the "single at heart" people who shared her story with me said that, when you're single at heart, you can try to live a different kind of life, but it all kind of feels like an uncomfortable pair of shoes.

• 9:53Jonathan Fields?

  I would imagine that metaphor applies to a lot of people for a lot of different ways that they think they're supposed to live.

• 9:59Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 9:59Jonathan Fields?

  But somehow, when they try it, it doesn't fit.

• 10:03Speaker 06

  Yeah, right.

• 10:05Jonathan Fields?

  But then with this particular choice, you tend to be judged by those around you for making that choice.

• 10:11Speaker 06

  Right. And, you know, of course, we're judged as having lives that are not as fulfilling, not as meaningful, all of that. But also, people don't believe us when we say that we're happy and that we want to stay single, which is really amazing. I mean, can you imagine someone who's married telling somebody else, "Oh, I'm happily married," and they say, "Oh, you just think you are. You just haven't given single life a chance. Or why don't you get divorced and see what it's really like?" And it's ridiculous. Nobody would say that, and nobody should say that. But they say it all the time to people who

• 10:53Speaker 06

  are single. In fact, my colleague Wendy Morris and I did a series of studies where we showed people brief biographies of people who are single or married. And we asked them how happy they thought they were and how happy they would say they were. And people consistently thought that the single people were exaggerating their happiness. So if they said they were really happy, they were just saying that, you know, they weren't really happy. And they didn't do that to married people, or at least not as much.

• 11:32Jonathan Fields?

  So you literally showed people, and let me make sure I'm getting this right, like identical bios, same jobs, same geography, same, like, pretty much everything's the same. The one difference being this person is single and this person is partnered. And then people who looked at those judged the one who's single as being less happy, less content.

• 11:51Speaker 06

  Right. And as exaggerating. When they said they're happy, they're just exaggerating.

• 11:56Jonathan Fields?

  So it's almost like you're then also saying, oh, they're just, they're kind of lying to themselves. They're deluding themselves.

• 12:02Speaker 06

  Right. Yeah. Yeah. And again, can you imagine telling a married person, "You're just fooling yourself. You're not really happily married."

• 12:13Jonathan Fields?

  Where does, in your mind, where does this judgment come from?

• 12:18Speaker 06

  Oh, well, I think that we have been shown relentlessly this worldview, this mythology that insists that if you find the one, commit to that person, organize your life around that person, you really will live happily ever after. The worldview, the ideology, is that that's not a myth. It's true. That get married, or at least be, get committed to

• 12:58Speaker 06

  one person, and you will be happier, you'll be healthier, you'll even be morally superior to people who don't do that. And that is a powerful promise. And with it comes this other part of the mythology, that once you find your person, you've found your everything. You know, your best friend, your partner in intimacy, your person who co-parents if you have kids, your financial partner, your co-vacation planner, and all the rest. And

• 13:38Speaker 06

  so if you believe in that mythology, which is rarely questioned, then as a person who has done that, if you've gotten married, and you think, "Well, I did it, you know? I'm happy because I'm married," and that people who haven't followed my path are not going to have the same deeply fulfilling life. And so, when you come across someone who is single, if they're unhappily single, that's fine, you know? You can fit that into

• 14:21Speaker 06

  your worldview, because that makes sense. But what doesn't make sense, what's threatening to the mythology that says that if you get married, you're a better person, you're happier, healthier, is a single person who says that they are happy, that they don't want to un-single themselves. And in fact, there are several studies in different nations showing that when people judge single people, in the kind of study we just described, where they see identical descriptions of a single person and a married person, the descriptions are

• 15:05Speaker 06

  exactly the same, except that one person is described as single and the other as romantically coupled or married. And then, in these studies, they vary whether the single person is someone who wants to be single, is happily single, or someone who really doesn't want to be single. And the happily single people are judged more harshly than the unhappily single people. There's judges not really as happy as we've seen before. They're judged as, you know, not sociable, as having all these flaws. And what I thought was most interesting, they

• 15:50Speaker 06

  are, the people judging them actually express some anger toward them.

• 15:57Jonathan Fields?

  What's that about?

• 15:59Speaker 06

  I think it's about the way that happy, single people threaten this worldview that people are, that many people are so invested in, including some single people who don't want to be single. They really want to believe that if only they find that one person, build their life around that one person, their life is set. All the pieces of their life come together, and they're happier and healthier. And happy, single people threaten that.

• 16:37Speaker 06

  It perpetuates the idea that no one really wants to be single, because if you keep hearing as a single person, "Oh, you can't possibly be happy. You're going to change your mind." Well, I'm 72. I don't think I'm going to change my mind. But what happens is that some single people who really like their single lives, like the single at heart, feel reluctant to say so. And so then, other people think, "Oh, I don't know anyone who's single at heart." I had a reporter from a prestigious paper come and spend some hours with me,

• 17:17Speaker 06

  interviewing me. And she wrote this write-up of other happy, single people, too. And she wrote up in her published piece that as she was driving back to the airport, she was thinking to herself, "Huh, I don't know anyone who's happily single. None of my friends are." And this is someone who wrote about weddings. You know, I think maybe that was true, but maybe her friends knew that if they told her how they really felt, she wouldn't believe them.

• 17:53Jonathan Fields?

  So it's almost like you're, there's this social pressure to not own the fact that we're actually really content with the way things are.

• 18:02Speaker 06

  Right.

• 18:03Jonathan Fields?

  You know, so if somebody asks you in public, you're always trying to figure out how to shapeshift and tell the story in a way that will make everyone around you comfortable.

• 18:11Speaker 06

  Yes. In fact, one of the people who shared her life story with me for my Single at Heart book said that she was on lunch break at work one time, and she was talking to one of her colleagues. And her colleague said, "So, you don't want to get married?" And she said she was totally fine saying, "No, I don't want to get married," and reasons for that, and it's institutionally problematic and all the rest. But she couldn't bring herself to tell this coworker that she also didn't want a romantic relationship, that

• 18:51Speaker 06

  she loved living single. And here is someone who's in my book, talking to me about what she loves about Single at Heart, she's deeply single at heart, and she can't tell her coworker. Oh, here's something else that really gets to me. I sometimes get emails out of the blue from people. And they'll tell me, "Oh, I love this about my single life. I love that. I like my solitude, my freedom. I have a place of my own, etc., etc., etc." And then they'll say, "What do you think is wrong with me?"

• 19:30Jonathan Fields?

  Like, the assumption is just that you must be broken?

• 19:34Speaker 06

  Yes. That if you like being single, there's something wrong with you. And what's so astounding about that is that these people have what everyone wants. They have a life that they love. And yet, imagine that the question that comes to your mind when you have a life that you love, if you're single, is, "What's wrong with me?"

• 20:08Speaker 06

  It's amazing.

• 20:11Jonathan Fields?

  And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Good Life Project is sponsored by Ernesta Rug. So if you ever had a space that was almost right, not wrong, just close enough. For me, that's our front porch. It's where I go to think and have my coffee. But every rug we put out there has been whatever size was available. So it just kind of floats. And I kept putting off fixing it because getting the right size felt like a whole project. Then I found Ernesta. They make designer quality rugs, custom cut to the exact size of your space. So it actually fits instead of almost fits. Their design team even helps you nail the size completely free. And you can order five oversized samples to set right next to your furniture. Plus get $50 towards any rug you choose.

• 20:57Jonathan Fields?

  Our porch rug is on its way and I can't wait to step outside and think, yep, that one feels like ours. Visit ernesta.com and order five samples for only $10 and you'll get $50 toward any rug of your choice. That's E R N E S T A dot com.

• 21:15Jonathan Fields?

  Good Life Project is sponsored by FAIRE. So you know the feeling when you wander into a little shop that you've never been in? And within about 30 seconds, you can just tell somebody actually cares. Every candle, every notebook, every odd little thing on the shelf was chosen by a real human with a point of view and taste that you just love. It's less a store and more of a person. And it's a big part of what makes a place feel like home. That's why I love what FAIRE is doing. So FAIRE is a wholesale marketplace connecting independent retailers with over 100,000 unique brands worldwide across home apparel, beauty, food, and more. It's the thoughtful distinctive stuff that makes a shop stand out and keeps regulars coming back, which matters as you plan for the holidays.

• 21:58Jonathan Fields?

  Eligible retailers get 60 day interest free payment terms plus free returns on first orders with every brand. So trying something new doesn't feel like a gamble. So sign up today and get 50% off your first wholesale order, up to $100 at F A I R E dot com slash good life. That's F A I R E dot com slash good life. Terms may apply.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One Bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See Capital One dot com slash bank. Capital One, N A, Member FDIC.

• 22:59Jonathan Fields?

  So we, we pathologize being single and happy.

• 23:03Speaker 06

  Yes, and people internalize that. In fact, one of the, one of the most common reactions I get to people who read Single at Heart is that they wish they had understood this much earlier in their lives. And they say that, you know, they, they would have lived a different life. That even, some of them, even some of them who got married and are in a way happily married, still aren't living their best life.

• 23:40Speaker 06

  I remember this one man telling me that he has no issues with his wife at all. She's a wonderful person, but he wishes he never got married because it's single life that he found fulfilling. And he, you know, thinks back to his single days and how fulfilling they were and how he wishes he could have that again. But he wants to honor the promise he made to his wife.

• 24:14Jonathan Fields?

  Which, which brings up a weird question in my mind that you, you share that example. Can someone be married and still be sort of like healthily, functionally, constructively single at heart?

• 24:26Speaker 06

  Yes, this is something I had to be persuaded of because I started out thinking, no, no, no, no, no. But then I kept collecting these stories and people who fit that description were adamant that they counted as single at heart. And what I found about those people is that they did not follow a conventional script of being totally interconnected with their spouse or their romantic partner if they weren't married. And so typically they had more of a separation.

• 25:06Speaker 06

  So they had, they had an understanding about spending time by themselves, their time with their friends or the people who mattered to them without judgment or pressure. And some of them, actually, most of them also had separate living arrangements. They either lived in a place of their own, what's called living apart together, or they had separate sides of the place that they lived in. They had separate spaces. So they were people who appreciated lots of what the single at heart appreciate. So they liked their independence, their freedom, their solitude.

• 25:51Speaker 06

  And so, you know, they're not, they don't score as high on the single at heart quiz as people who, who are not partnered, but, but they score high enough. And, you know, they persuaded me, they count. And again, people who don't follow the yellow brick road are at risk of being judged. So people will say, oh, you really aren't that committed to your partner. Or you just want to be able to cheat and not get caught. And, you know, for most of the people, that's not it.

• 26:30Speaker 06

  They really do flourish when they can have their time to themselves, their solitude, their separate friends there. And I think that is a really healthy thing. I think whenever you're being true to yourself, it's a healthy thing. But when being true to yourself means going against the expectations and the norms and what gets rewarded and celebrated, then, you know, you're in the category that's not getting rewarded and celebrated. Instead, you're getting a second guest.

• 27:09Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a shame, right? Because then you're put in the position of moving through each day, having to defend your choice if you choose to be open and honest about it. Which is not, it's not a comfortable way to live.

• 27:24Speaker 06

  Right, yeah, yeah. And in fact, I think about what I'm trying to do with changing the story of what it means to be single as part of a long evolution of freeing people to be their more authentic self. And what I hope will happen with this single at heart concept and more positive framings of single life more generally, even if you're not single at heart, but you enjoy being single for a while. I want that to be reframed so that it's not something you have to defend against.

• 28:09Speaker 06

  It's something you can commit to and embrace without being judged.

• 28:18Jonathan Fields?

  We should also just share a bit of context here. You have surveyed over, and tell me if I'm getting this number, over 20,000 people, over 100 countries, three, three decades. So you're drawing not just from your personal lived experience and a small number of people that, you know, like you have had the chances to talk to you. You're drawing from a massive data set that is in fact global when you, when you share these things.

• 28:48Speaker 06

  Yeah. So, yeah, so that gave me confidence too. Although they're not representative samples, they're people who found the quiz. But still, yeah. And the quiz answers or the survey answers they correspond with what the people who shared their life stories told me. So one example is when I started this work, I thought, well, people who are single at heart are going to mostly appreciate solitude. But what I didn't realize was just how central that was.

• 29:26Speaker 06

  So in this survey of more than 20,000 people from all around the world, just about everyone who identified as single at heart said that they saw solitude, time alone, as sweet solitude, not as something to fear or to worry about being lonely. And then when I asked the people who shared their life stories with me in much greater detail, every one of them said that solitude was deeply important to them. Three people said it was like breathing.

• 30:07Speaker 06

  And I think that really.

• 30:11Speaker 06

  Reassured me about both the survey findings and my own experiences and the experiences of people who identify as single at heart.

• 30:23Jonathan Fields?

  Is there a line between solitude, nourishing solitude and a harmful loneliness?

• 30:32Speaker 06

  Yes, and the big turning point, the key to that is choice. So if you're alone because you were ostracized or excluded or nobody invited you and you're home by yourself, that's painful. But if you're alone because you relish the time you have to yourself, that you savor it and you find that it's good for feeling relaxed and at peace or creative or spiritual or if you find that it's good for focus or it's good for expansiveness.

• 31:16Speaker 06

  All of those are positive ways of experiencing solitude that we should respect and value rather than fret about.

• 31:30Jonathan Fields?

  It sounds like what you're describing, one of the greatest things, if you are single at heart and you're, and then you choose to and surround yourselves with people who welcome you, living as that person, is the ability to step into every day, living more authentically, which for so many of us is so powerful and so important to our well-being. What are some of the other benefits that you've found of people living this way?

• 32:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, you know, when, when you ask people, oh, what would be good about being single, you know, someone who is not enmeshed in this topic, you know, they'll say, oh, you get to have your own schedule and eat what you want and when you want and keep the house as warm or as cold as you want if you live alone. And all that is true and I appreciate all that every single day. But it's much bigger than that. It's about being able to be the captain of your own ship and to make big, life-changing decisions that are true to yourself.

• 32:44Speaker 06

  In my own life, I once did, I was, I used to be at the University of Virginia, so I did what was a one-year, supposed to be a one-year sabbatical out here at the University of California at Santa Barbara. And when the end of the year was drawing near, I was thinking, oh, I don't know, I wish I didn't have to go back. And I remember walking the beach with someone who said, so don't. It was like, oh, wow, yes, I can do that. I can pick up and leave this life I developed on the East Coast my whole life, I lived

• 33:25Speaker 06

  there my whole life, and move to this place that now really felt like home, like who I was. And I did that, pulled up this life that was, that I was totally rooted and moved to a new place without having to be concerned about, well, would a romantic partner want to do that? And is it fair to ask them to? And so there's a certain freedom that is beyond just what's in the refrigerator gets to stay there.

• 34:08Jonathan Fields?

  And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Good Life Project is sponsored by Whatnot. So I love buying books and for some reason, I especially love buying used books. I just had so much fun literally minutes ago. I picked up the entire Hunger Games trilogy of books for only $11 and also got this beautiful thank you from the seller and a welcome from all the others in the chat. Whatnot is the largest dedicated live shopping platform from beauty to luxury fashion, even cookies, and you almost never pay full price. Plus, what really gets me is the other side of the screen. On Whatnot, anyone can sell, whether your business is big or small or doesn't even exist yet.

• 34:50Jonathan Fields?

  You go live, share what you love and build relationships with people who come back for you, not a logo. According to Whatnot, people selling there sell 10 times more than on other major marketplaces. It's a real path to building something that lasts. Search Whatnot, W-H-A-T-N-O-T in the App Store, download and you can start selling right away. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Ah, fall, that cozy season where we swap the swimwear for sweaters and sunnies for scars. But before the Halloween decorations are put away or Thanksgiving table has been set, there's already holly jolly music playing in the grocery store, reminding you that the year is coming to a close.

• 35:33Jonathan Fields?

  Time to kick end of year into high gear. When you use Apple Card with Apple Pay, you earn 2% daily cash back on all purchases, including food, decorations, gifts and more. Get a head start on your end of year purchases. Apply for your Apple Card in the Wallet app on your iPhone today and start using it right away with Apple Pay. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard.com.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One Bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com/bank. Capital One, N.A., Member FDIC.

• 36:34Jonathan Fields?

  A part of my curiosity around this is, I think a lot of people would nod along and say, wouldn't it be amazing to be able to make the choices that I want to make and only I want to make without needing to consider anyone else in those choices? And I think a lot of people would say, well, yeah, that sounds incredible. I'm wondering, do we lose anything by never having to consider how our choices will impact others that we care deeply about in striving for that freedom?

• 37:15Jonathan Fields?

  So like, do we regain something, but are we losing anything by not having that internal negotiation?

• 37:21Speaker 06

  Yeah, well, it's not like, oh, this is another, that brings up another really interesting point about people who are single and not even people who are necessarily single at heart, is that single people in general are more connected to more different people. So they are more likely to exchange practical, emotional support with other people in their lives. And that includes friends, siblings, parents, coworkers, neighbors. And, and research shows that when people get married, they become more insular.

• 38:06Speaker 06

  Now, not everybody, but on average, they talk to their friends less, they call their parents less often. And so in a way, we're more connected. So to go back to your question of, aren't we considering everyone else and don't we lose by doing that? I had a special advantage in that I was moving to a spectacularly beautiful place. So it wasn't hard to persuade people to come out and visit. I do see the people that matter to me.

• 38:46Speaker 06

  And, and I have been there for the people who need me. So before I moved to Santa Barbara, California, I was living in Charlottesville, Virginia. That's where I was a professor of psychology. And during that time, my mother, who was in Pennsylvania, 377 miles away from me, to be exact, she at one point was dying of pancreatic cancer.

• 39:23Speaker 06

  And I, every time I could, I would drive 377 miles to be there with her and then come back. Occasionally, I took a flight if I had to balance classes or something like that. And that too, that, that was nothing special about me because there's research that shows that when aging parents need help, they are more likely to get it from their adult children who are single than from those who are coupled.

• 40:04Speaker 06

  And that's true of their sons as well as their daughters, black as well as white, just about every demographic that was included in the research.

• 40:14Jonathan Fields?

  So part of what I hear you saying is, we, we think that we will give so much of what we give, we'll learn so much of what we need to learn, we'll have the negotiations and make the sacrifices or compromises and, and then also give support to and find support from and love to and love from this one other mystical being that we somehow anoint and find and anoint in our lives to be the partner. But you're saying, like, single at heart?

• 40:48Jonathan Fields?

  Doesn't mean that you don't have all of those things.

• 40:51Speaker 06

  Right.

• 40:52Jonathan Fields?

  It means that it's probably coming from a community of people who you may be profoundly and deeply connected to.

• 41:00Speaker 06

  Yes, yes. So the way I like to put that is that people who are married or in a committed romantic relationship have the one. But people who are single often have the ones. And there is science behind the advantages of that. For example, there are studies that ask people, who do you go to when you're sad or when you're angry or when you're happy? And they find that people who go to different people to fulfill different needs are, in general, more satisfied with their lives than people

• 41:44Speaker 06

  who invest all of their emotional needs in one person.

• 41:52Jonathan Fields?

  And as you were just describing, you know, when, there's a risk in also investing all of your emotional needs in one person. We like to think, you know, when we found the one, they're the one and they're the one for life.

• 42:06Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 42:06Jonathan Fields?

  And the data tells us, especially in the Western world, a very different story that very often they are the one for a season of time. It may be a few years, it may be decades. And, um, and you're like, there is, there's a risk in structuring your relationships that way, too.

• 42:28Speaker 06

  Yes. So if you count on your romantic partner to be your best friend and your co-vacation planner and your co-parent and your, you know, your everything, your sex and everything else partner, as I sometimes call them, then it's fine, you know, if your relationship is going fine, that's great. But then if they walk away or if they die or if you get sick and they walk away, then you don't have anything, you know? You, you don't have that, a close friend because you put your friends on the back burner. And, and so what some studies show is that the people who have been single their whole lives

• 43:12Speaker 06

  are doing especially well in later life. And that's really an amazing affront to the scare stories that have permeated our lives where we get told, oh, you might be happy now, but wait till you get older. Well, people, especially people who are single at heart, have invested in their single lives. So they've invested in their friends. They didn't put them on the back burner to put a romantic partner at the center. They invested in themselves. They learned lots of different skills or they found people who could help them with skills. So when people are married and living together,

• 43:55Speaker 06

  they do have an advantage that they don't have to do everything themselves. They split up the tasks, right? Usually in ways that are sources of great conflict, but whatever. But then, when that relationship ends with divorce or death or separation, then the person who's left behind either doesn't know how to do what their partner used to do or they're out of practice. Whereas the person who has been single for a long time and never counted on having a spouse has learned how to either do those things or find someone to hire or someone who would help.

• 44:38Speaker 06

  And another thing about growing older as you're single, especially single at heart, is you're not going to be that stereotype of the, you know, the isolated, lonely, single person because you like your solitude and you've been nurturing your friendships.

• 45:02Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah. One other thing that comes up, I think, just along this line of conversation is this notion that people kind of say, well, okay, so, you know, if I am blessed to get old.

• 45:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 45:14Jonathan Fields?

  Um, and at some point, certain parts of me are going to start to fail and I'm going to need to be taken care of or somebody else is going to need to be taken care of. Like, wouldn't it be better to have that one person there to do it? And what I'm hearing you say is, not necessarily.

• 45:31Speaker 06

  Yeah. And I wish that single people who have had the experience of needing a lot of care and received it, I wish their stories were, got more attention instead of the story of, you know, a person who dies alone and isn't found for how many weeks or whatever. So what I found in this life stories of people who are single at heart were several people who did have life-altering experiences. So one person was, was bicycling and hit by a distracted driver

• 46:16Speaker 06

  and was so torn up that they thought she was dead. And she spent months in the hospital, months in rehab. And what happened was that her friends and family rallied around her. Well, mostly her friends because her family lived farther away. And she found that so many people wanted to come to visit her that they actually had to, the nurses had to have a schedule. So, you know, and then another person who I interviewed for a book that's called How We Live Now,

• 47:00Speaker 06

  no romantic partner, no kids. Her family lived 800 miles away. And when she was diagnosed with cancer, she found that 49 people came forward and wanted to help her. She called them her angels and they coordinated care in ways that are much easier to do now with, you know, those online platforms that let you do that. And I'm not saying every single person has that. Of course they don't, but I think it may be more common than we realize.

• 47:44Speaker 06

  And we also don't realize that when married people have a life-threatening issue, their partner may not be there in the way they want them to. Maybe they can't because they are dealing with their own physical or, or emotional problems. Or maybe it's, it's just too hard for them emotionally to deal with this illness. And so we think that being married is this magical solution where you have somebody who's there for you and takes care of everything.

• 48:29Speaker 06

  But it doesn't always work out that way.

• 48:34Speaker 06

  And I have actually had people say to me, you know, well, why don't you get married so that when you, when you do get sick and need help, you'll have someone who's obligated to help you? And it's like, really? I'm supposed to live my whole life in a way I don't want to? Just so there'll be somebody there? I mean, I think that's called using people. And I've had people email me and say, you know, I love being single, but should I get married so that I'll have someone to take care of me? No, that's so mean.

• 49:07Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah. Have, have you studied or noticed or seen the difference in living the single at heart life based on gender?

• 49:20Speaker 06

  Um, oh, this was a surprise, yes. If you look at single people more generally, not just the single at heart. The people who are most likely to thrive when being single are women. If someone has a hard time, it's more likely to be men. But in this Single at Heart survey, it was the men who were more likely to identify as single at heart. Now, again, it's not a representative survey, so we have to take that with a grain of salt. But, but that was fascinating to me. But when you think about it some more, why wouldn't they? Why wouldn't men enjoy their independence and their freedom and their solitude?

• 50:03Speaker 06

  And, and their opportunity to hang out with however many people they want rather than just one person? And so I think it's, you know, it's, it's a possibility for whatever gender you identify with, which I think is encouraging, too. I loved finding that.

• 50:28Jonathan Fields?

  Hmm. Yeah, because intuitively I would have probably made assumptions also. So it's interesting to hear that maybe that's not entirely correct. I mean, if we zoom the lens out, a lot of what I'm hearing you invite us to explore the really big picture here is that being single at heart can, can deepen your relationships and expand your community.

• 50:55Speaker 06

  Yes, because you aren't expected to put one person at the center of your life. And, you know, it's more than just not being broken. It's about being fulfilled and, in some ways, having a bigger life because you can pursue what is meaningful to you and have a variety of interesting experiences and points of view, which is what psychologically, psychological richness means.

• 51:31Jonathan Fields?

  Hmm. I love that. It feels like a good place for us to come full circle in our conversation as well. So in this container of Good Life Project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up?

• 51:43Speaker 06

  Oh, I think it means being true to yourself. And for me, that me, that has meant living single my entire life and living single fully, joyfully and unapologetically. And I try to encourage other people to do the same. And I guess in everyday life, living a good life means,

• 52:10Speaker 06

  Savoring even the small things. So I live in this beautiful place near the Pacific Ocean, and I never take it for granted. So every day I look out the window and I think, I can't believe I get to live here. It's also means that when I wake up, I appreciate if the sun is shining and the warm ocean breeze is there. I appreciate that. I appreciate like going to the farmer's market and picking out just picked produce and making dinner

• 52:51Speaker 06

  with that. I enjoy staying in touch with my friends. And all of those are simple things. You don't need money to, you know, appreciate the sun and the ocean. And I also, I guess my passion, as you can probably tell, is rewriting the story of what it can mean to be single. So transcending all those deficit narratives that characterize single people as a pile of problems and deficiencies, and instead pointing out the strengths of

• 53:29Speaker 06

  single people and the wonderful possibilities of single life. That's been a good life for me.

• 53:38Jonathan Fields?

  Thank you.

• 53:39Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 53:41Jonathan Fields?

  So let's talk about some of the big action ball insights from this conversation. One thing I'm really exploring from this conversation is how much of what we assume about being alone actually turns out to be pretty backwards. The idea that happy, single people are lying to themselves. The idea that you need one person to be your everything, your best friend, your co-parent, your emotional home base. When Bella's research says, the people who thrive are actually very often the ones who spread that across several different relationships. And the idea that, that getting older, single means getting older alone. When the data says something closer to the exact opposite. If there's one thing to actually

• 54:22Jonathan Fields?

  maybe do with this, it's this. Think about who's on your the ones list right now. Not your one person, your ones, plural. And reach out to somebody on that list this week for no reason at all, just to bring them back into your life. And hey, before you leave next week, we're sitting down with bestselling novelist Jodi Pico to talk about how she steps inside the minds of people whose lives look nothing like her own, and why that kind of empathy might be one of the most undervalued skills we have. Be sure to follow Good Life Project wherever you get your podcasts, so you don't miss that conversation or any upcoming episodes. Do me a quick, personal favor, a seven second favor. Share this conversation

• 55:05Jonathan Fields?

  with just one person, maybe one single at heart person who's been feeling pretty judged. Or leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps us get discovered and reach more people. This episode of Good Life Project was produced by executive producers Lindsay Fox and me, Jonathan Fields. Editing help by Troy Young. Chris Carter crafted our theme music. And of course, if you haven't already, please go ahead and follow us wherever you get your podcasts, so you never miss a conversation. Until next time, I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One Bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends. It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com/Bank. Capital One, N.A., Member FDIC.

• 56:18Speaker 02

  State Fair food is getting smaller and pricier.

• 56:21Speaker 03

  We'll have room for fried cookies.

• 56:23Speaker 02

  Okay, you'd never overspend on food. What's your deal?

• 56:26Speaker 04

  What's his deal? He went to Metro and got $450 in value on the new Samsung Galaxy 837 5G for free and no activation fees.

• 56:34Speaker 02

  Free phone? Oh, sign me up.

• 56:37Speaker 04

  Get that more for your money feeling. Only on Metro by T-Mobile.

• 56:40Speaker 05

  Bring your number and activate $40 period plan. $450 based on device discount. Waved activation fee. Not available with Metro T-Mobile in the past 180 days. There's one thing that will forever change the way you sleep, and it's the softest 100% organic cotton sheets from Bowlin Branch. You'll fall asleep faster, wrapped in the most luxurious comfort. You'll never sleep hot again with sheets that feel breathable to sleep in. You'll experience the purest softness on night one and feel your sheets get even softer with every wash. Discover the difference with 15% off your first set of sheets at BowlinBranch.com with code BUTTERY. Exclusions apply. See site for details.

• 57:18Speaker 07

  Big monthly car insurance bills are hard on your budget, but not with Hugo. Hugo breaks up your insurance bill into tiny pieces, so you can pay a little bit at a time. Get a quote today and start driving insured with just seven days of coverage. After that, pay at your own pace, like every week or even a day at a time. Hugo is car insurance that fits your budget, stress-free. Get your car insured today at WithHugo.com. That's WithHugo.com.