SC EP:1180 The Caveman On The Property

Spoke to the witness who is from Oklahoma and he said "I saw the creature on two different occasions in broad daylight. What I saw looked like a cave man. I was a young man when this encounter took place, I was frozen looking at this thing. Later that night it came to my window. I have seen so much over the years on this property. I learned many years ago to keep my mouth shut because of ridicule. I recently received some bad news from my doctor, I don't care anymore what people think. A friend of my mine recommend your podcast."

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind and it either heard me or smelt me and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up and that, that shocked me. They don't make people that, that big.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything move like that in my life.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  They were screaming at each other in gibberish.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  It sounded like a language and they were chuntering away, back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet that what I saw bears.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  911, what are you reporting? Jesus Christ, you better... Karen, see ya! Hello? Get somebody out of here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know. Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh-uh.

• 1:35Speaker 03

  This is Alicia from Kennesaw, Georgia, and you're listening to the best podcast on the planet, Sasquatch Chronicles.

• 2:06Wes Germer?

  Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show planned for you. I have the pleasure of speaking with Dean tonight, who comes to us from Oklahoma. And Dean's going to be sharing with us what it was like to grow up over the last 50 years on this property. And the first time he actually saw the creature, he was a little boy. And I'll kind of let Dean go into it. If you've had an encounter, and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is [email protected]. And if you get a chance, check out sasquatchchronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional

• 2:45Wes Germer?

  shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Dean to the show. Dean, thanks for coming on.

• 2:54Speaker 05

  You're welcome.

• 2:55Wes Germer?

  Thank you again for being here. And we're going to talk about a lot of different things tonight. But let's kind of start from the very beginning. If you would, tell me about this property, and kind of walk me into what happened the first time that you saw it.

• 3:10Speaker 05

  You know, I was unsure of exactly when it happened. I knew it was right before my parents divorced. But when I was 35, I actually brought the day up to my mother and father, who were still alive then, and asked them if they remembered that day. And they did. Talking it out, we deduced it was in October or early November, right before they separated of 1975. And I was going to school up here in Antlers, Oklahoma. Rode a school bus out about five miles west of town, where we leased a house from an old bootlegger. And he had a store here on Highway three, in a little community called Darwin.

• 3:53Speaker 05

  And he had three rental homes on it. And we were leasing one of them. And anyway, we're coming home from school, me and my brother riding the bus. I had a sister, but she was real little at the time. And when we got home from school, my dad was an avid hunter and a fisherman. And he had bird dogs. And our job was to

• 4:18Speaker 05

  Take care of those dogs as soon as we get off that bus. So we went out to their pens and behind this rent home and watered and fed and cleaned up their pen. And my brother went back in the house and a hundred yards behind this rent home, there was a giant cyclone fence encircled this wooded property. And we were told not to go back there. But I had dug me away underneath that fence and I used to go back and play in those woods. It was just something to do, you know, there were nothing else to do out here, basically. Go fishing, had a little pond next to the property there. Used to fish in. But anyway, I had a half

• 5:01Speaker 05

  walker hound, half beagle dog is what we had. That ran loose, you know, he was kind of our pet. He wasn't a hunt, you know, he was a hunting dog. But anyway, he was always with us if he was outside. So he was with me and he'd crawl under with me and we'd run around those woods. And so when my brother went in, I decided I'm gonna crawl under that fence and go back and play in the woods. I probably got a hundred yards into the woods behind the house, no farther than that, probably. But we're going along, dog's out in front of me. I'm just kind of watching the dog, probably ten, fifteen feet behind it. All of a sudden, this dog was a, he was such a good hunting dog, people and family and friends

• 5:44Speaker 05

  used to come borrow him. You know, so he was used to the woods and wild animals. Anyway, he turned, yelped, turned, and ran by me just as fast as he could. And so I'm watching him and as he ran by me, I'm looking at him and he's taking, he's heading back toward the house. You know, fast as he could go, I'd never seen him act like that. And when I turned and looked back to where he had come from, standing probably twenty to twenty-five feet in front of me, in a little opening in the trees there, stood.

• 6:25Speaker 05

  For lack of a better description, a gigantic hairy humanoid of some kind. You know, as a seven and a half year old boy, it was a monster to me, you know, is what it was. And I never heard it. I don't know where it came from. I never heard it. Uh, but all I can figure is the dog, when it became aware it was there, the dog hightailed it. But when I, when I turned back around and saw it, uh, I was frozen. I could not move. You know, every instinct in my body, I wanted to scream, holler and run, but I was frozen with fear.

• 7:07Speaker 05

  First time I'd ever been that way, but the guy, I'll call it a guy, cause it was some type of a ancient, prehistoric type man is the only way I can describe it, a caveman, if you will.

• 7:24Speaker 05

  And I'm looking up at it, you know, cause it's, it's huge, you know, I don't, I've never stood next to another human being that even comes close to what this, how big this thing was. But I'm kind of frozen on its face and my top of my head probably come between its knees and its waist, if I was guessing, you know, so I'm locked, looking up, just frozen. And, uh, it's just looking at me and I can't move, I can't holler and it's not moving. It's not making a noise. And if you've ever seen an old dog, when he'll lock in on something he's curious about, he'll tilt his head and this thing did that, looking at me, tilted its head sideways, you know,

• 8:07Speaker 05

  as it stood there, just standing there with his arms down the side and tilted its head and it showed me its teeth. And I swear it was, you know, over the last, which is fixing to be 50 years since this happened. I thought about it and I think it was smiling at me, I really do, you know.

• 8:29Speaker 05

  It, it just showed his teeth and tilted its head and stared at me and I couldn't.

• 8:38Speaker 05

  I couldn't, you know, I couldn't do anything if I wanted to. I was just frozen. And it looked at me for, you know, it seemed like an eternity. When you're that afraid at, you know, time. It seemed like it took forever, but. It probably, I thought about a lot, is probably, I was guessing. Maybe forty to fifty seconds, it stood there in front of me, just looked at me. Then just took a step to the right, went in behind this big, what I know now to be a cedar tree, big fluffy green tree. And I, and that's where it'd come from, you know, I guess it stepped out from behind that tree. That's why I didn't see it when we come up on it and the dog didn't either. And, uh, but the dog was out in front when it came around to the side of the tree. I guess the dog seen it or.

• 9:21Speaker 05

  You know, whatever, knew it was there and took off, but I never did till it stepped out and then it stepped behind the tree. And when it stepped behind the tree. All of a sudden, I could move. And I immediately turned and headed toward the house as fast as I could run, but. Like I said, after something like that happens, I don't know how to explain it, but my legs didn't seem to want to work. You know, uh, I guess maybe I, I, I was in shock. I don't know. But, uh.

• 9:51Speaker 05

  Crawl back under the fence, get to the house, run in and tell my mom. She was in the kitchen. My dad wasn't there. Uh, I guess my brother was in our room. I don't know where he was at, but. Anyway, all she said was, you know.

• 10:05Speaker 05

  You ain't supposed to be back there, you know, and kind of whooped me. She said, I'll tell your dad. You know, you know, he'll whoop you and, and I knew that for sure. So I didn't want her to tell him. So I, I just go outside and I get to thinking. You know, where's my dog? Where's Sambo? That dog had, he, he, he was headed for the house when he took off from this thing. He was underneath the house and I couldn't get him to come out. It's an old, set up on an old three center block foundation, the old house did. And it, you know, it had the openings and the center blocks and. He'd got under there and I could not get him out. He would not come out. Uh, I've seen him under there. He's just laying flat to the ground. I don't know when he finally did come out, but he never did before dark.

• 10:47Speaker 05

  So I go in and I sit there for a while in the porch just trying to comprehend, you know, what I seen and I'd walk to the edge of the house and look, make sure this thing wouldn't come and, you know, follow me. And, uh, so I go in and tell my brother and I guess him and my mom just thought it was a hunter or something back there. Uh, what I didn't know then was it was the woods that I only knew right there by the house was actually twenty-four hundred acres altogether. At that time, I found out years later, but, uh, so nothing more was said, you know, and anyway, came our bedtime. I'm gonna guess probably nine,

• 11:27Speaker 05

  nine thirty, we're in bed and, uh, me and my brother sleeping room together on old army cocks, little single army cocks, is what we had. Mine was across the room from a window, about twelve feet from a window. We had one window in the little old room. It probably wasn't twelve by fourteen, the room. But, uh, I'm laying there on my left side looking at this window on the south side of the house, you know, just kind of laying there. Couldn't go to sleep after what had happened, you know, I'm still thinking about it. And from the top left corner of that window, appeared the face that I had seen earlier in the woods. And it was either the same one or it has a twin. It looked identical

• 12:11Speaker 05

  and it's staring at me through the window. And once again, when I saw it, I couldn't move, you know, I just was frozen with fear again. My brother's feet were at the window. He was on the south wall of his bed and his feet were at the window, but his head was in the corner of the room, so he couldn't see out the window. He was still awake. But he's laying on his side looking at me on the opposite side of the room and I could hear him saying, Dean, Dean, trying to get my attention, you know, I guess the look on my face or something. We didn't talk about it later, but I guess that's what it was. He couldn't figure out what was going on with me, but I couldn't answer it. Like I

• 12:51Speaker 05

  said, I was frozen. And, uh, so he looked where I was looking and he had to lean up and out off his cot to look out the window because he's up against the wall that the window's on. So he had to lean up and out, but when he did, he saw this thing. And this thing saw him. He didn't know he was there before, cause he couldn't, he couldn't see my brother in that corner of the room, you know, the way, the way it was all set up. Cause his eyes got big and his head turned and looked at my brother. And my brother immediately jumped up and started hollering and run out of the room. And when he did that,

• 13:35Speaker 05

  I could move and I followed him out. Well, just so happens that night, my father was home. He worked, usually worked. When he didn't, you know, was on his shifts were at night at the, uh, toll booth down here at the antlers exit off the Indian Nation Turnpike. But he was off that night. I guess because he was there. And, uh, he slept in a separate room from our mother and our little sister. Uh, she was kinda sickly. She was a seven and a half month premature baby. Only weighed two pounds when she was born. So she slept in a bed. My mom, my dad slept in a den at the front of, front of the house. But he come immediately and my mom come immediately when she, they heard my brother hollering.

• 14:18Speaker 05

  And, uh, they met us in the hallway between these three rooms. I remember my father grabbing my brother, asking him, what is it? What is it? And my brother said, there's a monster at the window. He described it as a monster. That was his exact words. And, uh, I'm just standing behind him. I, you know, I wasn't saying nothing. I was probably in shock again, you know, like I said, I was scared to death, but my, my dad asked him what it looked like. And he said, it looked like a black man with a beard. I remember him saying that. And when I asked my father about it when I was thirty five, my father remembered Mike describing it that way, you know?

• 15:02Speaker 05

  Well, my father, like I said, avid hunter, he even loaded all of his shells, shotgun shells, rifle shells, pistol shells. He had all the equipment to do it in that room he slept in. He always had a loaded gun right there handy and he grabbed a gun and went out immediately. And, uh, when I asked him about it when he was thirty five, I don't remember what was said later on that night. I was too scared, I guess. But, uh, he never saw nothing, never heard nothing.

• 15:30Speaker 05

  Can't figure out because like I said, it was about a hundred yards to anything on any direction from that house and pretty open, you know, there was some. Few big trees, but not a lot. So where it went, where I got there that quick, I don't know, because couldn't took him more than thirty seconds to forty to get outside and to the back of the house. But, uh, yeah, that happened in fall of nineteen seventy five. That was my first, and I had no reference point. I didn't, you know, I never heard of what I'd later would, you know, hear the term Sasquatch, Bigfoot, Wild Man, thousand other terms around the world. Uh, but you know, a year later, after my parents divorced,

• 16:14Speaker 05

  we moved in with my grandmother and we took Oklahoma. I'm sitting in a movie theater and a documentary called The Mysterious Monsters was playing. And of course, you know, me and a bunch of little friends are in there, probably shouldn't even been watching it back then, you know, but we're scared to death. And they're portraying and talking about Bigfoot on this film. And they're, they've got people dressed up, you know, and it's similar to what I saw. So I'm thinking to myself, that's when it kind of hit me, you know, that maybe this is what I saw, you know. Uh, but then that led me down, why this fixing to be fifty years and kind of, I won't use the term researching, but reading

• 16:56Speaker 05

  and watching everything I can about the subject, you know, just trying to understand how, you know, something like what I saw could exist and not everybody know about it, you know. Uh, that was my first sighting.

• 17:12Wes Germer?

  And Dean, you said it reminded you of a man. Would you kind of describe what you saw?

• 17:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, you know, uh, I've never owned a computer and I didn't know people were talking openly about this subject until about eight years ago when I got a smartphone. And, uh, but anyway, that being said, uh, I've, I've watched a lot of stuff on this smartphone since I got it. And, uh, I keep hearing the term animal and I don't know what other people are seeing. You know, they may be seeing something completely different than what I have over the years, but rest assured, what I seen was no animal. This was some type of a humanoid, a man. And, uh, to describe it, black skin, looked like leather, wrinkled on the face, uh,

• 18:07Speaker 05

  Black hair probably, it was, it had varied, varied lengths. I'm looking at the front of it, full on frontal view. Uh, but it was daylight, you know, I got a good look from where my head was positioned when I locked on it because I couldn't move. So I'm looking from basically mid thigh up to the head, you know, what I could see out of my peripheral vision. I'm actually locked on to his face and, uh, eyes and ears and nose and mouth just like us. Flat nose, very large, heavy eyebrow above the eyes. The eyes were, I don't think they were inset, it's just that the eyebrow ridge stuck out so far, it kinda gave him that effect, you know?

• 18:52Speaker 05

  Of being inset, uh, big ears, I remember those. The hair varied in lengths on what I could see. Uh, wasn't all that long on the head, but it had a beard that, you know, wasn't real long, but it didn't hang down, you know what I'm saying? It was short and the mustache didn't even seem to come together under the nose like a normal, modern man's mustache, it was just kinda coming up from the beard a little ways, kinda halfway to the nose. Uh, and as down the front where the hair was thinner on the chest and the top of the abdomen,

• 19:34Speaker 05

  the skin looked to be lighter than what was on the face. Uh, I don't know, you know, how you would term it, a light black as opposed to the dark black skin on the face of it. And as I'm looking at it, it seemed like the hair on the shoulders and down, maybe on the back or side of the arm is the way the impression I got, was longer than on the front of the arm, you know, and on the abdomen and top of the stomach. And then it got thick down on the groin and it was definitely a male, okay? That was obvious.

• 20:16Speaker 05

  And then the hair got thick, like I said, around the groin and on the thigh. And that's kinda all I could, you know, really remember seeing because I, like I say, I couldn't, I wouldn't, I couldn't even move my eyes if that seems even possible, but that's how, I mean, I was just frozen. But, uh, there was sun, there was a break in the trees. I'm wearing kind of a, you know, it's kind of a shaded area. There's a big, I wanna say an oak probably behind it that is standing there, a big tree, you know, with light coming in, but there was a big beam of, a big section of light that came in from the right side. And what was interesting, what I remember was where the sunlight hit on its right shoulder

• 21:00Speaker 05

  and its right side, what, the, all the other hair appeared to be black, but where the sunlight hit it, it appeared to be a silvery grayish, kinda bluish tint to it. Uh, it's hard to describe, it was weird, but I remember that standing out, you know, that, that section where the bright sunlight was hitting it, looked a different color than the rest of the hair, you know, so I'm not sure what that means, but I've often wondered, you know, whether, if you've ever seen a wild turkey, their feathers, you get one and lay it out in the sun and move the, like, move the wings and, and it'll actually change

• 21:45Speaker 05

  colors based on the angle it is to the sun. And I've often wondered whether these things, or what I've seen, its hair kinda did that, you know, and when the sun hit it, it kinda shone or reflected and kinda changed its appearance as opposed to if it was not indirect sunlight. But size of this thing, I mean, who knows, but I can tell you this, ten years, well, not even ten years, about eight years later, I'm sitting on the eighth row of a professional wrestling ring in Oklahoma City at the myriad convention center, on the row where the bad guys come out, and, uh, there was a wrestler back then by the name of Andre the Giant,

• 22:30Speaker 05

  and he walked right by me. And so eight years from then, you know, I was fifteen years old, whatever, but that's the closest I've seen to the mass of this thing, and he wasn't close. So I was guessing.

• 22:46Speaker 05

  What I saw had to have weighed,

• 22:50Speaker 05

  you know, conservatively, six hundred pounds to max, maybe, maybe a thousand pounds, a half a ton. I mean, it was just tremendous mass. Uh, height wise,

• 23:04Speaker 05

  you know, I've been around some basketball players that were seven one, seven two. This thing was a lot taller than any other modern human that I've been close to. Andre the Giant, they listed him at seven four, but he was actually about seven foot, a little bit less. This thing was two heads taller than what Andre the Giant was. So I'm guessing eight to ten feet, maybe, height wise, top end, maybe ten.

• 23:35Speaker 05

  But at least eight, eight and a half, you know, conservatively, but I think it was more closer to ten. It was just massive. Uh, incredible size of this thing. Like I said, I've never, never seen any modern man, and I've known some really big guys. I used to work security at nightclubs, Oklahoma City and surrounding area. Had a lot of run ins with some big, tough guys and nothing like what this was. This is incredible, just absolutely stunning, the size. Like I said, it was a monster as a, as a boy. That's what I would call it. Now, you know, I've heard other people say that and I understand why they would say it. Uh, but

• 24:21Speaker 05

  like I said, I've, I'm never, what I saw in two consecutive years in ninety six and ninety seven, when I was hunting with some gigantic brothers. Uh, the two oldest brothers of this group that invited me up to hunt with them in an area called One Creek Valley, which is northeast of Amherst. Uh, between little communities called Finley and Snow. Uh, it runs east off highway two seventy one. And, uh, anyway, ninety six, I saw something leading up from behind the house. We were trading beer cans for hay. Got real cold that deer whitetail gun season is when I was up there camping. These guys invited me up and it was the second year I was up there with them. And me and the oldest brother, who was about six, eight, three hundred seventy five pounds.

• 25:06Speaker 05

  Without question, the baddest human being I've ever known. Uh.

• 25:11Speaker 05

  He was, he was something else. But, uh, I go, I ride with him and his Jeep down to trade beer cans to this family up the road from where we were camping there in the valley. For hay. It rained so much it got muddy and our enclosure we'd built up in the trees there. We were, you know, water was running in. We were dragging muddy from outside. And so we wanted to put hay down on the floor. Anyway, we go down to trade with them. He told me he'd done it before. I hadn't. I just, like I said, they'd just invited me up there. We go up and out walked this old woman from the house when we pulled in there and two younger guys, probably mid twenties to thirty. And they were some big dudes.

• 25:52Speaker 05

  These guys were six-four, six-five, you know, three hundred pounds, uh, and very strange looking guys, uh. I hate to use the term inbred, but these guys might have been. They, they just had a, a simple look about them, if you know what I mean. Uh, but anyway, we're standing there and, and of course, the guy, Wes, doing the talking, you know, I'm just standing behind him. And he tells him what he wants and the old lady says, tells one of the boys to go get a couple of Bell's hay for us. And tells the other one to get the cans of, the beer cans and bags. We had them bagged up and trash bags, get them out of the Jeep. And, uh, we're standing there talking. Anyway, they, they get that done and Ron's talking to the old woman, the mom.

• 26:37Speaker 05

  That's what, she was the mother to these two things, I guess. That's well, that's how she introduced them as her sons. I'm just listening, not saying nothing. And, uh, two boys get the hay in there and get the cans out and they come back standing behind their mom. And, uh, she asked Ron, she says, well, were y'all hunting again? And Ron said, well, we're camped down here, you know, about. Three miles down on this side of the road, but we're hunting on the other side. And she goes, "Well, look out for old such and such." And for the life of me, I have tried. Like I said, this was 1996, and I can't remember the name she used, but it almost sounded like

• 27:19Speaker 05

  a foreign name, almost French, uh, I wanna say for some reason, but I can't remember the name. She said, "Look out for old such and such. It's an old hermit that stays up in there and we take supplies to him sometimes." And when she said it, she lowered her head and kinda peeked over at the boys and they lowered theirs and they all snickered. You know, kinda like there was an inside joke about what she had just said to us. And right as that happened, I just happened to look, we're about thirty yards from the front corner of the house on the east side, and at the back corner on the east side of

• 27:57Speaker 05

  this little house, right underneath the eve, I see what appears to be the head, left shoulder and left arm of a guy, very hairy guy with no shirt on, long beard, long hair, lean out from behind the house. And his head's up at the eve on this house. I'm talking, you know, nine, ten feet. And he, you know, he could've been standing on something, I don't know, but all I see is his head, his left shoulder and his left arm. And he ain't got no shirt on. And I wanna tell you, it's cold that year. That's why we were up there

• 28:40Speaker 05

  getting that aid. It was raining and it was cold. So it was around twenty, you know, low twenties probably, if I remember right. I got pneumonia that year, you know. When I got back, I had walking pneumonia. I had to go to the hospital and everything. But anyway, this, whatever this guy, this thing, didn't have no shirt on. With the deck coat and he was hairy. I mean, just, you know, that's all I could, but I didn't say nothing. Like I said, I'm already freaked out by these two standing in front of me and this old woman. I mean, these, these aren't your average people, you know, as I'm standing there, I'm, I'm, I'm already kind of weirded out, but I'm with this gigantic friend of mine. So I'm not scared, but I'm just, you know, I'm just keeping quiet. We get in the jeep to

• 29:20Speaker 05

  leave and I asked Ron if he saw it back there, seeing it. And he said, no, I didn't. He goes, hell, those two are strange enough. And I said, yeah. But I said, Ron, this thing was, you know, like I say, I'm talking to a guy at six, eight, three, seventy-five, and I'm not exaggerating. Man, you know, he's six, seven and a half, six, eight, three, seventy-five. And I told Ron, I said, he made, whatever this was, unless he was standing on something, you know, he made you look small, you know. And anyway, we don't say no more about it and go on. Well, the next year, they brought these, these group brothers, uh, that I'd been camping with for three years, brought their wives and kids up there. And, uh, back in

• 30:01Speaker 05

  those days, you know, our deer camp was kinda, you know, we had a few, you know, we, we had a few, some alcoholic beverages and stuff in the evening. And anyway, my dad had decided to come up and camp right down the road from where they were at. He built a, an enclosure with his truck tarp. He was driving a fat bad truck at the time. And, uh, me and my brother and my cousin decided not to camp with these brothers because their kids and stuff are there and you'd have to watch, what you were saying and, you know, what you were drinking and this and that. So we went and camped with my dad and my cousin was two years older than me. He wasn't much of an outdoorsman. He's a fisherman more than a

• 30:42Speaker 05

  hunter, but he, you know, he was like me. I wasn't much of a hunter either, but I did it all the time because it's what I grew up doing and was taught to do, what my dad and brother did and my whole family down here. But, uh, Me and him, everybody else was going across the valley to hunt. My dad, his brother-in-law at the time, and my brother. Well, me and my cousin Danny were staying by our camp. And we were walking up the mountain behind our camp to hunt. And there was a heavy game trail there, being run pretty steady by Big Buck. Anyway, we walk about, I don't know, probably a thousand yards up the mountain behind our camp there.

• 31:25Speaker 05

  And the time we get up there to this, what was oh, what would be, I don't know if you're familiar with logging terms, but you know, logging industry's heavy down here. But what we would call an old push road where Dozer had leveled about three quarters of the way up the mountain, had leveled a, you know, a surveyor's trail, if you want to call it that, and on the glade there, and leveled out a spot, you know, eight, nine feet wide. He said, "Hell, I'm just sitting down here." He didn't want to walk down to where that trail was. He was tired. So, we had been up, we couldn't sleep that night. They put us by the door of the enclosure because it got down to eighteen degrees.

• 32:05Speaker 05

  At three thirty a.m., he woke me up, my cousin did. We was up by the door, so it was colder on us. He woke me up and we checked the temperature and it was eighteen degrees. So, anyway, he said, "I'm just sitting down here." And I said, "Okay, I'm gonna walk on down here to where that trail's at." It was about four hundred and fifty yards probably from him. I got down there and sat down up against the tree overlooking this game trail. I probably hadn't been there five minutes.

• 32:32Speaker 05

  And I heard something like I've never heard in my life, the loudest. The best way I can describe it, it was a yell, scream, holler type thing. And it was tremendously loud. And it sounded like it was right back where I just left my cousin.

• 32:56Speaker 05

  And I jumped up and, you know, I'm, I'm concerned about him, but

• 33:03Speaker 05

  what I heard was, the volume of noise was so great that I hesitated to head back that way. I've never heard noth- I'd never heard nothing like it and nothing that loud in the woods. But I'm thinking, I don't know what this is, but hell, it may be killing my cousin. I've got to, you know, I've got to go and see if he needs help. And so I start heading back toward him and, uh, I got about halfway there and I see him heading toward me. And he's walking backwards toward me with his gun up on his shoulder.

• 33:38Speaker 05

  And so I stepped behind a tree and hollered at him because I don't want him to wheel around and shoot at me. Cause I knew he had to be scared because, I mean, I could tell that by him walking backwards like he was and holding the gun up. And the noise sounded like it came right there from him and I, so I hollered at him. I said, Danny, it's Dean. I said, what, what, what was that? He goes, I don't know. Did you hear that? And I said, well, everybody heard that. What was it? And he goes, I don't know, but it was right behind me. And, uh, so I let him come to me and we stand there and talk about it. And, uh, neither one of us wanted to go back the way we had come up down there where the noise came from. So we made our, it wasn't even a trail. We made our way down about killed ourselves going back down toward camp.

• 34:22Speaker 05

  Right where we were standing at that point, we kind of made a trail to get down the mountain. Uh, cause we wasn't going back over there where that noise had come from. And, uh,

• 34:33Speaker 05

  Danny never left the camp the rest of that year and he never went back in those woods again.

• 34:40Speaker 05

  Next day, I decide, being young and arrogant and cocky, I'm going to go back up there and just see, you know, if I can see any sign of, just trying to figure out, you know, uh, what could have made a noise like that.

• 34:58Speaker 05

  And so I get back up to where he had, you know, where I'd left him on that glade. And I look around, I don't see nothing, and I decide that I'm gonna go on up the mountain.

• 35:10Speaker 05

  And as I got on up there, it kinda opened up where the, what we were on was called Inoba Creek Wildlife Management Area at the time. It came down that far south into One Creek Valley. They used to mark the boundaries between that and private property by paint strips on trees. When there was a fence line, one side would be one color and I forget, or the public access land and the other side, the paint strip would be another color for private land. Well, I come to a fence and it was, I could see it was marked on the tree, so I knew, you know, I couldn't cross that fence. I'd be on private property, so I just kinda started walking down it toward it, toward the west.

• 35:47Speaker 05

  And I hadn't walked twenty, thirty yards and out in front of me on the private side of the fence, leaning out from behind this big tree, is what looked like what I'd seen the year before behind this house. Uh, and like I say, you know, it's eighteen, nineteen degrees, twenty maybe by then, time I got up there. Once again, I'm seeing the right shoulder this time instead of the left of you, like I did the year before. I'm seeing the head, the right shoulder and right arm leaning out from behind the tree, looking at me from about thirty-five yards away.

• 36:22Speaker 05

  And

• 36:24Speaker 05

  gigantic, I don't, you know, estimate in height because it's leaning, you know, I mean, he was, he was over, this guy, this thing had to be over seven feet tall. Without question, you know, from that distance, I could tell that, unless it was standing on something. Once again, I couldn't see the lower half of its body. But it's just staring at me, not moving. And, uh, so I raised my hand, kinda waved at it, you know, let it know, you know, I see ya, you know? Cause I, I don't know what this is, you know, I don't know if it's a, you know, a man or something like what I saw when I was a boy, right here, in seventy-five, I don't know. It just looked unusual.

• 37:06Speaker 05

  And it don't move. It don't acknowledge my hand wave. And I thought, you know what? I was carrying a lever action Marlin 3030. And I have never cocked that on any kind of human or modern person or anything other than an animal I was hunting. But I cocked that rifle and I headed down that mountain and I stopped three times on my way back to camp and sat and watched for 10, 15 minutes, making sure my back trail was clear, make sure this thing wasn't following me.

• 37:37Speaker 05

  And made it back to camp and told my cousin, I think I saw what made the noise. And it's what I told you I saw with Ron last year. It looked just like what I saw that year before leaning out from behind that house.

• 37:52Wes Germer?

  Yeah, you know, Dean, I have so many questions for you. I want to back up for a moment. When you were a little boy and you ran into that creature when your dog ran off. Um, yeah, a lot of eyewitnesses will say, when it showed me its teeth, you know, like a non-human prime, you'll hear a lot of Bigfoot researchers go, well, non-human primates will show you their teeth when they're threatened or they're pissed, which is true. Um, and sometimes eyewitnesses will say that they'll say, man, it showed me its teeth and it looked like it was pissed. But then you'll also have other eyewitnesses that will say, yeah, it showed me its teeth, but God, it seemed like it was almost like smiling

• 38:32Wes Germer?

  at me. And that was kind of your impression. I mean, did you get that impression based on the fact that it looked so human like?

• 38:42Speaker 05

  Well, exactly. This was no ape. Yeah, this was some kind of a man. That's why I say smile. And, you know, it had a

• 38:55Speaker 05

  try to be sensitive here to your listeners, but it looked mentally challenged.

• 39:02Speaker 05

  It, you know, if you've been around adult folks that are mentally challenged, you know, I don't want to be, like I said, I'm trying not to be harsh here, but they'll have a kind of a, I don't want, maybe a dull look, if you want to describe it that way, you know, a simple look about them. This thing had that. And so that in itself.

• 39:24Speaker 05

  You know, it wasn't with the apes when they showed you the teeth, that's an intimidation thing, you know. It's showing, look what I can, look what I got to do some harm to you with. Never got that impression with this thing because like I say, this was no ape. Now, I don't know what other people have seen around the world that they described similarly. Maybe there's something else out there that's a little more primitive, more like an ape. I don't know. Uh, but what I saw, uh, in seventy-five up close, this was some type of a man. And I say man because it had eyes, nose, ears, you know, hands, feet, legs, arms, everything.

• 40:04Speaker 05

  Uh, it was built like a man, right down to the genitalia, you know? I mean, this, this was a man of some kind. Uh, you tell me what a man that's gigantic in nature, covered in hair, you know, with no clothes on is doing in southwestern Pushpatahaw County, Oklahoma in nineteen seventy-five. I've struggled with that for almost fifty years and I ain't never come up with a good answer, you know? But what I have discovered over that time in this area, there has been other sightings and, uh, there was a family two miles west of here, late twenty nineteen, early twenty

• 40:45Speaker 05

  twenty, that got ran out of their home over here, uh, just two miles west. And the children described the same thing as what I saw in seventy-five. They, I mean, they described it identically according to the investigator. That one of the investigators that investigated this, uh, these incidents that happened over here two miles west of where I'm sitting right now and where I had my sighting in seventy-five. And one of them's a prominent guy from up here at Hughes County, Oklahoma is where he's out of. And, you know, I don't know what what your policy is. I don't want to put the guy on the spot, but everybody would know his name if I said it. And I didn't

• 41:29Speaker 05

  know, you know, until I start, I found this story in 2022 and put it together because they were open with the location. I just kind of from some of the things they said. And I knew where he was at. And he told me the distance, you know, it took him to get down here. And anyway, I put it together that, you know, they mentioned the name of the old road. Now they've got numbers on these county roads here in Push County, nine four nine one one purposes. But back then, people, you know, people roll around here still, they still use the old road names, you know, that had been there for years. And they mentioned that old road name. So I knew that it was right over here. But so it's

• 42:10Speaker 05

  still, they're still seeing them around here. I don't think there's a lot of people investigating. There's one group here in Oklahoma, well, two, actually, that I know of that's done some investigating, but you got the muddy boggy just to the west of me. And you got McGee Creek State Park with the lake and McGee Creek and Patapa Creek and Panther Creek, Bear Creek all feed into it from the north right over here. Just a lot of running water around here. You know what I'm saying? Fresh water, you know, big places, you know, there's not, there's not a ton of people, even though I'm sitting here right now, I can hear the traffic right here on Highway three. You know, I'm just, the old house back in those

• 42:50Speaker 05

  days, the old highway was about 50 yards, 60 yards farther north. So where I seen it in the woods was probably 500 yards from the highway. But I think there's, there's still a lot of sightings around here. People just don't report them, you know, they never have. They kind of keep it to their self.

• 43:10Wes Germer?

  Yeah. And I know that in part two, we're going to go into the return back to the property. It's interesting what you say about its appearance. I've talked to many eyewitnesses. And one thing they'll say often is it looked like it had Down syndrome.

• 43:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's the term. I mean, and that's kind of, you know, I guess you could, you could use that term. I've heard that too, over the years. I just, you know, I just said mentally challenged because, you know. I don't know why I said that, that just, you know. But, uh, I've heard that, I've heard down syndrome too. Yeah, I guess you could describe it that way, but this, what I've seen in seventy-five up close, in daylight, it had that look about it. And of course, I could say at night at the window, you know, I was only twelve feet from it. I was actually closer at night.

• 43:57Wes Germer?

  Well, what do you make of it coming up, that whole behavior of it coming up to the window?

• 44:02Speaker 05

  What, what do I make of it? I make of it intelligence. And what I mean by that is curiosity. And, uh, I think, well, I don't know how to say this right, but I think that children and women are not perceived as, as much of a threat as a modern man is to them. And so they'll come up closer and, and maybe watch longer, you know, even if they're hidden. But I think they show theirself. Lady that owns the museum over here at Tallahassee, Oklahoma, I'm not going to use her name, but

• 44:42Speaker 05

  you can find her, she's, she's public on social media and puts on a conference up here every year now. They just had it here a few months ago. But, uh, she had a daylight sighting when they moved here from Dallas, Texas. They had been around the property, her husband drove a truck and, long story short, one showed itself to her like it did me as a boy. And I think a lot of that has to do with they had watched her and I think I'd probably been watched multiple times before it showed itself to me. Cause it definitely showed itself to me, you know, I wouldn't have known it was there if it didn't want me to know as a boy, you know? I didn't stumble upon it. You know what I'm saying? I didn't sneak up on it. It had been watching me probably and just decided, you know, it's going to step out, you know?

• 45:27Speaker 05

  Ain't no telling how many times it'd watch me. It's like, say in this particular area, uh, I'm convinced there's been a family group here for decades. But now whether they stay here year round, I'm not sure about that, you know? I think they're basically nomadic hunter gatherers. Uh, they would have to be to live in the manner that it would take to survive. And, uh, omnivores and opportunists as far as food, shelter, and, uh, water's the key down here in this part of the world, anyway. Anywhere around the water, if you go to researching it, you'll find that most of the sightings happen within close proximity of freshwater.

• 46:11Wes Germer?

  Yeah, it sounds like a good environment for them. I want to go back for a moment and talk about the lady you bought hay from with those two sons. How far away from your home is that lady's place that you bought the hay from?

• 46:28Speaker 05

  Well, I'm sitting right now. I'm looking at that old house. It's the only thing left on the property from when I was a kid. I'm actually standing here at the door of the shop, looking out at it. So it's probably 25 miles, maybe?

• 46:45Wes Germer?

  Yeah, as the crow flies. I mean, that woman was pretty close to where you lived. Uh, there was an incident, I kind of want to jump ahead to 2000. Tell me about this incident in 2000.

• 46:59Speaker 05

  Well, it was a primitive arms season, late October, uh, 2000. And, uh, my brother shows up at my house up in New Walla, Oklahoma, saying, hey, let's go to the mountains, you know, it's open season. I'd never hunted primitive arms, you know, he had just got into it, but I'd never went with him. And, you know, we would hunt together during gun season. That's when I hunted, you know, which I wasn't an avid hunter, you know, I did it to get in the woods more than anything. And my father expected it. My family kind of expected it of you. But long story short, he shows up unannounced. I'd been up all night with a friendly young woman that I knew at the time, and had just got to bed. He shows up

• 47:40Speaker 05

  at 11:30 on a Friday after Friday morning, saying, let's go to the mountains and hunt. I said, I don't even have a, I don't have a gun or anything. He said, I bought a new, one of these new inline whatever, black powder fancy ones. You can use my old musket. And I'm thinking, hey, you know, where you going? He said, hey, we're going back up there to Cloudy, you know, where I've been hunting with dad. And I knew there was a nice creek right there and it backed up on a low water crossing. Made a nice little pool, about three hundred yards long. Unbelievable fishing. So that's what I'm thinking. So I'm getting my pole and he's hurrying me. And I said, well, you know, I didn't even have a gun at the time of any kind. And I said, we need a, you know, a gun for protection.

• 48:23Speaker 05

  Well, I've got my shotgun, I'm a three fifty seven and my Jimmy out there. And just, you know, come on, let's go, let's go. So I'm hurrying around and I don't know what I, I grabbed a sleeping bag and, you know, a coat and, you know, change of clothes and threw them in the bag. And anyway, he gets, he gets me in the truck quick and I forget shit. And I found out later where I forgot some important stuff. But anyway, we head off to southeastern Oklahoma and it's about four hours to get, a little over four hours to get from New Walla to Cloudy, which is where we were going. At that time, that area was still part of an Obra Creek Wildlife Management Area.

• 49:04Speaker 05

  So you could buy a forty dollar annual permit that gave you access year for a year. For forty dollars, you could access this property for twelve months. So we were hunting that a lot at that time. We quit hunting up there in One Creek Valley. I had, I'd stayed up there longer than my cousin. Like I said, my cousin and my brother never went back in those woods up there in One Creek Valley after what, you know, what happened up there. But my brother had come down here to Cloudy, started hunting with my dad and my cousins. And they were successful. So, but I'd been up in there and I'd fished. So that's what I was gonna do. I made sure I got my fishing stuff before we left. But anyway, we get there and so I, I'd been up all night. And so the first night.

• 49:46Speaker 05

  I went to bed early. I fished and then right after dark, I got in the tent. He'd bought a brand new tent. And one of those dome tents, you know, one of the first ones that come out with it popped up real quick and easy, you know? And so I went in there and laid down, went to sleep. He stayed up and my brother, he was a lot more of a drinker than what I was. He liked his beer. So he stood out there drinking beer and uh. Next morning, when I get up, he says, uh, keep your eyes open. He says, uh, I think I had two men, one from up the hill and one from down toward the creek walk up surround the camp last night.

• 50:26Speaker 05

  And I said, do what? And he says, yeah. He goes, sounded like two men walking. And I'd walk out toward them, holler at them, you know, and they were on either side of me. One was up the hill from me and one was down the hill, he said. He'd walk out toward them and he'd hear them walk away. And when he'd stop walking, he said, they'd stop walking. And he'd turn and walk back to camp and they'd, they'd start walking back toward the camp behind him. But whenever he stopped, they would stop. They never would respond to him. He said, you know, it was dark. He said, I couldn't tell how close I was to them. He was shining a light, but he never saw nothing. But anyway, he says, they may try to rob us.

• 51:06Speaker 05

  And I said, okay, you know, I'm, where's that 357? So he goes to his truck. I said, that one shot, you know, you gotta reload them black powders. And I said, you know, I want something else. And he can't find the 357. And I said, well, where's the shotgun you said you had in your Jimmy? He can't find it. He took them out to clean them, but he'd forgot. He'd never put them back in the Jimmy like he thought he had. So we're up there with just two black powder rifles is all we've got. And it's raining around, misty. Which is not a big deal for his new, new style, but my old musket, you know, it's a big deal when there's moisture, you know, powder gets wet easy in those and they don't shoot.

• 51:47Speaker 05

  But anyway, I let it go, don't think about it. I'm going down fishing. I start catching fish. I forget all about it. It's not a big deal. And I put my gun up under a tree there, big heavy pine. It's pine forest is what it is, you know, it's. Property's actually owned by one of the big timber companies, Warehouser, Georgia Pacific, Renee. Uh, I'm not sure which owned it back then, but they, they give the state, they have a deal with the state to lease it. That's what Three Rivers Wildlife Management Area down here in Southeast Oklahoma and Inoba Creek, or actually Timber Corporation land. They have a deal with the state that allows, allows you to access it for a fee. So anyway, that being said.

• 52:27Speaker 05

  But you know, we're out all day. We don't see each other and he's out hunting all day, I guess, and I stay out fishing and actually fall asleep again. Down by the creek down there, underneath the tree next to the gun there, it started sprinkling around. I got up underneath that big pine on the pine. It was where it was dry. And to sleep, but I don't know, probably. I guess maybe an hour and a half before dark. Come back up and I know he had said he had brought some deer meat. For us to eat. So boy, I got to digging around in the ice chest and sitting behind the tent. I find it. So I get it out. I start making dinner. Very soon he comes dragging in dead dog tired, been hunting, you know, hard all day. So we make a fine meal that evening and.

• 53:11Speaker 05

  Big meal, really pigged out.

• 53:15Speaker 05

  And then we're, you know, it got dark by the time we finished, cleaned up. So we're sitting around the campfire there, which was about. Seven, eight feet off the back corner of that tent. Had a few beers. This was Saturday night. He goes, I'm going in, going to sleep. I'm exhausted. Well, I've got good night, you know, I'd been asleep that afternoon, slept good that night. So I was feeling pretty good and I wasn't drinking the beer like he was, you know, I'd had a few, but. I was fooled, but yeah, I was enjoying it. It was beautiful night, you know, the rain had quit and. So I'm, I just stayed up by the campfire and thought, well, I'll let the campfire burn down, you know, and watch it. Cause we're, we're in a pine forest, you know? You gotta really be careful with your fires. Anyway, fire gets down to where I think it's safe. Burned out basically just some coals and.

• 54:01Speaker 05

  I had brought a lawn chair to sleep on. Anyway, I go in and I'm trying to. This lawn chair kinda turned over when I get up that morning. Anyway, I'm trying to get it straight. Get it out, you know, and my brother saw and logged right next to me on the other side of ten on a cot. He don't even know what I'm doing. He don't even hear me. Anyway, I go to get on that lawn chair. Just one of them lawn chairs that lay flat. The old ones that used to lay flat, you know. You see women sun tanning on is one of those so I could lay flat on it. But anyway, I tried to get on it. At that time, I was probably two fifteen. And I got over on the, on the leg too far, I guess. And that thing just buckled underneath me, that leg just bent.

• 54:42Speaker 05

  So there I am, my cot, my, my sleeping apparatus is ruined. So I go to fold it up and unzip the tent door and chuck it outside. Make out my sleeping bag on the floor of the tent and I had, oh, I forgot a pillow. When he was hurrying me to leave that day before. I'd forgot a pillow, so I was taking this brand new camouflage rain jacket. That's first time I'd ever used it. I'd bought it that year sometime after last year's hunting season and uh. I'm using it as a pillow and I stuff it into the corner of the tent. Back at the back where the ice chests was stacked on the outside. The fire is to my left, about seven, eight feet. But anyway, I wasn't laying there five minutes and I started hearing a strange noise.

• 55:27Speaker 05

  And first, I don't, I can't, I don't know what this noise is, you know. And it's, it's kinda, it's very faint, you know, but I, I'm hearing it and it's steady. So I go to listen and it's coming from, we were right in the corner of a tee. There's a, the road teed right there. One that went down the mountain to the creek is washed out and the other one went down about another three hundred yards and went. Ended up in the cul-de-sac and then the other one was what you drove in on. So we're right there at this tee where all these roads split. And under the trees and uh. I realized that noise coming from that road that went down the mountain that I'd been walking down to go down to the creek and fish. Had a big tin horn down there that was washed out, so you couldn't use that road no more.

• 56:12Speaker 05

  Anyway, it's coming from that road, it sounded like, right over there, about twenty-five feet, I would guess, on the north side of the tent. And, uh, pretty soon the noise gets closer and I realize that what I'm hearing sounds like breathing of some kind, like some kind of animal breathing. But my lord, you know, I'm thinking of how far that road is and how I'm hearing this and I'm thinking, what could be breathing that loud, you know? And so it had moved a little closer and just kind of stayed stationary, the breathing, or what I

• 56:55Speaker 05

  thought was breathing, I wasn't for sure at that point. And then it moved right up outside the tent, you know, kind of even with the tent, and just stayed there. It would stay motionless and stay in one spot for about five minutes. You know, it moved three different times, and as it got closer to the outside of the tent, the breathing got louder, and when it was right at, you know, the last time it stopped and stood there, or whatever, you know, stayed motionless,

• 57:23Speaker 05

  I could tell then that this was breathing I'm hearing. And I can't believe it, you know? I just can't believe how loud it is, and from twenty feet, I shouldn't be hearing breathing like that loud. So I'm trying to figure out what in the heck I'm hearing. And there is, there was some cattle that, there was private property there, you know, not too far from where we were at. They would let their cattle loose to graze up on that wildlife management area. So I know there was cattle in there, and a lot of people don't know this, but there's wild horses down here in southeastern Oklahoma. A lot of people don't believe that, but there is. I've seen a hundred of them, if I've seen one. And so I'm thinking it's one of those two, it has to be, you know? Or a bear.

• 58:09Speaker 05

  We have a lot of black bear down here, a lot more than most people think. Pretty soon, whatever this is, comes off the road and walks in behind the tent. Right in the back of me, behind my head. And stops. And it blocked out the moon. It totally made the tent go black. And the breathing's up above the top of this tent, which the top of the tent was about five and a half feet, this dome tent, right? You just had to stoop over a little bit. I'm about, I was about, I'm about five eleven, so I had to stoop over just a little bit. My brother could stand up in it. He was only about five foot eight, but I had to bend just a little bit. But whatever this is, that walked in behind the tent, the breathing's higher than the tent. That's obvious, as I'm laying there listening.

• 58:54Speaker 05

  And it blocked out. We had a full moon that night. And when I laid down, I noticed that the moon was coming through the branches and, you know, lighting up the tent. And it blocked it out completely. So, at this point, I'm realizing.

• 59:12Speaker 05

  It'd been raining, and when we come in, we put the guns in the Jimmy. We never got them back out. I'm in this tent with nothing. My brother always carried a big hunting knife on his belt. I knew it was over there in his pants somewhere, but, and we had a little old battery-operated lamp in there. Other than that, I'm, I'm barehanded in here. Anyway, whatever this is, starts shuffling the ice chest around, right behind my head.

• 59:39Speaker 05

  And the breathing, like I said, and once it got behind the tent, I can't comprehend this breathing that I'm hearing. I've been close to big animals in the zoo, uh, close to every kind of big domestic animal you want to name. I've never heard breathing like this. This thing's taking in air and exhaling hair, air. And taking ten seconds to do it. I can't imagine the lungs, whatever this is.

• 1:00:07Speaker 05

  Shuffles the ice chest around and at this point, I'm more than scared. I am really scared. So I pulled the sleeping bag up over my mouth and stuff, trying to hide my breathing from whatever this is. I didn't want whatever this is to know where I'm at in that tent, right? It moves around right to the side of the tent where my head's at and I hear a shuffling and that breathing drops from up high and it dropped right to my head.

• 1:00:40Speaker 05

  I'm on the floor, you know, the bottom of the tent. I, I broke my chair, so I'm laying flat. My head on this camouflage jacket right in the corner. The breathing's right on the outside of the material of the tent, right against my head all of a sudden. Then it starts sniffing.

• 1:00:58Speaker 05

  And when I say sniffing, I'm not talking like a normal animal, you know? Quick burst of sniffing. This thing was taking in air. I can't duplicate it. I'll cough, I'm a smoker and I tried to duplicate it.

• 1:01:11Speaker 05

  I can't do it, but I can't even get close to how long it draws. It, it drew in air, then how long it exhaled after it sniffed, you know what I'm saying? A big inhale, big exhale, right at my head.

• 1:01:26Speaker 05

  Well, at this point, I'm panicked. And I thought, well, whatever this is, I'm gonna scare it off. So I raise up and I slap the side of that tent as hard as I can and I yell, "Hey!" The top of my lungs.

• 1:01:44Speaker 05

  It don't, I just hear a little shuffling, it don't, whatever this is, doesn't, you know, I, I, I expected something to run off, right? I'm hoping something would run off.

• 1:01:53Speaker 05

  It didn't. It just, the breathing just went high again. So it went from down low and, you know, I'm gonna use the term stood up because the breathing went high. And the next thing I hear is what sounds like water hitting the outside of the tent. My brother's coming to life after I'd yelled, you know, what are you? And, and I'm over next to his cot at this point. I've done crawled over there on that side of the tent and I'm covering his mouth so he don't say nothing. And I'm whispering to him, is this what you heard last night? When I did that, he woke up, you know, when, when I covered his mouth, it kind of startled him and he looked over toward that side of the tent. He hears the breathing and he hears the, what sounded like water hitting the side of the tent.

• 1:02:39Speaker 05

  And he said, what in the blank is that? And I said, I don't know. Is this what you heard? He said, no, I didn't hear nothing like that. What is it? And I said, I don't know. Walked in a few, few minutes ago, you know? And it stood outside of camp and observed us. I heard the breathing and then it came into camp. You know, we're just talking normal now because I know it knows where I'm at because it dropped right to my head and spiffed me through the tent forever. You know, like I said, I hollered, I know it, it knows we're in there.

• 1:03:06Speaker 05

  And then we start to smell urine.

• 1:03:11Speaker 05

  Whatever this was, when I hollered and hit the tent, it stood up and started pissing on the outside of the tent. And, you know, so I'm telling my brother, you know, he goes, is, you know, I said, it's, it's pissed. I told him what I'd done, you know, and he said, well, that's what must've woke me up is you all. I said, it, it just raised up and started pissing on the tent. That was his only response to me doing that. I said, I gotta see what this is. So I grabbed his little lantern there. It was right by the head of his cot. The little bitty battery, you know, we used to use in the bathroom in the middle of the night. And I head for the door to unzip it and he jumps up out of that cot and gets between me and the door. Pretty soon we're wrestling for the zipper on the door. And he's like, you ain't undoing that door. I said, it knows where, I'm telling him, it knows we're in here, you know?

• 1:03:56Speaker 05

  I just want to get a look. I'm just going to unzip it a little bit, just get a look. And like I said, he was my older brother for three and a half years, shorter, but stockier and he was strong. And, uh, I didn't want to knock the tent down. So, you know, I wasn't giving him my all, but we're wrestling around and arguing. And this thing moved when it, it quit pissing, it moved from the corner of the tent where it was urinating, where my head was, had been laying to right outside the door. So it's standing right outside where we're standing. And, you know, and I know this because of the breathing, you know, you could hear the breathing plain as day over us talking, you could hear the breathing. That's how loud it was. And it's standing right outside the door like it was just waiting for us to open that door and look at it, you know.

• 1:04:40Speaker 05

  Well, my brother ain't having none of it. Then, whatever this is, lets out a tremendous holler, similar to what I'd heard three years earlier with my cousin. It went through your body. I mean, it hit you like a concussion wave. And, uh, after it hollered, it turned and started walking down the hill. And as it went, we didn't know at the time, but we're hearing it. You start hearing tree breaks, tremendous tree breaks, as it's moving away.

• 1:05:20Speaker 05

  It's not stopping to break these tree branches off, it's doing it as it's walking. Gets out of earshot, and my brother relaxes, and I move him out of the way, unzip it, hold the deal out, of course, I don't see nothing, but what I notice is, when it, after it hollered and it walked off, what we were hearing breaking was six, seven inch branches that were ten, twelve feet up in these pine trees. It was ripping them out of the trees and dropping them on the ground, but, you know, as it walked, apparently. And some of them, when I got to looking, after I got out of the tent, some of them were twisted. They weren't pulled out of the tree, they were twisted in place, hanging from the tree. You know what I mean?

• 1:06:04Speaker 05

  And so I'm tripping over these branches, trying to walk down this hill to get a look at it. And my brother's standing behind me going, "Where are you going, you idiot?" You know, he's hollering at me. "You don't even have a gun." And I said, "Man, if it wanted to get us, it would've got us. I just want to get a look at it." So I follow it for, and I can hear it still, once I got on down there, I could hear it out in front of me. I follow it for probably... I don't know, maybe sixty yards with that little lantern. There was a spot where that tin on was washed out, that was a low spot. And I was on the outside when I dropped off this little hill. And it was just, it sounded like it was just on the other side of this little opening

• 1:06:47Speaker 05

  in the tree line, not far from me, and it had stopped moving. I couldn't hear it moving anymore. And once again, what my brother described the night before, this is, it sounded like a man on two feet, but extremely heavy, you know. Uh, but I realized that it quit moving. And I thought, well, I ain't gonna walk into this thing, you know, with no weapon. You know, if it's right on the other side of this clearing, like it sounded like it was, you know, I'm not, I'm not going any farther. And I turned and go back to camp. And, uh, we get the fire going again and get to talking about it. I brought up seventy-five. We'd never talked about it. Like I said, the, the day I told you about seventy-five, when I had sighting twice, one

• 1:07:30Speaker 05

  day, me and my brother had never talked about it, me and my parents had never talked about it all these years, you know. But I said to him, I said, Mike, do you think this could have been what we seen at our window when we were a kid? And he said, you know, I don't know what else, I don't know what it, what, what else could it have been? And I said, well, I'm gonna tell you this, I don't know what it was. I said, I damn sure know what it wasn't. There ain't no animal that I'm aware of up in these woods that can do everything that this thing just did, you know? Just can't do it, no animal. Well, our father and his brother, his older brother, our uncle, showed up about a half hour before dawn and, and we're telling them about it. My uncle was a preacher and I'd never spoke, I never backtalked my uncle my whole life,

• 1:08:15Speaker 05

  but he made a comment, well, you dumb old city boys, probably was a stray dog or a cow or something. And boy, it made me mad, you know? Might as well call me ignorant. So I let him have it pretty good and cussed in front of him, I'd never done that. So let me tell you something, I know what it wasn't, I just don't know what it was. And I said, let me show you, get up, come over. I told him and my father, let me show you these branches down here, it pulled out and twisted when it left.

• 1:08:44Speaker 05

  My dad got up and came with me. It was the first time in my life he couldn't give me an answer. When I showed him what, you know, what had been done to these trees. He couldn't, he couldn't give me an answer what done that. My uncle never would get up. He just, oh, you guys, just city boys up here got scared, you know, he didn't want to look. But I also found what appeared to be right at the corner of my tent where it sniffed me or dropped down to my head. Like I said, the fire was over there. We'd swept the pine needles away from where we built the fire. On the edge of those pine needle sweeps, you know, where it was dirt, this was hard pack rocky ground too up in this area. But I found what appeared to be an impression of what looked like the back half of a footprint, like a hill. And the rest of it was pressed down in the needles in the front. So there was no definition.

• 1:09:28Speaker 05

  And where it walked in off the road, when it got daylight, I looked and I found deep impressions into the pine needles. You know, there's no definition. But these impressions were five feet apart and probably 20 inches long, you know, where the pine needles did not spring back up all the way, you know, whatever had stepped and compressed them down was so heavy that they couldn't compress back up even with the rest of the needles. All that being said, don't know what it was, but I know what it wasn't.

• 1:10:04Wes Germer?

  Yeah, you know, there's so many accounts of Sasquatch peeing on people's tents. I've had many eyewitnesses on that have experienced this. I even had one guy on one time. He was in a hammock and he was out there in the woods and one of these things actually peed on him. Uh, there's a little bit more to the story than that, but that behavior is so strange to me, but you do hear it a lot. And I want to get to this incident, the final incident that happened in 2015, uh, with your return back to the property. And I'm so glad you're coming back for a part two, because I have so many questions. One thing that's

• 1:10:43Wes Germer?

  nagging on me, going back to that old woman that you bought hay from, what, what's your honest opinion on that whole situation? Because the way you describe it, it just sounds creepy.

• 1:10:56Speaker 05

  It was more than creepy.

• 1:11:00Speaker 05

  I, over the years, I, I thought about it and Gus Stone made that documentary for the Southern Bigfoot Alliance was him and Brian Hootman, the first two I ever spoke to about these things. First people that I didn't know. I'd only spoken to a few people, but those are the first people I didn't know that I spoke to with when I decided to come out after all these years and talk about it. But, uh, he asked me the very same thing. He was like you, Gus, very intelligent guy. Uh, and so his, he said, you know, all the other stuff's fascinating, but he goes, I'm interested in that family. And I, you know, and he asked me some very poignant questions. And, uh, one of them was, do you think that,

• 1:11:41Speaker 05

  you know, they were talking about what you seen and it was one of these wild men, you know, I call them wild men to Gus, you know, I just don't, I hate the term Bigfoot, so I use wild man mostly. But anyway, I said, you know, I wondered that very same thing. Uh, and because they knew, they actually told us, you know, there's an old hermit and they called it by a strange name that was up in there that we take supplies to sometimes, don't shoot him. And then they looked at each other, you know, kind of out of the corner of their eyes with their head down, the old woman and the two boys, and they chuckled like there was an inside joke, you know. And like I said, I, I see this thing

• 1:12:19Speaker 05

  laying out from behind their house. So, that being said, it's, it's really weird. I, I've had all kinds of things go through my head, you know, after, you know, all the research I've done, I've heard stories from, the Native American stuff really intrigued me when I was young because, you know, they, they told us about these things. When white men come over here in this part of the world, they told us about them and we didn't believe them, you know, they're ignorant savages, so we didn't believe them. But everything they told us back in those days, that's, that's written down, what they told us and what white men recorded, what they said, has, is really accurate. If you think, if you go back and dig, and it's all across North America, almost every tribe has a word

• 1:12:59Speaker 05

  for it, you know, and, and describe the same thing. But this family, I would use, in all honesty, I came to this conclusion, these boys were inbred.

• 1:13:13Speaker 05

  Now, I don't know if you've ever been around inbred hillbillies.

• 1:13:18Speaker 05

  I have, unfortunately, down here when I was very young. And, uh, that's what they reminded me of. Now, it's the first time I'd ran into them as an adult, anything like that, you know? But my instincts, my gut tells me that they were product of a close bloodline relationship. Now, they're and I'm, I'm just, I'm not gonna, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, Wes, but I think what you're asking is what was their relationship with what I saw? And I just don't know, you know, uh, they were aware of it. So they said they took supplies to a hermit. Don't shoot, don't shoot such and such.

• 1:14:04Speaker 05

  God, I wish I could remember the name. I have struggled. It's a name that I, I'd heard before. Uh, it's almost, it, it is French-sounding, you know, uh.

• 1:14:15Wes Germer?

  Yeah, the only French word I can think of, or French-like word, is the luguru. But that usually refers to something else, not Sasquatch.

• 1:14:25Speaker 05

  No, it wasn't ruguru, but it was, it was a similar sounding, you know, and I can't, I, like I said, it was really strange. It's not something that you, you know, even if you do remember, your chances of pronouncing it right is gonna be slim to none, you know? But they're what they were, I think they were talking about what I saw behind the house. And what I saw the next year up there leaning out behind the tree, after my cousin and me had heard that vocalization, it looked like what I saw leaning out behind that house year before. I mean, the hair pattern, uh, it had, it, it didn't have black skin, it had real dark, leathery brown skin. Uh, this one did. With black hair.

• 1:15:10Speaker 05

  But it was about the same length of hair as what I saw in seventy-five. Wasn't this big woolly, you know, which I've looked into that, Wes, and I think in certain regions of the world where the, the climate's a little more harsh. In other words, like a dog, what's a dog do? Grows in a, more hair for the winter, don't it, than it sheds? Everything I've found makes me think these things may do that to some degree. I know that kind of sounds outlandish, but what I've seen wasn't shaggy haired like I've seen other people describe, you know?

• 1:15:44Wes Germer?

  Yeah, and for the audience, I'll be doing a part two with Dean tomorrow night with his return to the property. Man, I have a million questions for you, Dean. Kind of a last question I want to ask you tonight, and I ask everyone, and you got a great look at this creature. And you kind of alluded to it earlier, but what do you think Sasquatch is? And there's no wrong answer.

• 1:16:07Speaker 05

  No, there is, there's no right answer, you know, we don't know. I mean, I think there's people that do know. But it's not public knowledge. What do I think they are? I think they, for the most part. I think they're hybrids. Now, what do I mean by that? I think there was an original bloodline, a big hominid.

• 1:16:32Speaker 05

  And I think there's still some left, and I think they're mostly in the northern regions and the real remote areas where the bloodline is pure. But I think they've interbred with every type of primitive man there has been. How many, how many primitive men are these so-called experts say that they've found? That's just what they admit to. If you get, you go down the line, and I have researched it. You got, you know, Cro-Magnon, Neanderthal, Heidelberg Guinness, Australia Pithecus. The Cenovans, now they just found, uh, these little short hobbit-like, I can't remember what they called them, but they found them on the island of Florence here a few years ago. I think they, this original bloodline has interbred with other humanoids. And so I think they're hybrids is what we see around here.

• 1:17:16Speaker 05

  You know, in most parts of the world, they're actually hybrids.

• 1:17:20Speaker 05

  And that goes back to, you know, Eastern Europe, Russia, Siberia. The Caucasus over there, what they describe as the Old Mostie.

• 1:17:29Speaker 05

  They're more man-like, you know, than what people describe the Yeti being, you know, uh, the stuff in the high Himalaya. That's described as a little more animalistic, uh, and that may be the actual original bloodline now. That's the only thing I can come up with after 50 years is mostly hybrid bloodlines between different hominids, you know? They've interbred, some of them had, you know, multiple bloodlines, some of them may just have two. In other words, they're just like us. Wes? They're just like us. They are different heights, different weights, different sizes, different colors, different temperaments. I think if we can get past this animal thing,

• 1:18:09Speaker 05

  this ape thing, and think of them in terms of being like modern man, you know, and having all the differences that modern man, a Chinese man doesn't look like a Native American man. You know, a European man doesn't look like a Chinese man. You know what I'm saying? Polynesian doesn't look like a, you know, a Russian. So I think that's what you get with these. Uh, I think they all look, they can be different depends on what part of the country you're in and based on environment and diet. That's why you get so many different descriptions, I believe.

• 1:18:44Wes Germer?

  Yeah, that's a good answer, Dean. That's a fair answer. It's one of the things, one of the questions I struggle the most with, you know, uh, Matt Pruitt and I were talking about this last week, you know, why is it that some of the eyewitnesses say what I saw looked like a great ape? I mean, it had a human nose and some features that are human like, and then you get other eyewitnesses that are like, no, what I saw was a man or, you know, a woman. It was a prehistoric humanoid type creature, very human like in the face. And I'm so glad that you're coming back for a part two, Dean. I can't wait. And I can't wait to hear, cause I know when you went back to the property after, you know, 40, 50 some

• 1:19:28Wes Germer?

  odd years, uh, and you're there now, there's been some weird things that have happened that didn't happen when you were younger and I want to talk to you about those. Uh, but thank you so much for taking the time to come on for this part one. I really enjoyed chatting with you.

• 1:19:45Speaker 05

  Hey, no problem, buddy. It's good to talk to you. I enjoyed it.

• 1:19:48Wes Germer?

  Thanks again, Dean. And join me tomorrow night as we wrap up with, uh, the Chronicles of Dean and, uh, the whole part two of him going back to the property. Definitely don't want to miss it. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is [email protected]. And if you get a chance, check out sasquatchchronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone.

• 1:20:20Speaker 06

  I'm blind.

• 1:20:41Speaker 06

  And red clothes.

• 1:20:49Speaker 06

  Treading on broken glass, feeling the weight of dark, looking for a white star.

• 1:21:03Speaker 06

  I'm fine.

• 1:21:10Speaker 06

  I'm a liar.

• 1:21:18Speaker 06

  In a peculiar state of mind, traveling back in time, I wanna be a white star.

• 1:21:33Speaker 06

  I don't care if I die, even if I'm a dead man.

• 1:21:48Speaker 06

  I don't care if I die, even if I'm a dead man.

• 1:22:01Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 1:22:09Speaker 06

  I'm like me.

• 1:22:17Speaker 06

  Stood at the speed of sound, ready to leave the ground, looking like a white star.

• 1:22:31Speaker 06

  I've got hair in my eyes, moving backwards, head and heart.

• 1:22:46Speaker 06

  I've got hair in my eyes, moving backwards, head and heart.

• 1:23:45Speaker 06

  I got you guys, I got you guys, do everything upside down.

• 1:23:52Speaker 06

  Okay, let's, let's grip it like this, slowly, okay?

• 1:24:00Speaker 06

  I think you can see it on the front there. That's the earth in the picture.

• 1:24:10Speaker 06

  I'm just a little cautious about it.