Building a Legacy on Athleticism, Faith & Humility (Part 2)

Today were back with Ultraman competitor and EPIC5 finisher Christian Isakson for Part 2 of our conversation. Thanks for all the great comments and feedback I received on social media this week in response to Part 1. If you haven’t listened to that one yet dial it up first before tuning in here Part 2 just gets better. We delve into Christian's racing. He walks us through his first-hand experience completing EPIC5 and what it took to put his imprimatur on last year's Ultraman World Championships. Then we turn to service. Christian's commitment to giving back through his involvement with Chris Lieto's non-profit More Than Sport and and his recent work in Kenya with Ameena Project. And how faith, family and humility are keystones to remain grounded, focused and on point. The message is this — if you want your life to have true meaning, satisfaction, fulfillment and a legacy of value, giving back in a meaningful way is essential. If you are feeling adrift, Christian's message will help right your ship. If he has inspired you to seek out a more fulfilling path for yourself but you're just not sure how to embark on your own version of his story, then — as mentioned in the introduction to this episode — you might be encouraged by my new online course on MindBodyGreen.com entitled The Art of Living With Purpose- 2+ hours of streaming video content with an array of downloadable tools I learned, honed and devised to course correct my life — tools I continue to rely on to this day to keep my life focused and on track. Give it a look if it feels right to you. I hope you enjoy Part 2 as much as Part 1. As always, let me know what you think in the comments section below and on social media. Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Rich Roll?

  Welcome to the Rich Roll Podcast, episode 84, part two of my conversation with Ultraman triathlete Christian Isaacson.

• 1:22Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the show, to the RRP, to the Rich Roll Podcast. Not surprisingly, my name is Rich Roll, and I'm the host, where each week I bring to you the best, most forward-thinking paradigm-busting minds in health, fitness, athleticism, spirituality, creativity, diet art, nutrition, and even entrepreneurship. Why do I do this? I do this so that you are empowered with the tools, the knowledge, the inspiration, and the motivation to take your life to the next level, to blow through the barriers we impose on ourselves, because we tend to be the ones putting those barriers on ourselves more than other people.

• 2:04Rich Roll?

  We're our own worst enemy at times, and I want you guys to achieve your maximum potential, not just physically, but mentally, emotionally, and spiritually as well. The goal is to motivate, inspire you to take your life to the next level, to help you discover, unlock, and unleash your best, most authentic self. It's about life transformation. It's about sustainable, positive change. That's the name of the game. And you know, I was able to change my life in dramatic ways, like who I am, what I do, what I seek, and what I now find important in my life, really bears little resemblance to what it looked like not so many years ago. And I just want everybody to experience this, to have this opportunity. And the truth is, that it's always within our grasp. Even

• 2:48Rich Roll?

  if that elevator is going down, you don't have to take it all the way down. You can get off at any floor. And my hope is that by bringing these conversations to you, you're empowered, that you have the tools, you have the inspiration and the motivation to make that change now and not wait until you hit bottom. Okay? How's that sound? All right. Well, that brings me to today. I'm in Beirut. I'm in Beirut, Lebanon. Like, can you believe that? I can't. How did that happen? What am I doing here? I have a speaking engagement here. I just spent an incredible week in Canada. Julie and I traveled all over Ontario. We were in Burlington, Toronto, and London for a couple of events. And I'm really inspired by that experience. I found the people there to be quite amazing. And there's so much

• 3:33Rich Roll?

  interest and enthusiasm about wellness there. It was really encouraging to me. And I just left, super energized, to return to the Middle East. I'm back in the Middle East for the third time this year, which just blows my mind. I'm amazed to have this opportunity. It's really incredible, because if you had told me a couple of years ago, that I would be paid to travel the world, to go to these crazy exotic locations that I probably would never visit in my entire life, to talk about the things that I care about the most, the things that I'm most passionate about, I would have said you were insane. So, the point is, don't limit yourself. Now, on the subject of limits, I think I just exceeded

• 4:12Rich Roll?

  the limits of my podcast soundboard. I just got back from an incredible run along the waterfront here in Beirut. It's a beautiful day, and it was really a stellar experience. But got back, set up all my podcast equipment, got out my fancy microphone, connected all the cords, and

• 4:32Rich Roll?

  Plugged in my soundboard, you know, when you travel internationally, you need one of those power converters, which I have, I plugged my soundboard into it, into the wall, and the thing just like exploded. There's like smoke coming out of it and a bad smell. And yeah, so it went dark on me and I had a little bit of a panic attack. I'm like, oh my God, I gotta get part two of Christian's interview up. How am I gonna do this from this remote location? I just, I just destroyed my equipment. I probably should have brought with me a surge protector. That would have been smart, but I wasn't so smart. I didn't do that. So what am I doing? How am I doing this? Well, basically, I'm just speaking into my little digital audio recorder without the help of a fancy microphone. So if the

• 5:17Rich Roll?

  audio sounds a little bit not as good as it usually does, that's, that's why. But it was a difference between not getting a podcast up today and getting it up anyway I can. And the message is what's important. So this is what I'm doing. So hopefully you can overlook the little tweaks in the audio. The interview is great, though. Also, speaking of limits, how to exceed our limits, how to surpass our limits. Check out my new course on Mind Body Green. It's called The Art of Living with Purpose. How to Set and Achieve Goals, Transform Your Life, and Become Your Best, Most Authentic Self. From, you know, the path that I've walked the last few years and all these incredible experiences that I've had doing the podcast and all these amazing people that I've met, I happen to have learned

• 6:02Rich Roll?

  a couple of things. Picked up some stuff. I've implemented a few ideas, tools, and strategies on the subject of how to embrace a new and more fulfilling, or should I say, personally meaningful approach to life. How to uncover and embrace your latent passion. And the fundamentals, the rudimentary aspects of how to properly set and achieve a goal.

• 6:26Rich Roll?

  How to Transform Your Life, to again tell the theme of the podcast. So that you can become your best, most authentic self. And what I did is I took all this stuff that I've learned and I distilled it down and I put it in this online course, which is a little over two hours of streaming video content, divided up into shorter videos, things we call modules. There are six modules and 14 sessions. There's an array of downloadable tools and resources that address everything from the fundamentals of transformation. Like I said, how to properly set a goal, how to erect a roadmap, how to create structures, how to create momentum, engage community, and rely on accountability to make these changes.

• 7:08Rich Roll?

  And also, why people traditionally fail or fall short in their goals. We've all done it. We all know people that have done it. You set a goal, you begin the process of working towards that, and somewhere along the line, you get discouraged, or you abandon it, or you give up hope. Why does that happen? And what do we need to do to avoid that in the future? So essentially, the foundational principles and practices behind every successful sustained life transformation, I took a look at all of this and I put it all in this course. And I'm really pumped about it. I worked really hard on it. And I really do think it's a valuable toolbox that contains the assets that are required for you to make the changes in your life necessary to become the person you always

• 7:52Rich Roll?

  wanted to and deserve to be. So if you are feeling stuck and you're not sure how to take that first step, or how to best approach the process of beginning to change what your life looks like, this would be a great place to start. So anyway, you can check that out. It's at Mind Body Green. It's on the homepage. It's easy to find. Enough of that. All right, so today, we're back with Christian Isaacson for part two of our conversation. And already, I've gotten tons of great feedback from part one. So if you haven't listened to that one yet, I would suggest you dial that up first before listening to this one. And I can say that part two just gets better. In part one, we got through a lot of Christian's background and his life stuff.

• 8:35Rich Roll?

  And now we turn attention more into his racing and his training. We talk about Epic Five. We talk about his amazing performance at Ultraman this past year. And we get into his service work, his activities with nonprofits like Chris Lieto's More Than Sport, and also, and more recently, the Ameena Project, which is an NGO that took Christian to Kenya, where he provided much-needed medical assistance to underprivileged people in desperate need. And how these sort of activities play into his success, happiness, and fulfillment equation. So I said it before, I'll say it again, it's an honor to know this guy. Christian is a solid dude.

• 9:19Rich Roll?

  It's been a pleasure to be able to sit down with him and pick his brain for such a long period of time. And I'm pleased to be his friend, and to have him in his life makes me a better man. Proud to share this conversation with you today, so let's drop in and check it out.

• 9:44Rich Roll?

  I think what you're, I think in part what you're trying to convey is this idea of being completely present in the, the activity that you find. Like, it's a way of like, really kind of eradicating the thinking brain because of all of these sorts of, the crazy pain and all these other things that you're doing, that you really have to be just completely with yourself in the present moment, just to get through to the next breath. And there's something kind of, like we were talking about before, like, very pure about that. There's like an asceticism to that, you know what I mean? Yeah.

• 10:28Rich Roll?

  There's a seeking aspect to that, and there's a kind of an unspoken, how would you put it?

• 10:37Rich Roll?

  Um, not peace, but.

• 10:40Speaker 02

  There is dude, for me, there is a cert like for me, it when people say spiritual or it's, it's, it's an enlightening aspect of it. It's like chariot's a fire for me. Like I feel, I feel God's joy when I'm at that point. I really do. I really feel like when I'm out there racing so many more times I lean on the fact that I'm like, man, this is what I've been designed to do. Like this is, this is a part of me that nobody else has been wired to quite like I have.

• 11:10Rich Roll?

  So there's this idea that when you're doing this, that you're on the path that you're meant to be.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Like is it Liddell in chariot's a fire? That's his name. Um, when he's like, this is, I feel your joy. Um, where kind of like, I'd rather be, I'd rather be, I'd rather not be in church thinking about running than being running and focusing on. I mean, that's, there's a, there's a, there's a kind of a stretch of a, of a connection there, but there, there were so many times when I raced the epic five, even more slow than Ultraman, where I was like, man, thank you, God for this. This is, this is freaking so cool, dude. Like I, I literally had conversations out there like, this is awesome that I get a chance to do this. And I remember saying that to Ian Adamson. I was like, dude, we get to do this today. We get to do this. Um, my buddies over there, when they came

• 11:57Speaker 02

  over, they were like, dude, you are in a very colorful sort of language that I won't repeat because it's a family show, but they're like, dude.

• 12:03Rich Roll?

  You're insane.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  I, I remember I was riding on the bike and I was just, I was just peeing, just pissing and Lennox drove up next to me and he was like, I'm peeing right now, dude. And, um.

• 12:13Rich Roll?

  Was there a mo, was there ever a moment where you were like ready to pull the pin and be like, I'm done. I'm, I'm cooked. I can't keep going.

• 12:21Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. I think on, uh.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  Molochai, with the hills and the wind, I was getting blown around like a paper doll. I'm like, I can't do this. Like, it was literally like, you get to that point, you're like, I'm gonna fail. This, not like a failure at Ultraman, which was the closest I've ever come to quitting, but this was just more like, you step back and like, common sense takes over and they're like, "Okay, let me get this straight. You paid all this money to come over here, you're away from your family, you're, you, you, you're, you..." It's like you're pissing gasoline when you pee because your urethra's all jacked up. Like, the core guttural parts of the body are speaking, like, the saddle sores and the need for sleep and the aggravation and the winnowing away

• 13:13Speaker 02

  of who you think you are to who you really are. And that day three for me, it might have been day four had my buddies not been there. But day three for me was dark.

• 13:26Rich Roll?

  Right. And were you running a marathon in the late into the night that night?

• 13:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:31Rich Roll?

  Along that long stretch of straight highway?

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's when I was with Ian. And listening to Ian talk to me about some of the struggles he did with the Eco Challenge, because he's on TV, he's won all the Eco Challenges. He had some really interesting insight to stripping away who you think you are to who you become in a race. And then running with who you've become, not who you think you are.

• 13:56Rich Roll?

  That's interesting. So elaborate on that a little bit.

• 13:59Speaker 02

  Well, I actually told, we were talking about that, and I actually, that kind of came to me. I'm like, I've realized that to compete in this, because earlier in the day on the bike, I was dysfunctional. I come to the conclusion on the end of the bike, like, "I can't race who I think I am. I have to race who I've become." Kind of like, use the weapon that you have. And then Ian's like, a lot of people... Spend years trying to figure that out. And I said, well, it doesn't mean I figured it out, but I know that I've thought about that moment many times after that and have struggled to understand why I can't keep implementing it. Like, why is it that we

• 14:42Speaker 02

  remember so many things that we think we should do the next time we race, only to forget them the second you get pushed up against the wall. But I did that a lot in Ultraman 2, and that's the lesson I learned in Epic 5 on days 4 and 5. I just got to race who I've become, not who I started out to be. Because dude, you're changed every day. Every day I woke up that morning thinking I had just broken up from a relationship from the day before. And then you got to kind of go through the baggage and go through the weeding out. And I don't know if that makes sense, but that's kind of the best way I can summarize that.

• 15:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I like that. I mean, did you ever have those moments, particularly, you know, when you're doing the latter miles of the marathons where, you know, wheels are falling off in the middle of the night, and you're just like, I gotta make it to the next lamppost, you know, where you have to break it down in a literally like, you know, 100 yard.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  Day 5 was that, was for me for that. The day 5, that was, day 4 it started, but I ran with Morgan Christian for a little bit. And I was yelling, I'm like, dude, we were coming down the stretch, I'm like, just tell me, man, when the next, like, he was talking to me. And, and I was just like, just make it to the next light, just make it to the next light. Because you hear that, and you read that in books, in triathlete magazine, they get these little like, just find a lamppost and run to it. And you're like, that's retarded. When you're out there, that's what I was doing.

• 16:07Rich Roll?

  And what was that like when you finally finished that fifth marathon? I mean, what was the, you know, what was the sort of scenario around the finish line that night? Well, down at the pier.

• 16:20Speaker 02

  It was cool that day for me because I was, I came in first, not because.

• 16:25Rich Roll?

  See, that's weird even here because when Jason and I, there was nothing, it was, it was just, we're just doing it. We're not like racing. You had five guys and you had, you know, there's a little bit of.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  It wasn't.

• 16:36Rich Roll?

  Ego getting mixed up with like, who's going to do this the fastest and all that kind of stuff. That was not part of the equation.

• 16:41Speaker 02

  There was some overriding things about that and, and I really thought that, um, not because I wanted to race, but you're fighting against yourself. But the, the last day I thought I was coming in first, not because I would beat everybody else. But I remember I was going through all of my, um, experiences with each athlete on the course that day. And I'm like, ah, man, they're not here. Like, I really wanted, I just wanted us all to be there and kiss the ground together.

• 17:08Rich Roll?

  So when you got to, when you got there, was there anybody there? Was it just you?

• 17:12Speaker 02

  There was a, there was a handful of people and I got a lei put around my neck. Um, but, but I thought, I, I remember thinking that. I'm like, I wanted so bad. It, it wasn't, it wasn't a feeling of beating everybody else. It was a feeling of loss because, because we weren't all together.

• 17:28Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  Um, and I, I remember so bad feeling guilty because I wanted to wait around, but I was, I was, I was, uh, I was filleted, man. Um, I just was, I, I don't know, man. It was just so, such a flood of emotion that was, um, you know, I saw Joseph Arjum, uh, not too many miles back. And we stopped and hugged and high fived and gave each other, you know, attaboy and good job. And Lester, I was thinking about Lester on the day before I stopped on the bike when he was going and I gave him a hug. And I told Jason, I'm like, dude, I'm not racing today, but I want to run the Queen K or I want to run down a Lee he drive in the light. Cause it was getting dark and, um, Mike Flaherty had already fallen out at that time because he ripped up his leg. Um, so.

• 18:15Rich Roll?

  So there you were in the end. I mean, what was the, uh, what was the recovery like for you?

• 18:20Speaker 02

  I swam the next morning with Ian.

• 18:22Rich Roll?

  The weird thing with me with that was that I recovered unbelievably fast. Like, all I needed like, was like two nights of good sleep and I was, I felt totally fine.

• 18:32Speaker 02

  Three weeks after though, I was hammered.

• 18:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, the weird thing is, and I don't know if this happened to you, but, uh, excuse me, um. My coach told me this would happen. He's like, you're actually gonna, he goes, you're not gonna believe me, but you're gonna actually gain weight, you know, throughout this week because your body is in such trauma and crisis, it thinks you're trying to kill it.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  And you're holding all the water?

• 18:57Rich Roll?

  Holding on to everything because you're running such a massive calorie deficit.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:01Rich Roll?

  You're, you, there's no way you could eat enough to keep up with the amount of calories you're burning.

• 19:06Speaker 02

  And the carbs.

• 19:06Rich Roll?

  So, so it's like, well, how could I be gaining weight?

• 19:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 19:09Rich Roll?

  Body is literally not letting any of it go. And I remember when I was done, like, I was bloated.

• 19:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:15Rich Roll?

  Like, my body looked all weird.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 19:16Rich Roll?

  And then like 10 days later, it just was, whoo, it's gone.

• 19:20Speaker 02

  That's exactly what happened to me.

• 19:21Rich Roll?

  I dropped like 15 pounds in a day or something like that.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Yep, that's exactly what happened. Cause carbs hold on to water four times more and that's exactly what happened to me, Rich.

• 19:28Rich Roll?

  The body had to finally realize, oh, okay, you're not gonna, we're out of the woods here. You're not gonna kill me.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  Yep, that's exactly, that is exactly what happened. I went swimming with Ian Adamson the next day and I got about a kilometer out. I'm like, dude, I gotta go back. I could feel myself kinda getting tired. So, and then I did a quick jog and just, and then I just chilled, dude. Just really relaxed and let my body recover. So, and then that's when.

• 19:54Rich Roll?

  No injuries.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  That's when Ian, no, no, I didn't, I had, you know, I, I attribute some of that to Living Fuel. I, I've been with, that's when Living Fuel jumped on board with me, the, the supplement. And it's still to this day, um, one of the things that I tout is, is a, is a secret weapon for me. So, but I had no injuries. I felt GI was good. I felt like I really went through it and, and came out the other side better.

• 20:21Rich Roll?

  It's amazing, man. And you did it in five days. You did it. It was an incredible experience. And I remember talking to you shortly thereafter. And it wasn't long before you're like back on this idea of like trying to qualify for Kona.

• 20:34Speaker 02

  And that's when you said.

• 20:35Rich Roll?

  I was like, what are you doing, man?

• 20:37Speaker 02

  I know.

• 20:37Rich Roll?

  You should be going to Ultraman. Like, look what you just did at Epic Five. You just lit it up. Like, you gotta refocus, man. Like, clearly, the ultra endurance is suiting you well.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you know what, dude? To be honest with you, Rich, to be totally transparent, I just got, I got sucked back in. Because Ian Adamson's like, hey, why don't you come to Canada and run with? I mean, he's like, Newton's doing this, and I was like, he's like, this is what guys do. They do really well, and then they go to these races, they do building. I was like, alright, and I go to Canada and I get in an accident. I get totally jacked up. I ripped up my disc wheel, and that was disheartening. And then I'm like, ah, that was.

• 21:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah, Ironman Canada?

• 21:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:13Rich Roll?

  I don't remember that happening.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I got hit on the side of the road fixing a pop chain, a dude slammed. I had to buy some dude's tire that I'd borrowed. And then I'm like, I told, and then my wife and I, Ryan was like, you gotta take a break. I'm like, no, I, that was a bum deal. I gotta do this. And I ended up doing.

• 21:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah, then, you know, then it's like, what is this dragon that you're chasing? You know what I mean?

• 21:34Speaker 02

  Dude, I chased it. I really did. And things started to turn for me. I got that 950 in Texas. I took a top 10. And I was like, okay, now this is it. And then the, I got a really bad vibe with the, with the whole cheating thing. It seemed like there was a lot of weird stuff going on. And then I talked to you again, and you're like.

• 21:52Rich Roll?

  With drafting in Texas?

• 21:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, there was, in Texas, I was like, I'm going to Kona, this is it. I took top 10, and I would get a roll down slot. It was the first time I'd coached myself. I did 320 something. I had a great marathon or 330 something marathon. I ate solid food right after. I felt great. And then I remember talking to my coach, he's like, a lot of Europeans won't take that spot because this is their trip. And I really had a bad taste in my mouth after that race because I thought there was some real hanky panky stuff going on in the bike course. And I talked to you that morning before I raced. And you tweeted me, and you're like, get it, Isaacson, get it, this is your, this is your time. And then after the race, I talked to you, and you said it again. You're like, dude, it's written in the stars, Christian. I think you need to get, I need to get, you need to do.

• 22:39Speaker 02

  And I still didn't learn, Rich. I still did two more.

• 22:43Rich Roll?

  How many Ironman did you do?

• 22:44Speaker 02

  In that year, I did Louisville, or Texas, Louisville, and Cozumel.

• 22:50Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  And.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  I was close all the ti- I mean.

• 22:55Rich Roll?

  Right, you're like right on the edge there.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  And then you were just like, and then after I talked to you, I got off the phone, I said, all right, I'm doing Ultraman. And Ronald's like, all right, good. And I called you up and.

• 23:08Rich Roll?

  She's not saying like enough, enough is enough with this insanity.

• 23:12Speaker 02

  Ah, no, she's, she sometimes says that still, but it's all in love and jest. But yeah, that's when I, I said, all right, I'm gonna take a break, recalibrate, figure this out, and then do, do Canada.

• 23:30Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. So the idea is, uh, you wanna do Ultraman, but you can't just go to Ultraman Hawaii, right? Like, you have to go to, do another, you have to complete another Ultraman race before you can get into that race. So you decide Ultraman Canada is what it's gonna be.

• 23:46Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 23:46Rich Roll?

  And for people that are listening, there are other Ultraman races that are all affiliated with each other. I think there's Florida, they're starting in Australia, one I believe.

• 23:54Speaker 02

  Next year.

• 23:55Rich Roll?

  Is there a Brazil one?

• 23:56Speaker 02

  Nope, right now, well, there is an Ultraman in Brazil, but it's not affiliated, I don't think, yeah.

• 24:00Rich Roll?

  Right. So, but the Canada one, which is in Penticton, is really the feeder one for the Hawaii.

• 24:06Speaker 02

  Dude, it's magic. It's, it is a magical event.

• 24:10Rich Roll?

  And so this is gonna be your thing now, right? So you, so, so do you get some different kind of training advice? Are you still like self-coaching yourself?

• 24:19Speaker 02

  This is when Chris Boudreau picked me up after I did Ironman Louisville, after I got that 950. Boudreau and I met, and he's like, dude, I wanna help you. And he's like, you think about this. So he coached me through those two Ironmans, which was really good. Chris is a solid, solid guy. But after I did, um, Cozumel, um, we sat down and talked and I'm like, the part of me was like, I still think I could do it, you know what I mean? You still get, cause you learn so much and, um, but yeah, Chris picked me up, and he's like, I wanna coach you through, through Canada, and then through the World Championships, if, if that's the way you're gonna go.

• 24:58Rich Roll?

  Ultraman.

• 24:59Speaker 02

  Yep. Um, so he coached me.

• 25:02Rich Roll?

  Right. And so how long before he started coaching you and Ultraman Canada?

• 25:08Speaker 02

  It was, it was similar, like the same time.

• 25:11Rich Roll?

  No, but I mean, how, how long had you trained with him prior to?

• 25:14Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, I see. Well, it was, I'd been with him for five months.

• 25:19Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  And then the year leading in, um, like, so I was with him about a year before Canada.

• 25:25Rich Roll?

  I got you. All right. So how did your training, uh, differ when you set your sights on, on Ultraman Canada versus preparing for Ironman?

• 25:34Speaker 02

  Well, I talked to you quite a bit. I talked with Hoth a little bit. We, we, we, you know, dialogued a little bit. I talked with Gordo. I talked with a couple of people, um, just feeling things out. But Chris, basically, essentially, um, his idea and theories were consistent, long weeks, intelligently done. So I was, I was consistently doing 20, 22, 23 hour weeks consistently, um, with, uh, and I was training with him too, man. There's a couple of times I went riding with him and he just blasted me. Um, but he, I'd said, dude, the reins are yours. Um, so he trained me,

• 26:19Speaker 02

  um, essentially like a pro. Um, and it paid off.

• 26:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So you show up at, at Ultraman Canada and what was your expectation level?

• 26:30Speaker 02

  I wanted to win.

• 26:31Rich Roll?

  You wanted to win. You were, you were, you were going for the win first. You're like, I did Epic Five. I'm, I'm ready to go.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  Well, Chris told me, look, he goes, about two months before he said, you are not researching anybody. Don't log on. Don't look at the start list. Don't look at any, he goes, I'll do that for you. Don't worry about it. Cause Chris knows I can get in my head. And Chris is very, very, he knows I, I get revved up and, but he's very honest. Sort of like the, you know, there's a proverbs in the Bible that says, a knife from a friend is much better than a kiss from an enemy. That's how Chris is with me.

• 27:03Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  Um, and he said, Don't even research it. He goes, here's the plan. This is what we're gonna do. Sub three hour swim and then I talked to you a couple of times and I'd been dialoguing with Chris and I've been talking to Rich. It's such a dynamic race. It's almost hard to go in with the hard plan, but we had a skeleton established. But I thought I could win, man. I really did. I honestly think I could compete and win.

• 27:30Rich Roll?

  Right. And so I want to get to Ultraman Hawaii. So I don't want to spend too much time on this, but like, how did that? How did that play out?

• 27:39Speaker 02

  I got out third in the water and Rhonda said the swim record was broken. And I was like, what?

• 27:46Rich Roll?

  So now you start freaking out. Oh, there's some guy who's really fast and.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  Yep. And from that point on, I, I just raced for three days. I literally just chased and raced.

• 27:55Rich Roll?

  So you just threw your race plan out the window or just?

• 27:58Speaker 02

  Dude, it wasn't, it wasn't like totally thrown out the window, but the solid food idea, like I learned, I learned a lot of things, dude. The learning curve and the, but I, I chased and chased and chased and chased and chased. And I battled with Anaki De La Para, who I've become pretty good friends with from Mexico, who won Ultraman. The UK he won two years prior and then Craig Percival I've become friends with and Dave Matheson, the top and Bergen, John, the guy that won Ultraman Canada two years before. All four, five of us were just battling it out for three days.

• 28:29Rich Roll?

  Right. So for the listener, there's a lot of triathletes and Ironman people that listen to this.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:34Rich Roll?

  Podcast, but not very many people that have done Ultraman. So what was the biggest difference? Like in terms of what you expected it to be versus what it actually was? Like for somebody who is kind of in the Ironman mindset and has this idea about what Ultraman is. What was, what was, what was the biggest thing where you're like, whoa, that was not what I thought it was gonna be?

• 28:59Speaker 02

  The bike was way faster. Like I pushed harder and higher watts than any Ironman race I'd ever raced. Consistently for the first and second day. So, and I was unbelievably fit and I didn't realize it until it was too late. I think that was part of the problem for me. So as far as that learning or telling somebody else that is that you don't, if depending on how you're going at it, it could be a really, it turned out to be a race versus an event. I guess that would be the best way because I, I mean, we were just hammering each other on the bike and then the run was,

• 29:44Speaker 02

  and the run might have been, the back half of the run for Ulsterman Canada was so hard.

• 29:50Rich Roll?

  And a big part of that run is on trails.

• 29:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, the back half and Bergen, the guy that I was battling it out for, for third or second for, because there was a, Matheson was pretty far gone and the run was, man, so many dynamics come into play. Especially after the race when you can talk to everybody, like Matheson had asked me, he's like, dude, I couldn't believe you weren't with me. Because I talked to you, I talked to you the day before, the day of the run and you're like, dude, everybody's gonna go balls to the wall, out of the gate, chill. And I remember Rhonda driving up to me going, you gotta pick it up. I'm like, Rich, no, no, I'm good. And Bujoh and I had a plan, so I was sticking to it, but the, the back half of the run and the bike were the biggest surprises for me.

• 30:34Speaker 02

  Like it's just, it just was just so unbelievably faster paced than I thought it was going to be.

• 30:41Rich Roll?

  And, and what about like the fueling and the nutrition?

• 30:44Speaker 02

  Oh, the fueling sucked because I, I had planned on, like I got into the, got into the feed zone a little bit, David Lim. I was using, or Alan Lim, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. The other one's Bijou.

• 30:56Rich Roll?

  Bijou, the chef.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  I'm sorry.

• 31:00Speaker 02

  I was using some of that stuff during training, the rice, really, really worked well. But like Chris Lay had that interview after Ironman and he said, there's still a part of me, for all the years racing that I've done, I have not yet quite totally understood the way that your body reacts when you're racing, even though you're going in the same intensity. So the solid foods screwed me up.

• 31:24Rich Roll?

  Interesting.

• 31:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, a little bit.

• 31:27Rich Roll?

  And so you're armed with, so you finished that race, what place did you get there?

• 31:32Speaker 02

  I took, I missed third by six seconds.

• 31:35Rich Roll?

  Alright, so you're fourth place, but you get your slot for Hawaii.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 31:39Rich Roll?

  And the, the Canada race is in July?

• 31:43Speaker 02

  August.

• 31:44Rich Roll?

  Oh, August, alright. And Ultraman Hawaii, obviously Thanksgiving weekend, so.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 31:49Rich Roll?

  You don't have that much time in between. I mean, do you start to, you just ramp it up again?

• 31:54Speaker 02

  No.

• 31:55Rich Roll?

  Or you just try to ride this fitness through and like refine?

• 31:58Speaker 02

  I took four weeks off.

• 32:00Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  Chris is like, okay, we're gonna do this, let's take, it was three weeks, three weeks off, and then an easy week, and then build from there. He goes, I think you can do this. So I was like, alright. And then rolled right into Hawaii.

• 32:14Rich Roll?

  Right. And so what were some of your big, like key workouts that you needed to make sure that you got done going into Hawaii?

• 32:20Speaker 02

  Uh, I did, I did a couple hundred plus mile rides at race pace, obviously. A lot of runs split in half, where I'd run 20 in the day in the morning and 12 at night. Chris was very smart, making sure that I didn't hammer myself, but he wanted me to get the miles in. And then I did interval work with Chris, speed work, because Chris was always, I could go out and hammer an Ultraman. Chris was like, I don't doubt the fact that you can, he's like, dude, you're, he would always say the epic five, he's like, you're, you're built for this. He's like, you can do this, but some of the key workouts that we had to get in, some long swims, and then the bike pacing in the watts, and then just getting the miles on my legs.

• 33:03Rich Roll?

  And so how much of, of your bike work was sort of interval based as opposed to zone two, kind of aerobic? Style work.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  A lot more than I thought it would be.

• 33:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 33:14Speaker 02

  Chris had me.

• 33:15Rich Roll?

  The impression that I got was that you did a lot of intensity work.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  I did, and it paid off, man. It really did. I became the best cyclist I'd ever been.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  Dude, I went through the Ultraman Hawaii split and the day number two, Steve King, I remember, came up to me and he goes, dude, do you realize you went through the, and granted, this is coming off the volcano, so the first 25 miles, but I did it in 4:42. And, but, but my bike intensity, Chris had me, like, I'm not that strong of a biker, and he brought me up, so with intensity.

• 33:49Rich Roll?

  I mean, you demonstrated some mad bike skills in that race, so let's just walk it, walk it through. I mean, you did not get off to a shining start.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  It was.

• 33:57Rich Roll?

  You had a rough time in the swim.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  Day one was the worst day of my racing career.

• 34:01Rich Roll?

  And my understanding was that the, the currents were pretty rough. It was not like a fun day out there in the, in the ocean.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was that, going back to the question you talked about, the Epic Five, Rich, that was the only, that was, I didn't think I was gonna finish. I almost quit. I, I really did. Kai, the guy that was my paddler firefighter from Hawaii, I, I couldn't quit throwing up. I just couldn't quit throwing up in the water.

• 34:25Rich Roll?

  How far into the swim before you started throwing up?

• 34:28Speaker 02

  Forty, forty minutes.

• 34:30Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 34:30Speaker 02

  And I knew something was up because I thought I was, I thought I was in the water for an hour and 20 or 30 minutes. I blogged about this thinking, I'm usually a really good, I have a really good knowledge of how long I've been in the water, and I thought, okay, I've been in for at least an hour, 20 minutes. And, and he's like, no, you've only been in for 40.

• 34:48Speaker 02

  So.

• 34:48Rich Roll?

  That plays, that plays games with your head when that starts.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  And Hillary, like this, like Hillary, I was like, where's your cape? I'm like, what, what's up with this crap? She was freaking gone. I was like, whatever, that's, you know, so let her go. And I was like, it was on.

• 35:04Rich Roll?

  Well, let her go. That, that implies you had a choice.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  I didn't have a choice. Dude, I did. Seriously, I was, I was.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  Hillary, I know you're gonna listen to this and I know you hear me tell you this, but your swimming is impressive.

• 35:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah, she's very, she's impressive for many, many reasons.

• 35:22Speaker 02

  She is. But my swim was forty-five minutes, forty to forty-five minutes slower. I just didn't think I was gonna make it, Rich.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  I was throwing up and I was...

• 35:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so I'm watching from afar. I'm following the whole thing on my computer and I'm waiting for the splits to upload. And I was like, ooh, looks like you didn't, you know, you had a rough time. I didn't know what was happening. But what, so you got, how long did that swim take you?

• 35:48Speaker 02

  Three forty.

• 35:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's unbelievable.

• 35:50Speaker 02

  It was, I wanted to be, I was like, if I could get in, like, if I could come in around three, I'll be happy. And dude, I had Canada to go a straight shot, basically, point-to-point swim. I didn't consider any physiological effects from swimming.

• 36:07Rich Roll?

  Well, it's a lake. I mean, you're swimming in a flat lake versus swimming in an ocean, a turbulent ocean.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  Where you're getting, you're getting hit on the right side.

• 36:13Rich Roll?

  And just to kind of put it into perspective and to kind of emphasize the turnaround that you inevitably, that you, that you had later in the race. When I won the day, when I won day one in 2009, I swam two twenty-one.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  That's ridiculous.

• 36:29Rich Roll?

  And then in 2011, I swam two seventeen.

• 36:32Speaker 02

  That's ridiculous, dude.

• 36:33Rich Roll?

  So you're coming in like an hour and twenty minutes after that. So the deficit that you're looking at making up in order to get back into the mix and, you know, rub elbows with the guys that are, you know, at the top of the, you know, leading the pack. You've got, I mean, that could just crush your spirit. So how do you get on the bike and face that ninety miles on that first day? And not allow your spirits to just completely crush you?

• 36:58Speaker 02

  My spirits were crushed.

• 37:00Rich Roll?

  Right, so, you know, so what's going on?

• 37:02Speaker 02

  I heard, I heard Gurley going, "It's an early race, dude. It's an early race." Because dude, there was some, a little bit of hype before that race. I mean, some of the stuff that...

• 37:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you would get, I mean, Gurley was giving you some hype. There was a little bit of love getting thrown your way, like you could be, you know, you, you know, you could be in the mix here. And so then, so early in the race to come out in such a rears is...

• 37:24Speaker 02

  It sucked. For a split second, I let that get in my head. And then I'm like, who gives a crap about that? I heard Rhonda go, "Babe, breathe, breathe." So my buddy Joe was there and Ian, Ian was scared because I was, I just, I couldn't believe it. I looked at the clock and I was fourteenth and I'm like... I'm like, dude, and then that climb.

• 37:45Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. Yeah. So you get out of the water, especially if you're sick to your stomach. And the first thing you have to do is like this, what is it? Three miles?

• 37:52Speaker 02

  That's more than that.

• 37:53Rich Roll?

  Straight up.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  Dude, it was.

• 37:55Rich Roll?

  With right from the beginning.

• 37:57Speaker 02

  The funny thing is though, two miles in that climb, I was back. Like, asthma, like, things were leveling off. I was sweating like crazy and I was overheating and I was hyperventilating. And I was trying to, but, but I could feel myself go like, all right, swim's done. Let's go.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  And I remember my crew van finally catching up to me after the climb. And I said, I am going. Keep up. And so I just had, I, I, I thought to myself, I have got to, I have got to go. And it was.

• 38:30Rich Roll?

  But how do you, how do you combat all this self doubt and all the, you know, I mean, that had to be welling up in you like, you know, all this work and all this, these high expectations. And, and, and now I'm so far behind. Like, how are you, how are you trying to quell the, you know, what the negative impulses that I'm sure inevitably were firing in your brain?

• 38:49Speaker 02

  Rhonda.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  Because I thought about how much she sacrificed for me. I mean, and, you know, I think about, I think about my relationship with Rhonda. And, you know, Evelyn and Ian were there and I had my closest friends, Joe and Dorothy. And I remember thinking the swim, like, I'm going to let these people down. Like, they came all this way. My, my, our closest friends took time off work and.

• 39:13Rich Roll?

  And to be clear, your crew was your wife and your kids.

• 39:16Speaker 02

  And then Joe and Dorothy.

• 39:17Rich Roll?

  Right. All right. And they always tell you, like, never have your people you care about in your crew. And I, I didn't pay attention to that rule. I had my wife.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  It's the exact opposite for me.

• 39:27Rich Roll?

  Like, and you do too. And ended up being fine, but it's definitely a risk.

• 39:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:31Rich Roll?

  Did Rhonda have any idea what she was really getting involved in?

• 39:35Speaker 02

  Cause, well, she crewed me at Canada.

• 39:36Rich Roll?

  Right. All right. So she had that experience before.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, Canada was a shock.

• 39:39Rich Roll?

  But in Canada, did she?

• 39:40Speaker 02

  Oh, no, it was a shock. But she was, she was solid, man. Gosh, she's so solid. But I started thinking about that. And after I got over that little pity party I had out of the water, I'm like. I'm not, that's it. I'm not, I don't care how bad this hurts. I'm not going back there.

• 39:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, that's some, that's some pretty strong mental fortitude because I think a lot of people would have just folded. I mean, not to say that they would have quit the race, but they would have let their guard down and said, eh, you know, not happening. I'm just, I'll just get through the day.

• 40:12Speaker 02

  I had the, I had what I told you about what happened in, in, at the Epic Five. I'm like, I, I kept thinking, I, I thought to myself like, all right, here's where I'm at. This is now my, like in, in medicine, you have to go with the baseline, which is establishing their vitals right off the gut. And then, and then you go from there. And that's what I said. I was like, okay, I'm, I'm shifting my baseline. This is normal for me now. This is where I'm starting. If I look at it the other way, then you fall back into, and dude, you know what? I'm a Christian. My, that's the number one thing in my life. And, and I tell people all the time, I'm like, dude, if you think I'm lame for believing that, that's fine, but the negativity and that, that kind of stuff, dude, that breeds in you regardless of what avenue you're coming from.

• 40:55Speaker 02

  If, it's like a rabbit hole, dude. Um, it's like that interview I saw of you the other day. Like, don't even go down it. It's not even worth it. So I established that baseline and I moved forward. Nonetheless, that still proved to be the most physically tough part of the day. The bike climb and the winds on the backside. It was freaking nuts, man. And people were dead. I don't think five people finished that day. Five people.

• 41:16Rich Roll?

  Right. So there was crazy winds on the last 20 miles up the volcano, right? I think I remember talking to you the night before and I was like, just make sure you've got some gas in the tank.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  That's exactly what you told me.

• 41:28Rich Roll?

  When you get to the base of the volcano, because that's going to break your back and you're going to completely underestimate how challenging that.

• 41:33Speaker 02

  That's exactly, I had that going through my head too. And I've said some choice words to you that you weren't there, but,

• 41:41Speaker 02

  and my, my buddy Joe was running next to me too. And he was saying some choice words and Ian was like, I could see him in the car going like, did you hear what Joe just, cause Joe was just motivating me.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  But dude, you were right. When I finished that first day, I, that was the hardest day of my life racing.

• 41:59Rich Roll?

  Right. I think that, um, when I, Going into the, my first Ultraman in 2008, I drove the course, but I hadn't spent time in Hawaii like training.

• 42:10Speaker 02

  You drove the whole course?

• 42:11Rich Roll?

  I drove the whole course like two days before the race.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  By yourself? You just went by yourself?

• 42:15Rich Roll?

  By myself, yeah, in a van.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  Dude, how was that?

• 42:18Rich Roll?

  It was, it was pouring rain for most of it, actually.

• 42:22Speaker 02

  Did it scare you though?

• 42:23Rich Roll?

  The, the vast distances of it, really, yeah, it intimidated me, but I think what happened was when you drive that day one course, the day one bike course?

• 42:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:34Rich Roll?

  When you're in a car and you've never been there before, driving up the volcano doesn't seem like any big deal. Like you don't feel the wind and the grade, there's like an optical illusion where it doesn't actually look like you're climbing.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  It's like vinyl and CD.

• 42:48Rich Roll?

  It's just gradual enough that when you're in a car, you don't really notice it.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 42:53Rich Roll?

  So I completely underestimated how hard that first day bike was, but driving the course, I was so intimidated by the distance on day two, that day two, the day two 170 miles on the bike actually ended up being easier than I was expecting it to be.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  Cause psychologically you were?

• 43:11Rich Roll?

  Maybe because it was a psychological trick. I don't, I don't know.

• 43:14Speaker 02

  I didn't know that you, that you drove the course, man. That's interesting.

• 43:31Rich Roll?

  So you had to have just been hammered when you finished day one, right?

• 43:34Speaker 02

  I was dude.

• 43:35Rich Roll?

  So you're, you're scrambling to move up the ranks. So you're doubling down. You're probably going harder on the bike than you expected to.

• 43:41Speaker 02

  Way harder.

• 43:42Rich Roll?

  And you're depleted and dehydrated from the swim. So what, what, uh, you know, what, what happens when you cross that finish line after day one?

• 43:50Speaker 02

  Uh, well, I crumpled up on the side of the road and vomited like a four-year-old baby that was sick.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  It sucked, uh, but I knew, Ron was like, you moved up to seventh or eighth and, um.

• 44:06Rich Roll?

  Are you think, like, are you taking Chris Boudreau's advice and trying to not, you know, be in the heads of your competitors? Or are you just obsessing on where's Alexander? Where's Mira? Where's, you know?

• 44:17Speaker 02

  Actually.

• 44:18Rich Roll?

  I mean, knowing you, I think I know the answer to this, but.

• 44:21Speaker 02

  Boudreau is very tactical. He's very smart and, uh.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  He and I discussed a race plan where, cause I met, I met Alexander, I met Ribirio before the event started and he didn't know me from Adam.

• 44:36Rich Roll?

  And for the listeners, he's like multiple, you know, world champion at this distance. He's been undefeated in the last four years, five years.

• 44:43Speaker 02

  And he's won six times.

• 44:44Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Anyway, and Krieger was there and, um, but he met me before. I, I waited to meet him. He was getting interviewed and I positioned myself just so he could see me and I just waited and waited and waited for 15 minutes. Rondo's in the car waiting for me. He caught up and shook my hand and he put his hand on my shoulder and he's like, "Look man, it's your first time. Just enjoy the race. Don't push. Just, just, just sit back and relax and enjoy it and, and just everything's going to be great. You're going to enjoy yourself. When it gets hard,

• 45:13Speaker 02

  pick up your cadence, slow down." Um, kind of like a grandfather. Um, and I was thinking about that at the end of day one. I'm like, "That guy was right, man. This is, you know, this is, um, this is the real deal." That's what I kept thinking too.

• 45:28Rich Roll?

  I mean, how is it different from Canada?

• 45:31Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 45:32Rich Roll?

  Other than the, other than the washing machine, you know, swim experience.

• 45:37Speaker 02

  It was a nightmare compared to Canada. And I remember Steve Brown saying at the Canada race briefing, "You're going to climb a hill, but if any of you have ever done,

• 45:47Speaker 02

  ultimate Hawaii, that's a hill. That hill coming out, that climb coming out of the swim." I was wrecked after day one. In Canada, I was a little bit jovial, shaking hands, um, sitting in an ice bath. Um, but after day one, I was in the car. I was crying and screaming and Jim Gruyli was looking at me and, um, I remember I was just delirious and I, I read a portion in Job the night before that said, "When, when Job, when God talks back to Job, when he's like, "All right, are you, are you done pissing and moaning? Now stand up and answer me like a man." Um, I kept saying that, like, I just was out of my mind. Like, I was standing up and I just felt like I was like, "Stand up and answer me." I just

• 46:29Speaker 02

  felt like everything was out there and you feel like it's against you. The wind, the rain, the water, the swimming, the heat. You turn a corner and it's hot and.

• 46:37Rich Roll?

  And you also think that it's personal, like you're the only one who's suffering from that.

• 46:42Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 46:43Rich Roll?

  And everyone else is immune from these things.

• 46:45Speaker 02

  Exactly. You don't think anybody else is, you know what I mean? You don't think anybody else is hurting. Um, but.

• 46:51Speaker 02

  Dude, you know, I was scared. I guess I was scared. That would be the best way.

• 46:55Rich Roll?

  I mean, when Alexander made those comments to you, did you take that in good spirit? Or were you like insulted? Like, because he's sort of saying, hey, man, don't sweat it. Like, you know, take a backseat and don't worry about it. There's another year.

• 47:09Speaker 02

  I felt like he was playing head games with me. And Gulli was right there and I kind of looked over at him and smiled and chuckled. And I felt like he was the wise sage.

• 47:20Rich Roll?

  I wouldn't, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who plays head games.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  Not, not head games.

• 47:25Rich Roll?

  He's quite genuine.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, not head games in the sense that like, I'm trying to beat you because he's the best.

• 47:31Rich Roll?

  Right. You were not a threat to him.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  It's not, dude, I don't think anybody was, I don't even think, I think nobody was a threat there. I meant like, almost head games to the point where he was like so nice and so like, it surprised me at how much, I guess maybe head games, I shouldn't have said that, not head games. I just felt like it was a very grandfather way to approach me.

• 48:01Rich Roll?

  Well, I think with all of his success at that race comes a certain responsibility and an ambassadorship.

• 48:09Speaker 02

  That's what I.

• 48:09Rich Roll?

  And I think that like when I, in 2009, when I won day one and he came in like, I don't know, you know, 20, 30 minutes behind me.

• 48:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 48:19Rich Roll?

  You know, I was like, oh my God, I just beat the world champion by, you know, a pretty, you know, significant amount of time. And at the finish line, we were taking pictures and he had his arm around me and he was smiling and he was genuinely

• 48:31Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 48:32Rich Roll?

  happy for me because I think that he has such a command over that race.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 48:36Rich Roll?

  That even though I was, he was recognizing that I was having a moment that was a big deal for me.

• 48:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 48:43Rich Roll?

  He was able to enjoy that with me.

• 48:46Speaker 02

  No, I.

• 48:47Rich Roll?

  Without me being a threat because he knows that the race hasn't even started yet and that he is in full command of

• 48:54Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 48:55Rich Roll?

  His destiny in that race.

• 48:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, I don't think, I guess head games is not the right phrase. I think. He seemed so, he seemed so relaxed and I, I never met him before. He seemed so relaxed and so comfortable and so certain and confident that it appeared to me like he was playing. I didn't know him for many, like, he just seemed like he was, like, everybody else you can kind of feel has got, like, they're nervous. But for him, it was a hug and a hand on the shoulder and a handshake. And that's normally how I am towards people. So it was very different for me to get that. And throughout the course of becoming a close friend of, or a friend of his throughout the

• 49:35Speaker 02

  course of the next three days, I realized just how sincere he was when he told me that. And I, and Gurly noticed, and Jim and I talked about it too. But I, I told him after racing and riding and getting to know him was one of the greatest honors of my life. Cause dude, I was starstruck. I was, I was, it was a starstruck moment for me. Even Ian said, Dad, you turned kind of white. I just didn't know the command that he has. His presence just commands respect.

• 50:10Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  And the default mechanism that we think is he's screwing with me.

• 50:16Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  But he gave me, the, the, the end of his race, and I don't want to jump to it too quick, but he gave me a shirt. We changed, exchanged shirt. And he said one of the coolest things to me anybody's ever said, so.

• 50:28Rich Roll?

  Well, just say it now, man.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  He said, I want to be here next year when you win. And I, I was like, what? And he goes, that day two performance on your bike, he said, that's how you win this race. And I, I'm not saying that because I, I just think that he, like, and there's a picture of him with his hand on my shoulder that Gurly got. And Jim's like, the eye, the look between you guys from the day that you met and the, in the last picture, he's like, it's priceless. And when he said that to me, I don't think he was insinuating like, I'm going to be the next year's champion, but I think he recognized in me the desire to want to win.

• 51:07Rich Roll?

  Right. And that was played out magnificently in your day two bike performance. So we talked, I can't remember whether we talked the evening. Yeah, I think we talked the evening after your day one.

• 51:20Speaker 02

  And you said, call me in the morning.

• 51:21Rich Roll?

  Right. And I was like, call, yeah. And I, and I think my, I can't remember exactly what I said to you, but I think it was like, listen, day two. Is a long, it's a long ride, man. And that, the ride really doesn't even start until you get out of Hilo, right?

• 51:34Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 51:34Rich Roll?

  Like, just, just bide your time, pace yourself, just, you know, stay within your, within your, you know, wherewithal.

• 51:41Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 51:41Rich Roll?

  And, you know, resist the temptation to unleash until at least you get, you get north of Hilo, which is, how many miles into the, into it is that, that's like, I don't know, 50, 60?

• 51:52Speaker 02

  You're on 65, 70 miles.

• 51:54Rich Roll?

  And so, and so what do you do?

• 51:58Speaker 02

  Well, Mark, Mick Twysick and Hillary Biscay took care of me that night. They brought me lava salt and potatoes and my stomach was jacked up. I talked to you, talked to Boudreaux and I, I freaking laid the, I just went balls out. I stayed with-

• 52:17Rich Roll?

  You just blasted from-

• 52:18Speaker 02

  Well dude, listen, you know what though, listen, cause Chris, Chris, Chris talked to me and he goes, he goes, dude, here's the situation. You're in eighth place, you had a crappy swim, let's see how you feel in the morning. And I remember thinking to myself, I know there's a 25 mile descent, we're gonna hit speeds up to 50 miles an hour. I do not want to get dropped. And I didn't. I stayed with, we all started together. I was with Hillary, we chatted a little bit and then-

• 52:48Rich Roll?

  Was it, so for the listener, the first, on day two of the, is, day two of Ultraman is a 170 mile bike.

• 52:54Speaker 02

  171.

• 52:55Rich Roll?

  And the first 20 miles are straight downhill.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 52:58Rich Roll?

  And it's draft legal, which means you can ride as a pack. And when the gun goes off, it's like people are taking off for a time trial. And everyone's trying to get into jockey in position to get into this front pack so they can make it down the hill first. And you make this right-hand turn when you get to the bottom, and then everybody starts to separate and you're no longer allowed to draft. So it's all about like trying to get into position for that turn.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 53:25Rich Roll?

  And the, the pace with, the pace is rip roaring.

• 53:31Speaker 02

  It's ridiculous.

• 53:32Rich Roll?

  I remember in 2011, when I did, it was pouring rain.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:35Rich Roll?

  We were, we were like, it was me, I remember riding right next to Jonas Colting and it was pouring rain. And I was like, this is insane. We're on tri bikes with those stupid little brakes that, you know.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  That suck.

• 53:47Rich Roll?

  I was like, this is crazy.

• 53:48Speaker 02

  Yep. Yeah, I, I thought the same thing and it wasn't raining. It rained later in the day, but, and that's, I remember thinking next to Ribero, watching him, just how much of a, like, being in ringside seats, watching him the three days,

• 54:07Speaker 02

  just masterful. Like, the comfort and ease that he went down that hill. And it's, it was, it was like watching Tiger Woods play golf. I mean, so I told myself, stay with him. Just stay with him.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  Hillary had told me, since I was having so many problems with my stomach, you need to get something down soon. And Chris said the same thing, and Rhonda said the same thing. But she's like, babe, you gotta eat. So I got a bar in, and I felt good. My stomach was settled. That first 25 miles or whatever, things settled down. We make that turn, and some dude behind me eats it. I think it was, uh, I can't remember who it was.

• 54:42Rich Roll?

  Somebody crashed at the bottom, right?

• 54:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And then it was Ribero, myself, Krieger, and Sheeper, and we're all kind of in front. And I noticed that Ribero had, was having some kind of mechanical issue. He reached for some Triflo, and it looked like he was hitting his headset or something. I couldn't quite figure it out, but he did it twice. And every time he did it, he slowed down. And I was like, alright, if he does it again, I'm gone. And I did. And I did not let up for 100 miles.

• 55:12Rich Roll?

  And he is a masterful tactician, and he is extremely patient, because he understands how long the race is, and he knows where to pick his battles. And having seen what you had done the day prior, I think he probably felt comfortable with, like, giving you a little bit of a leash and seeing, you know, and not being threatened by that, even if he was dealing with a mechanical. I mean, what was your?

• 55:39Speaker 02

  Well, I found out it wasn't mechanical. He was reaching for water, um, or fuel. And I was, I, I, I do landmark, I, I developed a thing called Epic Five, called Landmark Racing.

• 55:52Speaker 02

  And, well, I didn't develop it, but I started thinking about it. And then it was just a thought when I was wandering on the roads. And then this time it came back to me, and I'm like, my strategy is, whatever natural landmark I get to, that there's a, there's a deviation that I can turn around and look at. I don't want to see anybody there for the rest of the day. So I would like, I'd go and I'd look way back, three miles back at Sea Hill and I just would, I just pushed it. I just, I just pushed it, man. I pushed it as hard and as fast as I could for

• 56:21Rich Roll?

  You really, you just redlined it right out of the gate.

• 56:23Speaker 02

  But I felt so good. And I had, my coaches, my, my coach is like, dude, go to the rivet if you have to, but lay it out there if you feel like you can do it. Um, he's like, don't be stupid. Don't go, you know, heart rate 170, which I wasn't.

• 56:40Rich Roll?

  What was your heart rate?

• 56:42Speaker 02

  Uh, I was, I was staying consistently around, you know, like 150, 152. It wasn't, it was your, it was your zone three for your bike. And my watts were, I was pushing watts. Um, and I don't think necessarily I push heavy watts, but I have a very aggressive position and I'm very aerodynamic and I have a very fast bike and I just felt like things were clicking. And, um, I heard the splits as I was going by Steve King for the, for, you know, four and a half hours in a row and I was well ahead. Until I got caught and that's when

• 57:15Rich Roll?

  So you, you, you rode off the front. So you're riding, you're, you're leading the, you're leading the field. For how many hours is that going on?

• 57:23Speaker 02

  Uh, oh, it was close to five.

• 57:24Rich Roll?

  And are you looking back like?

• 57:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 57:27Rich Roll?

  And, and, and are they within eyesight behind you? So you don't even know. So when you look at your crew, when you say, hey Rhonda, like how, what's my gap? Do you know how, did they know anything? Do they have any information?

• 57:38Speaker 02

  My buddy Joe just kept going, dude, you're, you're killing them. You're destroying them. So around, around 80 miles in or 90 miles in, it might've even been over, no, it was, it was actually over 112 in because I knew how fast I hit that Ironman checkpoint. It was 120, 130. Somewhere in, in that area, um, I told myself, okay, now really push it because they're getting worried and I want to take out as much as I can of their legs, especially where Beryl and Krieger's legs.

• 58:08Speaker 02

  So I did that and that's when I started the red line, but I just didn't, I just was like.

• 58:13Rich Roll?

  Is that like in the climb into wide man?

• 58:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And I was vomiting like, I was vomiting uncontrollably, but I just did not. I just was like, I'm just throwing caution to the wind. I'm just going. Um, so.

• 58:25Rich Roll?

  And so where do they start to catch up?

• 58:28Speaker 02

  Ribero caught me at mile 150 something and we stopped at a light.

• 58:33Rich Roll?

  Is that right before the climb up the collars?

• 58:35Speaker 02

  Yep. Yep. It was right. It was right before that or, or, or very close because he caught me at a light and he put his arm on, he put his hand on my head and, um.

• 58:49Rich Roll?

  That light at the gas station right before you turn right and then you're gonna?

• 58:53Speaker 02

  No, no, it was, it was like in a rural area by a school. Um, I was, my memory is kind of shady, kind of hazy. Maybe it was by a school by like a market or something, but I remember.

• 59:03Rich Roll?

  Like right before the Kahala's?

• 59:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was on the back. It was like 140 miles, 150 miles. And does that sound right?

• 59:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's about right.

• 59:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. And he put his hand on my shoulder at the stoplight and I saw he had been vomiting all day too. And, um, I felt like he was playing mind games with me then, but more like a Jedi master like, like he put his hand on my shoulder and he nodded and it's the first time ever I felt like a pro.

• 59:28Rich Roll?

  Did he say anything to you?

• 59:29Speaker 02

  He just nodded his head and it literally, it was like, like, like it was like, and it was, he, it was.

• 59:36Rich Roll?

  Well, it's disrespect.

• 59:37Speaker 02

  It, it was, but it was very, there was just something about that man that I'm attracted to. And I stayed with him for a little bit and riding behind him and his legs and his positioning that far into the race, being that solid, that's when I started to doubt myself. Um, I'm like, he is, uh, I don't know. It just was.

• 1:00:03Rich Roll?

  He's able to, I mean, in terms of like a champion, he's everything you want your champion to be. He's very incredibly gracious and he's giving and he's kind and he always has a smile on his face and.

• 1:00:13Speaker 02

  He loves his kids, loves his kids.

• 1:00:14Rich Roll?

  Involves his kids. And yeah, I mean, it's like the guy's an amazing guy, right? But then in the, it is when, it's in, when the rubber meets the road and everyone else is falling apart and he still has perfect form.

• 1:00:26Speaker 02

  You know, I apologize to his, um, I apologize to his crew guy, the guy that he has there every year.

• 1:00:31Rich Roll?

  Uh, Jose.

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, because there was a part of that race where he totally misread what I said. I was like, tell him to get up here. Tell him, cause I wanted him at that time, like, I think the honest and the starstruck of him being there was gone. And it was more like a competitor and an adversary and an asset, depending on where you are in the race. But I called him, I told his guys, like, I'm waiting, you know, pull him up. And when he started to catch me, he's like, oh, he's coming for you. I mean, it was very, and I was like,

• 1:00:58Rich Roll?

  Oh, he thought you were taunting.

• 1:00:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. So after I went up and I gave him a hug and I'm like, I hope I didn't. And he's like, no, no, no, no, I understand. And he gave, the guy gave me a big hug and a kiss on the neck.

• 1:01:08Speaker 02

  Kind of a big burly dude.

• 1:01:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  And, uh, then Roberto did the same thing at the end of day two and it was.

• 1:01:15Rich Roll?

  So you, so day two, you, uh, did Miro catch you as well or you were second behind?

• 1:01:20Speaker 02

  Miro and I battled.

• 1:01:21Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So I knew there was something else going on.

• 1:01:23Speaker 02

  He and I battled for about 20 miles.

• 1:01:25Rich Roll?

  Going up the Colos.

• 1:01:26Speaker 02

  He broke me and I saw the look in his eye. Um, and he broke me.

• 1:01:33Speaker 02

  I, I mean, it was a, I mean, we were killing each other and I read somewhere in an article, he had asked over to his crew, is he done? And they nodded his head and he took off like a lightning bolt.

• 1:01:47Rich Roll?

  Right. So he's just waiting for the moment where you were going to crack?

• 1:01:50Speaker 02

  I thought I cracked him. I thought I cracked him because I dropped him the second or third time and he was not coming back. And I remember I switched my aero helmet to my regular helmet because I'm like, I gotta keep the gas on, but I was overheating. So I grabbed my regular helmet from Rhonda and then I felt good for another five or 10 Ks. And then he started to catch me again and then one of the climbs, he, phew. He just took off.

• 1:02:19Rich Roll?

  Right. So, all right. So you finished that day third.

• 1:02:21Speaker 02

  He wasn't as personable as Ribero either, as Alexander.

• 1:02:24Rich Roll?

  Well, there's a language barrier too.

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:26Rich Roll?

  I love Miro. I was so glad that he won the race and finally had his day.

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  I, dude, I was too. And he was just as, like, I don't want to say he's personable in a bad way, like, I'm meeting a new class teacher, but I just meant like, he seemed, he seemed more focused than anybody else there. Whereas Ribero-

• 1:02:45Rich Roll?

  Slovenian, you're talking about the difference between a Slovenian and a Brazilian.

• 1:02:48Speaker 02

  And a Brazilian.

• 1:02:49Rich Roll?

  So it's like, it's Ipanema Beach and it's like the guy who's, you know, I mean, like, come on.

• 1:02:54Speaker 02

  I know, dude. And, and, and, and Alexander had just kind of like this, just like, he was just kind of like in touch with everything. So,

• 1:03:03Speaker 02

  and then I was, I was just in awe that I was racing with these guys.

• 1:03:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And for the listener, I mean,

• 1:03:12Rich Roll?

  you know, these, these guys, Miro and Alexander are the, the consummate champions. And, and ultimately in this past year, Miro finally, Miro has always been the second run, you know, the, the sort of also ran to Alexander, who was always the champion. But they're the best of friends and they train together and they love each other. And Miro finally had his day.

• 1:03:34Speaker 02

  And it was awesome.

• 1:03:36Rich Roll?

  Got to win the race for the first time, which was a beautiful thing. But I remember following the race and I'm like, oh my God, like Christian is just redlining from the get go. Like, I hope this doesn't blow up and become a disaster. And, you know, you held on with your, you know, the hair of your chinny chin chin.

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:03:53Rich Roll?

  Like stayed in the mix and, and, you know, you didn't, you didn't win the stage, but you redeemed yourself and then some and earned the respect of, you know.

• 1:04:02Speaker 02

  And Krieger gave me the biggest hug at the race.

• 1:04:03Rich Roll?

  And, and suddenly, you know, it's a completely different picture.

• 1:04:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:04:08Rich Roll?

  Was at the end of day one for you.

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. And Miro gave me a huge hug at the end of, like,

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  I, I just felt like I was a comrade.

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  I felt respected and I felt not like I wanted, I guess part of me did want respect because not respect in the sense that I feel like they owed it to me, but just I was like, I, cause they don't owe me crap. They're, they're, they've been doing this for 20 years and I'm this new guy coming in. And I remember when Roberto was like, you were such a good rookie. You were rookie. And I'm like, it's weird to think you're a rookie when you're 40, but it's the truth, man. It just goes to show you how dedicated they are that they've been in the game this long.

• 1:04:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah, they've been doing it for a long time. And meanwhile, I'm at home, like, looking at the splits on the computer and just thinking, there's no way this guy's gonna be able to run tomorrow. Like, you just blew it out. Like, you were so determined, possibly desperate to redeem yourself, that you threw everything to the wind and just overextended yourself and then some to kind of get back in the mix. And I'm like, I hope he can stand up when he wakes up in the morning.

• 1:05:11Speaker 02

  And it wasn't a need for, it wasn't a stand, a need for redemption for anybody else, but to try to get me to get to the position so I could be, I wanted to, I wanted to win, man.

• 1:05:23Rich Roll?

  Right, I know.

• 1:05:25Speaker 02

  And I know how well I recover. So I wasn't worried about the recovery for the run at all. And Rhonda worked on my legs and I, I did great recovery. I had, I probably ate a little too much that night because I was just taxed. And I felt good the next morning, man.

• 1:05:46Rich Roll?

  So what was the run strategy?

• 1:05:48Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 1:05:50Rich Roll?

  And I think I talked to you.

• 1:05:51Speaker 02

  You did.

• 1:05:52Rich Roll?

  That night and I was like.

• 1:05:52Speaker 02

  Dude, you were encouraging.

• 1:05:53Rich Roll?

  Please do not try to run with Alexander and Miro from the gun, because those guys are gonna take off like it's a 5K.

• 1:05:59Speaker 02

  And you told me, you're like, Christian, I remember exactly what you said. You're like, Christian, dude, this could shake out for you. And, and he's like, I don't know if you're gonna catch Miro, but he goes, if you took enough, you told me, if you took enough out of their legs, you might, I was like, you don't know what's gonna happen. You kept on telling me, it's a long race, it's a long.

• 1:06:15Rich Roll?

  You gotta have to be smart, you know?

• 1:06:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, and.

• 1:06:18Rich Roll?

  And you can't, you're not gonna be able to like redline it from the gun.

• 1:06:21Speaker 02

  And I didn't.

• 1:06:22Rich Roll?

  Like you did on the bike.

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  I didn't.

• 1:06:23Rich Roll?

  Expect to be standing.

• 1:06:24Speaker 02

  I talked with Hillary before the race. I'm like, what do you, what do you plan on running? And she's like, seven, I can't remember, she said 730s. Or 730, not 730s. And.

• 1:06:37Speaker 02

  We had a little bit of discussion and you're right, dude, those guys took off like it was a 5K. And I let everybody go. And I said, I'm sticking to eight minutes. And I did. I hit the first marathon at 3:22, 23. I felt great. I had run with Hillary a couple of miles. We had talked. That was really cool. That was a really good experience for me because she, now she's a mind game player too, but not in the sense, she's just such a competitor that she is so,

• 1:07:07Speaker 02

  I don't think though that I've ever experienced any other athlete so in tune with their body.

• 1:07:12Rich Roll?

  Well, I mean, she has so much experience.

• 1:07:14Speaker 02

  It's ridiculous. She's just so smart and so savvy and so. So I ran with her. We ran together for a while. I was like, I'm running eight. Just stay with me. And she clipping away and we were talking and, and then there was a point around mile 22 or 20 that I just was like, I just felt good. I just kept going. I caught cheaper and then at mile 26, I told Joe and Rhonda and I was like, don't tell me where anybody's at until the first marathon's over. And Lennox is like, Joe's like, dude, Ribero's walking. Something's wrong with his hip. He's got, he's got a hitch in his giddy up, he said. He's like, you're going to catch him, man. And I'd already caught cheaper and I was in third.

• 1:07:55Speaker 02

  I think I was in third. And then between miles in 26 and 30.

• 1:08:00Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 1:08:01Rich Roll?

  Starts to unwind.

• 1:08:04Rich Roll?

  Throwing up again? What's going on? Cramps?

• 1:08:07Speaker 02

  Throwing up. I just threw up for the next 22 miles. Constantly. It was gross.

• 1:08:13Rich Roll?

  What was your nutrition? What were you using for nutrition?

• 1:08:17Speaker 02

  Well, at that time, I, by then I was on the coke. And I remember Chris telling me, wait as long as you can on the coke. But I was, the first 10 miles, I had diarrhea really bad, so I had to stop.

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  My stomach was really messed up from the, from the day, just from everything. But I just had this horrible cramping in my stomach. Cramping like you'd had food poisoning cramping. I stopped and had used a bathroom a couple of times, pushed a lot of fluids. And my, my idea was just to drink. I had scratch. I had some water. I had some Gatorade. I had gels. I was just doing my best to, and Rhonda was like, you gotta get solids in banana. I mean, we were, I was just trying to, that first marathon to get as much as I could in so the back half, I could stick with the coke and the water. But it didn't matter. Whatever I put in, I threw up.

• 1:09:05Rich Roll?

  And so what are you doing? You're walking?

• 1:09:08Speaker 02

  Was I walking?

• 1:09:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:09Speaker 02

  I walked, yeah, but not, not, I mean, I walked.

• 1:09:12Rich Roll?

  From mile 26 to, so what are we talking about?

• 1:09:15Speaker 02

  I hit mile 26 and Rhonda said she saw a change in me at mile 23, but she didn't say anything to me.

• 1:09:22Speaker 02

  I didn't feel it till mile 26 or 27 because I got my first split. Steve King was like, Christian's gaining. I felt good. My, my, my motivation was high. My morale was up. I changed my shoes, but then I went back. My shoes were hurting.

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  And then I turned around around mile 31 or 32, or maybe it was a little bit even later than that. I saw Hillary coming. And Joe and Dorothy, they ran with me the last 22 miles on and off. And they were tenacious about not letting me walk.

• 1:09:56Speaker 02

  Just tenacious. And I remember at one point too, I had fallen onto the floor and I was like, oh Lord, help me. And Dorothy's like, get up, you can pray later. We're running. And she's just five foot one, you know, stuff, but I just, I tried everything and nothing would stay down.

• 1:10:11Rich Roll?

  So that last 10 miles, where are you in the standings? Like, so you still have Ribero and Miro ahead of you?

• 1:10:18Speaker 02

  Hillary caught me and

• 1:10:19Rich Roll?

  Hillary?

• 1:10:20Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't think Sheppard caught me again. Somebody else caught me. Another Brazilian guy caught me, but he was like ninth or 10th. And I know there's a change that takes place in me because it was at that point, I was like, I don't care. What place is he in 10th? Who cares? Let him catch me.

• 1:10:34Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:10:34Speaker 02

  Whereas normally I'd be like, I gotta go, man. But, but Rich, I was hurting. I was hurting like I'd never hurt before.

• 1:10:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:42Speaker 02

  And it was insulting, man. Just like visceral. To the point where you think everybody's out to get, I remember telling Dorothy, shut up. I was like, Dorothy, you can't talk anymore. Cause they were trying to encourage me and after they were like, try to keep his mind on other things. And

• 1:11:04Speaker 02

  the pro that lives next to, to Lieto in Hawaii, he's the Austrian guy.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  Tom, he, he rode next to me for a couple of miles.

• 1:11:15Speaker 02

  He's like, and he knew I was Chris Lieto's friend and, but I don't know if Joe and Dorothy would have been there if I would have finished.

• 1:11:23Rich Roll?

  So how, how do you get to the finish line?

• 1:11:27Speaker 02

  I just, I was praying the whole time.

• 1:11:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  And, and even Gorley had mentioned to me, he's like,

• 1:11:33Speaker 02

  I don't think I've ever seen anything like, I think that maybe God was the only one that got you through there. Cause it was, it was, um,

• 1:11:38Rich Roll?

  Bad shape.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  Ian was crying, Rhonda was crying, Ian was scared.

• 1:11:44Speaker 02

  It just hurt dude.

• 1:11:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:47Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:11:47Rich Roll?

  So you, so you cross the finish line and so Miro, Miro wins the double marathon.

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  Miro got tagged twice.

• 1:11:56Rich Roll?

  But Miro, but Miro ends up pulling out like this crazy hail Mary and ends up winning the race. Cause he, he was able to get enough of a gap on Alexander.

• 1:12:05Speaker 02

  With still two, two penalties. He had 12 minute penalties.

• 1:12:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah, exactly. And the penalties. So Alexander gets it together enough to

• 1:12:14Rich Roll?

  finish the race in second place.

• 1:12:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:16Rich Roll?

  He didn't get passed by you, but Hillary gets third, right?

• 1:12:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:20Rich Roll?

  In the, in the double marathon. And then you come in at seven hours. What was your?

• 1:12:26Speaker 02

  I can't, uh, no, I think I was, I think I was just over eight.

• 1:12:30Rich Roll?

  You were just over eight. Yeah. So you had a hard time.

• 1:12:32Speaker 02

  It was Sheeper. It was, it was Ribero or it was Krieger, Ribero, Sheeper, Hillary, me. Um, I was fourth male, fifth overall.

• 1:12:39Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:12:41Speaker 02

  And Ribero was the first one to congratulate me. I mean, he was, that was, that was, that was a big deal for me.

• 1:12:49Rich Roll?

  Dude, if you can just balance those three days out a little bit better, you know what I mean? Like you, you, you're all over the map, you know?

• 1:12:56Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:12:57Rich Roll?

  And it started off, it's not, you know, it just got off on the wrong foot because of the ocean and the stomach stuff. But you know, there's a, you can dial it in and like, perfect what you're doing. And I think you'll have a quantum leap in your performance.

• 1:13:09Speaker 02

  I met with the doctor when I got back and he told me, um, actually it was one of my old coaches who's a doctor and he's like, I think, he goes, I don't think you, I think you're underestimating the effects of that swim over the course of the next, cause even a couple of days after, I was still kind of, kind of loopy and dizzy. And it wasn't the type of looping disease you feel after doing a race. It was like, Mike, I was a little bit off balance. Um, but that swim was the biggest surprise of my life. So, and I'm not a natural swim, dude, you're, I, I don't have your abilities and talents or, or when, when, when Hillary gets out in the water and you see a swimmer swim like that, you're just like, what is, what am I seeing right now? It's like art.

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  The same way that Ribero and Krieger ran and rode. But I have work to do. I know that.

• 1:13:57Rich Roll?

  So when are you coming back?

• 1:14:00Speaker 02

  To race?

• 1:14:01Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:02Speaker 02

  I will be racing Ultraman Florida.

• 1:14:05Rich Roll?

  This year?

• 1:14:05Speaker 02

  Next year.

• 1:14:06Rich Roll?

  Next year?

• 1:14:06Speaker 02

  Next February.

• 1:14:07Rich Roll?

  So, okay, next February.

• 1:14:08Speaker 02

  And then, and then tentatively Ultraman Hawaii, the championships.

• 1:14:14Speaker 02

  The guy that won Canada should be there in Hawaii next year. And the guy that won Florida will be in Florida with Inaki, which will be good.

• 1:14:25Speaker 02

  I have a race in Bend.

• 1:14:27Rich Roll?

  Bend 250.

• 1:14:28Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:14:30Rich Roll?

  Good, man. Well, we gotta talk about, I want to talk about Africa, man. We've been going for two hours and 35 minutes.

• 1:14:39Speaker 02

  Dude, is this too long? What's up with that?

• 1:14:40Rich Roll?

  We haven't even talked about Africa.

• 1:14:42Speaker 02

  Is that cool that you have this long of a podcast?

• 1:14:45Rich Roll?

  I can do whatever I want.

• 1:14:58Rich Roll?

  All right, so this year has a little bit of a different focus for you.

• 1:15:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:15:03Rich Roll?

  It's a very service oriented thing. You just got back from Kenya.

• 1:15:06Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:15:07Rich Roll?

  And you showed me this five minute sort of trailer video.

• 1:15:11Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:15:12Rich Roll?

  From a documentary project that you're working on from this experience of being there.

• 1:15:16Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:15:17Rich Roll?

  So tell me what it is. I know it's called the Ameena Project.

• 1:15:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:15:20Rich Roll?

  Explain what this whole thing is about.

• 1:15:22Speaker 02

  So I just teamed up with Ian and Anne May. They started a nonprofit in Portland. Ian was, ran the caribou clinic in Kenya, which is a place where women that have been raped and are pregnant and have no way to get the stuff that they need. He, basically, him and his wife and his children moved to Kenya for three years. They got embedded in the culture, learned the language, and then they ran the caribou clinic. And then they came back to America. Well, the people that were there said, we miss you. And Ian said, find a place that needs some, that needs resources. And they went and found one of the most desolate, destitute areas.

• 1:16:04Speaker 02

  In Kenya and they established the Ameena Project, which is the name of their daughter. It's a school and it's a place where these kids that have absolutely no chance at a life at all, get education and food. And to see the reaction of these children, 75 to 80 kids a day come and through a strange course of events, I met up with him and I said, "Hey, I want to do what you're doing. I want to be a part of this. I want to bring medicine to this village. Here are my talents. This is what I do." And we met and we're like brothers, I mean. And he said, "Okay."

• 1:16:49Speaker 02

  So I said, "I want to raise some funds and some awareness for what you're doing." And that's where I met. So I went to Kenya with him.

• 1:16:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah. How long were you in Kenya for?

• 1:16:58Speaker 02

  I was gone for about two weeks, but I was only in Kenya for eight days or nine days because the travel is so crazy.

• 1:17:03Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:17:04Speaker 02

  I was at the Ameena Project for four or five days and then I went up to Eldoret, where the runners were, Kip Kango and the rim up there where all the big runners are at.

• 1:17:13Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 1:17:13Speaker 02

  I spent a couple of days up there with one of my closest friends, Ted, at Open Arms Village. He does mission work over there, too.

• 1:17:19Rich Roll?

  Interesting.

• 1:17:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:21Rich Roll?

  So just in watching the video and kind of how you explained it to me,

• 1:17:26Rich Roll?

  you know, it's unimaginable just how destitute this situation is and you're seeing, you know, these kids who are just in terrible physical condition and malnourished, et cetera. And I feel like, you know, we've become kind of, you know, what's the word?

• 1:17:48Rich Roll?

  You know, we see so much of this kind of footage, you know, and sort of like, oh, here's the...

• 1:17:52Speaker 02

  Just getting esthetized.

• 1:17:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah, like here's the kids in Africa and here's the plea to help and nothing ever seems to change. And it's like, yeah, you become numbed out to it.

• 1:18:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, you do.

• 1:18:05Rich Roll?

  And it seems so far away from my daily experience that it's easy for me to compartmentalize it and just be like, "All right, well, cool dude, nice, you know, keep it up."

• 1:18:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:15Rich Roll?

  And like, "Go, let's go to Starbucks," you know what I mean? Like, so what is, you know...

• 1:18:21Rich Roll?

  What is the solution? When you see that and you're just like, it's not getting any better. It's like, it's pretty freaking bad.

• 1:18:27Speaker 02

  It is getting better what they're doing here, though. And that, I think, is the big, there's a vortex and like a vacuum in the United States, especially when you have people in a room and you ask them for money. Because we have bastardized giving in the United States, where you give a dollar and 60 cents of it goes to an intern that's trying to take-

• 1:18:45Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, I think Americans are getting very hip and savvy to giving. And giving has changed and progressed in quite, quite a number of cool and interesting ways. And it's never been more awesome to be a social entrepreneur-

• 1:18:57Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:18:57Rich Roll?

  And to have, you know, an NGO. And, and like when I was in college, like, that was not something that people were that interested in doing. And now it's like, it's like, cool to do that.

• 1:19:07Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 1:19:08Rich Roll?

  And it's like, and there's a, there's a different vibe to it. But I also think that the American public, now because of technology, there are ways for these NGOs to connect the giver to the result of the give-

• 1:19:20Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:19:20Rich Roll?

  A way that didn't exist. And people are like, I don't want to give to, you know, I don't want to call a charity out, but like, big charity acts-

• 1:19:27Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:19:27Rich Roll?

  Because I have no idea where that money's going. It's probably going to pay rent at some skyscraper in Manhattan.

• 1:19:33Speaker 02

  I saw-

• 1:19:34Rich Roll?

  And not going to the well, you know what I mean? Like-

• 1:19:35Speaker 02

  Haiti is a great example of that. Haiti was a great example of where, where, where money didn't get to where it was supposed to go. And I haven't been charity-

• 1:19:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah, people have been burned. They're like-

• 1:19:46Speaker 02

  Right, right. And when I saw the results of what two people, a small, like four people in Portland are doing in, outside of Nairobi, in this little village, when you, because I've had people say like, dude, what do, I mean, because there are a lot of people just, dude, they don't care. And it's not a guilt thing. I'm like, whatever, that's cool. But like, when you see, like, when you see the tangible results of, of having your hands on these kids or these adults that have never been touched before by a white guy who they're heralded as godlike status, to come down off their perch and hug me and love me and cry with me and pray with me and touch me, the medicine is, doesn't even matter. And Ian told me that. He's like, you know what, dude?

• 1:20:27Speaker 02

  He goes, you think you're doing something by, you know, fixing their lesions and finding what's wrong with their hearts? And what you're doing and the love that you're showing, and dude, I'll tell you, the biggest thrill for me was to have those villagers ask me to not go.

• 1:20:44Speaker 02

  They're like, dude, don't go. And I told Rhonda, when I got back, that for me to function in that realm, made me feel like I was like, operating, I was doing what I was supposed to do. And nobody knew where I was at. And it correlated with endurance. And I started to think about all the times that I was lonely on the islands, or lonely in the races, where nobody knows where you're at, nobody's what you're doing. Except now, I am holding some lady's baby, who their mother has spent the last 13 years chewing her food, and giving it to her. That girl in the movie, her mom spent 13 years chewing her food to feed her

• 1:21:29Speaker 02

  because she can't do it.

• 1:21:31Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:21:33Speaker 02

  But it's so hard for people to understand that unless they go and see it.

• 1:21:38Rich Roll?

  But how do you, how do you solve the problem? Like, how do you create infrastructure there that will lead to a sustainable, you know, solution that can get to the root of this and rectify the problem? As opposed to, well, we just have to go visit every six months because no one else is there?

• 1:21:56Speaker 02

  And that's the interesting about the MENA project is Ian is employing and equipping Kenyans to take care of Kenyans. White man is not coming to fix the issue. I heard somebody once tell me before, it's kind of cool to adopt kids now, and it has been for a while. And I think adoption is vital. But, and I've talked to Al Cergel, your buddy, we've talked a little bit about this, and I've got some other friends that are in adoption. But if we don't equip Kenyans, or Haitians, or any places that aren't as fortunate and as blessed as we are, to take care of their own communities through what they do and not what we do, it won't be sustainable, Rich.

• 1:22:38Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:22:39Speaker 02

  Because we're putting a Band-Aid on an amputated hand. So Ian has-

• 1:22:42Rich Roll?

  And not only, it prevents real solution from taking root.

• 1:22:45Speaker 02

  It does. Exactly.

• 1:22:46Rich Roll?

  Because you become reliant upon the sort of, you know, caregiver, and you're never sort of having to solve it yourself.

• 1:22:54Speaker 02

  You're right, and Ian and Ann have formulated a nonprofit organization that has a school that feeds children twice a day where they are enabling Kenyans to be in charge of Kenyans. And when you see the results of children and their parents bringing them to the school and the kids clapping and singing and learning and like, you're giving hope to a hopeless situation and you're not forgetting the forgotten. And, you know, Ian told me, I paid $8 for a woman to go have her, we found her and she was dying from infection. She had, her whole leg was

• 1:23:34Speaker 02

  gangrenous and she was dying. And I paid $8 to get her to the hospital and now she's fixed. Ted, my buddy.

• 1:23:43Rich Roll?

  So there is that direct connection with the giver and you get to follow the

• 1:23:48Speaker 02

  Exactly. You just don't like piss your money away and you're like, where'd it go? I don't know. And you hear people say like, well, for the cost of a latte, you can feed a kid for, that stuff doesn't

• 1:23:57Rich Roll?

  Right, it just, it becomes white noise.

• 1:23:59Speaker 02

  Exactly. So, the Ameena Project and what Chris Lieto and More Than Sport are doing, that is what has been so needed in a, you know, in, in an avenue of our life that has been rusted. So.

• 1:24:20Rich Roll?

  So, and where is all this leading for you?

• 1:24:22Speaker 02

  Uh, well, I'll tell you, honestly, I think it's going to lead, like, the fundraiser and the awareness campaign that I'm doing and the, and the hope that I can help fund a medical access fund for the Kenyan people that live in Kiango Bay, which is my hope. And to help, I'm trying to even help raise some money for More Than Sport, for Chris and his operational costs, because I think what he's doing validates the need for athletes that are money-making machines to just do something. So, for me personally, it's going to hopefully lead me there again and again and again.

• 1:24:59Rich Roll?

  And how does, so for the listener, Chris Lieto, pro triathlete, Ironman champion guy, he has his own foundation, it's called More Than Sport.

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:25:07Rich Roll?

  Essentially what they do is, well, Chris came up with this idea because as a result of being a pro triathlete, he gets to go to all these amazing, beautiful tropical locations for these races and he gets to stay in nice hotels. And it's only when he's out on the bike or on the run where he sees the kind of, the reality of where these places are and he can see the way people are actually living. And it occurred to him, like, we come in for a weekend, we do this race and we leave, we should really invest in these communities that we are so fortunate to visit. So he starts this foundation and the idea is you stay after the race and you contribute in some way.

• 1:25:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:45Rich Roll?

  Whether it's building a house or, my understanding is it takes different forms for different places, et cetera.

• 1:25:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's in the Philippines, right? He's in the Philippines right now.

• 1:25:51Rich Roll?

  He is, wow.

• 1:25:52Speaker 02

  Where that, where the tsunami, or the, I think it was the flood at, he's in the Philippines right now doing a basketball camp with an, like, an NBA basketball camp.

• 1:26:01Rich Roll?

  A typhoon.

• 1:26:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. Maybe it was a typhoon, yeah.

• 1:26:03Rich Roll?

  But how does More Than Sport like dovetail with Ameena Project in Kenya? Like, how does that work?

• 1:26:10Speaker 02

  Right. Well, number one, we use each other as support and encouragement on like just a base level. But the way that More Than Sport is formulated is, you know, he's got Chrissy Wellington, Craig Alexander, the US Cycling Team, a couple of pro surfers, one of the San Francisco Giants pitchers, and you actually use the infrastructure that Chris has built with a, with his legal team and 501(c)(3) status to basically promote a cause that's, that's personal to the athlete and it gives an avenue for you to build a awareness campaign around what you feel, you know, like Craig Alexander's part in More Than Sport, he works with the

• 1:26:55Speaker 02

  Byrne Foundation, I think, and where he's from and I think Luke McKenzie might even be a part of it. But it's a, it's a way...

• 1:27:05Speaker 02

  It's more than the just do it campaign, you know, it's neat to see Chris say it's more than just the finish line. And he's legit, man. I mean, you've hung with him, so.

• 1:27:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but it's the follow through. It's the difference between the statement and the action. It's all about like, all right, well, he actually is in the Philippines and he's doing this. And I know he's built houses and he's done all these amazing things. And I've seen how that organization has kind of organically grown over the last couple of years and it's not going anywhere but up.

• 1:27:39Speaker 02

  Dude, it's like, I was listening to your podcast, was it Nice? Who is the film guy from Manhattan? Nice Stat?

• 1:27:44Rich Roll?

  Oh, Casey Neistat, yeah.

• 1:27:46Speaker 02

  In his, in his clip that he's got, where he's going around the world, there's that clip from Gandhi that says, action shows, what does it say? Action signifies priorities. And that's what Chris is, his action signifies, you know, the priorities. So.

• 1:28:06Rich Roll?

  Right, right.

• 1:28:07Speaker 02

  So we're doing the Ameena Project fundraiser and we'll see where that goes.

• 1:28:11Rich Roll?

  Right, cool. And, and you're looking to go back to Kenya at some point, right?

• 1:28:16Speaker 02

  Yep. And the cool thing is I'm able to network all the people that I have supporting me. And I've told that, like, the sponsors that I have, the Adidas and Polar, and I'm not trying to plug these guys, but I've told them, look, I'm not the world's greatest athlete. I'm telling you right now, I've said the same thing, but you gave me this advice. I'm like, here's what I can give you. Here's where my legs will go, but here's where my heart will take us. And it seems to really resonate with some of the people that have been working with me. So I think, I think we're at an age where even some of the great athletic corporations, I'm starting to see now that, man, there is more than just sport. And like Damon Lillard from the Portland Trail Blazers has got a big campaign up there for bullying, you know,

• 1:29:00Speaker 02

  so there's just, it's just cool. It's just really cool.

• 1:29:03Rich Roll?

  Cool, man.

• 1:29:04Speaker 02

  Cool, man.

• 1:29:05Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's awesome. I'm excited to see where, where this takes you in your life, man. It's awesome.

• 1:29:10Speaker 02

  Well, thanks, Rich. Dude, I didn't mean to, when you said two hours, 30 minutes, I'm like, man, dude.

• 1:29:14Rich Roll?

  What do we do? Dude, we're at 250. But you know what? This is not the, I went longer with, uh, who was it? Oh, Mac Danzig and I. We went like over three hours, I think. So don't sweat it. No, let's wrap it up. I'm hungry.

• 1:29:30Rich Roll?

  I think we did it though.

• 1:29:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:31Rich Roll?

  Did we do it?

• 1:29:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:33Rich Roll?

  How you feel?

• 1:29:34Speaker 02

  I feel good. It's a dream come true and I know.

• 1:29:36Rich Roll?

  Your expectation's too high. I don't want to like, you know.

• 1:29:39Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 1:29:39Rich Roll?

  It's all good?

• 1:29:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's really good, man. I really, really appreciate it.

• 1:29:43Rich Roll?

  That was a pleasure, man.

• 1:29:44Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 1:29:45Rich Roll?

  You're an inspiration and, um, and, uh, it is going to be cool to see what, what happens next in your life, man. And I will eagerly, uh, follow you and await to see what occurs.

• 1:29:58Speaker 02

  Well, I hope this isn't the last time I'm with you, man. So.

• 1:30:00Rich Roll?

  No, I don't think it's gonna be. So cool. All right. Uh, you want to find out more about Christian? Best place to do that is christianisaixon.com, right?

• 1:30:10Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:30:11Rich Roll?

  And, uh, on Twitter, you're Luke920.

• 1:30:14Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:30:14Rich Roll?

  Right? So.

• 1:30:15Speaker 02

  Instagram Luke920.

• 1:30:16Rich Roll?

  Tell me what Luke920 is real quick.

• 1:30:18Speaker 02

  Luke920 is a verse from the Bible that says, "Who do you say that I am?" And, uh, one of the great philosophers of the time said, "Whether you are a Christian or not a Christian, or believe in God, or believe in Jesus, or don't, um, it's a question that everybody has to answer. Who, you know, who do you say Christ is? And, um, for me, it's just a good catalyst to, to talk to people and just say, "Hey, man, this is what Christ has done in my life and, um, you know, he, he loves me and he loves you." And, um, it's just one of those little verses in the Bible that has really, um, it pierces me every time I come up to a, to a, to a tumultuous time, whether I'm in a race or, uh, I'm in Kenya.

• 1:31:03Speaker 02

  When I come up and I look at my own securities and I hear that voice, "Who do you say I am, man?" Cause if you say I am who the Bible says I am, then you should have no problem here.

• 1:31:15Rich Roll?

  And on your, on your site, um, your kind of avatar or your like sort of graphic is like this kind of faceless man with the glasses.

• 1:31:24Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:31:25Rich Roll?

  And your tagline is really, uh, you know, I am nothing.

• 1:31:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:31:29Rich Roll?

  Right. Which is, which I interpret as just this sort of, you know, profession of humility. But I'm interested in where that comes from.

• 1:31:37Speaker 02

  That comes from John 330 that says, um, he must increase and I must decrease. And you know, when you say humility, Rich, it's funny because I was thinking about that because I think that about you. Um, and you don't ever even have to say it and you, you just, you exude humility. Um, and I think that's one of the things that, that I read, that was the biggest theme for, for me, reading your book. Rhonda said the same thing. But in the Bible, it never says be humble. It always says humble yourself. It's an action because we as humans are wired to, to not humble ourselves, to be in the spotlight.

• 1:32:17Speaker 02

  I want the attention regardless of how many causes I try to have people look at. Um, so I just want to make sure that, um, I, I humble myself before, um, Christ because those verses work together because he humbled himself every day by coming down here and being with us. Um, you know, a lot of people think like, ah, Jesus died on the cross for your sins. But dude, every day he woke up and died to himself, um, for, for me and for you and for other people. So, um, and the other, the other thing is the I am nothing and the faceless thing is dude, you're the first one to pick up on that.

• 1:32:56Rich Roll?

  What do you mean?

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  The, the faceless, like no, just my glasses.

• 1:33:00Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:33:00Speaker 02

  Um, and that correlation, um, it's just funny because they go together. Like I'm just.

• 1:33:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah, of course they do.

• 1:33:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, but you are the first person that has ever.

• 1:33:12Rich Roll?

  Well, maybe I'm, I'm sure other people see that.

• 1:33:15Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, but I mean, just like verbalize it to me like, oh man, that's kind of cool. So, um, anyway, dude.

• 1:33:21Rich Roll?

  All right, well, all right, Luke920.

• 1:33:24Speaker 02

  Luke920.

• 1:33:24Rich Roll?

  On Instagram, it's Luke920.

• 1:33:26Speaker 02

  Luke920 on Instagram, L U K E nine two zero. And then on Twitter, Luke920. And I'm redoing my website. My blog is going to be, it's going to be much more streamlined, so it'll make sense. But all my links are on my website.

• 1:33:38Rich Roll?

  Cool. And Ameena Project.

• 1:33:42Speaker 02

  AminaProject.org, you can find links there, too.

• 1:33:44Rich Roll?

  A M E E N A.

• 1:33:45Speaker 02

  Yep. Check them out, man. Facebook, too. All the stuff is on my social media sites. Cool, man.

• 1:33:51Rich Roll?

  All right, man.

• 1:33:52Speaker 02

  All right, dude, love you.

• 1:33:52Rich Roll?

  Boom, we did it.

• 1:33:53Speaker 02

  Right on.

• 1:33:53Rich Roll?

  All right, peace. Plants.

• 1:34:02Rich Roll?

  All right, everybody, that's our show. How to Go For You. Tell me what you think. Let me know in the comments section at richroll.com on the episode page for this particular episode. And why don't you just go and let Christian know on his social media as well. And don't forget to give us a review on iTunes if it feels right to you. I'm not saying give us a five star review, just tell me what you think. Let us know there. Again, if you're stuck or frustrated with your life and not sure how to get off the don, check out my new course, The Art of Living with Purpose, on MindBodyGreen.com. We have that iOS app, iPhone, iPad app, coming soon for the podcast. We're in the final stages of just tweaking it a little bit.

• 1:34:45Rich Roll?

  And it's going to be up pretty, pretty much, I guess it has to go through the whole like Apple approval process thing, but hopefully we'll have that done pretty soon and up to you guys. I'll keep you posted. Next week, I'm going to be back with Julie on the podcast. A quick little note, I've gotten messages from a couple people saying, where are all the women? It's a dude fest on your show. I'm aware of that. I actually have a bunch of interviews with some really cool women, females, coming up soon. So I'm aware that it's been a little while since I've had a cool woman on the show. And I just wanted to let everybody know that we got lots of great women coming up. I'm on top of it. Anyway, after Beirut, I'm off to Saudi Arabia.

• 1:35:30Rich Roll?

  I've got three cities I'm going to go to there for public speaking. I'm going to be in Jeddah, Riyadh, and Al Qabar. And I'll post Julie's episode from there and let you know what it's like in that part of the world. The conversation I had with Julie is a really great one. Lots of stuff about gratitude and a lot of helpful information on that. So, look forward to that. That'll be going up late. My plan is to get that up again late Sunday night. That's it. I want to support the show. Tell a friend. You know what to do. Use the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. Won't cost you anything. Amazon kicks us some commission change and that has helped us out a lot, you guys. Thank you so much for doing that. You can also donate to the show.

• 1:36:15Rich Roll?

  You can subscribe on a weekly basis or a monthly basis by throwing a little bit of coin our way. The show's always free. You don't have to do it. But for those of you who have taken that extra step and supported us in that way, we greatly, greatly appreciate it. So, thanks so much. Don't forget to throw up an Instagram picture of you listening to the show. Again, I love that stuff. Go to richroll.com for all your plant power provisions. We've got t-shirts, beanies, or as they call them in Canada, tuques, trucker hats, nutritional products like my Athletic Recovery Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, our new Ion Electrolyte Supplement, and lots of more stuff on the way. All right, I'm out of here. Thanks, you guys. I'll check back in with you in a few days when I get to Saudi Arabia.

• 1:37:00Rich Roll?

  And until then, do something that scares you. You might just surprise yourself. Peace. Plants.