Covid Whistleblower: Predicting Pandemics & Exposing the CIA and Peter Daszak’s Alliance With China

The people who created the Covid virus have never been punished. Dr. Andrew Huff knows them personally, which is why they’re trying to terrorize him into silence. (00:00) Peter Daszak, USAID, and Predicting Pandemics (08:49) The Moment Huff Realized His Company Was Doing Gain-Of-Function Research (14:07) China’s Bioweapons Labs, Wuhan, and the CIA (39:44) Big Pharma and the Government’s Covid Psyop (50:53) How They Targeted Dr. Huff for Speaking Out (1:00:35) Dr. Huff Being Mysteriously Followed (1:25:00) Was Anyone Held Accountable for Terrorizing Dr. Huff? Paid partnerships with: GCU: Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University. Learn more at https://GCU.edu Byrna: Go to https://Byrna.com or your local Sportsman's Warehouse today. Last Country Supply: Real prep starts with the basics. Here’s what I keep stocked: lastcountrysupply.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Now for a quick message from Anthropic, the team behind Claude, the AI built for businesses. Customers count on their bank and banks count on their most important systems. Now those systems count on Claude and nine of the Fortune 10 companies use it for critical work. See why leading companies trust Claude at claude.ai/span.

• 0:25Tucker Carlson?

  So I think most people have concluded that the creation of COVID was probably not what they told us. It probably didn't evolve naturally out of a pangolin in a seafood market and that the Wuhan Institute of Virology probably played a role, the US government played a role, but it is impossible to find anyone, or has been for us anyway, to find anyone who has kind of like direct connection to any of the main players here. None of them will do an interview. None. You were the vice president of the Eco Health Alliance. You're former military guy, ties to the intel world. You worked at federal nuclear lab in New Mexico for years.

• 1:08Tucker Carlson?

  And then you wind up, and you're a scientist PhD, and then you wind up working for Eco Health Alliance in New York City. You think it's like this World Wildlife Fund operation designed to like track diseases among wildlife globally and protect the wildlife, protect the people. It's like kind of a crunchy outfit. It's do-gooders, basically. You show up there, you help them raise a bunch of money from the feds and you become the vice president. And then you discover it's not what you thought. So that's the story that you told me at breakfast, which was an amazing story. Thank you again for coming. I'm going to bow out now and let you continue the story from there, assuming I've been faithful in my rendition of it so far.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  That's perfectly accurate. And thank you for having me. This is sort of like a dream of mine.

• 1:55Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, well, I'm so excited you're here. And because this has been gnawing at me.

• 2:01Tucker Carlson?

  You know, where did COVID come from? And how was the US government implicated? It clearly was, but you never meet anyone who can say that they know the players, but you do.

• 2:29Tucker Carlson?

  So with that, you show up there, you become VP of Eco Health Alliance, the now famous Eco Health Alliance. And when did you start to realize this wasn't the World Wildlife Fund?

• 2:40Speaker 02

  Shortly after I was working there. So I was hired as a senior scientist to take over a, well, I learned after the fact, I sort of lied to, but it was a failing department that was doing predictive forecasting and analytics. And after I brought in all that money from the Department of Defense, I actually sort of saved Eco Health Alliance. It was financially on the rocks. That $4 million really transformed the organization. And with that, in my expertise in technology, I was actually improving the systems and technology company-wide. Peter Daszak, who is the president or CEO of Eco Health Alliance, liked everything that I was doing. He was very impressed.

• 3:16Tucker Carlson?

  Peter Daszak is like a figure out of history now. I mean, Peter Daszak is like at the very center of COVID.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  Oh, absolutely. And we'll get to that. So Peter promotes me to Vice President. And then I started attending executive meetings and I get involved in all the different other aspects of the company, or at least visibility to what's going on. The main driver of funding of Eco Alliance was from this program called PREDICT. And PREDICT was funded by USAID to go out and conduct global surveillance of infectious diseases to predict and forecast emerging pandemics. At least that's what they were telling everyone they were going to do.

• 3:51Tucker Carlson?

  That seems like a virtuous thing to do, by the way.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  No, and it seemed completely virtuous. And I had actually been doing that type of research my entire career, at least as a scientist and engineer. And I was doing that type of work at the National Laboratory. I continued that work funded by the Defense Threat Reduction Agency when I was at Eco Alliance. That's where the first big check comes from, for $4.6 million. And once I'm promoted and I'm looking at this USAID PREDICT program, I decided to go dig into the literature and all the technical reports to see what this is and how it actually works. And I read through this, this phone book of material and I, I assess that it's a giant boondoggle. There's no way that they're going to be able to predict or forecast infectious

• 4:37Speaker 02

  diseases. They weren't collecting enough samples globally or in the countries that where they are collecting them. They weren't collecting the data on a systematic and routine basis, which is one of the fundamental core concepts in biosurveillance. And you start to ask a question, well,

• 4:52Tucker Carlson?

  So this is your area, I should just say, like, you've done a lot of research into, how do you model this out? Like, how do you collect the data? How do you analyze it?

• 5:00Speaker 02

  I, I, I make the bold claim that I'm probably one of the world's leading experts in the area. I'm one of the few people to actually predict and forecast infectious diseases before they've occurred. And I've done peer reviewed literature and I was actually so bold when I built my models and tested them, I actually had this published in, I think it was the Guardian newspaper, the New York Post, before the outbreak hit. And this was the Zika, remember Zika virus?

• 5:24Tucker Carlson?

  Very well, yeah.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  I was working at Eco Health Alliance, one of the models that I developed actually forecasted the amount of Zika virus that we'd receive in the United States and where specifically. And I published that before it happened.

• 5:36Tucker Carlson?

  So you, you were very familiar with the technical details of a study of this kind?

• 5:41Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 5:41Tucker Carlson?

  Of monitoring of this, like, how big is the sample have to be in order to do this?

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Well, so the devil's always in the details. It depends on the, the characteristics of the infectious disease agent they're talking about, the population, where that population's located, the type of infrastructure. There's a lot of technical nuance because it's how healthy is the population? What is the probability that they'll be exposed to something?

• 6:04Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  And then what will be, what were the, what are the likely transmission dynamics within that population?

• 6:10Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  And does it have the ability to go from a small, isolated outbreak to an epidemic to a pandemic?

• 6:16Tucker Carlson?

  So, but because this is your specific area, you look at the details of what Eco Health Alliance, your new employer is now doing, and it's immediately obvious to you, like instantly obvious that this is not real?

• 6:28Speaker 02

  It, it wasn't real. And the, the real crazy aspect of here is that, once I'm promoted, I'm going to all these different meetings with the funders of the program. So Dr. Dennis Carroll, who is the program manager, program director at USAID, who had a very close relationship with Dr. Peter Daszak, and these fundraising events we're doing, where we're telling everyone that we're going to go, we're going to forecast and predict. These emerging infectious diseases that can cause pandemics and I'm sitting in the audience and I'm watching my boss and these other people telling everyone that they're doing this. And like I mentioned, if you look at the technical reports, it's just very clear that this is not technically possible. So it begs the question, you know,

• 7:11Speaker 02

  as me being an ethical person and a good scientist and engineer, what are we doing here?

• 7:16Tucker Carlson?

  Because we're not doing the thing we said we were doing.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  Exactly. And, you know, it gets sort of darker than that real quick. So, once I'm sitting in these executive meetings, one of the first meetings that I sit in is a budget, a budget, a budget, a budget forecasting meeting.

• 7:32Tucker Carlson?

  Budget, though, that's perfect.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's budget, maybe the good Friday and slip, a budget forecasting meeting for the company. And each vice president in charge of the area is going around talking about our budget, how our employees are doing, you know, operations types of things, typical corporate stuff. And, you know, I asked the question because I'm, well, how much money are we spending on wildlife conservation? And because when I interviewed at the company and all our branding and marketing messaging was that we're doing infectious disease research to protect wildlife and engage in conservation activities or something to that effect. And the room goes quiet. And, you know, I'm looking at everyone and why is everyone sort of staring into space or staring at me? And eventually, Peter Daszak looks at me and what sort of

• 8:15Speaker 02

  a maniacal act is we're not doing, we're not doing any conservation work.

• 8:19Tucker Carlson?

  This is like nightmares.

• 8:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I'm just, I'm just shocked. And, you know, I came directly from the National Laboratory System, San Diego National Laboratories. And I was trying to get away from that type of work. I was actually excited to go work at a crunchy granola nonprofit organization where I was protecting wildlife.

• 8:44Tucker Carlson?

  The Autobahn Society.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. And as we, as we were discussing earlier, we're both avid outdoorsmen. We love nature, that kind of thing. And I thought I was going to get into more of that. I was excited, like, hey, maybe I'll get a chance to have a trip out to the woods or the jungle and go protect some wildlife. And I hear this and I'm like, okay. And, you know, I digested, of course, I don't say anything. It's my boss, my other, the other executives. And then it drives more questions. You know, what, what are we doing here? So I sat and sat in more executive meetings. I learned more and I quickly, you know, learned that we were sort of functioning as a Beltway Bandit type of operation, meaning that we're trying to get large contracts and grants in our area, which is in theory,

• 9:27Speaker 02

  predicting and forecasting infectious diseases. But really what we were doing was, the simplest way of explaining it is that we were running around the planet, collecting infectious disease samples to build a bank or a library of infectious diseases, which was odd.

• 9:45Tucker Carlson?

  And I'm sorry to keep laughing. It's so, this is so dark. I don't, I can't help it.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  Well, it was odd from the standpoint, I was still looking at this as a scientist, trying to figure out what we were doing. And there's not a ton of publication value in cataloging infectious diseases. You can get one simple publication from identifying a newer novel pathogen in a species, but it's sort of a one and done thing. It doesn't really drive future research, right? So if you find you discover something, it's a great, you found it as a publication, but that's not going to drive your next cycle of funding because typically you want to be very strategic about this. Well, then if you start to look at the other portfolio of research at Ecoeth Alliance and what some of my peers, other vice presidents in their areas of research, what they're up to and the places where our employees had joint employment or co-employment with, and the

• 10:35Speaker 02

  work that they were doing, it became apparently obvious. We were engaging in gain-of-function research and viral discovery to make new novel pathogens. And I wanted nothing to do with it.

• 10:51Tucker Carlson?

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• 11:23Tucker Carlson?

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• 12:05Tucker Carlson?

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• 14:09Tucker Carlson?

  So you're rather than like predicting the threat to human and wildlife populations, you're actually just creating new deadly viruses.

• 14:18Speaker 02

  Exactly. And

• 14:20Tucker Carlson?

  This is not what they advertised on LinkedIn.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  No, this was, it wasn't even LinkedIn. It was actually after their website, but you get it.

• 14:29Speaker 02

  The, the, the funny part is if you look at the gain of function work and how they were even spinning it was that they were trying to even make the argument scientifically in the peer reviewed literature that this gain of function work that they're doing, and this was through Dr. Ralph Barrick's laboratory at the University of North Carolina, that they could model and simulate pandemic potential from the gain of function work. And that in itself is a scientific fraud, in my opinion. It's not really possible to predict how a disease will spread in the community, either of animals, humans, wildlife, from looking at the genetics and doing gain of function work.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  But that's what the, the argument that they were effectively making back to the US government and other sponsors of our research portfolio. In my book, I discussed this, but you know, Dr. Anthony Fauci gets a lot of the blame for this gain of function work. And I wrote numerous whistleblower complaints. I think I wrote whistleblower complaints to every US agency involved, DOD, DHS, USDA, Fish and Wildlife. It's a long list, the CIA, which we can get to in a little bit. So it's very clear that. The research that we're doing had an earlier origin than Dr. Anthony Fauci.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  And that's really USAID and maybe the State Department formulating a relationship with the Chinese at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. And if you follow the proposals or scientific proposals and technical proposals, which were submitted to the US government and trace that back, and I have all the original documents to prove this, it looks like the path for developing the gain-of-function partnership with the Chinese bioweapons lab began around 2010 or 11.

• 16:26Tucker Carlson?

  What was the purpose of that relationship?

• 16:29Speaker 02

  Well, at the time, I had no idea. And this is specifically, I'm talking like 2015, 2016.

• 16:39Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Fast forward to today, I have much more information where I can sort of, you know, I thought about this in great detail and had, have had a number of other interviews. And I came to the conclusion that the purpose, real purpose, actually, of Ecoeth Alliance doing the scan of function research with the Wuhan Institute of Virology was for us to collect intelligence on the Chinese bioweapons lab. And, you know, I had this very interesting moment when I worked at Ecoeth Alliance where it was around the holidays, I think it was in late 2015. I was working late to finish our project and Dr. Daszak was working late on our project.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  And actually, as a coworker, working with Dr. Peter Daszak was fantastic. He was an extremely hard worker, very diligent. He knew the publication game, he knew how to woo the people, the program sponsors that were funding our work. So professionally, I loved working with him in that aspect.

• 17:40Tucker Carlson?

  Smart.

• 17:40Speaker 02

  Very, well.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  I would say cunning.

• 17:44Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 17:45Speaker 02

  I don't think he was much of a scientist. Actually, I think he's very weak as a scientist and engineer. But in terms of a project manager and a program manager, he was very, very strong.

• 17:54Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  So we're leaving, we're locking up the office. We're in the vestibule up in the 15th floor of our building in New York City. And he goes, Andrew, do you mind if I ask you a question? It's my boss. Sure, Peter, go ahead. Well, somebody from the CIA approached me and they're interested in the places we're working, the people we're working with and the data that we're collecting. Do you think it's a good idea that I, that I speak with them?

• 18:25Speaker 02

  And he just said a lot of things which just set off all my alarms because I came from the, you know, I'm a product of, you know, the so-called deep state of the national security complex. I have held a top secret clearance. And here's my boss telling me that he had a side conversation with the CIA and I have all these immediate thoughts. Was he really talking to someone from the CIA? Was it someone pretending to be from the CIA?

• 18:47Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  Because I'm like, does this guy know what he's dealing with?

• 18:50Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  You know, I had to say something. I said, Peter, it never hurts to speak with them. There could be money in it.

• 18:58Speaker 02

  And it was, I think, a very honest, direct assessment of what he had just told me. We made small talk. We went down the elevator and we went our separate ways. I walked home to my, my place up on the 45th street and that was the end of it. Well, over the next, you know, several weeks, in between meetings at the coffee cooler, I had asked Peter, I'm like, hey, how's that thing with the CIA going? And, you know, you know, he wouldn't say much, but you know, the, you know, sort of indicated that it was progressing. And about the third time I asked him, he was mum about it. He didn't want to, he didn't want to talk about it anymore. And so I don't know if he was trying to tell me what he was actually up to because I was from that world or if he just really wanted my honest opinion. I have no idea.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  But now, fast forward to SARS-CoV-2, COVID.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  And everything that's happened, it's very clear to me that Peter Daszak was probably used as a CIA asset to obtain access to that laboratory in the way that we obtained access to that laboratory. Cause mind you, it was well known in my circles, going all the way back to when I was a PhD student, that this laboratory in Wuhan was essentially the Chinese military's bioweapons laboratory. So how would you get access to it? Right? They're not going to allow Westerners to just come in. And where Senator Rand Paul and a number of other congressmen have been completely wrong about this in opinion, and

• 20:26Speaker 02

  I've told them so in writing, is that this wasn't the US government giving the Chinese $400,000 to conduct gain-of-function research. I mean, just think about how preposterous this is.

• 20:42Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, they don't, they don't need the money.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  They don't need the money.

• 20:44Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 20:45Speaker 02

  So, so what do they need? What do you think?

• 20:48Tucker Carlson?

  Technical expertise, I would think.

• 20:49Speaker 02

  And what else? The actual technology.

• 20:53Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  So the technical expertise and the technology. So the trade that was made is that we were actually transferring advanced biotechnology from Dr. Ralph Barrick's laboratory to the Chinese for access to the laboratory. So we could collect intelligence on it. And some of that might, you know, fall under the, the umbrella of scientific diplomacy, which I'm actually a huge proponent of, but not with the Chinese. And that's where I-

• 21:17Tucker Carlson?

  So I don't know. I have no, you know, I have no way to evaluate what you're saying, but except against things I've seen in other areas. And that is exactly how the world works. What you just said, that is, that is, that's how things really are. Right? Is the US government makes deals with people that they, not really on their, you know, whoever it is, Gaddafi, Maduro, I mean, there's longstanding and ongoing relationships with a lot of people I think the public would be shocked to know we're in relationship with, but the motive is always the same. The closer I get, the more intel I can gather.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  I think your, your, your assessment of the, the global scheme of which, how the US government operates and, and formulates relationships is accurate.

• 21:59Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I've seen it.

• 22:00Speaker 02

  And I think a lot of that is doctrine. You know, they want to try to obtain close relationships with the highest ranking government officials possible. And sometimes the, the methods and how they do that are questionable.

• 22:12Tucker Carlson?

  But it's always the same. I mean, you'll be, this literally happened to me the other day. You're talking to, you know, a well-informed person and they're like, oh yeah, yeah, I knew so and so. It's like, what? What? How in the world were you connected to that person who's bad? You've got the human equivalent of the Wuhan Institute of Virology. And it's like, well, because like that person is someone who has a lot of information that we want.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  Oh, absolutely. And I've, I've met a number of intel agents from various agencies that, that showed me pictures of the very high-profile evil people.

• 22:43Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  And I, I actually have no problem with that.

• 22:49Tucker Carlson?

  Muammar Gaddafi was working with Mossad and CIA.

• 22:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:52Tucker Carlson?

  Right. So of course, and I'm not even attacking anybody at all. I'm just saying that is the actual truth of the world that I have seen personally. So.

• 23:01Speaker 02

  And, and I, I, I agree with your truth. And I think the, the more questionable part is why are we giving advanced technology to our enemies? And where this, this really gets strange is that back when I did work at Eco of Alliance, I did object to working with the Chinese. So the next phase of Predict funding is coming along, Predict 2.

• 23:22Tucker Carlson?

  Okay. Okay. So Predict is the program that you described earlier that supposedly monitors global wildlife populations to get a head start on preparing for a pandemic.

• 23:32Speaker 02

  Well, to predict and forecast it.

• 23:34Tucker Carlson?

  Predict and forecast.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  So maybe, maybe get a head start could be a more accurate framing or at least have an assessment of what's circulating in the area. And that, that's probably a fair characterization, but. Predict two, they're basically going to continue this boondoggle operation and expand the portfolio of research with China. And once I was promoted to Vice President, they put me onto the Predict program at my own request because it was sort of the sexy thing that Equal Health Alliance was doing. And I wanted to be a part of it because I get my name in more publications, more notoriety. And they wanted to make me a country coordinator. And I ended up being the one of the country coordinators for Sudan. And then also Jordan. And then Peter Daszak floated that I help him with China. And I, when that came up in the meeting, I said, I want nothing to do with this. I'm, you

• 24:19Speaker 02

  know, it's still my top secret clearance is in good standing. I object to us doing the work with China. And I actually said in the meeting, I'm like, are you the slightest bit concerned that the Chinese are gonna do something nefarious, like they're gonna steal our intellectual property? They're, you know, the Chinese have a pattern of lie, cheat and steal. So why, why do we want to do this work with China? And I said that in the executive meeting. And I was trying to protect the company, more so even just the national security risks side of it. I was trying to protect the company. And, you know, Peter gave a very political response that, you know, the, the work with China is very important. And this, this relationship that we have with the Chinese is very important. Really, I think the, the only thing that was important to Peter is the fact that this Chinese at least cut out of the bigger contract was a lot of money.

• 25:04Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 25:04Speaker 02

  And, you know, he had already been sort of flipped as a intel asset to collect the Chinese in the lab. But this, this wasn't going away. And this was all the, the window dressing to make it legitimate.

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• 27:23Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, again, I don't have any background information, so like you could tell me anything, but everything you're saying sounds right to me, just based on what I have seen. Can I just back up a tiny bit and ask some practical questions about what EcoHealth Lines was doing? So you said, before you got to the portion where they were acting as an intel asset, which sounds right, you said they were compiling, collecting a library of viruses from around the world. How does that work? How do you collect a virus in Sudan, for example, any country? How do you do that?

• 27:56Speaker 02

  Sure. So it's a, I guess my, my mind is very straightforward, but typically first you form a relationship with the diplomatic mission. So the embassy, the consul of the United States, they might refer you to either hospitals, professors, other academics, or company in country, or maybe you already have those relationships from past work that you've done. You then go on a trip to that country and you go and sort of do an assessment of their laboratories. You collect sort of information, try to gauge, do these people have the capability? Do you know what they're doing? Are they going to spend our, our money wisely? So it's, it's a business trip and it's very business focused and you're assessing their, their capabilities. Then, once you have a good feeling with their capabilities, you begin the, the contracting

• 28:39Speaker 02

  process with that foreign entity. And if you're doing everything by the book, you run these people through US government systems to make sure they're not terrorists or evil people.

• 28:48Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 28:48Speaker 02

  So we're not giving money to terrorists. That didn't happen at Equal Health Alliance.

• 28:51Tucker Carlson?

  It did not happen.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  It did not happen. I found out about that after the fact as well. But we try to figure out who these people are. And then if they're capable, oftentimes it's universities, either the ag school or at a foreign university, the veterinary school or human, human medical center. Then we, we formulate the contract, we send them the cash and then they would either go out and collect the samples, or we would travel or have our personnel travel to go collect the samples. So if we're talking about bats, it depends what species you're dealing with.

• 29:20Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 29:21Speaker 02

  Dealing with bats, you set nets or traps in a bat cave, for example. You catch the bat in the net and then you go out there in your personal protective equipment and you take fecal swabs, blood, saliva from the animal. And then you then package that so that the DNA will not be degraded and transported back to the laboratory. And then depending.

• 29:47Tucker Carlson?

  Where's the laboratory?

• 29:48Speaker 02

  Well, it depends on what country you're working in. So every country had, we had different agreements with, contractually about who owned the samples, who would store the samples. And the other thing that's happening in the background here is that technology is advancing.

• 30:03Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  Okay, so at one time in this type of research, you actually had to have the physical sample. Today, we're at a point, you no longer have to have the physical sample. You can actually send the DNA or RNA code digitally to somebody else and they can recreate it.

• 30:20Tucker Carlson?

  Huh.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  So this field has advanced tremendously over 10 years. And this is taking place, this advancement, while we're doing this work.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  Oftentimes, the samples then were physically transported back to the United States or mailed or shipped.

• 30:35Tucker Carlson?

  You can mail a deadly bat virus from a third world country to the US?

• 30:39Speaker 02

  Well, there's a manual from the CDC and USDA and HHS of how to transport samples. So yes, there are rules and process of how you can.

• 30:48Tucker Carlson?

  So almost all of that mail goes on commercial airliners?

• 30:55Speaker 02

  Typically, and there's really not a whole lot of risk from a collected sample. First of all, you don't even know at this point whether there's a new deadly virus present in the sample.

• 31:04Tucker Carlson?

  In the bat shit?

• 31:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, in the bat shit, the saliva.

• 31:07Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  You have no clue. Once it gets back to the United States, and then it goes to, at least at EcoAlliance, it would go to Ian Lipkin's laboratory at Columbia University, where he was a specialist in, he's a pretty well-known viral epidemiologist with really good lab chops. And another doctor who worked with us named Simon Anthony would work with him to isolate, well, first identify and isolate new viruses or novel viruses. So that's where it typically took place. Then, the mechanics of this or operations of this, that information or sample would be sent to another laboratory, like Ralph Barrett's laboratory, where he would continue the work.

• 31:45Tucker Carlson?

  Down in Chapel Hill.

• 31:46Speaker 02

  Chapel Hill and do the gain-of-function work.

• 31:48Tucker Carlson?

  It's just, can I just approach this from an autistic perspective? So what you're saying is there are like people around the world in bat caves in some faraway country, sending potentially novel and dangerous viruses to New York City?

• 32:05Tucker Carlson?

  Like all the time and people are not even aware of this.

• 32:07Speaker 02

  There's a huge, I won't say huge, but I mean, a non-trivial trivial amount of these types of samples being shipped around the world globally. And if they're properly contained and packaged, it's really that much, that not that much of a risk. And actually, Dr. Ralph Barrett developed some of these methods of how to send what's called a chimeric virus on a sheet of paper envelope, which is low risk. The bigger risk becomes when you start to clone or replicate that agent at scale. You know, human medicine, public health epidemiology, transmission risk, now you look at this, you have to have a substantial quantity of a virus, which is, you know, a substance mixed in the air or be exposed to it to become

• 32:49Speaker 02

  infected with it. Cause you have an immune system that works. Okay. And sometimes you get exposed to these things. You don't even know it because your immune system fights it off. Right? So the, I think sometimes the risk is overblown and the fear around transporting samples. I think most of the time that's actually pretty low risk. There's been a series of transporting accidents which occurred from 2008 to 2012 or 14, I want to say, which actually led to the ban or partial ban on gain of function research.

• 33:19Tucker Carlson?

  What kind of accidents?

• 33:20Speaker 02

  Uh, there's one of the high profile ones was that, um, I think it was bacillus anthracis was being shipped shipped from one of our US government BSL four laboratories under CDC control to another laboratory and it went missing and they found it sitting in the corner.

• 33:38Tucker Carlson?

  Some porch pirate stole it?

• 33:40Speaker 02

  No, it wasn't a porch pirate, but they found it someplace and it wasn't properly secured or in completely off the.

• 33:45Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. I mean, we live in a world with like Chernobyl and misdiagnoses. And I mean, I believe in, I think there are a lot of, you know, rigorous, responsible scientists, but you know, people make mistakes. I mean, over and over time and with scale, like mistakes will happen, right?

• 34:00Speaker 02

  Well, and we actually dealt with this type of, um, low probability, high consequence threat risk analysis all the time at, at San Diego National Laboratories. And the, the big issue is what you, you just brought up, the human in the loop. Usually the, the engineered systems, um, you can engineer those precisely to account for some whatever probability or consequence or risk, but it's always the human making a decision or behavior, action involved in the system that makes a mistake, which causes some kind of catastrophic failure.

• 34:27Tucker Carlson?

  Well, yeah. I mean, yeah. So, okay, I just was just interested. So then you say that the EcoTh Alliance was compiling a library of these viruses? They'd be stored in one place?

• 34:41Speaker 02

  Well, yes, they had digital, a digital library at EcoTh Alliance. And then there's other systems that the, the US, or I should say, not only the United States, but the global virologist community maintain of genetic information on viruses.

• 34:58Tucker Carlson?

  But the actual viruses, the living organisms, were they stored anywhere?

• 35:03Speaker 02

  Typically, we were buying negative ADC centigrade freezers as fast as we could, or as many as we could afford and storing those at Columbia University and other laboratories, where these things go in the freezer and they set. And the one nice thing is if the freezer does fail, it usually destroys all the sample in the inside because they do have to be maintained cold.

• 35:21Tucker Carlson?

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• 36:03Tucker Carlson?

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• 36:21Speaker 00

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• 37:14Tucker Carlson?

  What's the security like at a lab like that?

• 37:18Speaker 02

  I, in my opinion, I tend to think that it's laughable.

• 37:22Tucker Carlson?

  Laughable?

• 37:23Speaker 02

  And I've actually, laughable at most, most university laboratories. If you were to do a red team or penetration test and me coming on the national security, me a biosecurity, bio safety expert, you could get into most university laboratories. They would add, I heard arguments from other scientists who worked in these laboratories. Well, you know, we have good physical security. We have card scanners. We have this.

• 37:44Tucker Carlson?

  Good physical. I'd love to know what that actually, what those guys actually look like.

• 37:47Speaker 02

  Who, the, the scientists?

• 37:48Tucker Carlson?

  Good physical security.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  Oh, I mean, if you are a motivated attacker and you're well trained, you can get into one of these laboratories. It would, it would not be overly difficult. Now, has this improved and has this changed or are all the laboratories the same? I mean, I think many of the BSL three or four, which are the higher level or highest level laboratories in the United States now have pretty good or strong physical security. But when you look at what's actually happened in terms of accidents and lab leaks throughout history and recent history, I mean, speaking of this, you know, Ralph Barrett and his laboratory, he's had a series of leaks at his laboratory over years, you know, where people, their employees have gotten sick.

• 38:32Speaker 02

  And typically it's one of the people working in the laboratory is accidentally exposing because it's a virus that you can't see. And the way that disease incubates inside a person and how the bio event timeline is, we call it the amount of time it takes for a person to become sick, they leave the lab and then they become sick at home. And then that's when the disease becomes the transmission risk to the community. So that's just the very nature of how people behave, how people work in the laboratory, how human biology and physiology works. I mean, this is the nature of the beast. And it's very difficult to prevent those types of risks, I guess, to the community and the greater population.

• 39:11Tucker Carlson?

  No, this is why we have Lyme disease, which I got. So yes, no, I'm very aware of that. And I think everyone's aware of that. So with that in mind, gain of function is inherently dangerous, correct?

• 39:24Speaker 02

  I've always been against it. It actually divides the scientific community or used to pre-COVID. I think there's probably more, more scientists and experts against gain of function. It seems like certainly the general population is against it. Not all gain of function technology is bad. For example, insulin is made from a form of gain of function. And there are many diabetic people and they require insulin. Now, if we're talking about gain of function, research on pathogens which have pandemic potential, it's a no brainer. It's a stupid idea. And this is why it splits the scientific community. So one camp says, there's no use to this. I don't understand why we're doing it in the first place. Therefore,

• 40:05Speaker 02

  we shouldn't do it. The other camp argues, well, if we can predict how these viruses will mutate, then we can develop countermeasures, vaccines, or drugs to counter the threat before it emerges. And that opinion, and I've always held this belief, that the people who have that opinion are wrong. And the reason why they're wrong is that you have to be like God, and you have to know and be able to predict how something will genetically evolve over time. And if you look back through human history, it's always humans trying to correct nature, which have failed. The introduction of the brown snake in Guam. I mean, there's all these things where they've, that was a hitchhiker scenario, but where they tried to introduce some kind of predator to eliminate some kind of bad pest. You

• 40:49Speaker 02

  see this repeatedly throughout history that we can correct a complex system, which is nature.

• 40:54Tucker Carlson?

  That's what geoengineering is. And that's why it's like destroying our forests because they're spraying. You know, particulate matter into the air to counteract global warming and they they're not God, so they're not doing it right. And it's

• 41:07Speaker 02

  Well, that's interesting that you bring that up. So I used to work with the geoengineers and I wonder how much scale it's actually occurring. So and you know, people talk about contrails and you know, that's that being geoengineering. It's not. And most of these these stations are ground based, but it's very expensive. From a scientific and engineering perspective, you were going to to launch a large scale geoengineering project that was earth based. It takes a lot of material and that caught the material costs a lot of money. So I don't think it's happening at a larger scale that people believe. The more effective geoengineering technology exists are actually satellite deployed systems

• 41:49Speaker 02

  which act as solar shades. And I don't think any of that exists, but we are putting more things in space all the time. And a lot of this is either not classified or secret, but it's not exactly visible either. So, you know, who knows what people are shooting at.

• 42:02Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly. And there's a massive disinformation campaign against anyone who asks questions about it, which tells you it is real.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:08Tucker Carlson?

  Like QAPs. But anyway, without getting into all of that stuff. So you are asked like, hey, Dr. Huff, would you like to go to China? And you say no.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  I say no. And it's two reasons. One, to protect the company and also because I wanted to maintain my security clearance and good standing. And when it's not that you can't have foreign relationships, but it becomes more complicated for your reinvestigation in the future. If you have relationships with a country like China and I've, you know, from a national security perspective, I've always been against what the Chinese have been doing. And that's lie, lying, cheating and stealing from us. And we never get anything out of the relationship, it seems. It's been a very abusive, one way relationship from the Chinese. And I knew this going back to my military days. And I had actually been invited to do other collaborative work with the Chinese at other institutions, places

• 43:02Speaker 02

  I've worked, sort of tied to national security. And I always stayed away from it because I never saw any benefit to it. And well, if the government wants to, the US government wants to fund this or this entity wants to fund, that's fine. I can protest by just not being a part of it.

• 43:17Tucker Carlson?

  So you leave Eco Health Alliance after a few years, then COVID happens.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  Yes. And when it happens, everyone thinks I'm sort of the crazy one. And how this actually transpires is I was working at Jewel Labs, the e secret company, as a senior director of population health, living in the Bay Area. And because of what I did for a living and my expertise, you know, I catch wind of this virus spreading around the planet. It was very obvious that people in on the West Coast were becoming sick in, I want to say, late November, December 2019. You know, another really weird thing happens. So I'm making more money than I've ever made in my life at this company. And I was very grateful for that. I was able to pay off all my debt. But I received a phone call from a woman by the name of Dr. Amy Jenkins,

• 44:10Speaker 02

  who works at ARPA H. Now, I think she's the assistant director there, or deputy director. I can't remember what her title is. But I know Amy from years back. I actually met her while I was a PhD student at the University of Minnesota at a DH, Department of Homeland Security Center of Excellence. She had shown up to a few meetings of ours. She was working with the Department of Defense at that time and the intelligence services. And she's a great, you know, scientist and very friendly relationship with her. And she contacts me and she informs me that she's now working with DARPA and offers me a position as a program manager in the biological programs directorate.

• 44:53Speaker 02

  And, you know, I thought it was sort of odd that she had contacted me on my brand new San Francisco area phone cellphone. So I had a new phone number because I relocated and I wanted San Francisco area code. I didn't think too much of it. And I couldn't figure out though, why she wanted me to come be the director of this biological program. I'd been trying to get away from national security, intelligence type work for several years. And I kept on getting dragged back into it, it seemed. And I said, you know, thanks, Amy. I'm not really interested in this right now. I'm making a lot of money. This pays far more than what DARPA can pay me. I want to keep what I'm doing. And she's like, well, you know, go home and speak with your wife Emily. If you change your

• 45:36Speaker 02

  mind, we'd like to both bring you on. We'll find a home for Emily too, because she's a scientist. And that's very, you know, common in the scientific community, the two body problem. And go, go home, talk, speak with Emily, but, you know, give me a call back tomorrow and let me know what you think. Said, okay, Amy, I'll do that. So went home and had a conversation with my wife. Hey, do you want to move back to the Beltway or move to DC to have, you know, fed jobs and go work in that environment? And my wife had previously worked at USDA and she didn't want to go back to it. And like, call up Amy and say, you know, thank you, you know, for, for contacting me. At one point, this was in my career, this was actually my dream job to be running a, have a blank check from the Department of Defense to go develop all the coolest biotechnologies in the world. I mean, seriously, I had dreamed of that job at one point in my life. I didn't

• 46:20Speaker 02

  want it. Yeah. And so I told her, no. And she's like, well, you know, if you change your mind in the next few weeks, we'd really like to have you. You call me anytime.

• 46:32Speaker 02

  And that was it. Well, okay, that, that phone call took place.

• 46:38Speaker 02

  Late September, early October, 2019. Fast forward today with what we know is that DARPA had held a, a contest, or I want to say not so much a contest, but put out a RFP, a Request for Proposals, related to something called preempt, which was preventing emerging infectious disease threats. And one of the proposals was something called defuse from my former employer called Eco Health Alliance, which was basically the recipe for SARS-CoV-2, which was done in partnership with the Wuhan Institute of Virology. So, you know, I'm sort of hopping around here,

• 47:22Speaker 02

  but the reason why this is important is now I believe that DARPA was actually trying to recruit me back into the program. So I wouldn't have done any of the things that I've done over the last four years, essentially.

• 47:35Speaker 02

  And

• 47:36Tucker Carlson?

  Which is tell the truth in public.

• 47:38Speaker 02

  Tell the truth in public about what the origin of SARS-CoV-2 is. But going back on your timeline here, so I had limited information back then, and I knew a pandemic was coming. So I told my wife, we need to get the heck out of the Bay Area as fast as possible. This could go off the rails. I actually believed the information I was seeing, which I think was a psyop potentially targeted at me, that this disease would be much more severe than it was. I'm not saying that it wasn't a severe disease. I mean, it wasn't as bad as they're making it seem.

• 48:08Tucker Carlson?

  Meaning I believed it too. Oh, absolutely.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  Well, they portrayed it though, that something in epidemiology.

• 48:13Tucker Carlson?

  You mean in like January, February of 2020?

• 48:16Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 48:16Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 48:17Speaker 02

  So they're painting a portrayal and scientifically in epidemiology, we have something called the case fatality rate. So of how many people get sick, how many die, like this thing is going to kill everyone, like 80, 90% of the population could die from this disease. That's how they were portraying this.

• 48:32Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 48:32Speaker 02

  It turns out that that number was much lower and somewhere in the, you know, in the percentage category, not the 70, 80 or 90%. So I went real quick from thinking that this was going to be the thing that could, you know, cripple society to being, I'm not wearing a mask in public.

• 48:51Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 48:51Speaker 02

  But my behavior and action in early 2020, the first weeks, I started looking for a place in a remote area. So I'm considering Alaska, Maine, Northern Maine, Western Wyoming, or the UP of Michigan.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  My search criteria based on what I knew as an expert, you want to have access to an airport, transportation, high-speed internet, an hour drive from a major city center that's not too populated. Cause if it's going to end the planet, it's going to kill everyone. You want distance from other people to break transmission cycles, at least you can isolate yourself. So I bought a year's supply worth of MREs, I start stockpiling other things, you know, some ammunition, make a plan. And my wife and I land in the UP of Michigan. Everyone, you know, sort of thought I was crazy for doing this. And next thing you know, everybody wants to come visit me during the lockdowns. They said, they said, you were right about everything. And, you know,

• 49:46Tucker Carlson?

  I lived this too. Yes.

• 49:48Speaker 02

  And in the back of my mind though, I'm thinking about constantly that.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  And I know that Eco Health Alliance had been engaged in this gain of function work at Eco Health, or excuse me, at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. And I'm like, a bat coronavirus emerging in Wuhan? And you know, I'm watching this, these, watching the news and the TV at, you know, through 2020. And they're like, oh, it was a, you know, a pangolin, or it was the wet market. And I'm arguing on social media that that's not possible, that doesn't make sense from an emerging infectious disease standpoint, because a wet market, and the specific wet market in China, is a seafood market.

• 50:28Tucker Carlson?

  That's why it's called a wet market.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  Yes, but, you know, Western Americans are-

• 50:31Tucker Carlson?

  It's not for mammals, it's for creatures from the sea.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  People in the United States have a very myopic view of, you know, the world typically.

• 50:39Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I know.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  I'm sitting here arguing, I'm like, this is a fish market. And in fact, I'm looking at the pictures of it, and my assessment is like, this is the kind of place I'd go buy groceries, in one of the New York City, a very nice, very nice place. So I'm like, none of this is adding up. And, you know, you're watching the story evolve, and next thing you know, my former boss, Dr. Peter Daszak, has put on the, the committee that's sent over by the World Health Organization to go investigate the origin of the disease. And this is getting weirder and weirder and weirder. And I know all the players involved. I mean, I had met and worked with, not Dr. Anthony Fauci himself, but his deputy, Dr. Morin's, I had been out to dinner with him. I mean, I knew all the players in this big thing.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  I mean, I had been groomed since I was a PhD student to be a Dr. Anthony Fauci replacement or that type of person. So, I mean, I knew all the people in, in, in the system and, and working on these things. And the program managers, the officers, the different branches of the government. I'm watching this all play out, and I just can't believe it. And it's the kind of thing where I'm yelling at my computer screen in private, like, they put, you know, they put fucking Dr. Daszak in charge of, like, investigating the origin. He's probably the one that caused it. And little did I know that this was all part of the psychological operation and cover-up. And I just started becoming more callous, entrenched about really, really going on.

• 51:57Tucker Carlson?

  So how, can you explain that a little bit? What does that mean?

• 52:01Speaker 02

  Well-

• 52:01Tucker Carlson?

  Why would putting the guy who had a hand in the creation of the virus in charge of investigating the origin of the virus be part of a psy-op?

• 52:10Speaker 02

  To give the perception that it's an independent person that's well trusted within the wildlife community and the scientific community that we know what you're doing, you can trust what we're saying. Cause if you look at how the psychological operation was waged, and I'm not just saying the US government, but multiple entities, the pharmaceutical industry, the big companies that back all these different things, special interests, just generally. You take the guy who's responsible, you put him in charge of the investigation, you certainly, you know that he's not going to tie it back to himself, but he's already been branding himself for years and decades as being a person that cares, you know, a crunchy NGO person. And he has the relationships in wealthy communities on the west coast and

• 52:53Speaker 02

  east coast, the elite, to convince them that this is, you know, a naturally emerging disease from the wet market. So, you know, he's already the point man, he's already sold everyone all this bullshit related to, we're going to go and forecast pandemics. And really, he's the guy who caused one. It's really, yeah. Thank you for saying, I just wanted you to explain that a little more fully. I've again, lived this, seen it. And it is effective because it's so shocking that someone would do that. It's so brazen, the chutzpah required to do something like that. You take not just like some random guy, but the guy who's responsible and you start telling everyone, he's the savior. Wow, man.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  That, the human brain, a normal person is bewildered by that, is thrown off balance by that. Well, at least in my life, and we were discussing this a little bit at breakfast, the more of you see of this trickery, the more that you're exposed. And then they actually talk about this in the psychological research, oftentimes the more aware you become of a phenomenon, the more you see it. And then once you start seeing it, you can't stop seeing it. And that's how they say, you know, people become conspiracy theorists because they see, see the conspiracy theorists. Well, that's why very few young people, I think this is changing fast, but my whole life, like young people always bought the story. Then you meet guys in their seventies, particularly people who'd worked for the government. And I've known a lot of those who would get more conspiracy minded as they aged. Have you ever noticed this? Oh, absolutely.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. And that's just- Why is that? Well, experience. Exactly. And living life. And I do that now. I'm 43 and you see someone in their twenties or nineteen, they have a very idealistic view of the world. And I used to be one of those people. Oh, yeah. Oh, tell me about it.

• 54:37Tucker Carlson?

  I made it to my late 30s with that, you know, but mid 30s. But anyway, um, wow, that's wild. So you're sitting up at the UP with your scientist wife, watching this stuff on CNN, going, you must be like going bonkers watching this.

• 54:51Speaker 02

  Well, internally, and I was working on a startup company and I was distracted by by other things. And, you know, because I was in the UP, this was only via social media or the news. So I'm pretty detached from it. What happens is in late 2021, the operation turns focused towards me because now I'm being, I think, viewed as a threat based on some of the things I had put on LinkedIn at the time and other social media posts that I could, I needed to be contained in some way.

• 55:25Tucker Carlson?

  And what sort of things were you saying?

• 55:27Speaker 02

  I, so it was really Dr. Malone and I and a few other people who were trying to remain anonymous. I know who they are. We're just telling the truth. So first of all, around, around the disease that this was not a naturally emerging pathogen. And I could tell that it was not based on a number of facts, basically how this disease was spreading, the type of agent it was, the coincidence that we had been funding this exact type of work. And I had the original documents at this laboratory. It was just that their story and how the people involved were

• 56:03Speaker 02

  saying things about the disease, just which weren't true. And how specifically how this type of disease would emerge. I mean, that's what my PhD is in. I mean, I've worked in this field. And I knew, I knew that these people knew that they were lying, because these people were qualified experts as well. So why are these people lying about how this disease would emerge?

• 56:25Tucker Carlson?

  Great question.

• 56:26Speaker 02

  And so they, you, it, it drives more questions, right? Every time you have something that's weird, it doesn't fit the pattern or isn't the thing that it's supposed to be, you ask more questions.

• 56:36Speaker 02

  And as this, you know, the timeline of COVID is, uh, is, is happening or occurring, you know, so we're going through the lockdowns. They're trying to get the, the vaccine operation warp speed. They're trying to do all these things. That's all distracting everyone from the origin question and the people involved in the origin discussions and the psychological operation of it was that, in my opinion, is that they were actually trying to get society bogged down in the technical details of very sophisticated scientific jargon, which very few people were qualified to understand or argue or debate, and then label it as those people were the only people who are qualified experts to be able to debate.

• 57:16Speaker 02

  So therefore there was no debate allowed. And I wasn't buying, I wasn't, I wasn't fucking having it. I was, it's driving me nuts.

• 57:24Tucker Carlson?

  Because you were a qualified expert, so you didn't have to buy it.

• 57:27Speaker 02

  Well, and I'm highly competitive and those so-called qualified experts, I thought I was better than them.

• 57:31Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 57:31Speaker 02

  And I look at where we're sitting today. Um, I'm sitting here in this chair, speaking with you, telling you the truth. And I think my argument, the psychological operation, I waged back against, um, the population via social media and other channels and how I did has been completely successful. I was, I mean, from day one, I had been saying that this was a laboratory leak. And you look at most of the population today, everyone, I think globally believes that it came out of the laboratory. I think people are tied to it, you know, are still trying to make the pangolin or natural emergent.

• 58:00Tucker Carlson?

  Funny, you go how I went on the Eco Health, I think Eco Health Alliance is gone or sort of gone now.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  It's defunct, yeah.

• 58:06Tucker Carlson?

  Defunct, yeah. But on their website, which still exists, I looked at it last night, um, they have an attack on you, of course, lacking all specifics, you're familiar with all this. But on it, they say, you know, Dr. Huff makes the totally unsubstantiated claim that this, uh, virus escaped from a lab when we know in the scientific consensus states that it emerged naturally out of an animal population.

• 58:30Speaker 02

  Well, the.

• 58:32Tucker Carlson?

  When they wrote that, they knew that wasn't true.

• 58:33Speaker 02

  Oh, absolutely. And they put out other weird smear tactics and they had worked with the, the media to smear me, the, the best, my favorite smear. So the, the day that my, my publication came out, there was a story, I think that ran in the, the New York Post, and it claimed that, um, I was wrong, that I had never worked in the Wuhan lab. Well, that was attribution error. I never, I never had claimed that I worked.

• 59:00Tucker Carlson?

  No, in fact, you just explained that you didn't want to work in China.

• 59:02Speaker 02

  Correct. But they, they, that's how they were trying to scope the argument that I was a liar.

• 59:06Tucker Carlson?

  The New York Post. That would not surprise me. And I just want to say for the record, the New York Post is one of the most dishonest publications in the world and is very often used by the intel agencies and other bad actors to lie to the public. It's also hilarious. It's a great newspaper in certain ways. And so it's the, and same with Daily Mail, exactly the same. And they sort of lull you into believing them because they've got a sense of humor and they cover great stories and they're sort of vaguely right wing. But actually, it's a vector for, for disinformation and for lying on behalf of the intel agencies. That's just what it is.

• 59:41Speaker 02

  That's most mainstream media, I think.

• 59:43Tucker Carlson?

  It is, it is. But I think that New York Post and Daily Mail are, Wall Street Journal, also Fox News for sure. But they're more sinister because people believe them. Because hey, it's Fox News. It's the Daily, it's the Daily Mail. It's the New York Post. Especially the New York Post. Like, everyone, headless body and topless bar, man. It's the coolest paper in the world. They wouldn't do that. Oh, they do it constantly.

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  I agree. I mean, what do you do about it when you're the little man?

• 1:00:10Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know. You tell the truth about it. That's all you can do. But, um, and they'll, I mean, they'll, all those companies are failing and they'll all be gone soon. And I won't lament their passing. But anyway, so tell me what they did to contain control and punish you once you started telling the truth.

• 1:00:26Speaker 02

  So in late, well, the timeline's starting to get a little foggy. It's, you know, this, this has been ongoing saga. I think it was in late 2021 or mid to late 2021, I was contacted by some journalists. So journalists are trying to contact me and ask me questions because they figure they're probably wondering, who's this tough guy? Does he know what he's talking about? They're probably trying to frame me as a crazy. Miranda Devine contacts me, a pretty prominent journalist, and asks me on the telephone where she should look for more records related to the scan and function research. And because I had worked in this, this field for a year and knew all the players, I'm like, I don't know. You know, my gut tells me I'd go look at DARPA. And I believe that conversation was being listened into. I think I believe they're already

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  watching me, obviously, going back into October 2019. That's when it triggered something within the intel community where I had found out now secondhand that there was a false allegation that someone had leaked classified information to me. Nobody's ever leaked classified information to me because one, they don't typically target the person that was leaked to. They target the leaker. Okay. And I would be arrested and be in jail if that were true. And when I told that to Miranda Devine, this is based on my expert opinion. I knew the people who were funding the work preempt all these different things. I knew the players. So you

• 1:01:50Speaker 02

  go look at the funding sources to identify proposals and things that had been submitted. And I don't know if this is related or not, but a week or two after I had that conversation, Major Murphy from the US Marine Corps puts out a whistleblower disclosure that there's this thing called the diffuse proposal, which is basically the recipe of how to make SARS-CoV-2. And it was done in partnership with the Chinese and a number of scientists in the US. And the primary sponsor, the primary company engaging this work was Eco Health Alliance. So every name on the diffuse proposal, I know those people or I know of them and what

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  work they were doing. And everyone discredited this diffuse proposal because this is not a real proposal. This looks like a joke. It's two pages. It looks very haphazard. And I started making the argument to people, no, this is very real. DARPA does business differently than other government agencies. They use this thing called Myers catechism. You have to answer a series of questions, proposals. They only want a page or two. They don't want a big NIH proposal, which is very technical, could be full length of 100, 200 pages of material. They only typically want a one or two page proposal. And I tell people like this is how DARPA does business, but since nobody in the real world knows how the business works in these areas.

• 1:03:12Tucker Carlson?

  Not a lot of people you run into. At Starbucks have done business with DARPA.

• 1:03:15Speaker 02

  Exactly. And that's how they then start the psychological operation on the diffuse proposal.

• 1:03:21Tucker Carlson?

  I ask you to pause. For those who aren't familiar, we just tell viewers what DARPA is.

• 1:03:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. So DARPA is the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. It used to be ARPA before they added the D before. It's an advanced research projects agency. It it's actually made most of the coolest technology that we have or one of the companies or entities that's federally funded that has the internet. So everything on the internet was developed by ARPA, then ARPA net. And if you are a tech nerd like me and you start digging down the DNS queries of how you search for information, you dig down, you start pulling up the tables of information. Eventually you get to something that says ARPA net in every communication that we do. So they make the most sophisticated sophisticated stuff in the world.

• 1:04:03Tucker Carlson?

  So it's a Pentagon funded research lab, basically.

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  Yes. Well, not necessarily just a research lab. It I'd call it more of it. It covers a program area or series of program areas where some of the research is done by private contractors, FFRDCs, basically anybody who can who can do the work. And they fund high risk, high, high value, scientific R and D on short timelines. So you don't receive 10, 10 years of funding. The Department of Defense rightfully says, what capability will this give us within a year or two?

• 1:04:36Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:36Speaker 02

  Three years. They have a short, short horizon. It's no nonsense and they want results. And they they achieve them.

• 1:04:45Tucker Carlson?

  Interesting. That's a great description from someone who's worked with them. So anyway, you have this conversation with Miranda Devine and you now believe that conversation was monitored. And what happens next?

• 1:04:59Speaker 02

  Well, then I start because my, my profile is increasing and I'm starting to be actually followed by people out in the UP when I like go to the grocery store. Very, very strange, right?

• 1:05:11Tucker Carlson?

  UP is the Upper Peninsula of Michigan? It's not actually near the state of Michigan, really. It's very, it's a geographic anomaly, but it is very lightly populated and extremely rural. It's one of the most rural places east of the Mississippi, if this is a fair description.

• 1:05:27Speaker 02

  Yes, it's actually the most rural place in the lower 48 by

• 1:05:31Tucker Carlson?

  Forty eight.

• 1:05:32Speaker 02

  Yes, by population density.

• 1:05:35Tucker Carlson?

  So when you're getting followed in the UP, you know it.

• 1:05:37Speaker 02

  Oh, absolutely. I mean, so the house, the pandemic, you know, prepper house that we that we purchased, it's 180 acres. It's off, completely off grid. Our driveway is a mile long and it's basically like a moat. There's a natural dense swamp on on all four sides because the driveway is an old railroad grade. So yeah, so it's very isolated. I joke, I could throw a hand grenade off my step and nobody would notice. And because there are mines in the air, there's blasting and stuff going on, nobody would care. So that's, that's where I live. So when you go to the gas station or you go into town, you know, 40, 40 minute drive and you have someone follow you, we have a couple of vehicles while you, it's very strange. And I get on,

• 1:06:19Speaker 02

  it was Twitter then before X and my, my profile's becoming elevated. So one of the first people to get in contact me was Brett, Brett Weinstein, Dr. Brett Weinstein, another Yan Yaklik, they start reaching out to me. So the people who were outspoken and skeptics around all things start contacting me and I have a four hour conversation with Brett Weinstein and I walk him through the whole, whole thing, even through the vaccine technology and I think it'll cause cancer. And look today where we are, it's these mRNA vaccines are causing cancer. So anyways, I have this great conversation and all of a sudden, all the, I feel that I can sense the pressure, you know, being applied and mounting, you know, from being followed, you know, as weird as that is. And because I'm a former top secret clearance holder,

• 1:07:04Speaker 02

  I decided to go report this to the FBI. So I go to my local FBI field office and I say, you know, I'm Dr. Andrew Huff, I'm a former top secret clearance holder that worked in this environment. I'm being tailed because you're supposed to. You sign documents saying that, you know, if you report any, if you have any strange behavior the rest of your life of being tailed or, you know, hacking surveillance, report it to the FBI. So I did. My wife and I go in there. They seem like they're taking it very seriously. And I then actually hire a private investigator to then cross check what the FBI is doing. And there's a vehicle that's following me and I report it to the FBI. The FBI tells me it's nothing.

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  The private eye tells me that vehicle is registered to the Secretary of State in Michigan. And that's how they have undercover vehicles.

• 1:07:54Tucker Carlson?

  What?

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  Yes. So.

• 1:07:57Tucker Carlson?

  That's how the FBI is undercover vehicles?

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  That or any other undercover entity. So some federal entity.

• 1:08:02Tucker Carlson?

  Government agency.

• 1:08:03Speaker 02

  Government agency could be the state police, the sheriff's department. I now know for a fact that it was the state police, my sheriff's department in Marquette County, and the FBI all working together in hindsight and probably also with the Department of Defense and the CIA, which is more difficult to prove, but you can sort of see ties and tendrils into that.

• 1:08:25Speaker 02

  So that aside, so I'm being followed. They're listening to my communications. All of this is sort of easy to detect. If you're a person who worked in intelligence and defense, you know how they operate. And so I just started collecting evidence of all the terrible crap. And my devices were getting hacked weekly. I mean, I'd have to wipe the operating systems, reinstall, and it's this cat and mouse game as technology is evolving. And I'm an engineer, so I just start increasing my security all the time. And the sad reality is with consumer grade electronics that you buy from, you know, Amazon or wherever you get them these days, it's difficult to defend against that advanced persistent threat.

• 1:09:07Speaker 02

  So you're basically, I spent a lot of time doing network engineering and restoring programs and software because once I get to the point where I'm writing my book, the hacks intensify. And it's definitely coming from the government, probably the pharmaceutical industry or other, you know, entities and organizations. And I tried to investigate myself, the sources of those hacks. And I actually know I follow the IP addresses of their VPN that they backdoored in your system, you can find out who the attacker is. So I, I do this and I, I sit on it and it's gotten to the point where I'm ready to file a large federal lawsuit against the federal government, Cash Patel, who's supposedly my ally for $50 million, because I've identified the FBI agents and everyone involved all the way to the top.

• 1:09:49Speaker 02

  I basically ran a counterintelligence operation back against the US government with my training and collected the evidence to prove it. I even have fingerprints that I obtained in my house of people who broke into my house. They tased my dog.

• 1:10:02Tucker Carlson?

  What?

• 1:10:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, they tased my dog during one of the break-ins. What else did they do?

• 1:10:06Tucker Carlson?

  Actually?

• 1:10:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:07Tucker Carlson?

  How do you know that?

• 1:10:08Speaker 02

  I mean, it leaves a big mark and a burn on the, the dog's neck. It was hiding, cowering in the corner. They changed the, one of my bird dogs. And so this dog was actually one of the more-

• 1:10:17Tucker Carlson?

  German shorter pointer?

• 1:10:18Speaker 02

  Yes, a large female, about 70 pounds, a large for that breed.

• 1:10:22Tucker Carlson?

  They attacked your dog?

• 1:10:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:24Tucker Carlson?

  That's when-

• 1:10:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, they, they tased the dog and it changed her behavior. She became more timid. She actually used to be sort of aggressive for a GSP. And so anyways, yeah, they, they tased my dog. They tampered with my vehicles on numerous occasions. And this just didn't happen in the UP. This would happen when I go other places. So if I travel for work, say I'd go to, you know, Wisconsin, Great Bay, California, they'd tamper with my vehicles there and, and do, you know, really silly stuff, like psychologically. So they might just like buckle your seatbelt before you, so you leave the car and then you come back to your car and everything's all skewed and they mess with stuff in it. So I mean, it was more of a psychological operation, not like trying to, to kill me, you know, but they're, they were trying to apply all the pressure that they could to, to make my life

• 1:11:09Speaker 02

  miserable. I have times, periods where my credit cards might not work. You show up to a gas station, try to run at the pump, it won't be at work. So is that the bank screwing with me? The payment system? I had the controls on my vehicle on, I don't want to say what type of car I have on your show, but a newer vehicle that has like automated driving, like assisted driving capabilities, that had been taken over at low speed where I couldn't, couldn't control it. And now I'm sort of in, of the mindset, I'm like, oh geez, should we have self-driving cars? And they would actually, it always-

• 1:11:43Tucker Carlson?

  Let me answer that question. No?

• 1:11:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:45Tucker Carlson?

  It's the end of human autonomy, right?

• 1:11:47Speaker 02

  And so.

• 1:11:48Tucker Carlson?

  We should have 1987 Chevrolet Silverados with the five-speed manual transmission.

• 1:11:52Speaker 02

  You'll have to take me for a ride later.

• 1:11:53Tucker Carlson?

  That's what I drive. Okay, sorry.

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  No, and I've thought about that. And so it's always this battle whether or not we should have these technologies. And here's the thing I wanted to point out. They didn't do these things when I was driving at high speed. It happened at the same place in my driveway systematically where they were doing it to mess with me. At a low speed there. And I actually brought one of the vehicles into the manufacturer to have it looked at. And they took a look at it. Their corporate mechanic came in.

• 1:12:21Speaker 02

  And corporate mechanics are special mechanics that look for,

• 1:12:27Speaker 02

  I guess, manufacturing errors in the production of the vehicle so that the corporation can correct the either software or physical problem with the vehicle. And they gave me free repairs based on what they found and they wouldn't tell me exactly what they found. So.

• 1:12:44Tucker Carlson?

  Well, this is all pretty distressing and to think that you're a patriotic American, serve your country, fought and was wounded in Iraq, you know, and for your government to be doing this to you because you're telling the truth

• 1:13:00Tucker Carlson?

  is really kind of like the end. I mean, that that could happen.

• 1:13:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I took the attitude of I can beat these guys and I'm better than they are. And I'm smarter than they are. So it just became a game to me. And I just went, played the game and I played the game and I outsmarted them every step of the way because their ultimate goal was to prevent me from this story getting out to the global audience. And I knew that's what their objective was and their other objective was to skew me as a crazy, right? So we're either going to paint this person as a crazy and we're going to prevent them so at least my word, my voice has no impact. And they failed on both accounts. Because the main thing is I had documented everything that was happening. The license plates, the people following me, the fingerprints in my house, they're not my fingerprints.

• 1:13:48Speaker 02

  And the best part is I brought those fingerprints to the Marquette County Sheriff's Department, brought them to the FBI. And I even had a referral from Sandia National Laboratory's counterintelligence eventually to the FBI, telling them to investigate this and they refused to run the prints.

• 1:14:08Tucker Carlson?

  Have they ever run the prints?

• 1:14:09Speaker 02

  No. And this is where it gets really interesting. So.

• 1:14:13Tucker Carlson?

  To this day?

• 1:14:14Speaker 02

  To this day. And I still have them.

• 1:14:15Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 1:14:17Speaker 02

  I mean, I guess it's probably someone from law enforcement. That's, that's what it's probably a sheriff's department employee.

• 1:14:25Tucker Carlson?

  Ah.

• 1:14:26Speaker 02

  It could be someone politically that they used in the operation. I mean, if you look at how, when, when they want to target someone or individual, and I'm not the first US government scientist to go through this, it's well documented that the person they blamed for the bacillus anthracis attacks after nine 11. So you remember the anthrax mailings?

• 1:14:46Tucker Carlson?

  Do I remember? Yeah.

• 1:14:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. So they pinned that to a guy by the name of Dr. Bruce Ivins.

• 1:14:50Tucker Carlson?

  Well, first it was Dr. Stephen Hadfield.

• 1:14:52Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:14:53Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:53Speaker 02

  And then it was Dr. Bruce Ivins. And they ran a operation on him, which was like COINTELPRO to, to make him crack. And eventually he kills himself. He can't, he can't handle the pressure. Well, they ran the same type of operation on me. I didn't crack.

• 1:15:10Tucker Carlson?

  I, I hate to go far afield because this is an amazing story, but you brought it up. So I'm going to have to ask you, give me the Cliff's note, Cliff Notes version of what those anthrax attacks actually were, which for people who are not around then, killed a number of people, media employees, anthrax packed envelopes were sent to, you know, to the newsrooms of a bunch of media organizations. I actually got one at my house. So it was, it was a big deal. This was right after that.

• 1:15:40Speaker 02

  Yes. So someone, someone who had access to USAMR laboratory.

• 1:15:44Tucker Carlson?

  Which laboratory?

• 1:15:45Speaker 02

  USAMR. I forget what the acronym stands for. It's the bioweapons laboratory or bio defense laboratory.

• 1:15:51Tucker Carlson?

  In Maryland.

• 1:15:52Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:15:52Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:53Speaker 02

  And so Dr. Bruce Ivan worked in that laboratory. He worked on vaccine technology and the spores which are weaponized to be dispersed. And.

• 1:16:08Tucker Carlson?

  The anthrax spores.

• 1:16:09Speaker 02

  Correct. And what's unique about these spores is that when they're weaponized, they go through a process called tinning. And what the tinning does, it makes them so that they stay aerosolized. Because if you have bacillus anthracis, it's too big of a agent, it just, it falls to the ground, it sits. So to weaponize it, you want to make it so it stays dispersed and.

• 1:16:28Tucker Carlson?

  Light and fluffy.

• 1:16:29Speaker 02

  Exactly. And so Dr. Bruce Ivins was a specialist in in that. Okay, making these things stay aerosolized and then also developing the countermeasures to it. So if you're a real conspiracy theorist, you'd say that someone engaged in the false flagging of the anthrax attacks to promote the anthrax vaccine. Potentially, I mean, that's

• 1:16:53Tucker Carlson?

  Potentially.

• 1:16:53Speaker 02

  That's one theory that's out there. I I personally believe from analyzing all the different evidence that Dr. Bruce Ivins is not the person that did it. From my professional network, I know several person who worked direct, people that worked directly with him. He's very much a very soft, loving kind of person. I don't see this person all of a sudden taking the spores out of his laboratory and then mailing, mailing, mailing them to people. They, this could have been done to continue the bio defense program around bacillus a anthracis as one possible scenario. So anyways, I mean, we're sort of off track here, but.

• 1:17:29Tucker Carlson?

  So there is no, because no one was ever charged with it. And he, as I remember, or was he charged?

• 1:17:36Speaker 02

  I, I think they were in the process of charging.

• 1:17:38Tucker Carlson?

  Well, certainly no one was convicted of it.

• 1:17:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:17:40Tucker Carlson?

  Right, and he killed himself. Well, they say he killed himself. He's dead in any case, but has any other like sus meaningful suspect ever emerged that you're aware of?

• 1:17:51Speaker 02

  Well, I have my opinions of who was likely involved, and I don't want to defame those people, so.

• 1:17:58Tucker Carlson?

  No, no, and I hope you won't use names, but can you just give it? Can you characterize who these people were and what their motive might have been in your view?

• 1:18:06Speaker 02

  In my opinion, they're likely associated with the bio defense complex. And their motive could have been to create more fear hostility after nine eleven in the population. It could have been financial. Those are probably the two leading motives of as to why that happened. My, my expert opinion, and then actually, you know, in private afterward, they'll tell you, you know, who I think probably is involved, but.

• 1:18:35Tucker Carlson?

  But these.

• 1:18:35Speaker 02

  Me being an expert in bio defense, I mean, this is something of one of the first things I did deep dives on. Even in fact, in my PhD coursework, it was taught by, taught by Dr. Mike Osterholm, who and I, he and I do not see eye to eye on a lot of things. He taught us in this course, this was a case study around bio defense.

• 1:18:53Tucker Carlson?

  There's a, yeah, there are a lot of bio labs outside this country I've noticed run by the US government or.

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  Well, they're not really run by the US government. So there's this thing called the Cooperative Biological Engagement Program, CBEP, and there's a few other programs. And the idea is we engage in scientific diplomacy with foreign laboratories. So our enemies do not become allied with them. So for example, the Ukraine labs, I actually was involved in writing some of the proposals for those laboratories, and I can't say with who, I'm under NDA, but here's the, here's the issue. If we don't engage in those cooperative biological engagement programs with a laboratory like in Ukraine, there's a very real possibility that the Chinese will or the Russians will.

• 1:19:36Tucker Carlson?

  I get it. I get it.

• 1:19:37Speaker 02

  So it's better that we're working with them.

• 1:19:39Tucker Carlson?

  I understand. No, I don't. But that's not crazy. I don't think it's, or certainly understand how people talk themselves into that. And I don't, it's not prima facie insane or evil. What I find obviously insane and evil is the lying about it. And so, you know, the undersecretary of state said in a senate hearing a few years ago, and after the Ukraine war broke out on camera, under oath, this is Victoria Nuland, architect of the current disaster in Ukraine, that she was worried about the bio labs there. So she said that on camera. So, okay, all right, you said it, honey. And I played the tape and was immediately

• 1:20:20Tucker Carlson?

  attacked by everybody, all the other, you know, CNN and all the other intel community controlled news outlets as like a conspiracy wacko. And there are no, there are no bio labs in Ukraine. What are you talking about?

• 1:20:34Speaker 02

  Same.

• 1:20:35Tucker Carlson?

  What is that?

• 1:20:37Speaker 02

  I don't understand how the Biden administration handled the messaging and the communications around, so I don't know why Ms. Nuland actually said the things or said the things the way that she did.

• 1:20:48Tucker Carlson?

  She's stupid. That's, that's one of her deepest secrets. She's an idiot.

• 1:20:51Speaker 02

  It would have been so much easier just to come on and tell the truth. We have this thing called the Chemical Biological Engagement Program, and we had a relationship with these, these laboratories in Ukraine. And actually, this is published information by the Department of Defense and other, the State Department, other agencies involved. And you can go look at CBEP maps and see where we have these. This this information, or you can play the the game where you go look at awarded proposals, which are not classified. So there's ways to find this this information. It's not secret. And they're using private companies to and universities to have these relationships with these different laboratories. And that's that's what scientific diplomacy is about.

• 1:21:26Tucker Carlson?

  But why would you lie about it? And why would news organizations collaborate in those lies? Like, to me, as a non scientist, but a student of human nature, that's a tell that something's bad going on. Like, why would you lie about that?

• 1:21:40Speaker 02

  Well, I think the Biden administration was completely incompetent on all these areas. And I think it was looking at Ms. Newland specifically. I believe that she didn't know what she didn't know. It was a case of that.

• 1:21:50Tucker Carlson?

  That is one of the huge problems of being dumb.

• 1:21:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:55Tucker Carlson?

  Is you don't know what you don't know. Right?

• 1:21:57Speaker 02

  And so she probably couldn't articulate anything that would be the truth without putting herself in risks of risk of being perjuring herself.

• 1:22:05Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:22:06Speaker 02

  So I think she gave the answer to not perjure herself, not knowing what she didn't know.

• 1:22:11Tucker Carlson?

  Stupidity is often often the real explanation for a lot of things.

• 1:22:16Speaker 02

  Well, the truthful answer could have been, well, Senator so and so, I don't know. My office will look into that and will give you a written response within a week. And that's how they trained us.

• 1:22:27Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, of course. Well, that's what honest people do is just tell the truth. But I just thought it was interesting that the media cooperated with the cover up in that's and many, a million others, of course. But like, why? What is that?

• 1:22:40Speaker 02

  Well, that was all part of the psychological operation. Because remember, this this didn't happen in a vacuum. They probably didn't want to undermine the public perception of the government related to the COVID origin story. So more of these conspiracy theories that turn out to be true, it undermines the credibility of the main narrative that they're trying to set, which was COVID emerged from.

• 1:23:00Tucker Carlson?

  Can I ask like, an even bigger and dumber question, which is, why would the US government have an interest in lying about that? Why not? China is our rival on many levels, economic and military primarily. And we're often told that, you know, we're in a war against China, a fight with China, a race against China. Why would the same people telling us that go out of their way to cover up the fact that the virus came from a Chinese bioweapons lab?

• 1:23:27Speaker 02

  Well, the government's people, first of all, you know, we always refer to it as the government, but you work in Washington DC and in this, the space and any program area that a person could be affiliated with has people running it. Those people don't want to be held accountable.

• 1:23:41Tucker Carlson?

  No, that's right.

• 1:23:41Speaker 02

  And, and they, they're obviously are living in a state of fear of what could happen if there were, if they were held accountable. So they make decisions to protect themselves out of their self-interest and they happen to hold some power or leverage or have the relationships to execute on, on that operation plan.

• 1:24:02Tucker Carlson?

  Totally right. Yeah. I mean, clearly true. So you start telling the truth, they start tailing you, tased your dog, trying to drive you insane. All of that is very, very familiar to me. Um, you don't feel like they're going to want to kill you, but they want you to shut up or at least become a fringe figure that nobody pays attention to.

• 1:24:25Speaker 02

  Yes, absolutely. And here's just a quick story and maybe we'll cut this in differently, but one of the funny things that they did was that it had been a sort of really stressful summer of, of working on my book, writing it because of the hacks and I had deadlines and I'm not able to meet the deadlines because of the hacking, being tailed, all these different things. Well, my wife and I decided to go to a music festival in Chicago and it's a decent drive, you know, six, seven hours down to Chicago. And while we're staying at the hotel, someone is hovering a drone outside the window of our hotel room.

• 1:25:02Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:03Speaker 02

  And the funny thing is, you know,

• 1:25:06Tucker Carlson?

  I hope you flashed them.

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  Um, I walk around probably naked all the time because I'm, you know, a former army infantryman. I don't care if he sees me naked. So, and I live out in the middle of nowhere, so I'll just go outside naked sometimes. But anyways, we're, we're in Chicago and, um, you know, the thing is the, the FBI or these federal agents or maybe state agents operating illegally weren't very smart.

• 1:25:29Speaker 02

  So our room faced an alley in Chicago and there was a tall glass building next to us. So I look at the glass building across from us and I can see the people operating the drone in the room above us.

• 1:25:41Tucker Carlson?

  No way.

• 1:25:42Speaker 02

  Yes. So what I do, I actually put on my pants, go upstairs and I pound on the door and come out of this fucking room. I caught you. And I'm screaming this, the hotel room in Chicago and I'm excited, you know, because this is the first time where I've actually been able to, you know, confront these people and the room goes dead silent. So what do I do? I go over to the fire door, which is right next to this hotel room was up against the stairwell and we're on the third floor, they're on the fourth. And I make a quick decision to sort of trick these guys. So I open up the, this door, this heavy fire door and I allow it to slam and I make the, the noise with my feet that I'm going down

• 1:26:22Speaker 02

  the stairs. Actually, I went upstairs quietly and above the room to the fifth floor and I'm standing there listening to the floor and I hear cases closing, things snapping and you know, which way are they going to exit? They're obviously not going to go down the fire escape or at the end of the building. The only other way they go, they're going to go down the hallway to the next stairway or elevator. So I start running down the fifth floor ahead of these guys and I hear footsteps and cases and things. The, well, I heard the case closing, I hear the footsteps coming down the hallway and I get to the next stairway and I open up the door and they pop out right in front of me.

• 1:26:57Tucker Carlson?

  No way.

• 1:26:58Speaker 02

  But I'm up on the fifth floor and they're coming out on the fourth and I'm looking down at them and they go running down the stairs to, to the first floor and I'm laughing. So I go over to the elevator, I go down the elevator casually. I come on the, the lobby like there's nothing wrong. And the two guys are sitting in chairs and I walk over to them and say, hey, guys, did you see two guys come running down the stairs? And they have like wristbands on from drinking at, at the music festival or bars, wherever they were, following us around all day. And they said, no, we haven't seen anyone in there. You know, the looks are like they're sweating. Then I go over to them, I start laughing, I go over to the desk of the lobby and say, hey, what's your name? Can I get your phone

• 1:27:41Speaker 02

  number? I'm gonna have my attorneys call you. We're gonna get a copy of the surveillance footage of, of these guys.

• 1:27:47Speaker 02

  And I'm like, I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna buy you dinner next year. And she said, okay. She gave me my information. She's like, why? I'm like, oh, it's not a big deal. So anyways, that happens. A week goes by the next week, we're back at home. And I had trespassers on my property. And these, sometimes the, the state police and federal agents would come onto my property. And just like run around the bushes around my house, you know, to like, you know, freak me out. And or thinking that they're freaking me out. And I laughed at most of this. So I call 911 to report the trespassers and I'm working in my garage on some, you know, project. And they're playing music and sounds from their phones, like trying to like, get me to come out and like, run after them or something.

• 1:28:31Speaker 02

  So anyways, 45 minutes go by, the police haven't arrived. And sometimes that's not uncommon, probably for a trespassing claim in the UP of Michigan. So I call back and the dispatcher or the 911 operator gives me the phone number of the state police officer that is responding to the call and I'm supposed to call him on the cell phone. Well, I go call the phone number on my cell phone. And the phone rings in the bushes. I'm not kidding. And I started laughing and, and they know, because you could hear it like you get shut off real quick and, and I'm just like, I just caught these guys. Like this is concrete evidence you can obtain from the location of a person's cell phone and the phone calls made. I mean, I know.

• 1:29:15Tucker Carlson?

  Were any of these people ever punished? The drone operators, the state cop?

• 1:29:19Speaker 02

  No. So these people haven't been published. The state cop, his name is Deputy Bray. I know who he is and he has actually a family in Iron Mountain, Michigan. So I don't know how, to what extent. There was another person, I actually witnessed one of the state police officers in my house

• 1:29:39Speaker 02

  through a black, through a plate glass window. I was out working on the property. He was on my computer trying to destroy evidence, I think. He lives in the town in the roots. So much of this came from the state police, which is the governor, Governor Whitmer administration. Totally corrupt history of working with the FBI to harass.

• 1:29:57Tucker Carlson?

  Person, yes.

• 1:29:58Speaker 02

  And so I don't know if they, they've ever been held accountable. I know for a fact that the FBI office in the state of Michigan had been spreading rumors with state and local law, excuse me, county and local law enforcement that I was dangerous.

• 1:30:16Speaker 02

  I mean, this is

• 1:30:17Tucker Carlson?

  And no one was ever held accountable. What about your former coworkers at Ego Health Alliance? Where are they now?

• 1:30:23Speaker 02

  I haven't checked in a while. So Dr. Billy Karas, who I actually really liked. He was the executive vice president. He was second to Peter. He wound up at the Aspen Institute.

• 1:30:37Tucker Carlson?

  That's the most perfect thing I've ever heard. Okay. It was either that of the Atlantic Council or Georgetown University. I knew it was one of the three. Okay.

• 1:30:44Speaker 02

  Funny. So the other vice presidents, Dr. Epstein or Dr. Oval, I'm not sure where they are. I know Dr. Daszak's trying to get something new going, which is basically, it sounds like sort of the same thing. And, you know, I understand why there have been a series.

• 1:31:00Tucker Carlson?

  Has Dr. Daszak ever faced any penalty at all for participating in this?

• 1:31:04Speaker 02

  No, and the best part is that what was crazy about all of this, I should say, is that I attended a number of the hearings in the COVID Select Committee in person, and I was there for Dr. Daszak's grilling. And they have the part where they go through, basically, he's denying that any of this is gain of function, his involvement, and he's fighting back. And then, you know, it gets to the end of the congressional hearings where counsel for both the Democrats and Republicans get the chance to examine the witness. And during that question, they actually asked Dr. Daszak whether or not he is working with the intelligence community. And at first, he lies. He says, no, that he wasn't. And then they had actually obtained records that he was, which was apparent. I didn't know that at the time.

• 1:31:46Speaker 02

  And they pushed him on it. And then he came clean that he was. So it's not, it's on the official record that he was working with the intelligence community.

• 1:31:54Tucker Carlson?

  That's crazy, though.

• 1:31:55Speaker 02

  And nobody talks about that. You know, this is, that wasn't in the news, but that came out at the end of the hearing.

• 1:32:02Tucker Carlson?

  I guess you would have no way to know whether CIA ever gathered meaningful intelligence from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

• 1:32:11Speaker 02

  In my opinion, probably not.

• 1:32:13Tucker Carlson?

  Probably not.

• 1:32:13Speaker 02

  So it's so often, and I get this question. It's like when I worked at the National Laboratory. If we had anyone who was foreign to the lab, and I mean, anyone external to Sandia.

• 1:32:21Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:21Speaker 02

  Come to the laboratory, we would give them the, give them what I call the special tour. So they would have their Sandia minder and we'd take them to an area which we had bug swept before. And then, you know, we'd show them whatever we wanted to show, the dog and pony show. And the second we left that, there would be bug checked before or after they left. So if that's what we do in the United States, and that's our standard protocol for top secret, secret environments, we don't think the Chinese are doing the same thing. So you have all these US government officials and Dr. Daszak visiting that laboratory. They, you know, would just take them around to them like, oh, this is our microbiology laboratory. This is our, you know, this is our ventilation hood where we do sample work.

• 1:33:04Speaker 02

  I mean, just looking at the equipment in a laboratory sometimes doesn't actually tell you what they're working on either.

• 1:33:09Tucker Carlson?

  Well, of course not.

• 1:33:10Speaker 02

  You're dealing with viruses, you can't see these things, bacteria or pathogens.

• 1:33:13Tucker Carlson?

  Right. I can see someone's kitchen stove. I don't know what they're making for dinner.

• 1:33:16Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:33:17Tucker Carlson?

  So you've told a remarkable story and you know, it's remarkable because of the lengths they went to keep you from telling it. But with the benefit of several years, five years really of hindsight and thinking about this, what do you think? This was, was this an accidental leak from the Wuhan lab? And then they sort of backfilled after that? Was this something else? Like what, what's your view?

• 1:33:44Speaker 02

  So the, the way that I'm trained and the way that I've worked in this type of intelligence aspect of the sciences, you look at scenarios. So you come up with every possible scenario and then you use hypothesis testing evidence to eliminate hypothesis or scenarios. So we're now at the, the stage where this could be a few different things. One, it could have been a pure accident, accidental release of from the Wuhan laboratory. And if, if it's that scenario, it looks like it was a laboratory employee, potentially a graduate student who'd been working in that laboratory. It could have been.

• 1:34:20Tucker Carlson?

  Who became infected, then spread it unknowingly.

• 1:34:23Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:34:23Tucker Carlson?

  To the world.

• 1:34:24Speaker 02

  So that, that is, I think the, the scenario which has the most favor publicly and among experts who are now committed the fact that this is a laboratory leak. It could have been an intentional release that still hasn't been eliminated. One or multiple groups could have intentionally released the agent. There, there's one troubling aspect of this is that there are types of studies or scientific studies which we could have ran to conclusively identify the origin of the disease in space and time. And this is a classic epidemiological method.

• 1:35:05Speaker 02

  There are blood banks and historical records of disease through blood donation programs globally. So what we do is we go to those blood banks, look at old samples, or we look at other tissues or samples that have been collected.

• 1:35:18Tucker Carlson?

  They did with HIV.

• 1:35:19Speaker 02

  And then you look through, okay, is in this location in here, what time, when? And then now with modern technology, you can actually use more genetic applications to look at the, so because SARS-CoV-2 evolved so rapidly, you can actually look at the phylogenetic tree to see, you know, where in time was this sample? And you'd follow that back, then with the location information you're obtaining of positive hits where the sample, positive samples were found to eventually trace you back to the origin. And that study's never been done at scale, and I don't know why. It's another one of those questions, like, why haven't we done this?

• 1:35:59Speaker 02

  And there's a number of, of organizations and the US military that could look at their own genetic blood bank samples to sort of figure out where this came from and when. Maybe they've already done that, right? Because that would happen behind closed doors and the Department of Defense or the Defense Medical Agencies would, would, would do that. So these are questions that, that could be answered, and they haven't been answered. And I have more thoughts and opinions to what has

• 1:36:33Speaker 02

  Transpired related to the origin of this disease. And I'm now at the position of that. If this investigation were to take place because the world is in such a tenuous position in terms of a potential for World War III, that should happen in a classified setting. And then investigation should be in the form of using the UCMJ process or the Department of Defense because Dr. Anthony Fauci, Dr. Daszak, Ralph Barrett, all these people are essentially working on a defense program. They're working with DOD, it falls under UCMJ authority legally. Not many people know that. It's not just people.

• 1:37:12Tucker Carlson?

  Uniform coded military.

• 1:37:13Speaker 02

  Yes. So people who are working with the DOD, whether they're a civilian or government employee on a project, Project Defuse, are subject to UCMJ. That's where the investigation should happen. It shouldn't happen at the Department of Justice. I believe that Secretary Hegseth has the leadership to execute this properly. And if the investigation warrants, then criminal charges could be brought under UCMJ in a classified setting. So basically a classified trial, which exists. Then set a time period of five to 10 years to release the results of that criminal trial publicly. Obviously, if someone's found guilty and they're in prison, you'll know that there are some wrongdoing.

• 1:37:56Speaker 02

  But I don't think that we're. My greatest concern is that if there were more nefarious components of this, now is not the time to really, really, really say information publicly.

• 1:38:08Tucker Carlson?

  Because the world sits on the cusp of a global war.

• 1:38:11Speaker 02

  Exactly. And, and I'm actually sort of following, following our leaders here. There have been a series.

• 1:38:18Tucker Carlson?

  That is a very balanced view, let me just say.

• 1:38:21Speaker 02

  Well, thank you.

• 1:38:22Tucker Carlson?

  For those who would dismiss you as a wacko. I don't know what I think of that. I haven't thought of it until you said it, but that I think that's a kind of a window into the way that you think, which is in a restrained and responsible way.

• 1:38:35Speaker 02

  Well, thank you. And the that opinion or that belief and that process sort of just came to me in the last week, and that's from looking at the director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, in her office declining some FOIA requests from several groups related to the origin of COVID and the story. And I firmly believe that Director Gabbard is on the right side of humanity and history. I'm a huge fan of hers, and I've had some conversations with her back and forth on on social media, direct conversations, like direct messages. And we have some friends that are, you know, friends of a friend kind of thing. So I believe her heart's in the right place.

• 1:39:17Tucker Carlson?

  I can I can verify that through, you know, a decade of knowing her well. And she's one of the only famous people I've ever met, maybe the only famous person I've ever met, who not only didn't get, doesn't own a home, because she's never made any money at all, because that's the last thing on her mind. So who else can you say that about?

• 1:39:38Speaker 02

  Not many people.

• 1:39:39Tucker Carlson?

  That's right.

• 1:39:39Speaker 02

  And so, looking at her leadership right now, and her office's leadership, office's leadership and their response to these FOIA requests and their, the nature of these FOIA requests would actually get at some of these root issues and they're they're objecting to them and they're not releasing the information. She's in the position now where she knows a lot more about what happened or what really happened than she did before President Trump was elected and she was nominated into that position and eventually became the director. So, looking at that, I think they're making the same kind of assessment that I am.

• 1:40:15Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:18Tucker Carlson?

  That, of course, it was a lab leak. I mean, I don't really, when you said the portion of the scientific community so-called that ascribes to the lab leak theory, that suggests that there are people who are still pushing the pangolin lie?

• 1:40:32Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:40:32Tucker Carlson?

  Are there?

• 1:40:33Speaker 02

  Yes. Well, if you go over to the other Twitter, Blue, whatever it's called, Blue Sky, or I think, I can't remember the name of it. But on social media, there are other groups of scientists in publicly saying that this was still a laboratory leak. In fact, they haven't retracted.

• 1:40:50Tucker Carlson?

  That it was not a laboratory leak?

• 1:40:51Speaker 02

  That was not a laboratory leak. They still haven't retracted the proximal origins paper, which is a complete fraud.

• 1:40:57Tucker Carlson?

  Are you serious?

• 1:40:58Speaker 02

  No. And Dr. E. Bright from Rutgers University, who I admire and respect, he's fighting this, the good fight every day on, on social media as an old, old seasoned professor should. So the, the whole complex of the pharmaceutical industry, the scientific community that works tightly with the pharmaceutical industry, or are funded by the agencies involved in this, are all opposing the natural, or excuse me, the lab, they're all opposing the lab leak.

• 1:41:35Tucker Carlson?

  The vaccine manufacturers are opposed?

• 1:41:38Speaker 02

  I would believe so. Well, not them directly, because they're not making public statements on this. But if you look at, you know, you follow the money. So if you look at the scientists, okay, and where they get their money from, many of the people who are involved in mRNA technology development associated with SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are in the camp of this was a naturally emerging disease.

• 1:41:58Tucker Carlson?

  And I'm using air quotes around the word doctor, but Dr. Peter Hotez, for example, a vax pusher of longstanding, is, is he, just to name one name, is he pushing the pangolin lie still?

• 1:42:12Speaker 02

  I don't know if he's pushing it still, but I mean, he was, he was pushing the natural emergency theory quite profoundly, every, everywhere he went for a period of time.

• 1:42:21Tucker Carlson?

  Why would, that's such an interesting nexus. Why would people who are promoting vaccines want to lie about the origin of COVID?

• 1:42:32Speaker 02

  Well, Dr. Hotez is actually a more interesting, specific person that you named, because he actually has connections to the Wuhan Institute of Virology as well. So he's more directly linked back to the origin story than other scientists in the vaccine.

• 1:42:45Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 1:42:46Speaker 02

  And that's

• 1:42:47Tucker Carlson?

  In what way?

• 1:42:48Speaker 02

  I forget that he has some kind of either publication record with scientists there or collaboration of research, I believe.

• 1:42:57Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, well, he's, yeah, it's interesting. You really feel like you don't know your country very well. When, I mean, I knew people who believed Dr. Peter Hotez. And I thought to myself, how could this, I mean, this is so clearly, you know, not true. I don't know how you could believe that.

• 1:43:15Tucker Carlson?

  It was really a divisive time in the country or a revealing time and those, the truth led to division. I guess maybe it's a better way to put it. But anyway, but why in general leaving Hotez out of it? Why would a vax pusher not want to tell the truth about the origin of the virus?

• 1:43:31Speaker 02

  Simply that gain-of-function technology is used for virology and vaccine development. And mRNA is a huge portfolio of new vaccine technology development. And

• 1:43:43Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you. Okay.

• 1:43:44Speaker 02

  The

• 1:43:44Tucker Carlson?

  That's the answer.

• 1:43:45Speaker 02

  And there's, the funny thing is, if you look at mRNA technology and its future, a lot of corporations have banked in the pharmaceutical or biotech industry, mRNA being the future vaccine technology. And I think if you look at the rise in cancers associated with mRNA technology in the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine, and there's a new study, a recent study that came out in Korea, which is a massive cohort study with a large, large, has much, has a lot of statistical power, found five or six cancers that were associated with the vaccine. Okay. And many of these other studies looked at one type of cancer, for example, lymphoma in Sweden, they didn't find an association. But this Korean study looked at all types of cancers and they're now finding these associations.

• 1:44:28Speaker 02

  So the writing's on the wall for mRNA technology. I don't, do not think that it's going to be the future vaccine technology. And frankly, I'm not so concerned anymore with the old way of thinking that the emerging infectious, infectious disease threat that we should be concerned about are old world diseases. So bacillus anthracis being weaponized, for example, a coronavirus being weaponized. Gain-of-function technology has evolved within the last Two to three years at such a rapid pace, the future threat we need to be mitigating against and protecting against is actually synthetic pathogens and synthetic life.

• 1:45:10Speaker 02

  And I don't think, and I know for a fact that most of the world isn't aware that we've actually already created single cell life. It exists. The paper, the seminal paper on it came out three years ago. So we now have fully functioning synthetic cells which are created with nanotechnology and some of those, and I could get in the weeds on what that nanotechnology is, which I can self replicate. And so what this means, if you step back and what this means-

• 1:45:34Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, so man has created life?

• 1:45:36Speaker 02

  Technically synthetic, yes.

• 1:45:39Tucker Carlson?

  And by synth-, what is it, so, but if it's, if it behaves independently and it's self replicating, then aren't those the criteria for life?

• 1:45:48Speaker 02

  Well, that's a whole philosophical debate and-

• 1:45:52Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I don't want to believe it, so I'm happy to have the definition readjusted, but that would be the obvious definition of it, right?

• 1:45:59Speaker 02

  And there's also synthetic cloning now. So you can have an agent, and if you know exactly a pathogen or a cell, and some of this isn't, isn't, isn't advanced, so if it's more complicated cell type, for example, you might not be able to replicate that, but you can now synthetically generate a virus to match the virus. And you, so what that means is you don't have to have the actual virus, you don't have to collect a sample anymore, you can just have the code and you can generate it. That's where we are now.

• 1:46:31Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:46:32Speaker 02

  And that's, that's for viruses. Now if we're talking-

• 1:46:34Tucker Carlson?

  You can text me the code and I can make the virus.

• 1:46:36Speaker 02

  And I believe we'll be there in the near future with bacteria. And with synthetic life though, you can generate very radical things because what, what this means is we can make what would be defined as a single cell synthetic organism, which does different things that don't exist. And it has massive potential, good uses and bad uses. The good uses, you could use this, and I could see this being popular, popular among scientists funded by the Borlaag program at USDA where they use this for pest control and you could, you could target, make it so it was very specific, the synthetic cell or organism

• 1:47:19Speaker 02

  or bacteria to target, target something like a pest, like a grasshopper, for example.

• 1:47:24Tucker Carlson?

  Or white people.

• 1:47:26Speaker 02

  Well, we're get to the other side of this. That would only target a specific species defined to a geographic region. So you might not worry of it spilling over into some other insect population in theory. Okay. This is, this is, this is sort of on the, what I'm talking about here is the, the emerging future trend of this. Now, on the nefarious side of this, how is it going to be used? We're no longer talking about what living things. So you can engineer a synthetic pathogen to attack equipment. So you can have it have that synthetic organism produce an acid that would eat metal.

• 1:48:08Speaker 02

  You could have it produce a biofilm which would attack metal underwater, like a submarine. This technology is being developed right now at a handful of places. Some of it's in the United States, much of it is, some of it is not. Most of the places it's being developed are friendly to the United States or are allies. But this synthetic threat is rapidly emerging. That, so that's the biotechnology side. Now, if you take a look at, and I know I've been watching your show, recent episodes, AIs have been a big hot topic and there's tons of investment going into it. We're going to see a fusion between this synthetic biology technology and AI.

• 1:48:53Speaker 02

  And it's probably on the four to five year horizon. And the AI will be programmed into the micro circuits, systems of the nanotechnology.

• 1:49:08Speaker 02

  It's a fact. I mean, like, you're gonna use the best software, the best programs, you can get onto a, basically a nano computer within that cell, which does the programming. This might sound like crazy science fiction to a lot of people. People would say that's not possible.

• 1:49:22Tucker Carlson?

  I don't think anyone would say that's not possible.

• 1:49:25Speaker 02

  I can, I can point to a peer reviewed publication where they're doing all the components of this, and it's just a matter of time before someone gets wise and assembles it, and there's gonna be plenty of financial motive to do this. So, there's no stopping it. And that, that's what I'm saying here. There's no stopping where this is headed. And the reason why I say that, that there, the Trump administration did some great work with Russia, trying to, to negotiate a new biological treaty.

• 1:49:52Tucker Carlson?

  I just want to apologize in public for every moment I've defended, like, our economic system, because like, any system that allows something like this is a bad system.

• 1:50:00Speaker 02

  Well, I don't, so, all technology is dual use, right? It's like firearms, is a classic example. A firearm, a firearm in a good person's hand is a tool to defend and protect yourself, your family against tyranny. An evil person's hand?

• 1:50:13Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, nuclear power, nuclear bombs, I get it, but, you know, you just have to assess the downside risk realistically, as compared to the upside benefit. And I think with the technology, well, nuclear technology, I believe this, and certainly true with everything you're describing, downside risk way, far outweighs any potential gain. You live to 110, okay.

• 1:50:37Speaker 02

  So, I'd argue this. I can completely agree with, with the upside and downside risk of this. But what I'm saying is there's no stopping it.

• 1:50:48Tucker Carlson?

  No, I'm.

• 1:50:49Speaker 02

  And this is why the, what I was gonna say, related to President Trump and the Trump administration negotiating a new biological treaty with, with the international community.

• 1:51:02Speaker 02

  Well, one, looking at history back to the 70s, I don't think it's gonna be effective. So the existing biological weapons convention we have is outdated. It focuses on select agents, basically, that which can be weaponized through gain-of-function technology. They baked a loophole into it to develop countermeasures. That's vaccine technologies and other prophylactics. And you can engage in the gain-of-function technology, bioweapon development, if you're developing the countermeasure. And they couldn't get anyone to go further past that with having inspections. And I don't see that posture, especially today in today's climate.

• 1:51:36Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:37Speaker 02

  Changing.

• 1:51:38Tucker Carlson?

  So we blew up the Nord Stream pipeline. There's no, I mean, the basis of international treaty, of course, is trust. And there's none. So like, no more international treaties.

• 1:51:50Speaker 02

  Well, I hope.

• 1:51:52Tucker Carlson?

  I hope I'm wrong, too, but I just don't see it right now.

• 1:51:56Speaker 02

  Well, I think that there's a path forward. And the path forward to.

• 1:52:00Tucker Carlson?

  Before we get to the path forward, can we just get to a broader description, more precise description of what the marriage of nanotechnology to AI means? Like, what does that mean?

• 1:52:10Speaker 02

  Sure. So the marriage of nanotechnology to AI means that the AI, or excuse me, the nanotechnology will have swarm-like capabilities. So people or the general world is probably more familiar with swarm technology around drones. They're using this and they're testing this and they're trying to field these rapid swarm technologies. And you do watch these large displays of drone shows that you see commonly in China. That's really them just openly testing drone swarm technology.

• 1:52:40Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 1:52:41Speaker 02

  And that's the civilian, you know, this is cool tech application. But there's actually a much more sinister application of that same technology for defense, dual-use technology. So imagine that these pathogens are like these drones and you see them operate. AI will control the swarm technology around the synthetic pathogens so that they can control their behavior. And then also that the machine inside the synthetic cell can adapt to its environment without any human construction or code or decision-making.

• 1:53:16Tucker Carlson?

  So what would that look like?

• 1:53:18Speaker 02

  In terms of?

• 1:53:19Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I don't know. I can imagine a drone swarm. I've seen one. What would that mean? So you have synthetic cells that are controlled by a computer and then they do what?

• 1:53:31Speaker 02

  Well, they would, use cases always help define what that is. So in a weaponization scenario.

• 1:53:37Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:53:38Speaker 02

  You could use this to deploy a container. Maybe it looks like a bomb into an ocean where you know where a submarine is. The synthetic, the synthetic life could be magnetic and attract to the hull of a submarine. It would attach itself and then it would make decisions about where it should collect on the surface of the submarine independently to create a biofilm and self replicate. To basically cause the sensors or to disable the submarine in some way in space. Use a similar type of maybe, I'm not so sure what the delivery vehicle is, but say that you were to get this onto a satellite.

• 1:54:17Speaker 02

  You could use it then to eat and corrode the silicon and magnesium in the, the structure of that. You could use it to basically disable the, the systems onboard of the physical structure of the, the vessel or, or the, or the satellite. And that's just, I mean, what's, what's really so striking about this is this technology will be able to use to attack objects, but it's a synthetic living thing. There's also the life. So there, there's a new fork, fork here. You can use it to attack objects or you can use it to attack life itself.

• 1:54:59Speaker 02

  And that's more what people would be familiar, familiar with. You could use it to attack specific genetic populations, for example. So if a certain population had a genetic trait, you can make the synthetic pathogen specifically target. Name your niche of race or population of genetically related, closer related families.

• 1:55:24Tucker Carlson?

  The ones who were given fentanyl and denied jobs?

• 1:55:29Tucker Carlson?

  In the United States. So, um, no, I'm just being super

• 1:55:33Speaker 02

  No, but yeah.

• 1:55:34Tucker Carlson?

  But honest.

• 1:55:35Speaker 02

  More, more difficult, probably. Well, unless they, they had some kind of specific marker.

• 1:55:39Tucker Carlson?

  Half kidding, sort of, but you, so I remember Bobby Kennedy got into a great deal of trouble because he said at some event, of course, the New York Post led the charge against him, of course, uh, but that COVID could be tailored, or in fact, what, for whatever reason, COVID had disparate effects on populations.

• 1:55:58Speaker 02

  That's absolutely true. I mean, that's scientifically true. And I was quite familiar with that literature, uh, when he, he made that.

• 1:56:02Tucker Carlson?

  What, what does that mean? Which populations suffered most from COVID?

• 1:56:06Speaker 02

  That, that, there was a, there was a finding in a scientific publication that two different populations of, uh, well, two different populations of people of Jewish ancestry, depending, um, which line they're from, where one was more heavily impacted than the other. And that was, that was.

• 1:56:26Tucker Carlson?

  Sephardic Ashkenazi.

• 1:56:27Speaker 02

  Yes. And that was, that was the finding. And the, I think the point that he was trying to make, or maybe didn't articulate well, is that the agent can be tailored to have that effect. And that's absolutely true. And that's through, through old game of function technology. And with synthetic, full synthetics, what I'm saying is you can make this so, so specific is that I could, if I got your DNA, like off of, you know, say that you threw a cup, I can tailor an agent just to you. And this is how it's changing. And if you're using AI behind that, I could then, and I say that I got a DNA sample from two of your, a couple of your relatives. So I knew what your family tree partially looked like. Machine learning is very good at actually random forest and tree decision making. You do a lot of complex AI behind this to figure out and make predictions, AI could about what

• 1:57:12Speaker 02

  your family tree looked like and have the disease travel through your family line. And this is, now, this is, nobody has ever asked me that question. I just generated that answer based on what I know, but I think that, that is a very real possibility, use or application of this type of technology. It also could be used, and on the flip side of it, you could use it to, um, target specific and rare cancers. And it could be used to eliminate those cancers cleanly and self deactivate and decompose in a way that didn't harm your body. So this technology is going to go, could go two different ways, but it's coming because the medical applications and healthcare applications of it are there and they're going to be, they will be extremely profitable. Imagine that you said,

• 1:57:57Speaker 02

  like, you know, you have cancer. I don't have to give you a drug. I have to inject you with this synthetic, which will seek out the cancer, the tumor in your body and contain it, kill it, with no other harmful effects to your body, in theory. And like I say, in theory, because things always have side effects, right?

• 1:58:19Tucker Carlson?

  Of course. And I just say in general, I would much rather live in a world where I risked dying of tetanus and the common cold than live in a world with this technology. It's not even close. I have a million more questions to ask you, but that's what you just said is so upsetting that I think you've broken my spirit, Dr. Huff.

• 1:58:37Speaker 02

  Well, I think there's a better solution. Let me give you the upside of this, though. So the solution to these problems is typically better biosurveillance. And this is what Equal Health was trying to do. And the part of it that actually works is you can't really understand what's circulating in the world in terms of pathogens, life, unless scientists and engineers are measuring it or trying to identify and look for it. You can't find what you're not looking for. And it would be great to see an international team of scientists working on the technology to detect synthetic life when it emerges. Because if we all think it's a threat,

• 1:59:17Speaker 02

  we don't have to put our head in the sand and ostrich. If we're all just looking for it and we can identify it, early warnings of threats save lives, livestock, livestock, animals, the early warning signal is the most important aspect of defending against future emerging threats. And if we develop that technology, we'll be safer.

• 1:59:43Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. What you really need though, to be safe is good people.

• 1:59:47Speaker 02

  Ethical people, and that's a huge problem in science. I mean, there's, I could talk forever about that. They're not teaching ethics to people like me.

• 1:59:53Tucker Carlson?

  Haven't been to the doctor in five years as a result. I mean, there's, yeah. As corrupt as every other institution. Wow. That, that, what a heavy conversation that was. Thank you. Where can people, if people are interested in finding out more, people with a stronger stomach and stouter heart than I have, want to know more about the last 10 minutes of our conversation? Where, do you write about this?

• 2:00:15Speaker 02

  Well, I've started to, and I'm not sure how it's been received. I've published it on, on Substack. I've done it, published a little bit on, on X and then also on LinkedIn. And it's, it's not very, I don't, I don't think people are catching on. Actually, I just solicited proposals to DARPA and a few other places of saying, hey, we should be looking at this. And I already know for a fact that they've been thinking at it and they're, they've been dabbling and they've put a little money into it.

• 2:00:41Speaker 02

  So I'm working, I'm actually actively working on this. If you want to, for the little, the limited time that I, or the few things that I do publish about this, I put it on X and AG Huff is my, my Twitter account. But other than that, this is all very much evolving and it's a work in progress.

• 2:00:57Tucker Carlson?

  It's amazing, it's amazing when you said, gain of function research has changed so much. And I'm thinking, what timeframe is he going to lay out here? Because I think most normal people would assume after COVID, there would be a dramatic reduction in gain of function research, considering that's what gave us COVID and wrecked our country. But you said in the last two or three years.

• 2:01:20Speaker 02

  It's, it's now the, the building, so if you're in biomedical research, in microbiology or virology or bioengineering, it's, it's something that you get trained on and you learn to now advance to, it's a building block to learn about synthetic biology. So there's going to be more research professors at least leading universities within the next five years, teaching this to people. And it's a trickle down.

• 2:01:46Tucker Carlson?

  I always knew science was bad. I just want to brag. I just want to lay my marker down. I just want to say, I've always been opposed to science. I've always been opposed to technology. Not stupid, but I am convinced of that. I have been my whole life. So I think I'm being vindicated in real time.

• 2:02:02Speaker 02

  Well, maybe I can cheer you up a bit.

• 2:02:06Speaker 02

  It's not all evil. In to your point earlier, it's the people behind it.

• 2:02:10Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's it.

• 2:02:11Speaker 02

  And maybe we need to do a better, my community, the scientific community needs to do a better job of training our students not to be evil. And that comes through how we select our students, how we mentor them and how we show them or teach them what the ultimate goals in life are. And that comes through mentorship. And that has really fallen off, at least during my academic and scientific career, where everything is money driven, financially driven.

• 2:02:35Tucker Carlson?

  Notice.

• 2:02:35Speaker 02

  And then on top of it, you have a lot of predatory professors and academics and scientists preying on their students. And it's a vicious cycle. And I mean, what do I mean by preying on them? Well,

• 2:02:45Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, not just sexually.

• 2:02:46Speaker 02

  Not sexually, but in terms of

• 2:02:48Tucker Carlson?

  That's the least of the problems.

• 2:02:49Speaker 02

  The PhD world, it's very common that research professors basically steal their, their students' work and have them, you take credit for their work. And the students aren't taught about ethics in science and research on top of it. I mean, it's not like it's required coursework. Most, most scientists don't train their students in ethics. So how do we become better as a community of creating better people as scientists? So they're not just out chasing money. And it's mentorship and we have to break the cycle. I mean, we have to break the cycle.

• 2:03:26Tucker Carlson?

  It's going to take a radical religious revival to do that. Nothing short of that is going to work. That's my view. That's what I'm hoping for, because I feel like we are on the cusp of like true darkness.

• 2:03:38Speaker 02

  I agree. And I, I think about these things a lot. And you know, scientists, we have people ask me what I do. I'm sitting there staring out the window and I'm like, I'm working. And they're like, you know what? I'm thinking through problems. And people often wonder, well, what do PhDs do? And we sit there and we think about these things and we try to come up with answers. And we try not to waste any of our brain power on, on things that don't matter. And

• 2:04:03Speaker 02

  I don't know if it's with a full religious, if it's a fully religious aspect, at least within the scientific community, and being real here, that I know many of these scientists are atheists, and I know that many of these scientists who are atheists are, some of them, I should say, are great and fantastic people. At least at a minimum, for them to view themselves in the greater context of what it all means, and try to have positive, I guess, a positive force on the world through what they're doing.

• 2:04:38Tucker Carlson?

  But there's no positive or negative for an atheist. I mean, it doesn't, there's no hierarchy of value that rooted anything other than preference. So, none of that's real. How can you say something's bad if you don't believe that there's a power higher than you?

• 2:04:50Speaker 02

  It's a great question.

• 2:04:52Tucker Carlson?

  You can't, is the answer. So, you should never allow atheists to have this kind of power. Not because they're evil, a lot of them are great people, I really like a lot of atheists, it's nothing personal, it's just that there's no check at all on the power if you think that you're God, you know, so that can't be allowed. Dr. Huff, thank you. Amazing conversation.

• 2:05:14Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:05:14Tucker Carlson?

  It's gonna affect my sleep. Thank you.

• 2:05:24Tucker Carlson?

  We've got a new website we hope you will visit, it's called newcommissionnow.com, and it refers to a new 9/11 commission. So, we spent months putting together our 9/11 documentary series, and if there's one thing we learned, it's that in fact, there was foreknowledge of the attacks. People knew. The American public deserves to know. We're shocked, actually, to learn that, to have that confirmed, but it's true. The evidence is overwhelming. The CIA, for example, knew the hijackers were here in the United States, they knew they were planning an act of terror.

• 2:05:59Tucker Carlson?

  To go to the United States of America. A foreign national was caught celebrating as the World Trade Center fell and later said he was in New York, quote, "to document the event." I didn't know there would be an event to document in the first place because he had foreknowledge. And maybe most amazingly, somebody, an unknown investor, shorted American Airlines and United Airlines, the companies whose planes the attackers used on 9/11, as well as the banks that were inside the Twin Towers just before the attacks. They made money on the 9/11 attacks because they knew they were coming. Who did that?

• 2:06:33Speaker 06

  You have to look at the evidence.

• 2:06:35Tucker Carlson?

  The US government learned the name of that investor, but never released it. Maybe there's an instant explanation for all this, but there isn't, actually. And by the way, it doesn't matter whether there is or not, the public deserves to know what the hell that was. How did people know ahead of time, oh, I was no one ever punished for it? 9/11 Commission, the original one, was a fraud. It was fake. Its conclusions were written before the investigation. That's true, and it's outrageous. This country needs a new 9/11 Commission, one that actually tells the truth and tries to get to the bottom of the story. We can't just move on like nothing happened. 9/11 Commission is covered. Something did happen.

• 2:07:19Tucker Carlson?

  We need to force a new investigation into 9/11 almost 25 years later. Sorry, justice demands it. And if you want that, go to newcommissionnow.com to add your name to our petition. We're not getting paid for this, we're doing this because we really mean it. Newcommissionnow.com.