391: Part 2: She Packed Butcher Knives in Her Purse | Angelique Robledo

When Angelique Robledo was 18 years old and pregnant, she thought she had found a friend in another woman who seemed to be going through the same experience. But that friendship was hiding something far more sinister. In this episode, Angelique shares the terrifying story of how someone she trusted was allegedly planning to kill her and steal her unborn baby; a rare but horrifying crime known as fetal abduction. From the early red flags to the day everything changed, Angelique walks us through what happened, how she survived, and the lasting impact it’s had on her life. She also opens up about the complicated legal outcome, her experience speaking publicly about the case, and how she’s using her story today to raise awareness and help others trust their instincts. This is a story of betrayal, survival, and resilience.⚠️ Listener discretion is advised.. If you’re new here, don’t forget to follow the show for weekly deep dives into the darkest true crime cases! To watch the video version of this episode, head over to youtube.com/@annieelise. .🔎Join Our True Crime Club & Get Exclusive Content & Perks..🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to both of my weekly true crime series 10 to Life & Serialously with Annie Elise wherever you get your podcasts on the Annie Elise Channel!🍎 Apple Podcasts | Where you can also unlock access to 100+ and growing extra exclusive deep dives.💚 Spotify🔴 YouTube🎙️ All Other Platforms.📸 Follow Annie on Socials Instagram: @_annieeliseTikTok: @_annieeliseSubstack: @annieeliseFacebook: @10toLife.👗 Shop Annie’s Must-Haves! ShopMY: bit.ly/AnnieElise_ShopMy Amazon: bit.ly/AnnieElise_Amazon.🫵🏻 Get Involved or Recommend a CaseAbout Annie: www.annieelise.comFor Business Inquiries: [email protected].📚 Episode Sources Arizona Psychiatric Security Review Board | Maricopa Police Department | Pinal County Precinct 8 Justice Court | Pinal County Superior Court, Arizona ••••••••••••••••••🚨Disclaimers1️⃣ Some links may be affiliate links, they do not cost you anything, but I make a small percentage from the sale. Thank you so much for watching and supporting me. 2️⃣ Sources used to collect this information include various public news sites, interviews, court documents, FB groups dedicated to the case, and various news channel segments. When quoting statements made by others, they are strictly alleged until confirmed otherwise. Please remember my videos are my independent opinion and to always do your own research. 3️⃣ The views and opinions expressed in this video are personal and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. Assumptions made in the analysis are not reflective of the position of any entity other than the creator(s). These views are subject to change, revision, and rethinking at any time and are not to be held in perpetuity. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, correctness, suitability, or validity of any information on this video and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. It is the reader’s responsibility to verify their own facts.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Annie Elise?

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• 1:14Annie Elise?

  Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Sleep.

• 1:37Annie Elise?

  Hey, everyone, and welcome back to part two of Angelique's story over here on Serial Sleep with me, your host, Annie Elise. Now, in part one, if you're either catching up, or you missed it, or you just need a refresh, we walked through everything leading up to the moment we left off at. Angelique's life as a young, pregnant teenager, the relationship that she was building with her new great friend Cassandra, and how what seemed like a very normal friendship slowly started taking a very unsettling turn. And we left off at a pretty chilling moment, too, when Cassandra had brought Angelique into her bedroom, told her to turn around for a gift, and then started counting. One, two.

• 2:22Annie Elise?

  Now, if you haven't listened to part one yet, I highly, highly recommend going back and starting there so that you have the full context before continuing. But with that, let's pick back up right where we left off. Here is Angelique.

• 2:36Speaker 03

  So finally, I go, Cassandra, are you gonna show me? And she goes, yes. And she puts one hand on my shoulder, on my left hand shoulder, and she leans me forward so much that my stomach is huge that I can't breathe. And she goes, one, two, three. And right when she does the three, I literally jump up off the bed. And I, the reason I jumped, though, is because something said, run. Like, in my head, it said, run. And so I jumped up and I ran to my, like, ran to my, like, my light. I turned the light switch on. And I look at her, and she's putting something back into the bag. And I'm like, what are you doing? And then all of a sudden, what a coincidence, her phone rings. It's whoever she's been talking to this whole day, the phone rings,

• 3:20Speaker 03

  and she's like, just talking to somebody in Spanish. And I remember sitting there, looking at her, and just like, observing, and just watching her. And she's just having a full conversation with somebody.

• 3:33Annie Elise?

  Still on your bed?

• 3:33Speaker 03

  Still on my bed.

• 3:34Annie Elise?

  The bag next to her now?

• 3:35Speaker 03

  Next to her, yes. Just, just talking. And then she's grabbing the bed, she's getting off the bed. And she sounds like she's almost arguing with somebody. And then I literally take, I literally, like, I'm standing there for probably good about 30 seconds, until I turn around and walk out of my room to collect myself, to understand what just happened. So now I go and I sit at the table, and I'm so dissociated at this point.

• 3:58Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 3:58Speaker 03

  I'm doing, I'm just filing my nails. All I'm doing is sitting there, I'm replaying it over and over again in my head. You stood there, she didn't give you anything. What was it? Is there something in her bag? Are you crazy? Like, you didn't take your nap today? Maybe, maybe you're delirious. Like, maybe this isn't even actually happening. So I am fighting back and forth with myself. But I'm a very big, I'm not a true crime junkie, but I'm definitely like an SVU junkie. So I've watched a lot of like SVU where I've known that you don't, like you don't let the murderer know that you know what's gonna happen.

• 4:29Annie Elise?

  Yep.

• 4:29Speaker 03

  Because if you do, you're gonna make them, they're gonna make a mistake, which could be, you know, it could be really bad. So I was like, in my head, I was like, okay, don't alarm her to where you think something is wrong, but also don't be stupid and not realize what's going, like what could be happening.

• 4:44Annie Elise?

  At this point, you knew something's weird here. Something's going on. I don't know what it is, but something's not right.

• 4:50Speaker 03

  Something's not right, but I will be very honest. I was also 18 years old, a teenager, and there was a part of me that did feel like, what if I'm wrong?

• 4:59Annie Elise?

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:59Speaker 03

  What if I accuse now this new friend who's friends with all of my friends and myself? And my husband's friends? And I call the cops on her?

• 5:07Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 5:08Speaker 03

  And then I look like, Angelique, all she was doing was giving you a gift. And there's a gift in there. Like, she gave me gifts earlier. Like, what would make this different? So we've already, we've already established she's weird.

• 5:20Annie Elise?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:21Speaker 03

  We've already, we've already established that she's a weird person. So like, I don't know, that part of me was in the back of my head, but it wasn't going away. So I wasn't just going into this thinking like, oh, la da da da da, like I'm just gonna, no, that's not how I went into this. I went into this very, very smart.

• 5:35Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 5:36Speaker 03

  So then I'm sitting there and I'm doing my nails and she comes out and she goes, my husb- that was my husband. And I was like, oh, she goes, he's gonna surprise, he's surprising me and coming down here to go to dinner with me, but I have nothing to wear. And I'm like, she's leaving. My gosh, she's leaving.

• 5:51Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 5:51Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh. She's not trying to kill me. Like, she's gonna leave. So I was got so excited. So I was like, oh, you can try something on in my room. Go look in my room. I didn't even want to bring up the gift. Like, at this point, whatever you have in your bag, I don't want.

• 6:03Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 6:04Speaker 03

  So I didn't even bring it up. I, I didn't, I didn't want to. I was too scared to bring it up. I just knew at this moment she was gonna go. Now, I don't know how in-depth you want me to go, but there was another incident that happened like right after that. So I don't, I don't know where this, so I don't know where it fits into my story.

• 6:25Speaker 03

  There was a moment, and I don't know if it happened before we went into the room or if it happened after, but there was a moment that she went into the bathroom and she came out with water on her pants and tried to fake like she, like her water broke.

• 6:39Annie Elise?

  Oh, and she told you her water broke?

• 6:41Speaker 03

  She's like, I don't know what's happening. I, I, and I'm sorry, like I-

• 6:44Annie Elise?

  No, it's okay.

• 6:45Speaker 03

  I don't remember if it was before or after. So like, I've never really tell people in interviews because I can't, like, I can't distinguish when it happened.

• 6:52Annie Elise?

  I think that's absolutely fair that you don't remember that. Hello, I mean, with everything you went through, but okay, that's obviously a very big detail.

• 6:58Speaker 03

  It is because at one point she called somebody and was like, she asked me, like, she started freaking out, like, oh my gosh, I don't know what's happening. I was like, oh my God, like, did your water break? Like, you're seven months, like, you're six, seven months pregnant, like, this is bad. And she was like, I don't know what's going on. Will you come to the hospital with me? And I was like, yeah, like, I'll, I'll come to the hospital with you, like, whatever you need. She goes, okay. And she, and she goes, well, let me call somebody. She goes, hey, come get us. Okay, bye. And hangs up. Who's this person that she's calling?

• 7:26Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 7:26Speaker 03

  And then I go, oh, well, I need to call my mom really quick. I need to, I need to let her know what's happening. And I start to grab my phone and she goes, wait, you need to let your mom know? And I said, yeah, like, I, she's like, you're 18. I was like, yeah, but I, I live with my mom, like, I gotta let her know.

• 7:38Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 7:38Speaker 03

  She goes, well, let me go make sure I didn't pee myself. And then she goes back into the bathroom, comes out, and she goes, false alarm, I think I might have just peed myself. And I felt really bad. I didn't feel bad, but I had done that, like, twice. So I had, I'm, I'm gonna raise my hand with guilt that I have been the woman that went to the hospital thinking that my, you know, water broke. And unfortunately, when they come back and say, it's not water, it's urine. And you're like, you're like, are you sure? Can you run that test again, please?

• 8:06Annie Elise?

  So she was doing a lot of things, though, to almost like simulate that she had gone into labor. And then she, then when you were saying, I'm gonna notify my mom, she starts walking it back, saying, oh, no, I just peed myself.

• 8:20Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 8:20Annie Elise?

  Okay, so whether that happened before or after the bedroom incident, unclear. But now she's getting picked up by her husband, she needs something to wear, she's going through her closet.

• 8:29Speaker 03

  Yes, I want to say it happened after because I feel like her trying clothes on in my room had something to do with her leaving with her husband, but also because she had-

• 8:37Annie Elise?

  Wanted to change?

• 8:37Speaker 03

  She wanted to change because she had water all over her. I just, and a part of my brain just doesn't remember exactly. I do just remember that, though, because I remember thinking in my head, like, oh, this poor girl just peed herself in my, in my, in like, my, my bathroom.

• 8:49Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 8:51Speaker 03

  I go into my room, I grab like five different outfits, I lay it out on my bed. And I'm like, here you go, you can try all of these on, whatever fits you, you can have, I don't even care. Like, take it with you, hasta la vista, bye. Yeah. So she goes into her room, my room, and before she goes into my room though, there's no reason for this, but I'm a can- I love candles, I love them. I just, you know, you feel that moment that you just want to light a candle just because. So I had gotten this new like little, it was like a teacup candle that like, where you put like the oil and then like it like kind of goes up and Oh, okay. lets like the fragrance or, I don't know what they're called, but you know, you visually, you can see what I'm saying. So I remember before she went into the room, I took a candle and I lit it. No reason, just lit it.

• 9:33Speaker 03

  And that's when I laid the clothes out, she went and tried the clothes on, she closed the door. I went back and started, you know, filing my nails more. And then all of a sudden she comes out and she goes, what do you think about this? And I was like, oh, that dress looks great on you, like you can barely tell that you're even pregnant, like, you can have it, like you, that would be perfect to go to dinner with. And then I start, like as I'm talking to her though, I start walking into my room. And when I walk into my room, I smell something weird. And I'm like, do you smell that? And she was like, what? And I was like, it smells like something's on fire. And I looked at the candle, the candle's out, but it doesn't smell like a burning candle went out. It just smells like something's on fire. And she's like, no, I don't smell that. And I'm like, really? And I'm like, huh. So then I start looking everywhere in my room, I open my closet, I, I'm doing this very fast though.

• 10:17Speaker 03

  Like I open my closet, see nothing, look under my bed, see nothing, open my drawers, nothing. And I'm sitting there, my brain is just like kind of going and going and going. And I'm like, what is going on right now? Like, why, it smells like a fire. So then I literally go back as a test because I go and take another candle. Something inside, something inside my brain is telling me that something's wrong. Mm hmm. And I don't know how to prove it. So I go get another candle and I light it. And I see what she does, she goes, oh, um, is it okay if I try this other dress on? And I'm like, yeah, go ahead. But I'm very suspicious now, so she, she runs back into the room, closes the door. And I'm like, something's happening in that room. So then my pantry is diagonal from my, my bedroom door. So I go into my pantry and I'm pretending.

• 11:01Speaker 03

  I'm so paranoid. I'm so paranoid at this point. I'm pretending like I'm looking for chips. So I'm making noise in my pantry and I'm like Cassandra, do you want some chips? Do you want a snack? Are you hungry? And I'm just like leaning over, looking at my, my door and I can see her shadow and it's pacing back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Like it's just, and I'm like, she's fucking setting my house on fire. And I'm so sorry. I don't know for a lot of cause.

• 11:25Annie Elise?

  No, you're fine. You're fine.

• 11:26Speaker 03

  And so I was like, she's setting my house on fire, but nothing made sense. Why? And where am I getting this all from? I have no, like, where do you get from a candle? Like it just, it was very weird. So she opens the door. I run back in there and I look at the candle and I go Cassandra, why is that candle out again? And at this point I'm pissed, like I'm stern, I forgetting that she even tried like whatever happened. I'm just mad. Like what, what is, can you explain to me like what is going on?

• 11:48Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 11:49Speaker 03

  And she goes, what do you mean? I didn't put that out. And she's like, it must've just went out. And I'm like, the fan isn't on, the AC isn't on. How does a candle just go out? And I'm like, and what is that smell?

• 11:59Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 11:59Speaker 03

  And she's like, I don't know. I do smell it now though. And I was like, okay. So then we start looking through my, she's looking through my room with me. I, I look at my, I go to my brother's room, which is right next door. I start searching his room. I don't smell anything in there. So I go back into my room. I do the same search, but I do it opposite. I open my drawers, nothing's in there. Look under the bed, look behind the bed, look somewhere else. Open my closet and everything is in flames.

• 12:27Annie Elise?

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• 13:11Annie Elise?

  Mint Mobile. And when I tell you, not only was it the best decision of my life, I now have like service in places my husband doesn't even have service, but it was so easy. It took me 15 minutes, kept my phone, kept my phone number. It was the best. So for a new wireless plan, starting at 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com/ae. That's mintmobile.com/ae. $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

• 13:50Speaker 03

  My whole closet is in flames. All of my clothes are, everything is Oh my gosh. just blazing. And I started screaming, "Oh my God, like there's a fire." And I'm like, and at this point, like everything went outside of my head of what just happened, just like I need to get this fire out. And I had my cellphone. It was just a flip phone. So I took it and I pressed send, send, send, send, send, which ended up calling my best friend Skylar. He was the last person that ever called me. So when I called him, I'm just screaming, "Call 911, my house is on fire. Please, I'm trying to put it out." Boom, I hang up. I'm running back and forth with pots and pans. I threw a pot at Cassandra, but honestly, I don't even know what she was doing at this point. I think she was just standing there watching me. But I was running back and forth to the kitchen, filling pots of water up, throwing it on the fire.

• 14:34Speaker 03

  And at this point, my whole room is filled with smoke. It's hard to breathe. She can't breathe. She's coughing. I'm coughing. Oh my gosh. So I run to the garage. The garage is right next to my room. I opened the garage door and I grab, I go back inside my room, grab her by her collar, and I drag her outside and smoke just starts rolling out of my house. So at this point, all you see is like black smoke just rolling out of the garage. And Skylar had gotten there first before the paramedics. Skylar lived like three minutes away from me. So he had gotten there first before the paramedics, before the firefighters, before anybody came. And right when she came out, right when we both came out, he pulled up with his mom and his little brother. And she just like took off running down the street barefoot. Nobody knows why.

• 15:17Annie Elise?

  Wow.

• 15:18Speaker 03

  Nobody knows.

• 15:18Annie Elise?

  That's the markings of an innocent person.

• 15:20Speaker 03

  That's what I'm saying.

• 15:21Annie Elise?

  Right?

• 15:22Speaker 03

  And he goes, what? And I go, just let her go.

• 15:25Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 15:25Speaker 03

  Just let her go. And he's like, what is, what's going on?

• 15:28Annie Elise?

  Did she have the big diaper bag with her when she took off on foot?

• 15:31Speaker 03

  I'm gonna be honest, I have no idea. She, we've never been able to, I'll, I'll say like, it's a very weird thing that she did, but we've never been able to understand like, why? Like, nobody found anything. The police like went and looked in the bushes that she, nobody could find anything. So I don't know if she called somebody.

• 15:45Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 15:45Speaker 03

  So I don't, that part I don't know of, but like, it was just a very weird thing, but it was a moment for me to talk to Skylar by myself. So like, Skylar's mom runs back inside my house, eh, just to make sure the fire is out. And I pull Skylar aside and he's like, what? I was like, just let her go. Just let her go. I don't know what's happening. And he's like, Angelique, like, what is going on? And I'm like, can I tell you something without you like, thinking different or judging me? And he's like, yeah. And I said, alright.

• 16:12Speaker 03

  I think she was trying to kill me. I think she was gonna stab me. I'm not exactly sure why. I think she set my house on fire. I think she's jealous of me. I don't know what's happening, Skylar, but, and that's literally how I'm telling him. I'm telling him so fast that his brain can't even comprehend what I'm saying. And he's looking at me like I'm crazy. And I'm like, yeah, I'm never gonna say this to anybody again. I'm never gonna tell anybody what I just said, because the way he's looking at me is like, I have 10 heads.

• 16:35Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 16:36Speaker 03

  And he goes, like, you believe me, right? And he goes, I, I want to believe you, but like, why would, why would she, like, this doesn't make any sense. Like, are you, are you, like, are you sure this is what happened? Like, he was even questioning, like, what I was saying. And I was just like, maybe I'm, maybe I'm overreacting. Maybe, maybe this didn't happen. Maybe I'm delirious. Like, maybe there's something wrong with me. And I'm like, God. So at that point, I start having contractions. So now, now after I told him, Cassandra came back. So she did come back. And now the paramedics are there, the firefighters, the police are there. My parents pull up and the fire restarted. So the cops, firefighters are back in there trying to figure out what's happening.

• 17:15Speaker 03

  I hear them talking about like a battery that may have exploded. So in my head, I'm like, maybe she didn't start this fire. Like, maybe this is all just like, there's a, there's something, like, they're gonna figure out, like, their fire investigators are there. They're gonna figure out what happened.

• 17:28Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 17:28Speaker 03

  So I'm like, okay, like, let, let everyone do their job. Let me just go ahead and worry about myself, because at this point, I'm in like, labor, because I just, the smoke, um... Made us have contractions. And I say us because she started having contractions. So her and I are both being treated by paramedics. And my mom comes over to me and she's like, hey, like, how are you feeling? Like, how did this happen? And I'm like, I don't, I don't know, just let them figure out what happened. And I go, and Cassandra's like crying. She's like, oh, my gosh, like, she's in so much pain and she's crying. And I go, Mom, just go, just go to her, like, go to her. I have Skylar. So my mom goes over and starts like holding her hand. And the paramedics are getting information from her. And this is where my mom started to catch on to things. Because everything she was telling the paramedics was different than what she told us.

• 18:13Speaker 03

  Like, her name was Cassandra Teruga. But she said her name was like Marie Teruga or something. She was like giving different like names, different addresses, different age, different, how many months she was. Like, everything wasn't adding up to what she told us earlier that day. So my mom was like, weren't you like six, seven months pregnant? Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't mean I was five, I was, I'm six, I'm like seven. So like, there were certain things that my mom was like, sitting there, starting to like, hear these. Yeah. And I'm sitting there just like trying to breathe, I have like an air, like a mask on. And I told Skylar not to tell anybody. But of course, like, we're teenagers. He ends up telling his mom. His mom tells my parents, this is all happening while we're outside. Like, it's just like a, you know, everyone's whispering.

• 18:57Speaker 03

  And all of a sudden, my mom, my dad, and Skylar's mom all give me like, a look. And I'm like, did you tell them? And he goes, Angelique, I had to, things are weird. Like, I'm feeling weird about this. Like, God forbid if this actually is real and she tried to kill you. Like, somebody has to help us. Yeah. And I look at him and I just do a big sigh of relief, like, thank you. Like, I couldn't say it. So then I get up because I'm feeling better. She's still crying. And she's also talking on the phone with somebody, saying, yeah, Angelique, what hospital are you gonna go to? Can I go to the same hospital she goes to? And I'm like, don't. Don't let her go near me, please. And so I go back inside the house because my parents are like, what is happening? And I'm like, okay, so I do the same thing I did to Skylar and I'm like, I think she was gonna kill me. She put me in my room. Sure, she put me in the middle of the kitchen, then she put me in my room.

• 19:41Speaker 03

  Something told me she was gonna kill me and I'm like trying to explain to them and I can tell they, just like Skylar, they all want to understand and they all want to believe me, but I look like I'm hysterical at this point. And the paramedics go, okay, we're taking her to the hospital. We're just grabbing her belongings. So they start grabbing all my clothes and I'm like, no, no, no, those are mine. I go, this is all hers and I grab the bag and I give them the bag and as I'm handing them the bag, I take it back. And I go, wait, there was a gift in here. And I put it on top of the counter so everybody could see and I'm explaining. She said she had this gift. It shined on the ceiling. It said, she said it had Ryland's name on it and I'm like talking and I'm talking, opening it. I put my hands in and literally all I feel is metal and when I pull my hand out, I have two large butcher knives in my hand and I dropped them on the counter.

• 20:26Speaker 03

  And I said, I told you she was going to kill me. I told you. And then I go into like this weird. I kept saying the same thing over and over and over. I told you she was gonna kill me. I told you she was gonna kill me and I just kept saying that. It was like for like an hour straight. I was like in this trance and I couldn't stop and I was just, I was staring at a wall crying.

• 20:45Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 20:45Speaker 03

  And at that point, they had already got her into the ambulance. So there was no, like going, like once, medically wise, like once you get into an ambulance, like there's no, they're gonna take you to the hospital.

• 20:56Annie Elise?

  Yeah. And then if they're gonna have law enforcement, they'll send them there.

• 20:59Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 21:00Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 21:01Speaker 03

  So that ends up happening and they take her and at this point, now my street has been shut down as an attempted murder scene. So now nobody can get in and nobody can get out.

• 21:09Annie Elise?

  Was there anything else in the bag besides the two butcher knives?

• 21:13Speaker 03

  There was disinfectant, there was scissors and there was a newborn diaper.

• 21:18Annie Elise?

  Wow. Wow.

• 21:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, it gives you chills.

• 21:22Annie Elise?

  Like I literally have the chills. I can't even imagine what was going through your mind when you had that.

• 21:28Speaker 03

  It was.

• 21:28Annie Elise?

  We're discovering all of that.

• 21:29Speaker 03

  It was surreal. It really was. And even my mom, like she'll sit there and she was just like, nobody's brains could understand like what was happening. And to be quite honest, even with all the evidence in front of me, I still didn't understand like why, like I didn't, I didn't put two and two together that she wanted to take my baby. I didn't.

• 21:47Annie Elise?

  You thought she just wanted to kill you?

• 21:48Speaker 03

  I just thought she wanted to kill me.

• 21:50Annie Elise?

  So what was your mom's reaction as you were pulling the stuff out of the bag? Was she kind of like, what?

• 21:57Speaker 03

  But the the pair, I think, I don't think the cops were there when I pulled it out. It was the paramedics. My mom's crazy. She runs out with the butcher knives and the bag into like, she runs outside because that's where everybody's at. And she goes, this was in her bag. And she's like, holding two large butcher knives. And I'm like, so the cops are like, what are you doing? And she's like, no.

• 22:19Annie Elise?

  Put down the knife lady.

• 22:22Speaker 03

  My mom's like, this was in my, in her bag. Like, so my mom is like screaming. And I was, I just stayed stuck in the house, like staring at a wall.

• 22:30Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  I do remember they tried to call Josh. And Josh was at a friend's house. So he had, I think he was drinking too, because when he had to get a ride. And I remember they wouldn't let him in. So it took two and a half hours for them to let, allow Josh to even come back. Because everything was shut down, nobody in, nobody out. And so finally, they let him in. And by the time he got to me, I was still just staring at a wall. Like, I wasn't talking, I wasn't doing anything. I wasn't talk, I, literally, the detectives tried to talk to me and I was just silent. I wouldn't talk to anybody. And then finally, like, when he came, I felt like a sense of, like, relief. And so I hugged him and then I, like, snapped out of it. It's like, I snapped out of whatever funk I was in. And I was like, let me talk to the detective. And so I start talking to the detective.

• 23:14Speaker 03

  And what sucks about it is, like, remember, this is going to be like where we talked about how this detective knew me from my, my younger childhood and has arrested me plenty of times to the point where she was questioning me.

• 23:26Annie Elise?

  Yep.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  Are you sure that's what happened?

• 23:28Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 23:29Speaker 03

  Are you positive? Do you think maybe the fire started because you were smoking weed in your room?

• 23:34Annie Elise?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 23:35Speaker 03

  Are you, are you, you don't smoke weed still? Because I, I do recall you, you know, me arresting you for smoking weed, like. And the thing is, is I didn't even remember any of that until I got a hold of my interrogation tapes and I listened to the whole thing. I thought that they, my brain wanted to think that they were on my side.

• 23:51Annie Elise?

  Of course.

• 23:52Speaker 03

  But they were like making jokes. Like, I, I've listened to my own tape and here, I can hear myself, like, I'm, I'm stuttering, I'm scared, I'm laughing because, I'm giggling because I'm nervous. But they're making me feel so uncomfortable throughout the whole investigation where they're just, because I'm being questioned. Like, I did something wrong. And. I just remember, you know, the fire investigators were in there. They were able to find the teacup candles. They ran fingerprints. Her fingerprints were on both teacup candles, which they shouldn't have been if she didn't touch them. So she did use the teacup candles to light the fire in my room and I don't. They do have some type of report that explains like how it happened. I don't exactly understand or know how it did.

• 24:34Speaker 03

  Something with the candle wax, something when she lit it. I think she may have let my computer and it exploded. I I'm not really.

• 24:40Annie Elise?

  Okay.

• 24:41Speaker 03

  Something created this boom because remember the first time I looked in the closet, there was nothing. There was though. They said it was a slow fire.

• 24:47Annie Elise?

  Okay.

• 24:47Speaker 03

  And whatever she did the second time amplified it. And so that's what caused for the fire because like it was like a maybe like four or five minute like in between that. So between that. Five minutes like that, the flames were everywhere. My whole, everything in my closet was burned down.

• 25:01Annie Elise?

  Yep.

• 25:01Speaker 03

  My mom's wedding dress that I wanted to wear when I got married. Like I lost, I lost everything in that closet.

• 25:06Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 25:06Speaker 03

  Which for me was a lot because that's like.

• 25:08Annie Elise?

  Of course.

• 25:08Speaker 03

  This is where everything was.

• 25:09Annie Elise?

  Yeah. So as the detectives and the fire investigators are all now working together, realizing like what really happened. She's transported to the hospital and what happens from there?

• 25:21Speaker 03

  So she was transported to the hospital and from my understanding. She said she was pregnant. They ran a pregnancy test. She wasn't. And I think when they like confronted her about it, she ran. So like she left the hospital.

• 25:33Annie Elise?

  Okay.

• 25:33Speaker 03

  So when the detective.

• 25:34Annie Elise?

  So she was never pregnant?

• 25:36Speaker 03

  She was never pregnant.

• 25:36Annie Elise?

  She just faked the whole.

• 25:37Speaker 03

  She faked the whole pregnancy.

• 25:38Annie Elise?

  Okay. Was she wearing a fake belly or anything like that?

• 25:41Speaker 03

  No, she, she was a very, very skinny girl. She was probably about like five, eight. So she was a little bit taller. Um, she had really large hips and she had a really nice figure to be quite honest. She had big hips and a big butt. And but super, super tiny. So she would always like lean like this and she would constantly go like that. So like a belly would kind of be there.

• 26:00Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 26:00Speaker 03

  But my mom told me, because I remember I asked too. You know, she doesn't look that pregnant though. Like she doesn't look six or seven months. I'm almost like women carry differently. Like there's some women that even don't even.

• 26:11Annie Elise?

  You never see it.

• 26:11Speaker 03

  You never see it.

• 26:12Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 26:13Speaker 03

  And I didn't show because I was, you know, coming off drugs. I didn't show till I was like six months. Like I didn't actually, I had, I was trying to gain all that weight back. So. It it made, it made sense. But yeah, I know. Everybody just thought that she was pregnant.

• 26:26Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 26:26Speaker 03

  And because she told everybody for months that she was.

• 26:28Annie Elise?

  Yeah. So she takes this test. She's not pregnant. She flees the hospital.

• 26:32Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 26:33Annie Elise?

  And what happens then?

• 26:34Speaker 03

  Um, the next day I find out that she left the hospital and I was not okay with everything. I woke up feeling terrified because now it's like, somebody had to tell me that like, this was a plan to take my baby.

• 26:46Annie Elise?

  Mm hmm.

• 26:47Speaker 03

  So like my mom ended up having to be the one to like, kind of reel me in and make me understand. Like, Angelique, I don't think this was about killing you. I think this was about your ba- I think this was about Ryland. Like, I think she was going to take Ryland. And then it all started to like, it was like a full circle where I was like, this happened, that happened. I was like, oh, my God, like, I think you're right.

• 27:05Annie Elise?

  Mm hmm.

• 27:06Speaker 03

  It made more sense, like the C-section talk, all of that.

• 27:08Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 27:09Speaker 03

  So then, one thing about me is I'm a really good investigator, really good. It's actually ridiculous. So I take things into my own hands because I don't think the cops are taking me seriously. So I end up finding information about her that other people didn't, like, that the cops didn't even find. Like, I found out that she was a runaway from years ago and they said she was a danger to herself and to society. She was schizophrenic, manic depressive, bipolar, and at this time, it was called multi-personality syndrome, but now it's called DID, um, which is, I think because it was really hard to diagnose multi-personality syndrome. It was, it was something along the lines, but it was in the news. Um, I found like an article and like, the fact that they didn't find any of this was crazy.

• 27:53Speaker 03

  Um, I had, and what makes this even wilder is that she, I found out, I found a picture of her where she was in a picture with somebody that I knew from middle school. So I had to remember, where did I know this girl from middle school? How, or I, I don't think she went to school with us, but she lived in Chandler. Like, where do I know her from? And it was from one of my ex-boyfriends, Chris. He had dated her. So now I'm calling Chris. Chris, what was that girl's name? This is her picture. Oh, that's Marty. Okay, where does Marty live? She lives in Chandler. Okay, can I have her number? Can I have her Facebook? Like, he gives me her information. I call her and I just load it all on her. I know you don't know me, but something happened. There's a girl in a picture with you. Her name is Cassandra Teruga. I think she tried to hurt me. Can you please help me? Like,

• 28:38Speaker 03

  how do you know this girl? And she was like, what happened? And I was like, I, she came to my house with butcher knives. Like, I'm kind of word vomiting.

• 28:43Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 28:44Speaker 03

  And she goes, that's my cousin.

• 28:45Annie Elise?

  Ah.

• 28:46Speaker 03

  And I'm like-

• 28:48Speaker 03

  Your cousin? She goes, "That is my cousin." And I'm like, "Okay, I'm so sorry." Like, I didn't, like, now I feel like I stepped into a territory like where I'm talking to family and like, "That can't be good." But she was like, "No." She's like, "I believe you." And I was like, "Wait, what?" She goes, "I believe you." And I was like, "Why?" She goes, "Because Cassandra is not like mentally..." First off, she's not like a mentally stable person. She also has a lot of things in her life like that happened. Like, she kinda, she didn't really go into detail. She just said like, "I believe you." And she goes, I go, "Does she actually have a sister that lives out here?" She goes, "No, she does." She's like, "But the sister is out of the country right now." So she has no idea what's going on. So the sister wasn't, hasn't been home. Then I said, "Does she have a brother?" "Yeah, she has a brother, but he doesn't live here." "What do you mean, he doesn't live here?" "She got dropped off by her brother."

• 29:32Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 29:33Speaker 03

  Who was it that dropped her off?

• 29:34Annie Elise?

  Right.

• 29:34Speaker 03

  Because my brother saw a man in-

• 29:36Annie Elise?

  In the truck.

• 29:37Speaker 03

  In the, in the, in the van.

• 29:38Annie Elise?

  Oh, the van.

• 29:38Speaker 03

  The white van, yeah.

• 29:39Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 29:40Speaker 03

  So like, all of these things where I was kind of trying to understand and not really knowing what was happening. Then the, I give all the information to the cops. I give them Marty's phone number. I give them the sister's address. I give them everything. And they're like, "Wow, how did you find all of this?" And I'm like, "I don't know."

• 29:54Annie Elise?

  I like, "I did a little research."

• 29:56Speaker 03

  Thank you. That's all. I'm like, "I don't know, a quick, you know, Google search."

• 29:59Annie Elise?

  Yeah, gosh. So then what, was she ever arrested?

• 30:03Speaker 03

  No. Um, after that, I actually got brought down to the police station and they asked me if I would be willing to call her, because at this point, they said they don't, no one's explained to her that we found the butcher. She doesn't know any of this. So we're a step ahead of her. Now they're starting to believe me.

• 30:19Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  So now they're like, "Can you come down to the police station and we put a, like, we put a wire on you and we'll have you call and pretend like you have no idea what's going on? And we need you to get her to admit that she was in your room before the fire started." And I'm like, "Okay." And I'm like, "Do I, like, do I have to?" They're like, "This would really help our investigation." Like, she, I think she'll trust you. And I'm like, "Okay." So I get brought down to the station. They hook me up and they have me call. So I call and I'm like, "Hey Cassandra." And she's like, "Hi." And I'm like, "What happened the other night? Like, how are you feeling? I heard you went to the hospital. Like, are you okay?" And she was like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm fine." And I was like, "Okay." She's like, "What about you?" And I'm like, no, I'm good. I'm good. Like, you know, the contractions stopped. I said, you know, I was just more worried about you.

• 31:02Speaker 03

  And I was like, this whole thing is crazy. And they're like, yeah, they wrote down questions for me to like, ask. Um, which are all like in the police report, which I found. It's like all these questions that they wanted me to ask. And so I had, I was supposed to narrow down her being in the room alone. So then I had to go into like, this is crazy. Like, how did that fire start? I don't know how that fire started. Then I was like, they told me that you said we were smoking weed in my room. Like, that's all, like, we weren't smoking weed. She goes, I would never say that. And I'm like, okay. And I'm like, well, you were in the room though, right? Like before the fire started, like you were physically there by yourself. And then she was like, yeah. And then all of a sudden you hear, don't talk to them, like a man's voice, get off the phone and then click.

• 31:46Annie Elise?

  Oh, wow.

• 31:47Speaker 03

  And then that was it. That was the last time I ever talked to her. It was a lot, but I was able to give them, like, they were able to at least get that to, I think, to kind of not put me, because she said that we were smoking weed and that we ashed in like my closet or something. And I'm like, girl, nine months pregnant, like, what do you mean? So that's what she told them. And that's why they were questioning me about it. And so I just had to get them to like, understand that it wasn't me. So after that, I end up going into labor. Um, I find out I have preeclampsia and I am in the hospital for like seven days. Um, my room is shut, like basically I'm put down as Jane Doe. Uh, police are outside my room. Uh, nobody can come in unless they have like a special code.

• 32:26Annie Elise?

  So if they knew that there was such a danger and a risk there, why wasn't she arrested for anything?

• 32:32Speaker 03

  So they couldn't find her after she left the hospital. Nobody knew where she was at.

• 32:35Annie Elise?

  Okay.

• 32:36Speaker 03

  So nobody could find out where she was. The sister was in

• 32:40Annie Elise?

  Different country.

• 32:40Speaker 03

  Different country. Nobody knew. And so, and I remember when I went into the hospital, I didn't talk to the cops at all. Like, there was a cop stationed outside of like my door. Um, but like, I'd never, I'd never talked to anybody. And I think it was just best that way. I ended up going through a really traumatic birth, like that ended with me, you know, um, I ended up like bleeding out and passed out in the bathroom in a puddle of my own blood.

• 33:00Annie Elise?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 33:01Speaker 03

  And I had to have like a blood transfusion and Ryland, you know, when Ryland was, like when I was giving birth to him, like he was faced the Opposite way. So his heart rate was dropped like it was a very honestly traumatic birth and they were trying really hard not to give me a C-section. Because of what I went through. But like we both came out with infections. My water broke too early. Like there is.

• 33:20Annie Elise?

  A lot.

• 33:21Speaker 03

  So yeah, it was a lot on my body and on my my myself. So by the time I gave birth, it was February twenty sixth, so ten days from the incident. I was released from the hospital about four or five days later. So I went home. And I just had nightmares like for days like and I I didn't leave my house like I stayed literally on a couch for like days and days and days. Because I was scared. I was terrified. Now I have this baby that she wanted like what's gonna happen? And then I think it was March fourth. I think it was March fourth or March fifth. In the middle of the night, it was like midnight. My mom came into my room and she was waking me up and I was like, what? She was like, it's Detective Turner. And I was like, okay, so I get on the phone and she goes, we have her. And I'm like, what?

• 34:05Speaker 03

  So then I start to wake up and I'm like, what do you what do you mean? She's like, we have her. And I'm like, Cassandra? And she's like, yes. And she's like, we have the confession. She confessed everything. She was. She was gonna kill you, perform a C-section. The fire was never meant to be a part of this, but it played a role. So like when she couldn't kill you the first time because you turned around. She was hoping that the fire was gonna like overcome you with smoke and you would pass out. And then she'd be able to perform the C-section and let the body burn with all of the evidence.

• 34:33Annie Elise?

  Oh, my god.

• 34:34Speaker 03

  It was a very dialogical plan, specifically because. The fire was never meant to be.

• 34:40Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 34:40Speaker 03

  A part of it.

• 34:41Annie Elise?

  She just was trying to improvise at that.

• 34:42Speaker 03

  She was trying to improvise.

• 34:44Annie Elise?

  What was it like hearing that and getting the validation, but also hearing the details of what she was planning?

• 34:50Speaker 03

  I slept for the first time that night.

• 34:52Annie Elise?

  Wow.

• 34:52Speaker 03

  I slept for the first time that night without waking up and it was a really. It felt like I wasn't crazy because I felt like everybody thought I was crazy. I'll be quite honest with you. My not so close friends, like people, just acquaintances that were finding out. Thought I was attention seeking, thought I was lying. I had family members that didn't even check on me, didn't care, thought I was just exaggerating the whole thing. So there was a moment where I wondered, like, am I ex- and as time goes by, I was like, was it really that bad?

• 35:19Annie Elise?

  Right, because everything, you become a little bit desensitized to it and you look back and you don't remember that feeling in the moment. And so it's easy to be like, was I overreacting? Maybe I was, yeah, I totally understand what you mean.

• 35:30Speaker 03

  So then, the next day, it came out on the news nationwide. And that's when all the I'm sorries came. That's when all the, I'm so sorry I didn't believe you. I'm sorry that I wasn't there for you. I'm sorry that you went through this alone, like.

• 35:44Annie Elise?

  Have you ever heard her confession?

• 35:46Speaker 03

  Unfortunately, the first time I ever heard it was on the ID channel and they didn't tell me. So when it aired, that was my first time ever hearing her confession and I, I vomited. Because I had never, nobody had ever given me the opportunity to listen to it. My case was handled, was very, it was handled very incorrectly. I didn't get a lot of tools. I didn't get anything. So it was, I felt like, when I heard it on the ID channel though, it was very eerie. And it's also like the ID channel, you know, puts like a little bit of dramatic, like, music behind it and stuff. But I remember sitting there, watching the ID channel of like the episode, and then all of a sudden it goes, they play actors in it and stuff. It was called frenemies. And so like, it was like actors, actresses that are playing like me and Cassandra. And then all of a

• 36:31Speaker 03

  sudden at the end, it says actual footage and like, it's her voice. And she's like, I was just gonna stab her, just a couple of times. I wasn't trying to kill. But if that's what I had to do, then yeah, I guess I was gonna have to.

• 36:46Annie Elise?

  Wow. Oh my god. So, but then, the most frustrating part in all of this, she didn't end up getting charged with attempted murder, correct?

• 36:56Speaker 03

  That is correct.

• 36:57Annie Elise?

  And can you explain why that happened? Despite a confession, the knives, the equipment, like, everything.

• 37:04Speaker 03

  Fingerprints.

• 37:05Annie Elise?

  Fingerprints, everything. She was not charged with attempted murder.

• 37:08Speaker 03

  Also, one thing I did want to say was, the only reason they caught her, so I did find out, the only reason they caught her was because Marty called the sister when she came back into the country and said, you need to, I need to tell you what's been happening since you've been gone. And when her sister heard, she called 911 and said, come get my sister, she's here at the house.

• 37:25Annie Elise?

  Good.

• 37:26Speaker 03

  So that, the sister was the reason why I was able, like, why we were able to even get her. Now, during the whole legal process,

• 37:35Speaker 03

  It was, I don't remember talking to one person. It was like a whole year had went by and I just dissociated the whole year because I was trying to learn to be a new mom. And what sucks about this is that like, you're a mom. You know, your first, you know, you have your first baby, you have all these like moments that you think like that things are gonna happen. As a first mom, you're like, oh, I'm gonna give birth this way. This is what's gonna hap- you're gonna come home in this, we're gonna do this, you're gonna have, you know, you, you plan out like what this is all gonna look like. I didn't get that. I feel like if anything, um, she took that away from me because I was in so much pain. She did. And I didn't know how to even parent at that point. Like, I was just happy that like I had this miracle, but she took everything, she took

• 38:19Speaker 03

  my birth away from me, she took my son's first year from me. Like, I just dissociated throughout the whole thing. I don't remember his first steps, I don't remember what his first baby food was, I don't even remember what his first word was, cuz I was just trying to survive. And so, I, I do remember not talking to everybody, I've talked to, I'm talking to one person at all. And I remember asking my parents, like, had anyone ever called us? Like, I know I was in like a such, such like an association at that, at that point, like, did anything happen that I don't remember? And my parents said they don't remember anybody ever like trying to contact us until January.

• 38:58Annie Elise?

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• 39:43Annie Elise?

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• 40:27Annie Elise?

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• 41:12Speaker 03

  It might have been the beginning of February of 2012. And a year had went by and they finally called and stated that they wanted to talk about a plea bargain. And I was like, wait, why? I was like, what?

• 41:26Annie Elise?

  Why, why would you do that if she, you have her confession, you have this? Like, why do you need to do a plea bargain? Yeah.

• 41:31Speaker 03

  Exactly. I was like, I don't get it. Like, why is this not a strong enough case? And they said, well, our biggest part of the case was the confession. And I was like, okay. And they were like, the cops didn't read her her Miranda rights at the time of her confession. So that has been thrown out.

• 41:44Annie Elise?

  Oh, my God.

• 41:44Speaker 03

  And as of right now, it's not illegal to carry two butcher knives in the state of Arizona. You can carry, I said, so I can walk down the street with knives? And nobody was saying, they said technically, yes.

• 41:53Annie Elise?

  So because the cops didn't do their job with reading her the Miranda rights, the confession is basically null and void. There's no other evidence that proves that there was attempted murder happening. There was, yeah, the fire incident, but you can't use her confession. She's probably not going to re-confess, I would imagine. And so what were they able to charge her with?

• 42:14Speaker 03

  Arson. They scared me into a plea bargain though, because they said, we can go to trial if that's what you want. They said, but

• 42:21Annie Elise?

  They were able to show the confession.

• 42:22Speaker 03

  They said, there's a very high chance that she'll walk. They said, so what we're presenting to you is seven and a half years. Um, technically eight and a half with her time served because she's been in there for a year. But we're gonna, they did give me the option. They said, we're gonna give you the option if you want to send her to uh, prison, or if you want to send her to ASH, which is called the Arizona State Hospital.

• 42:43Annie Elise?

  Okay.

• 42:44Speaker 03

  And so they gave me a few days to think about it and I came back with my decision and it was a really tough one. But at this point, I had been presented that she was mentally ill, that she had all these different, you know, things going on. And that, you know, I knew that one day she would get out and I didn't want her to reoffend to anybody. So I wanted her to get the help that she needed. So when I came back, I said, I want to send her to ASH so that she can get the proper medication, get her life back. And when she gets released, she doesn't do this to anybody again. So that's where I sent her.

• 43:16Annie Elise?

  I have to say, I am blown away by like, the way you're able to rationalize things and think things through at such a young age. Honestly, it's like making me emotional thinking about it. No, because even how you had said when you had found out you were pregnant, that within 24 hours, you decided you wanted to get clean and be on a good path and be there for your child. And then now having the compassion for somebody and their mental wellbeing and being like, I'd rather her not reoffend in the future. Whereas if it were me, even still today, I'd probably like throw her in prison, the hardest one you possibly could, put her in Alcatraz, like throw away the key. But to like, be that young and have such compassion to be like, I don't want her to reoffend and I want her

• 43:56Annie Elise?

  to get the help that she needs. That is so incredibly big of you. It really is. And you, if you're not, you should absolutely be proud of yourself for that. Because I don't think a lot of people would have made that choice.

• 44:06Speaker 03

  I found that out a lot on social media where people are like, you're not saying that I'm too nice. Cause they didn't say that. They said the same thing that you said, like the fact that you were that age and even going through a trauma, you rationalized like that type of way.

• 44:19Annie Elise?

  And you don't want her to reoffend and hurt somebody else. You're not even thinking about your yourself and your own vindication and the consequences for what she did to you, but you're thinking, your forward thinking being like, I don't want somebody else to go through this. And that is a huge, huge thing.

• 44:34Speaker 03

  Thank you. I really appreciate that. That's something that I really do. And it's really nice hearing like someone say that just because like when I go to a lot of places, like I don't really talk about it too much. So, thank you. I appreciate that.

• 44:44Annie Elise?

  Yeah, of course.

• 44:45Speaker 03

  It was, um, it was, it was, I felt, I felt proud about that moment. Um, I was able to go to court after and like, they gave me the opportunity to like talk on my own behalf. And I wrote this long letter and I remember it took me forever to talk because I kept crying. Every single time I, I, I, I, I, you know, studied that letter, you know, when you're gonna go watch your perpetrator get, you know, sentenced, you're like, okay, let me just, you know, read this to everybody, my, my family, my mom, my dad, everybody. And I was like, yes, I got this. The minute I stepped in that courtroom, it was like, ugh.

• 45:18Annie Elise?

  Of course, of course.

• 45:19Speaker 03

  Yes, like all the emotions came back.

• 45:20Annie Elise?

  And did you see her?

• 45:21Speaker 03

  I did see her. I read her, what I stated, and at the very end, I stated, you know, that I forgave her because I don't want to have hatred in my heart. I don't want to live my life hating somebody for somebody that was mentally ill or somebody that made a mistake. And, you know, I said, like, you know, I don't like you. I don't like you. Every bone in my body tells me to hate you. And I said, but I refuse to allow myself to have hatred. And I said, I hope that you take what I'm doing to you by sending you to Ash. I hope you remember in the back of your mind, when you're released, that I did that, that I showed compassion and love and understanding and forgiveness, because you're not going to see that from a lot of people. So like, take that and please like do better. And I remember the judge looking at her and telling her like, Cassandra, this is now

• 46:05Speaker 03

  your opportunity to talk. Do you have anything that you want to say to this young woman? And she...

• 46:12Speaker 03

  She stood up, looked at me, looked at the judge and said, no, your honor, and sat back down.

• 46:18Annie Elise?

  You're like, I take it all back, send her to the max.

• 46:23Annie Elise?

  Fuck that, let's take that all back. Send her to the chair.

• 46:27Speaker 03

  I literally was, I remember like my brain was like.

• 46:32Annie Elise?

  Are you for real?

• 46:33Speaker 03

  Yes, the, the judge even said, again, Cassandra, I'm going to repeat this one more time. This is your last time you will ever see this woman. Do you have anything that you want to say? No.

• 46:46Annie Elise?

  Wow.

• 46:47Speaker 03

  It was, and the way that she did it, dude, it was so, it was the most eerie moment, I think, even more than her confession, it was the, it was a smirk.

• 46:54Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 46:55Speaker 03

  It was the.

• 46:56Annie Elise?

  No remorse.

• 46:56Speaker 03

  No remorse. And that made me feel like, that made me feel like shit, because I was just like, I just.

• 47:01Annie Elise?

  Poured my heart out.

• 47:02Speaker 03

  I just poured my heart out to you, I, I can't believe that.

• 47:05Annie Elise?

  Oh, my God.

• 47:06Speaker 03

  So I remember walking out of there, I was just like, I am so happy this is over, but like, this is crazy. And I remember giving my, like, giving, I remember being outside, the news reporters were out there, it was like lights flashing everywhere, and they were like, what did you say? What did you do? Blah, blah, blah. And I was like, here you go, here's the letter. Analyze it, take video.

• 47:24Annie Elise?

  Do what you want to do.

• 47:25Speaker 03

  Do what you want to do with it.

• 47:26Annie Elise?

  I'm done.

• 47:26Speaker 03

  This is what I said, I'm done, we're, we're done, I'm happy this is over. I'm going to go be a mom to my son and hopefully she gets better. And like, that was the, that was like the end of it, I mean, for the most part.

• 47:35Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 47:36Speaker 03

  Um, until I went back home, because Florence is like a good hour away from us, so that's like where all this was done. I live in Maricopa, and so when I got back home, like, news reporters were outside of my house, like, everybody wanted to have an interview with me.

• 47:48Annie Elise?

  Of course.

• 47:48Speaker 03

  And I just stayed isolated for like, after like, two weeks, it kind of just like slowed, everybody kind of left me alone.

• 47:54Annie Elise?

  So she went to ASH for, what was it, seven and a half more years?

• 47:58Speaker 03

  Yes, so her date of release, she went February. Something. I don't remember what it was, but her release was August, like first or something, which equaled like seven and a half years from that sentence. So technically, technically eight and a half though, because she served the one year.

• 48:12Annie Elise?

  And what year was that?

• 48:13Speaker 03

  Two thousand and eleven is when it happened.

• 48:15Annie Elise?

  So she, she's out.

• 48:16Speaker 03

  She's out.

• 48:17Annie Elise?

  She's been out.

• 48:17Speaker 03

  She's been out.

• 48:18Annie Elise?

  Have you had, had you know anything about where she's at, what she's doing?

• 48:21Speaker 03

  I went to her release.

• 48:23Annie Elise?

  Oh, okay. And what was that like?

• 48:25Speaker 03

  That was very interesting. Um, I wasn't gonna go. Um, I was, in twenty nineteen, I had like forgotten that like she was gonna be released. I became a surrogate, so.

• 48:37Annie Elise?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 48:37Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 48:38Annie Elise?

  That's incredible.

• 48:38Speaker 03

  Thank you. Thank you. I really wanted to find some sense of like, purpose of like me allowing somebody like to have, it felt very therapeutic. Um, I had originally done it because one of my best friends couldn't have a baby, and I watched her have miscarriage after miscarriage and it broke my heart. So we always joked around that like, after I was done having kids, I'd be her surrogate. She ended up having a baby. It was a man. It wasn't her. So, um, after I was done having my own kids, I was like, I still wanna do this. Like, I feel like this would be such a great purpose in life, like to be able to give somebody something that they can't have, because, remember, I'm under the terms that Cassandra can't have, like she hadn't, they tried giving me this story that she had like hysterical pregnancies and she couldn't have babies. This is why her brain, you know, she thought I was carrying her child. Like, they had painted this whole picture that like,

• 49:23Speaker 03

  she was a woman who just couldn't have a baby and just lingered on to me and thought I was carrying hers. So I was like, you know, there's women out here that can't have their own children. Like, if I could have a baby for somebody with their DNA and give it to them, like, I don't know, like, it feels like a sense of healing.

• 49:36Annie Elise?

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:37Speaker 03

  And so I did it, and I ended up being pregnant. And so I wasn't gonna, I was pregnant with a surrogacy baby.

• 49:43Annie Elise?

  You were pregnant at her release?

• 49:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 49:45Annie Elise?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 49:46Speaker 03

  Yes. And I didn't, I didn't, I didn't anticipate that happening, because we had failed to, like a transfer prior, so I should have like, probably had given birth at that time, but instead I was going through the pregnancy. And so I told myself I wasn't gonna go. I literally, they called me, do you wanna come? No, I don't wanna go. I'll, I'll listen. But then, three days before, I had decided that like, no, that's not who I am. Like, that's not who I am. I'm gonna go there. This is gonna be a sense of empowerment. This is me taking my story back. This is me taking everything back and like, owner, I, I don't know, I felt like a certain way, like I had to be there.

• 50:17Annie Elise?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:18Speaker 03

  So three days prior, I called them and I was, I don't know who I called, but I was like, I'm going. I'm gonna bring my dad and my, my husband and like, we're all gonna go. And so we went. We went to Ash. It looked like a prison. Um, it's kinda scary. There was a- It was kind of scary in there, I'm gonna be quite honest, because there's a lot of, um, there's a lot of mental, uh, I don't want to say mentally insane, well, yeah, it would be

• 50:38Annie Elise?

  Mentally unstable and struggling people. Unstable. Absolutely. That is a scary situation to be in.

• 50:44Speaker 03

  It is, because like I was walking by and like, they were outside and like, I could tell they were having like, some type of like recess area and it was just, it was scary.

• 50:51Annie Elise?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:51Speaker 03

  So when I got in there, it was just like a prison though, like you go in there, you, you know, they take your bags, you get, you know, they check you and everything. And then you sit in this little courtroom and you can hear everybody's case, because there's a bunch of people that have these cases that day. So then Cassandra's, this lady who's been like helping me and prepping me through everything, comes and sits next to me, I don't remember her name. But she was there during the trial. So she had known me and like,

• 51:16Annie Elise?

  She was a part of it.

• 51:16Speaker 03

  She was a part of it. So she came there and she was like, you know, do you, do you want to speak? Like, you don't have to, you can, you don't, like, you can just watch, like, whatever you want. And I was like, no, I, I came here, I want to speak and I don't know what I'm gonna say. I went there with nothing, like, no paper, just went there to pour my heart out. And to, essentially, I wanted, in Ash, the way that it works is like, if they believe she's still mentally unstable, they can keep her.

• 51:39Annie Elise?

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:39Speaker 03

  And I don't believe that she was mentally stable. Every six months, they, in Ash, they do a reporting where they do like, they bring her upon the board. And she's supposed to be presented with what medication she has, if it's working, what's not working. I stay on top of all of those. So every six months, I get all that stuff. And not once has it ever lasted longer than like fifteen seconds.

• 51:59Annie Elise?

  Wow.

• 52:00Speaker 03

  Because she's mentally not stable.

• 52:02Annie Elise?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 52:02Speaker 03

  So the goal was that if she was, if they ever did deem that she was mentally stable within her sentencing, she would spend the rest of it in prison. That was our, our plea agreement. So every time six months came, she would go upon the board, they'd say she's mentally unstable, none of the medication's working, let's try something different. So that kept happening, kept happening. And then magically, like, two months before her release, she's magically better.

• 52:25Annie Elise?

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:25Speaker 03

  And I was like, no, she is not better. You can't, like, that is some bullshit, like, I'm not gonna, you're not gonna tell me that she's better, she's not, like,

• 52:32Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 52:32Speaker 03

  Just three months ago, you guys deemed that she wasn't.

• 52:34Annie Elise?

  Or she was faking being unwell the whole time, so that she wouldn't have to spend the remainder of her sentence in prison.

• 52:39Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 52:40Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 52:40Speaker 03

  That's what I was convinced, very manipulative. So I went there with like, no, I'm not here to cry. I'm here to fight because I'm not gonna, I'll be damned if she's gonna not hear what I have to say. And I'm not gonna be, and I'll be damned if I'm not gonna fight for mine and my son's safety.

• 52:54Annie Elise?

  Yep.

• 52:55Speaker 03

  So I went there and I was, I was pissed. So I went upon, I was mad. And then I looked at her and I felt like a gummy bear. I was like, mm.

• 53:03Annie Elise?

  No, no.

• 53:05Speaker 03

  So I had to like, take a second turnaround. I was like, can I please not look at the, like, look at my perpetrator? Can I please turn around? So like, I turned around and talked. And then when, in the middle of me talking, I don't remember exactly what I said, but I was very passionate, very passionate. When I felt comfortable enough, then I turned around and I said, I'm not scared of you and I want you to realize that. I am not scared of you, but I have a son that I need to protect and like, what you did is not okay. And you sitting there thinking that you're better when you're not is not okay. Like, you know, you may have everybody else fooled, but you don't have me fooled. And I looked at the, you know, the people, like the panel of, I don't know what they're called, because it wouldn't, there was like five or six of them.

• 53:41Annie Elise?

  The people who are responsible for the decision?

• 53:43Speaker 03

  Yes. And I remember looking at them and I said, like, I looked at the woman and I said, could you imagine being pregnant and now was having your baby cut out of you? Like, could you imagine this? I said, but the thing is, is that she's not in there for that. She's in there for arson. But it did matter. Like, that mattered. That was, it's about it. And so I do remember when they were about to make their decision, the lady, like, they all started like, making their decisions. And the lady stood up and she goes, did you guys all not hear what this young woman has said? Did you guys not see how much courage she had to stand in front of us and say this? I don't agree. I'm calling a recess. We need to go to the back and talk.

• 54:18Annie Elise?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 54:19Speaker 03

  It was so crazy. The lady that I was with goes, I have worked here for so long and I've never seen that happen before. This has never happened. She goes, they've never went to the back to go talk or, you know, whatever. And so they did like a 30 minute recess and I remember going into the bathroom and I was like, about to vomit. And I, I had a full on panic attack. Like, I couldn't breathe. I was literally like, like, holding on to the sink and I remember screaming on the top of my lungs because it just, everything hurt. Everything hurt inside of me. And I was pregnant. I was pregnant too. So it was just like a whole surreal moment. And when I went back in, she was outvoted. And she still fought for me, though. So they were, they released her with nothing.

• 55:03Speaker 03

  Just go out, live your life.

• 55:05Annie Elise?

  Figure out your life.

• 55:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, figure out your life. No, nothing. Um, like, nobody's gonna check on you. Nobody's gonna make sure you're taking your medication. But the lady, whoever it was that lady was, she was able to get them to at least allow, like, for them, for somebody to check on her. She had, like, now she had stipulations when she got out, like, that she had to go to some type of counseling and they had to make sure she was taking her medication, which was only gonna go on for a year, but it was better than nothing. She had fought as hard as she could have fought.

• 55:31Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 55:32Speaker 03

  For me, and that meant a lot.

• 55:33Annie Elise?

  So Cassandra's out right now?

• 55:35Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:35Annie Elise?

  And have you, you don't know what she's doing or where she's at? Have you followed along closely to try to, like, keep tabs on her?

• 55:41Speaker 03

  Um, people have told me things about her. So she lives like an hour away from me.

• 55:45Annie Elise?

  That's way too close for comfort.

• 55:46Speaker 03

  Way too close for comfort. She lives, like, very, very close to, like, my brother-in-law, like, not even, like, six or seven minutes away from his house.

• 55:52Annie Elise?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 55:53Speaker 03

  And I know where she works. Like, I know all these certain things about her, but I just don't like, I don't poke the bear. I don't tell people where she is. I don't, I just feel like, cause like, when I started to become more public on, like, you know, TikTok and Instagram and telling my story and explaining things, it got kind of scary because I don't want her to try to come back after me or be upset.

• 56:12Annie Elise?

  Let me just stay in my bubble. You stay away from me. I'm living my life.

• 56:16Speaker 03

  Exactly. And I never say anything bad. And I always say that, like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say anything bad about her. All I'm gonna do is tell you guys the truth. About what happened, because this is not her story. This is mine. And I am allowed to take control of my own story and tell it how I, how it did happen. Not even how I think it happened. It happened like this.

• 56:31Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 56:32Speaker 03

  And so, you know, I don't want, she could be mad about it, but, you know, she hasn't, came up to me, I've, she's had, like, family members have, and.

• 56:39Annie Elise?

  Her family members have come to you?

• 56:41Speaker 03

  Her husband's family members, because they didn't, she got married, and that's a whole other dynamic. Like, I heard that she got married, um, she had a baby. The baby got taken away by CPS and the family members all found me because she had not told her husband or any of their family that she was in, asked for what she was in there for.

• 56:58Annie Elise?

  Oh.

• 56:58Speaker 03

  So things started, when I started becoming more public, they were like, is this true? And I'm like, it's true. And I said, they're like, can you talk to her husband? I said, absolutely not.

• 57:06Annie Elise?

  Yeah, no way.

• 57:07Speaker 03

  I will not do that. I said, if her husband wants to watch my stuff, which I'm sure she has watched.

• 57:11Annie Elise?

  Yep.

• 57:11Speaker 03

  He is more than welcome to.

• 57:12Annie Elise?

  He can get the story.

• 57:13Speaker 03

  Exactly. But I will not talk and I will not tell him anything because I will not be the reason why anything happens in her life. That's, she, this is her consequences of what she did.

• 57:22Annie Elise?

  Yep.

• 57:22Speaker 03

  And I don't want to be involved.

• 57:23Annie Elise?

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• 58:08Annie Elise?

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• 58:46Speaker 03

  So right after sentencing, um, I don't know if you ever followed, in 2020, do you remember when like Save Our Children's came out?

• 58:54Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 58:54Speaker 03

  So hashtag Save Our Children's came out. Right before that happened, I had gone to the release and then I decided, you know what? I don't know anything about my case. I know nothing about it. I never wanted to. I do remember though, I did an article with Inmaricopa, which is just like my local like newspaper. And I remember like I was telling, like we just did like a brief article when the ID Channel was coming out and he had grabbed the police report and some of the interrogation tapes and he had told me and he gave it to me, the police report and said, when you're ready one day. You should read this, he says, because I think you were lied to. He says, I don't think you know your story the way that you think you know it. And I was like, excuse me? Like, I was insulted. Like, what do you mean, I don't know my story?

• 59:38Speaker 03

  He's like, I wrote this how you wanted, he said, but I want you to know, like, there's stuff in here that you don't know about. And you want to know what I did with it? I shredded it.

• 59:46Annie Elise?

  Oh, my God.

• 59:46Speaker 03

  I didn't want to know.

• 59:47Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 59:47Speaker 03

  But that always stayed with me. So when she got released, it brought all those wounds back up. And I was like, you know what? I'm ready. Like, I feel like I'm in, I just watched her get released. Like, I feel like I'm in a point in, like, time in my life where I can do this.

• 1:00:00Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:00Speaker 03

  So I went down to the police station, I grabbed everything. I said, I want everything on my case. I want the police report, I want the interrogation tapes, I want anything you can give me to get me to understand. So they released everything to me and I went down. It was, her confession interrogation tape is like three hours. And I didn't have a CD player in my house, so I had to put it in my car. So I drove around my town for three hours.

• 1:00:21Annie Elise?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:00:22Speaker 03

  Listening to her talk about what she, how, like, just like, obviously, they ask, you know, certain questions, but she, like, bullshitted through the whole thing for a very long time. And so after, like, when it gets down to, like, the last, like, forty-five minutes or, like, an hour, she, like, they're pissed, like, the detective, then fire investigator, they're like, listen, we don't give a fuck what happens to you. Like, you want to keep playing games, you don't want to say what's going on, like, that's fine. Like, we're just going to book you right now. You can deal with, like, everybody else later. And then she decides to start talking. So when they start getting her to talk, she starts talking about, you know, how she is a part of a gang and how she was involved with the gang leader. His name was, I forgot his name, it's in the police report, I think it might be Edward. Edwin was never her husband, all of that was a lie.

• 1:01:07Speaker 03

  It was a guy that she used to like at high school, but he was never real. But who was the people that she was talking to all the time? She was talking to this guy, the gang leader. They ask, how did you meet Angelique? Like, how did you guys, how did you come about with Angelique being the person that you wanted to choose to do this for? Like, to kill her? And she goes, well, Hannah. She goes, well, what do you mean? She was like, Hannah introduced us and I told him, I met this girl. She's a pregnant person out here and he said that she would be perfect. That, you know, for me to become friends with her and when the time was right, we would, we would execute our plan. And the way she talks about it, though, in this confession is like, we normally... Like she talks about like they've done this before.

• 1:01:48Speaker 03

  Um, she talks about how much money she would get for it. She talks about how um, there was a buyer waiting across the border in Mexico for them.

• 1:01:55Annie Elise?

  This wasn't about her trying to steal your child for herself because she was going through something mentally and thought either your baby was her hers, or she was so devastated that she couldn't have her own child. It was strictly a transaction?

• 1:02:08Speaker 03

  It was a transaction. She was gonna get paid and she was gonna stay in Mexico and not come back.

• 1:02:13Annie Elise?

  Wow.

• 1:02:14Speaker 03

  And the thought, when I heard that, like I have a recording on my phone of it. And I remember like when I'm recording, I'm recording it for my best friend because like when I, like in certain parts, I would record certain things. She's like, do you want me to sit with you? And I'm like, no, I need to do this by myself. Like, let me be by myself, but I'll record things for you. And I'm sitting there and I'm listening to it and you can see, like you, you see like my CD player, like my car. And you see my hands start to shaking. You see me start, you hear me start to cry because like it's so, it's so just like nonchalant. Like I was nothing. All I was was a transaction. All I was, you know,

• 1:02:45Annie Elise?

  You were the carrier.

• 1:02:45Speaker 03

  I was the carrier. And she just kinda just goes into detail, like she goes into just straight detail about everything, just how, how they were gonna do it, the fire, well, what happened to the fire? That was never even a part of the plan. Like,

• 1:02:56Annie Elise?

  Wow.

• 1:02:56Speaker 03

  She, that just happened. But it makes sense because it all aligns in together, you know? You gotta think when she wanted me to leave to go to the park. So supposedly he was in the van waiting at the park for me. They were hoping that they could take me back to the house and do it there. The goal was not to have the C-section performed in my house, but

• 1:03:14Annie Elise?

  No.

• 1:03:15Speaker 03

  she had to keep improvising because I wasn't giving up. I wasn't leaving the house. Um, when I turned around, when she said three, that phone rang immediately. He was watching. When she said, hey, come get us, without even hesitation of who this is, that was him.

• 1:03:29Annie Elise?

  Yeah. It was planned. They had orchestrated it together. So now looking back at everything in hindsight. Your son is fifteen now?

• 1:03:38Speaker 03

  He's fifteen.

• 1:03:38Annie Elise?

  And you have three children, correct?

• 1:03:40Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:03:40Annie Elise?

  How old are they?

• 1:03:41Speaker 03

  So Ryland's fifteen, Maddox is ten, and Scarlett's eight.

• 1:03:45Annie Elise?

  Okay, and how, does he know anything about your story?

• 1:03:49Speaker 03

  Yes, so Ryland, Ryland's gone on a lot of interviews with me as a baby. So like, we did like the Dr. Phil Show, and then we did um, the ID Channel. So he was a part of both of those things, but he was, he was a baby.

• 1:04:01Annie Elise?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:04:01Speaker 03

  Um, when I went to the release, he would have been eight, eight and a half. So he was eight and a half when she was released. And I sat down that day when I came back home from the release, and I told him everything. And I said, I'm not telling you this to scare you. I'm telling you this because I want you to be protected, and I want you to not be naive. And I want you to understand that there was a bad woman out here who wanted to take you. I'm not, I'm not sure why she wanted to take you, but there was a reason. I showed him her picture. I went to the school, gave, printed out the picture. Um, I took time off of work for about three months because I changed our routines. I wanted to make sure that she, I didn't have a routine that she could follow. You know, Dr. Phil told me that um, I didn't have to worry about her ever coming back after me because she wanted a newborn.

• 1:04:44Annie Elise?

  Oh, because he knows.

• 1:04:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, because he knows.

• 1:04:46Annie Elise?

  Yeah, because he knows.

• 1:04:47Speaker 03

  So I was like, that's what he always told me, and that's what people always told me. Like, why are you scared? He wanted, she wanted a newborn.

• 1:04:52Annie Elise?

  Retaliation, anything. It could be just to ruin your life because she thinks you ruined hers now. There could be a million reasons.

• 1:04:59Speaker 03

  It's not, you know, people call me naive, like, it's like an insult. I'm not insulted that I'm naive, but you're not going to see me be naive about the same, the same situation twice.

• 1:05:08Annie Elise?

  Right.

• 1:05:08Speaker 03

  Like, we're allowed to grow, that's what, as humans, we're meant to grow. We're meant to learn, you know, go through hardship and learn from that and grow from it. And so, this is me growing from that, and if I'm scared, I'm scared.

• 1:05:18Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:18Speaker 03

  So I just wanted to change everything about our lives. Like, I, I mean, we didn't move or anything, but like, we, you know, I did leave Maricopa for about six or seven years, and then I ended up back in Maricopa. So, it was just changing everything, being more visual, being more, you know, under, like, realizing our surroundings, and for about, about a year or so, it felt really good, and we weren't bothered. And so, I do feel like, now I feel a lot better, but I'm still the same way.

• 1:05:42Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:42Speaker 03

  I still don't keep my eyes off of things, especially with me being public, you know. I don't want, I feel like my story is very unique. Um fetal abduction is something that doesn't happen often, but we learn from other people's mistakes and we learn from things that they've gone through. And so I'm not going to stop talking about the situation.

• 1:05:59Annie Elise?

  I, as you, it's your story. It's yours to tell. You shouldn't ever feel like you need to stop talking about it. And how has that journey been like for you? Because you have gone on Dr. Phil, you've done interviews. You have a very big presence and growing presence on TikTok and social media where you're sharing your story. Do you feel like that has been empowering for you and that it's been received well? And how has that entire situation been for you?

• 1:06:22Speaker 03

  Um, at first on TikTok, it was very scary. People started to recognize me from the Dr. Phil Show and that's kind of how that transpired. And that's when I decided to take my story back and kind of give an explanation and kind of break everything down for people. Cause the Dr. Phil Show did not show that.

• 1:06:36Annie Elise?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:06:37Speaker 03

  Um, so now it feels empowering because I feel like I'm finally being able to take my story back from what other people have said about me. The Dr. Phil Show, I feel like made me feel, made me feel like I was stupid. The ID Channel wasn't, it, it wasn't bad, but it didn't give the facts. It didn't, it gave lies to like, unfortunately, like when you do documentaries and things like that, people, I think people need to realize that. Sometimes it's not the truth. Sometimes there's things that aren't truthful in it. And so this was my first time to actually say it from my own mouth.

• 1:07:07Annie Elise?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:07:07Speaker 03

  Now, um, I got a lot of backlash for a lot of times. People kept telling me to like, stop feeling sorry for myself and.

• 1:07:13Annie Elise?

  Are you out of your mind? What?

• 1:07:15Speaker 03

  It's, it's, it's the internet. It's crazy.

• 1:07:18Annie Elise?

  Trust me. Yeah.

• 1:07:19Speaker 03

  So I stopped talking about it for a little bit. Like I never went on podcasts. I never did anything else. And then in 2023, I had, I think I went on my first true crime podcast, which was like the murder diaries.

• 1:07:32Annie Elise?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:07:32Speaker 03

  And that was my first time ever like doing something with like true crime. And then I started to get more involved into true crime, just like listening to other people's stories. And I started to realize I wasn't alone.

• 1:07:42Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:43Speaker 03

  I started to realize my biggest thing that I always state is that trauma is trauma, no matter how big or how small, like there's no reason to compare like my story with somebody else. Like we all go through the same thing. We all go through PTSD. We all can relate. We all dissociate. Like it just felt like I finally stepped into this world where I wasn't alone.

• 1:08:01Annie Elise?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:08:02Speaker 03

  And I still wasn't ready to like venture off and talk to like these other people. But I felt, I felt good. So then I started to learn to do things like and talk to other, like talk to, you know, do podcasts. And then I decided for the, then I decided, you know what? I know it's been a couple of years and people criticized me and said I was stupid, but I'm going to tell my story with confidence.

• 1:08:22Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:22Speaker 03

  And that's when I did my full, like I have a story time button on my TikTok. It's very long. It's like 10 minutes, like it's like seven, 10 minute videos, but it's basically what you and I talked about.

• 1:08:32Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:32Speaker 03

  I break everything down and it felt so empowering. It felt so good. It felt good to finally like be able to talk about like everything. And the biggest part was the confidence that it took like. So I feel, I feel amazing about it and I feel like I'm helping other people. I have, you know, sometimes I feel like maybe I shouldn't talk about it because people are like, okay, it happened to you, get over it.

• 1:08:55Annie Elise?

  No.

• 1:08:55Speaker 03

  Like it's been years. You don't know how many times I hear that. And sometimes it gets in my head where I'm like, maybe I should stop talking about it.

• 1:09:01Annie Elise?

  You go through something similar to this and then you tell me when you want to stop talking about it. Like, give me a break.

• 1:09:06Speaker 03

  Well, and I think people need to realize that like, I didn't start talking about it until 2020. And that's almost 10 years after my trauma. Like, and if you talk to a lot of survivors, a lot of them do the same thing. They don't talk for a while because they can't, it takes a while to go through therapy to understand what happened to you, to break everything down. And then also wanting to talk, you don't usually find survivors that go through the trauma and they're like, okay, let's go.

• 1:09:28Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:28Speaker 03

  Like, let's go and talk about it, just like how I am right now. They don't do that. So I am just really happy like that I was able just to fully like take my story back and talk about it. I met some friends like Tara. I've met Tara. She really helped me with building my confidence and talking to podcasts. And I recently just did a documentary for the Dr. Phil and all these things, like I would feel like Tara's like my big sister. She guides me and helps me and it's just, it's just really nice.

• 1:09:54Annie Elise?

  What do you hope that people take away when they hear your story?

• 1:09:58Speaker 03

  I hope they take away the intuition part. I hope that they understand that because as young, not even just young women, like as just young people in life, like we tend to want to run away from like whatever that voice inside of our head is telling us, or we don't understand what it is. Because I didn't understand. I'm very thankful that like I listened, but what I want other people to realize is that like, I between it only took like maybe half a second that I could have died and this could have, you know, happened to me. So I always want people to take away the intuition and just trusting yourself and learning to be more intuitive with yourself. But I also want other people and young, I want young women to understand what this crime is because unfortunately, when it happened to me, it wasn't very common. And ever since 2011,

• 1:10:43Speaker 03

  there's more cases that have happened. You know, you have Michelle, you have Marley, is it Marlene, Reagan, all of them, like, you know, they're different, our stories are different, but they're also very, very alike.

• 1:10:57Annie Elise?

  It's very alike.

• 1:10:58Speaker 03

  And, you know, it's just that I don't want to see this happen. It literally breaks my heart when I see this happening because it's just like, I feel like these women could have been saved. And we're not talking about this crime that much because it's not common.

• 1:11:11Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:11Speaker 03

  And, you know, like, when you have, like, sexual abuse, or you have, like, you know, domestic violence, like, you have this whole circle of people that unfortunately, it's so sad that it's happened to so many people, but there's this larger circle. There's not that with fetal abduction.

• 1:11:26Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:27Speaker 03

  And I don't want there to be.

• 1:11:28Annie Elise?

  Right.

• 1:11:28Speaker 03

  Please don't join this club.

• 1:11:29Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:29Speaker 03

  I don't want you to be a part of this club, but please, like, take away from the fact of making friends when you're pregnant, being aware when you're pregnant, because honestly, like, I think there was some type of study done that said, like, the number one cause of death in the US to pregnant women was murder, or was like, something, something along the lines of that. And it wasn't just about fetal abduction, it was about, like, you know, husbands that murder, you know, their pregnant wives, all of that. Like, we're in such a vulnerable state at that moment, and we're a target. So I just want women to understand that.

• 1:11:58Annie Elise?

  Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being here and for sharing your story, truly. I know that it was longer than we initially had planned.

• 1:12:05Speaker 03

  I'm sorry.

• 1:12:05Annie Elise?

  No, no, please, I'm grateful. Thank you so much for sharing all of that. I know that everybody listening to has been fascinated and loves hearing your story too, so I appreciate it.

• 1:12:15Speaker 03

  Thank you. Thank you for having me.

• 1:12:16Annie Elise?

  Yes, thank you. And so I'm going to put all of your socials, everything, in the episode description and the show notes, so people can follow along with your story, your journey, they can go watch your story time. But thank you so much for being here.

• 1:12:28Speaker 03

  Yes, thank you, Annie.

• 1:12:29Annie Elise?

  Angelique's story is one that is both terrifying and also incredibly powerful. It's a reminder for all of us that sometimes danger can come from the people that we trust the most. And again, another reminder that our instincts are there for a reason. I've said this before, and I know it maybe sounds lame or cliche, but your intuition and your gut, it's there as your first line of defense. It's there to protect you. It's there to tell you when something's wrong. So when you listen to that gut feeling, it quite literally can save your life. Her story is also an incredible story about survival. I mean, Angelique lived through something that very few people could even imagine, no less survive and get through.

• 1:13:12Annie Elise?

  And today, she's using her voice to raise awareness about fetal abduction cases and help others who, God forbid her in that situation, recognize the warning signs. Far too often are we hearing about cases where there's Facebook market exchanges or sales and people befriending them, and that's the plan all along. So by raising awareness, hopefully it will help curb future fetal abduction cases in the future. Now, really quickly, before we wrap this episode up, I do want to just say this. There is a lot more that is tied into this case. I'm talking video clips, clips of Angelique hearing the confession for the first time, videos, documents, court filings, so much. I was going to put it throughout this episode, but I really did not want to break up the interview.

• 1:13:57Annie Elise?

  I felt like I wanted Angelique to be able to share her story uninterrupted. I wanted it to be a clear experience for all of you. So what we've done is something that we've never done before, but depending on how you like it, we may do this for many cases or all cases in the future. But I went ahead and put our entire Angelique case folder over on Patreon, where that way you can see all of the research, all the court filings, all of the videos, the clips that she shared with us firsthand that we didn't put into this episode, again, the confession, things like that, where it just gives you a little bit more of a deeper look and deeper understanding of this case. Completely optional, of course, but it's for those of you who want to take it a little bit further.

• 1:14:39Annie Elise?

  A little bit more behind the scenes, behind the research into the case folder itself, how we gather all of our research and of course, some of those video clips and the material that is tied to this case. So it just helps paint a fuller picture for those of you who are, you know, true crime enthusiasts like myself that want to know every single detail involved in a case. So all of that is, the whole case folder is over on Patreon right now, patreon.com/annieelise. You can get access and once you're over there, please let me know if you want us to start doing that for the majority of our cases. As you know, we collect so much information as we're building an episode between the FOIA requests, the outreach, the interviews, court filings, whatever it may be, that we

• 1:15:21Annie Elise?

  have these massive case folders that we could easily share with you. For those of you who want to sleuth a little bit and want to look into it yourselves and want to see some of this stuff firsthand, and it's just again, a little bit of a way to go beyond the episode. So go ahead, take a look, it's up now and let me know if you want us to start doing that for other cases. But anyway, back to what I was saying regarding Angelique. So I just want to thank Angelique again for sharing her story with us and thank all of you guys for listening. And if you want to learn more about Angelique, her story, the great work that she's doing, I will include all of her information in the show notes below. But thank you so much for listening.

• 1:16:01Annie Elise?

  Until the next one, be nice, don't kill people, stay off of Facebook Marketplace and just be careful with who you trust. All right, bye.