363. Let people have the wrong impression of you ft. Eli Rallo

These days it's easy to feel observed and, therefore, judged by everyone for everything, whether that's online or in real life. Eli Rallo is an author and creator who understands this experience better than most of us and today we chat about her journey from a hardworking, theatre loving child to a nearly three time author and the Carrie Bradshaw of this generation. Our discussion includes topics like: Why is it so difficult to let people misunderstand you? How our core wounds effect how we handle criticism The power of delusional thinking How to manage comparison in hyper-competitive spaces The truth about influencer culture What it takes to become an author How do you know you’re with the right person? That and so much more! Listen now! Buy Eli's book HERE! https://www.theelirallo.com/does-anyone-else-feel-this-way Follow Eli HERE! https://www.instagram.com/eli.rallo/?hl=en *The views expressed by guests are not necessarily shared by our host! We invite open discussion and differing viewpoints, experiences and information. ORDER MY BOOK https://www.psychologyofyour20s.com/copy-of-book Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg https://www.instagram.com/jemmasbeg/?hl=en# Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast https://www.instagram.com/thatpsychologypodcast/?hl=en# For business: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Speaker 01

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• 0:32Jemma Sbeg?

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• 1:09Jemma Sbeg?

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• 2:54Jemma Sbeg?

  And most importantly, my overall health. And it just gives me all that data and all those patterns. So I can make better decisions, which includes knowing when to go easy and knowing when to go hard. New members can try Whoop with a 30 day free trial before committing to a membership. That's join.whoop.com/psychology for your free month of Whoop.

• 3:20Jemma Sbeg?

  Hello, everybody. I'm Jemma Sbeg and welcome back to the Psychology of Your 20s. The podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.

• 3:40Jemma Sbeg?

  Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to another December guest episode. It is so great to have you here. I am personally so excited for this episode and to have this specific guest on the podcast. Being a creative person these days, having an online presence, putting yourself out there can be tough. Even if you don't have an audience, people can be very critical of us when we are loud, proud and passionate about our dreams. One of my favorite creators talks about this a lot, how to manage comparison, how to let people misunderstand you. How to know when something is meant for you. She is the author of

• 4:20Jemma Sbeg?

  Two books about being in your twenties and a content creator who is honestly living her dream Carrie Bradshaw life. And today we got to have her on the podcast to really pick her brain about so many interesting things. Without further ado, here she is. Eli Rallo, welcome to the psychology of your twenties.

• 4:40Speaker 03

  Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.

• 4:43Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, me too. I feel like obviously we're in the middle of like our December guest month. And I was like, who better to have on the show than another queen of the twenty somethings, another queen of the twenties? Uh, if no one has heard about you, which I don't know how they haven't, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you kind of began? Your career to now being almost a three time author?

• 5:08Speaker 03

  Yes, I am a content creator and writer. I'm based in New York and also Texas. I'm twenty seven. And I started making content in twenty twenty and I've sort of been making content ever since. And my new book, Does Anyone Else Feel This Way?, out October fourteenth. So I'm in kind of the process of dealing with everything that comes along with like pre-publication for a book, which has just been so exciting. And it's so crazy. Like, I don't know when this is coming out, but when we're recording it, it's going to be out in a week. So it's been just a whirlwind.

• 5:41Jemma Sbeg?

  Oh, my gosh, I can relate. Like when my book came out, um, at the start of the year, it's like this huge, huge build up and then it kind of just like do it. And then everything just, you know what I mean? Like you reach this like pinnacle and the day that you release the book is often like the least exciting day. I don't know if you found that with your last book.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, with my last book, I definitely did. With this book, I definitely have a lot going on, more than the last one. Um. The last one, I was kind of like, okay, it's just here now and I'm gonna go see my book in bookstores, which I did. And that was a really special moment. But then I didn't have any like huge, I guess I did a book tour that night, but I didn't have like huge plans. This time I have like a fully packed schedule for the release week. So it's kind of a crazier moment in time, but I think a lot of gratitude because I can compare it, I can compare and contrast both of my sort of book release weeks and feel really grateful for growth and you know, all the steps in the right direction. So it's crazy, but it does really feel kind of anticlimactic emotionally because you're like, here's this thing I've been working on and now it's here.

• 6:46Jemma Sbeg?

  I know. And it's like, this is the thing that I have given like everything to, and I've like poured my whole heart into. I remember the day I released mine, I like went to find it in a bookstore and it wasn't there. And I was like, just walking around being like, oh, okay. And it took me like a couple of days to find it. Yeah, I was like.

• 7:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, sometimes it takes a while for them to like, get it into rotation. I didn't know this about bookstores.

• 7:10Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, the things you learn. Okay, this is a question that I've been really enjoying asking people recently, which is, what did you want to be when you grew up? Now that you are a content creator and an author, was that always the goal?

• 7:24Speaker 03

  Uh, I wanted to be a writer and I wanted to be on Broadway. So pretty similar. I'm pretty much the person I've always been, which I guess is quite comforting. Like I always knew I wanted to be a writer and I always knew I wanted to do like theater. So when I was a kid, I really wanted to write fiction. So I think it does feel like a childhood dream sort of discovered and kind of a welcome home in a way, because that was always the dream. And obviously went down a different path first, and I feel really grateful for that path as well. But fiction was definitely always like where my head was at when I was younger.

• 7:55Jemma Sbeg?

  Hmm. Did you feel like there was a point in your life where you were like, maybe this isn't gonna happen? Um, like, maybe this is just not for me.

• 8:03Speaker 03

  No. I honestly thought to myself, if I don't make it, like, it's gonna be the love of my life forever either way. Like, if I don't make it, I'm always gonna write and I'll self-publish. If I don't make it with Broadway, like, I'll do what I can to make enough money that I could like donate to Broadway shows or like donate to children's theater. Like, I just knew I would always be involved in the arts, even if I didn't make it. So like, no, I, I knew that no matter what, I would still do it. Like, no one can take writing away from you. Like, if you can't publish traditionally, which would be like the dream, the dream, the dream, like, you can publish yourself. And if you don't, like, anyone could do that. Like, I did it. And when I was in college, I self-published a poetry book.

• 8:43Speaker 03

  Like, I think I just knew that, like, no matter what, if I didn't make it, like, no one could take doing it away from me. It was habitual, like, in my blood every day, something I did. And same with theater, like, no one can take being a fan of the arts away from you. No one can take being an audience member away from you. So there was really never a moment that I was like, this might not happen, because I knew that even if I didn't make it in the traditional sense of the term, like, it would still be a part of my life. And that was enough for me. I think everything else is just like a cherry on top.

• 9:13Jemma Sbeg?

  No, so I totally agree with you and I feel this as someone else who is like very much living out a dream they had for a long time. People always are like, how do I know what like my dream job is? Like, how do I know what I'm meant to be doing? How do I know what my purpose is? And I'm like, if you would be doing it, even if there was no one paying attention, what is the thing you do that you just love to do because you love to do it? That you wouldn't actually ever need to be paid for and you would still have the love for? Like, that's the biggest thing. And, and some people like can't make money off of those things, right? That doesn't mean it's not still like your purpose.

• 9:50Speaker 03

  Important, yeah.

• 9:51Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, and not still important.

• 9:54Jemma Sbeg?

  What do you think about being delusional about your dreams? What are your thoughts on like this, this method for going after what you want?

• 10:02Speaker 03

  I think there has to be like a bit of delusion. Like, I don't think anybody like truly like confidently believes that they can like go out and snatch everything. I mean, maybe people do. I think there has to be a healthy mix of like realism and delusion. So the realism is like just that realistic voice being like, these are, you know, this is reality and this is where we're at right now. And then you have to sort of also take it the extra level that you just believe in yourself in tandem. So I think you have to have a little delusion and a little realism. That's always where I've like rested my head. I'm not like totally delusional. But I'm also like a little delusional, you know, like I'll keep it, I'll keep it a little delusional. But I try to be realistic with myself, like

• 10:46Speaker 03

  I think it's just helped me be grounded. I always talk about like how my parents raised us, like we were never raised to like get applause unless we earned it. Like, my parents were not the type of people, oh, they're just jealous of you. My parents were not like, you're perfect. My parents loved us, but like if we weren't good at something, we were not being told we were good at it. You know what I mean? Like, we were getting, we, we had to earn applause from things. And I think that it taught me like to understand my strengths and learn how to work on my weaknesses in a really good way. Like, I'm good at being real. And then I think the delusion comes in with like, you just have to be a little wacky when you're gonna dream really big and you have to believe that you can. And sometimes that takes like

• 11:27Speaker 03

  kind of kidding yourself in a way. But I try to be as realistic as possible and then also a little delusional.

• 11:33Jemma Sbeg?

  See, I have this other problem where I feel like sometimes I'm a little bit too realistic because I feel like being delusional jinxes things. I don't know if you have this this similar feeling where sometimes I'm like if I've thought about something happening and if I really want it to happen. Sometimes I get worried that it's gonna like jinx it and going to mean that in some universe it's already happened. So like it's never going to be allowed to emerge again. What are your thoughts on that?

• 11:58Speaker 03

  I feel that I, yeah, I think that like in going through processes for things I didn't get, but like that I'm still qualified to get again, like awards or nominations or bestseller, this or that, like I've just realized that

• 12:15Speaker 03

  placing all this pressure on a thing is just not worth it because then you'll feel like how you feel like, oh, I manifested this not happening. So I try to just do my best and like forget the rest. Like I try not to think about the lists and the accolades and all the things that I know are like around the bend that I'm being considered for or that I have been considered for, like I try to just forget it all, like it doesn't exist to me. And so that way, like I'm only focusing on the work and I don't focus on like, you know, numbers and data and this and that. And then of course, like those things do matter and there are things that I focus on, but I try to keep myself like pretty grounded and just like the creative, the act of creating and then the

• 12:56Speaker 03

  the art itself and not so much on the external because I think when I did that I would get really disappointed and I would also like feel like you did where it would be like, oh, I manifested this not happening.

• 13:07Jemma Sbeg?

  Hmm. Yeah, no, very, very true. I feel like this is the advice that I wish I could, I still think I need to hear myself, which is like just do it for the joy of doing something, like just do it for the joy and then no one can ever really take that away from you, which is I guess like the through line that we've just been coming back to like time and time again as people who are like working in creative spaces and working in like in entertainment. Um, I'm kind of going to shift gears here and let's talk a bit about our twenties because I feel like that's what people are tuning in from.

• 13:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:40Jemma Sbeg?

  You obviously have a lot of things that you really care about and that you really wanna do. And I think a big dilemma that people have in this decade is there is literally so much that I wanna try and I wanna achieve and I wanna see, how do I do it all at once? So this may be like a strange question, but like, what are your time manage- time management strategies, time management advice, or like, maybe deeper thoughts on like, yeah, I guess trying to do it all at once?

• 14:10Speaker 03

  I think when I hear people have that sort of complaint of like, there's so many lives they wanna live and so many things that I wanna try, I'm like, God, what a privilege. Like, you need to reframe it, like, what a privilege to be so excited to live that there are so many things you wanna try. What a privilege to be so, like, enamored with life that there are so many things you wanna do. Like, to me, the reality is, and it's completely something we can't change, you're never gonna be able to try everything, you're never gonna be able to probably visit every place or read every book, but like, what a gift that you could try to see as many places as possible or like, read as many books as possible or try as many things as possible. Like, there are so many people that just don't have that luxury. There are so many people that are born into circumstances where they don't have that luxury

• 14:53Speaker 03

  or are born in, or an, or an unable body. Like, I just try to be so grounded in the reality of the privilege it is to be excited to try things and to get to try things. And then I have so often talked with my friends about the fact that I think like, in your twenties, you kind of have to pick something to be like the center focus point of your world and that thing can change from chapter to chapter, year to year, even month to month. And like, I've sort of picked my job, like, it's at the center of my world. I sacrifice, everything else, I sacrifice. I make so many sacrifices for my work. For some people, they wanna choose their friendships. For some people, they wanna choose a community that they're a part of. For some people, they choose family or a romantic relationship. I also think that that thing at the center can change. It could change at any given week or any given month.

• 15:37Speaker 03

  What I mean by this is like, I know that by putting my job and my career right now as the center focal point, I am sacrificing things. I can't always make it to social outings. I don't really go out because I have to rest, because I'm, you know, extending myself. So much with my work, but that's something I have to be okay with. So I think you have to make, you have to figure out what your priorities are, figure out what the center point is going to be of any month or any week. And then be okay with the boundaries you have to set and the sacrifices you have to make in order to focus on that. And then I think kind of simultaneously, just like realize it's a privilege to be overwhelmed with choice and to be excited about life. Like, yes, there are so many paths that you could take. And yes, there is such thing as decision fatigue.

• 16:17Speaker 03

  Like I so often feel that way, but it's like, what a gift it is to be so exhausted by the opportunity to choose something so many people cannot say that they have.

• 16:28Jemma Sbeg?

  I love that way of thinking about it. And I also love that if you go even further with that thought, that means that like you can always choose again, right? If you have so many choices that feel equally good, it means that like you're actually probably never going to be stuck in one choice.

• 16:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, like you'll never feel, oh, I took the wrong path because like there's always going to be something else waiting for you. If you really do feel like there are so many options, you know what I mean?

• 16:53Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, and people change their lives like every single day. I feel like the, the reason that people get so like fixated on like, what life do I want to live? Is because they think that it's like some kind of contract that they're signing with like the world or with other people. That like, if I say I'm going to do this and this is who I'm going to be, I have to be ready to give 10 years of my life to that. No one's asking you to do that. Like you are allowed to change your mind like at any, any given time. In terms of choosing one thing, just to start, were there any like, are there any questions that you were able to ask yourself? Or that you would ask a friend to help them determine like, which is the first thing I should do?

• 17:31Speaker 03

  I guess it's just like, what do you want to do? Like, I think that people don't, I think that people way over complicate things. Like, what do you want to do? Like if social media didn't exist and nobody else's opinion mattered, what do you want to do? Like, okay, then do that. Like that, I think people way over complicate things. Like at the end of the day, in adulthood, I've realized like,

• 17:54Speaker 03

  There's going to be such a proliferation of choice and you need to get super in touch with yourself to be able to ask yourself, what do I want to do? What do I want to wear? Who do I want to spend my time around? And you have to figure out how to know yourself well enough to answer those questions. I feel like sometimes we're just not asking ourselves that question because we're so caught up in everybody else. And it's like, no, but what do you want? Like, that's what I would ask. What do you actually want? And I feel like people aren't asking themselves that and they're often not asked that either.

• 18:23Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, it's always like, how are you gonna make money? Like, how are you going to fulfill this dream that I have for you? Like, how are you gonna be happy? That's the other question I feel like people always get fixated on is like, how do I know I'll be happy? It's like, no, there is no promise. Something I actually, I was talking to my sister about this the other day, and tell me if you agree with this line of questioning. And sometimes people like, I, I think, I'll, I'll tell you what I always ask her. I say, like, the easiest way to determine what kind of life you want is to, is to see who you're jealous of. See who has like, lived out their dreams in like such a, such an amazing way, that the only way that you can like comprehend that you might want it is through

• 19:04Jemma Sbeg?

  envy, because like, you want it so badly. And a lot of people are like, when I, when I tell them that, like, wow, you're promoting being jealous. And I'm like, no, because jealousy is actually like two emotions, right? It's actually, it's a two layered thing. There's the initial feeling and then there's how you react to it. You don't have to react in like a backstabbing, terrible, self, like self-effacing way. You can react in a way that like makes it quite motivating and actually like switches to inspiration and celebration. What are, what are your thoughts on that? Because I know some people like hear that and like have a completely different take.

• 19:40Speaker 03

  I really like that. I think that's like, super true point. I'm definitely someone who thinks that jealousy is like, not really a bad thing. Like, I just think like, we've villainized it ourselves. But like, I always say, it's a signal that somebody else has something that you want. And instead of being like, oh, why them and not me? You could just as easily be like, why not us both? Or like, why can't I have that thing too? So I think jealousy is, yeah, I think it's a super. Normal human emotion that we have to be like more comfortable kind of confronting and facing.

• 20:11Jemma Sbeg?

  And it's also quite a helpful one as well. Okay, we're going to take a short break, but when we return, we're going to talk about comparison, how to manage when people have the wrong idea of you, and how to deal with friendship in our twenties. So stay with us.

• 20:29Speaker 04

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• 20:58Jemma Sbeg?

  This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know, they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on, and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is. Lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com.

• 21:35Jemma Sbeg?

  I've been really trying to prioritize my health in a realistic way this year, and something that has kept me really motivated is my Whoop. I am such a data person, which is why I love Whoop, because I can genuinely see why my body feels differently depending on the day, why I'm running differently, why I'm maybe less focused. Whoop effortlessly tracks my sleep, it tracks my strain, my recovery, my stress, and most importantly, my overall health. And it just gives me all that data and all those patterns so I can make better decisions, which includes knowing when to go easy and knowing when to go hard. New members can try Whoop with a 30-day free trial before committing to a membership. That's gymshark.com. Join dot whoop dot com slash psychology for your free month of whoop.

• 22:20Jemma Sbeg?

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• 23:27Jemma Sbeg?

  Let's talk about comparison, specifically like comparison in the arts.

• 23:35Jemma Sbeg?

  First question I actually have for you, which is completely unrelated, but what do you think about the term when people call you an influencer? Would you prefer like someone call you an author, a content creator, an influencer? What do you like kind of think about that word?

• 23:47Speaker 03

  I don't dislike it necessarily. I think it's so sad that it's become sort of like this derogatory term that men specifically utilize to weaponize it against women. So like, knowing that, it makes me kind of like it more because I'm like, how are you going to, how are you going to use this term as an insult? And this term literally describes an economy of mostly women who are like,

• 24:12Speaker 03

  Pulling themselves out of student debt, buying themselves homes, creating generational wealth for themselves that they never had before. Like, how are you going to use that? Like, as though it's an insult, like, kind of screwed up. So, I don't mind it. I'm happy with however anybody wants to credit me. Like, of course, I would love the books to be referenced, but like, I'm not bothered by the influencer of it all, because I recognize it as like an actual viable career. And I feel like when people say like, "Oh, do you not want me to call you an influencer?" Or, "How do you feel about that?" It comes from this place of like, people don't recognize it as a real career. And that kind of makes me so sad, because I'm like, wow, it's like this female-dominated industry, full of women, like, completely rewriting

• 24:56Speaker 03

  their own lives and becoming independently wealthy, which like, should be celebrated, but for some reason, it's not.

• 25:01Jemma Sbeg?

  Hmm. See, this is the conversation that like, is happening in Australia right now, where like, a bunch of what we would call influencers were obviously like, doing political coverage for like, our recent election. And it was like, used as such, like, um, this term to just like, completely undercut their, their opinions, and to be like, what are they doing, like, on, in these, in these environments? Um, but like, something about that industry, and it is a multi-billion dollar industry, um, is that it can be like, quite competitive as well. And there is a lot of like, comparison, and, yeah, like we said, jealousy. How do you, how do you manage that? Or do you just like, not experience it, or utilize it in a different way?

• 25:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think it's like, anything else. Like, I'm sure people at their own nine-to-five jobs have the experience of like, I even talk with my friends, like, you're competing against a coworker for a promotion, like, there's a lot of competition within those spaces. So I think it's like, anything else, that like, you're gonna compare yourself to people, and you're gonna see somebody on this brand trip, getting this deal, shooting this thing, and you're gonna say, "Why didn't I get that?" But I think if you want to be successful, you can't, you can't view other content creators as competition only as community, and I genuinely feel that way. Like, sometimes those creeping senses of comparison- And will creep up. But like, I know that like, rising tides rise all boats. When one of us wins, we all win. And like, I believe that opportunities meant for me won't pass me by. And so because I believe that,

• 26:32Speaker 03

  I try not to sit with any sort of comparison at all. And instead, I'm like, that's my community. Like, look at how well people in my community are doing. Like, when I see another influencer write a book, when I see an influencer, launch a podcast, a book club, a show, anything that is similar to the stuff I do. Like, I'm just celebrating that because it's like, when one person in our community wins, we all win. And the more that we view it like that, just like, the better it is for everybody.

• 26:56Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, and I feel like we're talking about this like in a singular like business space. But that's like advice that you can take in any area that you're in your twenties. Like especially academics as well. Like, I feel like a lot of people who listen to this are like still, obviously still in university. Some of them are even like in high school. And the thing is, is that like comparison will continue to repeat itself.

• 27:21Speaker 03

  Oh, it'll always exist.

• 27:23Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, it will always exist. And like, you think that like, oh, I'm gonna leave this like hyper academic environment, it's gonna be gone. No, because it's like a human quality, right? So it's gonna be with you. You have to like just change how you approach it.

• 27:34Speaker 03

  Totally. And I also think that like, you're just gonna continue to raise the standards that you have set for yourself. So it's like not going anywhere. You just have to learn how to maintain and manage it.

• 27:45Jemma Sbeg?

  Okay, so this is another kind of element of this that I think you probably deal with like in your career more than others, but which everyone is going to come across at some point in their lives, which is managing people having the wrong impression or opinion of you. And I actually saw you make like an Instagram story about this the other day, which was like, that's the worst part of this job is having the bravery to like, be like, this is my life. Now comment on it however you would like, and not being able to kind of talk back to those like, you know, false impressions. How do you manage that?

• 28:26Speaker 03

  I think you have to realize like, there are people that are hell bent on misunderstanding you. Like whatever you say, they will be like, you're wrong. There are people that have a story about you in their mind. They mine for details to confirm that story is true. The story is riddled with confirmation bias. And it's like, I don't want to focus on that 1% of people. If I could focus on the 99% of people who know my heart and my person and who I am, so I just ignore it. I think it takes a lot of strength to get to that place. And I don't think it's for everyone. Like, I have a lot of friends who are like, I would love to post, but like, I could never deal with the perception aspect. And I get that. Like, it's not for everyone. And that's not to say I'm like, stronger than anyone else. It's just a matter of, do you want to deal with it?

• 29:08Speaker 03

  Yes or no? I do believe anyone could get to a place where they're dealing with it in a healthy way. But not everybody wants to, which is totally valid. And I get, and I wouldn't recommend it. Like, I, I wouldn't recommend it because it takes a lot of mental strength to get to a place where you can just read like nasty lies about yourself and you have to, you can't do anything about it. Like you, there's zero you could do. If you try to, if you, if someone said, she had a nose job, and you never had a nose job, so you went on a lie detector test and said, I never had a nose job, and it said you were telling the truth, they would be like, she paid off the lie detector. Like, if they believed that you had a nose job, even if you never did, they're never not going to believe that. So like, there's nothing that you can do. And once you just free yourself from the idea that like, people are just gonna be hell bent

• 29:52Speaker 03

  on having the wrong idea of you, why would you focus on anyone who has the wrong idea about you? Like, you know the truth. Like, it really brings me peace to know, I've never had a nose job. You know what I mean? I mean, that's just an example. No one's ever said that about me. But like, that's my example. Like, I've never had a nose job. And if you know that about yourself, well, why should it matter that people are spinning a falsified story about the fact that you had one? You know what I mean?

• 30:11Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, I do. And I feel like it's this whole, everything we've been talking about here, like, relies on the fact that we get so much of our identity and validation and sense of self-worth from like, our social ties. And so when we are misunderstood, when we feel jealous, when we feel comparison, it kind of fractures that like, foundation for our beliefs. This is just like another battle for this. What's like, the worst misunderstanding that you've heard about yourself? Like, I have one, but like, of my, of my own. And I feel like each of us has this thing that, like, we have been misunderstood about that we wish we could like, clarify. What's yours?

• 30:48Speaker 03

  People always like have said that like my parents paid for my book deals, which like I don't understand how people can't wrap their head around this. Like you cannot pay a traditional publisher to publish your book. You cannot pay Simon and Schuster, Hachette, Harper Collins, like Penguin. You cannot pay them. That's not a thing. It doesn't exist. There's no amount of money in the world that they will take to publish your book. Like you can't do that. So that frustrates me because I feel like it just undermines like what I was able to do for myself. People say my parents connected me to them. My parents work in restaurants. They own small family run businesses. One time my dad self published a coffee table book about food. Like that was a self publication. You can go and do it on Amazon.

• 31:32Speaker 03

  You can pay someone to self publish a book. My parents don't have connections in publishing. If they did, I never would have went into student debt to go to grad school. I would have said, Mom and Dad, hook me up with your connections. Like they don't have them. And if they did, like I'm so honest about so many things that happened in my life. I would share my connections. Like I would say I had them, but I didn't have them. So it frustrates and upsets me that that allegation comes my way a lot. Cause I'm like, damn. And then, yeah, of course the, her parents pay for everything, which is just simply untrue. And I think that like a lot of people, like I grew up very privileged. And the truth of the matter is my parents themselves did not grow up privileged.

• 32:14Speaker 03

  Like the life that they've given to myself and my brothers was very different from the lives that they had themselves. And so it brings me a lot of sadness to like,

• 32:25Speaker 03

  see people that work so hard get sort of that tossed in their face because it's like they've worked so hard for my, my, my brothers and I. But also I was cut off the day I graduated college. I am so transparent about how privileged that I have been in my life, that I did not have student debt for my undergrad, which is like an unbelievable massive privilege that sets me up to be like miles ahead of other people. And I understand that truly and deeply, but I think it upsets me to see, oh, her parents pay for her whole life. Because like I'm so proud of myself and also like my parents didn't come from what they were able to provide from us, for us. So I think it also like, I don't know, it just makes me feel upset like they didn't instill a work ethic in me or that like they're just paying for me, which they're not.

• 33:09Speaker 03

  And I don't know, I think that that can be frustrating and it's something that's levied at a lot of women who don't come from privilege as well, which I'm just like, that's just plain sexist. I guess I could see how people are arriving at the point that my parents like bankroll my life, but like I haven't taken a dime from them since I graduated college. I would go on a lie detector test. I wish I, I wish I could. Those are some of them like that I get that it's just frustrating and like, I don't really need to prove people wrong because I don't really care. You can believe my parents pay for my life and that they bought my book deals and that they connected me with everybody, but like that was true. I would be, I would have been a published author at like 18.

• 33:46Jemma Sbeg?

  Literally, exactly.

• 33:47Speaker 03

  No, I would have been calling that, that contact up at like 16.

• 33:52Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, you would have been transferring the money into the bank accounts. Let's go like.

• 33:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, like let's, I would have been paying for it myself. It's so frustrating. That's frustrating to me and like, you know, there are worse things like in the world than that. But that's one of them that I'm always like, dang, like I wish that like people just believed that I could work hard. And obviously privilege has so much to do with it and I never want to shy away from that fact. Like the privilege I've had has undoubtedly set me ahead and allowed me to achieve the things I've achieved at such a, such a young age. And that's not what I'm trying to suggest. I'm just trying to suggest when people like blatantly make up lies about me, it can be frustrating.

• 34:28Jemma Sbeg?

  I think it's also frustrating because it obviously like are things that go so deeply against your value set. Like I'm sure people have a lot of things that you could easily dismiss and be like, no. But it's when something is like so deep actually against your core values and who you are as a person. Yeah, exactly.

• 34:45Speaker 03

  Because I'd be honest, like if I think it's so, I always see those memes of like, when you find out your friends' parents are paying for their rent, but they like lie about it and stuff like that. Like if my parents were paying for anything, I would be so open about that. Because I think like transparency in that regard is so important in our twenties, especially around money. Money's so awkward. And I would like to your point about it going against my value set. Like if my parents connected me with somebody in the publishing world, I would also be honest about that. Because then my story would be a lie. The story of like how I got to where I am today would be just a total lie. And like, that's so problematic and unfortunate, you know?

• 35:21Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, exactly. And also it's like.

• 35:25Jemma Sbeg?

  It just wouldn't be smart business.

• 35:27Speaker 03

  It would just wouldn't be smart business.

• 35:29Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah. Like if you, if you, if you believe nothing else, like you can believe that you would be doing what's best for your business and for like your

• 35:38Speaker 03

  That's like a dumb, dumb lie. That's a dumb lie.

• 35:41Jemma Sbeg?

  Exactly. Exactly. It's like, wait.

• 35:44Speaker 03

  It's like lying about like your parents being nepo baby, like to be like when nepo babies, they're like, I'm not a nepo baby. I've worked so hard for this. Like people aren't pissed about nepo babies. They're pissed when they don't admit that they're, they had a leg up. You know what I mean?

• 35:58Jemma Sbeg?

  No, I know. And I don't, I don't know if you know the comedian Robbie Hoffman. I feel like I talk about her on the podcast all the time. She's so funny. She is so funny. Yes. So underrated. Like she was on hacks, like she was on um dying for sex, two really amazing shows. I feel like if the frequent listeners of the podcast are sick of me talking about how good she is, but she did this interview with um Raven from that's a Raven.

• 36:25Speaker 03

  Obsessed.

• 36:25Jemma Sbeg?

  And her, and her wife. And she was like, I don't care if you have money. I want the money. Like that's why like people care about it, but don't lie about it. Like, we don't want you to be poor. We just also want to be rich and we want you to be honest. Um, and like it, and it was, it's very, very interesting. Cause like, I remember I went to this like inner city public school in like Melbourne and everyone's parents there, well, the majority of them were living in an incredibly wealthy area. And no one would really admit that like, maybe they'd had a few handouts and that like, maybe actually like they were doing pretty well. And there was this whole culture of like, who, like, I think it's even more offensive when someone takes like,

• 37:10Jemma Sbeg?

  takes the idea of like, I don't know, not having much or like of poverty or like of really struggling and never having had anything.

• 37:19Speaker 03

  Cosplays as it.

• 37:20Jemma Sbeg?

  And cosplays as it. Yeah, exactly.

• 37:21Speaker 03

  A hundred percent. I think it's so important. Like I've always been transparent about growing up privileged and being a privileged person and like having parents who are able to like aid me with my education. Like that is a tremendous. End is privileged to lie about that would be crazy because it is a massive leg up to graduate from college without student debt like a massive in America like that is a massive privilege it sets you on a different path it allowed me to be financially independent how I am now so I think that to your point like you're totally right like people who have money and who are financially privileged like nobody is mad at you they just want you to be unless you're you know super unethical billionaire yeah just want you to be honest about it people want you to be

• 38:05Speaker 03

  honest about it and I think what frustrates me about lies that have been told about me is that I have been so honest about all of it so far and they just pick and choose what to believe like why would I start lying now about you know oh like my parents bought my book deal or something like that like that's just frustrating like why would I lie about that like if that happened I promise I would be telling the 100% truth if my parents were paying for my lifestyle I would tell the truth about that because it sells everyone a falsified sense of reality and what's possible like I'm just gonna be honest about my financial place in this world as I have been and I think it's important that other people do the same other people especially who come from

• 38:47Speaker 03

  privilege like to the point of like oh my parents pay my rent and other people are looking at you like how can you afford all of this and it's like cuz they're getting help it's it's I think really important in your twenties to be very open about that kind of stuff cuz a lot of people are struggling and also a lot of influencers are posting lives online that people don't understand how they could lead

• 39:09Jemma Sbeg?

  I know and and then I think it sets people up for failure when they're like this is possible for me and then they like bankrupt themselves

• 39:16Speaker 03

  Yes yeah it's

• 39:18Jemma Sbeg?

  Which like we see

• 39:19Speaker 03

  Bad influencing it's bad influencing

• 39:21Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah absolutely

• 39:22Speaker 03

  To omit the truth about your reality on the internet

• 39:25Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah

• 39:25Speaker 03

  Um in order to make it appear a certain way because people will feel influenced by you and I try to take that with a heightened level of responsibility and like be really honest

• 39:36Jemma Sbeg?

  See the thing that like I like the biggest misunderstanding that someone had about me was really similar um and it's

• 39:42Speaker 03

  No way I'm curious

• 39:43Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah well it was like I remember it was this one comment and one like thread that I found like just never look up yourself on Reddit by the way like anyone out there like just don't do it it's the worst decision of your life but someone was like oh she's money hungry Because like when I signed, I signed my, you know, deal for my podcast when I had a full time job. And, you know, there were all these expectations for how many ads I would run. And it was kind of the only way to be able to quit. And, you know, that contract was for, is for many, many years. And people always get frustrated by ads on the podcast. And I've, and every time someone brings it up, oh my God, it just really upsets me.

• 40:25Jemma Sbeg?

  And I, I know, I know it just, it really upsets me and I can never figure, like for a while, like my friends were like, why is it this? Like, why is it this that you, people say it all the time and every time you have such a visceral reaction? And I think it's because, again, it's that there is all this context that people don't know. And they make an assumption off of a very, very limited thing.

• 40:49Speaker 03

  Also, it's like, how are you, how are you supposed to pay your bills if not for ads? Like, they should be excited that you have more time to focus on the podcast because you've been able to leverage it as a full time career. And again, a woman who is self-made is so important in this world. I don't know why we're not applauding more self-made women. And instead, we just need to tear them down constantly. And it's always like a man paid for it, or she's doing too much, or, oh, she's money hungry now. But a dude could be like, I want to be rich and nobody cares.

• 41:20Jemma Sbeg?

  Exactly. Exactly. And I think there's like, again, it's this value thing where it's like, you have no idea how below my means I actually live. And like, you have no idea like, how much money I even make. And like, the money that I give to like, family members and the money that I give to like, like through donations and like, how I help friends. Like, I think that's the thing where it's like, you don't know. And it's like, my parents always raised me to be, again, it always comes back to this value. Like, my parents always raised me to be very generous and to always like, take what you have and give it back.

• 42:00Jemma Sbeg?

  And so when people assume that you're not what you've always been raised to be, like for you, you were always raised to be hardworking. And people assume that you are not that. It's like, just the deepest wound that can be cut. Um, and I think it also again comes down to this thing of like people not being honest about, about things and thinking, so you assume the worst, like you assume the worst of someone that you really don't know anything about.

• 42:22Speaker 03

  And I don't judge anybody, like I do judge people for coming at you like that, but I get where they're getting it. They're getting it from people who have lied. Do you know what I mean?

• 42:31Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 42:32Speaker 03

  They're getting it from the people who have lied, because there are people who have lied. But ultimately, I just think we need to be celebrating more financially independent, successful and self-made women, especially who are just like unproblematic and doing their best and like are honest, like, seems that you've been very honest. So that's just like so horrible. I'm sorry.

• 42:49Jemma Sbeg?

  Oh, no, it's okay. I'm sorry for you as well. Like it's, but again, I love how we're like, let's give, let's give advice on how to be misunderstood. And we're like, well, I'm still angry.

• 43:02Speaker 03

  I, yeah, I think it's, it's frustrating, right? But like, I think at the end of the day, like I freed myself from that kind of stuff. And you ask about it, it's all bringing it back up. But the idea that my parents paid for my book deal, the idea that I don't fund my own lifestyle, like, those things are deeply rooted in sexism because they wouldn't say it about my brothers. They don't say it about men. And it's deeply troubling to me when they levy it at women who didn't come from privilege. Like, I understand how you got there with me. Like, I can see how you got there. It makes sense. Women who didn't come from privilege, like, that is so insulting. Like, they are completely and entirely self-made.

• 43:43Speaker 03

  And that's what you're gonna say? Like, that is so deeply sexist to say about somebody who has put themselves in a financial situation they never would have been in before, which is true of so many female content creators and entrepreneurs in the media space.

• 43:58Jemma Sbeg?

  Hmm. And this is the thing is like, whatever situation you find yourself in, again, you know your truth. But also people can have those opinions and it does not change how much you have worked for this. And it does not change all the effort behind the scenes. And it's this thing of like, okay, if you truly believe that this is all that it took. Give it a go. Like if you truly believe that this is what happened, like try and find another story like that or like, and for people who are, you know, obviously not kind of in the space that we are in, I think it's just about having such a stoic mindset and

• 44:40Jemma Sbeg?

  being like, okay, but genuinely, how does this impact the actual reality of the situation? It's just words. And someone who is thinking about you that much, like they don't have time to think about themselves in a way that's improving them and bettering them. So it's like you, it's your gain through their loss, right? Like they have chosen to like let you occupy their mind. That's a win for you. Like you just can't let that happen to you as well and let them occupy your mind.

• 45:13Speaker 03

  I think the cost of sort of being seen and putting yourself out there is dislike, like the idea of people disliking you. You have to be brave enough so that people could dislike you, which is scary, but real.

• 45:27Jemma Sbeg?

  It's the cost of like a lot of success. All right. We're going to take one more break, but when we return, I want to talk about your relationship and also a little bit about your new book. Stay with us.

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• 46:13Jemma Sbeg?

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• 46:50Jemma Sbeg?

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• 47:33Jemma Sbeg?

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• 48:18Jemma Sbeg?

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• 49:02Jemma Sbeg?

  Am I right in saying you got engaged this year or last year?

• 49:05Speaker 03

  Yes, I got engaged last year, twenty twenty four.

• 49:09Jemma Sbeg?

  Okay, how was it?

• 49:11Speaker 03

  Uh, it was so magical and perfect and I'm so excited for our wedding, which it's crazy, it's like eight months away now and it feels like it happened so quickly.

• 49:21Jemma Sbeg?

  My gosh, eight months away. How was the wedding planning period? I guess you're still in it, right?

• 49:27Speaker 03

  It's interesting. My mom is definitely doing a lot of it, so that's really helpful. Frankly, with like this whole book situation, I haven't been thinking much about the wedding, but I know once the book is behind us and we kind of get closer to twenty twenty six, it's gonna be sort of all hands on deck, which, yeah, it's crazy.

• 49:44Jemma Sbeg?

  You're having like a little summer wedding, almost like a pre-summer wedding.

• 49:47Speaker 03

  Yes, pre-summer wedding, like kickoff of summer, which I love because summer is my favorite season.

• 49:52Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, it's the best. Okay, this is a question I get, speaking of our twenties, I get all the time, which is, how do I know that I'm with the right person?

• 50:01Jemma Sbeg?

  What are your thoughts on that? How did you know that you were with the right person?

• 50:07Speaker 03

  I think it's like so annoying to say, like I, I can't stress how annoying this is gonna be, but like, if you have to ask, it's not the right person. You will know. Like, I promise you, you will know. It is the most subtle and also deeply comforting feeling of just like, this is my person, there's no other way this could go. It's only us. Like, I, I can't describe it other than that, like it just makes sense and like you will know if you're, it's not some big fireworks explosive feeling, it's very subtle and very comforting and I think if you're searching for it, it's not there. And I don't mean to be condescending, like, at all. I, I just had never felt the way that I feel with my partner now,

• 50:48Speaker 03

  with anybody else that I'd ever been with, and I thought some of them were the one, but they weren't. And it took meeting the person who was to be like, damn, like that's what it feels like to be with the right person. It's just very comfortable, very subtle, very comforting, very obvious.

• 51:04Jemma Sbeg?

  This is like the line that everyone always says, like, you know, you know. And I think when you

• 51:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:09Jemma Sbeg?

  And I think, again, like, when you were in the situation where you're like, what do they mean by that? It's like, well, you probably haven't.

• 51:14Speaker 03

  You haven't felt that way. And that's okay. Like, it's more special if it's singular. Like, it's gonna come for you. And who knows? Like, but why would you want to feel that a million times? Like, the person that you're gonna wanna end up being with, like, that should be more special than the rest. So like, being patient for that feeling is worth it.

• 51:33Jemma Sbeg?

  When do you think is the time to leave a relationship? So if you have this feeling and you're like, I'm just not sure, how much time do you think you should give yourself to really maybe investigate it? If you've got like a bit of relationship anxiety, or like, you just found yourself being quite stressed about relationships in general?

• 51:52Speaker 03

  I think it depends on how long you've been in the relationship. Like, if it's been like six months and you're like, I'm not, I think every in- individual relationship is different, right? I think you just have to take the time that you need to investigate it and be real with yourself. I would talk to someone about it. Maybe that's a therapist, a trusted family member, or friends. Sometimes like, getting the feelings out into the world with someone like nonjudgmental can be helpful. And then I would make your decision from there. I wouldn't linger for too long. Like, I feel like the same way if you know, you know about be wanting to be with someone. There's an if you know, you know about wanting to get out. And sometimes we avoid the feeling for far too long. But like, the longer you avoid it, the harder it'll be.

• 52:32Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah. And trust your gut. Like, it's not relationship anxiety if it's been following you for months. Like, if this has been like three months, six months, like,

• 52:44Jemma Sbeg?

  there's something else going on there.

• 52:45Speaker 03

  There's something else going on there.

• 52:47Jemma Sbeg?

  And you'll feel like a huge sense of relief. I think like a lot of people don't wanna be single, and that's actually why they stay in a relationship. What's like your thoughts or advice on that predicament?

• 52:59Speaker 03

  I don't think like being single is inferior to being in a relationship. Like, I don't see one as like a waiting room and one as a destination. I see them as like sort of equivalents. Or like being single can be equal to dating and can be equal to being in a relationship. You can be single and want to be in a relationship, but there's like nothing wrong with being single. And I think once you realize like being single is not a waiting room, it gets so much better because like, you're like, yeah, right. Like, I was like waiting to live my life till I was in a relationship. That's sort of so sad. Like, let me just live it now. Um, I understand being scared to be single after being in a partnership for so long. But like, being scared means that you care. And I think that's a really good place to start. And not only that, like, when you are scared and when you do something brave,

• 53:44Speaker 03

  like, that's when the greatest transformations of your life happens. You have to like, keep the faith that on the other side, it will be good again. And I do believe that it will be. Like, no one has been heartbroken for their whole entire life. It's not a thing.

• 53:55Jemma Sbeg?

  And even if they have, they've made amazing art from it. Like, or they have like poured that into other people.

• 54:01Speaker 03

  Like, yeah, it's something, but even so, yeah.

• 54:05Jemma Sbeg?

  This is the thing, like, I was saying this to my friend the other day. I was like, maybe that's where all the cat ladies come. And there's a lot of souls that need love. And like, there's always, you're always gonna find love in like some form, right? Like, maybe, maybe you will grieve this person for the rest of your life. You probably most certainly won't. But if you do, like, that means that you're gonna have so, so much more emotion to, to put into other things as well. Like, and that means you're gonna feel very, very human. And also, you're just like, that's the worst case scenario. It's obviously not gonna actually occur. Like, people, people are so flexible and get over so much more and, and so much worse. And like, your heart can take so much more than, than you expect. Um, let's like turn our focus back onto your book as we wrap up.

• 54:49Jemma Sbeg?

  It's out now. When this episode comes out, you guys may have caught on that we are recording this a little bit early, but I just had to get Eli on the show. It's out now. What is your favorite chapter or favorite takeaway from this collection of essays?

• 55:03Speaker 03

  I love the last chapter. Like, that's probably my fave. Like, if I had to choose my number one, it would be the last. I also really like the first, but my favorite thing is like getting to see what other people think of it. Like, somebody's favorite chapter is not going to be one of those two that I just mentioned, and I can't wait to find those little nuggets of reader feedback out once it's in the world.

• 55:26Jemma Sbeg?

  Hmm. What's the last chapter on? So we all know.

• 55:29Speaker 03

  It is, does anyone else feel like it's okay not to know everything?

• 55:34Jemma Sbeg?

  The biggest fear of our twenties. The fear from which all other fears stem from, I believe. The fear of like, of the unknown.

• 55:42Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 55:43Jemma Sbeg?

  I can't wait to read it. Um, we always finish with this one question, and I'm excited to hear an answer, which is, what is one thing you wish you knew sooner about your twenties, or one piece of advice you would have for someone in your twenties that has nothing to do with what we discussed today?

• 56:00Speaker 03

  I would say like, don't try to waste it away. Don't try to be like on to the next all the time. I think there was a large chunk of my twenties that I like was just so wanting to like be out of that phase, out of my skin and into a different phase, into a different moment. And I just like really regret not living in the present more. So I would say just like lean into the moment, even if it's uncomfortable, sticky, shitty, awful, you hate it. You're never going to get the time back. And who knows what the future holds?

• 56:27Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah. Respect all seasons. They're there for a reason. Even like, even the terrible ones. Yeah. Well, I want to thank you again for coming on the podcast. Where can everybody find you?

• 56:40Speaker 03

  Uh, you can find me on Instagram, Eli, at Eli dot Rallo and TikTok at Eli Rallo. And you can get the book wherever you buy books.

• 56:47Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, you can get both books. I will leave

• 56:49Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 56:49Jemma Sbeg?

  them in the description below. They have really cool covers as well.

• 56:53Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh. Thank you. I appreciate that.

• 56:55Jemma Sbeg?

  The cover, like, I remember when you announced like your second book, I was like, that's a really sexy cover.

• 57:01Speaker 03

  Thank you. Thank you.

• 57:03Jemma Sbeg?

  People are gonna love it. Um, thank you again for joining us. As always, if you enjoyed the episode, please leave a five star review wherever you are listening. Make sure you're following along and follow us on Instagram at that psychology podcast to see the other guests we have coming on this December, as well as just keep up behind the scenes. Stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself. We will talk very, very soon.

• 57:29Jemma Sbeg?

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• 58:14Jemma Sbeg?

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• 58:58Jemma Sbeg?

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• 1:00:16Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed humor.