ROLLUP: Solana’s MakerDAO & Visa Win | Base L2 Halted | Uniswap Court W | Justin Bieber NFT Drop

WRU 2nd Week of September ----- 🏹 Airdrop Hunter is HERE, join your first HUNT today https://bankless.cc/JoinYourFirstHUNT ------ 📣 AAVE V3 is Here! http://app.aave.com/ ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🐙KRAKEN | MOST-TRUSTED CRYPTO EXCHANGE ⁠https://k.xyz/bankless-pod-q2 ⁠ https://feeds.flightcast.com/%E2%81%A0https:/k.xyz/bankless-pod-q2%20%E2%81%A0 🦊METAMASK PORTFOLIO | MANAGE YOUR WEB3 EVERYTHING ⁠https://bankless.cc/MetaMask https://feeds.flightcast.com/%E2%81%A0https:/bankless.cc/MetaMask ⚖️ ARBITRUM | SCALING ETHEREUM ⁠https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum ⁠ https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum%20%E2%81%A0 🛞MANTLE | MODULAR LAYER 2 NETWORK https://bankless.cc/Mantle ⁠ 🦄UNISWAP | ON-CHAIN MARKETPLACE ⁠https://bankless.cc/uniswap 🗣️TOKU | CRYPTO EMPLOYMENT SOLUTION https://bankless.cc/Toku ----- TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES 0:00 Intro 3:55 MARKETS 5:25 L2 TLV and Scaling Factor https://thedefiant.io/starknet-activity-surges-on-token-speculation 7:15 Crypto wealth stats - David how many crypto millionaires do you think there are? https://www.henleyglobal.com/publications/crypto-wealth-report 9:10 U. S. deficit explodes despite growing economy https://twitter.com/jasonfurman/status/1698391469881455098 https://twitter.com/jasonfurman/status/1698391482724442607 13:40 Wen BTC ETF? https://twitter.com/EricBalchunas/status/1696887691122548798 https://twitter.com/JSeyff/status/1697360209453187085 https://twitter.com/EricBalchunas/status/1699480838868517273 17:35 Uniswap Spot volume surpassed Coinbase in spot trading volume in 2023 https://twitter.com/RasterlyRock/status/1694039760745152761 20:25 Maker DAO’s endgame on Solana? https://twitter.com/RuneKek/status/1697623700013822244 28:50 Vitalik sold his entire remaining stake of 500 MKRs https://twitter.com/OnchainDataNerd/status/1697941332826923348 https://twitter.com/aeyakovenko/status/1698182686568018238 31:00 Justin Leroux https://twitter.com/0xMidnight/status/1697634909706215604 32:00 Foobar https://twitter.com/0xfoobar/status/1698832035647787513 38:55 Visa expanded its stablecoin settlement to Solana https://twitter.com/cuysheffield/status/1699031134229926284 41:39 Base had a delay in block production https://twitter.com/buildonbase/status/1699192035553812658 46:00 Court sides with Uniswap over class action suit https://twitter.com/eleanorterrett/status/1696918343943340235 https://www.docdroid.net/APrJolt/risley-v-uniswap-pdf https://twitter.com/haydenzadams/status/1696991910370411003 https://twitter.com/BillHughesDC/status/1696998957526696405 52:20 Roman Storm Pleads Not Guilty https://cointelegraph.com/news/tornado-cash-cofounder-pleads-not-guilty 50:20 Polygon launches their “Supernets” kit for https://twitter.com/sandeepnailwal/status/1696618823422529898 54:35 Arbitrum released Stylus https://twitter.com/OffchainLabs/status/1697232795268177987 https://twitter.com/CryptoIsCute/status/1697647185561866382 56:30 StarkWare's Stone Prover now open sourced https://twitter.com/Starknet/status/1697504345485381652 57:00 RocketPool two major upcoming upgrades https://twitter.com/drjasper_eth/status/1698554983837282750 57:30 Kevin Owocki is returning to Gitcoin https://twitter.com/owocki/status/1699056199445221437 58:14 Justin Bieber is releasing NFT collection https://anotherblock.io/drops/justin-bieber-company 1:00:20 Fidelity released an Investment Thesis for Ethereum https://twitter.com/RyanSAdams/status/1697364409755029860 1:03:10 Binance is delisting privacy coins in Belgium https://twitter.com/mister_ch0c/status/1699290391168618722 1:04:00 MetaMask introduced bank and PayPal cash-out options https://portfolio.metamask.io/ 1:07:19 Questions From the Nation 1:13:50 Takes of The Week https://twitter.com/pythianism/status/1699594987892256889 https://twitter.com/RyanSAdams/status/1696957206116315566 1:18:30 What Are We Bullish On? https://twitter.com/ckc12_rb/status/1675159167940587520 https://twitter.com/cathsimard_/status/1675150596570230785 https://twitter.com/TrustlessState/status/1675165817569439744 https://twitter.com/cathsimard_ https://twitter.com/mattmedved/status/1697795471803297847 Ryan: Bankless is releasing Claimables! https://imgur.com/a/w9f2r0B Meme of The Week & Moment of Zen https://twitter.com/RyanSAdams/status/1699782057793372342 ------ Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures ⁠

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Is MakerDAO's Endgame on Solana? David, what are we looking at here?

• 0:04David Hoffman?

  Okay, so Rune Christensen puts out this tweet that rocked the Ethereum community, and the broader crypto world, I say. And he just says, "The last phase of Endgame is the launch of a native blockchain for Maker, with codename NewChain. It will make the ecosystem more secure and efficient. After some research, I believe the Solana codebase should be considered as the basis for NewChain."

• 0:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  Solana?

• 0:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  It is the second Friday of September, and it is time for, what, David?

• 0:33David Hoffman?

  The Bankless Friday Weekly Rollup, where we cover the entire weekly news in crypto, and that is always an ambitious endeavor. And Ryan and I are squeezed for time today, so we're gonna go so fast through this agenda.

• 0:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  We're gonna go so fast, David.

• 0:44David Hoffman?

  It's gonna take us 90 minutes.

• 0:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. That's a promise. You can commit that to the blockchain settlement assurances. David, it's good to see you, man. Back from Burning Man. I'm glad you came back.

• 0:55David Hoffman?

  I got so lucky.

• 0:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  Destroying some horror cruxes. Do you hear the Twitter rumor? You're destroying horror cruxes?

• 1:01David Hoffman?

  Oh, yeah, I did hear that.

• 1:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  Every time you go away, something bad happens to Gary Gensler.

• 1:05David Hoffman?

  I know.

• 1:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  Like, he loses a court case.

• 1:07David Hoffman?

  I'm aware of what happens.

• 1:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  So what are you really doing, my friend?

• 1:11David Hoffman?

  What am I really doing? Was I truly at Burning Man? How did I get back so soon from Burning Man while everyone else got stuck? What's the deal with that?

• 1:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, and when are you going again?

• 1:19David Hoffman?

  When am I leaving next?

• 1:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, next court case.

• 1:22David Hoffman?

  I actually do not have another trip planned that's not a crypto conference for a while, so Gary Gensler is gonna be... He's gonna rest okay for now.

• 1:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, when you're gone...

• 1:30David Hoffman?

  He's already losing.

• 1:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, he is. We're gonna talk about that, but when you're gone, some things happened. So the first is, MakerDAO, at least Rune Christensen, said the final stage of Endgame for MakerDAO is Solana? Question mark. We're gonna talk about that. What else we got going on?

• 1:48David Hoffman?

  Also in Solana world, Visa announces it's gonna settle USDC on Solana, while simultaneously this week, the base layer 2 sees a halt in block production. Did Solana take the dub this week?

• 2:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wow.

• 2:01David Hoffman?

  Wow. Okay, but including to those dubs, Uniswap takes a dub in the courts, adding to the tally of crypto dubs and TradFi Ls. And then also, I did not see this coming, but Justin Bieber drops an NFT that I give two thumbs up for quality, quality and integrity. It's a good

• 2:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  You've looked at this?

• 2:23David Hoffman?

  Well, I didn't, I didn't mint it. I'm not a Justin Bieber fan. I'm not, not a Justin Bieber fan. But this NFT is not like all the others. So we will talk about why this NFT is different and what it means for, as a model for future NFT drops.

• 2:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, good job, Biebs, in advance. Guys, before we get in today, there's a message from our friends and sponsors over at Aave. David, you ever use Aave?

• 2:42David Hoffman?

  I'm currently using Aave.

• 2:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  My God, Aave is the best. And Aave wants us to let you know that Aave V3 is here. And why are we telling you this now? Aave V3, actually, David, came out in January of this year, which means it's a bit more hardened, it's a bit more tested. And there is some protocol liquidity to migrate from V2 to the new Aave. So that is the message. There are some benefits that come with Aave V3. Do you know what those are, David?

• 3:12David Hoffman?

  Oh, there's a handful of them. There's more efficiency, there's reduced gas prices for swapping. You can, you can swap collateral without having to like unwind, trade on Uniswap, and then put it back in. Aave will just do all that for you. I'm doing this from memory. Is there anything else? What else did I miss?

• 3:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  No, you got it. Asset isolation mode. So there's lower risk for different asset pools, all of those things. So if you are an Aave V2 user, then you can move your assets from V2 to V3 with an easy migration tool. That's on app.ave.com. Oh, and if you're a builder, by the way, so Aave just released their Go stablecoin, if you remember that. And they are funding anyone who is building on top of Go. So there's a link in the show notes, avegrants.org, where you can get your grant on if you're building something on Go. That's it, man. You ready to get to the markets?

• 3:58David Hoffman?

  I'm ready to get to the markets, yeah.

• 4:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, here we go. Bitcoin on the week. Tell us, what are we looking at?

• 4:03David Hoffman?

  Everything is flat. Everything, the whole, the whole markets are flat. Should we call it good?

• 4:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  So you're telling me Bitcoin's flat, ETH is flat.

• 4:12David Hoffman?

  We can just cut in last week's prices from last episode and it would be the exact same.

• 4:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  Man, pancake flat. I feel like that's like been the last month or so, last six weeks.

• 4:22David Hoffman?

  I mean, we're incrementally downwards. Like ETH is low right now. 1630, that is a low price. Bitcoin at 25,800, that's a low price. Things are low.

• 4:33Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. Are you feeling in the mood to buy these prices?

• 4:37David Hoffman?

  I mean, I bought, I don't do anything I buy because of reoccurring buys.

• 4:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  I mean, anything below like 2K, but if we get below 1500 on ETH, that is like a buy zone. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Do you think we could get back to triple digit ETH, David?

• 4:52David Hoffman?

  Moving on.

• 4:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  Do you think we could get back to triple digit?

• 4:55David Hoffman?

  I'm going to triple digits.

• 4:58David Hoffman?

  Below 1500 is on the table. Like, that's totally reasonable. Three digits is not, not on the table.

• 5:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  If we get to triple digits, then I called it, okay, and I never capitulated.

• 5:07David Hoffman?

  You uncalled it, like three months ago.

• 5:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  No, no, no un callbacks. All right. I called it once. That counts if it dips.

• 5:15Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right. Well, we'll see what's in store in this crab market. Thanks to Kraken as always for providing these glorious charts, even though nothing at all is happening on them. Here are some charts that things are happening on. This is on Layer 2 beat. We got TVL going up. We got scaling factor going up. Let's see, let me look at the 7-day.

• 5:35David Hoffman?

  It's down because of price. 3.5% down. We're below 10 billion dollars on, on Layer 2s.

• 5:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right.

• 5:42David Hoffman?

  Hold your breath. It'll be back up above $10 billion. Oh my God, that activity chart is so good.

• 5:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  Activity's going up.

• 5:48David Hoffman?

  That makes me so happy.

• 5:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  Something's going up.

• 5:51David Hoffman?

  There's always a bull market somewhere.

• 5:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, look at this. Starknet had a big week this week, apparently. Here's an article from The Defiant. Starknet activity surges on token speculation. So apparently. Somebody tweeted this out, maybe, from the Starknet account. A tweet that was then deleted about Starknet tokens. So there's some additional speculation going on.

• 6:13David Hoffman?

  There's no confusion that Starknet has. The Starknet token is minted. There is a contract address. It does exist. That's not what's being up for speculation. This story of how Starknet tokens becomes distributed is the unknown thing. And I think the reason why it's unknown is the Starkware org is not, is hands off. And they are totally giving it up to the foundation and some sort of just like community decided governance about how to distribute the thing. And so like, I think if you want alpha on Starknet distribution plans, like, I'm pretty sure that information's public. You just have to go sift through forums to go find it.

• 6:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  I thought it would have been distributed by now. I thought they would have kind of launched.

• 6:50David Hoffman?

  It is partially being distributed. There's not, like, unlike previous tokens with like retroactive airdrops, blah, blah, blah, blah. There's not like one distribution event. They are saying like, okay, like, we, these people are good in doing valuable stuff. Let's give them some tokens. And then that gets distributed. And then, you know, repeat this process many, many times. And all of a sudden, we have a liquid token. I don't think the token's liquid, though. It's definitely not liquid.

• 7:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, it's, I don't think it's liquid. Anyway, we got L2B activity going up. At least that is going up on the week. David, how many crypto millionaires do you think there are? Just guess.

• 7:20David Hoffman?

  Less this year than last year, that's for sure.

• 7:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay.

• 7:23David Hoffman?

  Or two years ago, at least.

• 7:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  How many? How many are you talking?

• 7:26David Hoffman?

  How many crypto millionaires are there? Over 10,000.

• 7:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  Over 10,000 for the millionaires. Everyone in the Bankless community, of course.

• 7:35David Hoffman?

  Every single bank.

• 7:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  That has been here since the podcast, you know, number one.

• 7:40David Hoffman?

  Not a, maybe up to 100,000 is my final answer.

• 7:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  Up to 100,000. All right, well, here's the answer for you. At least according to Henley and Partners. Really close, David. 88,200.

• 7:53David Hoffman?

  I'm awesome.

• 7:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  Total crypto millionaires, according to this, this report.

• 7:57David Hoffman?

  Stuff like this, correct?

• 7:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  182 centa millionaires.

• 8:01David Hoffman?

  What is that?

• 8:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's 100 million and above, apparently, in crypto. And 22 billionaires in crypto.

• 8:08David Hoffman?

  Only 22 billionaires.

• 8:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. And according to this, anyway, this is why I'm actually not sure of these stats. The total crypto users is 425 million. Okay, this is Henley and Partners compiled a crypto wealth report. Apparently, they do this thing for all sorts of other asset classes and they list their methodology on the methodology page. And it's kind of like

• 8:31David Hoffman?

  I wish there was a standard for users.

• 8:33Ryan Sean Adams?

  Public information, yeah. It's like a proprietary database type of things. So I don't know how accurate this is, but interesting data set nonetheless. Yeah, millionaires, centimillionaires and billionaires in crypto.

• 8:46David Hoffman?

  Let's add some zeros onto those numbers.

• 8:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  Trillionaires?

• 8:49David Hoffman?

  No, the number of millionaires. I guess that's the same thing, but I'd rather have more millionaires than more trillionaires in crypto.

• 9:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  More distribution, more distribution here.

• 9:02David Hoffman?

  I want every single listener of this podcast to be a millionaire.

• 9:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, really? Is that saying something about the dollar inflating? Because that's the next story I've got for you.

• 9:11David Hoffman?

  That's not what I had in mind, but sure, let's go there. That's one shortcut of the way to there.

• 9:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  Look at all the millionaires. US deficits explode despite the growing economy. There's actually been, this was a Washington Post article, which I don't often see these types of things in like mainstream media like the Washington Post, talking about US deficit explosion. But did you know, David, that the deficit, the US deficit this year, that is spending more in their fiscal, their annual budget than previous years, it's going to rise from about 4% of GDP last year to almost 8% this year of GDP.

• 9:52David Hoffman?

  So 8% of GDP. So just understanding this, this means that if the deficit is 8% of GDP, is that we

• 9:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  In the hole.

• 10:00David Hoffman?

  We need to take 8% of our economy, the revenue from our economy every single year and pay that to stay flat in our bills?

• 10:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, we're going in debt by like 8% of our GDP every single year.

• 10:13David Hoffman?

  So every single year, we owe 8% of our GDP to stay flat?

• 10:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yep, right now. This is kind of the year. What do you mean to stay flat, though?

• 10:21David Hoffman?

  To not sink further in debt.

• 10:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  No, that is us sinking further in debt. This 8% is basically of our GDP, another 8% in the hole. That's what's happening this year.

• 10:34David Hoffman?

  That feels large.

• 10:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  Make things more clear. It is large.

• 10:36David Hoffman?

  That feels large.

• 10:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  So, uh, this was COVID, right? Big bump in terms of deficit. So 3.1 trillion in 2020, you might expect that. 2.8 trillion in 2021. Then it went way down in 2022. Well, now it's back up to 2 trillion. And just for some context here, we've only had higher deficits as a share of GDP in 1942 and, uh, to 1945.

• 11:00David Hoffman?

  That will have to work.

• 11:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  So those three years. Yeah, you remember that? Well, you don't remember that.

• 11:04David Hoffman?

  I know what those are.

• 11:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  Those dates ring a bell.

• 11:06David Hoffman?

  I know those numbers.

• 11:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  Uh, 2009 to 2011.

• 11:09David Hoffman?

  Okay, housing crisis.

• 11:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay. And then, and then, uh, 2022 and 2021.

• 11:14David Hoffman?

  Okay, COVID.

• 11:15Ryan Sean Adams?

  Those are the only years we've had a higher deficit.

• 11:17David Hoffman?

  Wait, but this is a normal year because COVID is behind us.

• 11:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  I, it's not normal from a deficit perspective.

• 11:23David Hoffman?

  What's going on?

• 11:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, anyway, I mean, we kind of have talked about this a little bit. Interest payments going up and some of the, the reasons. Tax revenue apparently is way down. So that's another contributing factor. Government's gonna have to print money out of this one, uh, which maybe brings us to what's going on in Turkey. David, you wanna, you read the headline here?

• 11:43David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so this, the follow up on this happening right after we talked about deficit is too, too good and also in a bad way. Okay, so, um, over the last year and a half, adoption in Turkey of crypto has increased from 40% to 52% of the Turkish population. So 12% of the Turkish population has adopted crypto in the last year and a half. That's pretty good. Like, and why is this happening? Well, Turkey inflation, which is what a deficit in your budget leads to, right? Right? That's the right logic? Yes. Turkey reported 60% inflation in August. So according to this KuCoin article, blog article, "Our findings in Turkey and other previous country reports, the growing number and percentage of crypto investors indicate

• 12:25David Hoffman?

  an increasing interest and acceptance of crypto as a hedge against inflation, especially with the Turkish lira losing over 50% of its value against the US dollar." So this, is this America's future? Hopefully not, hopefully not soon, but slowly inevitably, yes.

• 12:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, and I think it's interesting. So I don't know how reliable these percentages are. The sample size is somewhat small, but I mean, this report is saying 40 to 52% of the Turkish population owns some crypto.

• 12:54David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so there's like an interesting set of countries out there, and I think it might be data points of two, Argentina and Turkey, of internet-connected, developed countries with high inflation are also the spearhead of crypto adoption.

• 13:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  Right. I mean, this is the crypto use case. I mean, you know, some people are like, whoa, where are the use cases? Where are the use cases? Well, when you have a fully developed kind of bank system, and you have like Venmo and PayPal and other things, then normies don't need this as much. When you have capital controls, when you have your store of value currency inflating away, well, you very much need this. And it's good to see kind of crypto holding up its use cases where it's most needed. David, a follow-up from last week, all right? We got some maybe good Bitcoin ETF news. Of course, you heard about the court case. That was one. Here is a follow-up from one of the analysts in that space who's really tracking this. This is Eric. Eric B. What is Eric saying?

• 13:55David Hoffman?

  Eric and his colleague James are saying that they are upping their odds of a spot Bitcoin ETF launching this year up to 75% odds, so three out of four odds, and then also 95% by the end of 2024, which is pretty good. These are just two people's numbers, two informed people's numbers. They said that they previously had a 65% odds of spot Bitcoin ETF launching this year, but since the grayscale court case, they have upped that to 75%. Basically, they are saying that the SEC has been left with very little wiggle room. And then they are also adding that beyond the legal loss, this is just overall a PR loss for Mr. Gensler. Sucks to suck.

• 14:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  It does. By the way, Eric and James, these are the people who know. Actually, we had James in the podcast. I did that one solo while you're out. He's absolutely phenomenal. And he tweets a follow-up here. "Next dates to watch, the middle of October are the next major days to watch for the Bitcoin ETF, namely October 16th." Well, David, something else happened this week as well. And this is again from an ETF analyst, Eric B. "Boom. Arc just filed for a spot Ether ETF." The first one, probably more coming imminent. All right, we're just talking about a Bitcoin spot ETF potentially getting approved either this year or maybe early next year. And we're talking about those odds.

• 15:17David Hoffman?

  Well, so that is, he says, probably not the only one. That's also true. 21 shares that that company also filed for a spot Ether ETF this week, too.

• 15:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  They did? I missed that.

• 15:28David Hoffman?

  There's two. There's two.

• 15:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's absolutely.

• 15:31David Hoffman?

  And both would like to custody their assets with Coinbase custody. Interesting.

• 15:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  I mean, it's so great that Bitcoin is kind of macheting its way through the regulatory jungle. And once it gets a spot Bitcoin ETF approved, then you got to think that the spot Ether ETF is just like months away. At least if Gary Gensler doesn't get his way. I mean, it seems to be that's going to be what's happening because there's no excuse to not follow up with a Ether ETF.

• 15:59David Hoffman?

  Gary Gensler has no excuses. Yes. The dislocation between the fundamentals of this entire industry and the prices, it's like nearing all time highs. It's highs I have not seen since like 2018 to 2019.

• 16:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  Are you telling me it's not priced in? You think the retail ETFs are not priced in?

• 16:16David Hoffman?

  Crypto prices are going down and the ETF is becoming more and more assured sooner.

• 16:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  Why do you think that's a big deal? So just an ETF product will just retail?

• 16:27David Hoffman?

  Big pipes of money to buy our assets.

• 16:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  I mean, one example of this is, you know, financial advisors. How many financial advisors do you know, or how many people you know, like just normal people who get their advice from their professional financial advisor, like Edward Jones guy?

• 16:42David Hoffman?

  You mean the shape of the world? Yeah, by definition, like most of them.

• 16:45Ryan Sean Adams?

  The people who don't, you know, pay attention to their finances as much, right? Well, the reason most financial professionals in the US don't actually recommend cryptos because they don't have crypto products.

• 16:54David Hoffman?

  There's no mechanisms, yes.

• 16:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, and so, once they get a ETF, which is what they do, these types of financial advisors, they just recommend ETFs all day.

• 17:03David Hoffman?

  Right, imagine what FTX did for the financial advisors who were trying to say like, yo, like, let's get some crypto in your portfolio, we're gonna open up an exchange, a crypto exchange, just with this company called Coinbase. What's the difference between Coinbase and FTX? Like, I can't explain that to you because I'm just a...

• 17:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, they would never advise that. They would never do that.

• 17:20David Hoffman?

  But now, there is a buy this Bitcoin ETF button inside of their Charles Schwab brokerage, which they already have.

• 17:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  Exactly, all the other assets, right? So just allocate 2%, 3%, you know, that'll probably be the advice coming down the pike. David, this is really cool. What are we looking at here?

• 17:36David Hoffman?

  Raster Lee Rock, Ryan Rasmussen, fun fact, I went to college with him. Uniswap flips Coinbase's spot trading volume in Q1 and Q2. So, two quarters in a row has Uniswap been the number one source of liquidity versus Coinbase.

• 17:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  That is surprising to me. Is that surprising to you?

• 17:53David Hoffman?

  I mean, it's always been inevitable.

• 17:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  Man, I know we thought this and we predicted this, but like, wow, see it happen.

• 18:00David Hoffman?

  Yeah, it's nice to see it actually work out. Two quarters in a row, like, how many quarters can we get? Maybe?

• 18:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, four.

• 18:07David Hoffman?

  Forever?

• 18:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  Four in a year.

• 18:08David Hoffman?

  Forever is on the table.

• 18:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Forevermore.

• 18:10David Hoffman?

  Forevermore.

• 18:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  Coinbase will never exceed Uniswap now on?

• 18:14David Hoffman?

  You're doing great, but Uniswap's great, too.

• 18:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, what are we doing coming up next?

• 18:18David Hoffman?

  Coming up next, Rune Envisions Maker Dow on a Solana chain. We're gonna unpack that. I've actually got some pretty hot takes to give. Of course, Maker Dow has always been near and dear to my heart, and so I'm gonna give my perspective there. I think it's a pretty good perspective. Arbitrum is releasing Stylus. Stylus is coming to mainnet to do some multi-language building on top of Ethereum to route around the constraints of solidity. And another big win for DeFi in the court system. We're going to get to all of this and more. But first, a moment to talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make this show possible, especially Kraken, a preferred exchange for crypto in 2023. Go check them out if you do not have an account. Kraken Pro has easily become the best crypto trading platform in the industry. The place I use to check the charts and the crypto prices, even when I'm not looking to place a trade. On Kraken Pro, you'll have access to advanced charting tools,

• 19:03David Hoffman?

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• 19:48David Hoffman?

  but it also reduces gas fee volatility, providing a more stable foundation for Mantle's applications. The Mantle Treasury is one of the biggest DAO-owned treasuries, which is seeding an ecosystem of projects from all around the Web3 space for Mantle. Mantle already has sub-communities from around Web3 on-boarded, like Game7 for Web3 gaming and Bybit for TVL and liquidity and on-ramps. So if you want to build on the Mantle network, Mantle is offering a grants program that provides milestone-based funding to promising projects that help expand, secure, and decentralize Mantle. If you want to get started working with the first DAO-led Layer 2 ecosystem, check out Mantle at mantle.xyz and follow them on Twitter at ZeroXMantle. Is Maker DAO's Endgame on Solana? David, what are we looking at here?

• 20:31David Hoffman?

  Okay, so Rune Christensen puts out this tweet that like rocked the Ethereum community, and the broader crypto world, I say. And he just says, "The last phase of Endgame, Maker DAO has this Endgame plan." So this is the name of this plan. "Endgame is the launch of a native blockchain for Maker with codename NewChain." So like placeholder. of a name, calling it new chain. It will make the ecosystem more secure and efficient. After some research, I believe the Solana codebase should be considered as the basis for new chain.

• 21:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  Whoa.

• 21:02David Hoffman?

  Okay, so it's not, it has never been like, this is not new information that MakerDAO wanted to put Maker on a chain. That has been part of the fifth phase, the fifth and final phase of MakerDAO's endgame since, so that's not surprising, that's not new, that's not new information. People have just always assumed, oh yeah, you're gonna be a layer two on Ethereum, because MakerDAO was born on Ethereum. The MakerDAO project actually started, fun fact, before the first block of Ethereum. It's always been.

• 21:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wait, really?

• 21:29David Hoffman?

  Yeah, yeah, they started.

• 21:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  That is a fun fact.

• 21:31David Hoffman?

  They started making, the planning MakerDAO before Ethereum even launched. And so like crazy to think that when they talk about a new chain, they're not talking about like a layer two, especially during this like OP stack fork phenomenon.

• 21:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  First DeFi app I ever used, and actually DeFi pilled me through using this, this janky, janky version of MakerDAO back in the day.

• 21:50David Hoffman?

  Right, remember, remember Peth? Jesus.

• 21:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  Path, yeah.

• 21:53David Hoffman?

  Yeah. Okay, so then Rune just shocks the world, saying we're gonna use Solana as the codebase. Implying like, there's a lot of things that that implies, but we'll go through some of the technical details. Okay, so the purpose of the new chain is specifically to allow the ecosystem to use hard forks to gracefully recover from severe forms of governance attacks or technical failures. And allows also the system to deal with the eight years of technical debt in the MakerDAO protocol, so like, you know, clean slate for MakerDAO. New chain will contain the backend of Maker Protocol and its sub DAOs. So MakerDAO, sub DAOs, it's going from like a singular monolithic central bank plus commercial bank, all in the same system.

• 22:38David Hoffman?

  And it's breaking that out into just the central bank of MakerDAO, the issuer of DAI, and then sub DAOs, like its own commercial banking layer. So it's breaking these out into different DAOs, different orgs, and so becoming modular. And so the governance, the backend of these systems, the supporting infrastructure of this system will be hosted on NewChain. All user-facing products, like DAI, for example, the product of MakerDAO, and systems will be untouched and remain on Ethereum, or its Layer 2s, or wherever DAI exists out in the crypto landscape. And these, and DAI and other MakerDAO products, will be connected to NewChain through advanced bridges, secured by the Maker Protocol called two-stage gravity bridges. I don't know what these are. I'm

• 23:20David Hoffman?

  assuming it's just a bridge. The benefits of this is that this allows for the more advanced tokenomics of endgame, which Rune is calling neural tokenomics, which also was a topic of conversation, like neural tokenomics, what the hell is that? Well, this will benefit from having its own NewChain, and then allows the ecosystem to recover as much value as possible, minimizing value leaked to MEV and transaction costs. And also, he says that this provides Solana mainnet access to native Maker DeFi features in capital. And importantly, he says that we don't have to build it from scratch. We can just fork an open, existing source, open source protocol. Where, of course, like I said, the Ethereum community is like, oh yeah, you're just going to fork the OP stack. And Rune is like, no, I'm going to fork Solana.

• 24:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right. So a couple of things maybe to clarify here. So this whole NewChain idea, this is still many years out. And Rune kind of admits this. This is like future things. This is him saying, NewChain will be many years out. Its main purpose is to act as a secure and efficient backend of the system, but it's many years out. But there was, the big question, of course, is Rune said the S-word, right? And you know how tribal crypto is, right? And so everyone from Ethereum is like, why not the EVM, right? Like, are you abandoning Ethereum, just like, you know?

• 24:35David Hoffman?

  Well, it's not only that, but it's saying, why not the EVM? But the thing, the big crux is that he's not proposing an Ethereum Layer 2. He is proposing a brand-new Layer 1. Using the Solana codebase.

• 24:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  And again, this is a DeFi, like a marquee, blue-chip DeFi, been building on Ethereum since, you know, V1, died in the wool, kind of like Eth Bowl, and is kind of saying these things. So there's a question of, why not EVM, sir? This is Rune replying, "EVM is still the most important when it comes to building stuff for users, since that's where the users are. But for a specialized backend for maker-specific needs, it is not ideal. And solutions like Solana, or something like SAI..."

• 25:17David Hoffman?

  SAI, yeah.

• 25:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  Or something like SAI are a much better fit, is what he said. So why Solana, David?

• 25:23David Hoffman?

  So I think this is actually a pretty legit endorsement of Solana's tech. And I think even the tribal fighting from Ethereum versus Solana is actually not about Solana's tech. Like, Solana's tech is probably pretty strong. It, again, doesn't have technical debt, doesn't have baggage that the EVM has, like what happens...

• 25:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  You're talking about specifically the Solana virtual machine, like the SVM?

• 25:44David Hoffman?

  Yes, exactly. Yeah. And so like, when there's Solana people in Ethereum, people fighting, it's not over who's got the better technology. Technology is just like one thing that makes up a blockchain. But this statement is Rune saying, "Hey, this Solana tech's good, let's use that." And so, that's the motivation for why the Solana codebase. The interesting thing, and Rune does address this, is that he like vetted Cosmos as an alternative, which, if you're thinking about being your own Layer 1, and again, the reason why not an Ethereum Layer 2, is that even what Rune is saying is that MakerDAO wants to be able to fork, arbitrarily fork, its own chain to recover from governance attacks or any like failure of the backend system. So because DAI is, DAI is considered holy

• 26:28David Hoffman?

  in MakerDAO. It is the first-class citizen of MakerDAO. It is the purpose of MakerDAO. And so, anything else is secondary to MakerDAO, to DAI. And so, if we need to recover governance, for example, then we can fork the MakerDAO chain without disrupting DAI. And a Layer 2 actually doesn't give sufficient sovereignty over freedom of forking. It's still on-chain governance. And so what Rune is saying is that we want to be so incredibly sovereign that we can be maximally free to... Our chain as needed to make sure that governance is upheld by its social layer. So this is actually MakerDAO's social layer breaking free from shackles. And you would think that this would be, this is the Cosmos thesis.

• 27:11David Hoffman?

  Just build an app chain on Cosmos because you're beholden to no one. It's interesting that Rune did evaluate Cosmos and he says the major benefits of Cosmos. It's large and highly quality talented pool, range of independent developer companies, huge amount of existing cases successfully developing app chains using the Cosmos stack. Disadvantage is Cosmos not built around efficiency the same way Solana is. Cosmos doesn't have a strong central foundation like Solana has. But yet with understanding these, he still didn't say Cosmos, which is directly in violation of Cosmos's vision. It's a direct violation of the belief that he has about-

• 27:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  You mean Cosmos was hoping to win this one? Because it's very clearly a sovereign app chain and independent-

• 27:53David Hoffman?

  Yes, exactly. Yeah.

• 27:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. Well, okay.

• 27:56David Hoffman?

  So he's saying Cosmos, I see your vision and no.

• 28:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Would this mean like, you know, all DAI is backed by collateral? And if you were using sort of new chain, you're putting your ETH in new chain?

• 28:07David Hoffman?

  No.

• 28:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  And don't you lose? No. Okay. So that's not what this is mainly for governance and the kind of the backend stuff.

• 28:12David Hoffman?

  Correct. Yeah. There is liquidity. So each subDAO has its own token. And you could imagine like some Curve-like pool or some Uniswap liquidity pools on new chain to be the liquidity for MKR and the subDAO tokens. And because that's part of this, I think it's part of this whole like neural tokenomics thing. So liquidity and MEV would be on new chain while DAI and CVPs would be on Ethereum, Solana, whatever.

• 28:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, let's get some of the community reaction. Then I want your reaction and I'll kind of give mine to this. All right. So here's one data point here. Actually, a couple of hours after that, Vitalik Buterin-

• 28:52David Hoffman?

  Immediately after Rune tweets this, Vitalik Buterin dumps 500 MKR, all of his MKR tokens.

• 29:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's about 600K worth and swapped it-

• 29:03David Hoffman?

  A pretty clear statement of beliefs.

• 29:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  Swapped it for ETH. So he didn't say anything- publicly, but you can look at the on-chain data for maybe how he feels about this. This does seem like it's a it's some sort of statement of Vitalik's take on this.

• 29:18David Hoffman?

  So he did. He did make public statements. He went into the reflexor, not on Twitter. He went into the RAI, the for RAI reflexor fork of single collateral Maker DAO, but without the US dollar as the peg instead of its free-floating peg. And so kind of like trying to fulfill one of the original visions of Maker DAO before it's done all this development and directional progress. And so he goes into DAO into RAI, the RAI Discord and says, this has made me change my mind on one chain. I think it's somewhat more okay before than for the RAI community to have somewhat more activist activist governance than I previously thought. RAI previously has been all about ungovernance, zero governance and Vitalik saying, hey, you could guys, you guys could have a little bit more governance.

• 30:01David Hoffman?

  Not going all the way, but like being okay with doing more active governance to support stake ETH and ideally intentionally accepting only non-dominant forms of stake ETH. So not Lido stake ETH, other like Rocket Pool or anyone else down, down the long tail of stake ETH. And so he comes coming into the RAI reflexor Discord and is like, hey, there's like an opportunity for you guys here.

• 30:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  But is he also saying like implicitly with with selling this is he and last time you bought Maker MKR was April 2018.

• 30:32David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 30:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  According to kind of the on-chain data. So this is also a statement of like losing faith in MKR.

• 30:38David Hoffman?

  He said these words, if Maker DAO is torpedoing itself in weird directions, then it makes natural sense for RAI to move somewhat closer to the category of DAO governed, real world asset-backed stablecoins.

• 30:50Ryan Sean Adams?

  Here's another take. This is this one from one of the leaders of the Solana community, Anatoly. What did he say?

• 30:55David Hoffman?

  Anatoly says, Maker, considering Solana's tech is a win for open source. It has nothing to do with Solana's main net or Sol or ETH. I really hope people in the Solana community don't use this as a cudgel to attack Ethereum. Ethereum is awesome. I've got a take about this take later.

• 31:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  Very good. Okay, this is somebody from the Ethereum community. So this is Justin LaRue.

• 31:17David Hoffman?

  Run, Justin says, Run's forum post advocates for privately controlled app chain to, quote, "use hard forks to gracefully recover from the most severe form of governance or tax or technical failure." And then Justin's take here is that this completely negates all legitimacy achieved by initially building MakerDAO on a public blockchain. What he's saying is that, what happened to immutability? What happened to smart contracts? If we can, if we're just explicitly devolving back to the social layer, well, that's TradFi, isn't it? We're taking the immutability out of governance, which I think is a fair take.

• 31:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  Just the governance is on this kind of Solana chain. It's not the immutability of kind of the DAI smart contracts.

• 31:59David Hoffman?

  The DAI preserves its immutability, yeah.

• 32:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay. Here's another take. This one from Fumbar.

• 32:04David Hoffman?

  Yeah, Fumbar just kind of gives like the amalgamation of, I think, the average Ethereum person take. Maker, we will have an over-collateralized stablecoin. Users, great. Maker, you will back it, we'll back it by USCC. Users, wait, wait, why? Maker, we will spend the money on Rwandan carbon credits. Users, can I have a refund? Maker, governance for neural tokenomics will live on a Solana layer two. Oh, boy.

• 32:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's just saying, no one's asking for this. And these are kind of harebrained ideas, basically, is the take here.

• 32:33David Hoffman?

  Yes.

• 32:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  The carbon credits is in reference to part of Run's post about the end game, which gets into kind of like making DAI green money and that sort of thing. Carbon credits are mentioned there.

• 32:45David Hoffman?

  Yeah, the strategy there is to use collateral to legitimize crypto, which I think is valid, albeit political.

• 32:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right. Well, give your take, and then I'll give mine. So what do you, what's, what do you make of all this?

• 32:59David Hoffman?

  Okay, so my take is that I understand that this is unintuitive, but I don't think that people should immediately cast this off as an incoherent decision with regards to Maker's long-term vision. I think if you understand some of the social contract that MakerDAO was incepted by, you would be able to fit this into that vision, regardless of whether you think it's good or bad. Like you're free to still consider it bad, but at least it is coherent with one of the the early establishments of Maker Dall's idea of like, hey, let's hold dye of the highest regard. We have this emergency shutdown mechanism. Let's improve that. And so it is not totally incoherent. Maker Dow is saying that it needs even more sovereignty than in its ability to fork its own chain than what an Ethereum layer two can allow for.

• 33:40David Hoffman?

  And a maximally, as maximally sovereign as an Ethereum layer two can be, which is really, really sovereign, Maker Dow is saying that that's not enough. And this is a really, really big choice because it implies that social forking is more important than immutable finance, which is kind of a very core principle of crypto. And like we've covered dies, but dye will still remain as permissionless and censorship resistance as ever. On the Solana piece, this is an endorsement of Solana's tech, but not Solana itself. When people say the name Solana, they're referring to the Solana blockchain and also the Solana vision of a single shared monolithic state. One single state, one global state, one ecosystem, one block space.

• 34:21David Hoffman?

  A forking of Solana's codebase and spinning up a new secondary maker Dow app specific Solana chain is antagonistic to the Solana vision. The Solana product project wants to be one chain. Solana as a system is a maximist of itself. And so a Solana copy doesn't actually fit inside of the vision. It is a bull, is a bullish statement on the S V M, the Solana virtual machine as a growing ecosystem that stands in contrast to the E V M. And that is a story for a different day. That is something that we are thinking about coordinating a podcast around. So that's my Solana take on Cosmos. I think the real loser here is Cosmos. Cosmos is supposed to be the perfect glove to fit the Maker Dow hand that is waving around. And Maker Dow chose not to even join the Cosmos ecosystem.

• 35:05David Hoffman?

  And also I will say Ethereum is also a loser here. It doesn't get a Maker Dow OP stack chain. It loses the economic activity of Maker Dow and its sub Dow tokens. It does retain its supply of dye across its layer twos and layer ones. But maybe it has a less firm grip on future dye issuance. So Ethereum doesn't win. Solana doesn't win. Maybe the S V M does get a win. Cosmos doesn't win. Who does win? Who wins here? Whether or not Maker Dow wins, I think we will have to wait and see. In theory, DAI holders win because now they are buffered from any chaotic occurrences in MKR governance, but this is still theory, not in practice. We will have to wait and see. And then I will also finish this off by saying that this is just a proposal. This is up to the Maker Dow community.

• 35:49David Hoffman?

  If they wanted to do something different and go in a different direction, then that is free. This is not codified. This is not set in stone. This has to be accepted. And so I think the future is still very unwritten and we will see what plays. Those are my takes.

• 36:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  Good take? Good take? Do you want to hear my take?

• 36:06David Hoffman?

  I do.

• 36:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  I don't care about any of this.

• 36:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  I feel like people are just bored and they're making much ado about nothing. This is a proposal from Rune for something in the future. He may change his mind. Something may or may not happen. It's basically just the governance portion. He's effectively saying, "We're doing this governance portion in a sidechain." And rather than do an EVM, we're thinking of doing a SVM Solana. That's it. And I just, I don't think it matters very much. I felt like this was just Twitter being bored and having some, like, an excuse for like a little bit of tribal infighting. The other thing I'll say about Rune is he's very much a vision person.

• 36:53David Hoffman?

  Yes.

• 36:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  Right? So, big, like audacious kind of visions, contrarian things, sometimes-

• 36:59David Hoffman?

  Inside of Endgame is legitimately AI governance.

• 37:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's some crazy stuff, like neural tokens, like what? Like, how much of that is actually going to come into play? I remember even if you look at kind of Rune's early ideas around what DAI would be, what it was SI at the time, it was going to be an SDR, like a fiat, like, you know, a, not just the dollar, it would be like mapped to the SDR, which is like a basket of different stablecoins. You're not dependent. Like, some of the vision just doesn't always play out in the execution. And so that's, that's the other element. And then I guess lastly, I would say, it is interesting somewhat that Maker is becoming a bit more bank-like, I would say, a bit more- A bit more like Coinbase in sort of that spectrum of pure DeFi.

• 37:47David Hoffman?

  It is a step in that direction, although I will say it was a small step in that direction.

• 37:50Ryan Sean Adams?

  I think it's a small step in that direction. The bigger step in that direction is multi-collateral die, basically, and using real-world assets to sort of back your your stablecoin, right? If you want to be sort of purist and just on-chain, you do something like the original Psy, or you do something like Ry. And so they've already stepped in that direction. It's another step. But yeah, in general, I don't know. I, sorry, I didn't mean to dismiss what you were saying, David.

• 38:14David Hoffman?

  I think this is a classic because I have like 5,000 words to say about almost anything, and you're like, meh.

• 38:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, you know, it was a good discussion, and that was certainly, it was certainly had on crypto Twitter this week.

• 38:26David Hoffman?

  Yeah, for what it's worth, all of that take that I just wrote out just there, I was thinking about writing that into an article. And then, like, I came back from Burning Man, and I was like, oh, wait, no one cares about this anymore. We've already moved on.

• 38:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is interesting, though, this week. So another win for Solana that you mentioned. Visa has expanded its, Visa has expanded its stablecoin settlement to Solana. I do think we can consider this a win for the Solana community.

• 38:55David Hoffman?

  They're treating it as a win, that's for sure.

• 38:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, all right. This is Q Sheffield. He's been on the Bankless Podcast before. Of course, he is on the forefront of everything that Visa is doing with crypto and blockchain. And he says, "We are excited to announce that Visa has expanded our stablecoin settlements to the Solana blockchain." Do you think this is a big deal, David?

• 39:13David Hoffman?

  I'm having a hard time totally understanding if it's a big deal or not. I know that the Solana community would love for you to think it's a very big deal. Visa announcing that it's going to settle USDC on Solana. Yeah, that like, Solana is supposed to be for payments, instant transaction, blah, blah, blah. So that fits with the Solana vision. Visa formally integrating Solana is a very big deal. Visa has integrated other chains before that have not seen adoption. So they have, other chains have come and go. So this is like the opening of the door, but whether or not people go through the door is completely up to the future, and that is unwritten. I mean, Solana does have like a strong base of people and developers, and so perhaps compared to other previous chains that Visa

• 39:53David Hoffman?

  Has integrated with this. This one stands out amongst the crowd, but I think there the Solana community is doing massive victory laps. And I think that part is premature, although it could very well play out that yes, indeed, this does formally get adopted by the free market.

• 40:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  I think it's a big ish deal. I think it's a good win for the kind of the staying power of Solana for sure. One thing I would say when it comes to like USDC or anything that is is kind of like TradFi backed, basically, I mean, settlement assurances don't become that important, right? So it's like, I would always just be like, why use Ethereum if you're if you're Visa? I mean, if you have to, I guess, settle something that is crypto native, okay, but like, let's remember that any sort of stablecoin on Visa or even USDC itself is not ultimately settled on a network like Ethereum, or actually like Tron is the most used USDC stablecoin network when it comes to transactions. It's actually settled in the the legal system of

• 40:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  the United States banking system, because each of those dollars are just that they're tokenized IOUs that are actually backed by money in an account somewhere in a bank account somewhere. It's kind of like banked money using using crypto rails. So yeah, settlement will be all over the place. And I don't think settlement assurances are really prioritized by someone like Circle or USDC, like USDC or Visa. So that would be one thing I would add to that.

• 41:20David Hoffman?

  The reason why I'm like, kind of hesitant about this is that, like, previously, like, Visa integrated with Stellar Lumens. I think they had a partnership with Ripple at some point in time. Both of those just came and went. So I'm like, okay, great. Congrats on the partnership. Show me the money. Right? Like, let's see the traction.

• 41:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  David, you are so harsh on the Solana community, and they will be sure to point that out, my friend.

• 41:40David Hoffman?

  I'm sure they will. Yeah.

• 41:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  How about this?

• 41:42David Hoffman?

  I'm their favorite.

• 41:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  Was this an L for base? We were just talking about a couple of weeks ago. How? Good. How smooth the launch of the base layer two went. And earlier today, they're reporting out, this is the base Twitter account. There was a delay in block production.

• 41:59David Hoffman?

  Delay in block production.

• 42:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  To internal infrastructure requiring a refresh. Basically, the base blockchain was offline for some period of time. How long was it?

• 42:08David Hoffman?

  One hour and two minutes.

• 42:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, why? What's, you have any takes here?

• 42:13David Hoffman?

  I don't know. But you can go to base status, status基base.org. I found this website while I was looking at this. Actually, kind of cool website to look at base, just like uptime stats. And so, yeah, they just said that there was a global issue, a critical issue. It stalled out. There was a major outage for one hour and two minutes.

• 42:36David Hoffman?

  But overall, 99.92% uptime, so.

• 42:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  What does this mean when?

• 42:41David Hoffman?

  If base goes down like seven or 18 more times, then it'll finally approach Solana level of downtime.

• 42:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wow. What's, what happens when, when something like base goes down, right? So if I have assets, if I have ether on base, which I do have some, a little bit. What happens when there's an outage? That means all of my, like, I guess my user interfaces are kind of dead. But do I still have the ability to withdraw funds back to ether?

• 43:08David Hoffman?

  So let me compare this to the Arbitrum non-outage, but non-finality event that happened a while ago. Like, for a while Arbitrum blocks were still being produced, but it was not submitting state roots to the Ethereum Layer One for some reason.

• 43:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  That happened a while ago, right?

• 43:24David Hoffman?

  Yeah, that was a number of months ago. And so in that instance, you were still able to use Arbitrum completely uninterrupted. You were just not getting Layer One settlement finality for like, I think, 90 minutes or something. And then they fixed it and then it was fine. That in that moment of time, you could have actually still bridged out of Arbitrum. You could have, like, your total, your usage of Arbitrum is totally un, un, it was totally fine. This base blocks stopped happening. The chain stopped moving forward. So for one hour and two minutes, you could not do anything on base. You couldn't trade friend shares. You couldn't, you couldn't withdraw using the normal mechanisms. You could have done a forced exit of the inclusion. That was, that is and always is possible.

• 44:09David Hoffman?

  The Solana community would say that like, well, show me the button. And I mean, they're right, there is no like easy button to write a script automatically to withdraw your things, even though it is technically possible, like me as a non-technical person, I'm not enabled to do that.

• 44:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  But if this happened for any sustained period of time, as long as there's a way to do that, there would be user interfaces that are spun up that would support those. But you're saying for Base, there is a way to do that right now.

• 44:33David Hoffman?

  There is a, yes, so forced withdrawals are live for all rollups, all optimistic rollups. But there's just no button for it. So like, I mean, it, the critique is like, great, it's technically possible. But if the end user isn't technically, have the technical skills to do it, then what does it matter?

• 44:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  I don't understand that because somebody will just obviously spin up, it's the open source community. Someone will spin up a button. That's not that hard, right?

• 44:55David Hoffman?

  There is a script that Arbitrum made that is available on their GitHub for the outside world to like turn that into a UI. And they gave a grant to Blockchain at Berkeley to go do that. And, but it hasn't been done yet. And like, why hasn't it been done yet? Because we haven't needed to, like the free market doesn't do any things that people won't pay money for. And so like, without a need for this button, then the button hasn't been created. It'll be created eventually. I know Layer 2 B has this on their roadmap.

• 45:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, I'm, I'm excited for a rollup to actually go down for some period of time where we get to actually test the button. I totally want to test the button. I want to, I want to see how this works, soup to nuts. Because that is the promise of a rollup, right?

• 45:32David Hoffman?

  It is the promise.

• 45:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  If your mainnet didn't go down, if a layer two goes down, okay, that's kind of crappy. But I have the ability to withdraw my funds. That is the entire purpose of a rollup. So I want to see that soup to nuts confirmed sometime. So.

• 45:44David Hoffman?

  Should we have a rollup on to do a fire drill?

• 45:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, we should do a fire drill.

• 45:48David Hoffman?

  That's a great, that's a fire drill?

• 45:50Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, no one's going to want to do that.

• 45:53David Hoffman?

  Optimism is be like Arbitrum, you do it. And Arbitrum is gonna be like, ZK Sync, you do it. And ZK Sync is gonna be-

• 45:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  Hey, if any rollup listener is willing to do a fire drill, we will broadcast it live on Maglist.

• 46:02David Hoffman?

  Yes, we will. Absolutely will.

• 46:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  See if it works. All right. Well, this was great news this week, David. I saw this in, you know, the back of the tornado cache, everything else happening in the court system, developers getting arrested. This is a win for DeFi. What are we looking at here?

• 46:16David Hoffman?

  Court sides with Uniswap over class action lawsuit. So, Southern District of New York Judge Catherine Polk Falalia, Falalia, sorry. The judge who's also in charge of the Coinbase case has thrown out a class action lawsuit against Uniswap, ruling that software, Uniswap, cannot be held accountable for the losses of its users

• 46:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  Thank you.

• 46:37David Hoffman?

  or the damages of third parties.

• 46:39Ryan Sean Adams?

  Obviously, and thank you.

• 46:42David Hoffman?

  So this original complaint was filed last year that alleged that Uniswap founder Hayden Adams, Andreessen Horowitz, and Paradigm, all Uniswap investors, were responsible for, quote, rampant fraud on the exchange and pushed for Uniswap to register with the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority. This is an Onion article, bro.

• 47:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  Who are the plaintiffs here? Who's pressing the charges? Just random names here. I guess Uniswap users.

• 47:08David Hoffman?

  Class action lawsuit. Yeah.

• 47:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  Of course, targeting where the money is, right? So you get the VCs and the founder.

• 47:15David Hoffman?

  Makes sense. So the judge stated, "Due to the protocol's decentralized nature, the identities of the scam token issuers are basically unknown and unknowable, leaving plaintiffs with an identifiable injury, but no identifiable defendant."

• 47:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wait, wait. The complaint was that there are scam tokens on Uniswap, and I went and I bought one, and it's your fault that I went and I bought that token.

• 47:37David Hoffman?

  It's Uniswap's fault.

• 47:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's Uniswap's fault. And all of the people being charged here, that I went and made a stupid financial decision and bought a token that, you know, represented a dog, and it dropped to zero. And it's their fault.

• 47:51David Hoffman?

  Yes, yes, you are correct. The plaintiffs launched the suit hoping that this court might overlook the fact that the current state of crypto regulation leaves them without recourse, but that does not allow them to blame Uniswap for their injury. Yeah, I just, the topic of responsibility just goes so deep in crypto. Trevor doing this suing is just trying to abscond from responsibility.

• 48:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, totally. Yeah. Okay. So what does Hayden say here? Huge win. Long live DeFi. One longtime fear of mine has been bad legal interpretation, he says, of our complex technical industry. It's highly motivating to see US courts hold up arguments I felt deeply for years. Here's some of the best, most based comments from the court case. This quote, "It defies logic that a drafter of computer code underlying a particular software platform could be liable for a third party's misuse of the platform. As discussed, smart contracts are self-executing, self-enforcing code." Wow, David, this judge gets it. Again, same judge on the Coinbase case, which seems to be good news. "They," the plaintiffs, "now sue the defendants, hoping that this

• 48:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  court might overlook the fact that the current state of cryptocurrency regulation leaves them without recourse," saying something we've been saying for a very long time. Like, there is no coherent cryptocurrency regulation. This one too, "The court declines to stretch the federal securities laws to cover the conduct alleged and concludes that the plaintiff's concerns are better addressed to Congress than to this court." The court's saying, "We're not going to decide, we're not going to stretch securities law to meet the plaintiff's request here. That's for Congress to decide." That totally makes sense, too. "No plaintiff would sue the New York Stock Exchange or NASDAQ for tweeting that its exchange was a safe place to trade after that plaintiff had lost money due to an issuer's fraudulent schemes."

• 49:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  Exactly. So somebody buys a stock on the NASDAQ and it drops to zero and it's fraudulent. You're not going to sue the NASDAQ for that. Anyway, it goes on. A bunch of good news, a bunch of common sense being injected through these court cases and you love to see it. This is precedent being set.

• 49:58David Hoffman?

  It is like moderately frustrating that like stuff like statements like this that you and I were saying in like 2019, 2020. It's like you can't sue software and then like we actually have to go to court over that very obvious like, ugh. Can we just skip to the end where we win?

• 50:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, well, it feels good. I mean, somebody talking some common sense. David, speaking of common sense, what do we have coming up next?

• 50:17David Hoffman?

  Coming up next, a firm with $5 trillion asset under management releases an investment thesis for Ether. Phew, get me hot and bothered. Kevin O'Walkie coming back to Gitcoin. We're going to talk about this. And Justin Bieber releases a 2015 hit as an NFT and will share streaming revenue with its holders. I kind of teased the punchline there, but we're going to talk about all that. But first, I wanted to talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make this show possible, especially MetaMask and MetaMask Portfolio to help you prepare for the bull market incoming. Hopefully, knock on wood. Let's go hear from them right now. MetaMask Portfolio is your one-stop shop to manage your crypto assets and to tap into DeFi all in one place. And the most important part of that experience, buying crypto, obviously. MetaMask Portfolio's buy feature enables you to purchase crypto easily without going through centralized exchanges.

• 50:59David Hoffman?

  Designed with you in mind, you can fund your wallet directly in just a few clicks with convenience and simplicity. What happens when you press the buy button? Rather than being limited to a single payment provider, MetaMask brings together a bunch of vetted, trustworthy providers to present you with customized quotes for your crypto purchase. Once you've funded your wallet, you'll be able to plug into DeFi with all the money verbs like swapping, bridging, and staking. But first things first, you need skin in the game. Head over to metamask.io-portfolios to buy crypto the easy way. Are you planning to launch a token? Is your token already live? And are you granting your employees and contractors vesting token awards? And are you trying to figure out how to take care of taxable events for your team? Toku makes implementing a global token incentive award simple.

• 51:40David Hoffman?

  With Toku, you will get unmatched legal and tax support to grant and administer your global team's tokens. Toku will help you navigate across the lifecycle of your token from easy-to-use pre-launch token grant award templates to managing post-cliff taxable events with payroll. For legal, finance, and HR teams, it's a huge complex task to have to comply with labor laws, payroll, and tax obligations, tax reporting, and crypto regulations in every country that you employ someone. It's difficult, time-consuming, manual, and costly, and it's drawing more attention from global regulators and governments. Toku makes it simple for leading companies in the space: Protocol Labs, Hedera, Gitcoin, and many more. So if you want some help navigating the complex world of token compliance, go to toku.com/banklist or click the link in the description below.

• 52:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  Quick update on the tornado cash developer who was arrested now two weeks ago. Roman Storm, he pled not guilty, not guilty.

• 52:31David Hoffman?

  This doesn't really come as a surprise. I 100% understand that Roman Storm doesn't think he's guilty. I also think he's not guilty. And so this is just the next step and was probably going to be a long court battle as well.

• 52:43David Hoffman?

  I mean, the, one of the themes of this episode, I would say is crypto is winning in the courts. It was, we did, we had one last week and the week before, like grayscale, Gary Gensler, there's some other like class action lawsuits are getting walked back. So a recent theme is that crypto has taken the, taken some dubs in the legal world. I would want to say that we are winning against the SEC. We're winning against the CFTC. We're winning against stupid class action ambulance chasing lawyers. This case is not those.

• 53:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  Be a big test.

• 53:12David Hoffman?

  This is the Department of Justice. It is, these are the biggest, biggest people.

• 53:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's also, it's also financial surveillance crimes. It also gets into kind of national defense when you invoke North Korea. And so this is a different type of battle. You know, some have called this kind of the final boss. This feels a little bit more like the final boss, so we'll, we'll see.

• 53:31David Hoffman?

  So we're stacking up some dubs, but this doesn't mean that this one is just going to follow suit. This is going to be a hard one.

• 53:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  This one seems like the most obvious, open source developer. I mean, privacy code. Anyway, we'll be covering this one closely. You guys can count on that. Polygon just launched their super net kit, David. This sounds a lot like super chains from optimism. What is this launch?

• 53:52David Hoffman?

  Exactly what you just said is their chain development kit, which, I mean, is actually the right name for these things. Chain development is like a, it's not an SDK, but for a chain. So Polygon has launched super nets. Optimism has super chain. ZK sync has the ZK stack, hyperchains. Arbitrum has orbits. Polygon has super nets and now the super net kit is out and about. A important point of difference between optimism, super chain, or this is a ZK EVM. So this is going head to head with ZK sync and Starkware, which released their super chain kit not too long ago.

• 54:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  So allows anyone to spin up a chain. It's a ZK rollup type chain and it's all connected through polygon technology, basically. So this is their version of a super chain. It's the super net. David Rollups on the move this week. This this notice from Arbitrum as well. I was really looking forward to this. This is for the devs. This one's for the devs. The release of Stylus. What is Stylus?

• 54:48David Hoffman?

  Stylus is a coding environment, I think. Is that the right word? That is not based on Solidity, but based on WASM, Web Assembly, which is like, I would say the status quo for devs out there to build stuff.

• 55:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Like Web2 devs. Web2 devs. They all build against WASM.

• 55:03David Hoffman?

  So we're taking like Web2 dev infrastructure and popping out Solidity and popping in whatever devs want to choose to build on. So it just opens up a larger supply of developers to build on Arbitrum. And that's great.

• 55:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  I mean, so basically the value proposition is rather than learning this esoteric crypto web web three thing called the EVM, you just bring your existing skills over.

• 55:27David Hoffman?

  Is that? No, it's still the EVM.

• 55:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, but you basically you get to use kind of whatever coding language compiles to WASM, which is not Solidity, basically.

• 55:36David Hoffman?

  So it's Solidity, right? Solidity, I mean, it's esoteric, but it's also pretty close to JavaScript, which is pretty common, but like, you know, other people like C++ and Rust.

• 55:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  David and I talking about is like, yeah, Solidity's easy. Just learn it. Come on.

• 55:47David Hoffman?

  It's super easy.

• 55:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's so easy. It's very cool. And the other thing, this has been a promise for a while. Do you remember back in, God, I feel like a grandpa crypto here. Back in 2019, we're talking about deploying WASM, you know, on the EVM. There's like an EF team working on this. Anyway, the layer twos are the ones who brought across the finish line and actually built it up, which is great to see here.

• 56:10David Hoffman?

  So something I don't understand about how this works, but Rachel from Arbitrum says Arbitrum Stylus flashes fees across four categories. Compute is 10 to 100 times cheaper. Memory is 100 to 500 times cheaper. And other, other cheap things.

• 56:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  Cheap things.

• 56:26David Hoffman?

  Cheap things, yeah. I don't know how that works, but cool. Oh, damn, we need to do an episode on this.

• 56:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's getting cheaper. It's getting more optimized. What is Starknet doing? They're doing some things too.

• 56:37David Hoffman?

  Starkware Starknet Stone Prover is now open source. So a prover is a very important piece of ZK rollups. You need to prove zero knowledge proofs. You have to prove them. And that's a part of completing the circuit. And now Starkware's Stone Prover is now open source. So this is like ZK thinks Boojum or Polygon's Plankey 2. This is Starkware's Stone, and it's now open source.

• 57:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's good. They're all going open source. Love to see it. Rocketpool is launching some new stuff. What have they got on the menu?

• 57:09David Hoffman?

  This whole thing is a very long post. Jasper put a thread together, but TLDR is a big architecture redesign. There's 10x scalability and on-chain governance, birth of Rocketpool Layer 2s. There's a bonding curve for the lower ETH Rocketpool nodes. I sadly didn't have enough time to fully dive down into this. I apologize to the Rocketpool community, but Jasper put a tweet thread together that summarizes all of this. It's a big update. It's a very big update.

• 57:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  David, Kevin Iwaki is now returning to Gitcoin. This is his announcement. He says, "I'm excited to announce my plans to return to Gitcoin. The DAO has made some solid strides into centralizing things. At the same time, I think some of the community's criticism of Gitcoin is valid." So he's coming back to help them turn a corner together. I think that is bullish for Gitcoin. Sometimes you need that leadership injected back in. And of course, Kevin has great takes on what public goods means and how Gitcoin can transform the world. So I'm bullish on that. And I imagine you are as well.

• 58:07David Hoffman?

  Very, very bigly, yeah. We love the Kevin Iwaki. He's also going to be at Permissionless, giving a talk, one of my favorite talks that he's going to update. And also, I'm sure he's going to talk about his return to Gitcoin as well.

• 58:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right. I've been waiting for this the entire podcast. Tell me about the Beebs. Justin Bieber, he's got an NFT, and you said you were a fan. You didn't say you made it one.

• 58:24David Hoffman?

  Of the NFT drop.

• 58:26David Hoffman?

  I'm a fan of the drop mechanism.

• 58:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  You're not a fan of Beebs? You said you were ambivalent towards Beebs.

• 58:31David Hoffman?

  There are a couple of songs.

• 58:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay.

• 58:32David Hoffman?

  The Justin Bieber, Kanye, Good Friday, Christmas in Harlem song? Oof, he kills it. That's some early Bieber. That's actually a Bieber deep cut.

• 58:39Ryan Sean Adams?

  OJ.

• 58:39David Hoffman?

  And I don't really know if I like mainstream Bieber.

• 58:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I was like, I hadn't heard of that. But, okay, so tell me about the NFT, though. That's what the crypto people want to hear.

• 58:46David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so his song "Company" from 2015 is being tokenized. I do not know this song. 2,000 NFTs, $28 each. One of the reasons why I like this is like, you know, it's a pretty modest price. Point 01-

• 58:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  Price in ETH, though.

• 59:00David Hoffman?

  Point 017 ETH, yeah. So that's actually the real price is .017 ETH. So all of these got minted out, all 2,000 of them, max per user 10. So Justin Bieber made $56,000, which, for what he could do, I think is completely modest and respectable. Every single NFT individually receives .0005% of royalties when the, when company is streamed. And so if it's ever played on Spotify or makes money wherever, however music makes money these days, you, as a single NFT owner, you get .0005%.

• 59:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  So it's a cash flowing asset. It's a, it's a capital asset, then, you might say.

• 59:40David Hoffman?

  Does that make it a security?

• 59:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, I'm sure they've worked around that. Oh, actually, look at this.

• 59:45David Hoffman?

  I'm not sure if they did.

• 59:45Ryan Sean Adams?

  US citizens cannot access minted royalty claims due to regulatory uncertainty.

• 59:50David Hoffman?

  US citizens were barred from, uh-

• 59:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, man. Well, good thing Beebs is Canadian.

• 59:54David Hoffman?

  I love how they just explicitly say, "due to regulatory uncertainty." Like, that's actually a big step forward from just banning it. Because it's like, ways like, Gary Gensler is not letting you do this.

• 1:00:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. They, we should just put his picture in front, like, and it's just be like, this man does not want you to have this NFT.

• 1:00:09David Hoffman?

  Instead of saying if US citizens, like, you try and click the button and Gary Gensler's face just comes up and it's like, stop right there.

• 1:00:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  Ah, yeah. He's like, he's pointing his finger at you. You can't have it. That's really what's happening here.

• 1:00:20David Hoffman?

  That's exactly what's happening.

• 1:00:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, we've got some good news, I think, coming out of Fidelity as well. This was, this was my tweet here. The world's third largest asset firm with $4.2 trillion in assets just released. This is it. This is what they called the paper. Thesis for Ethereum. Here are some of the major sections. ETH as an aspiring money, ETH as a store of value, ETH as a yield-bearing asset. The company is Fidelity, the second-largest assets-under-management firm in existence. And they've got their Ethereum investment thesis. I skimmed through this, David. It's pretty good, I've got to say. There are some references to the Ultrasound Money website, believe it or not, multiple references. I'm almost surprised they didn't use Bankless

• 1:01:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  as a source for some of this, but I saw some of our energy inside of these narratives, for sure. Ryan's trying to collect his receipts. No, I mean, I'm not saying that this was us, but it kind of was us. Anyway, can ETH be considered a money the same as Bitcoin? Oh, I should say some context, too. Fidelity, for a very long time, they've been involved in crypto, but specifically Bitcoin. And they've almost been like a Bitcoin-heavy, I wouldn't say maximalist, but Bitcoin-heavy shop. And so also seeing Fidelity see the light on Ether as a store-of-value asset is great to see as well.

• 1:01:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  So they get a lot of it right. I would have some quibbles with some of what they said, but let me give you some takes here. Ether technically has unlimited supply parameters, which are kept within a range depending on the number of validators and burn. That is correct. It seems unlikely that any other digital asset could improve upon Bitcoin as a monetary good, because Bitcoin is viewed by some as the most secure decentralized, sound digital money. So that's another quote from it. So you could see they're still pretty bullish on the Bitcoin side of things. Nonetheless, this was a fantastic report, and you can see them kind of gearing up maybe for future ETFs, future financial products around Ethereum as well. David, we've invited them on the show, actually.

• 1:02:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  So they're going to come on Bankless and talk about this report with us. And that's why we were not cited. If they ever listen to the ultrasound money episode, they know anything about that.

• 1:02:40David Hoffman?

  Where do you get your information?

• 1:02:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  I, I think this is bullish. And you know, when I saw this, it was for me, it was, um, wow, what, how things have changed from the last bull cycle, 2018, 2019, we were just like fighting for the existence of this asset. And now, you know, we've got major financial institutions writing papers on it and getting it like 80 to 90% right from my perspective.

• 1:03:02David Hoffman?

  This is just great Ether ETF fuel.

• 1:03:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  I think so.

• 1:03:06David Hoffman?

  Hey, why, why, why are you suggesting I buy this Ether ETF thing?

• 1:03:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  Go read the fidelity report.

• 1:03:11David Hoffman?

  Oh, there, here's a report from fidelity. Here you go. Go read this.

• 1:03:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:14David Hoffman?

  Go learn about ultrasound money.

• 1:03:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  Or go listen to Bankless Podcast.

• 1:03:17David Hoffman?

  Or go listen to Bankless.

• 1:03:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is, this next thing is maybe a sign of things to come. A little bit worried about it. Privacy coins are now outlawed and delisted from exchanges. This is a Binance exchange.

• 1:03:29David Hoffman?

  Exchange in Belgium.

• 1:03:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  The country's Belgium, of course. So.

• 1:03:33David Hoffman?

  Starts in Belgium, though, and it goes out from there.

• 1:03:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. So Monero, remember Monero? Mobile coin, Zen. Um, I don't see Zcash, but, um, no privacy coins. Can't buy privacy coins. This, this worries me, David.

• 1:03:48David Hoffman?

  Yes.

• 1:03:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  I hope this is not a sign of things to come.

• 1:03:50David Hoffman?

  This is a war on privacy. The, it's an encroachment. I mean, Monero inside of Belgium on Binance is very far away, but that, you know, it starts there and it doesn't stop until we fight him.

• 1:04:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yep. Um, David, some cool things coming out of Metamask this week. They shipped a sell feature. Do you see this inside of the Metamask portfolio?

• 1:04:11David Hoffman?

  Buy, only buy.

• 1:04:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  Don't you want the option?

• 1:04:13David Hoffman?

  Only buy.

• 1:04:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, you gotta sell at some point, don't you? No, you don't.

• 1:04:17David Hoffman?

  It would be a first. I mean, I've definitely hit the sell button, but like not in a, not in a meaningful capacity.

• 1:04:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  Anyway, what's cool about the sell button, uh, in Metamask portfolio is you can actually sell back to your bank account.

• 1:04:29David Hoffman?

  Oh, Regi is not supported yet. Great.

• 1:04:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, United States minor outlying islands. I can just put US. The US is supported.

• 1:04:36David Hoffman?

  VPN are you on, bro?

• 1:04:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  Uh, I'm not telling you.

• 1:04:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  I need to tell them all my secrets here. Yeah. So you can pick your state and you can exit directly to a, a bank account if you still have one of those. If you're, if you're a hypocrite and you still have a bank account, it wouldn't be you, huh?

• 1:04:51David Hoffman?

  Can't imagine. I wouldn't even know. My land, my 82 year old landlord takes USDC.

• 1:04:57Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, yeah. Anyway, pretty cool release.

• 1:04:58David Hoffman?

  He doesn't, he doesn't do that.

• 1:05:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  I know that.

• 1:05:01David Hoffman?

  Neither does the IRS.

• 1:05:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  Pretty cool release from MetaMask. David, what else we got coming up?

• 1:05:07David Hoffman?

  Coming up next, we've got some questions from the nation. Why don't we ever talk about Polkadot? Why don't we talk about Polkadot, Ryan? We're gonna talk about Polkadot for the first time, and it's gonna be about why we don't talk about it. "How is Burning Man?" is a question that somebody is asking.

• 1:05:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I wanna ask you that.

• 1:05:21David Hoffman?

  And if you are still in crypto and you haven't lost your private keys, you are very well positioned for the next decade, according to a take who might be given by this guy here, Ryan Sean Adams. So all of that and more, but first a moment to talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make the show possible. You know Uniswap. It's the world's largest decentralized exchange with over $1.4 trillion in trading volume. You know this because we talk about it endlessly on Bankless. It's Uniswap, but Uniswap is becoming so much more. Uniswap Labs just released the Uniswap Mobile Wallet for iOS, the newest, easiest way to trade tokens on the go. With the Uniswap Wallet, you can easily create or import a new wallet, buy crypto on any available exchange with your debit card with extremely low fiat on-ramp fees, and you can seamlessly swap on mainnet, Polygon, Arbitrum, and Optimism.

• 1:06:04David Hoffman?

  On the Uniswap Mobile Wallet, you can store and display your beautiful NFTs, and you can also explore Web3 with the in-app search features, market leaderboards, and price charts, or use Wallet Connect to connect to any Web3 application. So you can now go directly to DeFi with the Uniswap Mobile Wallet. Safe, simple custody from the most trusted team in DeFi. Download the Uniswap Wallet today on iOS. There is a link in the show notes. Arbitrum is accelerating the Web3 landscape with a suite of secure Ethereum scaling solutions. Hundreds of projects have already deployed on Arbitrum One with flourishing DeFi and NFT ecosystems. Arbitrum Nova is quickly becoming a Web3 gaming hub, and social dApps like Reddit are also calling Arbitrum home. And now, Arbitrum Orbit allows you to use Arbitrum's secure scaling technology

• 1:06:46David Hoffman?

  to build your own Layer 3, giving you access to interoperable, customizable permissions with dedicated throughput. Whether you are a developer, enterprise, or a user, Arbitrum Orbit lets you take your project to new heights. All of these technologies leverage the security and decentralization of Ethereum and provide a builder experience that's intuitive, familiar, and fully EVM-compatible. Faster transaction speeds and significantly lower gas fees. So visit arbitrum.io where you can join the community, dive into the developer docs, bridge your assets, and start building your first app with Arbitrum. Experience Web3 development the way it was always meant to be: secure, fast, cheap, and friction-free.

• 1:07:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  Questions from the nation this week, this one from CryptoRooMD. It goes on, thanks us for what we're doing and asks the question, "Why don't we have a bull case for Polkadot? It's really similar as the Cosmos hub thesis and as fast as Solana. I can't see any money theory for Dot, but I think it's a good competitor." This is a related question as well, asking us to bring on Polkadot and Moonbeam. So some people in the blacklist community asking about Polkadot. Maybe the meta question here though is, why haven't we done a big episode on Polkadot? Or why don't we talk about it as much? What's your answer to that, David?

• 1:08:00David Hoffman?

  There's many different reasons for this. I would say first and foremost is that like Polkadot occupies this space that other chains also occupy. And in my opinion, Polkadot kind of like fills the worst of both worlds space, not the best of both worlds space. So it's kind of like a hybrid between Ethereum and Cosmos. And I actually kind of just think you should just pick one, either do Ethereum or do Cosmos. But occupying the middle space, I think you kind of get the worst of both worlds. Like Dot isn't money, they correctly identified that. Gavin Wood, like, I wouldn't call him an aligned actor. He like raised a bunch of money with Parity. They did an Ethereum client and then they forked off and it all felt very mercenary and kind of leveraged Ethereum for his own means. I

• 1:08:45David Hoffman?

  don't exactly enjoy the genesis story of Polkadot. And overall, I haven't seen too much real meaningful adoption in Polkadot. I could be, I could have a blind spot. There have been like a handful of times of blacklist citizens in our discourse saying, "Hey, like, I'd like to do an episode on Polkadot. Like, why have you guys done one?" Granted, we did schedule an episode with Gavin Wood to do this episode.

• 1:09:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:07David Hoffman?

  And then he canceled on us.

• 1:09:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, if he heard you talking just now, we'll never get Gavin Wood on now because the reason he canceled was actually, we were informed it was because some past things I had said, my Twitter timeline against Polkadot.

• 1:09:20David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  And like literally, like my shit is tame, dude.

• 1:09:24David Hoffman?

  Yeah, it was very tame tweets. So like somebody, some PR manager from the Polkadot ecosystem like went through Ryan's tweets and was like, "Hey, you tweeted this about Polkadot and we don't like it." And it was like, It wasn't glowing, but it wasn't bad.

• 1:09:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  Money or something like this.

• 1:09:37David Hoffman?

  Yeah. And so, and so like, then they wanted to throw us some other Polkadot person like, no, we want, we want Gavin Wood.

• 1:09:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  I would, I would still love to do that episode.

• 1:09:45David Hoffman?

  I'd still do it.

• 1:09:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  I, I think you're right, David. I just, so the one thing, a couple of things I would say on this too, to actually say, we can't cover everything. So we have to sort of choose.

• 1:09:54David Hoffman?

  Crypto's so big.

• 1:09:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  So, so it could be we're missing huge things in the Polkadot community. And the way it would bubble up and surface to our attention is if there were use cases, if there were apps, if there is things being built and.

• 1:10:06David Hoffman?

  I don't, I don't know. Why would I put money on Polkadot? I don't know what I would do there.

• 1:10:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  I know there are some apps. So people are going to say like, oh, but haven't you tried this, this and this? They just haven't gotten big enough relative to other things that are going on.

• 1:10:18David Hoffman?

  What's the biggest stablecoin on Polkadot? I have no idea.

• 1:10:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  But if anyone's listening has the ability, would love to do a show with, with Gavin Wood, if they still want him to come on.

• 1:10:27David Hoffman?

  Always has been welcome.

• 1:10:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. David, how was Burning Man? This is a question from a Bankless Citizen. I'm, I'm going to ask it to you too. Uh, how was Burning Man?

• 1:10:36David Hoffman?

  Burning Man was great, bro. Uh, I had a ton of fun.

• 1:10:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is you. This is you and your dad, right?

• 1:10:42David Hoffman?

  This is my, me and my father. Yeah. Uh, not only is that me and my father, but that is my grandfather, his dad's Navy jacket.

• 1:10:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wow.

• 1:10:49David Hoffman?

  I actually never met my grandfather, so it's kind of cool.

• 1:10:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's very cool.

• 1:10:53David Hoffman?

  Yeah. So like, uh, there's like a meme of Burning Man, people saying like, you have to go to Burning Man. And then I go to Burning Man. It takes me a couple of days, but I'm like running around the Playa on my like LED bicycle with LEDs all over my jacket. Cause that's what you do on the Playa. And then like, and I'm seeing everyone else running around the Playa. The Playa is the desert. It's like this very fat, flat, um, salt flat. Uh, and I'm like, oh, okay, I get it. Uh, there's like a little bit of an aha moment of Burning Man.

• 1:11:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  What is it? I don't, uh, I don't.

• 1:11:20David Hoffman?

  I'm so glad you asked. I cannot explain it to you in such a brief amount of time because we have a podcast that we need to get to in 20 minutes. Um, however, I did write a 5,000 word article that is going out on the Bankless Newsletter yesterday from the time of recording, today, Thursday, and also will be out on the podcast feed. Uh, the parallels, the, the, the short TLDR, the pitch for why you should go read or listen to that. Is that Burning Man, like crypto, is a rabbit hole. And when you go down the Burning Man rabbit hole, at the very bottom, you actually poke out the other side into the crypto rabbit hole. Like, these things connect very deeply. These are big social movements. And they are alternative social platforms for scaling certain cultures. And Burning Man is doing its job, and crypto is doing its job.

• 1:12:04David Hoffman?

  And these things are actually parallel. They're parallel. And so I'll say, like, if one of these movements succeeds, either Burning Man or crypto, it actually is conducive to the other. So this is like, well, like, I don't expect people to become Burning Man people, burners. It is worthy to understand what powers Burning Man. Burning Man started in 1987. In the first few, like, five years, it doubled in size. And then it's been growing like 5% to 15% year-over-year growth for like almost 30 years, bro. Why? Why? Like, what power is it? What powers Burning Man? Why? Where does its growth come from? Like, let alone the hundreds of regional events that happen all over the world. It is a decentralized social movement that wants to change the world.

• 1:12:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  I gotta admit, what's interesting about this is you kind of talking about Burning Man, like evangelizing for it and talking about your excitement for it. This probably is what crypto sounds like to people who aren't in crypto. Because like, you're saying it, you're saying these words. And I'm just like, I just don't get it.

• 1:13:03David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:13:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  Because I haven't experienced it. I haven't read your piece, I haven't done any research. So I have these like media-driven narrative impressions of what Burning Man is. And I think there's like this, this impression of what Burning Man is right now, which is like, oh, it's a place where Silicon Valley bros go and just like do mushrooms. You know, like, what?

• 1:13:22David Hoffman?

  That's not wrong.

• 1:13:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, so like, and it's just kind of weird hippie-like culture. And then what they're going to do is, once they, they do visit this thing, they'll come back and tell you how amazing it is.

• 1:13:32David Hoffman?

  Exactly.

• 1:13:33Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, that like, that's what you're doing right now.

• 1:13:36David Hoffman?

  I think, I think I have good writing skills. I think if you read my article, I think it's one of the best ways to accept Burning Man, the Burning Man vision for what it is. And then so like, the article is titled Burning Man Through The Crypto Lens. So if you are a crypto person, you will be able to understand Burning Man. At a very deep level.

• 1:13:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, it's also interesting because now I get to feel what a normie feels like when they hear about crypto. They're invited to a bankless podcast. All right, we got some takes of the week. David, this first one is from Vance Spencer regarding a socket investment. That was a big investment that they made this week. He says regarding socket, I continue to believe that the way the market thinks about L2s is wrong in the media medium term. Probably doesn't matter where your contracts are deployed, or if you have your own L2, if the contracts are networked and socket is how to get those connected. Just some background, socket is kind of like a interoperability, bridge type tech, connect all the L2s, that sort of thing. Vance goes on, said another way, the interop protocols will accrue more value than the L2s themselves over the longer term, especially if there are

• 1:14:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  a lot or too many L2 chains. The investment, this investment in socket is a view on the likely fragmentation of contracts over too many chains and the value of networking them. Okay, so one thing to say is Vance, of course, is a VC. This is a bag that he bought. So he is, of course, excited about socket and what it's doing. But

• 1:14:56David Hoffman?

  We are also investors in socket.

• 1:14:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's true. Yes, angel investors. But I also think that this is interesting take, which is very contrary to something that that I believe, which is that actually L2 superchains will be the main value accrual mechanism of this new frontier that we're building out in crypto. Vance is saying, uh-uh, that's not true. It's actually the interop protocols themselves. It's like the sockets and the bridging tech layer themselves. What do you think about this?

• 1:15:26David Hoffman?

  I think that there's likely a tension between these two things. So you have the optimism superchain, you have like all the superchains, like I just list them all, like ZKSync, blah, blah, blah. Everyone's doing a superchain. And there's going to be individual singular one-off chains as well. So not only are there like perhaps a plethora of superchains, but that's also, they also have like, what about Aztec? That is going to be a single chain. Like, what about all the other single specific chains like Starkware, Starknet? So there's in addition to the superchains, there's also individual chains. And so while I totally agree that the growth of superchains will be how interoperability happens, like you're just elevating the problem to one dimension. higher and it's still the same problem of interoperability between superchains and independent chains. There's a tension between these two things.

• 1:16:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I guess my take is so. So again, you're saying a little bit of column A, a little bit of column B. My take, though, is superchains will be like power law winners. And they, within the superchains, will kind of solve the interoperability problem themselves. Like, I don't think there's going to be like, you know,

• 1:16:24David Hoffman?

  I think that what that means, though, is that there's actually going to be one superchain that is a power law winner. Because if there's multiple superchain winners, then you still need their interoperability.

• 1:16:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  I think we get like three to four big economic zones, similar to, you know, how we have like big economic zones, you know, today. We have kind of like the Western, Europe and America economic zone. We have like, you know, China, Asia economic zone. Anyway, who knows, though? He could be right. This is what we're exploring.

• 1:16:51David Hoffman?

  Between this socket thesis playing out, there are other socket alternatives competitors out there. So there's more than this, this one.

• 1:16:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  Like Layer Zero would be one. I mean, there's a lot of big valuation ones.

• 1:17:03David Hoffman?

  Live, Leafy is one as well. Maybe Chainlink CCIP, maybe we'll do a show on that.

• 1:17:10David Hoffman?

  But what was I going to say? Oh, yeah. So like one of the big like things that the Solana people will pound their chest about is like single shared state because of the composability. This is like Ethereum fracturing into many, many layer twos to achieve scale and decentralization and sovereignty over your chain. And then socket and superchain type energy, like reforming the composability back together.

• 1:17:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, yeah, that's true. Well, this is another take. This one's mine. Do you want to read it?

• 1:17:34David Hoffman?

  Sure. Ryan Sean Adams says, if you're still in crypto and manage to hold your private keys through all the scams, rugs, hacks, phishing, fake yield, and populist demagogues, then I think you're going to do just fine this century. It's everyone else I'm worried about.

• 1:17:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  I feel like so hardened. I feel like we are kind of like the veterans on the frontier. Like, we're learning about security, rug pulls, you know, populism, how, you know, what to trust online, all of these things in a very accelerated timeline. And these are all skills that everyone else is going to learn, even and need to learn for the rest of the 21st century. Even things like Your private keys, right? I look at like, um, I don't know, password management for like, you know, my legacy banks and, you know, financial accounts. I'm like, oh my God, you guys are so, this is so far behind.

• 1:18:25David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:18:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  So if you can hold your private keys, uh, you're doing just fine. And if you haven't, if you haven't been fished yet, or even if you have been fished yet, maybe that's a good learning lesson in itself. But, um, I think these are all 21st century skills that we're all gonna need pretty soon.

• 1:18:41David Hoffman?

  I agree.

• 1:18:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  David, what do you bullish on, man?

• 1:18:43David Hoffman?

  Okay, I've got, it's right behind me. Um, it's a picture. I'm gonna pull it out as soon as I tell the story. Okay, so I tweeted out this photo that you see on screen. Uh, oh boy, that's a lot of stuff. And this is, this is like a classic backpacker's picture where they put, lay out all of their gear before they go backpacking. So this was in May, right before I did like my four months.

• 1:19:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, it's a huge amount of stuff.

• 1:19:02David Hoffman?

  Yeah, right. A lot of, a lot of stuff. Actually, that was, that was actually, there was more stuff. Anyways, so someone, this hooded Pepe, uh, replies to this and goes, is this Kath Simmered approved? Tag and tags this individual Kath Simmered. No idea who Kath Simmered is. But I click in and I find, uh, if you want to go, yeah, and I find that she's an NFC artist, a photographer. And she has this mint that is currently live and two thirds minted out, which is a piece titled Above the Noise. And I just love it. Um, fun fact.

• 1:19:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  Does she take this photo?

• 1:19:32David Hoffman?

  Not only did she take that, this photo, that is her.

• 1:19:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is a real photo?

• 1:19:35David Hoffman?

  As a, it's kind of, uh, she is a photographer, digital artist. So this is a composite. So it's a number of photos slapped together and that's kind of like her deal. Um, she's, she's a hybrid adventurer photographer, digital artist. The first money Ryan and I ever made was actually as photography. Me and my dad would just go backpacking and I would bring my Nike on and I would take some pictures. And that's like, kind of like the first skill set I developed as a young adult. Uh, and like I sold these photos as prints and then, and then I went to college and like the, that was like, kind of how I paid for like, you know, slush fund money in college. I would take like sorority pictures.

• 1:20:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  Do you ever do weddings?

• 1:20:11David Hoffman?

  I never did a wedding, no. But then going and doing that, like doing, taking like sorority photos in college like took the soul out of it because I wanted to do landscapes.

• 1:20:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:21David Hoffman?

  But landscape, like monetizing my landscape photos was like really hard. And I wasn't, I mean, I was for what I was, I was an okay photographer, but I'm not a professional. And so like, I didn't have a mechanism to generate revenue as a photographer. And then I also got interested in psychology and then the blah, blah, blah, blah, fast forward. Now I'm a podcaster. But I find this NFT man, I'm like, wow, I'm about to go climbing all these mountains. And there's this NFT photographer who is this adventurer person taking mountain photos, selling them for ether. And so I mint it and so I mint it and purchased it via Kath Simmer. And then I watched this.

• 1:20:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is back in July.

• 1:20:59David Hoffman?

  This is back in July, yeah. She has this crazy, the NFT now, the NFT media company, NFT, Bankless NFT, I'll call them, did this like great video essay about Kath Simmer, the artist, which I highly recommend. We'll put it into the show notes. So I watched that and like, wow, this is really cool. And so I hit her up on Telegram. Fun fact, she's also a dick butt holder. So she's in the dick butt Telegram with me. And then, okay, so I'll pull out the picture.

• 1:21:27David Hoffman?

  And so I bought a print and now I've got, now I've got it, right?

• 1:21:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wow.

• 1:21:31David Hoffman?

  It's super cool.

• 1:21:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's great.

• 1:21:33David Hoffman?

  Now I, now I have to go frame it and put it up. I can't put it in frame, but here we go.

• 1:21:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  So the moral of the story is, I don't know, you can monetize your hobbies?

• 1:21:43David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I'm bullish on, I know this, so this is a very like big 2021 take, but I'm bullish on new monetization mechanisms for NFT artists that didn't previously have them and also artist collector relations. Because now like, now her and I just like chat about stuff and it's been pretty cool.

• 1:22:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's creator economy stuff, man. That's the...

• 1:22:04David Hoffman?

  Right, so like in 2021, it was theory and this is practice.

• 1:22:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, that's true. We're not in the fervor of, you know, JPG mania here. So we can actually be cool and sober and appreciate the art a bit more.

• 1:22:18David Hoffman?

  Oh, and the title of the piece, Brian, is Above the Noise? While you and I are talking about, man, there's a lot of dumb bankless haters out there. I'm gonna stay above the noise. I'm like, oh, I thought all of it like woofed together very, very well.

• 1:22:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's awesome. You know, another thing I was thinking, by the way, is I'm so glad we don't have to fight the FUD that NFTs are bad for the environment this cycle.

• 1:22:37David Hoffman?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:22:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  You know, because...

• 1:22:39David Hoffman?

  We're gonna get something else, but at least it won't be that.

• 1:22:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:43David Hoffman?

  Alright, that was what I'm bullish on. I'm bullish on NFTs in a 2021 capacity. What are you bullish on, Ryan?

• 1:22:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  I am bullish on new product we're releasing. It's called Claimables, alright? It's this bankless... This is a little sneak peek here, okay? These are my wallets on the Bankless website. This isn't staging, so I'm actually, I don't know if I'm allowed to show this screen, so I'll flick off it really quick. But this is based on, we acquired a company called Earnify, which we've talked about on the roll-up a few times. And what it does is you plug in your addresses and it identifies all of the on-chain opportunities that you might have. So were you eligible for an airdrop? Were you eligible for an NFT mint? An allow list, for instance? Did you deposit some funds inside pooled together and you won a prize maybe that week? Well, you just plug your addresses into Earnify

• 1:23:33Ryan Sean Adams?

  and it tells you what you've earned, what you can claim. This is a product that we're now integrating into the Bankless website. It's called Claimables. We're very excited about it, alright? That is dropping next Monday. If you're a Bankless citizen, you'll have access to this.

• 1:23:50David Hoffman?

  Well, you'll have access to this. So this last week, Connect Airdrop went live. And so we actually have the numbers for people who have loaded up their address inside of the Bankless app. $62 million, US dollars, fiat dollars, are claimable of the Connect Airdrop to Earnify subscribers. So we know that Bankless listeners, citizens, whoever... Pays for the for the service $62 million is up for grabs. There the last we checked $18 million of the expiring soon TM Arbitrum airdrop is still yet to be claimed, which is how we know that like there's A, this is valuable and B, there's work to do. It's y'all still need to claim $18 million of Arbitrum. What are you doing?

• 1:24:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:31David Hoffman?

  You listener.

• 1:24:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, me, they don't know about it. This is like back to kind of tools that, um, you know, we're building because we want ourselves is I don't have a way to like scan through all of my wallets and identify all of the things I'm eligible for apart from this tool, apart from Earnify. And now we're building in claimables. So anyway, bankless citizens, uh, if you've been waiting for a reason to upgrade to a bankless citizenship, that this might be it. There's always a link in the show notes for you. Of course, you get the bankless premium feed as well.

• 1:25:02David Hoffman?

  RSS feed, no commercials. The ad free bankless premium feed. Get through the podcast seven minutes faster.

• 1:25:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, David, I got a meme of the week for you and this, this is going to take a little bit of explaining. I think it also ties into the, the moment of Zen. Okay. But, um,

• 1:25:17David Hoffman?

  Oh, I didn't know we had a moment of Zen.

• 1:25:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, you know what? We're going to make this the moment of Zen. So I'm going to get through disclosures first. Then we're going to go through the kind of the meme, the moment of Zen. So a few things to disclose. David and I are investors and advisors to optimism. We're also members of the Rocket Pool O Dow. We mentioned Rocket Pool today and I'm an advisor to Polygon. I'm an investor in Reflector Labs and Arbitrum and also Socket, as we mentioned, uh, gotta let you know as well, we are long-term investors. We're not journalists. We don't do paid content. There's always a link to all full bankless disclosures in the show notes. And of course crypto is risky. You could lose what you put in, but we're headed west. The frontier. It's not for everyone, but we're glad you're with us on the bankless journey.

• 1:25:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, let's set up this moment of Zen. David, this is what I was thinking. This video clip from Rick and Morty was what I was thinking the entire time we were doing that episode this week with Dom.

• 1:26:07David Hoffman?

  This unreleased episode that bankless listeners haven't heard.

• 1:26:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yes. And we're talking about this concept called blobs and blob space. And I was thinking, how am I going to explain this to my family? Like the podcast that I just did? And, uh, everything I heard Dom talking, we were talking about polynomials, we're talking about. Dank sharding and proto dank sharding. Erasure coating. Erasure coating and. Erasure coating is not real. I just made that up. No, actually, that's. It is real. That's real. That is a real one. But you wouldn't know. Yeah, it's all of these crazy words. And I was just thinking the entire time when Dom was talking, I was thinking of this clip from Rick and Morty. We'll play it now.

• 1:26:46Speaker 02

  Everyone has a plumbus in their home. First, they take the dinglebop and they smooth it out with a bunch of schlimm. The schlimm is then repurposed for later batches. They take the dinglebop and they push it through the grumbo where the fleeb is rubbed against it. It's important that the fleeb is rubbed because the fleeb has all of the fleeb juice. Then a schlami shows up and he rubs it and spits on it. They cut the fleeb. There's several hizards in the way. The blamps rub against the chumbles and the plubus and grumbo are shaved away. That leaves you with a regular old plumbus.

• 1:27:33Ryan Sean Adams?

  Uh, why don't you do it?

• 1:27:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  Because Murphy's barking. Hold on. Okay, I can do it. Shut up, Murphy! Hold on.

• 1:27:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's a good blooper. God, Murphy?

• 1:27:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  You hear it? Is it loud? Yeah, yeah, I hear it. I can do it. No, no, he's almost, he's almost done. I can feel it.