Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 114: Civic Order

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia! This week, K & G recap Episode 114: Civic Order. Karen covered the Hillside Stranglers and Georgia discussed the murder of Dana Bradley. Tune in for all-new commentary, case updates and more! Whether you've listened a thousand times or you're new to the show, join the conversation as we look back on our old episodes and discuss the life lessons we’ve learned along the way. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode! Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Now with updated sources and photos: https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. The Exactly Right podcast network provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics, including true crime, comedy, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Karen Kilgariff?

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• 1:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Hello.

• 1:48Karen Kilgariff?

  And welcome.

• 1:48Georgia Hardstark?

  To Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

• 1:50Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the show where we look back on our old episodes with all new insights, case updates, and pop culture buzzwords.

• 1:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Today, we're rewinding to episode 114, which we named Civic Order.

• 2:02Karen Kilgariff?

  This episode originally came out on March 29, 2018.

• 2:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's get into it, the intro of episode 114.

• 2:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Welcome to My Favorite Murder.

• 2:15Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Karen Kilgariff.

• 2:17Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Georgia Hardstark.

• 2:18Georgia Hardstark?

  And this is the podcast.

• 2:20Karen Kilgariff?

  But tells you.

• 2:23Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 2:24Karen Kilgariff?

  It tells you.

• 2:27Georgia Hardstark?

  It tells you what?

• 2:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Kind of the worst things you could possibly hear.

• 2:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 2:31Karen Kilgariff?

  It really does just tell it right into your ear hole. It just says it right into your eardrum.

• 2:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, so if you're laying in bed at night trying to get something to fall asleep to, this is it.

• 2:42Karen Kilgariff?

  I had a dream that Tenacious D broke up. Am I wrong?

• 2:49Georgia Hardstark?

  That was out of the blue.

• 2:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Literally, a picture just passed through behind my eyes in my brain. A picture, I must have fallen asleep in front of something that informed my dreams.

• 3:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I hope they didn't.

• 3:04Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, they've written nine songs about breaking up.

• 3:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, that's probably what it is.

• 3:08Karen Kilgariff?

  I watched some, a weird rerun or something. Oh, you know what I was gonna do? This is a new corner.

• 3:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 3:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Because it's not a correction, but I did, I, I listened to the last week's mini-sode. And in thinking about the story of the man that was laying under the movie theater seats, because of course, we, much like the women it happened to, were shocked and surprised that there was a man laying under their movie theater seats for an entire movie.

• 3:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 3:37Karen Kilgariff?

  But, so we were laughing and stuff, but I did want to underline, if that ever happens, call the police immediately. Don't wait for movie theater employees to call the police. Don't wait for permission to call the police.

• 3:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 3:51Karen Kilgariff?

  You call the police immediately, because the person that lays under movie theater seats is only going to do weirder and more fucked up stuff afterwards.

• 4:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 4:01Karen Kilgariff?

  So I felt bad after I heard that, because we were laughing so hard.

• 4:06Georgia Hardstark?

  They did say in it that they talked to the manager and ultimately, we called the police.

• 4:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 4:11Georgia Hardstark?

  But I think they were just so shocked by it.

• 4:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly.

• 4:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:15Karen Kilgariff?

  As were we.

• 4:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And we didn't call the police either.

• 4:18Karen Kilgariff?

  We didn't, I, no, I actually, on the re-listen, I called the police. I called Burbank Police. I just wanted to say that, like, sometimes weird thing is not, you don't have to be touched or assaulted in any way. That deserved a police call, for sure. They should have felt 100% great doing that.

• 4:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Definitely.

• 4:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. I just, I guess, I don't know. Maybe that's too random, but I wanted to underline it.

• 4:41Georgia Hardstark?

  You've been thinking about it, holding it in. Now, there it is.

• 4:45Karen Kilgariff?

  If you don't know what, like, civic order behavior violates, you can still call the police.

• 4:52Georgia Hardstark?

  They'll figure it out.

• 4:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Weird, yes.

• 4:54Georgia Hardstark?

  They'll get the book out from the shelf, the Civic Order book.

• 4:57Karen Kilgariff?

  They'll pull it all down.

• 4:58Georgia Hardstark?

  And then, like, you know.

• 5:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Get into their police cruiser.

• 5:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 5:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Come help you.

• 5:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, now we have to have a different corner.

• 5:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 5:05Georgia Hardstark?

  That it's been asked of us.

• 5:10Karen Kilgariff?

  They're getting back together. They're getting back together.

• 5:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, is that Tenacious D?

• 5:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I love Tenacious D.

• 5:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, we have to talk about this wild, wild country corner.

• 5:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, fuck.

• 5:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Can people, yes, watched it, everyone.

• 5:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Guys, let's update a couple things. We heard about the lady's body that was found in the wall years later.

• 5:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you, amazing story. Combined everything, we, we got a lot of tweets about it.

• 5:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep.

• 5:46Karen Kilgariff?

  All the way up to and including

• 5:50Karen Kilgariff?

  this documentary that is incredibly done. Beautifully done.

• 5:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Brilliantly done.

• 5:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Did you watch the whole thing?

• 5:58Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 6:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Me neither.

• 6:02Karen Kilgariff?

  You didn't finish it?

• 6:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Can I tell you something?

• 6:04Karen Kilgariff?

  You don't like it.

• 6:06Georgia Hardstark?

  I find it kind of boring.

• 6:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Why do I hate everything?

• 6:10Karen Kilgariff?

  You always say that when it's the thing I love.

• 6:13Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 6:14Karen Kilgariff?

  You think it's because you think you need to do point, counterpoint?

• 6:17Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 6:18Karen Kilgariff?

  If I love it, you have to find something wrong with it.

• 6:20Georgia Hardstark?

  When did I know your opinion of it?

• 6:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, because I already did it as a story, so.

• 6:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, but I thought your story was interesting. Listen, I do think Sheila, though.

• 6:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Ma-aun, Aunt Sheila.

• 6:31Georgia Hardstark?

  I could just listen to her talk for hours. She did say one thing.

• 6:34Karen Kilgariff?

  That was a joke. That one?

• 6:36Georgia Hardstark?

  You know what she said to someone? I was watching it last night, trying so hard. I was, I watched episode one and Vincent and I were both like, wow, this is so boring. And then I was, someone else was like, it gets better. So I was like, okay, I'll jump to episode three. So I go to episode three, and it's still boring. But she does say to someone in a news report that, you know, well, what do you say to the people who blah, blah, blah? And she goes, tough titties.

• 6:59Georgia Hardstark?

  And I was just like, wow, that's who I want to be.

• 7:01Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, she really is kind of a great villain. I don't know, I like, I like a lady that's just like, bound and determined.

• 7:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. I just want it to be about, like, I guess I don't totally understand what the cult is about. Like, all they're doing is fighting people, but without any, like, not fighting for their.

• 7:20Karen Kilgariff?

  You know, they were fighting for, he was really into, like, sex. There was a bunch of sex stuff. And then there was, you know, there were kind of like Buddhist concepts, basically, where it's like, love yourself and love your fellow man.

• 7:36Georgia Hardstark?

  But carry an AK-47 around with you everywhere you go.

• 7:40Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, because they started getting, I think, I mean, I, you know, it's, it was just, it was a cult. Why, why would any spiritual leader have, was it 37 Rolls Royces? I think 37 is the right number. But like, that, that was his goal and dream, and then they made that happen for him. Like, all those things, there's no, logic isn't a big part.

• 8:01Georgia Hardstark?

  No, it's not like Heaven's Gate, where they're like, here's the thing we believe in. There's this, and there's this, and we're gonna get on fucking the Haley Pop and get the fuck out of town. And our human, you know, like, they had, like, rules and things.

• 8:13Karen Kilgariff?

  But it was, it, you know, it was that, it was out of that tradition that that would happen all the time. Gurus would pop up. Gurus, this was the person to listen to. This guy was smarter than regular people.

• 8:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 8:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Everybody, that's a human trait. We love to think there's one smarter person that should tell us everything, and we'll just do that, and then that'll be fine.

• 8:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 8:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Because whatever we're doing isn't working.

• 8:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 8:36Karen Kilgariff?

  And that's a great concept that's completely fucking full of shit.

• 8:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Because no one knows anything.

• 8:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, some people don't look good in maroon. Fucking take that shirt off, dude. Although, there were some insanely hot 70s guys in that documentary.

• 8:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, there were some very good-looking 70s people who had left their families to your fucking, like, the chick, the Australian chick who was just like, I was bored and I did this and that. And I'm like, I bet her kid has so many fucking issues now.

• 9:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 9:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Your mom just got bored of you in her life in the later days to fucking.

• 9:14Karen Kilgariff?

  It was so.

• 9:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Oregon.

• 9:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, exactly. They were like, you know what, I need to do this for me, though. It's that super selfish, like, late 70s me generation bullshit.

• 9:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 9:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Where everyone is like, this, I have to prioritize myself.

• 9:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 9:28Karen Kilgariff?

  So I'm gonna get divorced and leave all my children behind. It's like, okay. That's why helicopter parenting is what it is today.

• 9:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, because all of us kids who, who were left for maroon, fucking.

• 9:41Karen Kilgariff?

  For maroon fields of southeastern Oregon.

• 9:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Now, we're like, my mom did it wrong, so now I'm gonna do it this way.

• 9:48Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm gonna do it so right. I am your shadow, Caleb.

• 9:52Georgia Hardstark?

  And guess what? You're gonna hate your parents anyways, fucking.

• 9:56Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right, if they're not there, you hate them. If they're always there, you hate them. It's real hard to get that English just right on parenting.

• 10:03Georgia Hardstark?

  No, yeah, it doesn't work.

• 10:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Take it from us, we don't have kids.

• 10:08Georgia Hardstark?

  We did the smart thing and did neither. We parented neither way.

• 10:12Karen Kilgariff?

  I was always like, how could I have kids when I am merely a child?

• 10:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. What was the other thing?

• 10:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, well, this is just incidental.

• 10:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 10:20Karen Kilgariff?

  But I feel like people like a nice dentist update. Right?

• 10:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Always.

• 10:25Karen Kilgariff?

  It's because it's really the rags to riches story of me being so afraid to go to the dentist. And now I can't stop going to the dentist. Every time we talk to each other, I'm on my way to the dentist.

• 10:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 10:36Karen Kilgariff?

  I love to be like, sorry, I'm stepping into the dentist office.

• 10:40Karen Kilgariff?

  But

• 10:40Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like your agent, like, I have to go to my dentist office today.

• 10:43Karen Kilgariff?

  My highfalutin dentist office. So again, I went to visit my dentist, but I wanted to tell people this because the reason I didn't go for so long was because I thought that I was phobic of the dentist. I would have panic attacks in the dentist chair. And recently, and before I started going again, my friend Paige Hurwitz, whose parents were doctors, told me that lidocaine, which is the novocaine that they shoot into your mouth.

• 11:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Like a numbing, the numbing shit?

• 11:14Karen Kilgariff?

  The numbing shit that gets shot into your mouth. If you are allergic to it or have a sensitivity to it, your blood pressure drops. And the blood pressure dropping is in me the same feeling of starting a seizure or starting a panic, panic attack.

• 11:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 11:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Where, and I had it in the chair and went, oh my God, this is what she was talking about. Where I felt like I was falling backwards, even though I was already laying down. And I was like, whoa, whoa. And I, like, my hand went up really weird, but he didn't notice, thank God.

• 11:48Karen Kilgariff?

  But I was still wearing fucking Oakley blades. So it's not like I looked great or anything, but

• 11:54Karen Kilgariff?

  basically if you're afraid to go to the dentist or you have panic attack type feelings, it could be because you're allergic to lidocaine and you could ask them to give you something different.

• 12:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, shit, like heroin?

• 12:05Karen Kilgariff?

  You can get a heroin shot into your eye. And then you don't feel anything.

• 12:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Shots in your eye?

• 12:11Karen Kilgariff?

  For like eight hours. No, it's worth it. But I just like, once I learned that, I was like, oh, this could have saved me like six years worth of like stress about the dentist.

• 12:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Not going to the dentist.

• 12:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Avoiding it. Or when I used to go, I would be so freaked out. I was like, couldn't stop. I would hold my breath the whole time.

• 12:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 12:31Karen Kilgariff?

  It was really weird. Freaked me out.

• 12:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck that.

• 12:34Karen Kilgariff?

  That's my, you know what that is? That's like a PSA.

• 12:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 12:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 12:37Georgia Hardstark?

  The more you know about your teeth.

• 12:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Gling, gling, gling, gling, gling, gling. The more you know.

• 12:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, well, should we talk real quick about our, our announcement?

• 12:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Our big surprise?

• 12:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Our big surprise.

• 12:49Karen Kilgariff?

  We've been sitting on this one. Guys, we have lots of surprises.

• 12:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Lots of them that we just can't talk about yet.

• 12:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, but we have like four that are gonna blow doors once we can talk about them. Really exciting stuff coming up in the future.

• 13:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Everybody.

• 13:04Georgia Hardstark?

  But in the meantime, the one we can tell you is that we are, we finally have put together a, a fan club of sorts that we're calling the Fan Cult.

• 13:18Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a fan club.

• 13:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So that's gonna happen soon and we'll tell you more about it in the next couple of weeks, but it's gonna have like

• 13:25Karen Kilgariff?

  It's actually happening in like 10 days.

• 13:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 13:27Karen Kilgariff?

  It's happening very soon.

• 13:28Georgia Hardstark?

  It's gonna be very exciting. We'll tell you more next episode, but it's gonna be like exclusive merch that you can't get and access, first access to buy tickets to the live shows.

• 13:39Karen Kilgariff?

  And then like a message board and cool shit like that. Pictures, you know, video type stuff.

• 13:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Exclusive shit.

• 13:46Karen Kilgariff?

  We're actually getting our act together and putting a thing together for you so that if you care to have some next level interaction with this podcast, we're gonna give you some stuff.

• 13:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, there's gonna be a live video feed at Karen's dentist appointments. From, we're gonna get her hot dentist to put a camera. Or maybe you should have the camera on your head and it's just filming the hot dentist.

• 14:08Karen Kilgariff?

  So you can see when he goes, can you turn your head more to the right? It's, I'm constantly trying to turn away and close my mouth. So he's constantly trying to tell me to open my mouth more and turn my head so that I'm not basically turning my back on the appointment.

• 14:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, they'll know that soon.

• 14:24Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, it's exciting stuff.

• 14:26Georgia Hardstark?

  They get, and then I'll have a live feed of, I'll have a forehead camera on my forehead for when I take naps.

• 14:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Perfect.

• 14:32Georgia Hardstark?

  So you can just see Mimi sitting next to me sleeping.

• 14:35Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, this is show business, people. This is what you look for in entertainment.

• 14:40Georgia Hardstark?

  There's gonna be a Steven cam, a mustache cam on Steven.

• 14:44Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a tiny camera like in Honey, I Shrunk the Kids that travels through Steven's mustache.

• 14:50Georgia Hardstark?

  It has adventures.

• 14:51Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. It takes weeks and weeks.

• 14:53Georgia Hardstark?

  There's a creek. It meets new people.

• 14:55Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. There's goblins.

• 14:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep. There's cats, teeny tiny miniature cats.

• 15:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, we have to talk about what the, the person that drew the cartoon when we said that Steven's inception was he just grew out of the carpet? Oh my God. Do you, you don't have that person's name nearby, do you?

• 15:13Georgia Hardstark?

  I think I might.

• 15:14Karen Kilgariff?

  I think it's on our MFM. You sent it to us.

• 15:18Karen Kilgariff?

  A very talented person whose name we're about to say.

• 15:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Hold on to your butts, everyone.

• 15:22Karen Kilgariff?

  You get, it's a race. Steven and Georgia are both looking at that.

• 15:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Dylan the girl.

• 15:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck you, Steven. Dylan the girl.

• 15:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Dylan the girl made an inception, like cartoon of us, of Steven inception, of us freaking the fuck out while Steven grows out from the carpet. It's pretty hilarious.

• 15:39Karen Kilgariff?

  It was real good. Thank you.

• 15:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Thanks, Dylan the girl.

• 15:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Also someone, and I'm sorry, because I'm not, I'm looking at my phone and I won't race. I won't race the way these two do. Someone made, did you see that Photoshop where they put the Kate and Kate and Leo from Titanic into a sinkhole?

• 16:01Karen Kilgariff?

  It's real good. That's recent. Everybody's been, there's been lots of fun interaction on Twitter lately.

• 16:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Well, Instagram too.

• 16:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, yes. Instagram's also a great social media platform.

• 16:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Mine.

• 16:14Karen Kilgariff?

  What's going on over on Instagram?

• 16:16Georgia Hardstark?

  I think we got verified, which means just is that little blue check.

• 16:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's good. And that means that you can get cash anywhere in the city?

• 16:26Georgia Hardstark?

  No, it just means that you're better than your kids you went to high school with.

• 16:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, good. And do you email them and let them know that?

• 16:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, it lets them, Instagram lets them know on their own. It gets, sends everyone you went to high school with a notification.

• 16:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Great. And then it also sends everybody your social security number.

• 16:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 16:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Cause that's the new thing.

• 16:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Well, you don't need your social security number. You're a higher being who doesn't require government stuff.

• 16:47Karen Kilgariff?

  You're no longer defined by that number.

• 16:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly. So it's like here, you can have it if you want it now. Like it's up for grabs.

• 16:54Karen Kilgariff?

  I just in my mind had to tell myself three times not to say my own social security number. I'm not kidding.

• 17:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Isn't it like standing at the edge of a cliff and being like, don't, you're not, don't fall aboard, don't fall aboard.

• 17:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Do not do it.

• 17:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't blurt out your social security number right now.

• 17:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Like we're going live across the nation.

• 17:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 17:11Karen Kilgariff?

  The live show. That would be actually, do you think we could do that one day, Steven?

• 17:15Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 17:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Go live. You're crazy.

• 17:19Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I'm not.

• 17:20Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, we could do like a Facebook Live or even through the new fan page probably.

• 17:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Fan page live.

• 17:27Karen Kilgariff?

  That wasn't fake. I swear to God. I think that would be hilarious and really fun.

• 17:31Georgia Hardstark?

  And also on the Fan Cult, there's gonna be a Facebook Live.

• 17:34Karen Kilgariff?

  We're gonna do, um, once a week.

• 17:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Shut the fuck up. No, we're not.

• 17:39Karen Kilgariff?

  We're gonna come to you every morning from 5 a.m.

• 17:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Steven, can you edit this part just so we have it so we can play it to Karen every time? She's like, who the fuck made this decision to do this?

• 17:48Karen Kilgariff?

  When I'm laying on my couch, like, I'm not coming to that. Georgia's like, no, no, no. This was all your idea.

• 17:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yours.

• 17:54Karen Kilgariff?

  You did this.

• 17:55Georgia Hardstark?

  You.

• 17:55Karen Kilgariff?

  You did this to me.

• 17:56Georgia Hardstark?

  You took the camera out of Steven the mustache and put it directly on us live. That's what she wanted.

• 18:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Come on, everybody.

• 18:06Karen Kilgariff?

  I do think it would be cool if we could have a hotline.

• 18:11Georgia Hardstark?

  A hotline? Jesus, you're just adding so much.

• 18:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Just pick up a phone every once in a while and there's maybe there's somebody there like, let's go to.

• 18:18Georgia Hardstark?

  I feel like we could do, uh, like one, we could do a live hometown read episode or to put up on the fan page.

• 18:27Karen Kilgariff?

  You mean like I grab this microphone and run downstairs to find somebody on the street?

• 18:30Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 18:31Karen Kilgariff?

  A man on the street?

• 18:32Georgia Hardstark?

  No, we just read from a page live.

• 18:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Where?

• 18:36Georgia Hardstark?

  On the face, on, in the camera. Listen, I'm gonna get this together and I'm gonna make it, I'm gonna make sense.

• 18:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Bring it to me and make me see it with you.

• 18:46Georgia Hardstark?

  I see it here. I just don't have the hair. Not. Someone said they wanted to play Words with Friends with me and I said, but I think that that, they were being mean because

• 18:57Karen Kilgariff?

  You just wanna win.

• 18:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Attack?

• 18:59Karen Kilgariff?

  A little bit. That was an attack on you.

• 19:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Cause you know you're gonna win.

• 19:02Karen Kilgariff?

  You took them asking to play a game with you as an insult?

• 19:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 19:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 19:10Karen Kilgariff?

  How dare you? I can't, even when I, I've, I used to play Yahtzee with friends or with buddies. But I hated the idea. Every once in a while I'd play with a person I didn't know, just whoever was on there.

• 19:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 19:25Karen Kilgariff?

  And it creeped me out so much.

• 19:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Stranger.

• 19:28Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't like that idea.

• 19:29Georgia Hardstark?

  It's creepy. You're not supposed to talk to strangers, especially with Yahtzee words.

• 19:32Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 19:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Spelling your words with Yahtzee.

• 19:35Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 19:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't Yahtzee with strangers. Don't yachts with strangers?

• 19:39Karen Kilgariff?

  No. What was that supposed to be?

• 19:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't talk to strangers. Don't yachts to strangers. You know what I mean?

• 19:45Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 19:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Take it out.

• 19:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Do not.

• 19:48Georgia Hardstark?

  This is why we don't go live.

• 19:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Guys, this is, Steven, this is gonna be the one you don't have to edit.

• 19:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 19:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Watch this.

• 19:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Watch this. Here we go.

• 19:57Karen Kilgariff?

  We start practicing now.

• 19:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 19:59Karen Kilgariff?

  No more edits.

• 20:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 20:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Can't even imagine.

• 20:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Shit. Well, we do it live on, at live shows all the time.

• 20:06Karen Kilgariff?

  That is true.

• 20:06Georgia Hardstark?

  And we just knock those out of the park every single time. When there's a baby in the audience.

• 20:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh my God.

• 20:13Georgia Hardstark?

  You guys, there was a baby in the audience at the LA show.

• 20:16Karen Kilgariff?

  It was a noise that we heard. We stopped, we looked around. Was it you or me?

• 20:21Georgia Hardstark?

  It was like me, I think that was like, I think we both at the same time kinda went.

• 20:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Is that a baby? And then just someone raised a baby up over their head.

• 20:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Lion King style.

• 20:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Totally Lion King style.

• 20:33Georgia Hardstark?

  And it was just this cute little, oops, I just hit Mimi in the face. I'm sorry. Lion King style. And this baby was just staring at us and you and I then just both lost our minds trying to get the baby to smile at us in the most obnoxious way in front of 2,700 people.

• 20:50Karen Kilgariff?

  You'll hear it.

• 20:50Georgia Hardstark?

  And then the baby.

• 20:51Karen Kilgariff?

  LA Live?

• 20:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. It was quiet the rest of the time.

• 20:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Chilled out.

• 20:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Chilled out. Cool.

• 20:56Karen Kilgariff?

  That was a chill baby, but it was weird and crazy and creepy to, you know, say the F word in front of that. Probably, I would guess, eight month old baby.

• 21:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 21:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh guys, this is stuff that's happened to us that you weren't there for. That's the, that's a new corner called You Weren't There.

• 21:15Karen Kilgariff?

  And we're back. If we were marking time by documentaries, then this is the wild, wild country era of your life. What was that like? Do you remember?

• 21:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I wouldn't have guessed it was that far back, but

• 21:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 21:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Right?

• 21:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Eight years ago?

• 21:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Those new Plas brothers, they love doing just like random things all over the place.

• 21:36Karen Kilgariff?

  They'll do it all and they'll do it all over Silver Lake.

• 21:40Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 21:41Karen Kilgariff?

  That's how they do it.

• 21:42Georgia Hardstark?

  This is when the fan cult was born.

• 21:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's right.

• 21:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 21:46Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 21:47Georgia Hardstark?

  I forgot that it had a birthday. It just seems like it was always there with us.

• 21:51Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. And that's so funny. It's like, well, there's enough people where we should start a little club. That people would actually pay to be in a little club with us.

• 22:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Thanks, guys. Thanks for everyone who's ever joined the fan cult.

• 22:05Karen Kilgariff?

  We started a fan cult. So no one can ever take that away from us.

• 22:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Come at me.

• 22:09Karen Kilgariff?

  We have a Discord. Sorry.

• 22:12Georgia Hardstark?

  We're grownups. That's one step too far, Karen.

• 22:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, this was the show where I shared the information that I was having panic attacks in the dentist's chair. And then it was actually that I was being given Novocain and I should be given lidocaine.

• 22:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Is that like, I don't know why, like finding stuff like that out when you're an adult seems so either rare or just weird that no one ever figured it out before.

• 22:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, kind of infuriating. Like, how, why couldn't we get this onto YouTube in the first iteration of when the orchestra collapses right after that? You could have just come out with a little piece of information.

• 22:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Did it change anything for you?

• 22:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah. I mean, everyone's seen my gigantic veneers that I've had and love. It's one of my favorite purchases. But, I mean, I started going to the dentist all the time because I was in that chair.

• 23:00Georgia Hardstark?

  It just solved it. It just solved it.

• 23:02Karen Kilgariff?

  I, well, I had so much work to do. My old teeth, anytime anyone wants to talk about veneers looking fake, I'm like, great. I love how fake they look. Because my teeth before looked like I was a character in Les Misérables. It was fucking insane. One was chipped in half. They were yellow. They were short Irish teeth. Come on.

• 23:22Georgia Hardstark?

  No, you're, I don't think your veneers look fake at all.

• 23:25Karen Kilgariff?

  There's times where we're podcasting and I feel like I can't get my lips around my veneers.

• 23:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, me too. And they're real. But that's because they're so big. Mine are just big, you know?

• 23:34Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, the challenges.

• 23:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Truly. It's so hard for us.

• 23:38Karen Kilgariff?

  And still, we started a fan cult.

• 23:40Georgia Hardstark?

  And still, we persevere with that fan cult. You're welcome. There are good videos there now, too, by the way. I think everyone should know that we're like, not half-assing the videos we put up weekly.

• 23:52Karen Kilgariff?

  No, remember those unboxings?

• 23:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I love unboxing, but it got a little unpredictable.

• 23:59Karen Kilgariff?

  It wasn't very inspired. We had to have like a little game. That's the fun of it. What are we doing?

• 24:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. There's fun games now there. There's like fucking years, eight years of videos and all kinds of things there now. That's

• 24:13Karen Kilgariff?

  All kinds of things.

• 24:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Fan cult dot supercast dot com if you want to check it out.

• 24:18Karen Kilgariff?

  If you want to hear the secrets.

• 24:19Georgia Hardstark?

  If you're in that season of your life where you're ready to handle a fan cult, then check it out. Okay, let's get into your story because it's a fucking banger. It's one of the big ones. So let's get into Karen's story about the Hillside Stranglers.

• 24:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Who goes first this week?

• 24:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Karen Kilgariff. Also, The Alienist is now over and I would just like to say to everybody involved, great fucking job. I watched every episode twice.

• 24:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Nice.

• 24:56Karen Kilgariff?

  That means, Georgia, I thought it was boring.

• 24:57Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 25:00Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm gonna binge watch it. I'm gonna make myself sick and I'm gonna binge watch it.

• 25:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Do it. 100% because outfits are amazing.

• 25:08Georgia Hardstark?

  I want to be able to talk to you about it. God damn it.

• 25:10Karen Kilgariff?

  I'll talk to you.

• 25:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 25:11Karen Kilgariff?

  I won't stop talking to you because of this. Dakota Fanning rules it. The whole idea of it. At one point in the last episode, she walked up to tell the police chiefs something. She's like the first person, the first woman to work in the New York Police Department. I don't think it's based on a true, real person, although I could be wrong. But she walks up and she is wearing like culottes. It looks like it's supposed to be

• 25:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Pants.

• 25:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Pants. It's supposed to be like a long dress, but then you see that it's actually pants. It's the coolest thing. It's very subtle. And I was like, that fucking costume department nailed it hard.

• 25:50Georgia Hardstark?

  That'd be a fine costume department to work in, probably, huh?

• 25:52Karen Kilgariff?

  So many vests.

• 25:53Georgia Hardstark?

  So many vests. Highest shoulders you've ever seen.

• 25:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Insane shoulders. So much crazy. Like, it was a fascinating

• 26:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Well, we're supposed to watch it and then we'll talk to you about it.

• 26:05Karen Kilgariff?

  And then we'll all gather up.

• 26:07Georgia Hardstark?

  We'll meet back here live.

• 26:08Karen Kilgariff?

  We'll do a special live.

• 26:11Georgia Hardstark?

  It'll be great.

• 26:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Meet us live here.

• 26:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 26:15Karen Kilgariff?

  We're doing this. We're fucking going fully Regis and Kelly on this. I swear to God.

• 26:21Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm in. I mean, it's gonna be a disaster, but I love a disaster.

• 26:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Listen, Betty White started her career by doing morning television in LA. And they used to do morning television for five hours.

• 26:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 26:32Karen Kilgariff?

  So they'd go on the air, whatever, at 6:00 AM and then go off the air at like, and whatever, plus five.

• 26:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Somewhere around two? I don't know.

• 26:44Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know. That's all, that's what you get with live shit.

• 26:48Karen Kilgariff?

  So

• 26:49Georgia Hardstark?

  This is all you.

• 26:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, it's interesting that you started talking about the LA Live show because, and hopefully, well, I made a mistake at the live show in Los Angeles. As we talked about, I was nervous. But I had planned up until right before that I was gonna do the Hillside Stranglers.

• 27:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. You made a big mistake.

• 27:14Karen Kilgariff?

  And then I changed my mind because I was like, it's so awful.

• 27:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Awful and dense.

• 27:19Karen Kilgariff?

  The details, it was very dense. The details, whatever. So I switched it, talked about an awesome woman. You'll hear when you do it, whatever. But I actually told the audience I was going to do it and change my mind. Why I would do that, I have no, that's like one of the great rules of performance. You don't tell people what you're not gonna fucking do and give them the opportunity to be like, oh, I wish you had done that.

• 27:45Georgia Hardstark?

  You told them you weren't gonna do the Hillside Strangler and then instead you're gonna do some woman that they'd never heard of. And it was just like, oh, the baby was like, I'm out of here. Fuck this shit.

• 27:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, I paid good fucking money.

• 27:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, to be alive.

• 28:02Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I was talking about like the first city editor of a newspaper.

• 28:06Georgia Hardstark?

  It was great.

• 28:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Now I'm getting defensive. Anyway, I took all my research.

• 28:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Hey.

• 28:14Karen Kilgariff?

  And now I'm doing the Hillside Stranglers.

• 28:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 28:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Hi.

• 28:17Georgia Hardstark?

  How come neither of us have done it? It's crazy.

• 28:20Karen Kilgariff?

  It's, you know, I think these ones that, this is one of those ones, the cops didn't pay attention because the first three victims were sex workers and runaways. It's that thing that we, that happens in all of, the common denominator in these stories is people making a snap judgment on the value of a woman's life.

• 28:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 28:41Karen Kilgariff?

  And then deciding whether or not they deserve to have their murder prosecuted. It's like so frustrating. It feels so layered and shitty.

• 28:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And here we go.

• 28:54Karen Kilgariff?

  And that's what you tuned in for. Hi, everybody. So this, from October 1977 to February 1978, the city of Los Angeles and most of Southern California was paralyzed with fear. Women were being murdered and brazenly, I wrote that, dumped in the hills of Los Angeles, many times in full view. Now, that's a thing I didn't really understand until I started looking at pictures and researching for the show that I didn't do it at. Truly, like, it was this display. And it's so fucking creepy and crazy. And oftentimes, in the later, especially in the later ones, they would be dumped in the middle of like a neighborhood.

• 29:35Karen Kilgariff?

  So like, one of the victims, the guy walked outside of his house and sees a dead teenage girl naked and splayed out. And he went and threw a tarp over her.

• 29:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 29:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Because he's like, the kids are going to get, come, be leaving for school and come and see this.

• 29:51Georgia Hardstark?

  So you destroy evidence, but it's, but it's for, it's for the good of

• 29:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I mean, just because it's like, what the fuck is going on? And like, this is, it's so extreme. And so, and this was in the late 70s. And we've talked about those other murders, like the Freeway killers. Remember when there was, it was either two or three Freeway killers at the same time?

• 30:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 30:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, just, there was so much. Yes. Yeah. And so then this, this started happening.

• 30:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Jeez.

• 30:20Karen Kilgariff?

  So, their bodies were, I don't know why I wrote this like synopsis paragraph. I probably spent a really long time on it, too. So basically, when we're talking about the Hillside Stranglers, at first, the media was calling them the Hillside Strangler because they assumed it was one murderer.

• 30:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 30:40Karen Kilgariff?

  But secretly, the cops knew it was two because they were seeing where these bodies were placed. And they knew that one man couldn't be lifting, carrying, or placing these bodies where they ended up. But they didn't release that to the media because they knew that that would help them later on.

• 30:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 30:58Karen Kilgariff?

  But when they did find out who it was, it was a couple of cousins named Angela Buono and Kenneth Bianchi, two of the worst people that have ever existed.

• 31:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely.

• 31:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Just simply that.

• 31:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Trash people.

• 31:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, and I remember a while ago, starting to read the true crime book about the Hillside Stranglers and the details with which they described what happened to these girls and women in Angela Buono's house slash upholstery fucking shop are so upsetting and insane and extreme. I stopped reading the book.

• 31:38Georgia Hardstark?

  It's, they're sadists.

• 31:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 31:41Georgia Hardstark?

  It's torture.

• 31:42Karen Kilgariff?

  It's, they tortured all of them. And they, and Angela Buono especially, he's like the son of fucking Satan and Ann Coulter.

• 31:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Couldn't think of a bad woman bad enough. Bad enough.

• 31:56Georgia Hardstark?

  It works.

• 31:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, I think it works. He, he was, and okay, so he's born in 19, uh, October 5th, 1934.

• 32:05Karen Kilgariff?

  He was obsessed with sex from a young age and he, there was problems from the beginning. He obviously had a lifelong hatred of women.

• 32:18Karen Kilgariff?

  He, uh, had a criminal record by the time he was a teenager for sexual assault. Doing things like pulling down a girl's underwear, bragging that he had raped, women when he, or girls when he was 14.

• 32:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 32:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Like he was, he was fucked up.

• 32:38Karen Kilgariff?

  When he was 17, he married his high school sweetheart.

• 32:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, he had his high school sweetheart.

• 32:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 32:42Georgia Hardstark?

  How is that?

• 32:43Karen Kilgariff?

  The word sweetheart.

• 32:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it doesn't really, how about just the, the woman who's, the girl who stuck around him?

• 32:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, the girl that got like, it's almost like, you know, when Ricky Tiki Tabby, when the snake goes up?

• 32:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 32:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Hypnotized by the eyes? I think that's what it is.

• 32:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 32:57Karen Kilgariff?

  It's that thing where you're like, oh my God, this worthy Italian is paying so much attention to me. Oh, he just hit me in the face. Oh, wait, now he's sorry.

• 33:06Georgia Hardstark?

  He wants to marry me.

• 33:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Yo, yep. I would love to get married. Um, the magazines say I should.

• 33:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 33:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, okay, so he, um, basically he abandons his high school sweetheart after, uh, and, and her, and their unborn child.

• 33:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank God for her.

• 33:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Once he finds out, he knocks her up. Yes, exactly. Then he marries a woman named Mary Castillo. Again, domestic violence issues. Then, uh, not until he rapes their two-year-old daughter does she leave him? And then she goes back to him after that.

• 33:42Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 33:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm. Then at, at one, she eventually finds herself, he's, he handcuffs her and holds her at gunpoint. And then she finally leaves him. But it's like, that's why I couldn't read the book. I was just like, this is, who are these fucking people?

• 33:58Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 33:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Why doesn't a big truck ever hit that guy?

• 34:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Seriously? I mean, it probably has. Like, I bet there's a lot of people who have died that, like, were those people?

• 34:09Karen Kilgariff?

  That super deserved it?

• 34:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 34:11Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like the end of The Lovely Bones when the, the killer just gets.

• 34:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't, don't, don't, you're right, you're right. Read The Lovely Bones, though. It's fucking incredible.

• 34:18Karen Kilgariff?

  It's such a good book.

• 34:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Such an incredible book.

• 34:20Karen Kilgariff?

  It's such a good book. Um, and, and not a bad movie.

• 34:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah, that's a good movie.

• 34:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, okay, so, uh,

• 34:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Two-year-old.

• 34:31Karen Kilgariff?

  A two-year-old. It's so filthy and, and like, and he's just pathological.

• 34:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Depraved.

• 34:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Um, so of course, he becomes a car upholsterer in 1975.

• 34:42Georgia Hardstark?

  What else are you gonna do with this fucking stupid idiot?

• 34:44Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, think about that, too. When you have to be an upholsterer, it's all that like punching.

• 34:49Georgia Hardstark?

  And ripping.

• 34:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Wait, doesn't Tom, Tom Sibley's hometown was also a person, remember it was the guy that made patio furniture? And like the weird tools and stuff?

• 34:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, that was like a way, in way back episodes.

• 35:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, the guy, the guy killed his mother. That was a crazy story, but it reminded me of the same thing.

• 35:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Be careful of upholsters. Sorry, the upholsterer, the murderino upholsterers right now are fucking.

• 35:10Karen Kilgariff?

  They're crying, they're fucking calling 911.

• 35:16Karen Kilgariff?

  This is not a, this, this is not a thing to call 911.

• 35:19Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 35:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Please. Just email Steven. He loves to hear from you. Okay, so that's Angelo Bono. He's the older cousin. He's definitely the cult leader in this two-man cult of fucking terror.

• 35:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Hate his guts.

• 35:34Karen Kilgariff?

  He's really disgusting.

• 35:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 35:36Karen Kilgariff?

  And when he has, like, when he, when, he looks like an old-fashioned, uh, you know, Brooklyn grocer in some of his pictures, but then he grows this fucking handlebar mustache. And he, it, it's satanic. He looks like the most evil person on the planet.

• 35:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Is he the tall, skinny one?

• 35:54Karen Kilgariff?

  No, he's skinny, but he's smaller.

• 35:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 35:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Bianchi, uh, Kemp's Bianchi, the younger cousin was the taller one.

• 36:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 36:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, and he was born May 22nd, 1951. He's 17 years younger.

• 36:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 36:07Karen Kilgariff?

  He's definitely like a sad sack follower.

• 36:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 36:10Karen Kilgariff?

  So, he was abandoned by his mother, who was a sex worker and an alcoholic. He gets adopted by the Bianchi family. He's troubled all his childhood, bed wetter until he was a teenager.

• 36:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Dude.

• 36:23Karen Kilgariff?

  So, uh, uh, violent tempers, compulsive liar, and of course, because he fell off a jungle gym when he was six.

• 36:32Georgia Hardstark?

  It is head.

• 36:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Leaving him with this, uh, uh, head injury, frontal lobe damage. And they think that had, that basically affected his personality.

• 36:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 36:44Karen Kilgariff?

  So, that's quite the combination, is you have the sadist older cousin.

• 36:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 36:48Karen Kilgariff?

  And then the kind of like, maybe could have been fine.

• 36:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 36:52Karen Kilgariff?

  But then, uh,

• 36:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Bad influence.

• 36:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, definitely was not.

• 36:56Georgia Hardstark?

  And, and it's like influence, but also just the perfect opportunity.

• 37:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Yeah, exactly. There's nothing like that thing where like, someone gets an idea and you know you shouldn't do it, but if they're into it, you're like, well, then fine. I mean, it's that weird, like, look, I've got this older cousin that just

• 37:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 37:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Loves to be the devil. Um, okay, so he was, he wasn't that smart, easy to influence. And, uh, he had, he'd already, um, had a failed marriage. He tried to go to college. He wanted to study psychology. He drops out after a semester. No shame in that, buddy.

• 37:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Hey, been there.

• 37:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, been there, done it. Um, he also was obsessed with being a cop.

• 37:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Ooh.

• 37:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Um, but he was rejected because of psych tests.

• 37:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 37:46Karen Kilgariff?

  He failed psych tests. Um, and he had a girlfriend named Kelly Boyd. So, he basically in 1976, he, in beginning of 1976, he moves from Rochester, New York to LA to, um, to go live with his older cousin Angelo. They don't have a lot of money, so they get the idea that they're gonna become pimps. And the way they're going to do that is they're going to go out and they're gonna kidnap a couple of runaways and basically make them be sex workers for them. So they do that. They actually find, um, two teenage girls. Uh, one's named Sabra Hannan and one's named Becky Spears.

• 38:26Karen Kilgariff?

  And they take him back to, um, Angelo's apartment and they're like, this is what you have to do now. They're being pimped by those two.

• 38:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 38:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Becky meets a lawyer and she tells him what's happening. She tells him the situation. And he helps her escape, get out of the city. And when she goes, then, um, uh, Sabra then has the guts to then run away herself.

• 38:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 38:50Karen Kilgariff?

  So they, they get away.

• 38:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 38:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, so, uh, they then impersonate police officers and kidnap another runaway. They put her in the girl's bedroom. They set it up, um, to have her be their next sex worker. And they buy a trick list from, um, a sex worker named Deborah Noble. So this is basically a bunch of dudes' names who frequent, um,

• 39:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 39:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Sex workers so that they can get a hold of people directly and basically start their own pimping empire.

• 39:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Fucked up time, man.

• 39:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, super gross. Now, well, now here's the thing. They, uh, so Deborah and her friend Yolanda Washington go deliver that trick list to Angelo's apartment in, uh, October of 1977. But when they go to use it, they find out it's fake.

• 39:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh-oh.

• 39:47Karen Kilgariff?

  So, they get furious, of course. They get into their car. They go try to find, um, Deborah Noble and they can't find her, but then they remember as they're driving around to find her that when they were talking to Yolanda, that Yolanda told them that sometimes she works, uh, because she was also a sex worker, she works on Sunset Boulevard. So they go down there to find her and they do find her.

• 40:09Karen Kilgariff?

  The next night, October 18th, 1977, the body of Yolanda Washington is found on a hillside in Forest Lawn Cemetery.

• 40:18Georgia Hardstark?

  What? That's like, right there?

• 40:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh-huh. It's, yeah, close by. Also, she's naked. She's posed in a grotesque, lewd position. She's got ligature marks, strangulation mark, ligature marks on her wrists, um, strangulation marks. She'd been strangled with, um, like, uh, rope around her neck. And they determined she was raped. She's a 20-year-old woman.

• 40:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 40:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, but when they call, when the police arrive, um, one of the detectives on the case is Detective Frank Salerno.

• 40:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh shit, Frank.

• 40:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Frank, we've talked about Frank Salerno a lot. He went on after this case. So he worked this case.

• 41:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And, uh, and then when it was over, uh, and what, six years later, whenever, when the, um, Night Stalker case started, he also, he took what he learned and from the mistakes that they made on the Hillside Strangler case, and it helped him catch the Night Stalker.

• 41:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 41:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, he also was assigned to the Natalie Wood drowning.

• 41:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh shit.

• 41:24Karen Kilgariff?

  And there's a lot of controversy about, obviously, we all know about that, about how the, that report came through and how it was like, it was found to be a drowning and nothing suspicious and all that. It's really interesting. He's like, it's, the, the timing of him being a detective on LAPD is so crazy.

• 41:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 41:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Is he like, in the center of everything. So, so two weeks later, November 1st, 1977, around 6:00 in the morning, a homeowner in La Crescenta, this is the one I was talking about. And La, La Crescenta is 12 miles north of, uh, Los Angeles.

• 41:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't you live there?

• 42:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh shit, sorry. Seems like, um, no.

• 42:05Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 42:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Steven, do you want to say where you live? I live south of Pasadena. Oh.

• 42:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 42:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, have you ever thought of moving to La Crescenta?

• 42:13Georgia Hardstark?

  You should move to La Crescenta. I mean,

• 42:15Karen Kilgariff?

  I want to hear about it, though. It's great.

• 42:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Tell us about it.

• 42:18Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a little, uh, kind of upper middle-class neighborhood. It's nestled right into those foothills. The, um, are they foothills or are they regular hills? I don't know.

• 42:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so, two weeks later, on November 1st, 1977, around 6:00 in the morning, a homeowner in Lockersenna, walks outside of his house and sees the dead body of a 15-year-old girl laying on the hillside across the street from his home. So he goes and covers her body with a tarp because all these kids are about to leave their house to go to school. Um, and soon they identify, um, the victim as 15-year-old Judy Miller. She was a runaway, sometimes sex worker in Hollywood. Uh, and she also has ligature marks on her wrists, her neck, and her ankles. And so now they know there, she's bound and, um, she was murdered somewhere else and bound somewhere else.

• 43:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, and then dumped in this, a second location. And this is Detective Slerno, when he is looking at Judy's body, he notices a, a, a piece of light-colored fluff on her eyelid. And he pulls it and saves it for evidence later. And this was like, I think before, like, really intense forensic testing, but he was like, this must be a clue. And that kind of detective work that he did on this is the reason they eventually were able to make the case.

• 43:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 43:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Once they found them.

• 43:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 43:46Karen Kilgariff?

  She was, Judy was last seen alive October 31st, 1977. She was talking to a man in a large two-tone sedan on Sunset Boulevard. Eventually, what everyone finds out is that's the car that Angelo and Ken Bianchi used to drive around in. Oftentimes, um, telling people they were undercover cops or detectives. And, um, and they would basically go drive up and down the strip and arrest girls, saying they're bringing them in for solicitation.

• 44:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 44:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Handcuff them, get, get them into the back of the car, and then kidnap them and take them to Angelo's house.

• 44:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Ew.

• 44:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. So they, of course, he's, they're getting these people that they, they're going willingly because they think they're in trouble.

• 44:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 44:33Karen Kilgariff?

  So, uh, they tell Judy that she's being arrested for solicitation. They take her back to the upholstery shop. She's raped, tortured, sodomized, and strangled. Five days later, on November 6th, 1977, another naked body with the same ligature marks is found on Chevy Chase Drive near a country club in Glendale.

• 44:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 44:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm. I think I know that, I think I know that country club. It's on that weird turn.

• 44:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Chevy Chase in what? Oh, yeah.

• 45:03Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like in Glendale.

• 45:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 45:05Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I don't know exactly where. So, the night before, Elisa Caston is, she's a 21-year-old waitress at Health Fair Restaurant on Hollywood and Vine. She leaves work at 9:00. She's driving home. She gets pulled over by two plainclothes police officers.

• 45:21Georgia Hardstark?

  No such thing, guys.

• 45:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? They handcuff her, tell her that she needs to be taken in for questioning. And then, uh, the next morning, her naked body is found. There's evidence of rape. But she's found on the other side of a tall guardrail, and that's when police first observed. They're like, there's no way one guy, because she, based on like the size of her body, they're like, one person couldn't have just, like, lifted this over easily. And that's when they were like, pretty sure that it was a two-man, um, killing team.

• 45:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 45:56Karen Kilgariff?

  So the next thing that happened, which is fascinating, um, 24-year-old, 4-year-old Catherine Lori Baker, who is the daughter of character actor Peter Laurie.

• 46:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 46:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, with the big eyes, who's in the movie M. If you've never seen the movie M, it's really amazing, and he plays a serial killer in it. It's, it's a great fucking old movie. And he's a really famous character actor. Like, there's a bunch of old, like, those old Bugs Bunny cartoons that would have, remember when they would do episodes where there would be caricatures of, like, old famous people? So it was like Clark Gable and Lauren Bacall. Peter Laurie's in those cartoons. He's the guy with the really big eyes that kind of is like, oh, he always, anyway.

• 46:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Love him.

• 46:38Karen Kilgariff?

  So, they fucking try to pull the "we're fake cops, show us your ID, you're arrested" scam on Catherine Lori Baker. But when she pulls out her ID, like, she's looking for her wallet, they see a picture of her sitting on Peter Laurie's lap. They see that she, her name is Catherine Lori Baker. She says, "Yeah, that's my dad," and they let her go.

• 46:59Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 47:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Because they're big fans of Peter Laurie.

• 47:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Shut the fuck up.

• 47:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep. And later on, she was, um, interviewed, and she told the interviewer that when she was talking to them, she was not, they were, there was nothing about them that was scary.

• 47:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 47:13Karen Kilgariff?

  She said it was a casual conversation, that she got no bad vibes off of them whatsoever.

• 47:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 47:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Which creeped me out really bad when I read that. The next, on November 10th, they find another body in Franklin Canyon, um, north of Beverly Hills. It's, uh, um, she's identified as Jill Barkum. She's a 19-year-old. She'd just moved to LA from New York City. She had been a sex worker in New York City, um, but she'd moved to Hollywood. And her body showed the same ligature and strangulation marks, and she'd also been raped. And this is when police are, now are sure that they have a serial killer.

• 47:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 47:51Karen Kilgariff?

  So that was November 10th. Eight days later, on November 18th, the body of a high school student is found on Pico Boulevard. It's eventually identified as 17-year-old Kathleen Robinson, um, who went to high school. She lived with her mom in Hollywood. And she had last been seen the day before at the beach. Then, this one's so fucked. I mean, they're all terrible, but, on November 20th, 1977, a nine-year-old boy finds the bodies of two girls in a trash heap on a hillside near Dodger Stadium.

• 48:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 48:26Karen Kilgariff?

  So horrible. Um, 12-year-old Dolly Cepeda and 14-year-old Sonia Johnson.

• 48:33Karen Kilgariff?

  A week before, they had last seen, been seen a week before getting off the bus on York Boulevard at Avenue 46, which I think is right in Eagle Rock. Yeah. And, um, they, they had walked up to a two-tone sedan that had two men sitting inside of it. And the bodies, when they were found, had been a week later, so they had decomposed, but they could, the police could still tell that they had been strangled and raped. On the same day that those bodies were found, hikers, um, on a hillside, uh, between Glendale and Eagle Rock, find a naked body of a dead woman, um, who's identified as 20-year-old Christina Wechler.

• 49:16Karen Kilgariff?

  She's a quiet, honor student at the Art Center College of Design. Um, she also has ligature marks on her wrists, neck, and ankles. But unlike the other victim, the police noticed she has two puncture marks in her arm, that they later find out,

• 49:34Karen Kilgariff?

  she had been injected with Windex while she was being tortured by them at some point.

• 49:40Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 49:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, and they would also come to learn that Christina was Kenneth Bianchi's neighbor.

• 49:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no.

• 49:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so then, three days after Christina's body is found, a body is discovered in near the Los Feliz off-ramp, of the 101. So there's pictures of, uh,

• 50:02Georgia Hardstark?

  The Five.

• 50:03Karen Kilgariff?

  The Five. Sorry, The Five.

• 50:06Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 50:09Karen Kilgariff?

  That's the,

• 50:10Georgia Hardstark?

  I've seen that picture.

• 50:11Karen Kilgariff?

  It's, and it's like, right, it's right there. I mean, if you were driving by, you would have seen it driving by.

• 50:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 50:18Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so crazy and awful. Um, and, I mean,

• 50:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 50:24Karen Kilgariff?

  It's, I drive on that freeway. I never am not on that freeway.

• 50:28Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 50:28Karen Kilgariff?

  I spend all my time on that freeway.

• 50:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 50:31Karen Kilgariff?

  So, the severity of the decomposition of that body prevented authorities from being able to tell if she had been raped or tortured.

• 50:39Georgia Hardstark?

  So, okay, so they put her out and she was in decomp already? Because someone would have seen it earlier.

• 50:45Karen Kilgariff?

  No, they, she had been missing.

• 50:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh-huh.

• 50:48Karen Kilgariff?

  So, but they found the body there. So there, with the picture, from what I remember, the picture I saw, there's like a bunch of ivy and shrubs.

• 50:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 50:55Karen Kilgariff?

  So I think she was underneath that, but just enough.

• 50:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 50:59Karen Kilgariff?

  So that just people didn't see it.

• 51:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 51:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Sadly, you can look up all these crime scene photos. Um, they're very upsetting.

• 51:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 51:08Karen Kilgariff?

  And there's a ton of them because it was, they're like, the police crime scene photos are on the internet.

• 51:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 51:13Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's also strange because they all look the same.

• 51:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 51:17Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like a bunch of men in suits standing around and a little body, a little naked body kind of in the distance. It's just insane.

• 51:26Karen Kilgariff?

  So, it turned out that this was the body of 28-year-old Evelyn Jane King. She'd been missing since November 9th. So she had been gone for like two we, over two weeks. So this is when they start the task force for the Hillside Strangler, singular.

• 51:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 51:42Karen Kilgariff?

  So it's 30 LAPD officers, the Sheriff's Department, and the Glendale Police Department all coming together, um, to catch this killer. But still, the police don't reveal that they know it's two men.

• 51:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 51:55Karen Kilgariff?

  They let everybody call it the Hillside Strangler.

• 51:58Georgia Hardstark?

  But shouldn't they tell people that so that, you know, women can be a little more, uh, you know, aware?

• 52:03Karen Kilgariff?

  I bet today, maybe they would have, and they, but I bet you they were trying to do, they were trying to, like, be prepared for when

• 52:12Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 52:12Karen Kilgariff?

  they're caught, and nobody could get, they couldn't get out of it.

• 52:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Pick something else.

• 52:17Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, yeah, maybe because, well, it's just the thing, the, the thing to me that's so disturbing is that thing of impersonating a policeman, having two of them, which is what, that's actually much more believable.

• 52:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 52:29Karen Kilgariff?

  For people impersonating policemen.

• 52:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 52:31Karen Kilgariff?

  It's, it's,

• 52:32Georgia Hardstark?

  It's, it kind of puts, it shouldn't, but it puts you a little more at ease that there's two people there.

• 52:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 52:37Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, even if they're, like, for, for whatever reason, not even just for fake cops, just,

• 52:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 52:42Georgia Hardstark?

  But the fake cop thing pisses me off so much. It's so unfair. That and the, when, when someone accidentally, like, rear-ends you, quote-unquote, accidentally, and then, uh, you have to get out of your car, and,

• 52:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 52:53Georgia Hardstark?

  That, like, those are, that's such fucking dirty tricks. I hate it so much.

• 52:56Karen Kilgariff?

  It's really awful. And also, it's just such a strange thing to think, back then, there were only payphones. So like, if you had a fucking emergency, if somebody rear-ended you, it was raining, it's the middle of the night, you're in your car, and then some dude walks up and like, knock, knock, knock, get out of the car, you couldn't even go, "Hold on a second, let me just get, make sure the cops come here first." There was nothing you could do.

• 53:17Georgia Hardstark?

  That scene in Zodiac, when he, when he puts her fucking tire back on or whatever, and then she starts driving and the tire comes off.

• 53:25Karen Kilgariff?

  I, I've watched Zodiac probably 10 times. I skipped that scene because it's so upsetting.

• 53:31Georgia Hardstark?

  It's the best scene in the movie.

• 53:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Whoever it is does such a great, realistic job of like, "What'd you fucking do? You had a baby with her."

• 53:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 53:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so, Less than a week later. So also you have to think about this too. These things are just keep happening.

• 53:46Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. It's so quick.

• 53:47Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so quick. It's so intense. These guys are like, you know, they're berserking.

• 53:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 53:53Karen Kilgariff?

  It's that I think they call it, they say it that on last podcast on left. It's like they're gone into berserker mode.

• 53:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 54:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And I have listened to this one on last podcast on left. I just, it's been a really long time since I've heard it. So I'm not copying you guys. Marcus. Less than a week later, November 29th, 1977, another body of an 18 year old girl is found. Her name's Lauren Wagner. She was a business student. She lived with her parents in the hills in Mount Washington. She had ligature marks on her neck, ankles and wrists. She also had burn marks on her hand. The police knew immediately she'd been tortured. And then morning after her body was found, her parents found her car parked across the street from their house with the door ajar. So they go knocking on the neighbors doors to find out if anybody saw anything.

• 54:44Karen Kilgariff?

  And the woman who lived in the house, where the car was parked, told them that she had seen Lauren's abduction. So she says that she saw two men, one was tall and young, the other was older and short with bushy hair. And she had heard Lauren cry out, you won't get away with this.

• 55:03Georgia Hardstark?

  And she didn't call the police?

• 55:06Karen Kilgariff?

  I guess not.

• 55:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 55:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Heartbreaking.

• 55:10Karen Kilgariff?

  That's the other thing too, where then easy to say in retrospect.

• 55:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I know.

• 55:14Karen Kilgariff?

  But you'd always want to be like, even if you're not sure, call the police.

• 55:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. But what could you not be sure about?

• 55:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, because it could be teenagers, like this is the seventies. There's like, it could be teenagers smoking pot and fighting and joking. It could be a girl fighting with her boyfriend. Like, it's just such a, people were, I think, much more disconnected and like unsure. Nobody was thinking, although it is pretty far into this fucking series. That you don't just go, hey, since this citywide fucking panic is happening, okay. But sorry, I'm sure that lady is racked with, that's, that's a life wrecker by itself.

• 55:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 55:56Georgia Hardstark?

  So I don't mean to witness shame her.

• 55:58Karen Kilgariff?

  No, please, God. So then December 14th, 1977. So, like two weeks later, basically, the body of 17 year old Kimberly Martin is found in a deserted parking lot near, uh, city hall downtown. The body's naked, shows signs of torture. The police discover Kimberly was a sex worker who had recently signed up with an escort agency. So she wouldn't be getting Johns off the street because of the hillside strangler.

• 56:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, honey.

• 56:28Karen Kilgariff?

  And they called her agency and she was the woman dispatched, just like.

• 56:35Georgia Hardstark?

  They called the agency?

• 56:36Karen Kilgariff?

  The, the cousins called the agency and.

• 56:40Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 56:41Karen Kilgariff?

  And, and got her and then tortured her and killed her.

• 56:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh man, what a, like, oh, I can only like picture her being like, fuck, man.

• 56:50Karen Kilgariff?

  That she's, she is being careful. She's like, actually is aware and taking measures to do something about it. They, when they go to the apartment that she had been dispatched to, the address, it's, um, empty, it had been broken into. The final victim was found in Los Angeles on February 17th, 1978. So it basically, basically a two month.

• 57:14Georgia Hardstark?

  That's it?

• 57:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Rest period. Yeah.

• 57:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 57:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Two month. Um, that's the longest it's been so far. A helicopter pilot spots an abandoned orange Dotson on the Angeles Crest Highway. And when they go, police go and investigate, the body of 23 year old Cindy Hudspeth, uh, a part-time waitress and student is found in the trunk. She has the ligature marks. She's been raped and tortured. And then her body was stuffed in the trunk of the car. And then the car was pushed off the cliff. And she was also a neighbor of Christina Weckler, the, an earlier victim and therefore a, a neighbor of Kenneth Bianchi. But nobody actually looked into that any further. And pretty soon after, the hillside strangler task force was disbanded.

• 58:01Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 58:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Because they, they thought it was slowing down or stopping. And I'm sure financially, that's, that's always the thing they say. Around the same time, February 1978, Kelly Boyd, who is the girlfriend of Kenneth Bianchi, the two of them have a son and by, uh, Mar- they have a son in February and by March, she's like, I'm leaving you. I'm going to move back in with my parents up in Washington state. I don't like, like you're going out all the time and you're never here. You don't help me. And so I'm leaving you. And he tries to get back together with her and she basically says, after three months, she's like, fine, but you have to move up here with me. Kenneth Bianchi moves to Bellingham, Washington,

• 58:46Karen Kilgariff?

  and basically thinks he's gonna like put all that behind him and start a new life. He gets a job as a security guard.

• 58:55Karen Kilgariff?

  He earns the trust of his employers. Um, he's trying to be a family man. And he, it's still, he, it doesn't work. So he has the murderous urges still. He basically, um, lures on January 11th, 1979. So he's, you know, been up there for like less than a year. He lures two women, 22 year old Karen Mandek and 27 year old Diane Wilder to an empty house, under the guise of giving them jobs as house sitters. And he rapes and murders both of them.

• 59:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God.

• 59:28Karen Kilgariff?

  And then he fucking goes home that night. His girlfriend Kelly later says, it was like, it was just a regular night. He came home. He asked me about the baby. We watched television and we called it a night.

• 59:39Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 59:40Karen Kilgariff?

  But he was so clearly, Angela was the brains of the, a team. Because Kenneth Bianchi was arrested for these two murders the next day.

• 59:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God.

• 59:51Karen Kilgariff?

  It was like they tracked it directly back to him immediately. So when he's arrested, and this is kind of the famous thing about Kenneth Bianchi, and you can see all of these interview tapes online and it is so fucking ridiculously stupid. He tries to plead insanity and he tries to claim that he has dissociative identity disorder and a multiple personalities, basically.

• 1:00:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 1:00:15Karen Kilgariff?

  And so, and that it wasn't him that committed those murders. It was his other personality.

• 1:00:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:00:21Karen Kilgariff?

  So basically he gets interviewed by a psychologist and then displays these personalities. The first personality is Ken. He's the nice guy. And then eventually Steve comes out and Steve. Steven is the murderer. He puts on a big fake mustache. No, he already, he actually already had a very Steven like mustache.

• 1:00:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh shit.

• 1:00:44Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm just saying, something to consider, Steven. So, a, a bunch of psychologists watched these tapes. A famous one named, uh, Dr. Martin Orne. They watch these tapes and they're just like, he's a hundred percent faking. Like there's, there's no question. So he agrees, uh, he admits he's faking. He agrees to plead guilty and testify against Angelo in exchange for a more lenient sentence. They do not give him a more lenient sentence. So like, you're gonna do all that and then you'll get what you get.

• 1:01:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Then you can go fuck yourself.

• 1:01:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. This is, his confession is, they bring him back to LA and thus begins a trial that lasts five years.

• 1:01:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 1:01:25Karen Kilgariff?

  One of the longest in history.

• 1:01:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow. Hate to be on that jury, right?

• 1:01:29Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, so 450 witnesses, two years worth of testimony alone.

• 1:01:35Georgia Hardstark?

  God.

• 1:01:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Angelo Bueno's trial ended in 1983. The presiding judge, Ronald M. George, said this to him. "I would not have the slightest reluctance to impose the death penalty in this case, were it within my power to do so. Ironically, although these two defendants utilized almost every form of legalized execution against their victims, the defendants have escaped any form of capital punishment." But the jury brought back, um, multiple life sentences because they didn't want them to escape by just being killed. They wanted them to go to jail and suffer.

• 1:02:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:02:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Kenneth Bianchi was given two life sentences and he's still serving them out. I was gonna say one of them out, both of them out, um, in the Washington state penitentiary. Angelo Bueno died of a heart attack in 2002, where he was, I believe they gave him nine back-to-back life sentences. And this is just an interesting tidbit. While Kenneth Bianchi was in jail in 1980, he started a relationship with a woman named Veronica Compton. She was later convicted and imprisoned for attempting to strangle a woman she had lured to a hotel. In an effort to convince authorities that the hillside strangler was still on the loose,

• 1:02:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Bianchi had given her semen that, that she smuggled out of jail to plant at the scene.

• 1:03:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Who's semen?

• 1:03:02Karen Kilgariff?

  To make it look like, uh, uh, somebody else's, right? To make it look like it was the work of the hillside strangler.

• 1:03:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God.

• 1:03:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. And so she tried to kill somebody to prove for her jailbird boyfriend.

• 1:03:16Georgia Hardstark?

  What a psychopath.

• 1:03:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:18Georgia Hardstark?

  And so what happened?

• 1:03:21Karen Kilgariff?

  They got caught. She was convicted of, of doing that.

• 1:03:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Did she kill someone or did they?

• 1:03:25Karen Kilgariff?

  She was in prison. No, no, attempted.

• 1:03:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Attempted, okay.

• 1:03:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. No, she got caught.

• 1:03:28Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 1:03:30Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, there's, that, I already, it's, that went on so long, but like I have barely scratched the surface of the crazy fucking shit. You definitely, if you want to hear the good stuff, I a hundred percent recommend that you listen to that last podcast on the left series of the hillside stranglers.

• 1:03:46Georgia Hardstark?

  You guys, please make good choices. Just make the basics of good choices in life.

• 1:03:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, like don't pull over for the police?

• 1:03:54Georgia Hardstark?

  No, like don't, let, don't date a dude who's a murderer in prison and then don't take a cup of semen from him and try to murder someone and plant it. Don't do that.

• 1:04:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't, if somebody can't make good plans, that's not even at like a good three-step plan. Of like, we're gonna do this. It's gonna have this definite effect.

• 1:04:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Like every, there's so many variables in that plan alone.

• 1:04:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:20Karen Kilgariff?

  And also, why would you, unless you're, you're just a killer in waiting?

• 1:04:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Why would you agree to kill somebody just to try to get your boyfriend out of jail?

• 1:04:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 1:04:31Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I guess you love him so much.

• 1:04:33Georgia Hardstark?

  No, no, no, no. He's not even your high school sweetheart.

• 1:04:38Karen Kilgariff?

  He's not your real sweetheart if he's asking you to murder.

• 1:04:40Georgia Hardstark?

  He's not your sweetheart.

• 1:04:41Karen Kilgariff?

  He's disqualified from the sweetheart spot.

• 1:04:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't fall for it.

• 1:04:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Call 911.

• 1:04:48Karen Kilgariff?

  One of the sloppier presentations I've ever given.

• 1:04:51Georgia Hardstark?

  No, it was great. What are you talking about?

• 1:04:53Karen Kilgariff?

  I just, because there's so much.

• 1:04:55Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 1:04:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Detail in it.

• 1:04:57Georgia Hardstark?

  You can do part two.

• 1:04:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Nah, nah, I've done what I can.

• 1:05:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. That was great.

• 1:05:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you.

• 1:05:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you for informing me.

• 1:05:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, it's my pleasure. It's what I like to do.

• 1:05:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, we're back. Karen, any updates?

• 1:05:15Karen Kilgariff?

  There are some. In 2023, during his detention, Kenneth Bianchi changed his name to Anthony DiMato. His most recent parole hearing was in July of 2025. He was denied. He's eligible again for parole in 10 years. He claims his confession was made under hypnosis and has challenged his conviction multiple times. Remember the hypnosis tapes?

• 1:05:38Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I need to go back and watch all this stuff.

• 1:05:40Karen Kilgariff?

  He was pretending to be crazy and it's such bad acting.

• 1:05:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, that's right.

• 1:05:44Karen Kilgariff?

  It like breaks you out into a sweat because he thinks he's doing amazing and it's so corny.

• 1:05:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Anyway, in January of 2026, MGM released the docu-series The Hillside Strangler about the case, and it featured new on-camera interviews with Kenneth Bianchi where he maintained his innocence.

• 1:06:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Do you think there's any way, like, I get so silly and naive when it comes to these things where it's like, what if? But there's just no way.

• 1:06:12Karen Kilgariff?

  No, because remember then he went up to Seattle, to the suburbs of Seattle, and was a serial rapist. Final point, his release date is set for 2025, when he's 114 years old, literally. So that's the end of The Hillside Stranglers.

• 1:06:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Good.

• 1:06:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Now let's get into Georgia's story about the murder of Dana Bradley.

• 1:06:37Georgia Hardstark?

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:06:40Speaker 02

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder warrants.

• 1:06:45Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  There's a homicide detective down here.

• 1:06:49Speaker 03

  Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:06:53Speaker 03

  Hell, since swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 1:06:56Speaker 02

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 1:06:57Speaker 03

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:07:00Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe, 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:07:07Karen Kilgariff?

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• 1:07:32Speaker 04

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• 1:08:04Georgia Hardstark?

  This is a sadly typical story that has some crazy twists in it.

• 1:08:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:08:09Georgia Hardstark?

  That I had never heard about until I read one of our hometown murders.

• 1:08:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:08:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And then I was like, well, that's fucking weird. So this is the story of the murder of Dana Bradley.

• 1:08:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:08:21Georgia Hardstark?

  So St. John's is the capital and largest city in Newfoundland, Canada. And it has the lowest homicide rate in Canada.

• 1:08:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 1:08:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:31Karen Kilgariff?

  I was gonna, first of all, I was laughing because I was like, what if you just pronounced that wrong?

• 1:08:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Newfoundland? I thought Newfoundland. What if I did too?

• 1:08:39Karen Kilgariff?

  It's Newfoundland.

• 1:08:41Georgia Hardstark?

  I think shit.

• 1:08:41Karen Kilgariff?

  I think it is. No, no, no, no. I was laughing because I don't, it's hard to mispronounce that. But my friend, uh, so I have two friends.

• 1:08:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry. Um, my friend Paul Greenberg and his wife Jackie are from Canada. And Jackie used to make these jokes. She used to, she's hilarious. And, um, she used to do impressions of, they call them Newfies. And it's people from Newfoundland. And she'd always go, oh, no, I burned my face in a chip fire. And apparently, that's a real thing that happens, and not just in Newfoundland, but I think around Canada.

• 1:09:18Georgia Hardstark?

  A chip fire?

• 1:09:19Karen Kilgariff?

  You make chips, you make french fries at how, at your house after you've been drinking all night in the bar. So really drunk people go home, deep fry french fries, pass out, and light their house on fire.

• 1:09:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:09:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Very common thing, apparently, to Newfoundland specifically, but let's not pin that on them entirely. But that's how I'm familiar with Newfoundland.

• 1:09:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Let us know, Newfoundland. I have no point of reference, and that is now my point of reference, and I love it.

• 1:09:46Karen Kilgariff?

  It's all I have, so now it's all you have.

• 1:09:48Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm going with it.

• 1:09:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Sweet.

• 1:09:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:09:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Until we hear from everybody from Newfoundland.

• 1:09:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly.

• 1:09:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Let us know.

• 1:09:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Let us know, and you will. Okay. So here we are in St. John's. It's, um, December 14th, 1981. Uh, 14-year-old Dana Bradley, she's like a typical grade nine, grade nine.

• 1:10:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Grade nine.

• 1:10:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Student. She's pretty good friend, friendly, full of life. She loves art. She's just a normal girl. Um, she leaves her home, her friend's home. She'd been hanging out there after school. And she was headed home for her mom's birthday party. Uh, I know. And she goes towards the bus stop, which is a few minutes away from her friend's house. It's on Top Sail Road. It's one of the busier roads in town, and, uh, she was gonna take the bus home. But it's possible she either missed the bus or just didn't feel like waiting for it because, so two brothers, who were taking a break from selling Christmas trees on the road.

• 1:10:48Georgia Hardstark?

  They're hanging out in their car at Tim Hortons.

• 1:10:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:10:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Good old Tim Hortons.

• 1:10:52Karen Kilgariff?

  We've been there.

• 1:10:52Georgia Hardstark?

  We've been there in Canada.

• 1:10:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:10:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, I don't know if it's anywhere else, but.

• 1:10:57Karen Kilgariff?

  I think it's lots of places.

• 1:10:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, great. Around, so it's around 5:20 PM. They see a young girl hitchhiking while they're sitting in their truck. It's about 25 or 30 feet away from the road. They didn't know her, but they, they remember her because they remarked on how young she was to be hitchhiking. But even though hitchhiking was kind of a normal thing, especially a small town like this back then.

• 1:11:19Georgia Hardstark?

  According to the brothers, they saw a car pull up. It was a 73 to 76 four-door Dodge Dart or Plymouth Valiant. It was beige, tan, or faded yellow with noticeable rust marks, and a male driver offered Dana a ride. She got in and they drove off, and the brothers were the last people to see Dana alive. So because Dana had phoned home before leaving her friend's house to say she was on her way home, her parents and family were immediately like, something is going on. They file a police report, but of course, nothing can be done that night because that's how it always goes. But, uh, it's hours and days go by, and Dana is not seen or heard from, and her parents know something is wrong.

• 1:12:04Georgia Hardstark?

  She's not the type of girl who would run away. Four days later, on December 18th, 1981, in a remote wooded area off a dirt road just outside St. John's, um, this couple and their kids are out looking for a Christmas tree to chop down.

• 1:12:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no.

• 1:12:20Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. And, uh, the dad spots Dana's body about six miles away, six miles away from the road where she had been hitchhiking.

• 1:12:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:12:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Dad sees the body, thinks it's a mannequin, of course.

• 1:12:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:34Georgia Hardstark?

  It's not. So Dana's autopsy shows that she died from numerous blows to the head with a blunt object and was sexually assaulted. But a weird thing is that Dana had been found fully dressed in her school clothes, even though she had been sexually assaulted, and had been laid out carefully, uh, burial style. So like placed very neatly with her arms over her chest. And also her school books had been tucked neatly under her arm.

• 1:13:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no, like, that's like staging.

• 1:13:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, like, almost lovingly placed her there, it seems, right?

• 1:13:10Georgia Hardstark?

  So because of the way she was laid out, police thought maybe that, uh, the killer was remorseful, that that was, you know, him trying to kind of make it better.

• 1:13:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:19Georgia Hardstark?

  So they made an appeal to him through the media. The murder didn't come forward, but the brothers who had seen her get in the car did. And they also told detectives about how the driver had to reach over to the passenger side door to open the door from the inside, like, almost like something was wrong with the outer door handle. So that was another point of that, that car that they had. And they were also able to give police a good description, and they got, um, a police sketch. Two other witnesses came forward saying that they saw the car and a man emerged from the woods. So they saw the car by the side of the road, and a man emerged from the woods the night Dana disappeared, between midnight and 1:00 AM, where she was later found. And they said the passenger side door of the car was open, and that the dome light was illuminated in the car.

• 1:14:02Georgia Hardstark?

  And they reported that the man had no jacket despite being in the middle of December and freezing. So the search for Dana's killer became the biggest murder investigation in Newfoundland history, as well as one of the biggest in Canadian history at the time. In the first week, 800 cars were examined that matched the description of the car that had picked up Dana. And there were 250 prime suspects at one point. But nothing seemed to pan out. So finally, though, five years later, in 1986, dissect, detectives, dissectives?

• 1:14:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Deceptives.

• 1:14:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Detectives received an anonymous note saying the murderer was an ex-con with a violent past named David Somerton, and he really strongly resembled the sketch. So they bring him in, and he confesses to Dana's murder.

• 1:14:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Shit.

• 1:14:52Georgia Hardstark?

  He told them where his car that he used to abduct her was and where the murder weapon was. And he also described how he killed her, and it was consistent with the facts. So police, um, searched for the murder weapon. It was near where Dana's body had been found. He said he had buried it. And police had thoroughly searched the area before, but they went back, and this time they removed trees, and they like dug up earth and stuff trying to find it. The, but they never found, uh, anything. They also went to the local dump where he said he had left the car, but it wasn't there either. And all nearly $1 million were spent digging up and searching those two sites, but nothing surfaced.

• 1:15:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 1:15:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Then this dude, uh, Somerton recants and says he only confessed after having been interrogated for 18 hours.

• 1:15:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, shit.

• 1:15:44Georgia Hardstark?

  And then at the time of his confession, he was on heavy medication. And so then he denied any involvement with Dana's murder, and the police didn't have the evidence to hold him any longer. But he was charged with public mischief and sentenced to two years in jail for misleading the RCMP.

• 1:16:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, shit.

• 1:16:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Good old mountain, mounted police.

• 1:16:05Georgia Hardstark?

  So before you feel bad for him about that, though, years later, he was convicted of sexually assaulting a minor in two separate incidents. So this guy's a creep, too.

• 1:16:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Just coincidentally, not the killer, but still a really bad guy.

• 1:16:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Maybe, yeah.

• 1:16:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck.

• 1:16:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So another man was sentenced to nine months in prison in 1982 for making cruel harassing phone calls to the family, to Dana's family. But otherwise, the case kind of, this didn't go cold because they wouldn't let it go cold, but there was no other real clues, but they kept getting tips and stuff.

• 1:16:40Karen Kilgariff?

  The person who makes harassing phone calls to a murder victim's family.

• 1:16:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh. Who didn't do it?

• 1:16:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Is as bad as the killer.

• 1:16:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 1:16:49Karen Kilgariff?

  There's, you are psychotic?

• 1:16:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Disgusting?

• 1:16:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 1:16:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Who, what the fuck?

• 1:16:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:57Karen Kilgariff?

  But people make good decisions. Put, pick up that phone and actually call 911. On yourself.

• 1:17:06Georgia Hardstark?

  That's the best decision you can make on that point. I am a piece of shit.

• 1:17:11Karen Kilgariff?

  What kind of terrible shit has had to happen to you for you to be the harasser of murder victims' family? It's just beyond.

• 1:17:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 1:17:21Karen Kilgariff?

  That, I, I know that's a surprising stance, but I'm fucking standing by it.

• 1:17:26Georgia Hardstark?

  But it's like, who's worse, the murderer who then makes the calls, or the, or just some dude who fucking didn't even do it and then makes the calls? I mean, they're both bad, obviously.

• 1:17:34Karen Kilgariff?

  They're all in the shithead fraternity.

• 1:17:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:17:36Karen Kilgariff?

  In my opinion.

• 1:17:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely.

• 1:17:37Karen Kilgariff?

  But it's just like, it's not a prank.

• 1:17:40Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:17:41Karen Kilgariff?

  I hate prank culture. I just fucking hate it.

• 1:17:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Pranks?

• 1:17:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Life is hard enough without someone pulling a fucking chair out from underneath you and videotaping it.

• 1:17:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, God. The biggest fear. No.

• 1:17:52Karen Kilgariff?

  That one?

• 1:17:53Georgia Hardstark?

  That one.

• 1:17:53Karen Kilgariff?

  The chair one?

• 1:17:54Georgia Hardstark?

  No, just being pranked.

• 1:17:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. And videotaped.

• 1:17:57Georgia Hardstark?

  And videotaped while pranked. That's not funny.

• 1:18:00Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just mean.

• 1:18:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Nothing's funny. Okay.

• 1:18:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Nothing's funny.

• 1:18:05Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, let's cut to 2014. It's been 33 years since Dana was murdered.

• 1:18:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, fuck.

• 1:18:11Georgia Hardstark?

  RCMP, they're contacted by a man who uses a pseudonym to protect his identity named Robert. He tells them that he witnessed Dana's murder and the events that followed.

• 1:18:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Whoa.

• 1:18:26Georgia Hardstark?

  At the time, 33 years before, he was six years old.

• 1:18:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh oh.

• 1:18:31Georgia Hardstark?

  He tells them that, two years before that moment, after a lifetime of alcoholism, he quit drinking. Once he quit drinking and his mind started to heal, he said, memories resurfaced.

• 1:18:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no.

• 1:18:46Georgia Hardstark?

  He first had memories of being sexually abused by this dude who was a close and trusted friend of his family.

• 1:18:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Hmm.

• 1:18:54Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, and then the memory of that man murdering Dana resurfaced.

• 1:18:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:19:00Georgia Hardstark?

  So Robert's story is that the man, so his name is the man, we don't.

• 1:19:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:05Georgia Hardstark?

  The man.

• 1:19:06Karen Kilgariff?

  He's anonymous.

• 1:19:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Was driving his father's car that day. His dad had a.

• 1:19:10Karen Kilgariff?

  As a six-year-old?

• 1:19:11Georgia Hardstark?

  No, the man, the molesting man.

• 1:19:13Karen Kilgariff?

  The bad man, sorry, sorry.

• 1:19:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's call him the bad man.

• 1:19:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Great.

• 1:19:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Robert says that the bad man was driving his father's car that day. It was a 1972 Dodge Dart.

• 1:19:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh huh.

• 1:19:22Georgia Hardstark?

  And that Robert was in the backseat of the car. They were leaving McDonald's on Topsail Road, which is where Dana got a ride from.

• 1:19:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 1:19:32Georgia Hardstark?

  When the man noticed Dana hitchhiking. Robert confirmed that his father's car had trouble with the passenger side door and that had to be opened from the inside. And from the backseat, Robert had told him how to open it.

• 1:19:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Holy shit.

• 1:19:45Georgia Hardstark?

  And Dana got in.

• 1:19:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. This is true corroborating story facts, right?

• 1:19:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Here we go.

• 1:19:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:19:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Sorry.

• 1:19:54Karen Kilgariff?

  This is gonna get solved, isn't it?

• 1:19:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Please. So, here we go. Before you call 911.

• 1:20:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:20:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Nothing seemed unusual as they made their way to her house. But when she pointed out which house was hers, then the bad man kept going. And that's when panic set in. And Robert said he, it set in in him, and he could tell it set in in Dana as well.

• 1:20:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Hmm.

• 1:20:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Dana tried to jump out of the car at one point, but the man, the bad man grabbed her and sped up and kept telling her he was going to turn around. He's like, I'm gonna turn around. Don't worry about it. But eventually, he pulls off the road. And Robert remembers that the bad man kept telling Dana that he just wanted a kiss.

• 1:20:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Ugh.

• 1:20:33Georgia Hardstark?

  And she was crying and fighting him. And then she either scratched or pinched him or did something to hurt him because Robert remembers him kind of jumping back. And at that moment, Dana bolts out of the car. And then Robert remembers, and how insanely quickly it was, that the bad man ran after her.

• 1:20:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:20:53Georgia Hardstark?

  So Robert says he got out of the car at this point, too. The six-year-old's like, what's going on? And by this time, the bad man had caught Dana and they fought to the ground, as the six-year-old's watching.

• 1:21:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:21:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Robert said he stood near the car and watched as the murder and sexual assault took place. He said as a six-year-old, he wasn't able to understand what was happening. He said the murder weapon was the tire iron from the car. And that then, when it was over, the man put Dana's body in the trunk and drove towards where they were going to leave Dana's body along, and along the way disposed of the tire iron. He, the bad man, do you have to keep calling him that?

• 1:21:35Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I can follow it now.

• 1:21:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. The, he, the man dumped Dana over an embankment. And then, and then he retrieved her body, realizing it was a bad place to leave her.

• 1:21:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Ugh.

• 1:21:47Georgia Hardstark?

  And brought it to where it was ultimately found. So, then, then Robert says, quote, "And he was trying to get me to leave because he said her mom and dad would be looking for her. And he told me that she was going to go to school the next morning, trying to get him to come away." And Robert was like crying and didn't want to leave her in the forest. He was scared.

• 1:22:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my God. This is horrible.

• 1:22:08Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. And then Robert says, so the, the man says that she, we have to leave her here. Her parents are gonna come so she can go to school the next day. And then Robert says, well, then she needs her books.

• 1:22:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no.

• 1:22:21Georgia Hardstark?

  So the man went, goes up to the car, gets her books, and puts them under her arm because the six-year-old is like, we need to give her her books back.

• 1:22:31Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the fucking saddest thing of all time.

• 1:22:34Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 1:22:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:22:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Later that night, Robert then says, the man woke him up and made him come back out with him to the side of the body to look for his jacket that he had left behind. And he says, he thinks the reason he made him come with him is in case he got pulled over or whatever, it'd be like, well, my kid's here with me.

• 1:22:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:54Georgia Hardstark?

  So they pull over to the side of the road. He stays in the car. And the man goes into the woods to look for his jacket. And Robert says a car drives by, and remember, a car had seen them on the side of the road?

• 1:23:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 1:23:07Georgia Hardstark?

  This couple, they, da, da, da, da, da. So they had said that the, the dome light was on the passenger side, door was open. And Robert says that he remembers a car coming by late at night and says he was scared. So he pushed the seat forward and got out of the car and left the door open. So that's, explain that. And then the.

• 1:23:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Just every detail he is matching and explaining perfectly.

• 1:23:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 1:23:34Karen Kilgariff?

  God, it's like, it's horrifying, but it's also insanely satisfying.

• 1:23:38Georgia Hardstark?

  But wait.

• 1:23:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, fuck.

• 1:23:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Sorry.

• 1:23:41Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 1:23:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Come on, is anything ever really satisfying in this podcast?

• 1:23:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Not at all.

• 1:23:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Never. And, and the people had reported that the man had no jacket when he came out of the woods when they saw him.

• 1:23:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 1:23:51Georgia Hardstark?

  And, and in one, in one of his statements, Robert said that he had taken his jacket off to like, carry, you know, to carry the body because he was sweating and stuff, probably. So that's why he left his jacket behind. Da, da, da, da, they drove off. He didn't get his jacket. Then they go back home. Robert says he holds a work light while the man washes the trunk of the car using the supplies. And then he goes to bed. And four days later, Dana's body is found.

• 1:24:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Ugh.

• 1:24:19Georgia Hardstark?

  So Robert, at this point, as an adult, tells police that he thinks his father's car, the one that was used in the abduction, is buried in, on a former property that belonged to his dad. And I was like, what the fuck? But apparently, people bury their fucking cars in their backyards?

• 1:24:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Is this a thing?

• 1:24:35Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a thing.

• 1:24:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:24:36Karen Kilgariff?

  When you live out in the country, you don't want, like, you're, you're not gonna, you're not gonna take it anywhere.

• 1:24:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Why?

• 1:24:42Karen Kilgariff?

  But, well, I mean, like, it's just like a thing where it's like, oh, just go put it out there. Either, because there's tons of room.

• 1:24:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:49Karen Kilgariff?

  So, like, maybe it costs money to tow.

• 1:24:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Or whatever. So the easier thing is just get out there with some manual labor and get rid of it. I've definitely heard of that before.

• 1:24:58Georgia Hardstark?

  So that's just, there's just cars everywhere.

• 1:25:01Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, it's, it's a little bit like, you know, if you live way out.

• 1:25:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, when you're kind of like, way out in the, in the boondocks.

• 1:25:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:10Karen Kilgariff?

  There's, it's, everything is a big pain in the ass and takes like.

• 1:25:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:13Karen Kilgariff?

  You'd have to drive it into the junkyard.

• 1:25:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:17Karen Kilgariff?

  For 45 minutes or whatever.

• 1:25:18Georgia Hardstark?

  This is what happens when you grow up in suburbia. You just don't know fucking country things.

• 1:25:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Ask me anything about country life.

• 1:25:25Georgia Hardstark?

  You're a horse person. I didn't even have an oppor, I didn't even meet a horse that wasn't miserable.

• 1:25:30Karen Kilgariff?

  I wish I was a horse person. I was like, I was like the person who didn't have the right boots. Like, there's horse people, that's like the accrest, that's like rich people.

• 1:25:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:39Karen Kilgariff?

  We were like the bareback.

• 1:25:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Seventies children that were like, we're probably gonna get that bucked off pretty soon. We're like the kids with arm casts and shit. No shoes.

• 1:25:49Georgia Hardstark?

  I love it. Okay. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. Car is buried. Okay. So after six, a 16-month investigation into Robert's story, the RCMP refused to try to retrieve the vehicle. And they also dismissed Robert's story completely, saying it didn't match the known facts of the case.

• 1:26:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I disagree.

• 1:26:10Georgia Hardstark?

  They said, quote, "The vast differences between the known hard facts of the case in this person's account cannot be overstated." So they think, hold on, let me read this to you. Okay, but I will tell you that they did tell Robert that they found enough evidence to corroborate his claims of sexual abuse against the bad man.

• 1:26:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:30Georgia Hardstark?

  He's identified as Thomas Carey, who was actually arrested and convicted of sexually abusing children in the 90s.

• 1:26:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Shit.

• 1:26:37Georgia Hardstark?

  So he was a legit. Fucking pedophile.

• 1:26:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Chronic. Yeah, and he served time, but he's now free, which is fun.

• 1:26:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Whoa. In Newfoundland?

• 1:26:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, yeah, in a different city.

• 1:26:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:26:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So, but as far as this dude murdering Dana, they believe that Robert read about the case and became a victim of false memory syndrome.

• 1:26:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Hmm.

• 1:27:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Where a person believes a memory to be true and his, and it colors their whole life and they believe everything. So they think that he just read so much about it because the stuff he read, the stuff that he knew was stuff you could read about in the papers.

• 1:27:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, so he basically got super into the case and then his memories began to fill in and match what he'd read.

• 1:27:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And maybe he was an alcoholic and didn't remember doing all this stuff. And it is true, they talked to his dad and his dad like corroborates that the man, who the guy was and that he was around and that he probably molested his kids. Also that, uh, in the first couple of weeks of the investigation, they did come and take a look at his car because they were checking everyone's car that was similar. So maybe he had a memory of that somehow.

• 1:27:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck.

• 1:27:44Georgia Hardstark?

  So they don't believe it's true, but a huge, big group of civilians, uh, do believe it. They have a Facebook group and there's like 10,000 people on it.

• 1:27:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, amazing.

• 1:27:51Georgia Hardstark?

  And they believe Robert's story. And so in May-

• 1:27:54Karen Kilgariff?

  I do too.

• 1:27:55Georgia Hardstark?

  I know, you could be one of them. In May 2016, they collect enough money to evacuate the car. Evacuate, excavate.

• 1:28:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 1:28:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Evacuate it from the ground.

• 1:28:08Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, same idea.

• 1:28:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, it is.

• 1:28:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Just go, kind of going up, different direction. Yeah, up and out of dirt.

• 1:28:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Money to excavate the car. It says excavate. Um, but before it was completed, so these fucking poor people are like, we believe it, we're gonna do it, justice for Dana. Like, all they want is for Dana's murder to be solved because it's such a small town and like fucked everyone up so much.

• 1:28:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:32Georgia Hardstark?

  So they're doing it. And then while they're doing it, before it's completed, the fucking RCMP is like, hey, guess what, you guys? We retested some old DNA from the case with advanced technologies and were able to connect the DNA to an unknown male suspect. So it's not that fucking dude. It's just some, it's not one of the suspects we have right now. It's just an unknown. Not, they, they have to test it against the suspects, but it's not, a man is not in the data, in the system.

• 1:29:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Whoa.

• 1:29:03Georgia Hardstark?

  So those poor people are like, shit. And then they like, yeah.

• 1:29:08Karen Kilgariff?

  That seems a little mean. I wanna believe in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

• 1:29:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, we all do.

• 1:29:14Karen Kilgariff?

  They have such great chins. But I don't like this.

• 1:29:19Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 1:29:19Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't like, I don't like this.

• 1:29:21Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. Well, how about we independently check the DNA? Us in the pod loft?

• 1:29:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I've got my spinning, uh, my spinning thing.

• 1:29:30Georgia Hardstark?

  How about in the DNA loft? We make this into a DNA loft?

• 1:29:33Karen Kilgariff?

  We seal this off.

• 1:29:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Seal it off, no cats allowed.

• 1:29:36Karen Kilgariff?

  We get those, it's like hazmat suits.

• 1:29:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:39Karen Kilgariff?

  We handle things.

• 1:29:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Gloves.

• 1:29:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:29:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, we'll do it. Um, and they, so they tested the DNA against Thomas Carey, no match. He's officially ruled out as a suspect. Um, but there are also other cases of missing and murdered women in the area around that time that might be connected to Dana. In fact, the chief medical examiner, Simon Avis, stated that at least two serial killers have been active in the province and that one of them is due to be released from prison, but he wouldn't tell them who it was.

• 1:30:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, shit.

• 1:30:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Hey, guess what?

• 1:30:13Karen Kilgariff?

  That's fucked.

• 1:30:14Georgia Hardstark?

  So they have, oh yeah, right. God, tell me more, please.

• 1:30:18Karen Kilgariff?

  I know.

• 1:30:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, they still received many new tips, but for now, all they can do is test the DNA against their hundreds of suspects in the hopes of finally finding Dana Bradley's killer.

• 1:30:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 1:30:32Georgia Hardstark?

  And that's the murder of Dana Bradley.

• 1:30:34Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so intense. It, I feel like you said the perfect detail at the beginning that hooked me in in the worst way. Those brothers seeing her hitchhiking and thinking she was too little to be hitchhiking, just set that tone of like-

• 1:30:52Georgia Hardstark?

  She's a baby.

• 1:30:53Karen Kilgariff?

  She's a baby.

• 1:30:53Georgia Hardstark?

  And she, yeah.

• 1:30:54Karen Kilgariff?

  And that happens.

• 1:30:55Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 1:30:56Karen Kilgariff?

  We read these stories all the time and we get like, the more I do these stories and you see this repetitive, the habit of calling people, um, prostitutes and, and hookers and, um, basically like they're so, especially in, you know, the Hillside Stranglers.

• 1:31:13Georgia Hardstark?

  I bet.

• 1:31:14Karen Kilgariff?

  They, it's leads with prostitute, prostitute. She's a prostitute.

• 1:31:18Georgia Hardstark?

  It's dismissive.

• 1:31:19Karen Kilgariff?

  And totally reductive. And it's like, they should, it should be like, she looked like she was 12. Like, it's that-

• 1:31:27Georgia Hardstark?

  But also like saying she was 14, you think of her a little more, a little older? Like at 14, I had gotten into some shit, you know? But then you look at an actual 14 year old and everyday, normal 14 year old, especially back in the fucking seventies and eighties.

• 1:31:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Ugh.

• 1:31:42Georgia Hardstark?

  And they were little babies.

• 1:31:43Karen Kilgariff?

  They're little babies. And even, I, I mean, like what they look like is, when I went home, um, for the holidays, I remember sitting, my sister and I laughed about this. Remember the guy that was running, um, for something in the south and he was the one that had been kicked out of the mall for harassing teenage girls?

• 1:32:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:32:03Karen Kilgariff?

  And it was that whole thing where people started talking about like, it's fine. And, you know?

• 1:32:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Down here, people can, you're allowed to date 16 year olds and all that weird shit. When we went home, my sister and I were sitting at Christmas and one of my, my two nieces were there. One of them had just gone off to college and one, I believe was a freshman. And I was like, would you want?

• 1:32:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Anna to be dating that guy? Like, would you really go online and be like, it's fine that my niece dates that old man? Like teenage girls are such a fetishized, kind of like, you know, sexualized and like overly matured-

• 1:32:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:44Karen Kilgariff?

  -group where it's like, oh yeah, hot teenage girl, whatever. Where it's like-

• 1:32:48Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:32:48Karen Kilgariff?

  They're children.

• 1:32:49Georgia Hardstark?

  They're children and they have had no life experience yet. They don't know how to live, you know, make good decisions yet and be on their own. And they're not, they're not adults. Their brains aren't fucking complete.

• 1:33:02Karen Kilgariff?

  And they're, they're still half children.

• 1:33:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, that's the thing to remember.

• 1:33:07Georgia Hardstark?

  It kind of fucked me up when I, so, you know, I did a lot of shit and I was 13 and 14. And then when I was in my twenties, I was with a guy for a long time, my boyfriend who had a, a daughter who was 10 when I met him. And then, so I was with him for a few years and saw her at 13 and 14. And it kind of hit me as like, seeing her and how sweet and young and innocent she was. And she, I thought I was a big adult back then.

• 1:33:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Of course.

• 1:33:34Georgia Hardstark?

  And it kind of put everything into perspective of what I had done and what had been done to me back then.

• 1:33:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:40Georgia Hardstark?

  It was so like, I mean, it's just, yeah, it's troubling.

• 1:33:44Karen Kilgariff?

  It's heavy shit, but it, it's, um, yeah.

• 1:33:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Try to be as young as you can for as long as you can.

• 1:33:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Do it.

• 1:33:53Karen Kilgariff?

  It's not, grow, you'll grow up inevitably. It's gonna happen.

• 1:33:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it's a real bummer.

• 1:33:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Eh, kids don't ever listen when you say stuff like that to them.

• 1:34:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Do kids listen to this? Stop listening to this.

• 1:34:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, we've met a couple.

• 1:34:03Georgia Hardstark?

  That's true.

• 1:34:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, little baby children, girls that come up.

• 1:34:07Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 1:34:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Um. Always with their mothers.

• 1:34:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Always with their mothers.

• 1:34:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Listen to your mothers.

• 1:34:17Karen Kilgariff?

  And we're back. Do you have any updates?

• 1:34:20Georgia Hardstark?

  No. And I, I mean, I looked it up just to see if there's any little speck of an update. Did, you know, they have the DNA? There's nothing. And it's, I mean, I feel like this has gotta be one of those ones where it's like, in the next year or two, we're gonna hear something.

• 1:34:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 1:34:36Georgia Hardstark?

  We have to. It's a 14 year old girl who was brutally murdered like 40 years ago. Like, let's get this solved. So, not yet, but maybe-

• 1:34:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, the way that it seems like cold case teams are being put together these days.

• 1:34:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:50Karen Kilgariff?

  I feel like that's part of the story. Every time we hear about something getting cleared, it's because they had just put a task force together or they finally had money for a cold case team.

• 1:35:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Yeah. Hopefully, well, when we do rewind, rewind episodes and do this one again, then hopefully by then there'll be updates.

• 1:35:12Karen Kilgariff?

  And it'll just be you and I looking in the mirror.

• 1:35:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Crying.

• 1:35:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, just weeping uncontrollably. Now it's time for good things of the week.

• 1:35:27Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:35:30Speaker 01

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings. 911 Nashville returns.

• 1:35:37Speaker 02

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 1:35:39Speaker 03

  Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:35:40Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:35:43Speaker 03

  Hell, since swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 1:35:46Speaker 02

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 1:35:47Speaker 03

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:35:50Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:35:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Whether you're buying, renting, or selling, Zillow can help make your someday today. To help find a home that fits where you are in life, or that apartment that's a little closer to where you want to be. Zillow has the right information, tools, and support to help turn your future home into a reality. Because someday starts today. Visit zillow.com/today to get started.

• 1:36:22Speaker 04

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• 1:36:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, so, all right, here's the, I don't know, this is the end of the show where we do say nice things. It doesn't have to have a name, right?

• 1:36:58Karen Kilgariff?

  It doesn't have to have a name, but we've been getting suggestions in a way that is, it's endearing.

• 1:37:03Georgia Hardstark?

  It is.

• 1:37:04Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's also hilarious.

• 1:37:06Georgia Hardstark?

  People are trying, and they're trying in a way that makes me real, makes me feel better that there is no fucking proper name for this. They're trying so hard and none of them are working.

• 1:37:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, you know why? Because people, you know, it's the thing of, should it be funny? Should it be a pun? Should it be sincere?

• 1:37:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:24Karen Kilgariff?

  I think I took a picture of one that I liked. Oh, you have the list? I put a list down. Steven made a list?

• 1:37:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Steven made a list. Here, you take it.

• 1:37:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, thanks, I get to read it. Georgia knows I love stuff like this. Okay, I'm gonna read it and you can tell me. You just say yes or no off the top of your head. Kathy suggested happy talk.

• 1:37:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:37:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Megan suggested rejuvenation station.

• 1:37:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, that reminds me, it makes me have a vagina immediately.

• 1:37:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Rejuvenation station.

• 1:37:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Isn't that what you get done?

• 1:37:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Feed up in the stirrups?

• 1:37:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, isn't that plastic surgery?

• 1:37:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Vaginal rejuvenation.

• 1:38:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, right.

• 1:38:01Karen Kilgariff?

  That's my favorite comedy line that I ever wrote. Or, not ever, but like, it was one of the earliest ones. When Zach Alfenek had his talk show, Late World was Zach on VH1.

• 1:38:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah. I totally forgot about that.

• 1:38:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Right, it was my second staff writing job.

• 1:38:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my god.

• 1:38:16Karen Kilgariff?

  And Sarah Silverman, they did a tape piece where Sarah went to a vaginal plastic surgeon to interview him. And I wrote it, and one of the, I mean, of course, she riffed a ton of shit herself, of course, but one of the things I wrote for her to say that she delivered so perfectly, and it was my favorite thing, is, "After a day of rejuvenating vaginas, how can you believe in love?" And it's the way she did it, I know that wording probably isn't right on, but the way she did it, she had this big smile on her face and the guy just stares at her like he has no idea what she's talking about. That's my brag. I can figure out any way to talk about myself. Have you noticed that?

• 1:38:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, but there are good stories, at least.

• 1:38:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, god, I'm so sick of my own voice.

• 1:39:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Nick suggested cheerful chasers.

• 1:39:05Georgia Hardstark?

  No, sorry, Nick.

• 1:39:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Nick, and I see. Anna and Jerry suggested my favorite moment.

• 1:39:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, that's cute.

• 1:39:13Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, that's smart. They're marketing experts, probably.

• 1:39:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:16Karen Kilgariff?

  They're like, keep it on brand.

• 1:39:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, but I don't want to have to say that every week.

• 1:39:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Elizabeth said my favorite party vibes. And she had a you in it, so she's from somewhere else.

• 1:39:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Nice.

• 1:39:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Canada or England. Molly said put a pin in it.

• 1:39:31Georgia Hardstark?

  I like it.

• 1:39:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Hilla Monster said postmortem positivity.

• 1:39:36Georgia Hardstark?

  That's good.

• 1:39:37Karen Kilgariff?

  It just takes so long to say.

• 1:39:39Georgia Hardstark?

  It does.

• 1:39:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Andrea said kicks and kudos. Andrea's going for it.

• 1:39:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Andrea's a mom.

• 1:39:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Andrea did some high kicks.

• 1:39:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Jenny with an I said, "Post-pod, pick me up."

• 1:39:52Karen Kilgariff?

  And then, to go along with that alliteration, Tara says positivity pocket.

• 1:39:58Georgia Hardstark?

  See, it's impossible.

• 1:40:00Karen Kilgariff?

  It's hilarious. Colette says suggested my current jam.

• 1:40:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:40:06Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't mind it. Sarah says, "We should call it fucking hooray."

• 1:40:13Georgia Hardstark?

  I think that's it.

• 1:40:14Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, that's, I think Steven put that at the end because he knew that we would like it the best.

• 1:40:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Can you make up a jingle, Karen?

• 1:40:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Am I right? For, "Oh, oh, it's fucking hooray."

• 1:40:24Georgia Hardstark?

  There. Yes, you can.

• 1:40:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Just came out of me. That's beautiful. That was my favorite. Was it? Yeah. Yeah. Fucking hooray, I mean.

• 1:40:32Georgia Hardstark?

  That's perfect.

• 1:40:33Karen Kilgariff?

  It's pretty nailed, it pretty nailed it.

• 1:40:35Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, fucking hooray it is. Who did it? What's her name again?

• 1:40:37Karen Kilgariff?

  That was Sarah with an H.

• 1:40:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Sarah with an H.

• 1:40:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Congratulations, I mean.

• 1:40:41Georgia Hardstark?

  You win.

• 1:40:42Karen Kilgariff?

  But Megan, rejuvenation station?

• 1:40:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:45Karen Kilgariff?

  You're right there, the closest of seconds. But again, the vagina part, it's not your problem, it's not your fault.

• 1:40:52Georgia Hardstark?

  If this was, if this was purely a feminism podcast, they would win. What is your fucking hooray? Want me to go first?

• 1:41:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, do you have one?

• 1:41:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, mine is that someone suggested I start reading this again, and I'm so glad I did because it's so positive. It's Tiny Beautiful Things. It's the Dear Sugar book by Cheryl Strayed, who wrote Wild. She was this anonymous advice columnist for years, and the book is a, like a, what's it called? Compilation of like some of her best, but it tells the story. It's so beautiful, she's so incredible. The way she talks to people who are going through this traumatic crazy shit is so real and human. And even if it's problems that you've never gone through, which most of them are, but you can relate to in some way, it's really great advice and just a really great life lesson. I can't recommend it enough. Tiny Beautiful Things.

• 1:41:46Karen Kilgariff?

  So Tiny Beautiful Things is another advice book?

• 1:41:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. It's the Dear Sugar book.

• 1:41:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:41:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Is it red?

• 1:41:54Georgia Hardstark?

  It's orange, yeah, orange. Is that it? Do you have it? Yes. Okay.

• 1:41:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, I didn't realize that was the title.

• 1:42:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it's called Tiny Beautiful Things. It's the Dear Sugar book by Cheryl Strayed.

• 1:42:04Karen Kilgariff?

  I've also read it, it's amazing.

• 1:42:07Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so great.

• 1:42:07Karen Kilgariff?

  It's really smart. It's like advice in that way, like, I used to, like, when I used to read Elle and I'd always read Dear E. Jean.

• 1:42:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:15Karen Kilgariff?

  And like, sometimes her advice was great and really direct and, you know, badass, but then also sometimes it was like, I don't, I'm not with this.

• 1:42:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, this take on life. Because everybody's different.

• 1:42:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 1:42:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Whatever. I'm with that shit that Dear Sugar talks about.

• 1:42:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, she does what you do, which is, takes every question as a chance to talk about herself and her life. But then somehow fucking turns it into this incredible, in this incredible way to relate to the person and then, and then also empathize with them so incredibly hard. It's just, it's obviously this, the person who wrote it, Dear Sugar, is just so, she's so, she's so human and so empathetic and thoughtful. It's really a beautiful book. And you'll, and you'll, you'll grow and heal from it, too, yourself.

• 1:43:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Awesome.

• 1:43:02Georgia Hardstark?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:43:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Okay, that's a good one.

• 1:43:04Georgia Hardstark?

  That's my hooray, fucking hooray.

• 1:43:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, fucking hooray.

• 1:43:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Fucking hooray.

• 1:43:08Karen Kilgariff?

  That works, that title really works.

• 1:43:11Karen Kilgariff?

  I, mine is a little weird, but I'm finding, uh, I got this book on tape, I just haven't been feeling good about myself in a, just physically way. And just haven't been active, and I know that, like, moving around immediately makes me feel better, and the less I do it, the less I want to do it.

• 1:43:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally, totally.

• 1:43:35Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's just, you know, I've been complaining to you privately about this for quite some time.

• 1:43:39Georgia Hardstark?

  It's our life.

• 1:43:41Karen Kilgariff?

  So there is, uh, I just looked, started looking randomly, was like, what should I do? I need to do something right now. And I'm like, I'll listen to a podcast. So I, first I found a podcast called Half Size Me, which is hosted by a woman who is doing that thing where she's standing in one leg of the pants she used to wear. And she is, I don't have the, Steven, will you find her name for me? Just so I can say it, but it's such a great podcast. She talks to people who, basically, listened to the podcast and lost weight. And they just talk about how they did it, what they did, like, what's effective.

• 1:44:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:18Karen Kilgariff?

  And she is really positive, really like, I just love it. There's so many ways to do that kind of talking incorrectly of like, fitness, or like, you know, what you need to do is you just dig in, or whatever, where it's like, but if you don't understand the feeling of having 40, 60, 80 extra pounds on your body, you just don't know, like, there are people that give advice that have no idea what they're fucking talking about in that specific way. So it's very cool, it's a woman who did it, and then is just talking to other people about how they did it.

• 1:44:47Georgia Hardstark?

  That's incredible. Because it's different for every single person.

• 1:44:51Karen Kilgariff?

  It's different for everybody, and it's really helpful to just hear real people who are like, yeah, yeah, that's what I was like, too, and I did this.

• 1:44:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, it's harder to say, it's harder to be like, "I can't do that," when someone's like, "But I did it."

• 1:45:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Right?

• 1:45:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly. Because when you're sitting at home alone, you're like, "There's just no way," and forget it. It's the easiest thing to do.

• 1:45:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:09Karen Kilgariff?

  But when you're listening to people who are like, "Yeah, I thought it was impossible, but here's what, here's what inspired me this day, this day, this..."

• 1:45:15Georgia Hardstark?

  How about then your, your goal is to be on that podcast?

• 1:45:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly. No, it really is because, oh, sweet, her name is Heather Robertson? Thanks, Steven.

• 1:45:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Cool.

• 1:45:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Heather Robertson.

• 1:45:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Half-size me.

• 1:45:27Karen Kilgariff?

  But, but the, actually, so that's how I found this book.

• 1:45:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:45:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Because she recommends that everybody that's going to, like, get into that whole thing, read this book first.

• 1:45:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:45:39Karen Kilgariff?

  The book is called The Diet Fix. And it's by a doctor named Yoni Friedhof. And he is, I think, I believe he's Canadian.

• 1:45:49Karen Kilgariff?

  It's basically the book you read when you have read every fucking diet book, you've tried every diet and you now don't know what to do because you have too much information. And he calls people traumatized dieters. And he's, the idea is you have to stop dieting. You have to stop restricting. You have to stop being mean to yourself and beating yourself up. And you have to start looking at all, all of it. Like, how are you going to do it in the positive way?

• 1:46:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Radical self-acceptance.

• 1:46:15Karen Kilgariff?

  It is. We were being sarcastic, but that's totally what it is. And it just like, I am the quickest at restarting to listen to something and being like bullshit and you're full of bullshit and goodbye. And

• 1:46:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, you know what, you know what opening yourself up to and letting and trying it is just vulnerability. Because I'm also reading fucking Daring Greatly again.

• 1:46:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Brené Brown.

• 1:46:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Brené Brown.

• 1:46:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Brené Brown.

• 1:46:35Georgia Hardstark?

  This is the self-help corner.

• 1:46:37Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, there's, here's the thing. When you actually find for, I've read a million self-help books. So like, that's why when I read Brené Brown's books, I was like, holy shit, this is real. Because it isn't the usual, you know, the patterns and you know that talk and you know, the like, you've just got to believe in yourself, whatever. It's like, that's not going to help me get off the couch. What is? Like, how do I get inspired? And this, the Diet Fix book unclenched something in my brain in the best way. That just kind of made me go like, yeah, I'll just make little changes and just start.

• 1:47:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Awesome. Little changes. That's, that's a big part of it, right? Like, because you're always like, I'm gonna stop doing this entire life thing.

• 1:47:21Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, how many times on the road was I like, just, I would just turn to Georgia and be like, I'm just not going to eat macaroni and cheese at 11 o'clock anymore. And then Vince would be like, so we got to order dinner for after the show. And I'd be like, I'll go ahead and get some mac and cheese. Like, is that thing of when, I don't know, things are stressful, things, things are busy, and you just want your guaranteed comfort?

• 1:47:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Comfort, yeah.

• 1:47:46Karen Kilgariff?

  You just, it's like, if you don't know where else to get it, then you just go to the same well every time. And then that's how like, and he talks about this in that Diet Fix book, where you've, if dieting worked, everybody would be thin.

• 1:47:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 1:48:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And you beat yourself up for not being able to do a thing that no one can do.

• 1:48:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Because even like, I've gone on things where I don't eat sugar for two years. You can do that, but you can't sustain it.

• 1:48:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Because if you're not living happily, then you can't continue to live that way.

• 1:48:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:48:18Karen Kilgariff?

  And so the goal is to figure out how to live happily without abusing yourself with food.

• 1:48:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:24Karen Kilgariff?

  That's all. So it's, I mean, I hate to talk about stuff like this. I will say this. I am, you, you be exactly the way you want to be. Just feel good.

• 1:48:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:48:36Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm talking about this right now because I don't.

• 1:48:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Not, not, not, it's not about you're at the wrong size. It's, I don't feel good in my body right now.

• 1:48:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Interior, being uncomfortable. And being uncomfortable makes me mad at myself and then I'm mean to myself. So like, the idea that I'm listening to a thing that's going, yeah, the whole, it's not figure out a new way to be mean, mean to yourself.

• 1:48:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:58Karen Kilgariff?

  It's going, no, stop all, clear all the meanness out.

• 1:49:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:02Karen Kilgariff?

  And start over. And here's how you do it.

• 1:49:06Georgia Hardstark?

  What's it called again, the book?

• 1:49:07Karen Kilgariff?

  The Diet Fix by Yoni Friedhof. And the only reason I knew about it is because Heather and her Half Size Me podcast were just a delight to listen to. It's like two ladies laughing about the way it's been and then the way it is now.

• 1:49:23Georgia Hardstark?

  I want to listen. I love it.

• 1:49:24Karen Kilgariff?

  It's very cool.

• 1:49:25Georgia Hardstark?

  That's awesome.

• 1:49:26Karen Kilgariff?

  But also do what you want.

• 1:49:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, that was fucking hooray.

• 1:49:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, we're back. And this is the first time that fucking hooray is used, which is

• 1:49:42Karen Kilgariff?

  This is a show.

• 1:49:43Georgia Hardstark?

  exciting. It became huge.

• 1:49:45Karen Kilgariff?

  The birthplace. I mean, we, it was so needed.

• 1:49:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it was perfect. Also Tiny Beautiful Things, the book I was reading was adapted into a Hulu limited series starring the great Catherine Hawn, which premiered in April of 2023.

• 1:49:59Karen Kilgariff?

  I love Catherine Hawn so much.

• 1:50:01Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. She's so delightful.

• 1:50:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Every time I see her, the thing she's wearing makes me crazy with jealousy. And the way her hair looks makes me crazy with jealousy.

• 1:50:10Georgia Hardstark?

  She's a cool girl.

• 1:50:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, she's so cool. But it's like, her look is it.

• 1:50:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:16Karen Kilgariff?

  When I do that, it just looks like I let my hair air dry and I didn't put any product in it. So irritating.

• 1:50:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. We love you, Catherine Hawn.

• 1:50:24Karen Kilgariff?

  We love you, Catherine Hawn. So originally, we titled this episode Civic Order. Not one of our best.

• 1:50:31Georgia Hardstark?

  No, not very funny.

• 1:50:33Karen Kilgariff?

  But if we were naming it today, maybe we could call it

• 1:50:36Georgia Hardstark?

  The numbing shit, for sure. Although, we don't use curse words a lot in our, in our titles, do we?

• 1:50:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Not in a title, no. Don't yonce with strangers is hilarious. So really good advice.

• 1:50:49Georgia Hardstark?

  We talked about Frank, Frank Salerno, of course.

• 1:50:52Karen Kilgariff?

  And of course, Rejuvenation Station.

• 1:50:54Georgia Hardstark?

  That's the one.

• 1:50:55Karen Kilgariff?

  A listener submitted segment that needs to be

• 1:50:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Celebrated.

• 1:51:00Karen Kilgariff?

  That needs its own spinoff podcast. All right. Well, that's this week's episode of the Rewind.

• 1:51:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's go say goodbye from 2018.

• 1:51:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Thanks, Sarah.

• 1:51:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. Now I really like, feel like saying fucking hooray.

• 1:51:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Fucking hooray.

• 1:51:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Cool. Thanks for listening, you guys. You know, you're the best.

• 1:51:21Karen Kilgariff?

  We love you.

• 1:51:22Georgia Hardstark?

  We love you.

• 1:51:23Karen Kilgariff?

  And stay sexy.

• 1:51:24Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered. Goodbye.

• 1:51:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Elvis, you want a cookie?

• 1:51:30Karen Kilgariff?

  That sounded like a gold door opening. Hey, are you okay? Oh, okay. Okay, fine.

• 1:51:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, here we go.

• 1:51:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Calling all amateur detectives and podcast obsessives.

• 1:51:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Virgin Voyages' second True Crime Voyage sets sail March 20th, 2027 for a five-night escape to Grand Turk and the Beach Club at Bimini.

• 1:51:54Karen Kilgariff?

  As part of the On Air at Sea collection, this immersive sailing brings together fan favorite podcasts, including Disgrace Land, Buried Bones, and Wisecrack for live recordings, behind-the-scenes access, exclusive meet and greets, and crime-themed programming that you won't find anywhere else.

• 1:52:10Georgia Hardstark?

  All aboard our award-winning, kid-free ships.

• 1:52:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to virginvoyages.com/truecrime to secure your spot.

• 1:52:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 1:52:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. Laundry stinks. Literally. I mean, you could just keep buying new underwear. Not that I've ever done that. Or maybe sort your clothes into piles based on how re-wearable or filthy they are. Or just use Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. It's made for real life stinks and stains. So even if you don't do laundry the quote, "right way," Deep Clean will knock it out. I mean, it is from the number one liquid detergent brand that tackles more loads than any other. Come clean with Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. Number one claim based on total wash loads sold.

• 1:52:55Speaker 01

  I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast, the true crime comedy podcast, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week, I bring on an amazing guest. Ooh, I scam them. What? I could talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper, like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.