Kelsey Grammer Reveals All: Lessons on Love, Loss, Healing & Remembering (Pt 1)

Full Video Available on YouTube ⁠@JamieKernLimaOfficial⁠. Are You Ready to believe in YOU?🙌⁠ jamiekernlima.com⁠ 👈 Sign up for my FREE Inspirational Newsletter here and you’ll ALSO get special prompt questions to help you grow in your self-worth-building that pair with each episode!🩷 Make sure to click the “Follow” button for the show on your favorite podcast app, so you’ll be the first to get each episode! Get your tissues out, and get ready to remember the experiences, feelings and people who matter most to you in your life! This is a side of Kelsey Grammer you’ve never seen before, he’s truly heart-wide-open in this soulful, vulnerable, emotional interview! How do you remember the people in your life who you loved, and have lost? And have you considered how that impacts your life, your healing, your spirit and your joy today? Today we’re talking about love, loss, healing, remembering… and celebrating a joy-filled life…with my guest today, Kelsey Grammer. Kelsey is a Golden Globe Award winning, Emmy Award winning, Tony Award winning, Screen Actors Guild Award winning, People’s Choice Award winning actor, comedian and producer. He first gained fame for his role as Dr. Frasier Crane on this hit TV show Cheers, and later it’s spin-off Frasier, making primetime television history playing one of the longest-running roles, for more than 20 years, by a single actor. He is the founder of the Faith American Brewing Company, a husband to his wife Kayte, and the father of 7 children! It was recently announced he’ll be playing BEAST in the much anticipated Avenger’s Doomsday, and today, we’re actually seeing a deeply personal and intimate part of Kelsey, in perhaps one of the most important and meaningful works of his life, Kelsey’s brand new book: where he explores love, loss, healing and celebrating the memory of a life filled with joy. In Karen: A Brother Remembers, Kelsey shares the tragic story of the death of his sister, Karen, who was brutally murdered at the age of eighteen, and the journey of his own path to healing in his life. In Karen: A Brother Remembers, Kelsey aims to help others who have experienced similar loss, offering solace and encouragement to cherish the love they knew, however brief, on their own path toward healing. And whether you're joining me today for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show podcast family. And remember this episode is not just for you and me. Please share it with every single person that you know because it can change their life too. Episode Reflection Questions for YOU: Jamie writes prompt questions each episode to spark revelations in your self-worth journey and help you apply the tools and lessons from each episode into your real life right now. Please make sure you’re signed up for Jamie’s free inspirational newsletter ⁠ jamiekernlima.com⁠ 👈 Get my new book WORTHY plus FREE Bonus gifts including a 95+ page Worthy Workbook and more at ⁠WorthyBook.com⁠ For more resources related to today’s episode, click here ⁠https://jamiekernlima.com/show/⁠ for the podcast episode page. Chapters: 0:00 Welcome to The Jamie Kern Lima Show 2:34 "Remembering Can Heal" 13:20 On Letting Go Of Grief 31:02 Thoughts On God Doubt 38:20 Loved Ones With You 42:47 Signs From Loved Ones Past 45:10 The Prayer For Proof God Is Love It’s such an honor to share this podcast together with you. And please note: I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is NOT intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Click⁠ Here⁠ to Subscribe to the YouTube Channel Follow me here: ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠TikTok⁠ ⁠Facebook⁠ ⁠Website⁠ — Sign up for my inspirational newsletter for YOU at:⁠ jamiekernlima.com⁠ — Looking for my books on Amazon? Here they are! ⁠WORTHY⁠ ⁠Believe IT

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I think the message that came through was Karen saying it's time. You need to remember and live your life.

• 0:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was a really, it was, it was a great moment. She said, I've missed you.

• 0:23Speaker 00

  So I do this all the time. I do this with my kids. And they all go like, oh, here he goes again. Grief is a heavyweight to continue to carry. It's, it's very hard. And you do, you suffer through with this idea that, oh, by letting go of the grief, you're somehow letting go of them. But I, I learned through this book that that isn't the case. By hanging on to the things that are good, actually, I'm closer to her as I was when I was with her, when she was with us. And so she is with us again. That's, that's the key.

• 0:54Jamie Kern Lima?

  How do you remember the people in your life who you loved and have lost? And have you considered how that impacts your life, your healing, your spirit and your joy today? Well, today we're talking about love, loss, healing, remembering and celebrating a joy-filled life with my guest today, Kelsey Grammer. You're opening the-

• 1:18Speaker 00

  Cocktail onions.

• 1:19Jamie Kern Lima?

  Cocktail onions. See, I did my homework. I read that you love cocktail onions. I'm like, okay, we've got to have them on the set.

• 1:26Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:27Jamie Kern Lima?

  I was a Denny's waitress, which I just learned. You're a Denny's-

• 1:30Speaker 00

  Denny's dishwasher.

• 1:31Jamie Kern Lima?

  Dishwasher. I actually go and celebrate at Denny's to this day.

• 1:35Speaker 00

  Oh, bother.

• 1:35Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah. And I see you're getting emotional. Kelsey is a Golden Globe Award-winning, Emmy Award-winning, Tony Award-winning, Screen Actors Guild Award-winning, People's Choice Award-winning actor, comedian and producer. He first gained fame for his role as Dr. Fraser Crane on the hit TV show Cheers and later its spin-off Frasier, making primetime television history, playing one of the longest-running roles for more than 20 years by a single actor. He is the founder of Faith American Brewing Company, a husband to his wife Kate and the father of seven children. It was- Recently announced, he'll be playing Beast in the much anticipated Avengers: Doomsday.

• 2:15Jamie Kern Lima?

  And today, we're actually seeing a deeply personal and intimate part of Kelsey. In perhaps one of the most important and meaningful works of his life, Kelsey's brand-new book, where he explores love, loss, healing, and celebrating the memory of a life filled with joy.

• 2:34Speaker 00

  Remember is my favorite word. That is the most powerful word in the English language. The idea that you were once a member of something, you were once close to another person in their membership. And when you remember them, they're no longer gone.

• 2:49Jamie Kern Lima?

  What you just said about remember, like, just sent chills through my whole body. To break down the word, for so many people listening right now, they have loved ones they've lost. And for you to say, "Remember," you were a member with them. You were in membership with them. And by remembering, it's almost like you reignite that connection, that aliveness, that in-membership with them.

• 3:15Speaker 00

  Yeah. I said, "We gotta put a bullet in this thing." I mean, we have to kill this show. He said, "I can't. I can't kill it." And I knew my life, I knew my life was changing. I thought, "It's changing." And then I met Kate. And he said, "I was on that flight when you and Kate met." He told me that I said to him, "I think I'm gonna marry that girl."

• 3:34Jamie Kern Lima?

  Wow.

• 3:37Speaker 00

  You have a relationship with God, if you have one and you're listening. You know, you don't need to doubt it. It's really there. I was in a conversation with Jesus. And I thought, "Boy, this is really, really interesting, but it's as clear and vivid as anything I've ever done." I was like, "Hey, you don't need to keep carrying this. I've got it."

• 3:57Speaker 00

  That was the big thing. He said, "I got it." I said, "Well, what do you mean, 'I got it?'" "I mean, I'm fine. I can handle it. It's all right." He said, "No, no, this is not for you. That's why I came. You don't need to carry this." So I can give it up?

• 4:15Speaker 00

  It's a good thing.

• 4:19Jamie Kern Lima?

  In Karen, Kelsey shares the tragic story of the death of his sister Karen, who was brutally murdered at the age of 18, and the journey of his own path to healing in his life. In Karen, Kelsey aims to help others who have experienced similar loss, offering solace and encouragement to cherish the love they knew, however brief, on their own path toward healing. And whether today you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show Podcast Family. And if you're here right now, can you do me a quick favor? If you like the show and the guests that I bring you, if you could please hit the subscribe or follow button on the app that you're

• 5:02Jamie Kern Lima?

  listening or watching on, it truly means the world to me. Thank you so much. And I want to remind you that this episode, it's not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person you know, because what you're about to hear could change your life, and theirs too. Also, every episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show features a wide range of guests. I believe that you can't help heal humanity through love unless you understand the humans that make it up. I have friends who vote differently, love differently, and believe completely differently than me. I've gotten hate for giving them love, but I'll never stop doing that because I know why I'm here, and it's to be a force for love. This world, now more than ever,

• 5:47Jamie Kern Lima?

  desperately needs the force for love inside each of us. You can't help heal humanity through love if you only love the people who are just like you and aren't truly open and curious about the humans who make up the collective humanity that I believe is possible for all of us to heal together. And with that, let's get this episode started.

• 6:09Speaker 02

  Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

• 6:13Speaker 03

  Oprah, how have you defied the odds?

• 6:16Speaker 04

  Her show is unlike any I've ever done. A revelation. When you listen, it feels like a hug, but your brain and your spirit and your heart is like, wow.

• 6:27Speaker 03

  Melinda French Gates.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  When I look into Jamie's eyes, I feel like I am on some other cosmic level with her.

• 6:36Speaker 03

  I could see the light around her. She's infused with light. Imagine overcoming self-doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself and know you are enough. Welcome to The Jamie Kern Lima Show.

• 6:51Speaker 04

  Jamie Kern Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  Jamie Kern Lima.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern Lima.

• 7:06Jamie Kern Lima?

  Kelsey Grammer, welcome to The Jamie Kern Lima Show.

• 7:09Speaker 00

  Thank you. Thanks, Jamie. That was lovely.

• 7:11Jamie Kern Lima?

  I see you're getting emotional listening to it.

• 7:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:14Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, you got it. That's why I wrote it. It just turned out to be that was the mission. I didn't know it at first because I got a very strange imperative saying, you know, write this. Well, it didn't say write, actually. It just said tell, tell my story through my sister, from my sister through Esther, somebody we were working with at the time. And so it's, it just turned into the book.

• 7:42Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah.

• 7:43Speaker 00

  It was a wonderful exploration and discovery all at the same time because I rediscovered my life with Karen. I discovered a purpose for writing the book while writing it. And I really just wanted to help people find some peace, like the word solace, you know, some understanding that we are not alone, we're with God and one another.

• 8:11Speaker 00

  That that person, when remembered, is no longer distant or lost. In the moment of memory, they're reinvigorated, they're revivified, and are brought back to life in our minds, in our memories, in our extension of thought to them, they live again. So that's kind of what I wanted to say to people.

• 8:32Jamie Kern Lima?

  Which is so beautiful. I mean, I think, you know, every person who lives long enough and who's blessed enough to love somebody, deals with loss and grief. And you talk a lot in the book, Karen, which everyone should go pick up their copy.

• 8:50Speaker 00

  Yes, they should.

• 8:51Jamie Kern Lima?

  Immediately. But you talk a lot about the power of remembering. And can you share just a little bit more about that?

• 9:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. What, um, my first understanding of the, when remember is my favorite word. And my first comprehension of that was when I was 18, I was asked by one of the, one of the girls at the dance class school that was on the same floor at Juilliard as I was, that the drama department and the dance school was on the same floor. So we would all sort of co-mingle. And one of the girls said, I want to set a new piece I'm working on, she was choreographing, to music, but I want the music to be the spoken word. And I have this poem that I'd like you to read for me while I do these dancing moves. And I said, sure. So, and the poem had the word remember in it. And at which point I thought, boy, that is the most powerful word

• 9:48Speaker 00

  in the English language. It has remained that way for me. I mean, I like a lot of other words as well, but remember is the, is the one that gives me the most pleasure because of the idea that you were once a member of something, you were once close to another person in their membership. And when you remember them, they, they're no longer gone. They're there, they're there with you. And so that's, that's when I first sort of really fell in love with the word itself. And then when the, we were discussing the title for the book, you know, it was like, you gotta remember, it's gotta be in there somewhere. And it's about Karen. So, you know, it became, My Brother Remembers, but it's... In reading, you learn the value of the word to me.

• 10:33Speaker 00

  And hopefully to another group of people who will read it and say, "Yeah, I feel that."

• 10:38Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yes.

• 10:38Speaker 00

  Because once that starts, it's like channeling almost. You take one step into it, the first sentence, the first word, and you're suddenly, you've broken through every time barrier in the world. You've pulled people out of the grave. You've embraced them again, and it's a wonderful thing.

• 10:55Jamie Kern Lima?

  What you just said about "remember," like, just sent chills through my whole body. Because to break down the word, and I think for so many people listening right now, they're gonna have a big aha moment over this, right? Because they have loved ones they've lost and still love. And for you to say, "remember," you were a member with them. You were in membership with them. And by remembering, it's almost like you reignite that what's already there, but that connection, that aliveness, that in membership with them.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:31Jamie Kern Lima?

  When did that happen for you, like, in a way you were able to feel with your sister?

• 11:38Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 11:39Jamie Kern Lima?

  And can you tell me about Karen?

• 11:41Speaker 00

  Sure. For a long time, it was very hard for me to think about Karen. And, uh, but I was excavating, um, the tragedy. You know, I was unearthing that a lot of the time. When I would reflect on her, I would reflect on what she suffered and what took place in her life and the people who were responsible. And there were so many other things that sort of echoed through my mind that were not, um, that were not honorific, that didn't, uh, celebrate her, that just sort of mourned her. And I was sort of lost in a kind of a loop of mourning. It was not, uh, it wasn't healthy.

• 12:24Speaker 00

  It was, it was, but it was what I had to do. I mean, it's not that it was unhealthy, it was just, it's what I was given at the time. And, you know, I always, I always loved the Book of Matthew. You know, "do it as given unto you." That's, uh, I was, I was stuck in that. And, uh, it took me this book to actually find my way out into saying, "Oh, God, I'm so happy I knew you."

• 12:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was a really, it was a great moment to understand in the writing of it that I was gonna have this chance to be with my sister again and to hold her and to love her and to hold her hand and laugh at things together again. It was a really extraordinary thing. It was a great, great life we had together, which is why it was so tragic to me. It was so hard for me for a long time to wrestle out of that. And I really didn't do it for a long time. And I think the message that came through was Karen saying, "It's time. You need to remember and live your life."

• 13:36Jamie Kern Lima?

  Will you tell me more about that? Like about its impact on you when you chose to write this?

• 13:42Speaker 00

  Well, I feel a lot lighter. I did actually get to drop a lot of grief. Grief is a heavy weight that you have to continue to carry. It's very hard. And you suffer with this idea that, oh, by letting go of the grief, you're somehow letting go of them. But I learned through this book that that isn't the case. By hanging on to the things that are good, actually, I'm closer to her as I was when I was with her, when she was with us. And so she is with us again. That's the key. So it's been great. And she's with my family now. I'm with Kate. And Kate dealt with me writing this for two and a half years.

• 14:24Speaker 00

  And when I finally turned to Kate, and this always chokes me up a little bit, but I'm getting more used to saying it. She's such an extraordinary woman. When I said, "I finished it." I turned and said, "It's done." And she said, "I've missed you."

• 14:47Speaker 00

  Thanks babe.

• 14:50Speaker 00

  So I do this all the time. I do this with my kids. They all go like, oh, here he goes again. But it's a it's a very rewarding life to care this much about things.

• 15:04Speaker 00

  So it's okay.

• 15:07Jamie Kern Lima?

  Tell me about about your wife.

• 15:12Speaker 00

  Well, Kate and I met in what is one of the great fantasy meetings of all time. I mean, almost every guy I meet says, wow, you lived the dream.

• 15:23Speaker 00

  We met on a flight to London. She was working for Virgin Atlantic and she was part of the cabin crew. She looked good in red.

• 15:32Speaker 00

  We struck up a nice conversation and I was at a very I was at a very big crossroads in my life. I knew my life was changing. I'd gotten this. I'd just finished doing this show called Hank, which was and we always say this now, this is for the next book. This is the story, stuff like this for the next book. But so I'd finished filming this show called Hank, which was a terrible show. It wasn't funny. It was supposed to be funny. It was just ghastly. And I had actually called Peter over at Warner Brothers. I said, Peter, we got to put a bullet in this thing. I mean, we have to kill this show. He said, I can't. I can't kill it. It's a we've got obligations to foreign sales and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I thought, please, please.

• 16:17Speaker 00

  And sure enough, the next day, Steve from ABC called and said, I'm putting a bullet in this show. I got it's got to go. I was like, thank God. And 35 minutes later, I got a call from Barry Weissler in New York City saying, I got this show, we're going to bring it over to Broadway. I want you to be in it. Fly to London. Can you get on a plane in a couple of days and go see it? And we'll talk about you doing it there. And that was it. And I knew my life. I knew my life was changing. I thought it's changing. And then I met Kate. And recently we went to

• 16:54Speaker 00

  It was one of the, there were just an invited screening of a couple of the Chosen series and we saw our friends there and a guy walks up to me and says, "Hey, you remember me?" And I was, you know, loath to say no because I don't like to hurt anybody's feelings, but I did not really remember him. But then he said, "I was on that flight when you and Kate met."

• 17:17Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  I started thinking, I remember sort of chatting a bit with some guys like, you know, by the bar. Kate was in and out a bit, she was doing her job, but he told me that I said to him, "I think I'm gonna marry that girl."

• 17:32Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 17:35Speaker 00

  I didn't really remember saying that to him, but it did make sense to me. I remember thinking it at one point.

• 17:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 17:40Speaker 00

  So maybe that's what happened. So I got to London and we, these are all off-glides, but they're fun. I was staying at the Mandarin Oriental and it used to be the Hyde Park Hotel, I think. Maybe I shouldn't mention anything else, except there was, I walked in, I stopped at the concierge, the concierge said, "Hello, oh hello, Mr. Grandma." And there was a girl who, like, she was like 10 feet tall and with a Russian accent. I thought, "Whoa!" And he looked at me and she walked away and he said, "Anything at all you need, Mr. Grandma, anything." Oh, that's what he's saying. Okay, well, thank you, thank you nonetheless. And then

• 18:25Speaker 00

  Kate and I connected by phone and decided we would meet for a drink and I said, "Well, let's have a drink in the, in the bar at the hotel." And as I walked downstairs that, at the appointed hour, I looked in and I saw a bunch of the same kind of people and I thought, "That is not the place to take a girl on a first date."

• 18:46Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 18:47Speaker 00

  So I walked out on the street and I stood in the Little Meridian, right opposite Harvey Nichols, and she came up out of the tube stop and I saw her reapply her lipstick and I sort of smiled and then she looked up and saw me looking at her and we took a walk. I said, "Let's go take a walk and I gotta go in there for a drink." And so we went to, toward Hyde Park. It was close to Christmas, so Winter Wonderland was up and running. And so I saw all the lights, it was a little cool, and then snowflakes started to fall and I thought... Pretty perfect. And we shared a kiss 20 minutes later.

• 19:23Jamie Kern Lima?

  Like a fairy tale.

• 19:24Speaker 00

  It was.

• 19:25Jamie Kern Lima?

  When you said a few minutes ago that you told her the book is finished.

• 19:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:32Jamie Kern Lima?

  And she said, I missed you. What did that mean to you? We need to pause for a super brief break. And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire. Because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter, and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected, and more worthy.

• 20:02Speaker 02

  I am so excited for this book. You know why? Because it's going to save so many. It's going to save people. Worthy, your new beautiful book, Worthy. Get this book. This book? I'm telling you, it's a book that can change anybody's life who picks it up. Anybody who's ever felt that they were not good enough, didn't measure up, something's missing in your life. I have to tell you. It's powerful. It's happening. It's worthy.

• 20:33Speaker 03

  Imagine, what would you do if you fully believed in you? I went from struggling waitress facing nonstop rejection to founder of IT Cosmetics, a billion dollar company, by learning how to overcome self doubt and believe I am worthy of my hopes and dreams. And I'm sharing how you can too in my new book, Worthy, How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life. If you're ready to truly trust yourself and break through that barrier of self doubt and know that where you come from, or even where you are right now, doesn't determine where you're going, then Worthy is for you.

• 21:17Speaker 03

  It's time to go from doubting you're enough to knowing you're enough. It's time to step into all of who you are and into the person you were born to be. And it's time to believe that you are worthy of it. Because in life, we don't become what we want. We become what we believe we're worthy of.

• 21:39Speaker 03

  Join the Worthy Movement today by grabbing your copy of Worthy anywhere books are sold, and head to worthybook.com now for free gifts, including my five-part course on Becoming Unstoppable and my 95-page Worthy Workbook Action Plan that teaches you how to implement the tools from the book into your real life right now.

• 22:03Speaker 00

  Worthy is groundbreaking.

• 22:04Speaker 06

  Yo. Oh, my God. Worthy, you are worthy.

• 22:07Speaker 05

  It's going to change lives.

• 22:09Speaker 06

  This book literally will teach you how to actually feel worthy so that you can have the strength, you can have the confidence.

• 22:15Speaker 00

  The lessons in this book and the strategies will change your life. You will never be the same again after you read this book.

• 22:22Speaker 04

  Jamie's book, Worthy, is a must-read. It is going to inspire you, empower you, give you the hope that you need and the kick in the rear end that you deserve. Jamie's book, Worthy, is incredible.

• 22:35Speaker 03

  The gifts are going away, but they're all free right now on worthybook.com. And now, more of this incredible conversation together.

• 22:43Jamie Kern Lima?

  When you said a few minutes ago that you told her the book is finished.

• 22:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:51Jamie Kern Lima?

  And she said, "I missed you," what did that mean to you?

• 22:57Speaker 00

  Well, what it meant was that she was along for the ride, that she'd been there all that time, that she was... No, I'm not going to say she's perfect on this, because there were moments when she'd say, "You know what? I could use a little attention over here, please. Thank you." But she was willing to let me take the ride. She was willing to let me fall into the grief, as I did a few times, and re-experience the loss and go so deep into a sort of a... Because the grief was revivified, too. You know what I mean?

• 23:32Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yes.

• 23:33Speaker 00

  I went back in time, back in moments, back in moments of my childhood that I hadn't remembered for a long time, and I was fully in them. So she was missing me during that time, but willing to accept that and allow me to take the journey. And that's what... That's what was remarkable.

• 23:51Jamie Kern Lima?

  Kate's over here.

• 23:53Speaker 00

  I was gonna check to see if you hear that.

• 23:57Jamie Kern Lima?

  When I was sharing this with you when we were walking here to the set, but as a reader, was I felt like I was right there with you through the book. And this is so different than how most books are written. And for the person who's listening right now, watching us right now, who maybe has, you know, dealt with the loss of someone they love, or they're maybe just, you know, having a new focus on, wow, I want to remember people that maybe I've loved and have lost, or that are still in my life. And you take us through this journey. And it's so intimate, and it's so powerful, and it's so purposeful.

• 24:41Jamie Kern Lima?

  But then also, you're telling us how you're feeling in the moment as you're writing it. Like, you're almost like we're going through this journey of remembering with you. And so we're part of the remembering, and we're seeing how we can remember. And you're giving us an example of how we can remember in our own lives. But then we're also feeling what, we're experiencing what you're feeling as you write it. And can you share a little bit of insight? Because there's gonna be a lot of people watching, listening that go, oh, my gosh, I want to, I want to remember. I want to remember. I want to, I want to remember with that person. I want to do that. Like, Kelsey, like, how do I do that?

• 25:26Jamie Kern Lima?

  What did that look like for you as you went through this? How did you know it was time to do that? And how did you know, or did you, it would be worth it? Or that you needed to? And how did you figure out how to?

• 25:45Speaker 00

  I didn't know how I was gonna do it when I started. But I did have this sense that as it became a book, as it became, in the first couple of days of doing writing, I wrote like, the first day I wrote, I wrote about just a page and a half. And I realized then, I thought, oh, I think this is a book. This is a, this is a real book. And then I thought that I, I had to take people with me, that they had to be invited along for the ride. And, and that my obligation to them was to point the way back to things that I had known and learned, and that would hopefully agitate their imagination enough to say, oh, yeah, I've lived that way. I've had that moment. So that we were on the trip together.

• 26:30Speaker 00

  So we were, instead of, you know, holding just Karen's hand, I was holding the reader's hand. I mean, at one point in the book, I even write, you know, a letter to the reader. With the, with the sort of, the understanding that they might actually not wanna finish the journey. I thought, but, you know, you, so far, this is where we've gone. I, I hope you're with me still. If you, if you wanna put the book down now, that's okay. But I said, we have some things to do still. I have some places I have to go. And I have you now. I have you with me. And so I, it was a very direct address kinda thing. And I, I mean, I did, there's a conceit about Henry Fielding, who wrote Tom Jones. When I read Tom Jones, I was 18 years old. I was riding the subway all the time, and I was laughing out loud at it.

• 27:15Speaker 00

  And I thought, my, what a wonderful gift from 200 years previous, from this guy, who had the arrogance, or the, just the confidence to say, this is probably the best book you'll ever read in your life. He says it right there, right out. And I thought, that's what I wanna have. I wanna establish that kind of a, a relationship with whoever might be reading a book at the time, and say, it's us together. I mean, I know you're there, and I'm with you, you're with me, let's go, let's go do this. And that, that arrived, I don't know, 60, 70 pages into the book, when I suddenly thought, okay, I gotta explain this about Henry Fielding. So he's in there. And I said, you can blame him if you want to.

• 27:55Speaker 00

  It was a nice device, but it also, it sort of, it got rid of the idea that there was any distance between us, between my telling of the story and the reader. And it will always be in an immediate sense. The time collapses into the book and there is no time in it. There is no chronology, but there is the sort of, whatever. You bounce from one place to the next like, like, like, like, life is just a bauble. You know, you can just say, "I'm going from here to there. I'm going from here, I'm going to South America right now. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back to Southern California." And you just take them with you.

• 28:29Jamie Kern Lima?

  Which can be how remembering is.

• 28:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think it is, yeah.

• 28:32Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah.

• 28:33Speaker 00

  So it's, it's, it's a reflected, sort of word puzzle, I guess, that, that sort of indicates where my brain's been.

• 28:40Jamie Kern Lima?

  Can you share with everyone, Esther? And how Karen came through? And I get so many messages and DMs from people saying, you know, "What about a plant medicine journey? What about this? Like, just all the..." And I think what I've learned, I knew this already, but I know this even more powerfully through doing this show, is that when, I feel like when each of us, like, share our stories, that it helps everyone feel less alone and more enough. And they just kind of, I think, revel in that. I think we need that now more than ever, that connection. But for you, can you talk about, through the story of Esther, how Karen, how Karen, like, how this all started?

• 29:23Jamie Kern Lima?

  Because there are gonna be people at home going, "Wait, can I get Esther's number?" Like, what do I?

• 29:27Speaker 00

  Esther's pretty gifted. I've known a few gifted people. This was, I mean, I produced a show called Medium. And I guess, that, that was part of it. I was always kind of in that community a little bit. And I found out, of course, everybody who's a medium actually wants a television show. So it was like, a lot of people contacted me for a while.

• 29:45Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah.

• 29:46Speaker 00

  And you do find out that some are really gifted. Some are, you know, okay, yeah, maybe they're getting hits. Maybe they are accurate some of the time. But if you've got somebody who's, who doesn't know you, who's accurate about your life 70% of the time, pulls names out of the air. Eh, you may as well pay attention. Whatever your point is, or whatever jaundiced view you may have of the whole mediumship issue, because Greg Laurie is a pal of mine, and he's not particularly happy about being not necessarily being sort of on the evangelical scale. He's sort of more toward conservative, and they're not so crazy about this idea of channeling. However, I always think to myself, well, isn't Ecclesiastes, not Ecclesiastes, but Revelation, isn't that a channeled book?

• 30:31Speaker 00

  I mean, didn't John sit there and didn't Jesus come and visit him and talk to him? And so there are examples in the Bible, but I suppose they just want you to deal with the fact that they're in the Bible, not necessarily in your life. And I think that may distance a lot of people from the revelation that takes place every day in our lives on this planet today. I think that revelation is unfolding, and it comes to all of us, you know, if we have the good fortune to be hoping at the moment.

• 31:01Jamie Kern Lima?

  Will you explain what you mean by that?

• 31:04Speaker 00

  Well, the unfolding, you have a relationship with God if you have one and you're listening. You know, you don't need to doubt it. It's really there. You know, and we will, you know, we'll mess with ourselves a lot because we've been told we should. We've been told we shouldn't have faith in faith, but nonetheless, it still keeps coming up. There's a great story about Barabbas, one of the guys who, when the people of Jerusalem said, "Give us Barabbas instead of Jesus." The pilot said, "You can have this guy, or you can let Jesus, you can let Jesus go, you can take this guy, he'll die instead." And they said, "Give us Barabbas instead," and basically sort of sealing Jesus's death.

• 31:48Speaker 00

  And there was a great movie, Anthony Quinn did it, and somewhere in the middle of it, I saw it, God, when I was 10, something like that, he's having a terrible life, but all he can think about is Jesus. And then somebody says to him, "Well, if all you're doing is thinking about him, isn't that, isn't that some indication that it might be real?" And so he became one of his ardent followers, his first devoted followers, Barabbas. Anyway, I've gone off path a little bit.

• 32:27Speaker 00

  Aster.

• 32:31Speaker 00

  Journeys, plant medicine. I think my plant medicine is actually writing. I didn't realize it at the time, but it just takes me in deep grave, sort of like I'm in some sort of an altered state. And it's been extraordinary. And in those moments, that's when the book was most alive, you know, and it would come to me. There are scenes I mentioned in the book where I was just sort of contemplating and sitting in a dark room and I felt surrounded by hundreds of voices, people who were gone and still present in my life, some of them. But they were as clear as a bell, you know, saying, "You don't need to suffer so much. You've done enough. You've done enough of that."

• 33:16Speaker 00

  And those were wonderful moments. So Esther came into my life through a friend who knew that I was, you know, a person on the path, sort of trying to figure out what we all mean while we're here and all that stuff.

• 33:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:33Speaker 00

  He said, and he's not really an active friend of mine. He was just a guy that I'd met a couple of times, who said, "You need to talk to this gal Esther. She's amazing. And if you do, if you do, if you do like a Zoom meeting with her, she can sort of read what's going on with your body, health-wise and stuff. She'll say, you know, "Oh, you need to have a look at that part of your stomach" or something, whatever. But that wasn't our relationship, that wasn't the way I encountered her. We had a phone conversation. And I described it in the book a little bit, but it was very funny for me because I'm a little bit, I look at this with slightly skeptical energy. So she's from South America. She's got a bit of an accent.

• 34:17Speaker 00

  And Esther said, "All right, give me a minute." "Okay. Are you relaxed?" Yeah. I'm sort of lying on the floor in one of our bedrooms in Palm Springs. And she said...

• 34:36Speaker 00

  Okay. And I hear a little rattle, some shaking of sticks. And I thought, oh, boy, here we go. And then it was just a couple of minutes later, she said, oh, your sister wants you to tell her story.

• 34:55Jamie Kern Lima?

  Hmm.

• 34:58Speaker 00

  Okay. Yes, Karen, Karen wants you to tell her story.

• 35:05Speaker 00

  So that was kind of it, really. And I have a picture of it in the book, the notepad I was writing. It's just, it's an envelope turned sideways. It was the back of the envelope where I just was jotting down what she was saying. And if you tell her story, tell Karen's story on it. So there's a picture of that in the book.

• 35:22Jamie Kern Lima?

  What did that feel like when she said that? And did you believe her?

• 35:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Now, I've had, I've had several meetings, of course. Like I said, I produced a show who said there was, you know, that Karen came through. And, yeah, I believed it. At least half the time, I believed that they were having some sort of connection because I know she's with me. So if they have a gift, then they're seeing her, hearing her, you know? I'm not so good at doing that. But through the, through the writing, I sort of felt like I was closer to her that way and understood that she's been there, right there.

• 35:53Jamie Kern Lima?

  Right there. When you talk about, you know, all of these people that have passed or that are living, that are in your life, and you're in like a dark room and you're hearing all the voices, is that when you write only?

• 36:06Speaker 00

  No, no, that was just, that was a meditative moment. That was just, I wrote about it a couple of days later.

• 36:12Jamie Kern Lima?

  Wow.

• 36:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. It was just logged.

• 36:15Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah.

• 36:15Speaker 00

  Filed away.

• 36:16Jamie Kern Lima?

  And was it just like you were in meditation or prayer? And it just came?

• 36:20Speaker 00

  It's sort of like prayer. Well, the same kind of thing happened a few weeks before.

• 36:26Speaker 00

  I'm trying to put it right, timing wise, but I think I do. A few weeks before, I just had one of those moments where I thought, "I want to do something worthwhile, something important." And I just sort of gave up and said, you know, "Help me out here." And the very next day, the script came to the door for Jesus Revolution, which was one of the great successes of my life. I loved playing that role. I called my agent an hour and a half later after reading the script and said, "I'm doing this." So, you know, these things happen.

• 37:00Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah, like you said earlier, when you open yourself to them.

• 37:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:05Jamie Kern Lima?

  Right? Yeah, it's so interesting, Kelsey. I, in my life, I believe our life is divinely orchestrated. I think we have choice, I think all of that. I find that when I talk about my faith, or talk openly on the show, for example, about my faith, what's so tricky is that everyone's at different places in their life. So, some people write in and say they're mad I'm talking about God.

• 37:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:36Jamie Kern Lima?

  Someone else will write in and say, "You didn't talk about God correctly." And I'm like, right? All these things.

• 37:42Speaker 00

  That's been going on for a long time.

• 37:44Jamie Kern Lima?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 37:44Speaker 00

  That's why we have all these different religions.

• 37:46Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yes, and even inside the same one. And it's interesting because of what you shared earlier. You know, sometimes people are in different ranges of their belief and faith, or they don't want to hear about a medium, or this or that. And I always, I just feel like it will not be until we are, you know, in part of our eternal life that we even understand all the things. I feel like humans can try to judge. I have one of my best friends that doesn't like crystals. I love crystals. I'm like, first of all, God created them. That's the first thing. And I'm so open to all of that. I felt like when I wrote, I've written two books, and I felt, I just felt like I didn't write them.

• 38:31Jamie Kern Lima?

  I felt like they came through me. And it's like a hard thing to explain, but I love that you share. The pro- like the process of, of writing this book. Not only because so many people that are gonna read it, they're gonna pick up Karen, um, the book Karen, uh, may wanna write their own book, or they may wanna actually just start writing their own story, or a loved one's story, or they may wanna remember through writing.

• 38:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:57Jamie Kern Lima?

  Um, and maybe they never share it with anyone else, but it's their own kinda private process of doing that. Um, how do you know? How, how, how do you know for sure that Karen is with you? And has been with you through this process of the book?

• 39:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, um.

• 39:23Speaker 00

  I guess I just know, but

• 39:28Speaker 00

  years ago, people would say to me things like, you know, "Well, she's here, you know. She's here."

• 39:32Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah.

• 39:32Speaker 00

  And I, I'd sort of, you know, get skeptical or whatever. But then it became overwhelming, like clear that Karen and I hadn't like left each other. We stayed together.

• 39:44Jamie Kern Lima?

  Hmm.

• 39:47Speaker 00

  And I, almost, almost, from the moment she was gone, I, or the moment she was killed, um, I sensed that I was living with her. Like she was along for the ride, always there. Um, I know she was with my mom sometimes. Um.

• 40:08Speaker 00

  One guy I was meeting a while back said, said something to me, he said, "Oh, you know, did one of those things." And then he said, "Yeah." And she, he said, "She's sorry she didn't realize that the grief would be so, so hard." It's interesting. Yeah. So I've had reminders from a lot of people, but you get your own taste for this stuff. Yeah, Karen's real, she's there. It happens. She has come, and she's spoken to Kate a few, I think a few times. Um, I'm not gonna pull her in too much on that.

• 40:40Jamie Kern Lima?

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:43Speaker 00

  She's been available because she's, I think she's always had, she's been really attracted to life, you know, really like a flame, you know, it's like you want to be near life, you want to be near love. It's like my version of heaven is, I can't imagine God would take us to a place where we would not remember our love, or where suddenly we don't get to be with our loved ones, or, "Oh, you guys are done, you'll never see each other again." That's nonsense.

• 41:08Jamie Kern Lima?

  You know, one of my friends, Erwin McManus, who's a pastor, he was giving this keynote speech right before me at an event, and his whole keynote was on quantum entanglement. And I'm thinking, "What is quantum entanglement?" But I'm listening to the whole thing. And he said something so powerful. He said that he believes that because we grieve, and because we feel so deeply for people we've loved and lost, that once they're gone, you know, they're gone in physical form, that he believes it's proof of eternal life, the fact that we still feel so deeply. And he talks about like resonance between souls, and how it's

• 41:52Jamie Kern Lima?

  proof that their soul, and that there's eternal life, based on how strong we feel for somebody. And if that person just disappeared, that we wouldn't feel that connection, or that sense of "they're here," or "they're with me," or "they're, you know, showing me a sign," or "giving me a nudge," or "speaking to me," or "speaking to my wife," or any of those things. And it was so profound, the way he explained it. He explained it far more eloquently than I just did. But he explained it, and I had never thought of it that way.

• 42:23Speaker 00

  That's pretty good, yeah.

• 42:24Jamie Kern Lima?

  Right? That we're so deeply connected emotionally and in other ways, that the essence of their essence and our essence, he explained, have like united, as you would say, we're in membership with. And, and how it's proof that even if they are not here in physical form, that, that, that their soul is still there, and that there's eternal, eternal life.

• 42:47Speaker 00

  We had a great moment when Kate and I were having a fight when we were in our early, our first year together, basically.

• 42:54Speaker 00

  Living at my mom's old house. We'd had a bit of a tussle. And climbed into bed, kind of mad with each other. And thought, you know. And I heard this huge bang in the living room. And I thought, what the heck? So I reached out of the bed and I grabbed a golf club. So I kept there for that reason. And Kate said she was gonna go, she'll go check it out. You know, I got this. I said, no, don't get a hold of yourself. Don't, don't get carried away. She said, I'll take this one. So I opened the door and I went out of the living room. Kate went back to bed. I walked in, the TV was on. And I thought, well, no, I turned that off. So it's weird. Looked around a little bit.

• 43:36Speaker 00

  Turned it off and thought, thanks, Mom. You know, don't go to bed angry with each other. Okay. So I went into the room and then Kate said, what did your mom smell like? She said, smelled flowers. It was really something, really something. And I thought, well, this is real. This is, this is not, you know, some, some heretical thing going on. It's like, and you mentioned that people, you know, object to discussing faith or, or not discussing it enough. I'm not a proselytizer. I don't try to convince people they should think the way I think or see God the way I see God

• 44:17Speaker 00

  or, or experience this universe the way I, I experience it. But I will not deny my faith. I will not say, you know, to make someone else comfortable to say, oh, no, I don't believe any of that. I'm not gonna try to force you to think the way I think or feel what I feel. But I'm not gonna deny it. So I have this relationship with Jesus, with God. It's a, it's a, it's an open conduit. It just exists. And I did question it for a long time. So, believe me, I fought my way to get here. And realized after all this time. Oh, you were always there? Oh. What was wrong with me? Well, there was nothing wrong with me, just I wasn't ready to listen.

• 45:02Speaker 00

  It's okay.

• 45:04Jamie Kern Lima?

  With, I think so many people are in this point in their own faith journey. I have so many friends this way. I dealt with, I mean, I was raised going to church and then I spent probably, I don't know, a couple of decades just sort of like inside myself doubting God exists. And I remember I was in graduate school in New York City and around so many people that don't have faith at all or think that if you do believe in God, you're just not that smart. And I was around that all the time and also around a lot of different faiths. And I started to sort of question, hmm, like, you know, and I remember going through God doubt. And I, and I went to, this is years later, I went to my first ever therapist about something completely different

• 45:49Jamie Kern Lima?

  and was telling her, I doubt God exists and I'm doubting God exists. And she said to me, well, what makes you think he can't handle your doubt? And I'm like, what do you mean? And she's like, well, if he, and I don't even know if she believes at all, by the way. She said, if he created the entire universe, like what makes you think he can't handle your doubt? She goes, why don't you try praying and telling him you doubt he exists and to prove you wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt that he does? And I'm like, okay. And so, and so this went on for a couple of years, but like I would, I would, if I was like praying for a friend's health or something like that, I would end the prayer and I'd be like, and by the way, God, I'm doubting you exist. So if you could please show up in my life, right? Prove me wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt, I'd be so grateful. In Jesus's name, amen.

• 46:34Jamie Kern Lima?

  And I did that prayer. Kelsey, like there, like there is zero question in my mind, like the way God started showing up where it was literally screaming in my face. Like there's so many examples of this that have happened and I'm just like, whoa. Like the person that finally gave us a shot on QVC after years of my business struggling and us getting no's. Later I thanked her, I was like, you loved our product, thank you. And this was years later, this was after we had become their biggest brand. And she says, she was a show host there for 17 years. And she says, no, no, no, I gave you a shot because God told me, go up and help that girl. Like it was just like one thing after another after and it's just like whoa. So that so for anyone listening right now, no matter where you are in your journey like

• 47:19Jamie Kern Lima?

  that for me was something that was really powerful to do is just to like call it like you see it like God, I am doubting you exist. So can you please show up like prove me wrong, but be on a shadow of a doubt because I don't want like a hint like just like be on a shadow of doubt. So for you, when you just shared that, I just know that so many people listening are gonna relate to that. And you know, you share openly in your book Karen, that everyone needs to go grab their copy of right now. You share about a lot of different hardships you've gone through and a lot of different struggles and a lot of different times you veered off course and a lot of different just, you know, journeys in your life. And I love so much that you share that because there's also so many people, just as it pertains

• 48:04Jamie Kern Lima?

  to faith, there's so many people that think like, oh, you know, I'm imperfect, therefore I'm disqualified from praying, or I'm disqualified from asking for anything, or I'm disqualified from a relationship with God, or they've met people that are so judgmental that they feel like it's not for them. And so I love that you share so candidly about your life's journey, your whole life's journey. I mean, back to growing up, I mean, back to all of, back to thoughts you had as a little kid, back to, you know, all the things. And so

• 48:43Jamie Kern Lima?

  for you, when, when, and you say that you, you weren't, you didn't always have strong faith, what was it for you that was like, oh, God is real and I know that for sure? We need to pause for a super brief break. And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know, who this could inspire, because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter, and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected and more worthy.

• 49:20Jamie Kern Lima?

  Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you.

• 50:01Jamie Kern Lima?

  If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show notes. Do you struggle with negative self-talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful. And when you learn to take control over your self-talk, it's life-changing.

• 50:43Jamie Kern Lima?

  And I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your life. It's called Five Ways to Overcome Negative Self-Talk and Build Self-Love. And it's a free how-to guide to overcome that negative self-talk, to build confidence and develop unshakable self-love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals. Don't let self-sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script of your life, one filled with self-love, resilience and unwavering belief.

• 51:22Jamie Kern Lima?

  If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams, you can grab your free guide to Stop Overthinking and Learn to Trust Yourself at jamiekernlima.com/resources, or click the link in the show notes below.

• 51:42Speaker 03

  And now, more of this incredible conversation together.

• 51:46Jamie Kern Lima?

  For you, when, and you say that you weren't, you didn't always have strong faith. What was it for you that was like, "Oh, God is real, and I know that for sure"?

• 52:03Speaker 00

  Well, there were a few things along the way that came by. You know, I had a reading with one of these people that does this sort of thing.

• 52:13Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah.

• 52:13Speaker 00

  And I was doubting, you know, how did I get to this place? And it just came out. It said, "Do you think you could have done this without, if God didn't love you"? I was like, "Oh, maybe. Maybe not." So that was a great, sort of just frank reminder that, you know, that this has been a long for the ride the whole time. You know, some other medium years ago, the clairvoyant, whatever you want to call them, when I was a very young man, said, "Oh, you're a sun worshipper." Well, I was, actually. I mean, I believe that when I went to, when I went to New York City for the first time, knowing that I was going to never leave there again.

• 52:55Speaker 00

  I mean, that I was in for the long haul, having come from Florida and surfing. And I was going to go try to be an actor. I was 18, and I just got this message, just swallow the sun. Swallow the sun. Have it shine within you for your whole life. "Oh, that'll help. Yeah, okay. That's a good idea." So, wherever that came from. So that was, and that reminded me, "Oh, yeah, I am sort of a sun worshipper." That light, that golden light that exists in us and outside of us at all times is one of those gifts, you know, that just says...

• 53:34Jamie Kern Lima?

  I'm right over here. Do you believe, I struggle with this idea I'm about to ask you about because you know, when I look at, for example, you know, I was a Denny's waitress, which I just learned, you're a Denny's dishwasher. Okay, if you're listening to the show right now, you've got a Denny's waitress, a Denny's dishwasher, we're making magic together. God bless the folks at Denny's, the good people of Denny's. I love Denny's. So they, so I love them so much. I just was on Shark Tank as a guest shark this season and they, their profile piece they showed me as a waitress at Denny's, Denny's reached out and they're sending me merch, which I'm so excited about. I have to tell you, it's like one of the most exciting things for me, but I actually go and celebrate

• 54:19Jamie Kern Lima?

  at Denny's to this day. Yeah. When, when I did Oprah show for the first time, I went to Denny's to celebrate, brought my daughter, showed her the menu. Oh, I like their pancakes, like whatever time of day it is. I always loved the patty melt. Yeah, that was your patty melt? And hot fudge sundaes. And hot fudge sundaes. Their menu, although it's pretty expansive now, when, when I was working there, it wasn't quite this large. They have a lot of, a lot of fun stuff. My daughter was excited about moons over my hammy. She's like, she thought that was funny. So, so anyhow, I mean, you know, when I launched this business in my living room, I mean, we worked hundred hour weeks for a decade and then I look at the outcome of what happened

• 55:01Jamie Kern Lima?

  and I'm just like, whoa. And, you know, I come, you know, I was adopted, my family that raised me is amazing, multiple families, but my parents worked so hard. They worked just as hard as me and did not have the outcome, not even close. And I wonder with you, when you look at your career so far, so far, still going, still going strong, excited to watch you play Beast coming up, in the Avengers, Doomsday. But when you look at your career and there's probably moments where you think about like, huh, okay, everyone's freaking out that I'm the highest paid actor in all of Hollywood, or huh. That was a brief freak out. This is when my sixth Emmy or, I mean, on and on and on and on. Do you?

• 55:47Jamie Kern Lima?

  Do you ever go how, I mean, of course, you've worked so hard. Of course, you have talent, of course, all the things. And also, there's a lot of people that work really, really hard, and there's people with talent. So, do you think that's God? What do you think it is that, that you have, have experienced so much success in, in so many different areas in your life?

• 56:11Speaker 00

  My wife has a saying, she says, "Always declare God your partner." And I like that idea a lot. Whether I consciously did that in my previous, you know, lifetimes, I don't know, but I think there is an alignment that occurs. If you're, if you're, having luck is considered, by W.H. Auden, having luck is considered alignment with providence, meaning God. And I like that idea. But if you have the, the, the wherewithal, the time, the, the good fortune to hear what your calling is, what your mission is, because it comes up a lot.

• 56:55Speaker 00

  All of a sudden, somebody's saying, "You know, I want you to, I want you to do a play for me." That's what happened to me. They said, "I think you'd be good in this role." And suddenly, I'm standing there thinking, "Oh, I'm gonna go be an actor." So, I mean, these things that sort of bookmark our lives, or landmark our lives, are indications of where we can go. And I liked, somebody said recently, I heard somebody saying, like, you know, I guess it's from Robert Frost, "If you see a fork in the road, take it." Oh, no, I think it was Yogi Bear. Yogi Bear, I think he said it. But, "If you see a fork in the road, take it." You have these things that come and hit you on the head, and if you don't hear them, you

• 57:38Speaker 00

  know, it's, there was a moment in my life when I was walking up the street to go move in with a girlfriend who was, it was a bad decision. It was a temporary stopover, let's say, but

• 57:50Jamie Kern Lima?

  Oh, we've all had them.

• 57:51Speaker 00

  It turned out poorly. But, as I walked toward this moment when I'd be moving in,

• 57:59Speaker 00

  I heard more fire engines and more sirens than I'd ever heard in my life. To the point where my dog, who was my greatest friend at the time, was howling uncontrollably. And I kept thinking, oh, wait a minute. I thought of Custodians and you know how the universe attempts to inform your choices. Am I making a mistake? And I shook it up and said, no, that's crazy to think that. But at least it crossed my mind. And I've never, I've never forgotten it as a result. It just was like, everything in the universe was saying, you don't need to do this. But I did it anyway. So sometimes we listen, sometimes we don't.

• 58:39Speaker 00

  If you have the good fortune to hear it in the nick of time and take that course, God is with you. Jesus is with you, whatever. It's like, in the book I turn and all this, after all this time, and I finally just, I just got a, I was in a conversation with Jesus. And I thought, boy, this is really, really interesting. But it's as clear and vivid as anything I've ever done. And yeah, I was like, hey, you don't need to keep carrying this. I've got it. That was the big thing. He said, I got it. What do you mean, I got it? I mean, I'm fine, I can handle it, it's all right. He said, no, this is not for you. That's why I came. You don't need to carry this.

• 59:24Speaker 00

  So I can give it up? It's a good thing.

• 59:31Jamie Kern Lima?

  I think we all need to hear that.

• 59:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:34Jamie Kern Lima?

  I struggle with that all the time. Like I'll pray and ask God to carry something and then I think I still have to carry it.

• 59:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, you know, you're a very, very successful person. You have all those habits of people who are. You know, we do think we're supposed to do it. It's like, we forget how often someone else is doing it for us. And that the burden need not be ours. I heard this a while ago. There was one of those radio guys talking, a sermon on it. I dial in once in a while in the car. I go between news and like, you know, religious channels. The guy said, take my yoke upon, take my yoke upon thee. And I thought, I always thought that meant, oh, I'm supposed to carry something for Jesus. Like I'm supposed to take that yoke and, you know, be responsible for it.

• 1:00:23Speaker 00

  And the guy said, don't you get it? He's saying, We'll do this together. It's a two oxen yoke. It's a double. You know, you got it on you, I've got it on me. Take mine on you and I'll do the pulling. You don't have to. And that's I, I've never heard it put quite that simply, but I, that's, that's exactly what I did here. At that one point, finally.

• 1:00:48Jamie Kern Lima?

  I feel like, um, like living in alignment is, or flow, or it's such a beautiful feeling. And, and, and also like, I feel like our body tells us, or fire engines and dogs tell us when we're out of alignment. And do you feel, um, cause I think this is a really new concept for a lot of people. And they're actually learning to like, huh, what do I actually feel about this? Like what, like, do I feel like I'm in alignment in this job or in this relationship? Or in this, you know, hobby or in this friendship or friendship circle? Like, what is that like? How would you describe to someone listening who wants to tune in more to understanding like, oh yeah. Okay, I'm in alignment.

• 1:01:33Jamie Kern Lima?

  Like this is like, you know, or a flow or, or whatever versus, um, oh, I'm, you know, I'm just hearing fire engines for no reason. Like, how do you, how do you, how do you kind of learn to feel that in your body and then to trust it?

• 1:01:51Speaker 00

  I, I think it's just practice, honestly. I think you just have to acquaint yourself with the possibility that stepping into this universe, which is a causal universe, there is a cause and an effect. You're on some path, there is something else with you. There is an energy that's here. We came to, um, to bask in it, to be part of it, to, to feel it sort of around us all the time. And it is around us all the time. We can close our ears to it, we can close our eyes to it. We can fight it. And all those things are probably the right choice at the time. It's, which is pretty interesting because you discover yourself and then you realize.

• 1:02:30Speaker 00

  Oh, you're still there. Oh, still, still there. Okay, well then. Maybe I should relax about it a little bit. It doesn't mean surrender, I beside, but I don't believe in you to surrender to certain things. I think there is that moment in life when you realize, oh, oh, oh, here it comes. I'm just gonna let this happen, you know, and see what comes next. But mostly, we, we are given authorship, you know, we are entitled to be the author of what we want to do.

• 1:02:59Speaker 00

  We either buck what we've been told, or we buck other people. A lot of people tell us, oh, you'll never make it. That's, that's a gauntlet for me. That's, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, well, just watch this. And, uh, but there, the other still small voice that is always there is if you just take a minute to ask. You know, just Matthew, again, I go back to Matthew, just the first book in the Bible I read that I started to really pay attention to when I was, I was pretty young. But, you know, knocking, she'll be open and unto you. Ask and ye shall receive. Yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty powerful. So all you really have to do is enumerate a question. A desire, a longing, whatever it might be, and, and

• 1:03:41Speaker 00

  the universe, God, will do everything it can to make it happen for you.

• 1:03:46Jamie Kern Lima?

  Hmm, I love what you just said is to ask. And it's so simple, but that's like the step I think most of us skip. We're sitting around waiting, we're waiting for something, but maybe we just need to ask, like, what am I supposed to do in this situation? Or, you know, just ask the question. And then just try to create space to hear the answer.

• 1:04:08Speaker 00

  And seek and ye shall find.

• 1:04:10Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah, yeah. You say that this, that Karen, but Karen, you say this is not a grief book. This is a life book. What is your advice for others looking to, to remember their loved ones well? And also honor their life with joy?

• 1:04:30Speaker 00

  It, it, it's, it's a double edged sword, though, the grief book comment. Because when I first, I, I spoke to the people who represent me.

• 1:04:38Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:38Speaker 00

  I was about 50 pages in.

• 1:04:39Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:40Speaker 00

  And, uh, I said, I'm writing this book about my sister. They made assumptions about it. They said, "Well, a grief book's, you know, maybe a couple, maybe a hundred pages long." And, you know, they're usually sort of little pamphlets. And, "Oh, we do this and that, and then maybe we get a publisher." I thought, "Boy, that is just the most sort of dismissive, unresponsive, irresponsible relationship I've ever been in with an agent." Why would I have someone to represent me who just assumed whatever I was doing was like, could be reduced into something that they would just say, "Well, this is what we do," that kind of thing. So I was a little pissed off about that, honestly. So when I wrote, "This is not a grief book, it's a life book,"

• 1:05:24Speaker 00

  that was my feeling at the time. So I thought, "I better get that down on paper, that's all, that's why it's in there." But it gathered more steam and more value for me as I finished the process and realized that this really was about a life and the life I'm still living and the life that Karen now lives. And that, I mean, it's an extraordinary thing. I mean, Kate had this vision years, a year and a half ago, and she said, "It's really amazing what you're doing. It's like you're putting her in a library." She's gonna be in a library. "Your sister will live forever." That was really great. She said, "It's a great gift you're giving her."

• 1:06:05Speaker 00

  And I realized that I didn't know that at the time, but she's giving me a gift in this writing. But also, there is this, "I want people to know my sister. I want them to know what a great, to know what a great girl she was. And I want her to have what I've had, this amazing gift I've had of approbation and applause and success and, you know, and yeah, and self-torture and all that nonsense." But that's, that was my, you know, that's my own sort of, my wrestling with, you know, the why me thing, the survivor's guilt stuff you'd go through. But I wanted to give her her due. She is due this, she's my success.

• 1:06:48Speaker 00

  Couldn't have been possible if it hadn't been for Karen. Wouldn't have happened. Knowing her, loving her. And then in the remarks that she said, you know, you're gonna do it all. Those were important things. And I wanted to, I did live for her in a lot of ways. So I wanted to, I wanted people to know about her. Just, you know, to celebrate her.

• 1:07:08Jamie Kern Lima?

  Karen will be in libraries.

• 1:07:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:10Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:12Speaker 00

  It's like the first, first time I saw one of these, it's in there, it's in there somewhere that says, it's registered in the Library of Congress. And it has a number and I thought, yeah, good. That's pretty great.

• 1:07:25Jamie Kern Lima?

  That's pretty amazing.

• 1:07:26Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:07:28Jamie Kern Lima?

  I want to call something out, just for everyone listening, because I always believe that famous quote, success leaves clues. And, and just, just two things I want to share, just for everyone listening right now, that pertain to your own life. I love so much you just shared. You know, I asked this question about, oh, you say it's not a, you know, grief book, it's a life book. And, you know, you, you could have shared, yes, it's a life, you did it. But you're like, oh, no, here's actually why I wrote that. Like, somebody tried to put me into a cookie cutter thing. And like, I'm not gonna let that happen, because that's, you know, I'm worthy of more than that. And I want to call this out, because every person listening,

• 1:08:13Jamie Kern Lima?

  all of us have had someone try to, you know, someone who might be some big agent, or in our version of life, might be an in-law, or, or who knows who it is, a boss, whoever. And they'll quickly just put that limitation on us. And it's easy to let that happen, or to just get pissed and not do anything about it, or to kind of like, huh, maybe they're right, or whatever. I love so much that you shared, like, no, that's not, this isn't gonna be a hundred-page cookie cutter grief book. You know, and, and I love that you, that you stand up against that. And the other thing... I just want to share on that and this idea that success leaves clues because you

• 1:08:57Jamie Kern Lima?

  know, I always say this like it's usually, almost always when someone's so successful, it's not an accident, right? It's a lot of things. But when you, when we were getting ready to start the interview, we have like the first copy of your hardcover of Karen in the studio, but you quickly opened up my copy, a pre copy, to check if one error was in that, like a typo. Was that typo in there? And Kelsey, I can't even tell you how many celebrities, they don't even know, they wouldn't even know if there's, or not even celebrities, authors in general, right? There's a lot of people that, you know, they've, they've had the gift of maybe someone else writing the book and that's great. There's

• 1:09:37Jamie Kern Lima?

  nothing wrong with that. But the fact that you knew where the typo was and you're checking in the pre copy, is it there? I watched that and I'm, I had these memories flash back to me about when I was building at cosmetics. I knew, I knew if like on the big fixture in like the Sephora or Ulta, I knew if the wrong graphic got put in and I could see it and I would just be like, okay, I'm in, do I, am I gonna, you know, and just like, just like when you care, when you care. And so watching you sit down and taking your own time to, cause, cause, cause the hardcover's out now, but going back to the, the, the early copy, looking, is that one in this one? I just saw how much you care. And so

• 1:10:22Jamie Kern Lima?

  with this idea too, that success leaves clues, I just think it's worth pointing out because it's really cool, I think for everyone listening and watching who, you know, who maybe has seen your great success, you know, publicly as an actor or as a producer or as a comedian or as all the things that you are, and author, everything else. But to have that kind of insight into like, oh, okay, it's not an accident. You know what I mean? When you see those two things. And I just want to call that out because I think, I think that

• 1:10:59Jamie Kern Lima?

  For people who details really matter. Which sometimes I wish. Oh, my gosh, I know. Sometimes I wish I didn't see them. My, one of my best friends, she was our very first employee at our company. We had over a thousand employees before we sold the business. But she would always, she'd always say to me before like a creative meeting when the creative team would bring in all the campaigns and stuff. She'd be like, do you think they do shots before? Because she knew I was gonna like notice every detail. I'm like, I need to do shots before because honestly, I wish I didn't notice the things. And I wish I didn't care so much because sometimes it's easier not to. But, but when you see your success and then you just notice small things like that. I just want to call them out for everyone at home.

• 1:11:44Jamie Kern Lima?

  Because, you know, for, you know, the person in their real life, whether it's at their job or at their, in their friendship circle or in a relationship or whatever it is, like, you know, if you're a person that really cares about details and someone else maybe gets annoyed by that or doesn't want to, whatever. Like, I just feel like staying convicted of who you are and that gift that you have to see them and to care so much. I mean, I think that's such a, such a blessing to be able to do that. And so anyways, just wanted to share that with everyone at home. And can you talk about Karen visiting you and telling you that you're a water baby?

• 1:12:28Speaker 00

  Oh, that was an Esther, another, another reading with Esther.

• 1:12:35Speaker 00

  That was great. Because that was when, that was when Karen said, remember. Karen actually said the word remember.

• 1:12:47Speaker 00

  And what she wanted me to remember was something so glorious. It was fantastic from our youth that we shared, that she saw. And I'd never seen it. She just told me it was fantastic. But this time I got to see it through her eyes. And that was an amazing regression, basically.

• 1:13:05Speaker 00

  So Esther said, "So you're going down into a cave. There are two children with you." I said, "Oh, there were. Two Chinese kids, it looked like. They were about five and seven years old. And they were either Chinese or Japanese. I mean, I wasn't sure. But I was holding hands with them. And so they're gonna take you into the cave." So we went into the cave. And then she said, "Take a look at them now." And it was Karen and me when we were younger. I said, "Oh, well, how did you guys do that?"

• 1:13:44Speaker 00

  But, and then, so I thought, maybe we're past lives together. But then, as she said, "She's gonna give you something. The girl's gonna give you something." Okay. She handed me a surfboard. Surfboard, surfing was very important to me in my life, really important. And then she said, "Okay, what is it?" And I said, "It's a surfboard." And then I said, "Whoa, whoa, wait, wait. It's changing. It's actually a slalom ski, a slalom water ski." And then suddenly, it was this ski that I got at Sears. I bought myself when I started to water ski. I was, I think, 14, 15. And it took me to that day when we were on the water.

• 1:14:27Speaker 00

  And Karen, and the way I was driving, Karen was sitting there watching. Because somebody always has to look backward at the skier to make sure that they're, you know, okay, still, you know, it hadn't fallen off. And as we went, Karen was going like this to me. "Oh." So in that moment, when I realized what was going on, she showed me what it looked like. I was, I looked like an angel. I was going back and forth across the wake, kicking, you know, 20-foot...

• 1:15:02Speaker 00

  Walls of water up off the ski. And right behind me was the setting sun. So that basically it was just a glowing angel wings of water. You know, and a young boy skipping through life. It's pretty great. And she, she told me, she said, just remember that. So I walked out after the session, I said to my wife, I said, I'm a water angel. I know who I am now. So if I ever buy another boat, I'm naming it that. Oh, when you said, when I said, yeah, there's a specific reason for saying it's not a grief book. I just realized, and I haven't really put this together before. That is the guy I am. You tell me I'm not going to do this and I will do it.

• 1:15:47Speaker 00

  And that's it. So God bless him. Thanks for saying that because he made it so much more. You helped me to make it so much more. And God bless the people who told me you'll never make it as an actor. Cause it's the same response. It was exactly the same response. And I've never quite gotten that until now.

• 1:16:03Jamie Kern Lima?

  Wow. Remember this episode's not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person that you know, because it can change their life too. And if you love today's episode, please click on the follow or subscribe button for the show on the app that you're listening or watching it on. Give it a five star rating or review. And again, please share it with everyone you believe in. Share it with another person in your life who could benefit from it. Maybe they're going through grief too. Post it and share it with others online or in your community who just might need the words and tools and lessons in this episode today. You never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode. And thank you so much for joining me today.

• 1:16:46Jamie Kern Lima?

  Before you go, I want to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You, right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams and all the unconditional love in the world. And it is an honor to welcome you to each and every episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. Here, I hope you'll come as you are. Heal where you need. Blossom what you choose. Journey toward your calling and stay as long as you'd like, because you belong here. You are worthy. You are loved. You are love. I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

• 1:17:32Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh, you know that journey to believe you're actually worthy of something?

• 1:17:37Speaker 03

  Oprah, how have you defied the odds?

• 1:17:40Speaker 02

  Her show is unlike any I've ever done.

• 1:17:44Speaker 04

  A revelation. When you listen, it feels like a hug, but your brain and your spirit and your heart is like, wow.

• 1:17:51Speaker 03

  Imagine overcoming self doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself and know you are enough. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

• 1:18:06Speaker 03

  Imagine stepping into all of who you are and into the person you were born to be. Unstoppable. Hi, I'm Jamie Kern Lima and I went from struggling waitress facing nonstop rejection to building a billion dollar company from my living room. And it's not because I'm smarter than anyone else. I didn't have the right connections, but I figured out how to believe in myself and how to believe my dreams are possible and believe that I'm worthy of them. And what I know for sure is that you are too.

• 1:18:41Speaker 02

  Fresh. Will make you cry, will make you laugh, will make you think, will make you feel.

• 1:18:50Speaker 02

  The greatest life lesson I have ever received. You're not going to forget how you feel after each and every episode.

• 1:18:59Speaker 04

  Jamie Kern Lima is an angel walking on earth.

• 1:19:04Speaker 02

  You hear me? You're going to be given those things that you can apply right now to your life.

• 1:19:22Speaker 02

  So, the moment with the...

• 1:19:27Speaker 02

  I have never talked about this before, but I'm going to talk about it with you.

• 1:19:32Speaker 04

  But your brain and your spirit and your heart is like, wow. Oh my gosh, it's one revelation after another.

• 1:19:42Speaker 02

  But when the most important person in your life sees you and hears you, that is the greatest gift. That is the greatest gift.

• 1:19:53Speaker 04

  Sharing things that they would not discuss with anyone else.

• 1:19:57Speaker 02

  I surrender. I surrender.

• 1:20:00Speaker 04

  We have more tissues right down there.

• 1:20:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, loved. Thank you, Jamie.

• 1:20:10Speaker 05

  So special.

• 1:20:14Speaker 03

  This show is for you if you're ready to ignite that light inside of you and learn to shine it brightly. See, I believe where you come from, or even where you're at right now,

• 1:20:27Speaker 03

  doesn't have to determine where you're going. I know and believe you can go from underestimated to unstoppable. You can go from doubting yourself to trusting yourself, to believing in yourself, and to loving yourself, even if it's for the first time ever, or for the first time in a long time. It's your time. Today is your day, and this is your show. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

• 1:21:00Speaker 03

  So come as you are. Stay as long as you'd like. Heal where you need. Blossom what you choose, because you belong here. You, exactly as you are, are a miracle emotion, a mighty force for good. You are a masterpiece. I see you. I believe in you. I love you. You are worthy. And right now, I have one question for you. What would you do if you fully believed in you? Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

• 1:21:44Speaker 03

  It's such an honor to share this podcast together with you. And please note, I'm not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.