From the Archives: Mick Fleetwood Skates Back into the Charts

Mick Fleetwood is the drummer and a founding member of Fleetwood Mac, one of the most successful rock bands of all time. Fleetwood talks to Alec about how dyslexia led him to drumming, how supportive parents encouraged his talent and his move to London as a teenager, how his friendship with the band’s founder, guitarist Peter Green, evolved into a lifelong friendship, and how Fleetwood Mac balanced the weight of their interpersonal dynamics and the band’s wild, over-the-top success. The band’s 1977 album Rumors broke through the Billboard 100 again in 2020 thanks to a TikTok of a man on a skateboard lip-syncing to Dreams and introduced a whole new generation to Fleetwood Mac’s beautiful, enduring music. Originally aired January 26, 2021 See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  Granger knows if you're a procurement manager at an industrial manufacturing facility, you're balancing inventory and budget while sourcing critical supplies across the operation. Too much inventory, costs climb. Too little, production slows. Granger's $2 billion in on-hand inventory helps you get what you need, when you need it, so you can help keep budgets balanced and lines moving. Call 1-800-GRanger, click Granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 0:43Speaker 03

  911 Nashville returns.

• 0:45Speaker 04

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 0:47Alec Baldwin?

  Three bodies on the ground.

• 0:48Speaker 03

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 0:51Alec Baldwin?

  All sins swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 0:54Speaker 04

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 0:55Alec Baldwin?

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 0:58Speaker 03

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:05Speaker 03

  Hey, I'm Niall Rogers. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, meeting some of today's coolest and most fascinating artists. We'll explore the stories before the moments that changed everything, because every musician remembers the moment where it all began. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:36Speaker 06

  Are you struggling with symptoms of chronic hives with no known external triggers? Living with chronic spontaneous urticaria, or CSU, can be frustrating, especially when symptoms last months or even years. CSU is a long-term condition that often requires ongoing treatment. Rapsodo, remabrutinib, is an oral prescription treatment that's taken twice daily with or without food for adults with CSU who continue to have symptoms not controlled with antihistamines. It should not be used for any other forms of hives. Rapsodo may cause bleeding and risk may increase if also taking a blood thinner. So tell your doctor right away if you have any signs or symptoms. Also discuss immunizations, as you should not receive live or live attenuated vaccines with Rapsodo. Side effects include

• 2:19Speaker 06

  nasal congestion, sore throat, runny nose, bleeding, headache, nausea, and abdominal pain. When antihistamines alone aren't enough, it may be time to ask your doctor about Rapsodo. To learn more, visit rapsodo.com or call 87 Rapsodo. That's 877-427-7436.

• 2:37Speaker 07

  Whether you're buying, renting, or selling, Zillow can help make your someday today to help find a home that fits where you are in life, or that apartment that's a little closer to where you want to be. Zillow has the right information, tools, and support to help turn your future home into a reality, because someday starts today. Visit zillow.com/today to get started.

• 3:09Alec Baldwin?

  I'm Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing from iHeart Radio.

• 3:23Alec Baldwin?

  That is, of course, Dreams by Fleetwood Mac. Thanks to a TikTok of some guy on a skateboard who goes by the name Dogface lip syncing to this song, and his 72 million views, Fleetwood Mac's album Rumors broke through Rolling Stones' Top 100 list again last year, more than 40 years after its release. My guest today is Mick Fleetwood, a founding member of Fleetwood Mac. Fleetwood Mac existed for nearly a decade before the lineup we think of today with Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Lindsey Buckingham, Christine McVie, and Stevie Nicks. But when Fleetwood Mac formed in London in the late 1960s, it was

• 4:08Alec Baldwin?

  Peter Green's idea.

• 4:10Speaker 04

  Well, I would be remiss. Peter Green started Fleetwood Mac, the original guitar player. I was at his right-hand side. John McVie, all of us had played in a band called John Males Bluesbreakers. Eric, Mick Taylor, Peter Green, and I'm saying that because they were, represent great guitar players that came out of that band that have more than made their mark in my world. And so Peter asked me to play drums, and I already had played with him in a funny band with Rod Stewart for a short while, so we won't go into that. So it was really a team of people that Peter, John McVie especially,

• 4:51Speaker 04

  came out of a pedigree which was absolute devotion to an art form, the blues, and really, all our heroes were American blues artists. And you are well aware, I can tell, about the irony of a bunch of funny little white kids in England, really preserving an art form that had long since been, you know, I won't use the bad word, but, you know, pooped on by the Americans, glossing over of something that was so evident. So we were all from that framework. And when we formed Fleetwood Mac, it was all about our lovely,

• 5:30Speaker 04

  semi-innocent way of emulating our heroes. And if you listen to the first few albums that we made, before Peter especially started really writing, like when you look at early Rolling Stones, it's Bo Diddley and Chuck Berry, and with anyone, you see the development into self-expression. And that's what transpired afterward. But the original band was all about that, and a little team of people sharing something and having a lot of fun with it, creatively, that turned into something a little bit more than we ever could have possibly have imagined.

• 6:09Alec Baldwin?

  The year that you formed the band with Green, what year was that?

• 6:13Speaker 04

  1967, Windsor Jazz Festival. And the band was called Fleetwood Mac by Peter Green, who could have very easily become the Jeff Beck, or the Jimmy Page, or the Eric Clapton gunslinger guitar player. That's a whole nother story, is a lovely story and an attribute to Peter's generosity. We played the Windsor Jazz Festival, intending, as you can tell with the name Fleetwood Mac, the name was my name and John McVie, which Peter chose. And John was still playing in John Males Bluesbreakers on the same show, watched the band he's supposed to be in from the side of the stage. And about three months later,

• 6:58Speaker 04

  he joined. He's a Scotsman, so he's very thrifty with whatever amount of money he does have. So when we had enough gigs, he said, I'm ready to join, which was, of course...

• 7:08Alec Baldwin?

  When you've made it worth my while.

• 7:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, when you've made it worth my while.

• 7:12Alec Baldwin?

  I know there'll be no net loss in my income by joining you. I'll meet you there at the club.

• 7:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, and that's what happened.

• 7:19Alec Baldwin?

  And when you say that Green could have been in this pantheon of great guitar players, was it something he didn't want? Did he do not want that level of fame and that level of attention?

• 7:28Speaker 04

  No, it was very evident. And the end story, which of course went into a very changed person. He was my dearest of dearest of friends. And my mentor, he gave me so much encouragement as a player, and super fun person, but unbelievably, deep down, way more sensitive than a bunch of chaps, including himself, had ever realized. And he eventually became sick, and so came to a journey that was, for a while, was a living tragedy for me, selfishly. But then you learn to accept him as he turned out. But back then, everything

• 8:09Speaker 04

  he did was about being just really generous. And I read an article after, you know, you think, well, what was the real story? And a for instance would be that someone asked him, why was the band called Fleetwood Mac? And he said, well, I figured, at that point, I'd broken up with my lovely girlfriend, Jenny, who are later married. And I had played with Peter, and he had his eyes on another drummer, as it turned out. And he said, why did you pick Mick? And of course, my little less-than-self would have thought, well, maybe you thought I was a good drummer, you know? And what it was, he said, I wanted Mick to

• 8:53Speaker 04

  play the drums, because I got so fed up with seeing him so sad, that I thought it would give him something to do. And I thought that was the greatest thing that you could ever hear from a lovely friend. And that really sums it up, about how it was not about him. And he created a platform which served me well. My father was an Air Force chap, so the word to serve, to serve well, that's what I think I learned to do with all of how the madness of this band and the incarnates of just, are you kidding me? If you wrote this down, you say, it's not possible this bunch could possibly have survived with all

• 9:33Speaker 04

  of the ups and downs and character changes and changing the script as you go along, and yet there's still a story. Peter started that and handed that to me, I think, when he welcomed everyone, including me, Danny Kerwin, who joined the original band, Jeremy Spencer, they were all there, so that Peter did not want to be King Tut in the front there, taking all the limelight. And I think it was way more meaningful in sense of where he came from. It's just, he wanted to be in a band. And he created that band and made sure the band was not called Peter Green's anything, because he could have very easily.

• 10:16Speaker 04

  And I always thank him for that. The name Fleetwood Mac, he was asked, and he said, well, I always thought that I would probably move on, which he did, under very strange circumstances, unfortunately for us. And he said, I wanted Mick and John to have something. And I saw and heard this interview years and years and years and years later. It's like finding out a family relative will tell you what the real story was. And sometimes it's mind-blowing, and sometimes it's hugely moving and gratifying to hear. And that was one of them.

• 10:52Alec Baldwin?

  You didn't start drumming till you were 13, correct?

• 10:55Speaker 04

  Officially, yeah. I would say I started hitting furniture when I was about eight.

• 11:00Alec Baldwin?

  What changed when you were 13 that you were like, I want to drum now on a serious level? What changed?

• 11:05Speaker 04

  Oh, I would think that first of all, being completely on some shape or form, completely dyslexic and had not one iota of any academic prowess whatsoever at school. So there I was, struggling with great parents. So I never felt threatened or less than that I couldn't, I still don't know my alphabet. Or, I mean, if my whole family was lined up, God forbid, and said,

• 11:31Alec Baldwin?

  You don't have to.

• 11:32Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, I know. But a lot of people say, you're kidding me. It's a lot of people say about what I do when I play drums. I said, actually, I sort of really don't know what I'm doing, to tell you the real truth. And they go, well, it's not, then they start arguing with you. Go, how can you do that? You're full of shit, you know? You know, I said, no, no, it just comes out. I've no idea. So I blundered into it. But I would think that the love and the one thing that I could grab on to was the fact that I, for some reason, I used to play tapping on furniture, which I mentioned to you, back in Norway, when I was much younger. And we'd traveled to Egypt. So I remember these leather, little funny, we call them tuftas or something, things stuffed

• 12:17Speaker 04

  with newspaper, that sound really cool. They're leather, leather, sort of ottoman things. And, and I, mum would listen to the home service and do the cleaning and have a Dubonnet, and have a one cigarette of the day. This is when I was probably about six or seven in Norway. And I remember listening to the radio and tapping on, I don't know why, on furniture. But daddy used to tap on, on coins and do military things in his pocket. And he would play bottles with water in them at parties. So I vaguely remember that. I don't think that's why I did it. But I think my quantum

• 12:57Speaker 04

  leap was a blessing. And it was like a divine intervention of sorts. That the one thing I loved doing, I had this obsession with collecting drum catalogs and fantasies of gold and sparkling instruments that, you know, were my dream. So at boarding school, the last thing I did, I had this whole package filled with brochures, opened one to the other. And I think I saw my way out. And when dad said, do you want to go to college? And he didn't have any money. But he was obviously making it available for me. And with tears in our eyes, I said, Daddy, I'm wanting to go to London and play drums. And by that time, I'd had my little drum kit, almost a toy drum kit in the house.

• 13:43Speaker 04

  And I think it was my learning disability that drove me by some happenstance. Both my sisters went into the arts. One was a very fine actress, Susan, with the Royal Shakespeare Company. And, and my elder sister was an art student at the Polytechnic. So we were all completely academically useless. So I had the blessing that mum and dad said then, my God, it's probably the only one thing he really thinks he can do. And that was

• 14:11Alec Baldwin?

  And they encouraged you?

• 14:13Speaker 04

  Absolutely. Just, I, I had complete and utter, not one iota of any cynicism whatsoever. And they sent me off with a drum kit to London, wrapped in a blanket. My father wrote a poem about it.

• 14:27Alec Baldwin?

  I'm Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing. If you love conversations with iconic musicians, who also happen to be members of long lasting bands, be sure to check out my conversation with the Who's legendary frontman, Roger Daltrey, from our archives. Daltrey talked about the first time he swung a microphone around on stage.

• 14:49Speaker 02

  No one taught me. I just, I got

• 14:50Alec Baldwin?

  You just did it yourself?

• 14:51Speaker 02

  I used to, once I went into the free form in the early days, the late 60s, it just came out of boredom. I was, I couldn't stand there and be like Robert Plant. I wasn't cool enough. I just needed to dance. Well, I didn't want to dance like an ordinary dancer. So I just started to play with it. And it just got bigger and bigger

• 15:09Alec Baldwin?

  To channel your energy.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  And channel the energy. And then Pete started jumping and that legendary jump of his.

• 15:16Alec Baldwin?

  Windmilling?

• 15:17Speaker 02

  He's like a kangaroo, wasn't he? And, but the whole thing was kind of in with the music. It became like a ballet, didn't it? It was kind of extraordinary.

• 15:26Alec Baldwin?

  Hear the rest of my conversation with Roger Daltrey at hereisthething.org. After the break, we talk about the women who became essential to the group's sound.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  911, what's your emergency?

• 15:48Speaker 02

  Please help us. They're everywhere.

• 15:50Alec Baldwin?

  We think they're murder hornets. 911 Nashville returns. What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 16:01Speaker 03

  Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 16:08Alec Baldwin?

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 16:14Speaker 03

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 16:45Speaker 07

  Whether you're buying, renting, or selling, Zillow can help make your someday today to help find a home that fits where you are in life, or that apartment that's a little closer to where you want to be. Zillow has the right information, tools, and support to help turn your future home into a reality. Because someday starts today. Visit zillow.com/today to get started. Hola a todos. Soy Jamie Lynn Sigler. Cuando me diagnosticaron tenía veintitantos años y todo mi mundo cambió por completo. Pero con el tiempo decidí que no iba a permitir que eso frenara mi vida. Quise tomar las riendas y después de hablar con mi médico

• 17:28Speaker 07

  sobre mis opciones, la elección para mí fue obvia. Boom, eso es KISSIMTA. Obtenga más información sobre KISSIMTA o fotumab en kissimta.com.

• 17:40Speaker 03

  Breathe in and reset with Lincoln Rejuvenate, an available multisensory feature in the 2027 Lincoln Navigator SUV. Experience the luxurious massage, visuals, and scents to help you relax in the driver's seat. It's your time for a reset. Visit lincoln.com to learn more. Lincoln Rejuvenate does not operate unless the vehicle is in park, when the vehicle is off, or if any doors open. Do not use the feature in a closed garage or in other enclosed areas. See owner's manual for important operating instructions. Lincoln and Navigator trademarks of Ford or its affiliates. All rights reserved.

• 18:23Alec Baldwin?

  I'm Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing.

• 18:34Alec Baldwin?

  That's Christine McVie performing Songbird. McVie joined Fleetwood Mac in 1970. When Peter Green left, she'd married John McVie a couple of years before. Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks joined in 1975. I wanted to know if, when Christine joined, there was any pressure to include a woman?

• 18:56Speaker 04

  Well, Christine, for sure, any lovely lady out there would not take it wrong. She was a musician. And she was a great piano player. And her experience was already integrated with being, I'm a player. And it was nothing of the sort that it was a woman or a man. It was just who you are and what you do. Truly, it was that. And she cherishes that to this day. Because we call her The Rock. You know, she's like, she doesn't rely on anything other than no prissy stuff. I am who I am, and am I delivering what you need?

• 19:37Speaker 04

  And she has that respect. So she came into the band as a player, literally. And, and there was no thought, she, she knew John, which had nothing to do with it, apart from

• 19:47Alec Baldwin?

  Is your maiden name really perfect? Is it Christine perfect?

• 19:50Speaker 04

  Yeah. And John would say, she was perfect before she married me.

• 19:56Alec Baldwin?

  Well done, John.

• 19:59Speaker 04

  So that was really it. It was not about having a lady in the band.

• 20:03Alec Baldwin?

  Was it about we need a girl?

• 20:05Speaker 04

  No, it was about a really, really

• 20:07Alec Baldwin?

  Great musician.

• 20:08Speaker 04

  Bloody good piano player.

• 20:10Alec Baldwin?

  Let me just say, let me interject this because it's true, which is that in that world, there is nobody who casts a spell on me like Christine Lickley. I mean, I love her singing beyond belief. I mean, she just, she does something to me that I can't even describe. It's her singing is so beautiful, you know?

• 20:28Speaker 04

  Well, I can second that.

• 20:29Alec Baldwin?

  Right, right, right. So she's with you in the band and then you decide to have another woman join the band. So Buckingham, you ask him to join the band?

• 20:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, but Bob Welch had left at rather short notice and I knew Bob extremely well. Really lovely, hugely interesting chap. So he left, but prior to that, I'd been in the studio, Sound City, to try and find a studio to record the next album with Fleetwood Mac. He leaves and I meet Stevie and Lindsay after the fact, having heard Keith played to demonstrate the studio, part of a Buckham Nick's album that he'd made with them, The Album. And then Bob left and I made a phone call and I said, you know that music you were playing? Who, what, how? And you're right, I was looking for a guitar player. So I forever have Stevie,

• 21:22Speaker 04

  to this day, in a comedic sense, but always with a knife in my back.

• 21:28Speaker 04

  It wasn't really me that you wanted, it was Lindsay, which was true. And in very short form, Lindsay made it very clear that if he was to join, which was not a slam dunk at the beginning, because he and Stevie were thinking about going forward in their own world. And she actually persuaded Lindsay to join the band, pretty much. She got fed up with waiting tables and stuff. So she came somewhat originally by default and yet not, because the real story is, it was very evident early on, although Stevie said, you know, loves to dig at me,

• 22:07Speaker 04

  was that first of all, Lindsay was incredibly loyal to her and I'm not going to do this without her. Boom, over. Then it didn't take a rocket scientist to realize these songs, these beautiful songs, were co-written by both Lindsay and Stevie. And then you listen to the vocal blend, which is none other than going like, when you hear the Everly Brothers, you go like, oh my God, that just joined at the hip. And they came in short form into the band as a duo, which was a merciful decision. When I look back, that Lindsay did not desert her and said, I'm here, but I'm here with my partner. And that's how that happened.

• 22:52Alec Baldwin?

  I've asked other very successful artists such as yourself in the music world, what does a producer do for you when you're in a studio and you're making a record? Who's the decider? Who decides what take, what track? This vocal track, this drum track, whatever. But when you had a collaboration with a producer that helped you, what did they do for you?

• 23:13Speaker 04

  Well, I think the simple form would be that we as a band, no matter what, which is not always the case, and it's not always the magic formula. A lot of people just totally excel by being guided and permanently told what to do and have a mirror that's a reflection from another aspect, another interpretation of really who they truly are. And that's fine. That was so not how we grew up into and blustered into what we were doing. So I would say that anyone that's worked, including Keith, Mike Vernon, the first record producer, was probably the most influential, that he was a blues fanatic

• 23:56Speaker 04

  and he ran that little label we were on called Blue Horizon. And after that, so he would be picking songs here and there with Peter and the band. After that, it's really about, are you a band member? Meaning them. How's the aesthetic of your chemistry being able to not insist, but integrate right into the fabric of being in a band? And that's what I would always look out for. And I think that's been the, our success has been absolute expression with a mirror of sorts, but someone who's really listening to and having an empathy with, what am I dealing with here?

• 24:39Speaker 04

  Especially later on, when we became very much five separate expressive people, that whoever it was, you have to look back on and give them huge amounts of credit as being some form of a social director, more than an artistic director. And I lost all my hair because I was both, but.

• 25:02Alec Baldwin?

  Now, would you say, when you say five separate distinct beings, there was a period when they weren't. They were a unit. And they were a unit during what period and what was that like? And what changed that musically?

• 25:17Speaker 04

  Well, Fleetwood Mac was already a stage that existed. And Fleetwood Mac was always about change, so that you were accepted for who you were. Anyone should express themselves, you know? When I look back on it, that's in a naive way, what I must have understood. Especially being a drummer, when you go, oh, what the hell am I going to do? If I don't have a front line and people that are delivering the play, you know? Not to diminish who I am and what I am, but that was my function, probably more than anything. So they came as different characters, walking on that stage. And if you see and hear the music, you go, none of it makes any sense.

• 26:02Speaker 04

  None of them were clones of anyone. They were all completely their own entity. So what they had to learn was to be in a band. Everyone was extremely unhappy emotionally and on the making of rumors. And Lindsay's sitting on the floor and it's tough, you know? No one ever intended to leave or anything, but one time I remember sitting in the studio at the record plant with Lindsay and he just turned around and said, I don't know whether I can do this, you know? It's just, you know, we're in transition here. And his interpretation was, can I be in a band? Can I be in a band? Especially with the pressure of, is this what it's like being in a band?

• 26:46Speaker 04

  You're emotionally exposed and everyone was, we were all in, you know? I'm drifting into the area where we promised we wouldn't go, but. So I just sat with him and he was playing a sitar, I remember it distinctly. And I said, then you must go. If it's self-preservation, don't destroy that. Don't destroy yourself because of the play, in essence.

• 27:09Alec Baldwin?

  Peter Green.

• 27:10Speaker 04

  Yeah. And I said, I don't have any ultimate, apart from if it's that bad, then you have to go. And then I segue and I said, this is what it is. Everything is a compromise when you're walking on a stage and sharing that, that stage. And this is that stage. And I'm not forcing you. I'd be extremely sad if halfway through an album, you just can't finish it out. And he didn't say much. He just said, I understand. And he stayed.

• 27:40Alec Baldwin?

  A guy once said to me, and he was much younger than me, and this is maybe like 10 years ago, I was in my early 50s. It was in the lines of like advice to him for his career. And I said, well, do you really want like the cold, hard, unvarnished? You want it with the bark on or the bark off? And I said, if you want it with the bark on, then don't get married till you're 40. Don't have any kids till you're 40. Give yourself, not just your 20s, but your 30s, give this everything you have. If you want to be an actor with a real prime, if you want to be Leo DiCaprio, you want to be a guy who's like at the top of the pile and making movies with the best directors, the best scripts, everything's the best, the budgets, the release dates, everything. If you want to surf that wave all the way to the shore, then you have to make this the most important thing in your life.

• 28:25Alec Baldwin?

  Do you find that that was true for you as well?

• 28:27Speaker 04

  I think in retrospect, we didn't know because you're in it, but as a comment, I think is entirely correct and proven out in no uncertain terms, time and time and time and time and time and time again. Are there miracles that slip through and survive? Like a built-in version of what you've just said in terms of advice? Yeah, few and far between. It really puts a wall that you don't even realize that you're putting up, where you're so into what you're doing, that people get left out and feel pushed away. So ideally, I think your advice is entirely correct. But that advice is always, almost in retrospect for anyone.

• 29:10Alec Baldwin?

  It's always hindsight. But I'm wondering also, you're in a band with three men, I mean, as Fleetwood Mac is most renowned for, it's three men and two women. And neither one of those women has children.

• 29:22Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 29:23Alec Baldwin?

  Were they people that they were going through life and they were like, well, we're going to get to that. And the next year, they turned around, they were like, wow, 25 years went by like nothing, you know?

• 29:30Speaker 04

  I would say if either Chris or Stevie, I feel comfortable in this conversation saying, there is no doubt that they made that decision to dedicate their lives to their careers. With flashes of what if, but I think both of these ladies would have no problem saying that that was the order of the

• 29:54Alec Baldwin?

  A conscious choice.

• 29:55Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 29:57Alec Baldwin?

  Interesting, very interesting.

• 29:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:59Alec Baldwin?

  Now, when people ask me about my drug use, I say that I snorted a line of cocaine from here to Saturn. Then we did a line of cocaine on the rings of Saturn. And then we took it home with another line of cocaine.

• 30:10Speaker 04

  Oh, I've got your beat for sure.

• 30:15Alec Baldwin?

  Is that possible? Is that even possible?

• 30:16Speaker 04

  I think your description is that actually more far reaching than mine. The planetary version. But my version of that would be, and I've never lived it down. But, you know, I have no problem at all, apart from don't go there. And then you have the war stories, which this is sort of tending to be. And I'll preface it by saying war stories are fine, but there's a time and place and what can you learn from them? Would be my little lesson for anyone listening. So having said that, my transgression was, which was some awful interview I did. And I said, well, I, one time, you know, I was in the studio and I'm talking about my, well, how much coke do you think I've ever done?

• 31:00Speaker 04

  This was like in our private world. And we measured out a good semi fat line of cocaine. And then duplicated it and then X amount of years. So in the last something, something amount of years, we actually worked it out. Instead of cutting tape and editing the song together, we got into a transgression of actually working out probably about how long would that line be? And it was seven miles long, apparently.

• 31:31Speaker 04

  And I never lived that down. And years, always, especially in England, where they love all that terrible stuff. And I have to sit there not talking about, if in you would be like someone talking about something in your life versus the play I'm in or the script I've just written or the book I've just, you know, and you go, and you go like, well, live with it because you opened your mouth in the first place all those years ago. And mine would be one of probably quite a few transgressions in terms of that, but comedically. So I, I still get asked, you know, was it really seven miles long? And I look down to my trouser and go, well, I wished.

• 32:16Alec Baldwin?

  You know, I'm 35 years sober. I got sober a long time ago in LA. For you, did you feel that when that stopped? Because for me, when it stopped, there were good things, but there were also bad things because you're forced to confront everything. You know, if you are, if you go out in the world and you don't drink and you don't take drugs, I mean, I'm not commenting on you, but speaking for myself, you are kind of unarmored and you need to go out and face the world. And you need to resolve all your problems. You can't sit in the problem anymore. You've got to resolve things and confront things and clean up the mess and so forth. And I'm wondering for you, what happened to you musically once you stopped abusing yourself?

• 32:53Speaker 04

  Well, I still drink, but the marching powder was a massive part of my life for probably way over 20 years.

• 33:04Alec Baldwin?

  God, that's a long time.

• 33:05Speaker 04

  I don't even know. It's a fucking miracle.

• 33:10Alec Baldwin?

  That's a long time to have that, that problem.

• 33:12Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. I was known as the king of toot. And everyone would always know that I wouldn't hoard it, you know? And then I did hit a brick wall and it was like slow motion. And my mother biddy would always say, because they're hugely supportive, almost blindly supportive, oh, it's no problem at all. Whenever he wants to stop, he can stop it. You know, all those catchphrases. And I always sort of thought that I could. And then I hit a brick wall, literally. And someone that I shared my life with said, I'm, I'm done. I can't be around this anymore. And I said, please don't go.

• 33:54Speaker 04

  Leave me alone for two days. And that's what I did. And never touched the stuff since overnight.

• 34:05Alec Baldwin?

  That's a miracle.

• 34:05Speaker 04

  Well, it's divine intervention, but it's also misplaced in terms of that, that's when I probably should have gone into a program and, and found out what you touched on. What were those reasons? And I've done that since a couple of times with drink and had a sort of a wake up call. And I just thought it was fun. I was around people telling me literally countless horror stories of what had happened to them, especially when they were children and young. And I, I had no support and all sorts of terrible things. And I just said, I feel so terrible because I just thought it was fun until it wasn't. And I still actually haven't found the key of what was that?

• 34:50Speaker 04

  My parents didn't drink unduly, had an incredible supportive childhood. But that brick wall.

• 34:57Alec Baldwin?

  Was it insecurity about being in public, maybe?

• 35:00Speaker 04

  Oh, I think there were elements of that.

• 35:02Alec Baldwin?

  Being famous. I mean, Fleetwood Mac, I mean, this music was coming out of every clamshell on the beach for a while.

• 35:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:09Alec Baldwin?

  Every horse in the park was singing, you can go your own way. You know, it was like this music was everywhere.

• 35:16Speaker 04

  Everywhere, yeah.

• 35:18Alec Baldwin?

  There were so many songs that were just washing over you. It was like in the air all the time. Was that unsettling for you, fame and all that attention? Did you need to medicate yourself to get through that period?

• 35:28Speaker 04

  I would say immediately, you notice how quickly I went, no. But I do get nervous about performing. If someone said, make a speech and read the speech to 3,000 people, I would be really put upon. Go out on stage and just talk to someone I love. Not even a question. I know people around me that all of the trimmings of what you just mentioned would be, was that something that freaked you out? I have to say, no, because of the way I was brought up. It was just fantastic and, and fun.

• 36:09Speaker 04

  And, and, but actually performing and delivering certain aspects, I would have to say, did bring out a fundamental, some form of academic calling out that you don't know quite what you're doing. And therefore you're shitting yourself. And therefore I know for a fact for years, and I, I played sober for 15 years. The real truth is I didn't enjoy it. So when I play now, I have one bottle of red wine and I'm fairly well behaved. And without it, I can't even breathe.

• 36:53Speaker 04

  And I, I've, I've tried hypnosis. I've tried everything known to mankind to get over it and breathing. And I had a guy like meditating with me on the road when I really, really, really, really, really didn't drink. All I can say is that instead of enjoying myself, I had my road manager with a brown paper bag so I could breathe into it to stop myself getting high anxiety. I don't enjoy it. And it's because of the element, which is nothing to do with fame and fortune. It's actually who are you, what are you in the moment? And being called out like being in the class that I, I didn't, I didn't know.

• 37:35Alec Baldwin?

  McFleetwood. Subscribe to Here's the Thing on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, leave us a review. I really appreciate it. Few bands have managed to survive longer than Fleetwood Mac. When we return, the surprising resurgence of interest in the band's 1977 album, Rumors.

• 38:07Alec Baldwin?

  911, what's your emergency?

• 38:11Alec Baldwin?

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets. 911 Nashville returns. It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 38:23Speaker 03

  Oh, sin swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues for Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 38:30Alec Baldwin?

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 38:37Speaker 06

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 39:07Speaker 07

  Whether you're buying, renting or selling, Zillow can help make your someday today. To help find a home that fits where you are in life or that apartment that's a little closer to where you want to be. Zillow has the right information, tools and support to help turn your future home into a reality. Because someday starts today. Visit zillow.com/today to get started. Hola a todos, soy Jamie Lynn Sigler. Cuando me diagnosticaron tenía veintitantos años y todo mi mundo cambió por completo. Pero con el tiempo decidí que no iba a permitir que eso frenara mi vida. Quise tomar las riendas. Y después de hablar con mi médico sobre mis opciones,

• 39:51Speaker 07

  la elección para mí fue obvia. Boom, eso es KISSIMTA. Obtenga más información sobre KISSIMTA o FOTUMA MAP en kissimta.com.

• 40:02Speaker 03

  Breathe in and reset with Lincoln Rejuvenate. An available multisensory feature in the 2027 Lincoln Navigator SUV. Experience the luxurious massage, visuals and scents to help you relax in the driver's seat. It's your time for a reset. Visit lincoln.com to learn more. Lincoln Rejuvenate does not operate unless the vehicle is in park. When the vehicle is off or if any doors open, do not use the feature in a closed garage or in other enclosed areas. See owner's manual for important operating instructions. Lincoln and Navigator trademarks of Ford or its affiliates. All rights reserved.

• 40:48Alec Baldwin?

  That's the song Hypnotized, recorded during the Bob Welch era of Fleetwood Mac. Mick Fleetwood has been the drummer of Fleetwood Mac for more than 50 years. And as there's usually one person in every long lasting band that brings them back together, I asked, who was that person for Fleetwood Mac?

• 41:08Speaker 04

  It would be me and, and that was and is and has been my function. I imaged it a while ago, not not any big deal, but I'm going like, you know, because I don't write, I don't sing, although I'm enjoying doing some of that now, which is interesting, really actually interesting, to be able to make a private fool of yourself with no pressure. I said, I think my story would be, and I'm really happy about it and quietly proud of it, that my function was that. I drifted into it, I learnt it, and me and John always wanted to have a band to be in. Why wouldn't you?

• 41:53Speaker 04

  And I said, I think that story is my song.

• 41:56Alec Baldwin?

  Your musical catalog contains so many beautiful songs. It's beautiful music and the poetry is beautiful and the lyrics, it still moves you to this day.

• 42:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, I take that as a lovely compliment on behalf of all of us in this crazy band and thank you. And I think there is sometimes almost the lighthearted part of Fleetwood Mac or whatever word one wants to use, the sort of the poppy part of it was always balanced out by a form of reveal, of a form of very often some romance of sadness and entertaining that type of dialogue would be for me is Songbird. And there of course are others, but I remember when Chris wrote that. And I actually spoke very recently to her about it.

• 42:52Speaker 04

  We just drifted into a conversation and she totally remembered. And I went, Chris, this is like Edith Piaf on a stage alone. And she was in the studio at the Record Plant. And I said, this needs to be lonely. We should record it in an empty theater, not in a shag carpet studio. Let's go and do that. And we did, and we went to college over in Berkeley and recorded that song. As the imaging of it was so devastating to me, I said, you are alone. You are alone, playing this lovely, lovely song, and it should be all of that. And that's exactly what we did.

• 43:37Speaker 04

  It was, it was a most pregnant sweet moment around the song that I can tell in our short conversation.

• 43:45Alec Baldwin?

  Some, including Stevie Nicks, and we read about Dylan's going to sell his catalog and David Crosby's getting ready to sell his catalog. And I guess in this COVID era and beyond, in the age of streaming music, people are seeing sources of revenue dry up. Certainly some of these people are older, they're, you know, they're not selling their catalog and they're in their 30s or whatever. But what do you think of them?

• 44:07Speaker 04

  I think it's great. I'm sure it's not for everyone or whatever, but I think the circumstances has triggered so many things, this would be one of them. I think those decisions may or may not have been made anyhow, who's to say? Why not? And, and a body of work that is to be quite frankly, translated into all sorts of lovely things for these people, whatever that might be, because the people you're talking about, they certainly don't need any money for the most part. But no, I will say, let's say we doubt it. So it, it becomes something that will grow into all sorts of other things, one would imagine.

• 44:50Speaker 04

  What they might be is their business, you know? And one of the things I think is family. I think a lot of people are handing down to family ahead of time versus, you know, people picking through and you're, God forbid, whenever that moment comes and to see family enjoying stuff that can be allocated before you do pop off.

• 45:12Alec Baldwin?

  So if I'm not mistaken, Rumors is a bestselling album again now as the direct result of some guy on a skateboard swinging down cranberry juice. What did you think? What did you think of when you first came across the TikTok phenomenon that has occurred?

• 45:33Speaker 04

  Well, I know him as Nathan. His online name is Dogface. And it is quite unbelievable. All hell was breaking loose because he made a decision one day to, to do his thing. It happened in the most charming way. And then someone said, well, would you, would you? I said, well, I can't get on a skateboard. So I hung myself off the back of a, of a golf cart and did the thing. And the next thing I know, we're all on, you know, halftime sports programs and God knows what else.

• 46:06Alec Baldwin?

  Oh, my God.

• 46:07Speaker 04

  His whole life has changed. And I actually loved it because it was so not thought of. One of the lovely things I was able to say on a Zoom call, he was doing an interview in England with some very upstanding BBC chap. And I, he had no idea I was going to come on the Zoom call. So that's when I first met him, you know, face to face. And then his family came on, they sang songs to me and stuff. And I said, let me tell you, Nathan, Fleetwood Mac owes you. It's been a fantastic moment in time that, that went AWOL and typical Fleetwood Mac, just when you think, you know, we've survived, we've been really lucky, you know?

• 46:50Speaker 04

  And so many, some of the things we've touched on in our talk, where against hopeless odds, we've prevailed. And I always joke about, especially with Lindsay Buckingham, years ago, I used to sit with him and go like, we are the, the most abused rock and roll franchise in the world, meaning we've never capitalized on anything, really. We're all idiots. But it's sort of good and, and we're still here. It's unbelievable.

• 47:20Alec Baldwin?

  Well, I mean, again, I say this because it's easy and that is you're still here and, and people are picking songs of yours to soundtrack their kind of playfulness on TikTok and so forth, because the music is great. I mean, you and you're going back to Hypnotized and Welch. I love Hypnotized. I love Mystery to Me. I love, I love those early records. I play them to death. I love everything you guys, and then solo acts, Kristia, you know, Stevie's solo albums, blah, blah, blah. I, I love it all, but I mean, you, you, you live in people's hearts because the music is that good. You guys made some of the greatest music in the history of, of the music business. Thank you so much.

• 48:01Speaker 04

  No, it's been an absolute pleasure. And, and I remember something my father said, and it seems to really apply to a lot of the storytelling about this funny life and most certainly Fleetwood Mac and the, the fact that there have been all sorts of ups and downs and around the mulberry bush and pain and a lot of happiness as well. My dad would always say, one thing, Mick, I can tell you, it's all been worth a damn. And, and hearing you say that about the music makes me feel that it's all been worth a damn and thank you. Lots of love to you.

• 48:39Alec Baldwin?

  And my love to you, Mick Fleetwood.

• 49:04Alec Baldwin?

  I'm Alec Baldwin and this is Here's the Thing from iHeartRadio.

• 49:45Speaker 07

  Okay, laundry stinks, literally. I mean, you could just keep buying new underwear, not that I've ever done that, or maybe sort your clothes into piles based on how re-wearable or filthy they are, or just use Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. It's made for real life stinks and stains. So even if you don't do laundry the quote, right way, Deep Clean will knock it out. I mean, it is from the number one liquid detergent brand that tackles more loads than any other. Come clean with Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. Number one claim based on total wash loads sold. This week on Game Recognized Game with Breonna Stewart and me, Miles Turner, we talk with two-time WNBA All-Star and current ESPN analyst, Janae Ogumike, about tearing

• 50:30Speaker 07

  her Achilles tendon while playing in China and how a deep connection with her sister Nekka helped the recovery process. Nekka claims to have felt something while she was sleeping and that's why she was up when I called. And I was like, oh my gosh, Nekka, I'm hurt. And I think this is a problem. Listen to Game Recognized Game with Stewie and Miles on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 50:52Speaker 07

  What's that? My fresh detector. Uh, your what? There it is. What is it detecting? Fresh produce, fresh meat. Okay, what happens if it detects something really fresh?

• 51:06Speaker 07

  Apparently we celebrate. At Food Lion, you can count on fresh food at fresher prices when your fresh detector is going off. Head to your local Food Lion or shop at foodlion.com. Lisa, tell them about our new show. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Iwanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisi DiGiulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 51:51Speaker 03

  Wise is the smart way to manage the currencies you need around the globe. When you send money abroad using your bank, you could get hit with hidden fees and exchange rate markups. There's a better way. Try Wise. Wise uses the exchange rate you'd usually find on Google with no unwelcome surprises. Plus, most transfers happen in under 20 seconds, which means your money arrives in less time than you've been listening to me. It's simple and free to sign up when you download the Wise app. Be smart, get wise. Ts and Cs apply.

• 52:20Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.