242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo

In this episode, Garrett and Payton delve into the mysterious case of Jermain Charlo. After she goes missing, her final known moments are captured on camera, sparking a sluggish police investigation that ultimately leads to heartbreak. Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/themwmh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/murderwithmyhusband/ Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@murderwithmyhusband Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-dark/id1662304327 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36SDVKB2MEWpFGVs9kRgQ7?si=f5224c9fd99542a7 Case Sources: DailyMail.com - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13962375/video-missing-mom-jermain-charlo-missoula.html Uncovered.com - https://uncovered.com/cases/jermain-charlo KPax.com - https://www.kpax.com/news/mmip/missing-woman-jermain-charlos-family-pleased-with-national-spotlight-on-the-case#google_vignette TheSun.com - https://www.the-sun.com/news/12656616/jermain-charlo-missing-48-hours-michael-defrance-mmiw/ CBSNews.com - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jermain-charlo-search-michael-defrance-investigation-montana-timeline-48-hours/ DailyMontanan.com - https://dailymontanan.com/2023/05/02/judge-jermain-charlos-ex-boyfriend-guilty-of-illegal-firearms-possession-false-statements/ GreatFallsTribune.com - https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/2021/08/05/ex-boyfriend-jermain-charlo-appears-federal-court/5499952001/ Oxygen.com - https://www.oxygen.com/true-crime-buzz/jermain-charlo-missing-person-case-focus-of-new-podcast-series IndianLaw.org - https://indianlaw.org/issue/ending-violence-against-native-women#:~:text=More%20than%204%20in%205,2%20have%20experienced%20sexual%20violence GBVLearningNetwork.ca - ​​https://gbvlearningnetwork.ca/our-work/issuebased_newsletters/Issue-25/index.html RollingStone.com - https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/stolen-jermain-podcast-connie-walker-interview-1157200/ NewYorker.com - https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-the-southwest/is-there-hope-for-the-missing-and-murdered-indigenous-women#:~:text=(The%20Bureau%20of%20Indian%20Affairs,Natives%20that%20have%20gone%20unsolved.) KatieCouric.com - https://katiecouric.com/news/why-are-indigenous-women-going-missing-and-cases-ignored/ Vogue.com - https://www.vogue.com/article/connie-walker-stolen-the-search-for-jermain-podcast NativeHope.org - https://www.nativehope.org/missing-and-murdered-indigenous-women-mmiw?utm_term=missing%20and%20murdered%20indigenous%20women&utm_campaign=MMIW+-+Search&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_tgt=kwd-499968175672&hsa_grp=144380966783&hsa_src=g&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_mt=b&hsa_ver=3&hsa_ad=646853914079&hsa_acc=3651624507&hsa_kw=missing%20and%20murdered%20indigenous%20women&hsa_cam=19633980915&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoae5BhCNARIsADVLzZcTrF8h2a9Pj6QNIFV3W0ILrzdntgZMcCiRZRil4CP_TmonKKBAnp0aAtP0EALw_wcB Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids, but what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates, where do you even start? Well, protecting your home and auto is a great place to start. Progressive offers customized coverage options, so you can be sure you have the right coverage. They're basically the baby gates of insurance. Get a quote at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers, not available in all states.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  You know that feeling. Too many updates, too many meetings, too many things falling through the cracks. Monday.com was built for that gap. The AI work platform designed from the ground up for people and agents to work side by side and deliver more together. Drafting the brief, flagging risks, running a competitive scan, your agent can do it all. And the best part, anyone can build one, even you. Try it. Create your first Monday agent today at monday.com.

• 1:00Payton Moreland?

  You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with my Husband. I'm Peyton Morland.

• 1:07Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm Garrett Moreland.

• 1:08Payton Moreland?

  And he's the husband.

• 1:08Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm the husband. If you're watching on YouTube, I feel like I look very corporate or like professional with this coffee in my hand, my legs, one of my legs crossed.

• 1:18Payton Moreland?

  Don't spill it.

• 1:20Garrett Moreland?

  Cheers. Thank you for being here. We love you all. If you want bonus content and ad-free content, do not forget to subscribe to Apple subscriptions, Patreon, Spotify subscriptions. We have it all. You will get two bonus episodes each month and ad-free content. Again, thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. Thank you for supporting. Thank you for following. Thank you for downloading. We love you guys. We would not be here doing this podcast without you guys. And we love that you like listening to our content.

• 1:51Payton Moreland?

  You got your 10 seconds?

• 1:53Garrett Moreland?

  No, I don't. But I will think of one right now. Peyton and I took pictures, um, basically for the first time together in, since we got engaged. Eight years, eight and a half years, nine years, something, somewhere between eight and nine years.

• 2:10Garrett Moreland?

  We're both on the same page about that. So no harm, no foul. But yeah, it's been a while since we took pictures and Peyton and I went and took pictures. We just caught them back. We love them. They turned out really good. I'm sure Peyton will post some of them, but it was, I know it's kind of crazy. It's crazy how fast time can go. And all of a sudden you're like, whoa, we haven't taken pictures together in X amount of years, like the time just flies by as you start working and I don't know, real life hits you and Peyton and I don't even have kids. So I can't imagine when you have kids, like time just starts flying by. I don't know. I guess that's my 10 seconds. It's more of a chill 10 seconds. I was just thinking about that the other day.

• 2:47Payton Moreland?

  Our sources for this episode are DailyMail.com, uncovered.com, KPAX.com, TheSun.com, CBS News, dailymontanan.com, GreatFallsTribune.com, Oxygen.com, IndianLaw.org, GBVLearningNetwork.ca, RollingStone.com, NewYorker.com, katiecouric.com, Vogue.com, and NativeHope.org. In 2016, the National Crime Information Reporting Center released a staggering statistic. That year, there were 5,712 missing women and girls from the American Indian and Alaska Native Community. However, only 116 of those cases were logged in the US Department of Justice's database.

• 3:30Payton Moreland?

  This community of women is 12 times more likely to be murdered and go missing than any other demographic in the US and Canada. I mean, think about that. That is a scary number.

• 3:43Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 3:44Payton Moreland?

  And while we've covered murdered and missing Indigenous women's cases in the past, today's story is a perfect example of why we have a lot of progress to make as a nation. Because over 4,000 of these cases have run cold. And they managed to do so even when officials have a pretty good lead on a primary suspect, which is why Jermaine Charlo's case is one that will leave you asking. What do we have to do to start getting justice for these MMIW women? So today, we're headed to Montana to the Flathead Reservation. This is about 40 miles outside of Missoula.

• 4:25Payton Moreland?

  This is where Jermaine Charlo, a member of the Confederated Salish and Kootenay Tribe grows up. Now, on the reservation, the phrase "it takes a village" was taken pretty literally. So when Jermaine was born on April 23rd, 1995, everyone, from her grandparents to her cousins, her aunts and uncles, were there to lend a hand with raising her. Especially since Jermaine's parents were no longer together and she was mostly being raised by her single mother. Now, it was clear early on that Jermaine was incredibly artistic. When she wasn't drawing or knitting, she was thriving in the great outdoors,

• 5:07Payton Moreland?

  fishing or hunting, or taking care of one of her many, many pets. She had squirrels to dogs to pigs. And as she got older, Jermaine had dreams of going to the Institute of American Indian Arts in New Mexico and finding ways to blend both her heritage and culture with her incredible talent. But life had other plans for Jermaine. When she was just 14 years old, Jermaine met a boy that she fell hard for. It was 16-year-old Michael DeFrance, who was a non-tribal citizen. So the two began a relationship. But before Jermaine even hit her twenties, she found herself pregnant with her first son and then her second son soon after.

• 5:52Garrett Moreland?

  This might be a question, maybe not for you, but for any of our listeners that are Native American. And part of that, is that like a no-no? Like, is that something that's looked down upon or you're not supposed to do?

• 6:07Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, I would have no idea. I think that that's like a cultural.

• 6:10Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, well, if anyone is part of that um culture and community, let us know because I'm actually, I'm curious. I don't know.

• 6:18Payton Moreland?

  Now, I do need to say that over the years that they were dating, things were hot and cold between Jermaine and Michael. But Jermaine always put a strong face on for her two kids. She was eager to teach them about their heritage, how to fish, how to hunt. But parenthood definitely got in the way of her art school dreams. Instead, Jermaine worked a bunch of odd jobs around the reservation. The big river cantina, a tree planter with the tribal forest services. At one point, she even had an interest in becoming a firefighter. This is all to say that Jermaine was passionate about her community and her people.

• 6:57Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 6:57Payton Moreland?

  And she never ventured too far from home. She always stayed very connected to her roots. This is something Michael, who was definitely controlling at times, could never take away from Jermaine. But in 2017, Michael actually seemed to move on from her. He had gotten engaged to a new girlfriend. And Jermaine, according to her Facebook status in 2017, had gone from single to in a relationship with someone new herself. But with two young boys tying them together, Michael and Jermaine continued to see each other from time to time. That was at least up until June of 2018. So on June 14th, Jermaine and Michael attended a monster truck rally together.

• 7:41Payton Moreland?

  Then on June 15th, Jermaine woke up and spent the first half of her day doing what most 23-year-olds loved to do at this time, making lip syncing videos for TikTok. It was a platform that she was very active on, according to her friends and family. And I want you to know, it's 2018, so she is active on TikTok before TikTok really became TikTok. I think it already changed from Musically.

• 8:04Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, I was gonna ask, is it Musically or is it TikTok?

• 8:06Payton Moreland?

  I think it had already changed.

• 8:08Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 8:08Payton Moreland?

  Um, but just barely.

• 8:10Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 8:11Payton Moreland?

  So she's posting on TikTok. She was very active on it. And in the post, Jermaine seems happy. She's in great spirits, actually. And then she hits the bars in downtown Missoula later that evening. Now she stops at the Dark Horse Bar till around 10:00 PM before heading next door to two more places. That would be the Golden Rose and then followed by the Badlander. Now Jermaine has a few drinks. She's having fun. She's out for the night. She plays pool. She hits the dance floor. And everyone who sees her this night says that she looks like she's having a great time. But a bartender at the Badlander, remember this is the third place she's gone to, says that that night Jermaine was on her phone a lot.

• 8:55Payton Moreland?

  Now, again, it's 2018. I think being glued to your phone as a 23-year-old is honestly not that strange. But what the bartender does find strange is that there is a guy there with Jermaine who keeps trying to get her attention at the bar. He's kind of following her around like a little puppy.

• 9:13Garrett Moreland?

  Hmm.

• 9:13Payton Moreland?

  And the bartender also says neither Jermaine nor this guy she's with really seem to be too intoxicated.

• 9:21Garrett Moreland?

  Imagine the amount of things, um, okay, let me clarify things. Imagine the amount of crazy and unique events that bartenders see daily.

• 9:32Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 9:34Garrett Moreland?

  Whether people are sober, whether they're drunk, just the amount of different people and unique situations that they see is probably.

• 9:42Payton Moreland?

  Right.

• 9:43Garrett Moreland?

  I mean, a lot.

• 9:44Payton Moreland?

  And I do think it's interesting that bartenders actually can recall pretty heavily like the people that they were serving that night.

• 9:50Garrett Moreland?

  I know, me too. It's probably because they're sober.

• 9:53Payton Moreland?

  And the people probably talk a lot.

• 9:55Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 9:56Payton Moreland?

  I think it's also important to note that the bartender says that Jermaine's not just hanging out with this one mystery dude who's following her around. There's groups of people that she's bopping around to, she's socializing with throughout the night. And then she leaves the bar sometime after midnight with one of these groups. And she's actually seen on security footage, talking with them outside the bar. And then she walks off, but that same guy who's kind of following her is trailing a bit behind her.

• 10:27Payton Moreland?

  So by the middle of the next day, Jermaine's family hasn't heard a peep out of her, which is scary because Jermaine always called to check in. And she was constantly posting on social media, but since the night before, Jermaine had gone dark, and now she's not answering her phone. So Jermaine's grandmother is actually the first person to notice it, so she calls Jermaine's aunts for help. And after a few more hours with no sign of her, they start calling around hospitals, shelters, everywhere they can think of to try and track her down. But by the following day, June 17th, they are so sick with worry, because she still

• 11:06Payton Moreland?

  hasn't come home or answered, that they contact the Flathead Reservation's tribal police department. Now, here's where things start to kind of get complicated. Because the tribal police say that they can't do much because Jermaine's disappearance happened off of the reservation. It was in Missoula at the bars.

• 11:28Garrett Moreland?

  So then it would have to be...

• 11:29Payton Moreland?

  Yes, family need to go to the Missoula Police and file with them. Okay, so they call the Missoula Police who say, "Oh, you're gonna have to come down to the station in person to file this missing persons report."

• 11:42Garrett Moreland?

  Is that normal?

• 11:43Payton Moreland?

  Hmm, I mean, yeah, I think they probably do want to meet with you in person.

• 11:47Garrett Moreland?

  But they probably, they probably just didn't believe them.

• 11:49Payton Moreland?

  So on June 19th, the family make the hour and 15 minute drive down to Missoula to do exactly that.

• 11:56Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 11:57Payton Moreland?

  When they get there and actually file the missing persons report with Missoula Police, they immediately get the feeling that there is zero sense of urgency. And the family doesn't know if that's because Jermaine was over 18, so legally she can disappear without telling anyone, or because she had been bar hopping that night and drinking, so police aren't taking it seriously, or probably more likely because she was an indigenous woman from the reservation.

• 12:26Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 12:26Payton Moreland?

  While they speak with Missoula Police on June 19th, the police don't actually file the reports until the 20th, and then they don't sign a detective to her case until the 21st. Which like, if you know anything about missing persons cases,

• 12:42Garrett Moreland?

  The first 48 hours are the most crucial.

• 12:44Payton Moreland?

  Just to file the report and assign a detective is insane. And then, that detective goes on vacation. So he's in charge of her case.

• 12:52Garrett Moreland?

  What?

• 12:53Payton Moreland?

  And then he leaves on vacation. So her case just sits there with no one investigating it for another five days, until a different detective realizes, hey, we had this missing person report and like, literally none of us have looked into it.

• 13:06Garrett Moreland?

  It's interesting. I mean, I know, hmm, I don't know, I just, as a detective, uh, someone in law enforcement, wouldn't you feel? And, uh, look, I'm also aware of the amount of fluff that comes through in departments, right? Uh, like I'm understanding of that. But there's also a lot of real things that is not fluff, that is serious, that needs to be taken seriously. Wouldn't you feel guilty? Like, wouldn't you be like, dang, I should probably, I should probably check on this?

• 13:34Payton Moreland?

  I think the average person would, but I also think that this is an epidemic. This is very, this is something that happens often.

• 13:42Garrett Moreland?

  It's so insane to me.

• 13:43Payton Moreland?

  It is insane. So it's not actually until June 26th. This is almost 10 days after she has last been seen, that night, that the Missoula Police finally start questioning things about Jermaine.

• 13:57Garrett Moreland?

  10 days? It's too late. I mean, I know that sounds horrible, but it's too late. Like, it is too late.

• 14:03Payton Moreland?

  If there was any chance.

• 14:04Garrett Moreland?

  If there's any chance, it's gone now.

• 14:05Payton Moreland?

  It's so slim now.

• 14:07Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, it's messed up.

• 14:08Payton Moreland?

  So, the family isn't losing hope during all of this, though. In the meantime, in those 10 days, they had taken matters into their own hands. They had put up pictures, handed out flyers, anything to get the word out around the reservation, which is devastating. They also organized volunteer searches, but the reservation is 1.3 million acres of land, along a lot of mountains and flowing rivers. Plus, the last time Jermaine was seen was actually off the reservation, so the Community that her family is reaching out to is actually an hour away from where she was last seen. So where do you search? Unfortunately, this wasn't the first time a native woman had gone missing from the Flathead Reservation, though.

• 14:48Payton Moreland?

  So presumably, a lot of these people searching had actually combed these lands before.

• 14:54Garrett Moreland?

  Also, I just want to clarify, we're in 2018.

• 14:57Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 14:58Garrett Moreland?

  This isn't 1980s, it's in the 1990s, 2018.

• 15:03Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, we should know better by now.

• 15:04Garrett Moreland?

  Like, this is, it's insane.

• 15:05Speaker 04

  The mighty dollar. Once upon a time, it had a whole menu named after it. Now, no more. But $1 a day lets you add Progressive Renters Insurance to your auto insurance. Definitely something your younger self would roll their eyes at, but your current adulting self appreciates. Learn more at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers. Average premium cost based on Progressive Home data from 2025. Product and prices may vary by state.

• 15:31Payton Moreland?

  All right, guys, we're jumping into an ad, and I have to ask. Have you ever gone to a store for one thing and then walk out with something totally different? That's me every time I shop on Whatnot. And I'm not mad about it. I've gotten such cool, unique stuff that I didn't even realize I needed. And honestly, feels like I'm at the mall, but from the comfort of my own home when I'm shopping on Whatnot. Whatnot is the top destination for live shopping, which is wildly different from traditional e-commerce. Honestly, it is so fun. On Whatnot, you're connecting with actual, real sellers and other shoppers. It's like shopping with a friend. This is actually where Garrett gets all of his gaming cards, his collectible cards from. But they have way more than that.

• 16:14Payton Moreland?

  Makeup, perfume, clothes, handbags, jewelry. Honestly, just get on Whatnot, browse around, see what it's like, see what it's all about, and you'll understand my obsession. It's a great way to find new brands because sellers don't gatekeep. Garrett and I love Whatnot, and you will too. Download Whatnot today and get $20 off your first live purchase. Search Whatnot, spelled W-H-A-T-N-O-T, in the App Store. Sign up and take a shopping trip. Terms apply. So the search doesn't produce any results. There is still no sign of Jermaine, but the police have already been working on some theories about what happened when they got 10 days later, when they decided to start looking at it. For starters, they feel pretty confident

• 16:56Payton Moreland?

  that this wasn't a runaway situation, especially since, as we know, Jermaine is a mother. She left two little boys back at home. So that's when they jumped to other possibilities. Either Jermaine disappeared due to some drug-related crime, someone she knows is involved in her disappearance, maybe she was trafficked. At first, police say they have good reason to investigate the human trafficking angle because Detective Guy Baker, the one who is officially now taking on Jermaine's case, says they have some information about people coming from out of state into Missoula to traffic girls.

• 17:33Garrett Moreland?

  Holy crap.

• 17:34Payton Moreland?

  Now, from what I can tell, this was something they had come across before at the Missoula Police Station, and it's particularly because there is a major interstate that runs through the area by downtown Missoula. And as the Missoula County Deputy Attorney put it, they could be, quote, "swept away in an instant," which is why trafficking is a problem here. Especially with the lack of GPS signals and cell towers in the area, it makes it easy for people to kidnap someone and get them out of state before they can even make a phone call. Now, this is really all the information I have on the human trafficking theory, and I know that the police don't have much more than this either because they rule it out pretty early in the investigation. So it's the first thing they jump to, but they end up ruling it

• 18:19Payton Moreland?

  out, especially when they get a piece of evidence that shows what Jermaine was doing and who she was with on the night of her disappearance. So remember how I mentioned the last bar Jermaine was at, the Badlander Bar, had security cameras set up outside? It was basically pointed in an alleyway next to the bar. And on the night Jermaine went missing, she was seen talking to a group of people out there. And obviously, we know that one unidentified man that has been confirmed as the guy that was kind of following her around all night is there.

• 18:52Garrett Moreland?

  And I assume, I guess we'll get to it. Did the bar have cameras? Let's find out.

• 18:56Payton Moreland?

  So in this footage, I mean, if you're just basing it kind of off body language, it's almost as if Jermaine is kind of trying to shake that man that's following her, like she's trying to insert herself into other people, hoping that he gets the message that she's like not wanting to be with him. They are walking quickly behind her, but they can't really catch up with her pace. Now luckily, what the footage shows is a large group of people who saw Jermaine the night before she vanished. So these are people who might know the conversation she was having and who this mysterious guy was. So detectives head down to the Badlander and they start questioning anyone who might have seen Jermaine that night.

• 19:39Payton Moreland?

  And they find out that person that was seen following Jermaine around was her ex-boyfriend

• 19:45Garrett Moreland?

  Surprise.

• 19:46Payton Moreland?

  and father of her two kids.

• 19:47Garrett Moreland?

  Surprise.

• 19:48Payton Moreland?

  Michael. Now, from what I can tell, they don't get much context from these witness interviews, other than Michael's identity. But it's definitely enough for them to call him into the station for an interview.

• 19:58Garrett Moreland?

  That's ah.

• 20:00Payton Moreland?

  Now, Michael admits, yes, he was out with Jermaine that night. And after they left the bars, they got into his Dodge pickup truck. So this is more than police have learned this entire time. They now are getting from Michael where Jermaine went when she left the camera. He says he drove her three minutes down the street to a little grocery store called the Orange Street Food Farm. This is just before 1 a.m. Jermaine apparently told him she was meeting a friend named Cassidy, who lived right around the corner there, and she was planning to actually spend the night at Cassidy's house. So Michael drops her off and he says she hopped out and that was the last time he saw her.

• 20:43Payton Moreland?

  But when police look into this Cassidy person, They can't find anyone by that name that Jermaine knows, which is extremely suspicious for one very good reason. And it's because Michael and Jermaine had a pretty dark past. So when police start looking into their relationship, they find an old report from April 14th of 2013. It was filed in Sanders County, which the reservation is on just outside of Missoula. And according to these documents, Michael had punched Jermaine three times back in 2013 on that night.

• 21:17Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my gosh.

• 21:18Payton Moreland?

  So he pled guilty to the assault. He didn't serve any jail time. Instead, he was fined and given 40 hours of domestic violence treatment.

• 21:27Garrett Moreland?

  I do have to say, domestic violence is horrible. And Peyton and I the other day were streaming on Twitch and we were watching a bunch of like road rage moments. The amount of people who like can't control their anger and go straight to violence or straight to hitting.

• 21:45Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 21:46Garrett Moreland?

  There are so many people, they instantly, they get upset about something and it's punch, hit, violence, something along those lines. And it's just horrible.

• 21:56Payton Moreland?

  It's why teaching emotional regulation is one of the most important things you can.

• 22:01Garrett Moreland?

  Crazy, just going straight to violence? Like, no, we don't solve problems with violence. Like, end of story.

• 22:07Payton Moreland?

  Yeah. So he's also told that he's not allowed to possess any firearms. Okay. But this is just the tip of the iceberg. With such few consequences, the abuse continues. The following year in June or July of 2014, it happens again. This time Jermaine and Michael have a fight at her aunt's house. Michael throws her on the hood of a van, hits her four times in the face and head, and then tosses her on the ground and spits on her.

• 22:32Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 22:32Payton Moreland?

  He's arrested again, and from what I can tell, there is no real consequences. In November of that year, Jermaine calls the police again. Says Michael has grabbed her, stole her phone, and tossed it in some water. This is actually illegal. And again, falls under the category of assault because the offender damaged the victim's phone when they were trying to call for help. Only the police say once more, eh, there's not really much we can do. It's considered civil, not criminal.

• 22:58Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, okay.

• 23:00Payton Moreland?

  So we're obviously seeing a pattern here now and it keeps getting worse to the point where Jermaine isn't even trying to hide it anymore. In May of 2017, she posts a YouTube video about her relationship with Michael and she talks about how he's abusive and now he continues to pressure her to stay together or he's gonna go to court and try to get full custody of their kids. She says the last time she refused a kiss from him, Michael threw her against a pull-up bar and choked her.

• 23:24Garrett Moreland?

  What in the world is happening right now?

• 23:27Payton Moreland?

  Now, the worst incident might have been the one shortly after that post. Jermaine and Michael were driving home from a concert when apparently he pushed Jermaine out of his moving vehicle on Interstate 90. Now, Michael is arrested again and nothing happens, the charges are dismissed. Now, according to some sources, the couple does break up for good after this in 2017, but in early 2018, just a few months before Jermaine disappears, Michael follows through on an old promise and he decides to take Jermaine to court for custody of their two kids. Now, here's Michael.

• 24:09Payton Moreland?

  He is from a white family and honestly, he has a lot more resources than Jermaine's family. So he has a lawyer, Jermaine can't afford one, which is probably why a judge ends up ruling in his favor. He says Michael has residential custody, but Jermaine can have her kids Monday through Wednesday and then every other weekend.

• 24:29Garrett Moreland?

  I'm so mind blown. So you're telling me that he has all of these charges and not charges, just history of violence on his record, they can see when the cops are called, they can see all this, the judge can see all of this? And it's chosen to give him custody of the kids?

• 24:50Payton Moreland?

  Well, he's the one who has a lawyer. She showed up without one.

• 24:53Garrett Moreland?

  It's crazy though, it's a judge, like.

• 24:54Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 24:55Garrett Moreland?

  Let's look at the

• 24:56Payton Moreland?

  Well, and also, the judge says,

• 24:57Garrett Moreland?

  dang paperwork, man.

• 24:57Payton Moreland?

  The judge says, and because he's getting majority of custody, you also have to pay child support.

• 25:02Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my gosh.

• 25:04Payton Moreland?

  Eight hundred dollars a month is what she's ordered to pay. The one who showed up without a lawyer because she couldn't afford it.

• 25:09Garrett Moreland?

  I'm so pissed right now.

• 25:11Payton Moreland?

  So, all this to say.

• 25:13Garrett Moreland?

  But I'm not gonna be violent and I'm not gonna hit anything.

• 25:15Payton Moreland?

  The police are looking at all this and they're like, ooh, sheesh. The last person to be seen with Jermaine is Michael and there's an ugly history between the two of them. There's a lot of domestic abuse. But here's what police find after speaking with Michael. That Cassidy person that Michael said Jermaine brought up, that might have been a name that Jermaine really did give Michael at some point because she didn't want him to know where she was really going later that evening, which was to her new boyfriend's house, the one who lived just a few blocks from that Orange Street food farm. This is the same guy she seemingly changed her relationship status on Facebook for and his name was Jacob, who Jermaine was texting at the bar in the hours before she disappeared.

• 25:57Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 25:57Payton Moreland?

  So naturally, when police learn about Jacob, they question him as well. And he says he met Jermaine on a dating app. The two of them had a pretty strong connection, things were going really well. But he says he was actually out of town on the night Jermaine disappeared and he can prove it. He says, yeah, Jermaine and I were texting that evening. She asked if she could go stay at my apartment even though I was gone. And he said it was fine, but around 1 a.m. he called Jermaine to check on her, presumably to see if she got inside his apartment okay. He said the line rang a few times, then it seemed like someone purposely ignored the call and sent it to voicemail and he never heard from her again. So with Jacob's alibi, they're able to rule him out as a suspect pretty quickly. But he offers up something that puts the spotlight back on Michael.

• 26:39Payton Moreland?

  Jacob says Jermaine told her, the day before she vanished, she and Michael had been fighting again. He was yelling at her, asking about who she was dating, said he wanted to get back together, which would make sense why Jermaine could have lied to Michael that night and said she was staying with a person named Cassidy. Only police learned Jermaine, or at least Jermaine's cellphone, actually never made it into Jacob's apartment that night. When police start collecting data from Jermaine's cellphone, they find that the call Jacob made to her on the night she disappeared was silenced, just like he thought. And they also learned that between the hours of 2:00 a.m. and 10:00 a.m. that morning, her cellphone actually traveled back to the area near the Flathead Reservation, specifically to a place called Ivaro Hill.

• 27:22Payton Moreland?

  And the cell was pinging towers around there.

• 27:25Garrett Moreland?

  Crazy.

• 27:26Payton Moreland?

  And you know who else's phone was pinging those same towers at that same time in the middle of the night?

• 27:30Garrett Moreland?

  Who else's phone, babe?

• 27:31Payton Moreland?

  Michael's.

• 27:33Garrett Moreland?

  Surprise.

• 27:33Payton Moreland?

  And that's because he lives in this area. So Michael finds himself back in front of detectives because he says, "I dropped her off and she went to sleep at Cassidy's, but really, her cellphone silenced a call from her boyfriend and then traveled back, basically, to where Michael lives."

• 27:49Garrett Moreland?

  I love technology. I just love that everyone can get caught now with cellphones pinging, and it's amazing.

• 27:55Payton Moreland?

  So they're like, "Hey, Michael, uh, why did her phone ping at your house, basically, later that night?" And he's like, "Oh, uh, she left her phone in my car." And he's like, "I actually tried to go through her text messages when she left it, but I couldn't crack the code." When that happened, he said he decided to toss it out of his truck on Highway 12.

• 28:17Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 28:17Payton Moreland?

  So he's like, "She leaves it in my car. I try to open it up. I can't figure out the password, so I decided to just throw it out."

• 28:24Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 28:24Payton Moreland?

  He says he even remembers the mile marker. He says it was 94. Now, you gotta think, this is pretty suspicious for this young woman to forget her cellphone in her ex-boyfriend's car on the night she vanished. But to offer up where he left it down to the mile mark? That seems almost too good to be true, which it is, because when the police go to that mile marker, there's no cellphone. So in late June, officers pay a visit to Michael DeFrances's home in Ivaro Hill, where he presumably still lives with his parents. Because while Michael's not there, they do speak with his mother, and she says Jermaine has never been to their house, which feels kind of unlikely, considering they dated for years and shared two kids together. But she also says her son loved Jermaine. He wanted to get back together with her,

• 29:09Payton Moreland?

  which I suppose was her reason for thinking that he was innocent.

• 29:12Garrett Moreland?

  Dude.

• 29:14Garrett Moreland?

  I get it. I mean, I guess I get being a parent and trying to defend your kid. But there's no way she's never been to the house. Like, she's lying.

• 29:21Payton Moreland?

  You lie.

• 29:22Garrett Moreland?

  She's lying.

• 29:23Payton Moreland?

  Yeah. So, police actually decide to come back a week later with a search warrant. And while they comb the house for any sign of foul play or other personal property belonging to Jermaine, they don't find anything. And over the next few months, though,

• 29:40Garrett Moreland?

  Months?

• 29:41Payton Moreland?

  Police believe they know the area.

• 29:44Garrett Moreland?

  But they just can't find the body.

• 29:45Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, they're like, we think that this is probably where the evidence or the body is hidden. It's a pretty heavily forested area where Michael lives. There's a lot of wildlife. It's a place that covers hundreds of square miles, where an animal might get to the remains before any human would even come across them. Actually, using helicopters and aerial surveillance would be a waste of time because of how dense the brush is in this area. And while searching, they do find a lot of bones, but none of them are human. And police are like, listen, this is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. But after hearing the evidence, Jermaine's family feels confident that this is probably her final resting place, which is why they put up a billboard in the area. It's one with Jermaine in a baseball cap.

• 30:30Payton Moreland?

  It's a screen grab from one of her last social media posts that she made on the day she disappeared. And while police haven't officially ruled Michael DeFrance a suspect, they keep a close eye on him over the next few months. In October, they actually returned to his house with another search warrant. And this time, they find something that's a bit problematic for Michael. They discover a large collection of guns. Now, I don't know if they missed this the first time, or if this was some kind of strategy, because if you remember, ever since that 2013 charge for domestic abuse, Michael is not allowed to own any firearms. And cops pull a lot out of his house. I mean, seven different weapons.

• 31:10Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 31:11Payton Moreland?

  Tons of ammunition. And when they ask Michael if he knew that this was part of his probation, he's like, oh, I didn't really know that. I didn't know I was not supposed to have guns.

• 31:20Garrett Moreland?

  It's the all same, man.

• 31:21Payton Moreland?

  It also seems during this search, they find- Find something else with a team of cadaver dogs. They located several items that appeared to be bloodstained and those were sent to the crime lab. The problem is none of that DNA could be conclusively tied to Jermaine and they don't arrest Michael that day. From what I can tell, they just take away his weapons.

• 31:40Garrett Moreland?

  I, I don't know. I don't know. I'm surprised that they haven't been able to find anything yet, like more concrete.

• 31:47Payton Moreland?

  And with all of this happening, I mean, they could have arrested Michael for those guns.

• 31:52Garrett Moreland?

  For sure.

• 31:52Payton Moreland?

  They chose not to.

• 31:52Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, that, yeah.

• 31:53Payton Moreland?

  Maybe because they're thinking, we'll just arrest him for her disappearance.

• 31:56Garrett Moreland?

  I guess I'm pointing at the murder.

• 31:57Payton Moreland?

  Right.

• 31:58Garrett Moreland?

  Whatever happened here. Yeah.

• 32:00Payton Moreland?

  Hey guys, coming at you today with a sponsor that happens to be Mint Mobile. Remember being a kid around the holidays and anytime you would ask for something, mom would always say, wait until the holidays. Well, with Mint Mobile's holiday deal, there's no waiting. Right now, this second, all of their plans are $15 a month. And honestly, making the switch to Mint Mobile is so much easier than you would think it would be. So if you've been wanting to change your wireless, I am urging you right now to go check out Mint Mobile and just see what they offer. Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right with premium wireless for 15 bucks a month. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the

• 32:42Payton Moreland?

  nation's largest 5G network. You can even bring your current phone and your number. You can choose from three, six, or 12 month plans and say goodbye to monthly billing.

• 32:52Garrett Moreland?

  So what are you waiting for to get your new wireless plan for 15 bucks a month? Go to mintmobile.com/mwmh. That's mintmobile.com/mwmh. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com/mwmh.

• 33:06Payton Moreland?

  Upfront payment of $45 for three month, $90 for six month, or $180 for 12 month. Plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabyte. May slow when network is busy. Capable device required. Availability, speed and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com. Thanks to Rover for sponsoring today's show. If you have a dog like ours,

• 33:28Payton Moreland?

  You know, they can be quirky. Dogs can have their quirks. And so when you're trying to find someone to help you take care of them, that can be hard. But that is where Rover comes in. I love that I can list every single thing Daisy needs and they can help me find someone who matches that. You can browse sitter profiles to find a sitter who is a good fit for your pet with verified reviews from other pet parents to give you peace of mind. Schedule meet and greets for a chemistry check before they even help you with your dog or your pet. And you can get photo updates to stay connected while you're away. Honestly, it's important. It's important to have

• 34:08Payton Moreland?

  someone you trust to help you watch your pet children. And that is why we love Rover. Exclusively for new users of Rover, use code MYHUSBAND20 for a $20 discount off your first booking.

• 34:23Garrett Moreland?

  That's code MYHUSBAND20 for $20 off your first booking. Valid only on eligible bookings. Offer expires January 24, 2027. Terms apply.

• 34:33Payton Moreland?

  So because of this, Jermaine's case runs cold and her family and her community are left to continue the investigation pretty much on their own. More billboards are put up all over Montana calling for any information on Jermaine. The Confederated Salish and Kootenay Tribal Council increased the reward for that information to $10,000. And just when it seems like Jermaine's story might be another MMIW case that falls into obscurity, an Indigenous Cree reporter from the Okaneece First Nation in Saskatchewan, Canada, swoops in to make sure that that doesn't happen. And her name is Connie Walker and she creates a podcast called Stolen: The Search for Jermaine.

• 35:15Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 35:16Payton Moreland?

  Now Connie roots herself in Montana, traveling between the Flathead Reservation in Missoula, trying to unravel the mystery behind Jermaine's disappearance. And after the eight-episode series airs in March of 2021, it brings a lot of national exposure to the case, which also means a lot of pressure on local authorities because she's like, hey,

• 35:37Garrett Moreland?

  What's going on?

• 35:38Payton Moreland?

  What's going on?

• 35:39Garrett Moreland?

  Where is she?

• 35:40Payton Moreland?

  We're pretty confident we have a suspect.

• 35:41Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 35:42Payton Moreland?

  So in July 2021, after this podcast has gained a lot of eyes on it.

• 35:48Garrett Moreland?

  Everyone starts going hard.

• 35:49Payton Moreland?

  Police finally just arrest Michael.

• 35:51Garrett Moreland?

  Oh.

• 35:52Payton Moreland?

  I'm just like, it took this journalist to come in, which like, yes, we've seen happen before. When you put pressure on a case, police are gonna be more likely to try and do something about it. But it's just, it's sucky.

• 36:05Garrett Moreland?

  That's interesting. They arrest him because no evidence has really changed?

• 36:09Payton Moreland?

  Well, they don't arrest him for anything related to Jermaine. They decide to arrest him for possession of those firearms. That was three years after the fact.

• 36:16Garrett Moreland?

  Gosh, can you even do that? I mean, it's just insane. They're like, we'll just try to make everyone happy and arrest him for the firearms.

• 36:23Payton Moreland?

  And I'm not saying they need to arrest him for Jermaine's disappearance, because like you said, there's not much evidence. But just maybe, you know, fire the, up the investigation again.

• 36:32Garrett Moreland?

  Push a little harder, yeah, yeah.

• 36:33Payton Moreland?

  So he finally gets his day in court in April of 2023, and he is found guilty on four counts of firearms-related felony charges. And in September 2023, he is sentenced to 21 months in prison. He files an appeal that same day, and as far as I'm aware, Michael has yet to serve any real jail time as he awaits the results of his appeal.

• 36:51Garrett Moreland?

  Holy, I wanna say bad words. You're, I, this is gonna end. And there's gonna be, no one's gonna be charged for this.

• 37:01Payton Moreland?

  Even though she was last seen with Michael, a very domestic, abusive relationship.

• 37:07Garrett Moreland?

  They just don't wanna-

• 37:08Payton Moreland?

  His phone was still pinging in his car. He said he threw it out. They've never found the phone. They've never found the body. It was pinging back at his house.

• 37:17Garrett Moreland?

  So I think at this point, the reason they're not going to is because, one, it has national news, so it'd be hard to find a jury. Two, honestly, I don't think he'd be convicted, which is horrible and sad because I, personal Garrett's opinion, I think he did it.

• 37:33Payton Moreland?

  Allegedly.

• 37:34Garrett Moreland?

  Allegedly. Come sue me. I don't give a sh- anyways, that sucks.

• 37:40Payton Moreland?

  And meanwhile, those billboards of Jermaine, they remain along the roads and highways throughout parts of Montana. Just waiting for the moment that someone comes forward with more evidence, maybe a smoking gun in Jermaine's case, a weapon, DNA, a body. None of it has been found yet, which is why Michael DeFrance, or anyone else for that matter, has yet to even be named a suspect. In Jermaine's disappearance.

• 38:03Garrett Moreland?

  Wow.

• 38:04Payton Moreland?

  And also, if her case had been taken more seriously before 10 days had passed, if they had found the evidence of this peeing within those first couple of days, could the body have actually been on the property? Did he move it during those 10 days?

• 38:18Garrett Moreland?

  I was gonna say, he had 10 days to move, do whatever, hide.

• 38:21Payton Moreland?

  Get rid of evidence.

• 38:22Garrett Moreland?

  10 days is a long time to clean and hide and get rid of any evidence.

• 38:26Payton Moreland?

  But these are the devastating realities behind a lot of cases involving missing and murdered indigenous women. Jermaine's aunt, Valinda, hinted in an interview that she isn't exactly surprised by how the case has been handled. She said, quote, "MMIW isn't something that just started. It honestly has happened since colonization and we've all kept so quiet about it. I think the world is finally realizing what Native American go through. She vows to continue the fight for Jermaine and be the voice she no longer has. But really, I think that voice can be amplified. We might not be able to be boots on the ground, we might not be able to find Jermaine or solve any of these MMIW cases, but we can still draw attention to them. We can pass them on, we can put pressure on authorities.

• 39:10Payton Moreland?

  And honestly, that is probably our biggest responsibility. My biggest responsibility as a storyteller, a journalist, a podcaster, that is how I can help make a difference and you guys listening and talking about these cases, make a difference just doing that as well. However, if you do have any information regarding Jermaine's case, you could provide the missing piece by calling the Missoula Police Department at 406-396-3217. And that is the unsolved missing case of Jermaine.

• 39:45Garrett Moreland?

  Wow, I... It's crazy. I mean, he's gonna be out of prison soon.

• 39:50Payton Moreland?

  He's not even in prison yet. He appealed, he appealed that gun charge and they're still waiting for results, so he hasn't even served a day.

• 39:57Garrett Moreland?

  Which is insi... Oh my gosh. I don't know, I mean...

• 40:02Garrett Moreland?

  I it sucks that more evidence hasn't been found because I think at this point he wouldn't be convicted, which is horrible. I'm not saying that's okay. I'm just saying if I think about it logically from the justice system standpoint, I don't know if he'd be convicted. Do you? I guess it depends on the jury. It just depends.

• 40:18Payton Moreland?

  Well, also, I think that if we could get some

• 40:22Garrett Moreland?

  Attention.

• 40:22Payton Moreland?

  Some larger scale searches going on in the area by his house because unless he moved her during those 10 days, the phones were last pinging in that area.

• 40:33Garrett Moreland?

  The problem is he's had

• 40:34Payton Moreland?

  How long to change it?

• 40:36Garrett Moreland?

  To change it, to move, to do whatever. I mean,

• 40:38Payton Moreland?

  And again, there's so much wildlife there. The body could be scattered, like

• 40:43Garrett Moreland?

  And if there's no other evidence outside of that, which doesn't sound like there is, that's horrible. It sucks.

• 40:49Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, unless they find some DNA evidence of her blood in the house, which it sounds like they didn't.

• 40:55Garrett Moreland?

  And at this point, you've had years.

• 40:58Payton Moreland?

  It would have to probably be a confession.

• 41:00Garrett Moreland?

  Mom.

• 41:01Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 41:02Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, I hope she's listening to this. What a, what a

• 41:05Payton Moreland?

  Maybe she doesn't know, but she was living there.

• 41:07Garrett Moreland?

  I don't give, I'm pissed. I'm pissed.

• 41:10Payton Moreland?

  Honestly, I obviously don't have kids, but like if my son's girlfriend and baby mama, and I mean that in not a derogatory way, like legitimate baby mama, went missing and her phone was last pinging with my son's phone on or near my property, I will be sitting his little booty down and saying, talk.

• 41:34Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, no, it's not.

• 41:35Payton Moreland?

  Talk. Cause like, I still love you, but this is the right thing to do.

• 41:40Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 41:40Payton Moreland?

  All right, you guys. Thank you for listening to this case today and we will see you next time with another episode. I love it.

• 41:47Garrett Moreland?

  And I hate it.

• 41:48Payton Moreland?

  Goodbye.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  You know that feeling when too many things fall through the cracks? Monday.com was built for that gap. The AI work platform where people and agents work side by side to deliver more together. Create your first Monday agent today at monday.com.