Tracy McGrady NBA Legend & Hall of Famer Talks Penny Hardaway, Kobe & Heartbreak

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast FOLLOW HAPPY DAD: https://www.instagram.com/happydad FIND HAPPY DAD: https://www.happydad.com/find NBA legend and Tracy McGrady welcomes Ryan, Channing and Fred to Houston for a conversation covering his hall of fame career, brotherhood with Kobe and the darkest times he experienced on and off the court. Sharing tales from his storied career and some of the All-Time greats he played with or met along the way that helped him mold his on court play from Michael Jordan to Penny Hardaway to Kobe Bryant to his coaches to his teammates. Being ranked as the best player in the nation at 18 years old, adjusting to money and fame was part of the transition process. Never winning a championship, Tracy's career was defined by his hall of fame talent and one of the best wings to every play the game known for his shooting skills, scoring, dunking and aggressive defense. In an emotional moment, reflecting back on his career, Tracy opens up about the struggles he faced waiting his entire life and working so hard to be apart of a championship team and how his injury kept him from being apart of the run, ultimately sending Tracy to a very dark place where he didn't talk to anyone for months. Tracy describes the moment he realized he wasn't the player he once was capable of being due to injury and age, and the blows he took to his ego leading him down a path of despair. Being selected to the Hall Of Fame is the one thing that helped make all the painful moments and losses suffered along the way less of his focus and learned to relish in the moments of his success and understand the power of his legacy. Tracy's proudest moment has always been earning the respect of his peers and the guys he spent his life playing along side, especially a forever impactful statement from one in particular...the last interview with Kobe Bryant when he shared that the best player he ever faced was Tracy McGrady. Our partnership with DraftKings continues and special offers to check out for this wknd's football games. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY)1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL/IN/LA/MI/NJ/PA/TN/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXT STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/KS/NH), 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), visit OPGR.org (OR), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA).21+ (18+ NH/WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/KS/LA(select parishes)/MI/NJ/NY/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. Void in ONT. Valid 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min $5 pregame moneyline bet. Bet must win. $200 issued as eight (8) $25 free bets. Sponsored by DK. Ends 11/20/2022 11:59 PM ET. Eligibility restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.draftkings.com/footballterms.#1 Rated Sportsbook App based on Eilers&Krejcik (2Q22). Product Analysis: Testing, Scoring, and Ranking U. S. Sports Betting Apps Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 0:11Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Semaglutide injection, 2.4mg a GLP-1. Call 1-8334-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 0:30Ryan Clark?

  I felt some type of way, Chan, because they FaceTimed me sweating.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  First of all, I was trying to get you at the crib.

• 0:37Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, they wanted me to go hoop. But they's like, "Hey, we gonna go hoop." Wait, hold on. How we jump right into your sport? You know what I'm saying? Like, let's go hit a baseball. Or let's go do some things that we don't...

• 0:48Speaker 02

  What you mean? Boy, that's what I do.

• 0:50Ryan Clark?

  You pitched a baseball, Tracy.

• 0:53Speaker 02

  Listen here...

• 0:54Ryan Clark?

  You ain't step up to the plate. You ain't hit the curve.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  Right. My best sport is baseball, bro. Basketball is my third sport.

• 1:05Ryan Clark?

  Tracy, that's a lie.

• 1:06Speaker 02

  You better at baseball than basketball.

• 1:09Ryan Clark?

  T-Mac, you're a Hall of Fame basketball player.

• 1:12Speaker 02

  My best sport was baseball, bro. If you...

• 1:17Ryan Clark?

  Hey, man.

• 1:18Speaker 02

  Listen, bro.

• 1:19Ryan Clark?

  We just started too early. We just started the show too early. Mac came on here with heaters, telling me his stories. This man is one of the greatest scorers in basketball history. And he goes, "I'm a better baseball player." That's like Tom Brady coming to me and be like, "Honestly, I'm a better golfer than I was quarterback."

• 1:39Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 1:40Ryan Clark?

  No, you're not.

• 1:42Speaker 02

  The world tells you what you are. I love when I'm doubted.

• 2:08Ryan Clark?

  Welcome to The Pivot, man. You really need no introduction. T-Mac, to all of us who know but Tracy McGrady, seven-time All-Star, seven-time All-NBA, 2017 Hall of Fame inductee. I mean, your resume, man, it precedes you, but also the respect... That people like us have for what you were able to do in different places, on different teams with different supporting cast, man. It was absolutely phenomenal. For all the people who watch the show, man, we appreciate you. Draft Kings, happy that, our sponsors, thank you so much. We got Freaky Freddy sometimes, Freddie Flowers on most.

• 2:48Speaker 02

  Yes, sir, Freaky Freddy.

• 2:49Ryan Clark?

  Channing is definitely-

• 2:50Speaker 02

  They only called me Freaky Fred because I was a freak of nature. It ain't got nothing to do with nothing else.

• 2:55Ryan Clark?

  Nah, he nasty.

• 2:56Speaker 02

  You was. Nah, man. I'm just a good old wholesome Florida boy like T-Mac.

• 3:02Ryan Clark?

  Hey, like, hey, man, but like Freddie T always says, man, anybody can podcast, but not everybody can pivot. And this is truly a big pivot for us because T-Mac has already started lying. You know, a lot of times, we've used this show, we've used this show to let people be vulnerable and, and open. And it seems that when they sit down with us, the honest, doesn't the honesty come out, Chan? Like, you know, we've seen so many people, Michael Beasley, Shaquille O'Neal, like, they sit down, man, and we get down to like the real heart of who they are. T-Mac started lying. He started lying from the jump. This man- Walked in the door lying. This man sat down. This man just sat down and told us that he was, that basketball, wait.

• 3:47Ryan Clark?

  He didn't say it was his second sport, though.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  Third.

• 3:49Ryan Clark?

  He said ba- T-Mac, what's your first two sports?

• 3:53Speaker 02

  Football, basketball, baseball and football, bro.

• 3:57Ryan Clark?

  You, you would get it-

• 3:58Speaker 02

  Right now, I can go on the football field on one knee and throw 60 yards, bro. Easily. Easily, right now.

• 4:10Speaker 02

  I'd go out right now and throw 80 plus on a mound. Baseball.

• 4:15Ryan Clark?

  Okay, so here's my other question. T-Mac, here's my other question, though. Right now, if I set you at the top of the key and just told you, shoot a basketball, though, would you not be better at that than you are doing those other two things you just said?

• 4:28Speaker 02

  It's natural. All three of them is natural. That's what I'm trying to tell you, it's, it's natural, God-given ability, bro. I'd do that easily.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  Right now, I could have not played baseball for, I didn't play baseball from my junior year to 2013. Right, that time space, I never, I didn't play baseball. Bro, I went out there, I was throwing 85, 88.

• 4:57Ryan Clark?

  Your cousin, it was your cousin CJ that you said that,

• 5:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:00Ryan Clark?

  that taught you to pitch.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:02Ryan Clark?

  Right, and then, and he passed, so that, it was kinda him passing, and you said, "I wanna go."

• 5:06Speaker 02

  That, right.

• 5:07Ryan Clark?

  Tell us a little bit about that.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  So, my, my uncle CJ, when I was younger.

• 5:11Ryan Clark?

  Okay, I got you.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  Uncle, cousin, I mean, he grew up in the same household. Um, he used to set up two pillows for me on our couch. And I, he used to have me throw, that was my strike zone, he used to throw the ball right through there. And that's how I got it started. I started playing baseball at five years old. I didn't play basketball, bro, until I was like nine, 12 years old. I hated basketball. I played football, I started at eight. You know, little league football, you know, down in Florida, that's, that's what we do. I tell you, that's, like, that's our thing. And, you know, for baseball, though, I played every single year. And it was a natural, I remember I was eight years old when I first started pitching, and the coach was like, you know, he lined all of us up, "I want you to run to a place where you feel like, you know, you wanna, you wanna play that position." I ran straight to the pitcher's mound.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  And from that point on, eight years old, bro, I was a pitcher. And it was just natural, right? Natural. Nobody taught me to, to throw a curveball and all that, but I had the fundamentals down from my uncle to be able to have the accuracy to throw strikes. Why are you a basketball Hall of Famer? What, when did you have to choose? Because if you, if you real, as you saying you real. I was real. Everybody in my hometown know I was better baseball player, because when I, when I was a junior, right, I had some problems with my arm. Right, and baseball was really on the back burner, because I started becoming so good in basketball.

• 6:37Speaker 02

  And then, being that my name was, you know, a household name around the area, not outside of Polk County where I grew up, but in that, in that rim, I was the, I was the coldest thing around there. So I felt like I'm seeing all these guys on a national publication being ranked. I'm like, "Bro, how do I get there?" And out of God's grace, a dude that was watching me from, that, that was affiliated with Adidas, came down, I was playing spring football, about to be the quarterback for my high school team. This man came down and took me off the football field. He was like, yo, been watching you. If you want to be affiliated with Adidas, you gotta stop playing football. I stopped playing football. Basketball is my concentration.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  And I took off after my junior year and went to North Carolina. It was basketball from there.

• 7:26Ryan Clark?

  So didn't you go to like a A B C D camp too? And that was kind of like when people started, started to notice you? Who all was at that camp? And what was it about the way you played and the things you did there? That took you from, you know, like the locally known big time athlete to a guy that eventually goes straight to the league?

• 7:45Speaker 02

  So you know what, man? It's all about opportunity, bro. You know, like nothing changed with me. It was just the opportunity presented itself. So after my junior year, that's when the guy presented the A B C D camp for me. And this was where all the like top national high school guys are playing. And all I kept hearing when I got there is Lamar Odom. He was ranked number one, right? He was like ranked number one and ranked number two. But he was a 6'10" point guard, 6'10", 6'11". I'm like, god damn. I ain't never seen that, you know? Back then, if you was the tallest cat on your team, they gonna make you the center.

• 8:19Ryan Clark?

  Real tall, that's real, yeah.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  So I'm like, damn, 6'10" point guard, I gotta see this. Cause I'm 6'7", 6'8" at the time. I got, you know, point guard skills. I ain't 6'10", I never seen that. So he was the first cat I seen, I played against. And he was cold, bro. I was like, god, nice, bro. So I held my own against him. But going into that, it's like, bro, this is what I've been waiting on. This is an opportunity that I've been waiting. They had to pull teeth to get me into this camp. I was the last guy entering, entering this camp. Had the number 175 jersey that they gave me, like the last cat in. And, bro, nobody ain't know who I was. Like, I was just missed, I was all out of place.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  Didn't know what the hell was going on at this camp. But got there and red shot. You know what I'm saying? Came out of that camp to be the ranked number one player in the country. Off of one summer.

• 9:15Fred Taylor?

  It's crazy. I was reading that. I was reading that as well. You're going from 175 to 1.

• 9:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:21Fred Taylor?

  But you mentioned Odom. Your task was to shut down the number one guy. That's how you got on the scene.

• 9:27Speaker 02

  He was the target. He was the target because I kept hearing about him. I didn't care about nobody else. I want him. Like, he's the dude I want. Because y'all, if he's getting all this write-up and all the publications and I'm seeing him, you know, everywhere. And all this, you know, ESPN and all these writers, you know, ranking these players, and he's at the top of the list? I want him.

• 9:54Ryan Clark?

  You know, that's crazy. Chan, especially when we have football players, his question is always about a dog. Right? Like, that certain mentality that make you go get somebody. And, and you know, T-Mag, you've played other sports, but you know dudes that play football and do other things. They like, we watch basketball, and they're like, oh, man, basketball players soft. Like, so-and-so hurt his shoulder and he got carted off in a dang wheelchair. Like, what's wrong with your legs? You know what I'm saying? Like, I see dudes rolling on the ground, and I'm like, oh, man, what happened to him? And he get up and they pop his finger back and plays. I'm like, what they got to do with your feet?

• 10:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 10:26Ryan Clark?

  You know? But I think when we, when you think of superstar players, especially superstar scorers, right? You don't think defense. You don't think, I want to go out here and show these people that I'm gonna check Lamar Odom, the number one player in the country. What, what was it in you that said, this is how I'm gonna get on the scene?

• 10:46Speaker 02

  Upbringing, bro. You know what I'm saying? Like, I grew up in, in Central Florida, where I grew up. It was the probably worst drug-infested neighborhood, you know, in that area. So grandmother was a janitor, right, at my elementary school. Mom was a housekeeper at Disney, right? That was my motivation. My grandmother waking up every morning, 5 o'clock in the morning, going to be a janitor. And my mom doing the same, driving to Orlando. My motivation. You know what I mean? So being that I grew up in that type of environment, the shit that I seen every day and was around every day, right? And...

• 11:29Speaker 02

  The, the, the livings of my condition and seeing my grandmother and how she was grinding and my mom.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  Those conditions, it, it programmed me to, to want, uh, better.

• 11:40Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  And that's when the grind, it, it, it was a non-stop grind, bro. Like, that was my focus, you know what I'm saying? And I knew how to compartmentalize, hang it out with my friends, but also going to get this work.

• 11:53Channing Crowder?

  Bro, you was an ISO guy.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  Well, no, I, I had a little bit of that.

• 11:59Channing Crowder?

  Now, a little bit? Shit, especially we got to Orlando now, them, them Toronto years, yeah, you was a system player. You were Hall of Famer off ISO. Like, wha- what is that like when you know, in a game, you know? When they pass this ball in, they about to give it to me, and bro, I done seen you before. I watched you play all when I was a kid. You get them up, that, get out the way. What's that feel like, knowing that if you don't score, this team can't run?

• 12:26Speaker 02

  Man, you know what? That's, that's years and countless days of playing in the park. I grew up playing in the park. I was always the youngest, playing against, you know, guys in my neighborhood or around the area that was always older. So, the toughness came from that, uh, the skill development came from that, the competitive nature came from that. Cause they ain't take no pity, you know what I'm saying? When you playing on the blacktop against, you know, guys that are older and that, you know? And, and some of these guys out there got game.

• 12:57Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  Like, these, these dudes are nice, and they'll knock you on your ass and they ain't trying to help you, you know, get off the asphalt. So, learning and going through that, that shit was easy. Cause the work was being, the work was put in, you know what I'm saying? So, when, when you get to the NBA, it's open, it's, it's open, right? I mean, it's, it's endless opportunities for one-on-one situations.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  Court's big, you know, I know who's gonna help, who's not gonna help when I'm driving, when I got somebody ISO. I study these guys so I know what moves to make, what to do on certain guys, how to attack certain dudes. It's just being a student in the game, but that shit was easy because the work was already put in.

• 13:43Channing Crowder?

  What about that pressure of being the number one scorer, knowing that if you, that you have, you have, bro, you have the ball.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  True.

• 13:50Channing Crowder?

  Or your team's gonna lose.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:51Channing Crowder?

  Flat out.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  It's my job, bro. You know what I'm saying? It's my job. I can't complain about that. And at some point, shit, that's what I wanted. So I got what I wanted, you know what I mean? And I, you know, you just gotta do what you could do. I was prepared for it. It's hard as shit. I ain't gonna lie about that, you know, to do that year in and year out, you know, in the playoffs, averaging 43 minutes out of 48 minutes, and you gotta score, you gotta facilitate, you gotta defend, like all of that. And that's why I think my body broke down because, you know, for many years, I had to do that for my team. Some nights I had to score 40 for us to win. There was a lot of nights I had to do that for us to win. You know, just, it was my job.

• 14:34Channing Crowder?

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• 15:19Channing Crowder?

  That's ziprecruiter.com/draftkings. ZipRecruiter.com/draftkings. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire.

• 15:30Fred Taylor?

  T Mac, let's pivot back to go from 175 to 1. The number one player in the country going into your senior year. The mindset, the confidence that you developed in, right? And then to go from there to numerous college offers. You say you was gonna consider going to Kentucky, but you had the very fortune of going straight out of high school to Toronto. What are the pressures to be drafted straight out of high school, to go and play amongst men? Now you're a teenager going into the facility. What are those pressures like?

• 16:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, 18 years old. And it was a difficult transition because I got drafted and went to Toronto. I'm from Florida, bro. I mean, the coldest it get for us sometimes is probably 40 degrees.

• 16:24Speaker 05

  That's blistering.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  We want to close the school down when it's that cold. So to go to this place I've really never heard of, didn't know what to expect. I mean, living on the lake, below zero temperatures. Man, legal age was 19 up there. And luckily, I went to a team that had some young players. Damon Stoudamire was probably in his second year, I think. Marcus Camby was in his second year. Damon was in his third year. So I had some younger guys that I kind of could relate to. But having that pressure of having to be something right away, I didn't have that on me.

• 17:12Fred Taylor?

  But you had the pressures of having to fit in and be accepted. You were the most talented player probably on the roster.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 17:20Fred Taylor?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 17:22Speaker 02

  But the pressure that I had was put on me from my coach. Because if you drafted a high school kid, and obviously, I'm not gonna come in and know the game right away. For a coach to tear me down at the age of 18, that was the pressure.

• 17:46Speaker 02

  Playing the game was easy for me, you know, because I'm athletic, I'm 6'8", I can handle the ball, I already got a feel for the game and I'm used to playing with professionals. When I was back in North Carolina, I used to go to the Tar Heels and play against some guys all the time. I used to go to Duke and play with them guys all the time. So, playing the game, I knew how to play the game, it's just really understanding how to be a true professional. How to prepare myself every day. But, coach to tear me down, saying this and saying that to the media, and I'm reading and hearing this stuff, I'll be out of the league in three years. Like, bro, give me some structure, there was no structure for me, right? So, that's why it was, it was a rocky rookie season, man, because of the pressures that, you know, was put on me from my coach.

• 18:31Speaker 02

  But, when I got out there and played, shit, it was, the game was just an easy flow because I had a feel for the game.

• 18:38Ryan Clark?

  I'm listening to you talk about transitioning to the game. You mentioned the way your mother worked, you mentioned your grandmother. When I think of an 18-year-old transitioning to be a professional, I do understand the strains of doing your job. There's also strains of living your life, right? When, when I was 18, bro, I was a, I was a freshman at LSU. Where I could make mistakes, I could live, I could do all these different things because I had time.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:07Ryan Clark?

  You almost don't have time when you are in your position. You're in Toronto, you're away from Florida, all those things. What was the life transition like for you?

• 19:14Speaker 02

  I had a different mindset though, bro, you know what I'm saying? When I was, I go back to my senior year, when I left Florida to move up to North Carolina, I stayed in the house with 12 other guys, you know what I mean? And, this is me being number one player in the country at this time, right? So, I know in this house, you know, some of these guys, you know, have a problem with me being at this list because they've been there before. They, they've been here before I even got there, but I come in and I take their place of, of, you know, being that guy on the mountaintop and, and everybody is praising and talking about, right? Took a little bit of their shine away.

• 19:52Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 19:52Speaker 02

  So, I understand that, you know, what's going on, what's being said. But again, my mindset is different. Dog, we, our house was probably 10, 15 minutes away from North Carolina Central.

• 20:07Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Their ratio was like 11 to 1, it was crazy. Crazy, right? Crazy.

• 20:14Ryan Clark?

  You like that, huh?

• 20:15Speaker 02

  Hey, listen, crazy.

• 20:17Ryan Clark?

  You're in his area, not too much, be careful, dog.

• 20:21Speaker 02

  So you got Durham, you got Duke right here, you got North Carolina, Tar Heels right here, and you got NC State, so I'm surrounded by all these colleges. So my teammates on their free time, these guys was on these campuses. Me, I'm down in the basement, I'm watching the game, I'm studying, right? So I'm locked in, I never partake in none of that. You know what I mean? So my mindset was on a whole nother level because I wanted to get somewhere and I had, you know, my motivation, I told you, my mom, my grandmom is back, back home on their grind. So when I got to the league, again, I'm not one to, to, to go out like that. But when it shifted for me is when the coach, you know, started making all these comments and I started getting frustrated and as an 18, I'm like, man, fuck this shit, man.

• 21:06Speaker 02

  So I started, you know, hanging out. Again, I'm, I'm not even supposed to be out, although in Toronto, the legal age is 19. So I'm out in the city enjoying and, and realizing, oh my God, Toronto is an amazing city.

• 21:20Ryan Clark?

  I got homeboys that would get Victory Monday in Pittsburgh and catch a flight to Toronto.

• 21:26Channing Crowder?

  Whenever I played at Buffalo, we'd go across the border. We had to go, we had to go see that Toronto now.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, Toronto's a dope city. So I started hanging out a little bit more in Toronto. Uh, but luckily, man, and thank God, you know, another shift came when the actual coach got fired and my assistant coach took over, Butch Carter, who was Chris Carter, receiver, that was his brother. He took over, had some structure, willed me in a little bit and, you know, that's when I started taking off and, and, you know, excelling and becoming that player I wanted to be.

• 21:59Fred Taylor?

  Did the real fun start in 99 after Golden State trade events? I mean, 98 after Golden State trade events to the team?

• 22:07Speaker 02

  Listen, bro. Fun ain't even a word, though. You know what I'm saying? Because at that time, we went from like Damon Stoudamire, you know, Marcus Camby, some young cats, to Charles Oakley, Dell Curry, Muggsy Bogues, Dee Brown, Kevin Willis, Antonio Davis. Oh, and me and Vince, bro, we was the little brother. We was the little brother, so, yeah, talking about fun, oh, yeah. Yeah, we had a great time. We had a great time.

• 22:39Channing Crowder?

  But what is that like, bro? Being 18 years old and get, what was it, 12 million Adidas gave you?

• 22:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, 12, 12 and 6.

• 22:47Channing Crowder?

  They gave me 1 million and I went crazy. But I was already 21. You was 18 with 12 million dollars. What was that like?

• 22:56Speaker 02

  Shit, it was life-changing, bro. That's what you work for, too.

• 23:00Channing Crowder?

  But, but you know what, bro? You could buy anything you want.

• 23:04Speaker 02

  They can buy the whole Polk County.

• 23:06Channing Crowder?

  Yeah. Nah, man, it was...

• 23:10Speaker 00

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 23:21Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Someaglutide injection, 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-8334-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 23:40Speaker 02

  I can't lie, man. I mean, it was an amazing thing, bro. And the first thing I did was take care of my mom and my grandma and my dad, you know what I'm saying? I took care of all three of them. But, you know, I received my first check. It was like $500,000. And I wanted it in cash. I remember I was in my room, bro, upstairs. And I just threw all that money on the bed, bro, and just waddled in the bed, just rolling around in this shit. I come in, I'm like, damn, dog.

• 24:10Channing Crowder?

  You rode around with somebody else? Or you was by?

• 24:12Speaker 02

  Come on, man.

• 24:14Channing Crowder?

  I'd have rode around with somebody else.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  I just, nah, I was just being $500,000, making love. That's it.

• 24:21Fred Taylor?

  Was it in Canadian dollars? Like, how does that part of it work?

• 24:24Speaker 02

  Nah, no, no, this is, no, this is US. This is when I was in North Carolina. This is before I went to Toronto. Oh, this is before I got drafted.

• 24:32Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, no, I'm thinking ahead. I was thinking about, I eventually wanted to get to that part, how you guys get paid being an NBA team in Toronto. You know, how does that part?

• 24:41Speaker 02

  They converted, yeah.

• 24:43Fred Taylor?

  Oh, they just converted?

• 24:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it got converted, yeah.

• 24:45Channing Crowder?

  What do they have, loonies?

• 24:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, loonies and tunies.

• 24:48Channing Crowder?

  Really? And they'll pay you loonies in Canada?

• 24:51Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, I mean, shit, yeah. You gotta spend that money up there.

• 24:56Channing Crowder?

  I know, that was a good question.

• 24:57Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, I'm trying to figure out. I wanna know how, you know, how does that happen? Because in the NFL, we don't necessarily.

• 25:02Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yeah, now, we played in London. We, they gave us shekels or something like that.

• 25:08Fred Taylor?

  What is wrong with you, bro?

• 25:09Channing Crowder?

  Is it shekels?

• 25:10Fred Taylor?

  Pounds.

• 25:10Channing Crowder?

  They didn't pay you in pounds, Channing, you got the same check. But you get paid where you're at.

• 25:16Fred Taylor?

  You been locked up?

• 25:16Channing Crowder?

  You get taxed where you at. I've been locked up.

• 25:18Fred Taylor?

  Okay.

• 25:19Channing Crowder?

  Yeah. You, you, you, you a straight-headed guy. I'm a little bit off the edge.

• 25:26Channing Crowder?

  We got paid in pounds.

• 25:29Ryan Clark?

  Hey, Mac, to go from, you know, and I, I guess, I still remember Vince's dunk contest. And, you know, obviously, you were a part of that, and...

• 25:39Speaker 02

  Unfortunately.

• 25:40Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, you were a part of that. But to go from that guy who we were just learning about, the athleticism was, was just starting to show, to the guy you become in Orlando, you know? Did, did you always feel that was the shot you needed? And when Orlando, when you became a part of the Magic, was that part of their conversation with you? Like, we know what you're capable of, and that Toronto wasn't necessarily the place you got to show it, but we believe that you could be X, Y, and Z, and that's kinda when you became the star.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  They didn't know.

• 26:17Ryan Clark?

  Really?

• 26:18Speaker 02

  No. They didn't know. What I did in Toronto, in Orlando, they didn't know. No one knew that. No one knew that, right? I didn't show, I, I showed that I was athletic. I showed I was skilled. But that shit that was in Orlando was on a whole another level, bro. Like, I was doing shit that nobody did, you know, since Bob McAdoo days. You know what I mean?

• 26:46Speaker 02

  I was a third will. Mine was supposed to be Tim Duncan and Grant Hill. And then me, right? Tim Duncan, because, and this allegedly, didn't sign because Doc Rivers wouldn't allow your spouse to fly on the plane for role games. That's why he didn't sign, allegedly. I've heard of that. Grant Hill even told that story.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  And we all know what happened to G. Hill. You know what I mean? So it was like, here you go, bro. You sign. Now, I signed the biggest contract from a guy that came off the bench was a max deal. So I was the first to do that. And it's like, you know, Grant Hill is out. Looking at you like, bro, you gotta carry this franchise. So the pressure was on. Guess we ain't gonna crack. Had to go put in the work, you know? And I'm not even gonna lie, I surprised myself on what I was able to accomplish in terms of scoring. So I thought I was gonna be like, you know, Scottie, Scottie Pippen, 20 points, you know, 6'7" rebounds, 6'7" assists.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  But not 26, average 32.

• 28:02Fred Taylor?

  How much of that, though, the motivation in that came from being close to home? You're back in Florida, back in Orlando, very close to home. The guy who wore number one before you in Orlando, we all know what he stood for. You know what I'm saying? Penny Hardaway. How much of having Penny, well, not replacing Penny, but wanting to be the best number one or Magic player ever? How much of that was motivation and influence?

• 28:28Speaker 02

  So, you know, growing up in central Florida and, you know, when Penny came to town, because I watched Penny at Memphis State. And when we got Penny.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  Penny became my idol. Penny became my inspiration. Because I saw myself in Penny. And when I had the opportunity to put on that jersey, I couldn't let my guy down. Because when I tell you, bro, you couldn't say nothing negative to me about Penny Hardaway. Like, that was my Michael Jordan. Like, that motherfucker was cold. Oh, man. Bro, he had it all. You know what I mean? The swag, just everything about Penny. I just love. And I couldn't let my guy down. So that was my motivation. And that's why I wore number one. Like, my dog put it, he put it down in his jersey. I seen it in person. You know what I mean?

• 29:26Speaker 02

  I remember going to a playoff game when they was playing Miami. And Penny dropped 42 that night. And I went to his house. Now, the first time I met Michael Jordan, I was in high school. They were playing in the playoffs against Atlanta. MJ just killed them. So I'm in the back, you know? Somehow, my coaches, they pulled some strings and got me in the back. So I'm back there. Scottie comes out. Rodman comes out. You know? Moments later, MJ come walking out, bro. And he was glowing, dog.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  I said, damn.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  He glowing, bro. And it was the same. I went to Penny's house after that game, man. And he just had that same effect on me. I was like, that's my guy, bro. I ain't know what to say. But to be in his presence just did everything for me. And then even when I got drafted, like, I used to call Penny. He used to take my calls all the time. So we forever had that bond. And I still talk to him to this day. But that was my motivation, man. And I had to put it down for my guy.

• 30:27Ryan Clark?

  Man, it's crazy to hear you mention those names. Like, even me sitting here with you, I ain't gonna lie, like, I still fan out about having this job. You know what I mean? When I hit Gerard, I was like, hey, man, you think you can give me T-Mac number? I was like, you know, text him first and ask him. But I like it, you know what I mean? And like, sitting across from you, I'm remembering moments. And I was like, God, this dude was different. But to hear you talk about MJ and hear you talk about Penny, you have that same sort of reverence for them. My favorite basketball player of all time is Kobe Bryant.

• 31:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:00Ryan Clark?

  And anytime I get an opportunity on this show to hear stories, whether they've been told or not, I just want them to be told on our platform. I was mad at you for like... Ten seconds one time, right? You come down, you hit Kobe with the bink bink.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:16Ryan Clark?

  My dog tripped.

• 31:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:18Ryan Clark?

  Right? Kobe tripped a little bit, you hit the jumper. I was like, alright, now I gotta hate T Mac forever.

• 31:24Speaker 02

  Oh, he came back.

• 31:25Ryan Clark?

  Take us through, man, what it's like after you hit him with it? Then Kobe comes down, that's the dunk, slap the backboard, get the T.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  So, me and Kobe used to go at it, right? I mean, to take you even back, like, that was my brother. You know what I mean? I think I was nineteen, Kobe was twenty, you know? When he was still living with his parents, I, you know, I used to go out there, I used to stay with him. You know what I mean? Me and Kobe would sit in his room, he'll watch all these home videos of MJ, watch karate flicks. Like, Kobe was different, bro. I mean, just different than any other nineteen or twenty year old guy that I've ever come across. Very intelligent, I mean, just, he had it all. And, you know, so we had that thing.

• 32:16Speaker 02

  And we took a trip to Paris. And we, you know, had a great time over there. So, we were competitive, you know, all the time. And when I started becoming into my own as a basketball player, he noticed that. And then you got the barbershop talk. Who's better, T Mac or Kobe, right? We the best two wings at that time. So Kobe take heed to all that, he listened to all that stuff. So he wanna go out and prove a point, so do I, right? So every time we faced each other, it was a battle, man. And it was like, what y'all need to do is just, everybody just get the hell off the court. And let me and this dude just go at it. Because that's what it was.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  You know, I come down, I hit him with something, boom boom, you know, make him fall, make the jumper. He'll come down. Now, that exact same play, when he came down and dunked down there, dunked on my whole team, my job is to send Kobe baseline, right? Don't let Kobe go to the middle. So send baseline, help's supposed to come. Help didn't come quick enough.

• 33:21Speaker 05

  He's so, he's so.

• 33:24Speaker 02

  Help him come quicker though, man. He dunked, yeah, you could tell, like, he was mad as hell.

• 33:28Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  That he fell, cuz he smacked the backboard so hard off of that dunk, but, I mean, it was, you know, for, for Kobe, man, it, it just, it brought the best out of you as a basketball player that you didn't know you had inside of you, cuz you know this dude is built different, right? He's, he's built different, and you know, he's gonna come at you every single play, he's just relentless. But you gotta match that, and if you don't match that, you gonna have a long ass night. And I loved it. I, I, I relished those opportunities.

• 34:00Fred Taylor?

  Kobe had a 20-plus year career, and in an interview, he was quoted as saying, "You are the toughest opponent he had ever faced." He's played numerous players over that time. Like, what do you think when he says that?

• 34:15Speaker 02

  It, um, it just, it validates me as, you know, certified hooper. You know what I mean? Regardless of what anybody says in terms of what I didn't accomplish. For him to state that, just lets me, I was that dude.

• 34:31Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 34:32Speaker 02

  Right? And, no, I didn't win no championships, but it takes a team to do that shit. But when it comes to an individual player, and who I was, and the work that I put in, that's all I need to hear.

• 34:44Channing Crowder?

  What, what, what, to that same point, like, cuz it's funny, cuz you didn't win a championship. Charles Barkley gets killed for it, like, he, you know, he's on TV every day.

• 34:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:52Channing Crowder?

  And he gets killed for it. What, what's your proudest accomplishment? Cuz you have so much, bro. All-stars, all this, all that, scoring champion and all. What, like, is Kobe's, not even a, a stat, but like, is Kobe, you know, talking about you something? Or like, what is the thing in your mind that, one of the best basketball players of all time, this is what, this is what I, I pride myself on?

• 35:19Speaker 02

  The respect from my peers. Yeah. Means more to me than anything else. So what, them talking about it, or you? Them, them letting the world know. And that dude right there was, he was cold-blooded. Like, he was nice. He was that dude. You know what I'm saying? Like, to me. Because when you talk about all these accomplishments in terms of championship and, you know, Western Conference and going deep in it. It takes a team, it takes organizations who will do all that. You know, when people talk, "Oh, I ain't making it out of the first round." Well, goddamn, I averaged 30 in the playoff series. What else you want me to do? You know what I'm saying? Like, they'll talk about that. So.

• 36:00Speaker 02

  When I get the respect from the guys that competed against me every single night, nothing else really matters.

• 36:05Fred Taylor?

  And I follow you with that.

• 36:06Speaker 02

  No, nothing else matters.

• 36:08Fred Taylor?

  Oh, for me, um, because everything else is media-driven. The accolades, you know, those votes, like, that's all media-driven.

• 36:15Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 36:15Fred Taylor?

  Right? And you can look at a guy and say statistically, yeah, you belong here. But a lot of times, the stats don't show everything. It's the respect from your peers. And that's the same thing that, you know, I battle when they talk about the Hall of Fame. You know, but this isn't about me. I, I just understand that mindset. But I did want to ask you, though, you say you didn't win the championship. We understand it's a team sport. Would you trade the Hall of Fame for a ring?

• 36:44Speaker 02

  Depends on who I am as the player. That means a lot to me. I respect that. If you know what I mean.

• 36:51Fred Taylor?

  Right, right.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  You're gonna be ring chasing at the end of your career when, when you dang near, when you dang near assistant coaching.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  Hey, it depends on who I am as the player. Now, if you're talking about prying T-Mac, hell, yeah. Because I know if I'm going, if I'm prying T-Mac to win that championship, I'm destined for the Hall of Fame. You dig? So, absolutely any day. But, but. If you're not gonna surround me to be on a championship team. Nah, I want that, I want the Hall of Fame. Forever. I want the Hall of Fame forever. Because in my prime, you didn't surround me with that, so now I'm chasing at the end, nah. Nah.

• 37:36Ryan Clark?

  It's so crazy, Mac, man. Like, I think, you know, we've had, we've had so many players answer that question the other way, right? We've had so many players because it's like the, it's the cliche answer. It's also like the team answer where people say, oh my gosh, like he's such a leader. Like, I think Tom Brady said he'd trade one for two or something like that, and people eat that up. We sat with Ken Griffey. Fred asked Ken Griffey a very similar question, and he was like, hell nah. And he was like, man, it's a lot of folks win championships, like, that's tea, and he was like, it's only so few that can write Hall of Famer under their name.

• 38:12Speaker 02

  But that's why I said what I said. It depends on what player I am. There's a bunch of cats that has championship rings that ain't really put in no work. Right. You know what I mean? So, just like, if I would've won that ring with San Antonio, I mean, I, I, I wanna go through the journey, bro.

• 38:29Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 38:30Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying? I, I, I wanna go through the ups and downs and ebbs and flows of a season, an 82-game season in the playoffs. Like, it's rewarding at the end when you win that championship. Going through that shit, I don't wanna just, you know, hop on a team and I ain't really contributing. Hey, shit, nah, man, fuck, nah, I ain't with that.

• 38:50Ryan Clark?

  Nah, that's true.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  I ain't, I ain't with that.

• 38:53Channing Crowder?

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• 40:13Ryan Clark?

  If we're talking about the Spurs, it's Tim Duncan and Popovich and all that. If you're talking about the Spurs, to me, it's 13 points in 33 seconds. Right? You know, like everybody, like everybody points to the Reggie Miller New York Knick thing, right? And they're like, oh, this is amazing. I don't think enough people talk about that moment for you.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  I think they do, man. Every, every year, you know, ESPN, they, they put it out there. NBA, they put it out there. In China, they have a day for me. Yeah, they have a day for me in China for that. So it's, no, it's, it's, it's pretty, pretty amazing, man, of how they, you know, keep rolling it out year in and year out. So I appreciate that.

• 40:57Channing Crowder?

  No, but, but, but, bro, what, what happened?

• 41:00Ryan Clark?

  Like he had 13.

• 41:01Channing Crowder?

  I was gonna say, he rushed through it like he had a day and all. Like, like, walk us through that 33 seconds.

• 41:08Speaker 02

  Man, you know, one thing about great players is just the unknown, bro. You know what I mean? And that comes from the preparation and work that you put in. So you don't know you're gonna have moments like that, but you know, if you put that type of work in, you're gonna do something spectacular on that, that, that basketball court or that football field. Because it's the manifestation of your work. So going back to that game, I was struggling in the beginning of that game, right? San Antonio is in-state rivalry. They have a hella defensive team and it's always a battle. So I was struggling shooting the ball throughout the course of that game. But, you know, that, that last, you know, minute of that game, something just clicked. Right, something clicked and it was just a wheel to take over.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  And, you know, once I hit the first three in the second three, which was a four-point play, I knew it was over. Uh, cuz I'm six-eight, Tim Dun- and some say I'm six-nine, but Tim Duncan is seven foot seven-one. To pump fake, get Tim Duncan off of his feet, land on, into bump into me and I still get the shot off and it goes in, oh shit, it's destined for us to win this game.

• 42:19Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  And if you go back and look at the last, uh, play, when they threw the ball into their player, no one touched him. He tripped and fell and the ball rose to me. Basketball gods is talking tonight. You know what I'm saying? Let's go win this game, bro. I'm not even thinking about trying to tie this game up. I'm dribbling the ball up the court and I'm looking for my spot, head down, pop, game over.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  Just like that.

• 42:44Ryan Clark?

  What's so crazy, Matt, is like, I was, I was the work hard guy. You know what I'm saying? I had to, I had to be in the building before everybody else. I had to leave later than everybody else. I had to get more treatment. You know, I'm old, so I had the DVD that I popped into my little first IMAG and it said, and my kids be walking by, daddy, you gonna talk yet? One second. You know, I mean, like, I had to, like, I had to be there. It's so different when you do talk to greats and it's not just people saying that you are great, like, you got the accolades. You, you can look at, look at the statistics, you could see the film and all of those things, but you speak of these things so casually.

• 43:21Ryan Clark?

  When you look, when you look back at your career, do you ever sit back though and, and truly appreciate your accomplishments? And appreciate the people you played against and played with and really look at that journey as a whole?

• 43:36Speaker 02

  I do, I do. Um, I talk about it a lot, actually. Um, you know. Just how I even got started, I mean, just the guy coming and taking me off of the football field and giving me the opportunity to go to ABCD to really, you know, give me that exposure that I was looking for. A lot of people helped me along the way. But the number one guy, man, I gotta go back to Kobe. You know what I'm saying? Taking that trip over to Paris with him. And being around him, you know, in a different environment and seeing him work. Like, we'll go to the gym. And I go to this story, I tell this story all the time. So, we get there, we stayed at Disney.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  And I hate roller coasters. I don't do roller coasters, bro. But this guy is so competitive. And he test you and see what you're about. We just finished eating. And he's like, yo, let's go get on this roller coaster. And I'm looking at this roller coaster, man, hell no. No way. I don't do roller coasters. It's like, man, come on. So, you know Kobe, start calling you all these type of names.

• 44:49Speaker 02

  Dog, I ain't built like that Kobe. You ain't come from where I came from. I can't allow you to talk to me like this. All right, let's go. Get on this roller coaster. Oh, man, we get off, I'm sick as a dog, bro. Hey, man, I'll see you later, I gotta go upstairs, bro. So anyways, throughout that day, I told Kobe, I say, bro, I'm about to go to the gym, about to go work out. And he hit me with, man, what you working out for? Bro, that's the off season. Like, man, he like, working out during training camp. Fuck, you working out for now? Let's have some fun. I'm like, what? No way this guy saying this shit to me. So, I go upstairs to chill for a bit, right? I come down, go to the gym. This motherfucker in there sweating like a motherfucker.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  Bro, he in there getting sweaty profusely. I just started laughing. I was like, okay, I got it. So from that point on, I knew who I was dealing with, right? I knew my guy. He trying to always get the edge on you. And, you know, I, I, I just knew, you know, what type of person he was. But to be around him and see how he worked and knew his mentality, his preparation, everything, that shit rubbed off on me because when I got to Orlando, I was grinding. I grinded like I'd never grinded before, bro. I was waking up five o'clock in the morning going to the track. I was working out three times a day, three times a day, right? So when, when, you know, people talk, ah, he wasn't a leader, he, he got poorly.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  I always came into training camp in tip-top shape. You can't, you can't do that, what I did on that basketball court, without being in shape, bro. You know what I'm saying? You keep, you can't physically do that shit. To do that every single night? No, you can't do it. So that grind every single day in offseason, that shit came from cold, man, and how he grinded.

• 46:44Ryan Clark?

  You think, you know, when you think of, and this kind of goes into the accomplishments, but also the, the human side of it. Freddie speaks about injuries a ton. I've gone through my thing. I think Channing's had, what, seventeen, eighteen?

• 46:57Speaker 02

  Seventeen knee surgeries.

• 46:59Ryan Clark?

  Knee surgeries.

• 46:59Channing Crowder?

  What? Yeah, ACL, micro fractures.

• 47:02Speaker 02

  That bitch walk like Kenny Smith.

• 47:06Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, my knees hit funny.

• 47:08Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, and so when, you know, when you are at the height of your profession, the way that you are, and you start to get these debilitating injuries, and you feel yourself no longer being what you were, right? How difficult is that for you, living it every day and knowing, knowing you were here? You know, that's like, you know, I was like here, so that fall wasn't that bad. You know, it was like, oh, I'm good, you know what I mean? But for you, man, to feel your body basically betraying you, how did you deal with that?

• 47:44Speaker 02

  No matter how humble you are as an individual, you know, we're all competitors in our, in our own, you know, sport, in our own way. And we all have an ego, right? You can't be out there if you don't have no ego. It's just what it is. That's a devastating blow to your ego, right? Because now it's like...

• 48:04Speaker 00

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 48:09Speaker 06

  We go V.

• 48:12Speaker 00

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• 48:35Speaker 02

  You in a certain percentile of talent and greatness. Less than 1% for you. Right, you in a certain percentile. But now, when those injuries start happening, that shit drops you all the way down and it's like, I won't even say you're normal, bro. It's like you, you know, some cats that you feel that there's no way you should be guarding me right now. No way you should be in front of me right now. I'll fucking rip your heart out if I was, you know, healthy and on top of my game. Like, coach would have you sitting on the bench right now, but damn, I can't even get by this cat. Right? So, that was devastating in a sense that

• 49:19Speaker 02

  I love being celebrated. I love hearing MVP chants. I love to have 20,000 rocking, bro, in the arena. That shit is quiet. Wow. It's quiet. And when I had microfracture surgery, it was probably the most depressing time of my life. Because I'm fighting every year to try to win a championship. And I'm with Houston. And finally, I'm like, damn, we got the team that I've finally been waiting for my whole career. Shane Battier, Rafer Austin, I got my, you know, my guys, and we got Ron Artest. Oh, I'm about to compete for a championship. Hail you.

• 50:06Speaker 02

  Knee blew out on me. Done. Go around, second, third, fourth opinions. You gotta have microfracture surgery. Now, I know the history of microfracture surgery. It's not good. It's never good. I know I'm done. And I ain't, I'm not gonna get that, that chance of competing for a championship. So.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  I had to move to Chicago, man. I had microfracture surgery. And I'm laying in my room in my bed, bro, in this CPA machine, just moving my leg, you know, to help the, the blood circulate for eight hours out the day. My team is still playing. They played Portland Trail Blazers, the first round. Brandon Roy's kinda banged up. They beat Portland Trail Blazers first round. We played the Lakers and Kobe. Take them to seven games, bro. Y'all got hurt, like, beginning of that series. I'm not even there. And we take the fucking Lakers to seven games without me and y'all. You know how devastated I was, bro? To me, I was.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  I hid for almost a year, bro.

• 51:23Speaker 02

  Did not wanna talk about basketball, see basketball, like, I was, I was depressed, man. And I'm, I'm asking like, damn, why is this happening to me at this time? All the work that I put in, you know what I'm saying? I've been true to this game, right? And it, this is stripped from me? I never had that opportunity again to win this championship that I dearly want. And.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  When I got the nomination for the Hall of Fame, all that shit wiped away.

• 51:56Channing Crowder?

  But no, how did you deal with that, though? That's crazy to say, just injury, you know, your team is right there, like, how did you deal with? You say depressed, and you know, the, the mental health thing, like, how did you, how did you deal with that? Cause you say you hid it for a year.

• 52:09Speaker 02

  I had to.

• 52:09Channing Crowder?

  You weren't supposed to hide for a year, bro. You Tracy.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  Nah, man, I, I was. It was a bad time, bro.

• 52:15Channing Crowder?

  Why?

• 52:17Speaker 02

  Why?

• 52:19Speaker 02

  You saying why was Why? I understand, man. This is, this is something that I truly wanted, that I worked for. I put my body through a lot of shit to chase this championship. You see what I'm saying? Like, I put my body through a lot just for that. And for that to be stripped from me, I, I felt like,

• 52:40Speaker 02

  you know,

• 52:42Speaker 02

  it, a part of me was just, it was, it was gone.

• 52:46Speaker 02

  And it, it,

• 52:49Speaker 02

  it slowly, it was a slow leak of ejection from the game of basketball. Right. Slow leak. Because I knew I wasn't gonna be that guy no more.

• 53:01Fred Taylor?

  You say the, the Hall of Fame changed all of those ways.

• 53:06Speaker 02

  What? When I got nominated for that, I was like, oh, man, okay, this, okay, thank you, God. This is, this is rewarding. Thank you for giving me this for, you know, the work that I put in, in this game. You know, at least I was able to achieve something, you know, that a lot of people can't say they,

• 53:26Speaker 02

  they was able to accomplish.

• 53:27Fred Taylor?

  Right, right. I wanna ask you, T Mac, uh, cuz I, I see the joy, uh, that you have on your face when we talk about Kobe.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:34Fred Taylor?

  Talk about your relationship, the whole entire thing. January twenty-six, twenty twenty.

• 53:42Fred Taylor?

  Go through that day.

• 53:43Speaker 02

  Man, you have no idea, bro. You have no, I'll listen. My wife had an event. And I was about to, uh, I was about to do a daddy-daughter dance for my oldest daughter at my wife's event.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  And I'm sitting at the table.

• 54:03Speaker 02

  And one of my wife's friends come to the, uh, while she's coming to my table to talk, to, to tell me, she blurted it out. Kobe Bryant just died in the helicopter crash. My manager, who managed Kobe back in his earlier days, is calling me at the same time. I'm, I wasn't, I thought this shit was a hoax. And she just said, are you okay? And I'm like, what are you talking about? She's like, Kobe just died. And, bro, I just, I dropped the phone. And mind you, it's hundreds of people in this room, they don't know what's going on. And I, I get up from my seat, bawling, like, I can't believe this shit. I, I cannot believe, like,

• 54:48Speaker 02

  I just told my man yesterday, one of my, one of my boys here. I say, "Bro, I can't believe Kobe gone, bro." Like, we was talking about this yesterday. I say, "I can't believe Kobe is gone." Like, my dude. And he said it. When he was with the Lakers, I got to Orlando because we were so close, right?

• 55:12Speaker 02

  His mindset was, you know, on winning championships. So, our relationship went like this because he was doing his thing, trying to win championships. "Hell, I'm just trying to be relevant and win scoring titles, do something with my team." So, we kind of got like this, separated a little bit, and didn't stay in contact that much. But once we both retired, because his girl was playing basketball, my boys were playing basketball, and we roll in the same circle, we started reconnecting. You know, having tournaments at the same place, and we texting and talking often, right? So, our bond is coming back.

• 55:53Speaker 02

  And to, again, that shit stripped me, man, from, you know, having those, you know, endless conversations and repairing our relationship and, you know, that was, yeah, that, that, that was devastating. And to this day, it still is devastating. I mean, I can't believe that, you know, he and his daughter and those other ones are gone, so.

• 56:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, still pillow swaddle.

• 56:19Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I think, and I, like I told you, he's my favorite player. I didn't know him, you know, like you did, and I think that affected everybody so gratefully because when you have someone who was one of the greatest players that ever lived, and you mentioned him in retirement, we started to get to see the human. And it seemed like people were learning that, you know what? This dude who was so hyper-focused on championships has a heart for people and is a good dude, and he wants to bring people in. In reading about... You in retirement and you saying, you know, you want to teach young people how to build wealth and you want to teach them how to invest and you want to do these different things to give back.

• 57:00Ryan Clark?

  You've now started the OBL and having all of these things when you think of yourself either going forward even right now, who you are, as you say, like the 20,000 no screen anymore, right? The things you do that affects people's lives, they aren't always posted or those things aren't always the things that are talked about. When you think about yourself post-career and what you've been able to accomplish, how proud of you of some of those things?

• 57:28Speaker 02

  You know what? I've always been one to just, you know, put my head down and do my work,

• 57:37Speaker 02

  regardless of who's seeing it, you know?

• 57:42Speaker 02

  Because I, the work that I put in is really just, where I got in my career is based off of someone helping me, right? Giving me that opportunity. And that's just been instilled in me, right? Throughout these years. Having the opportunity to start OBL for cats that, you know, has been overlooked, had some doors closed, told them they wasn't good enough. I want to give them that opportunity. I think, you know, there's only 450 players in the NBA.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  There's an ocean of talent out there that I think people can respect and appreciate their talent. And that's why I started OBL, giving them that opportunity to do that. And on top of that, to learn and understand these guys' stories and tell their stories.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  You never know, and this is so crazy and true. I didn't know, going back to my high school days when I was a junior, I didn't know that guy was watching me. That came and took me off the field. I didn't know he was watching. I was doing my, I was just being me, doing my thing every single day. I've been awarded, you know, for the work in the community that I've been doing. Now, I'm not one to call the news cameras or call this player and let him know, hey, I'm doing this, y'all come out and film. That's not me. People are watching, right?

• 59:14Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 59:14Speaker 02

  I used to be like, receiving an award, you know, I appreciate it, you know, I'm just, that's just me. I just do things just to do it because that's the type of person I am. I feel that, you know, someone gave me that opportunity, I want to give it back. And I don't care to be rewarded for it, but I think now, even more so today, I'm appreciative that somebody is paying attention, that's giving me that, that award and giving me that recognition because the shit that's going on in our society.

• 59:47Channing Crowder?

  Yep.

• 59:47Speaker 02

  So I'm more, you know, accepted to it and understand that shit needs to, it needs to be said and needs to be done, what I'm doing in the community, what we all are doing in the community because it's bad out here, man. These kids, the tools and information that they receiving is so wrong, right? And social media is killing our kids.

• 1:00:07Channing Crowder?

  You wish you would have done more when you played? Because now, as, as older guys.

• 1:00:12Speaker 02

  Done more, what's, what's since?

• 1:00:14Channing Crowder?

  Just done more with the community when, you know what I'm saying? Like the old guys, we do a lot, you know, we give back. But when I, I'll say it, because I left as a sophomore in college, like I was 21. Like I didn't, I was just trying to make a check. But now, looking back, I wish I did more when my, when my face and my voice meant the most for our community.

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  I don't think it's, it's never too late, you know what I'm saying? I, I, I don't have regrets. I, I never have regrets.

• 1:00:41Channing Crowder?

  You have no regrets?

• 1:00:42Speaker 02

  I don't have no regrets.

• 1:00:43Channing Crowder?

  You right now, you wouldn't give any advice to 21-year-old Tracy?

• 1:00:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I don't regret it. I don't, I don't have any regrets of the things, the path that I took to where I am today. I don't have no regrets about that. Because I think where I am, where I'm sitting today, I was destined to be here. And to go through all that shit that I, I went through, I learned, it was just a learning process. You know what I'm saying? It's just, it's steps, you know, that, that I had to learn, different things I had to learn to get to where I am today. So I don't have any regrets of, of what I did, of what I've been through.

• 1:01:19Ryan Clark?

  You know, we usually.

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't think my message would have resonated back then to where it is, you know, today.

• 1:01:27Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, we usually talk about the biggest pivot. And I think you've told us so much about those things that we've kind of gotten different pivots in your life and different decisions you've made that have brought you to this point. So I think my last question would be for you as we wrap. What is the, the one adversity? What is the one trial? The one thing that you feel like you went through that maybe at the time wasn't necessarily what you wanted or what was the best for you, that you learned the most from and has helped you be today's Tracy McGrady?

• 1:02:04Speaker 02

  Dan, that's a great question.

• 1:02:13Speaker 02

  I, I think for me is understanding how precious life is. Honestly, man. I was in Orlando and at the top of my, my, my game, top of my career in the prime. Shit, ain't, ain't nothing bigger than, in Orlando than me than damn Mickey. Only thing is Mickey Mouse probably, only thing bigger than me in Orlando. And one of my high school teammates, who was my best friend at the time, I used to take him on all my trips. You know, wherever I go, I'll take him with me. And, um.

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  I was on the road somewhere. And I got a call for my cousins to come home. I was somewhere around town to come home. So I I drive home, this is like early in the morning, I drive home. And my, I think my brother and my cousins, they all sitting on the uh the staircase. I'm like, yo, like, what's going on? And then nobody wanted to tell me. I'm like, yo, what the fuck is going on? And I was like, yo, man, well, E got killed last night. And when I, when I heard that, bro, like,

• 1:03:28Speaker 02

  that shit ripped my heart up. It ripped my heart out that my best friend was gone. And the crazy shit, we were playing phone tag, you know, back and forth. So I never got an opportunity to return my guy's phone. So from that day on, man, I just knew, uh, life is too precious to be out here acting stupid and doing crazy shit, man. I gotta, I gotta put my head down, bro, and really concentrate and understand, you know, what I want and how I want this shit to go. And um it took some time for me to get over that, you know, losing my best friend, man. And but that was a turning point for me.

• 1:04:05Channing Crowder?

  How'd it change you?

• 1:04:09Speaker 02

  Well, going back to the story of how it happened, I won't tell it. It it lets me know that I gotta be careful who's around me.

• 1:04:19Speaker 02

  Gotta be careful who I let, you know, close and dear to to my heart.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  And that's what changed me. Uh, so I killed. If you ever see me, you're gonna see the same people every single time you see me. Ain't no new, no new friends, none of that shit coming into my, so I I don't roll like that. I don't roll like that. And and that's just the way it's gonna be because of that situation.

• 1:04:47Fred Taylor?

  T Mac, I know you're a student of the game, man. I know we're about to wrap this up. Uh, but I can't let you go without asking you, you watching current players?

• 1:04:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:58Fred Taylor?

  Who's T Mac OG certified, whatever you wanna call it, who the top dogs in the league?

• 1:05:04Speaker 02

  I mean, whatever they're top dogs.

• 1:05:07Fred Taylor?

  You're you're top guys. It ain't gotta be three, four, five. It'd be whatever you wanna say.

• 1:05:11Speaker 02

  So wh- wh- what are we talking? We talking like the LeBrons?

• 1:05:14Fred Taylor?

  The guys you like to watch, just current guys, right?

• 1:05:16Speaker 02

  Like, I don't think, I don't think, I mean, for me.

• 1:05:19Ryan Clark?

  Not like, we know he could.

• 1:05:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:05:21Ryan Clark?

  Like, I'm talking about the dudes.

• 1:05:23Speaker 05

  The manager guys.

• 1:05:24Ryan Clark?

  The guys that are gonna take the.

• 1:05:25Speaker 05

  Steph, Katie.

• 1:05:27Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, the guys are gonna take the mantle from them.

• 1:05:29Speaker 05

  Right, right.

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  Luca. Ja. Ja is very special.

• 1:05:39Ryan Clark?

  We had, Ja's not big.

• 1:05:41Speaker 02

  Nah, Ja puny, man, but he athletic as shit. And he got, he got that, he got that, that's why I love him. Uh, so Luca, Ja, Giannis, uh, D-Book.

• 1:05:57Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm gonna tell you somebody who else that because the team he plays for, he a dog, man. Trey Young, bro.

• 1:06:05Speaker 05

  Yes, sir.

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  Trey Young's a dog, bro.

• 1:06:09Speaker 02

  But yeah, some of the guys, man.

• 1:06:13Ryan Clark?

  You know what's, you know what's crazy about all of those dudes, Channing? We're more athletic than all of those people. Because they, they had to play basketball, right? They had to get into a sport where you can learn like skill. You know what I'm saying? Like, like when we tossed Freddie T. the ball when Freddie T. was eight, he was already hitting on that pop pop.

• 1:06:33Speaker 02

  Let me ask you a question.

• 1:06:33Ryan Clark?

  You know what I mean? He had to wait for people to.

• 1:06:35Speaker 02

  Let me ask you a question, though. Who's the greatest football player in the game?

• 1:06:41Ryan Clark?

  Right now?

• 1:06:41Speaker 02

  Who's the GOAT?

• 1:06:43Ryan Clark?

  Tom Brady.

• 1:06:43Speaker 02

  Is he athletic?

• 1:06:46Ryan Clark?

  No.

• 1:06:46Speaker 02

  Is he athletic?

• 1:06:47Channing Crowder?

  I was gonna say Randy Moss.

• 1:06:49Speaker 02

  Cause you, listen what you just said. Oh, us, us three, we, we way more athletic than those guys. He's just, is Tom Brady athletic?

• 1:06:57Ryan Clark?

  No, Tom Brady is not athletic, right? But here's the thing, though, Tom Brady, Tom Brady can play baseball. Tom Brady can golf. His skill.

• 1:07:05Speaker 02

  Let me ask you a question, Ryan Clark. Give me a football player in today, in, in, give me a football player that could leave the NFL and come into the NBA and be a radio all-star. Who?

• 1:07:21Speaker 05

  Julius Peppers.

• 1:07:22Speaker 02

  Kid.

• 1:07:23Channing Crowder?

  T. Higgins.

• 1:07:25Speaker 05

  T. Higgins.

• 1:07:26Speaker 02

  Come on, bro.

• 1:07:26Speaker 05

  T. Higgins had North Carolina offers, Michigan offers. Here's the, here's the thing that you're doing, T. Mac.

• 1:07:32Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:07:33Speaker 05

  T. Mac, this is what you're doing. What you're doing is-

• 1:07:35Speaker 02

  Mind you, y'all have 53 players on the roster now.

• 1:07:37Speaker 05

  But, T. Mac, you know what you're doing?

• 1:07:38Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:07:39Speaker 05

  This is what, you're saying, "We're not tall enough." Like-

• 1:07:42Speaker 02

  I'm not saying that.

• 1:07:43Speaker 05

  You gotta have-

• 1:07:43Speaker 02

  I'm not saying that.

• 1:07:44Speaker 05

  Other than CP3, you ain't gonna be no six, it ain't no six-foot Hall of Famers in basketball.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  AI?

• 1:07:53Speaker 05

  6'1".

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  AI, they, hell no.

• 1:07:55Speaker 05

  I've been around AI, he's taller than me.

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  I, I wouldn't get AI 6'1".

• 1:08:01Speaker 05

  Probably better than- Hey, so, okay, check.

• 1:08:03Speaker 02

  But, but, forget that.

• 1:08:04Speaker 05

  Soccer, soccer, basketball, we play, we could do, we play damn tennis, badminton, pickleball, any sport you, if you put us in the, put us in the Olympics, right? Uh, uh, I got you, here, T. Mac, my question for you.

• 1:08:17Speaker 02

  I got you.

• 1:08:18Speaker 05

  My question for you.

• 1:08:19Speaker 02

  I got you.

• 1:08:19Speaker 05

  T. Mac, if we do, if we do, if we do a skills test, right? If you said, if you told Odell Beckham Jr., right? That he could take one step and test in the vertical, you think he would jump higher than every Hooper?

• 1:08:33Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:08:34Speaker 05

  Bro, we got, there's, Byron Jones jumped 44 with his feet together.

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  How tall is Nate Robinson, bro?

• 1:08:41Speaker 05

  5'8".

• 1:08:42Speaker 02

  Exactly. He's 5'8" and jumps out of the gym.

• 1:08:45Speaker 05

  Man, I'm not hearing you, T. Mac. I'm not, I'm not-

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  Here, let me end this discussion right now.

• 1:08:50Speaker 05

  Please, end the discussion, and I have to let you, because my producer is looking at me.

• 1:08:54Speaker 02

  Nah, we good, nah, hell nah, y'all ain't got, nah, we good.

• 1:08:58Speaker 02

  I would take LeBron James and put him in y'all's sport and he'll be the greatest tight end.

• 1:09:02Speaker 05

  I'm too tough to fake when somebody 170 pounds pushes me and I'm 6'8", 250? I'm not gonna fall all on the ground and do all this.

• 1:09:13Speaker 02

  Come on, bro.

• 1:09:14Speaker 05

  I'm not doing that.

• 1:09:15Speaker 02

  You gotta stop that.

• 1:09:16Speaker 05

  T. Mac-

• 1:09:16Speaker 02

  You trying to tell me-

• 1:09:17Speaker 05

  T. Mac, I'm not doing that.

• 1:09:19Speaker 02

  Stop it, bro, you know, you know damn well y'all got some tight ends and some wide receivers that was probably cold as shit with, with, with some of them tendencies right there. You better stop it.

• 1:09:28Speaker 05

  There's a couple of them.

• 1:09:29Speaker 02

  You better stop it. You better stop it.

• 1:09:32Channing Crowder?

  Basketball, football has created a lot of basketball players. That's my thing.

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  I could take Russell Westbrook. And put him in the football?

• 1:09:42Ryan Clark?

  Not him? I don't know if he can play it, but he definitely got the mentality.

• 1:09:45Speaker 02

  He got the mentality. Oh yeah, he'll choke the shit out of somebody in that foul. Yeah, he'll choke the shit out of somebody. Yeah, I fuck with, I like, I like on Westbrook. Because y'all, I mean, again, y'all have more. Y'all got 53 guys on the roster, it's just 12 of us. Just 12.

• 1:10:01Ryan Clark?

  Cause God only give five of y'all in the world, 6'8". Like, you have to, Tracy, the reason that you are one of the greatest players ever, bro, is because you're 6'8" with freaking long levers, jump out the gym, damn, quick, explosive.

• 1:10:16Speaker 02

  Skilled.

• 1:10:18Ryan Clark?

  That's right. I didn't say that we was more skilled than them, Channing.

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  No, skilled, don't leave that out.

• 1:10:24Ryan Clark?

  I ain't say we was more.

• 1:10:25Speaker 02

  Don't leave that out. Yeah, I got those attributes, but skilled. If I was to tear my knee up and I couldn't blow by nobody or jump over nobody anymore, I still can get my game off. Skilled.

• 1:10:37Ryan Clark?

  Right. That's why I say that all of y'all ain't great athletes.

• 1:10:42Speaker 02

  Most of us.

• 1:10:44Ryan Clark?

  Appreciate you, dawg.

• 1:10:47Ryan Clark?

  Appreciate you, man.