The Pivot: Steph Curry on imposter syndrome, Deion Sanders on Shedeur's draft treatment, Stefon Diggs & Cardi B, youth pressure in sports, burnout, men’s mental health, and whether flying someone out is a real trend in modern dating.

“Find the positive. The devil doesn’t sleep and that’s what is sneaking into your mind so when I say F the outside haters, F your inside haters too and know who you are.” Channing Crowder It's another three-man Friday and Ryan Clark, Fred Taylor and Channing Crowder are breaking down all the big sports storylines and trending topics that have us all talking! This unfiltered conversation keeping it 100 as always speaking from the heart and our own experiences. NFL and NBA Updates: Deion Sanders' reaction to Shedeur's draft fall out, Stephen Curry's revelation, Stefon Diggs' offseason, Lebron and Luka's recent comments. Trending Topics: Discussing current events and cultural moments making headlines today such as youth sports burnout, imposter syndrome, mental health, younger dating trends and more. Personal Insights: Sharing personal stories and experiences that offer a unique perspective on the sports world. June is Men's Mental Health Month and with recent passing of Sports Science host, John Brenkus, Channing says no evaluation of money or success dictates what goes on inside someone while Ryan talks about how being tough isn't always the best tool, but rather strength can be found in vulnerability, failure and growth. Whether you're a die-hard sports fan or just tuning in for the engaging discussions, this episode promises to deliver thought-provoking content and plenty of laughs as we break it all down for you heading into thee weekend! 🔔 Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more episodes of The Pivot Podcast. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:30Fred Taylor?

  You ain't got no muscle. You ain't got nothing to burn.

• 0:32Ryan Clark?

  I don't got nothing to burn.

• 0:33Fred Taylor?

  I'm ready to die.

• 0:34Ryan Clark?

  Them hip flexors is gonna hit though.

• 0:36Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, them hip flexors is gonna hit hard.

• 0:38Ryan Clark?

  Look, he's shaking already. What you mean?

• 0:42Ryan Clark?

  He's shaking like a stripper in church.

• 0:44Fred Taylor?

  Or like something in the bedroom where that magic wand hit him.

• 0:47Channing Crowder?

  The rabbit.

• 0:50Channing Crowder?

  The magic wand just vibrated. The rabbit got all that stuff, got the beads in it.

• 0:54Fred Taylor?

  That magic wand by the size of an RC water container. That magic wand got that power to it.

• 1:04Ryan Clark?

  All right, fellas, yeah. Good talk. Magic wands and roses and powers and...

• 1:10Fred Taylor?

  Rabbits.

• 1:11Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, and we like hunting, doing magic shows, gardening, all kind of stuff going on.

• 1:40Ryan Clark?

  Well, welcome to another Friday Three Man Pivot. Channing Crowder, Fred Taylor, Ryan Clark, Pivot fam. Thank you for pivoting with us. Glad to see you boys are doing well. Extremely happy that all of us are doing better than Offset.

• 1:57Channing Crowder?

  That man okay, man. You know, he's gotta move on.

• 2:00Fred Taylor?

  I was catching strays on this beautiful day, man.

• 2:02Ryan Clark?

  No, I was just saying that when I look at, I mean, this is, uh, men's mental health awareness month.

• 2:09Fred Taylor?

  Yup.

• 2:10Ryan Clark?

  Uh, we had Ryan Monday on the show and, you know, remember he told us, he said, hey, what's good for black men's mental health is good for everybody's mental health.

• 2:18Channing Crowder?

  Y'all move on from relationship, you both move on. And y'all decide y'all's path. The road has now split and whatever highway she jumps on, she's on the highway. You get on your own highway. I don't know, you know, let's ride 285 75 in Atlanta, they break off.

• 2:33Ryan Clark?

  I think a lot of times though, you want the highway that they get on to have a lot of traffic, right? You don't, you don't want the one that they get on to be like a hundred and forty million dollars deep, three inches taller, handsome and very successful. You know what I'm saying? Like you don't want her, when she get on that highway, you want her to hop on that highway in a pinto, not a Rolls Royce.

• 2:55Channing Crowder?

  One of those dirt Rolls. He went over there riding like this. We don't want the easy path.

• 3:00Fred Taylor?

  285 go around the city though. You gotta always come back around.

• 3:04Channing Crowder?

  I come back around.

• 3:04Fred Taylor?

  It's gonna come back around. Just like grown folks do grown folks, man, they'll figure it out.

• 3:09Channing Crowder?

  Thing with Stefan, the, the video that went crazy and I want to say, I don't know what was in that bag, whatever. I don't, I'm not advocating for drugs, but him just speaking to other women, they act like it's a problem him speaking to other women. What's wrong with that? It wasn't like he was grabbing them, touching them. He was just talking, BSing, probably had a couple of drinks, having a good time, man. Listen, if you're in a relationship, you can interact with the opposite sex. That's what the thing was getting me about that damn Stefon Diggs boat video. He wasn't doing it, he was sitting there in the captain's chair bullshitting.

• 3:41Fred Taylor?

  But that's the beauty and the magic of social media. Like they put it out there and, and then it didn't even have sound, right? So only the people present in that immediate area, they know exactly what went down. For everybody else who's just left for speculation is 10 different storylines, maybe 100, and people really don't know, but you know, I digress.

• 4:01Ryan Clark?

  Man, bump the storyline. Them people got a relationship, they happy in they relationship, leave them people be. If they wanna go on boats and enjoy their time together, he's not on a boat by himself, allow those people to do that. But you know with social media, we feel, or people feel like they're entitled to the whole of your life. You don't have to go out and address what was going on, you just go on and live.

• 4:25Channing Crowder?

  Keep living, and I'll tell you this too. Asia and myself, we go to the shake spots. And I'll ask Asia, hey, what's the prettiest girl in here? Okay, I'll go throw her money. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's different ways relationships are done. So everybody, I would never look at another woman if I'm... No, but if your woman's okay with looking at another woman too. You know what I'm saying? Like, everybody wants to put people in their little, their little relationship box, man. That's foolishness, that's foolish. Let them people live, they're happy. I saw the video, Stephon look happy, Cardi look happy looking back at Stephon. I'm happy. If she looking back happy, Stephon looking forward happy, I'm happy.

• 5:03Ryan Clark?

  And the pivot moves on. So earlier this week, Asante Samuel and Deion got together to have a conversation. I think that's cool. I feel like Deion's always trying to figure out positive ways to find resolution and solution. But he said on that podcast with him that it hurt him to hear some of the things he heard about Shador during the draft process. Things like he was unprepared, things like he walked into meetings with headphones on. And he's like, if you know my child, that's not how he's walking in. Fred, what's kind of your assessment of that situation?

• 5:39Fred Taylor?

  I think first and foremost, Prime has a right to feel the way he feel. He's a parent first, right? I, I think that prioritizing the entirety of the situation, I wanna leave with that first. He's a parent, so he's gonna have a natural emotion to tie to, you know, the treatment of his, of his son. And I believe along the way, the, the treatment was unfair, in my opinion. We obviously understand that media scrutiny does come with professional sports. But in the case of Shador, I believe it was excessive. You know, and a lot of it was sort of bent in a negative manner. So, yeah, Deion has a right to feel the way he feel, much like any other parent would if certain things were said about their their child.

• 6:23Fred Taylor?

  If it were evaluations based on his gameplay, you know, and then they were talking about him, then that that's fine. But, you know, he that kid did not do anything wrong. I know people might say, well, move on. You guys, everyone needs to move on. But this is about, you know, Prime's feeling in in his heart. And Prime is a good man. But I firmly believe that Shador caught a little bit of whatever Prime left out there from his career and how he moves now. Shador caught some of that. And I think he was just treated unfairly. And going forward, though, I I do wanna or I would like to see the media treat him

• 7:03Fred Taylor?

  or speak about Shador based on, you know, his talent going forward and not all of this other stuff, these other ideas that they've come up with. Like, the kid, I think, is gonna be a good pro and speak to that.

• 7:18Channing Crowder?

  Proof's in the pudding now. I understand Prime being upset. He should have been because they were talking about the man, yeah, he's unprofessional, he won't answer questions. I heard that he felt as if he was interviewing what team he wanted to play for more than trying to impress them with himself. I heard all that crap, too. He is now with the Browns. The Browns don't want to lose. Go win the starting spot. And then them people have to apologize to him. But Prime, Prime's quarterback's son being drafted, one of the best players in NFL history being drafted, his son being drafted, it's unprecedented. He brings a lot of attention. The team didn't know how to deal with it. That's my opinion. The team didn't know how to deal with a kid like that that's already set for life and has a little something to him. And he they wanted they want a little more meek and and accepting.

• 8:03Channing Crowder?

  No, that's not Shador Sanders. That's not Prime. That's not Shallow. That's not Bucky. That's not the Sanders. Your daddy, Deion Sanders, you gonna walk in a room with a little something because that's all you saw your whole life. So the league wasn't ready for it. But now they're in OTAs now. They about to go to camp here in a couple of months. Proof's in the pudding. Go win the job, Shador. That's what I would say. Go win the job and these people gonna sound stupid, to be honest.

• 8:26Ryan Clark?

  Maybe it's my algorithm, but I see Shiloh and Shador more than I've ever seen any undrafted guy or fifth round guy on social media in the history of Instagram, Threads, Twitter, X, whatever it is. Like, those dudes are everywhere. And they caught some of Deion's strays. Right? Deion had a level of greatness that was untouchable. Right? Deion could say, "Yeah, I'm not interviewing with these people because I'm not gonna be there in the draft." Deion could say, "Hey, I already ran 140. I ain't effing with no more of this testing because y'all already know I'm top five and it ain't tripping. Watch the film, know who I am." That's the difference between, I think, Deion and who his kids were.

• 9:09Ryan Clark?

  And then I think Deion's approach to it made other people, Deion's fame, right? Deion's success, Deion's ability to one day be a head coach in the league. Also, Deion's ability and what he's done in navigating the present, right? When we're talking about college of his children and now going into the pros, this is the first thing he couldn't control. And they was like, "I got you." Now, it's not about the actual evaluation. Because like what Freddie said, if you evaluate him a certain way, then that's just the evaluation. It was the chatter, right? It was the conversation around him. So many things about Shador during the draft process were character, character, character, personality, personality, personality.

• 9:54Ryan Clark?

  All these things that we can't prove on the outside, right? We were able to watch the film and say, "Yeah, you know what? Maybe his pocket movement ain't what you want in the first round. Maybe he doesn't have the speed to extend plays. Maybe he doesn't have the rocket arm like some of these dudes." But every report was about something we couldn't refute, also something folks couldn't prove. I feel like Deion's hurt also comes from him always being able to take care of his kids as a father and having a little bit of a feeling that some of this is because of me and I can't take it away from him. You know how it is as dads, man. It's like, you want all the good for your kids and none of the bad.

• 10:39Ryan Clark?

  And then when anything's bad, that's why kids cry, right? Because when they know when they cry, we want to figure out how to stop him from crying. You hungry, you wet, you tired? Let me tend to that from the time that they're born. And Deion finally got to a point where he was like, "Damn." Can't do it, and I think that's difficult to deal with.

• 10:59Channing Crowder?

  I'm sure Joe, I'm sure Nari, I'm sure kids, they take, they have something in you nature-wise and nurture-wise. You think if Shador and Shiloh come home at six, all insecure about themselves, looking at the ground, what's Deion gonna tell him?

• 11:14Ryan Clark?

  Pick your head up.

• 11:15Channing Crowder?

  Keep working, keep grinding, you got beat today, you ain't gonna get beat tomorrow. That's what I, with Lil' Chan and Chaz and Ava, that's what I'm putting, I'm putting that on them, that mindset. And now that mindset is not working anymore. So now, you know, now as a father, you have to adjust. But Deion should not feel any way about what happened, because now, everybody wants to put this crap on the draft. We didn't hear about Jackson Dart's personality. We, we heard a little bit about Cam Ward, because he was the number one pick, but we didn't hear any criticism about all those quarterbacks. But everything about Shador was, he had glasses on. He looks at his watch when he scores. Who gives a damn? He just scored. He can look whatever the hell he wants to.

• 11:57Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, and if they really made any honest evaluations, they would have noticed that he was this way at Colorado. He pulled up with the watch. He had the chain. This is just how this kid is. But they have to be able to separate the gameplay from the, the, the personal stuff, right? So I look at my son, Jim McElwain, when he snatched Kelvin up. And the media, like, he was embarrassed. Everybody embarrassed him. I fell back because I understood it was a game, it was something he did that he shouldn't have done, and I was cool with it. If it was something on the field that Shador did and the media criticized him, Prime would be fine with it. But when it's personal, based on the kid's personality, then I'm okay with Prime feeling the way that he feels.

• 12:41Fred Taylor?

  Because media knows how to separate the two, and oftentimes, they don't, and especially when it comes to the Sanders family.

• 12:48Ryan Clark?

  His kids, right? Obviously, your father's one of the greatest football players of all time. They follow in his footsteps. You were just talking about KT, same with you, you know? My son played football. Jaden played sports in high school. Logan played volleyball. You know, your kids play sports. Ava's gone from tennis to basketball, Lil' Chan, football, baseball. I read something this week, they were having a debate. Saying that telling young black children to play sports is ruining them. And now, the guy kind of went on and he kind of rephrased it later because people was like, hold on, wait. Sports do all of these good things. And he was saying like making them feel like they have to be a professional was sort of the thing.

• 13:30Ryan Clark?

  What's your mindset on your kids playing sports and your way of approaching how they look at it?

• 13:38Channing Crowder?

  My thing is that I think sports is great for kids. The camaraderie of it, the work ethic, going out there, the waking up early, the, I think that's great for all things. This summer, we got Chan in guitar camp. He already plays the drums. He was, he kind of looked and was like, daddy, the guitarist is always in front. I said, well, let's go learn how to play the guitar. You know, diversify what they're doing. And sports is one angle, but it shouldn't be everything. We demand straight A's. Chad, Chad don't get grades, he's four, but even little Chan, straight A's this last semester. Okay, checklist, sports checklist, instruments checklist. I think that's what you're supposed to do with your kids. I don't think telling a kid to play sports is bad at all.

• 14:19Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 14:20Channing Crowder?

  I think making that their entire life is the problem. And even past that, like going for everything for a career, career, career, no. My kids love to fish. My kids love to go to the, what bounty houses, whatever they're called, like they love to go to the beach. They love to go with the little, the little bellyboard and run across the little surf and all. Like that's what I think is the problem when you put so much on sports that the whole family has these blinders on. You're going to the NFL, you're going to the NBA, you're going to be in Major League Baseball. Introduce them to it, push them through it, get them trainers, get them good coaches. You know what, especially if you play ball, you know what it takes to be a professional. Do all of that, but also let them enjoy life.

• 15:05Channing Crowder?

  And that's what I think the, the, the problem is with that. My major focus on this one thing. That's all they're doing. They might. If they don't make it, now what is their life? We're talking about mental health. What is it? If I tear my knee up in high school, what is it then? So I think that's the bigger conversation is that. You don't have to. It's not bad to make a kid play sports. It's bad to only make a kid play sports.

• 15:31Fred Taylor?

  If more parents understood the small percentage of athletes that make it to that dream, that professional sports, then I think they would also introduce them to other arenas. Right? Uh, I think black excellence shouldn't always be, you know, the default dream should. Sports shouldn't just be always the default dream. Right? For black people. And I want my, yeah, we're very athletic. We're, we're great at it actually. But um, I think a lot of times too, that's all we have in certain demographics, certain neighborhoods. Uh, but you know, I, I think that we have to do a better job in our community of identifying the other heroes. Our black heroes in tech, in entrepreneurship, you know,

• 16:16Fred Taylor?

  in the arts, all these different things and music as well. And, and not just say sports is your only way out. Because we have some brilliant, beautiful black minds in all spaces. So as parents, introduce your children to all these different avenues, all these different arenas. I said all the time too, exposure does lead to expansion. You're introducing Chan to guitar and, and all that other stuff. But um, I have to also be better at how I want my kids to be or give them opportunities to go and succeed in, in other spaces. And everyone wanted me to just put them in, in football and sports. I said, nah, if I introduce them, they like it, they'll play sports.

• 17:00Fred Taylor?

  If, if, if, if they don't, they gotta go and do something else. But those grades are gonna always be, you know, uh, like the, at the forefront of what we try and do. So um, yeah, that's my two cents on it.

• 17:12Channing Crowder?

  I think it helps for parents to have girls.

• 17:15Ryan Clark?

  Girls, females, very rarely have these expectations of getting these communal, cultural families out the quote-unquote hood. Right? They don't have that on them because what are you gonna play? That's gonna change all of our lives. And so when you think about women, it is you're pouring into them and you want them to play sports and you want them to be athletic and you want them to understand what it is to be a part of that culture. A culture of striving for greatness, a culture of understanding work ethic and discipline. And so when I put my girls in the sports, it wasn't so, hey, man, so you can go be professional. It was to give them a different community. It was to let them see people of diverse backgrounds and now we can all come together and try to do this one thing. Right?

• 17:58Ryan Clark?

  But boys is different because of what we could see, of what we could touch. Every time Fred Taylor goes back to where he's from and does a camp or he's seen in a store, he's seen around, those young kids say, damn, he from where I'm from. I could go do that same thing. Same thing with you, same thing with me. Right? So many times now, I get calls from young people about TV. Right? Because these kids don't know I even played football. Right? But they know I did TV and so because they could see me, because they could touch me, because they could be around me, now that's a dream of theirs. You know, when you talk about like putting a kid in the sports so he could get, be a professional, it's not about putting him in the sports so he can be a professional. Put him in the sports so he could want to be excellent at something. And honestly, the truth is, right?

• 18:43Ryan Clark?

  He's gonna take to the thing that's probably easy for him, which means he's good at it. Right? Like Marcus Spears' son, whose mother was a first-round draft pick, whose father was a first-round draft pick and a top-50 hooper when he came out of high school. He's supposed to go play basketball. And then when you see he's grown to 6'8", you're supposed to push him to try to be the best he could possibly be, which means he could be a top-five draft pick. That's his lot in life, not everybody's. But we also shouldn't tell kids, don't strive for excellence. It's about saying, this is all I can do. Tell them they can do other things. Show them they can do other things. But I don't want playing sports to get sort of this negative...

• 19:28Ryan Clark?

  Connotation in our communities. Because if I don't play sports, I don't get to the Catholic school that provides me an opportunity to be prepared to go take my ACT and hit my numbers the first time. To be prepared to go to college and be the go-to guy in every interview. Prepared to go to college and get into the Manship School of Mass Communications. And so, sports can take you places. But for us, like for me with Jordan, our conversations were always about where his feet were at the present time and what the next step was. And I think you gotta do that. You can't put a kid in Little League and say, hey, go be Joe Montana.

• 20:06Channing Crowder?

  And one more thing I think parents should do. Don't say, if I don't make it, my Plan B. I'm getting through that now, having the kids growing up now. Don't say, I'm playing baseball. Oh, I don't go to major leagues. Almost like a letdown. Now I have to be a doctor. Now I have to be a lawyer. Ava, I'm playing in WNBA. We watched Dallas, what was it, Dallas, Seattle the other night. She was watching Scarlett Diggins out there doing, oh, she can dribble daddy. I'm like, yeah. She says, I'm gonna play in WNBA, then I'm gonna be a veterinarian, and then I'm gonna open my own dog, my own dog hotel because people leave their dog to me and I'm a vet now. So if they get sick, I'm, yeah, I'm gonna do this and then do this and then do this. Don't make Plan Bs like a letdown of life, a letdown of the family.

• 20:51Channing Crowder?

  That's what I would say when you're planning, when you got them kids set in sports. It's not, now I gotta be an attorney. It's not like that. It should never be like that.

• 21:00Ryan Clark?

  And you also, you also shouldn't say when.

• 21:04Ryan Clark?

  You shouldn't say when. You shouldn't say when Joey makes it, when Robert makes it, when this happens. You also don't have to say if. What you say is, hey, man, we working for right now. I heard a parent recently, I forget where I was, say, when such and such gets to the NFL. And my stomach turned. And now, it also ain't for me, who could look at this child. I know his mama and his daddy. Genetically, that's not the lottery he hit, right? But he is a good little athlete. I think we set our kids up when we're saying when because you already now spending his money.

• 21:44Channing Crowder?

  And that's not his job.

• 21:45Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, it goes back to the parents living their personal dreams through their children. But Chan, I wanted to ask you something because LeBron just recently said, "Parents gotta be careful because they overtrain. You know, they put kids in so many different sports, and then the kids face burnout before they're 22, 23." I have young kids, but they're not in sports. You have kids that are in multiple sports. How do you balance, you know, finding or creating an environment that they eventually kind of take to and find their love for the game versus pushing them too hard and turning them off later in life?

• 22:23Channing Crowder?

  It's a balance. It is a back and forth because like Archie just said, Ava was a tennis-heavy homeschool. Tennis, five hours in the morning, go to school for three hours. Three hours in the afternoon, like, she wanted to do tennis. So Asia and myself, we let her see like, hey, this is what Coco Goff did. This is what the Williams sisters did. You want to be that? You want to play tennis? Let's do everything possible to make you successful in tennis. Little Chan, baseball. Got his team practice, got his batting coach, got his trainer come over twice a week in the morning. We're gonna do as much as we can to maximize your ability at that sport. But the burnout is something that I haven't seen yet.

• 23:05Channing Crowder?

  But Ava did switch to basketball, but she was saying she just wants, she didn't want to be all by herself all day. Tennis is very isolating. So as soon as she said that, do we just say, oh, go play on the rec league? No, we went and found an amazing coach with the Miramar Miracles. So you don't want to do tennis? You want to do basketball? Okay, well, let's go maximize basketball now. So I think that's the thing you gotta do, and also don't specialize. That's what they call it, right? When kids play just one sport. All the kids at school, Chan and Ava, they school teams, they can play them all they want to. Hey, I'm gonna miss baseball because we're playing flag football at school. I want to go try out and see if I play flag football. No problem, go play it. I think that specializing is the problem that parents get into. When somebody's eight, nine years old, you're a baseball player. You're a basketball player.

• 23:51Channing Crowder?

  Let's see if Big Spears can... He's 6'8", he might be able to kick that foot back and... You know what I'm saying? You never know.

• 23:57Channing Crowder?

  He like 160.

• 23:58Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, nah, that ain't right.

• 23:59Channing Crowder?

  He ain't kicking that foot back. But just to answer your question, I think that specializing is what burns kids out.

• 24:07Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 24:35Fred Taylor?

  Even for you, RC, your children are older now, right? So you know, I don't know if you went through it, but a lot of these parents are travel parents. The parents might damn near be facing burnout. They gotta go everywhere and support their children, right? Like, what's your thoughts on, you know, LeBron's statement?

• 24:50Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I think the first thing about what LeBron's saying, I think it's funny because he's talking to Luka, who's been a professional player since he was a teenager. Right? He don't seem burnt out when he be dropping 40. You know, now, maybe he's burnt out on defensive end. You know what I'm saying? But when you think about LeBron's statement, I think the burnout comes in two ways, right? It comes for lazy people, right? Because that's when you realize the reason you were doing all of these things, the reason you were in all of these places was because your parent was bringing you to do it. Because your parent was saying, "Okay, I know the way to get you there. Let me help you get there." And now, when left up to your own devices, you don't have that drive. You don't have that thing in you that says,

• 25:34Ryan Clark?

  "Let me go take this next step on my own. Yeah, I'm a lottery pick. Let me go be an All-Star. Yeah, I'm an All-Star, but let me go be All-NBA. Yeah, I'm All-NBA. Let me go win a chip. Let me go be a Hall of Famer," right? Those people have something that's internal that drove them, right? Like, me and Jordan got to the point where he was like, "Hey, Pop, you know, I know we got this six o'clock." Or I tell him, "Hey, Jordan, Mo's doing sprint work today at traction. If you want to go over there, you got your own car. I'm not going to be home." And he would drive and go do it. And for me and him, it was like every step, right? I teach him something, then I let him go do it. I teach him something, then I let him go do it. Now, you know, he gets to a point to where he's on his own. He FaceTimes not too long ago. We answered the phone and I'm watching him rolling out,

• 26:18Ryan Clark?

  or I'm watching him on a Saturday in the gym by himself. That's who he learned to be. The other thing is, is people who set goals to be a professional. Right, cuz when you set a goal, it's not just about the goal you set. It's about learning to be the sort of person that accomplishes that goal. Right, when I set a goal of being in the NBA, it's like, okay, what type of person does that? Type of person that's disciplined. The type of person that trains hard. The type of person that eats right. The type of person that gets these amount of shots up a day. So when you do get there and you're on that next level, either you're gonna maintain that, or you're gonna take it a step further. But if your only goal was to get there, I didn't hit the finish line now. What am I working for?

• 27:02Ryan Clark?

  What am I trying to take that next step for? And so for me, it's not necessarily that these kids or these young men, young women grind like that. It's that either they never wanted to, or they only did it to get there. And I think that sort of mindset puts you in a place where you don't keep working.

• 27:19Channing Crowder?

  And I think that this, to this conversation is something Amon Ra St. Brown's dad, cuz he has, what, he's three of them in the league? Three brothers in the NFL. Like, you just talking about how hard it is to make it, three brothers in the NFL. And Aaron Donald talked about it with his dad. I didn't wanna go to the gym. Aaron Donald said, like, I didn't want to go work out as much as my dad. 4 a.m. every morning. But once he started making me go, I started loving how my body changed, how I looked, how my strength went. Amon Ra St. Brown's dad, he got a little more, little more gangsta in him. He was like, they getting their ass up. We bout to go work out. So the push of it, I do, to your point with Jordan, I think you were laying the framework for him to now love it. I think Aaron Donald had the framework laid to now love it.

• 28:03Channing Crowder?

  You're never, I'm dealing right now with 13-year-old. "Chang, wanna go work out at 6 a.m.?" "Nah." "But we're getting better, we grinding." "6 a.m.? Let's work out around 11, Dad, it's summertime." "No, I gotta work at 2." You know what I'm saying? So I think that, I think you laid a groundwork. But at some point, to your point, I think I know what you're saying. They have, they have to fall in the lines of love.

• 28:25Ryan Clark?

  You, you, cuz I trained Jordan, obviously, right? I started to work for him. Right, when it initially started, it's Joe, it's 6 o'clock, let's go. Joe, hey, I'm gonna come pick you up from school. After school, when you work out with your teammates, I know they're going to Topgolf, but you gotta come over here and get this footwork. There was that, and then it turned into, Pop, can we go train on Saturday? Pop, can we go Friday? Right now, I'm just his trainer. Don't get me wrong, I'm always his father, but it's the same like you in the league with Bomaritos, right? You going over there because you know that's where you want to train. He not calling you on the phone, so you go train. And so, you know, we got to that, to that point. And, you know, you look at those guys who get there and don't want to work no more,

• 29:10Ryan Clark?

  or feel like they have burnout. And then you see dudes like Steph, who is legitimately the best shooter that has ever lived, and recently, he's talking about having imposter syndrome, right? And feeling like he, he, he doesn't belong, and having to go through the mindset every day of showing up for people, of being his best self. The way I got in, Freddie T., like, I always felt like I wasn't supposed to be there, because that's what the world, or football, told me. Is that something you ever had to deal with as a guy that goes top 10? And is that dude?

• 29:47Fred Taylor?

  I understand what Steph is saying, and some people can use it as a certain sort of motivation, right? Mental health is real, man. The good thing is, he's aware of what he's going through, and the great thing is, he's able to share it. You know, people look at Steph, I, I've read some of the comments, man, when I saw the article come up, you know, people was in there saying, man, you Steph Curry. And some other people were saying, man, if he doesn't know he's Steph Curry, then I'm cooked, who am I? You know, I think you have to be able to identify, you know, and, and listen to your, your, you know, your, your intuition, listen to yourself, and understand that you can help so many other people by sharing it.

• 30:27Fred Taylor?

  I personally are see, I didn't know how good I was, hell, I didn't even know who I was as, as a player until later in my career. Maybe sort of like Steph. I knew I was good, I didn't know how good. I never thought it was an issue. I just enjoyed showing up, playing, trying to help the team win. We didn't speak about mental health a whole lot. You know, I did work with Trevor and he helped re-encourage my confidence. But I never really thought I lost confidence. So I was battling, you know, so much that, you know, I myself wasn't observing. And then later on, I was like, oh, wow, I did lose confidence right here.

• 31:09Fred Taylor?

  Oh, wow, I was, you know, someone I didn't know I was, if that makes sense, right? But yeah, man, I think Steph being in the position that he's in is great, especially this time of the year with June being men's mental health awareness month. I think it'll help a lot of people to go back and self-examine themselves, ask themselves the right questions. So they can lift off whatever burdens or whatever they might be carrying. So I'm all for it, man. I'm glad he was able to identify and now give it to everybody so we can all use it to be better.

• 31:47Ryan Clark?

  Freddie Swims, someone who isn't myself sometimes.

• 31:54Channing Crowder?

  Just something quick on it. Y'all know my opinion on like the doubt, the doubters from the outside.

• 32:01Channing Crowder?

  Like that's what it is, you're doubting my side, but there's internal doubt too. And really, I would say the same thing to that. Like, look, if one of these little reporters or somebody wants to tell you that you're terrible or tell you that you're not good at your job, they're gonna find little stats and numbers to put you down the list and all this crap. Go look at, go look at your stuff. Like even me, I'm starting for the Dolphins, led the team in tackles, did this. Who leads NFL teams in tackle? Oh, I'm the shit. Did I look at my missed games? Did I know about them? Yeah, but find the positive. The devil doesn't sleep. The devil does not sleep and that's what's sneaking into your mind. So when I say F the outside haters, F your inside haters too and respect and know who you are.

• 32:44Channing Crowder?

  And that's the thing, and I'm not questioning Steph, because there's a lot of athletes like that. Why did Jordan keep working so hard? Kobe keep working so hard? All them boys wanted to go grind because they wanted to stay on top, even if they didn't think they were on top? Go grind, but F the outside noise and really try your hardest to F the inside noise.

• 33:05Ryan Clark?

  Somewhat having imposter syndrome makes total sense to me. Freddie T mentioned the fact that people were like, well, if he doesn't know he's Steph, like, I'm cooked. He does know he's Steph, and he knows he's all of Steph. Like, he remembers being the skinny kid that had to remake his whole shot and he couldn't hit the rim. He remembers being recruited, or not being recruited, and ending up at Davidson. He remembers being drafted early, people calling him a bust because his ankles turned or broke, or whatever it was, every single season. Like, those things never go away. Like, you never forget that people didn't want you. And I think depending on the day, right? Depending on the day, it works both ways, right?

• 33:47Ryan Clark?

  There are some days where you wake up and you go shoot 100 shots, and 90 of them fall, and you say to yourself, "Yeah, they was all wrong," right? And then there's other days, you go there, and not as many fall, and you're like, "Man, like, is that old me showing up?" Like, there were days, I'd go to the stadium, and I'd walk out the stadium, and I'd be like, "Man, I love coming here every single Sunday," and saying that the one dude that thought I could play, that was a New York Giant scout, was right, right? And then sometimes, you go to the stadium, and you leave after you played Liddane and Tomlinson, and you're like, "Damn, were the other 31 teams correct?" And so, like, that never goes away, and I think people find greatness in two different ways, right?

• 34:29Ryan Clark?

  You find it because you develop a way to grind based on the fact that nobody told you you could have it. Nobody told you it was possible for you. And so, every morning you wake up, like, you feel that way. But what about Shaq? What about LeBron, right? What about all of these dudes who were supposed to be that guy? You gotta go find your greatness because you're destined for it, right? Because you're saying to yourself, "I actually know I'm supposed to be here. So since I know I'm supposed to be here, let me go prove it to me." There is one where you try to quiet everything that other people have done to you. And then there is another one where you try to raise the volume on everything you've

• 35:14Ryan Clark?

  already told yourself. And I think depending on which one you wake up as, right? That's how your day goes. And I think that's why mental health, you know, is so important.

• 35:25Channing Crowder?

  You just described mental health.

• 35:26Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 35:27Channing Crowder?

  Outside versus the inside.

• 35:28Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 35:30Channing Crowder?

  Which one are you gonna listen to? What are you gonna, what are you gonna deal with? And what are you gonna believe?

• 35:34Fred Taylor?

  How would your mental health be if you raised a child? You, you married a mom when she was two. She graduates and you didn't get an invite. How would that affect your mental health?

• 35:44Channing Crowder?

  Got lost in the mail.

• 35:47Ryan Clark?

  You live in the same house.

• 35:49Fred Taylor?

  But it's the stepdad.

• 35:51Ryan Clark?

  You raised a kid.

• 35:52Channing Crowder?

  The stepdad raised the girl from two, four months old.

• 35:55Ryan Clark?

  Married the mom.

• 35:56Channing Crowder?

  And was the dad.

• 35:56Ryan Clark?

  Married the mom at two.

• 35:57Channing Crowder?

  Was the daddy at the?

• 35:59Ryan Clark?

  The daddy was there.

• 35:59Channing Crowder?

  The daddy was at the?

• 36:01Ryan Clark?

  Daddy was there, the auntie boyfriend too.

• 36:03Channing Crowder?

  The boyfriend?

• 36:04Ryan Clark?

  The auntie's boyfriend was there.

• 36:06Channing Crowder?

  And he didn't get invited?

• 36:07Ryan Clark?

  And the two sisters.

• 36:08Channing Crowder?

  And was buying food and raising and picking up from school.

• 36:10Ryan Clark?

  And then he put off his health insurance too, though, and said.

• 36:13Fred Taylor?

  And took the car insurance.

• 36:14Ryan Clark?

  And you gotta go live your life now. Cause clearly I'm not important enough to be a part of this graduation. So I'm also not important enough to pay all these bills for you.

• 36:23Channing Crowder?

  That's tough.

• 36:23Ryan Clark?

  But he get, is he, is he right with the reaction though, Chan?

• 36:28Channing Crowder?

  She is a, she's a kid still. And I don't know that, I would be honest, the outside noise, we was talking about that. Outside noise of what her dad's telling her, what her aunties are telling her. I don't know their relationship. I don't know what the daddy's telling her about the stepdaddy. So it's more to it than that, cause I think I would need to know more about the, the relationship there. Cause I don't see how she could disrespect that man that raised her since four months old for seventeen, eighteen years and not even get invited. It ain't like she gotta pay for it. Give me a little ticket, let me sit in the stands, come on, man.

• 37:00Fred Taylor?

  She only got eight. You know, students, they kind of minimize how many tickets you get. So she got eight, and like RC said, it was one for the mom, two for her sisters, one for the aunt, one for the uncle, one for the grandmother, one for her boyfriend, and one for her dad, her biological father. So that was eight. And the stepdad, who was there every step of the way, he was excluded. So I think it comes down to communications and, and, and, and boundaries. I think it sets the stage for the certain level of expectation he should have had. This is a conversation he should have had with the wife. Or maybe they did, I don't know. But I think he has a right to be hurt. Uh, he said he wasn't disappointed, but he was certainly hurt.

• 37:43Fred Taylor?

  Uh, the, the young, the daughter, the stepdaughter.

• 37:49Fred Taylor?

  It was heavy on her, cause this is her moment. And he didn't make the list, you know, I. I'm not laughing, man, but it's just it's tough. I would be hurt if I were him. And I would be in a hard position if I were her too. But naturally, my aunt and uncle probably wouldn't have made the cut. My stepdad would have, would have been there.

• 38:10Channing Crowder?

  If her dad was there financially supportive and everything.

• 38:14Ryan Clark?

  It's the boyfriends and all them. Like, like that's the.

• 38:18Channing Crowder?

  See, how close are you though?

• 38:19Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, I think it matters, you know. Uh, clearly, I'm not a stepfather. Um, you know, my three children are, are my three children. Uh, contrary to, uh, popular belief, Jaden lived with me her entire life. And you deal with some of those things, right? Like, you never, when you take care of someone else's child like it's your own for such a long time, it becomes your own to you. It becomes your own to you in your heart. It becomes your own to you in your head. And there are moments in life where you're reminded that they're not.

• 39:03Ryan Clark?

  And I think that's a very difficult thing. This man has been with her mom since she was four months. Been married to her mom since she was two and taking care of her like his own. Then that's a very difficult thing to deal with. And having sort of been in that position as, as a father, I know that I haven't, I didn't always do, you know, thinking about the mom. Like, you're always in this tough spot of, okay, I have to take care of my spouse's feelings, but I gotta take care of this child. I gotta make sure this child doesn't feel like they're wrong for what they feel or who they feel close to. And then sometimes you minimize the feeling of your spouse

• 39:47Ryan Clark?

  or your significant other or the stepdad or the stepmom because you sort of go, well, they're the adult, right? They're supposed to adjust or adapt, but that's not real life. And since you don't necessarily have to deal with it, you're now in this place of sort of a, you know, going back and forth. Like, who do I take care of, who matters? And so it truly does fall on the mom in that case to be like, hey. I gotta step up and say he deserves to be there. I love you, baby. I know you're trying to do the right thing, but this is how this has to go. And I think it's just tough, you know, for everybody, man. And like, when you look at it, you are gonna be on the outside. And, you know, you always talk about counting pockets.

• 40:31Ryan Clark?

  I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be counting sacrifices, right? If I, if you the stepdad, he wasn't at every birthday party. He didn't pay for school. He didn't buy school shoes. And I'm not talking about the real daddy. It could be the aunt or the, the whoever's boyfriend, right? All those things start to play, man. So like, I understand being hurt. And then the question becomes though, cause this event has acknowledged you're a stepparent. Do you no longer treat that child as you have for 18 years that she's your own? And I think that's where.

• 41:11Channing Crowder?

  You still treat her like she's your, well, he didn't, cause he took off all the insurances and all that stuff. Like, the mom, I think both of you had, had the mom should have dealt with this. The biological real mom should have been the liaison, been the middleman of this conversation.

• 41:26Ryan Clark?

  She should have, she should have been the one to like delve out the tickets. She's still 18, this isn't college. Because here is what I learned. I had a homeboy who had the best mother. The best mother. Her parents were divorced. And he would always try to get by his dad's house. And his dad really wasn't fooling with him like that. He was always trying to be close to his siblings from his dad. Cause he was the only child from his mom. Like, he yearned for that, you know what I'm saying? I had a child who was raised by me and Yank in our house with our other children. And she was treated no differently, right?

• 42:08Ryan Clark?

  Like, there was one time that somebody actually complimented me to Yanka and said, "Man, it is so amazing that Ryan takes care of Jaden like she's his own." Because they thought that that was her child from a previous relationship. And so, you know, I think that like, when you look at all of, of, of those things, it's like, man, it gets so difficult to figure it all out. And I think that's the very, you know, tough part about it.

• 42:37Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm replaying this in my head, man, and.

• 42:42Fred Taylor?

  He said he was in her life since she was four.

• 42:44Channing Crowder?

  Four months.

• 42:45Fred Taylor?

  Four months, correct, right? Man, that's kinda... The baby's only four months. Where was the dad? Like, what happened with the relationship? I think you've become a stepdad, like, maybe he kind of was on the other end of flying the mama out?

• 43:00Channing Crowder?

  No, not even that. Like, if they didn't have a relationship, it was a one-night stand, they made a baby, and the daddy hit it, and now this other dude raises this daughter. The daddy didn't care about the girl anyway. Like, you gotta know the whole dynamic.

• 43:12Fred Taylor?

  We don't really know that.

• 43:13Channing Crowder?

  We don't know the whole dynamic, what happened, but I would feel a certain way. I think the extreme of taking off the insurance and taking all that stuff, like, that's extreme if you've been around somebody for a decade and a half. But the man felt the way he felt, that's his damn insurance, that's his damn... Whatever else, that's his shit.

• 43:32Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior-like beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser-Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 44:00Fred Taylor?

  But no, seriously, like, what do y'all think, though? What's the guidelines for the whole flying out situation? Should you expect sex?

• 44:07Ryan Clark?

  Well, the big conversation, and I saw a post, girl said, "Man, you can't be expecting, you know, that sort of treatment on some friendzone stuff." Like, you can't be expected to be treated like the queen on some friendzone stuff. But on the other side, the man can't really expect king treatment off of some Expedia receipts. You know, Chan? Now, we are way past our flew-out days.

• 44:34Channing Crowder?

  There we go. We flewed out and nobody's flewed us.

• 44:38Fred Taylor?

  The term didn't even exist.

• 44:39Ryan Clark?

  But, Chan, based on your limited knowledge of flewed out...

• 44:46Ryan Clark?

  If you get on the plane.

• 44:48Channing Crowder?

  And I pay for the ticket.

• 44:49Ryan Clark?

  You pay for the ticket.

• 44:51Channing Crowder?

  I bring you to my establishment of home.

• 44:53Ryan Clark?

  You bring her to.

• 44:55Channing Crowder?

  Your house, I'm paying, I'm paying for her.

• 44:58Ryan Clark?

  Her lodging. Her lodging.

• 45:00Channing Crowder?

  And meals, I would say.

• 45:02Ryan Clark?

  And meals. Do you expect to get some goodies?

• 45:05Channing Crowder?

  Hell, yeah. What are we, why are we flying out?

• 45:08Channing Crowder?

  We know each other, obviously. You say, hey, I want to come down to the city you in. I'mma come over, I'mma, you gonna pay for the ticket, I'mma get to your house, we gonna go eat, have dinner and all that stuff. And then we're gonna, I'mma sleep on the couch till you in the bed.

• 45:20Ryan Clark?

  That's the conversation that can take place.

• 45:22Channing Crowder?

  That's a conversation that's take place, but if we just want to look at it, stare at each other, we go on Zoom or FaceTime. But why you can't have that conversation before the flight? We talk, that's what I'm saying, talk on the phone. Hey, we, are we, are we bumping uglies? No, I don't want to bump no uglies. Well, let's FaceTime. We just want to look at each other. You can go bowling with your friends, I go bowling with mine.

• 45:42Ryan Clark?

  But what is she trying to figure out the vibe? Or what if you want to figure out the vibe? Maybe you don't even know if you want to have sex.

• 45:48Channing Crowder?

  Zoom vibe. I believe in Zoom vibes.

• 45:51Ryan Clark?

  We don't do Zoom interviews.

• 45:53Channing Crowder?

  Huh?

• 45:54Ryan Clark?

  Sit downs, conversations.

• 45:56Channing Crowder?

  I guarantee I could go on a Zoom and say, oh, yeah, he ain't nobody been on the show yet, she ain't nobody been on the show.

• 46:01Channing Crowder?

  You can figure out somebody with a Zoom, man. What's the point of getting together like that to get a vibe?

• 46:06Channing Crowder?

  You know, I don't believe in vibes and Zoom and all that, all that, all that, it was to see if our, uh.

• 46:12Channing Crowder?

  If you're a Capricorn and I'm a Sagittarius, do we come together with our sun, with our sun persons? Get out of here with that shit. I'm bringing you to me.

• 46:21Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 46:21Channing Crowder?

  To now eat and bowl and sleep? Yeah, I'll kiss my ass. I might be old school. That sounds crazy.

• 46:31Ryan Clark?

  I don't necessarily, okay, okay. Let me, let me give a, a different side of it, right? I get it. You do, you're not going to pay for her to fly, sleep, eat, have a good time if you don't get a payoff.

• 46:46Channing Crowder?

  But at that point, she's a, she's a, she's a pet.

• 46:50Ryan Clark?

  I'm paying for everything. I'm feeding her. I'm letting her sleep in the house and now we just. That was your night, dude? Right, but also too. You want bacon or sausage? Okay, so here's the first thing, right? There's a lot of people who just won't fly to somebody if they don't already have that relationship. So you know, right? But we are, okay, we are also in a time where people meet on social media a lot, right? So if you not in the same city, the only way for me to actually have a conversation with you face to face is for you to get on a plane. So my thing is, okay, let's just have the conversation of what your expectation is. Yeah. Right, and then now, based on your expectation, that's how I make a decision on whether or not I'm gonna pay for this ticket and lodging and food and all that.

• 47:35Ryan Clark?

  Because it's kind of like a first meeting or a first date, right? So you already know. And also too, like I remember, bro, it was like 02, right? I was young, met a little chick at Essence. And I already know, you know, back in our days, you weren't getting on social media. I already know her. She flew out, we went half, because I was on practice squad. I said, I can't, I don't know you like that. It's called Dutch? Right, Dutch, we went Dutch. And you know what? I made a decision that I didn't want to give none up. By the time she got there and we hung out, I realized, I don't want to do it with you. I see. In your life, you withhold Peter Wee? I didn't withhold anyway, because it wasn't hers.

• 48:19Ryan Clark?

  It was not hers yet, and it wasn't in a like a body is not my own situation. Your temple, you don't want to let her in your temple? I didn't like her like that. And we went Dutch, so I ain't waste no money. But what if that happens now? What if it's the first meeting, I fly you out? No, if I take you on vacation, of course I expect it. But even then, I can act like, even then though, I can act like I don't want it the first night, because I know we on vacation for three weeks. Now I'm a gentleman.

• 48:49Channing Crowder?

  Do do do do do do do do. You could do the FaceTime.

• 48:51Ryan Clark?

  Man, Chan, stop it, bro. You be, people be feeling like they in these parasocial relationships. That's why I need to meet people, be around them. And if the vibe is off, y'all should both be able to say, hey, this is okay. You can go back home.

• 49:06Channing Crowder?

  What does a vibe mean? What if you don't like her? But you're talking on the phone. You talk on the phone for 45 minutes. You FaceTime, you Zoom. Like, you could look at Dave's facial expression. Like, what does vibe mean? Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, that whole, that whole...

• 49:20Fred Taylor?

  That's usually an in-person thing, possibly, right?

• 49:22Channing Crowder?

  But what does it mean?

• 49:23Fred Taylor?

  But you have to have that, you have to have that pre-game conversation. You have to establish, you know, what the expectations are. You gotta communicate, you gotta talk, you gotta set boundaries. You can't just run out there and say, okay, this is gonna happen. Because you're setting yourself up for disappointment if sex is what you're actually looking for at the end game. So you can have a pre-game before the pre-game. You gonna go have drinks and stuff, but you have that conversation. And you can do that over the Zoom and everything else.

• 49:51Ryan Clark?

  So do you feel like every first date, you supposed to get some? Because like, if you go... And honestly, if you feel like you spend money on a girl, you supposed to get some? Just get a prostitute or a working girl.

• 50:00Channing Crowder?

  No. No, it's different. If you go to the mall and meet Sally, and then you say, Sally, can I have your number? I'mma call you tonight, we can go to the Piccadilly. You go to the Piccadilly, and you talking to Sally. She's in the same city you are. You and Sally ain't, oh, okay, Sally's weird, she got a lisp. I don't know why you don't like her. You and Sally separate and go your separate ways. Y'all text on Christmas. If we meet and we establish, I'm flying to your city to stay with you...

• 50:31Ryan Clark?

  You do also realize, Chan, people meet on social media now and internet. And it could be the first meeting in person.

• 50:38Channing Crowder?

  So you fly somebody out, and they have plans? I I pay for your ticket, you come stay at my house. Hey, RC, my homegirls down here, I'm about to go have dinner with them.

• 50:50Ryan Clark?

  Stay with them, live with them, let them fly you back home.

• 50:53Fred Taylor?

  I saw that before.

• 50:54Channing Crowder?

  I grabbed my pearls.

• 50:56Fred Taylor?

  I saw that before.

• 50:57Channing Crowder?

  You know where they stuff gonna be? By the mailbox, out front, with the sprinkler system on.

• 51:02Fred Taylor?

  The thing that I saw, when the when the girl touched down, the guy picked her up, loaded the bags, did everything. She was like, oh, can we go down to this mall? I've always wanted to go to your mall in your city. He was like, oh, that wasn't the conversation. We didn't talk about that. We not, not going to the mall. She like, but I just wanna go and I'll meet my girl down there, we'll go to the mall. He was like, I don't, I don't know about that, that wasn't the deal. They didn't make it past the airport exit. He dropped her off, he went and took the bag out, put it back down and just pulled off.

• 51:34Ryan Clark?

  Hashtag respectfully, though. It was, it was respectful.

• 51:37Fred Taylor?

  Right, cuz he asked her, he's like, um, no, that wasn't the conversation.

• 51:41Channing Crowder?

  But if you don't stand for nothing, you go for anything.

• 51:45Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 51:45Channing Crowder?

  Communication. Last two topics we had was about communication. The girl, then stepdaddy should have communicated. And if you gonna flew somebody out, you need to communicate what's happening when you get there. Communication is a, is a lost form in this current world.

• 51:59Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I mean, I don't really know how we transition to that. Obviously, the show is now over cuz that is the ultimate pivot. Uh, but John Brenkus of Sports Science passed recently. And, uh, his family or whoever posed from his site said it was, uh, he lost his bout with depression, which I think is, uh, sort of apropos for where we are now in, uh, Men's Mental Health Month. And, um, on a show that he once did, he said, you know, after he sold Sports Science, he went through a depression. And it took him a ton to get out of it. He found a therapist and he finally worked his way out of it.

• 52:40Ryan Clark?

  And he talked about what opening up about depression, you know, could be like and the way, um... That it felt for him. You know, obviously, it was something that continued to haunt him and continued to plague him until the end of his life. Freddie T, I know, you know, you have a lot of, you know, strong opinions about why focusing on your mental health is good for men. When you hear something as sad as, you know, John Brink's passing, what are some of your thoughts or advice you could give to people who are battling and struggling with some of these things?

• 53:14Fred Taylor?

  We fight a lot of those things on the inside. You mentioned it earlier, we was talking about Steph, right? You also mentioned communication. We have to talk about it. We have to, you know, like, we're bringing up here on this show, we know June. We have different months throughout the year. There's Women's Mental Health Month, Men's Mental Health Month, just Mental Health Month for all of us. I think every day should be a mental health awareness day. You have to be able to, you know, encourage people to have those conversations because you never know what someone is going through within. Even though they can look so good on the outside. Check on your happy friend. You say it all the time. And it's tough because you, you just, it's silent. You just don't know.

• 53:57Fred Taylor?

  But I will always do my best, you know, as a friend. Even, just a regular person, even not being a friend, to ask someone, how's their day going? You know? And try my best to enlighten them and encourage them, even if they're going through the worst. This is, as much as I want to talk about it, it's always sort of hard to talk about, right? Because you try to find the right thing to say to try and help people. But I can say this, and I can tell you two that I'm good. I'm not going through anything.

• 54:40Fred Taylor?

  But I do want to be there to help as many people as I can.

• 54:47Channing Crowder?

  I would say, uh, with what, you know, we, we did the show and I appreciate y'all letting me open up about my father. And seeing others' grief made me open up more to communicate. People calling me to, to lean on me about Randy's passing made me talk more. Because, you know, I wanted to be the tough dude, but now they're crying and they're talking about Randy. So now I'm gonna talk about Randy back with you. And that gets to, you know, the divorce when I was 10 years old. And now we're going with my sisters and with, you know, my, my, my, my step siblings and different people. And it's going deeper and deeper and deeper. And it lifts that weight off. So to the point about communication, if you could find somebody to talk with, talk with them. I was forced recently to communicate more about it.

• 55:32Channing Crowder?

  And I do think it took a, it took a pressure off of me that I didn't know I had on me. And one thing, and I know we talked about this before, counting pockets. Don't say you can't be depressed if you're rich. Don't say you can't be depressed if you have nice cars, you have a big house. Don't, don't put anything financial or success or merit, meritocracy based on depression. Cause John Brenkus was a very successful person. It was something else in him. So I hate, that's my biggest pet peeve. Why is he depressed? He got millions. Obviously the money wasn't what upset him.

• 56:09Ryan Clark?

  John Brenkus, man, I got an opportunity to meet him. I was always like a huge sports science fan, right? Because I felt it always gave me a way to say I could play with people who were like more skilled or more athletic, uh, than me. And when the, the Super Bowl was in Houston, they did this episode of sports science and they let me do it. I had just retired, right? And the night before, my homeboy Kevin, y'all met him, he took me out to eat. So he took me out to eat, we drank a bottle of wine, like I get up in the morning. I didn't know what I was supposed to go do. They did all these things to, at NASA to like, for the astronauts, right? So I'm running on a treadmill, but I got a harness on. And I'm jumping on a trampoline, but I got a harness on all this stuff. But I ate good and drank good the night before. So I had to go throw up.

• 56:55Ryan Clark?

  Right, so I had to run outside and go. And John was so nice to me. He's like, I know RC, man. It's like, you're doing a lot, man. Thank you so much. I get it. Like, he was just so kind. And he was, he was so sweet and so understanding. And so, it does make you sad, but it also gives you sort of the visual of how the outside doesn't always match the inside. And recently, there's been this quote from Robin Williams that has been floating around that says, "People don't fake depression. They fake being okay." Right? And so, it lets you know, when I listen, I listen to it or when I read it, it looks like, or it feels like, it's like, okay, that means that just because people are telling you that they're all right, doesn't mean that they aren't fighting this internal battle. Right?

• 57:38Ryan Clark?

  But it also means that when they tell you something is wrong, something's really wrong. Right? We can't say, oh, they got money, or, oh, they have success, or, oh, they have this. They are crying out to you. And when you think about a man doing that, that's not what we're taught to do. Right? It's counterintuitive to everything I've learned about be tough, fight through it, be a man. Right? And so, when they actually say that to you, we have to listen. We have to know that this is a person that's saying they're struggling. They're asking to not be seen as a man, but to be seen as human. As a human who is dealing with something. And I think so many times, for men,

• 58:22Ryan Clark?

  we realize, or we don't realize, I should say, that we're fighting a fight that toughness actually isn't the greatest weapon. Right? It's vulnerability. It's openness. It's actually being quote-unquote, "soft enough to ask for help." And so, I think when people reach out to you or when people tell you that there's something going on, we have to take those things extremely serious, man. Because for a man to get there, that means he's tried everything else. And when you try everything else and nothing's working, especially for successful people who are used to winning,

• 59:06Ryan Clark?

  I think that's a depth of a low that's real difficult to deal with.

• 59:10Fred Taylor?

  I just want to remind everybody, if you're feeling something heavy, just text 988. You know, and hopefully you can get the help that you need.

• 59:23Fred Taylor?

  Just holler at us, we'll do our best.

• 59:27Speaker 05

  It's a show.

• 59:54Speaker 06

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 1:00:04Speaker 07

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