#ICYMI - Baseball: Physics at the Plate

During off-season, Chuck Nice and Gary O’Reilly went to SXSW for a few “exhibition games” with the folks at TuneIn. First up, the science of pitching, hitting, and catching with Toronto Blue Jays catcher JP Arencibia, astrophysicist Charles Liu and Holden Kushner, host of MLB on TuneIn. Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Subscribe on: iTunes Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360?mt=2 Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-science TuneIn: http://tunein.com/radio/Playing-with-Science-p952100/ SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-science GooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjq NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free. Find out more at https://www.startalkradio.net/startalk-all-access/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Nice. And this is Playing with Science.

• 0:08Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 0:09Chuck Nice?

  And I'm Chuck Nice.

• 0:10Gary O'Reilly?

  And this is Playing with Science.

• 0:16Chuck Nice?

  Yes! Yeah! Yes!

• 0:19Gary O'Reilly?

  And today, sports and science are colliding here in Austin, Texas for South by Southwest. We are so... yes! Give it up! Great place to be, great festival, and we have some superb guests. One guy has basically done it all. Another-

• 0:38Chuck Nice?

  Dude, I'm not a guest, I'm the host. What are you talking about?

• 0:41Gary O'Reilly?

  And another who knows it all. And then there's Chuck and myself. Right, let's get to the business. The gentleman on the lovely Regency sofa, Holden Kushner. Absolutely- Holden-

• 0:55Speaker 02

  Thank you very much.

• 0:56Chuck Nice?

  Ladies and gentlemen, Holden Kushner.

• 0:58Gary O'Reilly?

  Host of our Major League on TuneIn ninety program.

• 1:01Speaker 02

  Right, and I will be JP's interpreter today because he only speaks Spanish in public.

• 1:06Chuck Nice?

  Sweet!

• 1:07Gary O'Reilly?

  This is gonna be a lot of fun.

• 1:09Chuck Nice?

  Oh my god, this just got so interesting. So, now Holden, you are the host of, please-

• 1:14Speaker 02

  MLB on TuneIn Live, we talk baseball, but science is really colliding with baseball now. So it's kinda cool that we're here doing this.

• 1:20Chuck Nice?

  Very cool, very cool. And so the other guy sitting here, who does not speak any English, Gary, who is this? Because he couldn't understand what I just said.

• 1:29Gary O'Reilly?

  I think there are people here that know already who this guy is. JP Anzibia.

• 1:36Chuck Nice?

  Yes!

• 1:38Speaker 02

  JP.

• 1:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, well deserved. The man who was just, in the last couple of months, retired from Major League Baseball. A catcher. A man whose records still stand. You walk away from professional sport and you're forgotten very quickly. This man, that will not be the case.

• 1:55Chuck Nice?

  Just so you can make JP very comfortable, you can interpret this mucho gusto.

• 2:01Speaker 02

  He says, "Thank you very much," I think. Gracias. No problemo.

• 2:07Gary O'Reilly?

  This is gonna take an awful lot longer, isn't it?

• 2:10Chuck Nice?

  Exactly.

• 2:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Right, and joining us via video call is the one, the only, Charles Liu, astrophysicist extraordinaire. Give it up, please!

• 2:21Charles Liu?

  As always, a tremendous pleasure to be here with you guys.

• 2:24Chuck Nice?

  Chuck Liu, my friend, how are you?

• 2:25Charles Liu?

  Hey there. Life is very good, thank you. Uh, waiting for baseball season to start.

• 2:29Chuck Nice?

  I know you're a big fan, Chuck. You're like a huge baseball fan, aren't you?

• 2:33Charles Liu?

  Love the sport.

• 2:34Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 2:35Charles Liu?

  It's great stuff. And, and it, it really is true that, uh, the JP and other, uh, people who are at that highest level of performance in professional sports, their brains are working all the time to optimize things like angles, forces, accelerations, decelerations, little bit of everything. Looking forward to talking about it.

• 2:53Chuck Nice?

  Very nice, man, very nice. JP, did you know this about your own brain? Were you aware that your brain is always optimizing information?

• 3:02Speaker 04

  Uh, I know that my brain is more like a squirrel's brain. I can optimize, I'm here one second, I'm there the other. And so I don't know, I have a, I have a very ADD-like mind, but, uh, I guess that I optimize it pretty quickly because I can, baseball comes pretty fast, so you gotta be able to do it.

• 3:19Chuck Nice?

  Right on.

• 3:19Gary O'Reilly?

  Did you during your career, JP, feel that science had any role to play? Or was it a case of like, you know what, this is what I do, I do it?

• 3:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, I never thought about it scientifically until I started sucking. And then I had to start, then I had to start really looking into why, other than, other than just mechanics and do the, you know, understanding physics side of it. Now, obviously in baseball, there's a lot of spin rate and trajectory, how you launch the ball, home runs, all these different things. So I, I think I was a little late to the party, that's why I'm 31 and I was, I, I, I called it a quit, but it was still, I mean, now it's, like you said, the worlds are colliding, baseball and science and just sports and science in general.

• 4:01Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay Chuck, let's bring Charles in and kind of break down exactly what JP would have gone through in his nine to five, right? Sitting there, hunched behind plate.

• 4:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Charles.

• 4:17Charles Liu?

  Yeah, here's the deal.

• 4:19Gary O'Reilly?

  Fastball, talk me through it, spin rates, everything.

• 4:22Charles Liu?

  Fastball, 90 miles an hour.

• 4:24Chuck Nice?

  How many miles per hour Chuck?

• 4:27Charles Liu?

  Let's say 90.

• 4:28Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 4:28Charles Liu?

  Nice round number, okay, that's a nice fastball. Although I understand JP, you threw about 75, right?

• 4:34Speaker 02

  I threw about 75, yeah, when I had, we were getting killed by the Tampa Bay Rays.

• 4:39Chuck Nice?

  Okay, so now you guys are talking inside baseball right now.

• 4:42Charles Liu?

  No, no, no, JP's one of the, one of the few privileged, uh, major league baseball players in history, both to pitch and to hit and to catch.

• 4:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:51Charles Liu?

  All in the same game.

• 4:52Chuck Nice?

  Pitch, hit and catch in the same game.

• 4:53Gary O'Reilly?

  Did anyone in our audience know this about JP? Did they?

• 4:58Chuck Nice?

  Actually, quite a few people, quite a few people do know this. This is a cool thing.

• 5:02Charles Liu?

  Right.

• 5:03Chuck Nice?

  Holden.

• 5:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:04Charles Liu?

  Yo.

• 5:04Chuck Nice?

  Did he do it well?

• 5:05Speaker 02

  No, he was horrible.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  How did you do in your inning? I, I, in all seriousness, I did not, I, I knew that you'd, I kinda knew you'd pitch. How did you do in that inning? Cause 75 miles an hour ain't gonna get it done.

• 5:16Speaker 04

  No, actually it gets it done, cause no one's used to that speed. If you're under, if you're under the, if you're under the speed.

• 5:25Chuck Nice?

  Excellent.

• 5:25Speaker 04

  That's, that's what works. So I was, actually it was after the game, they're like, JP, so you were throwing knuckleballs? And I was like, no, that wasn't my fastball.

• 5:34Speaker 04

  I just didn't wanna, but I, I gave up one hit. And then, it's funny, ironically, the last guy that I faced.

• 5:40Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 5:41Speaker 04

  He was a guy that I played with my entire life through Little League, through the whole thing. And I'm, now all of a sudden I'm laughing, cause this guy that I'm about to throw a ball, that I'm praying, like, please don't just hit me. That was the only thing I was scared. I'm, I'm used to wearing equipment. I, I'm like, covered up. I didn't want, I was like, please just don't hit the ball back at me, you know? And I got out of the inning and then, of course, after everyone's like interviewing me about, ah, how'd you get these guys out? I'm like, dude, it's because the hitters wanted to get out. Whenever I faced a position player, I was like, okay, this is a lose-lose situation. You hit a homer, everyone's like, dude, you're, you're a D-bag. Like, you just took this guy. And then if you strike out, everybody makes fun of you. So the only way that you can do anything good is kind of walk.

• 6:23Speaker 04

  So when I used to face position players, I would just try to put the ball in play and get out. Cause I was like, just get it over with, just give the bat out with. Nice.

• 6:30Charles Liu?

  That's so sweet. That means your career ERA is 0.00, isn't it?

• 6:34Speaker 04

  That is correct. That is.

• 6:36Charles Liu?

  Good for you, man. Way to go. Okay. I'm sorry. Where were we? Okay, JP's crouched. He's crouched behind the plate, 90 mile an hour fastball coming toward him. 60 feet, 6 inches away. That's 0.46 seconds for him to react. Okay. Now, he's got to set up a target, but if something happens, if the guy throws low when he was expecting high, if he throws inside when he's expecting outside, he has less than half a second to jump in front of this ball. And the first question I have for you JP, something that I've wanted to ask catchers for a really long time. How important actually is the target? Does it actually matter where you put your glove in order to stop the ball? Or in order for the pitcher actually to pitch a good pitch? Does it matter at all scientifically speaking?

• 7:20Speaker 04

  Shoot, that's, that's the question. You're the scientist. I don't.

• 7:26Chuck Nice?

  So, so what Chuck, and it's a very good question Chuck. When you see a pitcher, I mean, sorry, a catcher after he makes the call. So you're in that crouch and I know what Chuck is talking about. You're in that crouch and then you make the call, right? You give your little finger sign, but then you shift position after you give that sign.

• 7:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:47Chuck Nice?

  Does that mean anything? Or is that some kind of like, I don't know, Peyton Manning like Omaha, Omaha? Is that, what is that?

• 7:56Speaker 04

  I mean, there's, there is part of it that's, that's not real. There's, there's certain things that you're trying to mask. Obviously in baseball, you're trying to get, and if I'm setting up in and there's a guy in the dugout that I, that sees me set up in early, most of the time, setting up in is going to be a fastball. And they may be relaying that. So there's a lot of different things that you try to do to mask that. But to his question about the target. Yeah, I mean, you try to give a guy a visual. That's what they, you know, you supposedly, some guys, you talk to some pitchers and they'll say that on a breaking ball, they're not aiming at my mitt, they're aiming at my mask.

• 8:30Chuck Nice?

  Is that because they don't like you?

• 8:32Speaker 04

  That's because they want to start it there because if it's breaking ball starts at my mask, then it's going to be probably in the strike zone when it gets to me. So um, different things. I think the biggest one is, we know how when guys stand up and the fastball up. I think that's the biggest target that that guys, because you're always taught to throw down, throw down. So late in the, late in the so when it's, when the count's late, what we try to do is, is we try to throw the fastball up because if the fastball is on the same plane, and I'm sure you could speak to this too, is if the fastball's on the same plane. If I throw a breaking ball, I want to try to make the breaking ball look to our eyes.

• 9:07Chuck Nice?

  Like it's going to keep straight.

• 9:08Speaker 04

  Like it's going to, yeah.

• 9:09Chuck Nice?

  Stay straight the entire time.

• 9:11Speaker 04

  So if there was a, you know, a side view, you, the fastball would be straight and then you'd want the breaking ball to come right off of that. So if once you're later in the, in the count and there's, you know, most of the times breaking balls, they throw fastballs up. For that reason, because you want them to think that's a breaking ball or whatever and they chase it and it's, it's an easy out, but sometimes if you don't put the, the target up there, they're so used to throwing down that now all of a sudden, if I'm like this, if I don't do this.

• 9:39Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 9:39Speaker 04

  The thing that sucks about a catcher is that anything that goes wrong.

• 9:43Chuck Nice?

  It's your fault.

• 9:43Speaker 04

  It's my fault.

• 9:44Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 9:44Speaker 04

  So it's like JP, why didn't you have your glove up? I'm like, dude, the dude's making 20 million bucks. He can throw the ball where he needs to throw the ball. But it, it's my fault. So that's, that, I mean, yeah, there's certain times, and again, there's certain times where all pretend like I'm gonna throw a ball in the dirt, just show that I'm throwing and I'm, I know that it's going to be a fastball up. Cause again, you're always trying to hide things that you're doing because the other team is trying to relay it.

• 10:08Chuck Nice?

  All about camouflage. Hey Chuck, so can you, can you do a favor? Cause now JP just mentioned two things. Okay. Fastball up. Oh, yeah. And he mentioned breaking ball. So from a physics standpoint. Yes. How do those two things happen? One, how do you get a fastball to go up? And how do you get the breaking ball to break and drop?

• 10:32Gary O'Reilly?

  And what forces are in play, yeah?

• 10:34Chuck Nice?

  And what's that?

• 10:34Charles Liu?

  Yeah, we'll start.

• 10:35Gary O'Reilly?

  What forces are in play?

• 10:35Chuck Nice?

  And what, when, what forces?

• 10:36Charles Liu?

  We'll start with the breaking ball first. Yeah, what forces are in play? A, a baseball, as you know, has got the laces on it, right? And so the raised laces theoretically allow for when a ball is coming through and you're holding it in just a certain way and you spin it as you are throwing it, what's gonna happen is you're gonna create airflow that goes on one side of the ball different from the other side of the ball. And your goal is to make it so that it'll push the ball away from a straight line and go sideways, right? A simple example, you, if you've all played wiffle ball before, you notice that the ball's got holes in it, right?

• 11:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 11:11Charles Liu?

  It's a plastic thing. And so you hit the thing and the ball just kinda floats up and does weird stuff back and forth, left and right, and, and it makes it nice and soft so the kids can catch it without hurting themselves. But, uh, in the major leagues, you have the real ball and actually hurts if it hits your face, right? And you have these little laces that are causing the break to hap- there have been actually a number of, um, uh, masters theses, uh, not quite PhD as far as I know, but masters theses, trying to explain why the ball actually moves. Because if you just do a first order physics calculation, those laces aren't high enough to affect the smooth flow of air over a ball to cause it to break. But it does break. Breaking balls do break, right JP? It's not just an illusion?

• 11:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, and, and to bring up to that point too, and I'm sure you can answer this, is how there are quite a bit of like people who watch baseball here, is, is there anybody that watches baseball for the most part? Alright.

• 12:00Chuck Nice?

  Baseball fans? Yeah?

• 12:02Speaker 04

  You guys ever, will you guys ever realize, let's say when a ball hits the dirt, do you guys realize we always throw it out? Have you guys ever noticed that? Or a ground ball, they throw it out?

• 12:10Chuck Nice?

  I just thought, I just thought Major League Baseball was extremely wasteful.

• 12:13Speaker 04

  No, we are, we are economical, but, um, so what happens is, is scuffs on the ball, right? So if, so if I get a ball in the dirt, right? Pitchers used to tell me like, don't, don't throw it out until the umpire is like, throw it out. Because what happens is, and you could speak to this, is- If the ball's scuffed, which scuffed means on the ball, if there's a scratch on it. Or some guys scratch it themselves, which is also known as cheating.

• 12:38Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. Wait, who was the guy who used to have a little piece of sandpaper in his glove?

• 12:44Charles Liu?

  Phil Niekro.

• 12:45Chuck Nice?

  Phil, Phil, why, why you gotta be black, man? What's up?

• 12:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, hey, that's messed up, man. No, he's quite white.

• 12:50Chuck Nice?

  I know.

• 12:51Speaker 04

  But that's.

• 12:52Chuck Nice?

  So, no, really, uh, but yeah, and so he, he, he was, he was actually caught like taking a little sandpaper and.

• 12:59Speaker 04

  Well, so what happens is, is so I, there's some pitchers that know how to use that. And then what they do is they put the scratched part of the ball a certain way depending on which way they wanted to move. So there was pitchers that I knew if there was a ground ball, or if I was throwing a ball down a second, if I can skip it and get it to be scuffed, I would call a pitch and I could tell instantaneously that the ball without looking at it, that it was scuffed because I knew the ball wouldn't move, his normal fastball wouldn't move, or his normal cutter wouldn't move the, the same amount.

• 13:32Chuck Nice?

  That's insane.

• 13:32Speaker 04

  So that's why when you guys watch the game and you're like, dude, why are they always throwing all these balls out? It's because literally these guys are so good and you can speak about the physics, but as soon as you get a ball that's scuffed and all of a sudden the ball moves two inches, if it's scuffed, it goes four inches.

• 13:49Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 13:49Speaker 04

  Which is a huge difference.

• 13:50Chuck Nice?

  That's a lot of movement. That's a, that's a big, that's a big difference.

• 13:53Charles Liu?

  Yeah. It's like kicking the valve on a penalty shot, uh, in soccer, right? You're just causing the ball and the air to interact in an unpredictable way based on the fact that the ball is not perfectly spherical. Now, the rising fastball, uh, Chuck and Gary, that's the question I want to ask JP also because physically you're not supposed to be able to throw a rising fastball. All right.

• 14:15Chuck Nice?

  Now, wait a minute, are you saying this as an actual physicist?

• 14:19Charles Liu?

  Yeah.

• 14:19Chuck Nice?

  That.

• 14:19Charles Liu?

  From a physics perspective, when you are throwing a fastball, see the mound is a little bit higher than home plate, right? So when you're throwing from the pitcher to the batter, into the batter's box, well, not the batter's box, hopefully just in the, in the strike zone, right? You're actually throwing a ball downhill a little tiny bit, right? There is literally no way to cause the ball to go upward.

• 14:41Chuck Nice?

  So a rising fastball, most physicists are quite certain, is actually an illusion. It's just a fastball that doesn't go downward. And so it looks like it goes upward. And, and I would love to ask a, a major league player who has experience, if actually a ball, to his knowledge, JP, has ever actually dipped down and back up again purposely?

• 15:02Speaker 04

  Uh, no.

• 15:04Chuck Nice?

  Ah, yes, we're right.

• 15:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, you can't. So he's, he's right, he's right in the sense, because what happens is, is in like, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, I think from when the guy releases the ball to when it gets to the catcher, the ball drops eight inches.

• 15:18Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 15:18Speaker 04

  Okay, so what the misnomer is that it's a rise fastball, but it's not rising, it just doesn't drop as much.

• 15:25Chuck Nice?

  I got you.

• 15:26Speaker 04

  And so that's the biggest thing. And so our whole, our whole career, if I have done, as a kid, everything, you're used to the ball coming down. If I can find somebody that spins the ball at a high enough rate that the ball doesn't drop

• 15:40Chuck Nice?

  As much as it would normally drop.

• 15:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, because it, because the eyes, your eyes, I'm just used to, again, and like you said, we have .4 seconds to make a decision. So literally, I'm, when I was hitting, I mean, you have to trust your eyes. So as soon as this ball comes out, what's coming to your head, other than the squirrel stuff, what's coming to my head is, is like, what the ball, what it's doing, what the ball, where the ball's gonna be when I swing? How am I gonna make contact?

• 16:08Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 16:08Speaker 04

  So what these guys do, and this is why guys that are throwing 90 miles an hour, they blow guys away compared to a guy that's throwing 98, because the guy that's throwing 91, out of his hand, you might think is gonna end up here, when it's necessarily, it's ending up here.

• 16:25Chuck Nice?

  So really, the, the rising fastball is just a not dropping fastball. That's the real, that's the real name of it, the not dropping fastball.

• 16:34Speaker 04

  That's what we're gonna start calling it.

• 16:35Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 16:36Gary O'Reilly?

  There you go. And that's all down to the spin rate that a pitcher will...

• 16:40Speaker 04

  I, from, from what I, yeah.

• 16:41Chuck Nice?

  Charles, can you tell us, why, why is the spin rate so important, uh, to support what JP is talking about in the not dropping fastball, which it shall forever now be known as?

• 16:56Charles Liu?

  A spin rate of a ball is the most important thing that determines whether or not it will interact with the air smoothly or unsmoothly, right? JP was saying also, after the spin, there's nicks in the ball, you know, scuffs, or say the laces and things like that can make the difference. If you want to have something not move, you've got to try to make it spin as little as possible. Excuse me, in some cases as fast as possible, right? The faster you go, the less likely it is that the ball's motion will be influenced by random air activity. You want it to spin in a strange and unusual way in order to make it work and create breaks

• 17:41Charles Liu?

  in the thing. So, we could ask JP from the batting point of view. And let me say, while I have a moment, I still remember hearing in the news in your debut with the Toronto Blue Jays when you hit a homerun in your first at bat and then went on to hit another homerun the same day, four hits on your opening day, including two homeruns. I don't know if anyone else has done that before, but I remember hearing that on the news. That was pretty amazing. I want you to know that, JP. I set the bar too high.

• 18:08Gary O'Reilly?

  Thank you.

• 18:10Charles Liu?

  Nice stuff. So, so let me get, yeah, so let me get back to the hitting stuff, okay? Just real quick. Oh, sorry. Yes, so you watching the ball coming in when you're about to hit it, if you see the ball spinning fast, you literally can't see the spin, right? It's when it's slower, that's when you can see the spin and go, uh-oh, this is a knuckler coming in, you have to be careful with it. If you can't see the spin, that means it's spinning so quickly that it's likely not to break, and therefore you can probably predict where the ball is gonna be when it gets over the plate, right? Wow.

• 18:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly. You want to see out of the hand, if you, if you see any kind of laces, any kind of red, usually it's an off-speed pitch, or as opposed to if you see more of a cue ball, you know that it's gonna be a fastball. When you're not doing well, it all looks like a cue ball, so then when you're really in trouble, that's what it, that's then, that's how you know your eyes aren't working. But, yeah, no, to your point, I mean, you'll see it, because I am, now I'm learning because of the amount of spin. Out of the hand, I could tell, okay, that was something that's not a fastball. It would compute in my head.

• 19:13Chuck Nice?

  Cool, man. Very cool. Well, we gotta take a break, so...

• 19:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, we have, um, I think it's ball eye coordination.

• 19:21Chuck Nice?

  Wow, that sounds very gay.

• 19:22Gary O'Reilly?

  That's got Chuck's interest, most certainly, so...

• 19:25Chuck Nice?

  I am so into this right now.

• 19:27Gary O'Reilly?

  We are gonna take a break.

• 19:28Chuck Nice?

  I am so into ball eye coordination.

• 19:31Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, so while Chuck works with that, and he might have to work on that on his own, we'll take a break, and when we come back, we will be speaking to Holden. He's been very patient, so stick with us. Back in a second.

• 19:52Gary O'Reilly?

  Welcome back.

• 19:53Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 19:54Gary O'Reilly?

  Thank you, yes. Gary O'Reilly.

• 19:57Chuck Nice?

  And I'm Chuck Nice.

• 19:58Gary O'Reilly?

  And you've heard it all before, haven't you? Yes, this is playing.

• 20:00Chuck Nice?

  Playing with science.

• 20:02Gary O'Reilly?

  And we are here at South by Southwest, and we are privileged to be here with some really rather special guests. Holden Kushner from iTunes, and JP Allen Sibia, former Major League Baseball player, and, as I said before, the one and only Charles Lu. Right, talked about pitching, Charles. Um, I think JP's got a little bit of an interest in batting.

• 20:30Chuck Nice?

  Uh-huh.

• 20:30Gary O'Reilly?

  Eighty home runs, by the way, this man here. Total envy, total envy, eighty.

• 20:37Chuck Nice?

  But, but holds the record. Still, still holds the record for what? Twenty-three home runs for the Toronto Blue Jays as a catcher?

• 20:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:46Chuck Nice?

  That still stands, right?

• 20:47Speaker 04

  Still stands.

• 20:48Gary O'Reilly?

  Twenty-three in one season.

• 20:50Chuck Nice?

  Not bad.

• 20:50Gary O'Reilly?

  Incredible. And as Charles alluded to before the break, on his Major League debut, first ball, home run.

• 20:59Chuck Nice?

  Wow. What do you think when that's, when that happens like, okay, so it's your major league debut. It's your first at bat. You get up there and you pop a home run. Do you just say to yourself like, damn, it is all downhill from here?

• 21:15Speaker 04

  Yeah. No, I, I, I remember I was, I was not really nervous. I was just ready for the opportunity.

• 21:23Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, because it's been a long road to get to a major league game.

• 21:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, the minor leagues and, and all these different stops that we have in, in baseball that.

• 21:32Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 21:33Speaker 04

  Fortunately, unfortunately, people only see the majors.

• 21:35Gary O'Reilly?

  The New Hampshire Fisher Cats springs to mind.

• 21:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, let's talk about, well, let's not talk about, but Las Vegas was where I was at the longest. And that's where I almost died a few times, but it was, it was worth it.

• 21:46Gary O'Reilly?

  It was a long journey.

• 21:47Chuck Nice?

  Totally worth it.

• 21:48Gary O'Reilly?

  What about that? Anyone have that dream? First ball, home run, major league? Because if, if I was a baseball player, hand up, I would have had that dream. That's the reality. It's incredible. Now, do you talk to us during the break about density of wood?

• 22:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:02Gary O'Reilly?

  And all right, pitch that question, no pun intended, it was really, to Charles. Go for it.

• 22:08Speaker 04

  All right, well, when, when I went through my struggles, I started struggling a little bit. And I actually thought that I would use a lighter, smaller bat, that it would help me. And a hitting coach told me, you're a power hitter. The bigger, harder, heavier, more dense wood would be more, uh, useful for you.

• 22:27Chuck Nice?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 22:30Speaker 04

  I knew, I knew that was coming.

• 22:32Chuck Nice?

  Of course.

• 22:33Speaker 04

  I knew that was coming.

• 22:34Chuck Nice?

  You can't say all those words together and not expect me to do something with it.

• 22:38Speaker 04

  And so honestly, I started using it, but mentally I couldn't adjust and say, man, if I use a heavier bat, I always thought it was going to slow down my hands. It was going to do this. And so I wasn't able.

• 22:49Chuck Nice?

  So you're thinking, let me, let me get around on the swing quicker and a lighter bat will help me do that. I'll get around on the swing quicker. I can meet the ball faster. But then your pitching coach is saying, no.

• 23:04Speaker 04

  Hitting, hitting coach.

• 23:04Chuck Nice?

  Hitting coach, sorry, is saying, you, see how much I know about this sport. Uh, he's saying, you need a heavier bat because you're a power hitter.

• 23:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, so what happens is you said lighter bat. Since it's lighter, your body, you try more. When it's a heavier bat, you try to do less. But also, when a heavier, and this is my question is, when a heavier billet of wood, so when they start making a wood bat, there's, it's, it's a piece of lumber and they move it down. So it's, there's heavier billets, there's denser wood, there's harder wood.

• 23:32Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 23:32Speaker 04

  So if you use a heavier bat, when it hits the ball, the ball's gonna go further. And so, I got convinced, when I started struggling, started using this bat. First game I used the bat, I went home, I hit two home runs. And I was like, alright, this is pretty cool. And then, when I would hit balls on not the sweet spot of the bat, they were still leaving the park, and I was like, complete sold. And nowadays, and you, and, and older times, guys used to use much heavier bats. And it was a big difference. Now everyone wants to use a lighter bat, and I still try to convince guys like, dude.

• 24:08Chuck Nice?

  You still, you should go with the heavier bat.

• 24:10Speaker 04

  The bigger heavier, bigger heavier bat. Everybody knows, wants to go bigger, heavier.

• 24:17Chuck Nice?

  So that's our question. Chuck.

• 24:19Charles Liu?

  Okay.

• 24:19Chuck Nice?

  Tell us your feelings about big, heavy wood. It's just got weird. You couldn't resist it, could you?

• 24:26Charles Liu?

  You are the expert here on good wood. But I can tell you a little bit about the wood that goes in a baseball bat. Uh, the, the thing is, of course, the major leagues have the rules, right? Just like you, the NFL requires you to inflate your balls to a certain pressure, whether or not you want to. Uh, the same is true with baseball bats. You can only have a certain length, certain width, certain amount of pine tar, certain density, things like that, okay? Uh, and, uh, you may remember, there was a controversy some years ago about people putting cork in your bats. You open it up, you put some spongy stuff inside, and you cap it off, and you make the ball bounce a little bit off, off of your bat a little bit more.

• 25:10Charles Liu?

  So here's the physics, right JP? Uh, your, your batting coach was correct, in that if you have a heavier bat, you swing it around, and you are creating more momentum.

• 25:23Charles Liu?

  In your bat, so that when you transfer that momentum to the ball, when you hit it, it will go farther. The problem, of course, is that it requires more torque. You have to generate that extra turning of your wrists and your arms, elbows eventually, in order to move that bat head fast enough to transfer that momentum. Right? The main issue is the matter of contact. If you can contact a ball, pulling while swinging a thicker, heavier bat, your heavier bat is gonna work for you. If you can't get the bat around, though, if you don't have the arm strength, if you don't have the wrist strength, then the heaviest bat in the world isn't gonna help you because that fastball's gonna blow on right by. Does that make sense?

• 26:04Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, it does, because that's what his coach was saying. You're a power hitter, therefore you need the heavier bat. It makes sense.

• 26:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, and to his point, there's guys, I mean, there's different gifts, guys. I was always able to hit a ball far. And so, that was my gift. There was guys that can't hit a ball far, that some guys can throw hard, some guys can't, it's just genetically whatever they have. But that was one thing I was... And so, when I was able to start using those heavier bats, it really made a huge, huge difference.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  I got a quick question about balls myself, because JP's been hit many a time, being a catcher, right? I mean, you go down, you get hit square. So, just for you, which hurt worse, getting a foul tip in the cup? Or was it just a ball that hit the dirt and came up and hit you square on? Can you share a story with us?

• 26:55Speaker 04

  I have a great story about that, actually, yeah. So...

• 26:58Chuck Nice?

  Are you comfortable?

• 27:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, this, yeah, density, yeah. The dudes will understand this a little bit more, I think, but, so, first off, there's this thing called the Nutty Buddy, you guys should check it out. It's actually a cup. It's called.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  It's a cup.

• 27:14Chuck Nice?

  Wait a minute, say it again now.

• 27:15Speaker 04

  Oh, no, no.

• 27:16Chuck Nice?

  Say this again now.

• 27:16Speaker 04

  You need to watch this YouTube video.

• 27:18Chuck Nice?

  The Nutty Buddy.

• 27:19Speaker 04

  That's correct.

• 27:20Chuck Nice?

  And this is a, a, a protection cup.

• 27:23Speaker 04

  That's right. That has, there's two compartments for it.

• 27:26Chuck Nice?

  Two compartments.

• 27:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, so, but it's, check it out on YouTube, the dude, the way he, the way he, he advertises it is he stands in front of a pitching machine and just takes a ball.

• 27:35Chuck Nice?

  And just takes them.

• 27:36Speaker 04

  Square in the, in the cup. And it actually.

• 27:38Chuck Nice?

  Now, see, that, that, that, that, that works unless I find him later on that same night with a dominatrix.

• 27:45Speaker 04

  And then he's a massacre.

• 27:46Chuck Nice?

  And then I'm just like, okay, dude, now you're just, now you're just, you're fooling people. But go ahead.

• 27:51Speaker 04

  So.

• 27:52Chuck Nice?

  The Nutty Buddy.

• 27:52Speaker 04

  The Nutty Buddy. So I've actually, uh, have, have, there's a lot of umpires that wear Nutty Buddies nowadays, thankfully, but, um, well, to my point was, story, the protection from down up is not the best. So foul balls.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:08Speaker 04

  One time, one time, I got a foul ball.

• 28:12Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 28:12Speaker 04

  And hit in the dirt, straight up.

• 28:15Chuck Nice?

  It's ricocheting, straight up.

• 28:16Speaker 04

  Straight up.

• 28:16Chuck Nice?

  Right. It's like a scene from that, uh, from, I, I brought up James Bond earlier, but remember when they pulled that seat out, about the James Bond, and they sat him down? Yeah, go ahead. Casino Royale, the reason, go ahead.

• 28:28Speaker 04

  So I literally am in such pain, I hop off the field.

• 28:32Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 28:33Speaker 04

  Into the bathroom that's in the dugout.

• 28:35Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 28:36Speaker 04

  And so the trainer's obviously chasing me down at this point, like, dude, there's a game going on.

• 28:40Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 28:41Speaker 04

  And so, I pull down my pants and I'm like, just tell me it's not bleeding. Just tell me it's not bleeding.

• 28:48Chuck Nice?

  Oh, Lord, Jesus.

• 28:49Speaker 04

  And so, sure enough, I wasn't bleeding, was able to get back, get back.

• 28:54Chuck Nice?

  You went back and played?

• 28:55Speaker 04

  Finish it out. That night at the bar, and, and again, this is a little much, but that night at the bar, it was a little, ah, a little tougher to sit down.

• 29:04Chuck Nice?

  Little ginger, little ginger.

• 29:05Speaker 04

  But once a few, uh, whiskeys deep and I was good to go.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  I did have a serious question real quick, though. So, the speed of the bat, right? If the speed of the bat is the same as the speed of the ball, when it hits and come up and hits him. Does that mean that the ball is going to stay at the same speed? Does the speed of the bat impact the speed of the ball?

• 29:24Chuck Nice?

  Interesting, right.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, we got a graphic discussion here.

• 29:29Chuck Nice?

  By the way.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  I did, I did want to know some physics, like now there's something called exit velocity off a bat. So it's exit velocity.

• 29:36Chuck Nice?

  Exit velocity.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  You want a certain exit velocity coming off your bat and you know, so.

• 29:40Chuck Nice?

  By the way, on a 90 mile an hour pitch, what was the exit velocity off of the ground to JP's balls?

• 29:48Charles Liu?

  You really don't know. It could be higher, it could be lower, it could be the same.

• 29:52Speaker 02

  Could you explain exit velocity to a guy who has to talk about exit velocity all the time, but can't wrap his head around it?

• 29:59Charles Liu?

  Exit velocity is just very simply how fast the ball leaves the bat, right? Your bat's coming in, ball's coming in, they hit each other, and this was going this way, and then it goes that way. The ball, all you need to know, exit velocity, it depends on too many factors to predict at any given time. But there's two things that are important, right? Not only is you have to get the speed of the ball off the bat, you have to figure out the angle of the ball off the bat is, right? If you are hitting, I don't care if the ball is a bat, the ball is coming off the bat at 100 miles an hour, or 50 miles an hour, or 60 miles an hour. If you don't follow Wee Willie Keeler, hit them where they ain't, it's still an out, right? So the bat speed thing matters because you have to be able to get around on 100 mile an hour fastball.

• 30:43Charles Liu?

  You've got these guys now who are throwing 100 every day, right? I mean, Odalis, guys like that. But really, if you have a, if you're really trying to figure out how to optimize your ability to hit, it's not the speed that matters, it's whether or not you can get the ball to where the, the fielders aren't. If you're trying to hit a homerun, right, you want to take an angle that goes up. I know that hitting coaches tell your people, try to hit line drives, but really, if you're trying, if you're a power hitter and you want to hit out of the park, you hit it at a 45 degree angle.

• 31:13Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 31:14Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, Charles, I think JP has another question.

• 31:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, so another thing.

• 31:18Gary O'Reilly?

  You activated your mind, you little squirrels getting really busy.

• 31:20Speaker 04

  Oh, no, I just, I love it, I love talking this, because, so then some of the furthest home runs, some of the furthest home runs I ever hit, I realized in the barrel, the seams were indented into the bat. And so, it was, there's a miss, I don't know, they're always used to say, you caught a seam. If you hit a ball a certain, a super, super long distance, it was a difference between hitting, hitting it in. The, I don't know, what would you call that?

• 31:48Chuck Nice?

  White part of the ball.

• 31:49Speaker 04

  The white part of the baseball, or?

• 31:50Chuck Nice?

  The space.

• 31:51Speaker 04

  Or the, the seam.

• 31:52Chuck Nice?

  Or right on the seam.

• 31:53Speaker 04

  Because if I, because again, you know with Maple.

• 31:55Chuck Nice?

  So wait a minute, are you saying that you have actually looked at a bat after you've hit a homerun? And the seam of the ball is indenting into the bat?

• 32:02Speaker 04

  So in Maple, I mean, Ash, you can see it a little bit, but in Maple, if you hit a ball square, because guys always want to clean their bats too. Another thing is, is guys always clean their bats because you want to see where you're hitting the ball on the bat, because there's a sweet spot, so you want to be able, it's, it's all the things that go into it, but when, when you hit, since it's a clean bat, when you hit a ball good.

• 32:21Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 32:22Speaker 04

  I know exactly where I hit it, because you can see, especially the longer home runs, you see the seams, the indention of the seams on the bat. So I, I just want to know if that was, if that makes sense, if that's.

• 32:33Chuck Nice?

  And does that make a difference, Charles? The hitting the seam, or hitting the white space? Does that make a difference and why?

• 32:39Charles Liu?

  Let me tell you two ways that it could make a difference, okay? One way is that the white part of the ball is slipperier than the seams. So if you catch the seams, you may be able to hit the ball with a more clean shot without slippage. So that, like, you know, in a foul tip, what happens is you, you catch a piece of the ball and it spins away. But if you hit it on the seams, you might be able to get a little more friction, so that even if it's not exactly square, you might be able to.

• 33:07Chuck Nice?

  So it's the same reason why the pitcher, it's the same reason why the pitcher grips the seams.

• 33:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:12Chuck Nice?

  And the bat is gripping the seams the same way the pitcher throws the ball.

• 33:16Charles Liu?

  Excellent point.

• 33:17Speaker 04

  Which creates more spin.

• 33:19Gary O'Reilly?

  Charles, I have a thought for you. If we, if we sort of cut across all Major League Baseball rules, what would be the perfect material to make?

• 33:29Chuck Nice?

  To cork a bat?

• 33:31Gary O'Reilly?

  A bat. So as a power hitter like JP could do his thing and not worry about it.

• 33:36Chuck Nice?

  Tell us from an astrophysics standpoint, how can we cheat best at this game?

• 33:41Charles Liu?

  If we, if I want the perfect bat, I would actually use an aluminum bat.

• 33:45Chuck Nice?

  Really?

• 33:46Charles Liu?

  Uh, JP, you probably remember from college, right? That, that ball would just fly off that aluminum bat.

• 33:52Chuck Nice?

  So, so why is that? JP, by the way, when you were in college, did you love playing with an aluminum bat?

• 33:59Speaker 04

  I was a huge aluminum bat guy in college, yeah. Really big fan, silver shiny, very, very nice.

• 34:06Gary O'Reilly?

  You're taking this in another direction, Mr. Nice. You are.

• 34:10Charles Liu?

  Okay.

• 34:10Gary O'Reilly?

  You've got your own little show going on up here. Your own little show going off up here.

• 34:16Chuck Nice?

  I didn't do it this time. JP did that one. I'm sorry.

• 34:18Speaker 04

  No, I obliged. You started that.

• 34:21Charles Liu?

  Look.

• 34:21Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm gonna have to separate you two.

• 34:22Chuck Nice?

  But no, seriously, why is aluminum such a great material and why is it worth better?

• 34:27Charles Liu?

  Okay, aluminum is very light for its, yeah, it's still heavier than wood, right? Uh, denser than wood, I should say.

• 34:35Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 34:35Charles Liu?

  Uh, but, um, you can make it kind of hollow. The typical aluminum bat isn't filled all the way through with aluminum. So you've got some space in the middle. So you've got this sort of, um, ability to, to ricochet, bounce back and forth a little bit, that elasticity, right? That was the second point about hitting the ball in the laces that matters, right? Because as JP was saying, you hit the ball in the laces. What, what you're getting is a little extra compression, right? The laces are up by a fraction of an inch. And if you hit that lace just right, get a little extra compression, you have a little bit longer to transfer more energy from the bat to the ball, and therefore you can get a better launch of the ball. That's much why it's...

• 35:13Chuck Nice?

  So it's, it's basically a spring load, is what you're saying?

• 35:15Charles Liu?

  Yeah.

• 35:16Chuck Nice?

  Gotcha.

• 35:17Charles Liu?

  And so if you have an aluminum bat that's got a little bit of give to it, a little bit of hollowness in it, you're just gonna contact, have a longer period of time to transfer energy and therefore you get a little bit extra rebound off of that. I don't know if JP, that, that makes sense to you in terms of, I don't know if you ever can feel this, right? The contact with the ball is just a fraction of a second. But do you ever feel like when you hit a ball really, really well, it seems to hang on the bat just that little tiny bit longer than when you just get a piece of it?

• 35:44Speaker 04

  Honestly, it's almost the, the, the opposite. When you hit a, when you hit a ball super square with a wood bat, you don't feel it, which is, I don't, I don't know how to, I don't know how to...

• 35:57Chuck Nice?

  Well, you know what? I thought that's why they called it the sweet spot. It's because there's no reverberation in your hands through the bat.

• 36:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, when I hit a ball good, I, I knew as soon as I hit it, I was like, that was sexy.

• 36:07Chuck Nice?

  That was it?

• 36:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was it.

• 36:09Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. Yeah, I hit that right.

• 36:11Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, uh, right, we're gonna take a break. Seems like the right time, doesn't it really? Uh, Chuck, go and have a cold shower. Uh, you got a couple of minutes.

• 36:23Gary O'Reilly?

  Right, we'll have some sexy baseball when we get back. Stick around.

• 36:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Welcome back to Playing with Science. I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 36:42Chuck Nice?

  And I'm Chuck Nice.

• 36:44Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, okay.

• 36:46Chuck Nice?

  What we're gonna do is we're gonna do our final segment, but we're gonna open it up to you guys.

• 36:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Right, questions from the floor, please. You must have some. Kayla, you are a must-have with the microphone.

• 36:57Chuck Nice?

  Quite a few people have their hands up.

• 36:58Gary O'Reilly?

  Choose the victim of your choice. There you go. Sir, please introduce yourself.

• 37:04Speaker 05

  My name's Jason. We're here at South by Southwest. And a big focus of things here have been virtual reality and augmented reality.

• 37:15Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 37:15Speaker 05

  I just wanted to maybe get a sense from JP, or maybe from Charles, how that's currently being used as far as sports performance enhancement.

• 37:25Chuck Nice?

  Cool.

• 37:25Speaker 05

  And how might it be used in the future?

• 37:28Gary O'Reilly?

  All right, thank you, Jason. Just to direct you to a Playing with Science show that's already up.

• 37:34Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 37:34Gary O'Reilly?

  Regarding how technology is changing football, and that would be American football.

• 37:38Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 37:39Gary O'Reilly?

  We do address exactly that issue, but...

• 37:41Chuck Nice?

  No, no, absolutely. And by the way...

• 37:43Gary O'Reilly?

  It's free for go and grab, and you'll hear a lot more than we could explain to you in terms of this answer now.

• 37:49Chuck Nice?

  And by the way, just for the distinction's sake, so the virtual reality is completely immersive. That's where you put on the goggles and you are in that world without leaving where you are. The augmented reality is Terminator. So remember Terminator, when he landed and he looked around and was like...

• 38:08Chuck Nice?

  And he saw all the different stats. That's augmented reality. So exactly what you said is great. So Holden, what is MLB doing with that?

• 38:16Speaker 02

  Well, right now, it's more viewing and it's starting to... It's not virtual reality whatsoever, but they're doing real-time analytics.

• 38:24Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 38:24Speaker 02

  So what we're doing, we're talking about root efficiency. Now, root efficiency would be a guy playing the outfield. Is he taking the most direct path to catching the ball and the second that he catches the ball boom, actually they're working on time.

• 38:38Gary O'Reilly?

  So it's vectoring.

• 38:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go. So they're looking at that, looking at root, how fast was his initial jump?

• 38:44Gary O'Reilly?

  Yep.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  And what they're trying to do that way, so that would be the Terminator way of doing it.

• 38:48Chuck Nice?

  Right, that's the Terminator.

• 38:49Speaker 02

  Is calculating how quickly and how efficiently somebody, an outfielder is getting a ball, they're doing a lot defensively.

• 38:55Gary O'Reilly?

  Is this in game or training?

• 38:57Speaker 02

  This is in game while you're viewing. A lot of the things that we're looking at right now is trying to make baseball more exciting, okay? And seriously, I mean it's.

• 39:06Gary O'Reilly?

  No, no, no, it's maybe not so much exciting, but bringing it into.

• 39:09Speaker 04

  There's a lot of nice bats.

• 39:10Speaker 02

  There are a lot of nice bats, but the biggest knock on baseball is it's boring and we're trying to, you know, we're trying to get more people involved in it.

• 39:17Chuck Nice?

  Listen Holden, you had me at a nice bat.

• 39:19Gary O'Reilly?

  Every other sport, every other sport like NFL and soccer are using the GPS trackers, they're using the radio transmitters and the microchips in the pads, so yeah.

• 39:29Speaker 02

  Now as far as the VR goes, that's interesting because I've talked to guys in Major League Baseball, they say that they really don't trust it yet, they don't trust it to where they can bring it to their players. Let's say you're in the batting cage, you're taking actual hacks, but there is virtual reality, let's say you were facing Randy Johnson and you're using this virtual reality. I guess maybe they haven't perfected it to the point where you guys would feel comfortable. I know in NASCAR, there are guys, the drivers put the VR on and there's the course there.

• 39:57Chuck Nice?

  You know why? Because NASCAR, those cars cost a crap load of money, so it's better to crash the virtual car than the real car. But JP, would you as a player feel as though you would benefit from something where you could be in an environment where you're practicing the same thing over and over again without being in an actual game day situation?

• 40:20Speaker 04

  Immensely, I think it'd be, it's huge and I think it's going to change sports just in football, how they're having guys go under center and being able to read defenses before, you know, put you, because. The one thing I did learn and I didn't know as a rookie and everyone talks about experience. And I used to just be like, alright dude, stop with the experience. But that's what, why guys continue to get better through their career. Why guys, because the more times that I could see a pitcher. So if I face a guy 10 times, 20 times, that's why some of these veterans, people were like, why are they so good? Because when I face a guy 50 times, he, unless he completely invents a new pitch, I know everything that he's got.

• 41:02Speaker 04

  And so if I can sit there and watch what this pitch does over and over and over and over, it's gonna make, it's gonna make a huge difference. Now like to your point is, how real is it? Because I don't want to be able to sit there and watch all these things and then when I get into the game, not, it not be the same thing. And then even to the point of, and this is scientifically, you know, Charles is, is, when you're thinking, they always say when you're thinking it's too late. So if I'm in the box and I don't trust my eyes and I have to think, okay, is that this, that, this or the other? I'm done, I got no chance. So if, another part is being overinformed and that's the thing that, you know, for baseball.

• 41:47Speaker 04

  Now for drivers, I have a friend who's an Indy car driver and he, he loves the virtual reality because they can race on the track before they ever get into it. So, I mean, I think, I think it's gonna change the, the game. Right now in baseball, the only thing that they used to do was they have a screen. The Yankees have it and some teams don't really have it, some guys do. It's a screen and so they'll put the pitcher that's, you're facing and there's a little hole out of the screen and the dude just, the ball comes out of there. But that's more just for timing sake and purposes. Because if I can, like, and what I mean by timing for the people that don't know baseball is like, if, if I'm hitting and the guy has a leg kick and it's a certain leg kick

• 42:29Speaker 04

  or if his wind up is a certain tempo, I'm going, everything is, is timing. I'm going off of that pitcher. So if I can, if I can get his timing down, that's half the battle. And so that's more than anything, but yeah, I think, you know, more and more you can see something and you don't have to think and your eyes can just, you're, you were there before it happened. And then of, of course, I think virtual reality is gonna be a huge and integral part of the sports. Super cool, man.

• 42:53Gary O'Reilly?

  Jason, does that satisfy you? Fabulous. Right, please, our next victim.

• 42:59Speaker 06

  Other questions?

• 43:00Chuck Nice?

  She's very keen, isn't she?

• 43:03Speaker 06

  I know people here. So this is more on the behavioral science side, a question for JP. I've always wondered, watching 162 games a year, you get to know who the umpires are and who's cycling through and who's at home plate. So I've always wondered how much you factored that in to their differences of how they call a pitch and whether or not in the box and then also how that's changed now that viewers at home can actually see where the pitch ended up.

• 43:32Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, that's very, that's a really great question. I mean, seriously. You underspoke. That's a really good question. Like, because different umpires have to call games differently. And I mean, you've got to know that. Even though the rules are the same. Even though the rules are the same.

• 43:47Speaker 04

  So we, in baseball, there is literally, I would get a sheet every game and that said, these are the cold and hot zones of that umpire. So some umpires may have a higher strike zone than others. Obviously, the strike zone is a strike zone, but they have tendencies like anybody else. And then also you have to, part of it is being a psychologist back there, because a lot of these guys, their egos are, a lot of them think that they're the gatekeepers of the sport.

• 44:15Chuck Nice?

  And so do you ever do this? It's just like, strike! And you're just like, good call, man. That was a good call.

• 44:20Speaker 04

  Oh, dude. You have, you have.

• 44:21Chuck Nice?

  I really appreciate what you do, brother.

• 44:24Speaker 04

  Hey, seriously, no lie though. There's guys that you have to, you have to like pump their tires like, dude, you were freaking so good tonight. Like, you were unbelievable. And then there's some guys.

• 44:34Chuck Nice?

  You got new contacts, didn't you? You got new contacts. That's great.

• 44:37Speaker 04

  But then there's, and then there's some guys that legit, they will try to stick it to you to the point where I've watched guys backtalk the umpire and I'm back there and I know that whatever we throw, he's calling it a strike because he's pissed off at the guy that's here.

• 44:52Chuck Nice?

  Because he's mad.

• 44:52Speaker 04

  Yeah. So, and they, and they're so, I mean, there's so many things, we could talk forever, but there's so, even to the part, to the point of, if you ever watch, when a guy gets upset at a strike, they don't look straight back at the umpire.

• 45:05Chuck Nice?

  No.

• 45:05Speaker 04

  They'll put their head down and they'll, because.

• 45:08Chuck Nice?

  They start scuffing the dirt. You know what I mean?

• 45:11Speaker 04

  Because if you look back at the umpire, their ego, they know because.

• 45:15Chuck Nice?

  Oh my gosh, so it's like working for J-Lo, if you look her in the eye, you're fired.

• 45:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, done. So because what happens is, as an.

• 45:22Chuck Nice?

  Did that happen to you, Chuck? Yep.

• 45:25Speaker 04

  As an umpire, as an umpire, if I'm looking at the umpire, everybody knows that I'm speaking with him. So he is already right out of the defense.

• 45:34Chuck Nice?

  Don't you eyeball me, boy.

• 45:35Speaker 04

  Defensive, serious. And so, that's why guys, because again, if you, that's like a sign of disrespect. If you look back there.

• 45:42Chuck Nice?

  You just gave me such a new perspective on this game. I never would, you know, there's a big debate right now as to whether or not we should allow cameras and computers to call balls and strikes.

• 45:54Speaker 04

  No chance.

• 45:55Chuck Nice?

  It's a huge, huge debate right now.

• 45:57Speaker 04

  No chance.

• 45:58Chuck Nice?

  And it's the same reason why we have the replay in the NFL.

• 46:02Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 46:02Chuck Nice?

  After hearing this, I never want to see cameras call balls and strikes, ever.

• 46:08Speaker 04

  Well.

• 46:08Chuck Nice?

  Because that is awesome.

• 46:09Speaker 04

  I say no chance just because there'll be, there'll be breaking balls, curveballs, sliders, whatever, that'll hit the dirt. And when they cross this, the quote unquote K-zone, it's in the air, it's passing through as a strike, but it's hitting the dirt. There's no way you're calling that a strike. So there's, there's a lot of things.

• 46:27Chuck Nice?

  So you're saying that this is forever going to be a subjective call?

• 46:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, there, if, for whatever, if I can ever have any say in it, but I, all players will feel the same way. Because again, also too is what, and I'm sure you can speak to this as well, because this is way over my pay grade is, is, and education is, we've been talking about moving the strike zone up or down, correct? And, and part of the reason, and they, because they think that moving the strike zone up is going to make more contact, which it's harder to hit a ball up than down, which that's one thing that they're completely wrong on. But the other one is, the reason why that I think they're trying to move the strike zone is because literally, if you watch the K-zone, there'll be pitches that'll pass through at the bottom of the strike zone that hit right behind home plate. There's no way that that could be a strike.

• 47:12Speaker 04

  But for what they have right now, that's a strike. So it's, there's a lot of things that still have to be ironed out. But again, I wish that they had us mic'd up, because. It's, it's, and then especially when-

• 47:23Chuck Nice?

  I'd, I'd pay extra for that, too.

• 47:25Speaker 04

  And then when I'm, when I'm not, and when I'm not happy with the umpire, then it gets more interesting and more fun.

• 47:30Chuck Nice?

  And what do you, what do you do when you're not happy? Do you, do you say stuff under your breath?

• 47:33Speaker 04

  Oh, no, I wear them out. I'm, I, cause then there's, there's a point, I'm, I'm good with guys and I'm nice to them, but dude, if you-

• 47:39Chuck Nice?

  Do you ever talk to the catcher like he's the umpire? You know what I mean? Like, like, so you're batting, right? There's another catcher, right? And he calls a strike, and then you turn back to the catcher, right? And you're like, I ever tell you, your mother's a whore? Did I ever tell you that? I mean, I'm just talking to you, not the umpire. Like, you ever-

• 47:59Speaker 04

  Oh, the, the, alright, funny story.

• 48:04Speaker 04

  So, do you know, you guys know, uh, Kawasaki? He's with the Cubs now. I don't know if you guys have seen-

• 48:10Chuck Nice?

  Musinori Kawasaki.

• 48:11Speaker 04

  Kawasaki, so, in Japanese, we used to know this, and he, he, he would call the umpires, um, a derogatory term in Japanese.

• 48:20Chuck Nice?

  Sweet.

• 48:21Speaker 04

  Politically correct, he would call the person, uh, a homo, a homosexual to, but he would say, he would like, look at them and just get all over them and say bad things to them. And, and he'd do it smiling.

• 48:35Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 48:35Speaker 04

  So, us in the dugout-

• 48:37Chuck Nice?

  And so, they're, they're thinking that this guy, in Japanese, like, wow, they're such a polite culture.

• 48:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:42Chuck Nice?

  They really are.

• 48:43Speaker 04

  And, and we would be dying laughing, because he'd be looking at the, at the umpire and just ripping him-

• 48:48Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 48:49Speaker 04

  In Japanese, but just smiling the whole way. So, it was great, because the umpire was like, oh, man, even when I'm not good, this guy is smiling at me. But, we all knew that this dude was just completely tearing him apart.

• 48:59Chuck Nice?

  Let's just hope that there are no umpires listening to this show right now, cause he's in trouble.

• 49:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:04Chuck Nice?

  The secret may be out. Alright, I think we got time for one more question. Who would he have? Sir, what is your name?

• 49:13Speaker 07

  My name is Matt, and I'm a science teacher here in Austin, Texas.

• 49:16Chuck Nice?

  Give it up for Matt!

• 49:19Chuck Nice?

  Now Matt, before you go on, let me just ask you, what grade do you teach?

• 49:23Speaker 07

  I teach earth and space science to high school seniors.

• 49:25Chuck Nice?

  Okay, my condolences.

• 49:27Gary O'Reilly?

  Well done you, sir. Congratulations.

• 49:28Chuck Nice?

  I'm so sorry for you, sir. I'm so terribly sorry. But you are a true saint. Good for you. What's your question?

• 49:36Speaker 07

  Dr. Luke, can you make some connections for us between the ball colliding with the bat and galaxies colliding with other galaxies?

• 49:44Chuck Nice?

  It's galaxies colliding, Jerry! Yeah! Galaxies colliding, Jerry! Galaxies colliding! That was a really cool way to bring the whole show together. So cool, from a science teacher to an astrophysicist.

• 50:01Charles Liu?

  Let me put it this way. The collision of two galaxies is like the collision of two beehives. The stars inside them, just like the bees in the hives, won't actually hit one another. So there's not actually a lot of physical collision, right? So in terms of a bat hitting a ball out of the park, you're not going to have a star hitting another star and knocking it out of the galaxy. But you have something just as cool, if not even cooler, because the gravity of the systems will make them slingshot out, without even touching one another. You can throw thousands, millions of stars out into long tidal tails or just flat out into space. You can throw planets out of their solar systems.

• 50:45Charles Liu?

  You can throw moons away from their planets. And all you have to do is to come close enough that your gravity will cause that to fling away. So in a sense, yes, it is too bad that we won't hear the crack of the bat, but we will see fireworks well beyond just one thing hitting another, because you're going to have, in a galaxy colliding with another one, fireworks, celestial, cosmic accident, like...

• 51:08Chuck Nice?

  Yo, man.

• 51:09Gary O'Reilly?

  Did everybody get it? I want to see that from everybody!

• 51:15Chuck Nice?

  Mind blown, mind blown. Very nice.

• 51:21Gary O'Reilly?

  Baseball on fireworks, alright.

• 51:23Chuck Nice?

  Wow, this has been a great show, man.

• 51:25Gary O'Reilly?

  Hasn't it?

• 51:25Chuck Nice?

  This is really cool.

• 51:26Gary O'Reilly?

  I'd like to thank everybody that sat through this and hopefully has enjoyed it. Yes, thank you. And we want to thank everybody at South by Southwest for allowing us to be here and to do our thing.

• 51:40Chuck Nice?

  Thank you to Andrew at TuneIn and TuneIn and of course our guest.

• 51:46Gary O'Reilly?

  JP, please give it up. Thank you.

• 51:52Gary O'Reilly?

  Holden Kushner, the man with the inquiring mind. Thank you very much.

• 51:55Chuck Nice?

  Thank you Holden. Thank you guys. Thank you.

• 51:58Gary O'Reilly?

  The man that needs no introduction. I think you'd love him if you've never met him before. Please give it up for the man on screen.

• 52:04Chuck Nice?

  Chuck Lou. I'm Chuck Nice.

• 52:11Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm Gary O'Reilly. This has been Playing with Science. Thank you so much.

• 52:16Chuck Nice?

  Thank you guys.