The Knock at the Door | Episode 3

In 2005, a knock at Stacie and Brett’'s door changed everything. It would take Stacie nearly 20 years to uncover the truth. It was hidden in a long forgotten investigation file. Now, Stacie is asking the questions she was never allowed to. Reach out to our team at [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. For more exclusive content head to terriblestory.substack.com https://terriblestory.substack.com/. Get free access to archival photos, resources, and bonus stories that didn't make the cut. Plus — get early, ad-free episodes as a paid subscriber. If you or anyone you know is experiencing sexual violence and needs help, please visit rainn.org http://rainn.org or call the national hotline at 800-656-HOPE (4673) or text HOPE to 64673. You can anonymously report school employee boundary crossing and grooming and educator sexual misconduct to Safe Oregon. You can call or text 844-472-3367 or email [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. If you’d like to learn more about educator sexual misconduct and get involved, there are many great organizations doing research, education and advocacy work, including: S. E. S. A. M. E. https://www.ncsesame.org/– Stop Educator Sexual Abuse Misconduct & ExplotationEnough Abuse https://enoughabuse.org/The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children https://www.missingkids.org/homeAmerican Association Of University Women https://www.aauw.org/Stop Sexual Assault in Schools https://stopsexualassaultinschools.org/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sydney Gladu?

  Before we get started, a quick heads up. This episode contains references to child sex abuse material and educator sexual misconduct.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  And then there was a knock at the door.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  And I just was like, huh, that's weird. No one knocks on the door here.

• 0:20Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy's done her best to forget the sound of that knock. But it's one of those things she'll always remember. It's become a part of her, like the smell of air in late January and the gnawing feeling something wasn't right.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  It's a day that I remember very vivid and clear. It was a Sunday.

• 0:37Sydney Gladu?

  At the time, Brett and Stacy lived in a small 1,000-square-foot loft in downtown Portland. She was 24. Their four-year wedding anniversary was coming up that June. She'd only recently finished college and started her first job in design. They got home late that afternoon in 2005 after looking at townhouses in the suburbs.

• 0:56Sydney Gladu?

  Brett flipped on the TV and Stacy was sitting at the computer tucked away in the corner.

• 1:00Speaker 01

  Not a laptop, like a big computer with a big tower. So I was looking at real estate online. And then there was a knock at the door.

• 1:11Sydney Gladu?

  This part happened in slow motion.

• 1:13Speaker 01

  Opened the door. That sight of, I don't know the exact number. It feels like more than 10 men standing there in Homeland Security gear.

• 1:24Sydney Gladu?

  They were Department of Homeland Security federal agents alongside Gresham Police detectives.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  I asked if Brett was there. I opened the door like, yes, he's here. And I just remembered the oldest gentleman saying, you need to come with me. And he and I went down to the coffee shop. I don't remember grabbing a purse or shoes. I didn't have a cellphone at the time.

• 1:49Sydney Gladu?

  Now Stacy was in the coffee shop below their loft, sitting across from a stone-faced federal agent. He said nothing, she said nothing.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  And he and I order a coffee each. I think he pays for it. And we sit down at a little two-top table facing each other. And we sat there for hours. I had nothing to do except for just sit there in my thoughts.

• 2:12Sydney Gladu?

  And her thoughts were swirling that evening.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  I just kept thinking, please don't let it be another student.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  And I kept asking him, is there anything you can tell me?

• 2:26Sydney Gladu?

  After a few hours that felt much longer, Stacy and the agent head back up to the loft.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  They were all kind of like starting to disperse and leave and walk out. And one of them whispered into Brett's ear.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  Suddenly, they were all gone. The door was closed. I said, what did that guy just say to you? And he said, he told me to tell you the truth. And I just said, well, what is the truth?

• 2:50Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy wouldn't get the truth for decades. It was scattered across departments, buried in documents, and hidden in plain sight.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  I was getting like a 1% story and everyone's getting a 1% story.

• 3:01Sydney Gladu?

  20 years later, Stacy learns the truth behind one of the worst days of her life.

• 3:12Sydney Gladu?

  I'm Sydney Gladu, and this is not just a terrible story.

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• 4:29Sydney Gladu?

  After the federal agents leave their home, Stacy and Brett sit in the aftermath. Computer taken from the desk, paper shuffled about, and the subtle feeling that this was not the same house she'd been walked out of a few hours before. Sitting in their loft that night, Brett swore to Stacy. It was all a misunderstanding, a simple mistake blown out of proportion.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  He told me that he had made the mistake of looking at pornography at school and that he was likely going to get fired.

• 4:59Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy had been suspicious for weeks. She knew something was off, and Brett's explanation wasn't good. But it was better than the worst-case scenarios running through her mind when she was at the coffee shop with the federal agent earlier that evening.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  I knew that there was something deeply wrong. And I was asking whoever's in charge to show me what that was, which happened. So then I felt relief because I felt like, oh, okay, this is what it is. And it's exposed and it's out in the open. When things are out in the open, that's the safest place to be.

• 5:31Sydney Gladu?

  After Brett told her what happened, Stacy thought she finally had the truth.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  He dropped me off at my parents' house. And then he went to the district and he resigned instead of getting fired. Basically, they gave him no option.

• 5:43Sydney Gladu?

  Within a matter of days, Brett was no longer a teacher. Two short articles are written in the local paper. Stacy remembers Brett's mom receiving a few phone calls from reporters and some cable news cameras following them. That footage has all been lost to time. They spent the weekend at their friend's house in the suburbs to avoid any heat from the press. But in the meantime, the community came to Brett's defense.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  I remember some parents writing letters that were really beautiful about how much they appreciated him teaching their students and what a great teacher they thought he was. We had a home like recording machine and press play. And there were so many messages from his coworkers and different people within the school.

• 6:31Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy remembers listening to message after message of support.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  He laid down on the ground and sobbed and sobbed and sobbed. And I remember having to console him. I think it's one of the only moments I've ever seen him truly grasp what happened and the consequences of what happened.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  I feel like he's someone that people cover for a lot, someone that people try very carefully not to set off, not to upset. There's some amount of like brushing it under the rug.

• 7:10Sydney Gladu?

  At this point, the rest of the world knew as much as Stacy did, that Brett was accused of looking at pornography in his classroom during school hours. But some of Brett's supporters raised questions about whether he'd been wrongfully accused.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  I know people were making excuses. They were like, well, maybe that was just someone else in the classroom. How do you know it was actually him?

• 7:31Sydney Gladu?

  This is where the Teacher Standards and Practices Commission comes in. We'll call it TSPC. TSPC is an independent state agency in Oregon. They investigate allegations of misconduct, like those against Brett. While the Department of Homeland Security was investigating the potential of any criminal activity, which Brett was never charged for, TSPC was investigating if Brett was fit to be a licensed teacher. Stacy didn't know the extent of the investigation. She remembers Brett confiding in her here and there, but he mostly kept her out of it.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  He had an attorney at that time. I was not involved in any of that that was him and the attorney.

• 8:06Sydney Gladu?

  That attorney was appointed and paid for by the Oregon Education Association.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  I think I was intentionally kind of kept far from it because he really didn't want me to know the details of how severe it was.

• 8:19Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy was overwhelmed by the situation. She took a deep breath and a week for herself to go with her sister to visit family in Idaho, regroup a little bit.

• 8:29Sydney Gladu?

  I feel like I should point out something here. We had Stacy piece this story together over multiple sessions, creating timelines and fact-checking those timelines. She didn't just sit down and walk us through every detail in one go because the story doesn't flow that way in her mind. I say that because I get how this might sound. She had all the information right in front of her. She should have known federal agents don't just show up at your door. Why did it take so long for Stacy to see the reality of the situation? So I asked her that question.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  I was very isolated, so I really could only take the information I could. That was my life, right? My home, my everything. Like, I hate saying this. But I do, I do think it's important to hear, like, I hate saying that. Because everything in me wants to reach back at that person and be like, oh, my God, this is so stupid. Like, you should have asked these questions. You should have done this. You should have investigated this.

• 9:27Sydney Gladu?

  She'd occasionally checked the Oregon Sex Vendor Registry during their marriage and after she left Brett.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  I would search for his name sometimes just to be like, is he on there and he's not telling me? Is there more reported that I don't know about?

• 9:41Sydney Gladu?

  But his name has never been there.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  So a lot of it was just trusting that what you were being told was the truth.

• 9:50Sydney Gladu?

  But she didn't have the truth, or at least not all of it.

• 9:55Sydney Gladu?

  Brett did resign in lieu of termination for looking at pornography in his classroom. But that was only one sliver of the whole story, the only one she had until 2020.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  The veil had been, you know, pulled back. And that just from my own going to therapy and living my life independently and just growing independently and like really looking at things with a clearer lens and not being so accommodating. I think I finally was like, what did really happen?

• 10:25Sydney Gladu?

  She can't remember what exactly sparked her deep dive, but it had been about 15 years since Brett resigned and eight years since she left him. That's when she found it. A two-page, photocopied PDF dense with legalese and official codes. It was the final revocation order from TSPC, the definitive story on Brett's resignation in lieu of termination. And it spelled out exactly why they took away his teaching license.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  When you know that in your gut, you know that in your soul, you don't have the proof for it, your body's kind of always in this like push and pull. But when you see evidence, evidence is evidence. It is black and white.

• 11:02Sydney Gladu?

  Now here was the truth, written in black ink on white paper. These documents don't just appear out of thin air. The revocation order was the endpoint of a detailed investigation. So we filed a request to TSBC and got their 111-page investigation file.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  What is this?

• 11:19Sydney Gladu?

  This is the investigation file from the Teachers' Student Practice Commission.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  Wow. That's insane.

• 11:29Sydney Gladu?

  We went down to Portland the week before Christmas in 2024 to walk Stacy through what the investigation file revealed. She was busy getting everything ready for her kid's Christmas. But on that particularly chilly day, she took some time to sit with us in the living room of an Airbnb and go through this stack of papers. Like a bunch of different pages. There's some that I've like flagged. We don't have to go through all of it. But, um, but yeah, there's some things in here we think that maybe you could help us make a bit more sense of. Like there's some information in here I think is maybe a little bit, not shocking, but just hard. We sat around the kitchen table with the harsh fluorescent lights on, a big contrast to the dark, wet day outside. And no one told you?

• 12:13Speaker 01

  No, I never saw this. No one ever contacted me. Only information I got is the information he was giving me. What is that?

• 12:21Sydney Gladu?

  So like, yeah, some of the notes are illegible. Some of them are a little bit more legible. For years, Stacy felt like this two-page PDF on the internet was the only kernel of truth she could point to. But that one kernel didn't seem to care about what had happened to her. It wasn't until we flipped through the investigation file that Stacy saw anyone even think of her.

• 12:43Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 12:44Sydney Gladu?

  Basically, I think that's your name, redacted, probably.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  I need to find out exactly what dates these two were married.

• 12:51Sydney Gladu?

  In handwriting that reminds me of my grandmother, the investigator had scribbled a note next to a redacted name. Former student, question mark? Like they were kind of looking into you too, which I thought, yeah, I was curious how you would fill out that.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  No one contacted me.

• 13:08Sydney Gladu?

  At the time, an individual was considered a student for 90 days after they graduated or left school. So the investigator may have been trying to see if Brett and Stacy began their relationship during that brief period of time when Stacy would have still been considered a student. That wasn't the case. But since then, the law actually changed. In 2024, just five months before Stacy, Katie and I were poring over these documents, the Oregon Legislature passed House Bill 4160, which changed the definition of a student to include the individual for a full calendar year after they graduate. It's not clear how this would have impacted Stacy's experience, but it's still an irony that sat with us as we started to read through this investigation. As we flipped through the pages, a story started to emerge

• 13:53Sydney Gladu?

  about the months that led up to the search of Stacy and Brett's loft. The superintendent of schools detailed it in an official letter sent to the executive director of TSPC. It all started when the school district's director of instructional technology, Ron Hops, got a call about some internet activity that may have violated the district's acceptable use policy. The district traced the computer to room 110 at Centennial High School, Brett's classroom. After that, they waited for the computer to access these sites again. And Mark Porterfield, assistant principal at the time, walked into the room to see who was using the computer.

• 14:34Sydney Gladu?

  The room was vacant by the time he got there, so he checked the hallway cameras. Here's Stacy reading from the finding of facts.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  In looking at the video, Porterfield saw Brett Fisher was the only person to exit the room following the time that the website was accessed.

• 14:49Sydney Gladu?

  These inappropriate sites were accessed multiple times over multiple days. There was no doubt in Ron Hops' mind that the access was intentional, not accidental. Three days later, on Friday, January 28, they monitored the computer again. The plan was to see if any inappropriate websites were accessed. The administration would walk into the room to determine who was at the computer. At 1:45 PM, the phone rang. The sites were being accessed again. Assistant Principal Porterfield unlocked the door and walked into the room.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  At the moment, Mark Porterfield entered the room, Fisher was on the website, christianmodel.net. But within seconds, the computer switched to a common homepage website.

• 15:37Sydney Gladu?

  The department noted that Fisher returned to the original website once Porterfield left the room. Quote, "Hops determined that the computer use was serious and extensive, before school, after school, during his prep time. It was not found that Fisher accessed the sites during his instructional time."

• 15:54Speaker 01

  However, it should be noted that Mr. Fisher may have had a student assistant during his preparation time. Mr. Fisher knowingly used his school computer equipment to receive sexually explicit materials. This is known to have occurred over many months of employment with the school district.

• 16:13Sydney Gladu?

  Brett was put on administrative leave and police officers searched his classroom. District Technology downloaded the use log for classroom 110. Here's Stacy reading that part of the report.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  For January 25, 2005, the log showed multiple inappropriate uses, some of which were clearly pornographic in nature. The sites included adult nudity and underage males and females engaging in sexual acts. Law enforcement told Hops that the sites observed provide enough evidence sufficient to establish this site as child pornography.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 16:55Sydney Gladu?

  We're only a few pages into this report when this bombshell surfaces. Stacy leans back in her chair, taking a few moments to digest what she's just read. Thousands of pages of pornography, including child sex abuse material, were accessed from the computer in Brett's classroom. Brett was never charged with viewing child sex abuse material.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  He told me that he had made the mistake of looking at pornography at school and that he was likely going to get fired. The way it was presented wasn't thousands of pages of pornography, including child pornography. It was like, I looked at some pornography and it got flagged. So in my mind, I was thinking, okay, you looked at porn. You shouldn't have done that on a school computer. That's idiotic, but you did it. I wasn't understanding the gravity of what actually the content that he had been looking at.

• 17:48Sydney Gladu?

  The report was written back in 2005 and 2006. Back then, it was called child pornography. But experts in the field are now referring to it as child sexual abuse material, or CSAM, and we should too. This is an important development in how we talk about these cases because the term pornography implies consent. Viewing or sharing CSAM is not a passive act. It's a direct crime that fuels the cycle of abuse. In 2024 alone, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children received a staggering 20 million reports of suspected child sexual exploitation, containing nearly 63 million images and videos. We wanted to know what this looked like at the local level in 2005. So we called someone

• 18:30Sydney Gladu?

  who actually worked at the Gresham Police Department during this time.

• 18:34Speaker 03

  My name is Richard Boyd. I was a computer forensic examiner for the Gresham Police Department.

• 18:41Sydney Gladu?

  Rich worked for Gresham PD for 20-plus years. Most of his career was spent investigating CSAM. Heads up, the audio quality isn't great.

• 18:50Speaker 03

  It shocks the conscience when you see it. It's, it's something that...

• 18:55Speaker 04

  Is definitive and not a question. And I can remember cases where I'd seen hundreds of thousands of images, videos, et cetera, and were literally having to leave the room because I felt like I was gonna vomit. It was so bad.

• 19:14Speaker 04

  When you see that exploitation, as well as the victimization of these children, it is just horrendous. And it can't help but affect you.

• 19:26Sydney Gladu?

  Hearing Rich describe just how devastating CSAM is brings me back to the central question of this case.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  Fisher was not prosecuted in US District Court or Multnomah County Circuit Court. I do not know why.

• 19:39Sydney Gladu?

  This is Stacy reading a note from the TSBC investigator back in 2005. So even the professionals examining the evidence were asking this question too. Why wasn't Brett Fisher charged? That TSBC investigator declined to comment, but we did ask Rich Boyd, because he was the computer forensic detective on Brett's case before it got kicked to Homeland Security.

• 20:02Speaker 03

  I mean, there were things pointing at him, you know, definitely. And as you saw, the school took action where they got rid of him.

• 20:13Sydney Gladu?

  Rich told us he mostly handled the forensic side of investigations. So we had to take his comments with a grain of salt. But this is the only person we could reach who had a connection to the case. He still didn't have a definitive answer about why Brett wasn't charged. I had one other question for Rich about the investigation. I wanted to know why the police department never contacted Stacy.

• 20:35Speaker 03

  At that point, he was married and the likelihood we were gonna get any information or she was gonna be a victim would be remote. As I recall, I think it was like, it was kind of like off limits. So once she got married to him, it was like, almost like, yeah, we're not gonna get anything anyway.

• 20:57Sydney Gladu?

  Ultimately, Stacy was never questioned by the police or by TSBC. So we don't have her voice in these accounts. That's why she's only learning about the extent of this investigation two decades later. But the TSBC report that we came to Portland to share with Stacy wasn't just about Brett's computer use. As we continued reading through the report that day, Stacy learned even more alarming details.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  She remembers Brett's behavior and described it as perverted. One time Brett told a group of his senior students that after they graduated, he would have them over for a barbecue. All he would wear would be an apron.

• 21:34Sydney Gladu?

  The school had received a number of complaints about Brett's inappropriate behavior with female students.

• 21:48Sydney Gladu?

  The TSBC investigation into Brett Fisher didn't just uncover his online activity, it also unearthed multiple complaints from parents and students. Here's Stacy reading the investigator's notes included in the TSBC report.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  Who was the parent she wrote the May 23, 2000 memo about?

• 22:09Sydney Gladu?

  The first complaint is detailed in a memo from the school district's Director of Human Resources, Charlene Harris. It's from May 2000, the year Stacy and Brett started dating. According to this memo, Mark Porterfield, the assistant principal, got a call from a parent who told him Brett Fisher was calling previous students, including her daughter and her daughter's friends. This parent said that Brett was inviting students to his home and offering them, quote, "any kind of drink they wanted." After this parent made the original complaint, they did not return the school's calls. Harris and Porterfield met with Brett to share the allegations. Here's what Brett said according to the memo.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  He firmly stated he had not called any previous students and would never do so.

• 22:55Sydney Gladu?

  Obviously, this conflicts with Stacy's story, that he called her and asked her out a year after graduation.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  Brett asked what would happen next. Shaking his boots, I'm sure. We assured him that this was a confidential meeting. Mark and I shared with Brett that once we walked out the door, the incident was over. Unless the mom called, came in, et cetera, then we would meet to share with him the latest information.

• 23:21Sydney Gladu?

  As far as we can tell, this is the only investigation from Centennial in response to this complaint. One confidential conversation with Brett.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  That's insane.

• 23:33Sydney Gladu?

  The second complaint about Brett Fisher that the TSBC investigator uncovered was from a mother of a student who graduated in 1998, the same year Stacy graduated. Here's Stacy reading the investigator's notes about the call. All the names are redacted as blank.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Ms. Blank stated that Blank and many of her friends had crushes on Mr. Fisher because he was so young and so attractive. But she became concerned when Mr. Fisher began showing up at athletic games, at her work site, and at her home. She said that he would leave Blank car notes, cards, and messages, sometimes inside a Ziploc bag so they didn't get wet in the rain. Often signed, "Love Brett XXOO." Blank was a teacher's assistant for Mr. Fisher. She told her mother that when she was cold in the classroom, Brett would give her his coat to wear over her shoulders and would rub her shoulders. Blank said that Brett would get too close inside of her space, and then this began to make her feel uncomfortable.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  Blank also said that Brett would have other students send her notes in other classes from him. At first Blank had a crush on him, but in time she began to think it was too weird to have a crush on Brett and the way that Brett was responding. She then went to her mother to tell about the situation.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  One time Brett told a group of his senior students that after they graduated, he would have them over for a barbecue, and all he would wear would be an apron.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  In high school, with another student who later married Brett, the student's name was Blank. She said that Blank told her that it bothered her how Brett was always hanging out with high school girls.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  After Blank discussed this with her mother and showed her the cards and notes, her mother confronted Brett about this.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  She did not like it that he was hanging around her daughter. She said that at times, there was a feeling that Brett was stalking her. Showing up at the house, driving by the house, showing up at her work site, et cetera. Brett denied that it had occurred. She said that Brett has been like this all the time he has been at CHS. Both Blank and her mother stated that they did not think Brett ever crossed the line with a student, but did see students after they had graduated from high school. Blank said that there were always rumors, though, with older girls.

• 25:55Sydney Gladu?

  This complaint was from a parent Stacy knew. We reached out, but due to their health, they were not available for an interview. But there was still more, a third complaint. And this complaint came from a different student. Stacy keeps reading.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  She remembers Brett's behavior and described it as perverted. She said she didn't have anything exciting to report, just that his behavior was strange. He would say to her, "Oh, you look hot today." One time Blank and Blank dressed as elves for a school assembly, and Brett said to them, "I wish you were my elves so I could be Santa Claus and you could sit on my lap and be naughty with my elves." Blank also said that it was strange that Brett would come to see her after work, and he would leave her notes and CDs. She said that he was like this with a lot of girls. Then after they graduated, he would contact them, date them, and try to have relationships with them. That is how he met his wife. It was like he was always looking for the girls that he could meet in high school, and then after they graduated, he would try to date them.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  She felt like he was always strange, but hoped that after marriage, he would become normal. Well, that's crazy.

• 27:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  I wonder who that person is.

• 27:06Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy always knew there were rumors. But now she was reading the words of her classmate, documented in an official investigation. Reading this account transported Stacy back to high school. She also remembered Brett dressing up a lot. We cracked open a yearbook and stopped on a photo of him at a pep rally.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  Another goofy picture.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Casually struts his stuff during the homecoming assembly. Fisher was part of the sophomores get, which took third.

• 27:38Sydney Gladu?

  This photo was taken in the Centennial Gym. He was wearing a white t-shirt and a tutu.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Mr. goofball.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's Brett right there. The cool teacher that can be in the assembly, but you're like, doing all this shit with girls behind the scenes. It just kind of bugs me.

• 27:54Speaker 05

  It's like you take that one photo of him in a funny costume.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, this is one lens, and then that same person is going into school records to find out when girls are turning 18 so he can start having sex with them. Same person. This goofy guy with a tutu and paint on his face, you know? But again, you're painting that picture of like, oh, I'm just fun. I'm the fun teacher. It's totally fine. Nothing weird is happening here. Red flag.

• 28:20Sydney Gladu?

  There's a name for this phenomenon, Dr. Jackal Mr. Hyde. It's become a trope for how we can understand the duality of people who can be a beloved community member and have these type of allegations against them.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  On the surface, it can look all totally normal and safe and good, and then there is this like, very dark side happening.

• 28:47Sydney Gladu?

  We moved to the living room to debrief about the documents.

• 28:52Sydney Gladu?

  Serious and extensive viewing of sexually explicit materials, including child sex abuse materials, district officials monitoring Brett's computer usage in real time, multiple complaints of inappropriate behavior with female students. This is a lot for Stacy to digest.

• 29:10Speaker 04

  I got it printed. I was like, damn, this is a stack of paper.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. The reading, how they did this thing was pretty tough. That was very, um...

• 29:23Speaker 01

  What a fucking idiot. I mean, what an idiot. To get caught, basically, switch websites and go back to it. I mean, that really speaks to how sick he is.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  Then he comes home to me and pretends like nothing is happening. And like, I don't know, that whole part is just psychotic.

• 29:44Sydney Gladu?

  I feel like I'm watching Stacy retreat into her own mind, replaying the day he came home, scanning through her memory for any shock on his face when the federal agents showed up, all while grappling with the Stacy-sized hole gaping from this report.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  I mean, they know now that we've got married, they should have been like, did anything happen? And I should have been on record saying yes or no. Yeah. You know?

• 30:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, the fact that they have these phone statements, but they don't call you.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  Why follow up with this?

• 30:10Speaker 04

  I don't...

• 30:12Speaker 01

  And not follow up? A former student who's married him. Who's honestly, like, kind of captive now.

• 30:19Sydney Gladu?

  In the state of Oregon, when a teacher loses their license, there's a public record of the revocation. That's the document that Stacy found back in 2020, the one that sparked this whole deep dive. But just because it was public for all these years doesn't mean she knew what to go looking for.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  I never saw this. I never saw the document. No one ever contacted me. Only information I got is the information he was giving me. I did not know the extent. You know, I kind of was like naive and just thinking, like, we all make mistakes. And like, I didn't know it was thousands of pages of pornography. I thought it was like, you know, you used it and you shouldn't have done that. I didn't know it was habitual.

• 31:00Sydney Gladu?

  For Stacy, the hardest part of this revocation order is the direct mention of CSAM, although it was called child pornography then.

• 31:08Speaker 01

  I did not know it was child pornography.

• 31:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  And I feel like somebody should have told me. That just really sticks with me because had I known the truth, I think I would have made very different decisions.

• 31:23Sydney Gladu?

  Now that we know the extent of the TSBC investigation into Brett's conduct, we had some questions about the language in his revocation order. It's the only public-facing document about why he had his license revoked. The revocation order establishes a number of findings of fact. We've had a voice actor read from the document. Finding number four on the order says,

• 31:44Speaker 06

  During the 2004 to 2005 school year, Mr. Fisher used the district computer to access thousands of sexually explicit internet sites.

• 31:53Sydney Gladu?

  Finding number five on the order says,

• 31:55Speaker 06

  Beginning in 1997, Mr. Fisher repeatedly failed to maintain professional student-teacher relationships with a number of female students who attended Centennial High School. Mr. Fisher sent unprofessional notes, contacted the female students at their homes and workplaces, and gave them gifts.

• 32:11Sydney Gladu?

  Those findings track with what we found in the investigation file. But finding number six is written a little differently.

• 32:18Speaker 06

  On January 27, 2005, the Gresham Police Department contacted US Customs Homeland Security and reported that Centennial School District found that a teacher had accessed internet websites from the school computer containing child pornography.

• 32:32Sydney Gladu?

  Did you catch that? This is the only line in all six of the findings that doesn't use "Mr. Fisher" and instead uses "a teacher." This is so subtle. The first time I read it, I did not catch the specificity of that phrasing. Why not use his name in this particular finding?

• 32:52Sydney Gladu?

  So we dug into the correspondence between Brett's appointed attorney and the investigator for TSBC, looking for an answer. In May of 2005, the investigator flat-out says to Brett's attorney,

• 33:05Speaker 06

  I'm sending you this rough draft for the purpose of obtaining your assistance in writing this so that your client is not subject to criminal prosecution based upon this agreement.

• 33:13Sydney Gladu?

  At this point, the draft the investigator sent uses "Mr. Fisher" on finding number six.

• 33:19Speaker 06

  Mr. Fisher used a district computer to access the internet to view child pornography sites.

• 33:25Sydney Gladu?

  Track changes show Brett's attorney proposed deleting the phrase "child pornography." Also in this round of revisions, another piece of information comes out. Brett's attorney proposed adding to finding number five.

• 33:37Speaker 06

  There's no evidence that Mr. Fisher's unprofessional student-teacher relationships involved sexual activities or attempts to engage in sexual activities.

• 33:44Sydney Gladu?

  A note in red pen that appears to be from the investigator says, I can't stick to this because it appears he tried to date them after they graduated.

• 33:55Sydney Gladu?

  Buried in the response from Brett's lawyer is a quick exchange of information.

• 34:00Speaker 06

  I will not be able to get a "we will not prosecute" letter from the feds or the Multnomah County DA's office, although I have been told that the investigations have concluded with no charges being filed.

• 34:11Sydney Gladu?

  Without a "we will not prosecute" letter, the target wasn't fully off Brett's back, meaning that Brett's attorney may not have wanted him to admit to anything that would imply guilt because the county DA had not committed to holding off on legal action if new evidence surfaced. And that may be how we end up with this final version of the revocation order, which includes a finding that a teacher accessed websites from a school computer containing child sexual abuse material, all because the door to prosecution wasn't technically closed yet.

• 34:58Sydney Gladu?

  We called Mark Porterfield, who's now retired but worked at Centennial High School for 35 years. Porterfield was the vice principal in 2005. He's the one who opened the door while Brett was closing inappropriate websites on his school computer. We wanted to talk to Porterfield about the parent and student complaints and the limited record of investigations from 1998 and 2000. My producer, Katie Klein, jumped in with the first question.

• 35:24Speaker 01

  Can we ask you a couple of questions about Brett? Like, just your initial impressions of meeting him and what he was...

• 35:33Speaker 03

  You know, I prefer not to go down that road, to be honest with you. You know, that was, God, early 2000s. That was 20 years ago, approximately. And, you know, I don't think it's appropriate for me to comment on all of that. You've talked to TSBC, so you've probably read the TSBC notes that are online. There's really nothing I could add to that conversation, to be honest with you.

• 36:02Sydney Gladu?

  It quickly became obvious that Porterfield wasn't going to talk about his role in Brett's investigation. Instead, he gave us a rundown of how these investigations were typically handled.

• 36:13Speaker 03

  As anybody in education, we're mandatory reporters. We have an obligation to look out for others, especially for kids. That's our job. You always react to any type of rumors. You follow through, investigate. You know, any time, and the few times that it did happen, we reacted positively, followed through with mandatory reporting, all of those type of things.

• 36:38Sydney Gladu?

  In 2004, one of the most comprehensive studies on educator sexual misconduct, the Shakeshaf Report, found that nearly 10% of US students in grades K through 12 reported some form of sexual misconduct by a staff member. In this study, sexual misconduct is defined as "physical, verbal, or visual behavior by an educator that's intended to sexually arouse the educator or child." That study came out in the thick of Porterfield's career as an educator. And I was curious how this felt for someone who was on the front lines.

• 37:05Speaker 03

  Your statistics said 10%, way, way, way, way much less than 1% on my time that I spent with those type of situations, to be honest with you. I appreciated parent calls. I appreciated parents, you know, feeling like they could have an open trust, an open conversation. I think you're always surprised by comments that are related to your subject matter. And again, that's where that obligation comes in, to follow through on that, investigate, involve, and then also follow through with a parent or parents that initiated that comment or telephone call or email.

• 37:48Sydney Gladu?

  So you wouldn't say that there was a particularly big problem with grooming?

• 37:54Speaker 03

  Not to my knowledge. I would say, you know, it probably happens in every school, as you said. The few that I was part of were very few. And I can guarantee at that time that as mandatory reporters, you would follow through on process, procedure, investigations, and then have closure on that and move to the direction that your investigation found out, the information, what was happening.

• 38:22Sydney Gladu?

  This question, I don't mean this directly about Brett, but I just mean in the general, because there is... I know there was another teacher who had married a student at Centennial, and I know that happened at my school. But in your perspective as like a professional educator, do you think that that is appropriate?

• 38:41Speaker 03

  Good question.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  Through my eyes, I think, you know,

• 38:50Speaker 03

  if there was grooming being done, those type of things, I would say that's probably totally inappropriate. Is it legal? I'll leave that up to somebody else to make the decision on that one. Meaning, if they're over 18, there's nothing illegal if they're out of school. Do I think it's a good idea? Yeah, I don't know. That's up to somebody else to decide.

• 39:14Sydney Gladu?

  I became a little obsessed with this question. Is it ever okay for a teacher to have a romantic relationship with a former student? I certainly had personal feelings about it. We called up another administrator from those years at Centennial, Kurt Heath. He was the principal for much of Brett's career. You'll hear Katie first.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  Is it ever okay for teachers to date their students?

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Well, I'd have a problem with it. But, you know, I mean, I don't know where they thought in their mind, again, it must have been taking place before she graduated, you know? So...

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Then again, that makes you a little nervous because that's, you know, if it was me, I would know. I couldn't, I couldn't do that.

• 39:57Sydney Gladu?

  Kurt retired in 2004, just a year before Brett's internet usage was flagged in 2005.

• 40:03Speaker 01

  Didn't surprise me when I heard this happened.

• 40:07Speaker 05

  I'm curious kind of what you heard about that or what the chatter was about Brett.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  I mean, I heard bits and pieces around from different people, but I mean, I just never, yeah, I wasn't one of his primary evaluators and one of my other administrators were. And they dealt with, with some of that, but it was really nothing during the school timeframe. It must have happened, you know, after the girl graduated that they, they got more serious. So I don't know.

• 40:39Sydney Gladu?

  I've noticed in these interviews, a lot of people tell me they don't know and they don't want to go there. We also reached out to Mark Baer. He was the Centennial High School principal in 2005. He declined to be interviewed. So I wondered, what are the adults in the room supposed to do? And did that happen at Centennial?

• 41:00Speaker 05

  Most abuse happens at the hands of someone that is known to us or our kids.

• 41:04Sydney Gladu?

  This is Kristy Keating, a former prosecutor and licensed attorney in the state of Washington. Kristy now educates parents in schools about grooming. When we got on the phone with her, she started telling us about grooming and how it happens. And within moments, Katie and I exchanged a look because every detail was there. Then we talked to another expert and heard the same and another. Here's that unwritten playbook that Kristy and other experts have identified in these cases.

• 41:33Speaker 05

  Grooming is the process that a would be offender goes through to gain access and then maintain access to a potential victim. The grooming process is really pretty consistent from offender to offender. It's really a pretty methodical way that they gain and then maintain access.

• 41:58Sydney Gladu?

  We're a long ways away from the stranger danger days, but it bears repeating that most abuse happens at the hands of someone a child knows. The next step is cultivating trust.

• 42:07Speaker 05

  There are circumstances, like when we talk about educator sexual misconduct, where the trust is almost assumed by virtue of the position that the individual holds. Then we will often see the provision of special gifts, special attention or privileges. It might be like the kid who's on the soccer team gets extra coaching, right? Then they will sort of experiment with isolating that child. So getting that child away from their safe adults, offering free babysitting, giving them rides home, having them help in their classroom after school. But they'll, they'll play around with isolating that child and see that the child feels okay about it, that nobody else is raising red flags.

• 42:52Speaker 05

  In that context, they will then work to create secrecy with the child. And then there will typically also be efforts made to make the child feel special or grown up or even sexy. And what you'll notice in all of those steps, so the identification of the victim, cultivation of adult trust, provision of gifts, the isolation of the child, the creation of secrecy and the efforts to make them feel special. Those all happen before any abuse has occurred.

• 43:19Sydney Gladu?

  No abuse has happened. The situation has been manipulated to make it possible and easier, and that doesn't happen overnight.

• 43:26Speaker 05

  We tend as humans to confuse likability with trustworthiness. And so we think that because the teacher is really likable, is really popular, is a good teacher, that that means they're inherently trustworthy. And those two things do not go hand in hand.

• 43:44Sydney Gladu?

  I'm reminded of what Stacy and I talked about back at Centennial as she was reflecting on all the teachers and school staff that saw her and Brett's relationship unfolding. The ones who told her she was mature for her age and attended her and Brett's wedding.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  As I look back on it, it's hard for me to comprehend other teachers knowing about that and not raising a red flag with the district or principal or vice principal. But it wasn't something that was like not out in the open. It wasn't something that was a secret. I think if you talk to the majority of people from the class that I graduated in, they would tell you the same thing.

• 44:21Sydney Gladu?

  So we started calling former students and teachers. There were lots of rumors, lots of teachers. I mean, he was a good looking guy, but sheesh.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  There was a lot of rumors around Brett Fisher at the time. There was this good old boys culture at Centennial during this time. It almost was like normal, not quite normal, but it was a little bit of, oh, we've seen this before. I will say that those teachers had to have known. There's no way they couldn't have.

• 44:49Sydney Gladu?

  Oh, boy, I, I almost hate to see Centennial painted with this brush. There's been, you know, rumors for years and then there's rumors after me. But if everyone knew, why did no one stop it?

• 45:01Speaker 01

  They just want to protect their reputation. I'm a human being who is fucked up by a system that was not protecting me, wasn't protecting my friends. We're all marked by that.

• 45:12Sydney Gladu?

  Who was that system protecting next time?

• 45:37Sydney Gladu?

  Thank you so much for listening to Not Just a Terrible Story. We are an independent production. You can support us by sharing this podcast with a friend and leaving a five star review wherever you are listening right now. Or hop over to our Substack, terriblestory.substack.com. There's a lot of great free stuff over there. Archival photos, resources and stories that didn't make it into the show. And you can also get early and ad free episodes as a paid subscriber. To get in touch, send us an email at [email protected]. This podcast was created and produced by Katie Klein and me, your host, Sydney Gladu. Story editing by Lacey Roberts. Show art by Casey Burnell. Original music and mixing by Sean Simmons. Additional music from Blue Dot Sessions.

• 46:21Sydney Gladu?

  Maria Palaiologos is our strategic growth advisor. Thank you to our voice actor, Omen Thomas Said. Support provided by Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press. And a very special thank you to Stacy Love, whose bravery, honesty and determination made this series possible. May her truth telling give others permission to trust their own stories, use their voices and know that they are not alone. If you or anyone you know is experiencing sexual violence and needs help, please visit rainn.org. That's R A I N N dot O R G. Or call the national hotline at 1-800-656-HOPE. Or text HOPE to 64673. If you'd like to learn more about educator sexual misconduct, check out the show notes for additional resources.