The Smashing Machine And What's Making Us Happy

Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson and Emily Blunt star in the new sports biopic The Smashing Machine. Johnson plays Mark Kerr, a UFC champion who is reeling from his first major loss in the ring and confronting an addiction to painkillers. Directed by Benny Safdie (Uncut Gems), the wrestling drama pulls out all the classic moves in the awards season playbook. We can smell what The Rock is cooking – but is it a hearty meal? Follow Pop Culture Happy Hour on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/nprpopculture https://letterboxd.com/nprpopculture/ See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

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• 0:41Aisha Harris?

  OK, stop me if you've heard this one. A charismatic entertainer becomes a mega-action movie star hopping from franchise to franchise, building a middle-of-the-road brand that appeals across every conceivable demographic. But eventually, being an extremely popular entertainer is not enough. The new goal: to be taken seriously as an actor. Enter Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson and his capital A acting turn in The Smashing Machine. The wrestling drama pulls out all the classic moves in the awards season playbook. Biopic, struggles with addiction, facial prosthetics. We can smell what The Rock is cooking, but is it a hearty enough meal? I'm Aisha Harris, and today we're talking about The Smashing Machine on Pop Culture

• 1:24Aisha Harris?

  Happy Hour from NPR. Joining me today is the host of NPR's It's Been a Minute, Brittany Luce. Welcome back, Brittany.

• 1:31Speaker 03

  Thank you. Good to be here.

• 1:32Aisha Harris?

  Also with us is one of the hosts of NPR's Code Switch podcast, Jean Denby. Welcome back to you, too.

• 1:38Speaker 04

  What's good with you, Ayesha?

• 1:39Aisha Harris?

  Great to have you. And rounding out the panel is freelance music and culture journalist, Rianna Cruz. Welcome back to you, too, Rianna. Happy to be here. Yes, yes, happy to have all of you. I feel like this is going to be a very fun, very interesting conversation, because this is a very, not fun, but interesting movie, I will say. So in The Smashing Machine, Dwayne Johnson plays the real-life Mark Kerr, a UFC champion who's known as one of the early pioneers of mixed martial arts in the United States. Now, as Mark reels from his first major loss in the ring, he's forced to confront an addiction to painkillers. His single-minded focus on training for the next big fight also threatens his relationship with his devoted but exasperated girlfriend, Dawn, who's played by Emily Blunt.

• 2:23Aisha Harris?

  Big accent work going on here, I'm just going to say.

• 2:28Aisha Harris?

  The Smashing Machine is the solo directorial debut of Benny Safdie, who usually collaborates with his brother Josh, and it's in theaters now. Rianna, I'm gonna start off with you. Just give me your initial thoughts about this movie.

• 2:42Speaker 05

  I do want to say that I enjoy movies where The Rock is capital A acting. Like, I love Southland Tales. I think he's great in that. I love Pain and Gain. I think he's great in that as well. I saw The Smashing Machine as a return to The Rock capital A acting, as you referred to it. I don't really like Jungle Cruise Jumanji. Like, I think that's neither here nor there. But I was excited, and I liked it? Question mark with an asterisk, you know? I like sports movies writ large, and I like a fighting movie generally. This movie is very by the numbers, but I like those numbers, so I'm not too upset by it. Really, my only thing was that I had trouble figuring out the why. You know, why this story?

• 3:27Speaker 05

  Why now? Why these people? What is the purpose? You know, that was really my main gripe with it. But again, by the numbers fighting movie, didn't really mind it.

• 3:38Aisha Harris?

  Yes, okay, I'm so glad you brought that up, because I had very similar feelings of like, who is this for? I think we know who it's for.

• 3:47Speaker 04

  The Academy.

• 3:48Aisha Harris?

  Yes, yes, yes. Gene, jump in here. Tell us how you feel about it.

• 3:51Speaker 04

  I'm so glad Rianna said that, because I was like, but why this dude? Apparently, he was a good fighter, but not like all-time great, you know what I mean? He had struggled with substance abuse, but it actually seemed like he kicked it pretty quickly, the least ways portrayed in the movie, right? Like, all of the sort of big, sort of hinge moments in the plot happened like in the first 30, 40 minutes. He is a person who is in recovery, and he is a person who's already lost the big fight. Like, what is happening now? Like, you know what I mean? I told my friend I was gonna see the screening of The Smashing Machine, and she was like, oh, you mean the new Dwayne Johnson movie? And I was like, Dwayne Johnson? Would you call a Mr. T movie the Lawrence Terrell movie? Like, what are we doing right now? Like, you know what I mean? The Rock has been very open about his, like, ambition, right? Like, even if you're like, oh, The Rock is doing a pretty good job in this movie,

• 4:36Speaker 04

  it's hard not to see it through the lens of like, this is a very specific career choice that he is making. I'm sorry, Dwayne Johnson is making a very specific choice in this movie.

• 4:46Aisha Harris?

  Brittany, let us know. How do we feel about this?

• 4:49Speaker 03

  I was mixed on the movie. There were elements of it that I liked. Like, I thought that Dwayne Johnson gave a very competent performance, playing a real-life figure. Obviously, like, when you're playing a real person, especially when that real person is still alive, he threaded the needle pretty well in playing this guy and actually kind of nailing his manner. I feel like Benny Safdie is somebody who has a lot of, like, heart and enthusiasm, and that came through. I understood the objective of the character. But I didn't understand, like, the deeper reason why he did anything that he did. Like, why did he wrestle? Other than physical pain, it seemed like maybe something else going on that he was kind of wrestling with.

• 5:32Speaker 03

  But like, we don't find out what that is. We were not let in on a deeper motivation for why he does anything, why he's so good. So I didn't know anything about UFC. I don't like watching people get punched in the face. Other stuff, I'm like, eh, whatever. Punch in the face, I can't deal with it. I hadn't heard of Mark Kerr. I didn't know who he was. Movie's done. I went and looked him up, and I was like, oh, OK, if there was a real-life person that you could talk to to kind of get deeper insights into the character, why wasn't some of that deeper stuff there? One last thing. I saw it in IMAX in Manhattan, like, at Lincoln Square. I felt like it was kind of intense. I had this feeling of like, OK, I can't, I really can't escape the brutality that's happening on screen. I was breathing in The Rock's sweat

• 6:15Speaker 03

  in a way that didn't necessarily augment the film experience for me.

• 6:19Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, I mean, it does seem like an interesting choice to make this movie, The Smashing Machine, IMAX. Like, I don't think it necessarily necessitates that.

• 6:27Speaker 03

  No.

• 6:27Aisha Harris?

  The same question that we're all kind of dancing around is like, what is the point of this movie? And the most, like, crass and cynical version of this is like, it's a vanity project. It's for The Rock. But you also have to look at it, I think, from like, I sense that Benny Safdie, who is, of course, a lover of especially 70s cinema, and if you look at everything from Uncut Gems to Good Time, like, that could have been made in the 70s with, like, James Caan. It's a very insular character study, in a way. And when I looked at the production notes, the word "transform" or "transformation" or "transformative" is used no less than eight times in the production notes for this.

• 7:05Speaker 03

  Are they referring to the prosthesis that The Rock is wearing?

• 7:08Aisha Harris?

  The prosthesis, but also, like, the physical tra- I'm like, I don't know how much of- The Rock has always been-

• 7:13Speaker 03

  Big guy.

• 7:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's always gigantic.

• 7:15Aisha Harris?

  These are the words you use when you are trying to get awards. But I also think like, I was kind of mixed on it as well, but I actually came out liking it more than I thought I would. I don't actually think The Rock is transforming all that much in this movie. I think it's actually very suited to who he seems like he would be like in real life. I actually feel as though this could have been a movie about Dwayne The Rock Johnson, more so than it could be about this guy I've never heard of until this movie. Because everything about him, the way he is so single-mindedly focused. He has this way of talking to Don, the Emily Blunt character, where he's clearly trying to be as nice as possible. And I don't want you to think that I'm a bad person, but also I'm kind of resent you and I'm kind of condescending.

• 7:59Aisha Harris?

  And there's a way I can see The Rock being like that in real life of like having, he has this like personality trait where he's like, I need to please everyone. But also if you annoy me, I'm gonna dig it a little bit. And I think that's why this movie worked for me as much as it did, even though I did still come away being like, I don't know if we needed this movie. The other thing I find funny is that at the end of this movie, there's like a postscript on the screen.

• 8:24Speaker 03

  Oh, that ground my gears, man.

• 8:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:28Aisha Harris?

  The postscript, I'm paraphrasing here, but it says something along the lines of like, today fighters earn millions of money doing this and everyone knows their name.

• 8:34Speaker 04

  Everybody knows their name. And I was like, that's not true.

• 8:37Speaker 03

  No.

• 8:37Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 8:38Aisha Harris?

  Hold on, no. And I wondered, is this supposed to be ironic? Because every time you think this movie is gonna zig, it zags. And every time you think, as you said, this is gonna be an addiction story. Actually, no, it's more about like a recovery story. And I found that both frustrating, but also I appreciated that it didn't feel like your typical sports biopic.

• 8:56Speaker 04

  And I literally had this in my head, it was like, this movie's zigs where it's supposed to zag. And but the thing is that the places where it zigs, it doesn't really go anywhere, right?

• 9:04Speaker 03

  No, the film doesn't use those moments of surprise to like propel it to anything.

• 9:09Speaker 05

  It kind of does the same thing like over and over again.

• 9:12Speaker 03

  And I didn't think the movie was bad. I was engrossed when I was watching it. The other thing is, is that the character's hair is curlier than The Rock's hair. The Rock is a man. Of African American descent. So I was like, is this man black? Like, is there a detail here we're missing about this? So I found out later, the man is Puerto Rican. But I'm not saying you have to explain it, but like The Rock, like he's raceless in his public persona. And a lot of the film roles that he takes also make his race kind of irrelevant. But then in a movie about a real-

• 9:45Aisha Harris?

  Well, I mean, he is, but he's not. Because if you think about, he had his, that TV show that was like loosely based on his life.

• 9:53Speaker 03

  Young Rock.

• 9:54Aisha Harris?

  He does acknowledge his roots in that way. But I also understand what you're saying, Brittany.

• 9:58Speaker 03

  But there's a racial ambiguity that he has profited from immensely. But then there's a story about this guy who, I don't know how much being Puerto Rican meant to Mark, I have no clue. But I find it hard to believe that he would be in the, surrounded by white people throughout the entire movie. Does this matter to the story? If this was left out, does that mean anything? I'm not saying he needed to have like a breakdown about his identity or discuss it with his girlfriend even. But I also am wondering, like, being a Latino man who's regarded as the smashing machine, who's basically like never lost a fight, the fact that that was completely unexplored and completely untouched, who even is this guy? Like, I don't even feel like I really know that much about him by the end.

• 10:40Speaker 05

  I didn't know he was Puerto Rican. That's news to me, that there was-

• 10:44Aisha Harris?

  As I said.

• 10:45Speaker 05

  A Puerto Rican UFC fighter doing the thing.

• 10:49Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 10:49Speaker 05

  I feel like I should see this dude on Puerto Rican Day Parade floats, you know what I mean?

• 10:54Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 10:54Speaker 05

  That's bro.

• 10:55Speaker 03

  One thing that did kind of stick out to me that is kind of a big thing for The Rock to have surmounted to play this role is that I think you might be around the same age as the guy this movie is about, but we're going like 25, 30 years back in time. And so like, in a way, like, he is too old for the part, but I felt like that was maybe an intentional choice. Part of what is, I think, we're supposed to connect with is The Rock. It's like the rockness of it all.

• 11:23Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, it is interesting how insular this entire movie feels. We have this relationship between Mark and Don. Emily Bond is doing her best and I appreciate her trying to do her best.

• 11:37Speaker 03

  That's the best way to put it.

• 11:37Aisha Harris?

  But it also just winds up being the most.

• 11:41Speaker 03

  Long suffering girlfriend.

• 11:43Speaker 05

  I was gonna say, it reminds me of like Heidi Gardner's character from SNL. The like, every girlfriend in a boxing movie. And it's just this girl that's like, just gets upset and is like, I didn't want you to fight today. Stuff like that.

• 11:58Aisha Harris?

  And again, like you can both kind of understand why Mark would find her irritating. But at the same time, it's like, she's just trying to love you, man. And you are too busy chugging your protein drinks and doing whatever. And when she doesn't do it right, he's very like, you know, I use like two bananas instead of the, or like, it was something very digging. But also we have Mark and the other Mark, Mark Coleman, who's both like his training buddy slash trainer, sort of, but then also they compete against each other. He's played by Ryan Bader.

• 12:29Speaker 03

  He was so good. He's a real fighter, right?

• 12:31Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, he's a real fighter. And I, I was actually very impressed by him. I, that was an interesting storyline. But again, it just comes down to what is this movie trying to do? And I think that, maybe I'm reaching here, but it does feel as though Benny Safdie's trying to like, subvert the sports movie. I mean, this could also just be like trying to, you know, burnish this guy's reputation. Cause he's still alive and he's, has input or has signed off on this movie at the very least. The soundtrack, I have to say, is quite great.

• 13:03Speaker 05

  I agree. That was one of the things that I loved about it. I thought the needle drops were excellent. The Jungleland needle drop really floored me.

• 13:09Aisha Harris?

  Early on, there's like Lil Suzie, the Latin freestyle, Take Me In Your Arms.

• 13:13Speaker 04

  Lil Suzie, oh my god.

• 13:14Speaker 05

  Yes. It makes sense that he's Puerto Rican, cause you know, hearing that, I was like, okay.

• 13:19Speaker 04

  Like freestyle was such a specific Puerto Rican east coast moment in like the early 90s.

• 13:25Speaker 03

  Generational.

• 13:25Speaker 04

  Generational, it's like, it's like before I knew that the dude was Puerto Rican, I was like, what an interesting song choice there.

• 13:30Speaker 05

  I had that thought as well. As he's like doing drugs and then Take Me In Your Arms is playing, I was like, okay, this, this is kinda rad.

• 13:38Aisha Harris?

  I love the, the music on here. I also have to say the score. What also feels like a little bit of subverting of what you usually expect with these movies is the score oftentimes when they're fighting in the ring, you're hearing like a jazz score, kind of likening it to something that's a little bit more fluid and dancy and sensual in a way. The contrast there worked for me. And that score was by Nala Sinefro, who's this Caribbean Belgian experimental jazz musician. And so that's why I kind of feel as though like it seems like Benny Sack is really trying to do something different here. And even just the fact that it's shot on film, but then it's also shot on like what he calls BHS. Like, a lot of these directors this year, I don't know if they're taking a page from Ryan Coogler, but like they're explaining, you know,

• 14:23Aisha Harris?

  this division or let me explain to you what you need to see. And I'm like, okay, film is back, baby. Yes, let's do it.

• 14:28Speaker 05

  That's what's up.

• 14:29Speaker 04

  One of the things I really dug about the movie, though, is like the sort of grubbiness of this like early sort of primordial MMA space. Like, if you think of like, I don't know, A League of Their Own, very different movie, but like a movie in which like about this sort of upstart, sort of scrappy league, inhabited entirely by people who just are really diehard about this thing. I think there's something about this movie that was kind of endearing when that level was like, okay, that sort of comes across in this Mark Kerr character. He's just like somebody who seems to like be really earnest about, like, I like to do this.

• 14:58Aisha Harris?

  It's orgasmic, as he says at one point. I agree with you. Like, this movie does do a good job of sort of like getting at that. Even if we don't fully understand Mark Kerr's motivations, his specific motivations, you can see how that culture sort of like encourages people to go to be just obsessive about it. Like with any sort of sport that is not going to get you highly paid, like you have to be obsessed with it or else why are you doing it?

• 15:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:23Aisha Harris?

  It does kind of get at that, I think.

• 15:25Speaker 05

  I really like when The Rock gets serious. Like, I bring up Michael Bay's Pain and Gain.

• 15:29Aisha Harris?

  Ah, such a good movie.

• 15:30Speaker 05

  You know, where he's playing a meathead, but he's doing it really well. And in Southland Tales, the Richard Kelly movie, you know, he's kind of doing like a sort of off-the-wall paranoid.

• 15:42Speaker 03

  It's pretty good and it's serious and he's really like putting his whole foot into serious acting there. I think a name that we talked about before we started recording is Dave Batista, right? A fellow wrestler who does a lot of serious roles. Rockstar Knock at the Cabin was like, I could do this.

• 15:59Speaker 04

  Even sort of John Cena sort of doing this thing where he's like, he's like very self-deprecating and sort of like, you know, like willing to be the butt of a joke. The Rock, it feels like there's a sort of humanity that The Rock, his image has precluded him from like inhabiting on screen than I think a bunch of his other fellow wrestlers have done.

• 16:15Speaker 03

  This is my belief is that The Rock's tether is Dave Batista. And the thing about Dave Batista is that like, they both have a similar thing, as with John Cena, but Dave Batista is like really kind of the artiste of all, all three of them. They all have like, I wouldn't say it could be an obstacle or a feature, depending on what kind of roles you're thinking of, of their physicality. I imagine that like, it can be maybe difficult to play a guy, you know what I mean? If you are like 6'5", 300 pounds of solid muscle. I am curious to see how The Rock will continue to advance his more serious actorly roles

• 16:54Speaker 03

  after this film. I am curious to see how he could approach playing someone who is not a UFC fighter and not a wrestler, not a professional football player. I find Dave Batista like riveting on screen. He has something very soulful about him. There is something that he's able to access and maybe it's because he doesn't have a persona outside of himself in the same way The Rock has a persona outside of himself. And so it makes Dave Batista to me more accessible on screen as a guy who could be another guy. Whereas like, I have to contend with him being The Rock before I even get to him being Dwayne Johnson, the actor, before I can then even get to the character. So I'm curious.

• 17:36Aisha Harris?

  I do wonder if part of that stems from the fact that the way he sort of approaches career, which is that he's never really sought to be the star, Dave Batista, like he's the side character. He's okay, it seems, with playing smaller roles and The Rock has never really been that. Like, it's a rock movie. No matter what, it's gonna be a rock movie. I'm still waiting on a Hobbs and Shaw sequel. I'm happy he's doing this, but give me, give me more Hobbs and Shaw. I'm just saying.

• 18:07Speaker 05

  And I follow wrestling. I follow what the highest profile wrestlers are doing. You know, Cody Rhodes was in Naked Gun. But I'm excited to see what The Rock has cooking in the future.

• 18:20Speaker 05

  Is what I will say.

• 18:21Aisha Harris?

  Well said, well said. Well, tell us what you think about The Smashing Machine. You can find us on Facebook at facebook.com slash PCHH and on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com slash NPR Pop Culture. We'll leave a link for that in our episode description. Up next, what's making us happy this week.

• 18:40Speaker 06

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• 20:14Aisha Harris?

  Hey there. Before we get back to the show, if Pop Culture Happy Hour has ever helped you explain Barbenheimer, survive a Marvel phase, or pretend you understood Severance, do us a favor and leave a five-star review. Channel your inner culture critic and let us know why you love the show. Thanks so much. And now it's time for our favorite segment of this week and every week, what's making us happy. Brianna, let us know. What is making you happy this week?

• 20:38Speaker 05

  The movie that is making me happy this week is Dead of Winter, starring Emma Thompson and Judy Greer. It's perfect for Friday afternoon. You know, you're like, huh, I have nothing to do today. Let me see a movie. You pull up AMC A-list, you walk into the theater. It's all old ladies. You know you're gonna get a good flick when you walk into the theater and everybody's like yapping and it's a bunch of old people. Love that. It's a great genre thriller. Emma Thompson essentially plays a Fisher woman.

• 21:07Aisha Harris?

  Sold. I'm sold.

• 21:09Speaker 05

  It's set in Minnesota, so you get like rip-off Fargo accents from everybody in it. And essentially, Emma Thompson sees kidnapping happen. She sees a girl get taken and she makes it her mission to free this girl. It's a pretty good flick, pretty solid. I have been thinking about it all week and I feel like it's underseen. So that's what's making me happy this week.

• 21:34Aisha Harris?

  Nice. So that's Dead of Winter and it's in theaters now. Thanks so much, Brianna. I am also sold. That sounds great. So thank you for that. Jean, what is making you happy this week?

• 21:45Speaker 04

  So over the last four years, I guess like post-pandemic, I've become a bit of a degenerate. And I didn't realize the extent of my degeneracy around this one particular video game called Football Manager. And if you don't know what Football Manager is...

• 21:57Aisha Harris?

  No, I have no clue.

• 21:59Speaker 04

  Imagine playing a game that is about soccer, but it's only, 75% of the game is answering emails and filling out spreadsheets.

• 22:08Aisha Harris?

  What?

• 22:09Speaker 04

  And the game actually keeps like a ticker of how long you've been playing. I think I'm on like 6,000 hours or something like that. I'm like, wait, how is this possible? Like I'll often have it like playing in the background as I'm doing other stuff all the time. There's a million different ways to immerse yourself in this like completely pretend world of playing spreadsheet soccer. If you are like a Sims girly or one of those people like this is the closest sports game to that.

• 22:31Aisha Harris?

  Okay, I was a Sims girly. Thank you, Jean.

• 22:37Aisha Harris?

  Football manager. All right, Brittany, what is making you happy this week?

• 22:41Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh, I love dance music. I love to hear a soulful vocal over a really thumping beat. And so I was overjoyed when Rachelle Jordan released her most recent album, Through the Wall. Yes, you understand. Oh, my gosh. Really breathy, but precise and beautiful vocals over really groovy, but still, mm, mm, like beats that hit. There is a song called Crave. That was one of my songs of the summer. I was bumping it every single day. It's just about like, I don't know, craving the feeling of being close to the one that you love.

• 23:38Speaker 03

  Having a nice, cozy, sexy album like this, I just feel like it's a perfect pairing. So it's Rachelle Jordan, Through the Wall. It's so good, so, so, so good.

• 23:51Aisha Harris?

  Awesome. Thank you so much, Brittany. Well, I'm gonna keep us in the music, in music territory. And my girl, my favorite. I mean, look, I am a lifelong lamb. And Mariah Carey is back. She is back, baby. I am so happy. Her new album is called Here for It All. It's her first new studio album in seven years. I'm Here, I'm Here for It, I am Here for It All. It is, it is Mariah being sassy, she's being petty. It also, like, it finally seems like she's acknowledging and accepting that her voice is not what it once was. And so it's not overmanipulated or overproduced. She sounds very good.

• 24:33Aisha Harris?

  And I love that she is embracing that aspect of her voice now. And I think, though, the final song on the album, which is the title song, to me, might stand up as one of her best ballads of all time. And that is where I think you see the most of her using her voice in all these different ways. And when you get to the chorus towards the end of the first half of the song, because this is an epic song, it just works. Let's hear a little bit of Here for It All.

• 25:19Aisha Harris?

  Yes, I love it. I'm just so happy. Wow.

• 25:22Speaker 04

  That's diminished voice Mariah Carey doing all that. Isn't that bananas? Isn't that tell you where she started?

• 25:27Aisha Harris?

  I know. Still great. Still great. She hasn't made a bad album, so. Here for it all, Mariah Carey. That's what's making me happy this week. And if you want links for what we recommended, plus more recommendations, sign up for our newsletter at npr.org/popculturenewsletter. Rihanna Cruz, Brittany Luce, Jean Demby, thanks so much for being here. This was such a fun, fun conversation.

• 25:49Speaker 04

  This was so fun. Appreciate you.

• 25:50Aisha Harris?

  Thank you. I had a blast. Thank you. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger, Janaye Morris, and Mike Katsof, and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello, Come In provides our theme music. And thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Aisha Harris. We'll see you all next week.

• 26:09Speaker 06

  Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors.