Pamela Anderson & Gia Coppola

Pamela Anderson is having a career revival thanks to much lauded performance in THE LAST SHOWGIRL. Here she joins the film's director, Gia Coppola, to chat about this major moment in her career and how she's met the moment. Recorded at the 92nd Street Y. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to Quince.com/happysadco for 365 day returns and free shipping! UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS 1/20 -- Adam Scott at 92Y in NY -- Tickets here Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

  You have to believe in yourself before others do. You have to respect yourself so others can. And I've learned that, but I am... I don't know, I think I kind of just went through a weird time. But like I said, I look at all my life experience now and everything that's happened, and to be able to do something like this and be able to use that, all that life experience, and I'm like, "Okay, that was worth it." It was worth it.

• 0:49Speaker 02

  Prepare your ears, humans. "Happy, Sad, Confused" begins now.

• 0:56Josh Horowitz?

  How's it going, everybody? Welcome. I'm Josh Horowitz, and today on "Happy, Sad, Confused", we're live at the 92nd Street Y with Pamela Anderson and Giacopola, everybody. Thank you so much for being here. What a special night. You guys here in New York City are very privileged to be one of the first audiences to see this fantastic movie. "The Last Showgirl", as you can now tell your friends and family, is an extraordinary piece of work, isn't it? What a beautiful film. I was privileged enough to see this when it debuted at the Toronto Film Festival, and I knew I needed to talk to these women about this amazing film. As you know, from seeing the movie,

• 1:38Josh Horowitz?

  it is a character study about a woman at a crossroads in her life, and it really features a career-redefining role for the one and only icon that is Pamela Anderson. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. It is the third feature from an extraordinary filmmaker, Giacopola, so I'm not going to waste any more time with my talk, because we want to hear from them. Please give a warm New York City welcome to Pamela Anderson and Giacopola, everybody. Come on out, guys.

• 2:33Josh Horowitz?

  The longer you clap, the less time we have to talk, guys. Come on, there's a lot to talk about. No, congratulations. I mean, I guess my first question is like when you're making this, do you ever even entertain the idea of how a film like this is being received? Because this is, this is the dream, I would think, for both of you. What it's been like so far?

• 2:53Speaker 04

  No, you just, I mean, making it was so much fun. I feel like we weren't even sort of thinking about the, this extent of it. But it's, it's been wonderful.

• 3:06Josh Horowitz?

  About for you, did you allow yourself to dream a little bit about how it would be received, or was that too far ahead to think?

• 3:12Speaker 01

  I was just trying to get it done.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  But I mean, this is a bonus, and this is exciting, because it's nice that people feel what you're feeling in the film, and so it's exciting.

• 3:24Josh Horowitz?

  So first I just want to, you know, we're obviously in New York City. I watched, by the way, you guys, if you want a really good double feature, watch the documentary about Pamela Anderson after this, because it is extraordinary.

• 3:39Josh Horowitz?

  And that film culminates in a really special moment in your career, being here in New York City on Broadway.

• 3:47Josh Horowitz?

  So was it more nerve-wracking to be on Broadway? Or to expose yourself in this kind of a film, in this kind of challenging role?

• 3:54Speaker 01

  I think playing Roxy in Chicago on Broadway was the warm-up.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. It taught me a lot, just about the, the culture backstage, you know, you know, performers and these people that have been doing these roles for 20 years, you know, talking about what they're gonna make for dinner and what their kids are doing backstage. And then, you know, they're cute, and then they're onstage. So that was interesting to kind of have that experience before doing this film.

• 4:20Josh Horowitz?

  So, talk to me a little bit about, before we get into the production and the birth of this film, as I said, this premiered just a few months ago at the Toronto Film Festival. As I understand it, you hadn't seen the film prior to that night, so what were you thinking stepping into that premiere?

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Terrified. None of us had seen the film. Gia was insistent that we were all gonna see it together, and we're gonna see it on the big screen with an audience, and so all of us were in tears. She traumatized us. But it was such a happy surprise. I'd seen just a tiny little bit when I did some ADR for one little line, and I remember looking at it, and I don't wanna look at it, and I looked at it and went, "Oh, okay. We transformed. We did it." I just felt like, even just from a clip of it, I felt that it was a complete character.

• 5:10Josh Horowitz?

  Gia, that night for you, did you know, I mean, you knew the film worked for you, obviously, but you never know how an audience is going to receive it. Was that a relief, the validation of that crowd? And what were you feeling that night?

• 5:22Speaker 04

  I really felt good about this movie. I felt like I was done with it, and I'd tried every iteration, and I was ready to share it. But it was really the most thrilling to get to share it with the cast and sit next to Pamela as she was watching it, and so I could kinda keep it insulated in just that little bubble to just share it with them.

• 5:46Josh Horowitz?

  Has your family seen the film? Have your boys seen the film? What have they said about it?

• 5:52Speaker 01

  Dylan saw it last night for the first time, and Brandon's gonna see it tomorrow. I kinda kept him away from the set, even though Brandon's the one who ended up bringing me the script because my first agent turned it down. It's a whole long story, it's crazy. I always feel like, you know, you gotta fight for everything, there's always some hurdle. That was the hurdle, so it's even more precious because it almost slipped through my fingers. He's seeing it tomorrow. He said he'd rather believe the hype.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  I was like, oh gosh, Brandon, come on. My kids are, yeah, they're very supportive. Yeah, it was good. So anyway, my family has, my mom's dying to see the teaser, you know, she's dying to see anything. My mom is glittery from head to toe and she just thinks this is gonna be amazing. So she's very excited.

• 6:37Josh Horowitz?

  This obviously, okay, there are a lot of things to talk about with respect to this film, but one of them is Las Vegas, which we've seen depicted in many a film. As I understand it, Gia, this has been a locale, a fascination for you for many years. What's been the lure of Vegas for you as a filmmaker, as a storyteller?

• 6:55Speaker 04

  Gosh, I don't, I don't really know why I'm so fascinated by it. My, my family thinks I'm really weird because I, I really enjoy it there. I'm so curious of this sort of, you know, what is it like to live in this land of kind of magic and illusion and, and who are the people that kind of make this happen and what's their day-to-day life like? And I've always loved going to take pictures there. I would, I would drive cross-country during college. I went to college in upstate New York and I would, I was a photo major and I would just stop and take pictures. And I love the art critic, Dave Hickey, who

• 7:35Speaker 04

  was a professor there, and the way he would sort of articulate the visuals of Las Vegas. And Louis Theroux did an interesting documentary on just like gambling and how this city can like kind of overtake a person. And it just, there's no other place like it.

• 7:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it is the contrast of, of the amazing artifice, the glossy artifice between the backstage, literally the backstage of who, who actually keeps Vegas going. It occurred to me, like, it couldn't be more of a different film, but your grandfather made a Vegas film. One From the Heart is a movie I remember watching growing up. It came out way before you were even born. But did that factor in at all, or is that just a unique thing that he happened to have a?

• 8:18Speaker 04

  I love that movie. His version of Vegas is so different than this, but yeah, it's one of my favorites. So I think I was just always excited that he made a movie in Vegas, though he never made it in Vegas, that's all in a studio.

• 8:33Josh Horowitz?

  He, by the way, as you all know, he was in Toronto with his own film, and I interviewed him recently, and he made a point of being, you know, he's a proud grandpa when it comes to your work, so that's touching to see. Okay, let's talk about the script. Kate Gerson writes the screenplay. What did you make of it? Did you know immediately this was the way to tell this kind of story you've been looking to tell?

• 8:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I think for years I'd sort of been wanting to tell a story in Vegas, but I didn't really have, like, that setting always was appealing to me, but there was no story that kind of felt right. And my cousin, Robert Schwartzman, and I, we've been making films together, just like with a camcorder, and it only felt right that we would sort of eventually make a movie together. But we really wanted to make something, you know, Cassavetes-like and John Baker-esque, where it was intimate and didn't require, you know, the long waiting game of having to make a movie.

• 9:35Speaker 04

  And I remember my other cousin, Robert's brother, Matt Shire, told me that his wife is also a big lover of Las Vegas, and that she in fact wrote a play about this time when she was sort of observing the final years of the Las Vegas Showgirls. And when I read it, I mean, I liked the idea of a play, I liked that it was gonna be contained, not a lot of locations, not a lot of cast, so then that in my mind was like, okay, we can do this fast. But I was really struck with the characters, it really felt authentic to real people,

• 10:18Speaker 04

  and it was a mother-daughter story, and I was raised by a single mom, so I always wanted to tell a mother-daughter story. And then...

• 10:28Speaker 04

  I became a mother myself, so then I was able to understand the story from a different perspective, which was even more moving to me to kind of know the challenges of being a creative, working mother and how, you know, there's so many things up against you in trying to do that. And I related to the family you create in the workforce. So there was just so many layers to it that were really appealing to me.

• 10:58Josh Horowitz?

  Then, of course, you need to cast it. You need to find your Shelley. What was that process and how did we get to Pamela Anderson here?

• 11:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I, this movie is interesting in that I, like, there weren't other movies that inspired me, that I was drawing from. It was always photography, or literature, or journalism. And so, similar with the Shelley character, I couldn't visualize a present-day actress in that role. I would think of Marilyn Monroe would be interesting. And then I came across Pamela's documentary and I was just really struck with, yes, there's a lot of parallels, but also I could see this woman that was so extremely intelligent and kind of the modern-day Marilyn, you know, someone known for her beauty but has so much

• 11:50Speaker 04

  depth and soul to her and just eager to express herself dramatically, that I was just knew that she was my Shelley and no one else could play that role.

• 12:03Josh Horowitz?

  So, from the outside looking at, yes. I mean, evidence on the screen. So, you know, I alluded to this time period. So you have the documentary, you have Chicago, you have your memoir. It seems like you were at a crossroads. You were at kind of like a point where you were ready to try something new if the industry would allow you the opportunity, which you need, right? You can't always make your own opportunities. Like, where was your headspace at before this came around of what you were looking for, what you wanted to do with your life and career?

• 12:36Speaker 04

  I didn't know. I was just, I went back home, I went back to the place I grew up, and I got into my garden, peeled it all back. I was just trying to remember who I was. I want to be defined by what I do and not what has been done to me. So I needed to...

• 12:53Speaker 01

  Remember who I was and as soon as I did that, things just started percolating. You know, Barry Weisler called me and that show, I don't know, Pam and Tommy, I've never seen it and I never had anything to do with it, came out and he called me and said, you know, I know you're capable, I don't want people to think of you that way, I want you to come do Roxy in Chicago and we'd met a long time ago through Rob Marshall and they wanted me to do it, but my kids were still in school and I just basically was too scared. So, I said, well, when? And he goes, now. I was like, no, not like in a year, maybe? In a year? And he goes, no, now, tomorrow, I want you on a plane. And I went to LA for one month and then I went to two weeks in New York and then I did Broadway for eight weeks and I didn't know if I could sing or dance or act on stage, but I could do all

• 13:38Speaker 01

  of it at the same time.

• 13:39Speaker 05

  It was amazing.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  Aw, thank you.

• 13:44Josh Horowitz?

  So, was there a sense of like, what do I have to lose? Like, I mean, this is an amazing opportunity.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  My whole life has been like that. What do I have to lose? You know, I'm pretty fearless with that and, but I always felt like I just, I knew I was capable of more and I kind of was beating myself up when I went home, like, you know, I really screwed up or I didn't work hard enough or, you know, just events that had happened in my life and I thought, you know, I'm not like a woe is me person, but I was just like, fuck, you know? Sorry. I was like, so I kind of was like, you know, I don't know. And then to be able to put my heart and soul into Roxy and then, and make her a vulnerable character too, which was a different choice. And then when this came along, I thought, this is what that feeling is when you, an actor or artist sees a project that they have to do, it's life or death. It was so important. And I remember calling Gia and we were on

• 14:35Speaker 01

  this Zoom and I was telling myself to her, she's like, no, I want you to do it, you know, that's why I sent you the script. I'm like, no, but I can do this, you know, I can do it. And she goes, no, I know you can do it, relax.

• 14:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I mean, it is a major switch in the brain to, because for decades, you've been kind of boxed into these, you know, acting wise, you have not been given these opportunities.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, like I said, being a part of pop culture is a blessing and it's a little bit of a curse if you want to convince people that you can do other things. And I think I just started really walking my talk. I, you know, I didn't want to be that cartoon character I'd been walking around like and I thought, how do people look at me any differently? I mean, this is what I'm presenting to the world. So, it took, it was, it was years of...

• 15:17Speaker 01

  You know, figuring that out, I guess, you know, and then having somebody see me on the documentary, and my son Brandon also produced that documentary. And, you know, you don't know why you're doing things sometimes, and then it just kind of, it just, it just happened. But I said, when I read the script, I thought, okay, you know, put your head down, you're gonna work really hard. This is gonna be, this might be the only movie you're ever gonna do. And do you wanna be remembered? How do you want your legacy to be? And I said, so I have to experiment. And, you know, I wanted to work on my voice. I wanted to work on everything. So I just did the best I could. And I'm glad it's been well received. But we worked really hard on it.

• 16:01Josh Horowitz?

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• 16:45Josh Horowitz?

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• 17:29Josh Horowitz?

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• 18:14Josh Horowitz?

  So let's make it easy for anybody who wants help to get help. That's where Rula comes in. Here's the thing a lot of online therapy platforms don't actually talk about. Most don't take insurance. That means you're either paying out of pocket or signing up for some very expensive monthly subscription. Rula does it all differently. They work with over 120 insurance plans. So the average copay, I can't get over this. It's just 15 bucks a session. So basically, two of your lattes, okay? A pretty good deal, if you ask me. That means you can get real therapy from a licensed professional without breaking the bank. And Rula doesn't just set you up and leave you alone. They give you that therapist and then they're along the way, the whole journey with you to make sure your care is working for you and you're actually making progress, hitting your goals.

• 18:58Josh Horowitz?

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• 19:28Josh Horowitz?

  So what did you connect with about Shelley? You read the script. What excited you about the life that she'd lived? The regrets she had? The place that she was in? What excited you about her?

• 19:41Speaker 01

  So many things. I mean, there are some parallels in her life about the love of nostalgia or beauty and, you know, performance and almost that, you know, distance that you have from people on a stage and being beautiful. You know, that's, I think, was part of her protection. But also, I imagine that she had a similar life to me, maybe. And... Having, you know, the mother-daughter story, having a child in this industry is, I would say you're going to have to beg for forgiveness to your adult children, you know, because I've been there. And you're just doing the best you can. So there's so much to her. I always say there's, every woman is a movie. You know, I feel like there's what's holding up those rhinestones.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  You know, she still needs to know what is she gonna make for dinner? What is she, what's happening in her family and her relationships? And she's on stage and, I don't know, I just, I thought it was such an interesting, well-written script and characters that it just felt like it was, that I could do it and it was meant to be.

• 20:44Josh Horowitz?

  You both must have, I would imagine, everybody in this audience after seeing the movie has such empathy for this character, for Shelley, and the choices she made, um, which, you know, on the outside looking in, without any context, you might judge someone a certain way, but, you know, to walk in their shoes at that particular point in her life, yeah, talk to me a little bit about her choices she made as a young mother and how you feel, how you empathize with the choices that she made.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Well, there's no perfect way to be a parent. And, and women in the workforce, this is something I did differently. I took the time for my kids. I didn't have a nanny. Where was my boys? I dragged them everywhere. Poor kids. And, um, but I can believe that she did the best. She didn't abandon her child. She did what was best for her child and she felt. And that, that scene with Billy was really wonderful because she brought a lot to it too with her experience with her grandmother Debbie Reynolds and her mother Carrie Fisher. And, um, so there was just a, the whole script and everybody in it, the actors were just fully loaded and fully, full of this life experience, bringing these characters to life.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  It was really wonderful to work with Jamie Lee Curtis, who scared me to death when I first met her. And she grabbed me by the shoulders and she's like, "I did this for you."

• 22:05Speaker 01

  I was like, "No, oh God." It was wonderful, but frightening.

• 22:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Okay, so let's, let's talk about the production. Eighteen days. You shot this in eighteen days. Let that sink in for a second, everybody.

• 22:24Josh Horowitz?

  Did you, I mean, every filmmaker wants more time, more of everything. Was that the bare minimum of like, yeah, I can squeeze this out in that amount of time, or?

• 22:33Speaker 04

  I mean, I think that was the maximum I was gonna be given. I mean, we had 19 days and then we cut it down to 18 so that I could have a little more for post. I mean, making a movie in a small way just allowed for me to have my creative autonomy, which was what was really important to me. I had a, I was allowed to do things like not have a video village and only have one clamshell monitor, and that was mine, and get to be close to the actors, so no one could else like get in my head. I was so grateful that all the team was, you know, either a really close friend or

• 23:18Speaker 04

  a family member. And so I felt really trusted, and that I felt really trusted by the actors, so I could trust myself and to really make the movie that I wanted to make.

• 23:30Josh Horowitz?

  Did you, correct me if I'm wrong, you shot this on film as well?

• 23:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, we shot it on film, 16mm.

• 23:35Josh Horowitz?

  Again. I mean, not making it easy on yourself, but, I mean, there's a method to the madness always. I mean, Pamela, for you being on this set, did this feel like apples and oranges compared to any other set you'd been on, given the kind of environment that Gia created?

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Well, I feel like this is the first time, you know, I've ever really done anything at this level or commitment and focus for myself. So, yes, this was a whole new world, new chapter, but coming from the Broadway stage and going right into this film was really exciting, so I felt like I already had my feet wet. I wasn't coming from Baywatch, you know, doing this. I kinda had a little bit of...

• 24:18Speaker 01

  I don't know, but you know, like I said, take it with you. I talked to, I just did a film with Kareem Anouz in Barcelona. And I said, I just wish I could get rid of my past. I just want to not think about it anymore. I don't want anyone bringing it up. I don't want it. And he goes, no, take it with you, baby. And I was like, that's so much better. Thank God. Yeah, I'm taking it with me, baby. So, I mean, I took it with me. But it's, it's, it is a different time for me.

• 24:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I mean, I guess the question is, because obviously you've, you've acted a bunch over the years, but like, are the lessons, do you, do you, well, I mean, are, do you have to unlearn kind of like the technique or whatever you had to do for those kinds of jobs, given this is such a different methodology?

• 24:59Speaker 01

  I just, you know, my first plane ride was coming to Los Angeles. I wasn't planning on being an actress. And then someone wanted to pay me be on the beach all day. I was going to be there anyway. You know, I was like, okay, can I bring my dog? You know, like, I was like, great, this is so cool. But then I was like, oh, you know, this is kind of interesting, this acting thing. And I remember meeting with an acting teacher, Ivana Chubak, and I thought, I just want to learn more about what this is. And I was in Samuel French, sitting on the floor, you know, reading Tennessee Williams and Eugene O'Neill plays, Sam Shepard. And I was just fascinated with Elizabeth Taylor and suddenly like, you know, and Catherine Hepburn. And I just was really starting to get into that. And then I got married. So that kind of sidetracked me. And I, you know, then I called her again when I did Broadway, and we worked really hard on that.

• 25:43Speaker 01

  And I worked really hard on, with her on this film too. And it's just the focus and the work. You have to do the work. If it's a comedy or if it's a drama, you have to do the work. And so I'm learning every day. I'm still learning and growing. And this has been a real process of self-discovery as well.

• 26:00Josh Horowitz?

  Were there any changes made between signing on and, and shooting in terms of respect to your character that you, you wanted during discussions? Or was basically Kate's script locked in and you shot the script?

• 26:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, there's, there were moments when, um...

• 26:20Speaker 04

  The space wasn't, you know, fitting to the script. There was a lot of lines and talking in hallways and so us as a all of a collaborative kind of effort had to be like, okay, what's the root of the scene? What are the lines that are kind of fostering this idea? And then kind of work together to figure that out. And it was, there was a really funny moment where we were kind of figuring out in time as we were shooting it with all the feathers, everyone bumping around, but that's the fun part.

• 26:52Josh Horowitz?

  By the way, these costumes, these are authentic costumes. These are like museum pieces.

• 26:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:58Josh Horowitz?

  Bob Mackie, Icon.

• 26:59Speaker 04

  They are from the Jubilee show. They have not left the building in 30 years. They are actual like museum pieces.

• 27:06Josh Horowitz?

  Are these probably not conducive though to like, it's not an easy costume to be in for 12 hours a day, I would imagine.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  You don't want to wear these every day.

• 27:14Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  But I mean, you do want to wear them. It was so exciting, but they were what 50, 60, 70 pounds. And there's a choreography to putting them, taking them on and off. So we had dressers from the Jubilee teach us how to do the choreography of taking the, you know, the headdress off and that all the different, you know, armbands and gloves and then the quick changes. And that, so that had a lot of choreography as well as doing the lines and being in small spaces and carrying these and also wearing the headpieces that you, normally the women would only have them on for a couple of minutes, you know, and we had them on all day. So we're kind of leaning against the wall. Everyone got a good massage.

• 27:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  You know, the next day.

• 27:54Josh Horowitz?

  Chiropractor bills are off the chart, yeah.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  So there was magic in the costumes. There was even name tags still in some of them. So it was really special.

• 28:04Josh Horowitz?

  So we referenced some of the cast I want to talk about because it's, it is, it's a small cast. It is like a small, amazing company you have there and you have to establish this kind of found family in, in the film. There's a history to these interpersonal relationships. And again, it's a short shoot, so I'm curious like how you accomplished that with Karen Shipka and Brenda Song. Like did that, was there rehearsal time or was that again, just sort of like you were all on the same page right from the start?

• 28:29Speaker 04

  For me, I don't want to hear the actors saying the lines over and over again. I want to have the bonding experience and do things like cook together and let that sort of sensual activity be some like sense memory thing of like, oh, that's what you do with your family. And so we would do things like go to Pamela's house and she would teach us how to make vegetable soup. And that was how we got our vegetables anyways. And we were all kind of living together in the, or we weren't, but most of the cast and crew were living in the Rio. And I've always craved that to have, to be on location and have that kind of family bonding. But this movie was so much about family bonding, so that

• 29:13Speaker 04

  really had to kind of transcend.

• 29:15Josh Horowitz?

  So you referenced Billy Lord, who I'm always such a fan of. And the scenes between you two are really emotional and really heartbreaking. And again, like you mentioned, like she, she brought her own history. She referenced, for those that don't know, Carrie Fisher, of course, her mom, Debbie Reynolds, her grandmother. Is that discussed literally in the moment? Like, is that something that she talked to you before signing on, or something she talked about when you were rehearsing, or not rehearsing?

• 29:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, I had sent Billy the script because I'm a fan of her work. And I kind of just was sort of openly like, which character appeals to you? And I was really surprised when she said Hannah. And she opened up about, and I wasn't even thinking about this at the time, but like her grandma being, having a one woman show in Las Vegas and really living a lot of what Shelley kind of had lived. And her relationship with her mom and, and telling me more about her mom's relationship with her mom. And, and she saw

• 30:17Speaker 04

  so much of those scenes, like she was playing Carrie and that Pamela was Debbie. So I think it was, it meant so much to me to bring this sort of cathartic experience to her and it made it more interesting to me and not just sort of the angsty daughter.

• 30:35Josh Horowitz?

  What do you recall about being in the moment in those scenes? Because those are, those are powerful moments between you two.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  Well, again, just having young boys, you know, and you do when you're in this world and, you know, whatever I've done in my career, you don't realize in the moment how much that affects your child and you're trying to protect them from it and then they grow up and they have a lot of questions and then they grow up even further to be adults and they confront you. So it was, we were both kind of bringing our experience to those scenes, our personal experience.

• 31:05Josh Horowitz?

  I know from the documentary, you're a journal keeper. What does your journal look like during the 18 days? What were the entries like? What were you writing about? What were you feeling?

• 31:16Speaker 01

  Interesting. I write every morning. I get up at four, five in the morning and I write for an hour just to kind of start the day. So, I mean, it could have been anything. I mean, I was writing a lot of emotional diaries, actually, for this piece and working really hard on those kind of things. So, like I said, I just write, like, very intuitively and extreme consciousness, poetry, and, yeah.

• 31:41Josh Horowitz?

  Any entries about Jamie Lee Curtis's spray tan? Is there an entry on that?

• 31:46Speaker 01

  No, but the funny story is, the first time I met Jamie, we did a table read and she had just gotten a spray tan and she was getting darker and oranger before my eyes. It was just getting more and more intense and her, you know, frosty lipstick and they were just doing the tests with everything, so it was really wonderful. But she was, yeah, she just goes full force. She's amazing. She's, like, so fun to work with and to actually work with her and to watch her, the way she works was such an honor and will change my life forever.

• 32:19Josh Horowitz?

  So, and the dance that she does in the film, I mean, again, this insanely short schedule, yet that's not in the script. That's something you guys, just, let's try it. Let's see what happens.

• 32:28Speaker 04

  I mean, Jamie's such a force, like, to be in the vicinity of that level of talent, I feel like I learned so much. But she's also so warm and inviting and doesn't, you know, I was really intimidated to work with her, too, and she doesn't make it feel that way. She comes to set early, she stays on set, she helps move gear, she does whatever you has to do to get the film done and she's a big supporter of independent cinema. But with that scene...

• 33:07Speaker 04

  I mean, we have kind of two different stories, but my version of it is we were kind of coming to set in the morning and it's such an interesting environment to work out of the casino at 6:00 a.m. You go to set and you see the characters that are still there from the night before and she was doing her research and talking to some of the waitresses about their job just to kind of, for her character, but she learned, I guess it's a union thing, that the casinos can avoid the union, I guess, by making them bevertainers. And so these waiters who are really either dancers or singers have a moment where they

• 33:52Speaker 04

  take a break from serving and they can show off their talent and dance or sing and she was watching one of the bevertainers do her dance and she was just in awe of how amazing it was and I had asked her, "Well, why don't you do that?" And she was like, "You're really gonna make me get on stage and dance?" And I was, "Sure, yeah, will you? I don't know." And she's, and there's music all the time in the casinos and I guess "Total Eclipse of the Heart" played and she was, "Well, this is a net song." And I was like, "Great." And then, yeah, she did it. We just threw, I threw her on there and it was one take and I didn't know how I was gonna use it or if I was gonna even be able to get that song, but I had to figure out a way.

• 34:36Josh Horowitz?

  Say, you have to clear these, that's a pretty big song.

• 34:39Speaker 04

  I wrote a letter.

• 34:40Josh Horowitz?

  Let me fire off this email really quick.

• 34:44Speaker 04

  That was all my posts, you know.

• 34:48Josh Horowitz?

  One other cast member I want to mention, I was gushing to you backstage about Dave Bautista, who, I mean, this guy, what he's doing in his career, I'm so impressed. And there, again, there's this lived in history between your characters that you have to establish very quickly. Did you connect with him? Because I see some similarities in like two performers that have probably been very underestimated, boxed in throughout their careers. Did you connect on that level? Do you connect with Dave on any?

• 35:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, I didn't know much about Dave Bautista before this film and I really only knew him in the wig. So afterwards, when I saw him without hair, I was like, "Wait a second. I mean, that's my, where's my guy?"

• 35:28Speaker 01

  But he was wonderful and so sweet and such like a gentle giant. You know, he's such a sweetheart, so soft and like sweet and we just, I think that we did those scenes. The first scene we'd get together was the table scene, right? The table inside the interior, so we had a scene together. Oh, yeah. But our scene in the restaurant was really fun. I loved that scene.

• 35:53Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, I say like that you both, I heard something, you say something interesting about, you know, I feel like both you and Dave were underestimated for portions of your career. But sort of the more insidious thing is when you underestimate yourself. And you've said you've done that to yourself. Are you past that now? Do you feel like you've kind of like, something has clicked in your brain where you're able to kind of?

• 36:13Speaker 01

  Back the code.

• 36:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  No, I think you have to believe in yourself before others do. You have to respect yourself so others can. And I've learned that, but I, I don't know, I think I kind of just went through a weird time. But like I said, I look at all my life experience now and everything that's happened. And to be able to do something like this and be able to use that, all that life experience, then I'm like, okay, that was worth it. It was worth it.

• 36:36Josh Horowitz?

  The audition scene that kind of opens it, but you return to later on in the film is pretty powerful too. You cast the nicest man on the planet, your cousin, Jason Schwartzman.

• 36:50Josh Horowitz?

  Well, in real life, I'm saying.

• 36:53Josh Horowitz?

  Does that, I mean, you've been through auditions in your career. Did any of that, did that resonate on any level in your own life, what she had to go through?

• 37:03Speaker 01

  I mean, that audition scene was, for me, the pivotal point, kind of the point where she fights back. I mean, she wears her heart in her sleeve. This movie's about, I think, second chances and just trying to get, do the best you can with the tools that you have. And I felt like that was a moment for me too, in the film, that I was really excited about, but also really fearful of for some reason. So I think that's why it resonates a lot, because it was a difficult decision to just turn around and say, wait a second, you didn't like it? You know, it was, so I think, I can't really draw anything from any life experience like that. But I feel like it just, I just, I mean, it just felt that was.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  I don't know. I mean, I do feel maybe like a little bit in my life, but you have reinvention is is something really important. Like, you know, I think like, like, people ask me, what do you think Shelley did after this? I think all her life is always going to be beautiful in her life. She's going to reinvent herself and there's going to be more beauty ahead and art. And she lives her life as an artist. And and I think it's very hopeful.

• 38:11Josh Horowitz?

  Do you share that kind of hopeful?

• 38:14Speaker 04

  I like to envision Shelley and Annette robbing a casino. That's my.

• 38:20Josh Horowitz?

  Going more genre in the sequel. You're going a little more more Hollywood.

• 38:35Speaker 06

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• 39:04Speaker 07

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• 39:48Speaker 07

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• 40:06Josh Horowitz?

  It's also like, there's a melancholy to the film for a time gone by, for an art form that is no longer celebrated. You talked about showgirls, you know, contributing, the costumes being actual museum pieces. Have you, have folks that kind of participated in these kind of shows seen the film? Has that been important to get their take on it?

• 40:28Speaker 04

  It was very important to get their take on it. They haven't seen the film yet, but they were very involved. We had some of the showgirls from the actual Jubilee show come to Pamela's house and talk to us about their journeys and their stories and show us the walk and what it means to them. And then Dita Von Teese was doing a show, still is doing a show, where she does sort of an homage to the Jubilee mixed with burlesque, which is her specialty. I don't know how you phrase that. And all those dancers from her show were in the background of our movie and they were so supportive and always teaching

• 41:13Speaker 04

  us how to put the clothes on and off. And so they haven't seen it yet. The Vegas community was really a big part of this and I can't wait to share it with them.

• 41:22Josh Horowitz?

  So what happened on day 19, the day after you shoot? You wrapped this amazing opportunity. Did you feel like you kind of left it all out on the field? Like, good or for bad, it's up to Gia now in the edit room. I think I did the best I could.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  Well, I think that the last scene we did was the last scene. So...

• 41:40Speaker 04

  Last shot.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  The last shot. And it was really emotional for everybody. Everybody was on the stage and, you know, there was the girls, but then there was the camera and the Gia and everybody and family, like her family and Monty and her little baby. Just very, it was very emotional because it felt... I don't know, I didn't know how it was gonna turn out or anything, but I felt really good about the work that everybody put into it. And it just was like that bittersweet moment, like it's over.

• 42:07Josh Horowitz?

  So were there moments or specific scenes you saw when you finally saw the film that, I mean, I don't know if you even know that Jamie Lee Curtis Dance was in the film. Like, I mean, it sounds like there are these unexpected moments that occur, so what surprised you in seeing the finished product?

• 42:20Speaker 01

  I think, I didn't have any days off in the eighteen days, so I kinda got to see everything. But she did such a great job with even organizing the cast. The first four days were with Jamie, the next part were with Dave, the next part were with the girls, and then with all the dancers. So it was kinda like these, the way you organized it with the actual shooting schedule was...

• 42:38Speaker 04

  I didn't have a choice, it just was the way I had to go.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  But that's hard to do, you know, that's how, you know, doing it all in different orders and, you know, and just really concentrating on those relationships in chunks. So it wasn't, you know, diluted at all. We really got to get to do the scenes together, you know, in chunks like that. So I was just really happy. I was really happy when I said I saw myself for the first time, because when I got ready for the film, I wouldn't look in the mirror. I didn't want to look in the mirror and get ready. I looked away from the mirror, and I did most of the film without makeup and then some with the showgirl, but I didn't want to get distracted about the way that I looked.

• 43:14Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  You know, and I, so when I saw the character, I was like, "Yeah, yeah, that's crazy. I'm crazy." But it was like, "Yes," you know, because it felt, it looked like it was a transformation, even in the character. So I was really excited to see that. And I've never liked to see myself in anything, but, and I was really scared to even see the film, so it was a nice surprise.

• 43:35Josh Horowitz?

  You mentioned the, the choice of makeup or no makeup. This has become like the phenomenon of phenomenons. Pamela Anderson, a couple of years ago, deciding, "No makeup for me, I'm good." And women around the world have like, just gone over the moon about this. I mean, has this surprised you about how this is connected on a profound level? Across the globe?

• 43:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I was at Paris Fashion Week and I just didn't want to sit in a makeup chair for three hours and I thought, there's only like this much of me sticking out of these incredible outfits, you know, Vivienne Westwood and everything. I said, no one's even gonna notice, so I'm gonna go to the Louvre, I'm gonna go for a walk. I just don't want to, who am I competing with? What am I trying to do? I'm not even in the show, I'm just sitting at the fashion show. And then I started, I was saying, this is really great, like this, I have so much freedom. And then it just kind of, people would start coming up to me, thank you so much for doing this, and look, I'm not wearing makeup either, with the glasses, or, you know, it's like, great, yay, I don't know what else to say. But I mean, I'm so happy because you just have to know, I feel like we put on these

• 44:38Speaker 01

  masks, and I know I did, and it's so nice to just, and I think with social media and all this kind of stuff, I mean, I think a lot of young girls think, I don't look like my Instagram pictures, I'm having a bad day, and it's really, you know, you just don't look like your Instagram pictures, you know, and you're okay just the way you are. And I found I had to do that just for myself, I wasn't doing it for any other reason, and then, so I think that it resonated because it was just, you know, and I still, you know, I just feel like, it has been such a freeing experience not to have to keep up with the Joneses.

• 45:12Josh Horowitz?

  Do you, you mentioned young people, and social media has changed the game, obviously, but do you connect, or when you see kind of like, young actresses that are going through it, and are being defined by their looks, and being judged, and all, and going through different variations on what you went through, do you see similarities, or does it feel like it's a totally different landscape for young performers nowadays?

• 45:39Speaker 01

  Well, even the girls, because Jay, you said to them, okay, we're not gonna wear makeup, and we're not doing this, and they're like, oh, like, no makeup? Like, what do you mean? Like, no contour? No, nothing? And there was, it was hard for them, and even Brenda says, like, in her whole career, from a child actor on, she's never been in front of the camera without makeup. And, so, I don't know, it's just, it sounds maybe a little superficial, but it's, you know, we're just, I don't want to, I'm a little rebellious, so I kind of, I felt, I don't know, it just, it just, like, I did it for me, and I feel like I do see, I have, you know, nieces, and I have, you know, my sons have girlfriends, and I think, I hope that they...

• 46:18Speaker 01

  They're okay with themselves. And then all the rest of it's fun. I mean, I love makeup too and glamour and everything. It's not, I'm not against it. I just wanted to, we gotta check in with ourselves. You know, have some makeup-free dinner parties sometimes. I don't know.

• 46:30Josh Horowitz?

  So, Gia, what's it been like? I mean, we talked about kind of the satisfaction of this, of how it's being received, this film. But, you know, earmuffs Pamela for a second. This performance is being celebrated and this career has changed forever. That must be at a remarkable, I don't know, that must warm your heart to see how she's being perceived through this film you've created.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's really the biggest reward. It just, it's been long deserved.

• 47:04Josh Horowitz?

  So what, going forward, what are you looking for? Like, acting-wise? Like, does this change the aspirations in terms of what you're looking for and what your hopes are?

• 47:13Speaker 01

  I finally got an agent. And I, I just finished Naked Gun with Liam Neeson. We did the reboot of that, so.

• 47:21Josh Horowitz?

  I'm there.

• 47:22Speaker 01

  And then I.

• 47:22Josh Horowitz?

  I'm very excited.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  It's funny, he's hysterical and such a sweetheart. And handsome and all that good stuff. And, no, then I did a movie with Kareem Anouz, a fantastic director in Barcelona, where I play the mother of this really dysfunctional family. I know, it's an ensemble too. But the people are, and I've got some other things in the works, but yeah, no, I'm working, so it's exciting. I just wanna, you know, I'm excited about doing it.

• 47:52Josh Horowitz?

  And also, I don't know if this like becomes like passe for you, being like part of the zeitgeist for many years, but like when Beyonce suddenly pops up in a video donning three of your iconic guises, did she give you the heads up? Did that just come out of nowhere?

• 48:07Speaker 01

  I had no idea. I had a friend call me, a friend send me. This picture of the fuzzy pink hat and everything, and I thought, "Oh, okay, another Halloween costume." And then Noe said, "Oh, it's a video." And I saw it and I was like, "Wow." I mean, that was in the boat thing, so I thought that was cool. That's why I thought that was really fun. But it's funny, and I feel like far removed from it, so I don't, you know, I don't, I never take offense to it. It's always a compliment. But, um, funny, back in the day, those weren't celebrated outfits, you know? I was crazy.

• 48:40Josh Horowitz?

  Can we, can I show the three photos of Beyonce, just to see if it jogs anything?

• 48:43Speaker 01

  You have it?

• 48:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, with the first one, let's go to the first one, please.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  My mom thought it was me.

• 48:47Josh Horowitz?

  I think this is, I think this is the Baywatch look. If we can go to the Baywatch, yeah, there's the side by side.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  I know, it's so, I mean, you can't dream this stuff up. I mean, it's crazy.

• 48:59Josh Horowitz?

  You never could have imagined that, I suppose.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  I haven't even met Beyonce.

• 49:01Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, let's go to the next one, please, if we have it.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 49:05Josh Horowitz?

  I think we have another one.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  This is your life.

• 49:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yes, this is, this is your life, Pamela Anderson. It's coming, it's coming, it's coming. We're in the black void. Here, we're gonna go to the next one, please. It's coming, it's coming.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  You know, it's funny, back in the day, people used to always say, I mean, just recently, actually, someone asked me, barbed wire. First of all, I just had that in my suitcase, you know, and I, and I had these, like, you know, leggings, yoga pants, and these, these boots from a Playboy shoot, and I put it together. I just kind of showed up in can and costume, but no one planned that. And it's, it's like, it's funny, anyway. But, um, people always ask me, "Did you have a stylist?" You'd think a stylist would have let me out of the house with half those looks. No, I didn't have a stylist. I remember Jacques Moose was like, "That makes me cry."

• 49:48Josh Horowitz?

  One more, I think. One more, uh, this is from MTV, I think Video Music Awards is coming up in a second. Give us a second, drum roll. It's coming. What happened to the barbed wire costume? Do you still have it?

• 50:01Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 50:02Josh Horowitz?

  Not on the Smithsonian? No?

• 50:03Speaker 01

  No, that wasn't the barbed wire costume, that was just from my...

• 50:06Josh Horowitz?

  That was the promo.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  That was, yeah.

• 50:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, okay, it's coming, here we go, last one.

• 50:13Josh Horowitz?

  There it is.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Uh, Tommy did my makeup.

• 50:20Josh Horowitz?

  Alright, we can take that down.

• 50:24Josh Horowitz?

  So, anyway, speaking of music, you got Miley Cyrus for this. How did that happen? How does that... Every film would die to have Miley Cyrus on the soundtrack.

• 50:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I... Andrew, our composer, Andrew Wyatt, he did all the music in our movie, but he's also works closely with Miley on some of her stuff. And I really wanted an original song for the end.

• 50:54Speaker 04

  You know, I wanted something to sort of be that juxtaposition of so much of what the movie kind of deals with, of this analog versus the digital and having that kind of... Something that I could kind of create that had that old-timey sound, but also dealt with some... something modern. And I'm just a huge fan of her. She wears a lot of Bob Mackie and she has such a wonderful voice that that kind of feels like it has been through so many years and kind of... She's able to have that vocal range that kind of feels theatrical. So, uh, I... It really wasn't going anywhere, but I think...

• 51:40Speaker 04

  And then I finally got a text with her vocals on the song and I really think it was Jamie who kind of took the ball to the finish line where she... They saw each other at some Disney

• 51:55Speaker 04

  promo thing and she helped kind of... She's such a like PR, like again, champion of...

• 52:01Josh Horowitz?

  Give that woman a raise, Jamie Lee Curtis.

• 52:06Speaker 04

  That's how it works.

• 52:07Josh Horowitz?

  Have you connected with Miley yet? Have you met?

• 52:09Speaker 01

  Well, you know, it's funny because, you know, I've known Miley since she was younger, but just kind of in passing and it... One of the... She's always been a supporter of mine, her and her mom. And when I remember playing Roxy in Chicago, one of my first audiences, I look out and there's Miley Cyrus with her mom at the show. So, it's nice. When I heard her voice on the lyrics too, I felt really good about that because I'm a... I root for her. I've always been rooting for her.

• 52:33Josh Horowitz?

  All right, we're almost out of time, but we're gonna end with the happy second fuse profoundly random questions for both of you guys. Are you dogs or cat people? Cat.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  Dogs. I'm allergic to cats, but I still love them and rescue them.

• 52:47Josh Horowitz?

  How many, how many dogs at home?

• 52:49Speaker 01

  I have three dogs.

• 52:50Josh Horowitz?

  Love it, okay. What do you collect, if anything, either of you?

• 52:59Josh Horowitz?

  No one?

• 53:01Speaker 04

  I'm not really collecting.

• 53:02Speaker 01

  I collect things, you know, family photos, I don't know, my boys' shrine to my kids.

• 53:07Josh Horowitz?

  There you go. What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 53:12Speaker 01

  My dogs.

• 53:13Speaker 04

  My son.

• 53:14Josh Horowitz?

  There you go. All three dogs, you don't love one more than the other?

• 53:17Speaker 01

  Two on one and then one on the other screen, there's two screens.

• 53:19Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, just checking, just checking. Have you ever been mistaken for another actor in your career? There's only one Pamela Anderson, but does it ever, has it ever happened?

• 53:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, no. This, um, one time, I was on a flight, and this guy came up to me and said, "Do you know what this country's done for you?" And I was like, "Oh my god, what have I done?" And he goes, and he kept on, and I, and I was like, "Oh god." And then I would look back, you know, at him, and he'd be like, "Arrgh!" And I was like, "Oh my god." And then this, you know, stewardess had to like handcuff him to the chair because he was trying to attack me, yeah. And, um, it ended up, he thought I was a Dixie chick.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  Remember that whole Dixie chick thing?

• 53:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I do.

• 53:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I almost got killed on a plane.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  But I was like, when you look back and he's like, "Arrgh."

• 54:06Josh Horowitz?

  That's like, that's only like the 400th most weird thing that's happened in your life, to be fair.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's minor.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  Scared to fly after that a little bit, but, you know.

• 54:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I get it. Um, what's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Pretend it's real. "Action!" It was Baywatch. "More seagulls. Where's the cracker whacker?" They just threw crackers in the air to get the seagulls to come down. But the pendant's real, "Action!" And we'd be like, "Whoa."

• 54:40Speaker 01

  Anyway, and then there's Gia, the best actress-director in the world. Yeah, so you know, you have to go to boot camp, you know? It's like a learning experience. So it's been, you learn good and bad, from good and bad things. And so, that's why it was such a pleasure to work with really strong direction and professional people that are all really committed and hardworking on their craft. And, you know, it was really such a wonderful experience to know all ends of the spectrum.

• 55:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yes. To be grateful, yeah, where you're at now. In the spirit of Happy Sad Confused, who's an actor that always makes you happy? You see them on screen, you're in for a good time. This is, you're in good hands.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  Nicolas Cage?

• 55:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 55:23Josh Horowitz?

  This is a valid answer, it's good.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  Jenna Rollins.

• 55:26Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, good. Great. What's a movie that makes you sad?

• 55:34Speaker 01

  Off the top of my head, Splendor in the Grass.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  That makes me sad. I just had the Criterion Closet this morning, so I'm really inspired. I got to see a lot of things. I don't know, I love movies that make me sad, so I can't think of one off the top of my head, though. Why can't I?

• 55:52Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, is there a food that makes you confused? You don't get it? You see it on the menu, why do people even eat that? I don't understand.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  Meat?

• 56:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I know. There you go. There you go. We ended with a good PSA for the audience. The most important PSA, though, is to check out this movie. You guys have seen what a wonderful film The Last Showgirl is. It opens in some theaters December 13th, it goes wider in January. So, spread the good word. These small, wonderful movies need the word of mouth, so spread the good word of this fantastic performance in this wonderful direction by Gia. Give it up one more time, Kevell Anderson, Gia Tropo, everybody.

• 56:39Josh Horowitz?

  And so ends another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes.

• 56:46Speaker 07

  Or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 57:00Speaker 07

  The world of Sonic the Hedgehog has been thrust into a not-so-dark, not-so-stormy, hard-boiled detective story that probably nobody saw coming. Follow Sonic and the intrepid Chaotix detective agency as they take on their biggest case yet. This high-flying, action-packed adventure will take them across the world, fighting for every clue they can find. It's one heck of a tale, which is good, because this story might be the only thing that can save their lives. Well, if that's all, I can just dispose of you. Wait, what?

• 57:44Speaker 07

  All will be revealed in Sonic the Hedgehog Presents: The Chaotix Case Files. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.