Dating Expert: Why 90% Of Men Will NEVER Get A Girlfriend – Do THIS Instead!

Rocket Money: Try Rocket Money for free https://RocketMoney.com/iced CleanMyMac: Boost Speed, Cut Costs — Get Tidy Today! Try CleanMyMac free for 7 days and use our code COFFEE for 20% off https://clnmy.com/TheIcedCoffeeHour Range Rover Sport: Start designing your Range Rover Sport today at https://www.rangerover.com/us/sport Shopify: Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at https://shopify.com/ich MagicMind: Get 60% off the Magic Mind offer here: https://magicmind.com/ich Follow Blaine Anderson : On Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/datingbyblaine/ Website - https://datingblaine.com/ Tiktok - https://www.tiktok.com/@datingbyblaine On Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@UCdSCodrH7DSemQMY9yzne4Q Apply To The Index Mastermind: https://entertheindex.com Add us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jlsselby https://www.instagram.com/gpstephan Official Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeBQ24VfikOriqSdKtomh0w For sponsorships or business inquiries reach out to: [email protected] For Podcast Inquiries, please DM @icedcoffeehour on Instagram! Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:01:21 - Biggest dating mistakes 00:02:05 - Why great guys struggle at dating 00:03:24 - Problem with dating apps 00:06:56 - What makes you a dating expert? 00:09:03 - Client demographics 00:10:23 - Biggest success story 00:11:12 - How her advice differs from men’s 00:14:09 - Ideal dating ages 00:15:52 - Long-term vs. short-term dating 00:18:52 - Sponsor - Rocket Money 00:20:17 - Shark Tank experience 00:23:24 - Is dating harder now? 00:26:50 - Matches per day 00:30:59 - Funny dating app stories 00:33:23 - Eye-catching profile tips 00:34:21 - Profile mistakes men make 00:37:31 - Sponsor - CleanMyMac 00:38:33 - How to share yourself online 00:40:18 - Bad opening lines 00:41:32 - Bad flirting 00:43:16 - How much to compliment 00:45:38 - Men vs. women psychology 00:46:40 - "High-value men" 00:48:06 - Improving your score with women 00:49:09 - Dad bods 00:51:45 - Texting advice 00:53:32 - Attracting the wrong type of woman 00:54:22 - Do nice cars help in dating? 00:57:22 - Short vs. long-term approaches 00:58:30 - Chivalry vs. equality 01:00:22 - Spending on first dates 01:01:36 - Downsides to being attractive 01:03:09 - Best way to approach someone 01:07:22 - Not being creepy 01:10:00 - Sponsor - Range Rover 01:11:27 - Sponsor - Range Rover 01:12:31 - Icks 01:13:18 - Serious dealbreakers 01:14:10 - Game - Ick, dealbreaker, red flag 01:16:25 - Questions to spot green flags 01:19:58 - Is being too direct bad? 01:20:53 - Body count & history 01:21:40 - Personal goals & dating 01:23:12 - Ghosting 01:25:39 - Dating profile audit 01:26:21 - Getting over a breakup 01:28:52 - Why situationships are common 01:29:59 - From dating to relationship 01:30:39 - Communication in dating 01:32:11 - Intimacy ceiling while dating around 01:33:03 - Relationship & income 01:33:47 - Advice for married couples 01:34:26 - Game - This or that 01:45:09 - Final advice *Some of the links and other products that appear on this video are from companies which Graham Stephan will earn an affiliate commission or referral bonus. Graham Stephan is part of an affiliate network and receives compensation for sending traffic to partner sites. The content in this video is accurate as of the posting date. Some of the offers mentioned may no longer be available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  What I see a lot of is just so much reliance on online dating. And the reality is for 95% of guys, online and dating apps aren't going to be a fruitful place for them to meet women. My name is Blaine Anderson, and I am the founder and CEO of Dating by Blaine.

• 0:48Graham Stephan?

  What are the biggest mistakes the guys under 35 are making?

• 0:52Speaker 01

  They aren't meeting women out in real life. They aren't approaching the women that they see that they're attracted to. Online dating is really superficial. 5% of men get 95% of the matches. But that doesn't mean there isn't another way.

• 1:06Speaker 00

  I'll do it at 10.

• 1:07Speaker 01

  You'll do it for 10?

• 1:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09Speaker 01

  Defining what makes somebody good at dating has changed so rapidly. And what you need to be good at does not come naturally to most people.

• 1:17Graham Stephan?

  What are the things that they could start doing immediately?

• 1:20Speaker 01

  My biggest piece of advice for a guy who's looking to improve his score with women is to...

• 1:32Jack Selby?

  Blaine Anderson, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

• 1:36Jack Selby?

  So you're a dating coach with over 6,000 clients. You actually made a pitch on Shark Tank and made a deal with Mark Cuban because you're making millions of dollars a year helping people find the right match.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  I did. I was on Shark Tank.

• 1:50Jack Selby?

  So what would you say are the top screaming biggest mistakes people are currently making in dating?

• 1:56Speaker 01

  Uh, okay. So there's a lot. How much time do we have here?

• 1:59Jack Selby?

  Let's just, let's just break it down like top like three things.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  Top three mistakes, especially men, I work exclusively with men, is not sticking their neck out enough. So not taking risks when it comes to meeting women, like by approaching, for example. Putting too much emphasis on online dating, kind of a subcategory of that, but I think it's worth naming on its own because it's definitely a problem. And waiting to start living their best life until they have a girlfriend. So an example of that might be, oh, I've always really wanted to go to Italy, but I'd rather wait and do it when I have a girlfriend to share it with. That's a mistake.

• 2:34Jack Selby?

  Why would you say so many great guys suck at dating?

• 2:38Speaker 01

  They don't teach it in school. So much of what makes somebody good at dating is different than now than it was 50 years ago. It's changed so rapidly and what you need to be good at does not come naturally to most people. Communicating in 150 characters via text message or a dating app profile. Understanding how to navigate thousands of options. Our brains weren't wired to have 10,000 options, or at least perceived options, online. Our brains were wired to maybe have a couple of options at the watering hole that we walked up to, and that's just not the case anymore. So people are very confused about how to handle it.

• 3:17Jack Selby?

  So what are the biggest mistakes the guys under 35 are making right now when it comes to dating?

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, those same ones. So what I see a lot of, especially in the under 35, is just so much reliance on online dating. Like, that's really, like, they aren't meeting women out in real life. They aren't approaching the women that they see that they're attracted to. They go, and then they go home and swipe on the apps and end up frustrated that they aren't getting matches, or they feel rejected when their matches don't turn into dates. And the reality is, for 95% of guys, Online and dating apps aren't going to be a fruitful place for them to meet women.

• 3:53Graham Stephan?

  Well, why is that? Is it because their profile's not good? Or they're just not like interesting enough? They're not standing out?

• 3:59Speaker 01

  It's a little bit of all of those things. For some guys, it is as simple as their profile sucks. I have looked at thousands of dating app profiles and never once has a guy sent me a profile. And I'm like, you know what? It looks great. Keep it exactly like you have it. Never. There's always things that they can do to improve it. But there's also a lot of men who are relying on dating apps, who are never going to get the matches that they desire, either because they are short, or because they are bald, or because they're an ethnicity that, you know, people aren't choosing to engage with on dating apps. And that's just the reality of it. Online dating is really superficial. So there are certain characteristics that you just aren't going to be able to overcome. But women in person aren't going to care.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  If you're short, like you're shorter than a woman, maybe a couple inches shorter, you walk up to her in real life at a bar and you're confident. You carry yourself well. You're engaging. You're funny. You know what to say. She's not going to care that you're shorter than her. But on a dating app, she may not even see your profile if she has a height filter set that she doesn't want to look at anyone under 5'10", which is the reality for a lot of people.

• 5:06Jack Selby?

  So maybe dating apps work really well for those who have like desirable physical characteristics.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, like 5% of men.

• 5:13Jack Selby?

  And then for 95% of men, it's a struggle.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's pretty well established. Like 5% of men get 95% of the matches when it comes to online dating. And the rest are left feeling frustrated. But the problem is dating apps will give them a little bit of a taste. So they're showing them these really beautiful women. So they feel just within reach. And maybe if I just keep swiping a little bit more. You know, people have spent millions of dollars making dating apps addictive. It's like social media. You're getting this dopamine hit if someone engages with you. You're seeing this attractive profile. So it feels really possible and really close, when the reality is it's oftentimes not.

• 5:50Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, it's crazy how many matches women get on dating apps. This happened about 10 years ago. But a buddy was on Tinder. It's not getting any matches. And for fun, we made a fake profile of just an average looking girl.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:04Graham Stephan?

  Just average, like nothing special.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:06Graham Stephan?

  And we started the swiping on every guy.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:08Graham Stephan?

  And- It became like after an hour, like everyone was a match. It was like match, match, match, match.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 6:15Graham Stephan?

  And his phone started getting so many notifications of matches and messages that his phone started overheating and then wouldn't turn on. He kept trying to open Tinder and it just, it would glitch.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:28Graham Stephan?

  Because it just got too many matches. Like his phone couldn't handle the amount of matches.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:32Graham Stephan?

  It probably got up to a point of like eight or 900 matches before the profile was shut down.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  Wow, and that's an average looking woman.

• 6:38Graham Stephan?

  And she's average.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  So imagine like an attractive looking woman.

• 6:41Graham Stephan?

  You know what's funny? I also heard that most women are only on Tinder for like a day or two because they get overwhelmed.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:47Graham Stephan?

  Or it's just like too many matches or too many just like, hey, what's up? And they're just like, I'm tired of it.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Men and women face very different challenges dating, but especially online. The challenge men have is how do I stand out? And the problem women have is how do I tell the good from the bad? Or who might actually be a good partner? So neither one has it easier. But this is why I tell my clients when they're feeling frustrated or getting their feelings because a woman doesn't match with them or a woman ghosts them before they've ever met, like you are nobody to her. She hasn't even, you're not even a blip on her radar yet. So don't take it personally when you don't hear back from her. That's just the reality of online dating.

• 7:26Graham Stephan?

  So what makes you a dating expert? How do you get that title?

• 7:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, I get guys' results that they're looking for. So I didn't study dating or psychology in school, but I am self-trained from my own dating experiences and then just working with thousands of clients and helping them get the results that they want over many years.

• 7:45Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, but how do you start doing that? Were you just like the girl the guys would go to is like, hey, I'm not getting matches? Or like, what do I say on this date and you'd help them?

• 7:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it started organically in college. I was just helping my guy friends, especially if they'd have questions about a sorority sister of mine. Like, oh, how should I approach this situation? Or how could I, you know, get in with her, like put in a good word? And I always just really liked talking about dating and relationships. I never thought of it as a career possibility. And then I moved to New York City. This was, you know, 15 years ago, 10 years ago. So online dating was just becoming popular where it wasn't weird to meet somebody from the internet. Where previous to that, it kind of was. And I would talk to my guy friends who I knew were awesome guys, who would make really good boyfriends. And I would look at their dating app profile and be like,

• 8:39Speaker 01

  No wonder you're not getting matches. This is not communicating well about you. You don't look good here. So I would just help them either take pictures or spruce up their prompts and they would get better matches. And then they'd say, oh, you should help my other friends. So it just sort of happened organically. Then in 2020, I was working in the travel industry and the pandemic hit and my business went to zero overnight. So I was like, oh, you know, I've always really enjoyed talking about dating and helping people get better results dating. I wonder if I could turn this into, at the time, I wasn't thinking a career. But I was like, oh, I could just, you know, package what I talk about into a course. And then I could offer it to more men at a lower price point.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  So I made my first course and it turned out there was a lot of demand, especially at that time. People were wondering, how the heck do I date with the world shut down? And it took off from there.

• 9:33Graham Stephan?

  What are the typical demos of your clients?

• 9:36Speaker 01

  So a lot of people assume, oh, you must work with some really weird guys. And that's not true at all. The majority of the guys I work with are awesome. They have a lot going for them in their professional and personal lives. And they just want their dating life to catch up. They realize that that aspect of their life has fallen behind. So most of my clients fall into one of two categories. The first is who I call the engineer. He may or may not actually be an engineer, but usually works in a technical field, spends a lot of time behind a computer, oftentimes with other males he works with, engages with, doesn't have a lot of experience with women. And then the second is the divorcee. So has come out of a long-term relationship, was maybe married, maybe has kids,

• 10:19Speaker 01

  didn't expect to find himself single again. And a lot has changed since the last time he was on the market. And he wants to know, okay, what do I do now?

• 10:28Graham Stephan?

  Is anyone ever undateable? Like you just see him and it's instant like, okay, there's no, I can't help you.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  Not typically men who come to me, because if you are looking to make change and you're open to feedback and open to self-growth, then change is possible and you are dateable. The type of person who I might say like, yeah, sorry, is someone who's unwilling to change, unwilling to look at themselves in the mirror and be honest with themselves.

• 10:54Graham Stephan?

  What would you say is your biggest success story?

• 10:56Speaker 01

  Uh, definitely, I love getting the marriage announcements. I've had a few baby announcements, which is really exciting. Like, hey, like, you know, I took your course, I got married, and now I have a baby. I'm like, you named them after me, right? Haven't had that happen yet. Um, but just hearing that guys are confident, you know? I don't just count marriage or starting a family as success. Because that's not what everybody wants. And sometimes that takes a lot longer to get to that point. So I really consider it successful if a guy just says, you know, I wasn't sure how to put my best foot forward before. I wasn't feeling like my authentic self on dates, or I couldn't market myself well. And now I'm doing those things, and I'm meeting women I'm excited about.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  That's my ultimate goal and what I love to hear.

• 11:42Graham Stephan?

  So how does your advice differ from a guy? Like, if I'm asking a guy for dating advice versus you?

• 11:47Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. I'm sure there are men who give similar dating advice to me. I'm definitely not, I don't say, oh, my dating advice is better just because I'm a female. But the major difference between me and some, like, the pickup artist content out there that you might be familiar with, which is some guy dating coaches, is that content tends to be more focused around how to get results at any cost, whether that's manipulation, or what you need to say to make her feel a certain way. Where I try and focus my advice on being your best, most authentic self that is going to attract women that you are going to be compatible with.

• 12:25Graham Stephan?

  But what if your authentic self just isn't attractive?

• 12:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:28Graham Stephan?

  At all?

• 12:28Speaker 01

  That can be possible. That's a product problem, and it requires you to do some upgrading, to build the life that a woman is going to be excited about joining or contributing to.

• 12:40Graham Stephan?

  Here's the counter to that. You have a lot of people saying, well, there's a lover and a provider. And what you're aiming for is more of the provider. Whereas if you're just engaging, exciting, live a fun life, or carefree, you would have just as good, if not better, results than the person who has like their career together and is ambitious.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it's a sliding scale. Some women are going to care more about one than the other, and that also can be affected by age. I often have clients ask, well, how does your advice differ if I'm in my twenties versus my thirties by what you're saying women want? Like, well, a woman in her twenties is probably going to put a heavier emphasis on, are you fun to be around? Are you exciting? What are you offering me in those categories? Whereas a woman who's more ready to settle down is considering children is going to put more emphasis on your trajectory. What, where you're going? Like, are you going to be able to step up and provide? So both are important and different women are going to put a stronger emphasis on one versus the other.

• 13:43Jack Selby?

  We had Greg Doucette, who's a fitness influencer on the podcast. He also loves talking about dating. He said, every inch in height is like making an extra $30,000 per year. And I think he was referencing a study. So it wasn't like he was just pulling that out of nowhere. Have you noticed this to be somewhat true? Like, or are those numbers completely off? And is this even an important thing to consider?

• 14:05Speaker 01

  I don't think those numbers are completely off. It doesn't sound crazy to me. Unfortunately, a lot, especially when you're looking online and it's, you're taking in superficial things into account more, height is important.

• 14:20Jack Selby?

  When does it start to taper off for height?

• 14:23Speaker 01

  I would say, once you're over six feet.

• 14:25Graham Stephan?

  So like, six foot two is worse than six foot one?

• 14:29Speaker 01

  No, like, so six foot two is-

• 14:31Jack Selby?

  The returns start diminishing?

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Exactly. So if you're six foot or six two, a woman's not like, that much more excited, you know? It's just like, okay, he's over six feet.

• 14:40Graham Stephan?

  Got it. And what about the ideal age for men to date and for women to date?

• 14:46Speaker 01

  I am a firm believer that age truly is just a number. But you are going to have more in common with people within a few years of your age. So you're just going to have more to talk about. You're going to be more in the same places in life. That being said, men tend to, I have seen, have better luck dating women who are a little bit younger. And women tend to gravitate towards men who are a little bit older, often because they do have the ability to provide more. They've demonstrated more of those qualities that can make a good long-term partner. But I know plenty of women who date younger guys as well and-

• 15:23Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 15:53Speaker 01

  It works out.

• 15:54Jack Selby?

  And we read the comments. We see all of the podcasts and one of the common threads is you never ask a fisherman or you never ask a fish how to fish, but an experienced fisherman. What do you, what do you say to that?

• 16:07Speaker 01

  So I like, I obviously hear this as well from in my comments even, but I would take that back to what's the premise of how are you thinking about dating if you're comparing it to fishing? Cause when you're fishing, you're essentially tricking that fish into biting the hook. You use your bait and then you wheel them in and that's not what dating should be about. You're not trying to trick a woman into biting and to being interested in you. Instead, you're trying, in my opinion, if you're, especially if you're looking for a long-term partner, you're looking for somebody who you are mutually compatible with, who you can grow with, who you are excited to be around and they're excited to be around you, which is very different than thinking like, oh, I'm going to trick this woman into

• 16:51Speaker 01

  coming with me or going out with me.

• 16:53Graham Stephan?

  Is there a difference in dating if you're, if you're looking to just not have a long-term partner, but have fun versus finding someone who's like a long-term match? Like, how do you approach that situation differently?

• 17:03Speaker 01

  It doesn't have to be different. The, what I teach in my methodology around approaching women and getting to know women is going to work whether you are looking for something shorter term or longer term. But a lot of the advice maybe you hear from pickup artists, which a lot of it has some truth to it, is going to be more focused on the short term and won't work long-term because back to the fishing, you're essentially tricking this woman into giving you her number or going on the date with you. And that isn't going to be sustainable long-term. Whereas if you're looking for something long term, you want, you should also like as the man, be mutually interested in understanding if this woman is going to be a good fit for

• 17:47Speaker 01

  you. And that's something I see a lot of guys get wrong when they see an attractive woman, whether it's online or in person, they immediately go into, okay, how can I get her phone number? How can I get her on a date? How can I escalate things depending on where they are in the relationship? When the reality is, they should be thinking, hmm, is she a good fit for me? Does she deserve my attention and time and resources? I should be assessing for that just as much as I am trying to put my best foot forward for her to make a connection. So she likes me.

• 18:20Jack Selby?

  So you're saying start from the approach of disqualifying them rather than qualifying them?

• 18:25Speaker 01

  A little of both. Your approach shouldn't be about just making them like you. It should be understanding if you are still excited about them. So take approaching a woman that you don't know, for example. If you go into it just thinking, oh, I want to get this woman's phone number, that's probably going to show through in your words and your actions and it could come off as needy, or she's just like, okay, why is this guy, he doesn't even know me and now he's like clearly angling for my phone number. Where if you approach with the mindset of, I want to get to know her as a human, see if we have a good conversation, see if we have anything in common. Do I think she's intelligent and could be interesting to spend time with? You're going to give off a very different vibe. And I'm not saying

• 19:09Speaker 01

  you want to be, you know, interviewing her to see if she's worthy, but you want to strike the balance of creating a fun conversation for her and determining if you want to ask for her phone number. And then if you don't want to ask for her phone number, if through talking to her, you know, she's boring or. We have different views on this, so it'll never work out. Don't ask for her phone number. You avoid the unnecessary rejection, which tends to kill guys' confidence. And you look like a much more aware, human and upstanding man by being like, you know, it was great to meet you, lovely chatting to you, and moving on. You don't always have to ask for the phone number. And so going in with the mindset of knowing that, I think, is really helpful.

• 19:53Graham Stephan?

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• 20:11Jack Selby?

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• 20:27Graham Stephan?

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• 20:53Jack Selby?

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• 21:03Graham Stephan?

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• 21:10Jack Selby?

  That's rocketmoney.com/iced. Once again, rocketmoney.com/iced. Thank you so much to Rocket Money for sponsoring this episode. So on Shark Tank, you made a deal with Mark Cuban.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:22Jack Selby?

  What ended up happening there? You went in asking for $100,000 for 2% state, right?

• 21:27Graham Stephan?

  How did you come up with that number? That seems high.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  Well, based on what my profits are, it was, in my opinion, a very fair evaluation. But what ended up happening was, I took the deal, had every intention of closing it with Mark. I think he's incredible. I went in only wanting to take a deal with him. I think he exudes a lot of the qualities the men I work with want to achieve. He's successful, he has a family, he's... Perceived, you know, as a genuinely good guy who helps other people. Ultimately, after the show, we didn't end up closing the deal for a variety of reasons, but nothing but amazing things to say.

• 22:07Graham Stephan?

  Okay, what happened?

• 22:07Speaker 01

  About Mark. There's really nothing, except like I panicked and decided I didn't want an investor.

• 22:13Jack Selby?

  Were you talking with Mark?

• 22:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:16Jack Selby?

  So like, did you get his phone number?

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have his number.

• 22:19Jack Selby?

  So you were just like texting him back and forth like?

• 22:20Speaker 01

  He is so responsive. He, I would say, never, if I text him, I got a reply in 10 minutes. I was communicating a lot with his team. We went through a lot of the back and forth. You know, they, of course, what you see on the show is really a lot of, it's cut down to 10 minutes based on 40 minutes of you talking, probably up there, but that's all they know about you. So of course, they have to do their due diligence. They want to see all the finances. They want to get to know you more. So we went through all of that and then ultimately, and I, I wanted to close it, but then at the end of the day, I don't need the financial capital for my business. And I just didn't want someone else sharing my business.

• 23:00Graham Stephan?

  But I don't think it was financial capital he was really bringing to the table. It's his name.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  Yes, true.

• 23:04Graham Stephan?

  So do you think that you would have done better with his name behind you? Or you already got it, kind of by like the Shark Tank deal? Just him showing interest is kind of like the value?

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, um, what I came to realize through talking to him and like after really thinking about it was, yeah, he would bring a lot to the table, but it would really, a picture of him and I on my homepage, you know, I'm not sure how much lift that would ultimately give my credibility and my business. So I just didn't feel like it made sense for selling 10% of the company. That was just, that was too much ultimately, once I started to really think about it.

• 23:40Graham Stephan?

  Is there anything that happened on the show that wasn't shown on TV?

• 23:43Speaker 01

  I felt like, uh, Mr. Wonderful was very scary on the show, um, or like from behind the scenes. But no, they, I thought did a very fair job portraying what went down.

• 23:55Jack Selby?

  It's so funny because Kevin O'Leary says that he's like the friendliest guy ever, but obviously no one perceives him as that.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  No.

• 24:02Jack Selby?

  Because of his online persona. However, in person, he genuinely is.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:06Jack Selby?

  Like, he's actually-

• 24:07Graham Stephan?

  Oh, he just loves to hang out.

• 24:09Jack Selby?

  He loves to hang out.

• 24:10Graham Stephan?

  He's a great conversationalist. He's generous with his time and he's just like a normal guy. He's so friendly.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  No, it's, you know, it's a bit for the show. And what makes the TV entertaining is people having big personalities.

• 24:21Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  But everyone was very nice, especially behind the scenes.

• 24:25Graham Stephan?

  So is dating harder now than it was 10 years ago?

• 24:28Speaker 01

  Yes, I think so.

• 24:29Graham Stephan?

  Why?

• 24:31Speaker 01

  We rely too much on technology and convenience. Convenience has killed dating. So it being harder, I believe is somewhat self inflicted. It was already getting harder and then we had the pandemic and that just spiked things even more. You don't have to leave your house to live your life anymore. Your groceries delivered to your door, food delivered to your doorstep. You can watch anything you want at any time. You don't have to leave your house and that has made people lazy. It's made them socially awkward and it has made, and it makes them think that they should be able to lay on their couch in supine position, swiping and end up with a hot girlfriend. And that's crazy. That's not how mating is, has evolved overall.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  It is where you've ended up, but it's not how it's meant to be.

• 25:19Graham Stephan?

  So what are some of the core principles of then a good dating profile?

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:23Graham Stephan?

  Like what's going to get the most matches?

• 25:25Speaker 01

  The most important thing is just having quality photos. So photos that show what you look like, that are clear, that ideally showcase some of the ways you spend your time. If you don't have good photos, especially the first couple, even if the rest of your profile is A plus, you're dead in the water. There is nothing, a woman isn't even going to see it. Cause your first profile picture comes up. If it's not good, then it's an automatic no. She's not even going to swipe down. So if your first picture is good, okay, she's going to look a little further. She's going to read your prompts. Are you giving her information about you? Are you living a life that she would like to join or participate in? If yes, then she might say yes.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  But even then, you're still one of many in her queue. So how are you going to stand out next? Your messaging. Can you send a message that is going to be different than what else, everything else she's seeing? Hey, how was your weekend? I think you're beautiful are not messages that are going to stand out because she has literally dozens of guys saying those same things. So you need to look for something unique, creative, fun. You don't have to reinvent the wheel every time. I tell guys, look for themes that you see in profiles often. Pizza, dogs, travel, and come up with a few versions of messages off of those that you can send. And even then, you send a message, maybe you get a response.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  You are still one of many, and so it's important to keep expectations low and not get too invested. That's a common thing I see.

• 27:01Graham Stephan?

  What do you write in the bio, the about me?

• 27:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, so you want to give just enough information for her to want to know more. Something I see guys getting wrong is they treat it like a resume. They're trying to communicate all of their accomplishments and all of these exciting things that they have done. And this is not the place for it. You just want to give her little bits and pieces. You want to keep it lightweight. You're not being so serious. Or as a help wanted ad, I see often, oh, I'm looking for a woman who is kind and generous and with a good sense of humor. It's like, you're not speaking to anybody because you're speaking to everybody when you say something so vague like that. Your profile shouldn't be about who you're looking for. It should be about who you are, and she can decide if you're going to be a good fit.

• 27:45Graham Stephan?

  And how can you tell if your pictures are good?

• 27:48Speaker 01

  Are you getting matches?

• 27:51Graham Stephan?

  How many matches should you be getting a day for it to be good? Like, how do you test these photos?

• 27:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I would actually take it a step back. And before you even put your photos on your dating app, you can post them on your social media. Like, do they get likes? Are people like, damn, Jack, you look great in that photo. Probably a good one for you to use online. There's also a website called PhotoFeeler that you can upload photos of yourself and people rate them across multiple dimensions. I think it's like attractiveness, trustworthiness, something else, successful, like how you're perceived in that photo, which can be directionally helpful. I sometimes will have clients who are like, well, I put it on PhotoFeeler and this photo got the best results. And I'm like, well, I'm telling you that's not the best photo and to use that one instead. So you have to take that a little bit with a grain of salt, but it can be somewhat helpful.

• 28:41Graham Stephan?

  That's so interesting, but this is a massive tangent, but this, that...

• 28:45Jack Selby?

  Reminded me of a business idea that I wanted to start before I started working with you, which was split testing everything. And so you could create an account on this website. And then maybe you get 10 cents for every response that you place. But it could be a response about which title is more clickable for a YouTube video. Which thumbnail is better? Which picture of me is better? What should I name my child? You know, how should I ask out this girl? What's the next message I should send in this chat log? And then you could pay, allocate a $10 budget and get 100 responses. And you could, as a person that, you know, puts your responses, you could be paid 10 cents for just answering simple questions. And then you have split testing, universalized. Thank you, guys. I'm taking investments. But yeah, that's interesting. So photo feeler?

• 29:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. But ultimately, you're gonna get your best answer. Aside from are you getting results online? Because there could be other things wrong with your profile that are tanking your results that you're not aware of. But is, ask women. If you have women in your life, friends, like, hey, which photo was better?

• 29:45Graham Stephan?

  They're not honest. Like, every single time, sometimes where you go and you ask a woman, like, what do you think of these photos? It's just, it's going at it from the wrong perspective. Because if you, if you ask them, they've already friendzoned you. You're not asking someone who you're interested in dating, or they're like into you.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  I mean, like, ask your sister.

• 30:04Graham Stephan?

  That puts them in a different category of just like, oh, yeah, this is a great photo of you. Oh, I love that. But it doesn't get any magic.

• 30:10Jack Selby?

  Don't ask your mom.

• 30:11Graham Stephan?

  Meanwhile, yeah.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  No, don't ask your mom. But if you have a sister, or you have friends who are girls, like, I would like to, like, be brutally honest with me.

• 30:18Graham Stephan?

  They're not gonna be brutally honest.

• 30:20Jack Selby?

  Or your friends have sisters? I feel like they would.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  I think.

• 30:23Jack Selby?

  If you said, hey, look, like, be completely honest. I have no egoic attachment to whatever you say.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  Is this a good picture?

• 30:29Jack Selby?

  Yeah, like, what is most effective?

• 30:30Speaker 01

  You're not asking, like, am I good looking? It's like, is this photo bad?

• 30:33Jack Selby?

  It depends on how you frame it. Yeah.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  Or come to me and I'll tell you because I'll give you the brutal truth on if your photos are good or not.

• 30:40Graham Stephan?

  The first photo has to be just a nice, clean picture of you.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:43Graham Stephan?

  The second photo should be you doing something you enjoy.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 30:46Graham Stephan?

  Preferably like a physical activity.

• 30:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:49Graham Stephan?

  Third photo has to be a group photo with no more than like three to four people where you're in it. And then another photo of just you, clean. And then the fifth photo could be maybe you and an animal.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Have you taken my course?

• 31:00Graham Stephan?

  No. See, but I used to get so into, like, this was a long time ago, obviously, but like dating profiles and Tinder. And I would optimize every little thing, like, like, I'm just as analytical about like title thumbnails. I used to get about everything, whether I was posting ads for real estate.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:17Graham Stephan?

  Or on a dating profile. And I would A B test different pictures, see how many matches I would get overall optimized for that, help friends.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:25Graham Stephan?

  Do the exact same thing.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:26Graham Stephan?

  And we all together, there was like five or six of us, we'd all like exchange like, oh, this photo worked well for me. And I'm trying this photo, like, we would get so into it just from an analytics standpoint.

• 31:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And that's honestly what it takes when I'm talking to clients, I'm telling them, okay, we have to A B test this. And we're gonna need to see what works and then adjust accordingly. A lot of people, I mean, with anything in life, want to just throw it up and have it work and be done with it. And think they should get results when, as you know, with anything, whether it's a title or a thumbnail or an online dating profile, it usually takes iteration.

• 32:00Jack Selby?

  What would you say is the most ridiculous dating app story you've heard from a client?

• 32:03Speaker 01

  I mean, this, this didn't happen on the apps, but I had a client early on. And so this was when I was also, now I've heard, I've heard so much, like, you really can't take me by surprise, like, with a crazy dating story or like with just thinking something odd that I'm like, what? Where'd you get that idea? But I had a client who came to me and he had moved to the US. Uh, he'd been here for a few years from China and he was online dating. He was meeting women and he came to me and he was very frustrated. That he wasn't getting results. And I was like, well, what do you mean? You've been going on these first dates? And he said, well, my friends say that they get pho- on the first date. And I never get pho- on the first date. And I was like, what?

• 32:48Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, stop calling it.

• 32:51Graham Stephan?

  Is that, that's the word?

• 32:52Speaker 01

  He was using.

• 32:53Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  That he was using. And I was like, huh? Okay, like, and he's, and then he had, went on to tell me this story that this woman, who he met online, she told him that she wasn't very comfortable with physical touch early on. She'd had some trauma around it. But someone had told him that in order to come off as an alpha male, you had to insert yourself physically. You had to make physical contact. And I was like, oh, no. So like, she told you she didn't want it, but you had this advice. So what did you do? He's like, well, I put my arm around her. I'm like, no, like, what do you mean? This is the same client. So that's, I feel like, one that I'm just like, you are being told exactly what to do. This woman is telling you what she's comfortable with, and you're ignoring it because of bad advice you heard on the internet.

• 33:36Graham Stephan?

  I got a good story for you. I got one success story for dating profiles. A buddy of mine, who we would be testing with, wasn't getting any matches whatsoever. I did all of his profile pictures, all of them. And the first one, I thought I would Photoshop. And I Photoshopped, I'm sure I have the picture somewhere. We could hopefully put them up on the screen. I Photoshopped him on a unicorn. And his hands are out like this, and he's creating a rainbow with his hands. And that was the first picture. And it was so ridiculous that I thought, everyone's gonna at least stop at this photo.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:11Graham Stephan?

  And read your profile.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:12Graham Stephan?

  Because of how ridiculous it is. Sure enough, he got a match. He's now married with kids, from that photo.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Wow. That is a good story. That's a good success story.

• 34:24Jack Selby?

  What do you think about eye catching things like that in your profile? I've seen it before.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:30Jack Selby?

  Like on Hinge, you can put videos. And the first video is a guy going, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, don't swipe left. Like, first of all, I have something to say to you. And then you can, you know, give them your spiel or something like that.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:40Jack Selby?

  What do you think about stuff like that? Just trying to be way outside of the norm?

• 34:45Speaker 01

  I, I, I think it's smart to try, especially because there's just so much noise on apps. And as I've been saying, for men, the problem is how do I stand out? So that helps you stand out, which it can, and gets women to at least pause and look at everything else. Then I say, go for it. Ultimately, like it's how it is with photos or trying something outlandish like that. You just have to see what works for you based on where you live, who you're trying to attract, what you look like. All of those things affect it. So what works for one guy might not work for another guy. So it really is about iterating.

• 35:22Jack Selby?

  What would you say are the biggest mistakes men make on their profiles that turn women off immediately? I have a few examples here. Blunt bios, fish photos, mirror selfies, only group photos, and lying about height.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  All of those. The fish photo I knew was going to come up. That's always a common one that guys are asking me about.

• 35:41Graham Stephan?

  Why? Why does everyone have a photo of them holding a fish?

• 35:43Speaker 01

  I think it's because it just happens to be when men take photos. Men aren't taking that many photos of themselves. So then if they're on a fishing trip with their buddies and they're like, I got this sick fish. Someone's like, I gotta take a photo of it. So it just happens to be the photo that they have, which is often how men are putting together their profiles anyway. It's just, can I cobble together six photos that of me? And that's not the right approach.

• 36:07Graham Stephan?

  You know what's so funny? I'm thinking of the female equivalent of that. And I remember it just being two things. Bikini photos and photos at Coachella with a big group of girls. And they're all wearing really revealing outfits. And that's like the female version of the dude, like taking a photo with a six pack.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. Although our Ben complaining of, well, woman has a bikini photo.

• 36:27Graham Stephan?

  I'm just trying to think of the commonality. It's like the thing you overwhelmingly see. And then I remember the other one in the bio that I would say maybe like 15, 20% of women had was if you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  There's so many.

• 36:41Graham Stephan?

  Was so common. Is that still a thing?

• 36:43Jack Selby?

  I don't see a whole lot of that, but that might be like well overdone now. But I see a lot of common threads. Like one is first round is on me if it's a prompt on hinge. And then it's like, it's with your card. Like you see that all of the time.

• 36:56Graham Stephan?

  Really?

• 36:56Jack Selby?

  Or it's, I would never say that. And like the amount that that exists is incredible. It's like these women are talking and all coming to the same conclusion that they need to use that as a response.

• 37:07Speaker 01

  Wow. Yeah, there's, and the other common ones like, I love to travel. So vague, so boring. You shouldn't like go out with me if your family runs 5Ks on Thanksgiving. That's like one that people think is like silly and I think is stupid. But that, but that's a thing women can have. Profiles as you discover.

• 37:28Graham Stephan?

  It just doesn't matter.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I had a client who, it's funny, guys often do what you describe where they make a profile of as a woman because they want to see what it's like. And a client who told me he used a photo of a tree as the first photo and still got like hundreds of matches, which is ridiculous.

• 37:44Graham Stephan?

  Well, I remember it being a thing where you would just swipe on every profile because it wasn't worth your time to go through and like analyze every single thing.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Not a good strategy if you're listening to this.

• 37:53Graham Stephan?

  It's what, to swipe on everybody?

• 37:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:56Graham Stephan?

  Why not?

• 37:56Speaker 01

  Because what, it's going to teach the algorithm something. So I'm not going to say I'm like the algorithm expert and like how to optimize it because you're better off like not trying to optimize the algorithm too far, just like make a great profile. But every person you're swiping on, you want to maximize the people who are saying yes to you also. So if you swipe on all these people and nobody says yes to you, that's telling the algorithm something. They are going to show your profile to then lower quality women, women who are also not getting more enough matches or not getting many matches in hopes of finding a pairing.

• 38:29Graham Stephan?

  So there is a hidden elo.

• 38:32Speaker 00

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• 39:01Jack Selby?

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• 39:17Graham Stephan?

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• 39:31Jack Selby?

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• 39:41Graham Stephan?

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• 39:55Jack Selby?

  There is a hidden elo on dating apps.

• 39:59Speaker 01

  I don't have insider information, but from what I have witnessed, yes.

• 40:03Jack Selby?

  You talk a lot about showcasing authenticity versus marketing. How can you effectively market yourself on a dating app and show that you're being authentic without oversharing or maybe just like, like saying too much?

• 40:19Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. So a dating app profile should be lightweight, fun, and flirty. It's like I said before, it's not your resume. You are just giving her enough information to say yes. And then you're going to get to know each other a little more via text. But then ultimately, you want to aim for getting to know each other in person. So how you are going to market yourself there is pick a couple of things that you are passionate about, that you are into, that resonate with you, that you think a woman might be able to connect to. So maybe you are into rock climbing or you love pickleball. Like, highlight one of those things in your profile so that a woman can see that and be like, I also like that thing. This could be someone who I have things in common with.

• 41:02Jack Selby?

  What about being too tryhardy on a profile? Like, do you see that a lot and how big of an issue is that?

• 41:07Speaker 01

  I don't, I wouldn't say I see it a lot, but it is an issue. That goes back to like the person who makes the video that's like, stop right here. Listen to me. Like, that can come off as too tryhard. If you've, you know, perfected every aspect of your profile very clearly and you have all these professional photos done, sometimes that looks a little like, okay, you have nothing else to do. Like, you clearly aren't get, like, women aren't. Swiping on you if you've gone to these lengths. So I will say, when I look at somebody's profile, I do try and strike a balance between, okay, effort has been put in here, but it's not so curated that all six photos are professional photos. It's okay to have a couple. In fact, I encourage clients to do a professional photo shoot so they can get a couple of good photos.

• 41:49Jack Selby?

  Let's say you get the match. You have an opener. Is there an opener that a lot of people use that they just need to stop using? Hey.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  Yes, definitely.

• 41:59Graham Stephan?

  Always your weekend. You're beautiful.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  All of those.

• 42:02Graham Stephan?

  Good morning.

• 42:03Jack Selby?

  Okay, so don't be too complimentary in the beginning, or just don't be too brief?

• 42:09Speaker 01

  I would say don't be too basic. Like, that encompasses all of those things. If you're saying something that everybody else is saying, then why is she going to choose to respond to you?

• 42:18Graham Stephan?

  Dude, this is unlocking so many memories for me. I remember our highest response rate was quoting rap or Drake lyrics, or any popular song at the time. And it was Drake rap lyrics that got the highest response rate.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  You know what I like about that is it's easy to respond to. You have, especially if you share part of the lyric and it's a song that's popular and she's definitely going to know. It's super easy for her and like almost tempting to just complete the sentence. First is even asking her like, what'd you do this weekend? Not only is it basic and boring and she's heard it 100 times already, but she just has now like, oh, I did this, this and this. It's not interesting and it requires actually more effort than completing the lyric. And you're really with that first message, just trying to get your foot in the door.

• 43:03Jack Selby?

  Yeah. And what do men typically do wrong when they're flirting? Like, how do you flirt incorrectly?

• 43:10Speaker 01

  What I actually see in terms of flirting is just not flirting. My clients are going on dates and they're oftentimes treating them like business meetings. They're being very nice and respectable and even having good conversations and they're creating intellectual connections, but they aren't flirting and creating emotional or sexual connections. And so a woman leaves the date and thinks, oh, nice guy. Don't see him as a romantic partner. So that's why these guys who... Are very nice, have a lot going for them, aren't actually getting the second date or getting the results with women.

• 43:45Jack Selby?

  So how do you effectively flirt?

• 43:47Speaker 01

  So it starts, there's a lot of techniques that can work here, but it starts with body language. You aren't going to be effective at flirting if you don't have the right body language. Wrong body language looks like closed off body posture, shoulders hunched in, not having good posture, not making eye contact. You have to, you can't be doing those things. Eye contact, super important for flirting. If you're, even if you're saying something silly or flirty, but you're not looking at her, you're looking down, you're mumbling, you're not going to come off as confident and it's not going to feel flirtatious. So the first thing you need to consider is how you're coming across. Shoulders back, looking at, right at her, pronunciating, enunciating, excuse me if I'm going to get

• 44:31Speaker 01

  that one right. Speaking loudly so she can hear you. That's, you know, baseline what needs to happen to even seem flirty. And it's honestly more, oftentimes more important than even the words that you're saying, is how you're saying them and how you're coming across.

• 44:48Jack Selby?

  And how often should you compliment them?

• 44:51Speaker 01

  On a date?

• 44:51Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  So I actually think a sweet spot for a first date is three compliments. But hear me out here, you're not-

• 44:59Jack Selby?

  And how long of a duration though is this first date?

• 45:02Speaker 01

  So an average first date should be an hour or two, in my opinion. You want to keep it relatively short. But these aren't, oh, you look really beautiful. They aren't necessarily all about her physical appearance and you're spacing them out. So right when she arrives, you might pay her a compliment, like, thank you so much for meeting, taking the time to meet. You look great. Or you look incredible in that dress. Giving her a light compliment that makes her feel good coming in.

• 45:25Jack Selby?

  What about backhanded compliments?

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Negging? Not, I'm not a fan.

• 45:29Jack Selby?

  You're a lot smarter than you look.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  I don't like those, you know, they can-

• 45:34Jack Selby?

  I like that dress. My mom has the same one.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  You can be playful and tease and I like that. But I don't like, so pick up artists will say that you should nag women. You want to make her feel bad about herself intentionally. And I don't like that. But what they're ultimately getting at is you want to make women feel things. You want to create, they call, I've heard it referred to as emotional spikes. And that feels a little manipulative to me, but it has some truth to it. You do want a woman to feel things when she's around you. I just don't think you want to make her feel things by making her feel bad and then good. You can just pay genuine compliments. So ideally one at the start of the date, maybe one-

• 46:18Jack Selby?

  When does that seem manipulative? That you're giving her compliments because you want a desired outcome?

• 46:23Speaker 01

  If the desired outcome is her to feel good about herself and the compliment is genuine, I don't count that as manipulative. If you are saying things that maybe you don't mean, or you're saying them just because you want something from her, like- manipulative might be too strong of a word for it, but it's-

• 46:42Jack Selby?

  Hidden motives, kind of, in a negative way.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, then, it's also not going to come off in a way that a lot of times women are gonna see through it. Let's just say that. I feel like women have a sixth sense for underlying intentions. So if your intention is just to sleep with her, or just to get her phone number when you've approached, like I mentioned before, that can be problematic. And it's, it might get you results sometimes, but it's not going to get you long-term results.

• 47:10Jack Selby?

  How are men and women psychologically different in terms of dating? And what should you know about the way, like, a woman's brain works? Or about the way a guy's brain works?

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Something that I see men getting wrong often is they overestimate how much a woman cares about their looks. Yes, your looks are a factor as a man, but men care way more about what a woman looks like than a woman cares about what a man looks like.

• 47:39Jack Selby?

  That's in person, though, probably.

• 47:42Graham Stephan?

  Overall.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  Overall, I would say, because that applies for online as well. Like, yeah, you do, your looks matter more online. But a guy can oftentimes look at a woman's profile and know whether or not he'd want to go out with her pretty instantly. And a woman does not look at a man's profile and know if she would want to go out with him. She might know if she wants to get to know him more or is curious to learn more about him. But it's not like, oh, I would take the date with him, just based on his looks. Where that is often true for a man.

• 48:12Graham Stephan?

  How important is it to be a high value man? That's the new term.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I think you have to really break down, what does that mean? You know? And it is important. I refer, I feel strongly that one of the things women look for in all men, and this is important for any guy who's like, hey, I want to attract high quality women, is you need to be high status, which is essentially what I think people are getting at when they say high value. But breaking down what that really means is important. To me, it means you showcase a trajectory that implies you are going places, that you are going to be able to be that provider, that you have things building in your life towards something. That doesn't have to be financial. It's not like, oh, you have to have a high paying career to attract women. It could just be that you're interested in things.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Like, I'm a cook and I want to eventually open my own food truck. That's showing her that you have goals and aspirations and that you think about the future. She also wants somebody who has interests, and I call them investment areas. If you're a guy, all you do is work and go to the gym, that's not very appealing. That's actually pretty boring. What are your interests outside of those things? Do you play sports? Are you, do you collect rocks? Are you really into your dog? It doesn't have to necessarily be things she's interested in, but she wants to see that you have things going on.

• 49:37Graham Stephan?

  And how many points can a guy raise himself on the one to 10 scale? Like, what are the things that they could start doing immediately?

• 49:44Speaker 01

  So my biggest piece of advice for a guy who's looking to improve his score with women is to build a life that he is genuinely proud of. So that can look like gaining some of those interests or investment areas if you don't have any today. Getting better at something, getting in shape, taking good care of yourself. How you look, you know, I did say women don't care as much about what a man looks like as a man cares about what a woman looks like. But it's still relevant, especially early on. First impressions matter. So if you look like a slob, even if you're successful and funny and bring a lot to the table, you're going to get overlooked often. So are you well groomed? Are you wearing clothes that look good on you?

• 50:28Speaker 01

  Are you in shape? You don't have to have six pack abs, but you should look like you care about taking care of your health. If you want to improve your results with women and you're looking to improve yourself on that scale.

• 50:41Jack Selby?

  Is it true that dad bods get more attention than the guy with like the six pack abs?

• 50:45Speaker 01

  I wouldn't say they get more attention, but I don't think the six pack abs are going to give you outsized results.

• 50:51Jack Selby?

  You know, it's interesting. That just made me think, and we're going a little off topic once again here. But in a lot of relationships, once you get into the point of like dating and boyfriend, girlfriend, a lot of the times as the guy gains some weight, the woman's like, oh yeah, I like that. Like, that's great. Keep gaining the weight. Now, a lot of men speculate that that's because the woman wants the guy to not be so competitive in the dating marketplace. And so they just want him all to themselves. Would you say this is accurate? Or is this like a way that maybe the girls can think, I can kind of not take so much care of myself? Do they actually enjoy that?

• 51:28Speaker 01

  I was going to suggest that as like the alternative option is like, oh, well, if he gains some weight, like I can like gain a little weight too and not have to like stay so tight. I mean, it makes some sense, you know? I can't say I have witnessed it or it's something like my girlfriends talk about. They're like, yeah, he's gaining weight again. Like, this is good.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  But I can see it being at least some accuracy to that.

• 51:51Graham Stephan?

  That has never made any sense to me. Like, if you have a partner, you would want to be attractive to your partner. Like, it just seems common sense to me. Like, I'm more motivated now to, like, stay in shape because now I have, like, someone to stay in shape for, in a sense.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Oh, wow, okay.

• 52:05Graham Stephan?

  Like, it just, it seems completely illogical to be like, all right, well, now I could just get fat.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I'm not, like, hoping my husband gets fat. I would love if he got a six-pack, that sounds cool.

• 52:14Graham Stephan?

  What did you think of the Magic Mine, by the way?

• 52:15Speaker 01

  Delicious.

• 52:16Graham Stephan?

  Isn't it good?

• 52:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I had, like, half and I feel hyped up, like, in a good way.

• 52:20Graham Stephan?

  It's really good. So funny enough, they reached out to us, they sent us probably like a month's worth of Magic Mine, just out of the blue. I started drinking these things pretty much every single day before almost every single podcast. Every time we're out of town, I put these in my backpack and I drink them before the podcast because it gives me a little bit of energy. And after that, I actually reached back out and I said, I really love the product. They decided to sponsor the podcast. So they make a lot of this possible. It's like a really cool energy focus shot. It's got a little caffeine in it, so it gives you, like, a little boost, but it's not so much that it gets you all hyped up and, like, jittery, so it's not as much as, like, a crazy big cup of coffee from Starbucks. So if you guys are interested in trying this out, a mental performance clarity shot,

• 53:02Graham Stephan?

  the link is down below in the description and we have a very exclusive coupon code to try this out. We absolutely love it, it's delicious, and, no joke, we do take this with us everywhere. I'm glad that you enjoy it.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  Minimal, clean ingredients, too. That's why I like it.

• 53:16Graham Stephan?

  Exactly, it's good.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:17Jack Selby?

  So how can you tell if you're texting a girl? If she's into you, if she's being slow to text back, or if she doesn't necessarily respond, like, is she just busy? How can you gauge that interest?

• 53:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, the ultimate test is ask her on a date, and if she says yes, she's interested in you, and if she says no or makes an excuse, she's not. Oftentimes, I see men trying to read between the lines and, she took this long to respond, but then she responded quicker and she asked me a question back, and it's like, just ask her out and we'll know very quickly whether or not you have a shot here.

• 53:49Graham Stephan?

  But what about for the nice guys out there?

• 53:51Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:51Graham Stephan?

  Who just feel like they're not getting any results, but they are just really kind?

• 53:56Speaker 01

  So I work with a lot of nice guys. And oftentimes, their problem is they aren't flirting. They aren't creating enough romantic chemistry. They're not making any tension. So they're showing up on these dates and they're being very nice, but they aren't making the woman feel anything. They aren't making her feel desired. We talked about how women want a guy who's high status. And we spoke a little bit about what that means. Another key thing a woman wants is to feel desired. If you aren't making her feel sexy and wanted, you could be high status, but she's not going to see you as a romantic partner. So being upfront about your feelings at appropriate times throughout the dating process or the relationship is key.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  You want to make it known that you like her. That also demonstrates confidence because you aren't scared of the outcome. You aren't afraid to say, hey, I had a really great time on this date and I would love to see you again. Or, I really want to kiss you right now. Or, I want this to happen next. If you can say that with confidence and not be worried about the results, that is going to be a turn-on to women.

• 55:04Graham Stephan?

  Now, what about the things that could maybe attract the wrong type of person? Maybe it's like leading with flashy things or making money or going out to clubs all the time.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. So yeah, what you put out there is what you're going to attract. And that's one of the reasons that oftentimes spending time in bars or clubs is not a good strategy if you are looking for a long-term partner. Guys oftentimes fall back on places like bars and clubs as where they think that's where you meet women. This is where I'm going to find somebody. And the reality is you're going to attract a certain type of woman there. Not to say quality women can't go to bars and clubs, but you aren't optimizing for shared values or shared interests. You're optimizing for a party lifestyle in a specific environment that is actually quite hard to stand out in.

• 55:54Graham Stephan?

  How much do nice cars help you in dating?

• 55:58Speaker 01

  That's kind of like height. I feel like, you know, as long as you have a decent car, it's like being six feet tall. As long as it gets the job done and you keep it clean and it's not super old, or if it's old, it's like cool old, you know?

• 56:10Graham Stephan?

  So like, what's the ideal car?

• 56:13Speaker 01

  Oh, what's the ideal? I think it's something... Something that's sort of masculine, reliable, though, shows that you have your shit together enough that you can afford it. It can be like, but there isn't a specific one car that like-

• 56:27Jack Selby?

  Okay, if you could give like-

• 56:28Speaker 01

  I don't hate a 4Runner.

• 56:30Jack Selby?

  I feel like a 4Runner shows that you're fun, you can go camping, you can take it out, it's a great reliable car.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:35Jack Selby?

  It's just a cool-

• 56:36Speaker 01

  Toyota's-

• 56:37Jack Selby?

  It's a big, safe car. Yeah, it's Toyota.

• 56:38Graham Stephan?

  I was thinking more like Mercedes, Aston Martin, like a good like-

• 56:42Speaker 01

  That's pretty flash, Aston Martin's no.

• 56:45Jack Selby?

  But they, they like-

• 56:46Graham Stephan?

  No, something like a Vanquish could be very like understated.

• 56:49Jack Selby?

  That just seems-

• 56:49Graham Stephan?

  It's not like over the, it's not over the top.

• 56:52Jack Selby?

  Ah.

• 56:52Graham Stephan?

  But it's, it's like in silver, like an Aston Martin in silver.

• 56:56Speaker 01

  The color is important here.

• 56:58Graham Stephan?

  It is.

• 56:58Speaker 01

  That's funny. I had a client who told me he had a Lamborghini and he's like, but it's dark green. And I was like, oh, okay. Well, in that case, yeah, pick her up in the Lambo, as long as it's not red.

• 57:09Graham Stephan?

  What about a Tesla?

• 57:10Speaker 01

  Fine.

• 57:10Graham Stephan?

  Totally fine?

• 57:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:12Graham Stephan?

  Does it matter if it's like a Model 3 or Model S?

• 57:14Speaker 01

  I mean, the S is gonna be better.

• 57:16Graham Stephan?

  What about the Cybertruck?

• 57:17Speaker 01

  That's gonna be a no for me.

• 57:19Graham Stephan?

  Really?

• 57:19Speaker 01

  Get a Cybertruck if you're into Cybertrucks, but just know it is going to be a smaller niche of women who are into a Cybertruck and think that is cool than if you just had a regular Tesla.

• 57:30Graham Stephan?

  Oh, this is-

• 57:30Speaker 01

  It's somewhat virtue signaling.

• 57:32Graham Stephan?

  Speaking of that, what about political affiliation? This has been a big topic. Jack actually just did a match and she, she unmatched you, right? After like a few of the guests that we've had on the podcast.

• 57:42Jack Selby?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. She saw me on like the dating app and she found my Instagram. And she saw that I, you know, I've had a conversation with Jordan Peterson. And so she probably immediately assumed like where I stand politically. And then she was like, I can't believe that you're like, and started like judging me and then unmatched me. I was like, wow, this is-

• 58:01Speaker 01

  Well, that's a, you dodged a bullet.

• 58:03Jack Selby?

  That's the way I see it too. Yeah. No room for nuance, you know?

• 58:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:06Jack Selby?

  She was immediately assuming something about me, so.

• 58:09Speaker 01

  I've had people who, yeah, I did um, an interview with Dan Bilzerian and people were like, oh, I can't believe, I was surprised the message, I can't believe you would talk to him. It's like, if you don't talk to people who have differing opinions than yourself, like you're not having any interesting conversations. That's crazy.

• 58:24Graham Stephan?

  How did your opinions differ with Dan Bilzerian?

• 58:26Speaker 01

  We, we actually overlapped on more things than I would have thought if you just like look at his social media or like how he portrays himself. I would say our biggest differences were he've, he definitely has more like games to play around, like you have to do this to attract women. Where I am more like be your authentic self and you're attract like the right woman for you, even if that means turning off a lot of women. That's not as much his methodology.

• 58:54Jack Selby?

  Is there a different way to approach relationships if you want the more Dan Bilzerian, you know, type of girl where it's kind of just like a hookup or a one night stand or like that sort of relationship versus like a long term, stable, healthy relationship? Like, would you approach those completely differently?

• 59:10Speaker 01

  Well, I think when you're, if you're looking for the shorter, sort of like flashier relationship, those like the women who are going to just, you're gonna fly them over and they have, I don't want to generalize here, but you know, they have like a huge Instagram following with like all their bikini photos and have a lot of guys going after them. You are going to need the flashier things to attract them. The fancy car, the expensive watch, the offering to fly them places. Because you're connecting on more superficial things like their appearance and what you bring to the table, in this case financially often. Whereas if you're looking for somebody longer term, people do connect over those things and sure, it can work out.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  But if you want to be able to have meaningful conversation and share values with your partner, you need to go much deeper than what you can tell in those surface level interactions.

• 1:00:02Jack Selby?

  One thing that I feel like confuses a lot of men these days, especially under 35, would be they don't know if women now still want chivalry or like a strong man, strong traditional, or if the women want a more egalitarian, equal, you know, like they have their own job and their own money and you do your own thing and they split the bill. And so a lot of guys, like they're kind of confused on how they should be approaching relationships. What have you found to be more prominent?

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  So first of all, that's understandable and that is confusing. There's so much mixed messaging in the media about toxic masculinity and how you should be or shouldn't be. And then you have the trad movement where people are looking for more traditional. Ultimately, it's going to differ among women. Some women are going to be looking for different things. My approach is skewed and how I approach it is, okay, what's going to get you the best results with the most amount of women is skewing somewhat more traditional, but then read the room. Offer to pay on the first date. As a man, you should pay on the first date. But if the woman's like, no, no, I insist on splitting it, then let her split it as well.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  And where you live can often be a big determinant of like where women expect you to fall on that scale. So for example, if you are dating someplace like Seattle, women are oftentimes okay with or even interested in men who have more of, less of the traditional masculine qualities. And they want to maybe, you know, I've had plenty of clients, I don't know, there's Pacific Northwest, like who want to, who end up splitting the bill. Where if you are in the South, you're going to be dating women who expect much more traditional male habits. So you a little bit need to keep in mind, like the atmosphere in which you're dating in.

• 1:01:54Jack Selby?

  How much should you spend on a first date? And what are like the most effective first dates you've seen?

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  I am a big fan of lightweight first dates, especially if this is someone you met online. This is a stranger. So you shouldn't want to invest your valuable time and money in, heavily into this person until you've assessed if there's some amount of connection. So I really like drinks. I get shit for this, but even coffee in a walk or juice in a walk. That was my first date with my husband. Some women say, I'm not a dog. I don't want to go on a walk, which to that I would say, why do you want to sit down on a two hour dinner with somebody that you don't know? If you, if a woman won't, doesn't accept a lightweight first date as your

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  first meeting, then that is going to tell, in my opinion, tell you a lot about her expectations in the relationship. And that might be okay with some guys. Like they want to exclusively be the pariah or they're okay with somebody who has high expectations around fancy dinners and gifts and receiving things. But a lot of guys, that's not what they're looking for. They're okay bringing that to the table, but they also want somebody who is interested in just getting to know them. So I like short and sweet and inexpensive.

• 1:03:09Jack Selby?

  What are some of the downsides to being an attractive woman?

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  You get a lot of inbound and it's hard to tell who's actually going to be a good partner or could be a good fit for you versus who is just interested in you for your looks.

• 1:03:24Jack Selby?

  And what's the filter look like on that?

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  Oftentimes, and this is why women get frustrated with dating apps and end up giving up, is because there isn't a good filtering mechanism. It often requires actually going out on the date with the person to understand if that person is a good fit and going to be a good partner. It's not just, it's, you know, back to women care less about what a man looks like. They want to know what a relationship could look like with him. And it's really hard to determine that until you're actually getting to know them. So it's hard to, for, to filter for that until you're in person.

• 1:03:59Graham Stephan?

  Are there any downsides of being an attractive guy?

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:04:03Graham Stephan?

  No downsides whatsoever.

• 1:04:05Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm sure, again, you're, you're getting more attention, but I don't think for most men that that is a problem.

• 1:04:13Graham Stephan?

  What would you say is one trait in men women say they want, but actually don't reward?

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• 1:05:03Speaker 01

  Being nice. And I think that, you know, there's obviously some nuance there. Like you, it's not that you can't be nice as a guy, but if you're too nice and that comes in the form of letting people walk all over you, bending over backwards for a woman you barely know, that's a turn off. So yeah, a woman wants a guy who is kind, who treats people well, but not at their own expense.

• 1:05:27Graham Stephan?

  And what's the best way to approach someone if you see them and you want to date?

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  Don't overcomplicate it. So oftentimes I see guys either freezing up or not, and not approaching at all because they feel like they don't have the perfect line. And they don't have something funny or witty or interesting to say when they see an attractive woman. And you don't need that. Sure, that can work if it comes to you and that's one of your skill sets, but for many men, that's not their skill set. So having a few lines that you use that are authentic to you and feel like in your own voice that you can use in any situation is really effective. So something like, hey, I've seen you here before, but we haven't met, so I wanted to come introduce myself. Obviously, if you've seen them there before, it's someplace you go repeatedly.

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  Or you caught my eye and I'd kick myself later if I didn't say hello. Super simple and it starts the conversation. And sometimes I'll hear, well, then she's gonna, she's gonna think I'm like interested in her. And it's like, well, you are interested in her. And that's okay, especially if you're interested in getting to know her through a conversation and not just, hey, I saw you from over there, so I wanted to come ask for your phone number. Because then you're showing her, oh, I don't really care like whether or not you're interesting or whether or not we're a fit. I'm just here for your number. So that's why actually what you say after that opening line is more important than what that opening line is in and of itself.

• 1:06:53Graham Stephan?

  But then what happens when you run out of things to say? You just go blank.

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  Like you can't have a conversation?

• 1:06:58Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, it's just like you say the line, she's like, oh, hi, my name is Cheryl.

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:02Graham Stephan?

  And you just blank.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  Then, well, you do need to be ready to like speak a little bit further.

• 1:07:06Graham Stephan?

  Okay, but what if you're like a minute into the conversation, but you just blank? You just run out of things to say?

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  And you don't know what to say?

• 1:07:12Graham Stephan?

  You have no idea what to say.

• 1:07:13Speaker 01

  Okay, that's a good opportunity to excuse yourself. Well, I've gotta go, I've gotta get going. It's been great chatting with you. I'd love to continue the conversation over coffee sometime.

• 1:07:21Graham Stephan?

  But how do you overcome that? Let's say you are on the date and you're like five minutes into it and then you run out of things to say. Cause that's the most common thing that I would say overalls, you just run out of things to talk about.

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  So I guess there's two potential problems there. One is if you just don't, literally don't have things to talk about, then you need to get some hobbies and pick up some new interests. Because if you are an interesting person and you have interesting, fun things going on in your life and you're reading interesting books and listening to good podcasts, you're probably not going to run out of things to talk about on a first date. Cause you don't know this person. So there's endless things to talk about and get to know them. Alternatively, if the problem is your mind is going blank because you're nervous and you actually do have things to say, but you're like, oh, I don't know. My mind has, you know, escaped me. Then that's a problem that is addressed differently. And I would say you need more practice. And that practice can come from going on more dates

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  or just getting out and talking to more people. That's a problem I actually see a lot of, especially with twenties and thirties men, is they aren't having a lot of social interactions. So then they go on a date and they feel uncomfortable carrying a conversation or their mind does go blank because they're nervous, because they're ordering their groceries and getting their food and doing everything from the com- and working from the comfort of their own home, instead of going out and getting comfortable, engaging with people, making people laugh, flirting with random strangers to develop that skill.

• 1:08:50Jack Selby?

  How is the, the classic, hey, I saw you from across the bar and I thought you were really cute. My name's Jack. Oh, hi, my name's Cheryl. And then I say, could I get you a drink? Is that too fast? Like, how, is that a fine approach?

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  I think it's a fine approach. I think is you're, ideally, if she's accepting that drink from you, it is signal that she's opening, open to continuing the conversation. You might have a little more pleasantries before just right going into asking for the drink. That goes back to why I don't want you to spend a lot of money on a first date. You don't know her yet. So maybe exchange a few words first. And then I'd love to offer, I'd love to offer to buy you a drink. Like, can I get you a drink? Is an appropriate next step to extend the conversation.

• 1:09:40Jack Selby?

  And how do you not be creepy?

• 1:09:42Speaker 01

  Guys are very fearful of being creepy. I see this, I hear this all the time. And what I have learned is often the guys who are worried about being creepy, they aren't the problem. They aren't usually the ones who are creepy. It's the guys who that's not even on his radar that is. Going around creeping out women. And so I actually conducted some survey, a survey of like 2,000 women ages, I think it was 18 to 42, around what they found to be creepy. Because I was constantly hearing this from clients, like, I'm worried about being creepy. I'm like, well, what are you doing that you think is creepy? And they either weren't sure, or it was things that I was like, that's not creepy. Like, approaching a woman isn't creepy if you don't do it in a creepy way.

• 1:10:27Speaker 01

  So I did this survey of women, and the things that they, some of the top things that they found creepy was excessive staring. So it's not looking at a woman. You can look and make eye contact, but then look away. Don't, you know, give her the serial killer stare. Inappropriate contact online was another big one. So that looks like reaching out. If you meet a woman in person, that is your opportunity ideally to ask her out. There are obviously exceptions to this rule. But if you have to jump through hoops to find somebody online, and then you shoot them a message online when you could have chatted with them in person, that often comes off as creepy. And then a lot of the obvious stuff, like unwanted physical touch,

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  showing up places where they are uninvited, which like, most guys aren't doing those things. Don't add people on social media. I do matchmaking as well, which I have a lot of thoughts on why that's better for a lot of people than dating apps. But I tell clients, both the women candidates and the male clients, do not add this person on social media before the date. Go get to know them on the date. It is weird to track them down, and you're gonna make a lot of assumptions without getting to know them. Sort of like the woman making assumptions about you based on who you've interviewed or what she saw on your Instagram. It's like a lot of those things.

• 1:11:54Speaker 01

  Would be fine, probably even with her, once she got to know you. But people make a lot of assumptions, and that's also why I say leave, oftentimes, I recommend leaving political affiliation and religion off of your dating app profiles, because people just assume so much with that one little word that could not be true, or they could be okay with once they got to know you.

• 1:12:16Graham Stephan?

  What about different icks? Now, really quick, I just want to say that when Jack and I started the podcast, it seemed as though we had to figure out everything ourselves, from the best camera equipment to use, the best editing style, the best way to clip up content. It was daunting. If you've ever started a business, you know exactly what I'm talking about. And that's also why today's sponsor is so relevant, and that would be Shopify. Without exaggeration, Shopify is pretty much your all-in-one business partner. They power millions of businesses worldwide, from major brands like Mattel and Jimm Shark to everyday entrepreneurs just getting started. Fun fact, by the way, but if you've shopped online in the US, there's a good chance it was done through Shopify, because they power 10% of all American e-commerce. What's great about Shopify is that they give you a complete design studio

• 1:13:00Graham Stephan?

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• 1:13:45Graham Stephan?

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• 1:14:29Graham Stephan?

  the Range Rover Sport is so much more than a luxury vehicle. It's a statement. And you could build your Range Rover Sport today by going to rangerover.com/us/sport. Again, that's rangerover.com/us/sport. The link also down below in the description. Thank you so much, Range Rover, for sponsoring this episode. What about different icks?

• 1:14:51Speaker 01

  I feel like the ick movement or like people talking about icks is like, it can be problematic because oftentimes these icks are things that are really stupid and things that don't actually matter in a relationship, but people are using them as like a reason to not go on another date with someone like, oh, his like Apple Watch gave me the ick or like the car he drove gave me the ick. And so they're often, I think, very superficial things. And that's one of the problems with dating generally is people tend to focus or can focus either on things that are superficial or things that they think they need or want that the other person doesn't have that don't actually matter when it comes down to it.

• 1:15:36Jack Selby?

  And what about legitimate deal breakers? What would be something that you see in someone, a girl or a guy, that you think, okay, you know, they have to solve this before they can get in a relationship?

• 1:15:47Speaker 01

  A misalignment in values, which isn't necessarily something to be solved. It's just something that would indicate this is a deal breaker and we aren't compatible. Other things that would maybe be solvable is the person not being emotionally available or ready to be in a relationship. I see that all the time. She's so perfect. We have all these things in common, but the woman just clearly isn't investing the time and the energy in them. For whatever reason, she's not over her ex. She doesn't value him for whatever reason. Again, it's like almost none of their business why she's not interested. But if she's not putting the same amount of effort in, that should be a deal breaker.

• 1:16:29Jack Selby?

  Okay, we have a list of things and then you're gonna respond ick, red flag, deal breaker, or nothing.

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:16:36Jack Selby?

  Okay? He's 35 and has never had a relationship longer than three months.

• 1:16:41Speaker 01

  Red flag.

• 1:16:42Jack Selby?

  He still talks, or he talks about his ex on the first date.

• 1:16:46Speaker 01

  Ooh, red flag.

• 1:16:48Jack Selby?

  He still lives with his parents, but says he's saving up for a down payment.

• 1:16:53Speaker 01

  Not a problem.

• 1:16:54Jack Selby?

  He asks you to split the bill after dinner.

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  Ick.

• 1:16:57Jack Selby?

  His profile says, "No drama, just good vibes."

• 1:17:01Speaker 01

  Deal breaker.

• 1:17:02Jack Selby?

  Really? He sends voice notes instead of texts.

• 1:17:07Speaker 01

  Fine.

• 1:17:08Jack Selby?

  He brings up astrology unironically.

• 1:17:12Speaker 01

  Fine for me. A deal breaker for a lot of people. I have a story about that, actually, next.

• 1:17:18Jack Selby?

  His bed doesn't have a headboard.

• 1:17:20Speaker 01

  Mmm, ick.

• 1:17:22Jack Selby?

  He vapes during the date.

• 1:17:23Speaker 01

  Deal breaker.

• 1:17:25Jack Selby?

  He orders a milkshake at dinner.

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  Red flag.

• 1:17:29Jack Selby?

  He describes himself as sapiosexual.

• 1:17:32Speaker 01

  Um, ick.

• 1:17:36Jack Selby?

  He says his love language is physical touch within the first three minutes.

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  Red flag.

• 1:17:42Jack Selby?

  His profile pic, holding up a dead fish, shirtless, in a trucker hat.

• 1:17:46Speaker 01

  Ick.

• 1:17:47Jack Selby?

  He texts you "W Y D" at 1:14 a.m.

• 1:17:50Speaker 01

  Red flag.

• 1:17:52Jack Selby?

  He has a-

• 1:17:52Speaker 01

  Deal breaker, actually.

• 1:17:53Jack Selby?

  He has a framed photo of Elon Musk on his nightstand.

• 1:17:57Speaker 01

  Red flag.

• 1:17:59Jack Selby?

  Jack's describing himself. Really outing yourself, Jack. I have a headboard. Okay, Grant, I have a-

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  That's a fixable problem.

• 1:18:06Jack Selby?

  It's from Ikea. It's good. And it matches my nightstands, too. Thank you very much. Okay, one thing Chris Williamson said to look out for in women and for long-term healthy relationships would be, "Don't go after women who are psychologically unstable." Terms of like, if you can find a girl who's able to stay calm through a little bit of chaos, that is the biggest green flag you can possibly look for. Would you agree with this?

• 1:18:31Speaker 01

  I agree, and I think that goes for both men and women. Life, you know, is going to have its ups and downs. There is going to be some chaos. And so you want somebody who can remain level-headed.

• 1:18:43Jack Selby?

  What are some questions that you could ask a date?

• 1:18:47Graham Stephan?

  To determine if they have certain green flags.

• 1:18:49Speaker 01

  Um, it depends on what you, you as the one like determining are looking for. So let's say that you want somebody who,

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  you want somebody who is ambitious and goes after things that they want. Asking about their past jobs, like where they started at their company could be something that tells you, okay, are you working towards a specific goal? Or even, uh, do you go skiing? Like, are you a skier? Skiing indicates like a certain amount of effort required to have fun. You have to schlep all your stuff around. You have to stick with it, usually year after year to continue to improve. That shows dedication. Do you speak a foreign language? Commitment, you know, interest in cultures or people outside of yourself. So depending on what you're trying to determine of like they have as a green flag, affects, you know, what kind of questions you should ask.

• 1:19:43Speaker 01

  But I think there are questions, like sort of sneaky questions that can get at the underlying meaning.

• 1:19:47Graham Stephan?

  I would say the best question, ask them about their ex. And if they go on a tirade and they start badmouthing the person or they start gossiping, that's a red flag. But if they don't and they say, you know what, it was a great relationship. We just didn't work out, green flags.

• 1:20:03Speaker 01

  I think that is a green flag, but I would not ask about an ex on a first date. I think that needs to be at least third, fourth, fifth date material.

• 1:20:10Graham Stephan?

  Really? Fifth date in?

• 1:20:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, maybe third, if you're getting to that like level of closeness. But I think asking about someone's ex on a first date, it's like, why do you want to know? Like, let's get to know each other.

• 1:20:22Graham Stephan?

  What about asking, like, how long have you been single for?

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  So the problem with that is I think it can be misleading. So one of your questions was 35 and never had a relationship longer than three months. And I think my answer to that was red flag, but there are, there are definitely valid reasons. And there are a lot of really awesome guys out there who fall into that category. And it's totally legit. You've been focusing on your career. You just haven't put time and effort into dating. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's like, oh, antenna up. Let's like, learn more about it.

• 1:20:59Graham Stephan?

  So what's the appropriate way to ask about something like that?

• 1:21:02Speaker 01

  I think asking directly is appropriate. It just feels like on a first date, somewhat. Interrogating because they might feel put on the spot or uncomfortable with their and like what the answer actually is, where I would prefer on a first date, you're really understanding if you have shared interest, if your values align, like just focusing on flirting and having fun really, and then work on uncovering some of those red flags that might be there, or even the green flags on future dates. I think when you focus too much on like, I need to learn these specific things about them, the first date doesn't end up being fun. So, early on,

• 1:21:43Speaker 01

  just focus on having fun. And then on the next dates, you can be more intentional about what you want to uncover or know.

• 1:21:52Jack Selby?

  And how much talking should you be doing versus the date?

• 1:21:55Speaker 01

  Okay, I tell men, they should strive for 70/30, her talking 70% of the time. Good conversations usually end up more being like 50/50, but if you're striving to have her talk more, that's going to be better than having her talk less. People fundamentally think that dates went better the more they talked.

• 1:22:17Jack Selby?

  How bad is it to just cut through all filters and then point out something like, maybe she's being a little quiet and you're like, hey, by the way, I just kind of picked up, you're a little quiet. Is there, like, are you more shy? And just kind of cutting through all of like the societal norms of everyone saying, hey, you need to open up the door for them, or you need to do this, you need to do that. And you just cut through it and you're just like, hey, this is something I just noticed. What do you think about that?

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  Well, I feel like that's different things, like opening the door for them and, you know, following the societal norms of the date is something I would recommend. But I definitely, I think there can be benefits to like, cutting through the bullshit and especially if you see something like that, like, you seem like a little uncomfortable, or you seem a little shy right now, can be effective because it demonstrates you're not worried about what she's gonna say. If she says, yeah, I don't actually want to be here right now, or you're not as cute as your photos, like, you're not worried about that. Like, you're just getting your answer. So I think that can be effective.

• 1:23:12Jack Selby?

  What about the amount of partners that someone has had and the the duration of those partnerships or relationships? When does that matter? When does it not matter?

• 1:23:22Speaker 01

  So it can definitely tell you something about them. So if this person has only been in long-term relationships and they go from relationship to relationship, that certainly means something different than if this person has never had a significant other. And it doesn't, I wouldn't say you should take too much stock in it because people change. And sometimes someone hasn't had a partner because it, they were focusing on work or it just wasn't important to them and now it is. So it's not to say the future can't be different, but a good indicator of future behavior is past behavior. So it can be relevant.

• 1:23:59Jack Selby?

  And what if you're someone who wants to improve yourself before going out into the dating pool? Like, I always think for myself, like, I want to become more successful, get in better shape, have better things going on before I eventually find like my long-term partner because I feel like as I continue to try to become a better person, it'll open up more opportunity for me in that area.

• 1:24:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:25Jack Selby?

  How do you know when to draw the line and to actually like start looking and putting more effort into that versus like developing yourself?

• 1:24:32Speaker 01

  So that's something I see all the time and that's how oftentimes the guys I work with end up being 35 or 40 and single because they've spent all of this time building themselves and oftentimes investing in themselves in very meaningful ways, but they haven't spent the time investing in their dating life in the same way. So actually, I would encourage someone who's in that position, start dating now. You're never a finished product. You are always, hopefully, going to be striving to be better, to improve in those different areas. But that doesn't mean you have to put your dating life on hold. Sure, if you're not meeting table stakes, like you're not in decent shape and you don't have a job, like those might be things that you want to take care of before putting yourself

• 1:25:17Speaker 01

  out there because you're going to get drastically better matches. But if you're just trying to lose a little body fat or, you know, improve your portfolio a bit more.

• 1:25:28Speaker 01

  Get out there and start dating and continue to work on those things.

• 1:25:31Graham Stephan?

  If you could make one cultural rule that everyone would have to follow, what would it be?

• 1:25:37Speaker 01

  Ghosting. It leads to just so much confusion and in my experience, both men and women spiraling into like, well, maybe there's still hope here or but why did this person do that? Where if you just have the common decency to shoot somebody a message like, I really enjoyed meeting you. This isn't the romantic connection I'm looking for. I wish you the best. It closes the door. It shows that you have respect for other people. And it's just like common decency.

• 1:26:10Jack Selby?

  I remember when I had first got into the dating pool. Like for the first time and I was trying to actively date. In the event I was ghosted, I would have a text that I could send and be like, hey, I just noticed like you, you know, you didn't respond. And I was just curious because I'm trying to learn, like, what could I have improved on? And that's totally cool. Like, we don't need to be anything. And I'm not looking for anything from you. Maybe just an answer and some clarity. And I actually would get a lot of like thoughtful responses.

• 1:26:40Speaker 01

  Really? Like, what did they say? Do you feel like they were being honest?

• 1:26:43Jack Selby?

  Yeah, absolutely. They're like, hey, to be honest, it was just kind of this or hey, to be honest, like I just started talking to someone else or hey, to be honest, like, you know, I found it a little, you know, odd how you were, you know, super interested in Spikeball. You know, I don't know, like, it could be anything.

• 1:26:56Speaker 01

  And did you feel like it was helpful in improving for future dates?

• 1:26:59Jack Selby?

  Yeah. And in fact, I remember when I first downloaded the dating apps, like my opener to a lot of people, which actually had a really high success rate, success rate, because on Hinge, you can like someone's picture and have a comment as well. And I would say, hey, just curious, uh, we don't even need like to talk, but can you critique my profile? I just downloaded this like last week.

• 1:27:22Graham Stephan?

  That's a great one.

• 1:27:23Jack Selby?

  And I got a lot of matches and people were like, yeah, honestly, remove this picture, like do this. And I was getting like data points from people.

• 1:27:32Graham Stephan?

  That's a fantastic one. I love that.

• 1:27:34Jack Selby?

  This was like when I was, uh, like at UCSB.

• 1:27:37Speaker 01

  And did people, did some of those then translate into dates?

• 1:27:40Jack Selby?

  Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Once I was like, okay, well, like, what about these pictures?

• 1:27:43Graham Stephan?

  Don't be so funny. How about you critique my first date? That's what it should be.

• 1:27:49Speaker 01

  You are so good at the pointers.

• 1:27:51Jack Selby?

  I can't believe anything you're saying. Like, I don't know about this.

• 1:27:53Graham Stephan?

  Let's critique this relationship together.

• 1:27:55Jack Selby?

  Yeah, that's funny.

• 1:27:57Speaker 01

  Are you still on the dating apps?

• 1:27:58Jack Selby?

  Uh, yeah.

• 1:28:00Speaker 01

  Should we look at your profile?

• 1:28:01Graham Stephan?

  You know what we should do?

• 1:28:02Jack Selby?

  No, I don't, I don't know about my.

• 1:28:04Graham Stephan?

  Yes, this is going to be a member exclusive. So if you want to see this entire interaction, join the membership. You'll be able to see this entire episode uncensored in full, including Jack's dating profile review.

• 1:28:17Jack Selby?

  Uh, I don't know if I want to do a dating profile review because I have friends' profiles.

• 1:28:22Graham Stephan?

  Nope.

• 1:28:23Jack Selby?

  That we can.

• 1:28:24Graham Stephan?

  For the members, Jack. We gotta do it for the members.

• 1:28:26Speaker 01

  Do it for the members.

• 1:28:27Graham Stephan?

  Do it for the members.

• 1:28:27Jack Selby?

  We'll see.

• 1:28:28Speaker 01

  You have access to the best dating coach in the world.

• 1:28:30Graham Stephan?

  You could always decide not to post it.

• 1:28:31Jack Selby?

  Yeah, yeah, you're right. We, we could decide to cut it out. Okay, we, we can, we can do this. Yes, this will happen.

• 1:28:40Graham Stephan?

  How do you recommend getting over our breakup?

• 1:28:42Speaker 01

  There's a certain point where you just have to get back out there. I wouldn't say that's step one. Step one is invest in yourself. So what's something you've, if you're heartbroken, you, maybe you did the breaking up or maybe you were broken up with, like even when breakups happen for the right reasons, they're oftentimes still very difficult. So what is something that maybe you let fall by the wayside during your relationship, whether it was spending time with friends or a hobby that you enjoyed or something that you wanted to pick up and spend some time getting good at that? Because that's going to be effective for a few different reasons. It's going to help increase your confidence. Most people's confidence takes a hit during a breakup because you're going to spend time improving and getting better at something, ideally be good at something.

• 1:29:26Speaker 01

  And you're also probably going to meet more people, potentially more like-minded people by picking up a new hobby or reinvest, reinvesting in an interest. Start going to yoga every day again. You start joining pickleball leagues. All of a sudden, you're connecting with more people. And then dating doesn't even necessarily have to be this distinct like, okay, I'm gonna date again. Maybe you just meet people you're interested in going on dates with by putting yourself out there more.

• 1:29:51Graham Stephan?

  Is it ever worth it to try to win back an ex?

• 1:29:54Speaker 01

  I think it can be. I think if the reason for the breakup, like, let's say the reason for the breakup was you lived in different places, or you didn't have a job, or you were going through something, and that resulted in the relationship ending. And then that thing that caused the relationship to end has now changed. Great, it might be worth revisiting the relationship, maybe. But the mistake people make is nothing has really changed, except you're now lonely, or you kind of miss them. It's normal to miss an ex. If the fundamental reason for the breakup is still there, don't try and make it work again.

• 1:30:31Graham Stephan?

  It's interesting. I read somewhere that when you break up with an ex, it's similar to like withdrawing from a drug. And that a lot of that going on in your mind is the reason why you want that ex back.

• 1:30:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:46Graham Stephan?

  It fills that dependency and the flood of emotion.

• 1:30:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like with any habit. They're a habit. It's something that you've become accustomed to. Your body, you know, craves that thing that they know. So it's natural when you're changing any habit in your life, whether it's talking to or seeing someone, or introducing exercise, or giving up smoking, that there are going to be moments where you crave or desire the old way, no matter what it was.

• 1:31:11Graham Stephan?

  Why would you say situationships are so common?

• 1:31:13Speaker 01

  I think they are more common now than ever before because of the access to options that we have dating. So if you are in a situationship, or maybe you start to date someone, but you know, you still have your dating apps and you have social media, so you're seeing all of these other people. And in the back of your head, you're like, oh, what if something better comes along? You're much more likely to keep that as a situationship, or tolerate a situationship, as opposed to being like going all in and saying, no, I really want to be with this person. And that's one of the problems I see with dating now in general, is everyone feels like they have so many options. They are perceived being that they have more options, whether that's accurate or not, it's usually not.

• 1:31:58Speaker 01

  Because they have the dating app and they're seeing these women, or because they have social media and they're seeing all these other people. So it makes them less likely to commit to any one person.

• 1:32:07Graham Stephan?

  Is that more common for men or women?

• 1:32:09Speaker 01

  I think both are doing it. I think both have the tendency to think there's going to be something better just around the corner. And it's a really bad habit when it comes to dating.

• 1:32:18Graham Stephan?

  And what about being exclusive with someone and taking it from dating to a relationship? When is the ideal point to make that transition?

• 1:32:25Speaker 01

  People always want a timeline, you know, how many dates should I have gone on? And it's really more about the depth of the relationship and what you have understood or gotten to know about that person than any length of time or number of dates. You need to know some of this person's flaws and things that you maybe like aren't super excited about about them, because those things are going to come out. So nobody is perfect. So you want to already know some of their imperfections. And if you think they're perfect, it's probably too soon to be all in or to be exclusive. You probably don't know them well enough.

• 1:32:59Graham Stephan?

  And what are some of the questions you should ask someone when you're dating versus actually in a relationship?

• 1:33:04Speaker 01

  Once you're in a relationship, hopefully you've already asked a lot of the get to know you questions. Those questions that have helped you determine whether they have the green flags that you're looking for, whether you share values with them. I'm a big believer in not rushing into exclusivity. I think if you are rushing to define the relationship with someone or to put a title on it, it often is coming from a place of a scarcity mindset. You feel like, oh, I need to lock this person down or put a title on it because I don't want them to find somebody else, or I want to make sure that this is real. Where the reality is them finding somebody else or the realness of the relationship doesn't come from the title.

• 1:33:47Speaker 01

  It comes from getting to know the other person. I'm a big fan of dating around and people are often like, wait, really? You think you should be dating multiple people? And yeah, especially if you are looking for a relationship, you as a man, you absolutely should be dating multiple women early on. You're being honest about this, you know, with the women that you date, but it is going to.

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• 1:34:57Speaker 01

  I give actually give you more options. It's going to make you more confident. It's going to make you busier. So you're less likely to come off as needy and over invest in any one woman. And it's going to hopefully be more fun as well. So early on, it's a huge mistake to put all your eggs in one basket.

• 1:35:16Jack Selby?

  And what level of like physical connection or intimacy would you recommend if you are dating around? Like, where do you call it? Like, where do you stop it?

• 1:35:25Speaker 01

  So that is what someone is personally comfortable with. A lot of people wouldn't be comfortable sleeping with multiple people. Likewise, if you're sleeping with a woman, you need, and you are not exclusive, then you need to have a conversation about that ideally because it's I am, I always say you can't make any assumptions, both men and women. Like a woman shouldn't assume just because we sleep together. Oh, now he's my boyfriend. No, but if you escalate things physically, it does oftentimes come with certain assumptions, whether that's right or not. So if you aren't ready for that, you should communicate about it. But I'm not going to say like, oh, you can't sleep with her until you're exclusive or like you should only go this far.

• 1:36:08Jack Selby?

  And what about a relationship where the man makes less than the woman? Have you found that to have any issues at all? Or is that kind of like a non?

• 1:36:18Speaker 01

  There are first of all, there are some women out there who are going to be totally okay with it. There are also going to be a lot of women out there who don't want to date somebody who makes less than them, which is becoming. More of an issue. I don't know the exact stats on it, but women are, you know, more college graduates are women than men. Women are increasingly making more money in the same age range. And that, I think we have seen that become an issue in the dating market, where women feel that they're, they can't find a man who is at their same level.

• 1:36:51Jack Selby?

  But now, what about when it comes to marriage and things like this? Does your advice still apply? Just in terms of like having a successful marriage and like building a successful foundation and everything?

• 1:37:02Speaker 01

  Absolutely. You need to continue to date the person you're in a relationship, whether you're married or you've been on 40 dates. You want to continue to bring the fun, to bring the flirting, to put in effort, to ask thoughtful questions. Otherwise, that relationship becomes stale. And, you know, where does that really go? So yeah, I absolutely think a lot of the advice applies, whether you are single and looking to attract new women, or just looking to continue attracting the women you already have.

• 1:37:31Jack Selby?

  So now we're gonna do, it's called this or that. Tinder versus Bumble versus Hinge.

• 1:37:36Speaker 01

  Oh, Bumble or Hinge? Kind of two.

• 1:37:38Jack Selby?

  DM slide or IRL approach?

• 1:37:41Speaker 01

  IRL approach, always.

• 1:37:42Jack Selby?

  Coffee date or cocktail date?

• 1:37:44Speaker 01

  Cocktails.

• 1:37:45Jack Selby?

  Why cocktails?

• 1:37:46Speaker 01

  Okay, so I had a coffee date or juice date with my husband, so you can do that. But a lot of men struggle to create a sexy, romantic vibe. So coffee's not gonna help you there. Whereas if you're getting cocktails, even if it's mocktails, but the environment is a bar, it's more dimly lit, the seats are closer together, you're a leg up in creating a romantic vibe, then you're sitting next to each other on a park bench.

• 1:38:11Jack Selby?

  Gym flirt or bookstore flirt?

• 1:38:15Speaker 01

  Gym. I met my husband at the gym.

• 1:38:17Jack Selby?

  Introvert with charm or extrovert with no filter?

• 1:38:20Speaker 01

  Introvert with charm.

• 1:38:22Jack Selby?

  What was your husband's opening line?

• 1:38:26Speaker 01

  Uh, I've seen you here before, so I wanted to introduce myself, something along those lines. We were at a Barry's class. Are you familiar with Barry's? It's a group fitness class. It was like after class and I was standing in the lobby. And he came up and was like, hey, uh, I've seen you here, so I wanted to introduce myself. And I like wasn't even thinking. I was like, oh, you work here? And he was like, no. Uh, and like, we had actually been taking the same morning class together for like months. And I just like hadn't noticed him.

• 1:38:51Jack Selby?

  Every single day, he went in there, he's like, oh, where's that cute girl? Is she gonna show up to this class? And you're just doing your own thing. That's what every guy's absolutely petrified of. Just letting you know.

• 1:38:59Speaker 01

  And so he was like, and like now, we obviously talk about it, but he was like mortified in the moment. And I was kind of embarrassed too, because I was like, I don't know why I said that. Cause he was just being so friendly and the people who work there are very friendly and like outgoing and make contact like that. And he was just like, no, I don't work here. We like, we just took class together. Well, nice to meet you. And like walked away. And I was like, oh, that was awkward. But then because he'd introduced himself, then of course I did notice him when we were at the same class later that week. So I was like, said hello. And then we started talking. So before, after class, we would chat. And you know, eventually.

• 1:39:32Jack Selby?

  It's so embarrassing when you get that wrong and you talk to someone thinking they work there and they don't.

• 1:39:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:39Jack Selby?

  I love cats guy or I love crypto guy?

• 1:39:44Speaker 01

  Cats.

• 1:39:45Jack Selby?

  Six, four with no ambition or five, seven with insane drive?

• 1:39:49Speaker 01

  Five, seven with insane drive.

• 1:39:51Jack Selby?

  Asking for a kiss or going for it?

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  Can we do an in-between of stating that you want a kiss if you're unsure? So let me explain that, because I think this is an important call out. If you just blindly go for a kiss and like you haven't read the room, like that's, that's the creepy thing. That's a hard no. Asking for a kiss, like, uh, can I kiss you? Also can come off very beta and like not confident. But if you, okay, I, I would like to kiss her. You're unsure. And you say something like, you're standing close together and you say something at the end of the day, like, I really want to kiss you right now. That is a way of asking that is much sexier than just saying, than actually asking or going for it inappropriately.

• 1:40:33Jack Selby?

  What if you say, please?

• 1:40:34Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:40:36Jack Selby?

  Pretty please.

• 1:40:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:37Jack Selby?

  Weeknight date or weekend date?

• 1:40:40Speaker 01

  Weeknight.

• 1:40:41Jack Selby?

  Weeknight.

• 1:40:41Speaker 01

  It depends on the like, the date, but I think for a first date, you're better off asking for a lightweight date early in the evening on like a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday than taking up prime real estate on like a Saturday evening.

• 1:40:55Jack Selby?

  Cologne or all natural?

• 1:40:56Speaker 01

  Cologne.

• 1:40:58Jack Selby?

  What about cologne or just deodorant? Or deodorant and cologne?

• 1:41:01Speaker 01

  I'm fine with deodorant and no cologne. When you say just natural, I'm like, kind of thinking like musty body odor.

• 1:41:08Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:09Graham Stephan?

  What about just natural or Axe body spray?

• 1:41:11Speaker 01

  Just natural.

• 1:41:13Jack Selby?

  Can a girl tell that there's like a cheap and a nice cologne?

• 1:41:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, over like, cheap colognes tend to be overwhelming and very like pungent. Where a nice cologne, you are discovering, you know, as you, are you, do you wear Axe?

• 1:41:27Jack Selby?

  No, I, I don't wear Axe. I, it's not that. I got, I got some cologne. I thought it was really nice. And then I got some critiques from my friends that is very pungent.

• 1:41:35Graham Stephan?

  From men or women?

• 1:41:36Jack Selby?

  Uh, from men.

• 1:41:37Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 1:41:38Jack Selby?

  Yeah. Owning a dog or being great with kids?

• 1:41:40Speaker 01

  I feel like both. Those go like, if you're, if you own a dog and you're responsible pet owner, like it's more a signal you'll be great with kids.

• 1:41:47Jack Selby?

  Funny but broke or rich and just okay?

• 1:41:50Speaker 01

  Funny but broke. You can change that.

• 1:41:52Jack Selby?

  Okay, one word answers. Open up the car door.

• 1:41:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:41:56Jack Selby?

  Really?

• 1:41:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, why not?

• 1:41:59Jack Selby?

  Okay. Uh, I, I don't know why not. I, I just assumed.

• 1:42:02Speaker 01

  What are you gonna do, sit in your car and open it from like across the?

• 1:42:05Graham Stephan?

  No, but she could open her own door.

• 1:42:06Speaker 01

  I think it depends, like, okay, it depends on the context, but if you're walking, you're both walking to the car together, like, why not open her door? It's very a gentleman thing to do. Show chivalry.

• 1:42:16Jack Selby?

  It seems, yeah, it is chivalrous, but like, it just seems a little forced.

• 1:42:21Speaker 01

  So I have a friend recently who went on a date and the guy picked her up. And when she came out of her house, he was like, just waiting outside of his car, leaning against his car. And she was like, that was so attractive. He wasn't in the front seat on his phone, like just killing time, waiting for her. He actually got out. He was enjoying the nice day. And then it didn't feel forced. He was able to greet her outside the car, give her a hug, open the door and get in. Where especially if she's getting into the car and you're staying in the car and then it's like, you're giving her a cross the car hug? That's like, it doesn't give you the chance to have a really good first impression, whether it's like your first time meeting her in person, or it's like. A second, third, fourth date, like, get out of your car and give her a good hug. And that just sets you up to open the door in an unforced way.

• 1:43:06Jack Selby?

  Most underrated turn on.

• 1:43:09Speaker 01

  Underrated. Clean fingernails.

• 1:43:13Jack Selby?

  Worst thing a guy can say on a first date.

• 1:43:17Speaker 01

  Um, what's your body count?

• 1:43:19Jack Selby?

  What women secretly judge the hardest.

• 1:43:22Speaker 01

  Shoes and sunglasses.

• 1:43:25Jack Selby?

  Really? Shoes?

• 1:43:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, if you have like, whack ass shoes on that are just like lame, they can kill an outfit.

• 1:43:32Jack Selby?

  What do you mean whack? Like, how do you know?

• 1:43:34Speaker 01

  Like, you're wearing... Should I look under the table?

• 1:43:37Jack Selby?

  I'm just in socks right now.

• 1:43:38Speaker 01

  Um, like, if you're wearing, like, you're like, you know, running shoes tightly laced up with jeans, like, that's an ick. And you're gonna be judged for it.

• 1:43:47Jack Selby?

  Okay, I, okay, so I, I'm not, I don't do that, so I think I'm, I'm safe in that regard. Pick up artist tricks. Your gut reaction.

• 1:43:54Speaker 01

  Nah.

• 1:43:55Jack Selby?

  Modern dating in one word.

• 1:43:58Speaker 01

  Uh, challenging.

• 1:44:00Jack Selby?

  Most overrated dating tip men still follow.

• 1:44:02Speaker 01

  This is a weird one, but I've heard, um, and I don't know how many guys are following it, so maybe this isn't a good answer, but wearing a red t-shirt. Have you guys heard that one?

• 1:44:09Jack Selby?

  No.

• 1:44:09Speaker 01

  Okay, there was this study that if you actually like, look at was absolute bullshit, that was conducted like, a decade ago about wearing a red t-shirt on a date leads to more second dates. And I have had guys be like, oh, I always wear a red t-shirt on a first date. And it's like, unless you look really good in red, like, that's not a good reason. And when you actually looked at the study, I can't remember the exact, like, how it played out, but it was something like, they asked like, 12 college students. They showed a picture of a guy in a white shirt and then a picture of a, the same guy in a white shirt with a red background, who, like, which one was more attractive? And they like, picked the red background and that was determined that the red shirt made you stand out more, which is like absurd.

• 1:44:54Jack Selby?

  I actually heard about the red shirt thing, now that you're mentioning it.

• 1:44:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:57Jack Selby?

  Yeah, but I don't, I don't consider that going on any dates.

• 1:45:00Graham Stephan?

  It'll be interesting to try, like, what shirt does the best? A button down shirt, t-shirt, what color?

• 1:45:06Speaker 01

  I think color really depends on the person, though, your complexion, your eye color. Cause like, that's gonna really affect like, whether or not a shirt looks good on you. And body type affects the type of shirt.

• 1:45:16Jack Selby?

  True. Is being too nice ever hot?

• 1:45:20Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:45:21Jack Selby?

  Should a man ever bring flowers on the first date?

• 1:45:24Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:45:25Jack Selby?

  Have you ever seen home math's videos?

• 1:45:28Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:45:29Jack Selby?

  That right there would be, okay.

• 1:45:31Speaker 01

  Wait, whose videos?

• 1:45:32Jack Selby?

  Home math. So.

• 1:45:34Speaker 01

  Home math.

• 1:45:35Graham Stephan?

  Here, this is it. I'll let you. This is his most viewed video.

• 1:45:38Speaker 06

  When he takes a nap, it irrationally annoys me.

• 1:45:43Speaker 07

  We can just look that up on the ick indicator. That's why I made it. There are two types. There is not enough of something and then there is being affected by something. This would be a type two. That's too sensitive to sleepiness, having a feeling of sleepiness. And then we just find the degree. This is arranged from more understandable behavior to less acceptable. If he cannot swing a hammer, it's normal to be icked out by that, but not so much if he can't carry a refrigerator. It has to do with reasonable expectation. So if you were icked out from him wearing a raincoat or carrying an umbrella, that would be an unsalvageable ick. I would put needing a nap somewhere in between making a big deal of a cut or a bruise and enjoying music a little too much. I'd place

• 1:46:28Speaker 07

  that right about here. That would be, who do you think you are? Get some perspective, lady.

• 1:46:34Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 1:46:35Jack Selby?

  He creates these diagrams and illustrations that are really, really good.

• 1:46:39Speaker 01

  They're really creative.

• 1:46:40Jack Selby?

  And, and he goes into really, really nice detail about like, he has a video, how attractive are you? And he ranks basically how you can become the most attractive person.

• 1:46:51Speaker 01

  So he looks at someone's photo and is like, they should do this and this?

• 1:46:54Jack Selby?

  It's about like, like, how many points can a guy usually increase on this scale? And what you can do to increase your points on top of just physical attractiveness? He says that women look out for things like trustworthiness, honesty.

• 1:47:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:06Jack Selby?

  But also that women also look for this thing called, that he calls like the dark triad, which is like a little bit of mystique factor. And you can't be like, you kind of talk about just the nice guy that has nothing to hide.

• 1:47:17Graham Stephan?

  The bad boy.

• 1:47:18Jack Selby?

  The bad boy.

• 1:47:19Graham Stephan?

  You have to have a few of those qualities.

• 1:47:21Jack Selby?

  But if you have too many of those, then you're really good for like, you know, just like a one night stand or something like that, but you're, but you're not a great contender for a relationship. And he, he illustrates all of this stuff on a, on a really, really interesting.

• 1:47:32Speaker 01

  I love it. I'm gonna check that out.

• 1:47:34Graham Stephan?

  And then also how to get yourself up a few points on the one to 10 scale as a guy of things you could do, like getting in shape or getting like being good at music, learning another language, things like this that bump you up.

• 1:47:45Speaker 01

  And there's actually a lot more to do as a guy to bump yourself up than a woman can do to bump herself up. A woman can essentially make herself more attractive. And sure, she can be like a little funnier or be a better cook. But those are things like, those are small details that are usually not discovered until later anyway, and aren't going to make a man initially attractive. Or a guy, to your point, get in shape, become more successful, become more confident, learn how to tell a good joke and make her laugh. Absolutely true.

• 1:48:15Jack Selby?

  Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

• 1:48:17Graham Stephan?

  Thank you.

• 1:48:17Jack Selby?

  We have one last question.

• 1:48:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:48:20Jack Selby?

  Imagine a listener out there, a guy who's been struggling in the dating scene and feeling hopeless. What is one piece of advice or encouragement you want him and all the guys listening to remember from this conversation? One lasting memory.

• 1:48:36Speaker 01

  You deserve to be with a woman that you are excited about, and you are in control about whether or not that happens. And my one piece of advice to get to that point is to build a life that you are genuinely proud of and excited to live every day.

• 1:48:54Jack Selby?

  Cool. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

• 1:48:56Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:48:57Jack Selby?

  To all of our wonderful listeners out there. All of your information will be linked down below in the description.

• 1:49:02Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, and also, if you guys haven't subscribed already, feel free to subscribe, hit the like button. It helps us out tremendously, especially if you're at the very end of the episode and you haven't subscribed yet. It's free. And if you want to see, by the way, Jack's dating profile breakdown, join as a member. You'll be able to see these episodes uncensored and a bit early. So you get ahead of it.

• 1:49:22Speaker 01

  The profile was juicy.

• 1:49:23Graham Stephan?

  It was really good, Jack. I can't believe you had that photo on there.

• 1:49:26Jack Selby?

  Shout out to my friends for contributing their Hinge profiles. Shout out Gavin. Shout out Gigi. Thank you for the shirt.

• 1:49:33Graham Stephan?

  Until next time.

• 1:49:34Jack Selby?

  Thanks for guys for watching. Until next time.