Colin Kaepernick: The NFL Tried to Buy My Silence

Colin Kaepernick tells the parts he's never told: what NFL owners said in the room, the offer made while he was being blackballed — and the Jay-Z call that never happened. In this episode of What Now?, Colin sits with Trevor and Eugene for the full story: adopted into a white family in Turlock, the hair that became an identity, the backup who took a team to the Super Bowl in his 10th start — and the protest that cost him everything.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  We need a black face to put out in front. And they tried that with the Players Coalition. That wasn't successful. And Jay-Z was the 2.0 version of that, in my opinion. We're gonna continue blackballing you, but will you be the face of our social justice initiatives? And they offered this to me, as well as Eric Reid. And there was a nice price tag associated with that.

• 0:26Trevor Noah?

  I can imagine.

• 0:27Speaker 00

  Saw Jay-Z wear my jersey on SNL. So I had tried to reach out to him previously, in part to say thank you, at that point, for the support.

• 0:39Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 0:40Speaker 00

  And wouldn't take a call, wouldn't take a meeting, which... All good?

• 0:46Trevor Noah?

  Strange, but okay.

• 0:47Speaker 00

  Hey, I want to ask you, why weren't you staying for the Star Spangled Banner? And give him full explanation why I'm doing it. Systemic oppression, what black people have faced, what we're seeing right now in police killing black people. And I remember he was like, "You know what comes with this, right?"

• 1:20Trevor Noah?

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• 2:00Speaker 02

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• 2:30Trevor Noah?

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• 3:14Trevor Noah?

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• 3:47Trevor Noah?

  It makes you feel a kind of way, man. Makes you feel a kind of way. But Colin, man, thank you, man. Thanks for being here, brother. Oh, of course. This is crazy. I haven't seen you in such a long time. You see, now we're in it.

• 3:57Speaker 00

  I'm in it now. I'm in it.

• 4:01Trevor Noah?

  It's funny, because we would never say "of course." Never. Of course. South Africans, Africans would never say "of course." Yeah, you said "welcome," and he was like, "of course." Then I'm like, "God, it's not 'of course.'" There's no guarantee that you would be here, man. This is a big deal for us, man. This is a big day for us.

• 4:15Speaker 00

  Of course I'm gonna show up for you.

• 4:16Trevor Noah?

  Nah, man, I appreciate it. Nah, I appreciate it. I appreciate it, man. Thank you so much. Nah, man, for real. This is like, you know, there are some things that happen in life. It's funny. So Tracee Ellis Ross was doing her first show on Broadway, like, ever. Someone said to me, "Yo, Tracee's doing her first show on Broadway." I said, "That's not possible. Can't be her first... Can't be her debut on Broadway." It was. It was something I always assumed that it had happened because of how natural it seemed to me. Right. Colin Kaepernick, writing a book about his life, I was like, "Wait, another one?" That's exactly what I thought. No, genuinely, my brain went, "I thought he wrote one." And then I realized, you're just somebody who's been in the public eye,

• 5:00Trevor Noah?

  scrutinized at a level that few human beings will ever experience in their lives. Criticized, complimented, watched, observed, dissected, interpreted, misinterpreted. But I'm talking about on a global scale for a period of time that really most people will never truly understand. And it made me feel like I did read your life story, but now that you have written it, I'm like, "Oh, we don't know you."

• 5:31Speaker 00

  I would say it's fascinating for me because the number of conversations that I have with people that initially are like, "Oh, yeah. Like, I know all about you. I know your story." My immediate reaction is like, you know a small piece of it.

• 5:51Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 5:52Speaker 00

  You know the public piece of it. But even a lot of the public pieces that are out there, a lot of those are misinformation. A lot of those aren't factually accurate. So it's an interesting experience for me in talking with people because I feel like constantly I'm talking to people and they're getting a new version of me from what their perception was.

• 6:15Trevor Noah?

  Right, right, right, right, right.

• 6:16Speaker 00

  Which is like a... That feels like a unique experience.

• 6:19Trevor Noah?

  Is that hard for you? Is it frustrating? How does it feel when people think they know about how you grew up? They think they knew what it was like, you know, for you being raised by white parents? They think they knew what it was like for you, you know, joining the NFL? They think they know what it was like for you, you know, almost getting into baseball, but they're not. They think they know what it was like playing at the 49ers. They think they know what it was like when you were kneeling for the anthem. They think they know what your romantic relationship has been like. They think they know. How does that make you feel about interacting with people when they all have a preconceived notion of you?

• 6:54Speaker 00

  It gives me a greater appreciation for people who come in curious.

• 7:02Trevor Noah?

  Oh, damn, that's nice.

• 7:04Speaker 00

  That people that come in are like, "Yeah, I've heard what's out there, but like, can you share insight on X or Y?" That really draws me in, because I'm like, "Oh, this is different." Versus the conversations of, "Oh, yeah, I know these things."

• 7:22Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  It's like, great, that's kind of like knowing the news. You know what's out there. You don't actually know the depth behind it.

• 7:30Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's very true.

• 7:32Speaker 00

  And for me, I kind of look at that as like, one, I appreciate that people were invested in that way, that they feel like they know that much of me. At the same time, I love the opportunity to be able to have those conversations and have people step back and be like, "Oh, that's very different than what my perception was."

• 7:57Trevor Noah?

  That's rare, though.

• 7:58Speaker 03

  I'm actually glad you said that because it makes my question very easy to ask now. Being raised by two white parents, how do they deal with your Afro? At what point did you realize they are out of their depth? Where they were like, "Is this what it is now?" Or they were like, "Is this a phase? It's gonna grow." And then what happened?

• 8:24Speaker 00

  So in middle school was the first time that I grew my hair out. And that was... You would think it was the biggest moment ever. And for me, in part, it felt like it was.

• 8:43Trevor Noah?

  What was it before? Was it just constantly short?

• 8:47Speaker 00

  Um, there gonna be a lot of people that laugh at this.

• 8:49Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 8:49Speaker 00

  But there, there were.

• 8:50Speaker 03

  Let me get ahead of them.

• 8:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. I like how it prefaces.

• 8:56Speaker 00

  So, growing up, it was constantly, they would take me a supercut.

• 9:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 9:02Speaker 00

  And would just get a buzz cut.

• 9:04Speaker 03

  Wait, wait, what supercut?

• 9:05Trevor Noah?

  Oh, man, Eugene. Oh, boy, you're missing out in life, man.

• 9:09Speaker 03

  Tell me more.

• 9:09Trevor Noah?

  You're missing out on missing out.

• 9:10Speaker 03

  Cause I've, I've had my own traumatic experience with the barbers, yes.

• 9:13Trevor Noah?

  So, so let me tell you, when I first, when I first came to the US.

• 9:15Speaker 00

  You went to supercuts and didn't know it.

• 9:17Trevor Noah?

  No, he, he didn't. He was with Dominican barber. You got like, you got, you got New York. Nah, you just, you just didn't know what the street. Yeah, but you just didn't know what, what, what you're supposed to do and not supposed to do.

• 9:26Speaker 03

  Yes, true.

• 9:27Trevor Noah?

  That's you, that's what you got caught up in not knowing New York vibes.

• 9:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:30Trevor Noah?

  So, supercuts, when I first came to the US, I didn't know about this, right? This was actually like my, my introduction to it.

• 9:38Speaker 00

  This, this makes me so happy right now. I'm not alone in it.

• 9:42Speaker 03

  You feel seen?

• 9:43Trevor Noah?

  So, first of all, I didn't know that you could franchise a barber shop. Let's start there.

• 9:48Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 9:48Trevor Noah?

  That's not a concept where we come from.

• 9:50Speaker 03

  Yes. You, you. At all.

• 9:52Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, it wasn't a thing. There's no like franchise. A barber shop is a place where individuals who are interested in the manicuring of hair. Gather together. They form a collective and they have a specific vibe and idea of how they cut. So.

• 10:07Speaker 00

  Barber shop is also generous.

• 10:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, oh yeah, that's true. That's, so now, supercuts, my man. I go in, I was visiting our friend David Meyer in Pasadena at the time.

• 10:17Speaker 03

  This was early days.

• 10:18Trevor Noah?

  Yo, I just go, you know when you just type in Google, yo, barber shop, haircut, whatever. Supercuts pops, I'm like, oh, supercuts, it already sounds like a good name. So I go through, get there. There were like, three people cutting hair, two of them were older Asian ladies. Which I'd never seen in my life, but I could not create, I wasn't gonna be like, cause I was like, clearly I'm in another country, so maybe here, just like, the, the cuts are a different thing.

• 10:45Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 10:45Trevor Noah?

  Walked in, and then she was like, what would you like? So I was like, um, well, I had like a very specific haircut I was thinking of, it was a fade that I'm looking for. She was like, no, point there, like McDonald's, pick a number, that's what I'm gonna do to you. I was like, alright, I'll go, I guess, number four. My friend, she proceeded to cut my, when I tell you guys, at a pace that I didn't know was humanly possible. With it, I've never had a faster haircut in my life. I've also never had a shittier haircut in my life.

• 11:16Speaker 03

  He needs a good determinant of how it's gonna work out.

• 11:18Trevor Noah?

  My brother, my hairline was, yo, my hairline was in shock. My hair was just, but it was, it was like, she was efficient with it, bam, bam, bam, done. And then for the next like two weeks, every comedy club I went to, chocolate sundaes, all the, all the comedy clubs where there were black people. They're like, yo, what, what's, uh, so this, how they do your hair in Africa? And I was like, nah, man, I cut my hair here. They're like, yo, yo, cause they used to call me Africa, they'd be like, ay, yo, Africa. Yo, who, yo, man, what, what, what you do? Yo, man, what's, what's that lineup, man, what you, yo, man, who did you?

• 11:48Trevor Noah?

  When I said supercuts, guys were like, nah, this dude, yo, supercuts, my friend.

• 11:52Speaker 00

  So, I'm traumatizing.

• 11:54Speaker 03

  I would assume with the name, it means.

• 11:56Trevor Noah?

  Nah, my friend.

• 11:57Speaker 03

  The cuts are super.

• 11:58Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no. No, I can't believe, you were doing this your whole life? Like, like as a kid, it was?

• 12:04Speaker 00

  It wasn't until I got to college.

• 12:08Speaker 00

  It wasn't until I got to college that I got actual barber.

• 12:11Trevor Noah?

  Colin, I feel like we're gonna be working through a lot of trauma on this podcast together.

• 12:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, I feel like, I feel like.

• 12:15Trevor Noah?

  Supercuts, your whole life is rough.

• 12:18Speaker 03

  So you grew up thinking supercut was normal? Until college, obviously?

• 12:24Speaker 00

  It was normal for Turlock, California.

• 12:27Trevor Noah?

  What is that place like? I, I, I've never heard of it. I, like, literally till I read your book, I was like, where is this? So where did you grow up?

• 12:34Speaker 00

  So, it's central California.

• 12:35Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 12:36Speaker 00

  Um, I think Sacramento, it's about an hour south of Sacramento.

• 12:40Trevor Noah?

  Okay, got it.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  So, agricultural, uh, when we first moved there, when I was four, it was like forty thousand people.

• 12:48Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, it sounds like it, alright.

• 12:51Trevor Noah?

  No, it does, I only like, it sounds like it, okay. You describe it well in the book, I'm not gonna lie. In the book, it's like, I was like, where is this? I was like, California? Is it another California? This is, yeah.

• 13:00Speaker 00

  It, red part of California, which is also misconception, everybody thinks California is like, oh, it's blue everywhere. Turlock, red part of California. Um, also, to paint a picture, two of the highlights of being in Turlock. We got a regal movie the, movie theater.

• 13:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 13:21Speaker 00

  That was a big moment. And In-N-Out came to Turlock. And those were like, we made it.

• 13:27Speaker 03

  The whole town shut down.

• 13:28Speaker 00

  We made it, like, I think, I think if you go down the highway, Turlock is like four exits long.

• 13:36Trevor Noah?

  That's it.

• 13:36Speaker 00

  That's it. That's Turlock.

• 13:38Trevor Noah?

  Damn. So when you got movies and double-doubles.

• 13:41Speaker 03

  It was over.

• 13:41Trevor Noah?

  Yo, man.

• 13:42Speaker 00

  Life changed.

• 13:43Trevor Noah?

  Life, what was your, what was your In-N-Out order? Do you remember?

• 13:45Speaker 00

  Uh, I would just do a double-double plane. So, I was very simple. I've since expanded my, my palate. But my younger, my younger years, double-double plane.

• 13:56Trevor Noah?

  Man, it was supercuts, double-double plane. They were like, animal style proteins, they was like, yo, look at this hair. And tell me if I want animal style. Look at this hair.

• 14:07Speaker 00

  Not a lineup in sight.

• 14:12Speaker 00

  Don't go back and look at my younger photo, please don't.

• 14:15Speaker 03

  This is insane. Supercuts, yes, and then, I'm just, I'm waiting for that moment where your parents go, this is out of our hands now.

• 14:21Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, so why did you start growing it? What happened?

• 14:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:23Speaker 00

  Um, so, reason I started growing it was, I was a huge fan of Allen Iverson.

• 14:32Trevor Noah?

  Oh, okay.

• 14:33Speaker 00

  Also, um, during that time period, huge fan of Randy Moss.

• 14:38Trevor Noah?

  Okay, okay.

• 14:39Speaker 00

  And.

• 14:40Trevor Noah?

  That's actually powerful. We'll, we'll get to that later, but that's actually powerful, yeah.

• 14:44Speaker 00

  And what, in reflecting back, for me, both of them, they were unapologetically themselves.

• 14:54Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 14:55Speaker 00

  They were unapologetically black. They shifted culture within the NBA and within the NFL.

• 15:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:02Speaker 00

  And for me is, a young black boy in Turlock, in a white family, predominantly white community. I was like, oh, that's, that's who resonates with me. There's no one around in Turlock that I get to look to. But how they approached it, for me, that was, it resonated because you are constantly having to fight and battle. All of the conversations around just who you are.

• 15:35Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 15:37Speaker 00

  Which is why the conversation of growing an Afro and the first time doing that in middle school becomes such a, a big moment. Because it becomes a decision that's, I'm not gonna let you hold back who I am and how I naturally show up. And that was, that was a battle and a process. And ultimately, uh, ended up getting braids, which that became, that became a whole nother experience.

• 16:08Trevor Noah?

  When, yo, when I was reading that story in the book, like, this is, this is something that I'd, I'd like us to break down because I, I think you did a really beautiful job of not flattening characters. You know, when people tell stories in life, I think we can all be guilty of this. We can overstate and simplify the part of a person that we're memor, like, uh, thinking of in that moment.

• 16:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:34Trevor Noah?

  Or, you know, gravitating towards in that telling of the story.

• 16:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:39Trevor Noah?

  And that's why sometimes stories can be complicated. You, you'll go, someone will tell a story of a parent who was abusive.

• 16:47Trevor Noah?

  But then people be like, yeah, but why, why did you still like, and they're like, oh, well, there's this other side of them where they were beautiful and they were loving and they were caring. And, and we don't, we don't understand that nuance because of how we tell a story.

• 16:57Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 16:57Trevor Noah?

  Someone can speak about a country and, you know, love it and talk, you know, say beautiful things about, but then someone go like, why did you move? They're like, oh, there's this other side of the country that I, I couldn't stand and I couldn't handle and I couldn't. What you do in the book, especially when talking about, uh, about your parents, I really think you've done a fantastic job because you, you explain them as human beings. Do you know what I mean? You, you, you've got these, these two people who adopt you, and they go through, in my opinion, and maybe that's because of how you've written it. They go through the most complicated relationship with the world they live in because they didn't, they didn't realize what comes with adopting you as a human being.

• 17:37Trevor Noah?

  But just, just, just bring it down for us, like, help us understand, like, your, your parents, you know, how you came to be in their lives, and then, you know, what it was for you growing up with them.

• 17:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, so, it.

• 17:52Speaker 00

  To to your point, I I love that framing, like the nuance around people and situations is so so critical and so important. So my parents, they they had two children already, my brother and sister, Kyle and Devon. They also had two other children who had passed because of congenital heart defects. And they passed very young and the doctors recommended, hey, you probably shouldn't try again. You should look at adopting if you want to have more kids. So they were open to that.

• 18:24Speaker 00

  Ended up being adopted by them when I was five weeks old.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  Five weeks?

• 18:28Trevor Noah?

  Wow.

• 18:28Speaker 00

  Five weeks.

• 18:31Speaker 00

  Now, my biological parents, um, father's black, mother's white. My, from my understanding, I have not met either of them.

• 18:41Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 18:42Speaker 00

  From my understanding, my biological father actually played for the Denver Broncos at one point.

• 18:47Trevor Noah?

  Wait, are you being for real?

• 18:48Speaker 00

  I'm being serious. Um, this is what has been shared with me. So played for the Broncos at one point. My biological mother was nineteen at the time. Um, and a lot of, lot of complexity around their situation.

• 19:05Trevor Noah?

  That time as well.

• 19:06Speaker 00

  And um, that led to me being adopted. And was adopted, born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Parents adopted me. They grew up their whole lives in Wisconsin.

• 19:18Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 19:19Speaker 00

  And similar to Turlock, Wisconsin is predominantly white.

• 19:24Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 19:25Speaker 00

  Especially once you get outside Milwaukee, Green Bay, like you're not gonna find a whole lot of black people. To, to this day, even to my adult life, like going around Wisconsin, it would be like, oh, that's the Kaepernick kid.

• 19:40Trevor Noah?

  That's wild. That's how much you stood out.

• 19:44Speaker 00

  There was no one else. And it was

• 19:47Speaker 00

  also interesting was almost like a framing of like, oh, that's all right. He's, he's one of the Kaepernick's.

• 19:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:56Speaker 00

  Like the

• 19:57Trevor Noah?

  You were a safe one.

• 19:58Speaker 00

  Not just a sense of like, oh, there, there's the person.

• 20:03Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 20:03Speaker 00

  It's like, oh, he's part of that family.

• 20:06Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 20:06Speaker 00

  So like, it's, it's all good.

• 20:10Trevor Noah?

  Did your, did your parents know that you were mixed race when they adopted you?

• 20:14Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:14Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 20:15Speaker 00

  Like, that was never, that's the interesting part of like, identity conversations and having those with people is oftentimes people have assumption like, oh, like, when, when did you realize you were black? It's like, so

• 20:34Speaker 00

  even if I didn't realize it, everybody around me told me.

• 20:40Speaker 00

  There, there's no escaping it even if you wanted to.

• 20:44Speaker 03

  They realize it for you. Don't worry, they got it. Oh, man.

• 20:50Speaker 00

  So funny. If you don't realize it, they realize it for you. Like, they're gonna let you know.

• 20:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:56Speaker 00

  And for me, that, my parents knew that. I knew that from a young age. My, it wa, I actually didn't know this till my adult life. My mom shared this story with me. And I was about three years old.

• 21:14Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 21:14Speaker 00

  We're in Wisconsin. My sister had some friends over. My sister is six years older than me, so they would have been about nine years old. And we're all playing, running around the front yard. And one of the friends goes, oh, get that little nigger.

• 21:32Trevor Noah?

  Whoa.

• 21:34Speaker 00

  And in hearing that, at this point, I'm, the first time I heard this story, I'm in my thirties.

• 21:40Trevor Noah?

  Whoa.

• 21:42Speaker 00

  I'm like, that, that is actually a great depiction of the experience of being black in white spaces.

• 21:50Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 21:51Speaker 00

  Is

• 21:53Speaker 00

  you don't have to do anything to bring about those moments. You could just be living, existing.

• 22:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 22:01Speaker 00

  Do it, doing whatever you're, you're doing with friends.

• 22:03Trevor Noah?

  It's gonna find you.

• 22:04Speaker 00

  And it's gonna find you.

• 22:05Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 22:06Speaker 00

  And how you respond to those situations, well, at that point, I'm three years old, but as you get older, how you respond to those situations becomes very telling as far as what the trajectory for you is gonna be. Do, do you become accepting of that as the norm? Or do you actually push back on that and say, yeah, that's, we're not gonna allow that to slide?

• 22:32Trevor Noah?

  And do you start hating yourself for being it? That's like, that's like one of the biggest ones that people take for granted.

• 22:39Speaker 03

  It's a choice, really, yeah.

• 22:40Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, when people grow up in a space that is unlike them, if you don't have the privilege of growing up in a place where you just look like you belong and feel like you belong, you can also start to internalize that hatred and be like, why I don't belong? Why do I look like this? Why is my hair like this? Why is my face like this? Why am I like, you, you get what I'm saying? And so I, I wondered, did you, did your mom ever say what she felt in that moment?

• 23:02Speaker 00

  She didn't say what she felt.

• 23:03Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 23:04Speaker 00

  But it was, what she shared was, it was a quick response of like, hey, don't say that. And that was like the end.

• 23:13Speaker 00

  So, but to your point around like how you internalize that or how you take that with you.

• 23:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 23:22Speaker 00

  Makes me think of when I was older and uh, reading Fanon and Black Skin, White Mask. And he talks about it through a lens of colonization. And how predominant culture, in this instance, white culture, the impact and influence that has on identity.

• 23:42Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 23:42Speaker 00

  And you either assimilate into it and try to view that as, well, if what they're saying about me is bad, then I should try to be like them.

• 23:52Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 23:54Speaker 00

  To me, the counter of that is, that's why you can have your perspective, but I'm gonna be who I'm supposed to be regardless of that. And I think that becomes important and I think that's decided pretty early on. Like for me, I was very clear from a young age. Like, I'm a black boy in a white family.

• 24:16Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 24:17Speaker 00

  I'm gonna embrace that. I understand we're different. But in being different doesn't mean I have to become like you.

• 24:26Trevor Noah?

  That must have been so hard, though. I, I can't, I can't think of many people who would have that ability. Most people's instinct would be to try and blend in and disappear as quickly as possible. So get rid of the hair so that it doesn't give you away. Stay out of the sun so that you, it doesn't give you away. No, but you get what I'm saying?

• 24:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, blend in.

• 24:47Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, like the idea of being like, no, I'm, I'm gonna be, yo, to cornrow, no one has cornrows in your school, man. Think about that first. Who even cornrowed your hair, by the way? Who did it?

• 24:59Trevor Noah?

  No, because

• 25:00Speaker 00

  This was a journey.

• 25:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You can't just cornrow your hair in Turlock. What are you talking about?

• 25:05Speaker 00

  The, so. What?

• 25:09Trevor Noah?

  Why are you laughing at me, bro?

• 25:10Speaker 00

  That

• 25:11Trevor Noah?

  I know these stories, Eugene. I look at this man's hair and I'm like, yo, man, this guy's bringing back memories in my life. But I was surrounded, I was lucky. I was surrounded by black women everywhere who were like, they were begging me to cornrow my hair. So now I'm like, yo, in Turlock, how did this happen?

• 25:24Speaker 03

  You know, Colin, what you're doing for me right now is um, you're just piercing through a twenty year old mystery for me.

• 25:34Speaker 03

  Some of these things I never, I never knew about, my friend. So thank you so much for um, for helping him feel seen as you were.

• 25:45Speaker 00

  He's just watching a therapy session.

• 25:51Speaker 00

  This is good for y'all.

• 25:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's good. It's good for all of us.

• 25:55Speaker 00

  But to that question, there was two brothers.

• 26:00Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 26:02Speaker 00

  Marcus and Ryan Clay, who had their hair braided.

• 26:06Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 26:08Speaker 00

  Two black boys I played, played uh, football with.

• 26:11Trevor Noah?

  Oh, so brothers, brothers. Okay, brothers and brothers. I like that. Double brothers. Yeah, yeah, but I wasn't sure.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  When I heard Marcus Clay.

• 26:18Trevor Noah?

  You never know. You never know. I'm not, I don't

• 26:21Speaker 03

  Marcus Clay, Trevor.

• 26:22Trevor Noah?

  You never know.

• 26:23Speaker 03

  Marcus Clay.

• 26:24Trevor Noah?

  You never know.

• 26:28Trevor Noah?

  I don't assume anything.

• 26:30Speaker 03

  Marcus Clay?

• 26:31Trevor Noah?

  But you see, now the way you said it could be white.

• 26:33Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:37Trevor Noah?

  Okay, so they all in the tone. Yeah, I was all in the tone there.

• 26:40Speaker 03

  Okay, okay.

• 26:42Speaker 00

  But they, they were the only ones I saw with braids.

• 26:46Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, okay.

• 26:46Speaker 00

  So I went and asked them, I was like, I was like, who did, who did your hair? Like, what was the process? Now, mind you, at this point, I'm thirteen years old.

• 26:58Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 27:00Speaker 00

  It's not like the proudest moment or the best feeling to be like, I'm in middle school, like, how, how'd you get your hair like that?

• 27:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  And.

• 27:10Trevor Noah?

  Why?

• 27:11Speaker 00

  It's a weird question to not know how to do your own hair.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  Like, there, there was no similar super cuss, like, I've been going to super cuss my whole life. Then you get to a point that's like, oh, that's how I should be doing my hair.

• 27:31Speaker 00

  I have no idea how to even get there. And it's not something that's like, we're not in the technology area that we're in today where it's like, oh, let me look this up real quick. Um, still have to dial up and AOL kicking in.

• 27:49Speaker 00

  The five minute process to get it up and running. Uh, so, through that, ask them, like, oh, there's this girl that we go to that lived close by. She was in high school, high school girl.

• 28:04Trevor Noah?

  Uh huh.

• 28:05Speaker 00

  Went over there the first time, um.

• 28:07Trevor Noah?

  They took you with?

• 28:09Speaker 00

  Well, they gave me her number.

• 28:10Trevor Noah?

  Mm hmm.

• 28:11Speaker 00

  So I called, was like, hey, can you do my hair? And I'd gone through a period of growing it out during that. She's like, oh, yeah, come by. So I go over there. I'm like, all right, I have no idea like what this experience is gonna be. And the only thing that Ryan told me was like, hey, just be ready, like, you, you don't know if you're tender headed or not.

• 28:36Trevor Noah?

  Hey, the dreaded tender head.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  You didn't even know what that meant?

• 28:39Speaker 00

  Not really.

• 28:42Speaker 03

  There was YouTube then.

• 28:43Trevor Noah?

  Hey, the dreaded tender head, man.

• 28:45Speaker 00

  At that point, I'm not asking questions. I'm like, I got my foot in the door. Like, I'll figure out I'm tender headed later. I'm, I'm making moves. So, go over there, she's like, ah, it's a little bit short, like, I can see what I can do, also because the texture of my hair, not as tightly coiled.

• 29:07Trevor Noah?

  Okay, okay, yeah.

• 29:08Speaker 00

  So you need more than, yeah. Little extra length.

• 29:10Trevor Noah?

  Mm hmm.

• 29:11Speaker 00

  And she's like, you know what, I can, I can do something. So she, she braided it, but she put rubber bands.

• 29:19Trevor Noah?

  Through the hair.

• 29:21Speaker 00

  I was like, all right, she's, she's going, I'm like, hmm, this,

• 29:27Speaker 00

  noted, I understand what tender head is now.

• 29:30Speaker 03

  Is this happening at her house?

• 29:31Speaker 00

  This is at her house.

• 29:32Speaker 03

  So it's a totally black family in a?

• 29:34Speaker 00

  Black family apartment building that's close by.

• 29:37Speaker 03

  Kids are running around. The TV's on.

• 29:41Speaker 00

  Well, most of, uh, her and her sister were older, so wasn't, uh, wasn't little kids running around?

• 29:46Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 29:47Speaker 00

  Them? But halfway through this, like, oh, we, you know, we gotta run to the mall.

• 29:54Trevor Noah?

  No.

• 29:55Speaker 03

  Halfway.

• 29:56Speaker 00

  Halfway.

• 29:56Trevor Noah?

  No.

• 29:57Speaker 00

  So.

• 29:58Trevor Noah?

  Okay, well, but which halfway? Because there's, there's two different halfways when you're cornrowing. I've been in both situations. One is worse than the other. There's the halfway, literally half your head, like, one side.

• 30:07Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 30:08Trevor Noah?

  In a strange way, that just feels like you're pulling a move, like, even when you look at yourself, you're like, oh, this could be like a statement.

• 30:13Speaker 03

  You're two face from Batman.

• 30:14Trevor Noah?

  There's the halfway where some people do it this way. Then they leave you with like a little, so which halfway, where were you?

• 30:19Speaker 03

  You're eating in the middle.

• 30:20Trevor Noah?

  Just, okay, just one side. Okay, okay, okay. Still bad, but okay.

• 30:23Speaker 03

  Batman two face halfway.

• 30:24Speaker 00

  But also, first experience.

• 30:27Trevor Noah?

  Then it's all bad.

• 30:30Speaker 00

  So, like, oh, we gotta go to the mall, like, get in the car.

• 30:34Trevor Noah?

  No.

• 30:35Speaker 00

  So.

• 30:36Speaker 03

  This is the best first time.

• 30:37Speaker 00

  I'd jump in the car with them. Go to the mall, they had picked some stuff up, cause they had like an event or a game they were going to or something.

• 30:49Speaker 00

  And I'm saying, I'm like, I have no idea what I got myself into, like, I don't.

• 30:53Trevor Noah?

  This is like an episode of Atlanta.

• 30:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:56Trevor Noah?

  That's what this is.

• 30:56Speaker 00

  That's what it feels like.

• 30:57Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 30:58Speaker 00

  Now, mind you, during this time period, my mom is the one who had dropped me off.

• 31:05Speaker 00

  She's calling the house. She has no idea where I'm at.

• 31:08Trevor Noah?

  You can't find people.

• 31:10Speaker 00

  No.

• 31:10Trevor Noah?

  You all remember those days.

• 31:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:12Trevor Noah?

  Where, where the person was is where they're supposed to be.

• 31:15Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 31:16Speaker 03

  Where were you? I wasn't here.

• 31:17Trevor Noah?

  Oh.

• 31:18Speaker 03

  Where the phone is.

• 31:18Trevor Noah?

  Oh, goodness. So she's phoning, she can't find you. You're at the mall with your half head.

• 31:24Speaker 00

  And now, on the way to the mall, like, we're vibing.

• 31:30Speaker 00

  I'm like, hey, this, there are a handful of black people in Turlock, and I'm in the car with like half of them, like. So I'm like, yo, this is, I'm good right now.

• 31:43Speaker 00

  Get to the mall, they do their shopping, all right, jump back out. Like, oh, the hot light at Krispy Kreme is on.

• 31:51Trevor Noah?

  Oh, no.

• 31:52Speaker 03

  What does that mean?

• 31:53Speaker 00

  So that means the Krispy Kreme donuts just got made. Like, they're fresh out. So like, oh, we need to stop at Krispy Kreme.

• 32:03Trevor Noah?

  Oh, no.

• 32:04Speaker 00

  I had not had a Krispy Kreme at that point.

• 32:06Speaker 03

  In your life?

• 32:07Speaker 00

  In my life.

• 32:08Trevor Noah?

  Man, this is.

• 32:09Speaker 00

  So I'm like,

• 32:12Speaker 00

  very much an Atlanta episode.

• 32:14Trevor Noah?

  This is a full Atlanta episode.

• 32:16Speaker 00

  So, I'm, all right, like, what's, there's no other choice but, yeah, let's do it.

• 32:23Trevor Noah?

  The hot light's on, man.

• 32:24Speaker 00

  I'm just in the car.

• 32:24Speaker 03

  The hot light is on.

• 32:26Speaker 00

  I don't fully know what the hot light on means, I'm just.

• 32:28Speaker 03

  What's the name of your new book?

• 32:30Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, the hot light is on, right?

• 32:34Speaker 00

  So, go over there, grab Krispy Kreme, like, all right, amazing. Driving back to the house, vibing. Get back there, finish my hair, I call my mom.

• 32:47Speaker 00

  And I could feel the heat coming through the phone.

• 32:50Trevor Noah?

  Cause this was hours and hours.

• 32:53Speaker 00

  This is hours later.

• 32:54Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you're gone.

• 32:55Speaker 00

  And this, this is my first time meeting them. She doesn't know them.

• 33:02Speaker 00

  I get in the car. Hair, any of that didn't matter.

• 33:07Speaker 00

  It was just, where the, have you been? So it did not help my case on the braids side. But the good part,

• 33:17Speaker 00

  one, braids were very tight. So I had to take, I had to take them out quickly, cause I was like, I can't deal with this, got a headache.

• 33:25Speaker 03

  How long did you last?

• 33:27Speaker 00

  Oh, it was like twenty-four, maybe forty-eight hours.

• 33:31Speaker 03

  So at least you got to go to school with the new braids.

• 33:33Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 33:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:34Speaker 00

  Briefly.

• 33:35Trevor Noah?

  What, what did people say? What did, what did the streets say about the braids? How did they feel? Did you feel like a new colon?

• 33:41Speaker 00

  Oh, I felt amazing.

• 33:42Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 33:43Speaker 00

  I also felt like I got a facelift.

• 33:45Trevor Noah?

  It does feel like that. It is a natural facelift.

• 33:47Speaker 00

  It.

• 33:48Speaker 03

  Is it?

• 33:48Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, it's like mega botox facelift at the same time.

• 33:53Speaker 00

  It also depends.

• 33:56Trevor Noah?

  Did you sleep? Were you able to sleep? Yeah, that's, that first night, no one warns you.

• 34:02Speaker 00

  And it also depends who's braiding your hair.

• 34:05Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 34:05Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 34:06Speaker 00

  Like, this was your strong hands.

• 34:10Trevor Noah?

  Mm hmm. And short, and, and.

• 34:12Speaker 00

  And short hair?

• 34:13Speaker 03

  Short hair, yes.

• 34:13Trevor Noah?

  Terrible combination.

• 34:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, let's make this happen.

• 34:16Speaker 00

  We're gonna get it done, but you're gonna feel it. So, but, was good first day.

• 34:24Trevor Noah?

  Positive outlook.

• 34:25Speaker 00

  Was looking younger already. Facelift it all.

• 34:29Trevor Noah?

  Looking like he was twelve now, right?

• 34:35Speaker 00

  But that turned into, oh, we're gonna find a professional barber shop and barber.

• 34:43Trevor Noah?

  Oh, okay.

• 34:44Speaker 00

  Drove to Modesto to someone who did it professionally.

• 34:48Trevor Noah?

  But wait, how did, but you talk about this in the book. This is, this is like a complicated one. It's like, you know, you've, you've got your mom who cares about you deeply. You were the child that they could never have. You filled this, this, this, this hole in the family. You know, you talk about the love and the affection and all this, but there's also this, this side of your life that was really difficult in that race wasn't spoken about. So like, when you get, when you get cornrows, your mom has a reaction to this. What's her reaction?

• 35:16Speaker 00

  So, the immediate reaction, even to growing my hair out.

• 35:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 35:20Speaker 00

  Was like, well, why you wanna do that?

• 35:24Speaker 00

  Like, for what?

• 35:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 35:26Speaker 00

  And then getting the braids, initially it was like, oh, this'll be a phase, you'll grow, like, you'll grow out of it.

• 35:33Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 35:34Speaker 00

  And then, after that first experience, and then we found a barber shop, and it became, oh, I'm getting braids on a regular basis.

• 35:42Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 35:43Speaker 03

  This is you now.

• 35:44Speaker 00

  This was like, oh, this, from their perspective, like, oh, this isn't a phase anymore.

• 35:52Trevor Noah?

  Uh huh. And how did they feel about that?

• 35:54Speaker 00

  Which then turned into like, oh, we don't like that you have braids.

• 35:58Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 35:59Speaker 00

  And, I mean, there was pressure around it, cause it was like, oh, you can't have braids and play baseball.

• 36:08Speaker 00

  Or like, hey, your Afro won't fit under your baseball cap.

• 36:14Speaker 00

  And ultimately, it came out at one point that was like, oh, you don't look professional.

• 36:20Trevor Noah?

  Hmm, yep.

• 36:21Speaker 00

  And you look like a little thug.

• 36:22Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 36:24Speaker 00

  Which is is a fascinating like insight.

• 36:29Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 36:29Speaker 00

  To your point, because you're in a dynamic where it's your family. You know they love you.

• 36:37Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 36:37Speaker 00

  You know they care about you.

• 36:41Speaker 00

  But you realize that they have an issue with your blackness.

• 36:46Speaker 00

  And that's an interesting piece to grapple with, like. You love me as your son, but you don't love my blackness as your son.

• 36:56Speaker 00

  But that's part of me and who I am. And getting them to understand that, that was a difficult part. And that that really didn't happen until I was older. Because I had.

• 37:10Speaker 00

  I had to have better knowledge and understanding framework to be able to explain to them. What you're doing and the impact that has. And what you're actually saying about me. And not just me, what you're saying about a whole community of people.

• 37:27Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 37:29Speaker 00

  And that's a, that's the interesting part. That ultimately led to me, led me to cutting my hair. Um, wasn't so much an option at that point. It was like, you're gonna cut your hair. And then it wasn't until fourteen years later that I grew my hair back out.

• 37:46Trevor Noah?

  It's amazing how political black hair is.

• 37:49Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 37:50Trevor Noah?

  Just like all over the world as an idea.

• 37:52Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 37:52Trevor Noah?

  You know, because when I think of you as well, your hair. You know, I I hadn't known before I read the book about how it affected you in your early life. But there's no separating Colin Kaepernick from the hair.

• 38:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely not.

• 38:04Trevor Noah?

  When when people were talking about you, your hair was also part of it, you know that. So if you if you had, if you had cornrows, people would say, you're trying to look hard or you're trying to do something. When you're the Afro, they're like, oh, this guy's, what is he, black power now? He's trying to, it it it always symbolized something. And I genuinely like selfishly remember watching these things going. Damn, this gives me so many strange flashbacks to moments in my life.

• 38:30Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 38:30Trevor Noah?

  So in South Africa, till this day, we've seen it. Growing your hair out, especially as a black kid, was a no.

• 38:38Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 38:39Trevor Noah?

  Our schools, that was the probably the the like the first sign of like you are being. Uh, what would you say?

• 38:47Speaker 03

  Rebellious.

• 38:48Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, rebellious, unprofessional, unkempt, un. Like the white kids were my friends. They had like, you know, they had the gel, the little spiky, the the spiky face, the spiky face.

• 38:59Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:00Trevor Noah?

  And then they had the the little coif thing that does that, that it was beautiful.

• 39:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:05Trevor Noah?

  Black boys, the only hair that you were allowed to have.

• 39:08Speaker 03

  Hmm, was a haircut.

• 39:10Trevor Noah?

  Everything off, that's as soon as it started getting long, they were like, and they would, they would measure it. They would come and measure it with a ruler and they would go like, no, it's gotten too long now. Time to go and get a cut, they'd send you home.

• 39:20Speaker 03

  Really?

• 39:21Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, they'd send you home. It was, and this was a big thing in South Africa. Even until recently, there were a lot of schools and kids actually who were protesting. Saying that, hey, our natural hair is not unkempt and unprofessional. It's not, I had this, so when I, I'm trying to think of the times I grew out my hair. So the first time I grew out my hair was, I think it was in and around. I don't even know which hip hop artist it was or what was happening, but it was when that like sideways.

• 39:48Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:48Trevor Noah?

  You know, the the the.

• 39:49Speaker 03

  Oh, the haircut.

• 39:50Trevor Noah?

  I don't know what that thing was called.

• 39:51Speaker 00

  Gumby.

• 39:52Trevor Noah?

  The Gumby, is that what it was called?

• 39:53Speaker 03

  That was called.

• 39:54Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I didn't know the name.

• 39:54Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 39:55Trevor Noah?

  I just saw it. I knew my hair could go big. Went to the barber shop, so my mom would just drop me off. And then the guys would just cut my hair, pretty simple all the time.

• 40:05Speaker 03

  Your mom, your mom is the kind of mom that I pray for at the barber shop. Because the moms that come in and ask how much is a haircut, I hate those ones. Just leave that guy, the barber will figure it out.

• 40:20Speaker 03

  Drop the guy and leave.

• 40:21Trevor Noah?

  Uh, no, my mom would drop me.

• 40:23Speaker 03

  Perfect.

• 40:24Trevor Noah?

  My mom would, she dropped me off and then she'd be like, ah, I'll be back, I'll be back, do do the thing.

• 40:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:28Trevor Noah?

  And I always had my routine, they give me a really nice cut all the time. And then one day I said to the barber, my head really grown out. And then my barber was like, usual? And then I said, no, sir, can you do the?

• 40:40Trevor Noah?

  And then he was like, point at it on the board. And then I, and it was way down, way further than I usually go. You know, the numbers, I went like way down. No one ventures that low, way down. And I was like, that one, and he's like, this one? I was like, yeah, this one. He's like, are you sure? I was like, yeah, I'm sure. He's like, ah, okay, Baba, I see, shy, let's do it. And then he did it, cut around the sides, made it cylindrical. And then he did like the little slant that goes up at the top. When I looked at myself in the mirror, I was like, this is the greatest moment in my entire existence.

• 41:12Speaker 03

  For real?

• 41:13Trevor Noah?

  I leave the barber shop, my mom is waiting outside.

• 41:18Trevor Noah?

  My mom go, she, her face, because her, it's funny with her, she didn't care about the style. She was just like, this is gonna need to be cut again, like next week. My mom went on like a monthly cut basis.

• 41:31Speaker 03

  Oh, yes, yes, you got one of those.

• 41:32Trevor Noah?

  She was like, yeah, I'm done, what, what, Trevor, what is this? And I was like, mom, it's, she's like, this is not a haircut. I I I'm paid, and then she went back, she's like, no, take it off. They're like, you're gonna have to pay for another haircut. She's like, ah, yeah, yeah. Then she's like, I.

• 41:46Trevor Noah?

  And now she couldn't afford to get the the haircut off. Yo, man, she was.

• 41:52Speaker 03

  You see why moms are allowed in the barber shop?

• 41:54Trevor Noah?

  When, yo, when I got to school, bro. I've still got that picture. When I went to school and I was a little kid, I was feeling myself. But even then, teachers, everyone, they were like, yo, what, uh, we worried about his behavior now. We we it became, that was like the first moment I experienced it. The rest of my life, I pretty much have short hair. When I'm leaving school, I grow it out again. That's not a big deal. In the U S, that's when I experienced it in a weird way. I'm at the Daily Show, short hair is like how I roll, short hair, short hair, short hair. Pandemic hits, no one has a barber. My hair grows out, my hair grows out, my hair, I I don't care. I'm just like, this is natural, it's just happening.

• 42:31Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 42:32Trevor Noah?

  And then as it was growing, people would be commenting like, you know, like online and they'd be like, yo, what, what, what's going on? Yo, what's what's hap, and it was a wide range from like, yo, is that what his hair is? Is, wait, what? I don't understand, why is his hair like that? What, huh, what is, huh? And then the number one thing people asked me was, yo, but you're gonna, you're gonna cut it, right? You're gonna, pandemic's done, I mean, you're gonna, I understand where the pandemic, but you're gonna, you're gonna, surely you're not gonna, I mean.

• 43:02Speaker 03

  For real, for real.

• 43:03Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, a lot of people, they were like, we understand that you would have this in a time of distress.

• 43:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:08Trevor Noah?

  But surely you wanna go back to, and the under.

• 43:12Speaker 03

  The professional haircut.

• 43:13Trevor Noah?

  The undertone was always like, but surely you wanna go back to like, you know, like, like this is cool, Colin. I mean, you could, you know, you you're chilling right now, you, but when you, when you, when you do something like, if you like open a company, you got an office, you you'd probably like. You probably, you'd cut it, right? It it's it's the, it's the perception of of what it means to people.

• 43:31Speaker 03

  But here's my thing, I I think since I've been coming to New York often, this this has been my fascination. I see more mixed race people in New York than I've ever seen in my life.

• 43:42Trevor Noah?

  Hmm.

• 43:43Speaker 03

  And when I see mixed race people, I always see them in different spaces. I see them with other mixed race people. I either see them with um, white people.

• 43:52Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 43:52Speaker 03

  Or I see them with black people. And in all of those three situations, they act differently. So when, so for example, at the barber shop, there's mixed race barbers, then they have mixed race clients.

• 44:05Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 44:05Speaker 03

  So when their mixed race clients show up, they sound more black than anything else. So they switch from being who they were before, and then they go, yo, what's going on? And then the other black guy was like, yo, what's going on?

• 44:18Trevor Noah?

  It's the code switch.

• 44:19Speaker 03

  Yes, and then sometimes their white friend would walk in the bar, because it happened the last time, their white friend walked. And he was like, yeah, man, we have, um, we have to, yeah, we have to do that and. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what happened here?

• 44:32Speaker 03

  So when when you're mixed race, who do you feel the most comfortable with one? And who do you have to explain the least to?

• 44:40Trevor Noah?

  Damn, that's a good question, Eugene. Take it, Colin.

• 44:44Trevor Noah?

  That's a really good question, actually.

• 44:45Speaker 00

  Hmm. I'm gonna throw a additional factor in here.

• 44:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, na la means go in there.

• 44:51Speaker 00

  Which is, uh, being adopted, you're constantly explaining.

• 44:55Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 44:56Speaker 00

  The background.

• 44:57Trevor Noah?

  Oh, I didn't think about that layer.

• 44:59Speaker 00

  Cause anywhere my parents show up, it's like.

• 45:06Speaker 00

  And you can see people trying to do the math in their head.

• 45:11Speaker 00

  Did one of them have a black partner previously?

• 45:13Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 45:13Speaker 03

  Who had that face?

• 45:15Trevor Noah?

  You come with questions.

• 45:17Speaker 00

  Oh, immediately.

• 45:18Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 45:19Speaker 00

  So like there, there was constantly a space of, alright, I have to explain the situation. I have to explain, otherwise it's like, I could tell people in anything we're doing or seeing there like, yeah, I hear you, but I'm, I'm still trying to figure out like, how you got here.

• 45:40Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 45:41Speaker 00

  So you throw that in the mix, but what's interesting in, for me growing up,

• 45:49Speaker 00

  even in being, uh, mixed race, like black and white, like, I just view myself as a black man. Because you're gonna be treated like a black man anywhere you go. Like, there, there wasn't a, a middle ground within that.

• 46:06Speaker 00

  Now, the realization that you have as you get older is also, you're gonna be treated different being lighter skinned.

• 46:15Trevor Noah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:16Speaker 00

  Than your friends and community that are darker skinned. Like, that's a factor too.

• 46:21Trevor Noah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:22Speaker 00

  Um, now, when either one of you walks into a, a space that's predominantly white, like, you're still getting treated like you're black.

• 46:28Trevor Noah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:31Speaker 00

  The part that was interesting for me growing up is, and being in those spaces and having white parents,

• 46:40Speaker 00

  I also felt like white people were a lot more comfortable saying how they truly felt.

• 46:46Trevor Noah?

  To you?

• 46:47Speaker 00

  It was, it was almost like, oh, if those are your parents, like, we're good. Like, we're just, we can talk freely because you, you're part of the white family.

• 46:59Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 46:59Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 47:00Speaker 00

  So, I think there was a lot more insight that I got into, um, like the thinking of how white people were operating, just by way of them being comfortable because of the situation. Which is also an interesting, like,

• 47:17Trevor Noah?

  Huh.

• 47:19Speaker 00

  piece to navigate and deal with.

• 47:21Speaker 03

  You know what's funny is, um, growing up in South Africa in a township, there was, I was only an adult when I got exposed to the phrase mixed race.

• 47:29Trevor Noah?

  Hmm.

• 47:30Speaker 03

  Because there were always lighter skinned kids.

• 47:32Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 47:33Speaker 03

  In the township, right? We couldn't explain them, but they were there.

• 47:38Trevor Noah?

  We couldn't explain them. You know why? The phrase makes me laugh.

• 47:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:45Trevor Noah?

  It makes me laugh.

• 47:45Speaker 03

  Yes, we couldn't.

• 47:46Trevor Noah?

  No, because it sounds like there were like ten of you, and then they were like, Emma, gents, ah, guys, we need to figure this out. So, what's happening with this guy?

• 47:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, we, we couldn't explain them because we also, you know, what made it hard not to be able to explain them is no one at their house looked like them.

• 48:00Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 48:01Speaker 03

  So they had other siblings.

• 48:02Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 48:02Speaker 03

  And there was mom and dad, and then there was them.

• 48:04Trevor Noah?

  This is my life.

• 48:05Speaker 03

  And then, but in our heads, it never clicked that they were mixed race. It was just a guy.

• 48:10Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 48:11Speaker 03

  Or a girl that looked a certain way, right? So, when him and I first met, we met through comedy. So he would come to the same club as I would come to, but on the days that he was there, I wasn't there. And the day was, they were like, yo, there's this colored guy. So colored in South Africa is, you know how it is.

• 48:26Trevor Noah?

  Has a completely different terminology.

• 48:28Speaker 00

  Yes. My, and for context, uh, Eric Reid, his wife is South African.

• 48:34Trevor Noah?

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 48:36Speaker 00

  So, I, I've gotten a little bit of insight from her mom.

• 48:41Speaker 03

  Right.

• 48:42Speaker 00

  She was the first one that gave me the context of colored in South Africa being mixed.

• 48:47Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 48:49Speaker 00

  I was like, oh, this is, I, I had to reframe like my mental model.

• 48:54Trevor Noah?

  It's completely.

• 48:56Speaker 03

  So now, all the people that we do comedy with, who would see him and see me, they'll be like, you have to meet this guy. This guy is super funny, this colored guy, this colored guy, this colored guy. And finally, we meet. Then, I went back to the same people, I was like, which colored guy were you guys talking about?

• 49:12Speaker 03

  They were like, that guy. And I was like, that guy is far from colored, not, not a chance.

• 49:20Speaker 03

  Then I was like, what are you guys talking about? Because of his skin tone, they thought he was colored.

• 49:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, because it's a culture, and it's, in South Africa, it's so complicated. You see Tyler going through this all the time, the musician, they keep asking her, why you say you're colored, why you say you're black, why? And, shame, I always feel bad for her because I'm like, they're asking her to explain one of the most unnecessarily complex, difficult situations that was created by apartheid in South Africa, which was, they gave this skin tone the designation of colored, but what happened over time, you know, and it often happens in, in the face of any adversity, a beautiful thing emerges. Colored people became their own culture, but they were forced to become a culture. It wasn't an optional thing. So now, colored is both a culture and a color.

• 50:04Speaker 03

  At the same time.

• 50:05Trevor Noah?

  At the same time in South Africa. But you may not be colored, you can look colored and not be colored. You can also not look colored and be colored. It, it, so, so it's, I, and I think like most things in life, if you, if you just enjoy it and try not to flatten it, it actually becomes more interesting. But that thing was like, yeah.

• 50:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was like, guys, please explain the colored part to me.

• 50:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 50:25Speaker 03

  We're like, you saw him, nah? And I was like, yes, I did. They were like, then? Then I was like, guys, I spoke to the guy.

• 50:31Trevor Noah?

  But culturally.

• 50:32Speaker 03

  Guys.

• 50:33Trevor Noah?

  Culturally, like Eugene and I basically grew up the same life, the same vibe, the same everything. So, so in our, it's funny, you know that question you asked? I think of it, here's, here's the thing I've learned in my life. I'm not saying it's the same for everybody, but I will say this. For the most part, and I don't blame the people, I blame the systems that the people have lived within.

• 50:52Speaker 03

  Right.

• 50:53Trevor Noah?

  I find black people are generally more comfortable and more understanding of the nuances in between. They'll roast you, don't get me wrong.

• 51:02Speaker 03

  There'll be plenty of that.

• 51:03Trevor Noah?

  But what I found was, black people just understood all the shades of black. And they knew that they existed. So they knew, it's like, it's like, okay, even being black from Ghana and then coming to America means that you have a different experience in your blackness than a black American. But you both share one commonality, and that is your blackness. But then there's the nuance and the beautiful tapestry that exists within it.

• 51:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, where you from, who you from.

• 51:28Trevor Noah?

  You get on saying, the same thing goes in South Africa. We also have culture to fall back on. So you, you might go to me like, we colored, and then I'll be like, no, mchosa. And then it's like, mchosa. Now it all becomes like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. But that, that adds another layer to it, and people are more accepting of that. They're like, oh, mama kum chosa, okay. And then, oh, okay, oh, tata kum lom, oh. Then like, oh, his dad is white, oh, his mom is chosa. They would be so much.

• 51:53Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 51:55Trevor Noah?

  It, it was so much easier for them to grasp that. But it's also because, in a sad and beautiful way, I've always felt like the most marginalized communities in the world, whether it's in, when I go to Paris, and I'm like seeing like some of the suburbs, when I'm in South Africa, obviously where I grew up, even in the US, the most marginalized communities are the ones where people are forced to be the most mixed.

• 52:17Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 52:18Trevor Noah?

  Do you get what I'm saying?

• 52:18Speaker 03

  Explain.

• 52:20Trevor Noah?

  In many ways,

• 52:23Trevor Noah?

  poverty is surprisingly inclusive.

• 52:28Speaker 03

  Very much so.

• 52:30Trevor Noah?

  You know what I mean?

• 52:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:31Trevor Noah?

  It's, it's a strange thing.

• 52:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:33Trevor Noah?

  Go to any hood, yo, you'll see every shade, every style, every vibe, every, everything. And like I say, i- it's not to like turn it into like a Disney movie. That's why I say people will roast you, they will tell you about how you look. You will be that light-skinned nigger, you will be that, you will be that Somali cat, you will be, they will say the thing.

• 52:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:54Trevor Noah?

  But the thing is, they will, they both acknowledge you in your nuance. And then they will accept you or not accept you on a human level, I believe. So there is like, not everyone's just gonna be friends because we're humans. But then I find when you move into spaces where people are predominantly defined by one thing. So if you like live in a country, it's like the white thing or the, that space generally has like a, it's like, this is the band, and that's it. If you're not in it, you're not in it, and you sort of like can't be in it.

• 53:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:23Trevor Noah?

  Does, does that make sense?

• 53:24Speaker 03

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 53:25Trevor Noah?

  So, when you asked me the question of like mo- most comfortable, I would argue I'm always most comfortable in a space where people are very quickly able to understand the complexity and the nuance of my thing.

• 53:35Speaker 03

  But we've often spoken about this, and I've seen it whenever we, we do stuff with Trevor is,

• 53:43Speaker 03

  black people in South Africa, they will just go straight into vernacular, like any black, because he speaks.

• 53:48Trevor Noah?

  Any African languages.

• 53:49Speaker 03

  So they'll just go without even thinking about it. And then, white people are shocked that he responds like them.

• 53:59Trevor Noah?

  Eugene is always shocked by this.

• 54:01Speaker 03

  Yes, because I get to watch it from the outside.

• 54:03Trevor Noah?

  They'll always say the same thing. Why do you speak the languages? How do you, I don't understand, how do you speak the languages? I didn't, Trevor, where did you learn all these languages? I'm like, in the country that I'm from, from my family and from my, what do you mean? How did I speak all these languages? How do you not know all of these languages? You've lived here your whole life, in a country that is overwhelmingly made of these languages. I'm shocked that you don't speak these languages.

• 54:29Speaker 03

  With, without fail, it happens.

• 54:32Trevor Noah?

  Really?

• 54:32Speaker 03

  After all these years, after everything that he's done, everything that he's said, everything he's written about, without fail, it happens, like clockwork.

• 54:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, Eugene just sits in the back laughing or just being, you've always, you've always pointed, I didn't even notice that until you said it. I just lived, and then one day Eugene was like, yeah, why do people? I was like, what do you mean? And then the next time, I was like, damn, Eugene's right.

• 54:51Speaker 00

  Because it becomes so normalized.

• 54:53Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 54:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:54Trevor Noah?

  It all becomes normalized.

• 54:55Speaker 00

  You're used to having to explain yourself, and that, very similar experience.

• 55:03Trevor Noah?

  After this.

• 55:06Speaker 00

  We're doing the deal. We're past kneeling. We shouldn't be talking about Colin. We're moving on to action as if action hadn't been happening for years.

• 55:17Trevor Noah?

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• 56:02Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, one of my favorite YouTube Premium features is smart downloads. Because how many times have you gone somewhere and realized, ah, I forgot to download anything? And now you're on the way to the airport and you're like, download, download, download, download. You're on the plane, download, download, download, download. There's no wifi. I wish I downloaded. Now, all of those things that you were gonna watch are just on the internet. Smart downloads basically thinks ahead for you. It automatically downloads recommended videos based on what you like to watch. So even when you forget to prepare, YouTube Premium didn't. I love it. It's like packing for a trip and discovering somebody already remembered the thing you always leave at home. It's always the underwear. If you like YouTube, you'll love YouTube Premium. Sign up now for your free trial at youtube.com/premium.

• 56:47Trevor Noah?

  Terms apply. Cancel anytime.

• 56:51Trevor Noah?

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• 57:35Trevor Noah?

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• 58:18Trevor Noah?

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• 59:01Trevor Noah?

  Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. Hello over there. Oh, and if Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know it was What Now with Trevor Noah. It's the best way to support the show.

• 59:26Trevor Noah?

  Did sport give you a different type of outlet, though? Because, you know, when I read your story, what's beautiful throughout the book is like, we're exploring this life of this young man, Colin, discovering himself, and it's so many layers. It's you as a boy trying to discover life. Then it's you as a biracial boy. You're a black boy growing up in this town where there are like five black people. Your parents are white. They love you deeply, but they have very little understanding of blackness and how it is appreciated or unappreciated. All of this is happening. And then there's this new thing that develops on the side.

• 1:00:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:03Trevor Noah?

  That's actually crystal clear, and that's a scoreboard.

• 1:00:07Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:00:08Trevor Noah?

  Like, what did sport do in your life? How did that change or develop you as a person? Because that's a whole different world.

• 1:00:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, it... So I love sports because they're so clearly defined.

• 1:00:24Trevor Noah?

  That must have been liberating.

• 1:00:26Speaker 00

  It... You can't tell me I'm less than when it's numbers on the scoreboard.

• 1:00:35Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 1:00:37Speaker 00

  And it becomes a space where it becomes very clear if you win or lose, if you're good or bad. That's not to say there's not politics within it and all of that.

• 1:00:49Speaker 00

  But it does become a space that's much clearer who is better and who isn't. So for me, that became a very comfortable space. It also became a space that's like, I can hyper-focus and just go out and do what I love doing.

• 1:01:07Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:09Speaker 00

  And I will say, it also looked different from sport to sport.

• 1:01:15Trevor Noah?

  Oh, okay, same here.

• 1:01:16Speaker 00

  Like culturally, each sport is different. Like, right now, if you think of the NFL.

• 1:01:24Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:25Speaker 00

  Or if you think of the NBA.

• 1:01:26Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:27Speaker 00

  Or Major League Baseball.

• 1:01:29Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 1:01:31Speaker 00

  Or the NHL. Throw it a few...

• 1:01:35Speaker 00

  Culturally, you kind of have a feeling for each of those without ever stepping into the organization.

• 1:01:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:41Speaker 00

  And for me, football was the space. I was like, oh, culturally, this is closer to who I am.

• 1:01:49Trevor Noah?

  Interesting.

• 1:01:50Speaker 00

  And there was... There were more black people in football within Turlock. So I was like, oh, there's more community here for me.

• 1:01:59Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:59Speaker 00

  Um, so I love football in that regard. And one of my early experiences, um...

• 1:02:09Speaker 00

  When I was eight years old and I first played tackle football,

• 1:02:14Speaker 00

  tried out for the team, made the team, almost passed out the first day at tryouts, but ultimately got on the team. And going through our first few days. First is an anecdote to this. One of our coaches, Russ Bailey, was ex-general in the military, I believe, or drill sergeant in the military.

• 1:02:41Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:42Speaker 00

  So eight years old out there. Every day it was like, gotta do 50 push-ups. Um, we'll call them push-ups. I guess, eight years old, you're not getting a whole lot of elbow bend in there. Um, a lot more head bobbing. We'd be doing leg lifts. We're doing laps. I was like, this is terrible. Like, kids are on the field. Like, it sounds like torture.

• 1:03:12Trevor Noah?

  You can tell this man missed his old job, eh?

• 1:03:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:14Trevor Noah?

  Move, move, move, move, move. Come on, get dropped out and give me 50. Move, move, move, move.

• 1:03:18Speaker 03

  Get out here, maggot.

• 1:03:24Speaker 00

  And this was the worst part. If anybody stopped doing push-ups, if anybody stopped the leg lifts.

• 1:03:31Speaker 03

  Everyone else is kind of...

• 1:03:32Speaker 00

  Started over. Started over.

• 1:03:34Speaker 03

  My kind of guy.

• 1:03:35Trevor Noah?

  Oh, no.

• 1:03:36Speaker 00

  So it was like, kids are on the field crying.

• 1:03:38Trevor Noah?

  Oh, no.

• 1:03:40Speaker 00

  It's bad. But that ultimately led into this first drill.

• 1:03:48Speaker 00

  The running back was a 10-year-old, Joey Adaway. Never forget this. Joey Adaway, 10-year-old, one of the few black kids on the team.

• 1:03:59Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:59Speaker 00

  But he was the star. Fast, strong, lean, like, nobody wanted to tackle him. I didn't know this at the time. So we line up for this drill. It's called Cat in the Alley.

• 1:04:15Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 1:04:16Speaker 00

  Terrible drill. Half the team lines up here, other half lines up here.

• 1:04:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:22Speaker 00

  At opposite ends, you have a ball carrier and a tackler.

• 1:04:26Speaker 03

  Those are the cats?

• 1:04:27Speaker 00

  Those are...

• 1:04:28Trevor Noah?

  No, one is a cat.

• 1:04:29Speaker 03

  Oh, one is a cat.

• 1:04:30Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, one's the cat.

• 1:04:31Speaker 00

  So ball carrier is supposed to be the cat.

• 1:04:34Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:35Speaker 00

  Tackler is the other one. So you sprint around the outside.

• 1:04:39Trevor Noah?

  The alley?

• 1:04:40Speaker 00

  And then sprint down the middle.

• 1:04:42Trevor Noah?

  Wait, what? Like, at each other?

• 1:04:44Speaker 00

  At each other. Full speed, one-on-one, but you have the whole team lined up. So there's nowhere to go. Like, you have to go head-on.

• 1:04:56Speaker 00

  So I'm waiting in line for my turn, and I'm supposed to be the tackler. I'm like, all right. And I start seeing kids shuffling around. I'm like, what are they doing?

• 1:05:05Speaker 03

  They're trying to avoid?

• 1:05:07Speaker 00

  Can't go behind me. See kids over there like...

• 1:05:10Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 1:05:13Speaker 00

  I've never done this drill. I haven't been in organized football like that.

• 1:05:20Speaker 00

  Alright, I'm good, alright, ready to tackle.

• 1:05:24Speaker 00

  And I look over and I realize that he's the person I'm going up against. Joey Attaway.

• 1:05:32Speaker 00

  Oh shit.

• 1:05:35Speaker 00

  I made a mistake.

• 1:05:36Trevor Noah?

  Too late to shuffle now.

• 1:05:40Speaker 00

  So I blow the whistle, I take off running.

• 1:05:46Speaker 00

  I get to the end to turn around. And he is already halfway down the alley.

• 1:05:52Trevor Noah?

  The cat's already at the end.

• 1:05:54Speaker 00

  He's already halfway down the alley.

• 1:05:56Trevor Noah?

  He's an alley cat.

• 1:06:00Speaker 03

  I wanted that.

• 1:06:04Speaker 00

  And I, I go to try to tackle, he puts his helmet right in my chest.

• 1:06:10Speaker 00

  And runs straight through me. And I remember, I don't know how hard I hit the ground. I just remember looking up and I see his cleats going over my face. And I just see the sky.

• 1:06:24Speaker 00

  I was like. I'm not even sure what happened right now.

• 1:06:27Trevor Noah?

  Did you hear the words, welcome home?

• 1:06:31Speaker 00

  It felt that way.

• 1:06:34Speaker 00

  I spent the rest of that drill regrouping. But that was my first experience. Now, I say that to say.

• 1:06:44Speaker 00

  As I was playing on that team.

• 1:06:47Speaker 00

  His mom, Mrs. Attaway. Adored her. Adored her. Bigger black woman.

• 1:06:57Speaker 00

  Every day at practice. Hey, baby, how you doing?

• 1:07:00Trevor Noah?

  Oh, man.

• 1:07:03Speaker 00

  Also, very random, growing up in Wisconsin, we were Packer fans. She was a Packer fan. Black Packer fan in Turlock, California. I was like, I don't know how this happened.

• 1:07:15Speaker 00

  But would always check on me. And I was like. In the moment, I didn't. I didn't realize it, but looking back, I'm like. She was making sure I was good. Cause she knows what Turlock is. Like, she just has the experience of being older. And. That ties into the culture that I got to experience within football. I was like. Oh, the sense of belonging within the community here. Like, that resonated with me. And that's not to say that didn't show up in ways within basketball and baseball, but football really became the home there. So the culture piece and then also being able to go out and have that definitive nature of.

• 1:08:01Speaker 00

  Hey, in sports, you get to compete. And you're either better or you're not. And it becomes very hard to be able to skew that perception.

• 1:08:11Speaker 00

  Now, you may be able to do it initially. But over time, players know, coaches know, people watching know, it's like. Yeah, you, you should be starting, you should be playing, that's the best player out there, that's the best team.

• 1:08:27Speaker 00

  So. It has a level of defense against people being able to manipulate that.

• 1:08:33Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I, I think that's. You know, I, I joked about this once with a friend, we, we were chatting, we're looking at like. Numbers in America and it was like, okay, incarceration and then, you know, employment in corporate spaces and talking about like. How a black person moves and then the outsized influence or rather success of black people in sport. And I remember, I really, I really said it flippantly, but I just said, I was like, yeah, because sport is the one place where you can't lie about the person's achievements. Or lack thereof.

• 1:08:59Speaker 03

  It's there for everyone to see.

• 1:09:00Trevor Noah?

  You, you just can't. And we take this for granted, again, I don't blame the people, but I think we take so many of these things for granted. When you work with somebody in an office. How do you grade how good they are or aren't? If we're honest about it.

• 1:09:16Trevor Noah?

  Do you, do you look at their output, but what does their output actually mean? Do you look at their input? How they, you know, feel in the office or what they make other people feel like? Is, is it, is it how they sell themselves in a meeting, is it how they?

• 1:09:33Trevor Noah?

  Yo, we take for granted. How much of that is just plucked from thin air? And it's an idea correlated to how we perceive. Good, efficient. Performance professionalism. You even see it, take it out of race, look at it, um, men and women. One of the things I, I, I remember I was talking to, uh, one of my team members about when I was in office was. She was having a really tough time, she's like, man, I'm, I'm so sorry, I like cried in that meeting. And I was like, why? And she says, I just, I don't know, I just feel so like unprofessional when I cry. And I said, but. It's interesting you say that. But. I've seen the guys have like a temper tantrum. And no one thinks that that's unprofessional.

• 1:10:16Speaker 03

  And they don't apologize.

• 1:10:17Trevor Noah?

  And they don't apologize. You know, be like, I'm sick of this shit. We gotta get it done. And then people are like, yeah, we gotta get it done. He was really passionate about it. And so you realize if you, if you work in an office, for the most part. The office as a space. Has been defined, most of its parameters that we take for granted have been defined. Through one idea and that idea is a white male man. Again, I'm not against it, I'm not saying it's the people are bad. It's just if you bring a group of people together and they define a space, that is what the space will generally be about, okay? So now, that is the benchmark. How far you deviate from it will define your professionalism. You get what I'm saying?

• 1:10:56Trevor Noah?

  So if your hair is far from his, if your style of dressing is far from it, if you're, the way you speak is far from his, if you're anything, if the further you get. The less professional you will be perceived as being. Right? So even woman, you get, so even when a space becomes more female, then that starts to change how we determine professionalism. But even then, it's like, how do you dress, where does your dress get to, what is your skirt, what is your blouse, what, et cetera, et cetera, you know what I mean? And that's, that's the thing that's so fascinating about sport. Yeah, it still comes with its politics and its complexity and we're gonna chat about that, but like. The scoreboard is the scoreboard, man. It's really, really difficult to close somebody out for a long time. When the numbers start to speak, it just becomes this world where it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, here.

• 1:11:42Trevor Noah?

  You know?

• 1:11:44Trevor Noah?

  Do you put your numbers up?

• 1:11:46Trevor Noah?

  Do you beat your man?

• 1:11:48Trevor Noah?

  Do you get that ball to the carrier? Do you, you, you, you, do you know what I mean? And like, so I can, I can, I can see that being this world, but. I, I didn't know, again, you know, because it's, it's funny for me, I, I've experienced your journey backwards. I didn't know that baseball was, was such a big part of your life. And. It seems like you, like, th- this is where you genuinely thought your, your life was gonna go. But then it was like, what was like 200, how many DVDs did you send out to scouts?

• 1:12:15Speaker 00

  DVDs?

• 1:12:16Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, bro, we're talking way back when, bro.

• 1:12:19Speaker 00

  Did you say? DVD?

• 1:12:22Trevor Noah?

  You damn straight, the TikToks from back in the day. Physical TikToks, baby. You carried them with you.

• 1:12:30Speaker 00

  You're gonna have to put an explainer up on what a DVD is.

• 1:12:33Trevor Noah?

  We just have a little pop up for younger people who watch. Yeah, DVD, yeah, you sent out like hundreds, right? How many DVDs did you send out?

• 1:12:41Speaker 00

  We sent out a hundred and nineteen.

• 1:12:43Trevor Noah?

  A hundred and nineteen.

• 1:12:45Speaker 00

  To all hundred and nineteen Division One schools at that time.

• 1:12:48Trevor Noah?

  That was for baseball?

• 1:12:49Speaker 00

  Um, that was for football.

• 1:12:50Trevor Noah?

  Oh, that was for football, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:12:54Speaker 00

  Now, here's. Here's a part that we'll, we'll definitely have to play explainer up for.

• 1:13:00Speaker 00

  My film was actually done on tape. So we had a, uh. Machine. DVD player. That would burn the tape onto the DVD.

• 1:13:12Trevor Noah?

  So we had to go from VHS.

• 1:13:15Speaker 03

  You guys would have been really good friends.

• 1:13:16Trevor Noah?

  Oh, man.

• 1:13:17Speaker 03

  At some point.

• 1:13:18Trevor Noah?

  This is my dream.

• 1:13:19Speaker 03

  Ran his own Apple Music at his house, that's a story for another day.

• 1:13:24Trevor Noah?

  So you had to physically do this a hundred times over in the hopes that you would get picked up.

• 1:13:31Speaker 00

  And did that with my dad and my brother. Sent him out to every school.

• 1:13:37Speaker 00

  And. Just got. Mail after mail, letter after letter. I was like. Yeah, we're not looking for anyone.

• 1:13:47Trevor Noah?

  And was this for the quarterback position?

• 1:13:49Speaker 00

  This was to play quarterback.

• 1:13:51Trevor Noah?

  You see, like, that's, that's another layer that I've never really understood in, in football. And I know it's changing, and so forgive me, I'm really ignorant on this.

• 1:14:01Trevor Noah?

  Why has it seemed like the quarterback position is also like, like a white guy position? Like, and forgive me if I say anything, because I don't know the sport really well at all, I watch like the playoffs. I see the people crashing to each other and then I watch ads for like 10 minutes. I don't really understand the sport. But I love like elements of it, but I, I've, I've never understood that where people be like, oh, he looks like a quarterback or he is a. Just explain that to me, break that down.

• 1:14:28Speaker 00

  The, the best way to be able to explain it is. Think of the quarterback as the CEO.

• 1:14:35Speaker 03

  Of the team.

• 1:14:36Speaker 00

  Of the, of the team. Particularly on the field.

• 1:14:41Speaker 00

  The common framing is, well, the CEO is gonna be white.

• 1:14:48Speaker 00

  They have to be intelligent.

• 1:14:51Speaker 00

  They have to be able to lead and command a team.

• 1:14:55Speaker 00

  They have to be a student of the game.

• 1:14:58Speaker 00

  And all of those were attributes that were attributed to white quarterbacks.

• 1:15:03Speaker 00

  Now. The flip side, black quarterbacks. And these were, these were things that I was framed as.

• 1:15:12Speaker 00

  Freak athlete. Gifted.

• 1:15:17Speaker 00

  A dual threat.

• 1:15:20Speaker 00

  And nothing was ever, oh, you're a phenomenal leader. You're, you're extremely intelligent. You're a student of the game. Which.

• 1:15:35Speaker 00

  It is fascinating because I think about coming out of high school when I was being recruited. At a four point five.

• 1:15:45Speaker 03

  What does that mean?

• 1:15:46Speaker 00

  Uh.

• 1:15:47Trevor Noah?

  GPA?

• 1:15:47Speaker 00

  GPA, so grade point average. So, normal baseline is if you get straight A's, you get a four point O.

• 1:15:54Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:15:55Speaker 00

  If you take AP classes, you can get beyond that.

• 1:15:58Trevor Noah?

  That's like advanced classes.

• 1:15:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, advanced classes. So, I was beyond the standard of what you're supposed to be able to get.

• 1:16:05Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:16:08Speaker 00

  The wonder.

• 1:16:08Trevor Noah?

  Which is also not normal for an athlete, I may, I might add. Like generally because like athletes in America would be, again, not their fault, they would just be pushed through. Cause athletics was so important and is so.

• 1:16:19Speaker 03

  Or that academics get.

• 1:16:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, they'd be like, yeah, just push the kid through, push them through, then we don't care that they're not really learning, just push them through.

• 1:16:25Speaker 03

  So you are academic and athletic at the same time?

• 1:16:27Speaker 00

  Yes. So, the intelligence piece was always interesting to me.

• 1:16:32Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:33Speaker 00

  Because it's like there's a track record, like there, there's data to support what I've done there. Um, but we see this consistently. We also see it when quarterbacks, black quarterbacks have been athletic. Oh, well, maybe you should play receiver. Maybe you should go tight end. And trying to shift position out of the quarterback, um, shift the position away from being a quarterback.

• 1:17:04Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:05Speaker 00

  And we still see this today. Like this is not abnormal for this to occur.

• 1:17:10Trevor Noah?

  Is, has, have we seen it changing though? Like from your time to what we're looking at now, do you think there's been a big change, a small change, no change?

• 1:17:18Speaker 00

  There, there's been some change around it.

• 1:17:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:21Speaker 00

  Um, in part because the talent and performance has become so undeniable.

• 1:17:28Trevor Noah?

  There you go.

• 1:17:30Speaker 00

  It's like, you.

• 1:17:32Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 1:17:33Speaker 00

  Really? Like, you can't make the claim that they shouldn't be playing that position.

• 1:17:39Trevor Noah?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:17:40Speaker 00

  Does not say that they still don't try.

• 1:17:43Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, the perception remains the same.

• 1:17:45Speaker 00

  But I do think outside, um, and more throughout society, people are starting to look at me like, no, that's the normal. That's, that's the norm now.

• 1:17:57Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:58Speaker 00

  Because if I could have someone back there who could stand in the pocket and throw the ball, the same way as his counterpart can.

• 1:18:06Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 1:18:08Speaker 00

  And also can run a four, four.

• 1:18:09Trevor Noah?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:18:10Speaker 00

  Like you give me more options and you give our offense more options.

• 1:18:14Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:14Speaker 00

  And that, that's what we're seeing play out. And that actually took a lot of time for offenses to evolve. And offensive coordinators.

• 1:18:25Trevor Noah?

  To actually accept that there was somebody who could do more than the position had previously.

• 1:18:32Speaker 00

  Like there was.

• 1:18:32Trevor Noah?

  That's interesting.

• 1:18:33Speaker 00

  There was a wave, um, within football that they would have typically would be a white quarterback.

• 1:18:41Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:41Speaker 00

  And then they would call in what would be a, a wildcat package.

• 1:18:45Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 1:18:46Speaker 00

  Which would be, we're gonna bring a running back in to play quarterback. Because we want them to be able to run the ball and give us more options.

• 1:18:54Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 1:18:56Speaker 00

  So like, we need you to throw, in this instance, for the running back, we're gonna bring you in, play quarterback, but we need you to run.

• 1:19:02Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:03Speaker 00

  Which defenses then looked at and were like, well, I know you're running the ball. Like your running back's not throwing, they can't throw.

• 1:19:11Speaker 00

  And it's like, well, you have an option today that can do both of those.

• 1:19:15Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:16Speaker 00

  Why would you not just do that?

• 1:19:17Trevor Noah?

  Predictable now.

• 1:19:18Speaker 00

  Well, and that was the, I think that progression, and we see this early on. Like Randall Cunningham, Michael Vick, Donovan McNabb, um, Cordell Stewart, uh, Warren Moon, Steve McNair. All of these black quarterbacks that came in extremely talented.

• 1:19:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:40Speaker 00

  And I would say oftentimes limited by how the offense was designed to be able to maximize their abilities.

• 1:19:49Trevor Noah?

  Have you, have you ever seen, um, there's a few studies that have been done on it, but there's one that really, that came out really, really recently. Um, somebody analyzed, uh, like a team analyzed the commentary in the Premier League. So the, the, the soccer league in, in England. And all they did, th- this is like one of those where, again, the data, that's where data is a beautiful thing. They just looked at the commentary and the words that were used for white players. Commentary and the words that were used for black players. That was it. That was it. They just wanted to see, when you look at the word map, the amount of times

• 1:20:29Trevor Noah?

  a white player was called intelligent, thoughtful, skillful, it was always like, man, the way they think about the game, such a talent, the way he, oh, his vision, his ability. And then the black players was always like, he's a beast. The man is, you know what I mean? He's unstoppable, a force of nature, a, an absolute, look at him, power down the field. And, and some, and don't get me wrong, some of the things were very complimentary, but, but the type of compliment was like reserved in a certain way. So it was like, on this side, it was, yes, you are like this machine and you are big and you are powerful and you're strong and you're gifted naturally. It, I mean, no one can stop you, you're just an unstoppable thing. And then on this side, it was like, the way you use your brain, man.

• 1:21:12Trevor Noah?

  Oh, just moments where you use your brain and it's, and, and it's interesting.

• 1:21:18Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:21:19Trevor Noah?

  How you, this is twenty twenty six, by the way, we're not talking about like forty, fifty years ago. And again, uh, those commentators, I don't think are being like assholes, the Premier League even has like an anti racism campaign, they always talk about it.

• 1:21:30Speaker 03

  Any black commentators in there?

• 1:21:31Trevor Noah?

  In the Premier League, yeah, that's a good question. I'm sure there are, um, contributors. But I don't think there's many like black main, main commentators, but they, again, because of the sport, they've brought in a lot of pundits. Um, you know, and co-hosts and stuff.

• 1:21:48Speaker 03

  But you see what I also noticed in, um, Premier League football, whenever they speak about a black player, they would always also speak about their descent.

• 1:21:58Speaker 03

  They'll be like, so if, if a Chelsea player is from Ghana, but now lives in the, they'll say of Ghanaian descent and then he's.

• 1:22:06Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, they, they love doing that.

• 1:22:07Speaker 03

  They're a long journey in the.

• 1:22:09Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, they love doing that.

• 1:22:10Speaker 03

  The Premier League and then he's doing very well, yeah. He does a lot for his community as well. And then they'll be like, why are you telling us about this guy? Why are you explaining him?

• 1:22:17Trevor Noah?

  Can I tell you what I think it is?

• 1:22:18Speaker 03

  They did a lot in the World Cup now.

• 1:22:19Trevor Noah?

  Can I tell you what I think it is? Genuinely, honestly what I think it is. So I think sometimes

• 1:22:26Trevor Noah?

  how something is intended is not how it's received, right? And this is, this is life. And now I think our role, I mean, it's your choice and you talk about this in the book and you talk about it as yourself. In life, you can make a decision. You can choose to receive the thing as it was intended. You can choose to tell the, the, the, the, the deliverer of the message that they've done it wrong, et cetera, et cetera. I think what's often happening is people don't realize that they are, they're showing how they've perceived a group of people. And so they're like impressed by the journey that you've taken, which can be felt in a very condescending way. It can be, it can feel very condescending. So they're just like, oh, Eugene, I mean, to see you, I mean, you've traveled around the world and huh?

• 1:23:10Trevor Noah?

  This, I mean, this, it's just, look, look where you came from and you, wow.

• 1:23:15Speaker 03

  But he sounds like immigration.

• 1:23:19Trevor Noah?

  But, but you get what I'm saying. So I think, I think sometimes, sometimes the way they're saying it.

• 1:23:25Trevor Noah?

  I think they're saying it because they are surprised that that person is there. But they, they don't realize that they're revealing, their surprise is revealing something and not necessarily negative. It's just, it's just a feeling of something. But they don't have that surprise when a player worked themselves up. So I'll give you a simple example. I very seldom heard commentators say this about Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

• 1:23:48Speaker 03

  That's what I was about to say.

• 1:23:48Trevor Noah?

  And Zlatan Ibrahimovic had one of the hardest lives growing up. He's one of the greatest footballers we've ever seen. He's one of the most talented individuals, a true freak of nature.

• 1:23:58Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 1:23:58Trevor Noah?

  The man is like probably your height, like he's massive, but he's nimble. And he was quick and he was like, he would do like acrobatic moves that like only tiny players would do, everything. And when you read his story, you're like, man, you know, family from like the Soviet block and then they go to Sweden and he's an outsider and he's not accepted and all of these things. And he's like, he's not Swedish enough and he's not blonde and blue eyed and, and all these things, the way he speaks and all of this. But commentators very seldom, if you look at his career, very seldom spoke of him in that way. They very seldom spoke of him as a Cinderella story.

• 1:24:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:34Trevor Noah?

  They very seldom go like, man, from humble beginnings, Zlatan Ibrahimovic. No, they're just like, Zlatan, what can he not do? I mean, the guy, the most gifted player on the ball, the way he, the way he thinks about the game and his talent and he's just like, oh, and he.

• 1:24:47Speaker 03

  Phenomenal.

• 1:24:47Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then you will find generally a player who's had his, a similar journey to his, but they happen to be a person of color. Then people will focus on that.

• 1:24:56Speaker 03

  But I've also noticed in football, in soccer, that, um, it's easier for comment, maybe not easier, but commentators will gravitate towards explaining someone who's mixed race, trying to explain it to, to the, to the listeners than, than someone of mixed heritage.

• 1:25:12Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 1:25:12Speaker 03

  Because in Europe, there's a lot of that, there's mixed heritage. Czech, Czech Republican mom and a Belgian dad.

• 1:25:19Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:25:20Speaker 03

  No one will ever say with an Albanian mom and a Czech dad, he's come very far.

• 1:25:23Trevor Noah?

  You're not wrong.

• 1:25:24Speaker 03

  But if a, if a mixed race Belgian player plays, the commentator almost feels the need to explain who that guy is. His mom is from here, his dad is from there. How many, the amount of times I've heard this in the World Cup.

• 1:25:35Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but what I blame again, like I say, remember they all get their factoids, right? So the good, the good commentators at least, what they do is before a game, they will like try and get as much information as they can on every single player.

• 1:25:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:46Trevor Noah?

  They download everything really and they try and learn where they're from, what, because they wanna tell a story during a match. To them, what's interesting is that because that's abnormal. You, you're actually noticing a thing that I'm, that I'm saying. To them, it's abnormal. They're going, wow, and you know, a Nigerian, uh, father and a, uh, you know, it's like a, you know? And then they'll say it about Colin as well. They'd be like, they'd be like Colin Kaepernick, absolutely fantastic player. Uh, originally adopted, uh, you know, to, uh, really, really wonderful parents, grew up in Turlock and really, you know, grew up with one, one of very few, uh, uh, uh, children of Kalani's community. And oh, Colin Kaepernick shooting the ball is really great. But they,

• 1:26:27Trevor Noah?

  but they feel like that is what makes your story interesting. And so I genuinely, when I watch it, I go. I I don't think of it in in a malicious way. I go, it it shows us something. But I understand where they're like coming from.

• 1:26:42Speaker 03

  You know how? Whenever I hear commentators doing exactly what he just did, I'm I'm just glad it never happens in real life. Imagine every time you walk into a room, that commentator starts, you know, you'd be surprised about how we got here. Seeing as how we performed in high school.

• 1:26:57Trevor Noah?

  You walk in the office, Owen, here we are, accounting department of JB JP Morgan, and it's gonna be a big team meeting today. You've got everyone gathered. Brad Smith, there he is, really, really strong guy. I mean, he's just, the way he thinks about the numbers in this team. You know, Bill, he he's just, yeah, you know, he's really shown that he's a top thinker, he's a strategist, he is, he's got everything, his reports every single quarter.

• 1:27:21Speaker 03

  Then bring back a shameful background.

• 1:27:22Trevor Noah?

  Stronger. And, oh, look, look who we got here. Oh, one of his coworkers, oh, the one and only, oh, the man himself, Marcus, the beast. Oh, look, I mean, Marcus, look at this guy, his physique, the way he moves through the office. Have you seen how many files he can pick up at the same time? I mean, imagine this guy delivering a report to your office. What are you gonna tell him? What are you gonna?

• 1:27:47Speaker 03

  Well, interesting fact about about Marcus, Jim, is that his dad of Nigerian descent and his mom from Wisconsin.

• 1:27:53Trevor Noah?

  He's overcome a lot. He's just, I mean, his story, he's just overcome a lot.

• 1:28:01Speaker 00

  It's a real rags original.

• 1:28:05Trevor Noah?

  Let's let's get in, let's get into the the the part of your journey that like. That like really, I mean, there are two parts for me in football that that you.

• 1:28:12Speaker 03

  Professional, Colin.

• 1:28:13Trevor Noah?

  That you spoke about beautifully.

• 1:28:14Speaker 03

  Away from the mic.

• 1:28:15Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, no, no, he's been, press conferences, bro, he knows. Um.

• 1:28:20Trevor Noah?

  You know, because.

• 1:28:22Speaker 00

  I think the sound quality.

• 1:28:23Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I love it. The. The reason I want everyone to read your book is because.

• 1:28:30Trevor Noah?

  I think when anybody writes a book, if they write it well. It is both a beautiful introduction to a human being. But it's also a fascinating look into aspects of lives that we may never get to live, you know? And for me, it's the sport itself.

• 1:28:47Trevor Noah?

  You know, when when when. You're like in a, you're sharing a room with Cam Newton, and he's got like tons of arm under armor gear, you've got no gear, and he's just like, yo, just take it and have it. Like that that beautiful experience, you know, where he's like in this echelon that you don't even know that you're gonna get to at some point, but you do. You you know, when you talk about like meeting your idols and then becoming teammates with the working with them, like, there's so many parts of your journey. But I know we'd be remiss if we didn't get into like two of the biggest seminal moments. The first one being. You, the Super Bowl. Just like how you get into the team and how this like changes your life, you know, going to the mall, getting mob. Let's just talk about that shift.

• 1:29:30Trevor Noah?

  Because for your for your whole life, Colin Kaepernick sort of sticks out. You stick out. You you you don't look the same as your family, you don't look the same as most of your community. And then you you step into a sport and you you know, you go to a college and all of a sudden you blend in, you find yourself, you find parts of yourself you didn't know existed. It becomes this like beautiful new version of of what you get to exist in. And in a way. You're like anonymous again in a in a beautiful way, in a way that I think everyone should experience, like being both anonymous and special.

• 1:30:04Trevor Noah?

  When you're an athlete, you're part of that group, you're part of that. But there's a moment where it all switches for you, and I I I'm really fascinated as to like how you dealt with that and and and what that meant for you, like. Where was the moment where it shifted? And then what was it like going forward from that? Like when you when you're in the NFL?

• 1:30:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's. I love that question because.

• 1:30:28Speaker 00

  When I think about what I was doing.

• 1:30:31Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:32Speaker 00

  There actually wasn't a shift.

• 1:30:35Speaker 00

  The shift was the perception.

• 1:30:36Trevor Noah?

  I love this, man.

• 1:30:37Speaker 00

  Yo. Because.

• 1:30:41Speaker 00

  All of the training, all of the workouts. All of the the dedication, the film, working with teammates, staying after practice, showing up early.

• 1:30:52Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:53Speaker 00

  All of those things were happening. That ultimately led to the moment. That. When Alex Smith got hurt.

• 1:31:03Speaker 00

  I was ready to be a starter.

• 1:31:06Speaker 00

  And. I think oftentimes we look at those moments, it's like. Oh, this came out of nowhere.

• 1:31:13Trevor Noah?

  It's been off to you.

• 1:31:15Speaker 00

  All of a sudden, like, a star is born. It's like. No, at that point, I've been playing football for fifteen plus years. I had been, this was year two of me being in the NFL.

• 1:31:30Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:32Speaker 00

  I had been putting in work for eighteen plus months.

• 1:31:38Speaker 00

  With the San Francisco Forty Niners, just. Waiting for a crack in the door. To be able to get on the field. Because it's like, I know I can do better out there.

• 1:31:49Trevor Noah?

  And that position is tough because it is only. Like the, you know, like in soccer. You you might find a gap. Because you, let's say you're a right winger, your coach might be like, you know, I'm gonna play you as a striker for this game while plays a midfield, I'll play. Quarterback's quarterback.

• 1:32:04Speaker 03

  It is what it is.

• 1:32:05Speaker 00

  You get one.

• 1:32:06Trevor Noah?

  There's one, bro.

• 1:32:07Speaker 00

  And what made this, what made this situation unique too is. My first year in the NFL was Jim Harbaugh's first year with the Forty Niners.

• 1:32:18Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 1:32:20Speaker 00

  That first year, we went to the NFC Championship. Like Alex was playing well, our team was good.

• 1:32:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:27Speaker 00

  The second year, Alex gets hurt. I step into this role. And the first game, he gets hurt in the middle of the game. I jump in, go, we were behind, we end up tying the game. Leaves questions for people of like, oh, some some good moments in here, but like.

• 1:32:46Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:47Speaker 00

  We haven't seen you play a full game.

• 1:32:48Speaker 03

  It wasn't a win.

• 1:32:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, it wasn't a win. We haven't seen you play a full game.

• 1:32:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:53Speaker 00

  Um.

• 1:32:55Speaker 00

  And. Going into the next week, we have a Monday night football game against the Bears. And the question is like, is Alex gonna play or not? Will he be back from concussion protocol?

• 1:33:08Speaker 00

  During the whole week, we're sharing reps, we're going back and forth. It's not until Sunday night that I'm told I'm gonna be starting.

• 1:33:18Speaker 00

  So, less than twenty four hours before game time.

• 1:33:23Speaker 00

  And.

• 1:33:26Speaker 00

  It didn't feel that different to me outside of the fact of. Oh, this is my moment. Like, this is my shot.

• 1:33:35Speaker 00

  But all of the work and preparation had already been happening.

• 1:33:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:40Speaker 00

  And then. Go out, play well, we win the game, um, we have a great game out there.

• 1:33:48Speaker 00

  And then the questions start coming up.

• 1:33:52Speaker 00

  Oh, so. Who should be starting now?

• 1:33:57Speaker 00

  And those questions came very quickly.

• 1:34:00Speaker 00

  And the following week, we're getting ready to play the Saints.

• 1:34:06Speaker 00

  And me and Alex are splitting reps throughout the week. And Coach Harbaugh had not made a decision over who's gonna be starting.

• 1:34:12Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 1:34:14Speaker 00

  So it's still everything in limbo. Finally makes the call, I'm gonna start the next game. He's gonna give Alex another week to rest, to recover. Go out, play well, we win against the Saints, we beat, uh, Drew Brees and the Saints in the Superdome. Which is. That is not a small task, um.

• 1:34:35Trevor Noah?

  It's like a rainy night at Stoke.

• 1:34:38Speaker 03

  The odds are against you.

• 1:34:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, it's just.

• 1:34:41Speaker 00

  And that, like, very talented team, go out, we play well, we win.

• 1:34:47Speaker 00

  And then it becomes. Oh, wait. Like, you can't go back now. Like, you can't, you can't switch quarterbacks at this point.

• 1:34:56Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:58Speaker 00

  And that became. The continuation of, oh, okay, now now you're our starter, until you show us you're not.

• 1:35:06Trevor Noah?

  Wow.

• 1:35:08Speaker 00

  And. When I think about those moments.

• 1:35:14Speaker 00

  From the time I was young. I remember my dad telling me.

• 1:35:21Speaker 00

  Prepare as if you are the starter at all times.

• 1:35:26Speaker 00

  And what becomes most interesting to me about that.

• 1:35:31Speaker 00

  When I started playing at eight years old. When I went to middle school football, when I went to high school, when I went to college, when I went to NFL, at every level.

• 1:35:42Speaker 00

  I was always put in a backup position.

• 1:35:46Speaker 00

  Every level. So I always had to work my way into a starting position. And I think that's part of the reason I love sports. Is because.

• 1:35:59Speaker 00

  You can say I'm not better initially. And try to put me in a position that I shouldn't be in.

• 1:36:05Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:08Speaker 00

  But it's very hard to deny it over time. Players see it, coaches see it, parents see it, everybody begins to see it. And that was the part that, in San Francisco.

• 1:36:21Speaker 00

  The spring before I started.

• 1:36:23Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:25Speaker 00

  I was.

• 1:36:28Speaker 00

  Randy Moss had joined our team. Um, my childhood hero.

• 1:36:32Trevor Noah?

  It's crazy.

• 1:36:33Speaker 00

  It. It's surreal.

• 1:36:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, serendipity.

• 1:36:37Speaker 00

  And during OTAs, which is, uh, offseason training activities, so that happens in the spring. During that springtime. Randy walks over to me after one of the practices, he's like.

• 1:36:53Speaker 00

  Hey, if we're gonna go to Super Bowl. You're gonna have to take us there.

• 1:36:59Speaker 03

  This is your hero telling you this.

• 1:37:00Trevor Noah?

  This is crazy.

• 1:37:01Speaker 00

  Randy Moss.

• 1:37:04Trevor Noah?

  I'm like.

• 1:37:09Speaker 00

  There's a moment of like Randy Moss is telling me this. I have not started a game for the 49ers.

• 1:37:18Speaker 00

  But he's just seen me in practice and is like, you're the person who's gonna have to take us there.

• 1:37:25Trevor Noah?

  How did that feel?

• 1:37:27Speaker 00

  Oh, I mean, at this point, Randy Moss had played with Randall Cunningham, Dante Pepper, Tom Brady, Brett Favre. Like, he played with stars.

• 1:37:43Speaker 00

  And to have him say that is like, oh, you've played with all time greats.

• 1:37:48Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:51Speaker 00

  The confidence that comes out of that.

• 1:37:53Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:53Speaker 00

  It's like, oh, okay. I, I have to prove you right. I have to. And that year, we go on, we go to the Super Bowl.

• 1:38:06Trevor Noah?

  No way.

• 1:38:07Speaker 00

  Go to the Super Bowl that year. My 10th start of my career was in the Super Bowl.

• 1:38:17Speaker 00

  It

• 1:38:18Trevor Noah?

  It's amazing.

• 1:38:19Speaker 00

  But it was such a moment of,

• 1:38:23Speaker 00

  I'm a backup quarterback.

• 1:38:26Speaker 00

  An injury happens. You come in and play.

• 1:38:29Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:30Speaker 00

  And you have to show that you can do it. And then everything else from there is just a byproduct of all of the work that you have already done.

• 1:38:40Trevor Noah?

  Culmination.

• 1:38:40Speaker 00

  And you have to continue to do it.

• 1:38:43Trevor Noah?

  It was a crazy game, a close game. It was one of those games that you hear about outside of sport, even when you're not in the sports. It was just one of, wasn't like, didn't you throw for like record yardage as well in that game? It was, what, what was it? I feel like I remember like your numbers. I just remember them at the time. People kept on saying, we've just never seen, like a quarterback throwing these numbers in a Super Bowl. It was wild.

• 1:39:07Speaker 00

  300 plus yards in the air, another, I think 60 plus on the ground.

• 1:39:11Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, it was.

• 1:39:12Speaker 00

  It, offensive stat wise, great game.

• 1:39:16Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:17Speaker 00

  What I'll also say, for us as a team, going back and looking at the film, we didn't play well.

• 1:39:25Trevor Noah?

  No way.

• 1:39:26Speaker 00

  Like, it was not a good game for us offensively. Even though, I mean, we put up, I believe it was 31 points um, in the Super Bowl.

• 1:39:39Speaker 00

  For us walking out of there, we're like, we should have put up 40 plus points. We played bad, basically the whole first half of that game. Like little mistakes.

• 1:39:52Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:39:52Speaker 00

  Here and there, they just piled up, had turnovers. Um, we, coming out of halftime, uh, we kick off, they return it for a touchdown. And it was like, this is so abnormal for us. And second half, we turned around. We, we come back in the fourth quarter, we get within five yards. Um, of the go ahead touchdown. And we come up short.

• 1:40:27Speaker 00

  And it's like,

• 1:40:31Speaker 00

  that is obviously not the way you want to end it. What we'll say is it does put you in a space that being so close, like you, you know what it feels like to be there.

• 1:40:43Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:44Speaker 00

  It's like, oh, we have to go harder to get over this hump.

• 1:40:49Speaker 00

  And you start, for me, I started preparing as soon as we got back. It was like, I, I can't live with that feeling.

• 1:40:57Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, almost.

• 1:40:58Speaker 00

  Like the only, the only thing I know how to do in relation to that is go back and get to work to try to make sure that doesn't happen again.

• 1:41:06Trevor Noah?

  Don't press anything. We've got more. What now? After this?

• 1:41:12Speaker 00

  We're not doing that. Like, we're not selling people out.

• 1:41:16Speaker 00

  And you're also not gonna take our careers away while we're fighting for black people and then be like, be the face of the thing that says we support black people.

• 1:41:23Trevor Noah?

  Whilst not actually supporting. Yeah, that's interesting.

• 1:41:26Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:41:28Trevor Noah?

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• 1:42:14Trevor Noah?

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• 1:42:58Trevor Noah?

  That's R U L A dot com to find a therapist the easy way.

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• 1:44:02Trevor Noah?

  So you don't even have time to process

• 1:44:06Trevor Noah?

  the, the, the moment, you don't have time to process, because it's the joy of reaching the Super Bowl. It's the historic occasion, it's your 10th start, it's a, it's a thing that wasn't promised to you, but you were part of creating for yourself, being chosen and then stepping up to the choice. All these, you don't even have time, you just gotta get back in and then start, start working again. All of this is happening. You're in the NFL, you, you, you're playing football. And then, oh man,

• 1:44:34Trevor Noah?

  like all of a sudden, like, like cat in an alley again, another thing comes and tackles your life. And it's protests, it's America going through a period where it felt like every single week we were seeing police shootings of unarmed people, black men, oftentimes, most times actually. And then like the videos would contradict what the police were saying. Every single time would be a statement, the person did this, and then the video would come and be like, but they didn't do that. And then you saw trust in society fraying and all of this was happening. And amidst of that,

• 1:45:08Trevor Noah?

  and you, you really lay this out beautifully in the book. It's like, you, you have this moment where

• 1:45:16Trevor Noah?

  you are,

• 1:45:18Trevor Noah?

  you're basically processing everything that's going on.

• 1:45:22Trevor Noah?

  And you make a decision. And I, I honestly, I hope that people who think they don't like you, and I'll say think because they don't know you, but people who think they don't like you, I hope, if they only read one part of the book, I hope they read that part, because I think it's shaped so much of how people think your thought, thought process worked. But it really showed me that there was no quote unquote, right way to do it. Because everything in, every part of your story was what someone told you to do the other way around, and then they shifted the goalpost. You shouldn't protest like that, you shouldn't have done it like, well, why didn't you do that? Why did you do that? Why, why didn't you? Take, take us through that moment, please, like, you, you know, because let's, let's start at the beginning, the very first time that you decided to not stand for the anthem.

• 1:46:06Trevor Noah?

  What was going through your head and, and where was this and how did it happen?

• 1:46:11Speaker 00

  So, going back to the moment of first sitting during the anthem.

• 1:46:17Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:17Speaker 00

  In, it's August 14th, 2016. Uh, preseason game. And

• 1:46:26Speaker 00

  to your point, this, this moment of reflection, I think important context leading into that is for the years prior, I've been educating myself on black history, systemic oppression. We're trying to get a better understanding of why systems are moving and operating the way they are.

• 1:46:51Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:51Speaker 00

  And what that has looked like historically. In the midst of doing that, um,

• 1:46:58Speaker 00

  I get injured in the 2015 season. Three separate injuries.

• 1:47:04Speaker 00

  Tore my labrum, tore my UCL in my thumb, tore my meniscus, had to get surgery on all three.

• 1:47:10Trevor Noah?

  Before you move on, actually, with the story, let's, let's just rewind on this because I, I, this, this part of the book was really revealing to me. And it made me have a deeper level of empathy and respect for athletes. You made me realize in a really crystal clear way that we as fans take for granted that the athlete is not necessarily completely aligned with the sports organization that they work for. No, because I, I know we're gonna go down that story and we'll come back to it, but I, you just reminded me of something you talked about in the book about those injuries.

• 1:47:43Trevor Noah?

  When you were getting looked at by the team, they didn't tell you that you had a torn meniscus. They didn't tell you that you had a, a torn.

• 1:47:51Speaker 00

  UCL.

• 1:47:52Trevor Noah?

  UCL. They didn't tell you that, they didn't use those words. They, they were, was a contusion is what they said.

• 1:47:57Speaker 00

  Contusion, which is essentially a bruise.

• 1:47:59Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:00Speaker 03

  The minimization of.

• 1:48:00Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, it, what you realize is the team doctors are paid by the team.

• 1:48:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, they're not your doctor.

• 1:48:10Speaker 00

  That they're not your personal doctor.

• 1:48:12Speaker 03

  So they're not there for your well-being?

• 1:48:15Speaker 00

  Depends who you ask, but in practice, I just look at things from an incentive structure.

• 1:48:20Trevor Noah?

  Yep.

• 1:48:21Speaker 03

  Makes no sense.

• 1:48:22Trevor Noah?

  Show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome.

• 1:48:24Speaker 00

  Their incentive is to do what the team wants them to do and position things the way the team wants them to position it. So for me, I first injured my shoulder. They looked at, told me it was contusion.

• 1:48:39Speaker 00

  I was like, all right, so I just have to deal with the pain.

• 1:48:45Speaker 00

  Keep playing, keep playing. Uh, it was a game or two later. Get tackled, uh, with the football in my hand like this.

• 1:48:53Trevor Noah?

  Ooh.

• 1:48:54Speaker 00

  My thumb splits.

• 1:48:55Speaker 03

  Stretch it out your thumb?

• 1:48:55Speaker 00

  Ooh. Tear my ligament here. And they look at it like, uh, it's, it's contusion. Like, you just have to be able to deal with the pain.

• 1:49:07Speaker 00

  And through this process, every snap I take in practice, excruciatingly painful, but

• 1:49:19Speaker 00

  I'll say, you have to get into the mind of a football player as well.

• 1:49:26Speaker 00

  There is a difference between being hurt and being injured in a football player's mind. Being hurt is like, this may be extremely uncomfortable, but I'm not injured where I can't play.

• 1:49:37Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 1:49:38Speaker 00

  Like, part of the, the race within, uh, NFL season or football season is what team can stay healthiest throughout the season.

• 1:49:48Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:49Speaker 00

  So when they tell me like, oh, it's just a pain thing, you have to deal with the pain.

• 1:49:57Speaker 00

  For me is, oh, I can do that.

• 1:50:00Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 1:50:01Speaker 00

  If that, if that's what I have to do, then I'll do that and I'll navigate it because I need us to win.

• 1:50:07Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 1:50:08Speaker 00

  Like, the goal is winning. Pain just becomes a, an obstacle in that. Uh, next game or a couple of games later, get tackled, hit my knee. Uh, knee swells up, contusion. And the only reason I actually found the, found out that these weren't contusions is because my now-wife, Nessa.

• 1:50:32Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:33Speaker 00

  Is flying in from New York. And she comes to visit me and getting ready to lay down for the night. I'm laying on my back and I didn't know at the time, but I had a tear in my labrum on the front of my shoulder. So if I just laid there like this, my humerus was putting pressure on the tear. So I was like, I can't sleep like this. Like, this is terrible. So I stacked.

• 1:51:01Speaker 03

  Hearing about it.

• 1:51:02Speaker 00

  I stacked pillows all around my arm so I could sleep on my back with my arm up. I was like, all right, this doesn't feel bad. So I'm doing that and she looks at me and she's like, what the fuck are you doing?

• 1:51:19Speaker 00

  Like, what is, what is that?

• 1:51:21Speaker 03

  You're like, isn't that how you sleep in New York? The new thing.

• 1:51:26Speaker 00

  Uh, it, like, well, it feels better if I sleep like this. She's like, you need to go to the doctor and get an MRI. Like, what are you talking about? No, they just told me it's contusion. Like, I'll be all right, I'll be all right.

• 1:51:41Speaker 00

  Go to the doctor. So I go to the doctor, get an MRI.

• 1:51:49Speaker 00

  Comes back and they're like, oh, it's just, you know, it's just a little tear. Like, just a little tear, like, be able to deal with it. No worries. Can check it out at the end of the season.

• 1:51:58Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:00Speaker 00

  At this point, I'm like, well, you told me it was a contusion.

• 1:52:04Trevor Noah?

  And now it's a tear.

• 1:52:05Speaker 00

  Now you're telling me it's a tear.

• 1:52:08Speaker 00

  I'm gonna get a second opinion that's not affiliated with the NFL. So I sent it off to a, a doctor in Vail, Colorado, Peter Millett, checked it out. And he was like, you have a significant tear. Like, you need to get surgery.

• 1:52:26Speaker 00

  I was like, well, they told me this, like, no, you need surgery or you may tear the whole thing. So I'm like, all right.

• 1:52:37Speaker 00

  So

• 1:52:39Speaker 00

  I, at this point, I'm like, I don't even know how to approach this. Like, hey, I have to go get surgery. It's what the doctor is telling me and I don't trust y'all.

• 1:52:50Speaker 00

  So I go back and I confront our, our head trainer at the time. And I, this is one of these things that in saying this, I know there's gonna be a reaction that people are gonna be like, that didn't happen because that's too wild.

• 1:53:11Speaker 00

  Trainer goes,

• 1:53:13Speaker 00

  oh, well, I, I told you it was a little tear because of my southern accent.

• 1:53:17Trevor Noah?

  No.

• 1:53:19Speaker 00

  You know, it's just, it's just a little tear.

• 1:53:21Speaker 03

  Little tear.

• 1:53:21Speaker 00

  And I.

• 1:53:22Trevor Noah?

  Why don't you, why don't you go ahead and play more games, Colin? Why don't you go ahead and ignore that over there?

• 1:53:27Speaker 03

  It was blamed on the accent.

• 1:53:29Trevor Noah?

  He blamed it on his own accent? Yo, that's, that's wild.

• 1:53:32Speaker 00

  When I tell you the,

• 1:53:35Speaker 00

  the level of rage that I had. I was like, I need to get out of this office because thi- this is not good.

• 1:53:45Trevor Noah?

  This is also a sport where if I understand, y- your, your, your contract isn't guaranteed, right? Like, it doesn't work like, so in the, in the, in like, for instance, in, uh, Premier League football, if you get injured, you, you still get paid.

• 1:53:57Speaker 03

  They pay you.

• 1:53:57Trevor Noah?

  Because they go, you got injured doing the thing that we paid you to do.

• 1:54:00Speaker 03

  On duty.

• 1:54:01Trevor Noah?

  One hundred percent on duty, right? And then I think basketball is the same. In football, it's not like that, right?

• 1:54:06Speaker 00

  There have been a couple of people that have been able to get guaranteed contracts.

• 1:54:09Trevor Noah?

  A couple? Yo, come on.

• 1:54:11Speaker 00

  There's two that I can think of.

• 1:54:12Speaker 03

  The fact that it's even called a guaranteed.

• 1:54:14Trevor Noah?

  This is crazy.

• 1:54:15Speaker 00

  But otherwise, like, your contract isn't guaranteed. They could cut you tomorrow and be like, hey, we signed you to a hundred million dollar deal or a three hundred million dollar deal.

• 1:54:28Speaker 00

  And actually, we may not like that tomorrow and we'll cut you and we don't.

• 1:54:32Trevor Noah?

  Really?

• 1:54:33Speaker 00

  And we don't owe you that money.

• 1:54:34Trevor Noah?

  Oh, I didn't know it was that level. But then, but then it's not a deal.

• 1:54:38Speaker 00

  But.

• 1:54:39Speaker 03

  It is.

• 1:54:39Trevor Noah?

  It's not a deal.

• 1:54:40Speaker 03

  Deal with it.

• 1:54:43Trevor Noah?

  We need to make sure you never get your own NFL team, you team. You'd be a menace. This guy, deal with it. Oh, my goodness.

• 1:54:50Speaker 03

  NFL contract sounds like radio contract in South Africa.

• 1:54:53Trevor Noah?

  This is like, hey, man, so, uh, what are you gonna be doing next week?

• 1:54:56Speaker 00

  What do you mean?

• 1:54:56Trevor Noah?

  Well, you're not gonna be here.

• 1:54:57Speaker 00

  What do you mean?

• 1:54:58Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:55:00Trevor Noah?

  So, okay, no, because I wanted to paint some, some, some context for the people there. So you, you're dealing with all these injuries. Now we've, now we, we, you know, we flash forward now. Now this is you, you're injured, you're in that season.

• 1:55:11Speaker 00

  So injured, as I go up to Vail to get surgery.

• 1:55:15Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:16Speaker 00

  I also asked them, hey, can, can you check out these, these other injuries or other areas that they told me were contusions?

• 1:55:21Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 1:55:22Speaker 00

  Like, yeah, you, you tore the ligament in your thumb, which is, that's my throwing hand.

• 1:55:28Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 1:55:29Speaker 00

  It's like, navigate that.

• 1:55:33Speaker 00

  Did a, a scan of my knee, like, tore your meniscus in your knee, had to clean that up. So at one point, I'm sitting in Vail. I have a sling on my left arm, I have a cast on my right hand, and I have a sleeve on my left knee. I was like, this, this is absurd. Like, I just need to get healthy, need to get back on field. But what it also did, this was the first time in my career that I actually had to be still.

• 1:56:02Trevor Noah?

  Wow.

• 1:56:04Speaker 00

  There, there was never another moment that was like, you can't go train. You can't go practice. You can't go, and I'm in Vail. I still have to go do my, my rehab. But the rest of the day, I'm sitting there, I'm like, all right, what, what do I do?

• 1:56:21Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:22Speaker 00

  And continuing to read, continuing to research as part of this. And it's months and months long as far as rehab. And during this time period, Mario Woods is killed in San Francisco.

• 1:56:42Speaker 00

  And

• 1:56:44Speaker 00

  at that point in time, I was visiting my family at home. I'm sitting here watching the video. I was like, they, they just executed this man in the middle of the street. And the video looks like a firing squad. Like, the police have him surrounded.

• 1:57:04Speaker 00

  They said he had a knife and was threatening them.

• 1:57:09Speaker 00

  He, there was no scenario where he was any threat to them. And they kill him. You just, you hear all of the officers' shots just ringing out.

• 1:57:24Speaker 00

  Sitting here, I'm like, this, this is on the back of Mike Brown, Tamir Rice, Freddie Gray, like we're

• 1:57:38Trevor Noah?

  And those are just the high-profile ones.

• 1:57:40Speaker 00

  Those are just the high-profile ones, back of Sandra Bland, like we're, we've seen this so frequently at this point, and it's like, what, what am I gonna do? What can I do about this? And that actually became the moment that I call my wife Nessa, and I'm like, seeing this, like, we have to do something, and we start thinking about what we can do. And that's actually where the birth of Know Your Rights Camp came from.

• 1:58:12Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:58:13Speaker 00

  Is December of 2015, and as we're building Know Your Rights Camp, we're thinking about how do we get our, our community home safe? How do we protect them? As we were doing that, there was also a realization of what a low bar to set, to be like, hey, let's make sure our community doesn't die.

• 1:58:37Trevor Noah?

  Hmm.

• 1:58:39Speaker 00

  That then made us think about, what other programs should we be building around this to help them thrive? And I think that ties into some of the perception you were talking about.

• 1:58:49Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:49Speaker 00

  Even in relation to how we are described when it comes to journeys or where we're coming from, that's like, we've set the bar down here for you so low that when you cross that bar, it's like, success, this is amazing.

• 1:59:05Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:06Speaker 00

  It's like, no, the bar should be here, it's just been low for so long that we've accepted those things.

• 1:59:13Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 1:59:14Speaker 00

  And so we, we're doing that work, and as we're doing that, Alton Sterling is killed

• 1:59:21Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:22Speaker 00

  in Baton Rouge, Philando Castile is killed in Minnesota. And it just becomes this culminating moment where everybody's looking around saying, we need to do something, we have to do something. And the question becomes, well, then what are we going to do?

• 1:59:42Trevor Noah?

  And who's going to do it?

• 1:59:43Speaker 00

  And who's going to do it? And for me, the first time I protested, I was saying is like, I don't believe in the propaganda of what you are selling me. I believe we deserve better, and in that belief led me to protest. And when it became public, wasn't until three games later, or till the third game.

• 2:00:13Trevor Noah?

  That's, that's what I mean by the significance and the detail is so important in this. One of the biggest criticisms that you experienced, and I think many people experienced, is that they did not protest in the correct manner. This is oftentimes the criticism. People will say, they'll say, you know, Colin, I'm, I'm all for, we live in a country with First Amendment freedoms, you can speak your mind, I'm, I'm all, but do it in the right manner. Do it in a peaceful ma, do it in a way that isn't disruptive, do it in a way that, but just literally, so people can hear from you. You, cause you write this, you write this.

• 2:00:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:00:48Trevor Noah?

  Literally, your protest at the time was you sitting where?

• 2:00:53Speaker 00

  Sitting on a, a Gatorade cooler.

• 2:00:55Trevor Noah?

  That was it. While the anthem's playing, the man is sitting on a Gatorade cooler. He's not interrupting an anthem.

• 2:01:02Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:01:03Trevor Noah?

  He's not cursing people out, he's not fighting with people, not, no, no, no, he's just sitting quietly. Who's too late, as we'd say.

• 2:01:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:01:10Trevor Noah?

  He's there, he's just like, he, he is, he's, he's quieted himself.

• 2:01:13Speaker 00

  He's quiet, yeah.

• 2:01:14Trevor Noah?

  Is the way we put it. It means like you are to yourself and you've quieted yourself, you know what I mean?

• 2:01:19Speaker 00

  And you bother no one.

• 2:01:20Trevor Noah?

  Three games, you're doing that, it's not a thing. Then something happens.

• 2:01:25Speaker 00

  The, then after the third game, finished playing, this is the first time I actually stepped back on the field, coming back from my injuries, and cleaned up in the locker room, our PR team comes over and they're like, hey, uh, we just got a request from Steve Wyche that he wants to talk to you after your press conference about why you weren't standing during the Star Spangled Banner. And I was like, oh, okay. And I, I could tell they were a little nervous.

• 2:02:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:02Speaker 00

  And

• 2:02:02Trevor Noah?

  It was a high pitched request? Hey, hey, um, um,

• 2:02:08Trevor Noah?

  um, um, look, um, we just

• 2:02:21Speaker 00

  The part, the part that definitely comes through is the, the hesitation, the stutter in it.

• 2:02:27Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:02:28Speaker 00

  Like the and you could tell there's something more there. I'm like, all right. So I go do the press conference, everything's fine. Talked to Steve Wyche after, um, talked to him on the side. He's like, hey, I, I want to ask you, like, why weren't you staying for, for the Star Spangled Banner? And give him full explanation why I'm doing it, systemic oppression, what black people have faced, what we're seeing right now in police killing black people.

• 2:03:06Speaker 00

  And I remember he was like, you know what comes with this, right?

• 2:03:16Trevor Noah?

  Hmm, damn.

• 2:03:19Speaker 00

  And Steve Wyche's a black man.

• 2:03:21Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 2:03:22Speaker 00

  He's like, like you, you know the implications. And I was like, in that moment, yeah. Because at that point, I had already been studied. History tells us this.

• 2:03:38Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:39Speaker 00

  Whether it's Muhammad Ali, whether it's Kurt Flood, whether it's Tommy Smith and John Carlos, whether it's Mahmoud, uh, whether it's Kareem, like we, we have seen this.

• 2:03:52Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, Owens, yeah, you name it, yeah.

• 2:03:54Speaker 00

  Owen, like, it's not a new playbook.

• 2:03:58Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 2:03:59Speaker 00

  And I said that to him in that interview, like, I know this could cost me my job. I know it could cost me endorsements. At the same time, I think for us collectively, we have to look at, are the fear tactics and consequences that are potentially placed in front of us going to be the thing that stops us from doing what is right and what we know is right?

• 2:04:28Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, it's safety and incentive.

• 2:04:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, and that, to me, that becomes the lever that is, is held over us.

• 2:04:37Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:37Speaker 00

  Is because coming out of slavery, because coming out of Jim Crow, we have been put in a, a socioeconomic position.

• 2:04:49Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:50Speaker 00

  It's like, yeah, there, there is more poverty. Well, you want to get more money, right? Like, you want to live a better life. What, what comes with those dollars is the expectation of that professionalism.

• 2:05:06Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:05:07Speaker 00

  Like, you, you look the way we want you to look, you act the way we want you to act. You assimilate to the culture we want you to assimilate to. And to your point, anytime you stray off of that.

• 2:05:18Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 2:05:18Speaker 00

  It's like, well, we need to cut that thread and make sure that everything else stays intact. And the reality is the status quo of what we are living in isn't acceptable one.

• 2:05:34Trevor Noah?

  The bar's too low.

• 2:05:36Speaker 00

  The bar, not only is the bar too low, it's quite literally killing us. And that's, not only is it killing us, it has been made legal to do so.

• 2:05:49Trevor Noah?

  Hmm, in full view.

• 2:05:51Speaker 00

  In full, in full view, and also

• 2:05:58Speaker 00

  It puts us collectively in a position that is, well, do you just accept it?

• 2:06:07Speaker 00

  Do you hope it just misses you? Like, it doesn't knock on your door?

• 2:06:11Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:11Speaker 00

  And you just, alright, let me see if I just do the right things, I can avoid it. And ultimately, what we see, it may not knock on your door, it might knock on your neighbors, or the rest of your family, like, in some way or fashion, ultimately, it is going to come back to you.

• 2:06:33Trevor Noah?

  The thing that people also don't realize, um, I know Barack Obama quoted Nelson Mandela on saying this, but Mandela said something that truly was one of the most powerful things, and it's stuck with me in my brain forever.

• 2:06:47Trevor Noah?

  These systems, what a lot of people don't realize is, they imprison everyone. And he had the famous line, he said, he learned in his time in Robben Island, you need to break these systems up because you need to free not only the prisoner, but also the guard. And that's, I think that's what made Nelson Mandela unique, is that like, he had a compassion for his captors that people didn't expect any human being to have, he made friends with them. We always talk about the stories, he befriended, they had to rotate his prison guards so that they would not become...

• 2:07:20Speaker 03

  Friendly with him.

• 2:07:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but also sympathetic to his cause, because when they spoke to him as a person, they were like, wait, this guy seems reasonable, this guy seems, actually, these are good points about the country. Because this is one of the biggest misconceptions I think people have. We always assume that we are all experiencing the same reality at the same time.

• 2:07:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:39Trevor Noah?

  And so we judge other people for not coming to the same conclusions that we've come to, because we're like, but we're both seeing the same reality. You get what I'm saying? But, but what's interesting about it is, when you realize you're not seeing the same reality,

• 2:07:55Trevor Noah?

  when you realize a huge majority of white South Africans did not know what the black experience was at all.

• 2:08:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it's not that they didn't care.

• 2:08:02Trevor Noah?

  No, they didn't.

• 2:08:03Speaker 03

  They just didn't know.

• 2:08:03Trevor Noah?

  And how could they know? The news didn't show it to them. When you read about, uh, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., most of his campaign was him trying to get the images and the videos to the white people in America, because he believed, he's like, yo, if they see what's happening, they will then have a different understanding. And I think, you, it's funny, you were almost, I know this is crazy to say, but it's, you almost like ahead of the curve. Because when Black Lives Matter really explodes, when the pandemic hits, when people now no longer have the social or the socioeconomic constraint, you saw how they responded, and the distraction, black and white were marching in the streets. People collectively all over the world were saying, hey, man, something just needs to change.

• 2:08:48Trevor Noah?

  Imagine that, for a movement to move from the United States to Paris, to Spain, to... It consciously be like people being, yeah, yeah, yeah, me too, I'm gonna join in, it was like, no, actually, we didn't know that this was something that everyone was experiencing, and actually, what are we doing here?

• 2:09:06Speaker 03

  And it needs to be done.

• 2:09:07Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but the timing of when you were doing it, made it so that you didn't have the cover of the collective.

• 2:09:13Speaker 03

  That's a good one.

• 2:09:14Trevor Noah?

  You know, so you were the one who sticks your head up first. So you, you, you get, you're in this world, you know, you, um, you go, you kneel with your teammates, it becomes, you're like, let's do it respectfully to be together, you kneel, that's still not accepted, everything is not accepted, everything. We go through this world, and I'll speed through what now people know, and I wanna get to the other side. Let people read the book, but I wanna get to the other side that people don't know. For a lot of people, it felt like Colin disappeared. For a lot of people, it was like, if the people don't know your Know Your Rights campaign, if they don't know you in your community gatherings, for many of them, it was Colin disappeared. Where's Colin? There were moments where we saw you, you know, throwing the ball and saying, I'm ready to play in the NFL,

• 2:09:59Trevor Noah?

  but the NFL wouldn't have this. So, just, just, you know, help us understand, like, what happened in that end part? You know, they, they shut you out, you took them to court. I don't know what you can or cannot speak about, but what actually happened and how did that conclude?

• 2:10:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, so, coming on the back of the protest, the NFL blackballed me. They couldn't get a job with any team, um, we did a full breakdown of this in relation to, was this, going back to facts and stats?

• 2:10:32Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:33Speaker 00

  Historically, someone of my caliber that has performed the way I have, has there ever been a scenario where they haven't found a job after a season? Not a single one. So, the data supports that.

• 2:10:48Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 2:10:49Speaker 00

  The reality also supports it in relation to, uh, went to go visit the Seahawks, everything they're asking is about the politics.

• 2:10:58Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 2:10:59Speaker 00

  The following year, um, they called me to come in for a workout, they've already said, like, we know you're a starter. Call me to come in for a workout before I get there, um, or before I'm supposed to get on the flight. Call my agent, and I'm like, well, before he comes, will he commit to not taking a knee?

• 2:11:19Speaker 00

  And I wouldn't commit to that, cancel my flight, workout never happened. So, there are plenty of instances of this happening. And also just to be explicitly clear with it, no team has ever offered me a job, at any position. Not as a starter, not as a backup, not as a practice squad player.

• 2:11:43Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 2:11:44Speaker 00

  No position whatsoever. So going from a starter to nothing.

• 2:11:48Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:51Speaker 00

  On the back of that, uh, filed a grievance against the NFL.

• 2:11:57Speaker 00

  That is laid out by the CBA process, um, which is the collective bargaining agreement between the Players Union and NFL, so you have to go through that process.

• 2:12:06Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:08Speaker 00

  Part of the terms of that process, which I will say candidly, I did not know going in, is everything is confidential.

• 2:12:16Trevor Noah?

  Rights.

• 2:12:16Speaker 00

  Which I thought there would be opportunity to expose all of that.

• 2:12:22Speaker 00

  Had a settlement with them, um, I would say, it is also interesting when we talk about systems and incentives.

• 2:12:31Speaker 00

  You have to go through a special arbitrator as part of that process. That is agreed upon between the NFL and the NFLPA.

• 2:12:41Speaker 00

  At any point, they can be fired by either one of those.

• 2:12:45Speaker 03

  Mid-arbitration.

• 2:12:48Speaker 00

  I believe mid-arbitration, but also, um, from my understanding in that agreement, at any point, they'd be like, we don't like you.

• 2:12:56Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:57Speaker 00

  So going back to incentives, um, that became a factor. Also during that time period, because we had looked at, can we take this to the Supreme Court?

• 2:13:07Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 2:13:08Speaker 00

  Factor. We also saw, uh, the Supreme Court flip under Trump.

• 2:13:14Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:13:15Speaker 00

  Kavanaugh gets elected, um, Gorsuch gets, uh, put on the Supreme Court. Both of them backed by NFL teams and organizations.

• 2:13:29Speaker 00

  One by John Elway and the Denver Broncos, the other by Michael Bidwell in Arizona. Which then made that not a viable path. Um, so ultimately got to a settlement as part of that.

• 2:13:43Speaker 00

  As part of it, I was still able to seek employment.

• 2:13:46Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:47Speaker 00

  I can obviously still say what I want about the NFL.

• 2:13:49Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 2:13:52Speaker 00

  But to the point of, why, why haven't you spoken and those things?

• 2:14:01Speaker 00

  During the time period, I was protesting, it's fascinating to be able to see perspective. Over and over again, I heard, oh, well, you're talking so much, like, why is he always on TV? Why does he always have press conferences? Why is he always?

• 2:14:21Speaker 00

  Which, all of those were mandated by the NFL. As a starting quarterback, like, you have to be available for the media three times a week.

• 2:14:31Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, that's your obligation.

• 2:14:32Speaker 00

  That's your obligation as part of your job. So, I can't control what they're asking me, but what I can control is, I'm gonna be honest when you do ask me.

• 2:14:41Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 2:14:42Speaker 00

  So, the volume of that was significant during that 2016 season. Everybody was coming and asking.

• 2:14:48Trevor Noah?

  It becomes fuel in the flame.

• 2:14:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's like, oh, we'll get clicks out of this, like, we like this, it's good momentum.

• 2:14:58Speaker 00

  On the back end of that, there was also a realization of...

• 2:15:03Speaker 00

  Within media, within society and culture, I had a sense that it was like, well, you are the leader within this.

• 2:15:14Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:15Speaker 00

  And I was like, that, to me, that's not an appropriate position of like, the leader. It's like, there's people doing work across the country. That's extremely valuable, and that needs to be elevated.

• 2:15:31Trevor Noah?

  Hmm.

• 2:15:32Speaker 00

  And part of that is, and this is some of the learnings that we take from Ella Baker. It's like, not only do you need strong leaders, you need strong people.

• 2:15:41Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:41Speaker 00

  Like, we have to be strong collectively.

• 2:15:44Trevor Noah?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:15:45Speaker 00

  Which also means, if someone who is viewed as a leader, there's times you have to step back and allow other people to step into leadership positions.

• 2:15:55Trevor Noah?

  And lead from the back.

• 2:15:56Speaker 00

  And part of that was also the realization of like, as they were trying to discredit me, it's like, well, if they can discredit me, they're gonna try to discredit the movement based off of that.

• 2:16:11Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:11Speaker 00

  As a proxy. It's like, we'll make you illegitimate, which means anything that you are talking about is illegitimate.

• 2:16:18Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:19Speaker 00

  It's like, that's not reality. So how do we elevate more people into that space? And for me, that is one of the pieces that was extremely important. The other part is, generally, my leadership style is, I'm gonna do the work. And I have to do the work if I'm going to ask other people to do it. So while people may view it as, oh, you're silent, or you're not on TV talking and doing these things. We're doing direct work in the community.

• 2:16:55Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:55Speaker 00

  And we're doing it across the country. We've done it internationally. And that became the focus of the efforts. Like, how do we organize on the ground better, more collectively? And now this becoming an opportunity to be able to, to reengage and reignite that and be able to take that further, but that work never stopped. Um, part of it just becomes like strategy around where we think we're gonna have the biggest impact.

• 2:17:22Trevor Noah?

  What is your relationship with Jay-Z now? Where does that stand? Because that's become like a Twitter guessing game. You know, people are like, Jay-Z said this, Colin feels that. I don't, I don't know anything about any of it, and I hate to assume, but I just wanna know because, I'll lay out what I've seen, and you'll tell me what is or isn't, but like, some people, frame it as if like, they go like, Jay-Z joined up, teamed up with the NFL to help them. They said he was coming in to like, you know, revitalize not just their image, but the way they did the game, based on you. And then the camp split, some people say, it felt like Jay-Z didn't focus enough on the original messaging, and focused more on the entertainment side of things.

• 2:18:04Trevor Noah?

  And then the other camp goes, no, Colin went off and made his own deal, and that's why like Jay-Z and Colin don't see eye to eye. And then the other day when he was like at one of his concerts, he said something about you. So like, yeah, and the freestyle. How do you, how do you see the situation? Where does it land for you?

• 2:18:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, um, I mean, I, I, we have very different perspectives as far as how we operate as a people. And for me, there was a point in time, Roc Nation was trying to recruit me to be represented by them.

• 2:18:39Speaker 00

  Saw Jay-Z wear my jersey on SNL.

• 2:18:44Speaker 00

  So I had tried to reach out to him previously, in part just to say thank you at that point for the support.

• 2:18:51Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 2:18:52Speaker 00

  And wouldn't take a call, wouldn't take a meeting, which, all good, like.

• 2:18:59Trevor Noah?

  It's strange, but okay.

• 2:19:02Speaker 00

  I, I agree, but.

• 2:19:04Trevor Noah?

  It's strange to me because you're wearing my jersey. That's the only reason I'm saying that.

• 2:19:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:19:07Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. Makes sense, yeah. That's strange, but okay.

• 2:19:09Speaker 00

  And your organization is trying to recruit me.

• 2:19:11Trevor Noah?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:19:12Speaker 00

  But I don't know what people have going on, so I'm, I, I'm not asking for anything.

• 2:19:20Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 2:19:22Speaker 00

  Now, on the back of that, he had asked me to come on stage, take a knee while he performed Story of OJ. I was like, that's weird you won't get on a call with me, but like, you want me to do this? I was like, no, but would love to sit down if you have time.

• 2:19:38Trevor Noah?

  Right. You're like, no thanks.

• 2:19:42Speaker 00

  I don't need to be a prop.

• 2:19:43Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I'm good.

• 2:19:45Speaker 00

  It's all good.

• 2:19:45Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 2:19:48Speaker 00

  But where, where the real issue came about was, I believe he had started negotiating with the NFL in 2018. During that time period, the NFL had built up an organization called the Players Coalition, to be able to end the protests in the NFL.

• 2:20:09Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 2:20:09Speaker 00

  And explicitly, explicitly giving them a payout to be able to end the protests. They came to an agreement, the next week, they stopped protesting.

• 2:20:21Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:23Speaker 00

  Eric Reid, Kenny Stills were part of those meetings. They were like, we're not, we are not doing that. They had been protesting with me from the beginning. So there was a split there, and part of what came in advance of that deal, was a players' owners' meeting, where within that meeting, it's Roger Goodell, it's Jed York and Bob Kraft and Terry Pagula, Stephen Ross, like, all, all of the decision makers within the NFL. And Terry Pagula during that meeting, was like, we need a blackface to help us lead this.

• 2:21:10Speaker 00

  Now, I've never heard anyone explicitly say it that way. Like, we need a blackface to put out in front. And they tried that with the Players Coalition. That wasn't successful, and Jay-Z was the 2.0 version of that, in my opinion. And part of that is, during the grievance process, we have all the documents, we have the discovery. We have the insight of what was actually happening.

• 2:21:38Speaker 00

  During that process, prior to me coming to a settlement with them, they had also offered me that position.

• 2:21:47Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 2:21:49Speaker 00

  And it's like, we're gonna continue blackballing you, but will you be the face of our social justice initiatives? And they offered this to me as well as Eric Reid. And there, there was a nice price tag associated with that.

• 2:22:05Trevor Noah?

  I can imagine.

• 2:22:07Speaker 00

  It was like, no, I'm not, I'm, I'm not gonna do that. Eric was in agreement, we're not doing that. Like, we're not selling people out, and you're also not gonna take our careers away, while we're fighting for black people, and then be like, be the face of the thing that says, we support black people.

• 2:22:24Trevor Noah?

  Whilst not actually supporting. Yeah, that's interesting.

• 2:22:26Speaker 00

  Exactly. But he did that deal, and then during that process, this is where, I just, I looked at it as very disingenuous. Is, he did an interview with Andrew Bean, I believe the Wall Street Journal. During that interview, was asked, like, have you spoken to Colin about the deal that you just signed? And he said, no.

• 2:22:56Speaker 00

  The next day, I get a call. Or I get a text, hey, can you get on a call from Jay-Z?

• 2:23:05Speaker 00

  I'm like, all right, so, something must have happened, because, it's been a couple of years or a few years at this point, that, we, I've been trying to have a conversation. You want to get on the phone, all of a sudden, it's like, hey, we need to get on a call. During that, shares, I, I did a deal with the NFL.

• 2:23:30Speaker 00

  And I was like, well, can you share like details of what it is? Weren't a whole lot of details at that point.

• 2:23:39Speaker 00

  I was like, I, I completely disagree with what you're doing, and you're, you're selling the culture out to people who do not care about the culture.

• 2:23:51Speaker 00

  And he was like, well, the, the ink is dry.

• 2:23:57Speaker 00

  I was like, well, that's, if that's how you feel, just keep my name out of it.

• 2:24:05Speaker 00

  And that was, that was my one ask. Keep my name out of it. And the press conference the, the next day was, we're doing the deal, we're past kneeling, we shouldn't be talking about Colin, we're moving on to action, as if action hadn't been happening for years.

• 2:24:25Speaker 00

  And on the back of that.

• 2:24:30Speaker 00

  What we saw was, and we got direct calls on this, like, they had been pulling out hit pieces on us and trying to plant stories. Oh, he's already had a job, he doesn't want to play. And we had journalists call us and be like, hey, we're good. Like, we're, we got these calls from Roc Nation, like, is this, is this true? Like, what's up? It's like, no, absolutely, that's not true.

• 2:24:58Speaker 00

  So a bunch of them came back and were like, oh, well, we're not going to run those pieces.

• 2:25:05Speaker 00

  And then it was like, oh, well, we're going to run an ownership story. Uh, like, maybe he'll become an owner or whatever. So it pivoted, but we saw a definitive effort to try to disparage me in that process. Like, we got the calls. And for me, that's where it's like, I can disagree with what you do,

• 2:25:28Speaker 00

  but I'm not going to maliciously go out there and try to, to derail what you're doing or anything like, like that's.

• 2:25:34Trevor Noah?

  Or malign you, yeah.

• 2:25:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, that's a, that's a different type of action. I don't care to partake in.

• 2:25:41Trevor Noah?

  Man, your life, the craziest part of it is that it's not even finished.

• 2:25:46Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 2:25:47Trevor Noah?

  It's already like multiple movies.

• 2:25:48Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 2:25:49Trevor Noah?

  I know you've already made one. You talk about that in the book with Ava DuVernay. The, the one thing I'll say to you is honestly, thank you. Thank you for, for,

• 2:25:58Trevor Noah?

  thank you for how you've shared your story. And I genuinely hope everyone reads the book before they say anything. Just before they say anything, because then, then you see like every shadow and every light, you see every complexity, every grain, every wrinkle, every detail. Then have your opinion, but like, you've, you've written, you've written a really beautiful book, and you've told a really wonderful story. I think it's nuanced. I think it's layered. I, I, I don't think you can just come up with like one flat idea. You know, I, I loved your parents. I also felt bad for them. I felt bad for you. I, I enjoyed parts of the NFL, the parts I got angry about, you know, thought about justice, thought about the system. And the biggest shout out I have to give, yo, oh, that's the book. There, there, there, there it is. There it is.

• 2:26:39Speaker 00

  Ah, yes.

• 2:26:40Trevor Noah?

  I'll hold that up. I'll hold that up. This, this right here, man. This. Let me tell you something. Biggest shout out. Because the, the, I think a lot of the time, the shout out will, won't be said because it isn't as, isn't mentioned as clearly as it is here.

• 2:26:54Speaker 00

  Hundred percent.

• 2:26:55Trevor Noah?

  The lady in your life.

• 2:26:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:26:56Trevor Noah?

  Let me tell you something, man.

• 2:26:58Speaker 00

  Exceptional.

• 2:26:58Trevor Noah?

  Let me tell you something. Nessa, your wife, she, the way you talk about her in this book, she is one of the structural walls in the house that is Colin Kaepernick. You talk about her in the foundation of your program. You talk about her in helping you recover and looking at what you need to do to your body. You talk about what she's done for your mind. You talk about how she supported you when the whole world was against you. You talk about how you strategized together, how you lived together, you laughed together. You talk about the, the birth of your child and how stressful that was, how terrifying it was, how painful it was. I think a story that many couples, many women, many men can, can relate to. You know, almost losing a newborn child. But man, the fact that you don't tell the story as if it is only yours, you just tell it from your perspective, is honestly

• 2:27:43Trevor Noah?

  one of the goaded things I've ever seen anybody do in their book. So shout out to Nessa, because I know this isn't without her.

• 2:27:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:27:48Trevor Noah?

  And it's amazing that you told the story so that she's not a footnote that people then have to try and find later on in life, man.

• 2:27:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, that, thank you for that. Cause Nessa is exceptional. Um, and it is one of the things that I think goes underappreciated.

• 2:28:07Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:07Speaker 00

  Is when we think of, uh, for me, when I think historically.

• 2:28:13Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah. Coretta Scott King, come on.

• 2:28:15Speaker 00

  We think about Coretta.

• 2:28:16Trevor Noah?

  Oh, Winnie Mandela, you name it. You could just keep going down a list.

• 2:28:20Speaker 00

  Exactly. And all of the women that have been leaders in their own right.

• 2:28:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:28:26Speaker 00

  And for me, one of the special moments that we had, uh, early on is we got to spend time with Lani Ali.

• 2:28:35Trevor Noah?

  Wow.

• 2:28:35Speaker 00

  And she was giving us insight in preparation for what to, what was to come.

• 2:28:41Trevor Noah?

  Wow.

• 2:28:42Speaker 00

  And how we should be thinking about it. And that was from her own lived experience. She phenomenally strong. And when I think about what Nessa has done, what she's accomplished in her own right and how she has supported me, um, I, I wouldn't be sitting here today in this way if it was not for her.

• 2:29:04Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you can feel that.

• 2:29:05Speaker 00

  So I, I appreciate you calling that out.

• 2:29:07Trevor Noah?

  Oh, man, we appreciate you. This has been amazing. Colin, thank you so much. Thanks to your team for making the time, taking the time. I don't think it wasn't of course. This is, this has been amazing, man.

• 2:29:16Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 2:29:16Trevor Noah?

  For real, man. Thank you so much.

• 2:29:17Speaker 00

  Of course, of course, yeah.

• 2:29:19Trevor Noah?

  And, and as we would say back home, you're welcome. You are welcome to join us anytime.

• 2:29:24Speaker 00

  Uh, I appreciate that.

• 2:29:26Trevor Noah?

  Genuinely, brother. Thank you so much for this. True joy, man. Thank you.

• 2:29:31Trevor Noah?

  This segment is brought to you by YouTube Premium. You know, I've been thinking about how some of the most interesting ideas I come across aren't from conversations that I'm a part of, but it's the ones that I overhear or I stumble into. And no, I'm not talking about gossip. That's a different thing I enjoy. Yeah, you know what I mean? Sometimes someone is talking about something and suddenly I'm carrying that idea with me for the rest of the day. You, you, you know what I mean, right? It's one of the things I love about YouTube. There's always something happening there. Interviews, podcasts, documentaries, people who've spent years going deep on a single topic. Sometimes you're searching for something specific.

• 2:30:16Trevor Noah?

  Other times, you just land on an idea you hadn't even considered before, and it tends to stick. I'll hear something while I'm getting ready or walking somewhere. And then later on, I'll find myself saying, hey, I, I actually heard this thing today. I'm like, oh, yeah. That's, that's from YouTube. It turns into a conversation somewhere else. Now I'm sharing it with another human being. But I don't always want to be tied to a screen, right? Sometimes you need the video, of course. But a lot of the time, especially with interviews, podcasts, documentaries, it can start as something you watch and then you continue as something you just listen to. And that's great. That's what I like about YouTube Premium.

• 2:31:00Trevor Noah?

  Background play means it doesn't just stop when the screen does. So you can start something over breakfast and then you lock your phone, put it in your pocket and keep listening as you go. And let's be honest, that feels closer to how life actually works. We don't really get long uninterrupted stretches of time to sit down and learn. That's, it's not a real thing. It's more like 12 minutes here, 20 minutes there. And now I have a PhD, you know? And I don't know, I like that curiosity doesn't have to wait for the right moment. YouTube gives you access to all these people and ideas. YouTube Premium lets them move through the day with you.

• 2:31:42Trevor Noah?

  If you like YouTube, let me tell you, you'll love YouTube Premium. Visit youtube.com/premium to sign up now for your free trial. Trial eligibility varies. Terms apply. Cancel anytime.

• 2:31:59Trevor Noah?

  What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with Sirius XM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jess Hackel. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiu. Music mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random other stuff by Ryan Parduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of What Now.

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