xAI Raises $20B, Anthropic’s $350B Valuation, OpenAI Launches ChatGPT Health | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in under 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN.com is made possible by: Ramp - https://Ramp.com AppLovin - https://axon.ai Cognition - https://cognition.ai Console -https://console.com https://feeds.transistor.fm/%20https:/console.com CrowdStrike - https://crowdstrike.com ElevenLabs - https://elevenlabs.io Figma - https://figma.com Fin - https://fin.ai Gemini - https://gemini.google.com Graphite - https://graphite.com Gusto - https://gusto.com/tbpn https://graphite.com Labelbox - https://labelbox.com Lambda - https://lambda.ai Linear - https://linear.app MongoDB - https://mongodb.com NYSE - https://nyse.com Phantom - https://phantom.com/cash Plaid -https://plaid.com https://feeds.transistor.fm/%20https:/plaid.com Public - https://public.com Railway - https://railway.com Ramp -https://ramp.com https://feeds.transistor.fm/%20https:/ramp.com Restream - https://restream.io Shopify - https://shopify.com Turbopuffer - https://turbopuffer.com Vanta - https://vanta.com Vibe - https://vibe.co Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01John Coogan?

  Speaking of AI adoption, is anyone adopting XAI? Certainly investors are because they got $20 billion in the bank now. Seriously, we talked about it yesterday, but I wanted to reflect on it because there were rumors that they weren't going to get this one done.

• 0:19Jordi Hays?

  These were just rumors, but when you looked at XAI's traction relative to their valuation at the time, they were looking for a greater valuation than Anthropic. And yet, the enterprise adoption certainly didn't justify it by itself.

• 0:35John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, there were lots of weird questions. The rumor back in November, the Wall Street Journal reported that XAI was out raising $15 billion in new equity at a $230 billion valuation, and people were skeptical. XAI had accomplished a lot in a very short amount of time. No one would argue with that. They definitely caught up. The benchmarks were good. The data centers were massive, and they were being completed in record time. That's what Elon's really, really good at. But there was a big question about the product and where it was going. It had some useful hooks and some extremely controversial hallucinations, right? But in general, like, I did find myself using Grok, certainly monthly, probably weekly.

• 1:14Jordi Hays?

  In the last 48 hours, Grok has gone a little bit off the rails. But the thing is, you have millions of people that are trying to manipulate it into doing things. It does have guardrails, but Grok's challenge is that you can ask it to create images. And certainly, yeah, again, some of these images have been pretty wild and have gotten deleted pretty quickly. But it is a fully automated system, and I believe if any other lab had a bot that was doing this, it would be happening in all the other labs, right? So this is a thing that I don't think it's a Grok problem as much as it is just the nature of the product experience, which is you can just prompt it via comments, and

• 1:56Jordi Hays?

  it's all public, and it actually gets, it's just crazy to see a lab posting images like that from their own official account.

• 2:03John Coogan?

  If we had sat down and done like prediction... What lab's going to be in hot water for controversial AI content in January? We both would have agreed, OpenAI, adult mode. It's coming out, they teased it, we said it was coming out. And then we get this and it makes whatever erotica is going to come out of OpenAI is probably not going to be as controversial as what's happening with Grok right now, right?

• 2:24Jordi Hays?

  Sure. Part of the reason these images are especially controversial is because it's being shared from the official Grok account.

• 2:30John Coogan?

  Even though Grok and XAI hit a bunch of interesting milestones, did a bunch of great stuff, they didn't really have a breakout in consumer the way ChatGPT and Gemini did. And they weren't making waves with developers the way Claude Code or Cursor were either. And all of that made the rumors of a struggle to raise more believable. I think a lot of people believed that maybe this raise wouldn't happen. But once there were rumors that they get rolled into SpaceX, you get SpaceX stock, that there would be some sort of other thing and just Elon going to make a play, that it would get done. Instead, you know, we are going to be endlessly entertained by the assembly of the ever larger Elon Inc. mega corp, in my opinion. XAI, winning the AI race feels like the wrong framing here.

• 3:14John Coogan?

  I like Dan Wong's formulation of the AI future versus the AI race. There's not some definite point in the future where, oh, like the consumer chatbot race is over. It's like you can always build a business and figure out how to grow and scale. And the same thing might be true on the API side and on the cloud side. And that might wind up just being a economic equation. And if you have the cheapest possible energy from space, maybe in the future, it could make sense, even if you're not in the most frontier model, there's some interesting thing there. There's certainly plenty of bull cases. Throwing out $420 per share for a theoretical take private of Tesla, then getting sued

• 3:58John Coogan?

  by the SEC and then blowing past that price is still one of the most entertaining corporate finance sagas in tech history. So in 2018, when Elon pitched the funding secured take private, I think we've sort of forgotten, because a lot of our audience doesn't think in stock prices, like the scale of that, of like what he was trying to do at that time. So at that time, Tesla was worth $64 billion and he was proposing to take it private at $71 billion. It's worth 1.44 trillion today. So the stock is up 22X since that take private thing. The most entertaining outcome of this fundraise was clearly that XAI would get the deal done, and they did that. And they upsized the route because they got 20 billion when they were rumored

• 4:43John Coogan?

  to be raising 15 in Series A funding. And interestingly, that's almost twice the amount of money that SpaceX has raised in its entire history.

• 4:53Jordi Hays?

  Lifetime.

• 4:53John Coogan?

  So SpaceX has done 31 funding rounds. A lot of those have been secondary transactions, but 31 funding rounds to raise 12 billion. XAI just goes out and raises 20 in one round. And so the question, is XAI overvalued? Well, what's the most entertaining outcome? Clearly, that would be the Elon Inc. mega corp forming. SpaceX acquires XAI before going public, which is easier to do than rolling it into Tesla, which is public and would face a bunch of scrutiny. And that gives us a very entertaining situation. Just think about Twitter, which launched in 2006, being owned by SpaceX, founded in 2002.

• 5:27Jordi Hays?

  Being able to own Twitter and SpaceX in a single ticker.

• 5:31John Coogan?

  Hilarious. Hilarious. It's just, it's just the most entertaining outcome. If you went back in time, even in 2010, 2012, even just a few years ago, and you were like, what if Twitter and SpaceX merged? What are you talking about?

• 5:45Jordi Hays?

  Lay off the ayahuasca, buddy.

• 5:47John Coogan?

  Seriously. But then the question's like, is there going to be the big merger? SpaceX with XAI and Twitter tucked in, plus Tesla.

• 5:54Jordi Hays?

  You create some efficiency too, Elon would only need one badge, right?

• 5:58John Coogan?

  Oh, true.

• 5:58Jordi Hays?

  Which could.

• 5:59John Coogan?

  Huge, huge productivity boost.

• 6:01Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, huge productivity. He probably has to have a full-time badge guy.

• 6:04John Coogan?

  So you have, you have AI chip design, which is done at Tesla, running models trained by XAI, deployed on Starlink satellites, launched on SpaceX rockets.

• 6:12Jordi Hays?

  Rock running in, Optimus robots.

• 6:14John Coogan?

  Yeah. The stock chart will be as entertaining as the hallucinations that happen along the way, was my conclusion. Elon Musk says that XAI will have more AI compute than everyone else combined in less than five years. And he's building Macro Hard, which now has a

• 6:30Jordi Hays?

  That is a bold statement.

• 6:32John Coogan?

  He certainly has, you know, marshaled a lot of the capital. He doesn't have all of it. He's not as much of a capital sponge as Sam Altman at this moment.

• 6:40Jordi Hays?

  This is an actual satellite image, correct?

• 6:42John Coogan?

  Yes. No, they really painted this on the top of the data center.

• 6:44Jordi Hays?

  I appreciate that about Elon and companies where they're trying to move so quickly and the entire ethos is around ruthless efficiency. And yet they still think it's worth the time to paint the ceiling of the data center so that you can see it from space. XAI has also bought a third building called Macro Harder. Will take.

• 7:07John Coogan?

  Is this some typo?

• 7:09Jordi Hays?

  Well, I mean, it's all a joke on Microsoft.

• 7:14Jordi Hays?

  Will take XAI training computer to almost two gigawatts. And.

• 7:19John Coogan?

  How does?

• 7:20Jordi Hays?

  Grok responding. Impressive expansion. Two gigawatt will supercharge our quest for understanding the universe. Good news, the mass production audit for Tesla's Optimus V three has been completed and seven Chinese companies have been finalized as core suppliers. Operating as tier one partners, these firms will manufacture critical components and support key assembly processes. The supply chain is geared to kickstart mass production in Q one twenty twenty six, targeting a capacity of fifty thousand to a hundred thousand units by the end of the year. Does this mean Butler Ready Robots with some sort of intelligence we have not seen will be ready by then? And again, it's like, I imagine Elon would be excited about doing like some type of like shock and awe announcement.

• 8:01Jordi Hays?

  But at the same time, I feel like he also likes teasing stuff and like pretty far in advance. And so. If he's planning to be selling a hundred thousand units this year of the Optimus. You would imagine that we were, we would have been like hearing about it and seeing some more demos and getting teased, but. But yeah, it still feels like we need some type of like meaningful breakthrough before these are going to be. Maybe there's a hundred thousand people that have absolutely printed on Tesla. Be like, I'll just buy one. You know, I'm just ride or die, right? But that's a big, big number, especially when you're talking about. You know, I expect these to cost somewhere in the range of what fifty thousand to.

• 8:42John Coogan?

  I don't know.

• 8:43Jordi Hays?

  Fifty thousand plus.

• 8:44John Coogan?

  I was listening to George Hots talk about the Optimus robot and he was setting timelines further out. He was sort of saying like the humanoid robot thing will happen more like in a decade, but he was saying that it's a great project for Tesla because you can put the Optimus in all their showrooms and those are really big draws for people. You go in, you see the robot, even if it's like on some pre-scheduled, you know, hardcoded, you know, routine. It's doing like a choreographed dance or it's teleoperated, whatever it is. It's, it's like a great awe inspiring thing to just pull you into the random Tesla showroom. But there's only 300 Tesla showroom.

• 9:22Jordi Hays?

  Do you think that, that, that post from Denny's on X earlier was maybe

• 9:26John Coogan?

  What was that one?

• 9:27Jordi Hays?

  in response to seeing some of this Optimus news?

• 9:30John Coogan?

  You think so?

• 9:31Jordi Hays?

  They said, "The trough is open, piggies."

• 9:33John Coogan?

  What?

• 9:35Jordi Hays?

  Maybe, maybe this is teasing that they're going to get some Optimuses, you know?

• 9:39John Coogan?

  It seems like it's, it's teasing an AI-generated vertical video feed.

• 9:43Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 9:43John Coogan?

  From Denny's. They had to get in the social networking space.

• 9:46Jordi Hays?

  Having a fast food restaurant make a short form video app and it's just AI slop of their food.

• 9:53John Coogan?

  That'd be really good.

• 9:54Jordi Hays?

  Good activation. You could probably build that.

• 9:56John Coogan?

  I mean, we're supposed to be going into the Timu SaaS era or Shein. Fast fashion for SaaS is what Sam Altman called it. And so you would think that someone at Denny's could vibe code a vertical video app in a weekend and deploy it as a prank.

• 10:09Jordi Hays?

  SaaS is going fast fashion.

• 10:11John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:11Jordi Hays?

  Maybe fast fashion needs to go.

• 10:13John Coogan?

  Fast food.

• 10:13Jordi Hays?

  Fine SaaS.

• 10:14John Coogan?

  What else?

• 10:15Jordi Hays?

  We have a post here of the Razor.

• 10:19John Coogan?

  Aka? This is powered by Grok. No way. Here we go. Looks like it can directly see what's on your monitor and respond to what you're doing. Sort of a Tamagotchi. Oh, and it's, it's, it's basically just taking the, the Grok video generator and removing the background and then just putting it in some sort of holographic screen. This is interesting. I, I personally would not pick this character, but there's something about

• 10:49Jordi Hays?

  I would pick like

• 10:50John Coogan?

  playing Counter-Strike and having

• 10:52Jordi Hays?

  Tyler in one of these things.

• 10:53John Coogan?

  A CS coach there.

• 10:55Jordi Hays?

  If we could get Tyler in one of these things and just bring a mini Tyler.

• 10:58John Coogan?

  That's very Black Mirror. Put them in the snow globe. Wasn't that one of the Black Mirror episodes? Snow globe? Yeah.

• 11:03Jordi Hays?

  I can see them selling a lot of these.

• 11:05John Coogan?

  How much do you think this is?

• 11:05Jordi Hays?

  I don't know if it's good for the world.

• 11:07John Coogan?

  2.6 is calling it the goon cylinder. Ridiculous, the goon tube. So, uh, there's Razor Ava, Project Ava. Your all-in-one AI companion from planning your day to analyzing spreadsheets when game starts. Rod, Razor, Project Ava, uh, they're like, co-pilot? No, thanks. Leverages AI inferencing and reasoning that dynamically evolves based on your personal interactions. Select your 5.5-inch companion from an expanding library of characters from esports legends to custom anime-inspired Razor designs. Nick Dobbo says they are going to make a billion dollars, LMAO.

• 11:42Jordi Hays?

  This makes me want to touch grass, personally.

• 11:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. This would be cool as almost a, um, it's like the, on the Apple Vision Pro.

• 11:49John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  When you FaceTime someone.

• 11:50John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:50Speaker 02

  It has like the 3D rendering of their face.

• 11:52John Coogan?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  If you could like, when you're FaceTiming someone, they're just in the tube.

• 11:55John Coogan?

  Back to Elon Musk. He was texting Sam Altman two years ago on February 18th, 2023. Sam says, I remember you, I remember seeing you in a TV interview a long time ago, maybe 60 Minutes, it was 60 Minutes about SpaceX, where you were being attacked by some guys and you said they were your heroes, they were heroes of yours, and it was really tough. This was a NASA astronaut who said that SpaceX would not work. Uh, need to check in on that guy. Um, but, uh.

• 12:20Jordi Hays?

  Wellness check.

• 12:21John Coogan?

  And Sam goes on to say, well, you're my hero and that's what it feels like when you attack OpenAI. Totally get that we have some screwed up stuff, but we have worked incredibly hard to do the right thing and I think we have ensured that neither Google nor anyone else is on a path to have unilateral control over AGI, which I believe we both think is critical. I am tremendously thankful for everything you've done to help. I don't think OpenAI would have happened without you and it really effing hurts when you publicly attack OpenAI. And Elon says, I hear you and it's certainly not my intention to be hurtful, for which I apologize, but the fate of civilization is at stake.

• 12:59Jordi Hays?

  Well, next time someone is suing you and, uh, very mad at you.

• 13:02John Coogan?

  Copy paste this.

• 13:03Jordi Hays?

  Copy paste this.

• 13:04John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 13:04Jordi Hays?

  Tell them you're their hero.

• 13:06John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 13:06Jordi Hays?

  And, uh, maybe it gets you a little ground.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  Anthropic is raising 10 billion at 350.

• 13:11John Coogan?

  Woo!

• 13:12Speaker 02

  I mean, I've heard the 350 number for like.

• 13:15John Coogan?

  A while.

• 13:16Speaker 02

  A while. So I don't think this is really like brand new.

• 13:19John Coogan?

  Okay. But that's exciting.

• 13:20Jordi Hays?

  Are you chasing a slug?

• 13:22Speaker 02

  I'm looking, yeah, I'm, I think I'm in some kind of.

• 13:25John Coogan?

  Triple layer SPV.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  There's like four or five.

• 13:28Jordi Hays?

  You're in the fifth layer.

• 13:29John Coogan?

  Deploy, deploy, clog, code. If you're wondering whether saturating Arc AGI one or two means we have AGI now, I refer you to what I said when we launched Arc AGI two last year, which is also the same thing I said when we announced Arc AGI two was coming in spring of 2022 before the rise of LLM chatbots. The Arc AGI series is not an AGI threshold. It's not even a goalpost. I don't even know if we need to.

• 13:54Jordi Hays?

  Why is it called that? Why is it called Arc AGI?

• 13:57John Coogan?

  It is a compass that points the research community towards the right questions. Arc AGI one is a minimal test of fluid intelligence. To pass it, you need to show non-zero fluid intelligence. This required AI to move past the classic deep learning.

• 14:11Jordi Hays?

  Should I just disassemble the goalposts?

• 14:13John Coogan?

  Disassemble the goalposts. The LLM paradigm of pre-training, scaling and static models at inference toward test time adaptation. Arc AGI, the camera moves are wild today. I love it. Arc AGI two is the same, but with tasks that probe deeper levels of reasoning complexity, particularly with regard to concept composition. Still, these are tasks that solve, that are solvable in minutes by regular people with no external tool use. We hired our test takers off the street. Imagine just walking down the street and somebody, hey, come take Arc AGI V two. That sounds fun. So it does not represent the upper bound of what human fluid intelligence can achieve, say, solving a millennium problem. Arc AGI three, launching March 2026. I thought it was already out. Was that a preview that we played with?

• 14:58John Coogan?

  Cause I remember we put you on this task, Tyler. We made you.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think they were still adding new like names. I only played, I think there were just three.

• 15:06John Coogan?

  Well, now we have the answer. It hasn't launched yet. So March, mark your calendars, folks. Arc AGI V three launches then. And Arc AGI V three will probe interactive reasoning. We evaluate how systems explore unknown environments, model them, set their own goals and plan and execute toward these goals autonomously without instructions. We have also started to work on Arc AGI four and five. Two more sequels. You thought it was a trilogy.

• 15:31Jordi Hays?

  I mean.

• 15:31John Coogan?

  They're doing.

• 15:32Jordi Hays?

  Nightmare scenario for everybody.

• 15:33John Coogan?

  It's a cinematic universe, folks. It's not just a trilogy. There's going to be a whole saga.

• 15:39Jordi Hays?

  Sholto says he spent a week over Christmas making RTS.

• 15:43John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:43Jordi Hays?

  Uh, and his Twitter algo has fully switched into game dev Twitter. It's incredibly wholesome. People are making some insane things, in particular. Image to mesh models means some indie devs have created absurd production quality. And he shares some examples.

• 15:57John Coogan?

  Yeah. Where are the AI risk people on this? Because what if he creates a game that's so addictive that all of humanity just plays his vibe-coded RTS endlessly?

• 16:07Jordi Hays?

  It's gonna be nothing wholesome about that.

• 16:09John Coogan?

  Ceases to go outside. It's the true wireheading scenario. And if Schulto's not taking this seriously, I want answers.

• 16:17Jordi Hays?

  Sometimes I'll call you late.

• 16:18John Coogan?

  Are you gaming?

• 16:19Jordi Hays?

  John, just how you doing, buddy?

• 16:21John Coogan?

  You called me last night. I was literally in bed.

• 16:23Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, yeah, I called you last night. Hey, just checking in on you, buddy. You're not playing video games, are you? Fortunately.

• 16:29John Coogan?

  Not. I'm off the sauce.

• 16:30Jordi Hays?

  Mark's safe.

• 16:31John Coogan?

  Back on the wagon, doing Dry January. Dry January.

• 16:35Jordi Hays?

  Colin Frazier says, "I don't really believe in LLM psychosis. I think LLMs mostly just have a lot to offer to people experiencing regular psychosis." This is an interesting take, and I could see this being actually what's happening, right? Typically, if somebody's suffering from any type of psychosis, they start going to talk to people. People can kind of walk them off a ledge or kind of like talk them through the situation, help them get help, et cetera. But an LLM's just like, "I love yapping. Let's yap forever. Let's go down every possible rabbit hole. Let me validate some of your..."

• 17:11Jordi Hays?

  I had a friend in high school that was going through this, and he thought that deers were like...

• 17:21John Coogan?

  Gang-stalking him?

• 17:22Jordi Hays?

  Yes, actually. And so he started telling...

• 17:25John Coogan?

  Did he ever go to the bottom of that?

• 17:26Jordi Hays?

  He started talking with people about that, and they were like, "Let's figure this out."

• 17:30John Coogan?

  Let's go hunting.

• 17:31Jordi Hays?

  And he's back. He's fully recovered.

• 17:33John Coogan?

  I feel like a deer hunting trip would be actually the correct thing to do in that scenario.

• 17:37Jordi Hays?

  Super cathartic.

• 17:39John Coogan?

  Just reclaim the authority, and then you know who's in the driver's seat. Yeah, they might be stalking me, but they don't, they should not be.

• 17:46Jordi Hays?

  The whole house is...

• 17:47John Coogan?

  Cause I guess...

• 17:48Jordi Hays?

  Deers, the heads, you know, mounted like trophies or whatever.

• 17:51John Coogan?

  That might be the cure. It might be a cure to male loneliness, all sorts of things, deer hunting trip. This is an interesting thing. There is a natural problem that sort of happens when a new technology gets adopted very quickly, which is you get all the good and all the bad. So if you just look at iPhone penetration, it went from, or smartphone penetration, it went from zero in 2006 to 100% in 2015 or something. And basically, everyone had a smartphone. And so you get all the top CEOs and brilliant people and scientists are using them. And you get all that. And that's good. And doctors are using them to text their patients. And you get all the good. But then also, all the crazy people are

• 18:33John Coogan?

  using them. And everyone who's doing crime is using them for crime. And so you get the good and the bad, because you just got everyone. And so you really need to look at the-

• 18:43Jordi Hays?

  If grocery stores didn't exist, and they suddenly were everywhere, you'd see videos every day of people going insane in grocery stores. And people would be like, whoa, our grocery stores-

• 18:51John Coogan?

  Making people insane.

• 18:52Jordi Hays?

  -people go insane, right? They'd be like, we're seeing all this, there's all this evidence that people are going insane, you know, acting insane in grocery stores. It must be that the grocery stores are causing it.

• 19:02John Coogan?

  Yeah. So you have to look at like, the prior weight. So what's the base level of psychosis in society? What's the incidence of psychosis with LLMs? Is it higher? Then you have a problem.

• 19:14Jordi Hays?

  I had this pulled up. I kept seeing it and laughing at it over the last like, two minutes. So if I was like, cracking up at the wrong time, this was why. Skook says, been using Gemini as a calorie tracking app.

• 19:26John Coogan?

  Oh, I didn't even see that. I didn't even see the comment. I just thought he just went to Gemini and said, another beer. And it's just funny that you see the little thinking thing. And it's like, thinking about how to process that. That alone was funny.

• 19:39Jordi Hays?

  Just imagining the chat, just another beer, another beer, another beer. 15 beers. Another beer, another beer.

• 19:47John Coogan?

  Yeah. You know, a lot of people are doing Dry January. Other side of that drunk January, potentially underrated. Everyone says if you can do dry January.

• 19:55Jordi Hays?

  That's the real contrarian move.

• 19:56John Coogan?

  Yeah, you proved to everyone, oh, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, you know, in the, in the pocket of big alcohol. I'm not, I'm not boosting the alcohol stocks. But if you can do drunk January, drunk the whole time, hold it together and then go back to normal life, that's potentially even more willpower, potentially. I don't know.

• 20:13Jordi Hays?

  There's, um, so, so, uh, I saw, I saw a picture yesterday. Apparently there's a college, uh, uh, female college basketball player whose last name is Beers. And so on her jersey, it says Beers. It says the number 15, her number.

• 20:30Jordi Hays?

  It's a jersey that just says 15 beers on the back.

• 20:34John Coogan?

  That's great. The, uh, the, the, the alcohol economy is suffering, by the way. This is in the journal. Here's to unloved booze stocks. Uh, the five-year total return through 2025 for the S and P 500 is 96%. If you just bought the S and P 500, you're up, you're up, you doubled your money in five years. Not bad. Uh, everyone else is down in the alcohol industry. AB Inbev, not doing that bad. They're only down 4% over the last five years, but Heineken, down 21%. Diageo, down 38%. Pernod Ricard, down 50%. Remy, down 75%. Boston Beer, the backbone of Boston, is down 80% uh, after, over the last five years. So the chances are way higher

• 21:15John Coogan?

  that you celebrated New Year's Eve with an adult beverage than by smoking a joint, says the, uh, says the Wall Street Journal. Uh, like, I don't, I don't understand this, because I, uh, but the, but the popularity of cannabis, along with the effects of drugs like Ozempic and rising awareness of alcohol's, uh, health risks, have investors in the sector worried. An equal-weighted basket of 11 global alcoholic beverage producers has lost a third of its value in the past five years, including dividends. Dry January might be an odd time to think about alcohol's appeal, but it's often a good month to snap up unloved stocks that other investors dumped toward the end of the previous year. In a market with few bargains,

• 21:57John Coogan?

  booze looks interesting, says the journal. Uh, interesting.

• 22:01Jordi Hays?

  Nikita responded to your post.

• 22:03John Coogan?

  Yeah, I want to go in.

• 22:03Jordi Hays?

  Yesterday, he said, "The point of CES is maximalist futurism. It's all concept art to show. If things keep going in this direction, this is how the world should work. Once you understand it as a museum exhibit and not in any way commercial products, it becomes more enjoyable." That's a good take.

• 22:20John Coogan?

  Ray showed me. Thanks Nikita. I liked it. No, no, this was a very interesting thing and I think we were sort of.

• 22:27Jordi Hays?

  He also responded.

• 22:28John Coogan?

  I know, the next thing is crazy.

• 22:30Jordi Hays?

  Apparently there's a Zoom, a Zoom face station. I don't know what this is actually meant.

• 22:34John Coogan?

  So I think if you put this on in a crowded coffee shop, you can talk, hear and see and no one can hear or see what you're doing.

• 22:44Jordi Hays?

  I think if you put this on in a coffee shop, you're getting tapped. Like, not today, ban.

• 22:49John Coogan?

  It really does look like you're, it looks like a special forces rebreather unit, a scuba diving unit.

• 22:56Jordi Hays?

  That'd be tight if you could wear, if, if, if it was a, you know, if you could, if you could spend like 20 minutes underwater with something like this.

• 23:04John Coogan?

  People are not fans of this. The replies, Tyler says, "The first X hardware product right there." The problem is, is that I think people still associate CES with like, "This stuff's gonna work its way into my life."

• 23:17Jordi Hays?

  Jason Fried went hard on smart homes.

• 23:21John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:22Jordi Hays?

  He called it "The Big Regression." "My folks are in town visiting us for a couple of months. We rented them a house nearby. It's new construction. No one has lived in it yet. It's amped up with state of the art systems. The ones with touchscreens of various sizes, IoT appliances and interfaces that try too hard. And it's terrible. What a regression. The lights are powered by Control 4 and require a demo to understand how to use the switches, understands which ones control what and to be sure not to hit that one because it'll turn off all the lights in the house when you didn't mean to. Worse. The TV is the latest Samsung, which has a baffling UI just to watch CNN. My parents aren't idiots, but definitely feel like they're missing something obvious. They aren't. TVs have simply gotten worse. You don't turn them on anymore. You boot them up.

• 24:05Jordi Hays?

  Uh, Malay dishwasher is hidden flush with the counters. That part is fine, but here's what isn't. It wouldn't even operate the first time without connecting it to an app. This meant another call to the house manager to have them install an app they didn't know they needed either. An app to clean some peanut butter off a plate for serious worse. Thermostats. Nest would have been an upgrade, but these other proprietary ones from some other company trying to be Nest-like are baffling. Round touchscreens that take you into a dark labyrinth of options just to be sure it's set to 68. Or is it 68 now? Or is that what we wanted at, but it's at 72? Uh, worse. The alarm system is essentially a ten inch iPad bolted to the wall that has the weather forecast on it and it's bright. I'm sure there's ways to turn that off, but

• 24:48Jordi Hays?

  then the screen would be so barren, it would just be filled with the news instead. Why can't the alarm panel just be an alarm panel? Worse. And the lag, lag everywhere. Everything feels a beat or two behind. Everything, lag is a giveaway that the system is working too hard for too little. And he says, now, look, I'm no Luddite, but this experience is close to conversion therapy, tech can make things better, but I simply can't see it in these cases. Yeah, I think there's an opportunity to make a like beautiful, modern, ultra analog system for the home. But we've, we've seen this in cars too. Like a lot of the new higher end vehicles that are coming out are actually like analog. Yeah, they're like people like buttons.

• 25:28John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  I feel like it's just a barbell. Like if Apple made your thermostat, it would be good. And like, otherwise I don't want any screens.

• 25:36John Coogan?

  We have some breaking news. There is a new tab in the ChatGPT app. That's right. Greg Brockman.

• 25:42Jordi Hays?

  Adult mode.

• 25:43John Coogan?

  No, health. ChatGPT health is now live. Fiji gave some amazing stats here with more than forty million people globally turning to ChatGPT every day for health questions.

• 25:58Jordi Hays?

  Twenty percent of all the queries are.

• 25:59John Coogan?

  Okay, yeah.

• 26:00Jordi Hays?

  Are health related. So yeah, the question here is how quickly does ChatGPT health try to do the other things that DocTronic is doing? DocTronic is actually trying to be an AI doctor. He talks about being able to effectively be a doctor, you know, write prescriptions in Utah.

• 26:18John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 26:19Jordi Hays?

  Going to fight to expand that. The question will be from a strategic standpoint, how they, they have their own doctors on staff as well. They're operating a telemedicine business and I'm sure they do referrals out. It's hard to see OpenAI ever employing doctors themselves, but they probably would try to build a network around it. So we'll see where this goes, but it's going to be an exciting space to watch.

• 26:44John Coogan?

  So they say today they're launching ChatGPT Health, a dedicated private space for health conversations where you can easily and securely connect your medical records and wellness apps like Apple Health, Function Health, and Peloton. One of my big pushbacks against the, the lab, the Quest Lab wrappers is that. They haven't historically been very enduring. So you go and do them and then a few years later, the product sort of degraded and then you're like, oh, well, I have six different, like amazing web UIs for my health records. But if I keep importing them to chat GPT, I feel like I'll have an account on there for a very long time because it's an enduring company. Makes a ton of sense. This allows chat GPT to offer more relevant personalized support, like when you're preparing a doctor's for a doctor's appointment or looking for

• 27:26John Coogan?

  guidance on a meal plan or exercise routine that fits your needs. That's very cool. Chat GPT Health is another step towards turning chat GPT into a personal super assistant that can help support you with information and tools to achieve your goals across any part of your life. We're starting at the very beginning of this journey, but I'm excited to get these tools into more hands as Fiji Simo. You can sign up to request access. Interesting. They're not just rolling it out. Yeah. One of my big questions for this year is like, is like, there's always been this, there's always been this, this narrative of like, if you build a wrapper that depends on the models not getting better, you're going to have a bad time because the models will just get better. So if your thing is, oh, it can't do long context windows or it

• 28:09John Coogan?

  can't answer in pages and pages and pages. Well, the models are going to get better and they're going to do that, or they're going to do better math. So don't build the math wrapper that's just a little bit better. But if you're building something that's unique and special and off in the side and doesn't really depend on that, maybe you're good for a long time. But obviously, chat GPT has matured a lot and they are going after certain verticals. And I wonder if we'll see one of the foundation labs go after legal since they're already going after code so effectively, like.

• 28:35Jordi Hays?

  And people are definitely.

• 28:37John Coogan?

  That would be interesting. And they're making money there. So it's a big pool of opportunity.

• 28:42Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. And I wonder if people could, they could make, you could, people are using LLMs to do legal work now, but they're just on these standard subscriptions. You can imagine a lot of companies would pay a hundred dollars a month for kind of a more robust version.

• 28:56John Coogan?

  And Sam's talked about this, where your conversations with chat GPT are not, are definitely admissible in court. And so it's like a Google search. It's not like talking to your lawyer. So if you go to chat GPT and you ask, how do I do crime?

• 29:08Jordi Hays?

  Client privilege.

• 29:09John Coogan?

  You don't have client privilege, but maybe there could be a tab where you sign up for some specific plan and you are getting legal advice effectively and it is attorney-client privilege in some ways. And we will see you tomorrow. Leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts, Spotify.

• 29:24Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, please, please do.

• 29:25John Coogan?

  Subscribe to the newsletter, tvthing.com. And we will see you. Tomorrow. Goodbye.

• 29:28Jordi Hays?

  Cheers, folks. We love you.