697 Rachel Hollis: How to Build Confidence, Believe in Yourself and Become Your Best Self

JUST KEEP GOING. There are three fears we struggle with the most: The fear of failure The fear of success And the fear of judgment. The center of all of those fears is “I am not enough.” When we get past that, we can step into anything. People-pleasing is an issue a lot of us face. It’s crazy how we can allow one person’s opinion of us to hold us back. That’s why I really enjoyed my conversation with a bestselling mom who overcame her need to make other people happy: Rachel Hollis. Rachel had been working for over a decade on her career, her marriage, and her brand before her career took off. She wrote six books that hardly sold any copies. Her seventh book became a hit. Her life changed with one viral post that created the momentum for her bestselling book. Girl, Wash Your Face has over a million copies sold and is growing every week. She is host of the RISE Podcast and co-host of the RISE Together podcast. She is a mother of four who was named one of the "Top 30 Entrepreneurs under 30" by Inc. Magazine. She is an amazing example of the power of not giving up. So learn how to follow your dreams and live for yourself (even if you’re a mom) on Episode 697. Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 697 with number one New York Times bestselling author Rachel Hollis.

• 0:09Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:34Lewis Howes?

  Richard Branson said that every success story is a tale of constant adaptation, revision, and change. I want to ask you, where are you at on your success story? What are you telling yourself every single day? What thoughts do you allow to come into your mind? Are they positive or negative? Do you have more positive thoughts than negative thoughts? Do you believe you're actually capable of achieving something that you desire, that you want, that you love? Or do you believe you're not worthy? Today, we've got a powerful guest on. Her name is Rachel Hollis. She is a number one New York Times bestselling author of the book Girl, Wash Your Face.

• 1:14Lewis Howes?

  It has taken over the world this year, sold over a million copies this year alone, continues to just make a massive impact on the hearts of so many women who read this. She is a TV personality, top motivational speaker. She has two of the top 10 podcasts in the world right now and runs the Hollis Company. She was named by Inc. Magazine as one of the top 30 entrepreneurs under 30. And she is deeply passionate about empowering women in business. Known as the Tony Robbins for women because of her motivational, high-energy style. She has a unique ability to empower a female audience, motivational, inspirational, and always approachable.

• 1:59Lewis Howes?

  And I had an amazing time connecting with her today. We talked about the difference between a cheerleader and a coach, and why we all need coaches. We also talked about why, even though you're not good enough when When you first start, you must keep going. Also, how it took years of therapy before she would stop downplaying her business and stop playing small. Why sometimes having an anti-hero is just as powerful as having a hero. And her greatest value is growth and her mission is to provide women with the tools to grow and reach their greatest potential. This is going to blow you away. Make sure to take a screenshot of this, tag myself and at Ms.

• 2:41Lewis Howes?

  Rachel Hollis on Instagram with the link lewishouse.com/697 to share with your friends. Again, tag both of us on Instagram right now. Or throughout this interview, if there's a moment that you like that resonates with you, share it on your Instagram story and let us know that you are listening. Again, a big thank you to our sponsors and I am so pumped about this one. Again, she has been taking over the world, taking over the book world, the podcast world, the speaking world. Without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only Rachel Hollis. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast.

• 3:26Lewis Howes?

  We've got Rachel Hollis in the house who's got an incredible book, Girl Wash Your Face. How's it going? Good to see you.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  Man, I'm tripping out. I'm totally tripping out. I can't believe I'm sitting here with you right now.

• 3:37Lewis Howes?

  It's fun, right?

• 3:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, it feels like a really big deal. The Pacific Design Center is right there. We're in this room with this wall, like.

• 3:44Lewis Howes?

  Love wall?

• 3:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's tripping me out.

• 3:46Lewis Howes?

  Well, everything's probably been tripping you out all year because you've worked for over a decade on your brand and your career and your life.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:55Lewis Howes?

  Marriage, everything. You've written six books that really didn't do much.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally.

• 3:59Lewis Howes?

  And then you came out with a book called Girl Wash Your Face, which just sold a million copies, which is a huge accomplishment and it sold it in eight months or something? Eight months, a book. What were the books that you sold before? How many copies would you sell?

• 4:13Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh, I think my first cookbook probably sold fifteen thousand. You know.

• 4:17Lewis Howes?

  That's a lot.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that was.

• 4:18Lewis Howes?

  That's a lot of books.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  That was the book before this.

• 4:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. But that was the book before this.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  That was the book before this.

• 4:23Lewis Howes?

  What about the first book?

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh, well, so my first book is fiction book called Party Girl, based on the years that I spent as an event planner. And that one has done pretty well. That one sold over a hundred thousand. But it's sold over a hundred thousand like over years and years and years. But never have I, I didn't even know to dream the kind of success that this has had.

• 4:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Because how, I didn't even have a reference point for it.

• 4:49Lewis Howes?

  Because a year ago, you said you had like forty thousand followers, maybe, or something small.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, at Instagram, I think I had forty thousand.

• 4:55Lewis Howes?

  And now you have over half a million.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Half a million on Instagram.

• 4:57Lewis Howes?

  And it's growing like.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Facebook has over a million, yeah, it's crazy.

• 5:00Lewis Howes?

  And it's just been taking off because of this one piece of content.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, well, so incidentally, what really started this ball rolling was a few years ago. I don't know if you know this about my story, but I had a picture go viral. Do you know this story?

• 5:13Lewis Howes?

  What photo was it?

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Uh, me in a bikini. No, you don't know this, okay, so Dave and I were in, Dave, my husband, we were in Mexico. I had just run the LA Marathon. So it was like, number one, this is the best shape I'm ever gonna be in in my whole life. We got a few days away from our kids, we go to Mexico. Truthfully, I'd had tequila. I had had a shot of tequila and I had just gotten this new bathing suit and the top had a monogram. My family's southern, southern women love a monogram. At the time, I had about five thousand fans on social media and I thought, oh, I have a bunch of other moms, like, I'm gonna show off this bikini top. And I'd never taken a picture in a bathing suit before. And so I'm like, you do that thing like Instagram husband, like, honey, take a hundred pictures, we'll find one.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  And so he takes pictures and the very last picture is, I'm laughing because I feel super, like, most awkward. I see the picture and in the picture, I have stretch marks all over my stomach because I carried three babies. And so I start to zoom in, you know that thing you do on an iPhone where you like zoom in? I'm gonna cut it and then I'm like, you know what? All the women who follow me are moms. They probably have stretch marks too. So I end up posting the photo and I wrote something about the fact that I wear a bikini. Like I wear a bikini, I have stretch marks. And I'm proud of this body and every mark on it because there are so many women I know who would kill to be able to carry children and they don't have that blessing. And so I'm gonna rock a bikini cuz this is what my body looks like.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  So I post the picture and this was back, my Instagram's connected to my Facebook. And I posted, it goes on both. And I remember we're sitting by a pool. And at the time, I like went over to see, you know, you like make sure it posted okay. And it had a hundred likes in like a minute.

• 6:55Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  And I had never, I mean, that's nothing, but

• 6:58Lewis Howes?

  It was huge then.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Back in the day, that was massive for me.

• 7:00Lewis Howes?

  And you had like five, 10 likes.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So I'm like, wow, that's crazy. And

• 7:05Lewis Howes?

  Maybe the algorithm changed.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And then like five minutes later, it had a thousand.

• 7:08Lewis Howes?

  Holy cow.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  And then it just, and we sat by a pool. I've never experienced anything like it in my life. We sat by a pool in Mexico and we would just watch this photo go viral. And it was, you know, hundreds of thousands and like immediately people started, they would go to their bathroom and they'd take a picture of their stretch marks. They're posting their stretch mark photos and it went everywhere. Every, when I say that every press outlet in the world picked it up.

• 7:31Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  Everywhere. And I gotta tell you, of all the things that you want to go viral, that's probably not it. Like that was very overwhelming.

• 7:38Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Uh, but it really was the first time that I saw the power of just like being yourself and how much women resonated with me being myself and showing all of it, not just the pretty stuff. And that was, that was really what started to shift and change my career from like food blogger to stepping into this space. And I think this book is sort of the, the modern representation of what started like with that bikini photo.

• 8:08Lewis Howes?

  Wow, it's kinda like that photo on steroids.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I was like, I'll talk about all the things. I'll talk about my stretch marks and back fat and peeing my pants and like all of the horrible, like you don't have kids, so you've never walked through this with a woman, but like all of these horrible things that your body goes through. Yeah, I'll just talk about it all. Cause I feel like if I raise my hand and if I say, I've gone through this, I've walked through this trauma, or I've done this thing that's shameful or embarrassing. If I talk about my stuff, then I hope it gives you permission to talk about yours.

• 8:41Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:42Lewis Howes?

  And so that was two years ago, three years ago?

• 8:44Speaker 01

  That's been a few years, yeah. 2015.

• 8:47Lewis Howes?

  Okay, three years ago.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:48Lewis Howes?

  And then you just started the, the idea for this book came right after that or?

• 8:52Speaker 01

  No, so I was still writing fiction and then, you know, I started as a food blogger, so I had some cookbooks in there.

• 8:57Lewis Howes?

  So you were an event planner, a party event planner, you wrote fiction books?

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:01Lewis Howes?

  And you were a food blogger?

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, all the things. Well, I am a massive book nerd. Like I read, I read crazy amounts of books. And I think most book nerds who also have to do any sort of writing for a living, so I was writing this blog, start to daydream about what it would be to write their own thing. So I had started to dream about books and I read fiction, so I wanted to write it. And that's where I got started in the space. And I was actually, I was on a trip to Ethiopia with, do you know Jenna Hatmaker? She's a big.

• 9:31Lewis Howes?

  I just started following her.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's great. You'd love her. But I was on a trip with her to Ethiopia and we're sitting on a bus and she is massively, massively successful in the nonfiction space for women. And she was like, hey sis, what's your next book? And I was like, oh, okay, get ready. So there's people and they're superheroes. And I like started describing my next fiction book and she's like, no, no. What's the book? What would you tell women if you could tell women anything? And I never thought about it, ever. I never considered writing nonfiction. She said, what would you say if you could say anything? And I knew the answer because I had had years as an influencer with women all over the world. Sending me DMs, I'm sure like you get DMs and emails and all of these things asking,

• 10:17Speaker 01

  "How do I save my marriage? How do I get my son to stop using? How do I lose the last 50 pounds? How do I, how do I, how do I?" And what I wanna say, which never felt appropriate to say, is, "Stop reaching out to a stranger on the internet and fix your own life." I had never encountered anyone like loving women, but also challenging them. Most writers and speakers, female writers and speakers in this space, tend to be more of a cheerleader, and I'm not a cheerleader. I'm a coach. Like a cheerleader roots for you no matter what. A coach challenges you to see something in yourself that maybe you don't see. And so she's like, "What would you say if you could say anything?" And I was like, and I literally, I started doing this with her. I'm like, "Girl, like, get off the floor."

• 11:02Speaker 01

  Like, "Girl, stop crying. Girl, get a hold of your life. Girl." And she says, "Girl, wash your face." And I wrote the first chapter on The Plane Right Now from Ethiopia.

• 11:12Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:13Lewis Howes?

  So she gave you the title?

• 11:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's dedicated to her.

• 11:15Lewis Howes?

  I saw that, yeah.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Because she's the jam, so. I also love that story because I think it's such an incredible example.

• 11:23Lewis Howes?

  It was pivotal for you because you had an idea of doing something completely different.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 11:27Lewis Howes?

  And then she was like, "No, that's not the right fit."

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is like, you are doing this for me in real time, and so many people in this space are doing, like, you're looking behind you at people who are coming up, and you're like challenging them to see something in themselves. This woman is a leader in this field, and many people would be challenged by the idea of like, "Oh, let me help like the next generation to..." So I just think it's so incredible that she wasn't, there is this like scarcity mentality or this me, me, me, and she was like, "No, let's..." And now, of course, I've heard like so many people like, "Yeah, Jen did that for me too." She, yeah, so I wanna be, wanna be like her.

• 12:03Lewis Howes?

  That's pretty cool.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:04Lewis Howes?

  And that was a couple of years ago.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:06Lewis Howes?

  On a trip.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  On a trip to Ethiopia. Came home, I wrote that first chapter, sent it to my agent. I was like, I know we haven't done anything like this before, but see what you think. And we sent it out and it was the first time ever in my career where people fought over a book.

• 12:21Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 12:21Speaker 01

  You know what it's like, like, well, maybe you've only ever had people fight over. I've been like sending something out and it's like crickets. And it was the first time.

• 12:28Lewis Howes?

  This one, they wanted, everyone wanted it, really?

• 12:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know, the first line of the book and the first, the first chapter that I started, we sent out was, I peed my pants last week. That's literally the opening line of the book. And so I think it was in a like Instagram perfect world, there weren't a lot of women who were like, no, I got all the things, let's dig into them.

• 12:48Lewis Howes?

  Wow, it's interesting because I think you know Jenna Kutcher, right?

• 12:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I'm going to Tennessee with her in a couple of weeks. We're taking it, yeah.

• 12:56Lewis Howes?

  She's amazing.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  She's the best, Roman Girl Trip.

• 12:58Lewis Howes?

  But she kind of had that similar moment earlier in the year where she did a photo.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  Yes, with that post about her husband.

• 13:03Lewis Howes?

  That went viral and her whole career business.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  Exploded, yeah.

• 13:07Lewis Howes?

  Life has changed because of one image.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 13:10Lewis Howes?

  One post.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 13:11Lewis Howes?

  Same thing happened with you with that image at that time. And this book at this time changed your life. You're saying how you can't even go to the grocery store without moms coming up to you and being like, you've changed my life.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:23Lewis Howes?

  And stalking you at hotels at midnight and, you know, doing all these things.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  I'm learning to navigate it.

• 13:28Lewis Howes?

  But what most people don't, probably don't know is that you really didn't make much money for the first five, six, seven years of your business, right? You were just working extremely hard, coming out with content. You wrote multiple books.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:40Lewis Howes?

  They weren't making a lot of money, it sounds like.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  No money, no attention. This is the first.

• 13:46Lewis Howes?

  No followers.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I always had a community, but it was small. And I wasn't obsessed with the idea of how do we, like, I get this question all the time, like, how do I grow my social following? I'm like, serve the audience you have. Add value to the audience you currently have. I, I have the community I have because they keep talking about me to other people. Sorry, that's a side note. But for years and years, every single penny that I made, I invested it back into the company.

• 14:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Because I knew that I wanted to scale and I knew I wanted to build something bigger and. We had revenue, but not enough for me to take a salary. And I was really blessed in that we could live off of my husband's salary for a long time, which we did. This is the first time in years, years and years, that I have put money. Like, I put a check in my bank account for the first time two months ago. And I cried like a baby. Because it wasn't, I'm so blessed that we were able to live off of Dave's salary, but there was something like psychological for me about being able to contribute. Like, I put money in our bank account. I, I don't know, it was a big deal.

• 14:48Lewis Howes?

  Sure, it's amazing.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I just kept reinvesting. And it really has felt like, I don't know, like a snowball rolling down a hill. Like, all of a sudden, it just took speed and, and went crazy after like pushing it for years and years.

• 15:02Lewis Howes?

  But you had a lot of people saying no, and a smaller audience for a long time. And you came out with book after book and speech after speech. And it wasn't like this overnight thing.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  No.

• 15:12Lewis Howes?

  Which a lot of people think it is, like, oh, she just came out with a book, and it's crushed, and a million copies, and I should be able to do that right away.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, no way. It like drives me insane, actually, because there's a little part of me, like I've, you know, people have, as their books have come out, their first books, they're like, oh, I hope it does.

• 15:30Lewis Howes?

  Hits New York Times, so I hope it does this.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  I don't say it, but in my head, I'm like, how dare you? Like, how dare you? You're aiming at the wrong thing. My hope as a writer, and still is, is like, I hope there's one person that it resonates with. You know that feeling, I know you do, where you like go to an event, or you have a signing, or you get to meet someone who's been affected by your work, and you're like, oh, it was for you. It was for you. If you were the only person that got value out of this, that was worth it.

• 15:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  So I just feel like, no, don't get me wrong, I was super freaking happy when it made the list. Like, that's a big deal. But if that's what you're chasing, you're here for the wrong thing. Because you don't know when or if you will ever get the accolades that you're hoping for. Writing, for me, that's my creativity. That's my craft. I think you write, or you take pictures, or you draw, or you dance, because you have a God-given ability to do that. I feel like that's, you know. That's our poten- like, our potential is our gift from our creator. And I can't think of anything more horrible than like, that just dies inside of you because you're too afraid to do anything with it.

• 16:36Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  So, I'm like, I'm so grateful that it's resonated the way that it has.

• 16:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  But-

• 16:42Lewis Howes?

  What do you think's helped it take off? You know, you launched it, you put it out there. Did it take off in the first two weeks?

• 16:48Speaker 01

  No.

• 16:48Lewis Howes?

  Or was it kind of like-

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 16:49Lewis Howes?

  Was there a few different moments, like that photo you posted a few years ago, that that was a big spike-

• 16:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:56Lewis Howes?

  And that snowballed into this and that.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  This is a hundred percent word of mouth. I've never seen anything like it in my life. And if you go, I think it has over seventy-five thousand hashtags on Instagram right now. This is just women telling other women to read it. I'm so grateful for my community because they are who made this successful. This was not, like, you, you can't, as one person, you know, do it. And we didn't have a budget to put against it. It was just like-

• 17:21Lewis Howes?

  Hope it works.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Hope it works, um, yeah, so it's-

• 17:23Lewis Howes?

  So you didn't have a big campaign and press and media?

• 17:25Speaker 01

  No, because I was, I was, it was the first time that I'd done a book like this. So there was no proof of concept. You know, the publisher was like, well, we hope it works.

• 17:34Lewis Howes?

  They didn't do much to push it out necessarily?

• 17:36Speaker 01

  No, and they were like, the team is incredible and they worked really hard. But you know how it is, like, depending on what your name is and how much clout you have, you get certain levels of-

• 17:45Lewis Howes?

  Crazy.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  Help or money or whatever. And we just kept talking about it and I wanted so badly to make the list, like, so badly. I did, I did.

• 17:54Lewis Howes?

  I did too.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  I listened, you did a podcast, like, right before mine came out where you were like, here's what I did. I was like, taking notes in the airport. So I was listening to all the things and the day that, what, so a week later, so your book comes out on Tuesday and a week later on Wednesday is when you know. And I knew that that was the best chance I would have because of-

• 18:13Lewis Howes?

  First week.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, first week, pre-order sales, all the hype.

• 18:15Lewis Howes?

  You didn't hit it, did you?

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Didn't hit it.

• 18:17Lewis Howes?

  How did that feel? It's just like heartbreaking, right?

• 18:19Speaker 01

  It was it was truly heartbreaking for me. I cried so hard.

• 18:23Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh, I cried so hard. Um, and the thing was, I had told, I never had called my shot publicly, ever. Cause you know.

• 18:31Lewis Howes?

  I'm gonna hit it.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  I I said, I didn't say I'm going to, but I said, I've wanted this since I was a little girl. And then the community, like, they took it on their back and they're like, we're gonna help you make the list. And so now I feel embarrassed and I feel like I've let them down. Cause they, and so I have a good cry, just get it all out. And then I thought, wait a minute, I spend my life telling other women that it's okay to fail. I spend my life telling them to take big shots, even if it means that they fall on their face. This is like, this is such a gift right now, cause I get to practice it in real time. Like, I called my shot, I didn't make it, but dang it, I'm gonna stand back up tomorrow and I'm gonna keep going. Cause that's not what this is about. And then I think I made it week eleven. So that's a while, right?

• 19:17Lewis Howes?

  Crazy.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  And they called my office, I was there by myself, they called my office and I answered the phone and my publisher, like, the head of the publisher was on the phone. He said, hey, I'm here with Jeff, who's the head of marketing. And I thought, well, I've either made the list or I'm about to be fired. I don't know if you could fire an author, but it might be happening. They were like, we just called it, we're looking at New York Times and your name's on the list. And I couldn't, like, I I couldn't feel it, I couldn't feel that emotion. And I was like, thank you, thank you. And I got the phone with them and I called my husband at work and I made his assistant pull him out of a meeting. He like, thought someone was dead. And he got on the phone and I was like, I made the list. And he started freaking out and his emotion broke my emotion. And I was like, I fell to the floor, I was crying. This is very dramatic.

• 20:03Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  But if you've had something in your life.

• 20:06Lewis Howes?

  You dreamed of.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, and for me, it was publishing, like, I always thought if I just, if I could just finish a book, someone will publish it. And then I did finish my first book and everyone turned it down. And so there was this part of me, I think, that thought, it's like, oh, you're not actually a sucky writer, you're not like, we're sorry that we gave you a stick, like, you're great. I was reading something the other day about, like, all these stories, like, Michael Jordan or different people where it's like, he got cut from his varsity basketball team, or all the stories of people who got turned down the first time. And that there's this idea. That Michael Jordan, like that the guy got it wrong, that his coach got it wrong, or that with my first book, like the publishing world got it wrong. No.

• 20:50Lewis Howes?

  Oh, you weren't good enough.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  I wasn't good enough yet. I wasn't good enough yet, and he wasn't good enough yet. And you had, we had to keep doing the work to get to a place where we could be here. And that's the thing that I think people miss is like, you have to keep going. You don't even know who you're gonna be. You don't know who you're gonna be half a decade from now, or 10 years from now, because you, you stopped. Why am I successful and other people who want the same things and started at the same time aren't? Because when they heard note, they listened. I just kept going. I just kept going.

• 21:24Lewis Howes?

  Boom.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  Boom.

• 21:25Lewis Howes?

  I like that.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Oh, man, I feel like if I got a reaction from you, I must be doing something.

• 21:29Lewis Howes?

  Kept going. And the thing that you did, you kept going with a family. You had, what, two kids, three kids by then? Couple of years ago, you have your fourth kid now. And what do you say to moms who have one kid, or two kids, or multiple kids, about what's possible for their dreams?

• 21:47Speaker 01

  Well, I think-

• 21:48Lewis Howes?

  If they feel overwhelmed, overworked, their face is really dirty.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, they need to wash that face.

• 21:52Lewis Howes?

  They can't wash it, because every day, there's another poop stain on their face. From their kid that they gotta wipe their diaper.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:58Lewis Howes?

  Throwing up on them.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  You have like a really twisted image of what parenting is.

• 22:02Lewis Howes?

  Poop and throw up all over you.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  When you're covered with poop all over your face. No, no. I think the first thing that I would love for women to understand, especially moms, is that you're allowed to have a dream for yourself that doesn't involve these babies. And not only that, I think that's the point. I think that's the calling. I think that's why you're here. I think that it's possible to be both an incredible mom and an incredible wife, if that's your thing, and to pursue your version of more. I think that there are plenty of women for whom being a stay-at-home mom is the goal, and that's incredible. I think you should just wanna be the best version of a stay-at-home mom you can be. But if you have something else, if you have like the tugging on your heart that like,

• 22:47Speaker 01

  what if I, what if I, what if I built an app? What if I started a business? What if I went back to school? What if I got out of debt? What if, what if, what if? Like, I think that what if? That's your potential. You can't get it out of your heart because you're not supposed to. You're supposed to pay attention to that thing. So you're allowed to have a dream. You're allowed to chase something, even if it doesn't make sense to anybody else. In fact, maybe especially if it doesn't make sense to anybody else. You are in real time showing these babies what it is to be a grown up. What it is to be a woman. What it is to be like a being with your own hopes and dreams and desires. And not only that, but these kids are gonna grow up.

• 23:33Lewis Howes?

  And then what?

• 23:33Speaker 01

  And then what?

• 23:34Lewis Howes?

  When they leave.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:36Lewis Howes?

  And your whole dream was to be a mom.

• 23:38Speaker 01

  Yes, which is like, uh, great.

• 23:40Lewis Howes?

  But then what are you gonna do with the rest of your life?

• 23:42Speaker 01

  Yes, like so many women, like the number one thing I hear at book signings is women who come up and they say, it's moms, they'll say, I've lost myself. I don't know who I am. I don't know, I don't even know how to find my why. I don't know what my passion is. I don't know. And I'm like, who were you before you were their mom? Who were you before you were his wife? Who were you before you were with your partner? Who were you? What were you into? What did you love? What lit your heart on fire? And a lot of times, the things that they loved, they feel stupid about. They're like, well.

• 24:19Lewis Howes?

  Love to dance.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:20Lewis Howes?

  Art, music and singing.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Choir, I loved. Somewhere along the way, we got the idea that if we couldn't make money at something, it didn't have any value in our lives. No, dang it. That's the point. That's the point of living. Like, what are you doing if the only thing that you have in your day is how you show up for other people? Well, it's no wonder that you've lost who you are. I'm also super obsessed with the idea, this is a lot of what the next book is about, is women, from the time most of us are born, most societies that I know of raise women to, that to be a good woman is to be good for other people. So if you can be a good wife to your partner, if you can be a good mom to your kids, if you can be a good daughter, good friend,

• 25:07Speaker 01

  which means that all of your value is wrapped up in the way that other people perceive you. So like I never hear people who are like, oh, look at Sarah. Like she practices self-care, like, oh, she's such a good mom with her self-care. Or like, oh, look at Jamie, like she's running another marathon. That's like, oh, the definition of a good wife. No, it's all about how you show up for others. So then you have, like, it's no wonder that women struggle so much with their perception of themselves or other people's perception of them, because we've been taught that that's our value. So of course you don't think there's any value in you being part of show choir on weekends, because you've been taught that what he wants for you is more valuable than what you want for you.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  Man, if you have something on your heart, if there's something that keeps showing up that you think like, this is like, I'd really like to do that, but what if they laugh? I'd really like to do that, but what if I fail? I'd really like to, but I'm gonna have to find childcare. I like, dang it, sister, listen to that. Listen to that voice in your head, listen to that voice in your heart. That is the real you, begging, begging you to step into who you're called to be.

• 26:22Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm, yeah. Do you think that's the biggest challenge for women is that they are, let's say, moms? That they, that you see is that they're not stepping into who they're supposed to be?

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 26:33Lewis Howes?

  Or they don't believe they have the capacity to, or they're not allowed to? Is that the challenge?

• 26:37Speaker 01

  I think it's a lot of, everything comes back to other people's opinions.

• 26:43Lewis Howes?

  People pleasing.

• 26:44Speaker 01

  Yes, they are drowning, women, myself included, drowning. I used to drown inside of what other people thought I should have for my life.

• 26:53Lewis Howes?

  It starts with parents, right?

• 26:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, like, I didn't come from a society and my, I didn't marry into a family where it was super normal for a woman to be an entrepreneur, for a woman to be a writer, for a woman to be a speaker. That, we, both Dave and I came from really traditional backgrounds. We're like, dad worked, mom stayed home and raised the kids. And so it was, I had navigated that for years of, I really wanted to build a company. I really, I was, I was really, it still excites me, like, trying to figure out, okay, how do we scale this? How do we grow here? And it was fine, people thought it was fine, when we needed the money. When we needed the money, when we were newlyweds and we needed the money, everyone was supportive of like this cute little thing that Rachel did.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  And then when he started to make enough that we didn't need that and we had kids, everyone immediately like, when are you quitting? When are you gonna stop? And I was like, I just worked so hard to build this business. So I didn't wanna stop, but I also didn't wanna bother anybody. I didn't wanna put anyone out, didn't want anyone to be mad at me. And so I spent years and years building this thing, I don't wanna say like in secret, but I would never talk about it. If I went to an event with Dave, um, we worked in the industry. And if I went to an event and someone asked me what I did, I'd be like, oh, I'm a blogger. I like had a staff, full-time staff of five, we're doing really good revenue, working with some of the biggest brands on the planet. And I would be like, I'm just, I'm just a blogger.

• 28:20Lewis Howes?

  A little hobby on the side.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, my little, my little side hobby, my little thing.

• 28:25Lewis Howes?

  You were playing small.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  Absolutely. We go to family parties. I wouldn't talk about my business at all because I knew that it would make people uncomfortable. Like I just.

• 28:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  And simultaneously, and I can call this out in women when I see it all the time now, is that when women do this, the number one symptom that happens when you do this is anxiety. Like when women tell me that they're suffering with anxiety, I'm like, who are you trying to please?

• 28:47Lewis Howes?

  Ooh, snap.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Because it, it like it always, if I keep digging, it always comes back to that. It's like you're living, it's almost like you're living a double life. Your heart is telling you you're one person and your brain is telling you, but you've gotta fit into this box over here. And so for years I did this and for years I suffered from anxiety attacks. And it took a ton of therapy and a ton of work to get to the other side of it, to be able to have the courage to be like, no, this is who I am.

• 29:14Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  And not this is who I am like middle fingers up, like a Beyonce song, like get out of here, you can't. No, like I am going to be so full of love with myself that I don't need to beg you for it with the way I live my life.

• 29:31Lewis Howes?

  You don't need approval from anyone else. Cause you can be happy alone or full of love alone.

• 29:36Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 29:37Lewis Howes?

  I like making people uncomfortable. I like, I like either making people uncomfortable to get them out of their situation and get them to rise to their greatness. Or I just spend time with people that support my dreams.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:52Lewis Howes?

  It's either one.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:53Lewis Howes?

  But for me, it's like, if I'm gonna be around you, and if you're not gonna be on board with what I'm doing, cause I'm on board with what you're doing.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:00Lewis Howes?

  Whether you want to play small or not, I'm gonna be on board with your life.

• 30:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:03Lewis Howes?

  And excited for you and wanting to push you to do more, but don't try to pull me down in any way.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  Well, but see, the flip of that is I think that's accepted for a man.

• 30:12Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, is it?

• 30:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I don't think that it often feels like that for women.

• 30:16Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  I feel like we sort of raise men to like, be ambitious, chase your dream, do the thing, be yourself. And we raise women to chase men.

• 30:27Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 30:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, everybody that I grew up with, everybody that I grew up with, like, that was your goal. Was you're gonna get married and you're gonna have babies. Like, that is why you are here. And I know that's not every culture, but it's a lot of cultures.

• 30:42Lewis Howes?

  Even subconsciously, maybe. Maybe you're not saying that, but it's like, you feel it.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Yes, and I, I mean, I hope, God, I hope, you know, I have a daughter 18 months old. Like, I refuse to teach her this narrative. I refuse to teach her this narrative. And I hope in this next generation, I hope that in a younger generation, I hope the girls on my team who are in their twenties, I hope they would tell you something else. I hope they would say, no, I was raised to go to college. I was raised to build a career, I was raised to build my dreams and cha- like, I hope that's the narrative. But I'm 35, and I can tell you that for the friends that I know and the women I interact with online, that was the goal.

• 31:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  And it's so hurtful, what if you're gay? What if you're not interested in men? Or what if you don't want to get married? Or what if you don't want to have babies? Like, so then you have no value because you're not the way that society says you should be. So I think that it is, it's a really hard thing to come out from underneath. I think of it too, like, when you're a little girl, the value that you have a little girl is how other people perceive you as a daughter for your parents. It's like, oh, she's so cute, she's so funny, she's so precocious, she's so... So you learn at a very early age that, oh, oh, when I please other people, that makes mom and dad happy. Like, when I do, okay, so I'm gonna keep...

• 32:00Speaker 01

  And so we, we are taught to like, live our lives for how other people perceive us. And then you hit 35 and you're like, well, I don't know who I am.

• 32:09Lewis Howes?

  Who am I?

• 32:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know who I am. I've lost, I've lost myself along the way, so.

• 32:13Lewis Howes?

  When did you feel like you found yourself?

• 32:16Speaker 01

  So I, yeah, so when I was having really bad anxiety attacks, I this was probably five years ago.

• 32:23Lewis Howes?

  Thirty years old.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, thirty years old, having, having really bad anxiety attacks, like have a company to run, have people who are counting on me. And I could function, I had, I was, I had a double whammy, so I was having anxiety and I was having horrible vertigo. Like room would spin, didn't feel comfortable driving. Of course, now I can look back and be like, hello, you had problems, but at the time I was like, I'll just work harder. I'll just drink more caffeine. I'll just, you know, like, I was a nightmare, right? I was a horrible workaholic, like horrible workaholic. Hustling for my worth, just kept thinking, I'll just keep growing, growing, growing, and then we'll see what happens. So I was having really bad anxiety and I wanted, I got to a place where I was gonna have to be on medication.

• 33:06Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 33:07Speaker 01

  And

• 33:07Lewis Howes?

  How was your, uh, health and?

• 33:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I, like meaning like I'm gonna have to take something to calm myself down.

• 33:13Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  And

• 33:14Lewis Howes?

  Were you in good shape physically or?

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Physically great, running marathons, doing, you know, eating well, but

• 33:19Lewis Howes?

  So you're a workaholic on all levels, you're like

• 33:21Speaker 01

  On all levels.

• 33:22Lewis Howes?

  I'm gonna train, I'm gonna this, I'm gonna that.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  Yep, and frankly, I'm gonna say this and you're gonna understand it. I could have gone on that way forever, but when it started to affect my performance, then I was like, I gotta get help.

• 33:33Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  Because my performance is like, my ability to show up, my ability to do work, my, that's like that lights my heart on fire. So if I can't do this anymore. Yeah, I was, I was going a hundred miles an hour and I had really bad anxiety and I was like, I'm gonna have to get medicine. I would, I would have anxiety attacks and I remember Dave would be like, babe, like, what's wrong? I'm like, I can't tell you what's wrong. I, I, I don't know what's wrong, but it's bad. And I can't function and I'm crying in bed, like that kind of, have you ever had an anxiety attack?

• 34:02Lewis Howes?

  Not an anxiety attack, I feel like I've had a lot of a emotional I don't know if they're breakdowns, but just like moments where it's hard for me to get past it.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally, totally.

• 34:13Lewis Howes?

  But I wouldn't be like, ah, it was just more like in the fetal position, like sad.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I had like a lot of extended family members who had abused prescription pills. And so I had a fear of that. I had a big fear of that. And so when I felt like I was gonna have to get on medicine, I was like, you gotta do something. And honestly, if you need medicine, like, get on it. Do the thing, work with the doctor, get past it. But for me personally, I really didn't want to have to go there. And so I was like, then you better do some freaking work.

• 34:45Lewis Howes?

  So what'd you do?

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Got in therapy, immediately read every book I could find, started, went to therapy, helped with the anxiety, still had really bad vertigo.

• 34:54Lewis Howes?

  So just communicating and talking about your stresses helped you relieve it?

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Well, the irony is I realized how much anxiety for me was triggered by people pleasing. So, I mean, I could be cut off in traffic, like not even I did something. I could be cut off in traffic and someone, I could tell that the person in the car was like mad at me, like, you know, LA, like they flip you off or they do something. And it would send me into an anxiety attack, like anybody being upset with me.

• 35:19Lewis Howes?

  It's funny you say that because just yesterday I was thinking that, how I can be, if I'm not clear with my intentions every single morning of how I want to show up that day, if I haven't meditated, if I haven't thought about my day, I can be driving and someone could react to me or honk or flip me off for some reason. And I can get me so reactive.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:39Lewis Howes?

  Quickly.

• 35:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:40Lewis Howes?

  This defensive reactiveness.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  You're like, where did that come from?

• 35:43Lewis Howes?

  I'm like, what am I doing? So that's why every single morning I really focus on when someone does this today.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  Not if.

• 35:49Lewis Howes?

  How do I want to show up? Because it's going to happen with, you know, something in my team or my audience or someone outside, whatever it may be, someone's gonna say something or look at me the wrong way, especially being in West Hollywood.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, hello, yeah, totally.

• 36:03Lewis Howes?

  People beg for money and then if you don't give it to them, they're like, you have, you know?

• 36:06Speaker 01

  You're like, what? I didn't have any change.

• 36:08Lewis Howes?

  Or if you give them some money, they're like, look at you like it wasn't enough, whatever.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  Only in LA.

• 36:12Lewis Howes?

  Someone is going to be upset at you throughout your life.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 36:14Lewis Howes?

  Multiple times, probably every single day. And that's why I think it's important for us to, you know, it's interesting you say this because. I think there are three fears that we struggle with the most. The fear of failure, a lot of people struggle with. And that's why they won't take on something in their life because they're afraid to fail. The fear of success, which is, I never had that.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, me either.

• 36:37Lewis Howes?

  I was always like, I want to achieve this.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, when people ask me that in conferences, I'm always like, I don't even know.

• 36:43Lewis Howes?

  So many people when I say, how many are afraid of success? A lot of people say that.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:46Lewis Howes?

  But there's a weight and a responsibility of leaving people behind.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  Yes, that is, you're so right. That's always the thing.

• 36:52Lewis Howes?

  It's like, well, if I do this, my family and friends won't.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:55Lewis Howes?

  They'll like try to pull me down or something. And the last fear, which I think you and I have and had, is the fear of judgment. Being judged for who we are, what we want, who we want to be, the things we say, the things we do.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:09Lewis Howes?

  The passions we have in life. And that fear of wanting to please people and being judged. And at the center of all three of those is just, I'm not enough.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:18Lewis Howes?

  You know, we believe we're not enough. And that's why we have these three fears. But when we can get past the fear of failure, success, and judgment, that's when we can step into anything.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 37:29Lewis Howes?

  Anything.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:30Lewis Howes?

  But that people pleasing is something that a lot of us face.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:33Lewis Howes?

  So what did you do to get past the anxiety of pleasing?

• 37:36Speaker 01

  Well, so I had gone, I was going to therapy, I was doing all these things. And then the honest to God truth is, I went to UPW.

• 37:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it changed my life.

• 37:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  And it was my first.

• 37:48Lewis Howes?

  For those of them now, it's Tony Robbins.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  Tony Robbins, Unleash the Power Within. It was my first personal growth conference like that. Super powerful. And it's like four days of therapy, intense therapy, group therapy, all the feelings.

• 38:01Lewis Howes?

  Getting it out, catharsis, screaming, dancing, talking.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  Everything. But the most powerful thing that he said that day was, and this is in the documentary that's on Netflix. He says this line, he's talking to someone and he says, which parent did you crave love from most? Not who did you love most, who did you crave love from most?

• 38:20Lewis Howes?

  You wanted your mom or dad?

• 38:21Speaker 01

  Dad, absolutely dad. Dad was a Pentecostal minister. I did not have his attention and I wanted it. And he says, he says, so who did you crave love from most? And I'm like, okay, dad. And he said, and who did you have to be to get his love? And so for my dad, by the way, like everyone, everybody's limiting beliefs are wrapped up in this thing. Like, I believe this to be true. So for me-

• 38:45Lewis Howes?

  Who did you have to be?

• 38:46Speaker 01

  I had to be a performer, an achiever-

• 38:50Lewis Howes?

  Perfect.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  -when he wanted to pay attention to me. And the second he was done, children should be seen and not heard.

• 38:56Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  So this was this horrible dichotomy for a little kid, which was-

• 39:01Lewis Howes?

  Turn it on.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then shut up.

• 39:03Lewis Howes?

  And shut up and go to your room, or just sit there.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  So I'm like, oh, now I find myself as an adult, working myself till illness. I can't stop achieving. The second I achieve something, I'm already trying to figure out what the next, I mean, the second. Don't celebrate anything, on to the next thing, and simultaneously, keeping it super small so it doesn't offend me.

• 39:21Lewis Howes?

  Not telling anyone.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  No.

• 39:22Lewis Howes?

  Not telling anyone in advance.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  I'm like, at, in this huge fourteen thousand person thing, like, by myself, like, oh my god, is anyone else getting this? It was so powerful for me.

• 39:34Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  And I came home from that trip, just on fire, like, on fire.

• 39:39Lewis Howes?

  You walked on fire too.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, the whole thing, like, I'm so passionate and alive and feel more like myself, and I came home to a husband that was not interested. Like, he thought it was all, you know, it's all a cult, you're crazy. He was actively not interested in where I was, and now I came home and I'm on fire, and I'm getting up at 5 a.m., and he's grouchy and grumpy and not having any of it. And it was the first time in our relationship that he didn't like something, and I kept doing it.

• 40:10Lewis Howes?

  Ooh, so you didn't please him, you didn't stop to please him.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  For the first time ever in my life, I was like, this is not about how you feel about me changing. This is about how I feel about me changing. And I just kept going. And the interesting thing is, about three months later, I'm still on fire, I'm still doing all the things. He was like, okay, I wanna go.

• 40:31Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 40:31Speaker 01

  I wanna know what this is all about. I wanna see.

• 40:34Lewis Howes?

  You got past like needing to please him and you kept going and you hurt his feelings probably a lot and upset him.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  Made him very uncomfortable. Cause I think anytime, this is another question I get is women are like, I wanna change or I wanna build my business and my partner is hates it. It's like, well, yeah, because you're changing and now they're afraid that you're going to not love them anymore, right? Because you're growing and you're changing. What if you don't need them?

• 41:00Lewis Howes?

  Fear of judgment.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, what if you don't, you know, we're all like little precious snowflakes at our core. So yeah, I just kept going. And he, like I kept living into myself and believing big things and doing all the work. And he was like, okay, I want in. And we went to UPW, got him Christmas.

• 41:17Lewis Howes?

  You went together?

• 41:17Speaker 01

  We went together and it changed our marriage. Like if you are looking at our social today and the things that we're doing. Couple of years ago, yeah. When all the stuff was going down, which we've talked about, the struggles that we've had there, but we went together. After I had that hard conversation with him.

• 41:34Lewis Howes?

  And what was the conversation you said with him?

• 41:35Speaker 01

  We said this on our podcast, you can like go find the episode, but I knew it was bad for a long time. He was really unhappy with his job and.

• 41:42Lewis Howes?

  And here's a guy who's a president at Disney, right?

• 41:45Speaker 01

  Massive job.

• 41:46Lewis Howes?

  Seven figures, has a salary.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  The dream, the dream. He has a dream job and he's super unhappy. And so he dealt with that by coming home every day, put headphones on, he started playing video games, drinking too much. You know, not showing up for the kids, not really being present with me. And simultaneously then being angry at me as I'm trying to like pursue a better version of myself. So for months I knew I needed to have a conversation with him, but I was like, maybe sick to my stomach. Like this is bad, right? I'm like, this is getting bad. Where I think started to see like, man, if this keeps going the way it's going, you're here and I'm growing. Like, we're not gonna be together. But how do you say that? Because I, the thing was-

• 42:27Lewis Howes?

  Been married for how long?

• 42:28Speaker 01

  Right now, I've been married for fourteen years, together for sixteen. So at this point, we've been together fourteen years when this is happening. And I'm thinking, mostly I didn't want to hurt his, hurt his feelings. That was the, I knew it was gonna crush him. I knew it was gonna hurt his heart so bad. He's also the most, like, our conflict resolution styles. I shut down, he will battle you to the death. Like, he will battle to the death. So I'm like, oh, gosh, like, if I try and talk to this guy about this huge thing, he's gonna, he's gonna debate me until I'm like, you know what, you're right. You know, which is what we had done for years.

• 43:03Lewis Howes?

  And you just pleased him, you're like, okay.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  Okay, you're right, I'm sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah. So for the, I'm like, I gotta do this. So I, for the first time for months, I thought about and planned it and prayed and thought, like, for months, I planned this conversation in my head. Like, how do I have this conversation with him in a way he can receive it? That's what I kept wondering, like, I don't wanna talk at him, I want him to be able to receive it. And so, we had gone on a family vacation that was really bad, really bad. He might have told you guys about it. Two weeks, he's completely, yeah.

• 43:35Lewis Howes?

  I remember this, he was supposed to be relaxed and it was like miserable.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  Shut down, not involved with the family at all, just like, not, he drank a lot, like, just bad. We've all been in situations like that, that was his time. And after that vacation, I'm like, we gotta have this conversation. So we come home, literally that day, put the kids to bed, and I go in the bedroom, I'm like, I need to talk to you. And I need you, I need so badly for you to please try and hear it, please don't be defensive. And it was about two hour conversation, and it was, he would kept getting fired up, and then we'd have to, like, talk himself back down. But the, the gist was, I said, if I keep growing and you stay the same, two years from now-

• 44:17Speaker 01

  We're not gonna be together. Because it's just impossible. The Bible says you're oxen can't, like in a marriage, you can't be unevenly yoked. Like, meaning like if one ox is bigger than the other, like the yoke does that, I don't even know if that's resonating with you. Like farm, four people who farm are like, I got you, Rach. But like, you can't have one person, one part of a relationship that's growing and changing and being the best version of themselves and someone else who's stagnant. It's not gonna work. Because one of us, or both of us, is gonna start to resent each other. And then it's gonna become something bigger than it is in this moment. So, we had this really hard conversation and he's devastated. He's devastated.

• 44:59Lewis Howes?

  You weren't saying, "I'm ending it." You were just saying, "In a couple of years."

• 45:02Speaker 01

  We have a problem. And I don't know how you are with your relationship, but I know with Dave and most guys I know, they wanna be their partner's hero.

• 45:11Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  You wanna be the hero.

• 45:13Lewis Howes?

  Otherwise, you have no meaning in that relationship.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  So for him to hear that like I was that unhappy was devastating for him. But it also was a wake-up call. And so, you know, hey, let's do the work. He started going to therapy. He did all of his stuff.

• 45:29Lewis Howes?

  So he was receptive.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  He was receptive and I got him, I got him UPW for Christmas and we went together and it was incredible. It was incredible. It's why we are so passionate about live events. Because I've had my life and he has had his life changed at a live event. Because you're immersed, right? Like when people go to your, you're in there. Like, it changes your way of thinking for a period of time and then you can kind of see the world a little bit differently than you did before. That was the thing for us. And we are who we are because of that season we walked through.

• 45:59Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that one conversation.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:01Lewis Howes?

  You may not be married right now.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  That is absolutely correct.

• 46:03Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. And we're like, the best.

• 46:07Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing. And he also left, what, four months ago? His dream job that he wasn't happy at? To come essentially work for his wife?

• 46:17Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah.

• 46:18Lewis Howes?

  To not be like the man at this big company and have this identity anymore, but to be like, "Oh, I work under my wife," essentially, right?

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Well, what's interesting is that in order for us to make this decision, I had to step down as CEO, which was very hard for my ego. Very hard.

• 46:35Lewis Howes?

  So he's the CEO.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  He's the CEO.

• 46:37Lewis Howes?

  Otherwise, he wouldn't have done it.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  He wouldn't have done it. And that was a conversation that we had. He was like, babe, if another company, and this was over many conversations, he was like, if another company tapped me right now to come and I would be tapped to be the CEO.

• 46:49Lewis Howes?

  Some other startup or this.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  And it's good that he did because I would have continued to try and run it.

• 46:57Lewis Howes?

  And do all of it.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  And do all of it. And the whole reason he's here is because I was struggling to do both. Like, I can't run the company and be the face of the company simultaneously.

• 47:05Lewis Howes?

  It's hard to be the talent and the...

• 47:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:07Lewis Howes?

  It's, I mean, I struggle with it.

• 47:08Speaker 01

  I know. I was like, I...

• 47:10Lewis Howes?

  But I don't have four kids. It's like, I do it all because I'm able to with the time I have.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Exactly. So we talked about it for a long time, and that was, I really didn't, I just loved like, oh, self-made CEO, female CEO. And then I had a girlfriend who said, have you ever just written down which parts of your job you actually like to do and see if they're the CEO job? And I did. And I was like, oh, holy crap. No, I don't want to be CEO. I don't want to figure out the finances. I don't want to hire people. I don't, what I care about is the content. I care about the way it looks. I care about the experience that you have. I want to write. I want to look at the visuals. Like, I'm the creative, chief creative officer. Yeah, I don't want to, ugh, go talking to the banker.

• 47:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And you were able, you were able to get it to where it's at with your skills, but to get to where you want it to be, you needed someone else to support who's got that experience.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:59Lewis Howes?

  And that, who's better suited for that role potentially.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that was what was hardest for me, honestly. I cried about it a lot, is I thought, he's going to come on. Like, I've pushed this for years to get it right to the pinnacle.

• 48:11Lewis Howes?

  And now, right when I'm about to take off, he's going to get all the credit.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  And people are going to give him credit. And I said that to some friends who run a company together, husband and wife. And it was like, oh, this is your pride talking. It's like, do you want to have a successful company? Or do you want like a pat on the back? What do you?

• 48:28Lewis Howes?

  I think, and I think the greatest leaders give everyone else the credit.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. I was like, oh, this is good. This is humbling for me.

• 48:35Lewis Howes?

  You'll get all the photos.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:37Lewis Howes?

  And you're going to get the credit.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's a good, it's been a really good lesson to learn. It's been, it feels like a very mature thing to have done.

• 48:43Lewis Howes?

  What's the biggest challenge of working with your spouse?

• 48:47Speaker 01

  I feel like

• 48:49Lewis Howes?

  Being married and working in business closely together.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  That part has been super fun. He is legitimately my best friend. We could hang out a hundred hours. Like, we have so much fun together. Like, it's dumb. And we were a little nervous about, oh, if we work together, are we gonna still like each other? And it's been incredible. Truthfully, it's been incredible.

• 49:07Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  Um, I think what is, I'll be super transparent. There is a part, there's a part of me that, I, I said something earlier, which might have like clued you into this, is it feels like I've had to work so hard to get to where I am. And he has, just, he would tell you the same thing. He is super charming and he's super smart and he's had a very easy road. Like, from childhood to where he is today, he's had a very easy road.

• 49:35Lewis Howes?

  He didn't work hard to get this job at a

• 49:36Speaker 01

  He's, he's worked very hard, but not the same way. But not, and he'd tell you that, like, if you don't have resources, if you don't have money, if you don't have an education, if you don't, and you're building a business in Los Angeles, you're gonna do that by the hustle, right?

• 49:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  And so, there is a part of me that's like, he, he skipped the line.

• 49:56Lewis Howes?

  He didn't go through the adversity.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  Yes, he like skipped the line. And I'm like, that's not fair. I mean, that sounds so, my gosh, like, that's so ego and terrible, but that's the truth. Is that's been the hardest part to navigate for me is all of a sudden, we're in this together.

• 50:12Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  All of a sudden, like, this is a silly thing, but it's not silly to me. We started doing a podcast together, you know, and we do a live stream together.

• 50:19Lewis Howes?

  When did that come out? When did, long?

• 50:20Speaker 01

  Couple of months ago.

• 50:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:22Lewis Howes?

  We got two podcasts in the top ten in the world.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:25Lewis Howes?

  Crazy.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  Crazy. We tape them like on our iPhone, which is the best. We do not have this fanciness yet. But we started doing a podcast together and immediately we started showing up in things and they'd be like, Rachel and Dave Hollis. And I was like, this is not a wedding invitation. I am Rachel Hollis. I've earned the right to my name by myself. Like Rachel Hollis and Dave Hollis. It's not Rachel, like, don't lump me in. Like, it was like, as soon as we started working together, it became, I don't know, I sound terrible. This sounds terrible, but this honesty, this is what I've struggled with.

• 50:55Lewis Howes?

  So what the struggle was, you didn't want to feel lumped in with your husband?

• 50:58Speaker 01

  We started going to book signings and people would ask him to sign the book, too.

• 51:01Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 51:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:02Lewis Howes?

  Even though he didn't write the book?

• 51:03Speaker 01

  That bothers me.

• 51:04Lewis Howes?

  Ooh, that would bother me, too.

• 51:05Speaker 01

  Because I'm like...

• 51:06Lewis Howes?

  Like, no, no, this is my book.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  I, what? Like, that...

• 51:10Lewis Howes?

  But he didn't help with any of this, did he?

• 51:11Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no. I mean, this is like, a lot of it is our story, but like, no. But that is, again...

• 51:17Lewis Howes?

  If your name's not on the book...

• 51:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, you shouldn't have signed it.

• 51:19Lewis Howes?

  You shouldn't.

• 51:20Speaker 01

  But it's also like, that is 100% my ego talking.

• 51:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:25Speaker 01

  I have to say, it's been like, a really hard season. I just am like, trying to get over it. It's like, how is this for me? Like, I'll be super honest.

• 51:33Lewis Howes?

  Share it.

• 51:33Speaker 01

  So y'all went to, on a fishing trip.

• 51:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and you weren't invited?

• 51:38Speaker 01

  I was not invited.

• 51:39Lewis Howes?

  Well, no, it was all men.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  I understand that it was men, but it was, oh, hey, Rachel, the biggest personal development people are all going on this trip. Does your husband want to go?

• 51:51Lewis Howes?

  Ooh.

• 51:55Speaker 01

  Like, that was a really interesting, the whole time, like, he knows this. It was like, the biggest personal self-therapy I've done in my entire life. Was like, okay, okay, how is this for me? How is this for me? What am I supposed to learn from this?

• 52:11Lewis Howes?

  That's why when I sent you like, a text or video, you didn't respond to like, he got back.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  Yes, because I was like, trying to process in real time. You know, we've talked about this, like, all of these, everything that's happened with this has been overwhelming. And so I have been praying for guidance from people in this field. Praying, like, oh, I wish that I could talk to someone, I wish that I, and you and Ed and Brendan have been so incredible to come around me and support me. But I'm like, I've, so I'm like, okay, Lord, how? Have I been praying for this and then you give it today? What? Truthfully, I'm at home with my four kids by myself going like, okay, why?

• 52:48Lewis Howes?

  I'm missing out on this.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  But, but then I'm like, okay, I can think of all kinds of reasons why. Maybe he needed it more than you did.

• 52:55Lewis Howes?

  Probably.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  Maybe he needed this community. Like you know how much he's needed a community of guys that can like lift him up and encourage him. Stop being so selfish. Maybe he needed this more than you did. Maybe you needed this. Maybe you needed to sit at home and be okay with this attention on him. Like, okay, so what? And how I would have managed that years ago, and I told him this when he came home, like how I would have managed it years ago is that I would have shut down. I wouldn't have responded to his texts. I would have been

• 53:24Lewis Howes?

  Passive aggressive.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Totally passive aggressive, manipulating his, I would have ruined the experience for him.

• 53:29Lewis Howes?

  Made him feel horrible the whole time.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Totally. What you already did, like most guys, if they have to leave a wife and kids are like, I'm sorry babe. So he already was feeling guilty about being gone so much. Like I had the opportunity to support him in that or make him feel like crap. And every time I was just like, oh my gosh, live your best life. Now I'd hang up the phone and cry, you know? I would. I told, that's the truth. I would. I really struggled with it. And by the time he got home, I was like in such a good place. Cause I just thought, okay, here, self-care, self-therapy right now.

• 54:02Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  Cause it's like, why?

• 54:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I think, you know, also you're going to be celebrated constantly. You're getting acknowledgement through every post you do, every podcast, every time you go somewhere, you're getting celebrated.

• 54:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:15Lewis Howes?

  You don't need that as well. You don't need all of it.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:17Lewis Howes?

  And you're going to need him to feel acknowledged and celebrated for the gifts he brings to the mission as well.

• 54:24Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 54:24Lewis Howes?

  And so you should be encouraging that

• 54:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:26Lewis Howes?

  to see the business thrive.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  Well, the thing was, it wasn't about acknowledgement. It was like, I was like, I just want like, y'all did, um, what's it called? Like you would like mastermind, you'd be like, oh babe, we're gonna like go in the living room and mastermind someone right now. I'm like, I wanna mastermind.

• 54:41Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 54:42Speaker 01

  Someone, you know, it's just, I want that connection and there aren't, it's me and Mel Robbins, like tell me the other women. Gabby, but every, Marie, but they're different. It's not the same thing and so I want a community with people. I wanna go shoot a gun.

• 54:57Lewis Howes?

  Create it.

• 54:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 54:59Lewis Howes?

  Call up Mel, she's amazing.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  I know.

• 55:01Lewis Howes?

  She's incredible to hang out with.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  I know.

• 55:02Lewis Howes?

  Have you connected with her yet?

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:04Lewis Howes?

  She's amazing.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I'm gonna like have a thing and I'm gonna invite men and women because.

• 55:10Lewis Howes?

  Do your thing.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  Shoot guns too, Brandon. He's gonna be so mad at me for saying this.

• 55:14Lewis Howes?

  Do your thing, that'd be amazing.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:17Lewis Howes?

  Wow, what do you think will be the biggest struggle you have over the next 12 months? Because, you know, here's the thing, he will face a big challenge at some point.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:25Lewis Howes?

  With this business.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:27Lewis Howes?

  Because every new season, something new is gonna happen. And as you continue to grow, I hope it keeps growing for you nonstop. But at some point, it's not gonna grow to the same level at some point.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 55:40Lewis Howes?

  It may go flat and back, you know, it may grow in different ways.

• 55:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:44Lewis Howes?

  And who knows when that's gonna be? Might be years.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:47Lewis Howes?

  But at that point, he's gonna have to face some challenges like now, what do I do to reinvent what we're creating?

• 55:53Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 55:54Lewis Howes?

  Or if the algorithm changes or this, and I don't know what I'm doing. Now I gotta learn all these things because.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  What do I think is gonna be the biggest challenge in the next? I think right now, it's really trying to navigate, how do you continue to show up for people? And not be overwhelmed by people?

• 56:13Lewis Howes?

  It's a lot.

• 56:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:15Lewis Howes?

  The more people that want your time, attention.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:17Lewis Howes?

  Need you, you got four kids, you got a husband, a marriage, you got a team, you've got millions of people.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, when I feel overwhelmed, my gut is like, go hide away. And it's so funny, all of you, all these guys are like, don't listen to that instinct. Ed said this to me, he's like, you need people who are further along than you. So they can look back at where you are and tell you that you're safe. Like you're okay, you're safe, you're on solid ground, like don't be freaked out, just keep, stay here, stay with it. Keep doing the work. Because when I'm like at the grocery store with my kids and my six year old's having a meltdown about wanting. Cookies I won't give him and he's screaming and someone comes up and they're like, can I just get a quick selfie? Like that's over, that's overwhelming.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  And so trying to, trying to navigate that is hard because former people pleaser, I want to say yes to everybody. I want to give you all the pictures. I want to do all the things. And I don't ever want to start to resent the place that this success has gotten me. I realize in retrospect that I was overwhelmed by everything that was happening with the book because it surpassed anything I could imagine. I had always had these big lofty dreams for myself, but I never imagined something like this. And so just, just trying to navigate that now, which sounds like, it sounds obnoxious. Like I feel like if I heard someone saying like, oh, it's hard to manage, you know, people asking you for an autograph, I'd be like, shut up, go cry somewhere else.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  But it's weird. It's weird. And the thing is, I know you have this too. People don't come up and say, hi, I like your book.

• 57:56Lewis Howes?

  They tell your whole life story and how you changed your life.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  Because this is, there's a lot of hard things in this book. And so they want to tell you their hard thing. And if I'm at the grocery store with a six year old and you're telling me about your divorce, that feels like I don't know how to have boundaries and I, yeah.

• 58:13Lewis Howes?

  It's a lot of energy.

• 58:14Speaker 01

  It's a lot of energy.

• 58:15Lewis Howes?

  You're taking on a five minute story and

• 58:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:18Lewis Howes?

  It's hard to just clear that space in your heart right away.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  But I want to keep, for me, I want to keep coming back to the why, like why are you here? What do you, like if you can just keep coming back to that thing. And that picture you showed me earlier was that Brooke, like was that Juliana Houghs? Where was all you guys?

• 58:34Lewis Howes?

  Brooks.

• 58:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, Brooks, yeah. So I was listening to him on a podcast and he said, not that I haven't heard this before, but it was something about that day that I like needed to hear those words. He was like, what's your why? Like, why are you here? Why are you on this planet? Like what gets you out of bed in the morning? And in this season, I just needed, I need to remember like, oh yeah, that's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing. It's not to sell books. It's not to be on lists. It's not like, I want to be a better version of myself every day. Like you, you were talking earlier about your values. My greatest value is growth. It's the greatest thing I could hope for in my life. I want to be a better mom, better wife, better boss, better writer, better, every way that I show up, I want to be better, just by a little bit, every single day.

• 59:15Speaker 01

  And my mission is to give women the tools and the opportunity to understand that they are also capable of that. So. By an inch or a mile, like the next book, we're saying this earlier, like, there's no way, like this is a, you get a once in a lifetime, this is crazy. The next book, maybe 10 people are gonna buy it. But if those 10 people get something out of it, then I have accomplished my life's mission.

• 59:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  So I just wanna keep coming back to that why. And even if it's at the grocery store. And it's like, okay, in this moment, the way that I can show up for this woman.

• 59:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  Is to talk her through this in the cracker aisle. That's what I'm gonna do.

• 59:55Lewis Howes?

  The gluten free.

• 59:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, the gluten free.

• 59:56Lewis Howes?

  What do you think you'd be doing if this sold 20,000 copies, you grew 20,000 followers over the last year? And didn't hit the list, what would you be doing and how would you be feeling about yourself? If it didn't blow up?

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  Oh, I think the exact same way that I am right now. Yeah, I don't think this, this has not adjusted my perception of myself at all.

• 1:00:19Lewis Howes?

  Let's say it bombed and people are like, eh, I don't get it, I don't like it. Would you write another book?

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I'd always write, writing is my thing. Writing is, uh, I feel like it's a gift, if you can create anything, that's a gift and you should do it just because you can. So I've been writing since I was a little girl and I love that there are people who wanna read it. But even if people didn't like this one, I'd just hope that they'd like something else or I'd go back to fiction or. Yeah, I'm not writing, I'm not writing, like I hope that it resonates, but that's not why I'm writing. I'm grateful for the success of the book, honestly, because I get to speak on bigger stages now and I really like speaking, I like teaching in a, in a group setting that, that really lights my heart on fire. So that's probably the biggest change, is that I get to do that on a more massive scale.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  But, um, I'd be the same, I'd be the same person. Yeah. I mean, I still drive a Mini Cooper. I still shop at Target. I don't, I'm trying to think of what would be different. About some really nice booties for winter, like some really.

• 1:01:27Lewis Howes?

  Shoes?

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, Chloe, Chloe booties I bought, that was like a big splurge for me, but other than that.

• 1:01:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  I feel like it's, I'm the same.

• 1:01:33Lewis Howes?

  Same person, yeah.

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  Same O G.

• 1:01:34Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. And what do you think is the, once women know that they are going to, that they have the ability to own their self-worth? And they have dreams bigger than what other people want them to do. What's the next challenge for them?

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  How? I mean, I feel like you set me up like as if you know the next book and you're being a friend to me right now. But that was the number one question I got when I was writing this was like, or when this came out was like, okay, how though? You tell me to pursue something more for myself, but how? So the next book is, it's called Girl, Stop Apologizing. It's like, stop apologizing for who you are. The tagline is a shame-free guide for embracing and achieving your goals. Like, how do you achieve something? So I was able to look at my life, like professionally and personally, whether it was running a marathon or building a business or getting a book deal. And I, it was all the same roadmap. So maybe you're the same way.

• 1:02:31Speaker 01

  Maybe this is not like new, but this is how I did it was I would start with a goal and I would work backwards and would break it down into manageable bite-sized pieces. And every single time I got to a new spot in the map and I didn't know how to achieve something, I did the same three things to try and get me uncluttered and then I'd move forward and I kept moving forward. That's the question people always want to know is like, okay, I'm in, but how? I mean, how do I do that without feeling sorry about it? Because so many moms especially have the desire, but they like feel so terrible that them pursuing something for themselves means that their partner has to watch the kids. Or means that they're gonna miss, you know, their friends are like, we never see you anymore. You don't come out with us anymore.

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  You know, you sort of let people talk you into giving up on the goal that you had for yourself. Which is crazy because man, those other people are not the ones who are gonna have to live with regret for the rest of their lives. Your friends are not the ones who are gonna watch everyone else go on family vacation and you can't afford to take your kids anywhere. The other people aren't gonna have to live with the choice that you made, but you allow them to talk you into doing something you didn't want to do. I heard a pastor say years ago, like, don't let someone in the cheap seats have an expensive opinion in your life. Like, don't let someone who's not in the ring get to decide who you are and what you get to be.

• 1:03:54Lewis Howes?

  Isn't it funny that one, two, or three people can decide our life?

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:03:59Lewis Howes?

  Based on what they want us to do?

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:01Lewis Howes?

  Or what they think we should do? And we hold on to that judgment or people pleasing so much?

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:07Lewis Howes?

  That will allow one person's opinion of us. Hold us back forever.

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:13Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy how powerful someone's opinion of us influences us.

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:19Lewis Howes?

  What's cool on the flip side is that when we hold on to someone's belief about us, when no one else believes in us, but that one person says, no, I actually think you can do this.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:29Lewis Howes?

  And we get to hold on to that idea. And we stick with that.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:33Lewis Howes?

  And then we pursue our dreams. That's also a really cool thing.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  I feel like that's like the sports analogy sort of coming out with you. I love that. I don't feel like I had that in my life.

• 1:04:43Lewis Howes?

  No one believed in you or said you can do this?

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  Well, I met my husband when I was nineteen and he's always been a cheerleader for me.

• 1:04:51Lewis Howes?

  That's right.

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  But I think that my dreams actually scared him more than made him. He'd be like, what babe? You wanna do what? But I did hear someone say, I'm like, I always quote podcasts and like, I'm probably gonna quote your podcast to you on accent right now. But I heard someone say recently, like, sometimes having an anti-hero is just as powerful as having a hero. So I think a lot of what propelled me was growing up and thinking, I don't wanna be like this. I don't want this life. I don't want these things. And that propelled me to like, prove that I wasn't. So I only say that because if there's someone listening right now who thinks, yeah, I wish I had someone to speak that truth and belief into me, but I don't. I think that you can still, sometimes like.

• 1:05:36Lewis Howes?

  People you don't wanna be like.

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:05:38Lewis Howes?

  Models that you don't appreciate.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:40Lewis Howes?

  It's like dating a bunch of people and be like, okay, these are all the types of people I don't wanna be with.

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  I definitely don't wanna be with that kind of person.

• 1:05:45Lewis Howes?

  So now I know and let me go find the other path.

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:05:49Lewis Howes?

  Okay, so you got the Rise Podcast, which is like the top 10 in the world. You've got Rise Together Podcast, which is with you and Dave, and you talk about.

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  All the things.

• 1:05:58Lewis Howes?

  Sex and nipples and back fat and.

• 1:06:01Speaker 01

  All the things.

• 1:06:02Lewis Howes?

  When kids are jumping in your bed and you're all naked and you know, how do you manage?

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:07Lewis Howes?

  Running a business together and how do you manage the tough conversations and conflict resolution and.

• 1:06:11Speaker 01

  How do you be intentional with having an incredible relationship? Cause we just didn't feel like there were a lot of conversations about that and any of the success that you see with the book or anything, honestly, for anyone who's in business and you're like, man, I wish, like, what's the edge? Everything that you see that we're doing that's successful is our fans have asked for something and we've created it.

• 1:06:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's my life too.

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, right. You're in it every day. So you're talking to them every day. You know what they love. You know, and if you're like, man, 57 people have asked us the same question. Well, shoot, I should probably do a podcast about that.

• 1:06:46Lewis Howes?

  Let's write a book about this.

• 1:06:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly right. So with the Couples Podcast, it was just, we kept getting so many questions. We were like, oh, let's answer these.

• 1:06:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, so Rise Together Podcast, go subscribe.

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:06:56Lewis Howes?

  Rise Podcast.

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:06:58Lewis Howes?

  The book, Girl, Wash Your Face.

• 1:07:00Speaker 01

  Girl, Wash Your Face. We got into all the things. I should have suspected this with you.

• 1:07:04Lewis Howes?

  Over a million copies sold and growing faster and faster every week, which is crazy and inspiring. You got your big events coming up. What's the events?

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  So we actually have our first Couples Event, which is this weekend in Austin. So I know, like, oh, please let us.

• 1:07:20Lewis Howes?

  It's called Rise Together.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  It's called Rise Together. And then our big, our massive conference, Women's Conference is in Minneapolis in June.

• 1:07:28Lewis Howes?

  For women only?

• 1:07:29Speaker 01

  Women only.

• 1:07:29Lewis Howes?

  Men cannot buy tickets.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  We never turn anyone away, but we've never had a dude.

• 1:07:33Lewis Howes?

  It's all speaking for women.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  We're gonna talk about like, you know, I'm gonna make jokes that are not gonna be for you. So yeah, so it is for, it is for the ladies. Yeah.

• 1:07:43Lewis Howes?

  Okay, that's in Minneapolis.

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  That's in Minneapolis.

• 1:07:45Lewis Howes?

  Where can they learn about all of this?

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  You can, the easiest way is go follow at let'srise.co on Instagram. That's where all of our event stuff comes up and you can just get inspirational quotes and the whole thing. But you can find out events as soon as they're ready to go.

• 1:07:58Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool. And rachelhollis.com?

• 1:08:00Speaker 01

  Miss Rachel Hollis. Oh, Miss Rachel Hollis on Instagram and missrachelhollis.com.

• 1:08:05Lewis Howes?

  That's where all the information is too.

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  That's all the info, yeah.

• 1:08:08Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. Or you can get the book online, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, all that stuff. And you hang out the most where? Facebook, Instagram?

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, Instagram's my favorite.

• 1:08:16Lewis Howes?

  And you do like a morning live show every single day?

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  We do a live every single weekday morning at 8 a.m. Central. Yeah. And again, that was just like, the audience loved it. And gosh, we'll do about 5,000 or 6,000 people live and then 150,000 people watch it every day, which is dumb for something.

• 1:08:32Lewis Howes?

  100,000 people every day watching.

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  Every day.

• 1:08:34Lewis Howes?

  5,000, 6,000 live?

• 1:08:36Speaker 01

  5,000 or 6,000.

• 1:08:37Lewis Howes?

  And then they just keep watching throughout the day?

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  And they just keep watching.

• 1:08:39Lewis Howes?

  Crazy.

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  So, I mean, that's why people are like, why do you do it every day? I'm like, because.

• 1:08:43Lewis Howes?

  It's working right now.

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  It's working. Exactly.

• 1:08:45Lewis Howes?

  But if like 5,000 people watch after a while, then maybe it's done.

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, then you just sort of. That is something, I think, in the social media space that people really miss. This is one of the reasons I love Gary Vee, is that he is the king of, you can't be romantic about how you get the message out. Yeah, five years ago, everybody saw everything on Facebook. That isn't the case anymore.

• 1:09:05Lewis Howes?

  You gotta reinvent.

• 1:09:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta reinvent. And what's working now might not work in six months. And if you're crying about it, you're gonna miss the opportunity. A guy at the airport the other day was asking me, like, he saw me on the book. He's like, "How are you?" You know? And I said, "Well, social media is a huge thing." He's like, "I'm older, you know, I can't be on social, I'm older." And I was like, "Did you know how to drive a car before you? You taught yourself because it was a tool. Social media is also a tool. Stop saying that you don't know how to do something because you're old." Like, this is from your podcast, so I'm gonna repeat something back to you. But it was, I think it was, what's the doctor, Dispenza?

• 1:09:39Lewis Howes?

  Joe Dispenza, he's amazing.

• 1:09:41Speaker 01

  I love him. And he said, "In an age of this much free information, ignorance is a choice."

• 1:09:48Lewis Howes?

  It is.

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  And I was like, "Oh, that's so good!"

• 1:09:51Lewis Howes?

  Because it was like 10 years ago, people were like, "Now you have the internet, so you can Google stuff and you can figure it out." But now it's like, a decade has gone by, there's more information that's being created. You can YouTube tutorial anything.

• 1:10:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:03Lewis Howes?

  Learn anything for free, essentially.

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:05Lewis Howes?

  If you have to dig a lot, it's a choice for sure.

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. Every single thing that you wanna know how to do right now exists on the internet or at your local library for free.

• 1:10:14Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. Maybe if you don't have the internet, then that's...

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:17Lewis Howes?

  If you can't get to it somehow, then maybe that's...

• 1:10:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's your rationale, but go to the library.

• 1:10:22Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, the free internet, yes. It's so true. All right, well, everyone's gonna go get the book. I'm sure a lot of people already have it. They're gonna follow you on Instagram, download your podcast, go to your events, all these things.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:34Lewis Howes?

  I got two final questions.

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:36Lewis Howes?

  One is called "Three Truths," and I'm curious, do you know what the question is?

• 1:10:40Speaker 01

  Yes, and the thing is, I'm like having a heart attack in my heart because you know how many times in my life I have imagined, like, I'm listening to your podcast for years and you ask people this. I'm like, "What am I gonna say when Lewis asks me this question?" And holy crap, I forgot to prepare it. I really did. So wait, ask me, ask me...

• 1:10:56Lewis Howes?

  So imagine it's your last day on Earth. You choose the day.

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  And I get to pick three things that they hold on to.

• 1:11:02Lewis Howes?

  Three lessons that you would leave behind to the world because you have to take all of your content and books and documentaries with you so they don't have access to it anymore. But you've achieved everything you wanted, and these are the three things that you would leave behind, the three lessons or truths.

• 1:11:18Speaker 01

  So the first one is what I feel like is my life's mission, which is, I say it's for women, but honestly, it's for anybody. You are in control. You are in control of what happens next. You choose a good life, you choose a bad life, you choose your perception. You are in control of this. And if you are unhappy, that's on you. That's the core of this book is, gosh, like if you, if you don't like something, change it. If you don't know something, learn it. If you don't have the resources, get them. If you'd like, I am a living example of someone who's walked through trauma and horrible, hard things. And like, I am here and I am thriving because I figured it out.

• 1:12:03Speaker 01

  So that's the first thing. The second thing that I would say, and I like cannot, I can't stress this enough, and Dave hates when I say it, because he's like, it sounds so negative. But I am not special. I am not special. Because too many women are gonna watch this and they're gonna see my social media numbers, or they're gonna hear about this book, or they see me speak, and they think that there's something special about me. That I'm wired in a different way, or that I have special genes, or I had, no. I just kept working. I have to say it over and over and over, because I do not want anybody to have an excuse. I don't want them to talk it out because they're comparing, they're beginning with my middle. This is a decade of work to get to where I am right now.

• 1:12:47Speaker 01

  I posted this the other day, like 10 years ago, 10 years ago, I was going and speaking at like MOPS groups, which is Mothers of Preschoolers. You don't know what that is. I was speaking at MOPS groups and like the local senior citizen home, and I would like shake, my hands would shake, I'd be so, my, you know, with like sweating through your clothes. I was so terrible at public speaking, but I really wanted to be a good public speaker. I feel like you've talked about this too. Like, we suck at first, but I just kept going. I just really believed that I could have anything that I wanted if I was willing to work for it. So if you take nothing else away from my work on this planet or my time with you, let it be that. I am not special. I have just worked really, really hard.

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  The third thing, if I could leave anything behind.

• 1:13:38Speaker 01

  I guess because it's on my heart right now is that you are allowed to have a dream and a hope for your life, even if it doesn't make sense to anybody else. You're allowed to want something, you're allowed to pursue something because it makes your heart come alive. And it doesn't matter if your mom understands it, or your boyfriend, or your wife, or your kids, it doesn't matter that it makes sense to anybody else, it only matters that it makes you come alive. Like, I just can't fathom anything worse than going through the rest of your life on this planet and not, like, listening to that spark, or allowing yourself to be lit on fire for this thing that brings you joy because you were worried about someone else's opinion

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  of you. So, not only are you allowed to have that, but I think you should want to have something more for your life.

• 1:14:32Lewis Howes?

  Made for more.

• 1:14:33Speaker 01

  Made for more.

• 1:14:34Lewis Howes?

  That's it, I love it. Well, I gotta acknowledge you for a moment, Rachel, for the consistent work that you've put out in the world for the last decade and beyond, for sticking through the fire with your husband and having the challenging conversations, which I think a lot of people don't have, and then they live settling for something they don't want. And also for being an incredible example of how to be a great mother while running the things that you love and following your dreams, because I think there aren't enough mothers who are doing what you are doing, and it's an amazing example. So, I acknowledge you for all those things.

• 1:15:11Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:15:12Lewis Howes?

  Of course. Final question is, what is your definition of greatness?

• 1:15:15Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh, how did I not prepare these? My definition of greatness is just being a little bit better every day. That's all, that's all I want out of my life. That's all I could hope for, for my kids, or my marriage, or my business, is just every single day, we move a little bit closer to a better version of ourselves. It's the greatest thing I can imagine.

• 1:15:40Lewis Howes?

  Rachel Hollis, thank you. Appreciate it.

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  Thank you, brother.

• 1:15:47Lewis Howes?

  There you have it my friends, what a powerful interview. If you loved this one, if you enjoyed it, if you got some value out of it, make sure to send me a message on Instagram story right now. Tag me @lewishouse and tag @msrachelpaulis. And let us know what you think over on your Instagram story. We'd love to hear from you and love to know the part that you enjoyed the most. Share it with your friends, lewishouse.com/697. Post it out on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, all the places, as I want to make sure that we get this message far and wide. "You have the power my friends to change your life in any moment." Richard Branson said it best. "Every success story is a tale of constant adaptation, revision, and change." It doesn't matter what you're going through right now.

• 1:16:32Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't matter how bad you have it, or how much you feel stuck. You have the power, in any moment, to start changing the way you think. And when you change the way you think, you can structure your life to start changing the way you act. And when you start changing the way you act and the decisions you make, you can start building better habits, working towards goals, getting unstuck in the situation you're in right now. You have the opportunity to do incredible, great things. It's all about building the belief in yourself through repetition, and constant adaptation, revision, and change. I love you so very much, and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.