Oti Mabuse

In Strictly fabulous news, this week we’re joined by dance goddess, Oti Mabuse! Oti was beloved on Strictly Come Dancing in the UK, but she is also now head judge on the Irish version Dancing With the Stars - on top of that she is an author, presenter, podcaster and this week she has announced the wonderful news that she is pregnant with her second child! We heard all about Oti growing up in Pretoria and the delicious South African food her family would cook, being a destined dancer from age 4, competing in Blackpool from age 11, being best mates with gorgeous friend of the podcast Johannes Radebe, having more than double the invited guests turn up to her wedding, eating shark in Iceland, plus we discover the real meaning behind the name Oti! Thanks for popping over Oti, we can’t wait to try a traditional ’Seven Colours’ dish when we see you next. Oti’s latest book ‘Slow Burn’ is out now. Listen & watch Table Manners here - https://tablemanners.komi.io/ Follow Table Manners on: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tablemannerspodcast/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@tablemannerspodcast Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/tablemannerspodcast YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@TableMannersPodcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  State Fair food is getting smaller and pricier.

• 0:03Speaker 01

  We'll have room for fried cookies.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  Okay, you never overspend on food. What's your deal?

• 0:08Speaker 02

  What's his deal? He went to Metro and got $450 in value on the new Samsung Galaxy A37 5G for free and no activation fees.

• 0:16Speaker 00

  Free phone? Oh, sign me up.

• 0:19Speaker 02

  Get that more for your money feeling, only on Metro by T-Mobile.

• 0:22Speaker 03

  Bring your number and activate $40 period plan. $450 based on device discount waived activation fee. Not available if with Metro or T-Mobile in the past 180 days.

• 0:35Jessie Ware?

  Hello and welcome to Tobin Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here on a... Well, there was just thunderstorms, but now it's blue sky. Make your mind up, London.

• 0:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's kind of a sunny day.

• 0:46Jessie Ware?

  How are you, Mum?

• 0:48Speaker 05

  I'm okay, darling.

• 0:48Jessie Ware?

  I was gonna wear a lemon shirt. And I'm glad that I didn't come down in the same outfit as you today.

• 0:54Speaker 05

  Oh, well, one in lemon.

• 0:56Jessie Ware?

  It's very strange.

• 0:57Speaker 05

  It's very... Sorry. Do you think it's telepathic?

• 0:59Jessie Ware?

  I don't know. Does anyone else sync their clothes with their parents? Maybe you can let us know, because this happens a lot.

• 1:09Speaker 05

  Does your daughter sync with you? No.

• 1:11Jessie Ware?

  No, because I'm not wearing horse t-shirts or...

• 1:14Speaker 05

  Or shorts.

• 1:16Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, I'm definitely not wearing them batty riders, I tell you that she's wearing. Do you know who I sync with? Who? My twin brother. Oh. Always in that way, the same colour. Producer Alice, can you get on the mic quickly, please? So you've just said... Go on. I always sync with my twin brother. I mean, that kind of makes sense to me, that you're twins. You're like genetically, you know, very...

• 1:38Speaker 05

  Combined.

• 1:38Jessie Ware?

  Combined. But I... I mean, yeah, you're my mum.

• 1:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:42Jessie Ware?

  And you're very close. That's very... Are you very close with your brother? Yeah. Oh, okay.

• 1:46Speaker 05

  But maybe it's because I've got such exceptional taste that you've inherited that from me.

• 1:51Jessie Ware?

  Maybe it is.

• 1:52Speaker 05

  Maybe.

• 1:53Jessie Ware?

  Maybe I will be shopping in Wallace and Faze and East and M and actually I already shop in M and S.

• 1:59Speaker 05

  Sahara now.

• 2:00Jessie Ware?

  Sahara, okay. We have Otie Mabuse on the podcast today and we're both really excited because we're so fond of her.

• 2:08Speaker 05

  So fond of her, long time admirer of her dancing and her stature and her wonderfulness.

• 2:15Jessie Ware?

  She's a star. She's, I think, the only dancer to win consecutive Stricklys. She's amazing. She's now a writer. She's written this book called Slow Burn, which is, sounds really sexy and gorgeous about two dancers that have a past. And she's also gone and done this trip back to South Africa with Reverend Richard Coles.

• 2:40Speaker 05

  How interesting.

• 2:42Jessie Ware?

  I wonder how they became friends. Was it through Strictly?

• 2:44Speaker 05

  Possibly, because he was on Strictly, although he went very early on.

• 2:48Jessie Ware?

  And yeah, she's coming on today to talk about the book, to talk about the documentary. I think she's just got some new, very, very exciting news that she's just announced to the world. So we will hear from her. And I am cooking.

• 3:02Speaker 05

  What have you done?

• 3:03Jessie Ware?

  I'm doing something that I think I haven't done for a few seasons because I think the last time I did it was with Rose Matafeo. Alison Roman, who we do a lot of on this podcast, it's her slow roasted chicken with tomatoes and oregano. And you basically cook a bird for, on a lower heat for two and a half to three hours. Hold on, how long has it been on? Okay, it's been on for over two and a half hours. But you put loads of tomatoes in there, two garlic bulbs that you cut in half, and then fennel seeds. And then you add at the end, when it's resting, you add a bit of vinegar.

• 3:39Speaker 05

  Have we got bread for dunking?

• 3:41Jessie Ware?

  We've got bread for dunking from, I mean, people that are in South East London will know about the Lirisham Italian Deli.

• 3:46Speaker 05

  Never ever heard of it.

• 3:47Jessie Ware?

  It's the best. When I was writing my first record with David Kumu, he lived right around the corner and we'd go there and get these beautiful sandwiches and like espressos and stuff. Anyway, it's such a gorgeous deli and you're supposed to toast the bread.

• 3:58Speaker 05

  No, no, no.

• 3:59Jessie Ware?

  Alison, I love you. You know I. Worship the church of answer Roman, but I'm just gonna use nice fresh bread.

• 4:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 4:05Jessie Ware?

  And so you just dip. And then I've just got, uh, you know, Alison's go to herb salad. You put any herbs that you've got in the fridge with lettuce.

• 4:12Speaker 05

  Did you appreciate all the herbs I sent, gave you?

• 4:15Jessie Ware?

  Mum, no, I already had herbs, so thank you. So I'm just gonna have to have herb salad for the next year.

• 4:20Speaker 05

  Okay, good.

• 4:20Jessie Ware?

  Um, with lemon and olive oil, and then you've done pudding.

• 4:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, I've made a mango and passion fruit cheesecake.

• 4:28Jessie Ware?

  Mmm. Um, right, Otimabusi coming up on Table manners.

• 4:42Jessie Ware?

  Otimabusi, you're here, looking glamorous, fabulous. Beautiful. You've just had a bag of crisps?

• 4:48Speaker 06

  Yes, I did.

• 4:49Jessie Ware?

  And you're telling me all about the Irish crisps?

• 4:51Speaker 06

  I, I know.

• 4:51Jessie Ware?

  Come on, hit me.

• 4:52Speaker 06

  I'm so obsessed with them. I'm obsessed with potatoes in Ireland, just potatoes, right?

• 4:57Jessie Ware?

  Is this from working on Dancing with the Stars?

• 5:00Speaker 06

  Yes, so they have potato bread, they like, they've got incredible butter, it's called like Carri- Carri-.

• 5:06Jessie Ware?

  Carrigold.

• 5:07Speaker 06

  Oh, my god.

• 5:08Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, it's great.

• 5:09Speaker 06

  It's like drinking milk.

• 5:10Jessie Ware?

  It is good.

• 5:11Speaker 06

  And they have crisps. I love O'Donnell's. They are like my favourite. But everyone there does love potatoes.

• 5:18Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 5:19Speaker 06

  And it's like their national, like it's their heart.

• 5:21Jessie Ware?

  National crisps.

• 5:22Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's like.

• 5:23Jessie Ware?

  What's the difference between an O'Donnell's and then Tato?

• 5:27Speaker 06

  I, no, it's, it's.

• 5:28Jessie Ware?

  Like, thicker?

• 5:30Speaker 06

  It's thicker, it's a different cut as well. I don't, I kinda like the flavour to explode at me. And so they really do that.

• 5:39Jessie Ware?

  What flavour did you just have?

• 5:40Speaker 06

  Uh, um, salt and vinegar.

• 5:42Jessie Ware?

  The best.

• 5:42Speaker 06

  That's the only one I can have right now.

• 5:44Jessie Ware?

  What?

• 5:45Speaker 05

  Absolute worst.

• 5:46Speaker 06

  What's your favourite?

• 5:47Speaker 05

  Cheese and onion.

• 5:48Speaker 06

  No!

• 5:49Jessie Ware?

  No, no.

• 5:50Speaker 05

  I can't breathe.

• 5:51Jessie Ware?

  No, I'll do cheese and onion when I'm on my own, in the privacy of my own home and I'm not socialising.

• 5:56Speaker 05

  Well, I'm just not kissing anyone. Well, there you go.

• 5:59Speaker 06

  So they have really good ones. Tato's have also really good ones. And I do think it's cheese and onion that they like, I'm not sure. But it's like a blue one. And then they are Keog's.

• 6:09Jessie Ware?

  Dogs.

• 6:09Speaker 06

  Which are, they taste more potatoey than flavour, but but all of them are really good, no MSGs in them. So the flavours are like more natural.

• 6:18Jessie Ware?

  Did you realise you were such a potato lover?

• 6:20Speaker 06

  No, until I went to Ireland, no.

• 6:23Jessie Ware?

  So can you find your potato cakes in London, I mean in the UK now?

• 6:27Speaker 06

  No, I have to go to Ireland and I stuck and the nice thing about McDonald's is that they'll send me boxes.

• 6:33Jessie Ware?

  Great.

• 6:34Speaker 06

  So I'll just pack loads of them in my bag. I think I had like two packets. I'll just pack loads in my bag as a snack and then I'll just eat them.

• 6:42Jessie Ware?

  Well, I guess that leads us on to rate your carb.

• 6:44Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 6:45Jessie Ware?

  Cause we could, okay, so potatoes, pasta, this is Phil Wang's favourite game, by the way, we did not invent this. Potato, pasta, rice, bread, noodles.

• 6:55Speaker 06

  In in.

• 6:55Jessie Ware?

  In order of favourite, it's potato at the top.

• 6:58Speaker 06

  Potato is number one. I can eat all versions of potato.

• 7:01Jessie Ware?

  Fine.

• 7:01Speaker 06

  Mashed, crisp, potato, like, oh, I love potatoes. My least favourite, I would say noodles, so that would go five.

• 7:09Speaker 05

  Oh, really?

• 7:10Speaker 06

  Oh, don't judge me, am I being kicked off?

• 7:13Speaker 05

  It was his number one, but of these reasons.

• 7:16Jessie Ware?

  Was it his number one?

• 7:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, of course it was. He comes from Malaysia, darling.

• 7:19Speaker 06

  Don't they carry like parasites?

• 7:22Jessie Ware?

  Do they?

• 7:23Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, well, like the noodles in the pack, I'm thinking. You know, I'm thinking those two minute, I don't want any breads, but those two minute ones with flavours, yeah, they have parasites in them, they're not.

• 7:35Jessie Ware?

  Are you very into your health?

• 7:37Speaker 06

  No, my husband is East European and basically they just eat everything from the ground.

• 7:41Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 7:42Speaker 06

  And so anything in a packet that is like full of colour and full of flavour, he's like, no, I'm not putting in my body.

• 7:48Jessie Ware?

  So what's your favourite Romanian dish that he cooks you?

• 7:51Speaker 06

  He doesn't cook it for me, his his mother does it and it's called sarmale. And it's basically, it's delicious. It is, um.

• 8:01Speaker 06

  Chopped onions, chopped garlic in mince meat and they wrap it around a cabbage leaf.

• 8:07Speaker 06

  And then they let it roast for like a couple of hours and then you can have it with like sour cream or yogurt.

• 8:13Jessie Ware?

  Never tomato based.

• 8:15Speaker 06

  Ah, you can make the sauce out of tomato, but that I think makes it more Italian then. Um, so the East European side of the world, they wouldn't do that.

• 8:24Speaker 05

  Does she live near you?

• 8:25Speaker 06

  No, she lives in East Europe, in Romania.

• 8:28Speaker 05

  Come to cook these cabbages?

• 8:29Speaker 06

  Um, every two, three months. Yeah, yeah. And the nice thing about them is that she does them in like lunch boxes and then you can freeze them.

• 8:39Speaker 05

  Oh, wow.

• 8:39Speaker 06

  And then when I'm like, I'm too tired, I'll just go to the freezer and then I'll just take two or three and then I make them for my husband. He loves it. They eat a lot in Romania. They have like four cost meals. It's soup, then it's cold meats. Then it's your sarmale or your main dish and then it's dessert.

• 8:58Speaker 05

  What are the Romanian desserts like?

• 9:01Speaker 06

  Cakes.

• 9:02Speaker 05

  Lots of cakes.

• 9:03Speaker 06

  Lots of cakes, like, but fruit cakes. So, or they'll have, so we'll have a mince pie with meat in it. They would have it with jam and some cream in it. So I had to learn to make that, cause he doesn't like sweet things. He's very specific. Um, yeah, so it will be maybe chocolate cake, but like a little bit of chocolate or it would be cocoa with something that looks like chocolate.

• 9:26Speaker 05

  Did he take you out for dinner on your first date?

• 9:29Speaker 06

  No, we went to dance practice.

• 9:33Jessie Ware?

  It's not romantic.

• 9:35Speaker 05

  And what attracted you to her?

• 9:37Speaker 06

  Um, oh gosh, so many things, so many things.

• 9:41Speaker 05

  Is he a Latin dancer?

• 9:43Jessie Ware?

  So, okay, we'll, we'll get back to the first, the Slow Burn.

• 9:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 9:48Jessie Ware?

  The book is about a Latin, a sexy Latin dancer.

• 9:51Speaker 06

  Not him. It's not about him. It's ju- yeah, no, it's not.

• 9:56Jessie Ware?

  Your book, Slow Burn. Is to tell the people about what what it's about. It's very racy, kind of exciting, sexy, gorgeous.

• 10:04Speaker 06

  It's a spicy romance about a spicy romance. I love that genre, um about a couple. So the guy is an Italian world dance champion, very macho, you know, leading man.

• 10:17Jessie Ware?

  Vito?

• 10:18Speaker 06

  No, not Vito, no. The opposite of Vito, I would say. Vito is very sweet.

• 10:24Jessie Ware?

  Sweet.

• 10:24Speaker 06

  Yeah, he's like a puppy.

• 10:26Jessie Ware?

  Okay, so are we going for the one that got kicked off, Giovanni?

• 10:28Speaker 06

  No, we're not going for it. There's no one on Strictly.

• 10:31Jessie Ware?

  Okay, fine, okay.

• 10:33Speaker 06

  Or we could say it's a combination of both of them.

• 10:35Jessie Ware?

  Fair enough.

• 10:35Speaker 06

  But it's no one. Actually, this person has not been on television, thank goodness for that. But um very macho, very leading man, very this is my way, and has always been a winner and very toxic in his way.

• 10:48Jessie Ware?

  Good bottom?

• 10:49Speaker 06

  Very good bottom.

• 10:51Jessie Ware?

  Essential for, essential for Latin.

• 10:54Speaker 06

  Skinny hair.

• 10:55Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 10:56Speaker 06

  Um mama's boy, very big mama's boy. And then he meets a girl, uh she's also a dancer. But she is going to have to stop dancing because she has to go home and she has to go take care of her family. And the family were like, there's no future in competing. Let's just run the dance school. And ten years later, well, sorry, the first night, they have a, you know?

• 11:19Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 11:20Speaker 06

  A fun moment. She leaves, she takes a jet to fly home. And then ten years later, they bump into each other and he still remembers her because that was the best night of his life. And she still remembers him because she was like, oh, you've just gotten a reputation now. And so they clash and they clash. And they don't get along. And then they do get along and then they clash.

• 11:43Jessie Ware?

  Okay, this is, it's giving, it's giving Strictly Ballroom, yeah. It's giving Off Campus.

• 11:50Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 11:51Jessie Ware?

  And I like those two together.

• 11:53Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 11:53Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 11:54Speaker 06

  That's the best description.

• 11:56Jessie Ware?

  Okay, great.

• 11:56Speaker 06

  I finished off campus in a day.

• 11:58Jessie Ware?

  Me too.

• 11:59Speaker 05

  I've got to watch it.

• 12:01Jessie Ware?

  It's the girl from Mallory Towers, so I've been watching Mallory Towers with my daughter. And now old, what's her name, Daryl's all grown up now.

• 12:08Speaker 05

  She's grown. So are they at university?

• 12:11Jessie Ware?

  They're at university. It's very kind of coming of age.

• 12:14Speaker 06

  And it's that ice hockey world.

• 12:16Jessie Ware?

  Garrett Graham.

• 12:17Speaker 05

  Ice hockey world.

• 12:18Speaker 06

  And it's very, it's sensual.

• 12:21Speaker 05

  So.

• 12:21Jessie Ware?

  It was sensual.

• 12:22Speaker 05

  In your, in your, in your book.

• 12:24Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 12:25Speaker 05

  Is he a tango champion? Which is his dance?

• 12:28Speaker 06

  So he dances the Argentinian tango.

• 12:31Speaker 05

  Oh, I love that.

• 12:31Speaker 06

  Yeah, so he's, his mom is from Argentine, Argentina, and then his dad is Italian, so he's a mix.

• 12:37Speaker 05

  What was your best dance? Was it the Argentine tango?

• 12:40Speaker 06

  No.

• 12:41Speaker 05

  Or your ballroom?

• 12:42Speaker 06

  Um, no, I'm Latin. So you have Latin and ballroom. So you have your samba, cha cha rumba, paso jive. And then you have your ballroom, which is your Waltz, Phoenix Waltz, foxtrot, quickstep, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then we get the off. Latin and ballroom style. So that's the salsa, the Charleston and the Argentine tango.

• 12:59Jessie Ware?

  And that was your.

• 13:00Speaker 06

  No, I love the samba.

• 13:02Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 13:02Speaker 06

  Samba was my thing. I'm obsessed with the samba. I, I love the roots. It's a dance from Angola. You know, and then those kind of roots were taken over to Brazil and then to America and then to the UK. So I love the, the whole story of it. I love the outfits. I love the cultural reference that it has to me being African as well. So it was always a way I could express myself the best.

• 13:26Jessie Ware?

  Did, when you were, when you were younger in South Africa, was that your, always your dance that you wanted to go to?

• 13:33Speaker 06

  It was the rumba.

• 13:34Jessie Ware?

  Wow.

• 13:35Speaker 06

  Same, another dance from Angola.

• 13:36Jessie Ware?

  The rumba's the hardest one, by the way.

• 13:39Speaker 05

  It's the sexiest one, isn't it?

• 13:41Jessie Ware?

  It's really hard to get right.

• 13:43Speaker 06

  It's, it is hard to get right.

• 13:44Speaker 05

  It's hard for men, isn't it? More than women.

• 13:47Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 13:48Speaker 05

  Because it's the men show off the women, I think.

• 13:50Speaker 06

  I love that. You think she's going.

• 13:51Speaker 05

  I watched, you know, I'm a.

• 13:52Speaker 06

  I love it. You watch every.

• 13:55Speaker 05

  I should have been one of the presenters, definitely.

• 13:57Jessie Ware?

  Oh my god, you were.

• 13:58Speaker 05

  Didn't get the call sadly.

• 13:59Speaker 06

  I didn't get the call. Um, no, I I it's difficult because it's exposing. It's also difficult for men because they have to move in a very flexible sensual way. But they also have to show, uh, I think Shelly does this describes it as a horizontal desire. For a vertical movement. So you have to look at this woman.

• 14:21Speaker 05

  Horizontal decipher, vertical movement.

• 14:23Speaker 06

  It's a horizontal movement for a vertical. I don't know which way.

• 14:26Speaker 05

  Oh, and so is she saying you basically need to look. Yeah, exactly.

• 14:30Speaker 06

  But you're dancing. So you have to look at them with desire. You have to look at them with like.

• 14:35Speaker 05

  So it's the it's the eye contact, the face.

• 14:39Speaker 06

  And the hands and the bodies and when they go away and when they come back and like all of that has meaning. Now to say that to, for example, a rugby player, they'll be like, what?

• 14:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 14:51Speaker 06

  Whether you can say that to someone who can act, because they can interpret the story.

• 14:56Speaker 05

  But it must be fun in Angola.

• 14:58Speaker 06

  It's apparently they dance in the streets. I wanna go to the streets.

• 15:01Speaker 05

  Do the rumba in the street. Oh, my god.

• 15:02Speaker 06

  Just like in Argentina, they do the Argentine tango in the street.

• 15:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, you see that all the time in Argentina.

• 15:08Jessie Ware?

  This brings me on to your TV show.

• 15:10Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 15:11Jessie Ware?

  You you you're going back, you're you're doing an odyssey.

• 15:15Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 15:15Jessie Ware?

  With Reverend Richard Cole.

• 15:17Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 15:18Jessie Ware?

  An unlikely pairing. Can you explain to me? Well, no, he's wonderful.

• 15:23Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 15:23Jessie Ware?

  I didn't realise you were friends.

• 15:24Speaker 06

  We we are really good friends. So first we met on Strictly.

• 15:27Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 15:28Speaker 06

  And about ten years ago now. Um, and I love to have deep, meaningful conversation and he's the same. So we could sit and just be in a room and just talk and talk with a bottle of wine.

• 15:39Speaker 05

  Spiritual stuff.

• 15:40Speaker 06

  Spiritual life, um, I mean, he's a pastor, he's a reverend, he's gay, he came out as gay.

• 15:47Speaker 05

  He was in the communards.

• 15:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, he was, you know, but then he just lived that rock life.

• 15:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:52Speaker 06

  Um, and I was at a transition where I was, I just came from South, well, Germany, South Africa. He was very interested. He's, um, he's, his husband who passed worked in South Africa. And helped a lot of the the children and the women who had HIV AIDS. So he had a really deep, meaningful.

• 16:09Jessie Ware?

  Um.

• 16:10Speaker 06

  Connection to South Africa. And then we met again in the jungle and spent three weeks there. And we had those conversa- which we completely. Forgot that you, cause you forget you're on camera. And we just had those meaningful conversations, those spiritual ones, those. Because I'm at a a point where sometimes I'm like, is is God a thing? And like, he was like, yes, oh gee, God is a thing. I'm like, what about Jesus? And so it's those conversations that we would have, just the two of us. And every time he has to convince me, I'm like, but I'm having a bad day. And he's like, yes, God does allow bad days. That's okay.

• 16:48Jessie Ware?

  So on this um, Channel Four documentary, how many episodes is it?

• 16:52Speaker 06

  Four episodes.

• 16:53Jessie Ware?

  Can you explain to everyone what it's it's about? It's about you returning to South Africa.

• 16:58Speaker 06

  Yes, so it's among.

• 16:59Jessie Ware?

  With your friend.

• 16:59Speaker 06

  I'm going back to South Africa with my friend Richard Cole. And I am introducing him to things that I love about the country. But as we're driving, and it's like from from Johannesburg to Cape Town, it's a sixteen hour drive. But then we go Durban, and then we go Porte de Trabeja, it's called. And then we do um, the middle of the country as well. Ah, there are places that I've also never been, like Drakensberg, meeting a boys choir. Seeing them, how disciplined they are and and how tenanted those boys are. Going to the countryside, getting on a helicopter. And just flying over Lesotho, but then standing on the mountain tops.

• 17:42Speaker 06

  And then finding out the the the culture wars that we used to have as different black peoples, the Zulus. And the Indebellas and the kings and the royal families, things that I didn't even know about. And some of the fights they had and the tensions that they still have today. So all of that was introducing him to that, but also for me to find out more about. Another part of South Africa that I'd never learned. We met some incredible people as well. New dancers that I've never seen, yeah. So we pretty much danced everywhere and the rev hated it. He was like, oh my god, yes. He's like, please don't tell me all South Africans dance. I was like, yep. All South Africans dance. We have some sort of cultural dance.

• 18:23Speaker 06

  Um, and we danced Zulu dance, Kasa dance, we did the first man, so the Koi San. Their descendants, they have their own cultural and special dance, which we did in the middle of Norway in the desert. And he loved it, cause then he started going, who's your favorite football team? And they were like, Arsenal, so so he had um good conversations with the kids as well. And it was just a beautiful journey, really beautiful journey.

• 18:50Speaker 05

  Did you eat well?

• 18:51Speaker 06

  We, oh.

• 18:53Speaker 05

  I think South Africa, it's a hidden, it's a secret how good the food is there.

• 18:58Speaker 06

  So.

• 18:58Speaker 05

  It's so exceptional.

• 19:00Speaker 06

  So and it's it's mostly meat, yes.

• 19:03Speaker 05

  But the meat is exceptional. The bri.

• 19:06Speaker 06

  The bri.

• 19:06Speaker 05

  Bri, the the the ch- the lamb chops and the steak and.

• 19:10Speaker 06

  So good.

• 19:11Speaker 05

  And the and the fish king clip, which you can't get here or butter fish.

• 19:16Speaker 06

  When I my my husband, he's like, have you ever eaten vegetable in your life? Because because he would get a plate full of meat. And then he's like, oh, I would really like a salad. And then the salad would have meat in it. And then he was like, can I get a side? And then the side would have meat in it. And he's like, no, I just want a tomato. So it's lots of fish, lots of meat. We went to a fish town actually on the show when we actually, where we actually caught clams.

• 19:42Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 19:42Speaker 06

  And we bribed the clam and we had that at the beach. Yeah, literally there with a with a bottom of one.

• 19:48Speaker 05

  Bri a clam?

• 19:50Speaker 06

  So basically you catch it and it's not alive anymore. And you baste it with butter, oil, vinegar.

• 19:58Speaker 05

  Do you take it out the shell? Or you leave it in the shell, okay?

• 20:01Speaker 06

  You leave it in the shell, you slice it in the in the middle and then you just let let it marinate.

• 20:07Speaker 05

  We won't let get some on that one. My husband's the worst. Yeah. Barbecueer in the world, but he's a man that thinks that he must barbecue and I'm like, just leave it to me.

• 20:16Speaker 06

  But barbecue is different from bri.

• 20:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, bri, explain the difference.

• 20:20Speaker 06

  It's the fire, so the fire must be flaming hot, like our nandos in South Africa, the nandos here is complete. Like when you go to South Africa, oh, you see just fire from the nandos. So it's that fire and you get the smoke inside of the meat.

• 20:34Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 20:35Speaker 06

  A barbecue is like hot, it's hot plate, right?

• 20:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 20:39Speaker 06

  So it's not.

• 20:40Speaker 05

  Well, bri's are even harder to cook on them because you have to be.

• 20:43Jessie Ware?

  Really, really good at it, right?

• 20:45Speaker 05

  Well, it's not charcoal underneath then, if it's so much.

• 20:48Speaker 06

  So it is charcoal, but but it's.

• 20:50Speaker 05

  You cook it earlier?

• 20:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, you cook it earlier and but the the flame must be going and the meat has to be really close together. So that the juices stay together.

• 20:59Speaker 05

  Oh wow. And how long would you cook a clam for on the bra- a bryoc clam for?

• 21:04Speaker 06

  That didn't take long. It took about twenty, twenty five minutes and it was so good. It was so, so, so good.

• 21:11Jessie Ware?

  Can we take it back to Pretoria?

• 21:12Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 21:13Jessie Ware?

  Where you grew up? Who was round the dinner table? We know one person was round the dinner table, but um who uh who was round the dinner table and what were you eating? What's a memorable dish from your childhood?

• 21:24Speaker 06

  So mom, dad, so dad, that's why I asked you why I sit here. Dad usually sits here. Mom sits on the other side of the table, opposite. Mutzi, our middle sister, Pimelo and myself, and then my grandma would sit on the other side.

• 21:39Speaker 05

  Your grandma lived with you?

• 21:40Speaker 06

  Yeah, she did before she passed.

• 21:41Speaker 05

  Which one?

• 21:42Speaker 06

  Uh, on my dad's side. On my mom's side, passed away unfortunately. I think straight after Mutzi was born. So, yeah, but on my dad's.

• 21:52Speaker 05

  You're close to your grandma?

• 21:54Speaker 06

  Very close because um me and my sisters have a ten year age difference. I always say that. I always make it longer.

• 22:03Speaker 06

  Ten years older than me, no. So she's nine years older than me and my other sister's seven years. And so they started dancing nine, ten years before I was around. And so because they were already really good, uh and were travelling overseas and were practising. Um grandma took over, yeah, and took care of me, which is great.

• 22:25Speaker 05

  Oh, so your mum travelled with them?

• 22:27Speaker 06

  Yes, because they need the the the person to be with them.

• 22:30Speaker 05

  Grandma stayed at home?

• 22:31Speaker 06

  And I stayed with grandma.

• 22:32Speaker 05

  So important, aren't they, Jessie?

• 22:36Jessie Ware?

  They are. She were helping me this weekend.

• 22:38Speaker 06

  Yes, amazing. I'm jealous of that.

• 22:40Speaker 05

  It's so wonderful.

• 22:41Speaker 06

  I keep calling my mom. I'm like, please, please come. She's like, what's the temperature? And I'm like, it's twelve. She's like, no, don't call me. I'm not coming.

• 22:49Speaker 05

  You couldn't come today. You wouldn't know there was winter or summer.

• 22:52Speaker 06

  Every time I call her, she goes, let me see outside. I'll I'll come in July. That's it. She's like, July, August. She goes, then I'm out.

• 23:01Speaker 05

  It was a memorable dish.

• 23:03Speaker 06

  A memorable dish, which I think is still and will forever be a memorable dish. It's called seven colours.

• 23:10Speaker 05

  Mm.

• 23:11Speaker 06

  So basically, you have to have seven different colours of food on your plate. So we have white, which is bub.

• 23:19Speaker 05

  What?

• 23:19Speaker 06

  Bub, which is maize meal. So it's like a powder, uh like foo foo.

• 23:24Speaker 05

  Is that the same as mealy meal?

• 23:26Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 23:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, and yeah.

• 23:28Speaker 06

  Similar.

• 23:28Speaker 05

  I only know friends from Zimbabwe who have mealy meal, okay.

• 23:31Speaker 06

  Yes, so it would be pub and then you'd have your meat.

• 23:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 23:35Speaker 06

  Whatever meat. Usually you'd have like steak, chop and vors, but we'll say vors. Um you'll have chakalaka.

• 23:44Speaker 05

  Chakalaka, that sounds, what is it? Sounds like a dance.

• 23:49Speaker 06

  So it is, it is, oh my gosh, chopped vegetables. We're talking carrots, garlic, onions. Um with lots of spices, paprika. Oh, it's so good. And and peppers, carrots. And then you add baked beans over.

• 24:07Speaker 05

  Good god, like tin baked beans.

• 24:09Speaker 06

  Like tin baked beans. And they have to be baked beans, not kidney beans, not pinto beans, not black beans. It has to be baked beans.

• 24:16Speaker 05

  Do you fry the onion first?

• 24:18Speaker 06

  Fry the onion first.

• 24:20Speaker 05

  Add everything else.

• 24:20Speaker 06

  Then the garlic, then even the paste, and then you have your.

• 24:24Speaker 05

  Which paste?

• 24:25Speaker 06

  The tomato paste.

• 24:26Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 24:27Speaker 06

  Then you add more tomatoes.

• 24:28Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 24:29Speaker 06

  Then now you're testing me. And then you add, what do you add? Uh carrots. Cause they take a bit of time to cook. Then you can add your peppers.

• 24:39Speaker 05

  And they chopped up very small?

• 24:40Speaker 06

  Yeah, so long, long strings, so very long strings. And then you add your spices.

• 24:46Speaker 05

  Which spices?

• 24:47Speaker 06

  Cuban.

• 24:48Speaker 05

  Paprika.

• 24:49Speaker 06

  Uh curry spice.

• 24:51Speaker 05

  Curry spice?

• 24:52Speaker 06

  Yeah, but but it doesn't come out like a, it comes out literally like a relish.

• 24:56Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 24:57Speaker 06

  Thick, yeah.

• 24:58Speaker 05

  Chakalaka.

• 24:59Speaker 06

  Chakalaka. And then at the end you add the baked beans and then you have to let it cook. But you can also make it spicy. Some people like it spicy. I know Johannes loves it spicy. He once made it and my mouth was like a disaster. It was on fire.

• 25:12Speaker 05

  Do you like hot?

• 25:13Speaker 06

  No, well, I used to.

• 25:15Speaker 05

  Be your Nando's?

• 25:16Speaker 06

  My Nando's would be peri tama.

• 25:19Jessie Ware?

  What's that?

• 25:20Speaker 05

  What's that?

• 25:21Jessie Ware?

  Is that for like?

• 25:22Speaker 05

  Is that a different one?

• 25:23Speaker 06

  No, it's like sweet, sweet sour.

• 25:28Speaker 05

  Where'd you get that?

• 25:29Jessie Ware?

  Is that only in South Africa?

• 25:30Speaker 06

  No, it's here.

• 25:32Jessie Ware?

  Who's had a peritamer here?

• 25:34Speaker 06

  Guys, you need to come to the peritamer side, it's like.

• 25:37Jessie Ware?

  Is it like off, it like off menu and you're like, I want a peritamer?

• 25:41Speaker 06

  It's like, it's like not hot, cause I can't do hot anymore, cause in case the baby eats my food. So it's, it's.

• 25:49Speaker 05

  I mean, I'm on the line.

• 25:51Jessie Ware?

  Peritamer, so it's between medium and hot?

• 25:55Speaker 06

  It's no, it's between mild and medium.

• 25:57Jessie Ware?

  Okay, because she's a selfless mother that wants to kiss her child.

• 26:00Speaker 06

  Yes, but when she's not around me, I'm a hot girl. I do hot, but if she's around me, I can't, cause she might.

• 26:07Speaker 05

  You put lots of chili in.

• 26:08Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 26:09Jessie Ware?

  Now, are we allowed to say congratulations?

• 26:11Speaker 06

  Yes, you are.

• 26:12Jessie Ware?

  Congratulations. Thank you very much. How are you feeling?

• 26:15Speaker 06

  Exhausted.

• 26:16Jessie Ware?

  Oh babe.

• 26:17Speaker 06

  Exhausted.

• 26:18Speaker 05

  It's hard the first three months.

• 26:19Speaker 06

  The first three months felt like, like it felt like I signed up for London Marathon.

• 26:27Jessie Ware?

  Oh babe.

• 26:27Speaker 06

  I would wake up and I'd have to call my agent, I'm like, I just can't do the job anymore, I'm so exhausted. I'm, I, I would just be exhausted and then I was nauseous, um, I was in the car, I was vomiting, it was just like. Yeah, it was a tough one.

• 26:44Jessie Ware?

  Car sickness is horrendous with um, pregnancy, I found that.

• 26:48Speaker 06

  And, and you can't, you also can't tell anyone, right? So when you're vomiting, people think you're just hungover. Or like, oh yeah, did you have a good night last night? I'm like, no, and I can't tell you why I feel sick. Um, yeah, so it, it was really, really tough, but I got over it now.

• 27:05Jessie Ware?

  When are you due?

• 27:06Speaker 06

  November, so I have to beg my mom to come.

• 27:08Jessie Ware?

  Long.

• 27:09Speaker 06

  No, not long, so six months.

• 27:11Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 27:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 27:12Jessie Ware?

  How old's your little girl?

• 27:14Speaker 06

  She's two, two and a half.

• 27:15Jessie Ware?

  So it's perfect, really, timing.

• 27:17Speaker 06

  Yeah, and she understands, we kind of let her know, she, she walks past me and she just to my belly, she goes, hi baby. And then she walks every morning, she's like, I'm like, you know what's inside, so you can't jump on mommy. Cause I'm like that type of mom, I'll do like strictly stuff, I'll throw it in the air, so she can jump on me or we wrestle. And I had to completely stop all of that. And so now she goes, baby's in mama's belly. And then she lets me go.

• 27:44Jessie Ware?

  She could dance her.

• 27:47Speaker 06

  Yes, against my wishes.

• 27:49Jessie Ware?

  Oh no. Well, I mean, it's in. Well, I think you said it.

• 27:53Speaker 05

  It would be hard to avoid it with both dancers.

• 27:56Speaker 06

  Yes, but all four. So me, my sister, her husband and my husband are all professional dancers. With dance schools, both on television.

• 28:08Speaker 05

  Have you got a dance school now?

• 28:09Speaker 06

  Yes, so I have a dance school in Park Royal, the O T and Marius Dance School.

• 28:14Jessie Ware?

  And I've, and I've rehearsed there.

• 28:16Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 28:17Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, I did rehearsals for my music video there.

• 28:19Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 28:19Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, it's a great.

• 28:20Speaker 06

  We always, we always, my husband has cameras and she goes, you know, this is, I'm like, yes. Why didn't you tell me? I wanted to meet her.

• 28:28Jessie Ware?

  It's a great, it's a great space.

• 28:30Speaker 06

  Thank you, thank you. Now, we've had it for six years now. We really love it. We got it actually during, while I was on Strictly. It was nice and we can use that and now they've continued to use it. But we have artists come over and rehearse because of the peace and quiet. And it's like in the middle of an industrial area. And then we have our kids who are competitive kids.

• 28:51Speaker 05

  When you were dancing on Strictly.

• 28:53Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 28:53Speaker 05

  Every week, do you have to change your diet to keep going because the stamina you need?

• 28:59Speaker 06

  No, I think.

• 29:00Speaker 05

  Or do you lose weight whenever you're?

• 29:01Speaker 06

  You're gonna lose weight anyway, but it's not even a, a conscious thing. I think the show has so much pressure to it. That you eat what you can and, and.

• 29:14Jessie Ware?

  And when you can.

• 29:15Speaker 06

  And when you can, genuinely, because you're running around during the week when you're with your pro, great. Cause they allocate eating times and then you could eat whatever. Everyone was really relaxed about it. But on show days, it, it does get quite hectic where you have an incredible team of runners that go, you haven't had lunch, you haven't had dinner. Or runners who like follow you with your, with your shoes and dresses and they're like, here's a snack, orange or a fruit.

• 29:41Speaker 05

  Cause you've got to keep your energy up.

• 29:42Speaker 06

  You've got to keep your energy up, yeah.

• 29:44Speaker 05

  I, I, just being in the audience, I needed to keep my energy up. I'm telling you, it's a bloody long day.

• 29:49Speaker 06

  It's so long.

• 29:50Speaker 05

  Oh my god. I went to the one where you sang.

• 29:53Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 29:54Speaker 05

  Um, which was kind of, I took my best friend, it was the greatest day of her life.

• 29:58Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 29:59Speaker 05

  Cause she met everybody and we met all the dancers. Yeah, yeah, it was wonderful.

• 30:04Jessie Ware?

  I'm gonna get the food together.

• 30:05Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 30:06Jessie Ware?

  We're having, have you gone on?

• 30:09Speaker 05

  Off anything since being pregnant.

• 30:11Speaker 06

  No, why you ask me now?

• 30:14Speaker 05

  I'm worried that I'm gonna give you this.

• 30:20Speaker 06

  Uh cauliflower.

• 30:21Speaker 05

  Oh, I'm not feeding you cauliflower, thank god.

• 30:23Speaker 06

  That's it.

• 30:24Speaker 05

  God, that's an interesting one to go off.

• 30:26Speaker 06

  I can't stand it, the smell.

• 30:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, I understand the smell is a funny one.

• 30:32Speaker 06

  The smell is cauliflower.

• 30:33Speaker 05

  Okay, there's no cauliflower in sight, babe. Thank god for that, right.

• 30:41Speaker 06

  Yeah, so how was it?

• 30:43Speaker 05

  I want, so d- does Johannes cook for you?

• 30:47Speaker 06

  He did once when we had.

• 30:48Speaker 05

  He did once. He goes to a takeaway, when he was on, he told us he goes, Jessie, didn't he go to a Turkish takeaway every day, Johannes?

• 30:58Speaker 06

  Filipino.

• 30:59Speaker 05

  Filipino takeaway every day.

• 31:01Speaker 06

  Because if he was to cook South African food, it genuinely does take long.

• 31:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:06Speaker 06

  But to be honest, I also like takeaway. I think probably because him and I, we didn't grow up in a.

• 31:13Speaker 06

  Like, we didn't have all of these things around us, and so now we're like free to just run, yeah, it's like kids in a candy store.

• 31:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:21Speaker 06

  So we eat, I also, I'm bad at takeaway, I love a Wingstop.

• 31:26Speaker 05

  A what?

• 31:26Speaker 06

  Wingstop.

• 31:27Speaker 05

  What's Wingstop?

• 31:30Speaker 06

  I'm obsessed with you two because everything I say, you're both like, what's that?

• 31:35Speaker 05

  I don't know what.

• 31:36Speaker 06

  What you mean, Peritama? What do you mean Wingstop? Wingstop.

• 31:40Speaker 05

  Where is Wingstop?

• 31:42Speaker 06

  It's everywhere.

• 31:43Speaker 05

  It's in Berkshire?

• 31:44Speaker 06

  It's in Berkshire.

• 31:45Speaker 05

  Good.

• 31:46Speaker 06

  It is fried chicken but different flavors, so you'll get like a spicy mango. Or you'll get like a really, really, really hot but but fruit flavors. Like six different flavors, you can get.

• 31:57Speaker 05

  And is it just the wings?

• 31:59Speaker 06

  You can get wings, you can get tenders, you can get little chicken bites, you can get different types of fries. Because you're eating healthy food in the kitchen.

• 32:09Speaker 05

  But I have to admit that I think Kentucky Fried Chicken is the most delicious thing on the.

• 32:14Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 32:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 32:15Speaker 06

  You have not tried Wingstop.

• 32:17Speaker 05

  I'm gonna try Wingstop immediately tonight.

• 32:20Speaker 06

  Uh you have to, it is so good.

• 32:22Speaker 05

  What other takeaways do you like?

• 32:24Speaker 06

  I I'm very specific. So Nando's, I would, I don't eat anything, anything. I don't, I don't like, and no, sorry, not Nando's, McDonald's. I can't eat anything else except the McSpicy chicken. That's the only thing I can eat at McDonald's.

• 32:39Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 32:41Speaker 06

  Uh, Nando's, it has to be a double chicken wrap, peri-tama or hot.

• 32:46Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 32:46Speaker 06

  When the baby's not around, with peri fries.

• 32:49Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 32:49Speaker 06

  Five Guys, it's a small cheeseburger.

• 32:51Speaker 05

  Right.

• 32:52Speaker 06

  With pickles and grilled onions.

• 32:54Speaker 05

  Do you cook as well as order takeaway?

• 32:57Speaker 06

  So much, yes, I know it sounds like.

• 33:03Speaker 05

  If we came for dinner, what's your best dish?

• 33:05Speaker 06

  Oh, I'd make you a South African dish.

• 33:07Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 33:07Speaker 06

  But then I'd make a different type of chicken. So I maybe make you butter, butter garlic chicken.

• 33:13Speaker 05

  Butter garlic.

• 33:14Speaker 06

  Yeah, which is like loads of garlic, loads of butter. It's, it's a nice sauce as well.

• 33:20Speaker 05

  Can you recommend a good South African cookbook?

• 33:23Speaker 06

  Hmm, all of them. Can you tell I don't need a South African cookbook?

• 33:27Speaker 05

  No, because you know it.

• 33:29Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 33:29Speaker 05

  You know it. Did your mum teach you?

• 33:32Speaker 06

  No, she refuses. She's, my mum is such a good cook. Oh my god, when, when I just had the baby. And she cooks really healthy stuff. So I was able, like, I felt warm. You know when you have soups that make you warm inside?

• 33:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 33:47Speaker 06

  Uh, but I was like, could you teach me? She said, no.

• 33:49Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 33:52Speaker 06

  Yeah, she just went, no, you make your own recipes. You figure it out. You go by your soul. I was like, mum, that doesn't help me.

• 33:59Speaker 05

  So you're cooking soul food every day?

• 34:01Speaker 06

  Every day. So I would make you that. I'd then make you some chakalaka, cause you probably.

• 34:06Speaker 05

  I'm dying for chakalaka now.

• 34:08Speaker 06

  I'd make you, I'd make you seven colours.

• 34:10Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 34:10Speaker 06

  So we'd have a potato salad, you'd have your beetroot, you'd have your butternut, you'd have your corn, you would, it would be a feast. It would be a feast.

• 34:20Speaker 05

  What is celebration? If you're having a celebration and say it's a christening or a wedding. Big banquets, does everyone in your village or your neighbourhood come? So it's not just close friends?

• 34:33Speaker 06

  No.

• 34:33Speaker 05

  It's everyone, open to everyone?

• 34:35Speaker 06

  Our wedding had two hundred people invited, only friends.

• 34:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 34:41Speaker 06

  Four hundred and fifty people were at our wedding.

• 34:44Speaker 05

  Where was the wedding?

• 34:45Jessie Ware?

  Did they just turn up?

• 34:46Speaker 06

  They just, so like you, I would invite you and you'd, I'd be like, oh, mom is your plus one. But mom's like, yeah, but I can't leave my best friend. That would have been nice. She wouldn't have been like, and then the best friend would be like, yeah, but I can't leave my husband. Like I have, I go over with my husband and then the husband would be like, but what about the kids? So then it's your best friends and the kids and that, yeah, it generally.

• 35:05Jessie Ware?

  A bride and groom just really resentful.

• 35:07Speaker 06

  No, so it's a wedding, basically. It's almost like a Indian, kind of the Indian way where you're feeding the village, you know, you're feeding. So when we cook, even if it's for two hundred, you just say, ah, you, you know.

• 35:23Speaker 05

  Do people bring along food as well?

• 35:25Speaker 06

  No, and people come hungry.

• 35:28Speaker 05

  Oh, my god.

• 35:29Speaker 06

  They don't, they come on empty stomachs. Sometimes they come with lunchboxes.

• 35:33Speaker 05

  Oh, my goodness. Tupperware to take.

• 35:36Speaker 06

  So we have these little cakes, we call them the gugu. And at every wedding, if like, of course, the, the family, close family and the ones that are invited, they would have the wedding cake. Then you order another cake, just in case the distant family, we're talking the cousins, they would have that cake. But then the guests of the guests, they would have the gugu. And they would just take the gugu in a plastic bag or in a lunch, a tin.

• 36:00Speaker 05

  So people bring their tupperware with them?

• 36:02Speaker 06

  Bring their tupperware with them, yeah.

• 36:03Speaker 05

  Where was your wedding?

• 36:04Speaker 06

  It was in our house, actually, where, in Pretoria, where we live, cause we've got, it's like a plot, uh, it's a big garden. And so we just thought, well, with dancers, we can't really afford getting a venue and it's silly and the house is here. And we'll always have that memory. So we just did it in the front garden.

• 36:22Speaker 05

  And music, was there any music?

• 36:24Speaker 06

  Yes, so South Africa, we've got loads of different musics. It was, I mean, we had to mix it. So there was South African music, which is like Kuwaito, we love R and B, uh, we had some Latin.

• 36:37Speaker 05

  What is Kuwaito?

• 36:38Speaker 06

  Kuwaito is like township music. That is very big in South Africa.

• 36:44Speaker 05

  Did any of your family come from township?

• 36:47Speaker 06

  Yeah, all of, all of the family. We grew up in a township and then later moved out into the suburbs. Mabupani.

• 36:54Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 37:03Speaker 00

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• 37:11Speaker 02

  What's his deal? He went to Metro and got $450 in value on the new Samsung Galaxy A37 5G for free and no activation fees.

• 37:19Speaker 00

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• 37:22Speaker 02

  Get that more for your money feeling, only on Metro by T-Mobile.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  Bring your number and activate $40 period plan. $450 based on device discount. Wait for activation fee. Not available with Metro T-Mobile in the past 180 days.

• 37:38Jessie Ware?

  We have, Otie, we have Alison Roman's brilliant recipe that I seem to have cocked up today by making the chicken dry. It's her slow roasted chicken with tomatoes and vinegar and butter and fennel and oregano. And I don't know why it's fricking dry, but whatever. Enjoy it, yeah?

• 37:54Speaker 06

  Do not worry.

• 37:55Jessie Ware?

  Anyway, try and find the most moist of it.

• 37:58Speaker 06

  Maybe it was meant to be dry.

• 37:59Jessie Ware?

  Maybe it wasn't, Otie, and I'm pissed off.

• 38:02Speaker 05

  Darling, that's not enough.

• 38:04Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, she want dry chicken, doesn't she?

• 38:05Speaker 06

  I'm just taking the sauce because you said it's dry, so I'm moistening it up.

• 38:09Jessie Ware?

  Can you get a bit of the tomato?

• 38:10Speaker 06

  Okay, and I like the bone.

• 38:12Speaker 05

  You want the bone?

• 38:13Jessie Ware?

  Okay, get that skin.

• 38:14Speaker 06

  I like the bones. I got the skin.

• 38:15Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, great. Get a bit of that tomato. Would you like some salad and beans?

• 38:20Speaker 06

  Yes, I would love salad. It's probably dry at all.

• 38:23Jessie Ware?

  Oh babe, it's, listen, listen, I can see it's fucking dry, but you're so sweet.

• 38:30Speaker 06

  I try.

• 38:31Jessie Ware?

  Talking about going back to when you were younger and the amount of effort it took probably for your mum and dad to support your sister and you to go and be...

• 38:41Speaker 06

  Three sisters.

• 38:42Jessie Ware?

  Oh, so your other sister danced too?

• 38:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, and she did Boreum. We did Letter, she did Boreum.

• 38:47Jessie Ware?

  Was that completely inconvenient that she was doing a completely different one because she would have different teachers or?

• 38:53Speaker 06

  No, it was, I think it was... No, I think they wanted that. She did, she did ten dance. Because she just didn't want to compete against her own sister because they're so similar ages. They have to compete against each other. She didn't like the competitiveness of all of it. Um, and just the tension that creates in a family. Like, dance families have a lot of tension in them when you're competing against each other. And she didn't like that. And she was like, I'll just do the ballroom. Let her do the Latin.

• 39:22Jessie Ware?

  But your mum, your mum and dad weren't, were they dancers?

• 39:25Speaker 06

  No.

• 39:25Jessie Ware?

  So they just had this love for it?

• 39:27Speaker 06

  No.

• 39:27Jessie Ware?

  And it was a way out of the, like.

• 39:29Speaker 06

  No, um, Mutzi had the love for it.

• 39:32Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 39:32Speaker 06

  Mutzi was the one who was like, I want to dance, um, and I love it. And they were like, well, if you're all the sisters doing it, you have to do it too.

• 39:41Jessie Ware?

  Because I can't be everywhere all at the same time.

• 39:43Speaker 06

  Exactly. And the other one, Pemelo, she didn't really have something that she was obsessed with. So they're like, okay, you'll be obsessed with this as well. So, yeah, um, and then my mom just became obsessed with it because she just. All she wanted to do was protect her little three blood kids. And so she, she was basically our umbrella, you know, she was like, I'm just gonna protect you guys until the end.

• 40:08Jessie Ware?

  Protecting, I'm just wondering, regarding, regarding the dance schools that you're in, was it black? Um, only black kids that you were allowed to dance with?

• 40:17Speaker 06

  Yeah, uh, by then the rules weren't like that, but it was just the political stance of the country. So, yeah, we, we were, we did go to white schools, uh, but the dance school was in a black area. It was for black kids. Because we wanted to, well, my mom really wanted to uplift the township. Um, and give kids something to think about and give us, you know, we didn't have high performing centers. We didn't have after school care. So dance was their little sanctuary.

• 40:47Jessie Ware?

  But you were, were you encouraged, apartheid had finished.

• 40:52Speaker 06

  Yeah, by then, it had finished.

• 40:54Jessie Ware?

  But, but it still kind of pervades society, yeah.

• 40:57Speaker 06

  So we would be in the, the townships, be in the dance school, live there. And then the competitions were very much white and they were with white judges in white.

• 41:07Jessie Ware?

  And did you have mixed couples, black and white?

• 41:11Speaker 06

  We could dance together. You mean, could we dance together? Yeah, you could totally dance together. I'm like, that ended. Already, I would say in the eighties, it was slowly started to die out. But the mentality is something that you cannot kill, you know, it's something that still lives on today. Um, but yeah, so my mom wanted to protect all the kids. She wanted to make sure that the judging systems were fair, she wanted to make sure that the policies that they were creating were fair. The election processes were fair, so she was on top of all of it, and not just her, but it was a group of moms. As well, who were also protecting their kids, so they felt really passionate about that.

• 41:52Jessie Ware?

  She sounds amazing.

• 41:53Speaker 06

  Yeah, and if you meet her, she's so quiet, she's so quiet and she's so, no, it's okay, but um, she's a strong woman. No, never danced before, never danced before.

• 42:04Jessie Ware?

  So what was her job?

• 42:05Speaker 06

  Mom.

• 42:07Jessie Ware?

  So she didn't work.

• 42:07Speaker 06

  Oh, like work, no, no, no, she, she, she, she had a nursery and she was a school principal for that. Then she had a taxi company, then she had a flower business.

• 42:18Jessie Ware?

  Oh my god.

• 42:18Speaker 06

  She had a, a sewing business and, but now she's like, now she's grandma and she still has the nursery.

• 42:27Jessie Ware?

  She must be very proud of you or.

• 42:29Speaker 06

  Extremely proud, she's extremely proud and um. I call them every day, I make sure that I talk to them every single day. Um, and so she just is like, I can't believe the life that you're living, I just can't, or, or she'll be. Just paging through the show and she goes, I saw you on television and everybody's calling me that you're now in Ireland and I'm like, yeah. I'm in Ireland and so she's just really proud, and my dad as well, very, very proud.

• 42:55Jessie Ware?

  So when you started coming over to Blackpool for the competitions, how old were you?

• 43:00Speaker 06

  Eleven.

• 43:01Jessie Ware?

  Well. So like, but your first plane trip to, where was your first plane trip?

• 43:06Speaker 06

  Um, I was already competing competitively when I was nine, so that would, yeah, I was, yeah, they started.

• 43:13Jessie Ware?

  How old were you in?

• 43:14Speaker 06

  Four.

• 43:16Speaker 06

  Yeah, four. I don't know, cause I look at my daughter now and I think I was a psychopath as a baby because. Because I look at her and I'm like, she's so small. And she's she's turning three this year, so it means I started like next year dancing competitively. And I asked my sisters, I'm like, were you guys lying to me? Like, did you just make up that number? Because I don't know, right? They were like, yeah, you were four, we knew.

• 43:43Speaker 05

  But but you have to be very disciplined. We were talking about Jessie's children and. Her husband wants the two boys to go to do jujitsu because he says the discipline you have to. But I can't imagine you disciplining your children to compete at four.

• 43:57Speaker 06

  I don't think.

• 43:59Speaker 05

  No, no, no, but I can't imagine being able to discipline the children.

• 44:06Speaker 06

  That no one had to discipline me. I wanted it. I literally would sit my family down. On a Sunday, like we say after dinner, and I'm like, right, girls.

• 44:14Jessie Ware?

  It's showtime.

• 44:15Speaker 06

  Today, your practice was awful.

• 44:19Speaker 06

  I know, I was three, four, and I'd be like, no, um, you're, the way you present yourself is not good enough. You're not strong enough. You need to do your arms like this and like this and move your hips like this. And then my mom was like, do you wanna try? I was like, try. I'm gonna be amazing at this. And that's how it happened. And they were like, we'll find you a partner, let's go. And then I was like, okay, come to practice, come to practice. And I was go, go, go.

• 44:43Jessie Ware?

  And they didn't work hard enough, did you?

• 44:45Speaker 06

  And yeah, I guess they didn't. And then I found another one and he did, and then that's when we started.

• 44:51Jessie Ware?

  You said, sorry, four-year-old, you're not working hard enough. I need a new partner.

• 44:56Speaker 06

  Cause he'd come and he'd be like, I've got a stomach.

• 45:01Speaker 06

  He's always got excuses and I wanna win. And yeah, so I was just, oh, honestly, that's what I'm telling you. I was crazy as a child.

• 45:09Speaker 05

  Did you ever come across Johannes in?

• 45:11Speaker 06

  Yeah, we competed our whole life against each other, our whole life.

• 45:15Speaker 05

  But you never partnered him?

• 45:17Speaker 06

  I was supposed to.

• 45:18Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 45:19Speaker 06

  We were supposed to partner, we had a tryout and he was really good, but I was at the point in my life where I had to choose between dancing, I I was already South African champ for ten times at that point. And yeah.

• 45:34Speaker 05

  So how old were you at this age?

• 45:35Speaker 06

  I was twenty, I was twenty.

• 45:39Speaker 05

  Ten times.

• 45:40Speaker 06

  Yeah, I started competing when I was ten in South Africa and um and so the the choices were be an engineer, so I studied civil engineering, um.

• 45:52Speaker 05

  At uni?

• 45:53Speaker 06

  Yeah, at university and I was gonna start working, dance with Jojo and con- continue competing in South Africa, or leave and go overseas.

• 46:03Speaker 05

  And?

• 46:04Speaker 06

  And I left and I went overseas.

• 46:05Speaker 05

  Does your name mean anything?

• 46:07Speaker 06

  Yeah, my name means, so I have to start with my older sister.

• 46:11Speaker 05

  With the the to- the oldest one.

• 46:12Speaker 06

  Mutzi means, is Mutzhezi her full name?

• 46:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:16Speaker 06

  Which is the one you can rely on.

• 46:18Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 46:19Jessie Ware?

  Is that correct?

• 46:20Speaker 06

  Yes, but like now we're all kind of the same age and so when she gives us advice, we're like, stop.

• 46:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:26Speaker 06

  Like, stop. Uh but yeah, she definitely is like the older sister, the the calm one.

• 46:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:32Speaker 06

  And then the middle sister, sorry, the middle sister is called Pimelo, which means the protector. So when Mutzi would get bullied at school, Pimela would come to her school and like fight all the bullies off.

• 46:44Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 46:45Speaker 06

  And then the last one is Utlila, which means she has arrived.

• 46:48Jessie Ware?

  Oh.

• 46:50Speaker 06

  Now you get it. Yeah, I do get it.

• 46:52Speaker 05

  Born to it then.

• 46:53Speaker 06

  Yeah, I was like, I am here. Um yeah, so they, my my parents literally were like, yeah, we're gonna name you guys in that way. And I was like, but why did you like my name? Then I would just really liked it.

• 47:06Speaker 05

  So what language is it in?

• 47:07Speaker 06

  Sichuan.

• 47:08Speaker 05

  Sichuan.

• 47:09Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 47:09Speaker 05

  And can you speak Sichuan?

• 47:10Speaker 06

  Yeah, I only speak Sichuan. So it's like a language that natively comes from Botswana. So my family and heritage would be from Botswana. Yeah.

• 47:20Jessie Ware?

  Mum, what? That looks delicious.

• 47:22Speaker 05

  Well, um, yeah, I think it's gonna fall apart.

• 47:24Jessie Ware?

  That's okay.

• 47:24Speaker 05

  It's fine.

• 47:25Jessie Ware?

  Um. Doesn't look dry like my chickens, so go on.

• 47:28Speaker 05

  Definitely not dry.

• 47:29Jessie Ware?

  Go on.

• 47:29Speaker 05

  Um, it's a mango cheesecake.

• 47:31Speaker 06

  Oh, I love.

• 47:32Speaker 05

  Let's, and passion fruit, and there's some mango and passion fruit coulis to add on the top.

• 47:37Speaker 06

  I've never had that before.

• 47:38Speaker 05

  Oh, M and S, darling.

• 47:42Speaker 06

  So, so I put it over or I drink this?

• 47:44Jessie Ware?

  Like, you drizzle it.

• 47:46Speaker 06

  Okay, okay.

• 47:47Speaker 05

  Shall I give you some?

• 47:49Speaker 06

  Yes, please. A lot of some.

• 47:50Jessie Ware?

  Okay, oh, you've got a sweet tooth?

• 47:52Speaker 06

  I've got a very big sweet tooth. I mean, not since the baby, but we're gonna try.

• 47:56Jessie Ware?

  Okay, well, see how you go.

• 47:58Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 47:58Jessie Ware?

  Um, last supper, O T.

• 48:01Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 48:02Jessie Ware?

  Starter, main, pudding, drink of choice.

• 48:05Speaker 06

  Oh, God. Oh, no. Can I go the other way around?

• 48:09Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, sure.

• 48:10Speaker 06

  Dessert?

• 48:11Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 48:12Speaker 06

  I'll go a m- milk, milk tart, do you know, a milk tart.

• 48:16Jessie Ware?

  Hmm, explain, like, what kind of milk tart? Where am I finding it? Can I find it in the UK?

• 48:22Speaker 06

  Yeah, no, a peppermint milk tart.

• 48:25Jessie Ware?

  Oh, peppermint milk tart?

• 48:27Speaker 06

  It's milk, it's.

• 48:28Jessie Ware?

  Peppermint, wow.

• 48:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, and the base is tennis biscuits, then it is.

• 48:33Jessie Ware?

  Which biscuits?

• 48:34Speaker 06

  Tennis biscuits.

• 48:35Jessie Ware?

  What are they?

• 48:36Speaker 06

  Stop it!

• 48:37Jessie Ware?

  Does anyone else know what a tennis biscuit is? It's like a digestive.

• 48:40Speaker 06

  Where on earth am I? I wanna live your life. You've never eaten a tennis biscuit?

• 48:47Jessie Ware?

  No, what's a tennis biscuit?

• 48:49Speaker 06

  It's a, it's a biscuit for tennis players.

• 48:51Jessie Ware?

  I'm joking. I'm Googling this.

• 48:54Speaker 06

  It's like a square biscuit. It is, I think it's made by bakers. You do get it here in the UK, cause my daughter's obsessed with it. And it's coconut flavoured.

• 49:02Jessie Ware?

  What?

• 49:03Speaker 06

  But not like, obviously coconut.

• 49:05Jessie Ware?

  Never seen these, but I like the packaging. Are they kind of like milky malted milk? Are they like the malted?

• 49:11Speaker 06

  No, it's like a less intense digestive.

• 49:15Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 49:16Speaker 06

  But it's really nice. It's almost like a.

• 49:18Jessie Ware?

  It's very retro packaging.

• 49:19Speaker 06

  Yeah, that, that like, almost like a much classier, which other ones you, you get at the hotel?

• 49:25Jessie Ware?

  Leaving it's.

• 49:26Speaker 06

  No.

• 49:26Jessie Ware?

  No, Lotus. Lotus, the ones you get in the hairdresser.

• 49:30Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 49:30Jessie Ware?

  We love them.

• 49:31Speaker 06

  But like a much classier one.

• 49:34Jessie Ware?

  Wow.

• 49:35Speaker 06

  So that would be the base with butter.

• 49:37Jessie Ware?

  Where was the first time that you had a tennis biscuit? Is it in South Africa?

• 49:42Speaker 06

  Maybe in my mother's womb.

• 49:44Jessie Ware?

  So is it South, is it a South African thing?

• 49:46Speaker 06

  Yes, yes.

• 49:47Jessie Ware?

  Because you know we love anchivat in this house.

• 49:50Speaker 05

  Do you know anchivat?

• 49:51Jessie Ware?

  Hex anchivat.

• 49:52Speaker 06

  No.

• 49:52Jessie Ware?

  Anchovy spread.

• 49:54Speaker 06

  Oh no, I've never had that.

• 49:56Speaker 05

  I've just paid nineteen pounds to get two small things.

• 49:58Speaker 06

  That's, that's daylight robbery.

• 50:00Jessie Ware?

  From South Africa, it's a South African fish paste.

• 50:03Speaker 06

  No, I've not had that.

• 50:04Jessie Ware?

  Okay, well, you take the anchivat and I'll take the tennis.

• 50:08Speaker 06

  You have to get the tennis biscuit.

• 50:09Jessie Ware?

  Okay, so you're going tennis biscuit base.

• 50:11Speaker 06

  Yeah, and then you get buttercream or condensed milk.

• 50:14Jessie Ware?

  Yum.

• 50:15Speaker 06

  And you boil that.

• 50:16Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 50:17Speaker 06

  Uh, until it's really mixed together. And then you put it over the tennis biscuits and then you put it in the freezer for about three, four hours. And then you spread the, the peppermint crisp. You know peppermint crisp? Chocolate?

• 50:30Jessie Ware?

  Oh yeah, okay, like, n- not like an after age, no.

• 50:34Speaker 06

  But it is like an after age.

• 50:35Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 50:35Speaker 06

  But it's proper like, it's like crunchy, but inside it's peppermint.

• 50:39Jessie Ware?

  Oh.

• 50:40Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 50:40Jessie Ware?

  Can you get them in the UK?

• 50:42Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 50:43Speaker 05

  Has anyone had a peppermint crisp here?

• 50:45Jessie Ware?

  Yeah. Okay, fine, okay. Producer Alexandra.

• 50:47Speaker 06

  You need to come hang with me.

• 50:49Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 50:49Speaker 06

  You all probably get diabetes, but we'll be fine.

• 50:52Jessie Ware?

  So this is, okay.

• 50:53Speaker 06

  And then you put that in the, so it's a non-bake dessert.

• 50:57Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 50:57Speaker 06

  Or you can put cinnamon.

• 50:59Jessie Ware?

  This is a non-bake dessert as well.

• 51:01Speaker 06

  So, so then you can put cinnamon over and it's divided. It's like a cheesecake.

• 51:07Jessie Ware?

  Uh, how, how lucky that we're doing a cheesecake today. This is delicious, Mum.

• 51:10Speaker 05

  Do you like it?

• 51:11Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 51:12Speaker 06

  Where did you get the idea of the mango?

• 51:14Speaker 05

  It was a recipe on Marks and Spencer's website.

• 51:17Speaker 06

  A Marks and Spencer's website. And what's in the base?

• 51:20Speaker 05

  Ginger nut biscuit.

• 51:21Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 51:23Jessie Ware?

  Okay, so we forgot you put.

• 51:25Speaker 06

  At the moment, I'm obsessed with lasagna.

• 51:29Jessie Ware?

  There's nothing quite like a good lasagna.

• 51:32Speaker 06

  But it has to be in an Italian place with an Italian chef.

• 51:38Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 51:39Speaker 06

  And you can taste when it's been like in the pot for hours and it's been.

• 51:45Jessie Ware?

  Do you like that?

• 51:46Speaker 06

  Love it.

• 51:47Jessie Ware?

  Do you like it wet or quite dry?

• 51:49Speaker 06

  Wet.

• 51:50Jessie Ware?

  Oozing.

• 51:51Speaker 06

  Like the cheese, like when you.

• 51:53Jessie Ware?

  Your children don't like it. I like it, Oozy.

• 51:56Speaker 06

  I love it. Like when you put the fork, it goes. Yeah, it just comes apart. Love that.

• 52:02Jessie Ware?

  Where have you had your best lasagna recently?

• 52:05Speaker 06

  I don't know the name of the hospital, the the restaurant, but it is a rest, it is, it's in Covent Gardens. Do you know where the Hippodrome Casino is, like Magic Mike? If you cross the road.

• 52:18Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 52:19Speaker 06

  There's a little Italian there, little, like everyone's like a little Italian family. Um, I don't know the name, but it is, it was so good. I got two.

• 52:30Jessie Ware?

  Good for you. Right.

• 52:32Speaker 06

  I got two.

• 52:33Jessie Ware?

  They're small portions, you know, you know.

• 52:35Speaker 06

  It's like it's me and the baby. The baby likes lasagna. I never though eat lasagna. I never eat Italian food, except if I'm in Italy. Because I don't know where to go, right? So I feel like anywhere you go in Italy, the food will be great. But here's sort of hit and miss. But I was in that restaurant and I did not want to leave. It was stunning.

• 52:57Jessie Ware?

  Okay, so we've got a cheesecake, we've got, we've got a lasagna. Where's the starter? What's the drink?

• 53:03Speaker 06

  The the starter, can I go for croquettes?

• 53:06Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 53:06Speaker 06

  Is that weird?

• 53:07Jessie Ware?

  No. What's that? Croquettes?

• 53:09Speaker 06

  Oh, what sauce?

• 53:10Jessie Ware?

  Ham and cheese?

• 53:11Speaker 06

  No, just cheese.

• 53:12Jessie Ware?

  Where are you having them? In Spain?

• 53:14Speaker 06

  I'm having them in Greece with truffle over.

• 53:17Jessie Ware?

  Where were you fancy pants? Where did you have these? Mykonos or somewhere?

• 53:21Speaker 06

  No, in Athens. And they were very affordable.

• 53:25Speaker 05

  Mmm.

• 53:26Speaker 06

  It was right by the beach.

• 53:27Speaker 05

  They love a croquette, don't they?

• 53:29Speaker 06

  Oh, it was like three cheese croquettes.

• 53:32Speaker 05

  Delicious.

• 53:33Speaker 06

  And over it, they had um a layer of truffle and then a rounded honey.

• 53:40Speaker 05

  It's the honey and cheese that just does it for me. Delish.

• 53:45Speaker 06

  I was in heaven.

• 53:46Speaker 05

  If you were having a dinner party, who would you like to come, dead or alive?

• 53:51Speaker 06

  Oh, gosh. Beyonce.

• 53:54Speaker 05

  Beyonce. Does she wiggle her bum well?

• 53:57Speaker 06

  She so well. She's the queen of bum wiggling.

• 54:00Speaker 05

  She's a great dancer.

• 54:02Speaker 06

  She's a great dancer. It has to be Beyonce.

• 54:04Speaker 05

  Expression.

• 54:04Speaker 06

  It's a yeah, no, it's not. Uh but I get you, mom. For you, we'll say, yes, it is.

• 54:10Speaker 05

  But she did go to Africa to learn it, didn't she?

• 54:13Speaker 06

  Yeah, she went to like Gambia or Ghana.

• 54:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 54:16Speaker 06

  I think so, but then she brought South Africans over to.

• 54:19Speaker 05

  Oh, did she?

• 54:22Speaker 06

  Yes, South Africa, Zimbabwe, in her videos. So she was really good. So I would have Beyonce.

• 54:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 54:29Speaker 06

  I would have Michelle Obama.

• 54:31Speaker 05

  Hmm, yeah.

• 54:31Speaker 06

  As well. I'd have Alison Hammond, of course.

• 54:37Speaker 06

  Yes, how many am I allowed?

• 54:38Speaker 05

  You can have it all. Yeah. All women or any men?

• 54:41Speaker 06

  All women.

• 54:41Speaker 05

  Okay, you're not having any men?

• 54:43Speaker 06

  No, I married one. I'm fine.

• 54:46Speaker 06

  No man. I'd have Jessie.

• 54:48Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 54:48Speaker 06

  For some dried chicken.

• 54:52Speaker 06

  We're all need to have some dried chicken once in our life with some tomato.

• 54:56Speaker 05

  I'm so heartbroken.

• 54:57Speaker 06

  Just for the vibes.

• 54:58Speaker 05

  I'm heartbroken. Yeah, you bring your curry.

• 55:01Speaker 06

  Who likes bone? I'm like, we're bringing, and please bring the chicken.

• 55:06Speaker 05

  I'm I'm devastated. Oh, see, you see, I'd have Nelson Mandela at mine.

• 55:10Speaker 06

  Nelson Mandela.

• 55:12Speaker 05

  Wasn't he a god in your family?

• 55:14Speaker 06

  He he he was a god in the whole country, but that's controversial because you can't just bring him along. You need to bring.

• 55:21Speaker 05

  Really.

• 55:22Speaker 06

  You, yeah.

• 55:23Speaker 05

  I think she was good fun, probably.

• 55:25Speaker 06

  Do you know what I mean?

• 55:25Speaker 05

  She was a bad girl, but I think she was good fun.

• 55:28Speaker 06

  Like the the way she's spoken about in the UK or the rest of the world and the way she's spoken about in South Africa is just like worlds apart. So we grew up with her being the hero, the the actual warrior in the streets, walking around.

• 55:43Speaker 05

  To try and get him freed and and bring keeping him alive.

• 55:46Speaker 06

  But other things as well, you know, like other other army things as well and how she got treated was just always put in the background. So I'd have to have both of them. But I still wouldn't have them because I need the conversation to go that way.

• 55:59Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 55:59Speaker 06

  You know, I still, I think that I read, my dad made me, when we were naughty, my dad would make us read A Long Walk to Freedom.

• 56:06Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 56:07Speaker 06

  When you were naughty? Yeah, so that's where my love of books came from.

• 56:11Speaker 05

  It is a great book.

• 56:12Speaker 06

  It is a really good book, but it's a lot. We read that one, you know, that the thick one, the one that you can't even open the book.

• 56:18Speaker 05

  Before we let you go, one nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere.

• 56:25Speaker 06

  Okay, it's not nostalgic, but I do think it's um just weird. We had shark.

• 56:33Speaker 05

  Shark?

• 56:33Speaker 06

  Shark.

• 56:34Speaker 05

  Shark. When?

• 56:38Speaker 06

  I think thirteen years ago, the first trip my husband took me was to Iceland, which I was like, me and this guy are not gonna last. Because why would you take an African girl to like the coldest country in the world? Um, and we had shark with some shots, vodka shots, and it was the best experience.

• 56:58Speaker 05

  Oh, how interesting.

• 56:59Speaker 06

  It tasted horrendous, but the people of Iceland and the occasion and the food and the. It so we had food, we all had food and they went, you know what, we got some shark, you wanna try some shark? And I was like, yeah, and then we had the shot and then we had loads of shots afterwards. So I feel like the occasion. I will always remember Iceland for that. It was freezing cold. I got blown down the hill because of the wind. Then we went to a lagoon and then we went to a spa and it was beau- and the people were just incredible. And I remember it was all based of us sharing and me just saying, okay, I'll eat the shark and just accepting their culture.

• 57:41Speaker 06

  And their food and their ways that I always remember that.

• 57:45Jessie Ware?

  And it made you realise that maybe you loved this guy, that you could be in a cold place and it could work out okay.

• 57:52Speaker 06

  Still argue about that. I sleep near the heater. He sleeps by the window.

• 57:57Jessie Ware?

  What's the dance that you'll do when you make up? If you're fighting, what's the dance? Will you be like, will you just get them rum- rumba hips out and you'll be like salsa? You can't, you can't be grumpy with the salsa, can you?

• 58:07Speaker 06

  Can't be grumpy with the salsa. It's a local dance that you could do in the streets. You don't need to have a choreography. Most of the other ones, you kind of do need to know where he's going, but the salsa, it's all in his hands. And it's all in me to decide whether I go or not. So I make the choice. So. And it's any music, it can be fast, it can be slow, it can be romantic, it can be raunchy. As long as he's leading and I follow, that's how it works for the salsa.

• 58:34Jessie Ware?

  I love that. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

• 58:37Speaker 06

  Thank you for having me.

• 58:38Jessie Ware?

  And best of luck with the rest of the um pregnancy.

• 58:40Speaker 06

  Yes, thank you. Thank you for having me as well. Have fun.

• 58:58Jessie Ware?

  O T M U C. Love her. Gorgeous woman. She really did arrive into the world being fabulous, didn't she?

• 59:07Speaker 05

  She did. She's just fabulous. Fun, warm, hardworking.

• 59:11Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 59:12Speaker 05

  From the age of four.

• 59:13Jessie Ware?

  I can't actually.

• 59:14Speaker 05

  Competing.

• 59:15Jessie Ware?

  My children are idle.

• 59:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, idle children.

• 59:18Jessie Ware?

  Lazy. Buggers.

• 59:20Speaker 05

  Yeah, lazy children you've got, Jessie, compared to the Mabusi family.

• 59:24Jessie Ware?

  I know, they are quite.

• 59:25Speaker 05

  High achievers.

• 59:26Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, I know. And she was gonna go to uni and do engineering. I'm just like, oh yeah, just that on the side, a bit of engineering on the side, sure.

• 59:33Speaker 05

  Clever. And right now a novelist.

• 59:36Jessie Ware?

  I know, it's really.

• 59:37Speaker 05

  I can see what she's written about on film, can't you?

• 59:41Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, totally.

• 59:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 59:42Jessie Ware?

  She's fab. Really loved having her on. She's a really impressive, brilliant human and.

• 59:49Speaker 05

  Enthusiastic eater.

• 59:51Jessie Ware?

  Enthusiastic eater. I'm really annoyed that my chicken was dry.

• 59:54Speaker 05

  Never mind, darling.

• 59:55Jessie Ware?

  It's just annoying. So do I need to just not do it for as long, Alison Roman? Or was the chicken not big enough?

• 1:00:01Speaker 05

  I don't know. I cooked it for less time when I cooked it. I cooked it for two hours. And I felt that was over doing it as well.

• 1:00:09Jessie Ware?

  Shit oven. I'm getting a new oven. I'm done with my oven. I'm like, I'm ready to break up with it.

• 1:00:14Speaker 05

  How are you going to get you a new oven? You'll have to get a whole new cooker.

• 1:00:17Jessie Ware?

  This is a conversation for another time. Thank you to O T Mabusi for coming on. You can go and read her book Slow Burn. Or you can go and watch her documentary on Channel Four with Reverend, with Reverend Richard Coles, which is out, I think, in the summer. Um, I think it's in July, so it's not out yet. But thanks, O T, for coming on. And congratulations on having another baby. She looks amazing.

• 1:00:40Speaker 05

  She looks gorgeous.

• 1:00:41Jessie Ware?

  We'll see you next week for more Ted and Hans.

• 1:00:57Speaker 00

  State Fair food is getting smaller and pricier.

• 1:01:00Speaker 01

  We'll have room for fried cookies.

• 1:01:02Speaker 00

  Okay, you'd never overspend on food. What's your deal?

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  What's his deal? He went to Metro and got four hundred and fifty dollars in value on the new Samsung Galaxy A thirty seven five G for free and no activation fees.

• 1:01:13Speaker 00

  Free phone? Oh, sign me up.

• 1:01:16Speaker 02

  Get that more for your money feeling. Only on Metro by T Mobile. Bring your number and activate forty dollar period plan. Four hundred and fifty based on device discount, waived activation fee. Not available if looked Metro T Mobile in the past one hundred and eighty days.