110 How to Find the Courage to Open Up, Share Your Truth, and Live Free with Robbie Rogers

"Sometimes you have to give people who love you a chance to really love you." - Robbie Rogers If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes and more at www.lewishowes.com/110. Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 110 with US Olympian and major league soccer star Robbie Rogers. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness podcast. My name is Lewis Howes. Thank you so much for hanging out with me today. And I've got a special guest on. It's a dear friend of mine that I've known for many years, Mr. Robbie Rogers. And for those that don't know who Robbie is, he is a Olympian. He is, was on the US national team in soccer. And he plays for the Los Angeles Galaxy currently, but when I met him, he was playing with the Columbus Crew and he had won a championship. He was an all-star. He was, you know, one of the best players in the country. He's an awesome human being. And we talk about his story today. Robbie created history when he decided to retire, announced that he was gay,

• 1:17Lewis Howes?

  playing professional soccer over in Europe, and then came back to play here in the States with the LA Galaxy. And the conversation of homosexuality in sports has been a big topic for many years and it's never really been accepted. And it's still not accepted in many sports as he's currently the only one doing it in one of the major men's pro sports right now. And others are trying to lead the way as well. Others are opening up, but they're retired now or they're not actively playing. So it's a delicate topic right now for a lot of athletes. And although many athletes are accepting it, some of the media is not accepting it and there are a lot of people who are not in acceptance of it.

• 2:00Lewis Howes?

  But today we talk about the decision Robbie made to first look inside himself and start being honest with himself. And then start being Honest with his friends and his family and then be honest with the world. And the process of which how he um opened up and how he started to share this truth with himself and with the world. And we talk about, he gives some good advice on the process on how anyone could take action and start opening up about their truth. And it doesn't need to be their homosexuality, but uh truth about something, a secret they've been holding on to or a lie, or just being truthful about anything in relationships, in business, whatever it may be, but opening up and sharing your truth.

• 2:43Lewis Howes?

  And it was fun to sit down with Robbie because uh you know, we've been friends for a number of years. And I had no clue about any of this. So for me, it was interesting to really ask him the questions I've been wanting to ask him uh for the last couple of years since this has come uh to fruition. And I got to dive in and have a fun conversation with him, an intimate conversation with him today. And uh he's a dear friend, someone I care about deeply. And I'm so proud and happy for his success and for him opening up and sharing his truth. And I talk about also how he was the inspiration for me to open up with everyone here on my podcast about an experience I had with my uh as a child, going through sexual abuse as a child.

• 3:23Lewis Howes?

  And I don't know if I would have fully committed to opening up uh in a public format without seeing what my good friend Robbie did and how he did it. And uh how the media took it and everyone had their own opinion. And for me, it's just a very courageous thing of him to do in his situation. So, and let's go ahead and dive into this episode with the one and only Robbie Rogers.

• 3:56Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast with my man Robbie Rogers in the house. What's up Robbie? Not too much. It's good to see you, Lewis. It's been uh, it's been too long. Been too long, man. We uh, for those that don't know, Robbie Rogers is a standout soccer player. He was on the US Olympic team back in 2008 in Beijing. Also, you almost went to the World Cup in 2002. That's how we met. That's how we met in 2012, is that right? Or was it 2010? 2010, 2010. 2010, Robbie was on the USA national team, uh soccer team. And what is it, 30 people that they had camp? Yeah, I was an alternate. And they'd take 24 or something? 23. So you were like one of the last ones. Yeah. And what happened?

• 4:41Lewis Howes?

  You walked into the office?

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Thanks for reminding me. I, yeah, it was, we had like a last game before the last cut against Czech Republic. And about two in the morning after that game, so probably five or six hours after that game, I got a call from Bob Bradley and he just wanted to meet with me. So I knew it was bad news.

• 5:00Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man. But you were playing well in the?

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, playing well. The game went really well and had a great camp. And I had a few of the players say, don't worry, Robbie, you know, you're gonna be, you're in. Yeah, don't worry about it. And I think I let my guard down.

• 5:11Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man, that's too bad. Because you'd won a championship in the MLS the year before or two years before?

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Two years before.

• 5:19Lewis Howes?

  With Columbus Crew?

• 5:20Speaker 01

  We won the support show the next year. I think I was an all-star that year. And then obviously you went to the Olympics, so.

• 5:27Lewis Howes?

  So you had a pretty good career?

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Yes, up to that point.

• 5:30Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man. What was that feeling like getting so close?

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's tough because the Olympics is every four years. So you know, you don't have that many shots at it. And so to be that close, but then, and you just think about like, oh, what if I would have done this? Or if I would have done this differently?

• 5:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. If I would have scored one goal?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 5:47Lewis Howes?

  Then I would be in.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, you just, those things go through your mind. But in the end of the day, I felt like, you know, I, I did everything in my power that I, that I could possibly do. And, and I played really well and it just came down to experience. And I was a young guy then, so.

• 6:01Lewis Howes?

  It's tough. How old were you then?

• 6:02Speaker 01

  I think I was like 21 or 22.

• 6:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, man, that's tough.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:06Lewis Howes?

  But it's also, we would not be sitting here right now if that didn't happen.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  You don't, yeah, that's true. Yes, that's true.

• 6:11Lewis Howes?

  We would not be sitting here, not to say that I'm better than the Olympics or than the World Cup. But, uh, because we actually were, you know, me and my former business partner, Sean Malarky, were walking down to Columbus. You were living in Columbus?

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:23Lewis Howes?

  We were walking down to go watch the game, like the USA game, I think, or one of the games at Cup of Joe.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:29Lewis Howes?

  Remember that Cup of Joe? Or was it called Joe's or Cup of Joe?

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Cup of Joe, I was sitting, I was sitting outside.

• 6:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you were sitting outside. And I remember, I don't watch soccer. I don't really care about soccer. But Sean goes.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Now he does, though.

• 6:38Lewis Howes?

  I do now. Now that you play, I, I do now that I know you. But he, he goes, I think that's Robbie Rogers. I was like, who? And he goes, Robbie Rogers. He's like, one of the best players in the crew. Don't you watch soccer? I was like, I don't care. And I was like, how do you know it's him? He's like, he's got a tattoo that says like Lola or something, right?

• 6:53Speaker 01

  Lolly.

• 6:53Lewis Howes?

  Lolly.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:54Lewis Howes?

  And he's like, that's his tattoo. I was like, what? You're like a freak, dude. And so then I realized that my business partner was a stalker.

• 7:02Lewis Howes?

  But I was also like, let's go say hi, you know, let's go chat with him. He was like, well, I think he's supposed to be in the World Cup. But he's not there.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  I think I just got back the day before. So that was pretty emo.

• 7:10Lewis Howes?

  And you were by yourself like writing in a journal or something. You're like sad. And I was like, hey, what's up, bro? Like, are you Robbie? And you were like, yeah, what's up? And we just started connecting and then we pretty much.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  I watched the game with you guys.

• 7:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, we were like, come on in and hang with us if you want. And you were like, I'm gonna sit here for a bit. Then you came in and we pretty much became good friends ever since then. We pretty much hung out like every day. We lived like two blocks from each other. We almost lived together.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Went to the quarry.

• 7:35Lewis Howes?

  Went to the quarry, jumped off cliffs, got in trouble. We went to Nida's.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Nida's, Impero, all the spots. All the Columbus hotspots.

• 7:42Lewis Howes?

  It was a, it was a fun two years. And I went to games. It was just like a good time. We played tons of ping pong. You, you beat me most of the time, even though they were all close games. And it's just been a fun experience getting to know you and getting to hang out. And then you went off to, to London or you went to Leeds.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  To Leeds, yeah.

• 8:00Lewis Howes?

  And then played there. I remember talking to you and saying, hey, man, if you really want to go to the World Cup, you gotta go play in Europe probably and like show them. Cause we were kind of talking about that. You were a little disappointed.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  And you visited me or you went.

• 8:10Lewis Howes?

  I visited you.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, after the Olympics.

• 8:12Lewis Howes?

  I was there for the Olympics and I went up and came and hang out for, was it a day or two?

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:16Lewis Howes?

  Stayed in your apartment up there. It was a nice little town.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:18Lewis Howes?

  And I was gonna watch a game, but it was like four hours away or something, I think. And I remember hanging out and, and then a couple of months later, something happened.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then I came.

• 8:30Lewis Howes?

  I came out and then you came out.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  Yes. Louis came out to London and then I decided I had to come out.

• 8:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was England especially. I mean, obviously, and I wrote about it. You know, there was moments in my life where I was happy and could keep myself busy with soccer or busy with, with other things, but I was just kind of a little depressed and, and dealing with my sexuality and coming from a very conservative family and from the sports world, I felt like it might not ever be part of my life and I might not ever be able to be open to that side. So it was really in England where I kind of discovered myself. And, and I think right when you were like visiting me, I was, I had a lot of alone time and, and time just to think about things. And it was probably after you visited me, I think it was probably, I don't know, four or five months later that I came out to my, to my family. So.

• 9:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  I didn't look back.

• 9:17Lewis Howes?

  Crazy, and you moved to London.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Moved to London.

• 9:20Lewis Howes?

  To play with another team.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I mean it was, yeah, I mean it was. I moved to London, just, I went on loan, Leeds got a new coach and he told me pretty much that I could go on loan somewhere because I wasn't gonna play at Leeds and had a bunch of injuries and even at that point I was, I was figuring out when I was going to retire because I felt like I couldn't come out and be a football or be a soccer player at the same time. I thought it wasn't gonna be possible. Obviously it is, I play for the Galaxy now and, and the league and, and the football and soccer world is very accepting, but it was just all the things that happened in the locker room when I was young, all the little things that people said that really scarred me that made me believe that it wasn't possible, so.

• 9:54Lewis Howes?

  Now, what did the people say?

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Uh, I mean, I would get in, I mean, not me, but I'd be in the locker room when they'd be having discussions, uh, like, for example, they'd say like, how could a guy even be gay? How could someone go through the act of loving like another man? And when you have, when you hear that kind of stuff and you hear it from a young age, it just, again, it scars you and and, uh, it just makes you believe that it's just, you're in an industry that isn't acceptable to.

• 10:17Lewis Howes?

  Or that it's bad, or that you're wrong.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  Exactly. And that's, it's, it's, you know, I, again, I come from a very Catholic family and my family's been very supportive, but before I came out, it was almost like it's such a sin and it's evil and, and and they don't really believe that, you know, and I know that because after I came out, from the second I told them, they, they've been very supportive, but. Yeah, but it's, it's like that, you know, sometimes people say things that they think they should say and not that they actually believe and in the locker room, it's that like pack mentality where guys say things to kind of make other guys laugh or it'll just be like one of the dudes and they're just not sensitive to other things.

• 10:52Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Now, your family's been really supportive the whole time. You have amazing parents and, you know, siblings, they're all awesome, I met them all. And, uh, so was there ever any concern, like, before you opened up to them or did they mention things before, like you have to, you know, same-sex marriage or being with the same-sex is a sin or?

• 11:11Speaker 01

  I grew up thinking that like, you know, same-sex marriage was just not ever a possibility and that wasn't.

• 11:18Lewis Howes?

  Through your family or through your religion?

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, through my family, through, I went to Catholic schools growing up, always part of a church. Um, so from a very young age, I obviously thought that that was, uh, a side of me that I had to, you know, keep away from people that I, that I couldn't even accept. Um, so, you know, that was really tough and that's probably why I was so afraid to come out to my family. Um, you know, but.

• 11:38Lewis Howes?

  You didn't want to lose them?

• 11:39Speaker 01

  I didn't, yeah, I didn't want to lose them or I didn't want them to think like, oh, is Robbie now different? Is, is this not the person we know and? And I mean, I think even after I came out, they were still worried of that, even though they accepted everything that I was going through. But I think they've realized that like, oh, Robbie's a still, still same boring soccer player.

• 11:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Interesting. So that's cool. Then that was there ever been someone who hasn't been supported now? Just to let people know, it's pretty monumental that you're the only active, unless, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't watch the news much, but you're only actively gay, male professional athlete in one of the tops sport, male sports out right now, right? Is there another person that's out?

• 12:19Speaker 01

  That's a mouthful, but I think so. I think that's right.

• 12:23Lewis Howes?

  There's no one else that's actively, or actively, but like.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  Actively gay.

• 12:27Lewis Howes?

  Who's actively playing, who's gay.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  I mean, I guess, you know, obviously Jason's, Jason Collins retired, he's a great guy and Michael Sam's, I'm not quite sure what his.

• 12:34Lewis Howes?

  Is he playing still?

• 12:34Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't know what his status is. But he was drafted, obviously, and he made.

• 12:39Lewis Howes?

  He was on preseason, I know that.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, preseason, I think he was on the practice team at Dallas, I believe. I tried to kind of follow and like support that in any way I could, but I'm not quite sure what his status is. But, you know, I think there's a few female athletes that are out and playing and then there's myself. There's not many of us, but I think hopefully that will change soon.

• 12:58Lewis Howes?

  Right. Now, what was, first off, you wrote a letter that you posted online and I remember reading this letter because Sean, my former business partner, Sean and good friend, he was like.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  He really is a stalker.

• 13:11Lewis Howes?

  He goes, I didn't know this happened. And then Sean like texted me or called me, he goes, hey, did you know Robbie came out? I was like, what do you mean he came out? Came out where? I'm like, so what do you think? And he's like, dude, check his website out. He just wrote a letter that he's gay. And I was like, what? And I was like, it was so interesting. First off, I have so many questions because we still haven't really debriefed on all this. But first off, what was that like writing that letter and how long did it take you to write the letter and what was coming up for you?

• 13:39Speaker 01

  So I wrote that letter two months after I came out to my family and I wrote it because one of my friends just said, you know, you should be writing right now, just like, you know, it's very therapeutic and it will help you gather your thoughts. So I wrote that just like one night, it was like really late in London, I was sitting in my. In my, in my flat, in my apartment, and I just started writing and I, I remember um just sitting there and thinking like, you know, what is it that I would wanna say to like other people? Or what was I so afraid of and, and how do I feel now? So I wrote that and I just left it on my desktop for a few months. A few months? Yeah, I think like two months. Wow. Yeah, two months I left it there and then I was in my flat with one of my friends, my apartment, sorry.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  In February. There's some Londoners listening, I understand. Yeah, yeah, you Londoners get what I'm saying. Um, and he was like, just, I was talking, I was like, do you think I should come out to the public? Or should I post this, this is what I wrote and I showed it to him and he's the kinda guy that would only like make fun of me and never be like, "Oh yeah, that's actually like really great." He, but he said to me, he's like, "This is like really emotional." And he got really emotional reading it and I was like, "Oh wow." Was he straight? Gay guy. Yeah. And he's like, "You know, you should post that." And I was like, "Really?" He's like, "Yeah, just do it, like who cares, nothing's gonna happen anyways." And then you broke the internet. And I was like, "Oh maybe, like maybe nothing will happen and, and maybe some people will say like, 'Oh, good job.'" And pat me in the back and some people might say like, "Oh gosh, you're gay." Like, "I don't like you." So I was like, "Alright, well, I'm gonna do it." So I posted it then to social media and it just went insane. It was like trending and like. You broke the internet, I felt like. I was like Kim Kardashian. You're, for a week.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  But I didn't have to get naked. Yeah, right. And that photo shot. Yeah, so it was kinda crazy um for a while and. What was the, what was it like when you published it? What was the feeling you felt? It felt like. Even before you saw any feedback? Yeah, I didn't see any feedback for a while. My friends, I then went to get some drinks with my friends, get some food and they were kinda following stuff. So they probably didn't know that it was gonna be a big deal, maybe they kinda tricked me, but um I. How did you feel right after you said it? I felt amazing, I felt like, like everyone, I can just start from ground zero, that I'm starting from scratch. Everyone knows who I am and, and I don't have this secret that I'm hiding from anyone. So it felt uh absolutely amazing. Again, I like turned my phone off, I didn't talk to anyone.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  I mean, I didn't even tell my mom that I was posting that letter and they were like, you should have told us because there was like people were calling them and people were calling my sister at work. She's a nurse and calling her at the hospital.

• 15:55Lewis Howes?

  To do interviews or something.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  And I just, see, I didn't realize that it was gonna be a big deal. I just thought it was, you know, I was just coming out and that people would just, okay.

• 16:02Lewis Howes?

  Support, yeah, right. Supported her, said something about her.

• 16:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. I didn't know that it would be such a big issue.

• 16:06Lewis Howes?

  So now, did the sense of relief and grounds, starting from ground zero, did that like continue or did you start to get scared and freaked out or?

• 16:14Speaker 01

  No, I mean, it was, I was always like, I'd see people that like, so I came out to my family and a bunch of friends, but I didn't come out to a lot of people. So I knew that I was gonna see people that like, I didn't tell personally.

• 16:24Lewis Howes?

  You never told.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 16:25Lewis Howes?

  Like, you didn't tell me?

• 16:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. Exactly. So I was like, I'm gonna see people that like, I probably should have told, but I didn't. But like, how are they gonna react? Or like, are they gonna wanna like, talk about things, get more personal? And, I mean, that did happen. I was, I had to like, be open about everything. And first, for me, it was a little awkward just because I'm not good at being open about things, period.

• 16:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  So, it's, it took a little bit of you getting used to. And then having to like, and I did my first interviews like a month or two after that in London with like The Guardian and New York Times. And I was like, oh, like, holy crap, like, I gotta be open about everything and I.

• 16:55Lewis Howes?

  They wanna ask you every question.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly. And, and at first, I was just, I'm a shy person, so it was, it was hard for me to do that. But, um, I think that's, that going into the detail and talking about stuff is really like what helps people and what's helps, helps people kinda connect with it. So I'm happy I did it, but, um, it was tough for me.

• 17:12Lewis Howes?

  Would you do anything differently?

• 17:14Speaker 01

  Uh, no, the only thing differently I would have, I would do, I would have done when I was younger in my life would, was probably speak to like a therapist or someone away from my family just to kinda share those feelings with and just to like toss ideas around. I don't know if it, if I would have came out earlier, but at least just to like get all that stuff out of me. Cause I honestly didn't tell anyone I was gay till I was 25. Or even like, and then even come to terms with it when I was probably like 24.

• 17:37Lewis Howes?

  When did you know about it?

• 17:38Speaker 01

  I must have known about it when I was like 14 or 15, you know, like my freshman year of high school, I think. And I think even at a younger age, like. Probably on like a genetic level, I must have known because people would say the word like fag or gay or all those words. And I would be really sensitive to them. So I must have like deep down known, I must have known somehow. Yeah. But I I knew for sure when I was like just going to high school.

• 17:59Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Yeah. And you give some awesome stories in your book and for everyone listening, make sure to go check out Coming Out To Play with Robbie Rogers. Uh, it's all about his entire experience about opening up with coming out as an athlete and a professional athlete in a, you know, in a world where it's not accepted yet in pro sports. And you talk about some relationships with some girls you had in high school and what that was like and some, some pretty interesting stories. Um, what did your girlfriends think?

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Um, it's funny. I'm still like friends with all of them and like they're all like, oh yeah, let's go out tonight and get dinner or whatever. Cause they love to have a gay friend. But, um, I always, I felt like bad about it. I mean, I felt bad about then and even now because I, I honestly thought that like, if I met the right girl, that like, maybe I could be straight and fall in love and like have this life that that would be like my brothers or my sisters. So that part was like, you know, kind of sad for me to think about those times, but also like, you know, you're, I was kind of using someone.

• 18:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  And, um, so I felt bad about it, but all of the girls that I've like dated or hooked up with or whatever have been so understanding and amazing about like, it's just people, if you give them a chance to love you and know who you are. Uh, and that's one thing I've like learned from all this. It's like, you have to give people a chance to really like get to know you and, and give them a chance to just love you for, you know, even when you're insecure about things. So they've been amazing and supportive and some of them came to my book party and one of my, my, the last girl that I dated just texted me this week. She's like, I'm home. Let's go get sushi. I'm like, are you sure? You don't hate me? But no, they're all, they're all great.

• 19:31Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. Now, one of the things that's been cool about, uh, you know, our friendship and watching all this is that for years, you know, I told you about something that happened to me in my life when I was a child and I remember thinking like, there's no way I will ever tell anyone this ever happened to me. And I opened up about it on the, an episode on the School of Greatness podcast about, uh, having, experiencing some. Childhood sexual abuse and I remember feeling terrified just over the thought coming to my head that I would like even talk about it to one on one with someone.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:04Lewis Howes?

  And then I saw what you did and it actually really inspired me. I was like, holy crap. If Robbie can do this on such a huge level, then I feel like it's something I need to do.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:11Lewis Howes?

  Because it was holding me back.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 20:13Lewis Howes?

  Now, do you feel like it was holding you back from performing at a higher level in sports? I know you started to get some injuries.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:21Lewis Howes?

  Uh, and, uh, you know, do you feel like it was holding you back in any way?

• 20:24Speaker 01

  Definitely held me back from enjoying the whole experience and enjoying.

• 20:27Lewis Howes?

  Life.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Life, yeah. Life in general, but like being in the locker room and traveling with my teammates and winning games and going out to get beers after and having real discussions at team dinners. So now we have that kind of stuff. We talk about stuff that's going on in the gay worlds and the straight and we aren't too sensitive. We joke about things and the guys will say like Robbie, you're the gen- you're a genius here. Like you're the one guy that has figured everything out. You can go home and play fantasy football and your wife's not going to bother you about it. Yeah, my boyfriend and I will both work on fantasy football together. But I mean, just like, we know, so we play and we joke and, and, um, you know, but I have real discussions with them. You know, I've had discussions with the guys about not being able to date till I was 25 years old and having to go through that awkwardness and, and they like

• 21:09Speaker 01

  will then get really like serious and emotional and will be at a team dinner. So it's just something that's, that's not going around like on in, in team sports, you know? But it is going on with the Los Angeles Galaxy, which is so amazing. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's so crazy. You know, I'll come back to West Hollywood, you know, and hang out with some of my friends that are gay guys and talk to them about the stuff and they're like, you know, it's just so different and, and.

• 21:28Lewis Howes?

  Such a different world.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. And even my coach, uh, after the book party was like, you know, Robbie, thanks so much for inviting, including us. And he's like, it's just, I met so many amazing people and, you know, we're just living in a time now where things have just changed so much. And he's been around forever. He's coached world cup teams. He's been with the national team forever. He's obviously been with the galaxy for a while and has been very successful. And so for it to come from a guy like that, seen so much and so experienced, he sees the difference and, and how the world of sports has changed. And, um, it's just, it's, you know, soccer deals with racism and, and homophobia and, and sports, you know, sexism. So it's just, everything's changing, I think, too slowly, but at least. We're getting somewhere.

• 22:05Lewis Howes?

  We look at the Los Angeles Clippers and the owner, right?

• 22:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly, exactly.

• 22:09Lewis Howes?

  Now, he's being, he's fired, or he had to sell the team.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:13Lewis Howes?

  Because of what he's been doing for years.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 22:14Lewis Howes?

  So people aren't tolerating this type of.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Closed mindedness.

• 22:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, this type of energy, this type of attitude or abuse, really, on all these different levels, which I think is pretty cool. And you're setting, you know, a great standard for people to, to follow along. So it's been amazing. Now, let's go back to Columbus because I want to know about, because we hung out a lot.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:37Lewis Howes?

  We, we had a lot of fun time.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  Except when we played lobster ball.

• 22:40Lewis Howes?

  Don't bring up lobster ball. I still am bitter about losing.

• 22:45Lewis Howes?

  I never, you know, I remember one time your sister Coco came out.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:49Lewis Howes?

  And we were like hanging out for a few days with her and whatever. And I remember being like, where's Robbie's girlfriend? You know, I was like, where's Robbie's girlfriend? Because I'd never thought you were gay. Maybe I'm horrible at like figuring that out.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  I'm horrible at it too. I never know if people.

• 23:02Lewis Howes?

  I don't know. And then I'm, I'm just curious, like, you know, did it ever come up when we were hanging out or to talk to your teammates in Columbus Crew? Because you had some really close friends, your roommates.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  No, I was so closeted that like.

• 23:14Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 23:14Speaker 01

  I didn't even like let myself, it's like, yeah, I wouldn't even talk to my teammates. I wouldn't even like let myself like, say I saw like a good looking person, guy in the street. Like, I wouldn't even let myself like go to that place. I was like, and it's really damaging. Again, that's why I wish I would have spoke to someone, you know, like.

• 23:29Lewis Howes?

  You just want to talk about it, right?

• 23:30Speaker 01

  Just be able to talk about it. I was so closeted and afraid of that side that I just.

• 23:34Lewis Howes?

  What were you afraid of?

• 23:35Speaker 01

  Again, it was just being raised, it's like the double, it's like the combo of like being raised in a very conservative Catholic family. And then being raised in the sports world. I mean, I've been a professional athlete since I was 19.

• 23:47Lewis Howes?

  Double whammy.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I went to like the Reson C I M G Academy. I was young, played with the national team, you know, always played soccer since I was young and. It's just the culture that's just not very accepting.

• 23:59Lewis Howes?

  Very liberal and.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  No, no, no. And, and you hear so many things growing up. You know, in the field and in the and from the fans and in the changing room. So I was just so closeted that I I wouldn't even allow myself any kind of attraction to men. I was afraid to say anything to my sisters who like have been so amazing and accepting. And I'm sure if I would have that they would have just been worried and wanting to like help me.

• 24:21Lewis Howes?

  Just love on you even more.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. And if I would have liked told a person like you, like you would have been able to just support me. But I was so closeted that I just, and it's weird for me to say so closeted, but I was just so scared. Yeah, yeah. I know, I just hate the term closeted.

• 24:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course. No, I hear you. It's interesting because, you know, I would say I'm a pretty liberal, straight guy.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  You're a very liberal, straight guy. And I have relatives that are very liberal, like have gay friends, like would talk to me about them. But it doesn't matter. It didn't matter what anyone said to me.

• 24:50Lewis Howes?

  Really? Man, it's crazy.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. It is crazy. You go crazy when you're closeted.

• 24:55Lewis Howes?

  And it's like, it's interesting because looking back at I'm like, you know, I hang out with you and lots of gay friends. I live in West Hollywood. It's like, you know, the gay capital of the country or whatever. And I have lots of gay friends and have fun. And I remember, you know, I'm pretty affectionate as a guy. I'm affectionate with women. I'm affectionate with men. I'm like, I put my arm around people. And I always like put my arm around you and like, just like, want to like, give you some like manly affection, you know? Not gay affection, but just like, hey, bro, let's be pros.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, it's you.

• 25:22Lewis Howes?

  And you would like push me away.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Was I?

• 25:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, man, you'd be like, ah, okay, it's a little too much.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Well, sometimes you still do that and I still push you away.

• 25:30Lewis Howes?

  But it's just, you know, it's funny to think back on that and recognize that like you were just so closed off to like even going there on a friend level.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  I'm sure. I mean, yeah, I think that a lot of my relationships weren't as deep and as, I don't know, I don't know, just not as great. Because I was kind of closed off to emotion and not being able to just totally be myself. So I would distance myself from people, which again is like very sad. And there's a lot of people that deal with this stuff around the world that are closeted and guys that have been married and have kids and I know guys that have like.

• 26:03Lewis Howes?

  No one knows in their life and they're just.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  No, they don't really know who these people are, yeah. And it sucks, you're saying they're living a lie, but like, surely they're just, they're struggling so much with themselves. So they feel like they have to lie.

• 26:14Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's, I mean, I get letters every day from people, so it's, it happens a lot.

• 26:19Lewis Howes?

  What do you feel like, uh, do you feel like you've made an impact in people's lives for them being truthful or being honest in their own life about opening up or sharing anything else that they're afraid of?

• 26:29Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, just from receiving these letters and I've thousands and thousands of letters over the past two years. I know that it's made an impact. I don't know exactly. You know, what kind of changes people want to implement their lives from, from hearing about my story. But I know I get letters from people that, uh, thank me on behalf of their partner. They're like, you know, they were closeted with their family and I just want to tell you because it's helped our relationship so much. I've received letters again from like older men that are married and have kids and they're like, you know, I probably will never come out, but like just your story just, you know, gives me like hope. So, yeah, so it's just people from all walks of, I've received letters from straight people that are just like, you know, I've felt very different in my life for whatever reasons and

• 27:08Speaker 01

  I, you know, if you can come out and be gay and play soccer and, you know, all this stuff, then I should be able to be open with my family about whatever. So, yeah, so it's, uh,

• 27:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I mean, you definitely, you definitely made an impact with me.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly, exactly. You're like, I can do this.

• 27:22Lewis Howes?

  I'm not gay, but this is like, me coming out is like the scariest thing. It was like the scariest thing for me.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  I think people like all have a moment in their life where they have to come out. If it's like come out about having divorced their family, come out about changing religions, a breakup, you know, cheating on someone. There's just so many different things where I feel like people kind of have to just be honest with themselves and the people around them. So I think maybe that's why I've uh, been able to connect with a lot of different people, not just gay men and women.

• 27:45Lewis Howes?

  Amazing, man. What, um, what's next for you? What's, what do you want to come away from this experience?

• 27:51Speaker 01

  Well, the, first off, like the book would be a success to me if, if people like in middle America or places where it's a little homophobic where people can like pick up the book and read it and connect with it. And if I can hear back from those people and, and that it's helped them in some way, that would mean, at least to me, the book will be a success. But, um, you know, busy with soccer, obviously, signing another contract with the Galaxy and I'm hoping to Continue to play with them. We have the the Western Conference Finals coming up in Seattle, and hopefully we can win that game and get to the championships. And then I have the show that's on ABC, Universal's the studio and working with Craig and Neil, the guys that produce the Oscars and some amazing talented writers. So we're working on the pilot for that.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  And I don't know, I'm just trying to focus more on my relationships, I think, this next, this winter and the spring and kind of take some time to kind of figure out my life.

• 28:42Lewis Howes?

  It's kind of like you're reborn. You're like, you're like 10 years old.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  And I think, I mean, I'm sure you even felt that way a little bit when you shared your story. So you do, you feel like.

• 28:51Lewis Howes?

  It's like you've never really been in a relationship.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 28:54Lewis Howes?

  You've never experienced this.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  No, you you don't get to go to prom with your boyfriend. You don't go on your first dates till you're 25. You don't know who's supposed to pick up the check or who's supposed to open the. It's like the awkwardness of of dating as a 25 year old. You're supposed to do it, you know, obviously when you're like 13, 14, 15 and go through all that stuff.

• 29:10Lewis Howes?

  You learn for 10 years, you make lots of mistakes and you're doing it in a standard relationship. That's gay, you know, all with straight people.

• 29:16Speaker 01

  That's pretty public, so.

• 29:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, as opposed to.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, when you should be doing when you're like young and no one cares what you do.

• 29:22Lewis Howes?

  And it's even a different dynamics in a gay relationship, obviously, right? It's like, like you said, who picks up the check?

• 29:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, two guys. I know.

• 29:29Lewis Howes?

  What do you do? It's like.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I think.

• 29:31Lewis Howes?

  What are you learning?

• 29:31Speaker 01

  Personally, I think it's easier because again, it's two guys. It's like, you know, but.

• 29:36Lewis Howes?

  Do you split the check or do you?

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, we just split it.

• 29:39Lewis Howes?

  Whatever, whatever. Now, I don't know.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  We're still human.

• 29:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, right? So, I mean, what's it been like being in a, you know, experiencing relationships? And.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've learned a lot about myself. I've learned a lot about sharing a life with someone and being, you know, just not selfish, I guess, and trying to put someone else's needs before mine. But it's really difficult, especially when it's your first one, you know, it's you have to learn so much so quickly.

• 30:11Lewis Howes?

  You don't know what you're supposed to do, right?

• 30:12Speaker 01

  No, no, you don't. And and again, like you said, you, you know, for the first 10 years of dating, you like learn like, oh, this is good, this is bad.

• 30:19Lewis Howes?

  Know what you want, what you don't want.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 30:21Lewis Howes?

  But you're like, what do I want?

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Stand up for yourself and when not to and all this stuff. So I'm I'm learning that as I go as a 27 year old.

• 30:29Lewis Howes?

  Now, what is it you want ultimately in your life with a relationship? Or how do you want your life to look moving forward?

• 30:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's a good question. I love to be like inspired by what I'm doing with work. So like, you know, now I really love football, sorry, soccer. And I'll do that until I love it. And then when I don't, I'll stop. And to learn about, you know, the entertainment industry and doing this show with Craig Zaden, Neil Maren has been absolutely amazing. And the book process, I'm sure you know, because you're writing one now, is again, another process. You have to be honest with yourself and you have to work through a lot of things that you kind of put in the back of your mind. So it gets very emotional and again, very therapeutic because you're writing so much. So I mean, I want to always be inspired when I'm working. And in terms of relationship, that's tough.

• 31:14Speaker 01

  I think I just, you know, want to be with someone that I can learn from and I can hopefully teach something. And that is like, we both motivate each other and that we can sit and just be alone with each other for weeks or months. I think that kind of stuff is really important. But, you know, I'm still figuring it out, so I'll tell you when I figure it out.

• 31:37Lewis Howes?

  Perfect. And what would you say, what would your words of advice be to someone who knows they have to, they have something inside them that scares them? Whether it be coming out or cheating or lying or whatever it may be, when they feel trapped, they feel like only bad will come from them sharing or talking about it. They feel terrified of what the outcome will be if they do. They feel like their family will disown them, the school, sports team, coaches, the world, the media. What message do you have for people who have something inside of them they've been holding on to for years about how to let it out and why they should let it out?

• 32:17Speaker 01

  I, I, so, I mean, we kind of like touched the two points, I guess, that I, that I would say, I would say, you know, you need to find, or hopefully you can find someone away from your family, away from your school or from your team, that you can just tell, that you can just get all of those feelings, those negative feelings, you know, out and just to talk about it and discuss it. Someone that you can trust that's not going to tell anyone else. So, you know, a therapist.

• 32:38Lewis Howes?

  Trains, a licensed therapist whose confidentiality is.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  Exactly. They can't tell anyone. Someone like that.

• 32:44Lewis Howes?

  So maybe not someone associated with your family either.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  No, no, someone totally separate from your life. You know, someone in a different city that like doesn't know anyone that you know. Does someone that is legally can't, you know, talk about your business.

• 32:56Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 32:57Speaker 01

  And then I would say.

• 32:58Lewis Howes?

  What do you think that'll do for people when they take that first step and they at least tell one person?

• 33:02Speaker 01

  For me, like, once I told like one person, it just made me feel so good. And that like, wow, this is possible. Like I can talk about this. I can tell people. And people have compassion and will help you work through it.

• 33:13Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't have to control your energy and your mind.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  No, you're, it's, that's exactly right. It doesn't control your life, you know? And that's how I lived. I go to dinner with my family and I would have a cramp in my stomach. So I was afraid that they'd ask me about, you know, who I was dating or whatever, just something. And I'd have to, yeah, lie about it, divert, divert, or like do something weird. Exactly. That was a good answer that I used to have. But, and then also like, I mean, from what I've learned from experience, I understand, you know, not everyone's coming out as the same. Actually, a lot of people have, you know, really difficult experiences. But I, and my mom said this to me, she's like, Robbie, sometimes you have to give people that love you a chance. Like a chance to just love you and to, to give them a chance to, you know, to really know you. So, I mean, that's what I learned from this and I understand that's not everyone's case.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  But, you know, a lot of friends that I've, that I've had, that have come out and had initially bad experiences. Usually their family has come around and really loved them and we're a little embarrassed that they reacted that way. So I think you just gotta give people a chance.

• 34:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, what are they gonna do? Just own their, you know, son or something?

• 34:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean.

• 34:18Lewis Howes?

  And it probably, and it probably does happen sometimes.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it does happen. It does happen.

• 34:21Lewis Howes?

  Closed off parents.

• 34:22Speaker 01

  I mean, it really does happen, but if, if that's the case.

• 34:25Lewis Howes?

  You don't want to be around those parents anyways.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  It's dangerous for you to be around them. So, I know. So you have to build a network outside of that and build your family outside of that. But life is just too precious and too short. I know it's cheesy, but you can't just, you can't surround yourself with that kind of negativity.

• 34:38Lewis Howes?

  Man, well, so you've got a, you've got the book out right now. Everyone make sure to go check out the book. It's called Coming Out to Play. I'll have it linked up in the show notes. So make sure to go back to the show notes, check this out. Follow Robbie on Instagram, on Twitter, everywhere online. You've got a show also that you have an option right now, right?

• 34:54Speaker 01

  So ABC bought the show from Universal and now we're making the pilot.

• 34:58Lewis Howes?

  And it's about?

• 34:59Speaker 01

  It's called Men in Shorts and it's about like this guy that comes out in the soccer world and the sports world. And it's just like, it's a comedy. We're trying to teach people through, through laughter and through comedy and give an insight of how ridiculous the sports world is, you know, the banter of the locker room and traveling and how ignorant some people can be sometimes. But to laugh and play with stereotypes, you know, when you, when you see that stereotypes are sometimes so wrong and off and you can laugh at that. And sometimes when stereotypes are right on and spot on, we can just laugh about that as well. So, so this guy that comes out and, and you know, his team embraces him, but there's, you know, difficult trial and difficulties and him going on his first dates and all that craziness. And then his family's like really involved with his life. So it's, it's all that stuff. It's not like really, it's not based off my life. It's based off some of my experiences.

• 35:43Lewis Howes?

  Inspired by it.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  Yes, inspired. I think that's the term that ABC is using. Um, and so I'm helping with story and creating characters and I'm a producer on the show and I'll be, be working on wardrobe.

• 35:54Lewis Howes?

  Oh, tough life.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  I'm just kidding. No, I'm just, you know, trying to help out in any way I can, but the, the writers are amazing.

• 35:59Lewis Howes?

  Robbie's the best dressed man in soccer right now.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  I don't know. If David Beckham didn't retire, maybe he would.

• 36:05Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. Now you are though.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:07Lewis Howes?

  Um, couple final questions and check him out on Instagram, Robbie Rogers. You can see all the, the suits he wears. It's pretty, it's pretty good. Uh, a couple of final questions. What are you most grateful for recently?

• 36:18Speaker 01

  Uh, my real relationships. The people that like care about me regardless of being a professional soccer player, regardless of the book, the show or anything in the past, you know, people that actually, you know, if something bad happens, we're like, you can come sleep on my couch or, you know, just that really care about me that, that, um, that every, all the other stuff doesn't matter to them. So sometimes I get away from that stuff and when I get too busy with work or too busy with other things or get consumed with, with performance, you know, soccer stuff. And so sometimes it's nice to have a little like check, a little life check and to remember those people and, um, just to kind of be around them.

• 36:53Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Cool. Before I ask you the last question.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 36:56Lewis Howes?

  Which is what I ask everyone here. I want to acknowledge you as your friend.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 37:01Lewis Howes?

  That I want to acknowledge you for stepping up. And you know, not to play on words, but coming out.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:07Lewis Howes?

  And opening up and being a powerful leader in the world, man. Where so many people are afraid and I was afraid for 25 years to open up about my.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:16Lewis Howes?

  Inner, you know, demons.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:18Lewis Howes?

  I acknowledge you for having the courage to step up and allowing people to love you and bring you in and accept you because that's all I did and that's all of all your friends did. And I think it's takes a ton of courage. And you're an incredible human being.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 37:34Lewis Howes?

  I've always got your back and I'm so grateful that we're friends and grateful for you for doing this.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  Thanks so much. Um, I've have, I'm very lucky to have so many amazing people around me, including you. So you guys have all made my life so much easier and I always am sad when I hear stories where people don't have those kind of people in their life. So I feel extremely blessed in that way. Um, you know, because I couldn't have done it or I couldn't have been as happy at this point if I didn't have people like you. So thanks.

• 38:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, my pleasure. Final question. It is, what's your definition of greatness?

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Gosh, greatness. I think just to live up to your potential, to not be afraid to like take risks and just like be everything. And, and, and I think you have potential, but you also have to just work at it. So whatever your calling is or whatever your passion is to just take your talent and to work your ass off.

• 38:25Lewis Howes?

  Robert Rogers, you're the man. Thanks, brother.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 38:35Lewis Howes?

  There you have it, guys. Thank you so much for spending the last 45 minutes with us today and listening to this conversation between two friends about an honest conversation about his decision and how you can make a decision to open up about anything that scares you, any truth you may have. I appreciate you guys. I would love to hear your thoughts over on the blog over at lewishouse.com/110. That's 110. Uh, go make sure to check out all the links that we have linked up. About Robbie, how you can find him on his website, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. Make sure to follow him, give him some love. Check out his book, Coming Out To Play, it's out right now. Go pick it up at Barnes & Noble or on Amazon.

• 39:17Lewis Howes?

  It's a great read and definitely pick it up for, as a gift for a friend as well. Someone who loves sports this Christmas. So, thank you guys so much. Again, check out LewisHowes.com/110. Leave a comment on the blog. Share this with your friends. Keep me posted, let me know what you guys are up to. I love seeing you guys out in the world. Keep saying hi to me, give me a high five or give me a hug. I'm always down to say hi. Love you guys so much. You know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.