Holy Hypocrites & CON-version Crooks w/ Tan France

Laci is joined by witty and charismatic fashion expert Tan France (Queer Eye) to discuss the hacks and hypocrites who have joined the long list of anti-gay activists later revealed to be gay themselves. Plus, Laci asks: Are multistep skincare routines, fast-fashion dupes, and free trials a scam, a scheme, or the real thing? Stay schemin’! Keep the scams coming and snitch on your friends by emailing us at [email protected]. Be sure to catch Honorable Gays biweekly on Tan's YouTube channel and follow @honorablegays for more. And don't miss Deli Boys Season 2, now streaming on Hulu. Follow on Instagram: Scam Goddess Pod: @scamgoddesspod Laci Mosley: @divalaci Tan France: @tanfrance Research by Kathryn Doyle SOURCES https://www.cnn.com/videos/bestoftv/2013/06/22/ac-alan-chambers-interview.cnn https://people.com/gay-cure-minister-allegedly-tried-to-meet-minor-for-sex-11979375 https://www.mprnews.org/story/2012/06/28/gay-rights-advocates-protest-exodus-ministry-gathering https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/alan-manning-chambers-judge-finds-probable-cause-charge-solicitation-teen-boy https://www.advocate.com/politics/politicians/2015/05/29/16-antigay-leaders-exposed-gay-or-bi https://daily.jstor.org/ernst-rohm-the-highest-ranking-gay-nazi/ https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbtq-rights/george-rekers-ex-expert-witness https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-rekers-christian-right-leader-denies-gay-prostitution-allegation/ https://thingofthings.substack.com/p/weird-people-of-history-michael-bussee

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:00Speaker 02

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• 1:56Laci Mosley?

  What's poppin', congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess, back with another episode of the comedy podcast all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Sometimes we love them, sometimes we hate them. We will see along the way, but guests, you already know. Why I call y'all guests? At this point, y'all are guests on the show as much as y'all comment and send messages and DMs and emails, and I appreciate that. Congregation, y'all know I'm very what? Yes, excited, thrilled, elated for our first time guest today. You may have seen him on Honorable Gays, where he alongside Rob Anderson and Eric Sardaniyo judge messy Reddit drama. And you certainly have heard and seen him on Queer Eye,

• 2:39Laci Mosley?

  Next in Fashion, Deli Boys, Heads Will Roll, Princess Power, and so much more. Congregation, please welcome first timer, and certainly, hopefully, not the last, Tan Brand to the show. Hi, Tan.

• 2:53Speaker 04

  Hi, love. How are ya?

• 2:54Laci Mosley?

  I'm doing great.

• 2:56Speaker 04

  That was a gorgeous intro.

• 2:58Laci Mosley?

  Thank you. We like to give the girls our flowers, okay? And I've been watching you on TV forever, so it's so lovely to chat with you in person.

• 3:05Speaker 04

  I've got a feeling I joined TV when you were three, because that skin's making you look like you're a child. And I know, I know you are, you're very young. I've only been on TV for 10 years, and you just know, I'm not that old.

• 3:17Laci Mosley?

  Being on TV for 10 years is like, I mean, well, you started when you were a zygote, you know what I mean? They took you out of the womb, and they said, this face? Television. Okay, so Tan is a baby.

• 3:29Speaker 04

  That's not true. If the audience is listening, you don't know what I look like. Just Google it, and you'll see that's not true. I have a face for radio.

• 3:38Laci Mosley?

  No, no, absolutely not, but we love the humility. We love a little fake humble moment, okay? You know, you're giving the girls hope, that maybe one day they'll have skin like Tan, okay? They'll have that full, luscious head of hair.

• 3:50Speaker 04

  I will say this, I know my skin's tight. I'm 43, and it looks pretty darn good. And I've now got weirdly blonde hair, but it's a very full head of hair, so I know I've got that going for me.

• 4:01Laci Mosley?

  Yes, and Tan, this is also not a concerning blonde. Sometimes like, when my homeboys will go blonde, I'll be like, is something going on in your life? Like, it's just like a very wide no thing in certain gay communities. If you see somebody that hair bleached blonde, you'd be like, what happened to you?

• 4:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mine's a gray blonde. Mine's like, oh, was he naturally blonde? The answer is no. South Asians are not naturally blonde.

• 4:22Laci Mosley?

  You are now, okay?

• 4:24Speaker 04

  Now I am.

• 4:25Laci Mosley?

  Boxware.

• 4:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:26Laci Mosley?

  It's like women with bangs. If one of our homegirls cuts their bangs, we're like, what hap- what did he do? What did she do? What's going on?

• 4:33Speaker 04

  I need you to know that straight girls will always ask their gay friends, and let me tell you, the gays have told you enough, don't do it. They look great for a little while, but you're gonna cry to us when it's not looking good when they're grown out. You ju- it's every, like, it's textbook.

• 4:50Laci Mosley?

  We're gonna do it anyway.

• 4:53Speaker 04

  Insufferable. That's the one issue I think the gays have with their female friends. We love our fe- I love my girls. I'm a girl's gay. One hundred percent. You've got two different kinds of gays. You got a gays gay and a girls gay. I'm a girls gay. But I will say the one gripe I have with my girls is stop asking me about those damn bangs, because you've learnt your lesson, or you should have learnt your lesson. Our friend group is big, and every one of you, I've told, don't get bangs, because you're gonna come crying to me in six months' time. You just are.

• 5:19Laci Mosley?

  I, I always say, girl, they got clip-in bangs now. You don't have to learn like we did back in the day, okay? I am on Real Housewives of New York with bangs that I cut myself, looking like what I've been through, okay?

• 5:29Speaker 04

  Were you one of those, um, one, one of those, what, I don't know, in, in, instead, like, uh, Vine girls? Who cut their bangs and let us all see? You cut your bangs and you made the fucking mistake of doing it too short?

• 5:40Laci Mosley?

  Okay, no. See, I learned from them. I learned from them. I was on the other end of the camera, and I was like, okay, so I gotta twist the hair, and I gotta bring it past my brows and cut it here, because when you curl it, it's gonna be like, babe. Otherwise, you're gonna get that one time Beyonce had that one bang that was like above her eyebrows. You know what? She could do it because it was fashion.

• 5:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:59Laci Mosley?

  On the streets.

• 6:01Speaker 04

  I don't know when people are gonna learn. Like, have we not seen enough of those videos to know, why are you pulling your hair down to cut bangs? Also, why are you cutting your own bangs?

• 6:11Laci Mosley?

  Because I had a bang feeling. I can't have a bang feeling tan, okay? Life gets hard and sometimes a girl needs blinders. Okay, she needs something right in front of her eyes.

• 6:21Speaker 04

  That's fine, that's fine. Well, see, you're saying right now.

• 6:24Laci Mosley?

  I'm not looking at this bullshit. I need things.

• 6:26Speaker 04

  You're saying right in front of your eyes, that's fine. If they're in front of your eyes, you're doing great. But if they are closer to your natural hairline than they should be, that is a problem. That is a deal breaker.

• 6:37Laci Mosley?

  You've now turned that into teenage hairs. They're not baby hairs quite, they're not adult hairs. These are teenage hairs that you have on your forehead.

• 6:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's rough.

• 6:45Laci Mosley?

  Oh, it's rough. But you know, it's a rite of passage. It's a rite of passage. And speaking of rites and passages, this is the worst segue I've ever done. But on the show, Tan, we love to get our guests' opinions in the segment that I call, is it a scam, a scheme, or a real thing? So I'm gonna ask you about three different subjects and you let me know if you feel like it's a scam, which would be something that should absolutely be illegal or is. Is it a scheme where it feels scammy sometimes? Yeah, shady. Sometimes it can work out, but it's shady. You know, it's like an alleyway. Maybe you go down the alleyway and you do get that faux-furking bag in Chinatown. Or maybe you go down there and you get hit in the head with a lead pipe. You don't know.

• 7:28Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 7:29Laci Mosley?

  And then a real thing is something that we think legitimately belongs in society.

• 7:33Speaker 04

  Great.

• 7:34Laci Mosley?

  Okay.

• 7:35Speaker 04

  Oh, we should see more of.

• 7:36Laci Mosley?

  Yes.

• 7:37Speaker 04

  Okay, get real.

• 7:37Laci Mosley?

  So my first one for you, just to keep on the skin, because we were talking about this beautiful skin that you have, Tan. Multi-step skincare routines, are they a scam scheme or a real thing? So by that, I mean like when you wash your face at night, you got the toner, the retinol, the serum, the vitamin C, the water, moisturizer, you're using wash, you got the... Do I seem too familiar with this?

• 8:06Speaker 04

  I've got a feeling that you're about to come for me so hard. Because I am, I am that person that does all of that. And I don't think it's a scam. I think it's, well, it's the last one, real one. Everyone should be doing it. Why are you not doing? If you're not doing at least a five-step routine, morning and night.

• 8:25Laci Mosley?

  And they're five. You gotta have five.

• 8:27Speaker 04

  At least five, no?

• 8:29Laci Mosley?

  What are your five, Tan? What are your five?

• 8:31Speaker 04

  Okay, I'm talking about, like, fuck me, five is basic. Wash your face. But wash your face.

• 8:37Laci Mosley?

  Okay, I don't think washing counts. I think everybody should wash.

• 8:41Speaker 04

  I know some dirty bitches that don't. So that has to be, I'm sorry, it has to be one. So wash your face with some kind of cleanser. Um, and then the basics, toner, serum, moisturizer. Extra moisturizer, you've got some kind of peptide would be so nice. I mean, at least a retinol and then your moisturizer. So that's basic five. But then you've got those nights like twice a week where you wanna do a face mask. You wanna do an LED red mask. Um, oh my gosh, what else do I wanna do? Sometimes um I wanna uh do a lip plumper uh whilst I sleep and keep that lip plumping mask on. And there's so much shit that you could do. Five basic. If you're gonna do the five basic and you've got problem skin, like, that's your problem, not mine.

• 9:26Laci Mosley?

  Oh, that's a word. Okay, I kinda skew into, I I can be a scheme. Unfortunately, I could rattle off all those products, Tan, because obviously I have them. Here we're, here's where it comes a little scheming to me. I have a, I have the red light mask and I have the collar that goes on your neck and your upper.

• 9:45Speaker 04

  Oh, I don't do that shit.

• 9:47Laci Mosley?

  Chest itties, chest itties.

• 9:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:49Laci Mosley?

  Uh, to keep them, you know, looking as fresh as possible.

• 9:52Speaker 04

  Not creepy, yeah.

• 9:53Laci Mosley?

  But and I have the one that like the the esthetic esthetician recommends it. But my issue is is that every time I go and get a facial and I I leave with several products. And at one point, I think I had like a twelve step skincare routine.

• 10:08Speaker 04

  Too much.

• 10:08Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, it was too much and my skin started to react and was like, girl, girl. And here's my, here's why I think it might be a scheme, Tan, though. Like, Tan, I love that you use these products. I use these products too. But genetics has so much to do with what your skin looks like. And I feel like people with your type of skin are always the ones in the commercials splash your water on their face out the sink, getting the whole bathroom wet. And then we all start thinking we're gonna have skin like Tan if we buy the whole line. And I think that's a little scheming.

• 10:38Speaker 04

  Okay, you know, you are absolutely, no, no, okay, that's not even just a bit scheming, that's a bit scammy. Okay. Uh, if we're really gonna work on the definition, here's my issue, is if you're going for a facial. I think the scam is getting you to buy those products that you use at the facial. Because that facial shit that they do, like when you go to somewhere nice for a facial, they're not just using basic fucking products. Like they've got, they've got tools, like they've got like proper tools. Don't tell me that I'll be able to keep this up with these, as you said, twelve products at home. Get the fuck out of here, bitch. I know you're, no, I know I can't. And so that's the scam. I never buy the product from the facial place. I will get the facial done and then I will still use my products.

• 11:23Speaker 04

  My facial is just for like a spruce before a big event. I can't do it maybe once every three or four months. It's not a regular thing. And definitely don't fall for the scam of buy this shit because you're gonna be able to do it at home. No, there's no way you're getting this look at home.

• 11:39Laci Mosley?

  Oh my gosh, I, I, I fully fell for that scam. I, um, I have a facial steamer. Like you name it, I, I got it for the face, babe.

• 11:47Speaker 04

  Oh, you're crazy. What, sorry, we should, we should have established that earlier.

• 11:55Laci Mosley?

  I'm sorry, Sam, we didn't tell you that in the pre-interview.

• 11:57Speaker 04

  No, I'm sorry, nobody warned me of that. Oh shit, yeah, yeah. I can't help crazy like that. I, I ain't a therapist.

• 12:07Laci Mosley?

  Yo, I'm being attacked, congregation help.

• 12:11Speaker 04

  A steamer? What the fuck are you using a steamer for?

• 12:14Laci Mosley?

  To open the pores.

• 12:16Speaker 04

  Get out of it, get out of it. No, you, you were scammed. I bet that was expensive too, wasn't it?

• 12:23Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, uh, you know it was, along with my LED red light and everything else.

• 12:28Speaker 04

  Also, I think that LED red light might also be a scam.

• 12:32Laci Mosley?

  You have to get the right one. There's some that don't have enough frequency to actually give you the collagen boost.

• 12:37Speaker 04

  Oh, you drank the Kool-Aid. Well done. Um, I will say that there are a lot of like derms, or like dermatologists on Insta who will do the review of all the shit that we use and say whether it's good or not. They all do say the red light mask is good, but you're right, if you get the right one. I might not have the right one. I just waited till someone gifted it, so it might not be the best one.

• 12:58Laci Mosley?

  I mean, it might be good. It might be good.

• 13:00Speaker 04

  It's fine. I think there's one of those things that we think is working because it's modern technology, but really isn't.

• 13:06Laci Mosley?

  I, I, it does sometimes feel a little bit um like a placebo. But what I will say is that it involuntarily gives me some relaxation time because when I have that mask on, I look like Jason Voorhees. And I have to just like at least sit still for twenty minutes. So.

• 13:21Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:21Laci Mosley?

  Maybe I'm just regulating my nervous system and pretending that my skin is getting better from.

• 13:26Speaker 04

  No, no, regulating your nervous system might be helping your skin.

• 13:29Laci Mosley?

  Oh, it actually does. Stress acne is real. Maybe that's the whole scam of it all.

• 13:34Speaker 04

  That's it. So really, you don't need that. You just put some earphones in and some kind of relaxation mode and you're absolutely fine. Yeah. Don't spend the money on the red light mask. I don't think it makes that much of difference.

• 13:44Laci Mosley?

  I don't either, but I will say like there's certain things in your skincare routine that can help with your skin. But also it is genetics and it's also diet, guys.

• 13:52Speaker 04

  Diet's a huge one for me.

• 13:54Laci Mosley?

  Gut health.

• 13:54Speaker 04

  I know you didn't ask that question, but I'm going to tell you anyway. I did warn you. I talk a lot. I don't drink soda. I eat really healthy. I try not to eat as you chug your soda. Well done.

• 14:04Laci Mosley?

  This is water. This is water, Tan. Oh, my goodness.

• 14:10Speaker 04

  And I always have drunk a shocking amount of water since I was a teenager. I had really bad skin as a teen. And so my mom was like, drink a lot of water, stop with the soda, stop with the fried food and you'll be great. And it's amazing what it does. So. For like before you invest in that red light mask that's going to cost you hundreds and hundreds, maybe just put the diet coke away.

• 14:30Laci Mosley?

  Put the diet coke away, lay off the alcohol and and get those good gut health foods. It's good for your mental health as well.

• 14:37Speaker 04

  Pickles, pickles, pickles. I know this is going to sound so ludicrous, but a lot of pickles are really good for your gut.

• 14:42Laci Mosley?

  Fermented foods, kimchi. Get you some arugula. Get you some of them leafy greens, bookey.

• 14:48Speaker 04

  It's the reason why those Japanese kids are looking so damn good. Like they eat so much fermented shit. Yeah.

• 14:53Laci Mosley?

  Oh, my God, Tan, should we make like the Korean skin diet? Have they made it yet?

• 14:58Speaker 04

  No, they haven't, but let's launch it.

• 14:59Laci Mosley?

  Korean skincare is bomb.

• 15:01Speaker 04

  Have you been? Have you been soul?

• 15:03Laci Mosley?

  Not yet, but it's on my, on my list.

• 15:05Speaker 04

  My list. I just have.

• 15:06Laci Mosley?

  I want the fried chicken there, too. Because black American soldiers introduced um

• 15:10Speaker 04

  I do know that.

• 15:11Laci Mosley?

  Korean people to frying chicken during the war. And then Korean people took that shit and ran with it.

• 15:19Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, this is crispy art.

• 15:20Speaker 04

  I know. I would love to join you in that, but I don't eat meat, but I love that for you. I love that for you.

• 15:27Laci Mosley?

  I'll send you a bed.

• 15:28Speaker 04

  Thank you so much. I do like to watch people eat, so I will happily watch you eat that food.

• 15:32Laci Mosley?

  And also I do like a mukbang too.

• 15:34Speaker 04

  I do love a mukbang.

• 15:35Laci Mosley?

  So your final vote for multi sub skincare routine scam scheme, real thing. Okay. Okay, and I'll put it lighter clothes. Yeah, real thing scheme is real thing slash scheme. I would agree with you there.

• 15:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:48Laci Mosley?

  Okay, what about this one? Um scam scheme or real thing tan? Fast fashion slash dupes. So what I mean by that is like when something comes out, you know, on a runway or we see it at a Met or we see it on an actress or it's in a popular television show. And then a brand like a Shein or a T-Moo remakes it or even a Steve Madden, because Steve Madden loves

• 16:13Laci Mosley?

  You know, so do we think that's a scam, a scheme or a real thing?

• 16:20Speaker 04

  I'm gonna say scam, but my perspective is different from yours.

• 16:23Laci Mosley?

  Okay, let me hear. Let me hear.

• 16:24Speaker 04

  Okay. I'm gonna plead my case and you can tell me whether you think it's a scam, a scheme or a real.

• 16:30Laci Mosley?

  Okay.

• 16:31Speaker 04

  So I was a designer. I I guess once a designer, always a designer.

• 16:36Laci Mosley?

  Of course.

• 16:36Speaker 04

  Designer and I used to make women's wear. Um and that's how I started my career. And I had brands that made women's wear and I would design something called private label where I would design a full collection. Nordstrom, Target, Forever 21 would come and look at that collection and say, okay, can you make this bra store in this color? And this print, which I would have available. Yep, sure. And then I'm gonna put your label in it. But then what I found was a bunch of companies would then knock off my product. So I was the designer, they would knock off my product and they would then sell it for less and sell a heck of a lot more.

• 17:12Laci Mosley?

  Oh.

• 17:13Speaker 04

  As far as I'm concerned, that's a scam because you're fucking with my money.

• 17:16Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 17:17Speaker 04

  But you you you like you fully fucked with my money like there's people aren't just buying my shit now because mine's slightly more expensive than your shitty quality version.

• 17:26Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 17:26Speaker 04

  And so I see it as a scam, but I think I only see it as a scam because I was at the top of that pyramid. If I were the sheen or the team or even the customer, I'd be like, now I'm getting a bargain, like I'm getting a deal. So that's the real one.

• 17:40Laci Mosley?

  Okay, I I.

• 17:41Speaker 04

  So you're gonna have to give me your opinion.

• 17:43Laci Mosley?

  So I agree with you about stealing from artists when it comes to their like their intellectual property. And unfortunately, it's the wild, wild west when it comes to like clothing in in general, because like everything that's been made has been made before. So making something that's kind of similar to somebody else's work that is more affordable and probably extremely lower quality is not obviously not a new thing and not technically illegal.

• 18:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:15Laci Mosley?

  Um, but when it comes to like hardworking artists, like I remember the big scandal about like uh Kim Kardashian's like or not Kim, but Khloe Kardashian's clothing line had a lot of dupes of of smaller designers. But they had like physical receipts and evidence of the company. I don't know if Khloe knew about this, but the company Good American like ordering things from smaller designers and then, you know, picking them apart and then making them for their brand.

• 18:39Speaker 04

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 18:40Laci Mosley?

  So I don't I don't agree with the intellectual property theft and that to me is definitely a scam. I I lean towards scam scheme because there have been so many times that I was in a in a high in college or high school wearing a Steve Madden dupe of a Manolo. I had no idea. I was like, oh, cute shoe, but I had no idea. Steve was like, hold my beer, LBMH.

• 19:01Speaker 04

  Yeah. I agree with that. I don't think you, I don't think you, the customer is ever the problem. Like they're not the scam.

• 19:08Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 19:09Speaker 04

  Uh, they're not the scam at all. They're not even the scheme. They're the real one. They want the thing for less money. I absolutely agree that the customer is the real one, but the br- the company that's knocking off, knocking off the designer is the scam. It's a duo. And I don't know if you asked for a duo, but it's a fucking duo. Two things can be true.

• 19:27Laci Mosley?

  Two things can be true. I think you've, you've unlocked our first duo and I think that you are absolutely right. Especially because I look at like a Steve Madden going for like a high end corporation and giving something accessible to the, you know, the girls on the cul-de-sac who also want to be fashion girlies.

• 19:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:43Laci Mosley?

  You know, the girls, you know, in the apartment complexes. I'm in an apartment. You know what I mean? We ain't got that mansion, so maybe we're not buying the thirty thousand dollar boot. But you know, if Steve Madden got the same looking boot, I can still give thirty thousand without spending that, right?

• 19:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:57Laci Mosley?

  So scamming up like that, that doesn't bother me because the rich company is still getting, they're, they're getting their consumers who are not going to step foot in Steve Madden. You know what I mean? It's a, and vice versa. But I think what you're talking about, Tan, being a small creator and then them taking from you.

• 20:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:12Laci Mosley?

  Now that's where it gets very scammy for me.

• 20:14Speaker 04

  And that's the most common, just so you know, that is the most common where they're taking from the small creator because they're like, no one knows this bitch. Like who cares? Like, no, that's that bitch's living. Like, yeah, that's a bitch's living. Also, what I'm also going to position this, sorry, this is not meant to be a PSA. But I will say.

• 20:28Laci Mosley?

  We love it though.

• 20:29Speaker 04

  Also, you don't need the dupe of that fancy thing. I've always said, I'm going to say it again. If you can't dress well cheaply, you can't dress well.

• 20:38Laci Mosley?

  Oh, period.

• 20:38Speaker 04

  You don't need that knockoff of that Louis Vuitton thing. Create something. I used to fucking create my own shit all the time. When I was in high school, I was broke. I came from a poor family, really poor family. I didn't have money until I was in my mid to late twenties. And I'm talking about even a bit of money into my mid to late twenties. So I was broke as a joke. I created shit like. Be unique, like you don't need to have that same thing that everyone else has got if you can't afford it. I I think that sometimes not having the funds makes you so much more creative and stylish. I walk around the streets of New York, looking at these kids, I know they can't afford shit, like I can tell they're students, but they look more creative and stylish than any fancy bitch I see on the Upper West Side, Upper West Side.

• 21:20Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, expensive doesn't equal chic. And I definitely had to learn that. Also, you're right, but sometimes the less resources you have, the more creative you are.

• 21:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:29Laci Mosley?

  And then, and you can sometimes see the difference between like, someone who grew up and is in our industry and didn't have as much, and someone who grew up in the industry who came from everything.

• 21:37Speaker 04

  One hundred percent.

• 21:38Laci Mosley?

  It's like, our brains just work a little differently because we're a little bit more resourceful because we had to be.

• 21:42Speaker 04

  Agreed, agreed, agreed.

• 21:44Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, so I'm I'm definitely on the same page with you on that. Although I will say this, what pisses me off, and I think y'all getting scammed out there is, uh, young people, um, or younger than me people, because we're young people. I'm so tired of seeing y'all look like y'all fell in a bin at Goodwill, and then I find out that every piece on you is a high-label fashion thing. Like, I know it's kitschy sometimes to get something that's like ripped up or whatever from a designer, like, it's like they're like wink at that, but I'm like, girl, if you don't take yourself down to a thrift store and and get that outfit, and it'll be probably better made, because this wasn't whipped together in these raggedy-ass factories, the crap that they're giving us now.

• 22:19Speaker 04

  But every time I see Balenciaga or Vetmont, I'm like-

• 22:21Laci Mosley?

  That's what I was thinking about!

• 22:24Speaker 04

  I'm like, I could have found that in the trash behind an Arby's.

• 22:29Laci Mosley?

  Now, they gonna drag me because I know I stay in a speed sneaker.

• 22:33Speaker 04

  Fine, still. They may have one or two things that are nice, but yeah, the majority of it, I'm like, you just saw a homeless person on the street and knocked off that person's look.

• 22:42Laci Mosley?

  Knock out their whole look.

• 22:43Speaker 04

  That whole fucking look.

• 22:45Laci Mosley?

  That's wild as hell.

• 22:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:46Laci Mosley?

  Okay, yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you. I will say this, though, shout out to the products. I know we're just talking about skincare. If you girlies want to get into a step routine and you don't want to spend a ton of money, uh, local drugstores, um, I read somewhere that like Elf, um, is really good about waiting until a patent, um, has to release their like ingredients.

• 23:07Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:07Laci Mosley?

  And as soon as they do, Elf will make a dupe of that, same ingredients, way less expensive. And so you can be doing your La Mer routine with less expensive products.

• 23:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:18Laci Mosley?

  And, you know, get you a little five step. And this is for men, too. I don't care if you date men, women, if you're pan, whatever. I don't know who put the scam propaganda out there for straight men that being hygienic was unattractive.

• 23:32Speaker 04

  I know.

• 23:32Laci Mosley?

  To women, but if I see a man who smells good and his skin is glowing and his nails are manicured, I'm immediately like,

• 23:42Speaker 04

  Ooh, ooh.

• 23:50Speaker 04

  Can I, how gross can I be? Can I be disgusting on your podcast, Lacey?

• 23:54Laci Mosley?

  Yes, you can say it with everyone.

• 23:55Speaker 04

  Thank you so much. You know, you just unlocked something that I've been dying to talk about, but I've never, ever said publicly, because it's disgusting.

• 24:03Laci Mosley?

  Oh, God.

• 24:04Speaker 04

  No, I'm sorry. Everyone who's listening, I'm so sorry. This shows you who I really am. I've just, they edit me to make me seem chic on TV. There's nothing fucking chic about me.

• 24:12Laci Mosley?

  You are so chic.

• 24:14Speaker 04

  No, not, nothing chic about me. I have thought this so many fucking times. I've said this to my girlfriends. You want a man who takes care of himself. Sorry, I'm gonna get very disgusting.

• 24:25Speaker 04

  You do not want that man putting his hands, fingers. On you or, this is the disgusting part, in you. In you. If those fingers are not fucking taken care of, you want to make sure that he, if you can't see that he's done at least the most basic skincare routine and that his hands are clean, washed after every toilet use, perfectly manicured, not, I don't need a polish, I just need it to be clean. You don't need that shit in you. You do not need that man's hands in you. And I know you're like, I want a real man. Do you also want a disease in your vagina? Because you're gonna get it with that real man.

• 25:00Laci Mosley?

  You're gonna real, you're gonna real, you're gonna fix it.

• 25:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's gonna make you real, real.

• 25:04Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I think straight men listen to other straight men too often about what women want. And I'm like, baby, and this is gonna tie into our whole episode, but I'm like, baby, you trying to impress the wrong people. And you might need to discover why. I'm trying to impress them because the first thing I look at on a man and I'm pansexual. So men and women, I don't ever, I really don't have to worry about women. But the first thing I look at on a man is his hands.

• 25:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, I want to know.

• 25:28Laci Mosley?

  It's not the muscles that you juiced up. It's not all that protein that you got to get your traps. I'm not looking at your delts, I'm looking at your hands.

• 25:36Speaker 04

  That's that, I'm going to tell you something that is gonna, there's uh, there's something that I'm about to say that's going to make me seem very, very harsh. I don't think I'm harsh, I just think I'm honest. So I'm very British, which means we're a little more forward. There was a man, this was in the Delta Lounge, it's called the Sky Club. It wasn't too long ago, there was a man who used the restroom and it wasn't one of those restrooms where there are like restrooms within the restroom where they've got their own sink, it was just stalls, just stalls. This guy had very clearly dropped a deuce. Came out, came out and walked right past me as I was stood in the mirror washing my hands. And I saw him and he was like, hey, because he knew who I was, was like, hey.

• 26:19Speaker 04

  He walked out, went to some girl, don't know who the woman was, but I'm assuming it's somebody that he was romantically involved with. And as I walked out, I saw him with her and they were both staring as if, oh, that's so fancy, we say hi. And so I walked over and I said, I'm so sorry to say this, but um, he just used the bathroom to wash his hands. Enjoy the rest of your meal. Because I would want some bitch to do me that same solid thinking, you ain't putting your hands in me bitch. You are not putting your fingers in me with, without fucking washing your hands first, you dirty bastard. I'm a girl's girl.

• 26:54Laci Mosley?

  Yes, you are a girl's girl, no mile high for him, okay? Like, wash your hands, also the double embarrassment of being a fan of your work, Tan. And then be like, oh my god, Tan's approaching us. And then you think he about to get you a selfie, you got to take that photo where you point into the celebrity and the celebrity's like, hey baby, uh, you got hella, hella fecal germs on your hands, okay? Don't share no finger foods with Bookie, okay? Bookie got the dookie hands, okay?

• 27:20Speaker 04

  Typically, I'm always smiley and I would never do it, but I just watched this poor girl and I just thought, you two are intertwined, like that boy's gonna try and touch you soon, dirty bastard, dirty bastard.

• 27:32Laci Mosley?

  Community, we, we, shout out to community, I love that for both of us. And our last scam scheme, a real thing before we get into the hoodwink here is free trials.

• 27:45Speaker 04

  Go on.

• 27:46Laci Mosley?

  So you know, if you sign up for a subscription service, let's say, you know, it could be a streaming service. It could be like any, any apps on your phone. Yeah, where they give you a free trial. You know, you want that face editing app because you're trying to snatch up that face or that body. You want the extra Pro Plus, the airbrush, cam or whatever. And they give you that free trial. Do you think that's a scam scheme or, or a real thing?

• 28:09Speaker 04

  It's a total fucking scam. How do we not, have we not seen that? If they don't take your credit card details, that's just a real one. Yeah, give me that free thing for a week. I would love that free thing for a week. But if you're asking for any of my details, even just my email, because you're going to bombard my email.

• 28:26Laci Mosley?

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:27Speaker 04

  With a bunch of offers and whatever. If you are not asking for anything in return, you're just like, I enjoy this for a week, bitch. I'm like, oh, you're a real one. But no one's ever doing that. They always want your credit card details, always. And you know, you fucking know, we're all way too busy to cancel a membership after a week. You were never going to remember that. No, I know that people say, well, you could just put a reminder on your phone. Bitch, get the fuck out of here. I'm putting a reminder on my phone about a fucking trial membership, you know, it's not going to happen. You know that I'm going to have to pay at least a month, you cheeky bastards. You know what you're doing, it's a scam. It's a scam, it's a scam.

• 29:03Laci Mosley?

  Yep. I recommend if you have an iPhone, I don't know what it is, on Android, I think it's just like the App Store as well. But like, go in there, look at subscriptions and see what you're subscribed to and look down the list. Because you'd be surprised, something might still be charging you. There's also reputable ways to go through your bank to see how many prescriptions are coming out of your account monthly. I recently did that and started cancelling hella shit. Um, but there's a way to do it.

• 29:26Speaker 04

  PayPal, I've had a PayPal membership for about fifteen years. And I know it comes out of my account, but I have no idea how to stop it.

• 29:34Laci Mosley?

  PayPal's one of the hardest. I have subscriptions that go to PayPal and PayPal won't even line up your subscriptions for you. You have to go through the payment things that are being like extracted. Sometimes your Apple apps won't even show you all that, um, subscriptions that you have. You really have to do some forensic research to see who's starting nickel and diming you. Um, I also recommend having a fake spam email. I have an email from Yahoo, that's where all of my clothing accounts, all of the things go to for the advertisements. Because I might want the discount or I may want to send all my receipts there, but I don't want them in my real work or personal email. So everybody, you need an email. I used to call it like a, like a porn signup email. You need an email that ain't like serious.

• 30:12Speaker 04

  I think you're a type A bitch like me.

• 30:14Laci Mosley?

  I don't know.

• 30:15Speaker 04

  You're a type A girl.

• 30:16Laci Mosley?

  I'm very type A.

• 30:17Speaker 04

  Now that sounds very type A to me. And we're crazy in the best way.

• 30:23Laci Mosley?

  I might have some, uh, some type A tendencies flowing around, but I'm very type B, baby. Tan, get to know your girl, okay? I lose everything.

• 30:32Speaker 04

  Really?

• 30:33Laci Mosley?

  Oh, yes. I literally this week, um, I had a flat tire and so luckily I just got my car detailed and across the street, there was a place that sold tires. So I go and I get a new tire and the guy's like, okay, your tire, your car is ready to go. So I get in my car and I drive away and I have a push to start. So you have to have the keys in the car to like start the car. So I start the car, I drive away. I'm driving home, I'm on freeway, whatever. I stopped to the bank to deposit some stuff. I'm trying to park my car at the bank and lock it and I'm like, where are my keys? I just got my car detailed, right? So it's very clean. So I'm looking around the car, I'm like, did I drop them? Did they fall through the seat? I got my phone flashlight on, I'm like looking, looking, looking, looking, looking, looking everywhere. I'm like, where the hell did I put my keys? And my car doesn't run without the keys. So I turn it off, turn it back on, it's still running. I'm like, where the fuck are these keys?

• 31:17Laci Mosley?

  Tell me why. I finally get out of the car and I notice that the keys have, have slipped in between the window and the front trunk of my car. So I drove on the freeway with my keys sitting outside of my car.

• 31:36Speaker 04

  That's insane.

• 31:37Laci Mosley?

  The mechanic who changed my tire, put my keys on top of my car and I just drove away.

• 31:44Speaker 04

  That's insane. I can't believe it worked. Mine, mine has to basically be fucking on the, the push button for it to work. That's insane that yours worked outside the car.

• 31:53Laci Mosley?

  You know where the windshield wipers are? It slid into that pocket. And so I just saw on the freeway with my keys willy nilly outside of the car.

• 32:03Speaker 04

  How the fuck did you find those? I would never have thought to look there. That is wild.

• 32:07Laci Mosley?

  Because I'm type B and I was like, where, what's the equivalent of leaving something in the refrigerator?

• 32:12Speaker 04

  No, no, no. That's type A bullshit because you knew where to look. I never would have thought of that. Wild.

• 32:17Laci Mosley?

  No, I only know because of shenanigans. Once you find your remote control in your refrigerator once, you know what's going on in your life. You know, you know yourself, you gotta look at unexpected places.

• 32:27Speaker 04

  That's fair, that's fair, that's fair.

• 32:30Laci Mosley?

  But yes, free trials, guys, just use the app for what you need it for and then immediately cancel it right then and there. Now, a few apps or things will only let you do that a couple of times before they're like, oh, no, girl, you locked in now.

• 32:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:43Laci Mosley?

  But I do think that-

• 32:44Speaker 04

  No, because then they know you're the scammer.

• 32:46Laci Mosley?

  Yes.

• 32:46Speaker 04

  And they need to be the scammer. They can't have you scamming.

• 32:49Laci Mosley?

  You're not robbing us. We robbing you. What do you think this is? Yeah, it becomes a Spider-Man meme. Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. But I do think if you don't use an app very often and you just need it for a very specific thing, go ahead and get that free trial and then immediately, once you're done.

• 33:02Speaker 04

  100% do it, but you're gonna have to find a way, I just haven't, because I'm too lazy of a person, to find a way to remind yourself. Otherwise, you're fucked for a long time. They're gonna charge you a lot.

• 33:12Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Do it right then in the moment. Use the app and then immediately delete it. Unless you think you're gonna use it, then I don't know, I guess, give them people their money.

• 33:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:21Laci Mosley?

  Yes. Well, those were amazing revelations, Tan. Thank you so much. I've learned so much about you and about the schemes. Now, we're gonna get into the main event of the episode. This is called Historic Hoodwings. This is where we regale Tan with a famous con caper group of criminals we don't know yet. Maybe we love them, maybe we hate them, but for sure, we will laugh at them, but never at the victims, because there should be no shame around getting scammed. Life is a scam. We're all getting got at some point, okay? And hopefully, this will prevent us from getting scammed.

• 33:56Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 33:57Laci Mosley?

  So before we start, I do want to give a content warning up here. You know, we like to lead with love, life, and crime over here, not get too dark, but the topical story that triggers this roundup does involve soliciting sex with a minor. We won't be getting into any details there, but just so you know, we don't want to re-trigger or re-traumatize anyone. You all know how this podcast goes. But in the subsequent list of scammers, we try to curate out the more disturbing crimes. So if you're interested in those types of things, like, you know, the links are always in our footnotes, but we're gonna keep it scam-related here. Just want to let y'all know. Okay, so, here we go. Historic hoodwink. Today, ten, we're talking about Alan Chambers first.

• 34:38Laci Mosley?

  The former gay cure minister who was arrested for soliciting sex with an underage boy has joined a long historic list of anti-gay activists who later came out or were outed as gay. We do not condone outing, even if like it's a really vicious scammer on this podcast. That's still your choice. Um, I will say as a gay.

• 35:02Laci Mosley?

  I don't condone outing, but I'm not a purist when it comes to getting my lick back. Um, so.

• 35:10Speaker 04

  I don't even know what lick back means. What does that mean?

• 35:14Laci Mosley?

  So, uh, like getting your lick back means like if someone were to like hit you, right? They, they, they hit you with a lick, right? Like a lick can be a robbery, like you, you catch a lick, like, which means like you go rob people. So people might get their lick back, like revenge, basically.

• 35:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay, okay.

• 35:30Laci Mosley?

  But it can be physical. It also can be like, I'm robbing you. Or it can be like, oh, you talk shit about me. I'mma, I'mma put your shit on the front street. Yeah. So it's just getting your revenge. I can just say revenge.

• 35:40Speaker 04

  No, I'm gonna, no, I like lick back and I'm gonna stop using it. Go on.

• 35:44Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, get your lick back. Absolutely. But I'm saying that because I'm sorry, if you're anti-abortion, if you're anti-gay, which to me personally, I don't know why you in other people's business. Mind your own. Mind your own. There's so much business for you to mind. I am so bogged down by the minutia of life every single day. I don't know where y'all find time to hate. Okay. I gotta do my laundry. I don't got time to be a bigot. Like.

• 36:06Speaker 04

  Same.

• 36:07Laci Mosley?

  So, but, so when they are gay, I, which I don't like to label them all as closeted homosexuals because I think that's also negative to be like, oh, someone's homophobic. All of a sudden like they must be gay. Like they're not synonymous.

• 36:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 36:20Laci Mosley?

  Um, but when you got too much interest in the business, I'm like, like over here, somebody.

• 36:25Speaker 04

  You're protesting too hard. Yeah. Yeah.

• 36:28Laci Mosley?

  So Alan. Grew up in a Southern Baptist church in the nineteen seventies and eighties where he felt ashamed for his secret attraction to men. Makes sense, Southern Baptist, they don't let you dance.

• 36:39Speaker 04

  No.

• 36:40Laci Mosley?

  They don't let you drink. I don't think they, like, I'm from the South. I'm a missionary Baptist. I don't think that they let you, you gotta wear skirts to church. I don't think you can wear makeup. I don't think you can have alcohol at your wedding if you real Southern.

• 36:51Speaker 04

  Whoa.

• 36:52Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. It's like Footloose over there.

• 36:55Speaker 04

  She, I thought all Christians except the Mormons were allowed to drink. Wow.

• 36:58Laci Mosley?

  They, they got some strictness, if you're a real Southern Baptist. So Alan claimed to overcome his gayness. He said he was delivered.

• 37:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, so many of them.

• 37:09Laci Mosley?

  And became the president of Exodus International, one of the largest conservative Christian ministries. They love to put an international after it because that's one thing, like, I don't think any religion is better than another. And that includes choosing not to believe. Um, I think it's a casino. Put your money on whatever you want to put your money on. Me personally, I got a little coin on every religion, you know, if it's, if it's Buddhism, I'm gonna get up there and I'm gonna be like Buddha was good. You know, if it's reincarnation, I'm gonna be like, can I be a rich lady's dog?

• 37:40Speaker 04

  I show, I show everyone respect because you never know how it's gonna end.

• 37:45Laci Mosley?

  Never know. Allah, I'm do Allah. What's up? We in here too.

• 37:49Speaker 04

  That's right. That's right.

• 37:51Laci Mosley?

  If I get up there, it's Judaism, I still believe in God. Jesus, is he around here? If it's Christ, I was with Jesus as well. That was the sun, whatever it is. I'm a scare. I'm trying to get in. Whatever up there, I want to be in his house.

• 38:03Speaker 04

  Same, same.

• 38:03Laci Mosley?

  So, but I will say that Christians are, we're the absolute worst when it comes to like spreading religion. Like, nobody asks you to convert them. Like, stay at home. In Judaism, you gotta go knock on their door. You have a, hey, hey, can I?

• 38:17Speaker 04

  The Christians really do love missionary work.

• 38:21Laci Mosley?

  That's because it's all about capitalism and owning things. That's why priests can't marry because they don't want no land from the church going to any other lineage. That's where it comes from. It's not religious.

• 38:33Speaker 04

  It is wild that they really do go all over the world. I'm like, just stay where you are.

• 38:37Laci Mosley?

  Just stay where you at, nobody ask.

• 38:38Speaker 04

  Locally. No.

• 38:40Laci Mosley?

  Also, also, I think you are doubting God if you gotta go spread the gospel. Because why you think God can't get over there and get a bush burning? He good? He ask you to do that.

• 38:49Speaker 04

  One hundred percent.

• 38:50Laci Mosley?

  So, but of course, he's involved in this, right? Alan is. He's the president. And he addressed the subject of homosexuality from two thousand one to twenty thirteen. The followers believe that same-sex attractions were sinful and should be either forcefully changed or just repressed forever.

• 39:07Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 39:08Laci Mosley?

  And that it was better to manage your temptations. We've seen this before.

• 39:13Speaker 04

  Works so well.

• 39:14Laci Mosley?

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:15Speaker 04

  Do that, yeah.

• 39:15Laci Mosley?

  Just don't be who you are.

• 39:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Be a completely different person to lie your whole life. Yeah, but.

• 39:20Laci Mosley?

  Right. Oh, God made you in his image, but like, he said, uh, put some of the files behind the paywall.

• 39:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yep.

• 39:29Laci Mosley?

  So for a time Exodus International promoted the gay cure, a conversion therapy and pseudoscientific practice of trying to change a person's sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression to align with their heterosexual and cisgendered norms. And their slogan was, "Change is possible." Uh, that's not very inspiring.

• 39:49Speaker 04

  Uh, was in parentheses, "Just kidding," or "Tricked you, bitch," or "No, it ain't," or any of the above. Cause it's bullshit. Absol- oh my God, I love the "Change is possible." Is it? Was it for you? Cause I hate it still sucking dick behind closed doors. Is it?

• 40:05Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, you just changed locations. We saw you in the park, babes. Is it possible?

• 40:09Speaker 04

  You're just hiding it from people. That ain't change. You just got better secrets.

• 40:13Laci Mosley?

  And also, one thing I do find hilarious about bigots is they never have any good messaging, any good comedy, any good fashions. Like, you couldn't come up with a better slogan than "Change is possible"? What about "Pray the gay away. No gay today. Uh, gay no way."

• 40:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, man. Make it more entertaining.

• 40:33Laci Mosley?

  I was gay yesterday.

• 40:35Speaker 04

  But not today.

• 40:37Laci Mosley?

  But not today.

• 40:41Laci Mosley?

  Put that ass in the past. Come on, give me some.

• 40:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something sassier. God, it is always a real fucking snooze fest that makes you think, "Why would I wanna go there?" Like, wouldn't you wanna attend somewhere fun? But yeah, they get it. They wanna pray the gay away.

• 40:55Laci Mosley?

  Y'all not even making straightness look fun. I think that's the biggest gripe that bigots have with pride, is that, one, pride is actively political because being.

• 41:05Laci Mosley?

  Queer has been a political statement because it was politicized and we've been persecuted. So it is supposed to be a political statement and a celebration. It's not about sex. It's about the right to exist as a human being. And but what bigots see and take away from it is just like, everybody's dressed so well. Is that glitter? They got the best music, they dancing. Why everybody got abs?

• 41:27Speaker 04

  Why they seem so happy? Yes, yeah, yeah. Like, try letting go of it and you might be happy too. Yes, they do look like they're having fun. Try it. You might leave this fucking group and no longer be the president, you miserable fuck.

• 41:40Laci Mosley?

  Because every celebration of heterosexuality is quite stiff.

• 41:43Speaker 04

  Snooze fest. I mean, you're talking about the Republican National Convention. Yeah.

• 41:47Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 41:48Speaker 04

  It's real stuff. However, they're loving that grinder.

• 41:50Laci Mosley?

  They do. That grinder be on fire anytime Republicans get together, okay? They're busy, okay? I'm sure the app has to keep track of just like Republican national events and be like, we need more data.

• 42:03Speaker 04

  They do. No, legitimately, the guy did like some talk recently and said, it's amazing how much manpower we have to put in to the surrounding areas of wherever that convention is. Because we know it's going to be fucking next level. It's their busiest time of the year. And I just think, hey, you guys, the calls coming from inside the house, maybe stop bitching about the rest of us and focus on yourselves. You're the problem, not us.

• 42:26Laci Mosley?

  And also, I feel like at this point, it would just be better for all of the queer, you know, whatever you are on the spectrum, people to come out in politics and be like, yeah, everything's cool. We all doing it. And then just let that be that. I feel like fighting against it is making it so much harder.

• 42:42Speaker 04

  Same. It's insane. And I think, look, I don't agree with your politics, but you can still be that political party and suck a dick. That's fine. It's fine. No one's gonna judge you.

• 42:51Laci Mosley?

  Not for that, okay? I will judge your politics, but everything else.

• 42:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, everything else. But no one's gonna judge you for sucking. Just enjoy it.

• 42:59Laci Mosley?

  Yes, I agree. Heavy on the agree.

• 43:06Laci Mosley?

  So obviously, there's no scientists like or scientific evidence that change is possible. You're just traumatizing.

• 43:15Speaker 04

  I can tell you, there is zero scientific evidence.

• 43:19Laci Mosley?

  Yes.

• 43:19Speaker 04

  The scientific evidence that makes it clear, it's not possible. But go on.

• 43:24Laci Mosley?

  So conversion therapy is under consumer fraud, by the way. It is where it belongs. And the Supreme Court recently turned over some conversion therapy policies in Colorado, which we do not like to see. But it's a scam and it should be an outlawed medical practice.

• 43:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 43:44Laci Mosley?

  So like, it's not the term that doctors use because it's not really therapy when they talk about conversion therapy. And it can involve lots of methods from prayer to electroshock therapy, brain surgery, exorcisms, castration, hypnosis, and a 12-step program called Homosexual Anonymous.

• 44:03Speaker 04

  Get the fuck out of here.

• 44:04Laci Mosley?

  Now, I've always wondered, especially in the camps that take on men, male, men of any ilk, these conversion camps, aren't you just rounding up a bunch of gay men in the woods?

• 44:16Speaker 04

  Do you know what?

• 44:17Laci Mosley?

  Because that feel like where I'm gonna find my husband.

• 44:19Speaker 04

  Do you know what? This is so controversial to say, but I'm not talking about the extremists. I'm talking about the ones that were just chit chat. Like the, like the, I've got quotes, everyone, the therapy ones. I'm like, wait, if they're just trying to talk the gay away or pray the gay away? As a kid, I thought, whoa, I want to go to one of those because everyone's gay and I'm probably going to meet my husband. Like, where better to go? Now, if you are forced to go to those, shocking, and it's a trauma that I can only imagine.

• 44:45Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 44:46Speaker 04

  But if it's one of those where it's just like a chit chat and you have the choice to go, I'm like, yeah.

• 44:52Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, if it's voluntary, I might want to dip a towel just to see what's going on.

• 44:56Speaker 04

  I just want to see what the talent fucking like.

• 44:57Laci Mosley?

  But the ones where they ship you away, your parents sign you away, obviously, those are horrific. They're all horrific. They're all horrific. But I would be interested to see who's showing up voluntarily for these meetings.

• 45:07Speaker 04

  But if there was like a local church, I live in Salt Lake City, Utah. If there was a local church down the street that said, do you want to come and talk about what it looks like to maybe pray the gay away? I'd be like, yep, I do.

• 45:17Laci Mosley?

  Don't they have that one show in Utah about the Mormons who are married to the gay men?

• 45:22Speaker 04

  Um, yes, but that is not actually the show. The show is called Secretized Mom and Wives. And those men aren't, I don't think they're out.

• 45:31Laci Mosley?

  No, but they call it SSA, same-sex attraction, like it's a disease. And then they'd be like, I have SSA, but I'm, I'm in a straight life. And I'm like, sir, I feel bad for you.

• 45:42Speaker 04

  To be fair, I don't think they've ever said that about the show, but a lot of people, a lot of people assume that those husbands are homosexual.

• 45:51Speaker 04

  I love how you're just out here, fully outing.

• 45:54Laci Mosley?

  I thought that they said it. It came across too clear to me on screen. I was like, we're all in Greece, right?

• 46:00Speaker 04

  Same, same, no.

• 46:02Laci Mosley?

  And, and, and unfortunately, the ones that we're talking about, they all tend to skew to the cruel, unusual, inhuman torture. They are banned in Canada, Brazil, Ecuador, Spain, Germany, France, Malta, and New Zealand. However, in the US, it's still legal in many states. That's why I brought up Colorado. Even for young people, but it's legally considered consumer fraud because you're not getting what you paid for. You leave just as gay as you came.

• 46:27Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 46:28Laci Mosley?

  And this came from a 2015 court case in New Jersey. So they brought it all the way to the court. And I want to know who went to a lawyer and was like, I am still gay. I want my money back, bitch.

• 46:39Speaker 04

  However, that is so the kind of pay shit I would have done back in the day if I would have been sent to any of those, if I'd paid to try and get the gay away. I'm like, I know it's not possible, but then I'm going to sue these bitches. Yeah.

• 46:52Laci Mosley?

  Right. I'm on the same page. I feel like I would be like, uh-uh, bitch, I just saw Tessa Thompson and the loins was loining. Give me my money back. Give me my money back.

• 47:05Speaker 04

  Especially if I knew that it was just one of those voluntary ones, I would pay knowing that I was gonna sue. If I was broke, if I was broke, I'd be like, okay, I know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna get rich quick. I'm gonna go to that thing. I'm gonna give them my money and then I'm gonna sue them because it's not possible.

• 47:21Laci Mosley?

  Yep. I'm coming back to court with a girlfriend and a neck brace and I want my money today. This is how we scam them back. Sue them. So back to Alan. Alan married a woman named, Alan's our exodus, international gay president. So, so Alan married a woman named Leslie and adopted two children. He wrote three books, including My Exodus, From Fear to Grace, God's Grace and the Homosexual Next Door. The homosexual next door.

• 47:56Speaker 04

  God.

• 47:57Laci Mosley?

  This is, this is a full title. God's Grace and the Homosexual Next Door. Colon. Reaching the heart of the gay men and women in your world. Now, why you got to go bother the gay people? What you mean they next door, you gotta go bother them? He wrote a whole book on bothering gay people. Please be serious.

• 48:16Speaker 04

  Whoever his wife is, his friends and family, they could have at least.

• 48:20Laci Mosley?

  Look, this is her wi- this is his wife. That's Leslie.

• 48:22Speaker 04

  I see Leslie.

• 48:24Laci Mosley?

  Leslie drives a Subaru and she loves making canoes in the backyard.

• 48:30Speaker 04

  I know, it's.

• 48:31Laci Mosley?

  This is lavender, if I've ever seen lavender. I can smell the lavender marriage through the screen.

• 48:36Speaker 04

  I could smell lavender too.

• 48:37Laci Mosley?

  And they adopted kids, they ain't never bumped ugly.

• 48:40Speaker 04

  No.

• 48:40Laci Mosley?

  Nope.

• 48:41Speaker 04

  She never wanted to. She's like, bitch, stay away from me. Um, I, uh, I'm, I'm a little concerned that no one said to him, obviously his friends hate him. None of his friends said, you know what, love, you might want to reconsider that title. That's a long ass title. No one's gonna read that.

• 48:56Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 48:59Laci Mosley?

  Also, reaching the heart. Why do you have to reach the heart of them? And I think that's because he want to hang out with his community. That's why he's so involved. He was like, how can I be with the gay community? But also have the Christian bigot still on my side.

• 49:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:12Laci Mosley?

  Okay, I'll go over there and admonish them. I know I have to go to the abbey because I need to tell the gays what they're doing is wrong. Yes, I tip the go-go dancer because I want him to come down and pray with me in, in the VIP.

• 49:26Speaker 04

  I'm sucking up the go-go dancer. I'm just doing that so they understand how wrong it is. I want them to see how wrong it is.

• 49:32Laci Mosley?

  Once you have sex with a straight person, you become straight too. That's what I'm doing for the community.

• 49:37Speaker 04

  That's right. That's right.

• 49:39Laci Mosley?

  And the last book title here, speaking of long ones, Tan, here's another one. Leaving Homosexuality: A Practical Guide for Men and Women Looking for a Way Out.

• 49:50Speaker 04

  Uh, I don't think you should have said looking for a way out. They're out.

• 49:55Laci Mosley?

  They're out. You're looking for a way in.

• 49:58Speaker 04

  You're looking for a way out. They're not looking for a way out. You're looking for a way out, sir. Oh, that poor bastard.

• 50:04Laci Mosley?

  Right. You're looking for a way out of the, the bigoted Christianity that you're a part of.

• 50:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're looking for a way out of the closet. You just have the stuff to do it. So you're pretending you're not gay at all.

• 50:14Laci Mosley?

  Also, a way out of what? Can we please stop acting like the gay community is having welcome parties? We are not trying to convert anyone. We're not like, oh, you came over here and you was gay. Don't leave. We're not robbing anybody. There's no way out. Just stop, stop having sex with same-sex people and you're out. What do you mean?

• 50:31Speaker 04

  Also, a way out of what? Joy? Happiness?

• 50:34Laci Mosley?

  I think that's why.

• 50:35Speaker 04

  Authenticity, self-expression? Like what? A way out of what?

• 50:39Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 50:40Speaker 04

  When you come out, yeah, almost every, I don't think I've ever met one person who's like, you know, I wish I were back in the closet. I feel less free. Get the fuck out of here. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah.

• 50:52Laci Mosley?

  No, said no one ever.

• 50:54Speaker 04

  It's hard coming out.

• 50:55Laci Mosley?

  To go be in a snooty or a suppressive place where everyone's judging you constantly and you can't be yourself. No one has ever been like, let's walk into that.

• 51:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, no one's looking for that. So, no, they don't need a way out. They're perfectly happy once they're out.

• 51:10Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. No, do you want to join this prison? Way back in the closet. Come on in. It's terrible.

• 51:16Speaker 04

  It's like he wrote that title for himself. Poor bastard. But also evil bastard. What an evil bastard.

• 51:23Laci Mosley?

  Cause like, you could have just enjoyed your life, but instead you're so miserable, you're hell-bent on making others miserable. So you can get that company. So in 2011, Exodus International released an iPhone app. Promoted, I hope they had a subscription, a little free trial.

• 51:37Speaker 04

  Free trial, yeah.

• 51:38Laci Mosley?

  Promoting the idea that homosexuality can be cured. It was later removed from the App Store. What am I supposed to do?

• 51:44Speaker 04

  Choke.

• 51:45Laci Mosley?

  On pray to gay away? Like every time I get a gay feeling, I get on the app?

• 51:50Speaker 04

  Oh, no.

• 51:51Laci Mosley?

  Our gays in your area. Run, run. Like, what is this? In 2012, Allen backtracked on conversion therapy and stopped using the term gay cure, admitting that the methods usually didn't work. And in 2013, Exodus International dissolved completely. So he did give this up, which I'm glad.

• 52:08Speaker 04

  However, I need to pause you. He said, usually doesn't work? How many times did? You're using the word usually wrong. Tell me how many fucking times it worked? How many times did you convert somebody from gay to straight? Give me the exact numbers.

• 52:23Laci Mosley?

  I feel like the usually was for him to give himself some kind of, you know, absolution.

• 52:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:29Laci Mosley?

  Absolve himself, rather.

• 52:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:32Laci Mosley?

  So he knows never, but he can't say never. He was doing it for like three years.

• 52:36Speaker 04

  It was his whole life, yeah.

• 52:38Laci Mosley?

  It was his whole life.

• 52:38Speaker 04

  It was his entire personality, it's all he got.

• 52:41Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, he was doing it longer than that, I think about a decade. So, um, Allen never changed his public beliefs, though, that, you know, this is not in the Bible, which like, y'all don't read the Bible, because there's a lot of stuff in there that if we did it, y'all would be dismayed.

• 52:54Speaker 04

  I love them, people, so this side note. I love them, uh, uh, I'm gonna say Americans, even though I'm American. American Christians, uh, will talk about other religions as if they're so damaging. Like, have you seen what it says in the Quran? I'm like, it says basically the same thing in the Bible, bitch. How stupid are you?

• 53:09Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. Most of us who are smart know that a lot of those allegories, we're not gonna actually do that. My dad didn't try to sell me off, you know, for the family. You know, like, there's a ton of things in there that we don't want to do, okay?

• 53:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:21Laci Mosley?

  So, um, he was arrested, Allen, in Florida, May, after a month's long sting operation in which he was messaging an undercover detective posing as a 14-year-old boy. He was using Snapchat, Telegram, text, and he did send a picture of his penile at one point. So not only was Allen found a fraud for promoting a belief system that, one, he does not adhere to, and, two, absolutely does not work, but he was also...

• 53:50Laci Mosley?

  Doing this solicitation of a minor. I'm so glad that the person that he was soliciting was an undercover cop and that it was a sting. I love a Chris Hansen moment because then the actual children aren't getting involved, but we're getting your nasty ass off the streets. Period. Sit down with your wine coolers, bitch. You're going to jail tonight. Love it.

• 54:10Speaker 04

  He should really have written more books about how to start being a pedophile as opposed to a gay person. Cause that's the major issue we've got here, sir.

• 54:17Laci Mosley?

  Cause these are two separate things.

• 54:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, massively two separate things.

• 54:19Laci Mosley?

  One of them is normal and beautiful. The other one is a fucking crime and disgusting.

• 54:23Speaker 04

  And that's exactly it. Like you're focusing on the thing that's not an issue whatsoever as opposed to you being a fucking dirty bastard.

• 54:31Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. Nobody is welcoming pedos into their community with open arms, as they should not be. Okay. That's what you need to worry about. So with these alleged crimes, Alan joins a long line of historic hypocrites, anti-gay activists who have turned out to be the very thing that they were trying to outlaw. You were too hyper fixated on it. Like, why do you care? Also, I'm not even worried about the, you being a bigot is not at the top of the list now. You trying to harm children is at the very, very top of the list. Put your ass down in prison. And don't try to claim that it has anything to do with homosexuality because you did that weird shit on your own. Okay?

• 55:03Speaker 04

  And I know I shouldn't encourage this, but they're gonna treat you real right in prison, darling. They're gonna treat you real.

• 55:09Laci Mosley?

  Like, and I, I hope for it to be consensual, but maybe that's where you need to be so you can be your living your truth. But actually, when if they find out what's on your jacket, and a jacket is basically, I, I got some, you know, I got some criminals I'll be chatting with. A jacket in prison is basically like your medical forms, what you're in for, all of that. If you don't tell people what you are in for prison for, you don't have to worry. The guards will either tell the gangs or they'll get your jacket and they gonna start whooping on your ass for harming women and children. So that's what you deserve.

• 55:39Speaker 04

  Especially with children. I'm like, yeah, get the bastard.

• 55:41Laci Mosley?

  Yep, get them. So Exodus founders ended up marrying each other, right? So the two people who founded it, um, who, so remember Alan was the president. He's the creep who went to prison. And, but the founders of Exodus International, um, which was the principle, right? That gay attraction could be cured. They ended Up marrying each other. Michael Bouset and Gary Cooper, not the actor from the western movies, a different guy. Met while working on a crisis hotline at Melody Land Christian Center, an evangelical Christian church. They were both married. Gary has two children while Michael was soon to be a father and both identified as former homosexuals who had been cured.

• 56:22Laci Mosley?

  Together, they founded Exodus International that Alan's creep ass was the president of. Which was the largest ex-gay organization and they intended to turn gay people straight. They were popular speakers on the evangelical circuit, their families vacationed together.

• 56:39Speaker 04

  Sure they did.

• 56:39Laci Mosley?

  Families vacationed together. I'm sure y'all did a lot of boys time. Left the wives with the kids and went and had boys time.

• 56:50Laci Mosley?

  And they moved their families into the same apartment complex. Gary and Michael's wives were best friends.

• 56:57Speaker 04

  Course they are.

• 56:59Laci Mosley?

  They left, they left the group to be in a relationship with each other in 1979. They divorced their wives and participated in a commitment ceremony in 1982. And they lived together until Gary's death in 1991. In 2007, Michael issued an apology for his involvement in promoting orientation change through Exodus. So Michael did come back and apologize.

• 57:24Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 57:24Laci Mosley?

  But here's my thing, and this, this goes across men of any sexual orientation. You know what, I'm just gonna have to maybe attribute this to whiteness first, but I'm gonna start with white men. I am so exhausted with a white man's personal problem.

• 57:44Laci Mosley?

  Their own self doubt or self hatred, their own inconvenience, their own issue having to become the world's problem. It is one of the biggest plagues that has been around for centuries. Is, I mean, we're dealing with it right now in Los Angeles with Spencer Pratt. That weird ass bitch ass white man's house burned down and he had no fire insurance. So now I gotta deal with him for six months.

• 58:09Speaker 04

  You know what's fucking crazy, though? People fall for it every fucking time.

• 58:14Laci Mosley?

  Every time.

• 58:14Speaker 04

  How stupid are you? Look what happened the last time we fell for some clown. He's now running our country.

• 58:20Laci Mosley?

  Yes. Donald Trump didn't get enough hugs from his dad and his weird, his weird looking ass family. And they only gave him a little tiny one million dollar loan to start off his grifting scheme.

• 58:31Speaker 04

  I know.

• 58:32Laci Mosley?

  And, and, and the left, the liberals, the cool people, never let him sit at the table. Or give him no casino gambling licenses. And now the whole world has to suffer.

• 58:42Speaker 04

  That's right. And we didn't learn our lesson. Even in California, didn't learn their lesson. And now they're propping up all Spencer Pratt. I need to know Pratt means something else in England. Do you know what Pratt means in England?

• 58:55Laci Mosley?

  No, but I would love to, so I can use it.

• 58:58Speaker 04

  Pratt basically means you're a fucking dick. It just means a fucking a-hole. Absolute fucking Pratt. Like, he's usually a guy, and it's like that tool, that fucking a-hole that you're every circle's got, every community's got a fucking a-hole. That's what a Pratt is. Of course, his name's Spencer fucking Pratt.

• 59:16Laci Mosley?

  Accurate name, perfect name, right on the nose for me. Yeah, I mean, I guess this apology is out there. At least he took the opportunity to apologize. But at the same time, you spent most of your life with your loved one, trying to ruin other people's lives. And I don't know if a I'm sorry is gonna help with that.

• 59:36Speaker 04

  I'm gonna say this, which is shocking, brace yourself. Back in the day, I know it was a lot harder for them to be who they are naturally in the seventies, eighties, nineties. So I understand that it's hard. However, that didn't mean that you had to go and take that and use it against your own people. I understand it was hard. But even an apology now isn't really gonna cut it. You could have just dealt with your own shit and not inflicted pain on others.

• 1:00:01Laci Mosley?

  And unfortunately, hurt people hurt people, but white men do it on a much larger scale. It's not just their families that they're hurting. They're also gonna reach out into the communities and try to hurt others. If they're an ambitious hurt person, oh, we're all in for a world of trouble. Cause they get up every day and that's why they open their eyes. It's like, how can I inflict pain on others today?

• 1:00:22Speaker 04

  I can't be the only, I can't be the only afflicted one. Somebody else has gotta be punished.

• 1:00:26Laci Mosley?

  I always say those types of people, if you can't look in a mirror, baby, they looking out the window. What y'all got going on?

• 1:00:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:32Laci Mosley?

  I can't face myself. So I'll be all in your shit, okay? So now let's move on to Dr. George Rikers. So in the year 2000, the state of Florida, a lot of Florida going on here.

• 1:00:45Speaker 04

  I mean, that can't be a surprise to any of us.

• 1:00:47Laci Mosley?

  Florida is so embarrassing, like truly. In the year 2000, the state of Florida hired Dr. George Rikers, which perfect last name because you wreck and shit, to defend the state's ban on adoption by gay couples. Arkansas hired him for the same job in 2004 and he did it again in Florida in 2007. He was a professor of neuropsychiatry at the University of South Carolina and ordained Baptist minister.

• 1:01:12Speaker 04

  Tell you.

• 1:01:13Laci Mosley?

  And he co-founded the Family Research Council.

• 1:01:16Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 1:01:16Laci Mosley?

  I mean, I guess like, this makes sense to me because I be at the gay club on Saturday and sometimes the church on Sunday. It does feel like I'm in this.

• 1:01:27Laci Mosley?

  What does that more rules? So he was an officer and scientific advisor for the National Association of Research and Therapy of Homosexuality.

• 1:01:37Speaker 04

  Can I stop you for a second? I feel like I know where the story's gonna end, but I just need to ask, did anyone look at his hard drive and did they find kiddie porn on there? Ding ding ding.

• 1:01:47Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:48Speaker 04

  Always the fucking case.

• 1:01:50Laci Mosley?

  Mark.

• 1:01:51Speaker 04

  Always a fucking gay. Sorry to jump the shark. Please continue on.

• 1:01:55Laci Mosley?

  Now, yep, because he was trying to ban gay people from adopting children, remember?

• 1:01:58Speaker 04

  Of course, yes. Yeah, of course, yes.

• 1:02:00Laci Mosley?

  Where's his thoughts coming from? So he said the gay parents were a danger to their children. So it was shocking, not to us, that he was caught coming home from a European vacation with a male escort named Lucian, who he found on rentboy.com in 2010.

• 1:02:15Speaker 04

  Shocker.

• 1:02:16Laci Mosley?

  What the hell is rentboy.com and why the hell has the government not shut that down? I just feel like the government in general should just be searching online sketchy ass titles for websites and, and going straight to those people's IP addresses in their homes. Like, please be serious.

• 1:02:30Speaker 04

  We can track American citizens for fucking any random bit of shit. Like, we're always being tracked, yet we can't find these fuckers. Do you know why? Well, I was about to say to everybody.

• 1:02:40Laci Mosley?

  Because they're, because the people who, who, who would be tracking them are likely, uh, involved.

• 1:02:46Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:02:47Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. So at first George said he hired the man to carry his luggage because he just had surgery. You know how you gotta go on rentaboy.com?

• 1:02:55Speaker 04

  I always.

• 1:02:56Laci Mosley?

  And then they carry your luggage back.

• 1:02:58Speaker 04

  I always have prostitutes with me because I find it difficult carrying my bags. So yeah, I always have prostitutes.

• 1:03:03Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, they don't have nobody who works in TSA who does that. Don't worry about that. No. You can't hire like a car company. No, no, no, no.

• 1:03:09Speaker 04

  Poor old guy, yeah.

• 1:03:10Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. So he said he wasn't able to lift anything. I feel like he was lifting something, George. He also tried to explain himself with a Facebook post. He said, I deliberately spend time with sinners with the loving goal of trying to help them. Remember we said that's what they do is so they can be around the people they want to be around.

• 1:03:25Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:03:26Laci Mosley?

  He resigned from North and hasn't been hired as an anti-gay expert witness since then. So.

• 1:03:33Speaker 04

  Something doesn't seem right. How's he not an expert on this?

• 1:03:38Laci Mosley?

  He is an expert on it, but like not for the reasons that they wanted him to do it. And so as far as we know, there's no involvement with any, like the escort was of age, it seems. I'm not getting any flags there, but I'm sorry, rentaboy.com.

• 1:03:51Speaker 04

  Still.

• 1:03:52Laci Mosley?

  Sounds like, sounds like you involved in this stuff that she was talking about. And I would argue that a queer, gay couple or lesbian couple wanting to adopt are gonna be some of the most loving families. Because if they can't conceive and they really want a child, they want that child.

• 1:04:07Speaker 04

  That wasn't an accident. I know many a straight couple who've had an accident. And I know a lot of shitty straight parents, a lot of shitty straight parents. Whenever I hear that fucking argument, I get it constantly, constantly online. Oh, those poor boys of yours. I'm like, bitch, watch how I raise my kids and watch how beautiful I am with my kids. And I see you with yours and I'm gonna watch out for your neighbor's daughter, you dirty bastard.

• 1:04:31Laci Mosley?

  Right. Because they, they, they still, there's still the straight adage of like, oh, boys are easier than girls. I'm like, yeah, because you don't raise them and then they become our problem.

• 1:04:40Speaker 04

  That's absolutely right.

• 1:04:41Laci Mosley?

  How are y'all raising kids? And then they're always like, oh, queer people, gay people want to put their agenda onto our kids. And it's like, you're the one asking your four-year-old if they have a girlfriend.

• 1:04:51Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 1:04:52Laci Mosley?

  After they get, leave, you know, preschool.

• 1:04:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:55Laci Mosley?

  Like, who's doing it?

• 1:04:56Speaker 04

  With every one of these people, just like with this fuckwit, every one of these people, I'm like, show me your fucking hard drive. Show me your fucking hard drive. If you're thinking about what I'm doing to my kids, I want to know what's on your hard drive, you dirty bastard.

• 1:05:09Laci Mosley?

  Because what makes you jump in your logic to that being the immediate thing that these people would do? And a lot of times, we're projecting our own thought process onto other people. That's why the internet is just so insufferable now.

• 1:05:22Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:05:22Laci Mosley?

  You know, the famous meme that's like, oh, someone says, I love pancakes. And then and someone's in the comments like, so why do you hate waffles?

• 1:05:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:30Laci Mosley?

  Like, bitch, that's a whole different sentence.

• 1:05:32Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:05:32Laci Mosley?

  You think about waffles. I'm talking about pancakes.

• 1:05:35Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 1:05:37Laci Mosley?

  We have two more before we get out of here. Richard Curtis. So Dick Curtis, Richard Curtis, Republican Washington State legislator.

• 1:05:46Speaker 04

  Oh, I thought you meant the director. I was like, what's your, what's your director doing?

• 1:05:49Laci Mosley?

  I was literally about to say, not the director of Love Actually.

• 1:05:52Speaker 04

  I was gonna say, he's the nicest guy. I love that guy.

• 1:05:54Laci Mosley?

  No, Rick Curtis is great. We're gonna call him Dick Curtis. We're not gonna put no shade on Rick Curtis's name, okay?

• 1:06:01Speaker 04

  Richard Curtis is wonderful. Thank you so much.

• 1:06:02Laci Mosley?

  He's wonderful. Dick Curtis is who we talk about.

• 1:06:04Speaker 04

  What's his dick doing?

• 1:06:05Laci Mosley?

  Dick Curtis, the legislator, okay? He repeatedly voted against gay rights measures in his state. He voted in 2005 and 2006 against the bill that granted civil rights protections to gays and lesbians, and in 2007, voted against a bill that created domestic partnership for same-sex couples. The same year, he was in Spokane for a retreat to discuss the upcoming legislative session. However, he went to the Hollywood Erotic Boutique on October 26th and met an escort named Cody, who accompanied him to the Davenport Tower Hotel.

• 1:06:38Speaker 04

  Let me guess, he, it's just because he's such a good Christian, he wants to read the Bible to this person and tell them that this was a sin and I'm gonna help you get back onto the straight and narrow?

• 1:06:47Laci Mosley?

  And they had to go to the hotel because, you know, hotels have the Bible in the nightstand drawer.

• 1:06:52Speaker 04

  That's the only place you can find the Bible.

• 1:06:54Laci Mosley?

  So that was the only place he could find the Bible at 3:30 a.m.

• 1:06:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 1:06:59Laci Mosley?

  At the hotel, in the drawer.

• 1:07:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:01Laci Mosley?

  So they could have you a popcorn breather.

• 1:07:03Speaker 04

  What a good Samaritan. What a good Samaritan. I bet his parents are proud.

• 1:07:06Laci Mosley?

  So they arrived at three thirty a.m., you know, to read the Bible.

• 1:07:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:10Laci Mosley?

  They had sex so you could show what you're not supposed to be doing.

• 1:07:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:13Laci Mosley?

  And after which Richard Dick, excuse me, Dick fell asleep. The escort said Dick agreed to pay him a thousand dollars for the sex and then reneged on the deal. Not you stealing. You're stealing. Mm hmm.

• 1:07:27Speaker 04

  Also, I know this is harsh, but when you look like that, everyone, I'm looking at a picture. When you look like that, you need to offer more than a thousand dollars for that boy to have sex with you.

• 1:07:36Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, for anybody to have sex with you with that matter, like your, your lips are giving like more. Like it's giving extra when they pull the drawer out of Law and Order, like it's, are you alive, sir?

• 1:07:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:49Laci Mosley?

  Cause your lips aren't.

• 1:07:50Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:07:50Laci Mosley?

  Tell your lips that they, they, they need circulation because they're not getting it. You imagine them little crusties on you that, that seventies porn stash. Oh, oh, this is a community service. You owe him a lot more than a thousand dollars. Buy Cody a home.

• 1:08:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:04Laci Mosley?

  And, and some eye wash or something, you know, like, I don't know.

• 1:08:07Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:08:08Laci Mosley?

  Ooh, I would have eyes closed just not, I could, ooh, association top ten. Baby, that face, please. When Dick decided that he was gonna not pay the escort, Dick called the police. Now you gonna call the police on the escort. You, Dick, we need to whip your ass. Dick claimed that he wasn't gay and accused Cody of extortion, but later told prosecutors he wanted the charges dropped. Dick resigned his seat in two thousand seven. So you know, if you work in politics, I would imagine your rapport with law enforcement is probably stronger than the average person.

• 1:08:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:42Laci Mosley?

  He's calling his dogs out on Cody for, I don't think that prostitution or sex work should be illegal. It's one of the oldest professions. It's not the oldest. It should be protected and it should be safe.

• 1:08:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:54Laci Mosley?

  Because it's gonna happen regardless.

• 1:08:55Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 1:08:56Laci Mosley?

  I say it all the time. If man had coochie, it'd be on the stock market.

• 1:08:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:59Laci Mosley?

  So like, that to me is not the issue. The issue is that you didn't pay this man for their services.

• 1:09:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:09:05Laci Mosley?

  And then you tried to incarcerate this person on top of that. You suck.

• 1:09:09Speaker 04

  Insane. Um, however, how, not just you suck, you're so fucking stupid. Like you've drawn attention to this. How dumb are you? Also, all these fucking idiots in politics, I'm like, if you are a closeted homosexual, why are you in politics? That's like me trying to pretend I'm straight with the job that I fucking do. People would find out in a heartbeat, you idiot, there are more eyes on you. Why would you do that? That's so dumb. Dumb fox, man.

• 1:09:38Laci Mosley?

  So I think many, many, many people who are on my side of the camera in Hollywood, whether you know it or not, and I know some for sure, again, not outing. Are on the spectrum of some kind of homosexuality, whether it be bi, pan, you know, gay, straight, or I mean, gay, you know, lesbian, even asexual, they're on there, right? And they love entertainment because maybe we like, that's a stereotype that I'm not going to refute is that, give me a moment, I will perform. Now, a lot of people in our industry tend to be more conventionally attractive. I call DC politics Hollywood for ugly people. Like, you still want to be a pageant girl.

• 1:10:16Laci Mosley?

  You want cameras, you want the paparazzi following you up the Capitol steps. You want to get on the floor and give your sassy speech. And so how can you do that but still be closeted?

• 1:10:28Laci Mosley?

  And they don't care about how you look, they care about how much power you amassed.

• 1:10:32Speaker 04

  Do you know what? That's a really fair read. Okay, I'll take that.

• 1:10:34Laci Mosley?

  Right? So I'm like, I'm like, he was like, how can I be one of the girls, but the girls don't know, but they, but they, but some of the girls know.

• 1:10:45Laci Mosley?

  Honestly, I don't think our community has to be that welcoming either because I don't, for one, think that dick should be living in his truth in our community. You can live in the truth and maybe find you some bigoted homosexuals to hang out with, but I don't want to see you at Pride. You have a nasty spirit. You calling the police all sex workers.

• 1:11:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, you've got nothing to be proud of.

• 1:11:06Laci Mosley?

  No, you, you find you some evil homosexuals. They're right there on the, on the Senate floor.

• 1:11:11Speaker 04

  You'll hate each other, you'll hate yourselves, it's fine.

• 1:11:13Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, hang out with Lindsey Graham, we know what's up. You got it. And the last one we have here with a beautiful last name to match. We've had some good ones. Pratt, now we know that's a piece of shit that works. We've got Ted Haggard. Haggard is a great last name.

• 1:11:28Speaker 04

  Oh, please tell me we've got a picture. Is he Haggard?

• 1:11:30Laci Mosley?

  I really, yes. Can we get Ted Hag- oh!

• 1:11:32Speaker 04

  Oh, ding ding ding!

• 1:11:34Laci Mosley?

  Very Haggard!

• 1:11:35Speaker 04

  Good for him.

• 1:11:36Laci Mosley?

  Oh, why is his hairline running towards me but leaving the sides behind?

• 1:11:40Speaker 04

  He looks like a calf. He's got the mouth of a calf.

• 1:11:45Laci Mosley?

  That's, yeah. Also, somebody with this kind of bone structure really should never make, like, get this close to a camera.

• 1:11:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:52Laci Mosley?

  Because this feels like a threat. Sir, I'm calling the police.

• 1:11:55Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah, wow. Is he a, is he a preacher man? He looks like a-

• 1:12:00Laci Mosley?

  You know, you know he is. Look at that suit. Evangelical leader.

• 1:12:04Speaker 04

  Really? I was about to say evangelical leader, but I didn't want to call out religion.

• 1:12:07Laci Mosley?

  No, that's the evangelical suit.

• 1:12:09Speaker 04

  I knew it. Fuck me, that was, wow, I can't believe how good I am at this game. Wow.

• 1:12:13Laci Mosley?

  You really are. Name that scammer and where do they work?

• 1:12:17Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:12:18Laci Mosley?

  Ten out of ten. Ted Haggard was the leader of a fourteen thousand member new life mega church in Colorado Springs and was campaigning against legalizing same-sex marriage when his gay sex scandal broke in two thousand and six. I personally do, I'm not, once a church gets to the word mega, like when mega is in front of a church, that to me is no longer a community center.

• 1:12:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:12:44Laci Mosley?

  If I can't leave service and shake my pastor's hand,

• 1:12:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:12:49Laci Mosley?

  this is too large of a church.

• 1:12:52Speaker 04

  It's literally just a corporation.

• 1:12:54Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. I understand opening many satellite churches and maybe bringing up other people, and a lot of churches do that. That way the church is dead in that person's community. But once we get to mega and they pass in the credit card swiper, fur ties and offering, we've gone a step too far.

• 1:13:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, agreed, agreed. No, it's literally, you're just going to work on a Sunday. Like, this is my job. I'm going to work. I pay these people. This is a job I pay for.

• 1:13:17Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, and, and for me, I'm like, how much community outreach are you doing? Where is the benevolence offering going?

• 1:13:23Speaker 04

  Oh, wait, sorry, sorry, that's, I can answer that. Zero. Zilch. Couldn't give a fuck.

• 1:13:28Laci Mosley?

  And we never ask for statements. I think that's something that churches should start to do. There should be like an auditing, you know,

• 1:13:35Speaker 04

  Why would you ask them?

• 1:13:36Laci Mosley?

  where the community can come and see where the money that they've given has gone.

• 1:13:40Speaker 04

  Disagree. If you've chosen to join that corporation, that money's gone. More fool you, more fool. If you've decided to join that mega church and listen to that person who's sprouting, uh, spouting hate on that pulpit, more fool you, you don't get a right to look at that statement. He can buy all those Bentleys he wants because you've given him your money.

• 1:13:59Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. If it's bigot church, if it's a church where they're trying to claim that they're doing good, but if you go into bigot church, babes, you're in the scam. You're in the scam. I don't care if they tell you, take your money and use it for anything.

• 1:14:11Speaker 04

  Exactly. They're telling you that they want us to not get married and they want us to burn at the stake. Get the fuck out of here. Give them your money and just do what they can do, what they want with it. It's not your right to ask what. And if you get upset that they're using their money, your money for their Bentley, uh huh, you gave them your money. They were spouting hate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You wanted them to talk hate on that pulpit, not take care of people, not be kind to people, not do what Jesus did. So, yeah, you're right. Absolutely. You don't need, you don't need a statement. Get the fuck out of here.

• 1:14:39Laci Mosley?

  And I hope if it ever comes time for you to need the church's help, I hope you see who they really are. There was a girl on TikTok who did like a viral TikTok where she called a lot of churches asking for formula. And all the Christian churches were like, I don't know what to do, girl. I don't know how to help you, girl. Da, da, da, da. She called some strip clubs and the strippers showed out and showed up.

• 1:14:57Speaker 04

  I know someone in my life right now who reached out to a church. I'm in Utah. We've got a lot of Mormon churches here and the Mormon churches are usually wonderful. But she reached out, she gives 10% tithing, every paycheck, 10% goes out of her account. And she needed help, didn't help her. No one helped her. And so, there you are, young lady. There you are.

• 1:15:16Laci Mosley?

  At that point, you gotta bring the, the 10% that's coming out of your check receipts to the service and act a fool. I would go to FedEx Kinko, I would print that shit out big as hell. I would go right up in the tabernacle. And I was like, is this God's will? Cause um, I thought we were supposed to be helping and I've done my part and nobody has done theirs. I bring a camera, I bring YouTubers and a ring light. We going viral. Because the hypocrisy is wild.

• 1:15:41Speaker 04

  Wild.

• 1:15:41Laci Mosley?

  That money is supposed to go to the community. I mean, we talked about this on this podcast earlier, or you know, years ago, but Joel Osteen, when there was this huge like hurricanes in Houston, closed the doors to the church when people were displaced from their homes and everything was flooding. That is what the church is for. That's why you don't pay taxes.

• 1:15:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:15:56Laci Mosley?

  Who's supposed to be helping?

• 1:15:57Speaker 04

  Absolutely, absolutely.

• 1:15:59Laci Mosley?

  But instead, y'all want to be out here hurting people, too busy hurting people. So Ted was forced to resign after his sex scandal as the president of the politically powerful National Association of Evangelicals after admitting that he had bought meth from and had a sexual encounter with a gay sex worker.

• 1:16:19Speaker 04

  Whoa.

• 1:16:20Laci Mosley?

  So meth is, that's a little cherry on top. It's like, not only were you-

• 1:16:24Speaker 04

  I was enjoying his life.

• 1:16:26Laci Mosley?

  You were enjoying your life. He was having a good little circuit, okay? Okay, sir, we jumped with the meth.

• 1:16:32Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:16:33Laci Mosley?

  But um, he's been married to his wife Gail since nineteen seventy-eight.

• 1:16:38Speaker 04

  Oh, Gail.

• 1:16:38Laci Mosley?

  And they have five children.

• 1:16:40Speaker 04

  Poor kids.

• 1:16:41Laci Mosley?

  In twenty twenty-two, he was accused of the same things. Yes, again, using meth and having same-sex relationships at his new church, Saint James Church in Colorado Springs. So he didn't learn his lesson. He moved churches. He said, I'm not gay no more. Y'all don't go over to Colorado Springs and ask them nothing about me.

• 1:16:59Laci Mosley?

  Okay?

• 1:16:59Speaker 04

  I'm a gay over here. I was only gay over there.

• 1:17:02Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:03Speaker 04

  I've gone to conversion therapy. It really works.

• 1:17:06Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. Honestly, moving out of the city made me not gay no more. The city was making me gay.

• 1:17:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:17:11Laci Mosley?

  And so then when I left, I was like, woo, delivered.

• 1:17:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, really has that effect on people, yeah.

• 1:17:15Laci Mosley?

  And he got caught again in twenty twenty-two. So imagine-

• 1:17:18Speaker 04

  Shocker.

• 1:17:18Laci Mosley?

  This is what I always think too, if people get a DUI. It's rare that someone gets a DUI and it's their first time driving intoxicated, right?

• 1:17:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:17:28Laci Mosley?

  Like, everyone's gonna say that because they don't want to say like, man, I've been driving great. Let it go. I've been driving great all great.

• 1:17:35Speaker 04

  You're usually so good at this.

• 1:17:36Laci Mosley?

  Right. I'm a great drug driver. No one's gonna say that. They're gonna say this is my first time. I only had a couple drinks, but I was on an empty stomach, um, sleep, you know, like, they're gonna say this. It's just a natural human condition. And getting a DUI is so embarrassing. And sad and dangerous and hopefully if you have one out there like you understood there was a mistake and no one got hurt and you move on with your life. Things happen. We all make mistakes. Don't do it again. And if you have been driving and you know you was lit when you got home, if you come into your parking garage and or on the street and your car parked a little crazy in the morning, let that be your lesson before you harm yourself or somebody else on the road. That's your DUI. I know, I know you didn't park your car and the wheels wasn't looking quite sober.

• 1:18:18Laci Mosley?

  But the same thing for me goes with this situation of him getting caught again, you know, using meth and and having um you know, sex with a a male sex worker is I bet you the two times you got caught were not the two times you did it.

• 1:18:31Speaker 04

  One hundred percent. Are you kidding me? This is one in a hundred. He just got caught.

• 1:18:37Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, I feel like the girls know you on back page. I feel like the girls know you on all that, on the the grinders. And so the scam today and to end our pride month on a a highlight note is that one, truth always comes to light uh eventually and two, like these type of bigots still exist today and they're still down low still. I mean, we're still see, I mean, Kristi Noem's husband has a whole, you know, he likes to cosplay with titties and shit like that and a sex worker out at him. Um, I I don't think normal people, if you have a fetish, I don't think there's anything against that. It's that the people who come out and openly preach against the things.

• 1:19:18Speaker 04

  I was gonna say that the people who fight against their own community, yeah, they are doing those things. They are the issue. That's my biggest gripe. I'm like, don't hate on your own fucking community. Don't make it worse for your own people just because it's bad for you.

• 1:19:30Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, and I mean, the term closet itself means that you are in an enclosed space with the door closed alone. If you're gonna be closeted, please be in an enclosed space with the door closed alone. How you gonna be outside bothering people?

• 1:19:46Speaker 04

  For their freedom. Just because you're jealous of their freedom. Yeah.

• 1:19:49Laci Mosley?

  Exactly, because you're so mad that you can't live in your truth, but you still want to hang around the girls.

• 1:19:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:19:54Laci Mosley?

  But you want to pretend you hate us.

• 1:19:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, 100%.

• 1:19:57Laci Mosley?

  Yes. Oh, my gosh, Tan, you have had so many amazing opinions, thoughts, stories. This was such a blast chatting with you today.

• 1:20:05Speaker 04

  I've loved this, lady. Thanks so much. I could gossip all day.

• 1:20:08Laci Mosley?

  I know. I just want to chat with you, see. We always ask at the end of the show, where would you like to be found? Anything you want to promote, socials, it could be whatever, because the congregation is going to want to find you, Tan. They're nice.

• 1:20:21Speaker 04

  The only thing I want you to check out is Honorable Gays. It's basically me doing this, but about, well, I was about to say about other people's lives. This was about other people's lives. I just give my very unfiltered opinion on everyone else's lives. It's on Honorable Gays on YouTube. You'll love it. Love it.

• 1:20:35Laci Mosley?

  Yes. I mean, listen, you got, you got a little sample, a little taste right now, Tan. Okay, I know that fully unhinged Tan, I cannot even wait to tap in myself. So, thank you for giving us some honorable gay at the end of Pride. We love it, yes. Tap into Honorable Gays. Y'all, Scam Goddess, the television show, is on Hulu right now. You can watch all the episodes. There might be some, I might be cooking something up, y'all. So, you might want to watch all them episodes. Also, you can get my book, Scam Goddess, anywhere books are sold, or the audiobook, anywhere you want to put it in your ears. And it is me narrating that book, y'all. So, get into my lore and see revolving scams. Um, and leave us a review on Apple Reviews if you love us. Do something nice for some queer people at the end of Pride Month, or answer some people of color. You can hit two, two minorities.

• 1:21:19Laci Mosley?

  Three, I'm a woman. You get three, three for one on Apple Podcasts. Go ahead and leave us five stars and a review. We appreciate it. And congregation, I want you to get out there.

• 1:21:35Laci Mosley?

  And stay out of the closet.

• 1:21:39Speaker 04

  Out of the closet.

• 1:21:40Laci Mosley?

  Pray the gay to stay.

• 1:21:46Laci Mosley?

  Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Our producer is Jessica Sisneros, and our audio engineer is Rich Garcia. Research for the show is conducted by Kate Doyle. Stay scheming.

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