#269 - Surge in Alien Abduction Activity Puts Military on High Alert | Randall Nickerson

Watch this episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Randall Nickerson is a filmmaker who spent fifteen years documenting the Ariel School alien encounter in Ruwa, Zimbabwe. Randall was also the subject of Dr. John Mack's book "Abductions", and appeared on the Oprah show in 1994 to discuss his encounters with extraterrestrials. SPONSORS https://hellofresh.com/freedanny - Get 10 FREE meals with code FREEDANNY. https://shopmando.com - Use code DANNY for $5 off your starter pack. https://publicrec.com/dannyjones - Get 20% off w/ code DANNYJONES. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off. EPISODE LINKS https://arielphenomenon.com FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Alien reproduction experiments 08:20 - UFO Senate hearings 18:34 - Threatened by military contractors 38:20 - Hard evidence of aliens 45:25 - Aliens are future humans theory 55:26 - Human + alien alliance 01:06:53 - Biblical beings 01:10:53 - Intelligence community confirms aliens 01:25:42 - Military general sees UFOs 01:29:23 - Randall's 2019 UFO sighting 01:44:18 - Randall's photographic evidence 01:46:17 - Appearing on Oprah w/ John Mack 01:55:00 - Different types of extraterrestrial beings 02:02:09 - Are alien abductions still happening? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:07Danny Jones?

  Welcome back, man.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Hey. It's been a year.

• 0:11Danny Jones?

  Been a little over a year.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 0:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the last time you came on here, we talked about your documentary on Ruwa.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:19Danny Jones?

  And shockingly enough, today is the 20 year anniversary of the Ruwa Zimbabwe.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  Yep, the 30th, actually.

• 0:27Danny Jones?

  Oh, it's the 30th anniversary.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  30th anniversary, and it was yesterday, September 16th.

• 0:31Danny Jones?

  September, oh, it was yesterday, September 16th. Wow.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:34Danny Jones?

  1994.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  1994.

• 0:38Danny Jones?

  That's wild, man.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think about those kids a lot.

• 0:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  What they've gone through, what they're going through.

• 0:47Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm. I've been talking to a lot of people over the last year about this topic. And, um, you know, it's, uh, there's something strange. I've been, I feel like I've made some sort of a connection over the last few months after talking with Whitley and talking with Michael Masters, that if this whole phenomenon, this abduction phenomenon is actually real and it's not just inside people's heads, that it was some sort of reproductive experimenting that was going on, right? Because it, every single case has something to do with reproduction.

• 1:32Danny Jones?

  And like I told you on the phone earlier, it feels like, and like I talked with Whitley, it seems like it has stopped since the early 2000s because you don't hear about these cases anymore. You don't hear all the big abduction cases that happened in the 90s and the 80s and the 70s. So I think Betty and Barney Hill were in the 60s, but not anymore. It's not a topic. It's not, it's not a new topic anymore. It doesn't seem like.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  I think it's been, um...

• 2:02Speaker 01

  As far as I'm aware, it's still happening.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  Just from people I know that are working on it, investigating it, even conversations with people recently. Cause I've been getting a lot of people contacting me from the film.

• 2:18Danny Jones?

  From what film, from the Ruwa film?

• 2:20Speaker 01

  From the aerial phenomenon, yeah.

• 2:21Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  So yeah, I, I, I think it's just not being

• 2:28Speaker 01

  covered in a serious way. I don't know why people are saying that. That's what puzzles me, like.

• 2:35Danny Jones?

  Well, I don't see it anywhere.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Well, it's not, you're not seeing it in, in, in the public.

• 2:40Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  But I, I've been hearing about it for, nothing has changed as far as I'm concerned.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  It's just not being, it, it is being studied through MUFON and different organizations and different private, you know, investigative investigators.

• 2:59Danny Jones?

  Why don't you think it's being, the people that are still having these experiences are not currently like talking about it publicly?

• 3:08Speaker 01

  I, I don't think people realize like how disturbing these events are, to be honest with you. You know, there's a lot of people out there.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  I mean, just, if you can imagine it,

• 3:25Speaker 01

  which I, I don't think you can actually imagine it.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  Anything close to what the reality is like.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  Boy, it makes life difficult for people and I have to give so many people a lot of credit.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Who've spoken out in the past, who are continuing to speak out.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Sharing their stories and

• 3:51Speaker 01

  I just don't think people realize how impactful something like that is. You can see it in the wild. I always compare it to the wildlife and wild animals and nature because we can see how another creature that runs into me in the woods, which has happened many times and how they react to me. You know, particularly when you're out in far out places in Alaska where they don't see a lot of human beings or even in Africa where human beings are kind of rare, you know, not, not everywhere, but in certain locations.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  And they have a very strong reaction of fear. Fight, flight, or freeze, you know, one of those things. And I've experienced it a lot. So I think human beings actually go through a very similar process with these creatures.

• 4:44Danny Jones?

  Saying like, maybe there's some sort of internal processing that has to happen before somebody can actually talk about this, especially publicly.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it is very, very hard to go public. I know quite a few people that have. And the consequences, you pay for that, you know. Unfortunately, in the past, there was a lot of ridicule. Being diagnosed as crazy or schizophrenic or bipolar, you know, the list goes on. It's been going on since the seventies, really, is when they started to try to medically diagnose these people. So the hard, the crazy part, these are witnesses to something.

• 5:27Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  You know? And how it's been, how they've been handled and treated is completely wrong. It's really. It's really.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  I don't know what to say about that.

• 5:41Danny Jones?

  Well. So for people that aren't aware, the last time you were in the studio was, I think it was spring of 2023, you came in. If I'm not mistaken, I think it was April or May, maybe.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Before the hearings.

• 5:57Danny Jones?

  April, May, yeah. When were the hearings?

• 5:59Speaker 01

  July 26.

• 6:00Danny Jones?

  There were, yeah, it was definitely before the hearings last year.

• 6:04Danny Jones?

  You came in here and we discussed your documentary, Aerial Phenomenon, about the 1994 Rue of Zimbabwe encounters with the kids in the school there. And then we stopped recording. And then you let me know about all these experiences you have had throughout your life and you.

• 6:28Danny Jones?

  Unbeknownst to me, which is my fault, being a terrible researcher and being terrible at prepping. You were literally on an Oprah episode that has millions of views online about your experiences. And you, John Mack, dedicated a whole section of his abduction book to you, which I read immediately after that podcast. And I called you up and I was like, Randall, you have to, we have to re-record this podcast. Like, this is unbelievable that we didn't talk about this. And you didn't want to do it. So we did it, but you're back.

• 7:07Danny Jones?

  And I know there are certain things that you are uncomfortable with discussing as far as like intimate details of your experiences. But can you lay out for people basically like how this whole thing started for you?

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Uh, wow, man, I really didn't want to talk about it, you know? Like, because it's not about me.

• 7:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  You know?

• 7:33Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  It's about all of us in a sense. So I've been trying to

• 7:42Speaker 01

  help bring this to people's awareness. I did it for, for my entire life.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  And still am, and I'm trying to.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not been easy, that's for sure.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  And I didn't really want to talk about it. I think a lot has happened since our last interview. You know, we had the hearings and then things got really crazy after that.

• 8:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah, and what?

• 8:20Danny Jones?

  During those hearings, what was the biggest takeaway from those hearings? I feel like so much has happened between now and then. I don't even remember like it's just like this world is so chaotic. Like they're trying to kill the president and then we forget about that because the Olympics are going crazy and they're having people reenact biblical scenes with Apollo and it's just, it's such a circus we're living in right now. It's such a weird reality. So, um, yeah. Do you remember what the takeaway from those hearings was?

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I got there. I drove, I just gotta tell you, I got there.

• 8:52Danny Jones?

  Oh, you were there?

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. I sure as hell was gonna be there.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  I sure as hell was gonna be there. So when I heard about it, a good friend of mine told me it was happening and I drove, I think from Tennessee where I was screening the film

• 9:08Speaker 01

  all night or whatever. I forget. And I got there and I got in line the night before. I was first in line. Damn straight. I was gonna be first in line. So, um, cause you, you know, when you, when I, when you actually see these things, when you actually experience them and have to go through that process of dealing with it yourself and, and even, and getting beyond the disbelief that is in yourself that these things are real. I mean, that's part of it too. A lot of people, it's so mind blowing. And people don't understand like how impactful those experiences are. So when I got to the hearings, I was sitting next to, um,

• 9:48Speaker 01

  Tim Gallaudet, Gallaudet, is that his name? The Navy Admiral, Rear Admiral?

• 9:52Danny Jones?

  No, I'm not sure.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  He's been, been speaking, uh, quite a bit and

• 9:56Danny Jones?

  Tim Gallaudet, something like that?

• 9:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I gotta say, those people, uh, who are coming out from the military side are, um,

• 10:07Speaker 01

  you know, they just deserve a lot of credit.

• 10:09Danny Jones?

  This fellow?

• 10:09Speaker 01

  For what the, yes.

• 10:11Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  Yep. And, um, so I think what came out at those hearings, you had Ryan Graves, David Grush, David Fravor.

• 10:19Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay. Yeah.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  So you got two Top Gun guys. Yeah. One's an instructor at Top Gun. I mean, come on.

• 10:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Grush is, you know, top of the intelligence chain.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  And they're being honest about what they've seen. And, uh,

• 10:38Speaker 01

  A lot, a lot of the, the things that moved me as I was there were, were the, were the things that David Grush had found out because that all rang true to me because I knew before that what he was saying, all those things were true. So, I mean, I cannot tell you the bravery, I have such respect for those people, you know, David, all of them, Lou Elizondo, David Grush, Brian Graves, Ryan Graves and Dave Fravor, and that's just a few because since that time, so many more people have, have come forward and I just hats off to them. I really personally appreciate it and I know there's a lot of people out there who've

• 11:23Speaker 01

  seen these things that feel the same way, like, thank you so much, finally, after all this time, and all this effort people have put in to try to, to bring it to the public because that's kind of what it's about. It's not about yourself, it's not about your own ego BS, it is about all of us, our entire species. Yeah, so the takeaway from that was, oh my God, we're in a different day. I mean, since that time, we've had a lot more, just incredibly brave people coming forward to, to share what they know.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  And I know it's not an easy, none of this is easy, none of it. It's not going to be easy for a while to confront this.

• 12:19Danny Jones?

  For who?

• 12:20Speaker 01

  I think for everybody, to be honest. It's definitely not easy right now for a lot of people that have had encounters because a lot of people who've had encounters with these things want to block, they block it out because it's so disturbing, it changes your worldview, it's ontological shock, which people are using that quite a bit now, and it's true, John Mack used it back in the 90s.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  I think he actually had a good grasp on what it would do to humans, you know, the human.

• 12:52Danny Jones?

  I think there's a big difference between somebody who's experienced these abductions versus these aerial crafts that Navy pilots are seeing. Because we're so disconnected, that's what the whole, the whole hearing, if I'm not mistaken, is about crafts that Navy pilots are seeing that we don't know what they are. Are they violating airspace? Are they putting Navy pilots in danger? And then Grush basically came out with like, I heard through the grapevine, through somebody else, that we do have biological entities or pilots of these crafts. But there was like no, zero corroboration. And not only that, it was like, we don't even know the names of the people who told you this, who told them that.

• 13:37Danny Jones?

  Like, it's so disconnected.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  But it's not. I mean, that's what, that was the public, you know, the majority report, when they spoke to him privately, and there were meetings going on that whole time before and after the hearing. So, and then I think there was a skiff, that couple of skiffs that have happened since that time. There's one coming up again. So, yeah, I mean, you just can't share a lot of your sources and.

• 14:02Danny Jones?

  Like, to me, it just felt like that was just a big dog and pony show for the public. It didn't feel real. Like, it felt like it was part of some sort of controlled, slow drip disclosure for humanity. It looked like it was a, it looked like a, like a, like a, like theater to me.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Maybe. I mean, maybe. I don't think so, but, but, I mean, you got to understand that it is such a big deal that they're going to try to control the narrative in any way they can. Because it's such a big deal that it's. Will affect our civilization in ways that we don't even, we're not even aware of.

• 14:42Danny Jones?

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• 16:34Speaker 01

  And they're trying to get a handle on all that stuff. They have been for a long time. You just can't just tell people.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  It's it's groundbreaking. It may take a long time, actually, for this to. It's not fiction. That I can tell you.

• 16:51Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  It's not fiction.

• 16:54Danny Jones?

  There's something definitely unsettling about, like, we talked about this on the phone earlier. Out of all the outlandish podcast episodes I've recorded on this show, there have been two or three now, two in recent memory, that have been fully blocked from YouTube's search, where, meaning that nobody can find them by searching for anything on YouTube, like even typing in the name of the guest combined with the name of my podcast. And those two episodes have been, A, one with a guy named Chris Bledsoe, who talked about being abducted and talking about aliens and personal encounters with these entities. And B was recently with Whitley Strieber.

• 17:38Danny Jones?

  You could type in the names of those podcasts, the names of those people, followed by like the word interviewer podcast, or even my name, and you literally get a list of videos about them from the History Channel that have less views than my video that was uploaded like two days beforehand. So if, like, those videos clearly don't violate any policies, any YouTube policies, right, which, so they can't strike them down or remove them.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 18:03Danny Jones?

  But there's a, there's some sort of bizarre thing going on where they're unable to be searched for. So if there is some sort of, whoever is behind the scenes operating

• 18:18Danny Jones?

  at these, this social media company,

• 18:23Danny Jones?

  they're making videos about alien abductions unsearchable, and they're hiding it or, or turning the volume down on them so that people can't find them. It's super bizarre to me. Out of all the content that I've done, I've done some, had some questionable people in here before, and, like, I don't see why they would choose this topic to,

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 18:49Danny Jones?

  to silence.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  Yep. Well, that's kind of why I.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Part of it, um, I think that that conversation is not, we're not there yet to really actually have that, the conversation about.

• 19:04Danny Jones?

  With the public, you mean?

• 19:05Speaker 01

  With the public for, with, about personal contact. I think that's.

• 19:09Danny Jones?

  Why not?

• 19:11Speaker 01

  Hmm, I think, you know, people, if you look at the way it's gone, we're, we're starting from the outside, you know, about these objects even being real, we're still in that argument, you know? The public is, um, hearing about it, but we're not to what they're doing here, who they've interacted with, why, you know, there's so many things that, I mean, I feel, that's why I just don't want to say too much about anything I've run into because it's two years away, it's two years away. I've been actually told that, like, you need to be quiet for about two years. And I, I kind of think, like, what's, okay.

• 19:46Danny Jones?

  Who's telling you need to be quiet for two years?

• 19:48Speaker 01

  Oh, man. Since the hearings, um, I mean, this is just incredibly, I can't even believe I'm saying this, but since the hearings, which is July 26th, um, I had a man come to my house, military man, I knew he'd seen combat, I could see it in his eyes, and, uh, he threatened me for 20 minutes in my own yard. Not kidding. Basically telling me to keep my mouth shut.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  Four months later, I got a physical assault, not by the same man, but same type of man. And then four months after that, that was April, um, I got another physical assault, I got punched in the chest and the man, they knew where I was, man. It was, it was, it was so bizarre. And he punches me in the chest. He knew where the cameras were on the street and then puts his arm around me real quick. I mean, I didn't know, I didn't know this person. He just approached me on the sidewalk and he was the only one there and he.

• 20:52Danny Jones?

  He was running your house?

• 20:53Speaker 01

  No, this was at a restaurant that I tend to go to, you know, once, once every week or two weeks, I'll go to a restaurant and, uh, and he put his arm around and said, let's go for a drink. And I'm like, I don't know who the fuck you, pardon my English, but, you know, uh, that was extreme. And it actually turned out that man was the same man who was caught on my cameras behind my house, like, three years before that.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  So I don't know. And then there's been three incidents since. So I mean, I can't believe I'm saying this. I can't believe it's happening. I mean, I've traveled around the world. Um, I've gotten followed by the Zimbabwean CIO, which is our CIA. I've been confronted.

• 21:39Danny Jones?

  Zimbabwe's intelligence agencies?

• 21:41Speaker 01

  Called the CIO. Yeah.

• 21:42Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Yep. I've had intelligence officers follow me in South Africa, Canada.

• 21:49Danny Jones?

  How do you know they were intelligence officers following you?

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Uh, well, it's, uh, in Zimbabwe, it's very clear.

• 21:57Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  They, they let you know who they are.

• 22:00Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  Um, I made it.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  I mean, it's when you first experience it, uh, it's, uh, it's shocking. I mean, you were terrified. You realized that this person is very powerful, who they represent. And I was with somebody who knew what was happening at the time too, because I, I probably wouldn't have noticed it. She did. She can tell you the story too. Um, so oddly, you get kind of educated about who these people are and how they operate. I just never thought I'd see it in my own country like this. For what? You know?

• 22:36Danny Jones?

  Did these guys who approached you? You, you said one guy approached you in front of a restaurant. Another guy came to your house and approached you in your front yard?

• 22:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, the first time was, was, uh, at my house.

• 22:47Danny Jones?

  And when, when was this approximately?

• 22:49Speaker 01

  August 16th, 2023.

• 22:52Danny Jones?

  August 16th, 2023.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 22:54Danny Jones?

  Right after the hearings.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  Five, it was five o'clock, five thirty.

• 22:57Danny Jones?

  What? Did the guy identify himself at all? Did he say where he was from? Did he say?

• 23:00Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I asked him all those questions. Well, I, first of all, I thought he was somebody who had had an encounter himself coming to my house to, that's what I thought, because he was really, um,

• 23:13Speaker 01

  he kept talking about the subject matter in a very, very smart, legal way. Like he was, it was so brilliantly done. I can't even tell you.

• 23:22Danny Jones?

  Did it introduce himself or anything?

• 23:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, and he, he, he literally made up the name as he went.

• 23:27Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  And then he told me, I asked him where he worked. He said he'd been in my house before, in my garage, and I knew he hadn't because he could, he would have seen one of my vehicles if he, if, first of all, nobody comes in my garage unless I know them. And what, how he described one of the vehicles in, in the car was if you saw it from the air.

• 23:50Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Cause if he had been in that garage, he would have known that wasn't an original type of vehicle that it was.

• 23:57Danny Jones?

  Wow, okay.

• 23:58Speaker 01

  It's uh, it looks like a Shelby Cobra, but it's not.

• 24:01Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  It's a hand-built nineteen fifty-nine MGA with a racing, you know Corvette drivetrain in it and.

• 24:08Danny Jones?

  So like he pulled it out in the driveway and he saw it on like a reconnaissance satellite or something?

• 24:14Speaker 01

  I mean, it really, I knew, anyway, it was just, yeah. That, that, and then where he told me where I worked and I drove immediately after he left to see if he worked there. And he, you know, it was a fire department he said he was with. That was one of the things he said to me very clearly, like, I said, what do you do? He's like, I put out fires and I have a lot of friends that are firemen, police officers, military guys, friends of mine I grew up with. And he said, yeah, I put out fires. Sometimes people make it, sometimes they don't. Very clearly, this is one of many threats that went on for twenty minutes.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  And what I think the reason he stayed so long was um, because he probably thought, oh, this guy's not really getting it. Which I wasn't, cause I was, okay, this is somebody, he's coming to me for some reason and, you know, first you have to see, is he drunk? Right? Is this somebody with mental issues, whatever, you go through a list and try to figure out what's going on and. It became very clear toward the end, and which is why he left, cause he, and he kept saying to me, I'll, I'll be back. I'm gonna be coming back often, very threatening, physically threatening, and this guy could have kicked my ass.

• 25:30Danny Jones?

  On your property?

• 25:32Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  And I made eye to eye, eye contact and when he would make the threats, he would be.

• 25:38Danny Jones?

  In Connecticut?

• 25:40Speaker 01

  In Massachusetts.

• 25:41Danny Jones?

  Did he appear to be armed?

• 25:43Speaker 01

  I, not, not, not a sidearm.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Here.

• 25:48Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  So that was another.

• 25:50Danny Jones?

  You could tell.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  I could tell and I, one of the things I did right away was put my arms and my hands so he could see them. Um.

• 25:58Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Because I understood the gravity of the situation. Like he had, this is somebody who's well trained. And when, I'll never forget looking in his eyes. I'm like, oh yeah, he's just like the guys I know that went to Iraq. Guys I, friends of mine that went to Iraq and Afghanistan or even Vietnam, he's no longer alive anymore, but man, they came back different and you can see it in their eyes.

• 26:20Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Some people call it the, the thousand yard stare. Um, it's basically you've seen things, other people just, you know, you've seen the extreme and it really affects you.

• 26:32Danny Jones?

  So was he direct in any of his communication with you as to what he wanted you to stop talking about?

• 26:41Danny Jones?

  Or was this all just like vague putting out fires?

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, no, there were some direct things. He knew all about the film. That was discussed, but he was, I could tell he was walking a legal line at the same time.

• 26:54Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Like he, it was really brilliant. I have to say, it was terrifying, you know, it, um. I mean.

• 27:06Danny Jones?

  So what specifically did he tell you to stop talking, to shut up about?

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Just basically, that's what's been said to me for a long time. Just keep your mouth shut.

• 27:15Danny Jones?

  That's it. Just keep your mouth shut.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. And so then you go into.

• 27:20Danny Jones?

  What, like you're just a guy who made a movie about something that happened in 1994 and.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 27:26Danny Jones?

  You were in John Mack's book, but what, what have you been talking about publicly that would piss them off? That's, I don't know who this is, first of all, but like.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:34Danny Jones?

  Let's use our imaginations here. What would you do to make that, to provoke them to show up to your house?

• 27:40Speaker 01

  So I had to think about that, right? I'm like, is this about the movie? You know, I had to really, really. Do a lot of deep thinking about, okay, what is this really about?

• 27:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  Um.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  I think it's some things, I've been very aggressive in a sense, not, not for any nefarious purpose, but aggressive in finding, I needed to know personally. What was going on, who knew about this?

• 28:14Speaker 01

  So I've been to a lot of places and I've spoken to a lot of people and I've seen a lot of stuff, seen a lot of things.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  So I think it's more about that than it is about the movie.

• 28:25Danny Jones?

  Privately seeing people?

• 28:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, for a long time now.

• 28:29Danny Jones?

  Like who?

• 28:30Speaker 01

  I can't talk about that, really. I'm not trying to be a, I just, it's only gonna get me in more trouble. But there's been, let's put it this way, there's been an awful lot of interest

• 28:45Speaker 01

  for quite a long time.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  With a whole bunch of us.

• 28:52Danny Jones?

  Whole bunch of us, meaning abductees?

• 28:54Speaker 01

  People have seen it, yeah, people have come close to it.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  That's no joke, let's not, you know, I don't-

• 29:02Danny Jones?

  You think it's a coincidence this happened after, right after the hearings?

• 29:05Speaker 01

  No, I think the hearings pushed it to a, a different level. I don't think they wanted me there, to be honest, I think they were very surprised I was there. But I've been that kind of person my whole life, like, you know, I'm not gonna keep my mouth shut about this. Not, you know, and it's not like I'm, I'm not against them, I understand, they're human beings just like I am. And we're, we're all, you know, we're all in the same position. And I understand their concern, I'm concerned also, all of us should be, right? In a, in a certain sense. But my beef is like, just come and talk to me. It's like, there's nothing I'm gonna do.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Like, I, we're on the same page, you just have to have more

• 29:52Speaker 01

  information and ability and technology to gather that information, to get a bigger picture of what's happening, but it's still the same thing. You know, these Top Gun guys are flying antiques compared to that stuff.

• 30:05Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Like, there is such a huge gap between where we are and where those things are. We all need to help, there's just no question. So they may look at me as somebody who has crossed some lines.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  Because I've kind of demanded to be in the conversation.

• 30:23Danny Jones?

  But not publicly, which is bizarre that they would go to this.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  Well, I have been public, though. Routinely.

• 30:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but not about anything other than like documenting something that like the Ruazemba way thing. What have you been public about other than aerial phenomena? Since then?

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Since the movie?

• 30:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Well, I've been on a few podcasts and probably said a few things. But I've been very careful. Like, I'm not interested in hurting national security. Unfortunately, national security is bonded to this subject matter really intimately in their eyes. And I understand why.

• 31:01Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  You know, they're worried about the Chinese.

• 31:02Danny Jones?

  Right, of course.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  You know, and the Russians, both.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  And wanting to maintain that advantage because everybody knows that this is the bar of, this is the shiny object, the bar of gold, the most valuable thing in the world to us. And whoever gets control of that.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  You know, is going to have a significant advantage.

• 31:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah, all the pub, you all right?

• 31:31Danny Jones?

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• 32:15Danny Jones?

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• 33:00Danny Jones?

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• 33:36Speaker 01

  I just want to have a normal life, you know? It's not been possible. It's just the truth.

• 33:43Danny Jones?

  So the guy who hit you in the chest at the restaurant, that was after the guy approached you in your lawn? Was it the same, was it the same guy or different guy?

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Different guy, but I had him on camera. Two years before that in my backyard. Same guy.

• 33:55Danny Jones?

  What was he doing in your backyard?

• 33:57Speaker 01

  They GPS themselves on their phone and I live in the middle of a fricking huge swamp. It's like 700 acres. Nobody goes out there. Hunters, I'll see hunters once in a while. You'll, you never see them caught out in the woods at night. You know, bears and everything else out there. And, you know, sometimes I'll get a guy that picks mushrooms. I'll see, you know, whatever. It's not, I'm not interested. I'm looking, interested in covering the wildlife out there. So I catch a lot of this stuff on camera and these guys came into my backyard, GPS themselves in. They got caught on two cameras on, just on the way in. It's so funny.

• 34:33Danny Jones?

  You got the place wired for surveillance.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Oh, have to, had to, just to be able to, you know, to have some semblance of, uh, safety. Unfortunately, but it's it's served a lot of purposes.

• 34:47Danny Jones?

  And so this, do you think this guy who appeared on your cameras in your backyard knew that he was on your cameras? Like he, that was the point of it?

• 34:55Speaker 01

  He, the camera goes off the other, there's two of them and the the shorter guy, he's like camera, he called, he yells out camera. And then the guy, the same guy that assaulted me, he said, that fucking asshole. That's what he said right on camera. So the camera is far enough away from me that how would he know whose it is?

• 35:19Danny Jones?

  Black helicopters flying above us.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:23Danny Jones?

  Cause it was on your house, right?

• 35:24Speaker 01

  No, this wasn't, this is, yeah, no, this was quite far out into the woods on the way to the house. So and then they spent five minutes photographing my property from, from the woods line, which is also on camera. That's caught on the, the home security.

• 35:38Danny Jones?

  You have this footage in your possession?

• 35:39Speaker 01

  My attorneys have it.

• 35:40Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Because unfortunately I've had to, to go to extreme degrees.

• 35:48Danny Jones?

  Have you ever talked to Danny Sheehan?

• 35:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know Danny.

• 35:52Danny Jones?

  He ever helped you with any of this stuff? He's a big shot attorney.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  I know.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  He's busy.

• 35:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  We've discussed, we discussed this a long time ago, actually. Because as soon as you go public about it, you start to get the, um, you start to get the,

• 36:11Speaker 01

  the intimidation, I would guess you would say. Somebody wants to keep this stuff quiet. There's no doubt about that. And I'm not the only person by any means. It's, it's been interesting to hear Lou,

• 36:26Speaker 01

  David Grush, all these other people out there saying, you know, telling people like, I'm not going to commit suicide, you know? Basically telling, telling people they've been threatened and,

• 36:40Speaker 01

  saying that, you know?

• 36:43Speaker 01

  If someone's gonna make my death look like an accident, I'm gonna come out first and say that. You know, I did that 20 years ago on paper.

• 36:51Danny Jones?

  You did what 20 years ago?

• 36:52Speaker 01

  Just that same thing where you say to people, you know, I my family, I wrote them a long letter like, you know, I'm not gonna commit suicide. I'm healthy, I'm I'm very careful in everything I do. Um, just because, you know, some there's some actions that have been taken, which David Gress brought up and others have as well. Um, that are real and unfortunately, uh, you even have to think about that. Cause I'm not, I'm not doing anything illegal. I'm not, um, I haven't violated any, you know, military borders or anything like that.

• 37:36Danny Jones?

  Sounds like you're having private conversations with people and that's what they're up in arms about.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so. I think they know that I know a fair amount of things I probably shouldn't know. And, uh, they don't want me talking about it. Pretty simple. Um, I just wish they would just tell me, like, have a conversation instead of, it's like bully tactics, you know, and, and boy, man, they know the human being well.

• 38:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  They know how to make a person scared in very particular ways. It's like, it's surgical. Like, if we do this, and it's, it's actually brilliant. If it wasn't happening to me, I'd be much more fascinated and, but they're, you know, it's incredibly.

• 38:19Danny Jones?

  Can you give, how much can you tell me about what this is that they don't want? They don't want you to talk about publicly and they want you to keep your mouth shut about it? Like, what is the nature of it?

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Um.

• 38:34Danny Jones?

  Is it about, is it about nuts and bolts crafts? Is it about beings? Is it about? What is it about?

• 38:42Speaker 01

  I think it's about all of it.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  I think it's about a lot of it. I mean, I'm not, I don't have anything in my possession or anything like that. It's just, I, I've seen quite a few things. Um.

• 38:57Danny Jones?

  Here's the hardest thing about it to me is nobody has any proof. Nobody has any hard evidence of any of it. And that's the, that's so wild to me. You know, it's this whole phenomenon just lives on the fringes of our perception.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  Well, it, it, I, yeah, but if you have anything of their, you know, that's exotic, you won't have it for long.

• 39:23Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  It's a

• 39:28Speaker 01

  It's a, it's a national security secret, really.

• 39:31Danny Jones?

  Like, not even just, not even like physical material, like, not even any, like, documented proof of anything. Of any beings, of any, like, all we have is these blurry fucking videos.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. There's more out there than people think. They're just not looking hard enough, in a sense, I think. I think a lot's been actually made public by a lot of brave people, even back in the 50s. And 60s. I mean, my God, when, when this really finally comes, there's gonna be award ceremonies, post, post, you know, posthumous uh, for so many people that took such brave risks to, um, to try to at least evolve us, not tell us everything, but at least to give us like some hints, like, yeah, this is, this is what you got coming.

• 40:22Danny Jones?

  And what's, why are those stories not talked about anymore? What, like, what are they? Like, what, can you give us an example of one?

• 40:32Speaker 01

  Well, you look at some of the documentaries in the 1950s that were done on this topic.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  Uh, some of the brave soldiers, majors, or, you know, from all different, uh, branches who came forward. Kehoe, um, I mean, you know,

• 40:53Speaker 01

  so many brave people that, um, that were trying to tell us. And nothing has changed. Like, today, we think, oh, UFOs is a new thing. Uh, well, why don't you watch some of those documentaries from the 50s?

• 41:05Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  It's all the same, it's the same thing. It's just people have decided time after time not to tell us. And

• 41:19Speaker 01

  I mean, you know, what do we do? I think, I think the exciting part, because you can get pretty hopeless about that. Like, oh, they're never gonna tell us.

• 41:29Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  But there's been just some real, and I think it has to do with, you know, where we're at, where things are at.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  The public distrust everywhere, because the

• 41:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  The powers that be.

• 41:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 41:45Speaker 01

  Go ahead.

• 41:45Danny Jones?

  I was gonna say, here's the, the problem with the whole thing, too. Look at the, the, the world right now and the way we view reality and the way we view truth, even just the news, right? It's like, the world we live in right now, it's like, nothing is real.

• 42:05Danny Jones?

  Everyone picks and chooses what they want to believe. It's like, almost like the foundational definition of truth is, has evaporated. We don't, it's so, it's so slippery right now, that I feel like, if the government was to come out tomorrow, and say, these UFOs are real, there are aliens flying them, and they're from another star system, and they're here to experiment with us, we made a deal with them to do whatever, this, that, and the third. How many people do you think would believe that's true? And how many people do you think would believe that the government made up that story?

• 42:40Speaker 01

  I think it would be very tenuous. You've heard of Project Blue Beam? Like, that very project to mimic this phenomenon for that same purpose.

• 42:50Danny Jones?

  I think a vast majority of people would believe that that was made up bullshit.

• 42:55Speaker 01

  Today, I, probably, I don't know, I haven't done the surveys, but

• 42:59Danny Jones?

  Like, people don't trust the government, that's what I'm trying to get at.

• 43:01Speaker 01

  That's the problem. That's the problem. And I think, if you really want to look down the road, I think the reason people don't trust the government on a big scale is because they have not told us the truth about something very elemental, that even a lot of the indigenous cultures have known for thousands of years, they haven't been honest about it. Like, you know, for, for a long time, I'm like, who, who's got a great handle on this? Who do I go to, after what I've seen myself? Who do I go to for advice? You know? It hasn't been here. I've gone to, to chiefs and medicine men and

• 43:44Speaker 01

  Other countries and and here in the United States. They know more about it than anybody else. From a from a an overall standpoint, you know, there are people in our country that have a great technical understanding of what we're dealing with, which is mind blowing. But.

• 44:04Danny Jones?

  What do you mean? People that have a great technical understanding?

• 44:07Speaker 01

  Because we I I really do believe we have their we have recovered their stuff.

• 44:12Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  Too many people I know that are close enough to know that. And that's had this is nothing to do with the UFO circle. I have my own circle of friends that are just people I grew up with and people I went to school with who are in the military. And they have really cool jobs or they're contractors. So anyway, it's it's the good part. It is becoming normal conversation now. It's never been like that for me. It's just normal conversation and.

• 44:43Danny Jones?

  Well, the UFO stuff is the abduction stuff is not really.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  Not not no, that's not. We're not there yet. That's just why I just I feel like I need a couple like not me, but actually I'd rather just.

• 44:56Danny Jones?

  The the nuts and bolts flying, you know, UFO military thing has become like a conversation you can have with your, you know, your relatives at dinner. But, you know, when aliens pulling you up into a spaceship and extracting semen is not is we're not quite there yet. Two years might be it might be more than two years, honestly.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  Or what they're like, you know, how they behave.

• 45:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  All the weirdness that is it is very strange. All of it's very strange.

• 45:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Well, like I was telling you on the phone earlier, too, like, I don't know if I've had enough time to process it yet or what it is, but Michael Masters's hypothesis of this extratemporal time traveler idea is just the most compelling thing that I've I've read on this subject because it there's so many pieces of the puzzle that fit, right? Like you have them caring about the planet, Ruwa Zimbabwe, communicating communicating to these kids that they need to protect the planet and watch out for technology like future humans are have a huge stake in this planet, way more so, I would imagine, than

• 46:08Danny Jones?

  some sort of extraterrestrial from another star system would. Um, number one, be number two, he's an anthropologist. He understands human evolution, understands how rare we are on earth. There's over 2 million catalog species of animals on this earth. 20 of them are hominids. One of the 20 is us making it like we're like point 00001% of all living species on earth that are upright walking hominids and we're the ones that were able to create technology that could leave the planet. Now, almost, I think all of the other Goldilocks planets that we're aware of that can inhabit life, they have different atmospheres, way different gravity, some are binary star systems, meaning

• 46:49Danny Jones?

  that the, um, the way life develops there is so much different than life develops here, meaning that it would be almost impossible, probably safe to say impossible for, um, life to develop to look like us, upright walking hominids with two arms, two legs, head, two forward facing eyes with the brain that sits directly on top of the head, especially when you account for the fact that most of those, um, those planets that exist, their Goldilocks planets are water worlds. So like, the fact that these things care about the planet, they look so similar to us. And he did, he took, um, he looked

• 47:29Danny Jones?

  at hominids from millions of years ago and basically extrapolated to where we are now, how we've evolved from early chimpanzees, and he extrapolated that out into the future and said, "We will, fully grown adults, way out in the future, will look like the offspring of our offspring right now." It's a, it's a, it's a term called pedomorphism, where, um, basically newborn, if you look at our ancestors, like if you look at early chimps, newborn chimps, they look like human children today. But when the chimps evolve, or when

• 48:09Danny Jones?

  they grow up and they become adults, their, their head goes back, slopes back, the mouth comes out, comes forward like that. And if you extrapolate, our future descendants, maybe thousands, hundreds of thousands of years from now, fully grown, will look like our children today. Mm-hmm. This is coming from a biological anthropologist. So it's super compelling to me, this idea.

• 48:38Danny Jones?

  Um, you don't seem convinced, though.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  Well, you know, bears spend an awful lot of time on two legs, way more than people think. Walking upright. I've seen it and I've.

• 48:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but not.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  Anyway, well, I it's just, it's just, I don't know. I, I, I don't try, I try not to. I think the most important thing, cause hey, these, this, this species could have evolved here. That's possible. Could be time travel. I'm, I'm not excluding anything. I just, I've heard so many ideas pitched and I think it's great. We need to do that. Absolutely. But the most important thing for me and a lot of other people is just, let's just, just, just admit that they're here first. It doesn't matter where they're from.

• 49:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  We'll figure that out and we need as many scientists like Michael. I think I've met him a few times. Michael Masters.

• 49:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  And I think it's great what he's, what he's doing and everyone is. I mean,

• 49:42Speaker 01

  geez, there's so many people that are just doing incredible work.

• 49:46Danny Jones?

  And, and, and there's also like so many of these abduction accounts talk about extracting eggs from women, sperm from men, even like the aliens having sex with the abductees. Like with Whitley Strieber's account or David Huggins. You're familiar with David Huggins, right? He's a guy, he's in Hoboken, New Jersey.

• 50:08Danny Jones?

  Wild shit like that. You would almost like, the first time I ever became aware of any of this was watching David Huggins documentary that Brad Abrams made. And I was just like, this guy's nuts.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:18Danny Jones?

  Right. That's your reaction to it.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  Of course it is.

• 50:20Danny Jones?

  I lost my virginity to an alien with huge tits. I need to do these paintings, these amazing paintings. I need to buy one of his paintings.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  I know, I understand.

• 50:29Danny Jones?

  But like they all have to do with reproduction, right? And if you look at the direction are the human race is going right now with sperm count, with testosterone levels, with the development of technology and our foods being more processed and pesticides, monocrop agriculture being like with, you know,

• 50:52Danny Jones?

  Monsanto and all these companies basically just like laying these fields with all these pesticides that are that are people are getting cancer from them. It's like dropping fertility rates, the plastics, the microplastics and everything, everything comes in plastic. And these microplastics are how Dr. Shawna Swan came in here and she described how since we've been testing testosterone levels and sperm count levels since the 50s. And since the 50s, they've been dropping one to 2% every year. And if you look at the drop in birth rates now, I mean, that's not just that, not just the biology of it, but it's also the culture of it. You know, now women are getting careers and they don't want to have children when they're young anymore.

• 51:34Danny Jones?

  We're becoming more and more homogenized and domesticated as a species. And if you take this and you extrapolate this into the future with more, the more technology evolves and just the way this world is going right now, there's no way to turn that ship around. So if this,

• 51:59Danny Jones?

  just like go with the theory that it is future humans for a second. Then you take in the account of any sort of natural cosmic cataclysm or nuclear exchange that could happen that would severely destroy a huge part of the human population. And people would be forced inbreeding would happen in that case and it would severely bottleneck our gene pool. So if hypothetically in the future this happened

• 52:31Danny Jones?

  and we were able to figure out backward time travel, wouldn't we want to send? Maybe not biological beings, but maybe we would want to send genetically created 3D printed robots back in time to harvest

• 52:49Danny Jones?

  specimens, semen from our ancestors to try to diversify the gene pool of the future if it is being bottlenecked by something like this. That hypothesis, I mean, I know it's a stretch, but the hypothesis makes.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  No, it makes complete sense. It's, um, no, it's, it's a great hypothesis. I, um,

• 53:11Speaker 01

  It's um, I mean, our planet's in trouble, period. We're hadn't, we're, we're, it doesn't matter. Like, if they were, I'll just make an argument. What, if they are traveling back to the future, they're a little late. They should have done that, I mean, from the future, they're a little late because we're, we're, we're in more and more serious trouble. Um, but you also have to understand another species, and this is also theoretical or speculative. Um, they may be looking at us like we do when we're, I spent a lot of time in Africa with primatologists and all these other wildlife people and organizations, and they, they, you know, they, they monitor the wildlife.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  They care about them. They, you know, care for them to a certain level. And then when they get out of hand, or their environment starts to suffer from too many elephants, so to speak, they mow, they mow forests down. You would not believe the destruction.

• 54:12Danny Jones?

  Elephants too?

• 54:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh. They destroy, they devastate an area. And then what they have to do is they'll shut that area off and move them into a whole nother area. We're talking sometimes millions of acres. They'll shut, shut off a quarter of it and let it regrow.

• 54:30Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Because the elephants have devastated. And then they call them to keep them, you know, their populations to a certain, you know, when a, when a species overpopulates, you start to get more disease. Um, so anyway, I just see it that, uh,

• 54:47Speaker 01

  I think we're just in a very critical place in our, our, our planet's. And I think maybe another species like we do values this place for maybe us, but it's not, probably not just us. There's millions and millions of other species. And maybe there's not a lot of that out there. Plus, we're a resource, you know, we have a lot of resources here. Chemical, genetic, you know, just a ton.

• 55:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 55:15Speaker 01

  So I'm, I don't know, I, I, again, I, I think that. That we have to just realize that it's happening at all before we can really start to get to.

• 55:26Danny Jones?

  And why do so many of the abduction accounts also describe human beings being in the craft with these little weird spindly alien beings?

• 55:36Speaker 01

  That's a good question. It's a really good question.

• 55:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I haven't had anything like that.

• 55:44Speaker 01

  But I've heard it. That raises a lot of questions. Why? Why would that be?

• 55:52Danny Jones?

  Have you ever heard any interesting ideas why from anybody you know?

• 55:56Speaker 01

  I think the, well, I've spoken to people about it.

• 55:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  They feel like there's been some kind of agreement, well, that was made a long time ago, between

• 56:07Speaker 01

  this dominant species and us and there's kind of like an educational program going, you know, there's a, there's a mutual agreement of sharing to help us evolve.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  And then, and then allowing them to do certain things. I've heard that for years and I never thought that was true. There's a lot of stuff I've like, ah, it's just crazy. But when you, when you hear it

• 56:36Speaker 01

  over long periods of time or, and then you have conversations with certain people that are

• 56:42Speaker 01

  in a place of power or whatever, they, and you hear that same story, you start to take it seriously. I used to think our government didn't know about this. And it was a bit of a shock to, to find out that they did. And actually I felt hope, you know, when you deal with it for a long time. You, you hope that your fellow man, somebody in our species is on it and they are, which is actually a plus for all of us really. Cause the biggest fear I had was like, oh no, no, no one, no one really, no one really gets it and no one's paying attention.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  But yeah, there's, there's a lot of those types of things in this phenomenon that. Are truly unbelievable to me, you know. But I've seen enough to say, yeah, I can't count that out. I can't count that out. Gary Nolan has done amazing things. I think he's a great mind here and as is Michael Masters. And a lot of these people are just, you know.

• 57:51Danny Jones?

  Have you ever talked to Gary? Did he ever scan your brain?

• 57:57Speaker 01

  I've talked to Gary twice. No, no, we haven't got to that point. Cause he's been basically been focusing on military. Military people that this has happened to.

• 58:07Danny Jones?

  Okay, okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he has those area of the brain for people who aren't familiar that the cauda epiglaucoma or the basal ganglia, I forget, I think it's the same thing. It's like more dense with neurons with these people. Some of them have actually had brain damage.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  Correct. So that's the other interest in the, you know, just plainly. The interest that these things have in, in people they've taken are the genitals and your brain, pretty much everything else as far as I know. They're not that interested in.

• 58:43Danny Jones?

  So I wonder what came first? The hypersensitive active basal ganglia part of the brain or the experience with these beings?

• 58:52Speaker 01

  I'm sure it came from the experience.

• 58:54Danny Jones?

  You think it, you think it came from the experience?

• 58:55Speaker 01

  No doubt. Yeah. My, my experience. Yeah. So you get influenced by something that is not supposed to exist and you have to adapt.

• 59:08Danny Jones?

  Right, that's gonna blow your worldview out of the fucking water.

• 59:13Speaker 01

  There's nothing like that, that I'm aware of.

• 59:16Danny Jones?

  Better than any kind of drug you could ever take.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  It's harsh. Yeah, it's harsh. And then you, you know, it instills a bit of fear. You know, the reality is when you see something like this, you are not gonna be happily waddling along saying, "Yeah, I wanna go for a ride," you know? Take me, take me. That's not the truth.

• 59:39Danny Jones?

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• 1:01:46Danny Jones?

  That's 20% off with the code Danny Jones at publicrec.com. After you purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about him and just tell them Danny Jones sent you. Make your pants great again with publicrec.com/dannyjones. It's linked below. Back to the show. That's what Willie said. He was like, he's like, I try to sometimes I try to have experiences with them. He said he wakes up at 4am and does yoga and tries to like meditate.

• 1:02:11Speaker 01

  No, I think there is an effort. That's the odd part. But to think that it's going to be easy and that you're not going to encounter your primal instincts. Is, uh, it just happened. It's not that you're trying to think it. There's like primal instincts in you.

• 1:02:28Danny Jones?

  Where you're like a caged animal.

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, essentially. And you respond and, uh, you respond like a wild animal to them. And I think it's extremely difficult to confront that and to get over that. It's not easy in my experience. I haven't.

• 1:02:53Speaker 01

  I just have a hard time with people, you know, I've heard it a few times and I'm not trying to hurt anybody. It's just not been my experience that, um, yeah, I went with them and it's like,

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  wait, hang on a second. So what about that first, you know, chemical dump that happens when you see them, you know? What about having absolutely no control of the situation? You're okay with that? Like completely no control and they're physical and they're real. You know, and not only that, there's a whole bunch of other things going on that we are just not used to.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  So anyway, it's just, uh, there's another aspect of this too, is if you don't, a lot of times these people are a nesecize in some way. So it takes away that, that, that your ability to feel essentially get into that primal mode or fight, flight and freeze. Or freeze and, uh,

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  It's hard to talk about this stuff.

• 1:04:01Danny Jones?

  Willie said he had an experience where one of the beings like literally started

• 1:04:07Danny Jones?

  mating with him in his room and he said he saw an intelligence officer in the room.

• 1:04:15Danny Jones?

  Like, there's a weird connection with like military and intelligence to these things like, especially in his accounts of it. He didn't talk about it all in communion. It's kind of like scattered throughout his books.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  I haven't had anything, any, anything remotely like that. So I just feel, I've heard it from enough people, friends of mine have been through this, to realize something, there's something to it. I just have nothing like that.

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  I think that would even make it more damaging in some sense to know that your own, part of your own species is involved in it.

• 1:04:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  It's hard enough just with that.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  But had that a human being been in the room with me, I would have been running over if I could. I mean, all you, this is another thing is you, all you want to do is be around another human being when you're around them.

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  You, you want to be around your own kind. It's a very, very bizarre emotion feeling.

• 1:05:22Danny Jones?

  Why are they only interested in kids?

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  No, I don't think they are. I think they start when you're young.

• 1:05:29Danny Jones?

  They start when you're young. Do they, do you think, do you have any reason to believe they stop at a certain age?

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  I was told, I was told that they, they basically stop when you, you hit your 40s. Because you're kind of out of your prime, so to speak. And

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  and a lot of the people I know who've been through this, I gotta talk about them first. I mean, there's so many people out there that have, they're, you know, they're not public, you know, they're just trying to survive.

• 1:06:05Speaker 01

  They've been studied, studied again, against their will sometimes. And they get burnt out, you know.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  I really hope that we ha- that day will come, and I don't think it's anytime soon, where people can, people will be able to be recognized, I guess you could say, and that we get the knowledge that they, they have.

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  Because I, I see it, you know, some of these people are in their seventies, eighties. I'm like, oh, my God, when they go, so does what they know. You know, that means we have to relearn it, you know, or whatever. Every, I think a lot of people have a bit different pieces of the puzzle.

• 1:06:53Danny Jones?

  What do you make of the

• 1:06:58Danny Jones?

  theory of some people are pushing that these things are like religious? Or like have to do with Christianity somehow?

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't think so. I mean, I was that way when I was younger, I thought. I, I was raised Protestant Christian and I put it into that category for a while, you know, of good and evil and like I, I was just angry.

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  But over time, you know, I started to look at nature, wildlife.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  I grew up in forests, so I was very familiar with it. And it just became clear to me like it is just another species. You know, it's not, you know, I can't label, and it really helped me a lot to realize, okay, this is just another animal that's extremely evolved.

• 1:07:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  That can kind of do whatever it wants, is very much an apex creature. And, and I'm not as important or powerful to them as I would like to think.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  And that's been the kind of humbling thing that happens also is, is realizing your place in a sense. And

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  So I don't even think about it. This is beyond religion. This is, this is really science. And maybe our religions in the past have mis- misidentified this phenomenon.

• 1:08:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  And thought it was-

• 1:08:32Danny Jones?

  Totally.

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  Cause it's all about, you know, the things from the sky and there's just, I think we're all learning a lot more about that. As we grow. I just hope we don't get in an argument on that level because it doesn't need to go there. I, I don't see these things as evil and I don't see them as good. They are just another creature that has, just like us, we have our good sides and our bad sides. We're doing things for ourselves and we're doing things for others.

• 1:09:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was actually a very important understanding for me, for me to come to that and, and other people also, I think have. You have to wrestle with it.

• 1:09:14Danny Jones?

  Chris Bledsoe said he's had people in the actual intelligence community verify to him that they, they are spiritual, religious creatures.

• 1:09:23Speaker 01

  I mean-

• 1:09:24Danny Jones?

  What is that about?

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  Nothing, nothing against, I mean-

• 1:09:26Danny Jones?

  Not, nothing against him.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  Oh, not at all.

• 1:09:28Danny Jones?

  He says it was confirmed to him through people that work for the government. I, I believe he said that, right? I think he, yeah, that's what he said. People that are like, work for the CIA. Like, why would they?

• 1:09:41Danny Jones?

  Like, that's fishy, I think. When you have people like that trying to tell people like Chris and confirmed to him that these things are- This is biblical. This is biblical.

• 1:09:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, see, so that's, but if you listen to, you know, different people who've come forward from the DOD or, you know, the different agencies, the higher, higher level guys. They, that's what they've been saying, that there's a conflict within the-

• 1:10:09Speaker 01

  Intelligence communities and then

• 1:10:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  contractors that there's a side who views this as a religious thing. And there are a side that looks at the science of it and really wants it to come out because they they and I think I've come to that same place is like, well, let's just deal with it.

• 1:10:26Danny Jones?

  Do they really does the the faction that views it as a religious thing? Do they really view it as a religious thing? Or did they wanna, did they think it's important for that narrative to be out there?

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  Well,

• 1:10:37Danny Jones?

  Right to like

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  It's a control.

• 1:10:38Danny Jones?

  To prop up society, right? To because they maybe fear for the collapse of religion or something.

• 1:10:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. Right. And those are, those are valid concerns for sure. And I can see why they'd be concerned about that. I mean, I've had it the same way, you know? That was a big deal for me was to have it confirmed by the intelligence community. And that happened in 2021 for real.

• 1:11:04Speaker 01

  But there was no

• 1:11:05Danny Jones?

  Have what confirmed by the intelligence community?

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  That I had really been going through what I was going through personally.

• 1:11:12Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:13Danny Jones?

  How did they confirm this to you?

• 1:11:15Speaker 01

  Conversation. And I can't go too, but I can't say anything who was, but, but I knew they were the real deal.

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  And I appreciated that, actually. It made a big difference for me. You know, when, when, when I got that confirmation.

• 1:11:34Danny Jones?

  This is wild.

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  Well, probably not for a lot of people, but I'm in the circles. So I, people know this.

• 1:11:40Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, people know. I mean, I'm not probably not the only one it's happened to.

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  You're taken aback.

• 1:11:47Danny Jones?

  Somebody in the intelligence community confirmed to you that your personal experiences are real.

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  Correct. Huge for me.

• 1:11:54Danny Jones?

  In 2021.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  2021.

• 1:11:56Danny Jones?

  How do you know this person was legit?

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  Because I could find him. You know, I could, I could look.

• 1:12:06Danny Jones?

  On LinkedIn or something?

• 1:12:07Speaker 01

  Correct. No, no, no, I could look him up and huge resume. I knew where he worked for, who he worked for. There was no reason for him to say what he said. And he actually gave examples. So. And that, I mean, it just, when you go through this your entire life and you're questioning your own sanity around it.

• 1:12:29Danny Jones?

  His first name wasn't Jim, was it?

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:12:32Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:12:33Speaker 01

  I know who you're talking about. I had a conversation with him too.

• 1:12:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:37Speaker 01

  I did.

• 1:12:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I did too.

• 1:12:39Speaker 01

  You did?

• 1:12:40Danny Jones?

  I had a phone, a phone call with him, yeah.

• 1:12:42Speaker 01

  Wow, no, he was, um, I also got confirmation from him in a, in a, in a, in a big sense too. There were several people actually. But it was one in particular who sat me down. We left our phones, went out to a back couch, back out of this whole area.

• 1:12:59Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:12:59Speaker 01

  Had a private conversation and I laughed through a lot of it. Cause I, I, I thought he was joking, you know? And he said, no, no, really. You really have to listen to this. And he said quite a few things, but it was.

• 1:13:12Danny Jones?

  How do these people feel about this?

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  I think they're, they know it's gonna come out.

• 1:13:19Danny Jones?

  But how do they personally, how does it personally affect those people? Do they, do they tell you how they feel about it? How it affects their lives? Like knowing this kind of stuff and not being able to share it with anybody?

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  I, um.

• 1:13:33Speaker 01

  Well, Keem, they're, they're sort of been in the, the audience essentially watching this happen, knowing it's real for a long time. So I think in some of these people I've met that they feel good finally, that they're doing the right thing, you know?

• 1:13:49Danny Jones?

  Are they afraid of it?

• 1:13:52Speaker 01

  Uh, I think it's a mixture, same, same with everybody. It's a mixture of awe and awe and fear. Like, and I think that's true because this could literally change all of our lives in a positive way and, and help rescue us in a sense.

• 1:14:11Speaker 01

  I hope so, but it's also terrifying. But I, I feel like those people I've interacted with feel like they're getting a weight off their chest. Like that, that this, this is something they're, they're, they feel good about. This is not an operation where they're, you know, making here, we're going to do this to do this. It, there's, there's heart involved and I can tell they actually care. And that's a relief. It's been a relief. I can't believe what's been happening in the last year. It's really.

• 1:14:40Danny Jones?

  In the last year?

• 1:14:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's been going on for, but just this past year has been, uh, unbelievable.

• 1:14:49Danny Jones?

  How so?

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  Uh, just all that, that's happened, the threats, the people I've met with.

• 1:14:54Danny Jones?

  The threats, yeah.

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, uh, the conversations I've had.

• 1:15:01Speaker 01

  It's hard to keep up with it. And I'm trying, I also have to live my life and work on my next film. And it's like, I spend, I've been spending a lot of time just like taking in what's happening. Cause I, it's hard to, um, it's hard to believe. And you do have to vet everybody, you know, you really do. You have to, be very careful what you, uh, believe and, and who, who it's coming from and what they're, if there is an agenda, what is their agenda? But yeah, it's just,

• 1:15:35Speaker 01

  and I know I'm not the only one going through this. A lot of people are.

• 1:15:41Speaker 01

  And I have to always remember, like, I'm kinda on the edge of the curve, you know, edge of the, the cutting edge of it essentially, because I demand to be there because it's affected me and affected a lot of people I love and know and everybody in the movie and everything I've done too.

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  I have to realize the public is not quite there and they won't be there for a while. And that's okay. I have to be patient, which is why I would love to share a lot more. It's just, I just don't think it's going to serve me or the whole disclosure. I think we need to be talking about the craft and I can't believe we're, we even got into the back engineering recovery program. That was a shock. Like, I thought that would come way down the line, but no, it was like the first thing.

• 1:16:33Speaker 01

  Oh, man, that was a shock.

• 1:16:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, how do you feel about it? Like even hearing what I'm saying, is it really, is it, is it set your meters off?

• 1:16:47Danny Jones?

  I'm still kind of like absorbing the whole, the, I'm kind of on the fence about the, the nuts and bolts part of it, like with the things that the Navy pilots are seeing. I, I think that's, I tend to think that stuff is probably ours, like stuff that the military has control of. Because why else would it be in a, a Navy pilot, like a training area for Navy pilots, right? Like, it would make sense that if these guys had just upgraded the radar in their planes, we might want to test some like black military projects on them and see like how it works against our top Navy fire pilots, right?

• 1:17:31Danny Jones?

  And I know that, you know, I've read, I've read about and I've read the history on like agencies like DARPA and like some of the black projects that they've been working on forever. And, you know, obviously all of this disclosure stuff has to do with, it revolves around these aerospace companies that are trying to keep secrets, right? They're, they're, they're protected, you can't FOIA them because they're private companies. And I think that's what David Grush was basically blowing the whistle about. Like, his job was to keep track of money, right? And he was seeing that all this money was going unaccounted for to these companies. And like, all these, these budgets were going to them and, and they couldn't, they didn't

• 1:18:15Danny Jones?

  have to disclose anything that they were working on. And um, I think it was Lockheed Martin and um.

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  Northrop.

• 1:18:26Danny Jones?

  Northrop, yeah, yeah, in Ohio, right? So, you know, obviously, these companies have huge secrets and they're spending tons of money on stuff. You know, it's very, it it makes sense that they've probably figured out anti-gravity. And they probably have have developed something. I would, if I was to bet, right? If I was to, if I had to make a bet on whether an American aerospace company figured out crafts that the way Graves and Fravor described them? I would bet that we have figured that out.

• 1:18:57Danny Jones?

  Not to say that, you know, th- this phenomena, I think this abduction phenomenon is a whole separate thing.

• 1:19:05Danny Jones?

  And I'm still trying to wrap my head around it because it's just so, it's.

• 1:19:11Danny Jones?

  A, there's no evidence for it.

• 1:19:15Danny Jones?

  B, it is just like it blows your perception of the universe out of the water. That this kind of stuff could actually be happening. That we are a fish in a fish tank that are being, you know, reeled up out of the water. And poked and prodded and then put back into the water like, you know, pulled out of the literal time stream. And being like, looked at and experimented on by something that we don't know what the fuck it is. That is just like, that's really hard to grasp. Like, I've, I've, I've been thinking about it for a long time now. And it's still.

• 1:19:58Danny Jones?

  It's still something that I think would really break a lot of people if it became. This, if it became something that was like, accepted by the government and we, people, this is what's, this is what it is. Like, if they let this out to the public, I think it would really break a lot of people.

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  I agree. That's why it's, yeah, it's gotta be carefully.

• 1:20:21Speaker 01

  Carefully, carefully done.

• 1:20:25Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  But yeah, I have no question. I mentioned it. I had a lot of conversations on it lately. I mentioned it to somebody recently. You know, when I was in South Africa, in Zimbabwe, particularly South Africa. You know, I went to the Air Force Base, a couple of them, to say, hey, can I get in? And speak with you. And amazingly, I thought they would just stop me at the door. I told them what I was doing, documentary on this issue. The commander said, yeah, come on in. He invited me into this Air Force Base, the main building. And he was a commander. He brought a lieutenant colonel with him, female, blonde hair.

• 1:21:10Speaker 01

  And, you know, I asked them, you guys see this stuff? What do you guys, do you know about this? And they're like, oh, yeah. They were just very matter of fact about it. And I've also found this in South America, another military I was speaking with. You know, and he said to me, he said, you know, we can tell on radar the difference between the American version, the Russian version, and the real thing.

• 1:21:38Danny Jones?

  What?

• 1:21:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. That's exactly what I said. I was like, what are you talking about? That's what I had never heard that before.

• 1:21:47Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:21:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. And the lieutenant colonel's right there. And I'm looking at her, I'm looking, and I'm like, are these people bullshitting me? Because, you know, I didn't know. And I'm like, oh, no, this is, they're really, for real. So we, I was there for probably 20 minutes and they were sharing this stuff with me. I was, but what it turned-

• 1:22:06Danny Jones?

  And they had no idea who you were?

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  They, well, I had been on the radio over there getting, trying to bring out the aerial witnesses and other witnesses in Africa. Because when I was doing aerial, I was also interviewing tons of other witnesses from other events as well. So I think they may have known, they had heard I was in town. It's not a very, you know, if you're in the media in Africa, people know. You know, so, yeah, that kind of, well, it makes me think about what you're talking about. That, do we? Probably. We have great engineers. We've been doing a lot of Townsend Brown, you know.

• 1:22:47Speaker 01

  Electrogravitic work for quite a long time. So it wouldn't surprise me if we have operational vehicles and according to certain people I've talked to, like him, and apparently we do. But here's the question, like on this whole phenomenon, this stuff's been flying around for a long time. Before, since at least World War II that we've been seeing it.

• 1:23:12Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:23:12Speaker 01

  And it's no different than what we're seeing today. The same, same behavior, same everything. So that tells you it's likely not us.

• 1:23:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:23:23Speaker 01

  That did this unless there was some breakaway civilization that somehow managed to, to, you know, engineer and keep it completely separate from everybody else. Back before World War I, World War II, you know.

• 1:23:36Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:23:37Speaker 01

  That's hard, that's a little more hard for me to believe. But, and this is, this phenomenon has been reported all the way back to the early stages of humanity in one way or another.

• 1:23:51Danny Jones?

  Right. I want to go back to those guys that were showing up at your house. How do you know whether or not they were like working for the United States government versus working for a private aerospace company? Because when Chris mentioned the same thing that he dealt with, he alluded to the fact that they were private.

• 1:24:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:15Danny Jones?

  Like these men in black everyone talk about, you know, these mysterious men in black.

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're military guys and that have a great engineering background. They have great engineer, well, they build toys to scare people. What a cool job. It's like they work at the Halloween shop. That's their job and I would love to have that job actually, but it's not some fun when you're at the other end of it. No, I, I knew they were military, there was no question about that, or former military. And when I started to, you know, call around everywhere and, you know, through channels, friends, you know, attorneys, stuff like that. I started to, I just, I had people look at the images of these people and they started to identify, you know,

• 1:25:03Speaker 01

  what likely, who they were and where they were from, so.

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, likely contractors. That's pretty much everybody feels that way. They're military contractors.

• 1:25:19Danny Jones?

  Military contractors working for private.

• 1:25:21Speaker 01

  Private industry.

• 1:25:22Danny Jones?

  Private industry.

• 1:25:23Speaker 01

  Private, private aerospace.

• 1:25:24Danny Jones?

  Private aerospace industries.

• 1:25:25Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:26Danny Jones?

  That's crazy.

• 1:25:26Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:25:27Danny Jones?

  That's insane.

• 1:25:29Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  I mean, I have nothing against those people.

• 1:25:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:34Speaker 01

  Like, I didn't do anything. I mean, what did I do that where I deserved that?

• 1:25:38Danny Jones?

  Let me just connect the dots here for people.

• 1:25:42Danny Jones?

  A private aerospace company in the United States is overtly threatening a private citizen who's having private conversations about aliens.

• 1:25:57Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:26:00Speaker 01

  I'm not the.

• 1:26:00Danny Jones?

  Do with that what you will.

• 1:26:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm not the only one by far. It's, it's actually pretty stunning that they're coming to me. I can understand why they're coming to Lou and Gary and all those other people. I get that. But why are they coming to some, you know, why are they coming to me?

• 1:26:18Danny Jones?

  But it seems like those guys are working with them.

• 1:26:22Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 1:26:22Danny Jones?

  Especially Lou. Like, he seems like, I don't, I mean, I've watched a couple of his interviews recently. Um, and it seems like he is like on the team.

• 1:26:33Speaker 01

  You know? Yeah, I suspect that too. Um, you know, when I, one of these conversations recently, you know, I'm like, why are they doing this? And somebody I respect a lot said to me, well, you're a loose cannon. They consider you a loose cannon. They can't control you. You know, you're independent. And that kind of rang true to me, you know, um, that I can understand, like, that there's nobody that's got their hands in my life to, to be able to shift me in a different direction. Even though I've been very good not to cross lines, you know? But I still think that's likely.

• 1:27:14Speaker 01

  You know, they don't have control of me in the word if I say something that may not, um, I mean, I may have said it in this interview. I hope not. I, I hope not. I'm trying not to.

• 1:27:26Speaker 01

  I'm not adversarial. That's not the intent.

• 1:27:30Danny Jones?

  And there was another incident? Can you talk about the film premiere?

• 1:27:37Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 1:27:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:44Danny Jones?

  So.

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  I'm just debating whether I should. I mean, I don't want to get anybody in trouble.

• 1:27:52Speaker 01

  It was just very strange. There were a couple of people that showed up. My assistant said, hey, the military is here. I'm like, really?

• 1:28:00Speaker 01

  And.

• 1:28:01Danny Jones?

  Were they dressed up in like, like military fatigues or something?

• 1:28:04Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:28:04Danny Jones?

  How would you determine someone's military?

• 1:28:07Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 1:28:12Speaker 01

  But it's the train. It's kind of the training and the physique and the type of training you go through. That's part of it. T-shirts or authentic ones.

• 1:28:23Danny Jones?

  Oh, like skin tight beige t-shirts tucked into a cargo pants?

• 1:28:27Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, well, you know, there's, there's, you can buy a Space Force t-shirt or a, you know.

• 1:28:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:28:33Speaker 01

  But the, the real ones, which are very difficult to get are very different. You know, they're very.

• 1:28:39Danny Jones?

  Oh, so they had like logos, Space Force logos on their t-shirts?

• 1:28:42Speaker 01

  They're authentic. You know, you can tell the difference. Yeah, you can tell the difference, but I didn't notice it and.

• 1:28:50Speaker 01

  Anyway, it was a very interesting experience. People that were with me kind of witnessed, saw it all go down. Um.

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't really, I don't know what else to say. I don't want to get too.

• 1:29:09Speaker 01

  There's a lot of interest in, in anybody talking about this right now. Yep. And, and, you know, especially if you're grounded with it, you know, if you're talking woo woo stuff and whatever, they don't care. It's the people that are.

• 1:29:23Danny Jones?

  Do you still have any personal, do you still have any personal experiences with this phenomenon today?

• 1:29:29Speaker 01

  Um, yeah.

• 1:29:31Danny Jones?

  How so?

• 1:29:32Speaker 01

  I witnessed it in 2019, this, this massive.

• 1:29:39Speaker 01

  Craft come over my house and I witnessed it.

• 1:29:46Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm still thinking about that. That was in 2019. And I got a really, really good look at it. Didn't I was afraid like for my life at a certain point when it it made a maneuver that was very, very violent in a sense.

• 1:30:09Speaker 01

  And I'd never seen anything like that, that big. And I wasn't the only one who saw it. There was a farmer near me. I'm sure other people saw it as well.

• 1:30:16Danny Jones?

  How big would you say?

• 1:30:18Speaker 01

  Oh, man, it had to be 100 feet anyway, you know?

• 1:30:22Danny Jones?

  Round, circular?

• 1:30:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. But, you know, it wasn't what you'd think, you know, as far as like tapered down platform. The platforms on this thing were like they went out like this, like fat, right? Fat, long, two, two stories anyway, no windows. And it had a, I can only see the left hand part of the this dome, right? It went up like this. I could see the other side, but I couldn't see that. I just saw the curve, which is absolutely beautiful. That curve was, um.

• 1:30:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think about that all the time now.

• 1:30:59Danny Jones?

  Did it have a sound?

• 1:31:01Speaker 01

  No, that's what was the most disturbing part about it was

• 1:31:05Danny Jones?

  No sound?

• 1:31:05Speaker 01

  There was nothing. So in aviation, right, or in flying aviation, it's called air displacement. So like when a balloon's going through the air or anything with mass, the more mass you have, no, I'm okay, thanks. The more mass you have, um, volume, um, the more air you can hear the air being displaced. This did, this thing was huge and it had no air displacement. There was not a sound.

• 1:31:31Danny Jones?

  Nighttime?

• 1:31:33Speaker 01

  10:22 at night, PM. I was outside on the roof of my garage.

• 1:31:40Speaker 01

  And um.

• 1:31:42Danny Jones?

  Any direct contact with beings, though?

• 1:31:44Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:31:45Danny Jones?

  Nothing?

• 1:31:45Speaker 01

  No. No, this thing, um, it was almost like, it was interesting because I had just finished the, the rough cut of the movie.

• 1:31:54Danny Jones?

  It's like.

• 1:31:55Speaker 01

  Two weeks before.

• 1:31:56Danny Jones?

  Do you think that maybe like what they do to you when they abduct you, when they, like what Gary's talking about with affecting the brain, a part of the brain by making neurons more dense? Do you think they're doing something to the brains of these people?

• 1:32:12Danny Jones?

  Yourself included, to where it opens up a perception? It opens up a gateway in the mind to where you can perceive this stuff now.

• 1:32:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, but.

• 1:32:20Danny Jones?

  That normal people maybe can't see.

• 1:32:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, but there was a farmer who also saw it.

• 1:32:24Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:32:25Speaker 01

  It was.

• 1:32:25Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow. Okay.

• 1:32:27Speaker 01

  So there were other witnesses to.

• 1:32:28Danny Jones?

  Oh, shit.

• 1:32:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I made a big deal. I went to the police, I went to three police stations, two, two local police stations and the state police. Then I got my fuck, pardon my English, I got my plane.

• 1:32:40Danny Jones?

  Your plane?

• 1:32:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I flew down to Westover Air Force Base to talk to the intelligence officer there. And he was supposed to be there. He didn't show up. And then I talked to him on the phone later. I'm like, hey, you guys got a serious security issue here because I'm 20 miles north of you. And you should know what this is, like what this is, you know, he's like, you mean the drone? I'm like, oh, man, yeah, this is no drone, bro. Like this thing is 10 miles ahead of anything we have. I mean, it was, it was just stunning. I mean, that's, it was oddly when I saw it. And you know, you know, you go through the list of things like, okay, is this a drone? Is this a Chinese lantern? Is this an aircraft?

• 1:33:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:33:22Speaker 01

  You go through the whole list. I do. I'm very like, I don't, I don't, I'm not easily deceived. Because I grew up with a mechanical background, aviation background, like you don't jump to conclusions. And then when this thing got closer, I'm like, oh my God. And then, and it, it was also absolutely beautiful. It was absolutely beautiful.

• 1:33:44Speaker 01

  Um, and it was, there was something peaceful about it actually in the experience and then.

• 1:33:49Speaker 02

  What color was it?

• 1:33:50Speaker 01

  Orange, like a deep, deep sunset orange. Yeah.

• 1:33:54Speaker 02

  Glowing or no?

• 1:33:55Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, it looked like a plasma, right? It looked like a plasma. And then when it crossed in front of the tree in front of me.

• 1:34:03Speaker 02

  The whole thing, the whole surface of it?

• 1:34:05Speaker 01

  No, no, no. It was like a light, you know, and then as it approached me, it crossed in front of the tree in front of me that was forty five feet away. The tree was, and it was behind, it crossed behind this tree. So you can actually do the math considering where I did all this stuff already. You can do the math from the position it was viewed from. Um, and then it, it, the tree, part of the tree blocked out the orange light and then I could see the rest of it. Which is like when you see a light going floating around. And then it gets blocked out and you see this massive thing that is not making any sound whatsoever and it's, and it's, um,

• 1:34:47Speaker 01

  the craft itself, it had rings, right? Like there was a metallic ring. Um, that's the first thing that caught my eye. Running through the center of it, all around the circumference, I couldn't, I can only see that. And it had like a heat, you know, when you heat a metal, there's a rainbow effect. Like a purplish, like sort of rainbow effect that happens. It's kind of like tinsel.

• 1:35:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:11Speaker 01

  This sort of flashiness, that's what caught my eye initially after the light got blocked. And then I saw, so it was like a very metallic, not silver, it was a darker kind of gray color.

• 1:35:23Speaker 02

  Was it glowing like, like, like Chris Bloodsella describes the orbs, like the entire thing glows? Or is it like a, like a, an engine source?

• 1:35:31Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no. It's like, it looks like an orb, right? Or whatever people refer to it as an orb. So the, that orange light, which looks like a ball of orange with like a red tinge to it. And it looks like plasma. It's like a light that doesn't, it's just, it's very strange. I mean, I didn't, as soon as I saw it, I did not take, I didn't think I blinked for forty five seconds. Because I was not going to take my eyes off that thing. And I started to go through the routine of what is this, try to identify. And then when it got blocked by the tree and then I saw the rest of it, which is enormous, um.

• 1:36:07Speaker 01

  I started to get scared, of course. Um, but the rest of it was lit by like a white light. You know, that there was no source, you know, and so you had this ring in the middle that had that rainbow effect on it. There was a black ring above it and below it. And then below was silver and above was silver. And then the dome was also silver on top. There was no windows. I mean, it was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen technologically.

• 1:36:36Danny Jones?

  Any kind of crazy movements it made?

• 1:36:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, it, it, uh, it, you know.

• 1:36:42Speaker 01

  Dude, this is what is really kind of stunning to me just because I'm, I have an engineering background and I build things and, you know, I love flying. I don't, I, I just, I'm an engineer at heart and, uh, dude, this thing wobbled.

• 1:36:58Danny Jones?

  Wobbled?

• 1:36:59Speaker 01

  Huh? It was not stable.

• 1:37:02Danny Jones?

  Like how? Like use this zen can and show me how, how it wobbled.

• 1:37:05Speaker 01

  Like this, like, kind of like.

• 1:37:09Speaker 01

  It was slight.

• 1:37:10Danny Jones?

  Just slowly side to side.

• 1:37:11Speaker 01

  Huh?

• 1:37:13Danny Jones?

  Like an off balance gyroscope?

• 1:37:15Speaker 01

  I guess so, but it was slower than that, you know?

• 1:37:19Speaker 01

  That was, I just couldn't even make sense of that myself to, for such a technological object like that to wobble. Actually, I think about it. Obviously they don't, if, if I built it, oh, it would not wobble. You know what I mean? I want to make sure it looked really sleek. They don't seem to care about that.

• 1:37:35Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 1:37:35Speaker 01

  So, um,

• 1:37:38Speaker 01

  when it broke out of the trees, I knew I was going to get another clear look at it again. And that's when it did this sort of violent move, like counterclockwise rotated very quickly. That's when I got really like, I, I got, I put my hands down on the ground.

• 1:37:53Danny Jones?

  This is it.

• 1:37:54Speaker 01

  And yeah, and then, then I was looking at another sort of perspective of it where there was a platform on the back.

• 1:38:05Speaker 01

  That that it sort of hung underneath it. And there was a white thing under there that looked like a tank, propane tank or something. And it made me think, because I I didn't know about the Tic Tac at this point.

• 1:38:17Danny Jones?

  Like a propane tank?

• 1:38:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, like a white tank with no seams on it. It looked, you know, I first, the first way I described it was like a casket, you know? And then and then underneath that was another platform that was just hanging there. You know, like there was no attachment to the

• 1:38:34Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:38:35Speaker 01

  object. And on that platform, there was like a. When I first saw it, it was, it's like a white box, curved edges, looked super advanced, you know? And it had a little pole on it with a red light. And in my mind, I'm like, that's a power supply, because I worked as an electrician for a long time in commercial.

• 1:38:54Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 1:38:55Speaker 01

  But it wasn't anything that I've seen us make at all. And and then that orange light, which was not on me anymore, had gone around the ring of it and got toward the back of it, very close to where it was. As it was right, right here. And then it got big and just went.

• 1:39:13Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:39:15Speaker 01

  I I'm, dude, I stood up there for 20 minutes, just with my jaw dropped. I felt like a Neanderthal, man, like, honest to God, they are so far ahead of us.

• 1:39:30Danny Jones?

  And it was you and another farmer who saw this?

• 1:39:33Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm sure a bunch of people saw it. The farmer.

• 1:39:36Danny Jones?

  How far away? Yeah. How far away was he?

• 1:39:38Speaker 01

  He was probably two miles away. I was probably a couple hundred yards when I first, probably three or 400 yards when I first saw it. And then the kind of, I'm living here, I'm on the roof of the garage and it's coming this way. And then

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  so it's approaching me the whole time. And when it departed, it was about right here. So when it departed, I'd say 150. Here's the weird thing. That thing, there was no sound even in that. I saw it go. It disappeared into the stars. And I have no idea the speed, but I bet I would imagine within a second it was over Boston, which is the direction where it went. I'm not kidding.

• 1:40:19Danny Jones?

  That's crazy, man.

• 1:40:20Speaker 01

  But there was no magnetic field. There was no, you know, I didn't feel any impact. There was no pressure wave of any, nothing like I don't quite understand the physics involved in what I witnessed. And that there was zero sound through the whole thing. And it wasn't some kind of projection or what do you call it?

• 1:40:42Danny Jones?

  No hologram?

• 1:40:42Speaker 01

  It's not a hologram because so the farmer, he was about two, two or three miles away from me. And he saw it from his angle and I know where he was. And so I went to talk to him. He got all nervous and said, I don't want to talk about it.

• 1:40:57Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:41:00Speaker 01

  That's what happens because it's not open and you know, people are nervous about, oh, what are their neighbors gonna think? You know, they're afraid of what the government do, shut them that, you know, there's it's not a great atmosphere for openness.

• 1:41:16Danny Jones?

  Do you think?

• 1:41:18Speaker 01

  That's the last time I I saw.

• 1:41:19Danny Jones?

  Do you suspect you're gonna get any sort of backlash from talking about these experiences on a podcast?

• 1:41:25Speaker 01

  Oh, definitely.

• 1:41:27Danny Jones?

  Have you ever talked about these things like these guys showing up at your house publicly on podcasts?

• 1:41:31Speaker 01

  I've been talking to a lot of people in the at different media organizations and newspapers and things like that. But this is the first time I'm I'm talking and I have to. I really feel like I've had to come forward a bit. I didn't want to. I wanted to get finished with Ariel and move on to my next project, which is what I'm doing, but I have to address this because I'm worried about my family very straightly. Somebody really needs to look at what's already happened to my family. I'd appreciate that.

• 1:42:01Danny Jones?

  What's happened to your family?

• 1:42:03Speaker 01

  There's just a lot of things that have happened over the last five years that are.

• 1:42:08Speaker 01

  Questionable, for sure.

• 1:42:12Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:42:13Danny Jones?

  Um.

• 1:42:14Speaker 01

  I'm in Congress, really, and I've, I've been trying to.

• 1:42:17Danny Jones?

  You're what?

• 1:42:18Speaker 01

  Congress really needs to, you know, for, to put some kind of protective orders on people because there's obviously a reason it's happening. It's definitely happening to other people besides myself, no question about it. And if it's happening to me, I can't imagine who else it's happening to that I know.

• 1:42:42Speaker 01

  It's something that just needs to stop. It's just, it's not serving, even if it's serving a, it's not.

• 1:42:51Speaker 01

  So it's, it's pretty much bullying, you know?

• 1:42:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:42:54Speaker 01

  They want you to keep quiet and they're doing it in this way. But that's actually creating a problem in its own right.

• 1:43:04Speaker 01

  It, it just could be better, there's better ways to do things than that. Cause they're creating more problems in the process. And, um, I don't know, you get, I mean, I'm just been very concerned. There's no question about that. I wouldn't be talking about, there's nothing, this is not going to help me. It's not going to help me to talk about this at all. And I already have, and I'm worried now, oh my God, what's going to be the repercussions? But you're put in a position like, do I say something or do I not say something? I have to, because it's not even about me at this point. It's about people I love in my family.

• 1:43:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:43:38Speaker 01

  Period.

• 1:43:39Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. It seems like these intimidation tactics, it's almost like part of them is to scare you about, to scare you away from talking about it to anyone.

• 1:43:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:43:49Danny Jones?

  And you're sort of going against that grain by talking about it publicly, which I would imagine would protect you and get this sort of thing on the public record.

• 1:44:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:44:02Danny Jones?

  In case it does happen again, it's publicly documented.

• 1:44:05Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:44:07Speaker 01

  Yep. I appreciate that and I, yeah. I've been talking with a bunch of other podcasters about this and there's probably other shows I'll probably go on and discuss it on. You know, people want to see the videos and all that stuff. It's like, or the photographs, I've gotten fine, but my attorney, that's in the hands of attorneys.

• 1:44:26Danny Jones?

  Do you have any photographs or videos of this craft? That you were just talking about?

• 1:44:32Danny Jones?

  Why wouldn't you be able to talk about that?

• 1:44:35Speaker 01

  I just don't want the um people wanting to see it.

• 1:44:40Danny Jones?

  Just the fact that your response is basically saying yes.

• 1:44:44Speaker 01

  But you know, it's not something I'm gonna put out and

• 1:44:50Danny Jones?

  So this

• 1:44:51Speaker 01

  It's wide angle, so it's not, it's not ideal.

• 1:44:54Danny Jones?

  It doesn't

• 1:44:55Speaker 01

  But it doesn't matter to me.

• 1:44:57Danny Jones?

  It doesn't cloak itself from, it doesn't cloak itself from like photographic equipment.

• 1:45:02Speaker 01

  It did not.

• 1:45:03Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:45:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was a shock for me too, actually.

• 1:45:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the great part of it for me was, it didn't matter. I was there.

• 1:45:13Danny Jones?

  If I was in a, if I witnessed this kind of stuff on a regular basis, or I had a history like

• 1:45:20Speaker 01

  What would you do?

• 1:45:20Danny Jones?

  Like yours, or like Whitley Striebers, I would have cameras on myself at night when I'm sleeping in my bedroom.

• 1:45:28Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:45:30Speaker 01

  You put them everywhere.

• 1:45:33Danny Jones?

  Yep. Do you think they can elude those cameras?

• 1:45:38Speaker 01

  If they really want you, they can do it. There's no doubt about that. And they just control everything electronically. Anything electronic, or even, even if you, so you know, you go to the extent of having separate power supplies, isolated power supplies.

• 1:45:53Danny Jones?

  Right, so they can't shut the, yeah, right.

• 1:45:55Speaker 01

  So if they shut the 110 down, or the 220 down, you still got 12 volts, 48 volts, you got 5 volts running, you got solar running. They can still do all of it. That's incredible.

• 1:46:07Danny Jones?

  That is incredible.

• 1:46:08Speaker 01

  It's the control of the atom. I mean, you know,

• 1:46:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:12Speaker 01

  The control of very subtle, subtle levels of electricity and

• 1:46:17Danny Jones?

  What year was it when you went on Oprah?

• 1:46:20Speaker 01

  94.

• 1:46:21Danny Jones?

  94, and you were on there with Dr. Mack?

• 1:46:25Speaker 01

  Yep, and my, members of my family also, yeah.

• 1:46:28Danny Jones?

  Was that the first time you were publicly talking about this stuff? Or was it, were you talking about it before that?

• 1:46:33Speaker 01

  It was 1992, and, and you know, I didn't want to be public. I I was asked by John Mack to, to do that show in 94, on Oprah, and um I didn't want to do it. I actually, it took two weeks. He kept calling me and um

• 1:46:52Speaker 01

  And I finally, cause he said, you know, Rand, Randy, you're gonna reach uh six million people. That's what convinced me. I'm like, okay, but when I first went public was I'd, you know, been meeting quite a few people this has happened to. Who were very prominent people, some famous people that were in some of these um groups, what do you call it? Um, group therapy, basically, of people who had encountered this stuff. And um

• 1:47:27Speaker 01

  if those people had gone public, many doctors, lawyers, different business owners, like very, very prominent people. They could have made a difference, but they were all terrified to, to speak about it, fearing their reputation. And at that time,

• 1:47:45Speaker 01

  they were looking for people to go public. And I'm like, god damn it, I'll do it. I'll do it. I didn't do it for myself. It didn't help me at all. Still hasn't. None of this is helpful. You know, you don't do it for that. If you do it for that, you're gonna be found out damn quick, what you're, what you're doing it for. But I felt, and I have always felt, that I want to help that person who's experiencing these things not feel so alone.

• 1:48:13Danny Jones?

  For what it's worth, man, last time you were here, you seemed stressed, distraught. You seemed like you were not getting a lot of sleep. Today, you, you look like you're with it. You look healthy. You look fit. You look, you look great, man. And you seem to be in way better spirits than you were last time. Yeah.

• 1:48:34Speaker 01

  Oh, man, I gotta watch that show next time.

• 1:48:36Danny Jones?

  It may not have come through on camera, but just like, just like talking to you, you know, I can really tell the difference.

• 1:48:42Speaker 01

  Really? Yeah, thank you. I don't, I don't see it that way, but that's a good sign. I'm looking for the good signs.

• 1:48:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah, no.

• 1:48:51Speaker 01

  I'm just trying to, I guess all this stuff just, you know, when, when all this crazy stuff happens to you, you kind of have to really get in touch with who you are as a person and.

• 1:49:04Speaker 01

  You know, try to, try to make, make the best of a, a very strange and, and stressful situation. It's, it's, uh, it's funny you say that, cause before I, last time I, I felt like I was in, I sure wasn't going through this. You know?

• 1:49:20Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:49:21Speaker 01

  Um, but I, I think the, the biggest part of my drive is to, um.

• 1:49:29Danny Jones?

  You seem stronger now, whatever that is, for what, whatever that, I don't know what the, what you're dealing with personally, but you seem like you're.

• 1:49:37Speaker 01

  Trial by fire, man. Right. Semper Fi.

• 1:49:40Danny Jones?

  What does it kill you, make you stronger, right?

• 1:49:42Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. You know how they, um, you hammer that steel?

• 1:49:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:47Speaker 01

  Oof.

• 1:49:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah. So you mentioned also that you were upset with John Mack for some stuff, for, for publishing what he published? Or did you ever have any conversations with him about, about that? And why were you, what was going on there?

• 1:50:02Speaker 01

  Oh, no, we, I, we just had some disagreements, you know? It's not around, I mean, he, God, he, that man, um, really risked his everything to come out to say, "Hey, in my clinical experience, these people are telling the truth." I mean, he risked his entire career. Um, and I, I, I think everyone actually owes him a lot of gratitude for taking the risk about something that was beyond himself. And.

• 1:50:34Danny Jones?

  And Danny Sheehan is the one who represented him.

• 1:50:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's how I met Danny. I've known Danny for 30 years, something like that. He's a character.

• 1:50:41Danny Jones?

  He's amazing.

• 1:50:42Speaker 01

  And he's brilliant.

• 1:50:43Danny Jones?

  Such a smart guy.

• 1:50:43Speaker 01

  He's super smart.

• 1:50:44Danny Jones?

  God.

• 1:50:45Speaker 01

  And John, John was like that, too.

• 1:50:46Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:50:47Speaker 01

  Off the charts type of genius. And, yeah, you realized it when you were with him, you know, we're having conversations with him. You're like, oof, this guy has a, just an incredible breadth of, of, uh, knowledge and wisdom. But we didn't always agree, and that's fine. And, uh, so I expressed myself and he'd expressed himself, so.

• 1:51:08Danny Jones?

  Like what wouldn't you agree on?

• 1:51:12Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:51:17Speaker 01

  Well, he was running through a bunch of theories and, you know, what the, trying to grasp what this was about.

• 1:51:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:26Speaker 01

  And to-

• 1:51:26Danny Jones?

  He interviewed how many? Do you know how many people he interviewed? Or did these regressions with?

• 1:51:32Speaker 01

  Uh, well, see, I didn't, I, I gotta tell you something. I did not, I can't, I didn't do that. This didn't come out of regressions for me. Which is why I was unique in that sense at that time was, I mean, I wasn't unique. There was others like me. But all, all the regressions did to me was send me back into my, the trauma. So there wasn't very much information gathered from that at all. Um, and I, I, people have to be very careful with, um, regressive therapy because-

• 1:52:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, Whitley said that that was pretty traumatizing.

• 1:52:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't get anything because I, I was, uh, and it's taken my own work, you know, over decades.

• 1:52:13Danny Jones?

  So it was just a straight up interview with you, just basically talking?

• 1:52:16Speaker 01

  Oh, no, we tried. He tried to-

• 1:52:18Danny Jones?

  He tried to regress me? No, really?

• 1:52:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. It didn't work out so well. Um, it just, it put me right back into the trauma, which that, that was difficult because I didn't need to go back there.

• 1:52:30Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:52:30Speaker 01

  Um, I was curious enough to want to know more, like what, okay, I know a lot of stuff happened that I don't remember. I'd like to remember it. But that's not, that, that didn't work at all. So what I had to do was just to go to therapy for a long periods of time to-

• 1:52:46Danny Jones?

  With him?

• 1:52:46Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:52:47Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:52:47Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I actually decided to work with people that had nothing to do with or any knowledge of this phenomenon.

• 1:52:56Speaker 01

  Cause I didn't want any, I didn't, you know, there was a reason I did that and, um, yeah, it took a long time to work through.

• 1:53:03Danny Jones?

  So he talked to or interviewed, was it hundreds? Was it, was it over a thousand people, do you think? What would you estimate?

• 1:53:11Speaker 01

  I think initially, there was a small group and then by the time he did the 1994 book, I think there was a hundred of us. And then he, I think, I'm not quite sure. I know, I know who would know that, that, um, but I would imagine he probably did a few hundred more after that. I don't know. If he's doing in-depth work, it takes quite a long time.

• 1:53:36Danny Jones?

  And what kind of theories did he have that you disagreed with?

• 1:53:39Speaker 01

  Um-

• 1:53:42Speaker 01

  Well, at the time, and this is still present, there are people that think this is for the good and this is, you know, there are people that think this is benign or malignant, right? Is that the right way to say it?

• 1:53:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah, evil and good.

• 1:53:57Speaker 01

  Right, basically evil and good. And so he would be going that way and I'd be, it's been going on for a long time. It's like, it's not even about any of that. I mean, that's our human construct in a sense, that it has to be this way or another. And I just always, and I still feel that way. Once you get into good and evil and classifying it, you're missing a lot. Cause that, there's a lot of in-between that you don't want to miss.

• 1:54:24Danny Jones?

  It's almost like, I get the feeling that they're doing something that is bigger than all of us. It's bigger than any, like you say, bigger than any individual. They're doing something that is something, it's so big and so important that we can't grasp it.

• 1:54:37Speaker 01

  I agree. I agree. You get little pieces of it. And I agree with that. I think it's beyond a lot of our comprehension. I really do. And there's this big gap that we're trying to, to bridge, you know, to, to understand them and conceive. But hey, you know, I've only seen a very small part of this population, you know, whoever these things are. I've seen what, a science team multiple times?

• 1:55:08Danny Jones?

  And you always saw the same exact beings. You never saw like human beings or like?

• 1:55:13Speaker 01

  No, and they were the same crew.

• 1:55:15Danny Jones?

  It was the same exact crew?

• 1:55:18Speaker 01

  That's the way.

• 1:55:18Danny Jones?

  How do you know that?

• 1:55:19Speaker 01

  You can feel it.

• 1:55:20Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:55:21Speaker 01

  Yep. You feel it. Yep. Yep.

• 1:55:29Danny Jones?

  Do you get the feeling that they were biological? Or did you get the feeling that they were, they were like created?

• 1:55:33Speaker 01

  No, they were not machines.

• 1:55:35Danny Jones?

  They were not machines?

• 1:55:36Speaker 01

  If they were machines, they were biological machines, but they weren't.

• 1:55:38Danny Jones?

  Right. Could they have been like biologically created in a lab or something?

• 1:55:42Speaker 01

  Maybe, maybe. But they're very real and very sentient. And anyway, there's, and they come in four. Every single time it is four. Yep. There's something about the number four, man.

• 1:55:54Danny Jones?

  That's what, um.

• 1:55:55Speaker 01

  Who said that?

• 1:55:57Danny Jones?

  You know, who said that? Well, I believe that, um, Cleland, Michael Cleland said that as well. The owl and UFO guy, you know him?

• 1:56:05Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 1:56:06Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay. I thought you knew him.

• 1:56:07Speaker 01

  I mean, it's. Every single time, four of them.

• 1:56:13Speaker 01

  Jeez.

• 1:56:15Danny Jones?

  No, no reproductive organs?

• 1:56:17Speaker 01

  No, never saw anything like that.

• 1:56:21Speaker 01

  Really bizarre, really bizarre.

• 1:56:23Danny Jones?

  And you said you, you experienced the same smell that Whitley experienced?

• 1:56:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. I described it as burnt lint.

• 1:56:30Danny Jones?

  Burnt lint, yeah. He described it as like burning cardboard.

• 1:56:33Speaker 01

  So real, that's so fascinating. So the, so when I, I was 10 years, 11 years old when I, I, what was it?

• 1:56:43Speaker 01

  I was like a teenager when I described that. I think I was 11 years old.

• 1:56:48Danny Jones?

  And you experienced it, you, you described something in that chapter of abductions, the same way Whitley describes it is he says that when he was, you said you weren't regressed, but he said when he was regressed, he was like jumping timelines in his regressions to back when he was like, from like 15 to 10. I think the earliest he went was 10 years old and you said you went from like a 10 year old memory back to a three year old memory.

• 1:57:11Speaker 01

  Correct. Oh, so yeah, I mean, I, I did do regression, but it wasn't very, uh, I had, it just brought me into the trauma. So I did remember some things, but I, I tend not to put a lot, as much stock as I do with what I saw with my own eyes and felt with my own body. Right. But though I don't take that away from anyone, but I think though, and I did say that, right? And then it brought me back to three. So it was 1970, 1971.

• 1:57:42Speaker 01

  Which is when I think it, that's when it began.

• 1:57:45Danny Jones?

  You think it began around there?

• 1:57:46Speaker 01

  I do. I mean, I know that we've, I've just, we've

• 1:57:50Danny Jones?

  At least with you.

• 1:57:51Speaker 01

  Right. We've discussed it in my family.

• 1:57:53Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:57:54Speaker 01

  So there were some events that occurred.

• 1:58:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just, I brought it up, you know, I had to, I, when you see stuff like this initially and you don't know what it is.

• 1:58:06Danny Jones?

  And Whitley said

• 1:58:06Speaker 01

  It took me 20 years to believe it myself.

• 1:58:09Danny Jones?

  And Whitley said it was happening to other people in his family as well. Like he would experience his other family members like on these crafts or like, he would see them there.

• 1:58:17Speaker 01

  I can't, yeah.

• 1:58:20Speaker 01

  That's a. Yeah. He said that?

• 1:58:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And communion.

• 1:58:26Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. I haven't read it. So I stay away from the books because I don't need to read them. And I don't, when I do read them, I just get more traumatized, you know? I'm not, I'm not learning any, it does, yeah, just, it reminds me of things I have kind of isolated out of my

• 1:58:46Speaker 01

  memory. They're still there. I just keep them locked up.

• 1:58:48Danny Jones?

  Have you ever thought about like, are there, out of all the abductee, public abductees or private abductees that you've talked to? Do you suspect any sort of common commonality or, or any sort of

• 1:59:09Danny Jones?

  pattern in the people that they choose?

• 1:59:13Danny Jones?

  Like the type of people? Something about them?

• 1:59:19Speaker 01

  They're all very intelligent. That, like I, I went for a long time. I was curious, like, who are, who are they? Well, first of all, why me? You know, and then also, who's out there? Like, who else is this happening to? What's the common denominator?

• 1:59:35Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:59:35Speaker 01

  That, that became a big curiosity for me.

• 1:59:38Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:59:38Speaker 01

  So. I mean, some of these people are off the charts geniuses. Some of these abductees that I've met. I mean, they can read an entire book that's 500 pages long and, and then two years later, they can quote you line by line out of that chapter. If you're asking about, oh yeah, that was page 56.

• 2:00:01Danny Jones?

  Photographic memories?

• 2:00:02Speaker 01

  Photographic memories, correct. And then, um, so I think it's a mix of range and I can, I think there's multiple reasons, but I definitely noticed the brain part because I've met so many just crazy, intelligent people, females and males.

• 2:00:21Speaker 01

  And then there's another element that maybe they've picked, I don't know, for genetic reasons or, I don't know. But I try to figure that out. I've not come to a conclusion. But you definitely wonder what that's, what it's about. So.

• 2:00:39Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:00:40Danny Jones?

  Um, so what uh, what sort of projects are you working on right now?

• 2:00:46Speaker 01

  I got three.

• 2:00:48Speaker 01

  I'm I'm kind of have to be, I'd had to be careful because one of these projects is on on my story, which is.

• 2:00:54Danny Jones?

  On your personal story?

• 2:00:55Speaker 01

  Correct, yeah. Yeah, some people have um,

• 2:01:00Speaker 01

  finally figured, or whatever, they just realize it needs to be told, so that's great. And um, but that's why I'm I'm sort of under an NDA for that. And then um, and then I have my next film project, which I can't say anything about because unfortunately, people, no, I know, it isn't. But in this, in this, in the documentary world, you you have to be very careful because somebody will just jump in and take take your idea, unfortunately. Happened to me.

• 2:01:30Speaker 01

  So.

• 2:01:32Speaker 01

  Unfortunately.

• 2:01:35Danny Jones?

  So these projects are about your personal experiences mainly?

• 2:01:37Speaker 01

  No. Oh, no, I want to talk about other people's. Okay. I I want to tell other people's stories. I made that decision a long time ago. I really didn't want to talk about my own story.

• 2:01:47Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:01:47Speaker 01

  You know?

• 2:01:48Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:01:49Speaker 01

  I, it's too difficult and uh, I'd rather tell other people's stories who don't have a voice. Yep. So. But yeah. Yeah, so moving forward and uh, under extraordinary circumstances.

• 2:02:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:02:08Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:02:09Danny Jones?

  In the beginning of the of the of this conversation, you were saying that you are aware of abductions still happening today?

• 2:02:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:21Danny Jones?

  Do you think any of the?

• 2:02:22Speaker 01

  Nothing's changed.

• 2:02:22Danny Jones?

  Do you think any of the abductions that are happening today are anything similar to what the stuff that you were experiencing was? Like with extracting bodily fluids from people and and like the same sort of like reproduction experiments?

• 2:02:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:36Danny Jones?

  Very similar.

• 2:02:37Speaker 01

  Who's, yeah, who is putting up? Who's putting out that dialogue that this has changed?

• 2:02:42Danny Jones?

  Nobody's putting out the dialogue. That's the thing.

• 2:02:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:02:45Danny Jones?

  Nobody's putting out anything about something that's anything new that's hap- at least that I've seen.

• 2:02:49Speaker 01

  Maybe that's the way they want to portray it so people will adjust to it and not realize that there's this other aspect.

• 2:02:55Danny Jones?

  I just haven't seen anything anywhere or heard anything anywhere of anyone new talking about this stuff happening. And I don't know if if that's just because that, I don't know if the reason we only hear about stuff that happened 20 years ago is because that's like naturally how long it takes somebody to be comfortable to talk about this stuff? Or if people are just choosing not to talk about it, or if it's being suppressed, or what, whatever.

• 2:03:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think all those are true.

• 2:03:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:24Speaker 01

  Because it's really hard to come to terms with it. And for sure, it can take 20 years.

• 2:03:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it sure isn't easy. Yeah, but I would, if you want to answer that, there's investigators you should speak with who are seeing people and getting the reports.

• 2:03:46Danny Jones?

  What kind of investigators?

• 2:03:48Speaker 01

  To MUFON, I believe, has their own, yeah, Department for Abductions, you know, for people to contact them.

• 2:04:00Speaker 01

  I think also, a lot of people saw what happened to the people I was around that whole time and how how abused we got by the media and

• 2:04:11Speaker 01

  ridiculed and, oh my God, it was brutal.

• 2:04:17Speaker 01

  And that maybe that has informed their decision not to be public about it. But I I've met quite a few that it's ongoing and if it has stopped, great, but I just, I haven't, I can't, I just don't believe that's the truth.

• 2:04:36Danny Jones?

  Is there a certain like geographical area that it seems to happen more than others? Do they stay away from big cities? They only go to like, like open?

• 2:04:45Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:04:45Danny Jones?

  Open rural land?

• 2:04:48Speaker 01

  I think big cities less so.

• 2:04:51Speaker 01

  But it's all over the planet. I had a woman from Japan approach me at my, one of my screenings recently. I mean, this is fascinating and this is the most rewarding part for me personally is, um, people approached me at the here, the, the, um, my screenings afterwards and they, you know, say, they, they'll give me a note or they'll just tell me like, thank you for validating my experience. It's been happening since I was a child or that's the most beautiful thing. And I always share it with my crew. Cause like, you know, my people I worked with like, hey, this is the kind of effect you have. We've got stacks of letters and emails from, from people of.

• 2:05:33Speaker 01

  And yes, this woman from Japan recently approached me. I'm like, oh my God. I mean, I knew it was everywhere. I've met people from China, Japan, all over, pretty much every single country at this point. It's the same thing, the same thing. We think, we don't have, we have borders. They, they, these things, this operation doesn't have any. They're covering the entire planet.

• 2:05:54Danny Jones?

  Are there any accounts? Or stories people have told you that just doesn't fit into anything you've ever heard?

• 2:06:05Danny Jones?

  Or like, has there ever been something where someone came out, came to you and be like, look, this is what happened to me. And you were like, whoa, this is, I've never heard of this before.

• 2:06:13Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:06:13Danny Jones?

  Or like any new kind of beings that they described that you've never heard of or?

• 2:06:19Speaker 01

  Well, I, I, yeah, maybe I, I've heard a few, but they're so, it's pretty consistent.

• 2:06:25Danny Jones?

  It is.

• 2:06:26Speaker 01

  It's pretty consistent. That's, that's the other thing that gets, that's why people started researching it was the consistency amongst stories, even from people separated by oceans, you know, all across the world was the consistencies of, of many things. You know, not just the description of these creatures, but, um, the procedures, the technology. It's been, it's, it's repetitive. It's all, all consistent.

• 2:06:55Speaker 01

  So there's a, there's a strong body of work. I think it's 90% the same. And then there's 10% that are these outliers that, you know. People experiencing reptile-like creatures and this and that, I, I, I don't know. But ninety percent of them are these little four footers.

• 2:07:13Danny Jones?

  Have you ever asked them or communicated with them, asked them who they were?

• 2:07:19Speaker 01

  I don't think you have the chance to do that. I don't, you just don't.

• 2:07:23Danny Jones?

  Because it seems like there were a lot of people who did ask them that, at least from, um, some of the accounts.

• 2:07:29Speaker 01

  In what position?

• 2:07:30Danny Jones?

  The account that I've, accounts that I've read about in various books of abductees or people that have just ran into these things like randomly in the middle of Colorado or Utah or somewhere, um, maybe not all abductees, but at least like having face-to-face encounters with them where they would communicate with them telepathically.

• 2:07:54Danny Jones?

  Um, I know there was a few of them in, um, in Mike Masters' book, Extratempesorial Model, he lays out at least, I think like at least a half dozen accounts, documented accounts, where people asked them like where they were, who they were, where they were from. You've never talked to anybody who had anything to say about that?

• 2:08:16Speaker 01

  It's just limited and you're limited, uh.

• 2:08:23Speaker 01

  I mean, it depends on the individual situation.

• 2:08:27Danny Jones?

  Cause Whitley, even Whitley says he talked to the being telepathically and he asked like how old it was and it told, it told him it was ancient.

• 2:08:35Speaker 01

  Right. God, I gotta talk to Willie. It's been a while. Um, oh my God. Yeah, that's, that's funny. No, you can, it's, it reminds me like people say, well, if you're on the spacecraft, like why, why didn't you get this? It's like, dude, that's, you're not think, you're thinking about survival. Period. You know?

• 2:08:57Speaker 01

  I mean, that's, that's the kind of mixed in thing unless you're under some kind of their, their anesthetic, which is electrical in nature, by the way.

• 2:09:06Speaker 01

  It, it's, um.

• 2:09:12Speaker 01

  It's difficult to get those questions in because that's not where you're hasn't been with me. That's not been my primary like I would like to survive, you know?

• 2:09:23Danny Jones?

  Right. And what about the little, he talks about these like little like grunty, beefy looking creatures that were like the workhorses, the ones that would like carry you out of the house and like get you into the woods to get elevated up into the spacecraft. Like there was two different ones, or three different ones. He explained the human looking ones, the little four footers, and he explained these other like really little like ogre looking ones that he explained were like the, the, the workhorses that would be doing like the, the labor, the physical labor to like move people.

• 2:10:01Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. I don't think they needed that for me. Anyway, but uh, yeah, no, I don't remember them at all.

• 2:10:09Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 2:10:10Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 2:10:13Danny Jones?

  Well, Randy, thanks for coming on, man.

• 2:10:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:16Danny Jones?

  This has been fun.

• 2:10:17Speaker 01

  I won't be able to sleep tonight.

• 2:10:19Danny Jones?

  You won't?

• 2:10:20Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:10:20Danny Jones?

  Why?

• 2:10:21Speaker 01

  Anytime I talk about this stuff, it's just ripples for several days.

• 2:10:26Danny Jones?

  When I, when I read Whitley's book, I, I, I'm still kind of like, it's in the back of my mind, but it's like, it's, it's, it's living in the back of my mind, that book. It really frightened me.

• 2:10:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. It, it is, it definitely.

• 2:10:42Danny Jones?

  And that's just reading it. Like, that's not even an experience. Like, that's not,

• 2:10:46Danny Jones?

  I can't imagine what it would be like to actually go through this shit.

• 2:10:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's what I'd love more people to understand is how, how impactful it is.

• 2:10:57Speaker 01

  But there's, you know, it, there's a way through it. I'm, I'm, I'm determined that, that there's a way through it. It's just, it's a, so it's not just all, it is scary, but we, you know, there's a way to go get over that somehow.

• 2:11:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:14Speaker 01

  That a lot of us are trying to do. So we can't, because once we overcome that, or get, you're never going to overcome it, uh, adapt to it, then, then we can actually learn a lot.

• 2:11:26Speaker 01

  Here's the problem.

• 2:11:27Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:11:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, thanks, man. It was good to see you again.

• 2:11:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's been fun. Where can people contact you? Um, obviously I'll link your documentary below. Um, is there anywhere else that we can direct people to get ahold of you or learn more about your work?

• 2:11:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, arielphenomenon.com. We're starting a Patreon page for one of the projects we have and yeah, just, uh, yeah, contact at arielphenomenon.com and you'll be, you'll be seeing more of what we're up to and, um, yeah, I hope this was okay to share. I just, I know it's a lot for people.

• 2:12:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:05Danny Jones?

  Well, I appreciate you doing it, man.

• 2:12:07Speaker 01

  And I, I hope pretty soon I won't have to be so careful. You know, we will have moved on to, uh, we'll, we'll have moved on past the, the discussion about what it is.

• 2:12:19Danny Jones?

  Yes, absolutely. I hope to see you again soon in the future.

• 2:12:23Speaker 01

  You too.

• 2:12:24Danny Jones?

  Thanks again.

• 2:12:25Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:12:25Danny Jones?

  Good night, everybody.