3 Mindset Shifts To Completely Transform Your Life & Relationships

I'm going on tour! Come see The School of Greatness LIVE in person! Get my new book Make Money Easy here! The School of Greatness is proud to celebrate the start of Black History Month and showcase powerful voices, as Eric Thomas, Bozoma Saint John, and Stephan Speaks share transformative insights about life, purpose, and relationships. Eric Thomas reveals how taking ownership of your life's narrative can unlock unprecedented growth, while Bozoma Saint John discusses embracing life's magic over logic. Relationship expert Stephan Speaks rounds out the episode with profound insights on authentic connections, exploring why "safe" choices in relationships often lead to unfulfillment, and what it truly takes to attract a meaningful partnership. Through raw vulnerability and powerful storytelling, these thought leaders explore how past traumas can become catalysts for greatness, why living with urgency doesn't mean rushing through life, and how to build lasting, fulfilling relationships. In this episode you will learn:How to take back the "keys to your life" and stop living in a blame mindsetWhy being satisfied with your current situation doesn't conflict with striving for moreThe critical difference between living with urgency versus rushing through lifeThe truth about why "safe" relationship choices often lead to unfulfillmentWhy confidence and masculine/feminine energy are crucial for attracting the right partnerHow lack of healing affects relationship choices and long-term happinessThe power of embracing life's magic instead of being constrained by logicFor more information go to https://www.lewishowes.com/1727For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Eric Thomas – greatness.lnk.to/1696SCBozoma Saint John – greatness.lnk.to/1397SCStephan Speaks – greatness.lnk.to/1351SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy. And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life, and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneymeasibook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment, moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to this episode on the School of Greatness.

• 0:44Lewis Howes?

  Do you think anyone can have a beautiful, amazing life if they live in a blaming mindset?

• 0:52Eric Thomas?

  No, no. You know why? Because what I didn't realize as a young adult is that when you say it's somebody else, whether you mean to do it or not, you give them the keys to your life. You give them power over you. They got your whole life in their hands. Because you said it, you said it. They didn't do this and because they didn't, they got the keys. Now, I'll be honest, the reason why we don't want to take the keys because we got to drive. We got to drive and I told you. Today, I was like, I got too much to do. I normally drive. I'm like, I got too much to do. And it felt good to be in the car driven. It felt good. Yeah. Like I'm on the phone, talking to my wife, we having worship, doing our thing, making a couple of business calls. Like I don't have the responsibility of the traffic.

• 1:31Lewis Howes?

  Paying attention.

• 1:32Eric Thomas?

  I got to pay attention. He moved over and got, I was like, why is he stopping in the middle of the car? But it was a truck. So he had to move over. I didn't know what was going on because it was the first time in my life that I wasn't really like responsible because I normally drive. And that's why people don't want to drive in their lives. They don't want to be responsible. It's so much easier to say, my life is messed up because you did this and you did that. Once you take the keys now, you got to go anything. But I'm gonna tell you this. This is why I like it. While it's more responsibility, it's more freedom. Ooh. It's more independence, it's more control. Opportunities. More opportunities. They limit it. But the limit is when you take the keys. And so I took the keys in my life and said, Ma, thanks.

• 2:16Eric Thomas?

  Dad, thanks for not being there for me. You gave me a dog. You gave me a passion. You gave me resilience. You taught me how to make it when the very thing that's supposed to be there for you isn't there for you. And I tell people, what I want. Some kid asked me the other day, he's like, man, wouldn't you say your son is lucky because you're in his life and his mom is in his life? I said, yes and no. I said, yes, he's blessed to have his mom and dad, but he ain't got that dog. He doesn't have the hunger? He ain't got that dog. Oh, man. My son is a great kid. But he doesn't have the drive. He ain't got the same drive I got. And that drive came without some stuff that I had. That stuff came from lack.

• 2:56Eric Thomas?

  And so I say to anybody, you gotta, you gotta understand, it could go either way. But when you take the, you take the, it's like I walk into a school and I ask, how many of y'all? Fifty kids. How many of your kids in here? A thousand kids. How many of your dads, one in your life was not living in a house? Ninety percent raised that. Wow. And guess what? I automatically can relate to them. I, that, that's the, that's the je ne sais quoi, that my daddy wasn't there. That's the it factor. If my father had been there, I might not be able to go in here and relate. Or my videos that go viral, people are like, okay, maybe if I just had Eric's voice or if I just scream and I just look passionate. Yeah, yeah. Bro, that's not what, that's not what it is. It's when I speak, you hear it because I've been through what you've been through. Wow.

• 3:40Eric Thomas?

  And so you, you recognize that voice. You recognize the pain. You recognize the struggle, but you recognize I overcame it. And that's why you're like, I want to rock with this dude. Cause this one ain't, some kind of way, Eric ain't the one that's making us feel like, oh, it's okay that you went through this and it's okay that this, and you, it's okay if you don't want to grow and it's okay if you don't want. No, what you hear from me is a coach that's saying, Jordan, you got six rings in you, buds. You got to stop playing this way and you gotta start playing this way. Kobe, you got great, but you gotta, you gotta do it this way. Serena, you got a Venus, you got a Dan. Richard Williams is saying, he not out there just. He's teaching, training, but he's also correcting.

• 4:24Eric Thomas?

  And so for me, they hear my voice, I'm not letting you get away with murder. Because greatness is in you. The greatness is in you and now it's time to go to school. It's time to go to work and bring that greatness out of you. So just anybody, anybody could be successful. But as long as you're playing the blame game, you have, you have given permission, the license, registration, the keys, you give it all over to somebody else. And the day you take it is the day that you could start deciding which direction you want to go.

• 4:54Lewis Howes?

  Wow, so that sounds like step one, take the keys back to your life.

• 4:58Eric Thomas?

  Take the keys back.

• 4:59Lewis Howes?

  What would steps two and three be for setting people up for their ultimate life? What would that beginning process, is it, is it get clear on a goal? Is it start with motivation, start with discipline, like change your habits? What would the next couple of steps be to set up the mindset for success?

• 5:15Eric Thomas?

  I, I would say step two, and, and I don't know why they don't teach this in school. Like be your first best friend. You know, like get to know you. We're so busy wanting to be in a community that we don't realize we are a community. Right, and look, I'm not trying to be deep, you know, people could, you know, you believe this, you don't believe in this. But what I was taught, you know, in school, especially Catholic school, it seemed like Adam was by himself first. It doesn't seem like, it was like a, somebody, it was like Adam was first and then whatever happened after that. So the first man was by himself. And I think that's important for those of us who study that, why?

• 5:59Eric Thomas?

  Because all of us think we have to have somebody to be somebody. And this guy started on his, he started his journey on his own before he connected with somebody, whatever. He knew his purpose, you know, he, he walked in his confidence, he walked, and a lot of us are going, I hear people all the time. Ah, well, I'm not doing good life, why not? I don't have nobody, I'm not in a relationship. I'm saying, you, you telling me, no, listen to me very closely. Do you think for one minute that getting in a relationship with somebody, it can't be the key? Because so many people have gotten in relationships. And got that of it. So that that can't be the key. Now, two healthy people, not perfect, but two healthy people coming together. Oh, no, that's different. It's expansive. But but guess what has to happen? You gotta be happy with you.

• 6:40Eric Thomas?

  You could be with this. So we even messing each other up when we have two dysfunctional people trying to connect with each other. Because we think two functional people don't come together to make each other. It's not gonna work. So I just think the the first step after the first step. Is you gotta figure out who you are and love you and feel good about you and show up in the ring. You and not care what nobody think about you. And that's that's why this this relationship has worked so well for me over the years because. When we're together, it's never been a thing of E, why you do that? E, why you do that? Or E, why you do that? It's always been like, E. You have a unique set of skills that make you great. You have a unique set. And so we've always focused on what's our unique skills?

• 7:21Eric Thomas?

  And what do you know that I don't know? And how can you help me get to? And so a lot of these young kids are. Joining things they shouldn't join and being with people because they think their happiness is going to come from being with somebody else. And I just think if you if you be, if eagles aren't trying to. They just are eat. They not trying. Lions aren't. What do you think about me? What do you think about my roar? You think I'm too loud when I roar? They're not concerned. And so I think step two, figure out who you are, love you. And step three. Figure out your north star and wake up every single day going after your north star. Because when you have a north star.

• 8:02Eric Thomas?

  You know, and the people that you love and you spend time with have a north star, have a purpose. And look, their their purpose might be. We both have people whose purposes are help us with our purpose. Yes. They don't necessarily have a an individual purpose. Like they feel like they were called to help us. To serve our mission. That's it. So we need a north star so they can know what their north star is. So that would be my my my third one. It's like, you gotta figure out. What makes you happy. And again, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with. Um, I first time I did a behind the scenes coming in here. Just because I was like to my Patreon community, like, yo, y'all need to understand where I am and what's going on. But I don't, if you follow me on Instagram or TikTok, wherever I'm on,

• 8:44Eric Thomas?

  you don't see behind the scenes. I think that's a phenomenal tool to show other people what, but my wife is private. So, so for us, that does not work. She does not want to be seen in the la la. She doesn't want to be in Dubai and stop and go, let's take a, let's document what we're doing. She doesn't like that. So for some people it works. But I don't have to do that to still find a space, right? There's some people, you know, they do tours, right? I don't do tours. That's not my thing. I used to do them. I don't do them now. There's some people that write books. Some people don't write books. Like, it doesn't matter, but what matters is you have to find a thing that wakes you up at three o'clock or six o'clock or 10 o'clock. Like, you gotta find a thing that brings the life out of you,

• 9:29Eric Thomas?

  the joy out of you, the happiness out of you. And you can't do that following somebody else's North Star. So my last one will be mad. Figure out what you was put on this earth to do, and I mean every single chance you have to do it. Do it, and when you're not doing it, enjoy your life. My son was like, "Damn, I'm tired." I said, "You tired? You burnt out. For what? Look at your mom and dad. You work for the family company. What are you doing?" "Well, I've been up the last six days working 10, 12 o'clock." I said, "For what? What would you be doing that for? Like, why wouldn't you take advantage of the..." He said, "What should I be doing?" I said, "You should figure out what it is you do." He's a designer, right? You should be designing clothes Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, whenever, five, six hours a day.

• 10:12Eric Thomas?

  And then Saturday, Sunday, or Friday, Saturday, because of your family, you should get a trip somewhere and go spend it with a friend. You should go see the, you should go to Italy. You should go to Rome, son. You should go to South Africa, son. You should go to the Gold Coast in Australia, son. What are you, like, you should, what are you doing? Like, you should work, but a part of work also is, where's your play? You should play. We worked hard. So you could be balanced. So don't be like us. We grew up in a working-class home. We grew up in Detroit. We grew up blue collar. You're not blue collar. So go enjoy your life. Be balanced. So I'm not just saying find your North Star in terms of what you've been called to do for others, but there should be a...

• 10:55Eric Thomas?

  How the amount of time that you spend enjoying your life, you know, and enjoying the little time that you have here. We both know, we won't be doing this podcast 100 years from now.

• 11:07Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 11:08Eric Thomas?

  We don't know how much longer we have, but I won't be 154, sitting down talking to you. So however much time I have left, I need to work hard and I need to enjoy that time.

• 11:18Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely. Those are beautiful, man. I've heard you talk about a concept I want to share in a second. But I feel like there's a group of people we've been talking to, you've been talking to, that are the people that have maybe, don't have the opportunities they want, they don't have the life they want, they feel like people are holding them down. That's one group. Then there's another group of people, which I feel like is a majority of people, that have a good life. It's okay, it's good, but they're not living a great life for themselves. Maybe they got a good job and they're pretty healthy, got a decent relationship, but something, there's like something missing. I think if you can, if that resonates with anyone listening or watching, comment below or leave a like if you feel like, yeah, my life is good, but I feel like something's off.

• 12:04Lewis Howes?

  You have this great concept called creating a mental rock bottom to push yourself towards your goals. Can you share more about kind of some practical steps of creating your own mental rock bottom? So that you can go to the next level in your life?

• 12:19Eric Thomas?

  I want to use the term that you use, and you said create. And I just think so many of us have stepped into careers that group. We have worshiped career, careers more than we worship create. And so the first thing I would say to that group is, what would life look like if you did it on your terms? Because right now, you're really not doing it on your terms. What you've done is say, yo, if I want to survive, if I want to strive, this is what I have to do. And you have allowed people to tell you, okay, you need to be an engineer, or you need to be, and you need to move it. So you've done a phenomenal job in being obedient. You've done a phenomenal job in complying.

• 12:59Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 13:00Eric Thomas?

  Like you've done a phenomenal job. You follow the rules.

• 13:02Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 13:02Eric Thomas?

  Congratulations. You don't say like, you didn't rob a bank. You don't say like, you haven't done anything illegal. You did exactly what a good child should do. And I have a daughter, I have to get on her sometimes, because she's that child that's like, yo, dad, what do you guys want me to do? And I've never messed up.

• 13:18Lewis Howes?

  She's obedient.

• 13:19Eric Thomas?

  She's never messed up. I said, do me a favor. Don't always be obedient. Yeah, he is. Like, you need to sit down and ask yourself, if you weren't thinking about the family's name, if you didn't, if Eric Thomas, ET the Hip-Hop Preacher, was not your father, what would you be doing? Hmm. What would you be doing if you didn't have to worry about honoring, you know, the dynasty? What would you, and you're doing a phenomenal job of honoring this dynasty. I'm not saying anything, went to school, handled your business. You've never been in trouble before. We've never had to spend money doing anything. You've been a phenomenal child. But what would you do if you lived life on your terms? And you were able to go where you were going to do? And so that's the first thing I would ask them to do. I want you to think about your life instead of the life. Because that's what you've been thinking about, the life. Now, think about your life, and I want you to start putting it everywhere.

• 14:04Eric Thomas?

  Now, the next thing I want you to do is I want you to know that if you have the ability, like, I never forget. CJ was like, okay, E, you know what you're missing that? The big boy, all the big boy speakers, you know what you're missing? And I was like, no. Ah. He was like, the New York Times Bestseller. Ah. Now, I'm not telling you you gotta do it, but I'm saying, that's what's missing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's one of the, you know? And you, you got it. You got it. And so he was like, first of all, do you want it? Uh-huh. Do you want it? Don't do it because I'm saying you need it. But do you want it? And he could elevate you, but do you want it? And I was like, yeah, I want it. The next question becomes, what does it take to do it? And then, am I willing to? To do what it takes. To get it. Yeah. That, that's it. Because it's a lot. It's a lot. But, here's the thing.

• 14:49Eric Thomas?

  I believe, if you think about it, it is only because somewhere inside of you, you have what it takes. Now, capacity is there. Willingness is something totally different. Yes. That's different. But I want every human to know, you wouldn't be watching the school of, you wouldn't be watching or listening to the School of Greatness if you didn't believe you were greats. I'm just, I'm just, I'm, for real. You, you wouldn't be spending time with this man on a regular basis. I'm telling you, I wouldn't be, uh, going to Columbus. Bruh, I drove to Columbus. Bruh, it's not a, trust me when I tell you, it's not a, you don't get off the freeway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it's not 65 you get on. Why did I go? Because this man is great and- Greats wanna hang with greats.

• 15:32Eric Thomas?

  I need y'all to understand, look, y'all may not know. Listen to me, I've got Nomad suitcases that I still carry this day because he gave them to me. Like, I didn't buy a new one. I've carried the exact same ones that he gave me. And my son bought a set because I had a set. Because it reminds me of him when I travel. It's like greatness, great. So you wouldn't be watching, you wouldn't be locked in. Something in your spirit has you tuned into this man. Cause you know you're great. Now you gotta say to yourself, am I willing to cooperate? Yes. With the greatness that's in me. And then once you do, and you start consistently operating in that, you gonna feel good about it. Here's what you have to do.

• 16:14Eric Thomas?

  You have to understand, Andre the Shield's, I think, saying, the top of one mountain is the bottom of the next. Wow. So, so, so you get to the top of the mountain, but you understand, the, the G, the GED was just one. The, the 40 degree was just one, the max was just, after the PhD was the New York Top. After that, it's the assessments, it's the training, it's the coaching. I, I'm, I'm in masterminds. I, I get coached. Yep. Right? And so it's this idea of yesterday's greatness can't be enough because I'm alive today. So if I'm alive today, it must be some more greatness in me. And it's my job, like the toothpaste. It's my job not to just, I don't know about you, but I would just use a little bit of it and get another one. He getting the last drop.

• 16:59Eric Thomas?

  I'm squeezing, cause I got money, I'm squeezing that toothpaste. Why? Cause I'm trying to get everything out the tube. Wow. Before I go to another. And with my life, before I get out of here, which is why I could murder myself. That I didn't realize at 12 that I was great. And that's why I said you gotta check. In 2025, you, 2025, right? Because I didn't know I was great. And once I checked in and realized how great I was, I was like, bruh, we gonna keep doing this. And to the day we die. And so I would just say, you, you're, you're watching, you're in this space, you're reading his books, you're going to his conferences. Because you know it's in you and it's time to stop being lazy. And it's It's time to activate.

• 17:42Lewis Howes?

  I love that, man. Well, here's the thing why I think a lot of people might stay stuck is they they allow their feelings to keep them in place of frustration. You have this great example that you say execution should be fact based, not feeling based. But people feel the overwhelm of the economy or the government or their parents or their partner or whatever the responsibilities of the world. They feel anxious, avoidant, overwhelmed, burnt out, like doubtful, insecure, and they allow feelings to consume their inaction. So how, what's an example of how someone can shift from being driven by emotions

• 18:27Lewis Howes?

  into fact based actions towards their goals?

• 18:30Eric Thomas?

  It was what you teach, man, the meditation thing. People don't take it serious.

• 18:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:34Eric Thomas?

  This is the time to get control of your mind. And for most of us, our mind is in control of us. So when you talk about meditating, it's like this is a habit of the greats. And one of that, and, and, and, and one of the habits of those individuals who are not where they want to be is, I'm not trying to be funny, but it's like lazy.

• 18:57Eric Thomas?

  To actually meditate regularly is a discipline.

• 19:00Lewis Howes?

  It is, man. It's not easy.

• 19:01Eric Thomas?

  It's not easy to get control of your, I, I'm like, where did that thought come from? Right? So, so, so guys, let's go back to the 12 year old that found the birth certificate. Right? We found the birth certificate. We found the birth certificate in the emotional state.

• 19:18Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:18Eric Thomas?

  We found it in an emotional state. Listen to me, I'm not the first kid who has ever gone through this experience. And you know what I had to ask myself in that mirror at 16, 17, 18? I had to keep asking myself, when you saw it, why did you see it that way? Why did you not call your mom and say, "Mom, you would talk about this"? Why didn't you go, "Hey, Mom, the counselor, can we go sit down and talk to the counselor"? "Hey, Mom, call Dad, can we just sit down"? And I, listen to me, I went from, "I can't believe that you would do me like this". I went from a ball of emotions to living in abandoned buildings. Yeah. It was the most, it was the stupidest decision I had probably ever made. I put myself in so much danger as, as a twelve-year-old, thirteen-year-old.

• 20:03Eric Thomas?

  Homeless? Based on emotions. Only emotions. Yeah. So, the same document, nothing changed about it. But if I could go back as this adult and look at that, I would look at it as facts and go, "Wow, your mother protected you. Wow, your mom loved you so much that she didn't want you with your biological father because she thought he could be a threat. Right, wrong, or indifferent. Your mom didn't do this because she was trying to hurt you. Your mom did this because she was trying to protect you. Your mom brought you into a family. Your mom didn't try to hide the identity. She wanted this man to be your father. He didn't, he changed your name and gave you his last name. Wow, he treated me as if I was his own. Wow. Wow, he didn't lie.

• 20:46Eric Thomas?

  He made his family treat me as if I was, and don't ever say anything about my past because my past has nothing to do with him making a decision at the courthouse to be my dad. Wow. It's the same document. One, you emotional, the other one is factual. Your mother loves you. Your mother cares for you. Your mother's trying to put you in a healthy environment. Your mother has a job. Your mother married somebody who was a former GM. He has a job. He has a college degree. He played basketball. He's a responsible man. He protects his family, takes care. But emotion wouldn't let me be rational. Emotional wouldn't let me think rationally. It had me irrational. So, I would say, when you make emotional decisions, you get emotional consequences. Yes. But it takes meditation.

• 21:31Eric Thomas?

  It takes controlling of the mind to say, how should I behave? How should I think in this situation? And what's gonna give me the best outcomes? And I'm gonna be honest, I've learned, we can save the emotions for when I'm looking at the Nomad bag and going, man, that's my boy. Thank you. Why would you even buy me? Like, what would make you think of, and this is a perfect gift? You know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't think to buy suitcases for myself. That's where the emotion should be. Me coming in, seeing you, hugging you. What's up fam? But when it comes to business, when it comes to being a leader and a decision maker, we not doing emotions. We're doing empirical evidence. We're doing facts. What does the fact say? What does the research say? What does the evidence say? Okay, and based on the research and the evidence,

• 22:16Eric Thomas?

  this is the game plan. Let's go. It doesn't matter how you feel. Yeah, it don't matter how you feel.

• 22:20Lewis Howes?

  Man, I love this. Again, if we're talking about really developing, developing kind of a bulletproof mindset, when the last five years for a lot of people has been a lot of stress, overwhelming anxiety. In order to have a more powerful, resilient mindset, how important is it for, not just me and you, because I didn't know the answer for me and you, how important is it for everyone to have mentors in their life?

• 22:47Eric Thomas?

  It's everything, man. Listen to me. I never even thought about being a multimillionaire or billionaire until I was in the room with Warren Buffett.

• 22:58Eric Thomas?

  I didn't even know how much it was worth when I was in the room afterwards. And then this all started making sense. Okay, now that I know who I am, you, 2025, like, check, I know who I am. Now it's, oh, oh, real estate is a way? Oh, so you mean to tell me that being a blue collar? Okay, that's what my parents knew, but you don't make a whole bunch of money working. You make more money when you put your money to work. Oh, that's real estate? Oh, helping kids who are talented figure out their talent, taking a percentage? Oh, okay, okay. I didn't even know this stuff exists. Got it. And so it is, it is important. Bob Proctor pulling me to the side. How much do you charge? You should be charging. Les Brown calling me and said, I'll meet you in Orlando. Les Brown sitting me down, talking to me.

• 23:43Eric Thomas?

  Listen to me, coaching is everything. Why? Because I just said, think of Michael Jordan without Phil Jackson.

• 23:50Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 23:51Eric Thomas?

  Think of Venus and Saru, uh, Venus and Saru without Richard Williams. Like, yo, I just want you to picture Kobe without Phil Jackson. Think, think about Tim Brooke without Mike without, you know what I'm saying?

• 24:03Lewis Howes?

  Tim Curry.

• 24:03Eric Thomas?

  Come on, not Tim. Where would he? So, so coaching is critical. Here's what's gonna blow your mind. When you get to our level, you really need more coaching. Cause we done exhausted all the stuff. You really need coaching.

• 24:17Lewis Howes?

  After Jordan, after Jordan won his first championship, he didn't say, I think I've got it figured out on my own. I don't need a coach. He said, let me find Tim to train me. Let me find the mindset coach, the recovery coach, you know, make sure we're getting to the next level.

• 24:31Eric Thomas?

  They said, they said, I, I, I read it, but it's research. I, I'm almost sure it's true. That LeBron, look at LeBron, what he's doing right now.

• 24:37Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing, man.

• 24:39Eric Thomas?

  Bro.

• 24:39Lewis Howes?

  Forty, a forty chicken dunking on twenty years.

• 24:41Eric Thomas?

  Whoever had the, the arguments, you know what I'm saying? Cause there were those of us who was alive.

• 24:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:46Eric Thomas?

  We, we watched Jordan do his thing. But bro, what LeBron is doing right now. But when I do my research and not emotional about, oh, how is he doing it? Just hey, no, when I do my research, he spent a one point five million on his body, meaning recovery coaches, meaning dietary coaches.

• 25:03Lewis Howes?

  Everything.

• 25:03Eric Thomas?

  Meaning mental and emotional coaches, acting coaches. Like he got on, and so you see the decision he made and you see, okay, yeah, he was great. But that investment that he made in himself, and now look at his son is in, and then he got another son as part. These are decisions that he's making. He's not emotional. These decisions are based on facts of experts and then we seeing the outcomes of it.

• 25:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:26Eric Thomas?

  We, we're seeing the numbers that he putting up at this age versus the, and nobody's ever put these kind of numbers up at this particular age.

• 25:34Lewis Howes?

  Crazy, man.

• 25:34Eric Thomas?

  So we all need coaches, you know, and so that's why I've made the decision that E, the one area that you need to step up in, speaking is good, traveling the world, talking, but you gotta, the same way people open up doors for you and walk you through. You have got to do the same thing and I've literally the last two years have had a small group of people that every morning I wake up with. And I train them for an hour every single morning.

• 26:02Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing.

• 26:03Eric Thomas?

  And what's amazing about that is to see the difference between people I coach and people who watch me online.

• 26:09Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 26:10Eric Thomas?

  It's a difference. You watching me online, you getting the motivation, but you're not getting the daily schedule. You're not getting the things to do list.

• 26:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:17Eric Thomas?

  You're not, you're not getting the, the mindset. You're not getting the analytics. You're not getting the blueprint. So it's like you're watching and then you interpret. And this is why I think audio books are good, but I think. Training with our books are good because people will read our books and interpret them in a way that we didn't intend for them to interpret it.

• 26:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:37Eric Thomas?

  So when we do the training or they get to come to a conference where they get to watch the podcast, they're really investing more to what was, what was he really saying?

• 26:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:47Eric Thomas?

  And if they can do what you're saying, that habit, they can get the outcomes that me and you get.

• 26:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and it's also being around other people who are in that mindset, who are pushing and you're seeing them grow and it's influencing you to grow and you're.

• 27:00Eric Thomas?

  Yeah.

• 27:00Lewis Howes?

  So the community aspect of we're getting coached together, we're growing together, we're working on our goals together, all that stuff. You've got an amazing challenge coming up.

• 27:09Eric Thomas?

  Yeah.

• 27:09Lewis Howes?

  It's a U2025.com where you're going to put people through a lot of what we've been talking about and more.

• 27:16Eric Thomas?

  21 days.

• 27:18Lewis Howes?

  21 days, every day, coaching, teaching, mentoring, giving them.

• 27:22Eric Thomas?

  Schedule, what I actually do, not just the passion and stuff you hear it online, but the actual, and for free, but you, I'm gonna walk you through. How many steps I take a day.

• 27:34Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 27:34Eric Thomas?

  What I'm drinking, why do I, why did I decide to wake up at this time?

• 27:37Lewis Howes?

  Beautiful.

• 27:37Eric Thomas?

  Why am I doing this? So that you can start the year off.

• 27:42Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 27:42Eric Thomas?

  There should be like in class, especially if you go to college, it should be like you, uh, you owe you 101, you owe you 215. Like you owe you 312, like literally you get to sit down and go, what, who am I? What are my skills? What are the things that I'm challenged with? Like what industries would I be best in? We spend so much time trying to get that we, I don't think we spend enough time. Who we are, like who should we become?

• 28:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's beautiful, man. So they can go to you2025.com to register for that.

• 28:17Lewis Howes?

  That's powerful, man. I feel like I could talk to you for a long time on this, but I wanted to ask you a couple more questions before we wrap up. Again, we're going back to the 12-year-old you who's who's down and out figuring about your dad's not your your biological dad in your life, your mom lied, you know, challenges in life.

• 28:37Lewis Howes?

  And we're talking about where you're at now. Where do you think you'd be without a spiritual relationship with God in your life over the last 30-plus years with all the ups and downs? Where would you be in life right now, the ETU with no spiritual relationship?

• 28:53Eric Thomas?

  I'd say either dead. I'd say dead.

• 28:55Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 28:56Eric Thomas?

  Yeah, because I was an extremist. You know, everything I did, I did it to the fullest, you know, so I think I would be dead, honestly. I would say this to simplify for people because sometimes when you talk spirituality, it's just for some people, it's just too deep. I would say to you, what happened when I, you know, made a commitment to God is that I connected with the person that made me, that knew me like nobody else knew me, and he coached me from the 12-year-old to now. He coached me. He's like, bro, I know you. I made you. I know. I know what's the best environments for you. I know who's good for you, who's not good for you. I know your temptations. I know your, um, your vices. You know, I know your good habits, your bad habits, and just let me, let me teach you. You know, and so it was maybe five, six years of fighting.

• 29:42Lewis Howes?

  Resisting.

• 29:42Eric Thomas?

  Resisting, you know, and because he introduced himself to me at eight. And I guess maybe it was too young, but homeless. I was like at 16, like, okay, I'm ready to get coached. Where's that coaching program you said you had? I'm ready for that coach. And so from 16 to maybe 25, you know, it was like, okay, I'm going to come to coaching some days, some days I'm not, some days I'm going in, some days I'm not. And then my son was born. I was almost 25 years old. Jalen was born. And, um, Jalen was born in 1995. I turned, um, 25 in September. He was born July 20th. And when Jalen was born.

• 30:20Eric Thomas?

  It was the day Coach said to me, this is why I've been trying to train you. Because I wanted you to be the best father you could be. Wow, yeah. And so you miss him, you miss him classes, you miss him lessons. Your son is here now, he needs the best version of you. Wow. We can't, we can't, we can't repeat the mistakes of the past. And so, I need you to hurry up. And so when Jalen was born, from that day forward, I, you know, I remember when he was born, I held him. And it was kind of like he lifted me, like you the person that's gonna take care of me? Wow. You know, and that was the day, and this is what a lot of you are running from, it's the R word. And I get it, because it's tough, responsibility. Oh. That was the day where it's like, oh, you gotta be responsible for somebody else. Yeah.

• 31:03Eric Thomas?

  You, you cannot, you got, I've never played a video game since Jalen was born. Wow. I've, I've read more books since Jalen was born. That first year or two that I ever read in my life, I took my career serious with speaking. I start, you know, Zig Ziglar, you know, Nightingale, you know, Agmondino. Yeah, Bob Proctor, all these. Bruh, you name them, Dennis Kimbrough, like I went, I went deep, I went heavy, you know, um, Arthur Ashe, you know, Days of Grace. And I read everything, I was in the library like an addict, just studying and studying and studying. And it was because I didn't want the, I didn't want some of the consequences of the past to come in this generation. You know, and so for me, it was like, yo, your son's here, you gotta handle your business.

• 31:47Eric Thomas?

  And I just heard, I was more attentive, I started getting up at six. And then I'd play this game, daylight saving times would come, I would, okay, say, don't follow it, stay up. At five is the new, and then the next year, the four, and then I got started getting up at three. And I started getting up at three o'clock in the morning because it was still, there was no dogs outside. Nobody was driving around, the family was asleep. And I was like, okay, Coach, I'm sorry, let's go back over the lessons I didn't get, and let's go over the new lessons. Like, Coach me, show me, show me, nobody knows me. And I tell people, I had a brand new Cadillac, man, it ain't had 10,000 miles and the engine blew. And I immediately took it back to Cadillac, I didn't take it to BMW, I didn't take it to Honda, I took it straight to Cadillac.

• 32:29Eric Thomas?

  And I, I went right back to the Creator, like, yo, you made me, and I'm tearing this car up. I'm not putting oil in it, I'm not changing the, rotating the tires, I'm not putting fluid in it, show me how to take care of this. Wow. And he began to show me how to do it, and it's just like amazing to see. When we're on one accord and I'm following the, he told me, he's like, yo, it's time. I think I called you maybe last year. I'm like, yo, I need to, and he was like, no, no, you're just supposed to call and say what's up. You know, and then this time it was like, yep, you need to do it. You know, I was like, alright, I got it, Brandon, I think. And I was like, alright, you know what I'm saying? So just listen to him, doing what he's telling me to do, and let the coach be. So I would say, you know, don't spiritualize it and make it too repetitive to do. It's the coach. And just get a relationship with the coach, let the coach get a relationship with you, and just do what he tells you to do, and you're gonna love the results.

• 33:14Eric Thomas?

  And so I don't want to just be happy. I want the creator to go, yeah, I'm grateful that I created you. And I see your doing in the world, whether it was that I wanted you to do. And now, also for yourself, what I wanted you to do, because I wanted you to be happy too. I didn't want your life to just be about work and being a blessing. I wanted you to be blessed as well, so that's it.

• 33:40Lewis Howes?

  You're a very driven person. You've shown that over your whole career, right, in your life? Overcome a lot of different challenges and adversities in the first time in so many different ways.

• 33:52Lewis Howes?

  When someone is going through a dark time,

• 33:55Lewis Howes?

  and however that looks for them, a breakup, a death, a letdown, any type of dark time in their life, is it possible to keep being driven in your career and your goals and your dreams when you're going through sadness and darkness and grief and loss?

• 34:14Lewis Howes?

  Without also be, being able to heal in, on the process? Can you, can you heal and be driven at the same time?

• 34:25Lewis Howes?

  Or is it only, you can be driven because you're masking the pain and the suffering and you're not actually addressing it? Is it possible to do both, be driven in the darkness?

• 34:34Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah, well, that's what's so beautiful about this experience in life, right? Is that like, we don't have to be one dimensional. That all things can be true at the same time. You know, it's, it's the reason why it's like, I remember, um, once shortly after Peter had died, uh, I was sitting with a friend and she was telling me a story and I started laughing hysterically. You know, it was like,

• 34:56Lewis Howes?

  After he died?

• 34:56Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah, it was, it was like from my belly. You know, the kind of laugh that makes you want to fall over and slap something, you know, that kind of laugh? And then almost stopping short because I was like, oh, I'm supposed to be sad. You know, I'm not supposed to laugh like this. The truth of matter is that like, isn't that what life is? You know, even when you're grieving, you can have belly laughs.

• 35:16Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:17Bozoma Saint John?

  That take you out of that pain for however long that is. Maybe it's a second, or maybe it's five minutes, or maybe it's a few days. You know, so like, if you're in a dark place, can you still be driven? Of course you can. You know, it's not a constant either, though. You know, where like, being gentle with yourself and knowing that like, even when you're in the darkness, there will be times when you don't feel like getting up. But doesn't, it's not forever. You know, or to feel badly that you're driven even though you're going through something. You know, so like, even when, yeah, it was like, when I decided to move from New York and take the next job,

• 35:59Bozoma Saint John?

  and people were like, "Pfft, shouldn't you be in a cave somewhere crying your eyes out?" You know, like, "Why are you, why are you so ambitious? Sit down."

• 36:07Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 36:08Bozoma Saint John?

  You know? And, yeah, I did question myself too, like, "Why am I not sitting down somewhere? Like, why, why am I still out here pushing?" You know, like, there were, there've been many, many moments like that. And I don't think that there has to be only one definition for how we are. You know, so like, yes, if you're in a place where you feel like the textbook expectation should be that you should take one step at a time, take it one day at a time. I hate that phrase, by the way.

• 36:39Lewis Howes?

  Instead of taking it one day at a time, what should we do?

• 36:42Bozoma Saint John?

  Oh, we should take it all. Do everything, all at once. Make it messy. Make it unpredictable. Defy logic. Like, why does it have to be so ordered? One day at a time for what? One step at a time for what? Sometimes I'm gonna, sometimes I'm gonna run. Sometimes I'm gonna skip. Sometimes I'm gonna go backwards. Sometimes I'm gonna lay down. Sometimes I'm gonna sit up and look at the world. And sometimes, yes, I will take one step. But why does it have to be so ordered all the time? And so the freedom in that, I think, allows us then to be multiple things at one time. So that, yes, you can be driven and in a dark place. You can be hurting and still laugh.

• 37:24Bozoma Saint John?

  You can be healing and still trying to figure out how to avoid the next hurt. You know? Like, all of those things can be true at the same time. It doesn't have to mean that you're wrong, or that you're doing it wrong. You know, it's like, there's no definition for how you're supposed to live your life. And I think that's also the other beautiful thing. You know, the fact that like, no one has ever been where I am before. Not a person on the planet. You know, and so it's like, why would I subscribe to the steps somebody else thinks should be ordered for me?

• 37:56Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 37:57Bozoma Saint John?

  There's no plan like that.

• 37:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, no one fully understands

• 37:59Bozoma Saint John?

  No one.

• 38:00Lewis Howes?

  your life experiences. They might be able to relate to some things, but they don't fully understand and comprehend everything.

• 38:06Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's so much freedom in that.

• 38:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 38:09Bozoma Saint John?

  It's like, you don't have to listen to anybody.

• 38:12Lewis Howes?

  Right, exactly.

• 38:13Bozoma Saint John?

  You know, and so it's like, yes, you can, you can be hurt and trying to heal, maybe taking the steps to healing. You know, whether that's therapy, or you're working on something that you feel like, or taking a risk that you would have been fearful of before, but still like, being driven about this thing, or like, being, you know, like, okay, I'm gonna accomplish this even though I'm not a hundred percent. Like, that's the thing that always like, I'm thinking about is that like, again, you don't have to have a full tank of gas to get to the other side of town. You know what I mean? Maybe you had a quarter tank. And you know that it's gonna take you like, you know, just up to that, like, right at that quarter to get there. You know, it's like, go anyway. Why does the tank have to be full? You know what I mean?

• 38:55Bozoma Saint John?

  So for me, I'm constantly thinking about that, that like, I'm still in the process of healing. You know, that, that whole statement about like, time heals all, heals all wounds. It's a bull. Okay.

• 39:08Lewis Howes?

  Well, since you can say that, because my, I've got an emotional coach that I work with, I was telling you about, pretty much every two weeks. Uh, and

• 39:18Lewis Howes?

  she says like, healing's a journey. It's not like a destination where you're like, okay, now I'm healed. It's, okay, now I've come to an awareness about the things. Now I've started processing it. Now I'm integrating the lessons. Now, oh, now I went back two steps because I triggered again. Uh, now I reintegrate and I process it some more. And time helps, but it may not heal all.

• 39:38Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah.

• 39:39Lewis Howes?

  You know what I mean?

• 39:39Bozoma Saint John?

  Yes.

• 39:40Lewis Howes?

  So it's, it's our constant awareness of it. Constant grace in the process of being a human being.

• 39:47Bozoma Saint John?

  Yes.

• 39:48Lewis Howes?

  Of it, you know what I mean?

• 39:49Bozoma Saint John?

  Yes, you know, he just made me think of something because like this idea of like waiting to heal before you do the thing. That's like the opposite of living the urgent life. You know, because if you're constantly waiting until you are healed or you're constantly waiting until that next thing happens or you get to the right spot or da-da, then you won't be fulfilled in your life. You know, if I waited to be totally healed from the trauma of my husband dying, I would not have moved across the country.

• 40:19Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 40:20Bozoma Saint John?

  If I was waiting to be healed from the death of my first child, I would not be a mother today. You know, if I was wait, like all these things that we're waiting to accomplish or waiting to be fixed before you can do the next thing.

• 40:35Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 40:35Bozoma Saint John?

  It's just, it's like a waste of time.

• 40:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I think it's inspiring when we have the courage to do the next thing and be aware that we're on a healing journey.

• 40:44Bozoma Saint John?

  Yes.

• 40:44Lewis Howes?

  You know, I'm never gonna be fully healed, but I'm in the process of it. I'm working on it. I'm doing this and I'm gonna do it anyways.

• 40:51Bozoma Saint John?

  And there's no shame.

• 40:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 40:52Bozoma Saint John?

  There's no shame in that, you know? By the way, that's another like whole unlock that I had for myself and in my career, believe it or not, was that I opened this vulnerability that I had closed off before. You know, this idea of the perfection, that things had to be great and like complete in order to move to the next thing. And very quickly, I mean, I was kind of thrown into it when I accepted the job with Jimmy, that like I had no idea of what music streaming was. I'd never done that before. I was not an expert in it. But it didn't mean that I couldn't go do it and guess what? I figured it out. You know what I mean?

• 41:34Bozoma Saint John?

  Or like moving, any, anything in my life, which has felt like, gosh, I need to like really have conquered this thing in order to move to the next one, has been a lie. And it is actually how I counsel, a lot of women especially, who are like early in their career or mid-career even, you know, that, who are waiting to...

• 41:59Bozoma Saint John?

  Rack all the things before they take the next risk.

• 42:01Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 42:02Bozoma Saint John?

  I'm just like, you know, you know that like that actually doesn't work, right? Like you don't, you can't wait until like you've checked off every box. Before you jump to the next thing that you gotta do. You gotta leave some room for growth. You know, your, your cup is, if it's all the way full, how you gonna put more stuff in it? You know what I'm saying? Like it's, you gotta have a little bit, open, open at the top. In order to pour more experiences in there.

• 42:25Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 42:26Bozoma Saint John?

  You know, so it's like, if you're ever just like full to the brim. If you've checked off everything, then there's no more growth for you. So as I even look at myself, that is where I am now. Whereas it's like, there is no more growth if you're all the way full. If you're checked off everything before you take the next risk. Where are you gonna put the stuff that you're getting?

• 42:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:46Bozoma Saint John?

  You know, so yeah, it's like, leave the tank like quarter full.

• 42:49Lewis Howes?

  Well, that's why I think it's really cool because in this off season that you're having in this last year. You're filling up your cup of your health and wellness. You're filling up your relationship cups. You're filling up your adventure and travel cups. You know, your relaxation cup. You're filling those up, but you're emptying your cup of career and success and this. To see the space of what can come in next.

• 43:12Bozoma Saint John?

  That's right.

• 43:12Lewis Howes?

  To see where you can grow into next.

• 43:14Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah.

• 43:14Lewis Howes?

  So I think it's a, a great analogy. It's like, you know, fill your, fill another cup, you know?

• 43:18Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah.

• 43:19Lewis Howes?

  But that cup, you gotta empty it out.

• 43:20Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah, exactly. Or get more cups. You know what I'm saying? Get more cups, you know what I mean? It's like, maybe my corporate cup is full.

• 43:27Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 43:28Bozoma Saint John?

  I have a brand new cup.

• 43:29Lewis Howes?

  But you look like you're in your best health and wellness phase of your, you know, since I've known you.

• 43:33Bozoma Saint John?

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:34Lewis Howes?

  Not that you were not in great shape before or emotionally in a good place. But you, you feel energetically peaceful. You, I see you training. I see you like getting healthy in a big, even better ways. Uh, I see you with photos with your daughter and things like this. And, and just like enjoying life together, traveling and bringing her in your life more in those.

• 43:53Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah.

• 43:54Lewis Howes?

  Trips, I'm sure you did that before too, but. And so you're able to experience things in a different way to allow for things to open up. Which I think is great.

• 44:00Bozoma Saint John?

  Absolutely, absolutely. But that's also, like I said, part of the learning of this, you know, which is just like. I don't have to have had things complete in order to move to the next thing, you know? I'm sure there are people who would look at my career and say, oh, but you haven't done that thing yet. You know, don't you think you should do that before you retire?

• 44:20Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 44:21Bozoma Saint John?

  You know, but like, do I need it? Probably not, you know? And so it's like, why, why continue? You know, why continue to do that thing? So, again, I think is a lot of, a lot of it really just has to do with self-reflection at the end of the day.

• 44:37Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 44:38Bozoma Saint John?

  You know, listening to your own spirit, listening to your own needs and wants, and making sure that you're not lying to yourself, you know, based on the stories that other people have told you. Based on narratives that are running around the planet that you've accepted as the truth, and maybe were lies. You know what I mean? So I feel like there's such an opportunity for me too, you know, to relook at everything and yes, be a healthier human and focus more on like, yeah, my physical health.

• 45:08Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 45:09Bozoma Saint John?

  And focus on my relationship with my daughter. You know, explore the planet in ways that I haven't before. You know, like in 2022, I did a little Instagram reel about this that I, every month last year, I worked out in a different country.

• 45:24Lewis Howes?

  You worked out in a different country?

• 45:25Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah.

• 45:25Lewis Howes?

  That's pretty cool.

• 45:27Bozoma Saint John?

  It was fantastic.

• 45:27Lewis Howes?

  That's awesome.

• 45:29Bozoma Saint John?

  But you know, it was like, God, what a dream, you know, to be in a place where I'm financially secure enough to do that.

• 45:36Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 45:37Bozoma Saint John?

  Where I have the time

• 45:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:39Bozoma Saint John?

  to do that.

• 45:39Lewis Howes?

  You spent 20 years building your career and you're, you know, stacking your income and saving and investing so that you have the opportunity after 20 years to do that.

• 45:47Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah, and to take advantage of it now.

• 45:49Lewis Howes?

  And enjoy it.

• 45:50Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah.

• 45:50Lewis Howes?

  And have an urgency around it.

• 45:52Bozoma Saint John?

  Man, because like, what am I gonna do when I'm 75? Well, hopefully I'll still be working out and still healthy, but you know what I'm saying? Like, waiting for that is not the answer. So even in that, I have urgency.

• 46:06Lewis Howes?

  So there's this, you know, I love the, your story about you were satisfied at 20 something years old in the back of the, you know, the cab or the black car. And you're satisfied now, and I think a lot of people. Hear this concept of never be satisfied. But we were just talking about how, you know, be satisfied with where you are, but also be striving for your purpose, your mission, and stepping into that.

• 46:30Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah.

• 46:30Lewis Howes?

  And what are your thoughts on the idea of never be satisfied?

• 46:34Bozoma Saint John?

  You know what, I understand why somebody would say that. You know, like, you should always be hungry. Like, you should always be chasing, that's a good motivator, you know, to get the next thing, so that you wake up and you wanna go get it. But that's a terrible way to live. It's a complete, I vehemently disagree with the concept that you should never be satisfied. It was like, you should, you should be satisfied. You should be satisfied. You should wake up feeling satisfied with your life. It doesn't mean that you don't want the next thing. Of course you want the next thing. But like, if, if life were to end today, would you want to have lived an unsatisfied life?

• 47:13Bozoma Saint John?

  Would you want, like, like, I think, I really do think of Peter at that, at those last days. You know, and think about all the things that he was unsatisfied about. I don't want that for myself. I don't want that for you. I don't think any of us should live that way. So be satisfied. You know, and that doesn't mean lesser than.

• 47:35Lewis Howes?

  Be satisfied even if you're just starting out as an assistant getting coffee? If you're the CEO, if you're anywhere in between, if you're in an off-season?

• 47:43Bozoma Saint John?

  Yes.

• 47:43Lewis Howes?

  Be satisfied.

• 47:45Bozoma Saint John?

  Be satisfied with like, how wonderful you have it. You know, even the least of us, even the people who are like, you know, in this terrible place, like I said, like, we can be satisfied. Like, the day after Peter died, actually, no. It was, it was a few days later because we were having his funeral. He died on December 11th, 2013. It was four days before his 44th birthday. And so on his 44th birthday, December 15th, we had his funeral. And made it a party. And I was sitting there and, you know, kind of in a haze, but then also, you know, that moment of clarity. Where I'm looking around the room and like, his fraternity brothers are drinking beers

• 48:28Bozoma Saint John?

  and they're sharing stories about him and, you know, my daughter's like, sleeping on my mom's lap and I've got my sisters like, in the corner, trying to busy themselves, you know, like, getting out plates of food and whatnot and, you see people connecting. And it was the oddest thought, you know, I looked around and I was just like, wow, like,

• 48:51Bozoma Saint John?

  this is a, this is a good, this is a good group of people. You know, this is, this is a great place to be, to have this. And so I was satisfied in that moment. The most terrible thing had happened in my life. But I was looking around and feeling very satisfied with who I had around me. And that, I think, is what I would like for all of us to consider. That even when things are bad and going wrong, you can still be satisfied. You can still feel like, ah, this is, this is it. And it is okay. Yeah, it's okay.

• 49:29Lewis Howes?

  I'm a big fan of the, the title of the book, The Urgent Life. And when I saw this, I was just thinking to myself, yes, right away, because we have like similar, completely different experiences, but similar feelings probably from experiences we've had. So my father went, got in an accident. He had a traumatic brain injury and was in a coma for three months when I was 21. And I remember he, we didn't know if he was gonna live or die, but he eventually woke up after three months. And he was a completely different person. Like he was physically alive, but emotionally and mentally kind of gone. Took him a while to like learn how to talk again. He wasn't able to work anymore.

• 50:14Lewis Howes?

  He had amnesia, so when I'd see him, like, who, what's your name again? It was just a different type of relationship, right? I had to learn to love my father for who he was and start to grieve the man that he once was before, right? And I remember thinking, he was in his early 50s when this happened. He had worked so hard for 30 years to, as a life insurance salesman, where he finally was starting to make money, where he could like travel and have some freedom in his life. And he was starting to feel like he was happy for the first time, fully happy. And then this accident happened. And I remember being really angry at life that my dad didn't get to go live the rest of his life the way he wanted to.

• 50:57Lewis Howes?

  And I felt like I had so much urgency to go pursue everything I wanted. Like from that moment on.

• 51:05Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah.

• 51:05Lewis Howes?

  I was like, I'm not gonna let any fear or insecurity hold me back. It might still be there, but I'm at least gonna take the actions on my goals, my dreams, and live urgently because what if this happens to me? What if I get in a car accident tomorrow?

• 51:18Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah.

• 51:19Lewis Howes?

  And something like that happens to me, I'd be sad that I didn't at least go try. And this, you know, again, completely different experience you had, but it created a feeling of urgency in your life with your ex-husband, right? With your husband?

• 51:33Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah.

• 51:33Lewis Howes?

  And, um, which was almost ten years ago?

• 51:36Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah.

• 51:36Lewis Howes?

  Is that right?

• 51:37Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah, ten years, this December.

• 51:38Lewis Howes?

  And can you explain the story about what had happened with your husband around wanting to get divorced and then

• 51:45Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah.

• 51:46Lewis Howes?

  cancer situation? And how this, how being in a very dark, sad, challenging time, sad time,

• 51:56Lewis Howes?

  wanted you to create urgency at the same time?

• 51:58Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah.

• 51:58Lewis Howes?

  And, and living to your best self

• 52:00Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah.

• 52:01Lewis Howes?

  during sadness? Can you explain a little bit about that?

• 52:03Bozoma Saint John?

  Oh, well, first of all, I, um, I really appreciate what you just said and shared about your dad, you know? Because, um, I feel that for all of us who are living this life on this like hurdling rock that we call home, um, we don't always have to have had the same experience to understand essentially the concept of what I'm talking about.

• 52:25Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 52:26Bozoma Saint John?

  You know, this need for urgency. And it's not necessarily about the rush through life, it's about the intention. You know, knowing like you said, like, you know, I wanna do these things because what if? So then you're intentional about saying, okay, I wanna live a big life, or I wanna go do this thing that I'm dreaming of, or I wanna push a little harder because like what if? Right? And the same thing for me in that like I don't think of the end of life in this morbid way, where I'm just like, oh, today might be my last day. I don't think of it in a morbid way. It's very inspiring to me, actually. It makes me wanna get up and go do the thing. You know, and again, it's not about a rush, it's like I wanna, I wanna make the best use of my time that I have. I don't know how long it is, but I wanna make the best use of it.

• 53:10Bozoma Saint John?

  And I'm also conscious of the fact that I won't do everything.

• 53:15Bozoma Saint John?

  And so that means that I have to be very intentional about the things I choose to do. You know?

• 53:19Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 53:20Bozoma Saint John?

  Because if you walk around thinking like, oh, I have the time, I'll just do everything at some point. Then maybe you don't get to do anything at all. So I'm intentional in knowing that like, oh, okay, I might not get a chance to complete everything. So what's the most important thing? And then I want to do those things. And so at the time in December of 2013, when Peter passed away, we were, we were there. You know, where, you know, the stories are true. You're sitting at the deathbed. And you're talking about all the things you wish you'd done.

• 53:52Lewis Howes?

  Is that what he was saying?

• 53:53Bozoma Saint John?

  Oh, yeah. We talked about so much. The things he wanted to do, his hopes and dreams, what he wants for Leil, our daughter. Like what he wanted for her in the future. You know, all of those things. And I was sitting there listening and thinking and crying and making promises and all of the things. And knowing that I need to change the way I live. You know, he wouldn't, he wouldn't have a chance to do it over. So I need to do it. You know? And it was such a dark time also because we were already going through so much on top of being at death's door. You know, that like our marriage had fallen apart.

• 54:36Bozoma Saint John?

  We had been separated for a couple of years already. Through so much, gosh, additional traumas that happened to us. Misunderstandings, anger. You know, that we couldn't overcome with just love. You know?

• 54:52Lewis Howes?

  Unmet expectations, everything, yeah.

• 54:54Bozoma Saint John?

  Oh, man, you think love conquers everything and no, it does not.

• 54:57Lewis Howes?

  Love is not enough.

• 54:58Bozoma Saint John?

  Love is not enough. You know, love is not enough. And it was all of that turmoil

• 55:06Bozoma Saint John?

  that led us to that moment where I am sitting, holding his hand. At his breath gets shallower and shallower. You know, and, and thinking about all the things I would have done differently if I had a shot to do it again. You know? It's not necessarily that like, oh, I wish life had turned out differently. It's just that I wish I had.

• 55:31Bozoma Saint John?

  Been motivated differently.

• 55:33Lewis Howes?

  What were you motivated by before then?

• 55:35Bozoma Saint John?

  Oh, man. I think at that time, I was motivated by just my own need for my own life. You know, not really focused on anybody else's. And that's, that sounds very selfish, but that's where I was. You know, it was, it was not, I was a mother and a wife. I was so only focused on myself.

• 55:59Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 55:59Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah. I mean, it's like, you know, there was so much that

• 56:05Bozoma Saint John?

  had happened on my path to motherhood. And it's another one of the things that like, you know, now I talk about so openly because we also paint motherhood like it's supposed to be like this great, amazing thing that like, oh, you get pregnant. And then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, all this love shows up from nowhere. And you're just like encapsulated by this person. It's like, no, that, that actually doesn't happen all of the time.

• 56:26Lewis Howes?

  Moments of that might happen.

• 56:28Bozoma Saint John?

  Moments of that might happen.

• 56:29Lewis Howes?

  Majority of the time is probably like cleaning diapers and feeding and pumping and all the things a mom's up to do.

• 56:34Bozoma Saint John?

  And sitting there and being like, oh, hell, I made a mistake. This, this is not what I wanted in my life, you know? And struggling with that. And there were so many times where I thought about that. You know, it's like, wow, like, you know, is, is, is this life what I actually wanted? And so then at that moment in December of 2013, I was like, oh, no, I have to make the life that I want. I have to make it. I have to be an active participant in it.

• 57:02Bozoma Saint John?

  You don't just sit back and let the life happen to you. You have to make it.

• 57:07Lewis Howes?

  Wow. What was the biggest lesson during that time you feel like you learned

• 57:12Lewis Howes?

  about his regrets or about him not doing the things that he wanted to do? What opened up for you during that time? That shifted, if, if anything did shift for you in that?

• 57:24Bozoma Saint John?

  This might sound funny, but I think logic is what surprised me most. The logic of things. The writing down, it's like, almost like the writing down of the plan. You know, things that make sense. Cause you're like, oh, I'm gonna do this, these things. I'm logically gonna take these steps in order to get to that thing, right? And all of his regrets. Everything that he wanted to do that he didn't get a chance to do was based on the logic of the steps to get to that thing that he never got to.

• 57:52Lewis Howes?

  Like just scheduling it in the calendar or like.

• 57:53Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah, yeah, making the to-do list and then, yeah. And then it's like, oh, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do that and then, all based on logic. Life is not made of logic. Life is magic. It's the accidental encounters. It's the things that you can't explain. The feeling that you get in your belly that makes you feel alive and glittery. Or it makes you super sad or you don't wanna get out of bed and the sky just looks gray. And then maybe one thing happens, you're like, oh, okay, I can do it. You know, that's, that's life. And being open to that is actually what gives you the experiences. So therefore, when perhaps you don't accomplish everything that was on your plan, you still feel really happy about the things that you did do, cuz it was also magical.

• 58:35Bozoma Saint John?

  You know, and I'm not talking about like these big firework things. I'm talking about the little stuff too. You know, the new person that you meet on the way to somewhere, you know, or like the like meal that you had that you didn't think was gonna be delicious, that you just really savored.

• 58:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 58:53Bozoma Saint John?

  I was like, it was just magically amazing, you know, and just being appreciative of those moments. So again, it's like, the life is not just about like the big, big, big stuff. It's not the headlines. You know, so to me, it's like, logic is what I then threw out the window.

• 59:09Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 59:10Bozoma Saint John?

  It's like, oh, I'm not gonna live a logical life. I'm gonna live a magical life. The kind that is open to all of the things I can't explain. You know, that like the writing down of the list and the making the steps.

• 59:23Bozoma Saint John?

  You know, and I'm not saying that you walk around just like, huh, na-da-da-da, whatever happens today is what happens, you know, like, look, we all gotta be responsible, dogs, okay. But the truth of the matter is that like, how many of our plans have been stopped because of logic? The things that you said like, ah, well, shoot, I can't do that because of this reason, that reason, and that reason. And sometimes it's other people's logic that actually stops you from doing the things you wanna do. And so I wanna stop that. I've been active in being like, every time I approach a new ambition, or a new idea, or like, oh, I wanna take a trip here, and that logic starts to come in. I'm like, girl, where's that magic? You should, you better just step out and let the magic find you.

• 1:00:02Lewis Howes?

  Ooh, yeah.

• 1:00:03Bozoma Saint John?

  You know, and not stop yourself because the math is mathing.

• 1:00:08Lewis Howes?

  Right. It doesn't make sense logically.

• 1:00:10Bozoma Saint John?

  Nah, it doesn't make sense logically.

• 1:00:12Lewis Howes?

  Allow wonder and synchronicity to happen in your life.

• 1:00:14Bozoma Saint John?

  Yes, to happen. Because I can't tell you how many things have happened in my life that don't make sense.

• 1:00:20Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:00:21Bozoma Saint John?

  The fact that I've had the career I've had doesn't make sense. It's not, it's not logical. There's no stat. Even when you look at things like, oh, you know how many black women CMOs have had jobs, you know, for like Fortune 50 companies? There's no math. There is no, there's no data point.

• 1:00:38Lewis Howes?

  No one.

• 1:00:39Bozoma Saint John?

  Because it doesn't exist.

• 1:00:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:40Bozoma Saint John?

  But I exist. So can you explain that? Can I? So opening yourself up to like these things is what actually creates your destiny to like run the way that it should, you know? I'll give you one, one example. When Peter died in December of 2013, I was at PepsiCo. I'd been there for 10 years.

• 1:01:01Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:01:02Bozoma Saint John?

  Uh, it was a great job. You know, I'd done many iterations of things, and at that time, I was the head of music and entertainment marketing. And so I had been part of the team that did the deal with the NFL for the Super Bowl halftime show. I put Beyonce on that stage. Like, it was like, you know, it was huge. Having a great, exciting career. And then Peter died. And I looked around and I was like, man, like, you know. I think I wanna do more things, you know? Am I gonna sit here for another ten years in New York City like doing this? Or have I had enough of this? And as I formulated that thought, I went to, I think it was NBA All-Star or something like that.

• 1:01:45Bozoma Saint John?

  And I met somebody that I knew very, you know, lightly. Who told me that Jimmy Ivy and Dr. Dre had started their company Beats Music off of the back of Beats by Dre. And that they were looking for head of marketing, would I be interested? And the job was in L.A. My husband had been dead maybe two months. I had a four-year-old child that I was trying to figure out how to raise by myself.

• 1:02:06Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:02:06Bozoma Saint John?

  You know, like, all these things. And so logic would tell you that, no, sit your [BLEEP] down. You know what I mean? Like, situate your life. Figure out how to be a widow and a single mom and the main breadwinner. Like, figure that stuff out. Calm down, get some therapy. You know, just like, sit and be quiet for a second, grieve. Let a year go by, and then figure out what you wanna do. But instead, I was like, hmm, it really doesn't make any sense for me to leave Pepsi, a long-established company, and go to Beats Music where it's barely a company.

• 1:02:43Lewis Howes?

  Some new thing, yeah.

• 1:02:44Bozoma Saint John?

  I didn't know what music streaming was. I had no idea what [BLEEP] that was, and no idea. And, but, I came and came to L.A. and took a meeting with Jimmy, and he was talking about stuff that I had no idea about. And when I resigned from PepsiCo to take the job, everybody told me it was a bad idea. It was gonna tell you there was not one person who supported it. Not even my mother.

• 1:03:08Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:03:09Bozoma Saint John?

  No one. Everybody thought I'd lost my mind. People thought I was acting out of grief. Maybe I was. You know, but the magic was that that opportunity opened up the next ten years of my life.

• 1:03:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:23Bozoma Saint John?

  It was the magic, the spark that I needed. It changed everything for me, Louis, everything.

• 1:03:28Lewis Howes?

  And what would've happened if you would've listened to everyone else's fears and not made the jump?

• 1:03:33Bozoma Saint John?

  Well, that, well, my friend, that's a great unknown. I don't wanna get to the end of my life and ask that question. I don't want to sit there and say like, oh, man, what would I have done if I'd taken that leap? Just tried that other thing. Maybe you fail, but that's okay.

• 1:03:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:48Bozoma Saint John?

  You know, you can pick yourself up again. It's okay.

• 1:03:50Lewis Howes?

  For sure.

• 1:03:50Bozoma Saint John?

  And so sometimes I look around and like, especially when I'm like, you know, talking to a friend who's just like, oh, girl, I can't do that because of the, and it's just like, but why? Like, why, why don't you believe you can do it? You did that thing and that thing and that thing. And again, it doesn't have to be like the world-changing thing that got headlines. But like, your everyday accomplishments and did this thing. Simply went into that workplace that you feel like demeanes you.

• 1:04:18Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:04:19Bozoma Saint John?

  And you still had a smile on your face.

• 1:04:21Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:04:22Bozoma Saint John?

  Like, what an accomplishment that is, you know? Or any, anything that you did.

• 1:04:26Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 1:04:27Bozoma Saint John?

  So it's like, why, why then do you not feel like you have the power to be able to overcome?

• 1:04:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:34Bozoma Saint John?

  The things, even if they're unknown to you?

• 1:04:35Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:04:36Bozoma Saint John?

  Yeah, that's how I feel.

• 1:04:37Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:04:42Lewis Howes?

  What are the three biggest reasons why people fail in a relationship? Why they end up getting divorced, end up getting separated, breaking up? Why do you think the, what are those three things that cause that?

• 1:04:52Stephan Speaks?

  All right, so number one, lack of healing.

• 1:04:55Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:04:55Stephan Speaks?

  Lack of healing because, lack of healing probably leads them to choosing the wrong person to begin with. Which is the, the foundation for disaster because at that point, there's not, everything else I'm about to mention, you can't really work it out with this person because you're just not in alignment with them. It's not a good fit. And so a lot of people are trying to make things work with someone they just, they just can't match up with properly, you know?

• 1:05:20Lewis Howes?

  Is that trauma bonding or what is that? How does that play a part?

• 1:05:23Stephan Speaks?

  Some of it is trauma bonding, some of it is individual, so, so what's happening is this, this phenomena, if you want to call it, that people are choosing individuals that are quote-unquote "good enough to be with", but they don't really make them feel deeply about them. Because if I'm a man or a woman and I've been hurt before, and I've been hurt when I let my heart out completely, I fear being that vulnerable. So now... You don't really ever learn how to not feel deeply about someone if they're just that person. But people learn who I can deal with and not fall deeply for. So, okay, I can be with this person and maintain emotional control.

• 1:06:06Stephan Speaks?

  They don't take me there, so I don't ever feel like I'm too vulnerable in this situation. Do you think a lot of women choose the safe guy as opposed to the right guy? Absolutely, and the safe choice is almost always, if not always, the wrong choice. Oh, man. Why is a safe choice always the wrong choice for a woman? So, think about it. In order for it to be safe, it means you are not deeply invested. You may be invested, it may be deep compared to certain people's perceptions of deep, but it's not as deep as you know you can go. It's not as deep to where you feel like you'll be devastated by it. So, you're starting from a deficit as far as, I'm not fully into this, I'm not fully into this guy.

• 1:06:49Stephan Speaks?

  But again, he may be good enough for me to work with and try to be with. But because you already have a built-in void, so what happens is this. She chooses this man, she's not really into him. Let's say she's not that attracted to him. And it's not that he's not a good-looking guy, she's just not attracted to him like that. Well, because you don't have that attraction, you're not gonna pour into him at the same level that he needs you to. You won't be as intimate with him, you may not talk to him the way that he wants to be talked to. You're not gonna give him the same energy that you would, someone you're actually very much attracted to. Well, that void, initially, he may not catch on to that or let that bother him because

• 1:07:31Stephan Speaks?

  if he is indeed a man who is of a lower position than her or lower quality than her, he may just be happy to have this woman, oh my gosh, I can't believe I have her. So, he's infatuated, he's going in, he's blinded by his desires for her. But at some point, the smoke clears. And then he realizes, wait a minute, okay, I have her, but I'm not being treated the way I want to be treated.

• 1:07:55Lewis Howes?

  I'm getting walked all over.

• 1:07:57Stephan Speaks?

  Exactly, it's all about her. Yes, I don't get the respect that I deserve here. And here's what's crazy. When that woman dates that man who she's not really into like that, and let's just say she dates down. Well, she just raised his stock to every other woman that's watching this.

• 1:08:16Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 1:08:17Stephan Speaks?

  They're looking and they're saying, how did he get her?

• 1:08:20Lewis Howes?

  What does he have? He must have something.

• 1:08:21Stephan Speaks?

  He must have something, big pockets.

• 1:08:23Lewis Howes?

  Big something else.

• 1:08:26Stephan Speaks?

  So, power, something. Now, these women want to find out.

• 1:08:31Lewis Howes?

  Do you think women really think that way when they see a guy who maybe is

• 1:08:34Stephan Speaks?

  Hell, yeah.

• 1:08:35Lewis Howes?

  of, you know, hypothetical less quality or seeming less quality than the woman that they're with? That they start to be more attracted to that guy?

• 1:08:44Stephan Speaks?

  Yes, and even if it's not of a lower quality, if as a man you are seen with an attractive woman, a high-quality woman, a desirable woman, you become more desirable to other women. I've talked to friends where they've even gone to clubs. They'll go there with a woman and they'll get more attention. And when that woman walks away, some of these women will try to slide in and slip in a number here and there.

• 1:09:11Lewis Howes?

  Why do women do this?

• 1:09:14Lewis Howes?

  Why, it seems like women don't have ethics or don't have integrity. As opposed to saying, hey, I appreciate and I'm happy for you too. Why is it that some women

• 1:09:25Stephan Speaks?

  Yes, some women.

• 1:09:26Lewis Howes?

  want to get in there and try to quote-unquote steal the man or influence the man to stray?

• 1:09:33Stephan Speaks?

  Well, so it starts with the fact that women have this perception that quality men are, they're not in abundance out here. Yes, they're very scarce. So, when you come across one, or you think you come across one, a lot of them have the mentality of, oh no, I have to try to get my foot in the door and see if I can get this for myself. If they thought it was abundant out there, then they'd be less pressed to do that.

• 1:09:56Lewis Howes?

  But what happens if a guy, okay, leaves the person he's with for you? Is that woman then going to be confident that he want to do it again?

• 1:10:05Stephan Speaks?

  It depends. I think there are some women who convince themsel- like, there's plenty of women who have taken a man from a woman, or who have accepted that man, leaving one woman for her. And to her, she's good. As long as she's getting what she needs, she's good. But I do think that in the back of their head, once something starts to go wrong, that's when those thoughts start to creep in.

• 1:10:28Lewis Howes?

  I wonder if he's talking to someone else. Why isn't he giving me their attention anymore?

• 1:10:31Stephan Speaks?

  Exactly. And now, and I think it's even more likely that someone who knows about the situation will remind her, "Well, you got him this way, so you might lose him the same." And now the insecurities really start to kick in, and it starts to become a huge problem.

• 1:10:46Lewis Howes?

  You talked about attraction, and I'm sorry to get you off track. But you talked about attraction. What do you think is more important? Sexual attraction or spiritual attraction for a woman?

• 1:10:59Stephan Speaks?

  I'm, I'm gonna say spiritual attraction.

• 1:11:02Lewis Howes?

  More than sexual attraction?

• 1:11:03Stephan Speaks?

  But I'm saying that with hesitancy, alright?

• 1:11:05Lewis Howes?

  You're pausing.

• 1:11:07Stephan Speaks?

  I'm not 100%. The only reason why I'm leaning towards spiritual is because I believe that women value intimacy, non-sexual intimacy, way more than actual, just raw sex. Okay? So if you had door number one, hugs, kisses, caresses, you know, being emotionally available, door number two, just straight sex. Women are choosing, most women are choosing door number one. Most men are choosing door number two. And so because of that value for the deeper levels of intimacy, I feel like spiritual attraction kind of fortifies that. Whereas sexual attraction may not get them those things. So that's why I would pick spiritual attraction.

• 1:11:52Lewis Howes?

  What would you say for any guy listening or watching? If they wanted to attract the woman of their dreams, or essentially any woman that they really desired? If they wanted to attract that, who would they need to become in order to set themselves up to attract an incredible, lifelong, loving partner? Who gave them a fulfilling, joyful life?

• 1:12:20Stephan Speaks?

  I would say they would have to become their most confident masculine self. Whatever that looks like, it's gonna look different for every guy. But at the foundation of it, there must be confidence in who he is. And he must exude that masculine energy. Not saying there aren't men who can't get them a loving partner, not being the most masculine dude. But you have a better chance at achieving it when you can walk in your masculine energy. That's the power of the man.

• 1:12:49Lewis Howes?

  What if there's a man who's extremely masculine but lacks confidence? What type of partner does he attract typically?

• 1:12:57Stephan Speaks?

  Well, I think lacking confidence, it undermines the masculine energy. It's hard to be that masculine presence if you are lacking in self-esteem, lacking in self-respect. The things you're gonna allow a woman to get away with is gonna start to lose, cause her to lose attraction for you. So it's almost like if you become her yes man. A lot of women don't want a yes man. Most women don't want a yes man. It might sound good to some initially, but over time, she gets tired of the fact that you can't think for yourself, that you aren't giving your own perspective, that you aren't confident enough to stand in your own vision and your plan. So that immediately takes you out of your masculine energy. Because now you're trying to become so accommodating to the point that you've lost yourself in that process.

• 1:13:42Stephan Speaks?

  And that doesn't work well in the long term. I mean, think, whenever you hear stories of nice guys being run over and getting played, it usually involves this man who is just trying to do everything the woman wants. And just putting all his desires aside to make her happy. That doesn't work. Not like that it doesn't.

• 1:14:03Lewis Howes?

  That's kinda like the safe man, right?

• 1:14:04Stephan Speaks?

  Yes.

• 1:14:05Lewis Howes?

  So the safe man is not always the right man, is what I think I heard you say, right?

• 1:14:10Stephan Speaks?

  Yeah, it's almost always.

• 1:14:12Lewis Howes?

  But doesn't a woman want to feel safe in an environment with their man?

• 1:14:16Stephan Speaks?

  Yes, but the safety... So the safety that's being achieved by picking the safe choice is I don't have to be too vulnerable in this relationship. So I'm able to guard myself from devastating hurt and disappointment that I've probably experienced at least once before, at least at a level that I felt like I don't ever want to go there again. That's very different than the man who she is completely invested in, completely in love with, and he understands the need to provide safety and security for her. The need to make the situation or the relationship more stable for her, where she can rest in her feminine energy, so to speak, while she's with him. That's two different types of safety.

• 1:15:00Lewis Howes?

  So it's like, okay, if you choose a safe man, but essentially it sounds like that's a space where you don't have to fully open up and be vulnerable. It's a space where you probably know you're in control. Where you're probably have more value to offer, or this person is desiring you way more than you desire them.

• 1:15:19Stephan Speaks?

  And that's the big one. It's a situation where she feels like he wants me, or he loves me more than I do him. And that's where they feel like it is safe, but again, it doesn't work in the long run. Never. Yeah, I want to say never. I should never say never, but I'm just gonna use that word right now.

• 1:15:37Lewis Howes?

  Because if someone, if you are in a relationship like that, and maybe you're not even conscious that you're doing it in the beginning, but you realize a year, two years in, okay, you know, the person I've chosen really doesn't step into his confidence or his masculine energy. He'll do anything I want him to do at all times. He stops his dreams from my dreams, whatever it is. What is typically, the women you've worked with, how do they, what do they say about that? What do they feel about that? And what is their struggle? Is it they want to leave? Is it they just feel bad? They don't feel connection anymore? What is it that they feel?

• 1:16:13Stephan Speaks?

  Well, so it's a tricky place because at that point, it's hard for them to fully express what's going on. Like, one of the things I tell women is that one of the worst positions to be in is with a man you're not truly in love, well, with a good man, you're not truly in love with.

• 1:16:28Lewis Howes?

  Oh, why is that the worst position?

• 1:16:30Stephan Speaks?

  Because at that point, if she's feeling empty, she's feeling bored, she's feeling unsatisfied. Who can she run to and say this to that won't say, but wait a minute, you have a great man. You can't do that. Oh, just work. Like, no one's gonna say, oh yeah, you know what? I get it. Just walk away. Now, I won't say no one, but most people aren't going to allow that to be a good enough reason for her to walk away. So she knows she's gonna get pushed back from people, but not just pushed back from people, from her own self. It's like, okay, wait a minute. Do I leave this great guy who loves me so much, which is so safe here? Even though I'm not really that happy, I'm not fulfilled, or maybe I'm not that attracted to him?

• 1:17:13Stephan Speaks?

  That's a tough position to be in because it's like, it would be so much easier if he cheated on her. It'd be so much easier if he was abusive or something. Then she could easily validate, oh, okay, I gotta go. And that's why some women in that situation, what they do is try to create turmoil. Try to find, yes. They're trying to find something to give them the exit to say, okay, I don't have to be here anymore. Or to make that man want to leave them. And in fairness, this happens on both sides. But I've literally talked to clients who, the only, they cheated, hoping it would make their partner leave them.

• 1:17:51Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:17:52Stephan Speaks?

  Because what was happening was, in this instance, she was trying to tell the guy over and over, I don't wanna be here. But again, he's this good guy, I love you, I don't wanna lose you.

• 1:18:02Lewis Howes?

  I'll do whatever you need, I'll change.

• 1:18:04Stephan Speaks?

  And out of guilt and sympathy, she stays with him. But she's so not happy. So now she's thinking, okay, he won't leave me even when I tell him, I don't wanna do this anymore. Even when I tell him this is not working. So what can I do? And some will actually cheat on purpose, let the man find out, hoping he will finally let go. And in some cases, he still doesn't let go. He gets cheated on, and he still wants to work it out with her. And she feels trapped. And so it just continues like, it's just a never-ending cycle until either one of them finally gets tired of it. Or, I don't know, it's crazy.

• 1:18:43Lewis Howes?

  There's a lot of stress.

• 1:18:44Stephan Speaks?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:45Lewis Howes?

  So what I heard you say, for a man to attract the, you know... A joyful, loving partner that they really desire and have someone that they really are inspired by for, you know, a long term. I'm hearing you say that that man needs to step into their self-esteem, their confidence and their masculinity.

• 1:19:06Stephan Speaks?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:06Lewis Howes?

  They gotta step into that leadership masculinity quality, right?

• 1:19:09Stephan Speaks?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:09Lewis Howes?

  That essence. If a woman really wants to attract the right, healthy man, someone that is

• 1:19:17Lewis Howes?

  safe in terms of they can trust, but um where they have to fully, they get to feel a little vulnerable to really dive in and they really care about this man in a big way. What does a woman need to do in order to attract that ideal partner for themselves?

• 1:19:34Stephan Speaks?

  And it's the same answer for the women in reverse. It's walking in their true feminine confident self, whoever they really are, but being that best version of themselves. And, and to what you were saying, it can't be find a man who you can be feminine with. It has to be be your feminine self first and you'll be able to attract the man that you can continue to be feminine with. Or that will honor, respect and value your feminine energy and protect your feminine energy. That's what you want, but what's happening to so many women is they become detached from their femininity. Or they're viewing it in a negative way. They're viewing it as weakness, as when I'm feminine, I get played, I get taken advantage of.

• 1:20:19Stephan Speaks?

  And so the mindset is if I find the right man, I can be that. So you'll hear a lot of women say, well, I am feminine in a relationship. The problem is he can't see that far in to know that he wants to get in a relationship with you.

• 1:20:37Lewis Howes?

  I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy. And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneyleasebook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment, moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to the next episode on the School of Greatness.

• 1:21:18Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

• 1:22:02Lewis Howes?

  And now it's time to go out there and do something great.