Tech Leaders on Bitcoin, AI, and the New Global Power Shift w/ Salim Ismail & Dave Blundin | EP #172

In this episode, Salim, Dave, and Peter discuss news coming from Apple, Grok, OpenAI, and more. Recorded on May 19, 2025 Views are my own thoughts; not Financial, Medical, or Legal Advice. ​Dave Blundin is a distinguished serial entrepreneur and has co-founded 23 companies, five of which have exceeded $100 million in revenue. He is currently an instructor at MIT and is the Managing Partner of Link-XPV. Salim Ismail is a serial entrepreneur and technology strategist well known for his expertise in Exponential organizations. He is the Founding Executive Director of Singularity University and the founder and chairman of ExO Works and OpenExO. Learn about Dave’s fund: https://www.linkventures.com/xpv-fund Work With Salim to build your ExO: https://openexo.com/10x-shift?video=E0w_6ikagUk Twitter: https://twitter.com/salimismail Learn more about Abundance360: https://bit.ly/ABUNDANCE360 Learn more about Exponential Mastery: https://bit.ly/exponentialmastery -- I only endorse products and services I personally use. To see what they are, please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: Get started with Fountain Life and become the CEO of your health: https://fountainlife.com/peter/ AI-powered precision diagnosis you NEED for a healthy gut: https://www.viome.com/peter Get 15% off OneSkin with the code PETER at https://www.oneskin.co/ #oneskinpod -- I send weekly emails with the latest insights and trends on today’s and tomorrow’s exponential technologies. Stay ahead of the curve, and sign up now: Tech Blog -- Connect With Peter: Twitter Instagram Youtube Moonshots Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Peter Diamandis?

  The experts, you speak to everybody in the street, they're expecting that we're about to see a bull run.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  We've been waiting for a long time for Bitcoin to peel off the tracking of the Dow and the financial markets. And I think this is finally the breaking point.

• 0:15Peter Diamandis?

  Today, Amazon announced we are partnering with Humane, Saudi Arabia's newly created AI innovation company. Nvidia is selling 18,000 of its top GB 300 Blackwell AI chips to Saudi Arabia.

• 0:30Speaker 02

  The freedom to just sit back and act, you know, having infinite or near infinite capital and instant decision making is, it's a pretty powerful thing.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  I think that the macro level, the combination of US innovation and capital coming from the Middle East makes it kind of unbeatable what the future holds.

• 0:45Speaker 02

  The safest bet by far is to run like hell toward your targets. You'll be very glad you didn't waste a millisecond between now and 2030.

• 0:53Speaker 03

  Now that's a moonshot, ladies and gentlemen.

• 0:57Peter Diamandis?

  Everybody, welcome to Moonshots. And a WTF just happened in tech episode with my moonshot mates, Salim Ismail, the CEO of OpenEXO, and my longtime best friend and fraternity brother, the head of Link XPV, Dave Blundin, two of the most extraordinary individuals. And we're here to deliver you the real news that happened this past week, that really the only news that matters in technology that's changing our lives. You give us a couple of hours, we'll tell you what just transformed. Salim, Dave, welcome to Moonshots.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  Good to be here.

• 1:37Speaker 02

  Good to be here. Thanks, Peter.

• 1:38Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, so, you know, Salim, every episode, it's like, where's Waldo? You know, you are a traveling probability function around the planet. So where have you just come back from?

• 1:48Speaker 01

  I just came back from Palermo. Uh, with a canceled flight in Barcelona, a day and a half to get back. So, but I, um, but it was nice to be back and nice to be there.

• 1:59Peter Diamandis?

  You know, there's this thing called Zoom where you can actually go there digitally, dematerialize yourself.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  No, you know, this is an important point. We thought when video conferences came out in the nineties, it would kill the conference business. Right? Cause you could get all the content online. And as we've evolved digitally, we go to more conferences than ever because we value that human presence. And I, you and I both would kill not have to travel ridiculous distances to speak to groups, but we end up having to do more and more of it.

• 2:26Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  So, I don't know. I, I feel like this podcast has a lot more reach than whatever you're doing on those trips, but.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it has way more reach, but the problem is that the demand is still like the people kind of go.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:39Speaker 02

  Well, they want you. I know that.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  I, I, I'm a crazier one. I did this TEDx talk a few years ago called fixing civilization. And I got called by a company and said, we'd like you to come and do that talk, exactly the same talk. I said, well, why don't you just play the YouTube video? They're like, uh, no, we really want you. I get there and get to the venue and it's literally a TV studio with cameras. They're broadcasting to their offices. They literally could have just played the TV. And I was like, this is insane. So that part I don't understand, but okay, we'll go with that.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  Cause it can't be understood. Well, Peter, you shouldn't bug Salim too much. I saw you in New York this week. You're back in LA now. You're going to San Fran and then off to Hong Kong. So.

• 3:17Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. You know, I was supposed to be going to Florida, uh, tomorrow and the meeting got canceled and I was like, yay, I'm so happy.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Pot calling the kettle black.

• 3:27Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. Well.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. By the way, congratulations on, uh, on New York on Monday. Yeah. Another very successful X Prize wedge. Uh, but, but that was just epic. I mean, the way, the way you inspire that crowd is just, uh, that's really something to see.

• 3:41Peter Diamandis?

  Thank you. We'll, we'll talk about that. We just, uh, gave out 12 million of the 111 million in our health span prize. Helping people live an extra 20 healthy years. Salim, you know, it's your birthday coming up this weekend. I think, isn't that true?

• 3:56Speaker 01

  I turn 60 in 48 hours.

• 3:59Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing. Amazing. 60 down, you know, 180 to go.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  180 to go.

• 4:04Peter Diamandis?

  Exactly.

• 4:06Peter Diamandis?

  All right, well, let's get into this week. A lot of news, a lot happening in the exponential world and the moonshot world. And my moonshot mates are here to help me tell the story. Let's begin, let's start with Bitcoin. A lot of motion and for those of us who are huge Bitcoin believers, I think all three of us, we're back into the 100K plus zone. So, welcome back, everybody. And I think we're poised for new heights. This is interesting. So, Mike Saylor, who I look forward to having back on the podcast soon, has doubled his Bitcoin purchasing plan. Dave, Salim, you want to lay this out for the team?

• 4:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, you know, nothing slows down Mike. He's going to stay aggressive, doubling down. 2121 is 21 billion of equity, 21 billion of debt. That's a lot. And 4242, I think, Salim, you calculated the fraction of all Bitcoin that that implies. It's a pretty material fraction that he would need to buy.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  It's a big number and it's, and he's making a massive bet and the bet seems to be paying off. If you're a macro believer in the future of Bitcoin, then the way he's engineering this is about as amazing as you could imagine.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, Peter, you mentioned last time that there's a pretty big ARB spread between the price of Bitcoin and the price of MicroStrategy stock, a little less than 2X difference there. On the other hand, MicroStrategy is levered 2 to 1, you know, because of the debt component. So, if you're a believer, it's actually a levered way to invest, which I think is why it's attracting a lot of, a lot of people. You know, rather, why don't I just go buy a Bitcoin? Well, if you buy a MicroStrategy share, you're levered on the upside. But the people buying the debt are predominantly hedge funds that are buying the debt and then shorting the stock concurrently. So, they're making money either way and that's why there's zero interest on the debt. But the one thing I love about what Mike's done

• 5:58Speaker 02

  in 2121, also 4242, is he's gotten rid of all the interest payments. So, there's no real existential threat to MicroStrategy anymore. You know, when he borrowed the money originally, it was financing the debt from the cash flow of their core software company. Which had scale limits because he can only pay so much interest. Now, on his new design, it's infinitely scalable because there's no interest payments. So it's pretty brilliant.

• 6:22Peter Diamandis?

  And Mike's making a call to the world, to all corporations, both private and public, to go on the Bitcoin standard. And of course, the more companies he gets to buy Bitcoin, you know, the shorter the supply of Bitcoin, the higher the price goes, the more his plan works. I mean, you know, this plan of 42 billion of stock sale and 42 billion of debt, so what is that, $84 billion worth of Bitcoin being purchased? That's massive. And of course, he's pushing as well the sovereign Bitcoin reserves. All of this, you know, there's only 21 million Bitcoin. And we discussed this in the last episode or a couple of episodes ago, that if all

• 7:06Peter Diamandis?

  the millionaires in the world wanted to buy some Bitcoin, it's, they get access to like a fraction of a Bitcoin. You know, it's not enough to go around and the float is relatively low.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, when we were talking to Mike in Miami a couple of months ago, Peter, the one thing that he opened my eyes to is, you know, we're talking about sovereign wealth funds and sovereign, you know, treasuries putting a fraction of their money into Bitcoin. When you looked at the pie chart, you know, as a fraction of global wealth, it's this tiny, tiny, tiny little slice, all Bitcoin combined.

• 7:43Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  And so he doesn't need, you know, every country in the world to move its treasury to Bitcoin. He needs like 1% of the countries in the world to move 0.1% of their treasuries. And that would absorb all the Bitcoin in the world. So it's actually...

• 7:56Peter Diamandis?

  And drive it to, you know, he's predicting prices, you know, way north of a million, north of 10 million per Bitcoin.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  The number we ran was if 1% of the Fortune 1000 put 1% of their treasury in Bitcoin, that would drive it to a million dollars of Bitcoin.

• 8:13Peter Diamandis?

  Which seems more and more likely. You know, it's so funny, I've been buying Bitcoin along the way. And every time I sweep some capital in from selling a stock or some deal I did, I'm like, okay, I'm putting into Bitcoin. I am putting a certain percentage in MicroStrategy as well. This is not investment advice, it's just what I'm doing. And... You know, one of my financial team members said, hey, should we wait for it to dip? And I said, you can't do that. You can't play that game. You have to just buy and hold. And if it's 103,000 or 97,000 or goes up to 120,000, just buy it and hold it. You can't try and guess the market because what you see over and over again is that

• 8:55Peter Diamandis?

  the Bitcoin price will jump like it did last week, seven, eight, $10,000 over the course of 24 hours, and then it's flat for a long time. If you miss those trading days by having selling in and out, then you've lost all the upside potential.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  I think there's something like 10 days in the year that Bitcoin does 70% of its upside.

• 9:16Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, crazy.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  So if you miss those 10 days, of course, which 10 days is the challenge?

• 9:22Peter Diamandis?

  Here's more news. This is from Brian Armstrong. Crypto is about to be in everyone's 401k. My goal is that five to 10 years getting into Coin50 index will feel as good as this. This is a quote from Brian Armstrong, the CEO of Coinbase, who will also be on this podcast soon enough. Coinbase joined the S and P 500 days after Bitcoin soared past $100,000. Salim, what are your thoughts here?

• 9:51Speaker 01

  Finally getting legitimacy. I don't think there's any turning back. I think the macro world and the money world will be forced to kind of start to address this. I was talking to one of the top wealth management folks in a particular country, and they won't let their advisors recommend Bitcoin.

• 10:10Peter Diamandis?

  It's crazy.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  And the advisor going nuts because their client's coming to them going, I want to buy Bitcoin. And the company won't let them because there was legal liability for them or legal risk by determined by their risk folks. So there's like a complete cluster going on around what they're allowed to do. That pressure will slowly ease as we get more legitimacy into the space. And I think this is great, great news overall.

• 10:35Peter Diamandis?

  And in the meantime, people buy microstrategies or other companies that are following suit.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, next time we circle up on Bitcoin, I'd love to talk more about the agent-to-agent AI economy.

• 10:48Peter Diamandis?

  Oh, my God.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  And micropayments, because I think, you know, putting Bitcoin into 401k, I've been working on that, thinking about that for years. It's clearly getting legitimacy now, but the new thing is the A to A payments and how that whole economy is going to evolve. And that's clearly going to require digital currency. You're not going to transact dollars.

• 11:08Peter Diamandis?

  I think most of you know that the news media is delivering negative news to us all the time because we pay 10 times more attention to negative news than positive news. For me, the only news worthwhile that's true and impacting humanity is the news of science and technology. And that's what I pay attention to. And every week I put out two blogs, one on AI and exponential tech and one on longevity. If this is of interest to you, and it's available totally for free, please join me. Subscribe at diamandus.com/subscribe. That's diamandus.com/subscribe. All right, let's go back to the episode. David Bailey and BTC native holding company Nakamoto merged into kindly MD to establish a BTC treasury. Saleem?

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Well, this just speaks to the fact that, you know, Michael Saylor's been operating on a lone wolf basis. And now other people are going, wait a minute, why is he getting all the upside and good fun here? He's getting a huge chunk of the pie. We want in on this. And so I think there'll be, start to see more and more of this. But I think we'll see a flood of this type of announcement in the next six months as people go, we got to get into this.

• 12:17Peter Diamandis?

  David, are you seeing this as well?

• 12:19Speaker 01

  It'll be a self fulfilling strategy.

• 12:20Peter Diamandis?

  It is.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Because then it drives the price upward all the while.

• 12:24Peter Diamandis?

  David, are you seeing this in any of your companies?

• 12:27Speaker 02

  I told you, I green lighted them all to do it. And I'm just waiting. The bellwether for me is when they call back and say, hey, Dave, is it still okay if we? If we put part of our treasure into Bitcoin, I'm just waiting for that call. I'll let you know the minute it happens.

• 12:41Peter Diamandis?

  Please do, because that is an inflection point that we're about to see a price spike. I mean, when my mom says, you know, should I buy buying Bitcoin? But by the way, then her financial advisor says you can't do it here. Then I say, hey, buy Microstrategies instead.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 12:56Peter Diamandis?

  It's crazy. All right, let's continue on here. This is another piece of that puzzle. This next slide here, corporate Bitcoin purchases now outweigh the supply of new Bitcoin by 3.3 in 2025. So, I mean, this is what you are speaking to, yeah?

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's going to start to become mandatory for corporate treasuries. I look forward to the day that somebody will be deemed unworthy of that role if they don't put Bitcoin in the treasury.

• 13:24Peter Diamandis?

  Ah, fascinating. Yeah, I mean, this is basically saying, you know, we're mining Bitcoin at a certain rate, and the availability of that new Bitcoin, plus what's available for sale, is being outstripped by demand, and that will drive the price through the roof, for sure.

• 13:45Speaker 02

  It's really interesting to think about the original protocol document. I don't know if you ever read it, but the original protocol document.

• 13:50Peter Diamandis?

  Years ago.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it, you know, it expands the supply pretty aggressively for a period of time, and then it's capped, and then, you know, it just trickles out with mining after that. And the amount of foresight in that design is just unbelievable. Everyone, it should be mandatory school to read that document.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  It really should be. This is one of the most prescient documents, and you know, there've been, we've talked about this before, there've been many attempts at creating a viable digital currency or store of value over the decades. And so lots of people waited for two, three years to see if Bitcoin would actually bite, because all the others kind of fell apart after a year or two years. And the damn thing held, they gamified it so perfectly, it's unbelievable.

• 14:30Peter Diamandis?

  You know, here's a homework assignment for those listening who want to play in this. Go and download the original Bitcoin white paper, stick it into Google's Notebook LM, and just listen to a podcast about it, or ask for, you know, an understandable two or three page summary. It is a beautiful work, and the most extraordinary thing about it is it's working, it's never been hacked, and it has become the dominant, you know, store of value, so.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  The part that I find people struggle with the most is there's no central authority or point of control. It's a completely decentralized peer-to-peer participatory network. And that I find people just cannot get their heads around. It's amazing.

• 15:18Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. All right. Here's just a chart to back it all up. You know, the experts, you speak to everybody in the street, they're expecting that we're about to see a bull run. BTC is signaling a comeback, reclaiming key one-year MVRV momentum average. You know, I'm not someone who, you know, looks at the charts and studies the charts myself, but this seems to be self-evident.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  I think what's noteworthy here is we've been waiting for a long time for Bitcoin to peel off the tracking of the Dow and the financial markets. And I think this is finally the breaking point. And I hope this continues. And if it does, we're going to see a massive bull run if this is the point.

• 16:03Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. From your mouth to the universe's digital ears. Let's jump into our favorite subject here at Moonshot's AI. This is a huge week for AI. We're seeing a global, you know, power.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  Unlike last week.

• 16:20Peter Diamandis?

  Well, no.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  Which was the hugest weekend. No, no, the point being that every week is like blowing apart the previous week. It's unreal.

• 16:27Peter Diamandis?

  This is a global power grab in the AI universe, and it was centered not in Washington DC, not in Silicon Valley. This week, we were in Riyadh, where the tech CEOs from the US joined President Trump to go and do a deep dive into a Saudi investment forum.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, this isn't even the full list. You have Jenny Johnson, who runs Franklin Templeton is there, Larry Fink, who runs BlackRock is there. I mean, this is ridiculous. And I knew Dubai has historically attracted that crowd, you know, recently. Now Riyadh is catching up. Unbelievable amount of activity and investment. But boy, did they get the best of the best worldwide to show up this week.

• 17:11Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing. You know, I'm on the board of the Future Investment Initiative, FII.

• 17:18Peter Diamandis?

  Which is under, you know, under PIF, under the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia. And, and I sort of, sort of help address the AI agenda at FII every year in Saudi, in October, in Riyadh. And Saudi Arabia wants to be number two to the US in the AI world. And they're prepared to bring a huge amount of capital and relationships to the table. So this was a massive success for the ministers and for the ruler of Saudi. Let's dive in a little bit further. This is a tweet from Andy Jassy, Amazon CEO. Today,

• 18:03Peter Diamandis?

  Amazon announced, "We are partnering with Humane, Saudi Arabia's newly created AI innovation company, to collectively invest $5 billion and to build a groundbreaking AI zone in the Kingdom." Let's pair that with the next article here, which is, "Nvidia is selling 18,000 of its top GB300 Blackwell AI chips to Saudi Arabia." It's a $10 billion commitment by Jensen. Humane is owned by Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund, working to develop AI models and data center infrastructure. This is a huge deal. Dave, how do you think about this?

• 18:44Speaker 02

  Well, for starters, there's some great video coming out of the conference out there. A lot of it is public. So if you have a free minute after this podcast, you might want to look at David Sacks meeting with His Excellency Abdullah Al-Swah in particular.

• 18:57Peter Diamandis?

  And we'll show a clip on that. We'll show a clip on that next.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  Oh, great. Great. Yeah. Because they're basically taking a lot of the handcuffs off the, the chip exports within this region as part of this conference. And this is, this is it right here. That was kind of inevitable. But also, you know, Saudi's got big investments in core weave and cerebrus. So they're working on their own infrastructure as well. Or those are unrestricted. It's not really their own infrastructure, but unrestricted infrastructure. So this isn't the only thing going on. But it's very consistent with a couple of things. The Liquid AI team was telling us that Arabic in particular has a thousand dialects. And none of the US models, foundation models are addressing that at all.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  So they really want to be able to control the regionalization of the technology. And also the cultural values. We've been talking about this a lot. You know, having a culturally matching version of these AIs. Because what's going to happen next is anyone under the age of, say, 20 is going to spend a lot of time talking to their AI.

• 20:06Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  And so then a lot of what their worldview is comes back from whatever the AI is telling them. And very, very important, you know, for various regions around the country to have some say in what it says and how it interacts with their next generation of kids.

• 20:24Peter Diamandis?

  I mean, I think one of the most relevant things here is this places Saudi Arabia, you know, strictly in the US court as opposed to China. The US, you know, they've teamed fully with US, US infrastructure, US partnerships, US investments, making a massive commitment into the US AI infrastructure. So it's huge. And Nvidia agreeing to give them 18,000 of its top Blackwell chips is massive. I mean, people, countries around the world are frothing to get access to that. So interestingly enough, right, we have both Saudi Arabia and the UAE making massive financial commitments to this.

• 21:05Peter Diamandis?

  And what we saw about a decade ago was these two nations making massive commitments to new energy and environmental investments. And it's the advantage of being a nation, you know, ruled by a ruler who can say, okay, yea verily, we're going there and not having to deal with a, you know, a full Congress and Senate and democracy. But their ability to pivot so rapidly and say, listen, the most important thing in the world is AI and we're committing, you know, a trillion dollars and it will be multiple trillions into AI.

• 21:45Peter Diamandis?

  Is a massive advantage for them. Salim, you've had these conversations.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  It is incredibly impressive to watch. And when you get a, you know, we often talk about governance governance models, and it's always clear that the best model is a benevolent dictator.

• 22:01Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 22:02Speaker 01

  And the problem is, in many cases, a dictator doesn't stay benevolent. But in these cases, it actually, they actually seem to be very much so. I've spent more time in the UAE, and the stories you hear about His Highness bin Zayed is are unbelievable in terms of the character of the man. And the sheer integrity that is coming through, and then that cascades down all the way very quickly. So I'm, it's super impressive to watch. And the fact that they're making these investments. I think at the macro level, the combination of US innovation and capital coming from the Middle East makes it kind of unbeatable what the future holds.

• 22:39Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, for sure. Let's take the next, let's go to the next slide here. And this is the Minister Abdullah Swaha is having a conversation with with David Sacks. I'm going to play this video in a moment. Abdullah Swaha is the minister covering space and com and technology. He is a beautiful man. I call him a friend. I knew him back when he was at Cisco, before the ruler of

• 23:11Peter Diamandis?

  the kingdom tapped on him to come back and join as a minister. And in fact, Dave, you and I hosted him in Venice in a makeshift Majlis, what about a year ago?

• 23:22Speaker 02

  Venice, Venice, California, by the way.

• 23:25Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, Venice, California. No, it was great. He's a brilliant guy. And he's close to Elon, close to all the tech CEOs. All right, let's play this interview between David Sacks and Minister Abdullah Swaha.

• 23:41Speaker 03

  Technologies have helped us deliver a passport within five minutes. You said to me, we're going to see soon see that in other economies as well. How you could renew your license, how you could do all of your different digital services in a cashless society as well from the digital age and in the intelligent age. We've showed you firsthand how we're creating nano-robots with CRISPR technology, leveraging generative AI to tackle sickle cell disease, bad cholesterol, have targeted gene therapy, which is remarkable, reducing the cost to treat a patient from 2.2 million to just sub hundred thousand dollars. Think about the remarkable work that we're doing in agentic AI, helping Aramco energize

• 24:25Speaker 03

  the world, which we need to fuel the US ambition and Saudi's ambition in AI training and inference, because we're going to converge not only to the price point of electronics, but it's really the price points of electrons.

• 24:41Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing. I mean, we're seeing, you know, huge investments by the government across all exponential technology areas. Now, you know, I think what's incredible is by virtue of their size and their technology base, they're outstripping other nations around the world. They don't come close to what we're doing in the United States, but they're focusing their capital and they're driving breakthroughs.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  And they're moving quickly. I think in that video clip, if you have time to watch the full video, David Sacks has some brilliant things to say as always. But you can sense, you know, they have complete free, they have tons of capital and complete freedom to act quickly in this AI environment. And you can feel that vibe just in that video click, clip. And David Sacks, he is within the constraints of, you know, congressional votes and wearing his suit and tie and his dress shoe. You can just feel the difference in ability to be nimble. And I remember when I was a kid growing up, you know, mostly in Iran as a young child, and my mom would always tell us like US foreign policy is going to be a disaster in this country. She learned the language, you know, she spoke Farsi. She really got integrated into the culture, which very few Americans in the country

• 25:53Speaker 02

  did at the time. And she said the problem fundamentally is that that Americans, you know, every four years, we completely change our mind on what we're trying to achieve in this country. And there's no consistency whatsoever over time. And boy, did she turn out to be right about that. So you're right, Salim, and this kind of AI timeframe is so short. And there's so much that needs to be done so quickly. The freedom to just sit back and act, you know, having infinite or near infinite capital and instant decision making is it's a pretty powerful thing.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  You know, every during the COVID, when we had to make decisions very quickly, every major democracy failed in navigating COVID well. Actually, every major country failed. All the small countries did very well. So I think there's a hint there as to the future of governance as you go to a micro level.

• 26:40Peter Diamandis?

  Everybody, I hope you're enjoying this episode. You know, earlier this year, I was joined on stage at the 2025 Abundance Summit by a rock star group of entrepreneurs, CEOs, investors focused on the vision and future for AGI, humanoid robotics, longevity, blockchain, basically the next trillion dollar opportunities. If you weren't at the Abundance Summit, it's not too late. You can watch the entire Abundance Summit online by going to exponentialmastery.com. That's exponentialmastery.com. You know, Dave, you said something that's really important a second ago, so I want to point it out. Speed here, we're going to see the AI, I don't call it AI wars, AI dominance play out over the next

• 27:24Peter Diamandis?

  two to three years, two to four years. At which point it's, I don't say it's game over, but who's on top and who's second and third is unlikely to change after that. So what we're seeing is really a jockeying for position between major nations, in particular China, the Emirates, Saudi. You know, Qatar will play in there as well. I don't think Russia is going to be relevant unless they team up with China in some fashion. And then it's whoever is leading the game is going to make the rules. I mean, do you agree with that?

• 28:00Speaker 01

  Can I offer, can I offer a counterpoint? If I give the counterpoint side, the speed of democratization is such that even if one domain, one kind of pairing of partners goes ahead of the other, that it'll level off very quickly after that. And we've seen that over the last couple of years. You've OpenAI, and then you've got Gemini, and then you've got DeepSeek, and that gets overtaken. I think it's going to democratize much faster than the past, and therefore you won't see one taking off in a winner-take-all type of opera. That's my view.

• 28:35Peter Diamandis?

  I think it's a safer view if that's the case, but I think what we're, and we'll have a conversation on this in a few minutes, where AI is beginning to self-code, and we have the potential for a runaway digital superintelligence race with whoever's on top. Dave, how do you think about that?

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Well, Peter, your first statement was so right, and you can't overstate the winner-take-all effects that are going on. There isn't currently a force to democratize any of this, and it would take an amazingly, a huge amount of inertia very quickly to democratize all of this. The forces of concentration of everything are just unbelievable, because of that self-improvement effect that Peter just mentioned. And so, you know, I'm telling everybody around here, everyone around MIT, everyone around Harvard, everyone around my kids, like you have a window of opportunity that's exactly the timeline Peter laid out of about four years to set the course of your entire life. Nobody knows what's going to happen after that, but

• 29:34Speaker 02

  the forces of concentration are much stronger than the forces of distribution. So the safest bet by far is to run like hell toward your targets, and in the event that something happens that spreads out all the value, you're fine. But in the other event where it's all concentrated, you'll be very glad you didn't waste a millisecond between now and 2030.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  I think there's two different, I think there's two different things here, right? One is exponential opportunities if you move fast, which I 100% agree with. Okay? But the other part of winner-take-all, I will disagree, and let's see who's right over the next little while.

• 30:13Peter Diamandis?

  Well, we will see. It's gonna play out over the next two to four years. I mean, why do you think the entire AI leadership of our nation and the financial leadership of our nation showed up in Saudi Arabia for a week? Everybody, not just a few people. There was a significant enough meeting and a significant enough purpose of that meeting to say you had to be there. And I think this was, I think, will draw a line from last week to consequences that will be dominant for decades.

• 30:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I cannot tell you how unnatural an act it is for a Saudi Arabian to wake up one morning and invest in Core Weaver cerebros. Like, that doesn't just happen. I was like, what, because we have a stand nearby? No, no, no. There's clearly like a really intentional and intelligent awareness of where the bottlenecks are. And those investments are turning out to be brilliant, by the way. But like, chip design Saudi, what's the connection there? Well, the connection there is that's the bottleneck to self-improving AI. We can go on about this.

• 31:24Peter Diamandis?

  You know, when I was meeting with Minister Abdullah Suha, you know, he said something which really stuck with me. He says, every week I have a meeting with MBS to talk about AI. It is his number one item on his agenda, and it should be. I mean, it drives me nuts that it's not the number one item on every senator and congressman's agenda here and how it impacts health and how it picks. Education, it's so transformative. All right, let's go to this news clip from Mark Andreessen on Google and OpenAI visions. Let's take a listen to Mark.

• 32:02Speaker 04

  Kind of a little company, kind of big company thing. And, you know, I think that's repeating itself. And, you know, I think one of the ways to think about what's happening right now is OpenAI is kind of growing up to become Google and Google's kind of, you know, reinventing itself to be OpenAI. And so, you know, there's like a similar thing there.

• 32:16Peter Diamandis?

  I think that's fascinating, right? So OpenAI is going into the search business and wants to dominate. And of course, Google's been in the search business and it really needs to go Gemini first for this next few years.

• 32:30Peter Diamandis?

  That's true, huh? What do you think about that, Celine?

• 32:32Speaker 01

  I think it's it's very eloquent as usual for Mark. The thing that I find fascinating is Gemini is probably the best model out there for general use. And yet OpenAI just continues to soar in adoption.

• 32:45Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it's like when my when my middle schoolers are like, all they talk about is chat and OpenAI. It's like, seriously, they've captured OpenAI, you know. And let's talk about the relative value. So we have Google at 2 trillion and OpenAI at 300 billion, just 300 billion. Dave, how do you think about the relative value there?

• 33:06Speaker 02

  And Nvidia, 3.3 trillion today. So Nvidia is almost 2x Google all of a sudden.

• 33:10Peter Diamandis?

  Oh, my God. That's crazy.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I tell you, there's some real interesting quandaries in there because Google, you know, Google is losing search. There's no doubt about it. You can only debate the rate, but it's it's moving. And then Google's in a good position to capture a lot of that, but they're much lower value per impression. So really cannibalizes their revenue machine. On the other hand, YouTube and video content are killing it. And they they benefit tremendously from synthetic video creation and also ad optimization using AI. And so those tailwinds are very strong for Google. So you got you got the core dying at the same time. The new things are growing like crazy.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  Then with the within GCP, you know, the Google's, you know, cloud, they have the TPU 7, the new TPUs that have this incredible weight stationary systolic array design, which allows them to be much more efficient than Nvidia at running these core AI processes. And I could go on for hours about it, but I'm telling you, this is like, this is the future of AI chips. And they've got it and they've got it ahead of the curve. And so it's going to be completely sold out. And they're going to redirect it into GCP and use it within their own internal use cases. And I don't know that it'll ever end up not being sold out before they can even manufacture it. So then you're like, okay, Nvidia is in a race with Google over who controls the AI

• 34:32Speaker 02

  chip stack that no one's even talking about yet. And it's all bottlenecked. What's TSMC willing to make for who and why? And Elon Musk now has a huge voice in that because he's part of the, so I mean, like, it's like a, this was going to be the best TV series ever.

• 34:48Peter Diamandis?

  I was gonna say, soap opera, baby. It's Silicon Valley soap opera. And, of course, the whole, the whole Taiwan-China of it all puts this incredibly crazy, you know, so what has China said? They want to own Taiwan by 2028?

• 35:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:04Peter Diamandis?

  Crazy.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think the federal estimate, they don't talk about it much, is that you have to make the assumption that no access to chips from Taiwan by December 2027, which is nowhere near enough time to get the US fabs up and running. So how's that going to play out?

• 35:18Peter Diamandis?

  Disasterously.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  They tell us, you know, 100% for sure that if China takes Taiwan, the fabs won't be operating for China.

• 35:26Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, they will blow, they will destroy them. They'll shut them down.

• 35:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:30Peter Diamandis?

  All right, let's go to our next, our next article here. This one does my heart well, having been in the pharma-related industry. So FDA announces completion of first AI-assisted scientific review pilot and aggressive agency-wide AI rollout. So here's the FDA Commissioner, Martin Makary. FDA is rolling out a Gen AI tool across all centers by June 30th to speed up scientific review for new therapies. I mean, one of the incredibly crazy hardships of, of our world is, what's the problem with the development of new drugs? It's the regulatory

• 36:14Peter Diamandis?

  slowdown. You know, it's the fact that we take sometimes years to make it happen. And the FDA, you know, an FDA

• 36:26Peter Diamandis?

  Employee who approves a drug that then has, you know, kills some patients. Has its disastrous results. But what we don't do is we don't value all the lives lost for not approving a drug. Right, it's just a flip situation.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  This is the safety versus efficacy problem.

• 36:50Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  Uh, which is structural here, but I think the fact that they're using AI for a bunch of stuff is amazing. I think it's great.

• 36:57Peter Diamandis?

  I think it's the beginning. I mean, we should be rolling this out across all agencies and we've discussed this before. Right, so AI can help streamline all agencies and all approval processes. And it's going to be cra- you know, in the future, people are going to look back and say, really? Humans did this? Seriously? How long did it take, like decades? Yeah, it took decades.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm looking for the administration to make real structural change that lasts beyond just one administration.

• 37:26Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  And I think one of the greatest assets we have as a country is 50 different states that can try 50 different ideas. So that if you're stuck somewhere, you can try somewhere else. And we're way under utilizing that core strength that we have. So one of the best things you can do is say, look, let's, let's push, let's deregulate like crazy and push a lot of this into 50 different shots on goal. Even if we make mistakes, we'll be far better off as a country if we have chances for entrepreneurs to move forward in many different places.

• 37:58Peter Diamandis?

  You're, you're spot on there, Dave, and here's an example. For the last decade, the FDA under previous administrations were shutting down all stem cell clinics in the US. And so what happened was if you wanted access to stem cells or a, you know, sort of an advanced

• 38:15Peter Diamandis?

  experimental therapy, you would leave the US. You'd go to the Caribbean, you'd go to Mexico, you'd go to Costa Rica, Panama for these treatments. And the problem is you're In a location that doesn't have advanced medical capabilities if something goes wrong. Well, this year, in fact, this month, we're about to see new regulation in Florida. Specifically, I know this because Fountain Life has two centers, soon three centers in Florida. And Florida is about to pass legislation allowing for stem cell treatments to occur in state. So you're going to have the data finally, and people able to stay there, be near their physicians,

• 39:00Peter Diamandis?

  take the treatments, collect the data accurately, and then learn. Yeah. All right, let's move on to our next subject here. And this one's on CoreWeave, Dave, lead us here. Read the article and let's talk about it.

• 39:14Speaker 02

  Well, we talked about this being a bellwether for the whole IPO market opening up again. And I think CoreWeave is above 70 bucks now, which is great. It's up 40, 50% from the IPO price. Then so, so far, the investors are all happy. I'm sure the iBanks all over Wall Street are saying, hey, we're open for business. Who else is out there? Let's go.

• 39:36Peter Diamandis?

  So, so for those who don't know, talk to us about what CoreWeave does.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  So, yeah, CoreWeave, it's a bellwether for AI. It's a, it's a data center company. The thing that makes it a little weird to people is they borrowed a huge amount of money. They have an enormous amount of debt, which they use to buy Nvidia chips. One of their investors is Nvidia. They financed the data centers with the value of the chips. And the reason that's controversial is because nobody knows how quickly they'll depreciate. I think the current logic is we're going to be compute bound for years. Like every, everything that can compute is going to be in incredible demand, in my opinion, forever hereafter for humanity. We'll look at this early wave of sort of, you know, computation from 1970 to 2020 as kind of the test ground, where sometimes we use the chips.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  A lot of time, there's their line all over our office here, not processing anything. But starting around now and forever hereafter, they're all going to be doing AI all the time. So anything that can compute is going to be in huge demand. And so I think that, you know, CoreWeave will go up in value if that theory is true.

• 40:41Peter Diamandis?

  Computronium, baby. Computronium. It's for those who haven't read enough science fiction, aren't science fiction geeks, computronium is what AI eventually turns all matter in the universe into. So compute all the time, everywhere. The article here from CNBC says CoreWeave beats on revenue reports more than 400% growth in the first earnings after the IPO. So we've been waiting for some, you know, red hot IPOs to move the financial markets, really to break open the logjam because we haven't had many companies going public or even that many acquisitions.

• 41:18Peter Diamandis?

  So for the venture business, Dave, as the head of our partnership with Link XPV, this is amazing news.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  It is amazing news and it was also, the companies that are in the pipeline behind this are much less risky. So I was worried about this being the bellwether because, you know, it should go up, but it'd be with all that debt. You know, if it goes bad, it goes really bad and that would shut down the markets again. So I'm really glad to see it went well. But the ones that are in the pipeline, they're almost all either chip companies or vertical use case companies. And they just can't, they're so low risk, such high return. So this is good. Once the pipeline fills up and we have five, six, seven more IPOs, then I think the train will be rolling.

• 42:06Peter Diamandis?

  I hope so. All right, here's another one from Bloomberg. Next slide here. Microsoft layoffs hit coders hardest with AI costs on the rise. So engineers make 40% of the total layoffs as AI begins to take over parts of their work. Not a surprise. Dave, how do you think about this?

• 42:30Speaker 02

  But it's like right in my wheelhouse. So you know, we've all been telling people for a long time now that almost any white collar coding or other job, it's not going to exist in 2030. And so there's a line between today and 2030. And very few people are doing enough planning to get ready for it. Just to be humane to your employee base, you should have some kind of plan in place. And had some real frustrating conversations this week with a couple of our companies. Because they're all using Blitzy. Blitzy is supposed to be an opportunity to learn what long form, you know, an AI that writes 3 million lines of code in a single night. That is incredibly world changing. And then the reports I got back are, hey, it had some bugs. Like, oh, my God, you completely missed the point.

• 43:15Speaker 02

  Look at the rate of improvement. Look what it's going to do by the end of the year.

• 43:19Peter Diamandis?

  Can you can you slow it down? I love Blitzy. It's one of our investments, full disclosure, in LinkXPB. But if you wanted to replicate another company, right? So one of the biggest challenges right now is the ability of AI to basically go in and replicate a SaaS business, to just basically stand up competition. And so where would you bring Blitzy in to do something like that?

• 43:46Speaker 02

  So Blitzy, you know, in its current form, if you have any legacy code base, you know, 5, 10, 20 million lines of code, and you say, hey, I want you to rebuild this entire product, make it faster, better, and run on the cloud. That's that's kind of their sweet spot right now. But that's not the real point. The real point, if you look three months, six months, nine months into the future, and the rate of improvement of the AI, not just to write code, but to build entire plans, like project plans, it's on this crazy, crazy up slope. And so then if you look just a few months in the future, then Blitzy can come in and say, well, look, here's greenfield opportunity. I've wanted to write a piece of software that does something that's been burning a hole in my pocket

• 44:30Speaker 02

  for years. But it was too expensive. Can I do it now? Yeah, not only can you do it, you can do it in like a night or a week. You know, a lot of people right now use Salesforce.com or Outlook to do things that they've kind of bastardized to their actual use case. And it sort of, it sort of works, but it's not exactly what they wanted, but it's good enough.

• 44:48Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 44:49Speaker 02

  Now you can just vibe code or Blitzy code your way to a perfect solution for exactly what you were really after originally. And so that creates this whole long tail of really, really good, high-quality software that does what you actually wanted. You know, you know, your, your kind of dream, Peter, of like, I get on stage, I've got all this IT around me, I've got avatars I'm talking to. Why am I talking to an IT person? Why can't I just talk to the AI?

• 45:11Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  All orchestrated. That is imminent. I mean, and so that's a good example of the kind of stuff you can suddenly build because the cost per line of code is down a thousand or a million X. And so that's what Blitzy is enabling and.

• 45:24Peter Diamandis?

  I just want to walk into a business meeting where I've got a presentation on my computer and have all the AV work. That's all I want.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  Our favorite joke there drops in, right? AI is easy, but AV is really hard. Courtesy Brad Templeton. Something just struck me, David, as you're talking about this, this means we can finally retire all those old COBOL systems.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, no, this is, I mean.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  I mean, the world runs on legacy COBOL that nobody wants to touch and nobody knows how to maintain. We can essentially rewrite those for the modern world.

• 45:58Speaker 02

  No, the CEO of State Street Bank was telling me that they have all the NAV accounting for all the mutual funds in the country is done on PL1 code on mainframes.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  Why? It's like $300 million a year of maintenance for that tech stack. Why? Well, because it's a billion dollars to rewrite it and I don't want to eat that cost in any given quarter. It'll kill my bonus.

• 46:16Peter Diamandis?

  Wow.

• 46:17Speaker 02

  Well, you bring that billion dollars down by a factor of 10 or 100 and they're like, oh, now I'll do it easily because it fits within my bonus cycle.

• 46:24Speaker 02

  It's just that simple.

• 46:25Peter Diamandis?

  That's exciting. You know, I'll just, I'll just to, to end on this particular article from Bloomberg here on AI.

• 46:34Peter Diamandis?

  You know, I used to like harangue my kids, like you gotta learn to code, gotta like to code, gotta learn to code. And, you know, now it's, you need to learn to vibe code, and you need to learn to think in a way that's concrete, you can describe to your AI. I mean, everybody's going to be a coder, everyone's going to have this ability, and it's pretty extraordinary.

• 46:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm so glad you said that, because I'm working on a memo right now that I'm going to send out to all the CEOs, that says, look, guys, be humane here. Some subset of your people are going to be masters of AI, and then another subset are going to get crushed. Come up with some plan for the people that are going to get crushed, so that it's humane, you know, but and then for the people that are going to be masters of AI, free up half or two thirds of their time, so they can start the 10,000 hours of learning that they need to do, to get on top of this wave. What you're doing right now by turning a blind eye to it is you're dooming all of them, by not giving the time to become masters of AI, not learn to use things like Blitzy and Cursor.

• 47:39Peter Diamandis?

  Yes. Let them play, let them play.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Let them play, yeah.

• 47:42Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 47:43Speaker 02

  But you know, explicitly allow that, you know, it's not going to happen naturally, you gotta have a plan.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  You know, in one of our clients, they had to lay off like a third of their call centers, because they automated it all, and they gave them an internal one-year UBI, and said, go do whatever you want for a year, here's a chunk of money, play. And, and their employees absolutely loved it, and something like 95% got a job very quickly.

• 48:08Peter Diamandis?

  You know, I would say, here's, you know, here's a year of UBI, use it to come up with new businesses, new business ideas that our company could utilize. I mean, that would have been equally good.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  The other point you made, I think, really, really important, because if anyone does to choose to take our advice, telling them to go play with Cursor and do some vibe coding is not good enough. That you have to get them into that new, there's a new mindset related to creativity, that allows you to, to use the AI to do something productive, that goes way beyond just vibe coding. We haven't fully specified that skill set, but we know it involves creativity, we know it involves vision, we know it involves knowing how to use the tools and what the tools do well and don't do well. But it's way beyond just saying, hey, guys, play with cursor a little bit. Okay, now you're an AI person.

• 48:56Peter Diamandis?

  So take it a step further, buddy. What would you recommend?

• 49:00Speaker 02

  I would say that we, you know, the three of us kind of specify what we're learning about that skill set. Who's succeeding, who's failing, and then codify it into actual programs. Like, I suggest you use this product, you do this training program, you try it and build this thing. And just put it out on a website or put it out in this podcast as a roadmap that they can follow. And the people who choose to follow it end up being masters of AI. It'll evolve over time, but if it's not as hard. It's intimidating to everybody. No one's trying, even though it's not that hard, actually.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  You know, what if we have a dedicated podcast episode just to that?

• 49:36Speaker 02

  I'd love that.

• 49:37Speaker 01

  Like, just we'll just go, so have, we'll record one session, Peter will talk, let's talk to Nick and the team about this.

• 49:43Peter Diamandis?

  Sure, do some homework.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  We just have one dedicated session running through and saying, here's how you build your own future and envisioning, and here's some tools, and let's run through some sample use cases.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, give it a brand, like a badge of honor, you know, like, you know, people love these alternate to a university badges of achievement.

• 50:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:01Speaker 02

  We give it one of those.

• 50:02Peter Diamandis?

  This reminds me of like when electricity was first entering the menu, you know, the factory ecosystems. And people were hesitant to bring in electrical systems. And they would finally see a electrical motor running some part of a factory. And they would learn from that, then they'd put it into a different part of the factory. Very slow.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  It's very slow.

• 50:30Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  Can I, can I give a quick anecdote here?

• 50:32Peter Diamandis?

  Of course.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  The worst example of this was in the 1600s when a Scottish guy discovered that the definitive cure for scurvy, which was a vitamin C deficiency disease, you lost your teeth, it was horrible, was eating lemons or oranges. Okay? So he figured that out. And he tells, he tells the Navy, the British Navy. British Navy refuses to believe him for 50 years that such a simple thing could do this thing. They then take 50 years to deploy it throughout the Navy. They take 50 more years to go, oh, maybe we should tell the merchant Navy. The merchant Navy another 50 years, and between known cure and full deployment was 264 years.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  Okay, and forty percent of sailors or thousands of sailors are dying every week. It's a testament to how bad we are as a human species.

• 51:23Peter Diamandis?

  We humans are so screwed.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  Things, right? Luckily, that's shrunk a lot, and most of that, and it's down, I think, down to seventeen years, most of it being longitudinal testing for known cure to disease. But I think this is the cultural issues that we have in adapting to things. My biggest insight about human beings ever is they'd much rather be comfortable than happy.

• 51:45Peter Diamandis?

  Wow, sad. All right, this is a story from.

• 51:49Speaker 02

  Intern at, let's see, this summer, so I'll lean on him. Well, I'll learn a lot from that, but I'll lean on him to come up with this, like, okay, for some, he's high school, you know, coming into college. And so what's the perfect roadmap for staying ahead of this curve from your perspective? We can weave that into our plan for.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  Fantastic, let's do it.

• 52:06Peter Diamandis?

  Everybody, I want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that's very important to me and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love. Company's called Fountain Life, and it's a company I started years ago with Tony Robbins and a group of very talented physicians. You know, most of us don't actually know what's going on inside our body. We're all optimists until that day when you have a pain in your side, you go to the physician in the emergency room and they say, listen, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you have this stage three or four going on. And, you know, it didn't start that morning. It probably was a problem that's been going on for some time, but because we never look, we don't find out.

• 52:49Peter Diamandis?

  So what we built at Fountain Life was the world's most advanced diagnostic centers. We have four across the US today, and we're building twenty around the world. These centers give you a full body MRI, a brain, a brain vasculature, an AI-enabled coronary CT looking for soft plaque, DEXA scan, a GRAIL blood cancer test, a full executive blood workup. It's the most advanced workup you'll ever receive. Hundred fifty gigabytes of data that then go to our AIs and our physicians to find any disease at the very beginning. When it's solvable, you're gonna find out eventually. Might as well find out when you can take action. Fountain Life also has an entire side of therapeutics.

• 53:33Peter Diamandis?

  We look around the world for the most advanced therapeutics that can add 10, 20 healthy years to your life, and we provide them to you at our centers. So if this is of interest to you, please go and check it out. Go to fountainlife.com/peter. When Tony and I wrote our New York Times bestseller, Life Force, we had 30,000 people who reached out to us for Fountain Life memberships. If you go to fountainlife.com/peter, we'll put you to the top of the list. Really, it's something that is, for me, one of the most important things I offer my entire family, the CEOs of my companies, my friends.

• 54:13Peter Diamandis?

  It's a chance to really add decades on to our healthy lifespans. Go to fountainlife.com/peter. It's one of the most important things I can offer to you as one of my listeners. All right, let's go back to our episode. Our next story here is from NPR, which I guess still exists for the moment. I won't go into that, but the story is, "Family Shows AI Video of Slain Victim as an Impact Statement: Possible Legal First." So what does this mean? AI was used to create a video of a victim speaking at his perpetrator's sentencing. And it says slain victim, so I guess the victim is dead. For the first time, AI was used in a US courtroom for a victim impact statement.

• 54:58Peter Diamandis?

  Legal experts see this use of AI as powerful and ethically acceptable. Fascinating. I'm just, it's just fascinating to see how AI is gonna play into different parts of our ecosystems, our regulatory and social worlds.

• 55:21Peter Diamandis?

  Any comments on this?

• 55:22Speaker 01

  I'm surprised they allowed it also. That's a really forward thinking to allow that. But I guess it's the voice of the victim. And if you can simulate it to get some semblance of reality, why not?

• 55:35Speaker 02

  Well, the why not is because the defense will then say, well, if you're using AI testimony, I'm going to produce AI. I mean, it's going to be like, wait, this is deep fake versus deep fake now. It's a very slippery slope. I assume in this case, it was, you know, the judge and everybody wanted the outcome to be, you know, it must have been pretty obvious that they were worried the jury wouldn't

• 55:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:59Speaker 02

  see it that way. So having the victim talk on their own behalf is going to get you the outcome that they want. But again, that opens Pandora's box like crazy.

• 56:09Peter Diamandis?

  All right. Dave, I would love if you would cover this one. So specialized AI systems deliver breakthrough results. Domain adaptive pre-training, adaptive pre-training. What is this all about?

• 56:24Speaker 02

  Well, preface this by saying, one of the listeners last time posted, I love this podcast. It's amazing. It's just like the All In Podcast for geeks. I'm like, perfect. That's the highest compliment I think I've ever gotten. So if this is unique, I apologize.

• 56:40Peter Diamandis?

  We're dealing with the real news that matters, right? This is the stuff that's impacting our lives for the long run.

• 56:48Speaker 02

  So yeah, this is called domain adaptive pre-training. So the way this evolved is I was actually two weekends ago trying to design a circuit,

• 56:57Speaker 02

  a neural network circuit as usual. And I said, I wonder if Gemini is any good at designing circuits? And it was terrible. And so I talked to Alex Wissner-Gross, so you know, the high genius, our mutual high genius friend. And he said, hey, have you heard of this thing from Nvidia? They took an open source model, in this case Lama 2, this is a couple of years ago, and they retrained it to be a circuit designer. And so I pulled up the paper and I'm looking at it and I was like, wow, let's try this thing. So apparently it's like an order of magnitude better at circuit design than the raw model is because it's been retrained to be a circuit designer on specific circuits. But the reason I wanted to bring it up is because in this particular case,

• 57:38Speaker 02

  the cost of training it to do that specific task dramatically better was only a 1% increase in the overall training cost. And so this matters a lot to upcoming startups because the new Llama 4 model, the two trillion parameter model, is a massive, massive investment by Meta that is free, open source, here it is. And the tools to then retrain it to do things like drug discovery or self-driving or chip design or speak some obscure language. Those tools are open source online. There's a whole cookbook in this paper on how you can do it yourself. And a lot of the companies that I look at, a lot of the teams, even the high school teams,

• 58:23Speaker 02

  they're afraid to retrain. They're just putting wrappers around the core models and they're using the models all day. You know, they're talking to either GPT or Gemini all day long, but they never occurs to them to go and retrain it and make it an order of magnitude better at some specific task. So this really addresses, I don't know if you remember, there are a whole batch. Oh, sorry, go ahead.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  So let me get this straight. So you take one of the generalized models, in this case, Llama, and then you give it a training set for that, a very specific niche use case. And then at very, very low cost, you get unbelievable outcome.

• 58:55Speaker 02

  That's exactly right. And I skipped one step in there where first you distill it, make it smaller, much faster, don't lose any of its capability within your domain, but throw away a lot of the irrelevant capabilities because it's been trained on 15 trillion tokens, every language, every concep. And you're just trying to use it to either do math or to do chip design or to speak Swahili. And so there's a lot of overhead that you can strip out. So the distillation process can shrink it by a factor of 10 to 100, make it much faster, and then you can build it back up again with new data that's specific to that domain. So it's called domain adaptive pre-training. It makes total sense, given what you're doing. And very, very few people are trying to do it, even though it's so straightforward. It's just a cookbook laid out for you by Nvidia. Here's how you do it.

• 59:39Speaker 02

  And I did notice that after Nvidia did this, they went completely dark and internal on it. Which tells you how well it works. They're using it entirely to run the chips. But they said, holy crap, this is so good. We can't, we can't just throw this out there anymore. Wow.

• 59:54Peter Diamandis?

  You know, it's just, we don't know how many of these are out there, these hacks, these improvements. We're going to see one in a moment.

• 1:00:04Peter Diamandis?

  Let's, let's go there. In fact, this is an article that I read. I just thought it was extraordinary. It's, it's news from DeepMind. Google DeepMind introduces Alpha Evolve, a coding agent for algorithm discovery. So here's what, what we learned from, from DeepMind and Alphabet Company. So Alpha Evolve uses Gemini AI and evaluators to evolve high-performance code. So in doing this, they were able to improve Gemini's training speed by 23%, which is massive, and improve GPU performance by 32.5%.

• 1:00:47Peter Diamandis?

  So we're talking about new models that allow an AI to self-improve, to improve their, its own algorithms. I mean, we're, we're seeing really the, the knee of the curve in this self-referential, self-improving

• 1:01:07Peter Diamandis?

  AI future that, that really drives us, you know, in a super exponential towards digital superintelligence. I mean, it's all happening right here, right now.

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a, there's a cool video out of Sam Altman over at Sequoia's office this last week.

• 1:01:25Speaker 02

  And one of the questions he got from the crowd is, hey, is, is coding just another capability within all the OpenAI capabilities that you're working on? Or is it somehow special and isolated and you work on it more? And he said, oh, no, it's definitely special. It's, it's very, very special. It's special because. We use it internally and then he bites his tongue and he says, let's move on to the next question. So I asked Alex Wizner Gross about that and he's like, yeah, that's the third time I've seen that. The problem with talking about self-improvement inside these big foundation model companies is it attracts all the dystopians and then all the regulators come right after that.

• 1:02:02Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:03Speaker 02

  But it's really obvious that the reason they care so much about this use case is because the thing is going to improve itself and that's going to accelerate.

• 1:02:11Speaker 01

  I mean, 32.5% GPU performance and this is just like generation one of this thing, right? That's unbelievable.

• 1:02:19Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it's not just, I mean, when I say it's a super exponential, you know, it really is, we've gone from 2X every two years to 10X a year to 100X a year to something beyond that in terms of the improvements that we're seeing. And it's not slowing down. I mean, there are no physical limits right now that we can see. Here's another one from Meta. Meta's FAIR shares new research to achieve advanced machine intelligence. So a number of things announced from Meta this week. Open Molecules 2025, it's a massive dataset enabling breakthroughs in molecular discovery with large atomic system simulation. So I love this stuff.

• 1:03:04Peter Diamandis?

  This is where we can discover new materials and we can discover new drugs and drug interactions. This is humans designing with atomic Lego sets. And then universal model for atoms, another item, another model out of Meta. A foundational machine learning model for accurately predicting atomic interactions across diverse materials. Again, you know, Salim, you and I have discussed this. Material science is at the fundamental core of everything. Material science is going to drive energy, it's going to drive environmental breakthrough, it's going to drive space exploration, it's going to drive all of these things.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  Well, there's this amazing thing of going from atoms to bits, right? And then once you can use bits to then affect atoms, you end up with this incredible feedback loop. And if we can actually manipulate the physical world with these advanced AI models, then holy moly.

• 1:04:04Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  I don't know, did I tell you, Peter, Alexander Keesling, you know, our frat brother, much younger, is now one of the top quantum computing guys in the country and, and, you know, quantum computing is good for two things that we know of. One of them is cracking cryptography.

• 1:04:20Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 1:04:20Speaker 02

  But the other one is, is simulating biological systems.

• 1:04:24Peter Diamandis?

  The hell were you guys doing in this frat?

• 1:04:29Peter Diamandis?

  What was God's name? What was in the water?

• 1:04:33Speaker 02

  Actually, MIT has just become a ridiculous place. It's since we were there, the concentration of entrepreneurs is just unbelievable today. So I'm not surprised, but, but yeah, I think that we should follow up on how that interacts with this because, you know, the AI gets faster and faster and faster, but it needs that simulator in order to keep it on track. And so if you can take the whole drug discovery thing or the whole molecule discovery thing, and then the simulator is actually quantum computer based.

• 1:05:04Peter Diamandis?

  Well, this is what, this is what Jack Hittary is doing at Sandbox AQ, right? They're basically using, you know, super fast AI models to run quantum equations and being able to model things in a way that is understandable on a quantum basis, but doing it with conventional AI.

• 1:05:24Peter Diamandis?

  And, you know, I don't think we've seen anything yet coming out of quantum compared to what we're going to see over the next few years.

• 1:05:32Speaker 02

  I don't know if you've ever watched Three Blue, One Brown, unbelievable videos on all things science, math, technical. It's just the most incredible explanations of everything. They like the transformer AI explanation is epically great.

• 1:05:48Peter Diamandis?

  Would you text me that? I would, I would love to probably, you know, watch it with my boys. That would be great.

• 1:05:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. The, the quantum computing explanation, couldn't do it. It's, it's just, you cannot fathom quantum computing, what it does well and what it doesn't do well in an hour or two.

• 1:06:07Peter Diamandis?

  Well, Salim, you want to, you want to share our favorite conversation about quantum computing?

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  Sure. Ten years ago, Steve Jervis spoke at Singularity University and we asked him in Q and A, the amount of computation that these things can do is off the hook. Where is all this computation coming from? And he goes, "Well, we have a consensus answer amongst the top quantum physicists in the world, but you're not going to like it." We're like, "What? Just tell us." And he's like, "Okay." He goes, "It seems the current consensus is that we're doing the computation in parallel universes and bringing the answer back." And at which point everybody's brains exploded and we're like, "Okay." He goes, "I told you you wouldn't like it." So that was, that was like 10 years ago.

• 1:06:51Peter Diamandis?

  By the way, that's still, it's still, it's still the consensus.

• 1:06:55Speaker 01

  Well, this is the point. Last year, you had Helmut.

• 1:06:59Peter Diamandis?

  Hartmut Nevin.

• 1:07:00Speaker 01

  Hartmut Nevin, the head of Google's Quantum Computing Lab. And I said to him in the Q and A, "Hey, Steve Jervis said this 10 years ago. Now we have 10 years more data experiments, thousands of teams have been working on this. You know, what's the consensus?" And he goes, "You're not going to like it." But it's the same. And in fact, he said, "The existence of a quantum computer may be evidence that we're living in a multiverse." And in which case, you know, everyone just goes, "Okay, come on."

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  Well, before that scares everyone away, we really ought to get Keisling on the pod for a little bit. But the reason there's lots and lots of hope and enthusiasm around this is because we're very close to an AI quantum compiler, where you can just say, just like you do with Gemini, say, "Hey, here's something I want to do. Does it fit quantum or not? And it'll actually tell you and also then compile what you were saying into the actual quantum code. And so then the usability for a startup or for just a weekend hacker, and also the quantum computers are on the cloud. It's not like you need to go and go like.

• 1:08:05Speaker 02

  You did, it's just another login on the cloud. So it's really pretty practical and exciting and coming soon.

• 1:08:09Peter Diamandis?

  Real quick, I've been getting the most unusual compliments lately on my skin. Truth is, I use a lotion every morning and every night religiously called OneSkin. It was developed by four PhD women who determined a 10 amino acid sequence that is a senolytic that kills senile cells in your skin. And this literally reverses the age of your skin, and I think it's one of the most incredible products. I use it all the time. If you're interested, check out the show notes. I've asked my team to link to it below. All right, let's get back to the episode. You know, I'm always looking for tipping points. When do we know things are hitting an inflection point and accelerating and things are changing?

• 1:08:53Peter Diamandis?

  And this article out of the New York Times is one of them. So, quote, "Top Priority From Pope Leo Warned The World Of The AI Threat." So Pope Leo XIV warned that AI poses serious risk to human dignity, justice, and labor, and considers that AI must be developed, quote, "for the good of all," and calls for ethical use. And it's not his commentary, but the fact that this is a New York Times article and that the Pope is focusing on AI in the first month of his, you know, papal leadership, if that's the right terminology. So, it's pretty extraordinary.

• 1:09:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's great because, you know, there's a billion Catholics all over the world, including my wife, and the underreaction is rampant. And when you get somebody as renowned as the Pope saying, "Okay, here are the priorities." It's very similar to experience at a much smaller scale, but Joe Wu, the president of Northeastern in the commencement address last year, said, "AI will affect every one of you, no matter what you majored in, you must do AI."

• 1:10:01Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:02Speaker 02

  And he's the only university president I heard say that. And it's like, wow, thank God. So now, now you've got, well, thank God again, you've got the Pope giving you, giving you the heads up that this is coming, and hopefully that'll create some motion.

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  It's it's great to see them getting in front of this, you know, as opposed to waiting three hundred years to acknowledge the earth goes around the sun. This this is at least much more, and I gotta admit, the couple of times I've been to the Vatican the last few years, Peter, you've been there a couple of times as well, is they've been way, way more up to speed with what's happening in technology than I ever would have given them.

• 1:10:35Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, we had we had sessions on regenerative medicine and longevity there, and I was pretty impressed the topics were were allowed. But I think it's going to be interesting if an AI claims to be conscious, conscious, right, and

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  See what the reaction is then.

• 1:10:55Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, yeah, maybe they'll let women, maybe they'll let women to actually become priests someday, and then AIs will follow after that, we'll see.

• 1:11:02Speaker 01

  Well, just another note on this was, you know, the last Pope had this defining quality, which was tenderness.

• 1:11:10Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:10Speaker 01

  One of the most extraordinary, humble, wonderful men you could ever meet. And usually when they voted a new Pope, they go the other way. And it's amazing to see them continuing the the same path in this in this new Pope. So it's great to see.

• 1:11:24Peter Diamandis?

  You know, by the way, one of the most extraordinary things you can do with the large language models is take very dense and complicated information like the Bible and make it understandable to you, you know, and the and the Bible and the Bible is in every large language model out there in detail. So, I mean, talk about Bible study. I I think there's no better Bible study than a conversation with your favorite.

• 1:11:52Speaker 01

  Can I give you the retro version of this?

• 1:11:54Peter Diamandis?

  Sure.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  In the 1500s, there was a Swedish monk, he was called Swedenborg, okay?

• 1:11:59Peter Diamandis?

  Okay.

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  And he and he was a psychic. And and what he did was, he basically realized that this decided that the Bible is a set of coded rules, and you had to kind of apply these filters. So one of the rules that you applied was any verse that has water in it is truth. Any verse that has fire in it is false and you should just check it out. And he basically rewrote the Bible based on like these rules that they divined. And when you read the resulting text, it's unbelievably beautiful.

• 1:12:27Peter Diamandis?

  Huh.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  So this is like a new version of that, I think, applied when we say AI can help us interpret some of this stuff.

• 1:12:34Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing. All right, let's let's turn to other exponential news beyond AI. Uh, this is a story that I love. This came out uh from Archer. Archer Aviation, I've had them on my stage at uh at the Abundance Summit. Archer is the new official air taxi provider for LA 28 Olympics and here is the tweet. We're extremely proud to announce that Archer is the official air taxi provider for the LA 28 Olympics and the Paralympic Games and Team USA. So I've been saying this for a bit now, uh, that is the target deadline. So Archer is beginning operation, it's built manufacturing plants. We also have in the US, uh, Joby Aviation and we have Beta.

• 1:13:18Peter Diamandis?

  These are sort of the flying cars and I've had this conversation. They're officially called EVTOLs, Electric Vertical Takeoff or Landing. And that name just rolls off the tongue and hits the floor. Uh, I think uh flying taxis or flying cars is is better. And the 28 Olympics is when uh manufacturing, operations, FAA regulations all need to be in place. You know, I fly my airplane out of Santa Monica Airport here, uh, which the runway has been shortened from 5,000 feet to 3,000 feet. Uh, eventually it's supposed to be closed down in 2028. And hopefully what will happen is it will become a uh a vertiport uh for these to take off and land.

• 1:14:02Peter Diamandis?

  So if I want to go to, you know, Malibu or want to go to a Dodger game downtown LA or Santa Barbara, I can hop in and avoid uh the 405, which is like, you know, hell on earth. If there was one breakthrough I've been waiting for forever and a day, it's this one.

• 1:14:21Speaker 01

  Because this will open up and enable so many things. Just consider how many amazing little plots of land are high up on the side of a mountain that you can't get to. Right? And now become accessible.

• 1:14:31Peter Diamandis?

  Huge geographic arbitrage, right?

• 1:14:34Speaker 01

  Massive.

• 1:14:35Peter Diamandis?

  I've talked about, you know, go buy island real estate off the coast. Uh, that doesn't have easy access, but is is beautiful. And just set up EV toll service.

• 1:14:48Speaker 02

  A lot of islands, uh, out here on the East Coast, Peter.

• 1:14:51Peter Diamandis?

  Say again?

• 1:14:52Speaker 02

  A lot of really nice islands out here. Actually, I look at a bunch of them every day.

• 1:14:55Peter Diamandis?

  All right, well, let's do it.

• 1:14:56Speaker 02

  So let's do it. Yeah, I think the, uh, you know, the the barrier is safety, obviously, but the safety, you know, each of those electric motors is completely independent. And, uh, so so the power safety is going to be, I think, pretty doable. And then the air to air, like, it's all AI controlled, Dave, you know?

• 1:15:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's not, I think it's it's more infrastructure because you need specialized gates, you need specialized, uh, facilities to deal with this, all that stuff.

• 1:15:23Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it is gonna be.

• 1:15:24Speaker 01

  The safety is definitely, I think I'd feel safe even landing at Newark with one of these right now.

• 1:15:29Speaker 02

  I think my real point there is there are absolutely no barriers to this, and it's all regulatory. So having this forcing function deadline is going to put the manpower on it. Once the people are working on it, it's gonna happen.

• 1:15:39Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:40Speaker 02

  It's really exciting, actually, to have a deadline.

• 1:15:42Peter Diamandis?

  It is. And I mean, it's the number one driver, I think, and super excited to hear this announcement.

• 1:15:47Speaker 01

  I spent two hours yesterday trying to get home from Kennedy Airport and two hours last week trying to get to Sao Paulo Airport. So God help us get this thing going faster.

• 1:15:56Peter Diamandis?

  The alternative is helicopters, which are are damn dangerous.

• 1:15:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:00Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, they truly are. All right, let's move on. Uh, next subject here is longevity, uh, one of my favorite subjects. Want to hit on a couple of articles and and subjects here. Uh, Dave, you were there. Salim, you were someplace on Earth, uh, even though you're a director of the X Prize Foundation. So the big news here is in, uh, November twenty twenty three in Riyadh. Once again, this is Saudi Arabia putting their money behind advancements. Uh, we announced the hundred and one million dollar, uh, health span X Prize. This is an X Prize uh, directed at trying to add a minimum of ten years. A goal of 20 years of additional health in immune cognition and muscle.

• 1:16:46Peter Diamandis?

  And for the first time, what we're doing is we're providing milestone awards to help teams make progress. We've had 623 teams register for this X Prize, super proud of that. And last week, Dave and I, you and I were sitting together. We awarded 40 of the teams with $250,000, totaling $10 million in this Milestone One award ceremony. And pretty amazing teams, I think we had winners from 12, 14 countries, from Australia to China, throughout Europe, the US, much of Asia. What did you think of it, Dave?

• 1:17:25Speaker 02

  Well, right out of the gate, it's amazing how you've... You know, the original X Prize that you conceived of was trivial to measure compared to what you're doing now.

• 1:17:36Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:37Speaker 02

  And, but the impact of this is so incredibly massive. So in terms of the X Prize overall mission, it's just the best idea ever. To try and make it a measurable, manageable prize must have been incredibly hard. And so congratulations on that, this is clearly working.

• 1:17:54Peter Diamandis?

  Thank you. I gotta pass the congrats on to my partner in crime, Dr. Jamie Justice, who is the executive director of this competition. Yannick Pessaltis helped me find her. And she's been running it, working with an incredible scientific advisory board. Mahmood Khan, the CEO of Evolution, which think of it as health and evolution. I'm invested in a whole bunch of different technologies here, and I advise different companies. So I am, you know, conflict incarnate, but I'm outside. Be clear, I'm not involved in any team selections, any team judging. I'm a bystander watching and rooting for a winner here sooner rather than later.

• 1:18:38Speaker 01

  I think it's awesome. This is the biggest public prize ever given in the history of humanity.

• 1:18:42Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it is.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  And this is just so great.

• 1:18:45Peter Diamandis?

  Compared to Elon, we just awarded Elon's $100 million prize. And this one's $101 million prize specifically, so it would be bigger than Elon's X Prize.

• 1:18:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, the other thing that jumped out at me on Monday down in New York is the the original X Prize, $10 million prize, and I think maybe $100 million of effort to win the $10 million prize.

• 1:19:06Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, it's a 10x return, yeah.

• 1:19:07Speaker 02

  So then the the carbon removal prize, you know, was kind of the opposite of that huge prize from Elon Musk's, you know, coffers, and somebody actually made a lot of money on it. This one is back to the original mission, which is as a force multiplier, $101 million prize, the number on stage was some massive amount of effort has gone into winning these stages.

• 1:19:31Speaker 01

  30x is the overall leverage that the prizes are delivering now, right?

• 1:19:35Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. So we've we've generated, we've launched about $550 million of prize purses, and we're close to $10 billion in R and D spent cumulatively by all the teams over the last 30 years to do this. And it's a great idea, and you know, if you go to Xprize.org, folks can see about all the X Prizes. One of my favorite ones as well going on right now is the wildfire prize. I did a Moonshots podcast with with Palmer Lucky, which was super fun, the CEO of Andaril, and Palmer was the first person to register in this wildfire prize. I've seen his technology going after it, and it's amazing. Super excited for that.

• 1:20:20Peter Diamandis?

  All right, let's go to a related article on longevity. A lot of people are concerned that if we extend the human health span, so in the United States, average life expectancy, how long your heart is ticking, is about 79 years old, is when the average, you know, age of death. Average health expectancy, how long you're healthy, is 63. So there's this 16-year gap between when you stop being healthy and when you die, and it's just, you know, miserable for a multitude of reasons. And and so people say, well, if you extend the health span and lifespan to 100, 120,

• 1:21:04Peter Diamandis?

  aren't we going to have an overpopulation issue? Well, it's just the opposite. So I used this article to bring this conversation to us. Turkey declares 2025 as the year of family to curb declining birth rates. So this article just popped out in 2024, the birth rate in Turkey was 1.48 children per family. You need 2.1 children to replace your existing population. But, you know, Turkey is doing pretty well compared to other countries. So I went and used my favorite LLMs to come up with who are the top 10 lowest birth rate countries?

• 1:21:44Peter Diamandis?

  And they're not, you know, insignificant countries. So check this out. South Korea has 0.72 children per woman. South Korea is sublimating, it's vaporizing, it's going away, right? Hong Kong, 0.8, Palau, 0.8, Singapore, 0.9, Puerto Rico, 0.9, Taiwan, 1.1, China, 1.16, Spain, 1.19, Italy, 1.2, Ukraine, 1.22 children per family. It's a problem. You know, Elon's been very vocal about this. I have as well. The biggest issue is not overpopulation, right? The old population bomb theory isn't playing out.

• 1:22:26Peter Diamandis?

  As we create, as we create increased abundance, the opposite is true. It's, it's a underpopulation issue.

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, the South Korea one is nuts. It's saying that the birth rate is three times less than it needs to be.

• 1:22:39Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, to maintain their population.

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  It's, yeah, it's really ridiculous.

• 1:22:43Peter Diamandis?

  So what does a country do? It starts offering massive benefits for

• 1:22:47Speaker 01

  Incentives.

• 1:22:48Peter Diamandis?

  having children. Dave, any thoughts on this?

• 1:22:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I read up on the incentives and they're, they're not even close to covering the cost of raising a child and no one's reacting to the incentives. So I also haven't modeled out how the declining birth rate and the increasing longevity, you know, is there a dip and then a climb or is it smooth? And it'd be worth trying to, it's hard to predict the longevity curve, but it'd be worth trying to map that out. But one thing I can say is there's a perception in the US that, that China's trying to beat us in AI and China's trying to take over the world and China's gonna use it. But actually, what's, what's driving China's incredibly fast push into AI and robotics is a ridiculous demographic time bomb that hit Japan and they have the exact same problem times. Much worse coming in China.

• 1:23:36Peter Diamandis?

  It's survival. It's fundamental survival. By the way, the other side of the equation is India, right, with 1.41 billion people, uh, the majority of which are an absolute, you know, bottom of the pyramid. Uh, uh, they need AI and robotics to, for education, for healthcare. They can't survive as a nation without this. Are you seeing that, Salim?

• 1:24:01Speaker 01

  I have to go a bit tuck a cheek on this. I was in India and I introduced two random people together and they knew five people in common. Then I introduced two other random people together and they knew 10 people in common. And I'm convinced that India has like 50,000 people and CGI to simulate a one and a half billion. It's like, everybody knows everybody. It's insane. Um, I've not lived in Bombay since I was 10 years old and I can go to a party and I will know five people. And it's ridiculous. Um, anyway, but the, the broader point I think is dead on that, that the, the opportunity for robotics, for elderly care and education and healthcare in general,

• 1:24:40Speaker 01

  there, there's such, so little of it. It's like a water in a desert. Any little thing is going to totally change the landscape. I'm super excited by the potential there. You know, with Chinese robotics, your folks think it's incredible.

• 1:24:53Speaker 02

  Good segue into Elon updates, but one of the things I'm excited about in, in the direction things are growing. You know, globalization is kind of falling apart, uh, in a big way, actually. But globalization was almost entirely driven by cheap labor. Uh, now with the direction things are going, you know, robotics doesn't happen naturally in the US because you can always do something very cheaply with Philippine or Indian labor. But if, if that becomes less true, uh, then we have to invest in robotics, which in the long run is a much, much smarter direction for the world to go. And so that should kickstart investment, uh, in the category because the technology, you know, the vision systems, the tactile systems, all of that is solved now.

• 1:25:35Peter Diamandis?

  Let's put the numbers on the table here. Minimum wage in California today is $20 an hour. The projection, I was just with Cyrus Segiri. We do a monthly exponential mastermind for the abundance members. And Cyrus gave one yesterday on humanoid robotics and flying cars and spaceships. And we're talking about this. The projected price per hour for operating a humanoid robot is going to be a dollar an hour. At a base cost, it's 40 cents an hour, but add maintenance and electricity and everything else on it. Insurance, it's a buck an hour.

• 1:26:14Peter Diamandis?

  And this arbitrage between a dollar an hour for a GPT five level Grok four level humanoid robot that operates 24/7 compared to a, you know, a teenager from California. There's just no comparison. Ain't gonna happen.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  Until the robots become conscious and start demanding equal rights and equal pay.

• 1:26:35Peter Diamandis?

  Well, it's like if we have robots doing all of our drudgery work.

• 1:26:41Peter Diamandis?

  They're not going to be happy about that. Let's go on. We actually added a special section this week on Elon company updates because there's a lot of them. And we'll wrap up with this segment today, but I think it's important. You know, Elon still is our, you know, moonshot. Our moonshot mate just really driving extraordinary progress. And how he does this, while everything else he does, right? He's in Doge in the news all the time, but still he's operating four other, you know, crazy moonshot companies, five, if you want to. Yeah, five, right? So let's talk about three of them here. The first is Elon in Saudi Arabia.

• 1:27:26Peter Diamandis?

  He was by Trump's side the entire time. Let's listen to a conversation about Elon announcing robot taxis and Starlink in Saudi Arabia. Here we go.

• 1:27:38Speaker 05

  My prediction actually for humanoid robots is that ultimately there will be tens of billions. Potentially, we could have an economy 10 times the size of the current global economy, where no one wants for anything. You know, sometimes in AI, they talk about universal basic income. I think it's actually going to be universal high income, where anyone can have any goods or services that they want. It would be very exciting to have autonomous vehicles here in the Kingdom. I'd also like to thank the Kingdom for approving Starlink for maritime and aviation use.

• 1:28:22Peter Diamandis?

  So there he is with Minister Abdullah Swaha, who has been sort of a key point of contact, making sort of announcements on robotics. I'm going to be amazed if we don't see Optimus manufactured in Saudi Arabia as well. Here's the next article. SpaceX deploys 28 additional satellites. Now there are 7,135 Starlink satellites in orbit. The FCC has approved 12,000 of the Gen 1 and 7,500 of the Gen 2, but SpaceX has proposed expanding the constellation to 42,000 satellites.

• 1:29:07Peter Diamandis?

  That's either 42 because of, you know, Douglas Adams, or it's 42000 because like Elon likes 420. I don't know, but hey. Let's pause there. What do you guys think about Elon's companies in Saudi?

• 1:29:23Speaker 02

  Well, I mean Elon, like you said, his ability to manage five concurrent mega companies plus Doge. It's a case study and a role model for how you use one AI assistance and then two integrators. You know, people who who are incredibly like minded, finish your own sentences, but are entirely focused on operations. Very similar to Google in the early days. And so I try and encourage everyone I bump into to study Elon very, very closely, like at the individual actions level. And you know, take the part you want to take, but replicate a lot of it. And it clearly is a, as a path to success.

• 1:29:58Speaker 01

  The part I love is where he, every week he has what five companies. So he goes one day a week to each one and says, what problem do you need me to help solve? And then, so you're solving a problem a week, 50 problems a year per company. Amazing.

• 1:30:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know where you wanted to go exactly, but, but there's never been a point in history where the tech titans have hung out with the politicians and world leaders. This is a world, a lifetime world first. I don't know if anyone's really appreciated the magnitude of that.

• 1:30:29Peter Diamandis?

  I love your guys' opinion on Tesla, right? So Tesla has taken a massive beating because of Elon in the government, in Doge in particular. And I tweeted, I don't know, a couple of weeks ago that the value of Tesla is not in the car sales. It's in the robot taxi and in Optimus, which are, you know, trillion dollar opportunities. How do you guys feel about Tesla stock?

• 1:30:59Speaker 02

  To me, this one's really, really obvious. So, you know, we all lived through the Apple cycle where Apple was the greatest company and enabled us like crazy. Then Apple products didn't work at all and it was torture, like our actual daily lives turned into this hell of needing to migrate to Sun or to a PC. And, and then Steve Jobs came back and magically life is great again. It's a very real thing, but you just have to track the talent. So if Steve Jobs comes back, it's not Steve alone. He brings this incredible wave of talent.

• 1:31:29Speaker 01

  And inspiration. And inspiration, yeah, yeah.

• 1:31:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, so if Elon can attract that talent to Tesla still, it'll become a great robotics company. It's, it's cheap. If you look at LinkedIn and you see that Elon's so distracted, he's not working on the recruiting.

• 1:31:43Peter Diamandis?

  You mean X.

• 1:31:43Speaker 02

  Then it's a car company.

• 1:31:47Peter Diamandis?

  So, yes.

• 1:31:48Speaker 01

  I've, you know, in the early years of Tesla, when he was about to run out of money every quarter, it was like hard to put money into it. And so lots of us didn't put money into it. And then early years of SpaceX, the rockets were crashing, so you didn't put money into it. Early years of Starlink, you're like, how is this gonna work? And so, and so the, the lesson that people have learned over the years is don't ever bet against Elon. His manic focus, his engineering ability, his ability to distill key problems and just go after them and solve them. The cluster approach they use at Grok with, with, to solve the, the things is this is like legendary stuff

• 1:32:32Speaker 01

  that's gonna go down for centuries in terms of somebody making massive turning points. So I think the opportunity for Tesla to totally turn it around with robotaxis, but also note that there are all these million cars are, are carrying around energy.

• 1:32:49Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 1:32:49Speaker 01

  That is a huge marginal, marginal impact on things, right? There's that. There's the, the fact that you could integrate that with Starlink, with solar panels, with other stuff. Then you bring in the humanoid robots, right? And, and now things like, so I think this is a monster opportunity to buy a stock that will never be lower than it is now.

• 1:33:13Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I, I agree with you. So when we think about Elon's companies, we think about SpaceX, of course, and Tesla, and X, and XAI, and Neuralink. And people forget about the fact that he still has the boring company. I remember the tweet. What's that?

• 1:33:32Speaker 01

  But, and Neuralink.

• 1:33:33Peter Diamandis?

  I mentioned Neuralink, yes. But I remember the tweet, you know, he's, he's going from Hawthorne to Beverly Hills to his home. He's going from SpaceX headquarters to his home. And like, you know, the 405 is jammed and he goes, this is insane. There needs to be a better way. And he tweets, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to start tunneling under LA. And that's him, right? When he, when he has a crazy idea, he goes, yep, that's what I'm gonna do. It's gonna be a boring company. I'll call it the boring company. But let's watch this video. For the first time ever, the boring company has continuously mined. In a zero people in tunnel configuration, there's no one in the machine which is simultaneously advancing forward and erecting a ring,

• 1:34:18Peter Diamandis?

  in other words, building a tunnel behind it. Each full ring weighs 24,000 pounds. So you can see here in this video, basically, a completely automated process of drilling, extracting the earth and building a tunnel behind.

• 1:34:40Peter Diamandis?

  I was, you know, in my conversations with Palmer Lucky, Palmer was saying that while we are, you know, we have a space force, an air force, an army, that eventually there will be an underground force as well as tunnel technology gets more advanced.

• 1:34:57Speaker 01

  An underground force.

• 1:34:58Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, crazy.

• 1:34:59Speaker 01

  I think the Boring Company has the greatest name for a company in history.

• 1:35:03Peter Diamandis?

  I, I, I agree. So that's the articles for this week. Pretty intense, guys. I can't wait for us to get together again. If you've been watching this episode of Moonshots and WTF Just Happened in Tech, our mission here is deliver to you and contextualize the most important news in the tech world that's impacting every company, every industry, every parent, every aspect of our lives. Please subscribe. Give us your feedback. Tell us what articles you enjoyed listening to, what you want to listen to next. Tell me, you know, do you like Dave better or Salim better? You know, and, and who else would you like on this podcast?

• 1:35:45Speaker 01

  Can I do a small plug?

• 1:35:46Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:35:47Speaker 01

  We did an EXO workshop last year for a hundred bucks. It sold out. People said it was one of the best workshops they ever had. We're doing another one on May 20th. So anybody interested?

• 1:35:56Peter Diamandis?

  What's being covered in that workshop on May 20th, which is my birthday, by the way?

• 1:36:01Speaker 01

  It's how do you build an EXO? So Peter, you should drop in for 30 seconds, say happy, so we can say happy birthday to you.

• 1:36:07Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, send me, send me.

• 1:36:08Speaker 01

  I'll get you the details. But we cover how do you build an EXO? And people loved it. So we're going to just keep doing that every month roughly. Last one sold out, so it'll be great.

• 1:36:18Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing. And EXO is an exponential organization that's performing 10x compared to your competition. Salim and I have written an extraordinary book on the subject. Check it out. But more importantly, go sign up for Salim's workshop. We'll put it in the notes below, but where do people go to?

• 1:36:38Speaker 01

  Just go to openexo.com, you'll see a link to it, but we'll pull the link in the notes.

• 1:36:43Peter Diamandis?

  Dave, what are you excited about for the coming weeks and months?

• 1:36:46Speaker 02

  Well, that comment in the last week's podcast about, hey, the geeky version of All In, I really, if people are commenting on this podcast too, entertaining you, sure, that's that's fine, but we really actually want to do things and say things that help you map out your life and change your direction. And so if you're suggesting guests or suggesting topics or whatever, and, you know, keep it actionable and really be honest with yourself, like, did anything I heard here today impact the way I'm going to spend the next week? And so we can really focus on those things because this is the only podcast I know of where we cover not just the technical aspects, but also the societal, the macroeconomic.

• 1:37:28Speaker 02

  And I don't know of any other place that does that well. So if we can keep bringing in more of that to this, this can become the kind of forum for...

• 1:37:36Speaker 01

  I think the umbrella premise is so simple, right? Technology is a major driver of progress in the world. As Rick Kurzweil says, it may be the only major driver of progress in the world. And so these breakthroughs that are happening at an increased frequency become more and more material to how our lives are going to be lived.

• 1:37:51Peter Diamandis?

  And please know that between Salim, Dave, myself, and our entire research teams, we're scouting everything that's going on in humanoid robotics, in space, in AI, in Bitcoin, in 3D printing, and we're doing the work.

• 1:38:08Speaker 01

  It's why I'm bold.

• 1:38:12Peter Diamandis?

  But beautiful.

• 1:38:13Speaker 02

  And we have a lot of resources too. If there's a complicated topic that you really want to understand, we can either figure it out or farm it out and then bring it back to you.

• 1:38:21Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. Anyway, give us your feedback. We love doing this. And guys, I love having you as my moonshot mates. See you guys soon. Take care, guys. Everybody, thanks for listening to Moonshots. You know, this is the content I love sharing with the world. Every week I put out two blogs, a lot of it from the content here, but these are my personal journals of things that I'm learning, the conversations I'm having about AI, about longevity, about the important technology transforming all of our worlds. If you're interested, again, please join me and subscribe at dmantis.com/subscribe. That's dmantis.com/subscribe. See you next week on Moonshots.