The Mother of All Condiments, French Dip Mania and a Travel Diva Chef Exposed

The World Condiment Cup has officially begun so Adrienne and Joe kick things off with the results from the first round. Which will move on to the next round: may, mustard, tzatziki, or hoisin sauce? Plus, we debate how 'mother sauces' play into condiment rankings. On this episode we also discuss: Fork It or Forget It: French Dip Mania Review Review: a Five-Star guest gets all the credit for his homegrown tomatoes and heartwarming positivity “The Family Reunion” culinary event recap… which ambitious dish did Adrienne serve? Mentor Moment: helping a chef level up (and network outside the restaurant) Walk-In Confession (Vacation Edition): Joe admits to bringing a wide assortment of kitchen tools wherever he travels Follow the show: @chefscutpod Follow Adrienne: @chefadriennecheatham Follow Joe: @insta.flamm

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  Hello and welcome back to the chef's cut. I am Adrian Cheatham.

• 0:05Joe Flamm?

  And I am Joe Flamage. So, so good to be back always and to see your face.

• 0:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  Joe, so good to be back and crazy. This global condiment cup is heating up. I mean, we have a great episode and we're going to get into all of this. Let's tell the people what we're doing today.

• 0:20Joe Flamm?

  Age, we're starting off with some bracketology first and foremost. After we get out of there, I got a pretty good forky to forget it for you that hits close to home, talking about how you guys are losing your minds over a $27 sandwich.

• 0:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh.

• 0:34Joe Flamm?

  I think we're going to do a little uplifting review review today. We're going positive. They go, well, we're going high. We're choosing the high road for once in our lives. I gotta hear about family reunion. You just got back. Gotta know what went on down there in Virginia. Can't wait to hear about it. And a special little vacation version of walking confession for you.

• 0:53Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ooh, I can't wait. Let's get into it.

• 0:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  So a couple of weeks ago, we kicked off the global condiment cup. And as you know, we combined sales data and audience feedback to identify the top 16 worldwide condiments. We put them into four categories and the winner of each category is going to go head to head until only one champion remains. So we just finished our first category. This week we had our spreads and dips bracket and oh my God, mayonnaise blew everybody out of the water. So this week we had mayonnaise, mustard, tzatziki and hoisin. Hoisin is usually mixed with something, but you can, like I smear it on scallion pancakes when I'm making.

• 1:39Joe Flamm?

  Oh, yeah. Hoisin's a straight up, that's a straight up condiment. Yeah.

• 1:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, people were coming at me like, that's not something, that's not a dip or spread. I beg to differ and the peaking duck palace begs to differ.

• 1:49Joe Flamm?

  You're not dipping and spreading right.

• 1:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  So 43% of the vote, Joe, went to mayonnaise.

• 1:57Joe Flamm?

  Not surprised. Not surprised.

• 1:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  43%. That's almost half of the respondents.

• 2:03Joe Flamm?

  Cause what you had tzatziki, you had hoisin, what was the fourth one?

• 2:06Adrienne Cheatham?

  Mustard.

• 2:07Joe Flamm?

  See, okay, this is like mustard gets a bad shake though. Like I've been thinking about this for days and I will say.

• 2:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  Have you been up at night watching the poll results?

• 2:18Joe Flamm?

  I, I have, you know, like I'm in the election night room. And I think, you know, this is democratic process. We let the people vote, right? But I think really. Mustard should have won it all for one reason.

• 2:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  Why?

• 2:33Joe Flamm?

  I think if, like, if you look at, like, think about mother sauces in cooking.

• 2:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ah.

• 2:38Joe Flamm?

  So a mother sauce in cooking is, you know, a sauce that's your base for other sauces, right? So like, take a bechamel and from a bechamel, you make a mornay and you can make 20 other sauces.

• 2:48Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 2:49Joe Flamm?

  I think as far as the condiment world goes, mustard's probably the greatest mother sauce.

• 2:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  Interesting, as opposed to mayonnaise, though, because from mayonnaise, I mean, it's technically like aioli. You can group all those under mayonnaise.

• 3:03Joe Flamm?

  Right, but you can't make mayonnaise without mustard.

• 3:06Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ah, ooh, ooh.

• 3:09Joe Flamm?

  So mayonnaise would be a daughter sauce of mustard.

• 3:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Mayonnaise is a derivative.

• 3:15Joe Flamm?

  Yes, so I was thinking about this. I got, I went way, way down a weird rabbit hole of like creating condiment mother sauces in my heads and what their derivatives are. I'm like, okay, well, fish sauce is a condiment, then, you know, it's the mother sauce for.

• 3:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  Knocchon.

• 3:29Joe Flamm?

  Knocchon, knocchon, like a million other things, right? So then, you know, whatever. Either way, I think mustard got a bad shake. I think, you know, the people did mustard dirty. And I think it's still the pound for pound champion. However, this is a democratic process and we're just talking straight delicious, right?

• 3:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes.

• 3:47Joe Flamm?

  And versatility, like mayonnaise.

• 3:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  I mean, and that's the thing. So I agree. I, I hadn't thought about it in terms of mother sauces. And I was kind of like, hmm, what does Joe, where, where are we going with this one? But you're right. I mean, you could technically, I've made mayonnaise without mustard, but in the classic recipe, I'm pretty sure it's in there. Just like, I've made it with just egg yolk, lemon juice and oil, but I think the classic might have a scoop of Dijon, right?

• 4:11Joe Flamm?

  I think so.

• 4:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  I think so. It's always in there.

• 4:14Joe Flamm?

  But you, so yeah, you can make it without, but still, you know, we're splitting hairs there. But hold on, mayonnaise, I think. And I think this is where where you get the wins, right, is where Mayday's wins is like, it's just good on so many things and it's a flavor multiplier.

• 4:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, and I found really interesting that a lot of chefs who voted, voted for mayonnaise. So what is it that chefs know that we're voting for mayonnaise? Because the more I thought about it, I'm like, I do use mayonnaise in a ton of different ways. I use it as a base.

• 4:47Joe Flamm?

  Right. And you could say what you want, but I would bet even you know, you're like, oh, I use more chili crisps than anything. It's like, Mormon than mayonnaise?

• 4:54Adrienne Cheatham?

  I mean, you're right.

• 4:56Joe Flamm?

  Like we use a ton of mayonnaise. You think of any restaurant, you know, I remember when I worked at Girl to Goat, I think at one point I worked a station that had six different aiolis on it.

• 5:03Adrienne Cheatham?

  Whoa.

• 5:04Joe Flamm?

  What chefs know is like fat carries flavor.

• 5:07Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 5:07Joe Flamm?

  And mayonnaise is all fat. You know what I mean? It is egg yolks, which are fat, with oil whisked into it, which is fat. So.

• 5:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  And a sprinkle of salt.

• 5:16Joe Flamm?

  Right. And so you're taking something and you're creating like a layer of fat that you can put on something that's going to hold it. And then it carries any flavor super, super well.

• 5:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  It really does.

• 5:25Joe Flamm?

  It carries heat, it carries sweet, it carries acid.

• 5:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's what I was gonna say.

• 5:29Joe Flamm?

  Any single thing you throw at it, it is a perfect, perfect vessel to take your flavor journey to the island you're trying to get to, H.

• 5:37Adrienne Cheatham?

  Have you ever sauteed in mayonnaise? I have, and it was delightful.

• 5:43Joe Flamm?

  What do you mean?

• 5:44Adrienne Cheatham?

  So mayonnaise, if you add it to a saute pan, say you're out of oil, you're, you know, God forbid you're out of butter or whatever you're normally going to saute. You have some vegetables that are par cooked. So you have some blanched spring peas or some asparagus that's been par cooked already. So it's not going in raw. You get your pan, you add a spoonful of mayonnaise, you let it melt, and then the oil separates. And then you use that to saute. When I tell you it is like a little piece of heaven. It's fricking delicious because you get some tang and you get some fat and it coats beautifully and it's delicious. I've used it for grilled cheese also.

• 6:23Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, it makes sense. I was gonna say I've done the grilled cheese one where you put mayonnaise on the outside instead of butter.

• 6:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 6:28Joe Flamm?

  And it toasts it up. Really, really nice.

• 6:30Adrienne Cheatham?

  Gorgeous.

• 6:31Joe Flamm?

  It makes a nice grilled cheese.

• 6:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  It really does.

• 6:34Joe Flamm?

  It's not the preferred way for it in my house, but. It's got the versatility is what it is. You know what I mean? It's just one of those things where it makes sense to me. Chefs love it.

• 6:44Adrienne Cheatham?

  Because like if I'm having people over, if I need to make a spread or I need to make a dip or I need to add something to like some store bought hummus, I can grate a little bit of garlic into it, add a spoonful of mayonnaise and make it a little creamier, a little richer. If I want to make remoulade, if I want to make tzatziki, I'm probably going to add a little bit of mayonnaise to that sour cream or crème fraiche. Yeah, just a little, just a little for a little like.

• 7:09Joe Flamm?

  The Greeks are gonna be hot. Greeks are gonna be hot about that one. There, oh man, they're gonna be throwing sheep at you in the street for that fucking.

• 7:17Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yaya is coming for me.

• 7:20Joe Flamm?

  You know what I will say though, the other thing I was thinking about mayonnaise is even the worst mayonnaise. If you just go buy the cheapest no brand, if you buy the Kroger mayonnaise. It's good. You know what I mean? I'm not saying it's great. I'm not saying it's good. I'm not saying it's QP. I'm not saying it's a nice handmade aioli, but like it's good. It'll do the trick.

• 7:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  It will get it done.

• 7:43Joe Flamm?

  Say that for all condiments, like you know what I mean? Especially like in the spread world, like if you have like a bad hummus is gross.

• 7:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 7:49Joe Flamm?

  You're gonna be the bad tzatziki is disgusting.

• 7:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  You're right. And that's, that's I guess the thing that chefs know. And I was at a food festival this past weekend called the family reunion down in Virginia and there were a ton of chefs there and I went around and I asked a bunch of different chefs. I'm like chef, what is your favorite condiment? Because I was so surprised that mayonnaise was winning. I was so shocked. So I had to pull the room. I had to find out. And I was surprised at the, at the answers that I got. You'd be surprised how many people said mayonnaise, ketchup, you know, just, I was shocked.

• 8:22Joe Flamm?

  Ketchup I would also say is another mother sauce.

• 8:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ooh.

• 8:25Joe Flamm?

  Because barbecue sauce is a ketchup derivative.

• 8:28Adrienne Cheatham?

  Huh.

• 8:29Joe Flamm?

  So it's French dressing.

• 8:30Adrienne Cheatham?

  French dressing for sure.

• 8:32Joe Flamm?

  It's basically a ketchup vinaigrette. There's so many things that are ketchup derivative.

• 8:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Chili sauce.

• 8:37Joe Flamm?

  I'm claiming ketchup as another mother condiment.

• 8:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  We need to investigate this further.

• 8:42Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, this is like, I know it's a weird, like, this is like what I'm thinking about on my drive home at night.

• 8:47Adrienne Cheatham?

  I love it.

• 8:47Joe Flamm?

  By myself for like 30 minutes. I'm just like, so.

• 8:50Adrienne Cheatham?

  If I were a mother sauce condiment.

• 8:52Joe Flamm?

  Condiments are mother sauces. Why aren't they teaching this in culinary school? This is the problem with culinary schools today.

• 8:57Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, they're skipping over the 101s. But next up, after we have this bracket, which closed, mayonnaise won. It blew everything else out of the water. Hoisin had 6% of the vote. Saziki 14%. Mustard, 37%. Mustard had so much love in the comments. Mustard love in the comments was vocal. It was loud and proud. But then people got in that booth and it was just them and God.

• 9:21Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 9:22Adrienne Cheatham?

  And the vote went mayonnaise.

• 9:23Joe Flamm?

  And you know, it's like, you love about a good bracket, you know, you got the wild ones, you know, I feel like Hoisin's your Wichita State. You know, it's, you know, they're trying to make it, but then it's like, you know, you got mayo and mustard, which is like Duke and North Carolina at the top.

• 9:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Your Big Ten, right?

• 9:38Joe Flamm?

  You're not going to beat the blue bloods.

• 9:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  Nope. Next up, we have sweet and tangy. So we have ketchup, sweet chili, salsa and barbecue sauce. So speaking of, those are up next. I kind of think I know where your vote is going to go.

• 9:53Joe Flamm?

  I think you do. I think you should know. But not getting into the mother sauce thing. I'm off of that.

• 9:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay.

• 9:59Joe Flamm?

  That's not how I vote.

• 10:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  You're going on pure joy when you see this condiment.

• 10:03Joe Flamm?

  I'm saying like, you know, when I'm building this bracket, it's like, you have to get rid of the other three out of your fridge. So that's how I'm building this bracket in my mind.

• 10:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  I like that. I know where my vote's going. Now it's time to find out where the people land on this one.

• 10:17Joe Flamm?

  It's all about the people.

• 10:21Joe Flamm?

  How about a little fork in and forget?

• 10:22Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, yes. Let's do it.

• 10:25Joe Flamm?

  So I got one for you, and this is one I wanted to ask to you because it has to deal with where you reside.

• 10:31Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay.

• 10:32Joe Flamm?

  And I'm talking about New York, not Miami.

• 10:35Joe Flamm?

  But one thing I keep seeing, and I haven't had it yet, and I don't know if you have, but I feel like it is all over every food media thing I've read about New York in the last three, four weeks, is the French dip.

• 10:50Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, my God.

• 10:51Joe Flamm?

  It is French dip mania in New York. Like, it just landed from Paris, and you all are losing your goddamn minds.

• 11:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  We really are.

• 11:01Joe Flamm?

  About $27 French dip sandwiches.

• 11:06Adrienne Cheatham?

  I mean, dear, sweet baby Jesus, take the wheel. Okay, I grew up in Chicago. I am slightly biased. I love a sliced roast beef type sandwich. Put that situation together.

• 11:20Joe Flamm?

  No doubt.

• 11:20Adrienne Cheatham?

  Give me some au jus. You can call it au jus. You can call it just drippings, sauce, whatever you want to call it.

• 11:27Joe Flamm?

  You call it gravy, Adrian.

• 11:31Adrienne Cheatham?

  With some like-

• 11:31Joe Flamm?

  Adrian Winona Cheetum, you call it gravy like it is supposed to be called. Call it.

• 11:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Joseph T. Flan.

• 11:37Joe Flamm?

  Jesus.

• 11:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  So I do love, but I don't know. Like, I have to be in a special mood for that. I'm not just gonna lose my mind because somebody's creating a new French dip. It's like, I get it. A baguette or other crusty bread, some Swiss or provolone, if you're into the cheese on it, your sliced roast beef, some pickled veg, preferably Jardiner, like, I get it.

• 12:00Joe Flamm?

  But that's not, that's not, that's not what they're even doing.

• 12:03Adrienne Cheatham?

  No?

• 12:03Joe Flamm?

  It's a French baguette. They're doing French dips. There's no, there's just caramelized onions on it. Like, I was looking at the Salt Hank one. That's the one everybody's losing.

• 12:10Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, yes, yeah.

• 12:12Joe Flamm?

  Homie's got a line of 300 people. They sell out by 2:30 PM. They only sell French dips.

• 12:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  Whoa, crazy.

• 12:20Joe Flamm?

  So people are waiting in line for an hour.

• 12:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  I'm not waiting in line for an hour for a damn sandwich.

• 12:25Joe Flamm?

  I ain't waiting in line for shit.

• 12:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  Especially like.

• 12:27Joe Flamm?

  Out your goddamn mind, waiting in line an hour for a sandwich? Like, listen, that sandwich looks so good.

• 12:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  I'm gonna pull it up now, I haven't seen it today.

• 12:35Joe Flamm?

  I would eat it, I would fork eating that. But like, for me, the whole point of a sandwich is I want sandwich, you give me sandwich. It's a fairly quick interaction. You know what I mean? Especially like, yeah, like for me, a beef, it's like, yeah, give me that hot dipped, toss me it.

• 12:53Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 12:53Joe Flamm?

  That's a forty-five second interaction. You go baptize that beef for me, you dip it on, you throw it on the bread, you dip that whole fucking son of a bitch in there. Throw some jarred on top, I get the elbows up, you put that bad boy down in about three, four minutes, you go have a day.

• 13:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, a sandwich is a fast thing. I, I shouldn't be spending my whole afternoon ordering a sandwich.

• 13:14Joe Flamm?

  That's, that's, that's my real forget it with it. It's like, I'm not waiting in line for an hour for a sandwich.

• 13:21Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 13:22Joe Flamm?

  It looks really good. It looks really good.

• 13:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  It does. I was, I was pretty interested in it. I saw it before, I saw it a couple of days ago, but I had never thought like in my mind, oh, I'm gonna go and stand in line and get this sandwich. I was just like, oh, wow, people are losing their minds over this sandwich. Cool, have fun. Tell me how it is.

• 13:38Joe Flamm?

  Losing their minds.

• 13:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  So my thing with it, the reason it's a forget it for me is mainly because I am not gonna stand in line an hour for a sandwich, I agree. But also because I have a hard time with sandwiches that are built on baguettes. When you bite down on a baguette, like I, I'm tearing up the roof of my mouth. It hurts. I like my, my joy of eating a sandwich not to come with the bloody torn up roof of my mouth.

• 14:06Joe Flamm?

  Sure. I mean, well, that's what it's you, is you're, you're dipping it, you're softening it up for your delicate palate.

• 14:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  For my deli, my soft little delicate palate. But maybe it's like Leidenheimer bread in New Orleans when they make po'boys. It looks crispy, but it's actually more soft than you would think. So I don't know. You know, I'm not gonna knock it till I try it, but I'm gonna have to have like a Task Rabbit or somebody stand in line.

• 14:30Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, miss me, miss me with that line. Like, that's why it's a forget it for me. I'm not waiting in line. I'm not waiting in line for, you know, I'd be like, you know, sometimes it's the burgers or the, whatever viral thing where they're like, oh yeah, I'm gonna go wait in line for an hour for this thing. It's like, I'm not.

• 14:44Adrienne Cheatham?

  No, no, but you know what?

• 14:47Joe Flamm?

  I'm happy, listen, I am happy for that dude. I'm happy you got a line, dude. I'm happy you are selling out every sandwich every day.

• 14:54Adrienne Cheatham?

  Hell, yeah.

• 14:54Joe Flamm?

  But when you figure out how to do that shit to go and I can just pick one up.

• 14:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 14:58Joe Flamm?

  Like holler at me.

• 14:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  Or I can order it on Postmates.

• 15:01Joe Flamm?

  Right. Then I'll, then I'll cough up thirty bucks for a French dip.

• 15:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yep. Let me know.

• 15:05Joe Flamm?

  And tell you it needs charge.

• 15:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  Well, okay. So we know where we stand. I'll fork it. I'll, I'll pay somebody to stand in line and bring a sandwich. And it better be better than any of, you know, of the beef sandwiches that I grew up eating in Chicago. But I'm, I'm gonna fork it. I'll fork it.

• 15:23Joe Flamm?

  See, I also will say though, I'm a dip beef person though, too. So people like, oh, it's too soggy. But it's like, you gotta understand, I feel like there's certain foods, it's like, you just gotta, once you pick it up, you, you don't put it down. When you're properly eating it, properly like dip beef, it's like you pick it up, you put that thing down when you're done.

• 15:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  You have to get the, there's a proper hold for this. You hold it, left hand on the top, right hand on the bottom.

• 15:46Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 15:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  And you take a bite here. Right, right.

• 15:48Joe Flamm?

  Get the lean going. Get the lean going so you don't drip it on you.

• 15:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 15:52Joe Flamm?

  Lean over the tray, but once you put it down, it's over.

• 15:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:55Joe Flamm?

  Everybody, everybody knows the rules.

• 15:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  At that point, it's gonna be like you're, you know, making tacos with the bread to try to pick up the beef on there.

• 16:02Joe Flamm?

  You, you pick that beef up, you're committing.

• 16:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes, to eating the whole thing.

• 16:06Joe Flamm?

  It's not a meal you have a conversation during. You're just eating a beef. Someone's there with you, they're just, they're just eating a beef with you. But you don't put that thing down.

• 16:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  You, you occasionally look over and say, mm-hmm.

• 16:17Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. Where it's like sitting there dipping all day. I don't know. Yeah. Forget it. Forget it. I'm out.

• 16:21Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay, I'm a fork it. I'm a fork it. But it better be damn good.

• 16:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  Next up, Joe, how about we take it over to review, review?

• 16:31Joe Flamm?

  Oh.

• 16:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  Now, we've been beating up a lot on diners and it's, it's been very one-sided. You know, we, we've been venting a lot of our frustration at the expense of people that we love. You know, there are a lot of great diners out there and that's not us. Like, we're generally. Positive, I choose happiness type of people. I mean, sometimes we choose violence, but you know what? Let's go back to being us, Joe.

• 16:56Joe Flamm?

  We try not to choose the violence. It's the people they want us to.

• 17:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  Violence chose us.

• 17:01Joe Flamm?

  They want us to. But yes, I agree. It's like, you know, I will say 99% of the people who come through my doors every day are awesome. I love the people I meet. I love the interactions. It's why I love this industry. I know it's why you love it too.

• 17:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Mm hmm.

• 17:14Joe Flamm?

  It's one of the greatest gifts we get in this industry is that we get to meet new people every day, that we have regulars who, you know what I mean? Are so close to us, they're like a part of the team.

• 17:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 17:23Joe Flamm?

  So, so I'm with you on that. I'm here for a little positivity. What do you got in mind?

• 17:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  So for that, I mean, I've, I've had some amazing interactions with guests over the years. I've seen guest behavior at restaurants. I'm like, oh man, like they're just, they're great. You know, and those aren't the people that stand out. Unfortunately, it is the one star behavior that stands out. But let's give a little love to our five star diners, Joe. So tell me a review, review of a five star guest that you've had at one of your restaurants.

• 17:54Joe Flamm?

  You know, I'll give you one from recently because this is, this was a five star experience. It's just one of those cool restaurant things, but I, I want to share it with you. So I had a guy come in another night, it was two weeks ago and walked up to the pass. And he was like, hey, you know, we really enjoyed everything. He's like, I don't know if you remember me. He goes, I brought you tomatoes. And I go, yeah, you brought me those really, really great tomatoes. And he's like, oh, I almost have them again. And then we went a little further down that road. And he goes, I bought you tomatoes because the first time I ate at Rosemary, I had just finished chemo for brain cancer.

• 18:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  Wow.

• 18:35Joe Flamm?

  And we came in and I told you if I came back, I'd bring you tomatoes. And I wasn't sure if I'd come back.

• 18:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh.

• 18:43Joe Flamm?

  And so I brought you the tomatoes and I just, I'm here again and wanted to tell you that I'm still here. And he's like, and I'm going to bring you tomatoes again. And I like almost started crying at the pass. Like I was like, this is just. One of those cool things in restaurants. It's like, I don't know this guy. I don't know his name. You know what I mean? I know him as the tomato guy. I've met him now three times in my life, but it's just like that. He has that connection with my restaurants in that space because it was such a weird, such an important part to his life, right? You know what I mean? And it's like, it's so easy for us to look at like, oh, we're just cooking dinner every night. We do this every night and it's not different for us. But you forget that like, we try to remember that everybody coming through the door, like this might be a really special.

• 19:28Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 19:28Joe Flamm?

  This might be a really special night. This might be the first time you've seen that person in four years. This might be whatever.

• 19:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  It might be the last time you see this person.

• 19:36Joe Flamm?

  A hundred percent. And so, you know, it was one of those really cool moments that like it's simple as what we do. And it's difficult to people as we deal with sometimes. It's just like when you're able to create those moments for people where it's like, when that guy thinks of rose marrying, you know what I mean? That's what he thinks of. He thinks of like, I'm still here.

• 19:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 19:56Joe Flamm?

  I'm still fighting. And it was like, man, I was like, fuck.

• 20:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 20:02Joe Flamm?

  This is cool. This is the stuff where it makes it every crazy person doing weird shit or like, you know, sending me crazy emails. It's like, this is what, I'll take a thousand more of those crazy emails to get one interaction like this. So that was, that was five stars. That was a hundred stars. That was, and also the tomatoes he brought me. I remember them because they were awesome. They were from his garden. So I really hope he does bring me some more. They were super good. I love when people bring me vegetables.

• 20:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes.

• 20:26Joe Flamm?

  Like it's when people bring me vegetables from their home gardens. That's, that's always a bit major, major plus of my book of, of five star behavior. Like, hey, I had extra of this. And I'm like, oh, sick.

• 20:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 20:36Joe Flamm?

  Cucumber.

• 20:37Adrienne Cheatham?

  That is so beautiful. And that's the thing, like we take it, like you said, sometimes we take it for granted, how much a dinner out can mean to people, but that is such a beautiful experience to, to have. And like, I'm, I'm about to start crying. Like that is so cool.

• 20:51Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. So that was, that was my cool recent five star gas for a little, a little positivity for you. You know what I mean? Little, little brighten up, bubble up your day.

• 20:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  I appreciate that. You know, I have hope for the world after hearing stuff like that.

• 21:05Joe Flamm?

  Gives you, gives you a little joy, a little hope with it.

• 21:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  Like I said, recently, this past weekend, I was doing the food festival, the Family Reunion. And that was down in Virginia. And I bring a different sous chef with me every year in hopes that these people make relationships with all these other chefs. And the Family Reunion is put on by Food and Wine Magazine. It's Kwame Onwachi and Sheila Johnson, and it's hosted at the Salamander Resort outside of DC. So it's 240 bucolic acres with like horse stables on it and rolling hills, and it's absolutely gorgeous. And you have some of the top chefs in the country coming together for this weekend.

• 21:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Everybody from like pit masters like Rodney Scott, Brian Furman, Rashid Davis, all the way to like Eric Williams from Virtue, Naisha Harrington. Friend of the program. Tiffany Derry, Gregory Gourde, Kwame Onwachi and his teams are there from his restaurants. Like you have so many, I want to say there's like 20 something chefs there. And everybody is eating meals together, hanging out together, prepping in the kitchen together, mingling with the guests all at the same time. Like it's not standoffish like some of the food festivals where the chefs cook food and then they go hide at their own parties and stuff like that.

• 22:27Joe Flamm?

  Well, I think also, you know, when you're talking about this, it's like a lot of those food festivals, right? Like they put us all over the place. You're not all at one place usually.

• 22:35Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's true.

• 22:36Joe Flamm?

  Like, and it's, I've done a couple where everybody's at the same place and it's a riot because it's got like, almost like, I always feel like it almost is like a college town vibe to it. It's like, it feels like a Saturday game day in a college town, but instead of a bunch of football players, it's a bunch of chefs. So you're like walking around, you're like, oh my God, there's, you know, Lamar Moore, there's, you know what I mean?

• 22:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, he's there, yeah.

• 22:56Joe Flamm?

  You know, like all these people in this like small little center and you're all hanging out there.

• 23:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  It is so freaking amazing and most of the chefs are black, not all, but most of the chefs there are black. And to have that camaraderie, because most food festivals, there might be two black people, there might be four women, you know, kind of thing. So this is like, we all get to get together, share stories, talk about TV shows that are hiring, restaurant groups that are looking to invest, like all kinds of different things. And one of the things that I do, like I said, every year, I bring a different sous chef who has not had a chance to be in these rooms with all of these amazing people. So if you want to go into food styling, television, restaurants, operation, being in the front, there is somebody here who can help your career.

• 23:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  So last year I brought my sous chef, Khalil Hasty, who I'd known since he was at CIA. And he staged at La Bernardine and kept in touch with him for years.

• 23:54Joe Flamm?

  This was when you were working for the CIA?

• 23:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  Uh, you know.

• 23:59Joe Flamm?

  DOJ or what?

• 24:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  Hush, Joe. You know, seriously, you're gonna get me in trouble. But Khalil came with me last year and got hired by Kwame and his team. Kwame's like right-hand guy named Paz was like, man, this guy is awesome. I'm like, he's at the win in Las Vegas. He works for Chris Lee, he's a chef tour not helping run culinary culinary operations there. They're like, oh, my God, we need to talk to him. He's going to be the CDC of Kwame's new restaurant in Vegas. So that's like, that's the kind of opportunities.

• 24:33Joe Flamm?

  It's about, you know what I mean? It's about creating opportunities for people. You'll be getting them in the right rooms around right people.

• 24:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  Exactly. And this year, when, as soon as, it's funny, I had posted on social media like, oh, I'm invited back to the family reunion. We all do these posts on the same day. You were the first person who hit me up. I had like six people text or email me or DM after like, can I be your sous chef? You were the first message that came through that was like, I will pay for my sous chef Taquan to come with you to the family reunion. And I was like, oh, my God.

• 25:06Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I mean, it's only because I didn't think you would bring me.

• 25:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  I would have, but you don't fit in my suitcase.

• 25:14Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, that's true. Get bigger bags.

• 25:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  But Taekwon came with me and he killed it. Oh my God, he killed it. And he was such a joy to work with. He was so excited. He met so many people and I got so many compliments on you, number one. People were like, man, love the podcast. You and Joe are great. And I'm like, oh, well, by the way, this is Joe's sous chef. And they're like, wait, Joe sent his sous chef to work with you? I'm like, yeah. And we planned this before we even started the podcast.

• 25:44Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, way before.

• 25:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, way before. So I mean, just to show like how you invest in your team and how you mentor people. And I know Taekwon has been with you for a while now. And he's a sous. Is he a senior sous at Rosemary?

• 25:57Joe Flamm?

  Uh, he's a exec sous at Rosemary.

• 25:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  Nice. So he's been with you for a while and I noticed that there's different types of people in restaurants. And this kind of made me think about it this past weekend. In restaurants, there are people who want to get a restaurant on their resume. So they go to work there just to check the box. They want to do one year to the date, quit and go somewhere else. There are also people who work at a restaurant because they want to learn from that chef. Taekwon wanted to learn from you. He could have learned, you know, Croatian. He could have learned Italian. He could have learned food in other places, but he chose to work for you because he wanted to learn from you as a chef.

• 26:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  So how do you identify those people like Taekwon that are coming up in your restaurants? And know that those are the people that you're going to mentor. So you know what? I guess this is kind of our mentor moment brought to you by the San Pellegrino Young Chefs Academy.

• 26:58Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I mean, I feel like one of the greatest privileges we get is being able to be a mentor to people. And I don't think you get to choose those people at all. I think they choose you. Like I can't decide who's going to buy into my particular brand of crazy. You know, Taco did, Taekwon did. You know what I mean? Like he, he's been with me for over four years. He started as a line cook and He was a person who bought it and it's like, I try to put as much as I can into everyone. And then some people just take it more. And I always try to tell them like, I know what I need out of you. Right? This is how this exchange works. I know what I need out of you. You have responsibilities. You have a job and it's my job to get that out of you.

• 27:43Joe Flamm?

  And I'm pretty good at that, so I'm going to get it. But the more you tell me what you want out of this, the more we can make it a two way street.

• 27:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes.

• 27:51Joe Flamm?

  The more you can verbalize your goals to me, the more you can, you know, know them to yourself. You can write them down, put them on paper. The more you can communicate that, the better this relationship is going to be for you. Because then I not only have my goals for you, but I know what your goals are for yourself. And if I know what those are, I can help you get there.

• 28:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 28:12Joe Flamm?

  And I'm open to it and I want to put you in a position to get there. And I'm, you know, I'm so fortunate. I have incredible chef de cuisines, you know, Jojo running Boulevard. I have Trevor running Curchofo Christine, who runs Roseberry, who, you know, Taco Works for. And it's just these people who have bought into the idea of what we're doing, bought into the culture. And, you know, when you're fortunate to get some people like that, and sometimes you have people where it's like, you think they're in, you spend a ton of time and energy on it and then they're out. And then, you know, and not just like out to go cook somewhere else, but like, maybe they're done cooking or they're out of the industry or whatever happens. And I think the biggest thing is like, you can't get discouraged with that.

• 28:53Joe Flamm?

  Like I get so much joy and fulfillment out of helping people grow and progress and develop and be better.

• 28:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 29:00Joe Flamm?

  That like, if I have somebody where it doesn't work out and I feel like I've put so much time and energy into it. I finally get to a point where they're really, really doing well. And then they dip. It's like, well, okay.

• 29:10Adrienne Cheatham?

  But that's, yeah, and that's part of mentorship.

• 29:12Joe Flamm?

  Be okay with it. You have to be, you can't be like, you know, it's like, oh, somebody broke up with you. And it's like, oh, I'm never going to love it.

• 29:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 29:19Joe Flamm?

  You know, because it's the same thing. It hurts, you know, you take this stuff personally. It's a relationship that you have with these people. You spend so much time on them. You spend some, you put so much energy into them.

• 29:28Adrienne Cheatham?

  Mm hmm.

• 29:29Joe Flamm?

  And I think, you know, as a cook, you don't realize that until you're on the other side and you're a sous chef or you're exec sous or you're a CBC or, you know, you're running a place of like, How much time and energy it takes to help someone develop?

• 29:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right. It's, it's very much like parenting. I mean, I'm not a parent, but like in a way, it's kind of like you're helping these people grow and develop. And when I was growing up, my mom always said, my goal is to make you a productive, independent member of society.

• 29:57Joe Flamm?

  Right.

• 29:57Adrienne Cheatham?

  And I was like, but you love me, right? She's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love you, but you need to be. And so I always took that kind of approach with, with cooks when I was in restaurants. Like I want you to grow and develop and be better than me.

• 30:10Joe Flamm?

  Right.

• 30:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  Be better. I want my whole goal in mentorship with all of the chefs and people that I've kept in touch with over the years. I'm just here to help you avoid the mistakes that I made. That is my goal.

• 30:22Joe Flamm?

  Right. And I think that's the goal, but for me, I think it's also like, I want to give you a skill set. That I want you to be able to take care of yourself.

• 30:31Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right. Yes.

• 30:32Joe Flamm?

  Like I want you to be able to, if you so choose, that this is your path. This is your career. I'm going to try to give you as many skills and everything possible. Like we always talk about, it's an investment in yourself. So now I'm just helping you build brand equity. Where it's like, I want you to be able to make money for the rest of your life. I want you to be able to have a good living. I want you to be able to buy a house. I want you to be able to have kids. Do whatever you want to do with this.

• 30:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 30:56Joe Flamm?

  You know what I mean? So giving you enough skills where it's like, you can make real money doing this and you could grow.

• 31:03Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah. And people can come to you with knife skills. They can know how to cook. They can have a decent background in culinary experience in kitchens, but they don't always know the business side, or they don't know how to create a culture or manage people.

• 31:19Joe Flamm?

  Right.

• 31:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  And when Taekwon was with me at the family reunion, he said, you know, one thing I've never done is open a restaurant. I'm like, okay. He's like, you know, how, you know, putting together some of the documents, what to expect. Those are things that I've never done in my career. And I, you know, I find that really interesting because I don't know what goes into it. So I spent the first day putting him in touch with Khalil, because I knew he had opened a bunch of restaurants for other chefs. I put him in touch with Paz, who works with Kwame and does all of his operations. And I'm like, talk to these people. They will tell you and Khalil was like, just know your life is gonna suck for six months. But whatever it is, it's like tangible things too, like set up the stations, how you think they're gonna go,

• 32:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  but don't be afraid to change. And so I think that he got so much out of that, just speaking with so many people. And I can see why you mentor him and why you put so much time into developing him as a sous chef, because he wants that knowledge and he wants to grow. And I think that's a big part of knowing who you're gonna invest that time in.

• 32:23Joe Flamm?

  And that's it. It's, I think you just nailed it. It's like the biggest thing for me that I always talk about with my chefs is like, we can teach anything, but you can't teach want. I can't make you want this.

• 32:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 32:36Joe Flamm?

  There's nothing I can do. If you don't want it more than I want it for you, there's nothing I can do.

• 32:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yep.

• 32:43Joe Flamm?

  Right? But if you want it, if you really want it, I can work with you on anything. I'll get you there. And if I can't, I'll put you in front of a room of people who can't. You know what I mean? It's like, I can't get Taekwon to the family reunion. I don't have an invite. I can't be there.

• 32:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  We gotta get you there.

• 33:00Joe Flamm?

  But if you wanna be there, I can get you there.

• 33:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 33:03Joe Flamm?

  Like, I might not be that guy, but it's like, I know some motherfuckers who are.

• 33:06Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 33:07Joe Flamm?

  So it's like, I'll get you in the room. And it's like, and I'm not trying to train you to be the best sous chefs or the best chef to cuisines. It's like, I'm trying to train you to be a chef owner. I'm trying to train you to be a restaurant operator.

• 33:20Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yep.

• 33:21Joe Flamm?

  And if you don't want to do that, that's totally fine.

• 33:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 33:23Joe Flamm?

  But at least you'll know you can. I don't want you to not do things because you feel like you can't. And if you really want it and you really wanna push like,

• 33:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  Let's go.

• 33:33Joe Flamm?

  I'm down.

• 33:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  Go. I pushed Taekwon to, to his limit, I think, this weekend in terms of repetition. Because I firmly believe that repetition is only mindless if you're not paying attention. Every time you do something, you should be getting better and better at it. And that was what a chef taught me when I was younger. And you should be paying attention every time you're doing something so that every little detail improves each time you do it. And so Taekwon was with me and we made 1,125 lobster beignets.

• 34:09Joe Flamm?

  That's a shit.

• 34:10Adrienne Cheatham?

  I mean.

• 34:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  We made the filling, which is kind of like a, you know, Spanish croqueta. So you take a light roux, saute the aromatics and it's a ton of trinity, onion, celery, green bell pepper, chopped lobster, worcestershire, just love, tons of love. That's the base of it. So we had this super rich creamy sauce. We had to freeze it onto like 14 sheet trays. Freeze those, cut them into squares, skewer each square, dip each square into the batter and fry each one individually, par fry, because before service they get fried again. So they're super crispy and hot inside.

• 34:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  But can I tell you, it took us a day and a half to par fry.

• 35:02Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 35:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  1,125.

• 35:04Joe Flamm?

  1200?

• 35:07Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, this is why you didn't bring me. I would have been like, you're doing, we're doing fried beignets for 1,200 people.

• 35:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yep, individually fried.

• 35:12Joe Flamm?

  This is the dish you wanted to do?

• 35:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yep, you're welcome.

• 35:16Joe Flamm?

  No, but he said it was awesome. He's like, I loved it. He's like, Adrienne's a real one. She, she, she's like us, man. She gets in there and she just.

• 35:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  Can't stop, won't stop.

• 35:24Joe Flamm?

  He's like, it was the best. So thank you for that.

• 35:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  No, thank you. He was amazing.

• 35:28Joe Flamm?

  Opportunity and he, he had an absolute blast. I couldn't speak highly enough about the whole event. Um, and how special it was and Kwame and his team, he said how incredible and pause. He had really, really great things to say about him. So that was cool.

• 35:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  Joe, I think it's time we take it to walking confessions.

• 35:47Joe Flamm?

  So I got something a little different for walking confession this week.

• 35:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ooh, what do you have?

• 35:50Joe Flamm?

  So I'm bouncing back from vacation. Um, I just, I take a week every year, right before school starts, we go out of town with the kids. And we go up to like a lake house. And so I was kind of thinking about the chef confessions of what we bring when we go places.

• 36:06Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh.

• 36:07Joe Flamm?

  We like to pretend that we're not like the most extra ever about.

• 36:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  Like we're not divas.

• 36:14Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, but it's like, one of the first things when I was packing up to leave a week ago, like Thursday night, I was like, alright, what is the kitchen stuff I'm bringing with me? Cause we drive, right? So it's like an hour plus drive.

• 36:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay, I was gonna say, that's very different than flying.

• 36:29Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I'm not flying down to Miami, uh, but you know, so when I'm just driving, I can't go somewhere, even if I'm going somewhere and I'm cooking. If somebody invites me over for dinner, they're like, okay, we're gonna cook. It's like, I can't show up arm swinging.

• 36:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, oh, really?

• 36:47Joe Flamm?

  I can't, I don't, like, I'm like, I have to have a couple of things like on me.

• 36:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  Equipment wise, like you don't just bring wine?

• 36:54Joe Flamm?

  No, I'm bringing equipment.

• 36:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, dear.

• 36:56Joe Flamm?

  I'm like, I'm packing it offsite.

• 36:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  Are you, are you a diva? Are you an equipment diva?

• 37:02Joe Flamm?

  I don't know if it's a diva, I'm prepared, alright? I'm prepared, I'm ready to go.

• 37:07Adrienne Cheatham?

  But they're gonna have knives and equipment, so you're only bringing your own if you don't trust somebody's equipment.

• 37:14Joe Flamm?

  A thousand percent.

• 37:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  I never pegged you as high maintenance Joe.

• 37:19Joe Flamm?

  Listen, I'm just really well prepared. It's not high maintenance, it's being prepared. How many times have you been at somebody's house, you're like, man, wouldn't it be nice to just have a really sharp knife here?

• 37:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, yeah, and I talked.

• 37:31Joe Flamm?

  Especially, it's like, I was there for a week, go a week without a sharp knife or appropriate salt. Like, I have a box of salt at my friend's mom's lake house. She's like, tried to send it back. I'm like, no, that stays there now. Cause you can have appropriate salt at your lake house. So now it's like, whenever, and I was there, you know, a couple of weeks ago, and I was like, my, my salt's still here, right? She's like, yeah.

• 37:54Adrienne Cheatham?

  You're welcome.

• 37:55Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I was like, nice. I went and get the diamond kosher crystal salt and you know, so I can make dinner. So I can make it nice. You know what I mean? It's like, if we're gonna do it, like, I love cooking on vacation, you know, like, cause it's like, you actually have the time to do it, right? So you get to grill, you get to hang out. So for me, what I have to pack is I always bring a knife.

• 38:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay.

• 38:13Joe Flamm?

  I sharpen it right before I go, so.

• 38:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Nice.

• 38:15Joe Flamm?

  Nice and sharp, ready to go. Then I always bring a pan of some sort. I try to bring a pan with a lot of versatility. So it depends on like, I'll plan my menu kind of in my head before I go for the week. This time, like, usually, years before, I brought like the big lake crusade. Like a really big one?

• 38:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  Twelve quart, twenty-four?

• 38:34Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, yeah, like oval twelve quart.

• 38:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, wow.

• 38:37Joe Flamm?

  Lake crusade, because like you're go, nobody has that.

• 38:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  You can pack stuff into it, so it's not like it's just taking up space in the car.

• 38:44Joe Flamm?

  Okay. Exactly.

• 38:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  I'm, I'm with that.

• 38:46Joe Flamm?

  Like if I was coming to see you in your condo and you're like, we're cooking, good chance my carry on is that lake crusade filled with stuff.

• 38:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  Uh, to be clear, we have a twelve quart oval lake crusade courtesy of my husband.

• 38:56Joe Flamm?

  In Miami or just in home?

• 38:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, no, in Miami, I have a lodge that I bought at Marshall's. That's about eight quart.

• 39:02Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, okay, okay. So you can go take that one to the beach and build a sand castle with it and I'll bring the real one for while we're doing work.

• 39:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  Well, I appreciate that.

• 39:10Joe Flamm?

  But so this year I brought like a, I brought a griddle.

• 39:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, no.

• 39:14Joe Flamm?

  Like that covers two burners.

• 39:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, Joe, you did not.

• 39:17Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, so they have pancakes in the morning. Uh, we had a night where a bunch of my friends came up, so I made like a whole al pastor pork shoulder.

• 39:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, nice.

• 39:25Joe Flamm?

  And then I took that griddle, I threw it on the grill and then I made quesadillas for all the kids on it.

• 39:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, awesome.

• 39:30Joe Flamm?

  So it's like there are twelve kids there, it's a lot of quesadillas.

• 39:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:33Joe Flamm?

  I'm cranking out quesadillas out on the grill.

• 39:35Adrienne Cheatham?

  Whoa.

• 39:36Joe Flamm?

  So like, that's a good one. And then I brought like, you know, the, the like proper like plancha spatula, like the long one with the perforated holes in it.

• 39:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  Like the long hamburger spatula?

• 39:44Joe Flamm?

  Uh huh.

• 39:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 39:46Joe Flamm?

  Brought one of those bad boys too. And it was only three things.

• 39:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Trust issues, Joe.

• 39:50Joe Flamm?

  Only three things. I brought those three things. I obviously brought a box.

• 39:53Adrienne Cheatham?

  Wait, wait, okay.

• 39:54Joe Flamm?

  A box of salt.

• 39:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  A knife.

• 39:57Joe Flamm?

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:57Adrienne Cheatham?

  Did you bring the lake crusade?

• 39:59Joe Flamm?

  Didn't bring the lake crusade this year, wasn't necessary, wasn't part of the menu. So we went plancha instead.

• 40:03Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay, so.

• 40:04Joe Flamm?

  Efficient packing.

• 40:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  And then technically you brought the salt, so four. You're bougie, Joe.

• 40:09Joe Flamm?

  I mean, the salt, you need salt.

• 40:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  You do need salt, it is necessary.

• 40:14Joe Flamm?

  So it's like, I either had to bring it or buy a box up there. So it's like, I had one, so I brought it.

• 40:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 40:19Joe Flamm?

  The other thing I always bring too, I will say, almost always, if you invite me over, is my own olive oil.

• 40:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, really?

• 40:28Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 40:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  Well, I'm gonna have to invite you over.

• 40:30Joe Flamm?

  A little olive oil snap.

• 40:31Adrienne Cheatham?

  Can I keep it?

• 40:32Joe Flamm?

  Yes.

• 40:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay.

• 40:33Joe Flamm?

  Hundred percent, I leave.

• 40:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  You don't just bring it over to you then and take it home with you?

• 40:37Joe Flamm?

  No, unless I'm going to my mom's house and then I'm like, okay, I live like seven blocks away. Like you're gonna, you know what I mean, like, I'm bringing this home with me.

• 40:44Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay.

• 40:44Joe Flamm?

  Uh, but like, pretty much everywhere else, it's like. Like I have olive oil and balsamic at my in-laws, but you know, I keep there. I had the box of salt.

• 40:53Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 40:54Joe Flamm?

  So it's like, you know, it's like you have your staples. So.

• 40:57Adrienne Cheatham?

  You have your go-bag.

• 40:58Joe Flamm?

  But like a vacation house, it's like I rent a house. So it's like, I can't keep anything there. So you gotta bring some stuff, you know what I mean? And I think it's, and then I go to the grocery store and I buy a stack of like bar抹 towels.

• 41:10Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, that's so nice of you.

• 41:12Joe Flamm?

  Because otherwise I'm gonna ruin.

• 41:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Destroy them.

• 41:14Joe Flamm?

  Dish towel.

• 41:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  Absolutely.

• 41:16Joe Flamm?

  In that place. Because it's like people, you know what I mean? It's like, I'm not using an oven then.

• 41:20Adrienne Cheatham?

  Mm hmm. Nope. Your towels will be burnt, oiled up and not fit for any other use.

• 41:27Joe Flamm?

  I'm using them on the grill. I'm using them for everything. You know, it'd be to burn it holes in them. Like these things are, yeah, like absolutely murdered when I'm done with them. So that's, that's my, my, you know, and it's like, it's a chill lake house vibe for a week, but it's like, I have to, I gotta roll in with some things. I, I, I will admit that, that it's like, I can't just like, I'm like, maybe I don't need to bring that. And I'm like, all I'm gonna be thinking about, I'm like, I'm gonna make somebody who's like coming up to visit, stop at my house. And like, get me a knife because like, I'm not gonna be able to stand it, or I'm gonna go buy a knife, or I'm gonna have to figure out like where to buy a whetstone to like sharpen all the knives in this house.

• 42:03Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:04Joe Flamm?

  Everybody's gonna be like, you're ruining vacation because you just spent four hours sharpening knives instead of hanging out at the beach.

• 42:10Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes, exactly. They would hate you. Okay. So way to plan ahead. So you're not that guy, that absentee vacationer. Um, but I love that your walk-in confession is that you're high maintenance, Joe. I would have never, never.

• 42:21Joe Flamm?

  I'm really well-prepared.

• 42:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  See, I've just usually taken the route of going to somebody's place and being like, you know, your knives suck, right? You know, your knives suck. You know, your knives suck. Cause I'm not, I don't know. I, I don't normally throw my knife kit in where we're going. Like if we're going to somebody's house, I'm like, oh, you have like good knives, right? They're like, yeah. And then you get there and no, they're not good knives. Or they were good knives when they bought them.

• 42:48Joe Flamm?

  Right.

• 42:48Adrienne Cheatham?

  Five years ago and they never sharpened them or, or had them sharpened. Just drop them off at like a Sur La Tab or Williams Sonoma or a knife store. There's people who do that.

• 42:57Joe Flamm?

  Right. Like, so like my aunt lives next door to my grandma. So like I sent her a nice knife. So I always know there's a nice knife like next door to my grandma's house when I need it, when I cook there.

• 43:06Adrienne Cheatham?

  Why don't you send it to your grandma? Why didn't Grandma Mary get one?

• 43:09Joe Flamm?

  Oh, cause I don't trust it in that house. There's too many people who go through there. So.

• 43:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay. Smart.

• 43:15Joe Flamm?

  But Teresa doesn't, she doesn't cook a lot. She really only cuts fruit with it. So it's like she doesn't beat it up. So it's in really good shape because it's only cutting like watermelon and pineapple and

• 43:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay.

• 43:25Joe Flamm?

  So I have stuff kind of squirreled away in places that I cook a lot so that I always know, you know what I mean?

• 43:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  That she'll be well equipped wherever you go. I like it. I like that, Joe. That's a good walk in confession that you're a diva.

• 43:39Joe Flamm?

  Just well prepared, Eric.

• 43:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  Just own it. Just own it. You're like the Mariah Carey of chefs.

• 43:43Joe Flamm?

  The Mariah Carey of if you invite me over to cook at your house.

• 43:47Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, that made my day. You're a diva. I'm here for it.

• 43:52Adrienne Cheatham?

  And you know what, Joe? I think that takes us to the end of today's episode. It has been a true pleasure to catch up with you and talk all things food and condiments especially. Another week of the chef's cut in the books.

• 44:06Joe Flamm?

  Uh, next leg of the condiment challenge coming, so don't forget to vote.

• 44:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes. Go to the chef's cut pod on IG and cast your vote for your favorite sweet and tangy sauce to see who is going to win this bracket.

• 44:21Joe Flamm?

  I am Joe Flamm and for Adrian Cheatham, this has been the chef Scott.

• 44:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  Life beyond the past.