Israeli Elections, & the VetBro Industrial Complex | EYES ON GEOPOLITICS

We break down Israel’s deadlocked election and coalition fight, what a possible change in government could mean for Iran policy, and the growing counterintelligence concerns around foreign influence, personnel cuts, and recent Iran-linked activity in Europe. We also discuss whether America has lost the initiative in the Middle East, the debate over restrictive rules of engagement during the War on Terror, and what lessons the U. S. military should actually take from 20 years of war. VAER Watches ⬇️ https://www.vaerwatches.com/theteamhouse get a free watch roll with your purchase. 20% for active duty, veteran, leo, & first responders Support the show on Patreon:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Jack's news outlet:⬇️ https://thehighside.substack.com/ Find Jon Hackett here:⬇️ Jon's Twitter: https://x.com/jonathanhackett Jon's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thejonathanhackett Jon's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0C5L659N5?ccs_id=e11a2062-f8d3-498e-bfd7-7d2f3869caf6 Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thejonathanhackett Twitter: https://x.com/jonathanhackett Find Marc P here: https://x.com/Mpolymer Find Andy Milburn here: Twitter ⬇️ https://twitter.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fandymilburn8 LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmilburn2023 Substack ⬇️ https://amilburn.substack.com/ Andy’s book ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/When-Tempest-Gathers-Mogadishu-Operations 00:00 – Start 00:58 – Israel’s Election Ends in a Deadlock 02:18 – How Israel’s Coalition System Works 03:27 – Could Israel Be Headed for Another Election? 04:16 – Arab Parties Suddenly Hold Major Bargaining Power 05:03 – What Arab Israelis Actually Want From the Government 06:19 – Israel’s Basic Law & the Question of Equality 07:16 – Can Either Side Build a 61-Seat Coalition? 08:48 – What Would an Eisenkot Government Actually Change? 09:37 – Netanyahu vs. Eisenkot on Iran 10:08 – Jared Kushner’s Role in Middle East Policy 11:04 – Inside the U. S. Security Relationship With the Palestinians 12:06 – Netanyahu’s Relationship With Kushner 12:42 – U. S. Military Officers & Foreign Influence Concerns 14:06 – How Does This Happen Without Counterintelligence Scrutiny? 14:27 – Strava, Wearables & Modern OPSEC Failures 17:33 – What Happens When FBI Counterintelligence Teams Get Cut? 18:04 – Offensive vs. Defensive Counterintelligence 19:14 – How Technology Has Changed Counterintelligence Operations 20:32 – Cutting Personnel With a Machete Instead of a Scalpel 21:30 – Losing Mandarin Speakers Inside the Government 22:41 – Iranian-Americans & the Failure to Use Native Expertise 24:14 – Why the U. S. Struggles to Identify Real Regional Experts 24:45 – The Books Intelligence Analysts Should Actually Be Reading 26:44 – What a New Iran Analyst Should Learn First 27:18 – Why Analysts Need to Read the Other Side’s Literature 29:02 – The Ugly American & Understanding Foreign Cultures 30:00 – The RAF Fairford Plot Returns to the News 30:21 – Suspects Go on Trial in the UK 31:16 – The Wider Network Behind the Fairford Case 32:04 – Iran-Linked Operations Across Europe 32:28 – Did a New IRGC Handler Rush the Operation? 33:36 – How the UK Network Was Structured 34:18 – Has Iran Lost Too Many Experienced Intelligence Officers? 34:59 – Sometimes Just Breaching the Base Is the Victory 35:24 – What World War I German Sabotage Can Teach Us 35:57 – Immigration, Brain Drain & America’s Talent Problem 37:05 – Why the U. S. Should Keep Iranian Scientists Here 37:43 – Operation Paperclip & Recruiting Enemy Talent 38:38 – Has America Lost the Initiative in the Middle East? 39:02 – The USS Abraham Lincoln as a Symbol of Strategic Failure 39:31 – “Escalate to Deescalate” & the Failure of Policy 40:14 – The New York Times on Special Operations Podcasts 40:58 – Why The Team House Avoids the Culture-War Trap 41:52 – Did America Lose Because We “Didn’t Take the Gloves Off”? 43:00 – When Rules of Engagement Really Were Too Restrictive 44:04 – The Eight-Hour Targeting Soak 45:01 – From Extremely Loose ROE to Extremely Restrictive ROE 45:50 – Why Different Battlefields Needed Different Rules 47:05 – When a Missed Drone Strike Reset the Entire Targeting Cycle 47:34 – “Restrike Authorized” 48:04 – Why Rules of Engagement Changed During the War 48:29 – McChrystal, F3EAD & the SOCOM Targeting Model 49:00 – Jessica Lynch & Early Iraq War Training Failures 50:36 – Army vs. Marine Corps Marksmanship Training 55:47 – Are We Learning the Right Lessons From 20 Years of War? 57:13 – Jack’s Upcoming High Side Story on Sudan 58:18 – Jonathan’s Next Writing Project 59:15 – Sanctions, Pistachios, Carpets & Iranian Saffron 1:00:35 – Is “Spanish Saffron” Actually Iranian? 1:01:26 – Syrian Aleppo Pepper & Sanctions Workarounds 1:02:12 – American Insurgent & the December 1 Deadline 1:03:14 – Closing Thoughts Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:00Speaker 03

  Producer, live, back up and forth. Oh, no.

• 1:07Speaker 03

  John Hackett's browser doesn't allow recording.

• 1:11Jack Murphy?

  I can't hear him now either.

• 1:13Speaker 03

  Me neither. Something happened. The NSA got him or something. I don't know.

• 1:17Jack Murphy?

  I told you.

• 1:18Speaker 03

  Come back in and out. John's probably got some super secret bullshit on his computer that doesn't allow it.

• 1:27Speaker 03

  He's a, he hates democracy.

• 1:34Speaker 03

  It says we're live, but I don't know if we are.

• 1:38Jack Murphy?

  It looks like it. Do you want me to check?

• 1:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what I'm doing right now.

• 1:42Jack Murphy?

  Okay.

• 1:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're live. We're live and alive.

• 1:47Jack Murphy?

  Okay.

• 1:49Speaker 05

  Don't let me reveal my browser protections to the world.

• 1:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, dude. Jesus.

• 1:56Speaker 03

  All right. Yeah, we're live. I'm listening.

• 1:58Jack Murphy?

  Cool.

• 1:58Speaker 03

  Cool. All right. Hey, guys. Welcome to another episode of Eyes on Geopolitics. We're here live on a Wednesday with John and Jack. Hi, guys.

• 2:06Speaker 05

  Hey, what's up?

• 2:07Jack Murphy?

  Hey.

• 2:09Speaker 03

  Um, we're just gonna free ball it. A lot happening. Obviously, we saw what happened with the Israeli election. Seems to be a deadlock. Uh, brother Bibi is up by a couple of seats in the Knesset. They, no party has 61 needed. I think it's like 51 Bibi, 47 Eisenkot, and 19 for the Arab Israeli parties. So they're gonna be working to make a coalition, but till then Bibi's still gonna be the, the prime minister until they figure it out or they do another election or God knows what happens. Um, I think it's, I think it's all safe to say that we're not really

• 2:50Speaker 03

  gonna hit Iran until after our midterm elections, which are next Tuesday. Uh, so it's gonna be a wait and see. And all the OSINT guys will be waiting to, you know, looking at what, what kind of hardware we're sending that way and whatnot. Um, try to, try to basically predict what's gonna happen. So we'll obviously all be monitoring the situation like good, good Americans do. Um, yeah. Your thoughts, guys? How are you?

• 3:19Jack Murphy?

  Hey, good. Well, uh, so I mean, I think we should start by pointing out Israel has a parliamentary system. Um, there's like 120 seats in the Knesset. The Israeli voters go and vote for political parties and then those parties choose who is gonna be the prime minister ultimately. Um, and they have to form a coalition because especially at least when no one comes out with a clear majority, which apparently happens pretty rarely in Israeli politics, uh, they have to form a coalition government. And that's basically where they are right now. Um, because neither side is capturing the majority of the voters. So I, I'm sure this next, you

• 4:00Jack Murphy?

  know, few weeks is gonna be somewhat nightmarish for the Israeli people as they try to cobble together a coalition. And if they can't, then it goes into like some sort of runoff election. There's like a mechanism for that as well. Um, so right now you have Netanyahu's party and then there's the Israeli center-right party. And then the, uh, the Arab parties took, I think, 17 seats in the Knesset, which is again, pretty rare, uh, as far as I'm aware.

• 4:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, and actually something that might happen, which is that there's a new election happened back in 2019. Uh, I was actually in Jordan when this was going on. We were trying to negotiate, um, a peace agreement with our friend Jared Kushner, who was over there trying to, if you remember the map that they produced at that time, there were these like little lines connecting Gaza on the West Bank through these like underground highways. And it was a complex thing. I'll just say that. Um, and at that time, they were trying to have elections in Israel. Um, in 2019, they had two elections, couldn't find a prime minister till the second time. Then 2020, the coalition collapsed. They had a third election in 11 months. Then 2021, they had their fourth election in two years. And then 2022, so like year sequentially, every single year up till 2022, they had five elections in four years. For this exact reason that you

• 5:12Speaker 05

  mentioned, Jack, because of the coalition politics is very challenging. And it is based on the UK parliamentary system where these blocks have to form voluntarily with each other. And right now it's unique because the Arabs actually have 19, uh, seats, which is historic. That's a very unusual. It means they have some bargaining power. Um, the thing is though, it's not that the Arabs have to agree with what Eisenkot and the rest of the coalition want, is that their interests have to align such that they're willing to put their differences aside temporarily to achieve something. And what they want is, there are a couple of like domestic things, because remember, 25% of Israeli citizenry are Arab Muslim. You know, that's, that's an important thing to know. That's a lot of people. It's millions of people.

• 5:55Jack Murphy?

  Eisenkot has said that he does not want to ally with the Arabs, but right now that's his only pathway to, uh, forming a majority over Netanyahu.

• 6:04Speaker 05

  Yeah. And if you look at the Arabs, like if you look at polls, like opinion polls of what do the Arab Israeli citizens want in Israel, you know, an outsider might think like, oh, there's Palestinian issues are like the biggest thing. No, that's not, that's not true. Actually, it's more about normal domestic issues like civil equality, for example. This has been a big problem even between Jewish populations. If you have Sephardi, Mizrahi, and Ashkenazi, there's a tiered system where Ashkenazim are the top, followed by Sephardim, and then way down below are Mizrahi. Mizrahi are Arab origin Jews who can't, who are actually uprooted from Arab countries like Iraq, Egypt, and so on. After 1948, the Israeli government paid per head for some of these people to be shipped to Israel to bolster the number of people over

• 6:48Speaker 05

  half the pop, around half the population are Mizrahi and Sephardim, which-

• 6:51Jack Murphy?

  The Filasha Jews and all those people also.

• 6:53Speaker 05

  Yeah. So there's, there's these different groups of people that have different interests, and there are specifically the Arab interests. They want, like I said, equality, which is a big ask, because even the Jews themselves do not have equality in Israel. So if the Mizrahi cannot be treated as equal Jews, how can you expect the Arab Muslims to be treated equal with the rest of the Jewish population, right? And if you remember back, and I believe it was 2019, Netanyahu pushed forward the basic law, because there's no constitution in Israel. It's a country that has no written constitution. The basic law basically said it's a Jewish state, it's purely Jewish. There is no, there's nothing else, right? But then again, you have this like 25% of the population that's like, what about us? You have Christians too, and Samaritans. Samaritans are a separate Semitic faith that we very infrequently discuss, but they live there too. You have

• 7:38Speaker 05

  Druze as well. So there's a lot of different even religions, not just Christian, Jewish, Muslim. There's other religions, minority religions, that have very little rights and are treated very poorly. The Druze, of course, are allowed to serve in the military and so on. But I'm mentioning all this nuance because that nuance plays into these smaller pockets of seats, like, uh, Rom party, for example, has seven seats. That could be enough to push the opposition block over 61, which 61 is what they need. So Rom has seven people. What about the joint list? There, there are Druze as well. There's, there's at least one Druze Knesset member by tradition. So, you know, that's another, like, there are these people with like these very small interest pockets that if you can get them to all kind of sit together on this coalition, you might be

• 8:20Speaker 05

  able to push it across. But right now, because there are so many Arab seats, 19, you have to have at least some Arab seats. There has to be some concession going on here. And it's true for Netanyahu's side too. They have 53 seats right now. You need 61 to get a majority. So like, that's eight more seats that Netanyahu also needs to find somewhere, right? So this is kind of a challenge where both sides are gonna have to do something about the Arab seats to actually push this thing across the line, or we're gonna have a 2019 through 2022 re-go, where we're, we're having like a waterfall of elections until we finally end up back with Netanyahu again. Because that's what happened then, is because Netanyahu kept pulling rabbits out of hats, the way that he was doing his coalition building, where you're like, how is

• 9:03Speaker 05

  that possible? This dude was like done. And suddenly there's one of these small pockets of seven seats in the coalition that was like, okay, we'll go with Netanyahu. And that's how he actually ended up continuing to allow the ultra-orthodox not to serve in the military, even though the law has changed and it's supposed to be enforced. They do serve in the military. You know, it's almost like 25% increase in military size, the IDF, if they were required to join, like they're supposed to join. Um, so there's a lot of this concessions that Netanyahu made to make it happen last time. But it seems like the concessions have been made. It's almost like, you know, you fired your bullet, can't get the bullet back. So now it's like, well, if he abandons the far right, the coalition can't be formed anyway. So someone's gonna have to move toward the middle on either side.

• 9:49Speaker 03

  Very exciting stuff. What does that mean? Even if Eisencoat, let's say he did. I wanted to say it in our group chat, but I don't want to get into a fight with people in our group chat on eyes on yesterday, but it's like if Eisencoat wins, it kind of goes from like genocide back to apartheid and that's supposed to be okay. That's at least that's what it seems to me, my dirty, you know, liberal mind.

• 10:12Speaker 05

  So Eisencoat, you know, he backs settlement blocks as a way of securing things. It's not more about like giving land to Jews. It's more about just like creating a security barrier essentially that would be challenging for bad actors to flow between, but that would of course make a de facto settlements permanent in some cases, which has been happening anyway. It's not like this is going to be a new thing that suddenly it's a new policy. It's like, this is obviously happening more now under Netanyahu it has been. He, the most important difference between Eisencoat and Netanyahu, in my opinion, as far as policy is concerned, is views towards Iran. Netanyahu verbally says regime change all the time and they're two weeks away from a bomb since 2003.

• 10:54Speaker 05

  And Eisencoat says, the regime can stay, but we need to negotiate with them on their nuclear program or do something about it to ratchet it down so that it's under control. So that's kind of the biggest difference that I see.

• 11:08Jack Murphy?

  Yes, separate but related to this topic. I've been reading Matthew Cole's new book, Princes and Thieves, which is really, it's about Jared Kushner, but it touches upon MBZ, MBS in the Emirates in Saudi Arabia. Eric Prince is wrapped up in all of it and it's a wild, wild story. I'm only like 25% of the way through the book, but I think it's worth reading if you guys pick it up. Just the connections that were made and the way Kushner went about conducting American foreign policy,

• 11:47Jack Murphy?

  seemingly unilaterally during the first Trump administration is, I guess shocking is the word you would use.

• 11:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was crazy. You know, like I said, I was there in Jordan during this time and most of that activity happened either in Jordan or Israel or both at the same time. And not a lot of Americans know this, but we actually have a three star command in the West Bank that trains the Palestinian Authority security forces. And that gentleman would frequently come to the US embassy in Jordan because he couldn't go to the embassy in Israel because of political sensitivity. So he had to cross over the border into Jordan to do his work, like his work with the US. Because he can't have a J Wix computer in the West Bank, so he's got to come over to us, right? And it's very fascinating to see how this all worked because Kushner could kind of come and go as he pleased. This was the same time that Rashida Tlaib tried to come and visit her dying relative and was denied entry into Israel despite being a senator, visiting on an official congressional delegation and so on.

• 12:42Speaker 05

  So very interesting to see that all happened where Kushner had like absolute access everywhere. And our three star military commander and a senator could not access the same location. And this unelected official completely outside of our political process is able to just waltz around and make policy for us that we don't get to choose or debate or talk about, right? And that had a big, I think, factor on why Netanyahu was able to pull those rabbits out of hats. Because Netanyahu was seen as a companion of Kushner. In other words, like a Kushner whisperer, and so that it helped get seats across the line.

• 13:17Jack Murphy?

  Netanyahu would like stay in the Kushner's house when he came through New York, New Jersey. So I mean, they're very close, like Netanyahu slept in Kushner's bedroom when he, when he visited.

• 13:28Speaker 05

  Hmm. Was Kushner there?

• 13:32Jack Murphy?

  I believe he had to sleep in the couch down in the basement. They opened up the bedroom for the prime minister of Israel, like sorry Kushner, I could sleep in the basement.

• 13:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, there's a lot of interesting stuff like that, like Spencer, what's his name? First name, the Colonel, Army Colonel.

• 13:49Speaker 03

  John Spencer.

• 13:50Speaker 05

  John Spencer, I think it was 2020, could probably look it up, but I remember he was active duty in the military. He was flown to Israel on Israel's dime, met with Netanyahu in a public like photography setup in Netanyahu's office, sitting in chairs together. I remember this photo because I saw it and I was like, how is this even possible? This is crazy. And he was there basically doing a PR campaign for Israel. And then when the Gaza, you know, happened, he was writing his book about, and also like, like, like rapidly defending what was going on in Gaza on behalf of Israel while he's active duty as an O6 in the army. Normally for any other state, you would be investigated. I mean, I was a counterintelligence agent, I'm telling you, like we would investigate dudes for like way, way less.

• 14:32Speaker 05

  And like for guys doing stuff in Thailand, they shouldn't have been doing on Liberty. We'd kick them out of the military. And then you got this dude over here sitting in Netanyahu's office, doing an official PR thing for Israel, for a foreign power that has recruited a US, multiple US citizens as assets over the years, by the way. John Pollard being one of them, who was actually during that same time period, John Pollard was welcomed back to Israel and you know, first of all, he was pardoned by Trump and then he was welcomed to Israel, given Israeli citizenship and so on. So very fascinating, these like kind of crossovers between

• 15:03Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:03Speaker 05

  these things that, that are attached to what Kushner was doing at the time.

• 15:06Speaker 03

  So let me ask you, how does an O6, active O6 Colonel able to do that without getting any kind of PP whack?

• 15:15Speaker 05

  Because people are, don't have the will. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there's no political will to do anything about it.

• 15:22Jack Murphy?

  And we've basically chopped counterintelligence down. I mean, no one even cares about that at this point.

• 15:29Speaker 05

  And I mean, guys running around with Strava watches in, in Crete or in Cyprus. You got guys on, on aircraft carriers running around with their Fitbits, giving away the location of the aircraft carrier. I mean, there's like so many opsec violations, so much counterintelligence failure. But there, and there was a, you know, a rumor that the reason some of those soldiers were killed at the beginning of the war was because of ad tech that had exploited. Yeah. So again, this is like opsec 101, counter intel 101. And we're just kind of like letting it happen and not enforcing it. And we're just trying to be this like quote unquote extralethal force that just doesn't know what it's doing. It's just kind of like tumbling down the hill and crashing into stuff as it's going down.

• 16:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's interesting. You mentioned the Strava watches and all those wearables and stuff like that. Like I said, if you're going to wear a watch, you should keep it analog. And that's why I choose Ver from my watches. You like that, Jack?

• 16:22Jack Murphy?

  That was perfect.

• 16:23Speaker 03

  Thank you, baby.

• 16:25Speaker 05

  Actually, that's okay.

• 16:27Jack Murphy?

  Love it too.

• 16:28Speaker 05

  When I was going through technical surveillance countermeasures training, that was actually something they brought up that the reason a lot of guys wear Rolex is because not, I mean, yes, it's fancy, but it's also because it's it's kinetic, like it's powered by your hand movement. And this means there's less of a power source there to power a device that's put into the watch. So even a watch with a battery, the battery can power a listening device that's also in the watch. So you're actually like giving the adversary a more complicated problem to solve if you have no battery in the watch. It's not impossible, but it is more complicated.

• 16:58Jack Murphy?

  Right, right.

• 16:59Speaker 03

  Having said that, at ver.com slash the team house, you can get automatic watches like that, that the fancy bougie Rolex's are, but they're not $10,000. They're extremely affordable from anywhere from 200 to a thousand bucks. You can get also solar power like this one and regular quartz movements as well. You can go to ver.com slash the team house and get a free watch roll with your purchase. And if you're an active duty veteran, law enforcement officer or first responder, you can get an additional 20% off there too. I'm only doing the ad read right now because we're going live and I can't splice it in now. So that's why I'm actually doing it. And it's a great deal. Like look at mine, mine's pretty dope. John's got a great one. Jack has a really cool diver as well.

• 17:41Speaker 03

  They have all types you like and they're actually affordable and they're cool watches, which is great to see. So ver.com, vaerwatches.com slash the team house. Links are in the description and the show notes if you're listening for a free watch roll with your purchase. And if you're a veteran, active duty, first responder or law enforcement officer, you get an additional 20% off. Please support us by supporting these people to help sponsor the show. Thank you, guys. I'll shut up now.

• 18:10Speaker 05

  Good segue.

• 18:11Speaker 03

  It's not easy to do them live. I'm not going to lie to you. Like when we did it, when we used to do the team house podcast live and we had to like shoehorn in our fucking ads, it would be really tough to do. So touche. I mean, I'm better at it than Jack, actually. I'm more float fluid. But that's okay. Jack will get better. He's always.

• 18:28Speaker 05

  Gender fluid.

• 18:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, that too.

• 18:31Speaker 05

  That too.

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  Pricing and control over repayment get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by ondeck or Celtic Bank. Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. Yeah, so I wanted to touch on a little bit of the counter intel stuff because you can hear a little bit of like reports from like the FBI like their counter intel like teams in their in their offices and their field offices are like dwindled down to like, you know, half, half strength and stuff like that. What like?

• 20:53Speaker 03

  How do we let that happen? Number one. And number two is like, what does that mean for the United States? National, like national security in general?

• 21:02Speaker 05

  Well, I will say that counterintelligence, you know, it's very nuanced. There's different functional areas of counterintelligence. And even in a really broad sense, there's offensive and sort of defensive. We don't really call it defensive, but there's offensive counterintelligence, which is like double agent operations. And there's like the more run of the mill, like is the base safe counterintelligence operations? And there's some obviously other stuff in between there. But working, so I was in the Marine Corps counterintelligence. We had a very like thinly staffed model where we knew both human and counterintelligence under the same person, whereas the army separated out counter intel and human to different people. And no offense to the army, but the army's counter intel is a mile wide and inch deep. And I'm sure people will be upset that I say this, but you know, I did multiple turnovers with army CI teams

• 21:47Speaker 05

  that were supposed to be the same level as us and they sucked like frankly. There were a couple of good dudes that I'd met, but that's because they were good human beings, not because they the training somehow made them that way. And the FBI also has this problem where, you know, you recruit a lot of people and they might not all be great. Or the operations you have, the the end states you're looking for don't require so many people. And technology increases in such a way that you don't need so many people on the backend. Like, for example, when I was with NCIS, we would do some operations through personas online that used to require a lot of people in like counterintelligence roles of various levels and types. Some support and some actually counter intel agents.

• 22:30Speaker 05

  And you don't really need that as much anymore because now you've got really deep technological tool access that you could actually have one guy running like 50 personas. And so it used to be like one person per persona. And actually you have to like turn over the persona when you'd come off shift, back on shift and like brief down what we talked about with the guy on the other side and like all this stuff. That is changing. It has changed very much.

• 22:51Jack Murphy?

  Assigned like a laptop, right? Like this laptop is Bob.

• 22:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, and exactly. So that actually has changed too, because now we use virtual machines. So I can have a laptop with 50 virtual machines. It looks like 50 different computers running at the same time inside sandboxes. Yeah. And and actually, one thing that I've I've worked on in the past was some some cover activity where actually we would work with data centers to make it so that they're like regionally distributed so that you don't even need a VPN because the thing doesn't even exist where you where it looks like it exists because of the way the structure is set up in the world. It's pretty fascinating. Using quantum cryptography and some other things as well. So like all that said, there is a degree of efficiency that can be captured by reducing the number of counter intel people. There's also a problem where you just take a hammer instead of a scalpel.

• 23:39Speaker 05

  So there may be like good intentions, bad execution here where they're like, oh yeah, we can rescue some efficiency or finance by cutting. But instead of cutting finely, they're just like going in there with a machete and chopping down the the office and be like, all right, we need to get rid of 15 chairs out of here. And I bet that's probably how it worked. They're like, how many people do we have staffed on these projects? Cut it by 10%. Instead of like, who by name should be removed and keep in here? Which takes a lot more resources and more monitoring costs and all this stuff. And as we've seen with the administration, the way they chopped down after Doge and things like that, there were there weren't many thoughts about by name, by chair, by operation, you know, by requirement. Instead, it was just like percentages, like how many can we cut it by?

• 24:22Speaker 05

  Right? So that that's what's concerning to me is that there were good intentions probably, but bad execution.

• 24:28Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, like, uh, one of the more disturbing things is how many Mandarin speakers have been cut. Not that there's many to begin with, but like I know one person in one federal agency, he was cut from his job fluent Mandarin speaker because, you know, the administration decided he was a libtard, probably because, you know, and I should point out that like, if you're going to fire everyone who was involved in the January 6 investigation, like almost the, I don't want to say the entire, but like the majority of the FBI agents got pulled off their cases and put on January 6 for those prosecutions. And they were they were told to do that. It's not like they had some partisan political motive in doing it. It was just their job that they were given. So a lot of people got canned for that.

• 25:13Jack Murphy?

  And then there's another person I was speaking to recently, and she also is a fluent Mandarin speaker. And um, she had a government position, would like to take new government positions. And apparently they won't even talk to her because her parents came from the mainland. And they escaped like Tiananmen Square, like they're not going back, you know? Just because of that, because she's ethnically Chinese, they won't, they won't speak to her.

• 25:39Speaker 05

  Well, this is the same with Iran too. There's a lot of Iranians in the military, not a lot, but there are Iranians in the military that are either discriminated against or like soft discriminated against, or just like not allowed to do stuff. Even though most of them, if not all of them, are here because of opposition to the regime.

• 25:54Jack Murphy?

  And they're victims of the regime.

• 25:56Speaker 05

  Right. They're more opposed to it than anyone in America ever could be. And yet we're treating them as if they're part of it. And it's crazy that we have all these exquisite counterintelligence mechanisms and ways to assess threats. And yet we can't even apply it in a way that's effective to get the best talent and the best seat against the threat. Instead, we have dudes who can't even read Farsi, thinking they know about Iran. And I've seen this myself many times, even in State Department, where like people have no clue. Because the only books they read were written by certain individuals at certain think tanks who have a certain point of view very much related to the earlier part of our conversation, coming from those places.

• 26:32Speaker 05

  Like Ken Pollak, for example, who shared secret information with IPAC while he was writing a book about Iran, doesn't speak Farsi and has a clear connection to another foreign power of influence, right? And those are the experts, quote unquote, experts, just like the team that was trying to negotiate with Iran on the US side back in 2015 with the JCPOA, there were nine Americans on that team as principals and eight of the nine were Jewish. And the thing is like, what message is this sending to Iran? First of all, second of all, where are the experts? You know, like real experts, because these dudes are coming in there with maybe some expertise from the position they're coming in, but they don't have the actual expertise that we need to to understand the nuance of the other side. And this has been kind of an issue within the the DOD, within the intelligence community.

• 27:18Speaker 05

  From, I guess, time immemorial, really, I mean, really, it was World War II when we actually started to figure out like, oh, we need actual Japanese speakers. And that's why we started recruiting missionaries. Because there weren't soldiers speaking Japanese because we wouldn't, we wouldn't allow them to join the military. And so we put them in concentration camps. So the only guys we had were missionaries like Mormons in Asia that could speak Japanese. That's actually how the Marine Corps Linguistics Program was founded was through missionaries, not Japanese people.

• 27:43Jack Murphy?

  I wanted to ask you, what are what are your thoughts about this book called The Twilight War, The Secret History of America's 30 Year Conflict with Iran, written by David Crist? I've heard that he's well regarded.

• 27:57Speaker 05

  I have not read it. But if it's like Ken Pollak's Persian puzzle, I have to thumbs down it. But I haven't read it, so I don't know.

• 28:04Jack Murphy?

  No, I don't know the thesis of the book. I know it came out and he's like, I was told that he was like this person in the bureaucracy that like came out, wrote this book and then disappeared again.

• 28:18Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah. The thing is like, there, there are a lot of people that write about these things, whether it's China or Iran or Russia. There are people who are Russian, Chinese, Iranian writing, and then there are everybody else. And for some reason, it's the everybody else written material that gets the big underlined posts. And the stuff written by the people who know what's going on get kind of sidelined as like, well, yeah, but you know, they don't really understand our politics, so we're not going to read it. And it's like, but yeah, they're they're telling you what's going on, though. You have, you need to read this.

• 28:48Speaker 05

  Like, there's a book called Iran, A History by Abbas Aminat. And Abbas Aminat was actually the Chair of the Iran Department at Yale University for many years. He's now he's like a professor emeritus. It's like the best book on Iran from like the 18th century till today. Everyone should read this if they're interested in Iran. I have never seen it discussed in government ever. And it's crazy because like it's far head and shoulders above any book written by your average think tank guy who's only writing that book because they're commissioned to write it over that one year fellowship that they have at Rand Corporation or whatever. Whereas this dude spent 40 years teaching this material at the PhD level at Yale. And he's Iranian. Like, I mean, it's like there's so such a chasm between what we think expertise is and what it really is.

• 29:32Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I see it here. Yeah, available now on Amazon. You can go pick it up. Iran, A Modern History. I'm going to put it on my list.

• 29:41Speaker 03

  I have a question. I have a question. I mean, like, let's say you're you're a bright eyed, bushy tailed analyst, CIA analyst, or DIA or whatever, intelligence analyst or officer, and you're about to get, you're you're putting, being put on the Iran desk. You're not being told to read this shit, this kind of stuff, like, or I hope you are, at least like for those people who are on the ground getting the intelligence and disseminating it.

• 30:06Speaker 05

  So the thing is, my opinion is if you're a junior analyst and you just got thrown on this thing, you're like, hey, you're the Iran guy now, the desk officer. And you're like, I don't know what that is. I call it Iran. And you're like, okay, step one, it's Iran. Step two, for every book written by a non Iranian about Iran, find in a book written by an Iranian about Iran. And there are many, and I'm not just talking about nonfiction. I mean, like, read literature. Read books that were written like in the 1980s, the 1970s, fiction. Because like fiction tells you a lot about how a culture is designed, what what they value, how they see the world, how they have conceptualized time, how they think about shame, guilt. These kind of things that are very nuanced and it's not, but it's not multipolar, like, oh, it's either shame or guilt.

• 30:49Speaker 05

  Like, there are interesting gradations here that are super important to understand if you're an intelligence officer, especially. Because you will understand better which buttons to press and which to avoid, where the vulnerabilities might be. What are things that we think are true, but they don't see it that way? Like, are we speaking two different uh tracks here? That stuff will start to reveal itself as you carefully distribute different sources. And my other thought is, I think a lot of junior analysts are afraid to read those books because they think they're either getting sucked into the other side's ideology. Or it's it's wrong to read it because they're not, you know, Iran is the enemy, right, to them. It's a monolithic view, or China, or Russia. Um, or there are people who are like, oh, you're just a junior guy. You don't know anything anyway.

• 31:30Speaker 05

  And they get discouraged. I see this a lot with Russian analysts, actually, getting put on Russia desk because Russia was our enemy for a long time. There used to be a huge deck of expertise on it, especially the early 2000s when guys had been in the Cold War, were still active duty in senior positions. And they would talk down to people on Russia stuff because I was I was doing Russia stuff when I first came in in 2003 or four. And they'd be like, oh, you don't know anything about Russia. Don't even try. And it's like, well, we kind of have to because you're retiring, you know?

• 31:55Jack Murphy?

  Right, yeah.

• 31:56Speaker 05

  Be more productive about this.

• 31:57Jack Murphy?

  It doesn't end once you leave. You know what I mean?

• 32:00Speaker 05

  Yeah. And actually, on my first JSOC deployment, uh, my team leader made me read The Ugly American. And he actually, all of us on the team had to read it. And then we had like a little book talk together about it. Um, because we were going to somewhere in Asia. And he wanted to talk about like, what did that book mean to us? And like, because The Ugly American, if people haven't read it, isn't just about the ugly American. That's one like archetype. But there are many other archetypes in the book, too. It's just The Ugly American is the worst. But there are other American types that are also bad, that are not like productive. If you're working with a partner or an ally, or you're trying to work with an adversary, like if you're doing offensive counterintelligence, you want to get a double agent. You need to kind of understand what they're thinking about, or else they're just not going to listen to you. They're going to see you as a problem or a threat. And you need to like, understand why do they care about what they're doing, you know?

• 32:45Speaker 05

  And then use that and manipulate that and then turn them, right? But you can't do that if you don't read their stuff. If you only read stuff written by ourselves, you're never going to succeed.

• 32:58Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, that's pretty, that's pretty interesting. Um. John, you wanted to talk about uh what was going on in the UK with the the guys that got arrested, uh, rearrested, I guess, uh, for the uh RAF. Fuck, what's, oh, it doesn't, the RAF base.

• 33:15Speaker 05

  Fairford.

• 33:16Jack Murphy?

  Fairford, um, yeah, from a couple of weeks ago.

• 33:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, really kind of interesting because so two of the guys just went on trial yesterday, their very first day on trial. That's why this is kind of in the news again. I was on BBC yesterday talking about it. And the two guys that were on trial were not part of the group of guys that were doing the surveillance outside the base. These guys were the ones in Manchester. If you remember, a few days after Fairford, there were guys in Manchester. One of them is in a wheelchair. The court drawings, if you look them up, are kind of like clearly approved by their attorney to make the guy look as vulnerable and like crippled as possible. So it makes it very hard for the jury to like be mad at him, right? Uh, and these dudes are not Iranian, by the way. They are foreigners from somewhere else in the world, but not Iranian refugees, mind you. Um, there are actually two Iranian UK dual nationals that were let on bail.

• 34:05Speaker 05

  So there's a total of nine guys right now. Okay, we have the name of one, two, three, three of them, and six of them are unnamed, right? So the guys that are out on bail, one of them was rearrested, the other ones are out. The dude that was in jail or on trial yesterday, the other guy that was captured with him was also let on bail. That was a UK Iranian dual national. There's a lot of like stuff happening in London, Manchester, Fairford. So if if listeners remember back in May, there was a guy arrested in Turkey by the MIT, which is Turkish CIA essentially, which is led by Hakan Fedan, a very close ally of the IRGC. And we've talked about on the show before about my thoughts on why he might have given this guy through rendition to the United States despite being aligned with that guy's handler.

• 34:50Speaker 05

  And it has to do with Turkish interests in Syria. That's my theory. Side story. Anyways, that guy, Sadi, was also indicted and he's now in trial in the United States. Sadi was handling guys in Europe and actually they successfully conducted 20 attacks under the name of HAI, H A Y I, uh, over from from February through May, when he was detained. He was detained, operation stopped. And I mentioned him because he was the main handler for operations going on in the UK and Europe at the time that killed people. There were fatalities. Then they stopped for a month or two and then they started up again and we have Raf Fairford at the end of September. To me, as counterintelligence agent, looking at this, there was a new handler that was appointed that took a couple of months to rapidly scale up contacts, but didn't get to vet them very well because of time pressures.

• 35:36Speaker 05

  Somebody was like, you need to find some people, you need to do something, you need to do this operation as fast as possible. Here's some money, go. And I think that's what happened and it got disrupted, obviously, because MI5 was watching it the entire time. So we're counterterrorism police, which is a branch of the UK uh police. And the interesting thing is looking at this, the way I'm looking at this, there's probably one individual. The Abdul Karim, 24 year old, who actually was in direct contact with the IRGC or the Hezbollah middleman that was in Iraq that was doing this, just like the previous gentleman I mentioned. The other guys were either unwitting or like quasi-witting. I don't think that they were in contact with their IRGC. And the reason I'm mentioning IRGC is because Prime Minister Burnham said that he was talking to the IRGC. So

• 36:21Speaker 05

  although I haven't seen the indictment because the way that British legal systems work, they don't really tell you very much. The fact that the Prime Minister said it kind of like points toward it probably being something that they've got evidence for, right, that they're willing to say it publicly.

• 36:34Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 36:34Speaker 05

  The other, the other individuals were not. Right? So only one of them is is charged with this 2023 uh, under this 2023 law about materially assisting a foreign intelligence service. That's Abdul Karim. The rest of them have like a variety of other chart lesser charges that are not so egregious. So it's very fascinating to see this like multi-cell network that was stood up in about two months after the initial cell, which was way more effective. Again, I said 20 plus attacks in like five months that killed numerous, like half a dozen people, right? If you remember, like, there was some some fires set that in Golders Green, they burned the ambulances, they stabbed some guys, you know, they're doing a lot of surveillance. So that was like a better run operation.

• 37:15Speaker 05

  But a lot of IRGC case officers and handlers and Quds Force and the intelligence organization were killed in the last eight months. So now you're left with like the lower guys who don't have any experience. It's like, if you were like a a brand new human collector, but then all the the category one top level dudes got whacked and they're like, hey, brand new guy, go run this like super sensitive operation. You're like, oh, what do I do? I guess I'll use WhatsApp to go recruit some dudes in London and pay them money. And that's basically what happened. Right? Because they actually, but they wired them 500 pounds to go get that vehicle and like send the vehicle up to Fairford and all this. So it's very interesting to see like clearly like a very inexperienced team here, but it's because of the constraints they're operating under. They don't have another option, like they can't wait. Right? And uh, even then, we talked about this in the previous show with, I think it was Andy and I talking about this.

• 38:00Speaker 05

  That even if they just touched the base, like, oh, we touched it. That's enough. That's a win. Because that means they breached security. They got through, they they put a black eye on the US and UK and so on. It's not about necessarily blowing stuff up, although they would love to do that. It doesn't have to go that far. It's just enough to signal to the other side that, hey, we are still here. Um, and I think that's really what the goal was here. It just happened to have been disrupted.

• 38:22Jack Murphy?

  I think uh I've mentioned on the show before, there's this great book, uh, Bomb, Burn, Destroy, and it's about the German sabotage networks in the United States during World War One. And that's one of the takeaways from that book is their efforts were also very amateurish. Um, for the longest time, working with the German diaspora in the United States. And really, when it picked up steam was when the Germans sent over a professional intelligence officer. And he started coordinating and running the operations. And that's when they started to take off.

• 38:55Speaker 05

  Yeah. And uh, I see in the chat, somebody asked a question about uh our opinions about immigration in the future. We need people like the Yale professor I talked about to balance population and so on. And actually, that's a great point. And countries like China, Russia and Iran have very structured and merit-based education systems at the very top level, where you're producing these really, really intelligent mathematicians, engineers, and things like that. For example, Iran has something called the Math Olympia. These guys are like the most brilliant mathematicians in the world. I I know some of them here at Yale. And there's something like 80 of them per year that that leave Iran to go finish their PhD outside of Iran because they can't continue there.

• 39:40Speaker 05

  And half of them don't return at a minimum. Because they don't want to go back to Iran. Because if they go back to Iran, all like, let's say you're a physics PhD studying molecular, you know, nuclear research, for example. Well, guess what your job will be when you return to Iran? And and you're like a genius, right? Like, you're like, looking at like how to solve the problems of the universe and this government wants you to come back and build a bomb.

• 40:00Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Do you really want to be on the Mossad hit list? I wouldn't.

• 40:03Speaker 05

  Right. So they're like, well, I'm just not coming back.

• 40:04Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 40:05Speaker 05

  Now, the problem is, in the US, we're not letting them stay. In fact, we just changed the rules about F1 visas and working as a student. Where if you're a foreign student, there are now new restrictions that either make it impossible or have huge restrictions on how you can work in America and be paid. And it should be the opposite. This is my policy position. It should be the opposite where we should like dramatically incentivize these guys to come here. Yes, we have counterintelligence. Yes, we watch what they're doing. We even tell them like, we are going to watch what you're doing, but we love what you're doing on the academic side. Keep doing well and you get to stay here. If you fuck it up, we'll take you out. Right? And I think that's the way that it should go down because these people can contribute to the United States. I mean, look at Werner von Braun, a Nazi. Came to America and established our space program.

• 40:46Speaker 05

  Like, we wouldn't have not have won the space race against the Soviets without this dude who was a a Nazi. Right? So like, and there are many other examples of the Nazis that came here. Operation Paperclip, people haven't read that. I highly encourage you to go out and read about Operation Paperclips, like 3,000 Nazis that we brought to America, like proactively. The Soviets did the same thing. I can't remember the Soviet name for their operation, but they did the same thing, right? So why is it now we're so afraid? I mean, we can do it. Our technology is better. We have ubiquitous technical surveillance. We can see what these guys are doing. We should incentivize them to come here and be productive instead of scaring them to go back to either Iran to build a bomb or to go to China or Russia and help them against us. Right? So it's kind of like super logical to have them here instead of anywhere else on the planet.

• 41:31Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, it's brain drain.

• 41:34Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 41:36Jack Murphy?

  Uh, do you want to get into this, uh, New York Times story, guys?

• 41:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm down.

• 41:41Jack Murphy?

  All right. So we share.

• 41:44Speaker 03

  You guys can keep asking. Oh, there's another question was asked, um, just before we get into this, Jack, just because this relates to. Uh, have we lost initiative in the Middle East?

• 41:56Jack Murphy?

  Yes.

• 41:59Speaker 03

  I just wanted to hear you guys say it.

• 42:00Jack Murphy?

  You're afraid so.

• 42:02Speaker 05

  I think the Abraham Lincoln is the best place to point toward to answer that question because the Abraham Lincoln has twice come up. At moments of losing the initiative. The first time was after the invasion of Iraq. Two thousand and three, when Bush stood on it and said, mission accomplished, and we lost the initiative. The second time was just a couple of months ago, when the same ship, Abraham Lincoln, was rusted out. Dudes were jumping off the boat. And had to get sent home after being to what, two hundred and seventy days at sea? I think the Abraham Lincoln is a great archetype for answering that question.

• 42:29Speaker 03

  Eight sailors, eight sailors tried to commit suicide.

• 42:32Jack Murphy?

  When, uh, when you hear the policy wonks using terms like escalate to de-escalate or reestablish deterrence. That's indicative of like total strategic failure, in my opinion.

• 42:44Speaker 05

  And let's not forget that war is the failure of policy. And Clausewitz said that war is, you know, policy by other means or whatever, but really it's war is a failure. If we're fighting war, we have failed.

• 42:58Speaker 03

  Right.

• 42:58Speaker 05

  In our other options that are better and for everybody. And maybe it's an easy thing to do to hit a button to launch a bomb. But that, that means you failed at actually agreeing to anything or fixing something.

• 43:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, let's get into the podcast, the special ops podcast, Vet Bro Space.

• 43:17Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, the Vet Bro Podcast Industrial Complex. Uh, so this is the Special Ops Podcasts, changing the narrative of the war on terror in the New York Times. Uh, written by Wes Morgan, who is an, uh, uh, well, he is an author. He's also a previous guest on the Team House.

• 43:34Speaker 03

  Great book about the, uh, of what's the valley? Is it Coringal?

• 43:38Jack Murphy?

  At Peck Valley.

• 43:39Speaker 03

  Peck Valley, incredible book.

• 43:41Jack Murphy?

  Uh, so yeah, this book is basically about, you know, the veterans, special ops podcasts out there. And how that is recontextualizing the war. Um, and how it's reaching out to people, um, and, and telling, you know, the story of the war, but also some misconceptions about it and. How it gets interpreted. Uh, there's a little shout out here to the Team House. Uh, pointing out that our pod does not really get into the culture war stuff. We don't really talk about masculinity and injecting steroids and all that kind of stuff. Like it's just. We, we kind of stay focused on, on what we do.

• 44:21Speaker 03

  Even though we all are on steroids.

• 44:26Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I mean, I, I, I, I don't think anyone is really interested in listening to, you know, me talk about, you know. How much I don't like Trump or, you know, what I think a man is like, who, who cares? You know, stay focused on, you know, these veterans stories and enabling veterans to tell their stories is, is kind of the goal. Um, so I, I guess the, the big main thrust here of the article though, is about how. A lot of these guys that they're having big guests, uh, on these podcasts. Have the takeaway from twenty years of war that the reason why we lost is because we never really took the gloves off.

• 45:08Jack Murphy?

  Because it was restrictive ROEs, uh, that we, we weren't vicious enough. We weren't brutal enough, and that's why we lost.

• 45:17Speaker 03

  I mean, you.

• 45:18Speaker 05

  Because you look at like, so look at who was brutal, like the Soviets, right? Or the, the Russian, uh, uh, Germany.

• 45:24Jack Murphy?

  Exactly.

• 45:25Speaker 05

  Like, like Stalingrad, Leningrad, like scorched earth, or even, um, General Sherman in the Civil War, scorched earth. I mean, was that better?

• 45:33Jack Murphy?

  The, the Russians, you know, we, we have an even more specific example. The Russians fought in Afghanistan in nineteen eighties. Now, are you telling me the, the Soviet Red Army fought with DEI policies? That's why they've lost it. Come on.

• 45:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:53Speaker 03

  Um, I mean, were the ROEs that restrictive?

• 45:57Jack Murphy?

  At times, yes. There, there, there's a legitimate argument to be made at times that the ROEs were ridiculous. Like I talked to one special forces guy, uh, where the Taliban were taking over this town in northern Afghanistan. And there, the Taliban had like a T seventy-two or T fifty-five tank. That was flying a Taliban black flag cruising around the city. And he could not get authorization to do an airstrike on this tank. So what are we doing here, guys?

• 46:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:27Jack Murphy?

  Like this is.

• 46:28Speaker 03

  Should be obvious.

• 46:29Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. So it's stuff like that. Like, you know, there was times in the war where. You know, they would, uh, our soldiers would take enemy gunfire from a building. And they simply would not authorize airstrikes on that building. Um, sometimes there's a good reason for that, but a lot of times it's like, what are we doing here? I mean, we're.

• 46:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, convince me of the good reason for it.

• 46:50Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 46:50Speaker 03

  You know, yeah.

• 46:51Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. If it's like a, a schoolhouse or something, maybe there's, you know, hesitation there because we don't know who's inside, but. I mean, in other cases, like, and drop a five hundred pounder on it and move on.

• 47:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, we had very restrictive stuff, like even with, um, the overhead, like, uh, UAS systems where. You want to do a strike on a building, like you know the dude's bad, like you've already got the intel, he's already in the building. You have to do an eight hours. And this is at SOCOM. You have to do an eight hour soak of overhead on the building before you can strike it. To make sure that no women or kids coming around. It's like, this is a very arbitrary number of hours. And you're going to let me strike it at eight minutes and one second, but not. Or eight hours and, and one minute, but not seven hours and fifty-nine minutes. Like what is the difference here? Um, and there were numerous times when like. Somebody would come out and our Geo Ent guys would be like, oh, that shadow, the probably a kid. In the, in the chat, in the Merc chat between us and them. And then we'd be like, okay, so does that mean the strike is off?

• 47:47Speaker 05

  And like they'd wait and they'd go talk to the targeting officer and targeting officer was like, how sure are you that was a kid? And like, we've been sitting there for like five hours. So of course they're like, not a kid. You know, so it's like this whole thing was for nothing then, because it doesn't matter if it was a kid or not. Another thing is like in the early years of the war, like two thousand and three or four, rules of engagement were pretty open. So like, you could shoot pretty much anybody. And, and there were some places in Iraq, for example, where like. If someone was on a roof, you would shoot them. Like period. Like that was how you're allowed to do it. And then it would go the complete opposite way where like you can't fire back unless you have PID. Even if you were fired at, you can't fire back unless you have PID.

• 48:19Speaker 03

  PID.

• 48:20Speaker 05

  Positive identification of the exact guy that shot at you. So like. If this dude's like good at shoot, move, communicate, and he shoots you and he moves to a new location, like you're done. Even if he pops up again, you can't be sure that it was him, right? At like three hundred meters, for example. So like. We kind of in some ways shoot ourselves in the foot both ways. Cause we're either like ultra open or ultra restrictive and we're very bad at like. A middle ground that would actually make sense for the very specific engagement. Because even in, on one day in July, two thousand and four, for example. Guys fighting in Ambar have a very different war going on than guys fighting in Baghdad. Like requires different rules of engagement because it's a different war in those places, you know, or in like a, in a Shia town controlled by Muktada al-Sadr.

• 49:02Speaker 05

  Very different stuff going on and the way the enemy is fighting versus like Iraqi army forces that haven't surrendered yet. Like totally different story here, right? Um, but instead we had like blanket ROEs, like you will just treat everybody the same. But it's like, but they're not the same.

• 49:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:16Speaker 05

  They're fighting differently. You know what I mean? And some of them are, are like protected by Geneva Conventions because they're soldiers like Saddam's forces, for example. Whereas then you get these like Sadr forces that are not state actors, suddenly get this like quasi. Protection that we give them. And then they get like too much protection, then they learn about the protection and they use it. Especially like when I was doing interrogations, like, because I was in when we had the change from. Enhanced interrogation techniques to very limited interrogation techniques. And they knew what those changes were. So like they knew what to say, what to do to exploit that, even in the detention facility. Where they knew exactly we would hold them for fourteen days. They knew how many meals they were allowed to get, how much time they were allowed to pray, like all these things. And they would use every single one of those things, even in captivity.

• 50:01Speaker 05

  When you could have just shot the dude on the roof.

• 50:03Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I had a drone guy tell me about how, uh, you know, to your point about starting all over again, starting the, the targeting cycle over again. They'd be watching like a dude driving a car for like eight hours or whatever, and they finally got cleared for the strike. And if the strike misses, like the hellfire missile hits right in front of the car and the guy bails out of the car and runs. They have to restart the cycle all over again to kill the guy. And they just let him go because it's like, by the time we go through the process.

• 50:32Speaker 05

  So what we what we did around that, like 2016, SOCOM started doing something called Restrikes Authorized. So like when you're getting the strike approved in the first place, you would have a line in your target package that would say Restrike Authorized. Because before that, you would have to do exactly what you just said, Jack. We have to like redo the entire target package because no longer is it a vehicle with two guys inside. Now it's a guy on foot. This is a different target.

• 50:55Jack Murphy?

  Is it better than the car, though?

• 50:58Jack Murphy?

  The guy running through the open desert, like, seems pretty clear cut.

• 51:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 51:02Speaker 03

  I have a question. The changing of the rules of engagement, like John, you mentioned early on in the wars, it was pretty, you know, fast and loose, or more fast and loose than later on. Was it because we wanted to start integrating the whole like counter insurgency stuff? And like, not make up people upset about it and try to win hearts and minds and that whole fucking thing?

• 51:24Speaker 05

  Well, the big change was 2006 when the crystal came to Iraq and started doing the very specific targeting cycle, the F3 EID, find, fix, finish, exploit, analyze, disseminate. F3 EAD. And so that's when they actually separated the two conventional forces from special forces, where conventional forces began to dramatically limit their rules of engagement. And then SOCOM kept basically what the old rules were, but looked more open in comparison. That's when you had things like Jessica Lynch. If you remember her, a main reason Jessica Lynch was captured by the Iraqis was because when their unit got ambushed, they hadn't practiced how to fire their weapons and things like this because they didn't expect to actually use them because of the rules of engagement issue was very restrictive.

• 52:08Speaker 05

  And their unit was a reservist unit that didn't have a lot of experience. And the reason, like in the moment when she was taken, it's because she was trying to actually remediate her rifle. I don't know if people know this. She was trying to remediate it. It had a round stuck in the chamber. And she didn't know how to do tap rack bang to remediate it. So like, she wasn't able to fire her weapon in defense. Right? It's like, this is the conventional side.

• 52:28Speaker 03

  Isn't that some of the stuff they teach you to be like in the beginning?

• 52:31Speaker 05

  So the army is different, and Jack, you can probably talk about this, but like army basic training, they don't do marksmanship like the Marine Corps. Like in the Marine Corps, you actually go to the range and shoot at the correct range that you're firing at. Whereas the army, they have a piece of paper printed out with different sized targets as if they were virtually further away, but on the same piece of paper on a barrel. And they sit there and dry fire on the barrel at 10 meters. On a 300 meter simulated targets, like you don't know how to do windage. You don't know how to do like compensation, remedial action. This is at the basic level. It's different now because the war is over. And of course, we've learned all of our lessons. But back at that time, you had people in like tri colors from Vietnam, these giant flak jacket vests from Vietnam with these long ass M16s and M16A2s, like, like as long as half their body, right?

• 53:16Speaker 05

  And they don't know how to operate them properly. And they're like thrown into the war without armor plating on their Humvees, by the way. Like, this is like the early years of the war when like, we're like, oh, yeah, it'll be easy. We'll just dismantle all the Iraqi forces and then fight the insurgency. And it was like, clearly, you know, the Abraham Lincoln thing we mentioned, it went a different direction.

• 53:34Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, the Marine Corps definitely has a greater focus on marksmanship at the entry level. I went to infantry basic training. I think like regular basic training where everyone else goes is they probably have it different. But then, this is a million years ago, too. I mean, I went through basic training in 2002. And I do know that the entire marksmanship program in the army has been like totally overhauled. So I'm not exactly sure what they do, but I mean, the qualification was, you know, shooting E-type silhouettes from 50 to 300 yards.

• 54:09Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even back then, like in the Marine Corps, we were using iron sights. So like, we had to know how to

• 54:14Jack Murphy?

  Oh, don't get me started, John.

• 54:16Speaker 05

  And all that. Now they're

• 54:16Jack Murphy?

  Here he goes. Back in my day, we had iron

• 54:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, now they have these like little red chevrons and their EOTAC, you know, like at the basic level. Like, how do these guys get these weapons? This is crazy. We used to have to like fight to get a Picatinny rail on our rifle.

• 54:31Jack Murphy?

  Now they're like I always bring this up with Andy Milburn and Marines of his age. Like, yeah, hey, you guys had iron sights back then, right? And we watch them freak out. All we had was iron sights.

• 54:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, 18 inch barrel in our rifle. Couldn't get around a corner with it.

• 54:48Jack Murphy?

  But the the flip side to the ROE conversation that you point out, John, is like how ridiculous it was at other points, of how loose it was at other points. During the war against ISIS, for example, stuff like some things came off the rails, man.

• 55:05Jack Murphy?

  We blew up a lot of stuff. And I mean, part of it is because there was enormous political pressure to defeat ISIS. And we had a partner force, the Iraqis, who will not move unless they have overwhelming American firepower on their side. So there is a reason why we opened up the ROEs. It's not just because we're like, oh, let's blow up civilians. That's not why. We did it because we had to defeat a really evil organization. And our options for that were limited unless we were going to like re-invade Iraq and invade Syria with ground troops, which no one anywhere wanted to do. But like the the Times did a investigation

• 55:45Jack Murphy?

  into airstrikes that actually CENTCOM was uploading the videos, like, kind of like bragging about it, you know? Like, oh, look, we destroyed like 10 enemy compounds in Mosul. Well, the Times sent reporters out to go and investigate, interview the people who lived there and found out that oftentimes they had nothing to do with ISIS.

• 56:05Speaker 05

  Which year was that? I want to make sure that wasn't me.

• 56:08Jack Murphy?

  20, like 15, 2015, 2016, around that timeframe.

• 56:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, that was, that was me.

• 56:14Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Well, I mean, John, do you remember in ROE where they, part of it was that if there were six or more vehicles outside of a home, you could just blow up the home?

• 56:25Speaker 05

  Yeah. And that was Actually, we did that during Ramadan. We did a thing where we got this thing called Gorgon's Dare. And like dudes would go to funerals for their fellow fighters who were killed. And so women weren't allowed at those funerals and they were usually only ISIS fighters. So we were allowed to track all the ISIS fighters and see where they went and kill them all on their way home. Without knowing if they were actually ISIS fighters. So it was like the inference of if they are at a funeral.

• 56:47Jack Murphy?

  I'm kind of okay with that. I mean,

• 56:49Speaker 03

  Same here. And I'm a dirty liberal, bro. And I'm okay with that.

• 56:55Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, but I mean, some, what I'm saying is that just the ROEs got so loose, they got loose for a reason. But it's this question of like, speed versus accuracy. Like, you can be very slow and very deliberate and therefore very accurate. But when you're fighting like an actual enemy army, like we were with ISIS, it's like you have to move faster, you have to expend more munitions. But in doing that, you end up killing a lot of people. There's a lot of collateral damage. So yeah, I think John's absolutely right there that, you know, the ROE was both too tight and too loose at various times during the

• 57:36Speaker 05

  I'll give you another example of a very tight one. So it was in Afghanistan and we had, there were two Taliban snipers that shot a Marine in our unit, killed him. One of our guys did counter sniper and shot one of the guys back in the leg, in the thigh, wounded him. But because the way our ROEs were, we couldn't kill the guy because we shifted position while, while moving on to the objective. And so we had to actually rescue the Taliban guy and keep him alive and bring him back to the hospital. Like give him a blood transfusion. I interrogated him on his deathbed. Putting him in this thing called bats and hides, which was where they like scan your irises and your fingerprints for biometrics. You see like where you were captured previously. It's like clearly he was. And the dude's like dying on the bed, but we like saved him after he killed one of our Marines in front of us.

• 58:20Speaker 05

  Because the ROEs were so restrictive that we couldn't just like finish killing a guy we already shot, right?

• 58:28Speaker 03

  You didn't smother him with a pillow?

• 58:31Speaker 05

  We're not the SEALs.

• 58:32Jack Murphy?

  Oh.

• 58:35Jack Murphy?

  Sing.

• 58:36Speaker 03

  Talking about the SEALs.

• 58:38Jack Murphy?

  So yeah, the article's pretty interesting here. And it talks about sort of the recontextualization of the war and whether or not we're coming away from 20 years of war with the correct takeaways, with the correct after action bullets. So I'd give, recommend giving this article a read. It was pretty interesting.

• 58:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was pretty good. I started, I was about halfway through. Looks pretty good so far. I stopped at the Team House part because I was so, I was smiling. I want to tell you guys that I saw it mentioned in there.

• 59:07Speaker 03

  You know what's funny, John? You know, you're a glass half full kind of guy because I was like, we should have got more fucking love in there. But

• 59:15Speaker 05

  It's because you didn't mention Vera watches.

• 59:17Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, what I was telling Dee was you got to be careful how much love you wish to get from the press because

• 59:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, how notorious do you want to be?

• 59:25Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, that's, that's my, my view too about this is, you know, any publicity is good publicity.

• 59:31Speaker 03

  I want to be notorious enough to have a second home, John.

• 59:34Jack Murphy?

  And the thing is like, to get a fluff piece in the New York Times, like, that's cool. That's good PR.

• 59:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:41Jack Murphy?

  But the negative, the hit piece, that's what turns you into a fucking legend. That's the best thing that can ever happen.

• 59:48Speaker 03

  Stop saying that because our whole show is based on like not pushing that, specifically the Team House. I push on Izan because I don't give a fuck.

• 59:55Jack Murphy?

  It is, but if some, if some lefty rag wants to make a hit piece on us, I mean, it's good publicity.

• 1:00:02Speaker 03

  I'm in, bro. I'm in.

• 1:00:03Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's Donald Trump's strategy. Any publicity is good publicity.

• 1:00:06Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he's not wrong.

• 1:00:11Speaker 05

  It works.

• 1:00:13Speaker 03

  Jacko, tell us what you're working on, High Side.

• 1:00:17Jack Murphy?

  Uh, we are looking to publish tomorrow or Friday, the next piece of the Willie Murkerson story, uh, special forces soldier who was awarded the distinguished service cross in Vietnam. That story is already published on the high side. The one that's about to come out is, uh, what he was doing in Sudan in nineteen eighty-five. Uh, there was, uh, the Libyans were making a lot of, uh, progress, uh, in Sudan and the CIA didn't like that. So they ran an operation to get the Libyans all kicked out of the country. Uh, and Sean has been investigating that, um,

• 1:00:57Jack Murphy?

  really in-depth interviewing a lot of people. Um, so please, uh, go check out the high side. That, that, that piece should be out before the end of the week.

• 1:01:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that link is in the description, so it's easy to get to. Um, John, what are you working on besides like, uh, bottles and diapers?

• 1:01:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, so I got my exams for law school coming up, which is this whole like side gig I have going on outside of the eyes on, you know, which is my main.

• 1:01:23Speaker 03

  Side gig, yeah, law school, yeah.

• 1:01:26Speaker 05

  Um, yeah, I've actually written like fifty thousand words of notes since September. Um, but all that is, that's my side thing. Like I mentioned, I got this other project I'm working on, writing a story, or it's actually a true story about how I met and got my wife out of Iraq, um, which is insane. I've actually never told anyone all the details publicly. So like, when you guys see this, you're gonna be like, I didn't even realize it was that intense, uh, but it was pretty intense and, uh, for many reasons and over a long period of time, uh, from the intelligence perspective and counterintelligence perspective and also like from getting her out of Iraq perspective. Um, so yeah, I'm working on that slowly but surely. But of course I have a lot of, uh, you know, moons rotating around this planet that I am here. Um, so sometimes it gets attention, sometimes it doesn't, but I hope

• 1:02:08Speaker 05

  to have it done by early springtime. And actually, there's another thing I'm working on. It's a research paper. So you know how we always talk about sanctions, or at least I always talk about like, you know, sanctions alone are not good. So I'm actually doing, this is for school, but I'm going to publish it academically too, about pistachios, carpets, and saffron in Iran, which are like the chief non-oil exports of Iran before the sanctions came in. And I'm, what I'm gonna do is some sensitivity analysis to see like, what's gonna happen to the global market for Spain-produced saffron, Turkish-produced carpets, and California-produced pistachios, which by the way, is like a six billion dollar business per year. What's gonna happen to those markets when sometime in the future, the sanctions are removed?

• 1:02:51Speaker 05

  Because there's gonna be a massive disruption. And if you're either into trading or an economist, you're gonna see opportunities there to probably make some money if you know what those new vulnerabilities look like and if you can get ahead of that. So I'm doing some research on that because I'm very interested to see like, what's gonna happen that day that those sanctions are removed? Because you, if you get on the ground floor, you can definitely make, make a good penny.

• 1:03:13Speaker 03

  I'd like to get in on the ground floor, John.

• 1:03:15Jack Murphy?

  Pistachio farmer, who'd have thought?

• 1:03:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's super interesting, right? Like when a whole bunch of like, uh, supply comes online, right?

• 1:03:23Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:03:24Speaker 03

  What happens to the orig- you know, the, the original, the guys who are making the six billion a year are in the, in the pistachio market?

• 1:03:34Speaker 05

  Well, one spicy, no pun intended, thing I found out was that in Spain, the saffron, like if you go to the grocery store right now in the United States and you want to buy saffron, it comes in these little glass bottles and it says like Spanish saffron. Apparently, almost all saffron in Spain, so some of it's grown there. Most of the saffron is actually imported from Iran, taken out of its packaging, repackaged into this Spanish saffron and sent to the United States and sold in the US. So most people using saffron in the US are using Iran-sanctioned saffron, which is allowed to be sold here for a reason I haven't figured out yet in my research, but I'm going to find out. Uh, so it's kind of fascinating, just even that like initial thing, like there's a lot going on here that is not so direct. Because we always talk about sanctions on oil and like, that's like the big thing. But

• 1:04:15Speaker 05

  it's like, how are people evading sanctions on food goods? Like, uh, like luxury food goods, you know what I mean? Like around the world, it's kind of fascinating to think about that.

• 1:04:24Speaker 03

  Well, I had a restaurant, right? And, and one of the tricks to our burger and how good our burger was, it's called Bonnie's Grill, it's still there if you want to go by. I'm not making money on that.

• 1:04:33Speaker 05

  Sponsored by Bear Watches.

• 1:04:34Speaker 03

  Don't, that, we're all making money. Um, we used to put a lepo pepper on our burgers, right?

• 1:04:42Speaker 05

  From Syria.

• 1:04:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. And initially, like when this, the civil war kicked off, like it really spiked, and then it kind of leveled out. And I was getting it from like a Middle East supplier in Brooklyn, and the price kind of stayed the same throughout. So I don't know if like they were, you know, the same thing that was going on with the saffron, you know, like,

• 1:05:03Speaker 03

  I don't know. Well, that's interesting.

• 1:05:05Jack Murphy?

  Bootleg Aleppo spices.

• 1:05:08Speaker 03

  It made the burger very good. Uh, I'm gonna say it here, and I want people to keep me honest. Jack was, I was trying to get Jack to like, uh, berate me yesterday. I'm writing a book and it's gonna be done and it's gonna be put out on December first. It's called American Insurgent. I have to do the audiobook. I'm gonna read the audiobook with somebody else too, because I'm gonna have another person read it as well, like certain other parts. And it's coming out, it's, yeah, it's, what?

• 1:05:37Speaker 05

  You need a woman's voice on the other side?

• 1:05:39Speaker 03

  No, I need a British guy. I might use Andy, free work from him. Yeah, free, uh, free work from the Colonel. Um, it's gonna come out December first, hell or high water. I'm gonna fucking finish it because I'm done being a lazy piece of shit.

• 1:05:54Jack Murphy?

  Get your life together, man.

• 1:05:55Speaker 03

  I need to, I know.

• 1:05:57Speaker 05

  You should release chapters so that it like keeps you honest.

• 1:06:01Speaker 03

  That is a good idea.

• 1:06:02Jack Murphy?

  People do that on Substack.

• 1:06:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, Andy's been doing that with his new book about Israel and Gaza. So that is a great idea, actually. Thank you, John.

• 1:06:11Speaker 05

  You're welcome. You can pay me for that.

• 1:06:12Speaker 03

  All right, cool. Guys, check out Bear Watches too, bear.com, bearwatches.com/the team house. That link is in the description. They're beautiful watches and they're affordable. Guys, a pleasure.

• 1:06:27Speaker 06

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  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:16:05Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 1:16:25Speaker 07

  Chat GPT for teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically and grow their skills. Chat GPT for teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com slash parents to learn more.

• 1:16:52Speaker 06

  Hey guys, Lady Luck here. I just love the fall season. Chris morning pumpkin spice latte and it's the best time to cozy up and play Spin Quest. They have over a thousand different slots in all my favorite casino style games and they're running a deal for all new players, a $30 coin package for just $10. So this fall, grab your favorite blanket, visit spinquest.com and download the app today.

• 1:17:16Speaker 01

  Spinquest is a free to play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:17:59Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:18:14Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:18:25Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:18:30Speaker 02

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:18:36Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 1:18:56Speaker 07

  Chat GPT for teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically and grow their skills. Chat GPT for teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com slash parents to learn more.

• 1:19:24Speaker 00

  You know what? It sucks to be bored. But when I get on my phone and play real casino games on spinquest.com, the time flies by. That two hour wait at the DMV seems like 10 minutes. Play your favorite spots, live blackjack, live craps with a live dealer. New players, $30 coin packs are on sale for $10. Play spinquest.com and you'll never be bored again.

• 1:19:48Speaker 01

  Spinquest is a free to play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

• 1:19:54Speaker 02

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:20:32Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:20:47Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:20:58Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:21:03Speaker 02

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:21:09Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 1:21:29Speaker 07

  Chat GPT for teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically and grow their skills. Chat GPT for teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com slash parents to learn more.

• 1:21:57Speaker 00

  You know what? It sucks to be bored. But when I get on my phone and play real casino games on spinquest.com, the time flies by. That two hour wait at the DMV seems like 10 minutes. Play your favorite spots, live blackjack, live craps with a live dealer. New players, $30 coin packs are on sale for $10. Play spinquest.com and you'll never be bored again.

• 1:22:20Speaker 01

  Spinquest is a free to play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star trust pilot reviews, OnDeck delivers fun You can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:23:01Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:23:15Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:23:26Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:23:32Speaker 02

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:23:37Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:23:57Speaker 07

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.comPARENTS to learn more.

• 1:24:25Speaker 00

  Yo, it's Bluff here. I've been giving out king-size candy bars to all the kids all day, and luckily karma was right around the corner. This Halloween, Spinquest is giving away a scary good deal, thirty for ten dollar coin pack. They have over a thousand games available, and with instant cash prize redemptions, there's no waiting like those other schmucks. Don't miss out. Go to spinquest.com or download the app right now.

• 1:24:48Speaker 01

  Spinquest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

• 1:24:55Speaker 02

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:25:30Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:25:44Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:25:55Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:26:01Speaker 02

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:26:06Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:26:26Speaker 07

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.comPARENTS to learn more.

• 1:26:54Speaker 02

  Hey guys, Lady Luck here. I just love the fall season. Chris Mornings Pumpkin Spice Latte, and it's the best time to cozy up and play Spinquest. They have over a thousand different slots in all my favorite casino-style games, and they're running a deal for all new players, a thirty dollar coin package for just ten bucks. So this fall, grab your favorite blanket, visit spinquest.com, and download the app today.

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  Spinquest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

• 1:27:24Speaker 02

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:28:01Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:28:15Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:28:26Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:28:31Speaker 02

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:28:37Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:28:57Speaker 07

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.comPARENTS to learn more.

• 1:29:26Speaker 00

  Forget whatever plans you have this weekend because you're staying at home and playing on Spinquest. And there's never been a better time to sign up than right now. New users get thirty dollar coin packs for just ten dollars. All the table games you love, with hundreds of slot games and real cash prizes. That's at spinquest.com. S-P-I-N-Q-U-E-S-T.com.

• 1:29:47Speaker 01

  Spinquest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

• 1:29:55Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:30:31Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:30:46Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:30:57Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:31:02Speaker 02

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:31:08Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:31:28Speaker 07

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.comPARENTS to learn more.

• 1:31:55Speaker 00

  You know what? It sucks to be bored. But when I get on my phone and play real casino games on spinquest.com, the time flies by. That two-hour wait at the DMV seems like ten minutes. Play your favorite slots, live blackjack, live craps with a live dealer. New players, thirty dollar coin packs are on sale for ten bucks. Play spinquest.com and you'll never be bored again.

• 1:32:19Speaker 01

  Spinquest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:32:59Speaker 02

  She's been thinking about this sleepover all week, but I think about her food allergies all the time. Fortunately, her doctor prescribed Zolair, omalizumab. It's proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens. Zolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people one year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Zolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Zolair. Zolair may cause a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Zolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Zolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including

• 1:33:42Speaker 02

  anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been

• 1:33:50Speaker 00

  reported. Please see zolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Zolair. This is an advertisement for Zolair, paid for by Genentech and Novartis.

• 1:33:59Speaker 07

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.comPARENTS to learn more.

• 1:34:26Speaker 00

  Happy birthday, America. It's time to celebrate and play your favorite Las Vegas casino games by American-owned spinquest.com. What's better than fireworks and American pie? Hitting a blackjack in the palm of your hand, and you won't lose your fingers. Over a thousand games, including slots and live dealers, and thirty dollar coin packs are on sale for ten. Spinquest.com. Buy American players for American players.

• 1:34:51Speaker 01

  Spinquest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

• 1:34:57Speaker 02

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:35:26Speaker 07

  Monday night brings one more big matchup to settle into. And when every play matters, the last thing you want to do is step away to figure out dinner. That's where DiGiorno comes in. Get a DiGiorno pizza ready before kickoff, then enjoy restaurant-quality taste fresh from your own oven while you stay locked into every play. Stock up on DiGiorno over the weekend, so when Monday night rolls around, the only thing you sweat is the game. Shop now at the link in the episode description. It's not delivery, it's DiGiorno.