#1111 Alex Feinberg Debunks The Fitness Lies

Alex Feinberg is an entrepreneur & metabolic hacker. In this conversation, we discuss what everyone gets wrong about consuming food, why you're shopping for the wrong food & wrong ingredients, and the incentive structures in the fitness industry that create more unhealthy citizens. During this episode, Alex will help you develop new daily and night time routines to get you to feeling better & eating healthier. ======================= Arculus is the next generation crypto & NFT cold storage wallet that combines one of the world’s strongest security protocols with the easiest to use form factor and app. Arculus requires 3-Factor Authentication to ensure only you have access to your digital assets – something you know – a PIN, something you have – the Arculus Key Card, and biometrics. Learn more and buy it now on getarculus.com. Use promo code POMP to save 15%. Remember, with Arculus, it’s your keys, your crypto. ======================= The Pod Pro Cover by Eight Sleep is the most advanced solution on the market for thermoregulation. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking. Even better? Eight Sleep recently launched the next generation of the Pod. The new Pod 3 enables more accurate sleep and health tracking with double the amount of sensors, delivering you the best sleep experience on Earth. Go to eightsleep.com/pomp ======================= If you’re trying to grow and preserve your crypto-wealth, optimizing your taxes is just as lucrative as trying to find the next hidden gem. Alto IRA can help you invest in crypto in tax-advantaged ways to help you preserve your hard earned money. Alto CryptoIRA lets you invest in more than 200 different coins and tokens with all the same tax advantages of an IRA. They make it easy to fund your Alternative IRA or CryptoIRA via your 401(k) or IRA rollover or by contributing directly from your bank account. There are no setup or account fees, and it’s all you need to do to invest in crypto tax free. Let me repeat that again:You can invest in crypto tax free. So, ready to take your investments to the next level? Diversify like the pros and trade without tax headaches. Open an Alto CryptoIRA to invest in crypto tax-free. Just go to https://altoira.com/pomp ======================= Compass Mining is the world's first online marketplace for bitcoin mining hardware and hosting. Compass was founded with the goal of making it easy for everyone to mine bitcoin. Visit https://compassmining.io/ to start mining bitcoin today! ======================= Valour (formerly DeFi Technologies) represents what’s next in the digital economy -- providing simplified, trusted access to crypto, decentralized finance and Web 3.0 investment opportunities. Institutions and investors can gain diversified, secure, compliant, and easily tradable access to a diversified set of industry-leading equity products and protocols, through a single stock purchase on a regulated exchange. Currently listed on U. S. (OTC: DEFTF) and Canadian (NEO:DEFI) exchanges. For more information or to subscribe to receive company updates and financial information, visit our website at valour.com =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Alex Feinberg is an entrepreneur and a metabolic hacker. In this conversation, we talk about your metabolic health, the financial incentives of the fitness and food industry, why you're probably eating the wrong food, the wrong ingredients, and how that's making you fat and unhealthy. Alex and I had a great conversation. I learned a ton, and I now have a brand new routine on what to do in the gym when I'm eating food, and also before I go to sleep and when I wake up in the morning. I hope you guys enjoy this one. After you listen to the episode, get on Twitter and let us know what you liked, what you didn't like, what you agree with, and what you disagree with. We enjoy the feedback. All right, let's get into the episode with Alex. I hope that you enjoy it.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 1:10Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, guys. Bang, bang. I've got Alex here with me. I thought a great place to start would be you post all kinds of ridiculous photos on the internet of food that you're eating. I'm like, this dude's eating pizza, fried chicken, burgers, tacos, like everything that everyone wants to eat, but you're in great shape. And so as I've paid attention, I'm like, wait a minute, he knows something that the rest of us don't know. Now you're here. What is going on? Why are you eating all this stuff but still able to stay in shape?

• 1:34Speaker 02

  Well, I think the first thing that people should know is I never expected to be 4% body fat. I never approached eating or training in a way where I thought I have to have abs. First and foremost, I decided in my early twenties that I was going to eat delicious food every meal of every day, no matter what. I think that that's my right as a reasonably successful individual to eat delicious food every meal of the day.

• 1:58Speaker 02

  What I found when I was working at Google in my late twenties is that there are a lot easier ways to achieve fitness results than what mainstream fitness tells you.

• 2:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 2:10Speaker 02

  Namely, how you approach training and how you approach eating allows you to eat in a way that doesn't require you to count calories, doesn't require you to avoid these forbidden foods, doesn't require you to live in the gym, and just so happens to result in muscle gain and fat loss, which is what everybody's going for. What I realized was that everybody has it wrong from a first principle standpoint. Most people in the fitness industry think that calories in, calories out is their god. As long as you're burning more calories than you're consuming, you will lose fat. And I found through experience and through working with many individuals that the human metabolism is a little bit more complicated than that. Our endocrine system is more complicated than that.

• 2:54Speaker 02

  And, you know, over years, I've found that as long as I'm eating protein dominant real food with real clean ingredients, I don't have to count calories, I don't have to go hungry. I can eat literally pizza 10 times per month, as many times as I want, burgers, tacos, fried chicken, as long as I'm eating when I'm hungry. I'm not eating around mealtimes. I'm eating when my body tells me, hey, Alex, I need food, put it in me.

• 3:22Anthony Pompliano?

  So what does this look like in a given day? Like, what's an average day of what you eat and when you eat? Is there like a schedule to it or not really?

• 3:29Speaker 02

  There is no fixed schedule to it, but my body will tell me to eat at pretty predictable times, right? So I'll wake up, I'm typically not that hungry early in the morning because I eat late at night. I do what you're not supposed to do, which is eat before bedtime because that's when my body tells me I'm hungry. So commonly, I won't have breakfast until maybe 11. I'll have maybe three eggs, three pieces of bacon, some, you know, organic bread. And then lunch, couple hours later, on average, could be four hours, could be two hours, depending on how my resting metabolic rate is that day. I'll probably eat tacos, you know, 10 ounce ribeye from Trader Joe's, steak tacos, you know, that's going to have another 60, 70 grams of protein in it. And then very commonly for dinner, you know, I'll eat another pizza.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  And the difference between my pizza and the pizzas that you get from like a Domino's or a Pizza Hut is my pizzas have about as much protein as they have carbs. Whereas if you get your pizzas or you get this, you know, quote unquote junk food from traditional fast food restaurants, the margins are in the carbs, right? The margins are not in the meat. And so if you just rely on third parties to create your menu for you, you're going to end up having- A carb dominant diet, you're gonna end up overeating because carbs tend to make you hungrier. And your, you know, your natural appetite is going to become dysregulated to where you think you need to count calories in order to eat the right amount. I discovered how to do that. I, I actually leaned on the intuition skills that I built as a professional baseball player to say, I need to trust my body.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  Right? I'm sure you went through this too, playing sports. You have to trust yourself. If you can't trust yourself, you can't succeed. And so I approached fitness and dieting and training in a way where I prioritize listening to the signals that my body tells me because I started out with a hypothesis that they're right.

• 5:18Anthony Pompliano?

  When you think of pizza, I'll start and go backwards. The pizza has just as much protein as it does carbs. What does that look like? Like when, do you make the pizza? Do you buy it from somewhere? And how do you think about making sure it has enough protein?

• 5:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I make it. A lot of times I'll use other people's frozen bases, uh, just because you can get those very easily. There's a brand I really like, uh, named after me, but not after me. Alex's awesome sourdough. Trader Joe's has good pizza bases too. Main thing that I try to do is I try to put as much meat on as possible. So you're never going to be able to buy a pizza that's already constructed with eighty to a hundred grams of protein. But you can buy chicken breast, you can buy sausage, you can buy pepperoni. And, you know, if you put to eight to sixteen ounces on there, um, it's going to taste good. And it's going to have a lot of protein. So you're probably going to end up eating less of it than if you just got, you know, delivery from Papa John's or just watching football.

• 6:12Anthony Pompliano?

  So the pizza dough that you're buying, is there anything special about it? Or it does it not have things or have certain things you're looking for? Like why that specific brand?

• 6:21Speaker 02

  I like organic pizza. Um, you know, a lot of, uh, American carbs are made with glyphosate. And we know glyphosate, uh, produced by our friends at Monsanto is a carcinogen. And so a lot of people, when they, when they come to the U S, they end up having gut issues. And I think a lot of it has to do with the pesticides that, uh, we spray on our crops. And so I try very hard to avoid, uh, carbs with glyphosate or really any food with glyphosate. So I get organic, uh, bread as much as

• 6:49Anthony Pompliano?

  What does that mean, organic bread? Like, I think people know organic, but they don't think of bread being organic or not organic. So like, it just means it doesn't have this glyphosate in it?

• 6:58Speaker 02

  Among other things, yeah. So, you know, if you're producing bread, you got to grow wheat. And, you know, if you're producing, you know, you can grow Roundup-ready wheat, which means you can grow the wheat and spray Roundup on it. And Roundup has, is one of Monsanto's leading products. It has glyphosate. They recently had a lawsuit about the actual effects of glyphosate, but let's just say, we don't want to expose our bodies to excessive glyphosate.

• 7:27Anthony Pompliano?

  And this is why, when people go to Europe, one of the most fascinating things to me in all of the world at the moment is how many people over the summer that I know went to Europe, they ate like shit, they ate pizza and breads and croissants and all kinds of craziness. They didn't really walk more than normal or anything like that. And they came back and like, I lost weight. Like, I ate all these carbs and I lost weight. What's going on? And it goes back to, it's not the same type of carbs that maybe we're consuming here in America.

• 7:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, a lot of the pesticides that we use in the United States are illegal to use in other countries. Not just the pesticides. You know, some of the products that we feed our pigs are, you know, legal in the United States and they help the pigs grow to a marketable weight. They're not legal in like 150 other countries. And so if you understand some of the economics around both food production and also fitness, you start to understand why so many people have had kind of miraculous success doing things that aren't supposed to work and have had no success doing things that are supposed to work.

• 8:27Anthony Pompliano?

  As you go to the grocery store, so you buy the pizza, you get a bunch of just regular meat and you're basically putting it on there. The meat is balancing out the carbs, but also it's cleaner carbs. And you're going to eat less because of the density of the meat that you're putting on, the protein. When you think of tacos, the same principle, just like loaded up with as much protein as possible and the carbs, while minimal, are just outweighed by the protein you're eating?

• 8:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, so if I'm going to make three tacos, you know, that's going to have about 50 grams of carbs. I'm going to use seed oil-free tortillas that I get from HEB in Texas. And I'm gonna put about 10 ounces of Trader Joe's organic ribeye on there, which is gonna have another 60 or so grams of protein. And so, you know, I'm not a big macro tracker guy, but I'm aware of what I'm eating. And so I put a little cheese on there. There's a little bit of protein in the tortillas. So we're talking maybe 70, 75 grams of protein balanced out with 60 or so grams of carbs. A lot of times people will try to eat this way and they think they're eating more, but they're actually eating less because protein tends to be one of the most satiating macronutrients that you can eat.

• 9:34Speaker 02

  So you don't feel like, oh, I can only eat two tacos. It's like, I just eat as many as I want. And if I want to eat two, I eat two. If I want to eat three, I eat three. If I want to make a fourth, I make four. But I just listen to what my body's telling me. I don't eat at 1 o'clock because it's lunchtime. I eat lunch when I'm hungry for lunch. And so when you end up aligning your food consumption with when your body tells you to eat, you know, if you don't have underlying metabolic issues that are really distorting your hunger signals and you're living life in accordance with a way that will help you produce viable hunger signals, most people tend to consume less food when they do that.

• 10:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, I read somewhere that I think you only want to eat maybe 1,200 calories if you're optimized for longevity. Like, the amount of calories that you should consume is so much less than the average American diet. And now that's a longevity-specific type of eating. If you just want to be healthy, it's maybe not 1,200, but it's also not, you know, 3,000 calories, whatever people are eating on the average American diet.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  Not necessarily. So the average American is eating probably, I don't even know how they know this because they're not, what are they asking people? How many calories you eat a day? How many burgers are you eating a day? But the data that I've read suggests that the average American eats like 3,500 calories a day, which is insane. But like, if you're just drinking a bunch of soda and eating chips all the time, I guess you could get up to 3,500. I've actually had success with with having people eat more. I think a lot of times what happens in the diet and fitness industry is people kind of neglect their health. They neglect what they look like. They sort of kind of lie to themselves that everything's okay. Until one day they look in the mirror and they say, oh shit, I gotta change something and I gotta change something fast.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  And because they've been neglecting it for the last two or three years, they don't know where to start. So they go Google something or they go on YouTube. Maybe they try a fad diet. Typically, a lot of these fad diets or fad programs, say they do like a whole thirty or a seventy five hard program or something where they're just, you know, training their body to not eat food, right? All of these, all of these.

• 11:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Is that what they do?

• 11:43Speaker 02

  Well, they're they're not eating enough, right? Like, what's a whole thirty diet? You're not eating, you're not eating sugar. I don't believe you're eating carbs. You're just not eating things or not eating a lot of carbs. You're not eating things that your body craves, right? So you're starting in a deprive deprived state, state of deprivation. You end up, you know, massively under consuming food and possibly over exercising. Your body doesn't like that. And if you do it for long enough, your resting metabolic rate will will lower to acclimate to a lower food consuming environment. And so what ends up happening if you under consume food too much for too long is your metabolism slows down. Right?

• 12:24Speaker 02

  And so, you know, sometimes I've worked with people who've been on, you know, salad diets and it's just like.

• 12:32Anthony Pompliano?

  A rabbit?

• 12:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, like rabbits. Like, sometimes if I work with a rabbit and I'm like, no, you should like eat a little bit more like a lion. They end up losing weight, right? And that's not supposed to happen according.

• 12:42Anthony Pompliano?

  So explain, explain why that happens.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  My belief, and a lot of this is a work in progress. You know, I figured out this fitness system. Years before I understood some of the science that substantiated why it worked. I knew this worked back in 2017. I didn't start to know why this was working until 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021. But what I think is going on is the endocrine system is massively underrated as, as far as a driver for fat loss and for, for, for, you know, muscle gain. And so what I think is happening is if you approach life in a way that teaches your endocrine system that, you know, we are in a very fixed environment. There is not that much food out here.

• 13:29Speaker 02

  Your resting metabolic rate slows down. And what a lot of people don't realize when they're trying to lose fat is even if you're working out intensely, 80% of the calories that you're burning are going to be burned outside of the gym. Right? And so a lot of times people will say, well, I gotta go do all this cardio. I gotta, you know, go lift all this, this and that. Well, they're not thinking about how is this affecting the 80% of the calories that I'm burning outside of the gym. And the same thing is true with how they eat. You can actively withdraw calories from your diet, but that doesn't mean that there's going to be no impact on the amount of calories that you burn at rest. The most important two things for, for long-term, let's say, fat management or weight management

• 14:15Speaker 02

  is figuring out how to burn a lot of calories at rest in a training side and then on the diet side. Right?

• 14:25Anthony Pompliano?

  So when you're talking about this, you're like, okay, if you go to the gym and you work out for 30, 45 minutes, maybe you, you're really dedicated and you go for an hour, hour and 15 minutes, you can burn however many calories, right? If I go and I work out for an hour, maybe I burn 300, 400 calories, whatever the Apple Watch says, depending on what I'm doing. Maybe I can really stretch it and do 500 or 600 calories. But you're like, yeah, but the rest of the day, what's going on inside your body? And if you can jack up your metabolism, you can jack up kind of the calorie burn that's happening when you're not technically working out, that's going to have way more impact than what you're doing for the hour long that you're at a gym.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 14:59Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. So how do you do it?

• 15:00Speaker 02

  So.

• 15:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Tell me all the secrets.

• 15:02Speaker 02

  So let me tell you what not to do first.

• 15:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  The way you burn the most amount of calories during a workout is just doing cardio. Right. Or turning weightlifting into a cardio event. If you're always moving, you're always going to be burning calories. So if I just went on the treadmill and ran, say I ran eight miles in an hour, right? Which would be a 730 pace. I'm probably going to end up burning like 1,200 calories, 1,100 calories doing, doing that 60 minute run. But when I get out of the gym, I'm not going to really be burning any more calories. You know, this is, this is sort of like having a high income and spending it every month. It doesn't really.

• 15:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Why is it because you just ran, right? You're, you're working out. Why is your body not going to continue to burn calories afterwards if you're, the workout is running?

• 15:43Speaker 02

  Endurance doesn't translate into a higher metabolic burn as much as intensity does.

• 15:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  And so if rather than running continuously for 60 minutes, you, maybe you did interval sprints. So maybe, maybe you ran one mile worth of interval sprints on off. And, and that took 10 or 15 minutes. And then for the other 45 minutes, maybe you did some warm up sets, obviously. And then you had four sets of squats. Literally, if that's all you did, you'd have better results than if you just ran 60 minutes in a row. For, for, for most trained men, at the very least.

• 16:22Anthony Pompliano?

  Why is it better? Is it literally just the intensity? Do you have to squat heavyweight, lightweight? Like, how does, how does that work?

• 16:29Speaker 02

  So you need to prioritize speed and force in your workouts. And so if you're prioritizing speed and force inherently, you need to rest longer in between sets. So if you approach, say you're doing squats and you're going to do four sets of squats. A lot of people will do 60 second rest, 120 second rest. Similar rest periods to what they might do in like a Barry's Boot Camp class. Unfortunately, if you're doing 60 second rest on squats, you're not squatting very heavy. You're not giving your body the message to say, hey, I need to build muscle to be able to accomplish this workout. And so guess what? Muscle's metabolically expensive. Your body's not going to build it unless you're giving it the signal that, hey dude, you gotta put muscle on me.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  The easiest way to give it that signal that, hey dude, you need to like add muscle is by lifting progressively heavier weights. But you can't lift progressively heavier weights if you're constantly on short rest periods, 60 second, 90 seconds, or maybe you're squatting three times a week, as some people will do when they're starting out on their fitness journey. In order to give your body the proper signals to build muscle, you need to rest a lot, which is why the, you know, if you take a sustainable approach to training, you don't need to kill yourself in the gym. In fact, killing yourself in the gym will set you back in as much as you want to lose fat. So you need to rest, need to rest both between workouts, you need to rest between sets.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  You don't need to do a ton of stuff in the gym, but what you need to do needs to be done well, and you need to fuel your body in such a way that you can perform at a high level when you're training.

• 18:04Anthony Pompliano?

  When you go to the gym, how many times a week do you go and for how long?

• 18:09Speaker 02

  I'm going every other day. I go for a couple hours when I go because I'm old now, I'm 36. It takes a while for me to warm up. You know, my twenties, I could just go bang out and just everything's good and now it's not. I gotta do mobility work and I, you know, I don't have an office to go to at nine or 10 a.m. so I can just kind of take my time. But in those two hours, you know, I might be doing 12 minutes worth of cardio, right? 60 seconds on, 30 seconds off, times eight, measured. And then I might do 20 working sets of lifting, right? Where I'll take, I'll do warmups, but you know, if I'm doing a working set of squats, you know, I'm doing four minutes in between sets. So it might take me 10 minutes to warm up for squats and then it might take me 16 minutes to do four sets of squats.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  And so it's taken me 26 minutes essentially to perform four sets. And if you compare that to how most people train, most people might Be doing eighteen sets in those twenty six minutes. I'm doing four, but I'm doing four in such a way that my body's giving the signal that it needs to hold muscle, which gives me, you know, muscle is effectively the passive income earner of the metabolic system, right? If you're talking to a financial planner, they want to say, okay, we want to get your passive income high because, you know, it's a lot easier to build wealth when your passive income is high. Well, it's a lot easier to burn calories when your lean muscle mass is high. It's the same analogy applied to a different area.

• 19:33Anthony Pompliano?

  And when you are doing the four sets, are you just lifting the heaviest weight possible? Are you progressively increasing, decreasing during the sets? Like, how do you think about what weight you're putting on when squatting in that scenario?

• 19:44Speaker 02

  So I want to be able to complete all the reps that I've assigned for myself. So if I'm doing four sets of five, if I do as heavy weight as possible on the first set, I can't lift, you know, as heavy on the second set. So I'm going to be picking probably somewhere between seventy five and eighty percent of my one rep max. And so that's going to be very hard. It's going to be very hard. If it's to failure, it's likely going to be the last rep of the last set. I'm not trying to take myself to failure multiple times per month, but maybe once or twice per month, per lift I can go to failure, but most days it's, I just want this to be hard. I want it to be as hard as it can possibly be while not detracting from my desire to show up in the gym tomorrow.

• 20:28Anthony Pompliano?

  And when you are doing this, so you go, you run for, you know, let's call it fifteen minutes or so, you do the warmups, you do the squats. Is that the only exercise that you'll do or will you then supplement it with other things?

• 20:37Speaker 02

  No, I'll do accessory work. So, you know, I'll, as I get older and as I get stronger, I can't do the same training that is programmed for most people. And so, you know, if you end up going to a powerlifting gym or a bodybuilding gym, the great thing about these gyms is they have cool equipment that allows you to train your muscles very similarly to traditional barbell movements, but doesn't put the same stress on your lower back or on your knees or on your hips or on various joints that will ultimately be the weak link to you, you know, continuing to develop as you get older and stronger. And so after I get done with my heavy squats, I'll do accessory quad movements. So you know, maybe body weight Bulgarian split squats, which is like a single leg squat variant, but I'm not adding weight to it. I could add

• 21:22Speaker 02

  weight to it, but the purpose of doing body weight Bulgarian split squats is more just to get range of motion, blood flow, tendon ligament strengthening. It's not to try to push myself to failure. After doing that, I'll do a variant of a Romanian deadlift. I want to train my posterior chain. So glutes, hamstrings, lower back, except I'm going to be doing that on a machine called a reverse hyper, which is something that a guy named Louis Simmons, who founded and ran Westside Barbell for many years and trained many successful athletes, including Larry Bird. When Larry Bird had this back injury, he got him on the reverse hyper, which is essentially very similarly structured to a Romanian deadlift in that you are targeting your glutes, your hamstrings, your lower back, but you're not putting that

• 22:06Speaker 02

  stress on your lower spine. Your, your upper body's fixed, your legs are swinging as a pendulum. So you can get a very similar workout without compressing your spine, which is something that you got to be careful about as you get stronger and older. After doing that, I'll go and do some more accessory work focusing on hamstring isolation, adductor, abductor movement. So like the, the yes, no machine. And that's it. You know, it takes me a while to do it because I'm resting in between sets.

• 22:35Anthony Pompliano?

  And will you stack these? So you'll move from, you know, machine to machine? Or will you go and you'll do all the abductor work and then you'll go do all the hyper work? And then you'll go do another lift? Or will you actually try to combine the exercise in more of like a circuit type environment?

• 22:51Speaker 02

  Only the last few exercises will I superset or do more, more circuit based work. So the main lift, like I'm never going to superset around a compound movement. Like I see people at the gym doing deadlifts and like supersetting them with like pushups. I'm like, What are you doing? That's like, you're just trying to make it really hard and not get better because that's exactly what you're gonna do. So I'm never gonna be super setting, especially a lower body compound movement with any other movement.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  And, and the reverse hypers, that's a hard movement too. I'm not gonna be super setting that for the most part, but like hamstring work, adductor abductor work, which is like groins and hips for people who might not have the kinesiology background. I'll super set that, right? I'll go back and forth.

• 23:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Mm hmm. And I know you've talked about like the financial incentives. A lot of times people talk about on the food side, but the fitness side, you've got this like theory that there's financial incentives as to why the gyms and the fitness industry actually want to keep you unhealthy.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Rather than make you healthier. What is that?

• 23:47Speaker 02

  Well, if you think about my business as an investable business, my business is a very bad investable business. It's a good business for me personally. It makes me, you know, decent money month after month. But when you're thinking about a business that you can invest in, you want customers who are coming back month after month, year after year. Right? I tend to be able to solve people's fitness problems in like three to six months, sometimes sooner, sometimes like 30 days. Where's my recurring revenue if I'm solving what could otherwise be a lifetime problem in 30 to 90 days? So if you think about most, most mainstream gyms or whatever, or, or weight loss programs, like, you know, Weight Watchers or something like that.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  The good part about them is they do work, right? If you go to Barry's Bootcamp and you're out of shape, you will get in better shape likely for, for several weeks. The downside of these programs is they don't feel sustainable for, for the user. And so what happens is the user does it for 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, 180 days, has success, burns out. Stops doing it because they're burned out blames themselves rather than the program. Oh, you know, if I just stuck to this training program longer, it was working so well, but life got in the way. I'll go back and I'll do it next year. And guess what? Next year, it's going to work too. For the 90 days that you're doing it or 120 days that you're doing it and then you fall off again.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  Oh, man, I was such a bad boy, you know, I I promise I'm going to get it together together next year. Sign up again, go back to him again for four, five, six months. And so people think that their relationship with a training program or a diet. Needs to require like an unsustainable amount of work. And so when that work isn't sustained, blame themselves, go back, pay the piper again the next year. With with my system, if you learn how to train and you learn how to eat. You don't really need any close coaching or you don't need to pay continual subscription fees. Month after month, year after year.

• 25:59Speaker 02

  And so, you know, I've I've worked with people who are obese, prediabetic, had sugar cravings. And within two, three months, all that's not there anymore. And, you know, they'll pay me like 500 bucks for that. And it's like, wait, the the mainstream medical industry. You know, would charge somebody like $300,000 to accomplish the same thing and it would take 15 years. And they'd consider it a success, right? And so the the more they can keep you as a actively paying customer. You know, how how does a fitness company, how does a gym maximize the lifetime value? Not a gym, but like a a training system. How does it maximize the lifetime value of each user? Well, it needs to keep them paying money month after month.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  How can it do that? Well, it doesn't teach them how to actually do it themselves. Keeps them dependent on the system, keeps them dependent on a system that kind of works, but doesn't work sustainably.

• 26:53Anthony Pompliano?

  What about like the gyms in terms of, you know, the joke is always like, hey, there's only two things that are really hard to quit. It's Comcast and the gym, right? Like they just don't let you leave. Or also you'll see all sorts of things where they'll do, you know, a month free or whatever to get people in the door. And they know, hey, they're never going to come, but it's only 20 bucks.

• 27:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:13Anthony Pompliano?

  And so they'll keep the subscription because like I'm gonna start next week type, you know, behavior. What's going on there with the what kind of financial incentives of the gyms themselves?

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Well, they know that when people make fitness decisions, they they tend to be in a place where they're not very happy about themselves. They're highly suggestible, right? A little bit emotional. And so if they put a piece of paper in front of you, say, sign this, like, a lot of people are gonna sign. But they also know come February, a lot of people have they get caught up in life again, right? Their their New Year's resolutions are are resolutions of yesterday. And so they get put on the back burner. And so if you understand, you know, gyms have resource management, just like a parking lot, just like an airline, right? And so the difference between a gym and an airline is the gym's not going to be at max capacity every, you know, every minute of of every day. It can't

• 28:05Speaker 02

  be. And so gyms just need to make sure that they have enough equipment for users at peak hours. And if they realize, like, oh, actually, you know, only 10% of our members are going to be coming during peak hours, we can sell 1,000 memberships, even though our gym is only, you know, 300 square feet. This is kind of an exaggeration, but like, we don't need the commercial real estate space to accommodate for as many memberships as we're selling. We want to sell as many memberships as possible, and ideally service as few as possible, but just enough to where they keep paying us money.

• 28:37Anthony Pompliano?

  This episode is brought to you by Arculus. Arculus is the next generation crypto and NFT cold storage wallet that combines one of the world's strongest security protocols with the easiest to use form factor and app. They have three factor authentication, and you can use your PIN and Arculus key card along with biometrics. They don't compromise your holdings by requiring a USB port, charging, or browser connections. With Arculus, you're protected from hackers and institutions freezing your access. Learn more today and buy it now at getarculus.com. You can use promo code POMP to save 15%. Getarculus.com. Use promo code POMP. And remember, with Arculus, it's your keys, your crypto. This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Good sleep is the ultimate game changer,

• 29:21Anthony Pompliano?

  and the Eight Sleep Pod is the ultimate sleep machine. The Pod is the only sleep technology that dynamically cools and heats each side of the bed to maintain the optimal sleeping temperature for what your body What he needs with the pod, you can start sleeping as cool as 55 degrees Fahrenheit, or as hot as 110 degrees Fahrenheit. What is the result? Clinical data shows that eight sleep users experience up to 19% increase in recovery, 32% improvement in sleep quality and up to 34% more deep sleep. How do I know it works? I sleep on it every single night and it works so well that I begged the founders. Let me invest in the company. Go check them out today at eight sleep.com slash pump to start sleeping cool this summer and save $150 on the pod. Again, eight sleep.com slash pump.

• 30:04Anthony Pompliano?

  You get $150 off when you use code pump. This episode is brought to you by Alto IRA. They can help you invest in Bitcoin and crypto in a tax advantaged way. That helps you preserve your hard earned money. Alto's crypto IRA lets you invest in Bitcoin and over 200 other different coins and tokens, and it has all the same tax advantages of your traditional IRA. There's no setup or account fees and it's all you need to do. Invest in crypto tax free. Let me repeat that again. You can invest in Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies tax free. So are you ready to take your investments to the next level? Diversify like the pros and trade without tax headaches. Open an Alto crypto IRA to invest in Bitcoin and crypto tax free. Go to altoira.com slash pump.

• 30:46Anthony Pompliano?

  That's A L T O I R A dot com slash pump. Start investing today. And then what about like, I'll call like the education slash entertainment slash fitness industry. So I'm thinking Pelotons, the tonals, those types of devices. Maybe they're more entertainment than they are education. And then there's like this fitness component. Do those seem to work for people? Do people just buy those kind of like the treadmill of, you know, yesteryear? And then it turns into a clothes rack in their house? Like, what's going on there?

• 31:18Speaker 02

  Well, if it works, it works, right? I'm not going to ever tell somebody to stop doing something that works. The challenge with more Peloton than the tonal is Peloton workouts can be hard. Like I'm not going to take away from, from the fact that they're challenging. What I will argue with is, are they effectively challenging? Right? Where one of the challenges with, with workouts and And workout evaluations is most people will ascertain the efficacy of a workout by how hard it felt, how sore they got and how much they sweat. And guess what? A Peloton can check all those boxes. So can a Barry's Boot Camp class, so can CrossFit. Unfortunately, those

• 31:57Speaker 02

  three metrics are not the metrics that ultimately are highly, highly correlated with fat gain and or fat loss and muscle gain. Right? And so what I've found with Pelotons and other lower intensity, longer duration movements, and I say lower intensity, like you're not, it's not the same intensity as sprinting 200 meters. A lot of guys find it challenging to get really defined abdominals doing those. You can get in plenty good shape for, from a longevity standpoint, from a cardiac health standpoint, only doing Peloton work, but it's unlikely that you're going to want to rip your shirt off at a pool party, just, you know, going on the Peloton for even an hour a day.

• 32:40Anthony Pompliano?

  And is that because it's all cardio based and there's not a lot of actual weightlifting?

• 32:46Speaker 02

  Yes, there's, there's that. And then the fact that the cardio itself is only using your legs. And so the most effective cardio uses your full body, whether it's running or assault biking. And so assault bikes have a few different trade names. They can go by the Rogue Assault Bike, Rogue Echo Bike is another alternative, Schwinn Airdyne is another alternative, but it's essentially the bike that where you use your hands at the same time as you're pedaling. That will allow you to attain a much higher heart rate than a legs only bike. And what I've found is, you know, the, the harder I can push myself, the closer I can push myself to my VO2 max during training, is very, very highly correlated with getting leaner. And so rather than focusing on like, oh, I want to go in a calorie deficit, I'm going to go on a diet to

• 33:31Speaker 02

  lose fat. I just focus on how am I going to increase my cardiac output? How am I going to train cardio at as high of an intensity as possible for a short duration of time? And how do I make sure my metrics that I'm tracking are continually getting better so that I know I'm, I'm improving in my conditioning? And I can't really do that on a Peloton. Or a legs only bike.

• 33:52Anthony Pompliano?

  I fucking hate the assault bike. I I've never told you this story before. Uh, when I was in college, I blew out my knee. And uh, if you were hurt, you had to go uh, on the sideline the entire practice and they made you work out. And the whole thing was like, keep guys from basically bullshitting like.

• 34:08Speaker 02

  Right, right. It's gonna be harder than practice. So let's, let's see how hurt you are.

• 34:11Anthony Pompliano?

  A hundred percent, right? And so like, you're like watching and you're like, oh, look at all those guys just standing there waiting to like, you know, uh, they're getting water and I'm over here working my ass off. And so for months, uh, I couldn't do anything with my legs. So pretty much ninety percent, eighty percent of the exercises they were having people on the sidelines who were injured, do I couldn't do. And so the punishment that I would do every single day was I'd get on the assault bike and would not pedal and I would just have to do it with my arms only. Me, me and that assault bike, we got problems still to this day.

• 34:41Speaker 02

  But that's, that's the thing with training. That's the thing with training is, is oftentimes the thing. You know, if you look at like a frat bro, right? Frat bros tend to, you know, have, they drink, so they have a little bit more fat on them than they want to, but they also go to the gym regularly. And so you drill down. You're like, okay, you're training regularly. Your diet's not great, but you're training regularly. So like, what, what's going on there? And almost certainly the frat bros are neglecting training their legs and they're not doing cardio. Right? So if you go in the gym, you just lift your upper body. Well, your upper body as a man is only gonna carry about uh, forty-five, forty percent of your, your total muscle mass. And so by neglecting uh, training your lower body, you're missing out on a majority of the metabolic benefit

• 35:23Speaker 02

  from lifting. And if you're not doing cardio, um, what I found with cardio is, and I didn't know this when I first got started on that path, but as I've gotten deeper into the fitness game, um, and, and delved further into my endocrine hypothesis for why, uh, why people lose fat, is I, I really have found both with myself and other people that I've worked with and then studies that also exist, that if you train your, your cardio at close to max capacity, and it doesn't need to be long, right? But it does need to be close to max capacity. What ends up happening for a lot of people is uh, their hunger gets regulated better. So it's a lot easier to eat the right amount. Like, people think that they get way hungrier

• 36:06Speaker 02

  from doing cardio. That's typically from doing cardio at a lower or moderate intensity for a long period of time. If you do cardio at a lower moderate intensity for a long period of time, you'll almost certainly get hungrier.

• 36:16Anthony Pompliano?

  And this is people who like go on a 10 mile run at a 10 minute pace.

• 36:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 36:20Anthony Pompliano?

  And they're like, I ran 10 miles today. And you're like, kind of.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Yes, you did run the 10 miles, but your heart rate never went above, you know, 120.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  You ran 10 miles, but you're gonna eat it back or you're gonna go hungry tonight. Right? So unless you're willing to perpetually be hungry and suffer the effects of that, because as we talked about earlier, that's gonna disrupt your metabolism.

• 36:41Speaker 02

  It's not sustainable. Whereas, for a lot of people, myself included, if you have an incredibly intense workout, sometimes you're less hungry.

• 36:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Hmm.

• 36:51Speaker 02

  Right? That's not supposed to happen based on the calories in, calories out model. It assumes that hunger and training intensity scale linearly, and they don't at the tail end. If you can train at a high intensity, and again, it doesn't need to be for a long duration, but if you can train at a high intensity, what happens with a lot of people is their appetite becomes better regulated. I'm hungrier on off days frequently than I am on training days. Why is that? Well, I happen to believe, and there is some research out there, possibly corroborating it, but we know research can change, is that the higher intensity you do cardio, you know, it does have an impact on your leptin levels, which have an impact on your hunger. So if you become less hungry from training a certain

• 37:35Speaker 02

  way, that's like a shortcut to dieting. You don't have to consciously not eat. You just have to listen to what your body's telling you. And if it's telling you to eat less, you're naturally gonna be on a diet.

• 37:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Hmm. So really, it's eat high protein, don't eat, you know, the horrible ingredients for you, lift weights and do high intensity cardio, and you don't have to do it for that long. Is that like a fair kind of synopsis of it?

• 37:59Speaker 02

  And eat when you're hungry. Stop eating when you're full. Be careful about sugar consumption. Eat the amount of sugar that you crave, but not more. And that's for most people. If you have, you know, recurring sugar cravings, you probably can't follow that model. But for most people who don't have recurring sugar cravings, it's, you know, if you're really craving a dessert, eat it, right? But eat the amount that you need to satisfy that craving. And once that craving's been satisfied, stop eating it. You know, be okay throwing away food, right? People feel like, oh, you know, I paid for this, I gotta eat it. It's like, uh, yeah, but you're gonna go pay a trainer on Friday to get you unfat. So like, yeah, you paid thirty dollars for the meal and you may be throwing away fifteen dollars worth of it. But you're gonna go pay a trainer a hundred bucks on Friday. So like, what are we doing here? We're working against ourselves. Um, so yeah, that's relatively true from the diet side.

• 38:43Anthony Pompliano?

  You know the three bite rule?

• 38:44Speaker 02

  No.

• 38:45Anthony Pompliano?

  I, I have a friend, uh, who go unnamed. He's like, uh, yeah, I, I eat dessert, like, sure. He's like, anyone asks me, yeah, I'll have dessert. He has three bites, though. He goes, cause the first bite makes you wanna have a little bit more. The second bite, you're like, damn, this is good. And the third one's like, alright, I'm done.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:59Anthony Pompliano?

  And he's like, I just have three bites, no matter what it is. He didn't care if you gave him a, a whole pie or whatever. Like, he's gonna eat three bites and then he won't eat anymore. And he's like, those three bites satisfy whatever I need and I move on.

• 39:10Speaker 02

  Well, I approached sugar like a drug many years ago. You know, this was when I was working at Google where I was like, you know, uh, I started having a lot of success, kind of switching my training style to the way I do now. Um, in about twenty fourteen. And that served as a catalyst to say, well, you know, what else can I experiment with in my diet? Oh, you know, I'm eating these M and M's every afternoon, do I need to? Oh, what happens if I, you know, mix my M and M's with almonds? What happens if I, you know, progressively overload the almonds relative to the M and M's? So, you know, I'm starting with a one to one ratio and then it's a one to two ratio, then it's a one to five ratio. And I realized that like, sugar is like a drug in the sense that you will love the amount you eat.

• 39:49Speaker 02

  Whether that amount is, you know, a half pound a day or an ounce a day, like, that's the amount that your body likes. And so it's just like, what, i- if you want to be the happiest person possible, what's the optimal amount of alcohol to consume? It's like, well, the people who consume ten drinks a day, which is the top decile of Americans, they're probably not as happy as the people who are consuming like, one drink a day. Right? People who drink one drink a day on average, they might be happier than the people who drink zero drinks a day. Cause they're like going out, they're being social occasionally. So I looked at sugar very similarly to any other drug where it's like, okay, consuming zero is not sustainable. I don't wanna be a sugar tea totaller, but consuming more than a minimal amount gives no value to my life.

• 40:33Anthony Pompliano?

  So what do you eat? Like, what, what sugar do you consume? Do you just like? Pick out on ice cream, do you eat stinkers bars? What do you eat?

• 40:40Speaker 02

  It tends to be healthier ingredients. So like Hugh chocolate, I love Hugh chocolate.

• 40:45Anthony Pompliano?

  That's the one that comes in like the brown, paper bag looking thing?

• 40:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's Gucci chocolate prices. You know, you gotta be shelling out like eight bucks for these bars. But you know, if your chocolate's expensive, you can't eat that much of it.

• 40:57Anthony Pompliano?

  What is there, like what's so good about that chocolate?

• 40:59Speaker 02

  Uh, there's only about seven or eight grams of sugar per ounce, or if you compare that to a traditional candy bar. Traditional candy bar will have like 15 to 20 grams per ounce. Um, so it's got a lot less sugar. Uh, it's got much cleaner ingredients. So you know, it doesn't have like the, the soy lecithin as a, to act as an emulsifier. Um, so it doesn't have like a lot of the ingredients that people will consume that may have adverse effects on their metabolism and their endocrine system. And, uh, but primarily it's the lower sugar.

• 41:28Anthony Pompliano?

  And then what about, uh, a lot of the brands that make protein shakes or, uh, uh, C4 or NO explode? Or like all those different brands, they now have come out with, uh, uh, peanut butter cups and like all these types of what appear to be desserts or candies. But they're, you know, less than one gram of sugar, they claim and 15 grams of protein or whatever their like, you know, pitch is.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 41:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Is that all bullshit or are these, uh, companies actually figuring this out?

• 41:54Speaker 02

  Uh, I haven't looked at the ingredient list because I don't eat that many supplements, but, um, I'll give you the pros and cons of the best case scenario. The best case scenario is they're using clean ingredients. So they're using very similar ingredients to a huge chocolate and they're just mixing in a protein powder with it. Ideally, a clean source, either, uh, uh, you know, an organic whey protein. They're probably not using an organic whey protein, collagen protein, collagen peptide protein. You can make delicious desserts, um, with, with those ingredients. I have some in my recipe book where it's like, I eat dessert. I just, you know, try to, uh, have a little bit of protein when I can, um, and not that much sugar. The challenge that, that they have as well as the challenge with every artificial sweetener is

• 42:36Speaker 02

  I have found for me personally, that artificial sweeteners actually make me crave sugar. And so you might not be eating sugar when you eat that artificially sweetened peanut butter cup. But if you're eating something that makes you crave sugar later, is it, you know, the, the impacts of that meal cannot be confined to that meal because it's going to dictate what you're going to be eating later that day. Most people don't report having their cravings change, like substantially altered by consuming a stevia or a sweetener alternative. But I think they're wrong. I think they just don't understand the signals that their body's giving them.

• 43:13Speaker 02

  And I actually think that a much larger percentage of the population has their sugar cravings changed with the addition of artificial sweeteners. So I would not advocate eating those, you know, ad nauseam.

• 43:26Anthony Pompliano?

  What about fruit? They say fruit got a lot of sugar. You're not gonna eat too much fruit.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Is that true?

• 43:31Speaker 02

  If you're eating like whole fruit, it's probably okay.

• 43:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Like if you go to the grocery store, I do this, right? Maybe tell me I'm an idiot. I go to the grocery store and you know, they got like the little plastic, you know, yeah, I, I touch the plastic. But in it, they got all the fruits cut up and it's like a fruit bowl.

• 43:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:45Anthony Pompliano?

  And I grab it and I eat like a whole one every day. Is that good?

• 43:49Speaker 02

  I think that's fine. I mean, the, the challenge.

• 43:52Anthony Pompliano?

  It tastes good as shit.

• 43:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, I mean, it's one thing if you're putting it into a blender and you're blending out like sixty-four ounces of smoothies, of fruit smoothies in a day. I don't think you're doing that.

• 44:01Anthony Pompliano?

  No.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  If we're talking about like real food, you know, unless, unless your consumption is just at the extreme tail end, which I don't think it is based on what you're saying, it's probably going to be okay.

• 44:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, well, I think of it as, there's probably is some sugar, you know, whatever, like there's something in it that definitely, I'm like, man, I could eat a chocolate bar or I could eat this. It feels like this is healthier than the chocolate bar. And then also, a lot of times, like that's a snack, right? So it's like, I feel like I am hungry, but I'm not hungry enough to eat an entire meal. And so this is something that like, kind of like holds me over almost.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:37Anthony Pompliano?

  To some degree. And I usually eat it in the kind of middle afternoon also because I don't want to drink coffee.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:44Anthony Pompliano?

  At like three thirty, four o'clock, but I'm like, oh, I could use like a little bit more energy.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:49Anthony Pompliano?

  And so I tend to eat, you know, like fruit, something like that. Which I guess it just works for me.

• 44:53Speaker 02

  Well, if it works for you, it works for you. And I think that's a great point that you brought up, you know, comparing it to a chocolate bar. It's like, oh, this is healthier than a chocolate bar. A lot of the framework of my intuitive diet was actually influenced by, you know, my background in investing. Being an economics major at Vanderbilt and really approaching it like, okay, what additional value is this thing? Is this food choice giving me relative to the alternative and at what cost? And is it worth it? Oh, if this fruit tastes ninety-five percent as good as the Snickers bar. But only impacts my body. Let's say, let's say it does impact your body negatively for example sake. But the negative impact to my body is only ten percent of what the Snickers bar is.

• 45:36Anthony Pompliano?

  It's worth it.

• 45:36Speaker 02

  I should choose that fruit all the time.

• 45:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. What about coffee?

• 45:40Speaker 02

  I love coffee.

• 45:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. How many coffee, how much coffee you drink a day?

• 45:43Speaker 02

  Well, today I've only had one, but I'm.

• 45:45Anthony Pompliano?

  I get an average day.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  Uh, probably two or three.

• 45:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Two or three cups of coffee?

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:49Anthony Pompliano?

  So that's like, uh, maybe three hundred and fifty milligrams of caffeine, something like that?

• 45:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I, I've been trying to think of, uh, what the optimal amount of caffeine is. It's a very long story, but I'll, I'll make it quick. Uh, I think a large at Starbucks, I know it's not called large, but whatever the large thing. Has like four hundred milligrams of caffeine supposedly, if you Google it. But I'm like, there's no way this actually has four hundred milligrams of caffeine. But if you Google, that's what it says.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:14Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? And so if you drink that in the morning, like you pretty much are tapped out for the day. Like you probably shouldn't drink more caffeine later.

• 46:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 46:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh, but what I usually do is if I drink that, then I'll have like a shot of espresso or something later. Around like one o'clock or so.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 46:30Anthony Pompliano?

  So then you start playing and you're like, well, actually, maybe you shouldn't drink the large coffee if it does actually have the four hundred milligrams, which is questionable. Uh, maybe you should just drink like two or three shots of espresso, which, you know, ninety milligrams or so of caffeine per shot, like. Okay, now you're still in that three fifty, four hundred range, but you're actually like spreading it out through the day, but you're not pushing too far into the late afternoon where then it affects your sleep.

• 46:51Speaker 02

  Right. So I, I tell people that the optimal amount of coffee or caffeine to consume. Is the amount right up until it starts affecting your hydration or sleep. And that's going to be different person to person. Some people might, might consume a hundred and fifty milligrams of, of caffeine, which is like a cup, cup and a half of coffee. At noon and they might not be able to go to sleep that night. I was like, okay, well, you can't do that. That's too much for you. Other people can drink coffee and like go to bed right after. Now, I doubt their sleep is as deep when they do that, but fine if they don't know if there's not an obvious adverse impact to drinking coffee, um, then it's it's most likely okay. And if you look at a lot of the studies, like the the studies that tell told people to not drink coffee,

• 47:33Speaker 02

  they didn't isolate for alcohol consumption. So what they found was that, oh, if you drink a lot of coffee, you die sooner. It's like, yeah, because like the people who are drinking a lot of coffee are hung over every morning.

• 47:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, but I also but I also just saw a study that says the exact opposite. It says like basically if you drink caffeine, uh, it could extend your life.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 47:51Anthony Pompliano?

  It's like, I kind of feel like the scientists are full of shit because they do these different studies and they come to, you know, same study, different conclusions, like what's going on?

• 47:58Speaker 02

  Well, they're they're improperly isolating for variables. So if you if you look at caffeine consumption relative to longevity, it's possible that it's negatively cor- in fact, it's probably negatively correlated to longevity.

• 48:10Anthony Pompliano?

  You think so?

• 48:11Speaker 02

  Except for the fact that when you account for the fact that

• 48:16Speaker 02

  a lot of the people who are drinking a lot of the coffee are hung over every morning, right? So if you just say, okay, person, if you just look at the cohort that drinks like under seven alcoholic drinks a week, and then you look at their caffeine consumption and you compare their longevity, what you likely see is a positive correlation between caffeine consumption and longevity. But if you include everybody, well, the people who consume the highest amount of caffeine are also commonly consuming the highest amount of alcohol. So the reason why their longevity is diminished is not because of the caffeine, it's because of the alcohol. But if you mix them all together in the same study, it's going to say, oh, wow, look at like, ooh, it looks like the high caffeine consumers are going to die young.

• 48:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Alcohol makes you dehydrated?

• 48:55Speaker 02

  That's one thing it does.

• 48:56Anthony Pompliano?

  And caffeine makes you dehydrated?

• 48:57Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 48:58Anthony Pompliano?

  So people who drink a lot of alcohol at night and they drink a lot of coffee during the day, are they just on like a wheel of dehydration and they're like severely and uh, uh, just persistently dehydrated?

• 49:10Speaker 02

  That's one thing that they are. They're probably also persistently fatigued because if you drink a lot of alcohol at night, your sleep is going to be at much lower quality. And then during the day, you know, you're you're loading up with caffeine, you're going to just feel like you're running on empty by the time you get to the, you know, the afternoon.

• 49:25Anthony Pompliano?

  How many hours do you sleep at night?

• 49:26Speaker 02

  Um, six or seven. I I try to do better than that.

• 49:28Anthony Pompliano?

  Damn, six or seven?

• 49:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I want to do more. Well, you know, I got, you know, genetics to work through.

• 49:34Anthony Pompliano?

  What?

• 49:34Speaker 02

  I stopped sleeping well when I was like 17 years old.

• 49:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Cause you're not working hard enough during the day.

• 49:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's gotta be, that's gotta be it.

• 49:41Anthony Pompliano?

  If you, I forget who said it, one of like the Stokes or whatever, basically said something to the effect of like, if you have a full day, then you have a full night of sleep. You just gotta work hard and then you sleep better.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, the challenges, the challenges come when you're lying in bed, thinking about the full day of work that you have the next day.

• 49:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I know.

• 49:56Speaker 02

  Things start spinning and you just don't go to bed.

• 49:59Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, so, uh, so the caffeine makes sense. Uh, what about pre-workout? Uh, when you and I have known each other for a long time now. Uh, when I was, I don't know, maybe starting around the age of like 16 or 17. Like I was in, in high school, I was, uh, playing sports and I was like, this weightlifting thing, that seems like that's important.

• 50:23Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm a young kid, how do I get as jacked as possible before I go into the weight room? And then just do everything. Like that was literally my mentality, I was an idiot. It worked. I would take whatever, whatever supplement you could find. If it was in the store and it could get me jacked up to go into the weight room, I was taking it, I tried it. And so when I got to college, like you get smarter, right? You start to understand like, okay, like this makes me super jittery, this doesn't, whatever. And, uh, maybe I actually didn't get that much smarter. The two things that most guys were taking in college, um, was, uh, NOXplod.

• 51:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:01Anthony Pompliano?

  And, uh, C4. And there was like debates of like, oh, the NOXplod, yeah, like your face tingles and like the, your arms are tingling or whatever. Uh, the C4 was like cleaner, but guys would argue like the C4 didn't work because I couldn't feel it.

• 51:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 51:15Anthony Pompliano?

  My guess is that both of these are horrible for you, but like, how do you, like, how do you underwrite, uh, pre-workout in terms of it being healthy? Not healthy, worth it, not worth it?

• 51:24Speaker 02

  It's like a total scam.

• 51:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, like.

• 51:29Speaker 02

  You know, do these things help? Like, maybe, you know, I've, I've read, you know,

• 51:33Anthony Pompliano?

  There's nothing else that made my face tingle like that before.

• 51:35Speaker 02

  Right, right, right. It's like, okay, so I don't take any of these supplements. I've never taken any of these supplements. And people online think I take steroids all the time. So if, if you look at like, what is important to execute in a, a training plan or a diet and fitness lifestyle, it's like, what you eat and how you train is way more important than the supplements you take. Sure, if you take creatine, whether creatine HCl, creatine monohydrate studies show that that should positively affect your gains. That being said, you know, I got to 4%, 5% body fat, just taking a multivitamin and like fish oil, right? And my only pre-workout was coffee. And it still is my only pre-workout is coffee.

• 52:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you think that pre-workout is a bigger scam than the multivitamins?

• 52:18Anthony Pompliano?

  I feel like the multivitamins are scams too. You're telling me they packed 64 different vitamins into that little pill?

• 52:23Speaker 02

  Well, I'm telling you that I, I take it with no expectation of its efficacy because it take, it costs 25 cents or 10 cents or whatever. And I think, okay, worst case scenario, I piss it out.

• 52:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  Right? So I'll pop that in the morning, no big deal. And if some of it sticks, it sticks. And if most of it doesn't, that's okay too. With the, with the pre-workout, you know, that gets in people's psychology. They're like, oh, I need to have my NO explode, otherwise I can't train. It's like, dude, you can train. Like, and, and if you have coffee in your system, well, you know, NO explode has caffeine, but like, if you have coffee in your system, like, that to me is fine. Or if you, you know, if your stomach doesn't handle coffee that well, cold brew or some other caffeinated drink.

• 52:58Anthony Pompliano?

  I think that like the NO explodes specifically, because that's the one I, I used to take all the time. It was, there's caffeine, right? Which I think is like, actually the thing that really gets people kind of addicted to it is like, I, I want to feel like I'm caffeinated going in to go work out. The second thing though, is there's all of the like oxygenation that's happening in the bloodstream, whatever. It's been too long. I've, I haven't liked this stuff in a long time. But there's like that feeling of the pump, right? And to some degree, it almost feels kind of like, you know, it's like a drug high, right? Like, you get the drug high, like, oh, I need that again. If you go and you work out, I don't know if that actually affects like the training itself as much as it, it's the feeling. Feeling and it's like tricking someone into like, I need this again or not?

• 53:41Speaker 02

  It it should impact training. You know, if you can get better blood flow, you know, what's the purpose of warming up? It's like a lot of it's to get good blood flow. So if you can get better circulation, when you train, you should train better. That being said, I think you're right in in that it does lead to a better pump. And that's what people, you know, to my earlier point, for, uh, you know, people misjudging the efficacy of workouts. The pump that people get from a workout is not that well correlated with the efficacy of a workout. But it's what what the most proximal symptom is when you're done training. You look in the mirror, you got veins coming out of your arms and you're like, oh, okay. Yeah, this I got a great workout in. It's like, you don't know that. You're not going to know that for like several days, whether you got a good workout in.

• 54:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Is is there like high sugar in that stuff or anything that people should be worried about as well? Like in a lot of the pre workouts, like obviously there's the caffeine, there's all the NO whatever, you know, stuff. But is there also like the detrimental from like a diet standpoint where they should be worried?

• 54:35Speaker 02

  That would probably be one of the least likely time periods that one might worry about sugar consumption. Yeah, because you're gonna go burn it. Now, if you're diabetic, obviously you have like different issues than somebody who's not. But, um, yeah, if you're going to be consuming sugar, the best time to consume it is right before, right after, during workouts. You know, will that impact your cravings for for sugar later in the day? Yeah, it probably will. But you're you're doing it at a time where it's actually likely to lead to increased gym output, which is okay in my book.

• 55:05Anthony Pompliano?

  You ever heard of Endurox? Yeah, you you didn't know I you didn't know I was fucking well skilled here.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  Take me deep in the game.

• 55:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Endurox is something that a lot of athletes would use, especially like football players and things like that. Where, uh, it has a unique combination of, uh, really high intensity cardio sprinting, all that type of stuff. But then also a lot of, uh, physical, uh, like combat in terms of, you know, pushing and pulling and doing all that stuff during practice. Uh, it's all about recovery. So you would, uh, I know guys who did a lot of crazy shit before practice. But after practice, basically put the Endurox in water, shake it up and you drink it on your way to go get food or whatever. And it's supposed to help you recover. Again, whether it works or not, who knows? Uh, but it was like a hydration and a recovery, whatever. And so when I was in college, I don't remember what year in college, it must have been

• 55:54Anthony Pompliano?

  over 21, given that this involves alcohol. So he was making jungle juice. And for those that don't know jungle juice, you basically have like, what do you call it, like?

• 56:05Speaker 02

  Kool aid tub.

• 56:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, like Kool aid. That's definitely not what they're called. But that is what it is used for. It's like a, like a tub that you would get with like a cap on it or whatever. Get it at Walmart, super cheap. And you just pour a bunch of stuff into it and you make an alcoholic drink. And so a lot of it is Kool aid and kind of juices and things like that. You could see somebody pour a red Kool aid, then orange juice, then all kinds of weird shit, and then a bunch of alcohol. And so I remember it was in someone's dorm room, they're sitting there making it, and it was a full player's dorm room. And all of a sudden, he was like, looking around, like, what else could he pour in there? And he just took an entire kind of bucket of the Endurox, and it was flavors, like watermelon flavor or something. He was like, well, this shit's got flavor in it. And he dumped it

• 56:51Anthony Pompliano?

  in. And the only reason why I remember this is because people were hammered.

• 56:57Speaker 02

  Really?

• 56:58Anthony Pompliano?

  For the entire night, but not like different than what you would expect from jungle juice, whatever.

• 57:02Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 57:03Anthony Pompliano?

  The next morning, no one had a hangover.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  Because it had electrolytes in it.

• 57:07Anthony Pompliano?

  And so I remember thinking to myself, like, kind of joking, but also kind of being like, huh, if I was like, actually cared that much, I'd like go look at the science. I was like, wow, you're actually able to probably pour things into these alcoholic beverages, which prevent the dehydration, which allow for better recovery, like do all this type of stuff. And so it became like a joke of like, oh, make sure the Endurox is in the jungle juice. But like now that I think I'm probably a little bit more educated in terms of how this stuff works, like, it does seem like there are certain things that people can do if you are going to drink, that could at least, maybe not reverse the effects or completely mitigate it, but like, it could be more beneficial type of drinking than, hey, let me just go drink a bunch of beer and like, hope I'm okay tomorrow morning.

• 57:52Speaker 02

  Right, right, right. I think, you know, limiting mixed drinks is a big one, because I've found if I have more than one mixed drink, I'm gonna have a hangover the next day.

• 57:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Because it's the juice plus, or the sugar in it.

• 58:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Sugar plus alcohol equals hangover.

• 58:04Anthony Pompliano?

  So Red Bull vodkas are bad?

• 58:05Speaker 02

  Correct. Don't know about the sugar-free Red Bull vodkas. Not prepared to comment on those. But yeah, you want to make sure you're having a lot of water because the alcohol will dehydrate you. One thing that I've also started doing, you know, a couple nights a month that I will have a drink, is I'll consider having a little bit more melatonin supplementation. I take a melatonin supplement nightly. But I know that if I'm introducing something to my body that's going to dysregulate my sleep, I can either just have a night of shitty sleep, or I can, you know, maybe have an extra couple milligrams of melatonin, and I'm still not going to sleep great, but I'll probably sleep a little bit better than if I didn't have that.

• 58:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Damn, you just told me, I told you before we started I had a bad night of sleep. I switched up my tea last night.

• 58:51Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Now that I think about, I was trying to think, what did I do differently? Why did I have a bad night of sleep? I usually sleep like a baby. Why did I sleep differently? The tea that I drink every single night is chamomile tea that has some melatonin in it. Last night, I had run out, and there was another tea, it was chamomile tea, but there was no melatonin. And I bet you that that actually had a bigger impact than I thought.

• 59:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. Problem solved.

• 59:13Anthony Pompliano?

  This whole conversation is we're just solving my own problems. No, but like, this is like, actually interesting, because like, there is like inputs and outputs, right? And as you start to learn it, and you know, I was thinking, I'm like, I know I slept worse last night than in previous nights. And again, let's just hold constant like that is what it is. You can quickly just revert back and say, okay, I know I need to do this, and then I'll get good sleep and continue. So it sounds like you pretty much know what your nighttime routine is before you go to sleep to make sure you have the best night's sleep you can.

• 59:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the more regular your routine is for anything, the easier it is to troubleshoot anything, right? If you consistently eat and train a certain way, and something changes in your life, it's much easier to say, okay, what did I change? I do the same thing every day. The only thing that changed was X, Y, Z. Therefore, I must change X, or Y, or Z if I want to get back to, you know, where I was.

• 1:00:12Anthony Pompliano?

  So what do you do before you go to sleep?

• 1:00:13Speaker 02

  Well, if I'm in a state where it's legal, I will consume some THC. I've actually found-

• 1:00:20Anthony Pompliano?

  What is that? How do you do that?

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  Like edibles. I found that, you know-

• 1:00:24Anthony Pompliano?

  That's weed for people that don't know.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, marijuana.

• 1:00:28Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, if you say marijuana, they think you're a cop. I read the YouTube comments. They say marijuana, it means you're a cop.

• 1:00:33Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. Yeah, so if it's legal, nothing affects my quality of sleep better than that.

• 1:00:43Anthony Pompliano?

  And is this just act like a melatonin type? Like, it's like almost putting you to sleep?

• 1:00:47Speaker 02

  A little bit. It just shuts my brain down. Or sometimes it speeds it up to the point where it shuts it down. And I don't know if that's like mild ADHD or whatever. But, you know, from the time I was a Division One baseball player to when I got drafted by the Rockies, played a couple of years in their system, my sleep quality just went like this. And I was talking to some of the guys about this before we started, about how like playing professional baseball, you know, every day can be your last day. It's like, can you imagine coming to work where literally any day you can be fired? Like, all the time, constantly. You're always on the hot seat. And, you know, obviously, it became challenging for me to sleep under those conditions. And so, you know, early twenties, you're like, oh, self-medicate, go have a couple of drinks or something like that. And then-

• 1:01:32Anthony Pompliano?

  It just makes your sleep worse.

• 1:01:33Speaker 02

  Well, yeah. It's a temporary solution that ends up with long-term problems. And so I found, like, I never wanted to consume weed because I thought, well, you know, it lowers your testosterone, lowers your sleep quality, blah, blah, blah. Well, you know, like, I was in San Francisco, I was gonna consume what was available to me in San Francisco, and I just noticed in my late twenties, like, wow, I seem to sleep so much better when I consume this. And so eventually, like, in my late twenties, I just kind of basically stopped drinking, like, a couple of times a month or something like that. And just, you know, switched over to consuming edibles. And that got my sleep schedule much more regular.

• 1:02:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Does it lower your testosterone?

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  It may. My testosterone's very average. Right? So that's something that people, surprises people, where if you look at, you know, you follow me on Twitter, follow me on Instagram, you're seeing all the food I eat, you know, looking at me with, you know, shirtless and seeing all the abs- And everything. It's like, no, my testosterone is very average. And I think that, you know, it could be, I don't know if it's genetic. I never tested it when I was younger.

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  But it is possible that, you know, introducing THC into into my routine has lowered it. At the same time, it's like, well, do I have any of the symptoms of low testosterone? Like, no, not really. So it's like, all right, well, I think it's probably okay. Or mid range testosterone. Yeah.

• 1:02:48Anthony Pompliano?

  This episode is brought to you by FTX US. They're the safe, regulated way to buy and sell Bitcoin and other digital assets. Trade crypto with up to 85% lower fees than the top competitors. There are no fixed minimums, no ACH transaction fees and no withdrawal fees. Download the FTX app today and use referral code POMP to earn free crypto on every trade over $10. The more you trade, the more you earn. Go download the FTX app today and use referral code POMP. This episode is brought to you by Compass Mining, the world's largest marketplace for mining hardware and hosting. With Compass, everyone can mine Bitcoin. You can do it at home or in one of their 23 hosting facilities around the world. All you need to do to start mining your own Bitcoin is go to compassmining.io today.

• 1:03:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Again, if you want to get into Bitcoin mining, go check out compassmining.io today. This episode is brought to you by Valor, which represents what's next in the digital economy. They provide simplified trusted access in crypto, decentralized finance and Web3 investment opportunities. Institutions and investors can gain diversified, secure, compliant and easily tradable access to a diversified set of industry-leading equity products and protocols, all through a single stock purchase on a regulated exchange. They currently are listed in the US under the DEFTF stock ticker and on the Canadian NEO exchange under DEFI. For more information or to subscribe to receive company updates and financial information, visit their website at valour.com. That's V A L O U R dot com.

• 1:04:17Anthony Pompliano?

  And when you think about testosterone, like are there things you do to try to increase the testosterone or not really? Just lifting heavy and kind of high intensity cardio pretty much takes care of it?

• 1:04:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, and sleeping enough and not overdoing it. So I'll tell you an example of a guy named Mason who joined the group training. That I run, I started running it about a year and a half ago and online group and he joined, he saw the program. And he'd been following me on Twitter for over a year prior to then seeing all the food, seeing all the training and he liked me. And so he wanted to take the next step. He bought my masterclass. He wanted to take the next step and actually have me be his hands on coach. And so he looks at all the training materials. His first response is there's no fucking way it can be this easy. He just thinks, oh, this is like an online scam. This guy's like, you know, if he's taking steroids, whatever, but there's no way that you can train this way and eat this way and get those results.

• 1:05:09Speaker 02

  But he trusted me, fortunately. He trusted me. He did the program for eight weeks. And after eight weeks, he tested his testosterone level before starting. And he tested after his testosterone at forty seven years old went from five hundred and fifty to eight hundred and eighty, right?

• 1:05:24Anthony Pompliano?

  What's that mean?

• 1:05:25Speaker 02

  Which is about the same as taking a small dose of steroids. And so it basically it's the equivalent of getting like forty years younger, right? You know, the average person who's sixty goes back to being twenty years old in their testosterone level. And, you know, thinking about what he was doing before, he was training too much, right? He thought he had to be in there all the time, you know, can't miss a workout. Small percentage of the populations like this, they're hyper disciplined. They think if they stop training for a day or a week, they're going to like regress to their fat self that they were thirty five years ago. It's like, dude, it's not going to happen. And when they start resting more and doing less, they realize that they can train at a higher intensity.

• 1:06:05Speaker 02

  And their metabolism and endocrine system re-regulates to where it naturally should be or could be. They just never realized that their entire lives.

• 1:06:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Is it worse to overtrain or to not train?

• 1:06:18Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. Polar extremes. It's probably worse to not train. Now, well, how extreme are, how extreme are we overtraining is the better question. Ronnie Coleman overtrained, right? Ronnie Coleman's got sixteen screws in his back. Is he less healthy than somebody who never trained and is the same age? He probably is. So if we're gonna, if we're gonna go extreme, extreme, then it could be, overtraining could be worse, but. Overtraining in the, the more traditional sense, it's actually really dangerous. You know, I got my best friend growing up. His dad used to run ten, fifteen, twenty miles like every day. He's addicted to running and this is true with a lot of, a lot of people who are addicted to running. You start looking at, at them when they're sixty, sixty-five, their joints start breaking down.

• 1:07:01Speaker 02

  Cause and they, they run on pavement because it felt fine in their thirties. And all of a sudden it really hits them hard when they hit sixty, sixty-five. Well, this guy used to be killer, like he'd be running like a hundred miles a week in his forties. And then by the time he hit sixty-five, he ran a marathon when he was like sixty, sixty-five. And then like two years later, his back gives out. Cause it's like his back just couldn't handle the repetitive stress of essentially overtraining for so many years. So is he less healthy than somebody who is basically sedentary his entire life? Possibly uncertain.

• 1:07:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Depends how you measure it.

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  They're both bad.

• 1:07:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:36Anthony Pompliano?

  When you think of a lot of the food stuff as well, uh, men and women, any differences? Or older people and younger people? Or do you think that the diet and training may be, uh, kind of the same thing works across, uh, genders and also age?

• 1:07:50Speaker 02

  My system, my specific system works better for men and athletic women. Reason being, um, the more muscle mass you have, the easier it is to diet intuitively. The less muscle mass you have, um, you, you kind of either need to eat at a caloric deficit, which I know I hate, like basically go hungry if you want to lose fat. And it's only temporary, like you don't really have the muscle mass to sustain a powerful metabolism. So you first, in my view, most likely need to build, uh, focus on building muscle first. What also happens, like a lot of times women around, uh, you know, around their monthly cycle, they'll get cravings for sugar and it's like, okay, if I'm, if I'm telling people, listen to your cravings and, and be responsible about them, but like give in to them slightly.

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  You can't tell somebody who has massive sugar cravings to give in to their sugar cravings because that's just gonna be the first step to getting them down a path of eating bad stuff. So, does my system work for women? Yes, it works for some women, but it doesn't work for as many women as it works for men. It's much more common for men, particularly men who played like a varsity sport in high school. The closer you are to that, the more likely it is that your results will align with all the other people who've had tremendous success with my system.

• 1:09:04Anthony Pompliano?

  What about stress? Like, I feel like there's times where people are super stressed out and their whole diet, training, everything falls apart. And I know other people who are like, yo, I'm super stressed out, I'm gonna go to the gym, come back like a new person, right? The stress relief. And so, how do you think about stress?

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  Stress is really interesting, and I actually have a hypothesis for why people are fat, like, another hypothesis for why people are fat. And it is, what does stress do to your hunger levels? And my hypothesis is skinny people become less hungry when they're stressed out, and fat people become more hungry when they're stressed out.

• 1:09:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Why?

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  Well, if you just ask people, you know, because part of me working with people and training intuitively is like, do you eat more or do you eat less when you're stressed? And typically, the people who are underweight eat less when they're stressed, and typically the people who are overweight eat more than when they're stressed. And so, I think your stress hormones will scramble up your hunger signals. For me personally, they make me less hungry. So, I have to overeat when I'm stressed if I don't want to lose muscle mass. Probably more people have to be more careful about the types of food they eat when they're stressed. But the gym, the gym is the best antidepressant that you can find, right? I got off of the plane, I didn't sleep that well on Saturday night because I had to get

• 1:10:20Speaker 02

  up early to fly on Sunday, so I probably slept like five hours or something like that on Saturday night. First thing I did when I got off the plane to Miami is I went straight to the gym. Actually, I went straight to Dunkin' Donuts to get coffee, but then I went straight to the gym after I got coffee. And I worked out for a couple hours and I felt great.

• 1:10:39Anthony Pompliano?

  They say, they say that that actually, especially like red eyes or time zone changes or whatever. If you, as soon as you land, you go and you work out, whether it's at the hotel, body weight, whatever. It's supposed to like basically make the jet lag much less.

• 1:10:51Speaker 02

  Yes. And I've found that like, especially, you know, when I was working in crypto, going to Asia. I found that my jet lag routine is like pretty good as far as, you know, it would probably take me about thirty six hours. From flying from San Francisco to Hong Kong or Beijing to get acclimated to the time zone there, eighty, ninety percent. Where, you know, a lot of my colleagues my age, it would take three, four, or five days for them to get back on, back on that schedule. And you think especially if you're a traveling executive or you're taking a lot of, you know, cross time zone flights. Like you need to get your body back on schedule as soon as possible. Like that's crucial. And, and figuring out how to fly and how to train very much helped that.

• 1:11:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. So when you think about stress, it feels like a lower stress life is better in general, both for longevity, for regulating what you eat, for being able to train with a routine. Or do you think some degree of stress is actually healthy and good and has some benefit?

• 1:11:46Speaker 02

  Well, it's a balance, right? So if you look at like no stress. A good example could either be people who, who know they're going to inherit billions of dollars when they grow up. Though their lives typically don't go as well as one might think. Or you could look at the rat studies where they're like, oh, what, what happens if we give rats like everything that they want? And they just don't have to worry about food. They don't have to worry about anything. It's like, oh, they started cannibalizing themselves and they stopped learning how to like take care of their kids. So the human body and the human mind cannot actually exist in a stressless state permanently. What you want to avoid is chronic stress. You know, every day I wake up and I'm worried about paying my bills.

• 1:12:29Speaker 02

  Every day I wake up and I'm worried about what my boss is going to tell me. The right amount of stress is acute measured stress. So you go to the gym, that's stress. You're putting your body through a stressful routine, but it's acute. You're not training sixteen hours a day, right? If you're in mergers and acquisitions and you're working eighty hour weeks, like that's not the type of stress that's healthy. If you're going through an intense thirty, sixty minutes every day. Where you can build up to that stressful event and then come down from it. Finger to the wind, that's probably the right amount of stress. You can't have too much, you can't have too little. Goldilocks, you gotta have the right amount.

• 1:13:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And then how do you think about stress in your life? Like, it seems like you lead a pretty low-stress life. And I know you've talked a lot about monetizing your life. Have you talked about that?

• 1:13:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, you know, the... People tell me that I'm really efficient at figuring out what is the shortest, quickest path between two points. And, you know, if I want to live a lifestyle, you know, when I'm younger, I wanted to be very rich, right? Because everyone who's young wants to be really rich. And, you know, as I got older, I found that it was a lot easier to build like modest wealth than extreme wealth. And so if, you know, if I'm 36 years old and I have modest but not extreme wealth, well, what would I do if I were extremely wealthy? I would work out all the time, I would eat delicious food, and I would kind of like go and not answer to a boss. Those are kind of the three things that would change compared to my corporate life if I were really wealthy. And it's like, okay, well, if I don't have a hundred million dollars,

• 1:13:57Speaker 02

  but I have, I make enough money getting paid to do the things that I would do anyway.

• 1:14:04Speaker 02

  What's really that different? Right? Like, I wake up. Yeah, it's like, I didn't have to actually take the steps to build that massive wealth empire. I do what I want to do with my day, and I get on with it. And so the more you can figure out how to get paid for doing the things that you already do, that you're already interested in, the easier it is to make money and the easier it is to enjoy your life while you're making money. Will you become a billionaire that way? Probably not, but you may. Because if you're really interested in something, you're probably going to end up hyper-fixated on it and learning more about it than the next guy. And so one thing that I tell people, because I also do, you know, life coaching, business coaching, career coaching, because so much of fitness overlaps with mindset, and I did work in tech for 10 years,

• 1:14:49Speaker 02

  is figure out how to get paid for the thing that makes you weird. Because everybody's trying to find out, find a unique selling point. Everybody's trying to figure out what their point of differentiation is. And it's like, okay, rather than try to be somebody you're not, to separate yourself from the pack, look yourself in the mirror and figure out, why do all my friends think I'm a total fucking weirdo? And figure out how to get paid on that because nobody's going to be able to replicate your weirdness that's innate to you.

• 1:15:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, what are some examples of people like, what are they weird about that they end up monetizing?

• 1:15:20Speaker 02

  It like, let's look at Mark Zuckerberg, right? Mark Zuckerberg at 21, 22 years old turned down the opportunity to have Facebook acquired for like a $200 million payout or something like that. How many 21, 22 year olds would say, yeah, you know, I'm gonna live, I'm just gonna sleep with some bros on sleep on a mattress or whatever. I'm kind of building this thing. I'm really interested in building the social network. Like, very few. Probably 99.99% of people, if given an offer to sell their startup at 21 years old for like a billion dollars or whatever the offer was, would take it. Right? So he's weird because, and you worked with him, but he's weird because like, how many

• 1:16:00Speaker 02

  other people could turn down that much money to build a project that they're that passionate about? Not that many.

• 1:16:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:10Speaker 02

  So he's, he's getting paid to do the thing that makes him weird.

• 1:16:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:13Speaker 02

  Right? Or in my situation, like, not that many people are going, like, not that many people actually want to have abs because it's just, it's a lot, it's a lot easier to kind of just not be fat. It's very easy to not be fat. It's a little bit harder to have abs. So most people will be like, oh, like, I'm in good shape. Like, why don't I just go eat these donuts? It's like, well, that's actually not the approach that got me here. What's, what's easier is to, to apply a sustainable approach day after day and let the results take care of themselves. And so because I was able to do that, I was able to attain the fitness results that I've attained, and all of a sudden I know about this system that I can teach to other people. And it didn't require me to go to school. It didn't require me to study for a test, you know, get stressed out worrying about a grade.

• 1:16:57Speaker 02

  It just required me to learn about the things I was interested in.

• 1:17:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Which then ends up, if you can monetize and build a business around it, then it feels like a lot of people are doing this now.

• 1:17:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:06Anthony Pompliano?

  And starting to understand like, the internet's pretty damn powerful.

• 1:17:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? And if you are successful in doing it, you're happier as well.

• 1:17:14Speaker 02

  Right. I mean, I, I felt like this when I was working in corporate America, like, my last few years, I was making a good salary. Like, I couldn't tell a random person on the internet, hey, I'm making X, and they'd be like, damn, that's a lot. I felt, I never felt like I was my own person until I started working for myself. Right. Because especially when you get into like higher income earning brackets, you're always around people who are more successful than you. And as a competitive person, you're always going to kind of do some comparisons and be like, man, like I wish I was doing that. I wish I was doing that. And so, you know, I always felt like when I was an employee, if I have to do a performance report or a performance review for somebody on a quarterly or annual basis, I always felt like that was degrading. I always felt like, dude, you guys are paying me. If you don't want to pay me, you don't have to.

• 1:17:56Speaker 02

  But like, I don't want to, I don't want to continue to show you why you're paying me the money you're paying me. If you want to stop, stop. If you want to keep doing it, do it. But don't make me go through this, what I consider to be like a little bit like demeaning process. And I understand why employers do it. I just felt like as an employee, it was a little bit demeaning to me.

• 1:18:13Anthony Pompliano?

  See, I don't think, I felt that way. Like, I did the quarterly reviews and stuff, right? Like, I always felt like it was like a feedback session. Like, maybe it depends, I guess, on like who the person conducting it is.

• 1:18:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you just do it, it can be done 10 different ways.

• 1:18:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, yeah. I guess it's like, some people do almost do it in a demeaning way where it's like, report to me the information and then I will tell you, you know, good job, bad job. Versus, maybe I was fortunate in that, like I'm thinking of one specific guy. He very much used it as like, okay, let's look at the things that like you feel aren't going well. And almost always it was like, the things I knew weren't going well. He also was like, yeah, those aren't going well. Let's figure out like how to like improve it. And it was almost like check-in points. But I guess maybe that's more of like a message to the people who conduct them, like,

• 1:18:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:18:56Anthony Pompliano?

  don't be an asshole.

• 1:18:58Speaker 02

  In the more cynical way, and the way that I came to look at them after working several years in corporate America is, oh, these are just a negotiation tactic. Because if you look at how promotional processes work at large companies, it takes a long time to get promoted from one level to the next level. And oftentimes, there's a talent mismatch where if you have, there's a lot of people at a certain level who are way more talented than the people who are a level above them. In sports, that would take care of itself over three weeks. We scrimmage together. You guys are better than those guys. You guys are on the starting team. But in a corporate setting, there's a financial incentive to keep people underemployed or under-titled. Because if you can keep somebody performing at level 10, paid at A level six, then you make more money as a company.

• 1:19:38Speaker 02

  And so what's, what is an easy way to keep people getting paid as a level six when they're performing as a level 10 is you identify various weaknesses that they have at their present level. Say, well, you're not doing that perfectly. You're not doing that perfectly. You're not doing that perfectly. It doesn't matter that the people three levels above wouldn't be doing that perfectly either. We want you fixated on the things that make you imperfect. So don't ask us for a promotion this year because it's going to take 18 months to 24 months.

• 1:20:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:08Anthony Pompliano?

  I, I, I've been on the other side of some of those conversations. You're like, I'm pretty sure that's not how this works, but okay, that is, that's fine. Talk a little bit about the content that you put out. Where can people go find it? What, what are some of the things if they want to learn more about the fitness or diet stuff?

• 1:20:23Speaker 02

  Just follow me on Twitter, you know, Alex Feinberg one on Twitter. A lot of my stuff is hosted on Gumroad, good third party site. And so, you know, you'll see a couple of links in my profile. If you want to check out my recipes, check out my, my training guide,

• 1:20:37Speaker 02

  fat loss system. And then every once in a while I'll run a masterclass sale. Keep an eye out for that, or you can go on Gumroad and just pick it up now if you wanted to. And my DMs are open. So if you have questions, whether you want to find me on Instagram, which is same Alex Feinberg one Twitter. I read all my DMs. I ignore the ones that are just trying to solicit me for money. But if you're not doing that, I will read it and I will most likely reply.

• 1:21:01Anthony Pompliano?

  You don't send one Bitcoin to get two back?

• 1:21:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I haven't, I haven't tried that.

• 1:21:07Speaker 02

  Me either. But just, just to the people who have the same profile picture as you.

• 1:21:11Anthony Pompliano?

  I, I, I do feel very bad. There's been a couple of times where I've been like another place. I'm thinking of one time I was in London and a, a guy came up to me at an event. He goes, pomp. He goes, man, we get to meet in person. Like he was like so excited and I was like.

• 1:21:26Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh no, I don't remember who this person is. And uh, he was like, no. He's like, remember, I'm the guy who sent the money. And I was like, uh, and I was like, what do you mean? And he had sent like, just enough money where I was like, oh, like, like, I felt like his pain, but not enough where I was like, your life's ruined.

• 1:21:46Speaker 02

  Like five or 10K.

• 1:21:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, like, like, I want to say it was like 7,500 bucks, like literally, right? Like, it was enough where I was like, fuck, right? But at the same time, I was like, dude, come on, right? Like, and so he whips out his phone, because I was like, what do you mean? And he like, he's like, no, look, and he pulls it out. And it was like, expert level scam like sequence, like Twitter, they had commented, they said, you know, message me on WhatsApp, then he had messaged on WhatsApp, then they had like moved him here, and then he'd sent money, and like this whole thing. And I just had to break it to him. Like, we were in the middle of an event, there's people everywhere, and I was like, hey, man, come over here. And I like, I was like, that's not me.

• 1:22:28Anthony Pompliano?

  And he was like, heartbroken, but at the same time, he was like, kind of shook. He said, what do you mean it's not you? And I was like, that's like a scam. And so, you know, one, just like the social platforms need to clean it up, obviously. But two, uh, uh, I had never really talked to someone. And like, what I realized was like, they like socially engineered it.

• 1:22:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:46Anthony Pompliano?

  They, they were able to, uh, it, there was nothing that they were doing that like would have made it obvious outside of the fact that, uh, if you knew my life and me and like all of a sudden, like, it's very obvious, like they had no clue what they were talking about. But they used the social, like, engineering components of it to literally get this guy to send money.

• 1:23:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:05Anthony Pompliano?

  I'd be like, holy shit.

• 1:23:06Speaker 02

  What's up with them moving the conversations to WhatsApp? Like, if you, if you're gonna scam people, why can't you scam them on the native platform?

• 1:23:12Anthony Pompliano?

  I, I think it's because on those platforms, what happens is, uh, the accounts can get reported and taken away, and then all the conversation, like, history is gone and everything. You, you don't have the connection with the people anymore.

• 1:23:23Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:23:23Anthony Pompliano?

  You get them to WhatsApp, like, I don't think I've ever reported a WhatsApp number.

• 1:23:28Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:23:28Anthony Pompliano?

  Right, to like, get taken down. So what they try to do is, uh, I think they like pop up, they have an account. Like shotgun blast to as many people as possible. Whoever fails the intelligence test and like responds, pull them to WhatsApp quickly. If I lose my Twitter, Instagram, you know, name your social platform account, then they have them on WhatsApp. And now they have the ability to communicate.

• 1:23:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I started getting some of these texts because I assume there's a data breach that released my phone number. And so I get these, I get a text message from someone like a few weeks ago. Hey, are you the golf coach? I'm like, I'm a coach, but I'm not a golf coach. Like, oh, my assistant must have set me up. What are you a coach? I like reply. And then like three replies later, I'm like, this is weird. Like, can we be friends? Like, why? What, you just want to be friends with some random person who you, who you miss messaged? And like, yeah, you know, you seem like we could be friends. Let's take this conversation to Telegram or to WhatsApp. I'm like, you already have my phone number. Like, what's going on here? So that makes sense that they bring it to a third party platform. They can't have their initial conversation flagged.

• 1:24:30Anthony Pompliano?

  I have a friend who, um, his number is definitely out there. Cause he gets all kinds of crazy ones. Now he gets them in like Chinese and like, uh, he gets sometimes random photos. Like he showed me one, it's just like literally, uh, it was just a photo of a woman with a dog. No, like nothing else, just like a photo. And I was like, why do you think they're sending that? He goes, I don't know if they're trying to get me to respond. I don't know what's going on here, but like, I'm not responding. And I was like, I think that's probably a pretty good idea. But he gets one like every day.

• 1:24:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:00Anthony Pompliano?

  And I was just like, I guess that's like some new scam, but I don't understand. Cause there's no links, there's no like request to do anything. I guess it's just like a social engineering, like, can you just enter into a conversation?

• 1:25:08Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, one of the things that we haven't even talked through as a society is you're going to have a lot of old people who are scammed out of a lot of money. Right? If we think it's bad now, like I look at some of these schemes, I'm like, ooh, that almost got me. I almost clicked on that link. Cause it's always, it gets you in a fearful state. It's never, you're like calm, like, okay, that's a scam. It's more like fraud alert, click that. And you're like, huh? No, don't do that. They're just trying to pull my trigger, pull my buttons or push my buttons. But I think like, man, if my ma, every time I see something like that, I send it to my parents because I'm like, watch out for this.

• 1:25:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:41Speaker 02

  Because if I were like 20 years older, I probably would have clicked on that link.

• 1:25:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh, you ever got the physical mail, uh, spam?

• 1:25:49Speaker 02

  I get some.

• 1:25:50Anthony Pompliano?

  There's mail that's come to the office, uh, and it's like, you know, they've got a name of a business. They got the address, like all the stuff, and it's basically like, you know, some crazy claim, whether it's fraud alert or whatever, uh, but it's physical mails. I call this number. And so like before I call the number, you know, I always go and I'll like Google of the number and it'll just be like, this number is associated with scams, phishing attempts. Like, what are you like, all right, fuck you guys. But like, yeah, a hundred percent people are calling that number.

• 1:26:18Speaker 02

  Well, a lot of times it's like, guess what happens when you register a business? When you register a business, that number is found somewhere in some database. And so all these, uh, all these companies are like, oh, if we can send physical mail that mimics the look of government mail, people think they need to pay us money. And we don't need to get that many of them to pay us money. So if we just say, oh, you know, you make it seem really official. And then, you know, maybe one person out of 30 sends a $50, $75 check. It's like, that's actually a pretty effective mail marketing campaign.

• 1:26:51Anthony Pompliano?

  That is exactly what happens.

• 1:26:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? And whether it's fraud or it's just like, you owe us.

• 1:26:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:56Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't know how that's legal, but they definitely send that mail.

• 1:26:59Speaker 02

  Right. And the more sophisticated ones, you're probably seeing these now. I just, I just started getting them like a year ago is, um, people writing letters that look like handwritten letters, but they're not, right? And they're like house offers or something like that. It's like, this is, nope, that's a printer. It looks a lot like you hand wrote that, but it's not. But that's going to, that's going to increase your open rate. I understand exactly why you're doing that. And that's why everybody needs to learn marketing. Because if you learn how marketing works, you learn how like all of these scams.

• 1:27:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Not to get marketed to.

• 1:27:31Speaker 02

  You learn how politics works. You learn how like all these scams work. You learn how the education system works. It's just like learn marketing and it tells you a lot of things.

• 1:27:40Anthony Pompliano?

  The last, uh, question that I have for you, uh, future presidents of the United States, do you have any wild predictions as to who could become the president?

• 1:27:47Speaker 02

  I think I mentioned to you that I think that in probably five, 10, 20 years, the best viable candidates are going to be comedians. And the reason being is, you know, by 2030, anybody who has a public enough image to become elected president will have hundreds, thousands of hours of content out there on the internet in which he or she almost certainly said, one, two, three, four, 10 cancelable things. Right? Well, how do you overcome being canceled? It's like, well, if you're funnier than the people trying to cancel you, they can't cancel you. Like, it's just not gonna work. And so-

• 1:28:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Did you see Matt Walsh?

• 1:28:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:28:29Anthony Pompliano?

  That video, I'm shocked that video didn't get more play on the internet.

• 1:28:33Speaker 02

  Probably got throttled.

• 1:28:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Huh?

• 1:28:34Speaker 02

  Probably got throttled.

• 1:28:36Anthony Pompliano?

  You said it, not me. But yeah, for those that don't know, he basically, he had a whole, he basically raised the issue around a bunch of the child gender stuff or whatever. Put aside what the issue was, but the mob came for him.

• 1:28:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:51Anthony Pompliano?

  And he made a video, and I remember I was scrolling, and when I saw the video, I was like, oh, they got him. Like, here comes the apology. And I saw a comment, and it was like, this is how it's done. And I was like, oh, God. And I click on it, and of course, he's just standing, and he's, I will not apologize. I will not. I was like, oh, okay.

• 1:29:10Speaker 02

  Because this is not an apology video. This is like, the middle finger to the online mob video. And I was like, wow. They just actually, in some weird way, he just became stronger on the internet by not bending the knee or kind of, you know, falling to their calls. And I noticed this around the 2008 financial crisis, when a bunch of banking executives who clearly did stuff wrong, when they would go in and testify to Congress, it's like, oh, they, none of them are admitting any of the obvious things that they did wrong. I mean, maybe the most obvious, the like, extremely, extremely obvious things they'll admit, but the simply very obvious things, they will never apologize. And I started paying attention

• 1:29:55Speaker 02

  to how like, leaders function. I started realizing, like, oh, I'm watching all these presidents, watching all these politicians, watching all these business executives, watching them make mistakes, and then also watching them- Never apologize for any of the mistakes that they make. And these are all very competitive industries. So if apologizing were effective, you would think that some of the leaders would do it, but none of them do. Oh, that's probably because apologizing puts you in a worse position. And it's probably just more profitable, or you can be more successful if you just never apologize for something, even if you're wrong. Except in extreme, extreme, extreme outlier events. And I think that's, you know, I'm not, I'm not saying Matt Walsh is wrong.

• 1:30:34Speaker 02

  I'm just saying the approach he would take would be probably the correct approach, whether you're right or you're wrong.

• 1:30:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. My two predictions for president, The Rock and Kim Kardashian, both of them are going to be president.

• 1:30:48Speaker 02

  What about Portnoy?

• 1:30:49Anthony Pompliano?

  No.

• 1:30:50Speaker 02

  You don't think he's got it?

• 1:30:51Anthony Pompliano?

  No, it's not whether he has it or not, he wouldn't do it.

• 1:30:54Speaker 02

  He wouldn't do it.

• 1:30:54Anthony Pompliano?

  I, I, I think he likes his life too much.

• 1:30:56Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:30:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? Like, uh, the, the problem is you have to take one of two approaches. You either have to really, really, really understand the like Hollywood, like that whole game. Which The Rock, there's nobody better in the world. He's the most recognizable person, you know, globally, all this stuff. Or two is you have to have like decades of experience of understanding how to leverage the attention into like true business, you know, type things. I think Dave's probably, I don't know, top five on the internet, like, you know, I don't know if you saw it yesterday. He literally tweeted and he was like, yo, Elon, are you gonna fix these fucking bots on your shitty platform? Right? I was like, that's like a Hall of Fame internet move.

• 1:31:39Anthony Pompliano?

  Like you, like only Hall of Famers know right time, right place, tag them like bam, we're off to the races, right? So like, that's like the internet game, but I think we on the internet forget like The Rock is, he goes to other countries and is like mobbed.

• 1:31:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:31:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Most people we know on the internet, if they go to, you know, China, people are like on the, like, they don't even realize that's a person they should like care about, right?

• 1:32:05Speaker 02

  If they're white, they'll mob them because they find white people not interesting.

• 1:32:08Anthony Pompliano?

  But like, but if you look at like a Kim Kardashian, the other thing with her, and people get all worked up about this, but sex tape, reality TV star, entrepreneur, criminal justice reform.

• 1:32:20Anthony Pompliano?

  The next jump here is like you try to run for a congress seat, a governorship, like there's something in the political realm and you're a stone's throw.

• 1:32:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. If you want to be public facing, but if they want to have influence, they can also influence behind the scenes, but they probably want to be public facing.

• 1:32:38Anthony Pompliano?

  What's their business?

• 1:32:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? And Kris Jenner is like, yo, my daughter became president, you know what we could do?

• 1:32:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:47Anthony Pompliano?

  There seems to be other families that are profiting a lot from the administration seat.

• 1:32:52Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:32:52Anthony Pompliano?

  On both sides of the aisle.

• 1:32:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:54Anthony Pompliano?

  We'll leave it there. All right. Alex Feinberg one on Twitter and Instagram. I appreciate you coming. We'll definitely do it again in the future.

• 1:33:00Speaker 02

  This is awesome, man. Thank you.

• 1:33:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you enjoyed this one. Make sure you're subscribed on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to transition into a brand new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to thecryptoacademy.io. My team and I have been working with the top HR teams in the industry to develop an intensive three-week training program with over 50 live events. We teach you exactly what you need to know to break into the industry, including live interview prep and resume review. Our students have been hired at over 75 of the world's best Bitcoin and crypto companies. Go to thecryptoacademy.io to learn more. Again, that's thecryptoacademy.io. If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you share it with your friends and I'll see you all for the next episode.