Jane Goodall: A Lasting Legacy

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Dr. Jane Goodall. Jane opens up about following what seemed like an impossible dream, dealing with early objectification, and how she ultimately paved the way forward for women in science. She also reveals how she finds hope in hard times, how to advocate for yourself, and why we should all get off our phones more. Enjoy!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 0:43Alex Cooper?

  I feel like the best gifts are always the ones that feel really personal, right? Like, anyone can buy you something nice, but when someone gives you a gift that is actually meaningful, you appreciate it so much more. And that's what I do love about Pandora. They have so many pieces that you can really just make your own, from festive charms to personalized engravings and jewelry that can represent the people and the moments that mean the most to you. So whether you're shopping for your partner or your mom, your best friend, you can find something that really is specific to them. Maybe it's a charm that makes you think of the trip that you guys took together once, or maybe it's an engraving for your anniversary, or just a piece that feels like them the second you see it.

• 1:28Alex Cooper?

  Pandora makes it so easy to give a gift that feels thoughtful and personal and makes every holiday moment even more meaningful and special. Because at the end of the day, the best gifts aren't just about the piece itself, but it's the intention and the story behind them. Say more this holiday season with Pandora. Shop now at pandora.net or visit your closest Pandora store. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Stouffer's. Let me tell you something. When I am hungry and I am trying to figure out what to eat, sometimes you can just actually become so, you're angry. You're like, I am busy, I'm hungry, I'm getting hangry, I'm getting angry. What can I eat? I need something hot and delicious

• 2:09Alex Cooper?

  and low maintenance. Well, introducing Stouffer's dinners are not only delicious, they're done in a flash. Serve up their classic lasagna, chicken pesto, or carbonara for two. Whatever you're craving, Stouffer's is your hot, delicious, easy meal fantasy. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. You can see all the delicious options at Stouffer's.com. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Ashley. Okay, so whenever I am picking new furniture for my house or redesigning a room, it is so important to me to make sure that it also is cohesive with the rest of my house and the vibe that I'm feeling. And I think filling your home with beautiful durable pieces

• 2:50Alex Cooper?

  from Ashley will help you create a backdrop for growing family's biggest memories, right? You want your home to feel cozy and you want it to feel like you. And thanks to features like stain resistant performance fabric, even the messiest memories will be easy to clean. So, visit your local store or head to ashley.com to find your style. Hello Daddy Gang, welcome back to another episode of Call Her Daddy. This week's guest is Jane Goodall. I am freaking out, okay? I am so excited for you to watch this episode. Jane has dedicated her life to science and has made groundbreaking discoveries. She is truly a trailblazer and has paved the way

• 3:32Alex Cooper?

  forward for generations of women. Before we get into this interview, I did want to take a moment to acknowledge that I think that this episode might be a little different than what you're used to on Call Her Daddy every week. I know a lot of you come here to get to know some of the biggest celebrities on a more intimate level. And it obviously doesn't hurt when they spill some tea, but sometimes I think it's good to switch it up and step away from the conversations that we're having on social media constantly 24/7.

• 4:06Alex Cooper?

  And so I wanted to sit down with someone who has spent their life truly connected to the real world. And that is why this conversation with Jane is genuinely so special. Dr. Jane Goodall is 91 years old, the oldest guest that we've had on Call Her Daddy, and the wisdom that she carries is unlike anything that I've ever experienced. Sitting across from her, I felt it. Her presence, her perspective, it was so grounding in a way that I didn't realize I even needed. And I want you to feel that too today. So, I suggest watching this episode alone, whether you are on a walk, you're at the gym, you're

• 4:49Alex Cooper?

  laying in bed, you're at your home, you're at work, whatever it be, I just ask that you give yourself the space to really absorb what she is saying, because I promise it's worth it. So, let's get into it.

• 5:17Alex Cooper?

  Dr. Jane Goodall, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  Hi, hello.

• 5:20Alex Cooper?

  How are you doing?

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Well, you know, this is, I'm in the middle of an American spring tour, and it's pretty exhausting, to be honest. Yesterday was super exhausting.

• 5:33Alex Cooper?

  Can you tell me a little bit about what you're doing?

• 5:35Speaker 01

  Well, what I'm doing is trying to help people understand that we're going through very dark times. And if we don't get together and start doing what each of us can to make the world a better place, you know, the future's very uncertain.

• 5:52Alex Cooper?

  That's why I'm really excited that you're here today, because I, you walk into a room and I can just feel your wisdom and the things that you have learned throughout your life. It's like an honor to even just get to sit down with you for an hour. I love how you're like, working so hard. And it's, isn't it your birthday tomorrow?

• 6:12Speaker 01

  It is my birthday tomorrow.

• 6:14Alex Cooper?

  Jane.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  It's another way of, you know, what, what do I have to do? What's the hardest thing I have to do? Is raise money for all the different projects.

• 6:23Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  You know, and people think, oh, Jane must be wealthy. She gives these lectures. She gets lots of money. Yes, but the money goes to our projects.

• 6:31Alex Cooper?

  Do you ever take time for yourself? Like, are you going to celebrate on your 91st birthday? What are we doing tomorrow, Jane?

• 6:38Speaker 01

  People like to celebrate my birthday the whole year, so I get all these birthdays and all these birthday cakes.

• 6:44Alex Cooper?

  I didn't bring you a cake today because I knew you always get cakes from people, so I brought you whiskey instead.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Oh, that's super.

• 6:52Alex Cooper?

  You, you like whiskey, right?

• 6:53Speaker 01

  Yes, well, you know, my mother, uh, she, she died when she was 98. And she was sharp to the end, although she had Parkinson's, but she couldn't, she just didn't drink water. She said it didn't agree with her. I don't like much water either. She couldn't drink wine. So her tipple was whiskey. So we, we made a thing that seven o'clock, wherever I was, I would raise a toast to her.

• 7:22Alex Cooper?

  That is so sweet. And I love that your mom was like, water doesn't agree with me. I'm more of a whiskey gal. What is your favorite kind of whiskey?

• 7:33Speaker 01

  Oh, I, not the very expensive malty ones. I hope you didn't get a very expensive.

• 7:39Alex Cooper?

  I got you one that's like, it's my favorite whiskey recently. It's this Japanese whiskey.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Oh, that's very good.

• 7:45Alex Cooper?

  You'll be taking it home today. Um, what did you do for your 90th birthday? That's a big one.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  That again was celebrated the whole year. The only thing I really, really liked was, uh, when I was greeted on the beach by 90 dogs.

• 8:03Alex Cooper?

  90 dogs.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  90 dogs.

• 8:07Alex Cooper?

  See, that's why I brought Henry today. I have not, I said to you, I said, I have not brought Henry in a while because you want to be respectful. You don't know when people are dog, people are not. And when I knew that you're a dog person immediately selfishly, I'm like, Henry needs to meet the great Jane. Like, I was like, you have to meet him and he needs to meet you. 90 dogs? Who facilitated that?

• 8:28Speaker 01

  90 dogs and it was in Carmel, Carmel on the Sea. It was a off-leash part of the beach. And everybody brought their dogs. And so I was throwing sticks in the sea and and then it began to rain and then it stopped raining. It was just amazing. It was wonderful.

• 8:46Alex Cooper?

  I like believe maybe that's like a part of what heaven feels like is just like you open your eyes and there's just dogs everywhere, happy, running free.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  And we've got a great photo of all the owners with their dogs and me sitting in front with the sea behind us. It's a great photo.

• 9:02Alex Cooper?

  I love it. You mentioned you travel 300 days a year for work. I, Jane, I get exhausted from a week of travel. Like, what is your secret? How do you do it?

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Well, I do it because I have to, you know, I've it probably sounds probably sounds strange to you, but I've now by now being, you know, 90, I feel that I was put on this planet with a mission. And right now, as I said, we're going through dark times. And the big problem is people are losing hope. Many people come up to me and say, well, I look around all that's going wrong in the world and I, I just feel helpless. And, you know, so I say, well, you can't solve the problems of the world, but what about where you live, your community? Is there something there? You feel you might like, you don't like litter on the, on the,

• 10:00Speaker 01

  on the pavement, or you don't like, they're planning to dig up a little forest to put yet another super mall. Go and do something about it.

• 10:11Alex Cooper?

  But you saying that you feel like you've been put on this earth with this mission, like, does it ever feel like too much of a burden to carry on your own? And how, as much as you put into it, if you're not getting out of it, like, do you ever become exhausted?

• 10:28Speaker 01

  Well, the thing is, you know, this mission keeps me going because there's so much to do. And if we lose hope, we're doomed. Because if you lose hope, you become apathetic and do nothing. But I'm not alone. You know, the Jane Goodall Institute is now in 25 countries, different chapters. And in addition, there's our program for young people, Roots and Tutes, which is humanitarian and environmental. And that's in 75 countries.

• 11:00Alex Cooper?

  Wow. How incredible that.

• 11:03Alex Cooper?

  You have left such a legacy that whether you were doing it or not doing it, it will now live on forever, hopefully.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  You said you have left. I'm not dead yet.

• 11:13Alex Cooper?

  No, I'm saying if you left, Jane, I mean, if you left and you decided like, it's time to retire. Like, I want to just go and relax on a beach somewhere. Like, if you decided to not do it, like, that is, I feel like, the test of a real legacy is knowing that it is going to just keep living on because you've, like, touched so many people.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  No, not yet. I mean, first of all, I can't retire, as long as, as long as I can, you know? And if I become physically disabled, if my brain works, I want to do more writing because I love writing.

• 11:46Alex Cooper?

  Your little friend sitting next to you, what is his name again?

• 11:49Speaker 01

  Mr. H.

• 11:51Alex Cooper?

  Mr. H. Okay, I need this story because I wanted to ask you, obviously, you've had such an incredible career, but for some of my younger audience who maybe are becoming fans of you today or are fans of you, can you talk about like how you got into what you do and what you love? And also, how does Mr. H. play into your story?

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Okay, well, let me, let me deal with Mr. H. first.

• 12:13Alex Cooper?

  Okay, let's get to it.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Then I can put him away.

• 12:15Alex Cooper?

  Perfect.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Mr. H. was given to me 34 years ago by a man who thought he was giving me a stuffed chimpanzee. His name is Gary Horn. He was blinded in the US Marines when he was 21. Anyway, he thought he was giving me a stuffed chimp, and I made him hold the tail. I said, Gary, chimps don't have tails. He said, never mind, take him with you, and you know my spirit's with you. So he's been with me to 64 countries, and he's extremely famous. And if you touch him, I say, if you stroke him, the inspiration rubs off. So you asked how I got into it.

• 12:55Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  Well, I was bored loving animals. And the most important thing in my young childhood is my mother, because she supported me. So when I was one and a half years old, I don't remember this, but she told me, she came into my room and found I'd taken a whole handful of wriggly earthworms to bed. And instead of getting angry like most mothers, because you know, she just said, she told me later, Jane, you are looking so intently. I think maybe you were wondering how they walk without legs. So we took them back into the earth. Anyway, the point of that is that was the making of a little scientist,

• 13:38Speaker 01

  asking questions, not getting the answer, deciding to find out for yourself, making a mistake, not giving up and learning patience. And a different mother might have crushed that early curiosity. And I might not be talking to you now.

• 13:56Alex Cooper?

  I feel like there's so many people that could be listening that envy that, right? Because so much of when you're young, you're able to flourish based off of the environment that you grow up in. And there's a lot of kids that dream of things. And maybe it's cute when they're young, but as they start to get old, then the adults are like, that's not realistic. You can't make a career out of that, right?

• 14:21Speaker 01

  That's exactly right.

• 14:23Alex Cooper?

  When you told people that your dream in life was to go to Africa and to research, what was their reaction?

• 14:48Alex Cooper?

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• 15:32Alex Cooper?

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• 16:16Alex Cooper?

  can just actually become so. You're angry. You're like, I am busy. I'm hungry. I'm getting hangry. I'm getting angry. What can I eat? I need something hot and delicious and low maintenance. Well, introducing Stouffer's dinners are not only delicious, they're done in a flash. Serve up their classic lasagna, chicken pesto, or carbonara for two. Whatever you're craving, Stouffer's is your hot, delicious, easy meal fantasy. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. You can see all the delicious options at Stouffer's.com. When you told people that your dream in life was to go to Africa and to research, what was their reaction?

• 16:59Speaker 01

  We have to remember to start with, I grew up in the war, started when I was five. And you know, we didn't have much money. My father went off to join the army and we went to live with my grandmother. It was a house of women and me and my sister, my mother and her two sisters and my grandmother. And because there was no television back then hadn't been invented, which young, you probably find it hard to imagine, don't you?

• 17:29Alex Cooper?

  I find it hard, but I feel like I talked so much to my grandmother about her life because I'm just naturally want to know about people's life experiences. So if anything, I think there's a part now where we envy that. And I know that probably sounds weird. We're like, I envy. The older generations having a much more like simplistic lifestyle because I do think it's kind of like corroding our brains in a capacity.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  No doubt.

• 17:57Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  But anyway, you know, so I learned from being outside with nature, watching the squirrels and the birds garden in England and from books. I love books. And do you know Dr. Dolittle?

• 18:11Alex Cooper?

  Yes, of course.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Well, I found the book of Dr. Dolittle when I was eight, came from the library. And then I used to save up just a few pennies of pocket money. My sister bought sweets with them. I saved them and I found a little secondhand bookshop. And on, I was 10 years old and I found this tiny, cheap edition of Tarzan of the Apes. Well, you know, no, no TV Tarzan, no film, just the book. So I fell in love with this glorious lord of the jungle. And what did Tarzan do? He married the wrong Jane.

• 18:49Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  So anyway, I knew there wasn't a Tarzan. That's when my dream began. I will grow up, go to Africa, live with wild animals and write books. No thought of being a scientist. No thought of, you know, and everybody said, that's ridiculous. I mean, you don't have money. Africa's far away and you're just a girl. Not my mom. She said, if you really want to do something like this, you're going to have to work really hard, take advantage of every opportunity. And if you don't give up, hopefully you find a way. And that's the message I take around the world, particularly in disadvantaged communities. And I wish mom

• 19:31Speaker 01

  was alive and maybe she's listening. The number of people who said, Jane, I want to thank you. You've taught me because you did it. I can do it too.

• 19:43Alex Cooper?

  I'm curious if you saw, because it's incredible, the way you're speaking about your mom and how impactful she was in giving you this confidence to go forward with your dream. Did you see your mom?

• 19:58Alex Cooper?

  Living her life the way that she encouraged you to do it? Cause I feel like sometimes with generations, it's like they didn't get to do certain things. So then they're like with their kids or like go and do it and do it all. I wish I could have like, was your mom someone that got to live out her dreams?

• 20:13Speaker 01

  Well, unfortunately, you know, she had two sisters and a brother. Um, she was the third. So the brother went on to be a surgeon, a brilliant surgeon. And, um, her older sister was the first person to be qualified, first, first girl to be qualified as a physiotherapist. And mom was also going to college to do music. But the war came and her father died. And sorry, not the war, it was her father dying. And then there was no money left, so she couldn't go to college. So she became a secretary.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  So she had a good life, but not the life that she probably would have dreamed of. So I was lucky.

• 21:02Alex Cooper?

  I

• 21:02Speaker 01

  My, my dream came true.

• 21:05Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. And I'm sure there was something, I mean, I'm not a mother, but from what I can understand and talking to so many women who have children, like there is something innately in you that you want your child to have a better life than you have even more experiences and more opportunities. And it's just, I think it's beautiful to hear the way that you speak about your mother and how much she was willing to sacrifice in her life to make sure that you got what you needed.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Parents, parents need to be supportive. You know, okay, so you're a little boy of three. I'm going to be an engine driver. Oh, don't be silly. You're not going to, why not say, wow, you'll be a fabulous engine driver of the best engine driver, because you know, they won't be an engine driver. But make them feel good.

• 21:51Alex Cooper?

  But I bet that's what your mom in her brain were like, oh, there's no way Jane's actually going to go to Africa. There's no way she's at, and then you did it all. How often do you think in your career were you?

• 22:04Alex Cooper?

  Prejudged for being a woman and the way that you looked and then slowly you were able to garner the respect because of the work you were putting in.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Well, I think I was kind of lucky because it wasn't a male dominated field because there weren't, nobody really was going out at that time. Now, of course, everybody is studying. And back then, there were two primate studies and a giraffe study. Most studies were in captivity. And so, everybody, you know, it was, it wasn't like it is today.

• 22:40Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  And I was really lucky. I had the whole field. I mean, nobody had studied chimps in the wild.

• 22:47Alex Cooper?

  But studying chimps in the wild, like, I need to understand from your perspective, you weren't going into a lab, you're going into the wilderness, you're going to be surrounded by animals. At the time, you had no formal training. Like, were you scared at all or did you have any hesitations?

• 23:12Speaker 01

  No, I wasn't scared. It was my dream, remember. And there were, there were two problems. First, money, always money. Because, I mean, as you say, I wasn't trained, hadn't been to college, but finally got money for six months from an American philanthropist. And second, the, it was Tanganyika back then, Tanzania today. And the British authorities said, we won't take responsibility. This is a stupid idea. Young girl going in the forest. In the end, they said, oh, all right, but she can't come alone. That was when my amazing mother volunteered to come.

• 23:52Alex Cooper?

  That's incredible.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  And we, you know, our expedition was a shoestring. We had one old secondhand tent between us. We had to take her cook. And we had scant supplies, but I was, you know, up in the hills every day.

• 24:13Alex Cooper?

  You were 26 years old. Like, that is so.

• 24:18Alex Cooper?

  Incredible to know that you basically took a pretty untraditional trajectory with your life and you took a risk and you went for something that you know you were passionate about. Could you give any of my listeners, we have a lot of young women listening who maybe they're thinking right now of like, should I take a risk, whether it's with their career or their life trajectory, whatever it be? Like, do you have any advice in taking risks as a young adult?

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Well, I can only think of the advice my mother gave me. You know, if you want to do something, work hard and take advantage of opportunity. The key thing is you've got to know you really want to do it. So today, you know, people take gap years and that's really good because you can find out, is this really what I want to spend my life doing? And also I meet young people and they're perhaps in their second year at university and they say, well, you know, I actually made a mistake, but I can't change now. Well, that's the biggest mistake because if this is going to be the rest of your life, change

• 25:29Speaker 01

  now while you can into a different, you know, different career path.

• 25:36Alex Cooper?

  It's such a great lesson because I feel, I feel like there's two types of people growing up. Either there's the person similar to yourself where you have this unwavering, undying love for something that you just know innately in your soul. Like I have been called to do this. I want to do this. And then there are people who are a little lost or confused and that is also a very normal path and they have to find what they love and they have to find what they're passionate about. And I think a lot of times people in that category find themselves just trying to do things that other people are doing around them because, oh, well, my friend's doing this. Maybe I will do it. And it's

• 26:16Alex Cooper?

  hard to just originally find what makes you happy. So I love that advice of like, if you genuinely to your core know that this isn't what you want, well, first you need to just try it to know you don't want it and to go for it first. And then if you hate it.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  And you know, there's another thing that some women really want to be homemakers. And yet, it's getting so that they're despised. You want to stay at home and you want to cook and you want to look after your children. Instead of being out there, having a career and, you know, standing up shoulder to shoulder with your male counterparts. But that's wrong too. Because if, if, if that makes you really happy, then, but your, your children will be happy. Your husband, if you have one, or your boyfriend, or whoever, probably will be happy. And happiness is so important. It's the king of Bhutan who made this happiness index.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  And it's fascinating to see, you know, that getting more and more money and more and more fame and more and more, you know, doesn't necessarily make people happy.

• 27:27Alex Cooper?

  I think that's a very important topic that you just brought up that I think would be very helpful for people listening also about feeling like, you know, being a stay-at-home mom in a beautiful way. I think there's a lot of women who are now trailblazing in specific industries. And that's obviously such an incredible accomplishment that women are even allowed to sit next to men in rooms now. But I also think that there is no doubt that being a mother is a full-time job. And to not acknowledge the women who are fulfilled by that is also putting women down in a different capacity.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  It is in a different way.

• 28:09Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  And you know, if we go back to the child, if the most important thing for the child is to be supported by two, three, four people who are consistently there, it doesn't have to be the biological mother. So I met the chief of a Latin American indigenous tribe. And he said to me, he said, Jane, we see our tribe as like an eagle. One wing is male, the other wing is female, and only when they're equal will the tribe fly high.

• 28:47Alex Cooper?

  Jane, I just want to pause. I'm like, I wish everyone could hear that. That's incredible. And yet so many people don't believe that.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  No, they don't. And you know, thing is, there are female characteristics and male characteristics. We all have both.

• 29:05Alex Cooper?

  Yep.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  But basically, we need both. We need the the sort of more dominating male characteristics to stand up to things in life that might knock us down. But we need the more nurturing role of the woman. We need both.

• 29:25Alex Cooper?

  We do. And I feel like especially in the like, social and political climate right now, the brute is is being rewarded. And people think that being tough and masculine and aggressive is the way to always go. And we always see the pendulum swing. Like, once we've had enough of that, then we will go back to the nurturing. And if we were able to establish a more like coexisting life, then both things could be present at the same time. But I feel like we're going so far to one side, that then we almost feel like we have to overcorrect and go to the other. And it's exhausting.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  But you know, it's so sad. I've lived long enough to see this pendulum swing, moving towards, oh, we need more males, we need, oh, in this society, we need to have, you know, masculine society to deal with what we're going through. That's not right.

• 30:22Alex Cooper?

  It's not. And I can't imagine the feeling it evokes in you to have watched women start to garner more rights, only for it to almost be taken away to the point that we're losing more than previous generations for us. Something I was thinking about with your career also is, you know, you talked about how there was no one really, it wasn't even a male dominated field. It wasn't a field. And so you were venturing into this.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  Unknown territory.

• 30:54Alex Cooper?

  Yes, yes. Which is exciting and exhilarating. But I'm curious about the aspect of isolation. Like, in any.

• 31:05Alex Cooper?

  Form and time during your career where you're experiencing being alone in these pretty intense moments, like, did you feel lonely? Or were you just alone?

• 31:16Speaker 01

  No, I've never felt lonely. And some of the happiest days of my life, I did eventually get a degree in Cambridge. And then I went back to Gombe, you know, the chimp study. And I could spend hours and hours alone in the rainforest, learning, yes, more about the chimpanzees, but also about this complex ecosystem where every plant and animal has a role to play and they're all interdependent. And what I discovered was that if you're out in a beautiful place with someone, someone

• 31:56Speaker 01

  you love, or, you know, your family or something, then it's human beings in a beautiful environment. But when I was alone, there was, I wasn't, it was just, I was part of that world, not separated from it by being a human in that world. It's hard to explain, and it didn't happen that often, but when it did, it was, it was a very, basically spiritual experience.

• 32:26Alex Cooper?

  Understandably, I'll never probably understand, like, the level that you're describing of being immersed in that world and being alone. But I think we can all relate on some level of, if you do go watch a sunset by yourself, and you're sitting in a canyon or your backyard and you're alone, and when you do things solo, there is like a deeper connection that you have. If you take a walk on the beach and there's no one there, if you're in water and you're alone, like, there is, being alone is, has so much power because you're really forced to also, like, connect with all of your senses. But it's so rare, I believe, that the recent generations are doing that because they've always got the phone and they have-

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Oh, yes.

• 33:12Alex Cooper?

  Yes, oh, yes, that thing, Jane, that thing. Could you give any advice on how can young adults get more comfortable with being alone?

• 33:25Speaker 01

  I mean, are you alone if you're always on Facebook or Instagram or video games? Are you really alone?

• 33:33Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  Not really.

• 33:34Alex Cooper?

  No, because I think something that I envy, honestly, and I'm sure there are going to be people listening to this, that it's almost like it can make people emotional is like the way that you talk about this like genuine happiness and this connectivity you felt in your life to being at a place in time where you were so immersed in a world and completely disconnected from humanity and all those things that really bring just more crap to our lives in moments. Yes, it's beautiful to connect with humans, but we rarely are alone. I feel like there's a lot of young kids that feel like they're alone and they're laying in their bed.

• 34:16Alex Cooper?

  But then they're scrolling and they're watching other people. And so they're just observing what other human beings are doing and what other people are feeling and talking about. And you're just not actually having to self reflect in any capacity. You're actually just like consuming an exorbitant amount of content that is then like shaping the next hour of your life. And then you're standing up and you feel depressed. And you're curious as to why you don't feel fulfilled. And it's like, because you just watched everyone else living? And you just sat and consumed it for hours. Now go live your life. And I think that's what's so incredible about your story and your journey is how much you went and have lived and experienced and you love life. Can you

• 35:01Alex Cooper?

  share with me the moment that you obviously had this incredibly huge breakthrough discovery when you observed a chimpanzee using tools in the wild? What does that moment mean to you still to this day?

• 35:34Alex Cooper?

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• 36:19Alex Cooper?

  SoFi, get your money right. This is a paid advertisement by SoFi Technologies and is not intended to be financial advice. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Ritual. We are learning so much about how the gut microbiome is key to our mental health, immunity, and of course digestion. And I just feel like I didn't know any of this until recently, which is a problem because this is literally everything that we do need to know to take care of ourselves. But did you know, because now I know, the gut microbiome shifts during pregnancy, ladies? And these shifts can impact mom and baby's health in pregnancy and postpartum. And that is why Ritual created Nadel Biotic, a specialized biotic with clinically studied strains

• 37:02Alex Cooper?

  for pregnancy and postpartum microbiome support to support digestive health, mood, vaginal health, and baby's immune health. I have been trying so hard to take care of myself during this pregnancy, and I think something that has been very... Helpful is actually learning about the things that now I will carry, not only just during this pregnancy, but I will continue to take care of myself in a way that I really never have before. I think sometimes as women, we don't have the tools or we don't know what we're supposed to be doing. And so we sometimes just freeze and we don't do anything. And since having Ritual in my life, it has been so nice to have this daily ritual where I'm actually taking care of myself and my baby, which feels great. So whether you're pregnant, postpartum, or looking for everyday trusted daily gut support, get clinically

• 37:47Alex Cooper?

  studied biotics to support your gut health with Ritual. My listeners can save 25% off their first month at ritual.com/callherdaddy. That's ritual.com/callherdaddy for 25% off your first month. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. You obviously had this incredibly huge breakthrough discovery when you observed a chimpanzee using tools in the wild. What does that moment mean to you still to this day?

• 38:24Speaker 01

  Well, it was, you know, for the first four of my six months' money, the chimps ran away. I mean, they just vanished into the forest. And I just had to learn from a distance with binoculars. And then one chimpanzee began to lose his fear. And let me get a bit closer. And he had beautiful white hair on his chin. I called him David Graybeard. And on this day, I was walking through the forest and I saw him sitting on a termite mound. So he was pulling out this with termites hanging on and eating them. And sometimes he was picking leafy twigs, then he had to strip the leaves to make

• 39:08Speaker 01

  a tool. And the reason this was so exciting is that at that time, it was thought by Western science that only humans used and made tools. We were defined as man, of course, man, the toolmaker. And so when I wrote to my mentor, Lewis Leakey, he was just so excited.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  And so as we're defined as man, the toolmaker, he said, we must redefine tool, redefine man, or accept chimpanzees as humans. And that was when the National Geographic stepped in and said, well, Jane's money runs out, we'll continue to support her. And so then I could relax. And really, I got to know those chimpanzees almost like members of my family.

• 39:58Alex Cooper?

  You have had so many moments in your career where you've had to walk into rooms and explain something that maybe people had never heard before, where you're like, no, trust me, I saw it, this is what happened. And I think a lot of that takes, yes, having the truth on your side, but confidence to be able to walk into a room and do that. Like, do you have advice for women listening of how they can advocate for themselves in an intimidating work situation?

• 40:34Speaker 01

  Well, I've been intimidated, don't worry. The first time I had to give a lecture, I thought I would die. And for the first, I know, it seemed forever I couldn't even breathe, but nobody noticed. And so basically, because I was so terrified of speaking in public, I practiced and I made a vow. I will never read a speech and I won't say um and uh. And if you listen, you find I very seldom the odd um, but basically, I don't. And so my advice to people is, you know, be sure of what you're going to say. And if necessary, practice.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Like before every lecture, even if I've given the same one. The previous week, I always write down the point. So it's my mind is totally focused. And always remember, you've given this speech before, but now you're talking to people who haven't heard it. So you've got to put the same enthusiasm.

• 41:38Alex Cooper?

  Like, I think there's a lot of people that are crippled with that anxiety of like, I can't, I can't, I can't. Like, where do you internally go when you need to push through in moments?

• 41:47Speaker 01

  Well, I don't really know that first time. I did it because I had to do it. Geographic, it was for the National Geographic. It was to 5,000 people.

• 41:59Alex Cooper?

  Okay, Dane.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  And if I didn't, you know, the geographic were paying for my field research. I had some students by then, and I had to do it. So you do what you have to do, right? So I knew I had to do it. I practiced, I, and I just felt I can't let, I can't let Leaky down. I can't let the geographic down. So you just grit your teeth. And it's a bit like going to the dentist. You don't really look forward to it, but you have to do it.

• 42:35Alex Cooper?

  But you go.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  And say to yourself, you know, I'll be really brave and it will be over.

• 42:41Alex Cooper?

  That's so real, though, because then once it's over, you're like, oh, that wasn't as bad as I thought it was gonna be.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Well, I found I could do it, you see.

• 42:49Alex Cooper?

  Can we talk about the National Geographic? You were on the cover. And the first cover you had, there was this intense focus. First, well, it was obviously supposed to be about the work and your research, but there was an intense focus around you and how you looked and your body. What types of comments were people making about you?

• 43:13Speaker 01

  Well, some of the jealous male scientists will say, well, you know, she's just got this notoriety and she's getting money from geographic and they want her on the cover. And they wouldn't put her on the cover if she didn't have nice legs. So if somebody said that today, they'd be sued, right? Back then, all I wanted was to get back to the chimps. So if my legs were getting me the money, thank you, legs. And if you look at those covers, they were jolly nice legs.

• 43:45Alex Cooper?

  Oh my gosh, it's so typical though, right? Like, try to discredit a woman because, well, she got there because of what she was wearing and her looks and blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, it's, it's actually like the most obvious weakest response to something. How do you think women can flip the script and use the way that people sexualize us and objectify us to our advantage?

• 44:16Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know, I did it by accepting that in a way they were right. So, thank you, thank you for giving me this advantage if that's good to give me the money. But, you know, I, okay, I know that for me, it was a long time ago. It was a different era. It wouldn't, it wouldn't work today. So, all I can think of is, I don't know, I mean, you'd be better to give advice. What advice would you give?

• 44:45Alex Cooper?

  I mean, it's hard because I think there's a line of like, how far you lean in to how much people sexualize us as women. And I think that there's going to innately be moments where you, someone says something inappropriate to you at work, or a man is trying to discredit you because your work can't be that good. It's because you're hot and because people are giving you the position because of the way you look. I think a lot of it in what we're talking about, and it's kind of the theme of this episode, actually just comes back to like, how are you internally good with yourself? And do you know your worth? Do you know your value? And are you capable of standing in a room and as uncomfortable as comments can be,

• 45:30Alex Cooper?

  you leave and you don't feel like those knocked you down? If anything, you're able to take it, recognize the game that they're playing, but keep it moving because you're confident in what you bring to the table. And yeah, you may also be very attractive and that's okay.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  That's another gift.

• 45:50Alex Cooper?

  There we go, Jane, it's a gift.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  I've always got on super well with men. And nowadays, they say, we're doing a photo and they say, can I, can I touch you? And I'm thinking, yeah, I say hug me if you like.

• 46:08Alex Cooper?

  Like, give me a hug.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Mind you, women want to hug me too. That's fine. Anybody can hug me. I need hugs.

• 46:15Alex Cooper?

  Okay, I'll give you a hug after this.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 46:17Alex Cooper?

  Can we talk a little bit about relationships? You ended up marrying a photographer from National Geographic. Can you tell me the story of how you two met?

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Well, after, after I was finding out exciting things about the chimps and they were getting habituated to humans. The geographic, obviously, you know, that's they live on it. They wanted to make a film and they wanted good photographs. So they sent Hugo van Laeuwijk. And I really didn't want him to come. I hadn't met him because I, I just wanted to be there with the chimps, you know? I didn't want anybody. And I was afraid they'd be scared of him. And, you know, all my hard work would be undone. But as it was, he came, he loved animals. He'd always wanted to be out there with them. His route was photography.

• 47:13Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  And we got on fine. And he, you know, it was thanks to his photos and film that everything I was saying about the chimps was corroborated. And so he really, really helped to, to share the knowledge that chimpanzees really are like us. They really do have gestures and postures the same as ours that mean the same thing.

• 47:42Alex Cooper?

  I know that you kind of have said previously that you and your husband at the time drifted apart because your careers were moving in different directions. And I'm curious, like,

• 47:55Alex Cooper?

  how did you navigate? Because it's a very relatable topic, like navigating deciding between work and relationships. Like, how did you do that?

• 48:05Speaker 01

  Well, it ended gradually and it ended because the geographic stopped paying Hugo to come to Gombe.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  He had to go on with his career and he got some money to do films on Serengeti. And I couldn't leave Gombe. I had to stay. I mean, I was totally, you know, I couldn't leave Gombe. And so it slowly drifted apart and was sad. And I think we did the right thing. But we kind of had to do it. You know, I definitely wish we could have carried on with that marriage because it was a good one.

• 49:01Alex Cooper?

  Daddy gang, did you know the average person has to send out 51 resumes just to try to land a job? It is insane and it's a lot of work, but honestly, I believe that, right? I remember when I got my first job out of college, I literally spent months applying and applying and applying and then applying. And the worst part is you can spend all this time finding the right role, fixing your resume, writing the application, and then you might not even hear back, right? And it is so frustrating because you're like, okay, I know I would be so great for this job, but how do I actually get them to even notice me? That is where ZipRecruiter comes in, my friends. Okay?

• 49:45Alex Cooper?

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• 50:28Alex Cooper?

  Let me tell you something. When I am hungry and I am trying to figure out what to eat, sometimes you can just actually become so, you're angry. You're like, I am busy, I'm hungry, I'm getting hangry, I'm getting angry. What can I eat? I need something hot and delicious and low maintenance. Well, introducing Stouffer's dinners are not only delicious, they're done in a flash. Serve up their classic lasagna, chicken pesto, or carbonara for two. Whatever you're craving, Stouffer's is your hot, delicious, easy meal fantasy. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. You can see all the delicious options at Stouffer's.com.

• 51:06Alex Cooper?

  What do you think is your favorite part of aging and getting older as a woman?

• 51:12Speaker 01

  I don't think there's a favorite part of aging, quite honestly. But I suppose, okay, if you look at it philosophically, the longer you live, the more you learn. And I don't like a day that I don't learn something, even a little thing. And the other thing is, you know, when you get older, you, you learn, well, I do, you learn more about what's going on in the rest of the world and how to interact with people. And basically, it'd be nice if you didn't get old.

• 51:47Alex Cooper?

  It would be nice, Jane. We talked a little bit about earlier in the episode when we were talking just about how you really talk so much about hope and how important it is to have hope. And I think a lot of my listeners feel anxious and lost right now because of what is happening in the world. Like, do you have any message of how to stay hopeful?

• 52:14Speaker 01

  Yes, I do. That's my job now.

• 52:16Alex Cooper?

  Okay, tell us, Jane.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  It's my actual job. So, you know, I have my reasons for hope. Number one, I mentioned, it's the young people. So, this Roots and Toots program began in 1991 with 12 high school students in Tanzania. It's now got members from kindergarten

• 52:37Speaker 01

  Very strong in university, everything in between. More and more young adults are forming groups. We even get groups in old people's homes. So it's broadened out and it's different from other programs. Because, because of learning, everything's interrelated. Every group chooses, well, the little ones can't choose, but, you know, once you get to middle school, they choose a project to help people, a project to help animals, a project to help the environment, and they share this with each other. And once they roll up their sleeves, they work very hard because they chose the project and they're making a difference.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  They, you know, they're planting trees, they're picking up trash, they're raising money to help refugees, they're volunteering in, in soup kitchens or animal shelters. And the main message of Roots and Shoots, which is for everybody. Every day you live, you make an impact on the planet and you have to choose what sort of impact you make. So all around the world now, in 75 countries, young people are changing the world. And once they know the problems, and that's important, but then you empower them to take action in ways that they choose.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  They just, they're just, I mean, I go around visiting them and they're so full of enthusiasm and, you know, so yes, we've got to create a world where their hope is viable. Next reason for hope is this extraordinary intellect that we have. And note, I don't call it intelligence because if we were intelligent, we would not be destroying our home, our only home. And sadly, we haven't always used our intellect wisely. We've forgotten the indigenous wisdom of saying, how does this decision affect generations in the future? Where, how does it affect me now, my family now, my next political campaign, the next

• 54:45Speaker 01

  shareholder meeting? We've gone into a materialistic, very often greedy...

• 54:51Speaker 01

  Society and we need to change, but this intellect is beginning to tell us what we need to do, how to do it, creating, you know, like alternative energy, for example.

• 55:05Alex Cooper?

  I am so honored that I got to sit down with you today. You and the way that you look at life is so inspiring. And I think I will admit, like, I'm a businesswoman running around all day and I have meetings and I'm trying to do all these things. And it is very humbling, honestly, to sit with someone like you who has such the right understanding of what we should be prioritizing in life. And of course, everyone has different priorities of what will make them happy. But we have gotten so materialistic and we have gotten selfish and we have lost our way. And understandably, it's difficult because if

• 55:49Alex Cooper?

  you're a young woman sitting at home watching this right now, like, do you have that? It doesn't feel like there's much you can do. And I think today, it's such a perfect example of like, but you can get involved and you can do something because something that stuck with me is like, these are people who are so happy. And why are they happy? Because they're doing something good and they're giving back. We all know how it feels on the most vain level to like, give a gift to someone. It's always better to give than receive because you're like, oh, my gosh, I feel that feeling can ignite something in future generations of coming together and making a difference. Because it is going to impact my children and then the next generation of children and so forth. So, thank you so

• 56:31Alex Cooper?

  much for taking your time today. I know you were very busy and I'm just honored that I got to sit down with you, Jane. Thank you so much.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  I've had a great time talking to you and meeting Henry. Let's make Henry come and say goodbye. Where is he? Henry? Henry, Henry? There he is. Yes. Come and say goodbye. Come and say hi, Henry. Come and say goodbye. Yes. It's been so nice. I'm with you.

• 56:57Alex Cooper?

  Oh, good boy. Good boy.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  Yes. Bye bye, Henry.

• 57:01Alex Cooper?

  Goodbye, Jane. Yes. Good boy, Henry. We did it.

• 57:21Alex Cooper?

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• 58:48Alex Cooper?

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• 59:30Alex Cooper?

  they're done in a flash. Serve up their classic lasagna, chicken pesto, or carbonara for two. Whatever you're craving, Stouffer's is your hot, delicious, easy meal fantasy. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. You can see all the delicious options at Stouffer's.com.